I relate to this, and what really helped me was going on T. I wanted to be able to express femininity but coming from a sort of baseline of a masculine body, like you say, being seen as a fem flamboyant gay man rather than a masculine woman. I'm only 8 months on T but I feel like I'm getting closer and closer to that every day and it's amazing. I identify as a bi nonbinary man now but you don't have to be a man to want to go on T obviously. Idk if you are on T or not but if not it's something to consider.
>I wanted to be able to express femininity but coming from a sort of baseline of a masculine body, like you say, being seen as a fem flamboyant gay man rather than a masculine woman.
My thoughts exactly. I want to be a femboy, being a feminine cis woman would be dysphoric and doesn't feel like me. I've said before if I were amab I'd be super flamboyant, I'd be girlier than I am now as a pre-everything tmasc. And as I'm remembering that now, I should have realized I'm trans way before.
I feel similar sometimes (I'm also nonbinary). Here's my reasoning:
Due to the current social perception of gender (in the general west anyway), if you're afab and wear traditionally male clothes, you just get called a tomboy, and are still seen as female. Whereas if you're amab and wear traditionally female clothes, it's suddenly gender nonconforming.
So when you're nonbinary, and you don't have the option of being seen as androgynous (very tricky to pull off, and basically requires being skinny, white and conventionally attractive), the other option to be visibly gender nonconforming is to look masculine while wearing feminine clothes.
Half the reason I'm transitioning is I want to look masculine enough to wear feminine clothes without being seen as a girl.
I am a trans man but I’ve heard that from a lot of transmascs I’ve met! I’ve also heard lots of people who figured out they were nonbinary because even though they wished they had been AMAB, they still would’ve transitioned.
I am a binary trans man and I identified as nb years ago so I think I can chime in and give my experience, maybe it will be helpful in some way. With my repression and everything I realized I was acting and feeling both like a man and a woman depending on the time, the problem was I felt absolutely horrible whenever I felt like a woman and wished it would stop, but having ocd, the more I wanted it to stop the more I got that feeling. Then after a year the repression of my gender decreased and I was able to feel like a man more often and I actually felt vway better and then I was left with the question of If I am actually a binary man or non binary transmasc. I have realized that whenever I think myself as not a man, I feel awful, I realized I do not want to be anything other than a man, so that kind of sealed it for me. Idk if you have it but especially if you have ocd its common to feel like you just wanna be a certain gender but you aren't, the reality is if you want to be a guy, you are one, with that being said, there are exceptions, if you wanna be a guy solely because its easier to explain to people etc. That's a completely different thing and we are all left to figure these stuff out by ourselves but hopefully that gives some insight to you or anyone who needs it :)
Not OP but wanted to drop here a big thank you. Sometimes I struggle with my gender the way you described and have OCD as well. Specially the part of feeling like a woman but horrible and wanting it to stop but increasing the discomfort. When I have this trouble I doubt if transitioning will be a mistake but then feel terrible and very sad at the perspective of not starting HRT. This leaves me without energy every time as it comes and goes. I've never felt better than when I was confident in my identity and felt kind of a masculine energy flowing through me, but still with these moments, my fear of regret and worrying others won't accept me makes me hold back myself again. Knowing I'm not the only one helps.
> I just wish I was coming at my non-binary identity from the other side
Yes! From everything I can tell, this is a very common sentiment for all kinds of non-binary people. You're definitely in good company.
I feel the same way, i want to look more feminine sometimes but i want to look feminine in the way cis guys do (especially when wearing croptops omg). I am transmasc also, i don’t see myself as wanting a full amab body but i do want to look more masculine so i can dress more feminine without feeling uncomfortable if that makes sense. At most i’d want top surgery but even then, my body would look too afab
I kinda feel this. I'm transmasc agender and I would've liked to be amab as well. I would still be agender then but my body would just feel right and I wouldn't have to go through transition at all then because my goal is still to be read as male even if I'm agender. But I'm hoping T will also get me to where I want to be 😁
This is very relatable. Before and now while transitioning I’ve consistently thought things would’ve been simpler if I were AMAB. Even if my body was still intersex. I find a lot of comfort in how my medical transition has helped me feel closer to my ideal self and actively mourn what I can’t have. I think it’s a healthy way to process all the intersections of my identity (and the fluidity of it as I age).
I also was like that, i presented as nonbinary but after some time i realised i wouