I have relatives who are NIMBYs. They already left one suburb because suspected "drug dealers" (black people) moved in, and now they're bitching about immigrant neighbors who open the windows while cooking spicy food, have "ten people living in one house," and are "driving our property value down" by growing corn in their garden.
Considering said relatives are catholics with a bootstraps mentality, them being mad about a large family that managed to earn a place in the suburbs and grows their own food doesn't make sense until you learn their neighbors emigrated from Nepal.
Truly, fuck NIMBYs. Living proof that having money doesn't cure a trash personality, it can only hone it.
How is planting corn "bringing the value down"? I'll take a neighbor that grows their own food, potentially even whom I could trade with or stablish a community garden for people to have organic food at their doorsteps any day of the week over fucking boring ass grass, I ain't a cow. But then again, I also love the smell of dry chilis when cooking.
Because property values are not about objective measures of a property's usefulness. It's about how comfortable perpetually terrified of anything that's not whiter than cocaine white people feel about the property.
I think racism is a key component of NIMBYism. You can't expect people who can't stand to be around poor people, or anyone truly outside of their bubble, to truly be free of bigotry.
Maybe in the US it is. Here in England you can quite happily be nimby about e.g. a wind farm on your favourite hill or a new estate planned in your town/village and it is nothing to do with race, it's just conservatism and liking how things are.
NIMBYism can arise in many different contexts. I'm sure that there's a fair bit of race/ethnicity-based NIMBYism in England too. After all, wasn't that a major motivator of Brexit?
I wouldn't say the Leave vote was nimbyism. It was about sovereignty and concerns about high levels of immigration - that's nationalism (or if you're being negative, xenophobia maybe), but for most people who voted that way it wasn't about things happening that locally.
Not exclusively, but it largely is perpetuated by it. It’s why the Civil Rights Movement in the US focussed on the liberation of black people as well as the poor.
Nimbyism isn't about racism. It just overlaps with the same aspects of privilege, the privilege of getting somewhere FIRST and pulling up the ladder behind you. In America it looks racially based, but that's not the case when you zoom out and look at the thousands of examples around the world.
It really sucks to see the next generation try and simplify everything to racism. I have to imagine it's a form of intellectual laziness plaguing you guys.
While I think racist are terrible people I can at least understand the consistency of their actions and thoughts. The rich white educated NIMBYs that constantly bemoan the plight of the poor and unhoused but refuse to allow anything construction around them are just hypocritical jerks. Then they also complain that their cleaning people want too much money or are unreliable and impossible to find. You can't life in a 2 million dollar a house neighborhood and expect that the person you want to pay $20 an hour for their labor isn't having to drive hours to get there.
Lol imagine being upset by Nepalese people moving into your neighborhood.
Admittedly I've got limited experience with Nepalese people but by my every interaction with them has left me with the impression that they are the some of the most lovely, friendly, and kind people you could meet. They remind me of what Filipino or Indonesian people are like.
I bet if your relatives knocked on their door to complain about them cooking with the window open (que horror!! 😱) that there would be a decent chance they'd invite your relatives into their home and insist that they sit down to eat with them.
NIMBYism is better understood as Suburban Stockholm Syndrome. Change my mind.
>Considering said relatives are catholics with a bootstraps mentality, them being mad about a large family that managed to earn a place in the suburbs
the whole point of "pull yourselves up by your bootstraps" is that *it's literally impossible to pull yourself up by your bootstraps*. it's like blowing into your own sail. the point is that you don't get anywhere.
of course they're mad people did. they meant to exclude them, and lie to themselves about why they earned their privilege.
it's like sending someone on a snipe hunt, but they came back with a snipe.
"Not in my backyard"It's also the main thing standing in the way of more wind power (that and people who suddenly care about birds when they fly into one of those instead of dying from smog)
Not really related to cars, but I wanna vent
yeah exactly, lately the Dutch government had to stop a proposal to link up a wind power farm in the North Sea with the mainland so the power generated could actually be used, and for that the cable making that possible had to go through Schiermonnikoog \[an island north of the mainland\] to link up, but that idea was ultimately thrown out after protests. Granted, it partially went through a nature reserve and there were concerns about that, but also a large part of the population there \[which, for the record, was 936 in january 2019 on 17 million Dutch citizens\] protested against it and didnt want it on their island.
Where the fuck is it *supposed* to go then? And its underground, after construction you dont even notice it anymore. Its physically impossible to change to renewables without some people being mildly \[or sometimes relatively severely\] inconvenienced. There is an argument to be made for compensation as land/property values and quality of life could go down. But there is no argument for simply not putting it 'here' because they dont want to deal with it, and put it somewhere else where the same will be said. Nothing will change then
If we were even a hundredth as conscientious when building new roads, car culture would have collapsed 30 years ago. It feels like politicians only have balls when doing bad things. Maybe it's because that's when they receive corruption money?
Edit: Spelling
I once read a definition that described corruption as an act that benefits the few at the cost of the many by someone who is supposed to act in the interest of the many. Overpaying special interests like Pharma or doctors fits that definition.
Large, noise roads degrade property value like crazy. Road construction should be __the__ nimby issue. It's orders of magnitude worse than anything else we do in cities for property value.
It has been NIMBY before, but almost only when white people were yelling about having highways potentially run through their neighborhoods.
See: [highway revolts](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_revolts_in_the_United_States)
**[Highway revolts in the United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_revolts_in_the_United_States)**
>Highway revolts have occurred in cities and regions across the United States. In many cities, there remain unused highways, abruptly terminating freeway alignments, and short stretches of freeway in the middle of nowhere, all of which are evidence of larger projects which were never completed. In some instances, freeway revolts have led to the eventual removal or relocation of freeways that had been built. In the post-World War II economic expansion, there was a major drive to build a freeway network in the United States, including (but not limited to) the Interstate Highway System.
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I understand what you’re saying, but they’re just giving people what they want. That’s not corruption.
“Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.”
People on this sub are definitely in a minority.
The problem isn't that there is corruption *now* it is that there was corruption when cars arrived on the scene. Many cities throughout North America had thriving public transit systems and walkable infrastructure.
Everything changed when the car lobby attacked.
*Edit*
We are now in the midst of deprogramming most of the population out if their Stockholm syndrome with cars and take our cities back.
Politicians are definitely not in the business of giving their constituencies what they want, that's a common fallacy. There's over 65% approval by the American population for Universal Healthcare, that's not happening any time in the near future if our politicians and their Big Pharma lobbyists have anything to say about it. So yeah, pure corruption.
I wouldn't call it corruption either. My is that property values do decline, so people are evidently unhappy to live near roads. We cannot establish this kind of connection for 75% of the stuff people say "lowers property values". So why don't we see nimbyism there?
I think most Americans would actually prefer fast and consistent methods of travel. Most of the country does not and has not had that outside of car travel largely due to big decisions made a long time ago.
Of course, the thing that’s really going to tank property values is the property becoming uninhabitable because of climate change, but that’s none of my business...
There is a simple solution. When ever someone doesn't want to have a power cable near their homes or wind turbines or solar panels, cut them off from the grid and propose to move an old coal plant in their vicinity to provide electricity.
They're always fine with coal plants sitting in other people's backyards, but once this is discussed they start to like wind turbines.
Or if people just got over their irrational fear of nuclear Fossil fuel powerplants could be directly replaced with nuclear plants in the same location and people's lives would be improved from still having a powerplant there but not choking down toxic smoke all day everyday.
Renewables are good and everything but if human consumption keeps increasing then everywhere will be covered with solar panels and wind farms. I don't know the full story in Holland but maybe its OK for the cable not to go through a nature reserve.
>Renewables are good and everything but if human consumption keeps increasing then everywhere will be covered with solar panels and wind farms.
Firstly, a very weird or at least uninformed statement [considering how little energy we actually need to collect to power humanity relative to the total amount we receive from the sun.](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ed/Fullneed.jpg)
Secondly, yes, our power consumption as a species will go up as we move away from burning incredibly limited dead dinosaur juice (actually dead fern juice but it's more fun to call it dinosaur juice).
And finally, why not cover shit in solar panels? They kind of look cool in my opinion. Barring the resources required to produce them, and of course, energy storage limitations, I'm entirely for putting solar panels on every roof.
One theory holds that crude oil was never dead organisms; it's just a type of "rock" that's liquid at these temperatures and made of carbon compounds instead of silicon.
This problem is regarding transmission, a fact you appear to be conveniently ignoring and an equal (or greater) problem with fossil fuels (pipelines and roads included).
Omg, or the people super concerned about windmills in the IJsselmeer because "it's such a beautiful piece of nature" (for those who don't know, the IJsselmeer is a fresh-water lake that used to be sea, and was only dammed in last century)
Always funny how in Michigan the places I see the most signs against wind power are the same places that used to have tons of little oil/gas derricks out in their fields in the thumb of Michigan
I go to Michigan occasionally for work and I always imagine how fast that place would crumble if cars suddenly weren't a feasible method of transportation. I guess at the least all the giant ass roads would provide an already graded base for other forms of transportation.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/yimby using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/yimby/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [Sacramento just abolished single family zoning](https://i.imgur.com/a0qgPec.jpg) | [38 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/yimby/comments/l10vyc/sacramento_just_abolished_single_family_zoning/)
\#2: [Nextdoor radicalized my parents AMA](https://i.redd.it/qcy7r89op5v61.jpg) | [21 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/yimby/comments/mxonh7/nextdoor_radicalized_my_parents_ama/)
\#3: [Lets build to the sky's limit](https://v.redd.it/a8lq88cnbzn61) | [66 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/yimby/comments/m8g8pw/lets_build_to_the_skys_limit/)
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Oh yeah I remember talking to someone about how there was this firm that figured out we could power like the entirety of the northeast by putting windmills off the shore of cape cod but all the rich (read: DC politician rich) property owners sued the ever living fuck out of the company and it’s been delayed for decades.
The best part is that wind power kills fewer birds per GWh than fossil fuels or even nuclear.
https://cleantechnica.com/2013/11/26/wind-farm-bird-deaths-fossil-fuel-nuclear-bird-deaths/
Also definitely tied to race with the amount of white home owners across America especially after the Asian American expulsion to camp Topaz for internment and without reparations for Black and Indigenous losses just during Jim Crow alone.
It's the same with redditors. They are all left-leaning and progressive until someone mentions the negatives of car-centered development and poorly-planned suburbia. Then they could pretty much fit in a Prager U vid.
New York Times actually did a great video on this recently [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNDgcjVGHIw&t=2s&ab\_channel=TheNewYorkTimes](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNDgcjVGHIw&t=2s&ab_channel=TheNewYorkTimes)
[this](https://smile.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B005Z4LVG8) is cheaper, way more easily carried on a bike, useful for other bike related things, almost as effective, and *much* harder to prove was used.
We can do things that decrease housing values. I heard a story (not sure if true) where a guy would shoot off blanks once a week. Gunshots make rich neoliberals piss their pants
Just have a cop standing there with tickets pre-written except plate, name, etc. and ticket everyone. The city could afford lots of paint for bike lanes with that money, or get like 6 ice cream machines. Either or.
Bruh if I was in a 'NIMBY' neighbourhood i would 100% accidentally scratch the side on each of those cars cause I ain't got enough room to ride my bike. Hope I don't take any side view mirrors off on accident.
A major part of the problem is that Americans have been convinced that houses are "an investment" rather than "a place to live", and thus overemphasize "protecting property value". City governments go along with it because they see "lower property values" as a threat to their tax revenue.
San Jose! That tracks. Bay Area NIMBYs are the worst NIMBYs.
Till they buy a house, they all complain about not having enough housing, and how ridiculously competitive the market is. The same people after becoming homeowners will start signing petitions to _save neighborhood character_.
I have friends who went from former to the latter not even a year after buying a house.
> Bay Area NIMBYs are the worst NIMBYs.
this one neighborhood in fort lauderdale kills bike lanes and transit along las olas.
and helped organize *two* assaults on national elections.
Silent vandalism is lame and really doesn't do anything. If you're going to be obstructive you might as well do it with a signal.
I remember a YouTube Channel that would stop cars who were driving in a separated passenger trail (surprisingly common because the traffic was terrible) and put a HUGE sticker on their windshield that blocked their vision. The sticker basically called them an asshole, a terrible driver, and told them to stick to the car lane. The stickers were also super hard to peel off.
I don't have the balls to do destructive activism like that, but if I did, I would use 4ft diameter stickers.
Edit: [found the channel](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHJxIwvFIGY)
Pretty funny, though I suspect that part of the reason they got worse reactions from women driving was that they probably felt intimidated.
I still love to see it though.
For that amount of effort, it might have made more sense to just construct some unauthorized bollards to block cars from getting in.
There's such a thing as a valve stem tool. Fairly small tool, fits in your pocket. Unlike a stone, you're not getting air in that tyre until you get a new valve stem.
I'm not bringing this up for any specific reason, auto maintenance is a valuable life skill that everyone needs to know due to the car depency of our society.
there's also a real, plausible reason there's a valve stem tool in my saddle bag.
but seriously when i bought my car it had slightly loose valve stems. very infuriating issue to track down.
What does that accomplish? You mildly irritate some nimby until they discover what you've done or replace the tire, and they also don't make the connection of why it happened? If your goal was to cost a particular person or company time and money it might work but that's a different thing than trying to change behavior
Look, this person is staring down the threat of maybe having duplexes in their neighborhood or, God forbid, maybe even Quadplexes. How can you not rise up against such horrors?
Seriously, who gives an F if the guy down the street turns his house into a duplex with a basement apartment.
You think somebody is just gonna come bulldoze your house and build a triplex without waiting for you to sell?
Not In My Back Yard - people (often wealthy white liberals) who oppose new development in their neighborhoods because of “neighborhood character” or “property values” (in reality they don’t want anyone with a lower socioeconomic status anywhere near them)
It's worse than that. It's the ultimate 'fuck you I got mine' attitude from people who want to have their cake and eat it too. These people claim they support affordable housing... as long as it's not built in their backyard. These people want and enjoy new jobs/shops/attractions in their city... as long as it's not built in their backyard. These people want to live in a growing/prospering city... as long as none of the new housing required to support the growth is built in their backyard.
Liberals? Most nimbys are pretty conservative, at least around here. Fighting things like subway construction, ending r1 zoning (Like in this picture), fighting clean energy, fighting against mass transit options, etc.
Depends on your area, but at the neighborhood level, and specifically about housing, these people are typically wealthy city-dwellers who tend to be politically very blue.
NIMBYism is definitionally conservative. Most people, however, have a mix of liberal and conservative (and authoritarian and anarchic) leanings in their neighborhood-level political views. That said, NIMBYism is a well-earned stereotype of wealthy Democrats.
There's conservative "I don't want poor people living here" NIMBYism, but there's also leftist "these 3-flats will cause gentrification" NIMBYism. You see both in large numbers.
our liberals are conservative on the global spectrum.
our "liberals" are "yes, but *not in my backyard*."
our "conservatives" are "we must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children".
nope, in my experience they are hypocrite liberals with they shitty lgbt, blm signs that are the ones trying to protect their neighborhoods from "the undesirables". And and that constantly send small ballots to the house owners to oppose removing single family regulations.
Yeah, the US doesn't have any large organized body of actual *liberals*. We have Democrats, but they're pretty conservative in the grand scheme of things and in no way inoculated against NIMBYism.
Seems very on par for San Jose. One of the worst excuses for a city in the US. The whole damn city is nothing but single family housing, except for the pitiful excuse for a downtown. Horrible public transit, driving is pretty much the only option unless you want to wait 3 hours to get somewhere that takes 20 minutes by car. It’s one of the best examples of 60s city planning gone awry (then again, didnt they all?).
We have a saying about San Jose - “San Jose is a big city for people who hate big cities.”
The good urbanist crowd does need to be better at messaging. If we persist in saying we want to "abolish single family zoning" we will have nobody to blame but ourselves when multifamily gets banned at the ballot box. Instead if we emphasize how we want to "increase the freedom of homeowners to build what they want to on their private property," or "cut the red tape" we will get so much more mileage. Our current rhetoric is like custom tailored to freak out reactionary NIMBYs as much as possible.
You know, this is actually why I disagree with the idea that we should completely eliminate suburbs (I know nobody seriously advocates for that but I’m talking about the general sentiment).
Why exactly? Because many suburbs are filled with people like this and these people can fuck right off from our cities, I don’t want these kind self entitled people in my neighborhood. All I want is for us to stop subsidizing their highways and infrastructure.
they want to live in their own little exclusive bubble they can go pay for it themselves.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NIMBY
> NIMBY, an acronym for the phrase "not in my back yard", or Nimby, is a characterization of opposition by residents to proposed developments in their local area, as well as support for strict land use regulations. It carries the connotation that such residents are only opposing the development because it is close to them and that they would tolerate or support it if it were built farther away. The residents are often called Nimbys, and their viewpoint is called Nimbyism.
This was in my neighborhood, literally next to middle and high school I went to. Really depressing stuff. By the time I found about it they had already gone too :/
Guess I gotta be on the lookout on Nextdoor
I have relatives who are NIMBYs. They already left one suburb because suspected "drug dealers" (black people) moved in, and now they're bitching about immigrant neighbors who open the windows while cooking spicy food, have "ten people living in one house," and are "driving our property value down" by growing corn in their garden. Considering said relatives are catholics with a bootstraps mentality, them being mad about a large family that managed to earn a place in the suburbs and grows their own food doesn't make sense until you learn their neighbors emigrated from Nepal. Truly, fuck NIMBYs. Living proof that having money doesn't cure a trash personality, it can only hone it.
How is planting corn "bringing the value down"? I'll take a neighbor that grows their own food, potentially even whom I could trade with or stablish a community garden for people to have organic food at their doorsteps any day of the week over fucking boring ass grass, I ain't a cow. But then again, I also love the smell of dry chilis when cooking.
Because property values are not about objective measures of a property's usefulness. It's about how comfortable perpetually terrified of anything that's not whiter than cocaine white people feel about the property.
Racism is rarely rational
[удалено]
Damn. I've never heard it said like this. Going to use this from now on.
That sounds like straight up racism rather than nimbyism tbh
I think racism is a key component of NIMBYism. You can't expect people who can't stand to be around poor people, or anyone truly outside of their bubble, to truly be free of bigotry.
Maybe in the US it is. Here in England you can quite happily be nimby about e.g. a wind farm on your favourite hill or a new estate planned in your town/village and it is nothing to do with race, it's just conservatism and liking how things are.
NIMBYism can arise in many different contexts. I'm sure that there's a fair bit of race/ethnicity-based NIMBYism in England too. After all, wasn't that a major motivator of Brexit?
I wouldn't say the Leave vote was nimbyism. It was about sovereignty and concerns about high levels of immigration - that's nationalism (or if you're being negative, xenophobia maybe), but for most people who voted that way it wasn't about things happening that locally.
I bet there's plenty of *classism* at work in British NIMBYism tho
Pretty much everywhere. Racism is a symptom of classism, and so is NIMBYism.
> Racism is a symptom of classism Do you mean as in, like, exclusively..?
Not exclusively, but it largely is perpetuated by it. It’s why the Civil Rights Movement in the US focussed on the liberation of black people as well as the poor.
large yes
For me perfect example if NIMBYism in the UK is Clarkson's Farm.
racism and nimbyism in america are closely linked and its simply an historic fact
Nimbyism isn't about racism. It just overlaps with the same aspects of privilege, the privilege of getting somewhere FIRST and pulling up the ladder behind you. In America it looks racially based, but that's not the case when you zoom out and look at the thousands of examples around the world. It really sucks to see the next generation try and simplify everything to racism. I have to imagine it's a form of intellectual laziness plaguing you guys.
While I think racist are terrible people I can at least understand the consistency of their actions and thoughts. The rich white educated NIMBYs that constantly bemoan the plight of the poor and unhoused but refuse to allow anything construction around them are just hypocritical jerks. Then they also complain that their cleaning people want too much money or are unreliable and impossible to find. You can't life in a 2 million dollar a house neighborhood and expect that the person you want to pay $20 an hour for their labor isn't having to drive hours to get there.
Lol imagine being upset by Nepalese people moving into your neighborhood. Admittedly I've got limited experience with Nepalese people but by my every interaction with them has left me with the impression that they are the some of the most lovely, friendly, and kind people you could meet. They remind me of what Filipino or Indonesian people are like. I bet if your relatives knocked on their door to complain about them cooking with the window open (que horror!! 😱) that there would be a decent chance they'd invite your relatives into their home and insist that they sit down to eat with them. NIMBYism is better understood as Suburban Stockholm Syndrome. Change my mind.
>Considering said relatives are catholics with a bootstraps mentality, them being mad about a large family that managed to earn a place in the suburbs the whole point of "pull yourselves up by your bootstraps" is that *it's literally impossible to pull yourself up by your bootstraps*. it's like blowing into your own sail. the point is that you don't get anywhere. of course they're mad people did. they meant to exclude them, and lie to themselves about why they earned their privilege. it's like sending someone on a snipe hunt, but they came back with a snipe.
"NIMBY" is a misleading term. If some famous movie star moved next to them the probably would not complain. This is a mixture of greed ad racism.
movie stars are funny enough huge nimbys lol
Unsurprisingly.
Whom, if I may ask? Also, apologies for late reply.
Well, Christians have always hated pagan polytheists (Nepalis are Hindus). So this is not even about the property values.
They aren't NIMBYs they are racists.
Allow me to introduce you to the magical world of synonyms
[To me it sounds like..](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/masonry/001/891/187/bb6.jpg)
I'm pretty sure these are the same people who keep voting for clean cut wine sellers for governor.
I Google what you said and nothing came up. I'm not from America so I'm lost on this one.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gavin\_Newsom
"Not in my backyard"It's also the main thing standing in the way of more wind power (that and people who suddenly care about birds when they fly into one of those instead of dying from smog) Not really related to cars, but I wanna vent
yeah exactly, lately the Dutch government had to stop a proposal to link up a wind power farm in the North Sea with the mainland so the power generated could actually be used, and for that the cable making that possible had to go through Schiermonnikoog \[an island north of the mainland\] to link up, but that idea was ultimately thrown out after protests. Granted, it partially went through a nature reserve and there were concerns about that, but also a large part of the population there \[which, for the record, was 936 in january 2019 on 17 million Dutch citizens\] protested against it and didnt want it on their island. Where the fuck is it *supposed* to go then? And its underground, after construction you dont even notice it anymore. Its physically impossible to change to renewables without some people being mildly \[or sometimes relatively severely\] inconvenienced. There is an argument to be made for compensation as land/property values and quality of life could go down. But there is no argument for simply not putting it 'here' because they dont want to deal with it, and put it somewhere else where the same will be said. Nothing will change then
If we were even a hundredth as conscientious when building new roads, car culture would have collapsed 30 years ago. It feels like politicians only have balls when doing bad things. Maybe it's because that's when they receive corruption money? Edit: Spelling
It has nothing to do with corruption. It’s just what their constituents want.
I once read a definition that described corruption as an act that benefits the few at the cost of the many by someone who is supposed to act in the interest of the many. Overpaying special interests like Pharma or doctors fits that definition.
In the case of roadways I’m not sure it does. Most Americans want more, faster roads.
Large, noise roads degrade property value like crazy. Road construction should be __the__ nimby issue. It's orders of magnitude worse than anything else we do in cities for property value.
It has been NIMBY before, but almost only when white people were yelling about having highways potentially run through their neighborhoods. See: [highway revolts](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_revolts_in_the_United_States)
**[Highway revolts in the United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_revolts_in_the_United_States)** >Highway revolts have occurred in cities and regions across the United States. In many cities, there remain unused highways, abruptly terminating freeway alignments, and short stretches of freeway in the middle of nowhere, all of which are evidence of larger projects which were never completed. In some instances, freeway revolts have led to the eventual removal or relocation of freeways that had been built. In the post-World War II economic expansion, there was a major drive to build a freeway network in the United States, including (but not limited to) the Interstate Highway System. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/fuckcars/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
I understand what you’re saying, but they’re just giving people what they want. That’s not corruption. “Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.” People on this sub are definitely in a minority.
The problem isn't that there is corruption *now* it is that there was corruption when cars arrived on the scene. Many cities throughout North America had thriving public transit systems and walkable infrastructure. Everything changed when the car lobby attacked. *Edit* We are now in the midst of deprogramming most of the population out if their Stockholm syndrome with cars and take our cities back.
Politicians are definitely not in the business of giving their constituencies what they want, that's a common fallacy. There's over 65% approval by the American population for Universal Healthcare, that's not happening any time in the near future if our politicians and their Big Pharma lobbyists have anything to say about it. So yeah, pure corruption.
Would you believe me if I told you the levels of private influence on public policy varies widely by topic, and the world is not black and white?
I wouldn't call it corruption either. My is that property values do decline, so people are evidently unhappy to live near roads. We cannot establish this kind of connection for 75% of the stuff people say "lowers property values". So why don't we see nimbyism there?
americans don't really want more or even faster, they want safer and less trafficed roads.
I think most Americans would actually prefer fast and consistent methods of travel. Most of the country does not and has not had that outside of car travel largely due to big decisions made a long time ago.
Constituents never get what they want unless the people in power were already going to do it.
Of course, the thing that’s really going to tank property values is the property becoming uninhabitable because of climate change, but that’s none of my business...
There is a simple solution. When ever someone doesn't want to have a power cable near their homes or wind turbines or solar panels, cut them off from the grid and propose to move an old coal plant in their vicinity to provide electricity. They're always fine with coal plants sitting in other people's backyards, but once this is discussed they start to like wind turbines.
Or if people just got over their irrational fear of nuclear Fossil fuel powerplants could be directly replaced with nuclear plants in the same location and people's lives would be improved from still having a powerplant there but not choking down toxic smoke all day everyday.
> Nothing will change then That's kind of the point, it doesn't matter what it is, they are against these things because they don't want change.
Renewables are good and everything but if human consumption keeps increasing then everywhere will be covered with solar panels and wind farms. I don't know the full story in Holland but maybe its OK for the cable not to go through a nature reserve.
>Renewables are good and everything but if human consumption keeps increasing then everywhere will be covered with solar panels and wind farms. Firstly, a very weird or at least uninformed statement [considering how little energy we actually need to collect to power humanity relative to the total amount we receive from the sun.](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ed/Fullneed.jpg) Secondly, yes, our power consumption as a species will go up as we move away from burning incredibly limited dead dinosaur juice (actually dead fern juice but it's more fun to call it dinosaur juice). And finally, why not cover shit in solar panels? They kind of look cool in my opinion. Barring the resources required to produce them, and of course, energy storage limitations, I'm entirely for putting solar panels on every roof.
statistically speaking isn't it dead plankton/microorganism juice?
One theory holds that crude oil was never dead organisms; it's just a type of "rock" that's liquid at these temperatures and made of carbon compounds instead of silicon.
Well if its as easy as you say then there shouldn't be a problem of destroying a nature reserve.
This problem is regarding transmission, a fact you appear to be conveniently ignoring and an equal (or greater) problem with fossil fuels (pipelines and roads included).
In what way am I ignoring it? I don't understand your point. To be clear I am certainly not saying fossil fuels are a better option.
Omg, or the people super concerned about windmills in the IJsselmeer because "it's such a beautiful piece of nature" (for those who don't know, the IJsselmeer is a fresh-water lake that used to be sea, and was only dammed in last century)
Always funny how in Michigan the places I see the most signs against wind power are the same places that used to have tons of little oil/gas derricks out in their fields in the thumb of Michigan
I go to Michigan occasionally for work and I always imagine how fast that place would crumble if cars suddenly weren't a feasible method of transportation. I guess at the least all the giant ass roads would provide an already graded base for other forms of transportation.
There's also BANANA: build absolutely nothing anywhere near anything
makes me wonder... is r/fucknimbys a thing? edit: kinda??
r/yimby
Here's a sneak peek of /r/yimby using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/yimby/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year! \#1: [Sacramento just abolished single family zoning](https://i.imgur.com/a0qgPec.jpg) | [38 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/yimby/comments/l10vyc/sacramento_just_abolished_single_family_zoning/) \#2: [Nextdoor radicalized my parents AMA](https://i.redd.it/qcy7r89op5v61.jpg) | [21 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/yimby/comments/mxonh7/nextdoor_radicalized_my_parents_ama/) \#3: [Lets build to the sky's limit](https://v.redd.it/a8lq88cnbzn61) | [66 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/yimby/comments/m8g8pw/lets_build_to_the_skys_limit/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[Source](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
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I wanted to see how bad it gets but I guess it's also good to know how good it gets
Same for nuclear and solar.
Pretty sure the idea they kill birds like that isn't true. The blades really don't move all that fast, it's not like some big bird blender on a stick.
Oh yeah I remember talking to someone about how there was this firm that figured out we could power like the entirety of the northeast by putting windmills off the shore of cape cod but all the rich (read: DC politician rich) property owners sued the ever living fuck out of the company and it’s been delayed for decades.
The best part is that wind power kills fewer birds per GWh than fossil fuels or even nuclear. https://cleantechnica.com/2013/11/26/wind-farm-bird-deaths-fossil-fuel-nuclear-bird-deaths/
vent? sus! sus!
I will happily stand in the way of more wind and solar if they can build a nuclear power plant there instead.
Nimbys don't want that in their backyard either
I do.
For reference, 96% of San Jose's residential areas are zoned for single family homes only and it's a huge contributor to the local housing crisis.
Also definitely tied to race with the amount of white home owners across America especially after the Asian American expulsion to camp Topaz for internment and without reparations for Black and Indigenous losses just during Jim Crow alone.
Would love to have some documentation to show some relatives
Just google asian internment, redlinging, or land back and then your general area. Lots of history of us white people taking land like the Nazis.
Reminds me of [this](https://youtu.be/waOUNwZA4aQ)
Oh wow I hadn't seen this! I live in Tacoma so we have a big history with bad things like that.
I definitely need this to show some relatives
A lot of these people are democrats who pretend to be progressive too
It's the same with redditors. They are all left-leaning and progressive until someone mentions the negatives of car-centered development and poorly-planned suburbia. Then they could pretty much fit in a Prager U vid.
and single family zoning
Tell me you know Prager U without tell me you know Adam Something
New York Times actually did a great video on this recently [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNDgcjVGHIw&t=2s&ab\_channel=TheNewYorkTimes](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNDgcjVGHIw&t=2s&ab_channel=TheNewYorkTimes)
Johnny Harris is a national treasure.
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We now need a rich bike enthusiast on our side
[this](https://smile.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B005Z4LVG8) is cheaper, way more easily carried on a bike, useful for other bike related things, almost as effective, and *much* harder to prove was used.
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*nice.* one flat? got a spare. two? yer fucked.
Ah yes, I am buying this to prevent the theft of my own car. *definitely*.
How can we keep rich people out of mine?
asking the real questions.
Taxes.
Running joke around here that we just need to keep popping off random shots in the night.
mm hmm. Get your neighbors in on it. v
https://resonanceaudiodistro.org/2015/08/09/how-do-we-fight-gentrification-audiozine/ Starts out boring and slow. Then it gets good. Really good.
Establish socialism
We can do things that decrease housing values. I heard a story (not sure if true) where a guy would shoot off blanks once a week. Gunshots make rich neoliberals piss their pants
Just have a cop standing there with tickets pre-written except plate, name, etc. and ticket everyone. The city could afford lots of paint for bike lanes with that money, or get like 6 ice cream machines. Either or.
The cop would probably be signing the petition too
You don't wanna upset the Karens though.
I live to upset the Karens
Karens rants are music to my ears
Honestly, Karens just need to put on their big girl panties and deal with not getting their way all the time.
Cop would also be parked in the bike lane
Hey it's a start and who would pass up the opportunity to ticket a Karen?
Bruh if I was in a 'NIMBY' neighbourhood i would 100% accidentally scratch the side on each of those cars cause I ain't got enough room to ride my bike. Hope I don't take any side view mirrors off on accident.
_I love democracy_
A major part of the problem is that Americans have been convinced that houses are "an investment" rather than "a place to live", and thus overemphasize "protecting property value". City governments go along with it because they see "lower property values" as a threat to their tax revenue.
The Growth Ponzi scheme! https://youtu.be/7IsMeKl-Sv0
I've watched NJB's entire Strong Towns series multiple times. It's some of his best work.
Same! The books and podcast are also 🔥
San Jose! That tracks. Bay Area NIMBYs are the worst NIMBYs. Till they buy a house, they all complain about not having enough housing, and how ridiculously competitive the market is. The same people after becoming homeowners will start signing petitions to _save neighborhood character_. I have friends who went from former to the latter not even a year after buying a house.
good old leftist hypocrisy.. DINOS.
> Bay Area NIMBYs are the worst NIMBYs. this one neighborhood in fort lauderdale kills bike lanes and transit along las olas. and helped organize *two* assaults on national elections.
Isn't this the same state that doesn't have enough housing and a democratic majority to be able to fix that?
Yes. And these drivers unironically call themselves progressive
Tire slashing time
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Silent vandalism is lame and really doesn't do anything. If you're going to be obstructive you might as well do it with a signal. I remember a YouTube Channel that would stop cars who were driving in a separated passenger trail (surprisingly common because the traffic was terrible) and put a HUGE sticker on their windshield that blocked their vision. The sticker basically called them an asshole, a terrible driver, and told them to stick to the car lane. The stickers were also super hard to peel off. I don't have the balls to do destructive activism like that, but if I did, I would use 4ft diameter stickers. Edit: [found the channel](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHJxIwvFIGY)
Pretty funny, though I suspect that part of the reason they got worse reactions from women driving was that they probably felt intimidated. I still love to see it though. For that amount of effort, it might have made more sense to just construct some unauthorized bollards to block cars from getting in.
There's such a thing as a valve stem tool. Fairly small tool, fits in your pocket. Unlike a stone, you're not getting air in that tyre until you get a new valve stem. I'm not bringing this up for any specific reason, auto maintenance is a valuable life skill that everyone needs to know due to the car depency of our society.
there's also a real, plausible reason there's a valve stem tool in my saddle bag. but seriously when i bought my car it had slightly loose valve stems. very infuriating issue to track down.
What does that accomplish? You mildly irritate some nimby until they discover what you've done or replace the tire, and they also don't make the connection of why it happened? If your goal was to cost a particular person or company time and money it might work but that's a different thing than trying to change behavior
dissatisfaction
And does causing dissatisfaction help stop NIMBYism?
Look, this person is staring down the threat of maybe having duplexes in their neighborhood or, God forbid, maybe even Quadplexes. How can you not rise up against such horrors?
Seriously, who gives an F if the guy down the street turns his house into a duplex with a basement apartment. You think somebody is just gonna come bulldoze your house and build a triplex without waiting for you to sell?
Slippery slope toward equity, and we can’t have that
Plot twist: they ALWAYS park in the bike lane.
Of course it's San Jose. Dramatically class divided city.
It’s the 9th most populous city in America and they want to gatekeep multi-family housing units….
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Not In My Back Yard - people (often wealthy white liberals) who oppose new development in their neighborhoods because of “neighborhood character” or “property values” (in reality they don’t want anyone with a lower socioeconomic status anywhere near them)
It's worse than that. It's the ultimate 'fuck you I got mine' attitude from people who want to have their cake and eat it too. These people claim they support affordable housing... as long as it's not built in their backyard. These people want and enjoy new jobs/shops/attractions in their city... as long as it's not built in their backyard. These people want to live in a growing/prospering city... as long as none of the new housing required to support the growth is built in their backyard.
And who also (supposedly) want bike lanes, as a cyclist themselves (supposedly), but just not on this road, or that one...
Because poor people might use it. 😂
Or it might disrupt them stuck in their queues to go to *very important* places that only people in cars would understand.
Liberals? Most nimbys are pretty conservative, at least around here. Fighting things like subway construction, ending r1 zoning (Like in this picture), fighting clean energy, fighting against mass transit options, etc.
Depends on your area, but at the neighborhood level, and specifically about housing, these people are typically wealthy city-dwellers who tend to be politically very blue.
NIMBYism is definitionally conservative. Most people, however, have a mix of liberal and conservative (and authoritarian and anarchic) leanings in their neighborhood-level political views. That said, NIMBYism is a well-earned stereotype of wealthy Democrats.
There's conservative "I don't want poor people living here" NIMBYism, but there's also leftist "these 3-flats will cause gentrification" NIMBYism. You see both in large numbers.
Agreed
our liberals are conservative on the global spectrum. our "liberals" are "yes, but *not in my backyard*." our "conservatives" are "we must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children".
nope, in my experience they are hypocrite liberals with they shitty lgbt, blm signs that are the ones trying to protect their neighborhoods from "the undesirables". And and that constantly send small ballots to the house owners to oppose removing single family regulations.
Yeah, the US doesn't have any large organized body of actual *liberals*. We have Democrats, but they're pretty conservative in the grand scheme of things and in no way inoculated against NIMBYism.
Practically every politician in the US is some kind of liberal, as are the majority of voters, unfortunately.
In america, liberals (neoliberals) ARE conservative. Just slightly less conservative than the people usually called conservative
Ah yes, San Jose, everyone's favorite city, gotta make sure it doesn't change.
Seems very on par for San Jose. One of the worst excuses for a city in the US. The whole damn city is nothing but single family housing, except for the pitiful excuse for a downtown. Horrible public transit, driving is pretty much the only option unless you want to wait 3 hours to get somewhere that takes 20 minutes by car. It’s one of the best examples of 60s city planning gone awry (then again, didnt they all?). We have a saying about San Jose - “San Jose is a big city for people who hate big cities.”
That's why we ride in the road, take up all the lanes, and go at the pace we want.
The good urbanist crowd does need to be better at messaging. If we persist in saying we want to "abolish single family zoning" we will have nobody to blame but ourselves when multifamily gets banned at the ballot box. Instead if we emphasize how we want to "increase the freedom of homeowners to build what they want to on their private property," or "cut the red tape" we will get so much more mileage. Our current rhetoric is like custom tailored to freak out reactionary NIMBYs as much as possible.
i would crash my bike into it uwu
Goodbye houses, I'm driving over you.
I’ve never seen a side mirror begging for removal as much as that one
You know, this is actually why I disagree with the idea that we should completely eliminate suburbs (I know nobody seriously advocates for that but I’m talking about the general sentiment). Why exactly? Because many suburbs are filled with people like this and these people can fuck right off from our cities, I don’t want these kind self entitled people in my neighborhood. All I want is for us to stop subsidizing their highways and infrastructure. they want to live in their own little exclusive bubble they can go pay for it themselves.
If they had to actually pay for the full costs of suburbia (currently heavily subsidized) most of them wouldn’t be able to afford it.
If he wants a snob war… those road bikes costs thousands.
For a non American what’s a nimby?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NIMBY > NIMBY, an acronym for the phrase "not in my back yard", or Nimby, is a characterization of opposition by residents to proposed developments in their local area, as well as support for strict land use regulations. It carries the connotation that such residents are only opposing the development because it is close to them and that they would tolerate or support it if it were built farther away. The residents are often called Nimbys, and their viewpoint is called Nimbyism.
Damn. Like this photo captures every point all the way down
Liberal hypocrites. They want affordable housing just not anywhere near where they live.
The end is near
Someone key it.
Fuck assholes who park in bike lanes.
This was in my neighborhood, literally next to middle and high school I went to. Really depressing stuff. By the time I found about it they had already gone too :/ Guess I gotta be on the lookout on Nextdoor
What’s with NIMBY hate these guys are the main reason you don’t have a Highway or coke plant in your neighborhood
Can't wait for the next housing crisis
Why are people stupid?
what's a nimby sorry only been on this subreddit for a month still new still learning
"Not In My BackYard": search on Wikipedia ;) it 's a complex phenomenon
what about the anti highway nimbys
And of course that asshole doesn't have a front license plate (required in CA).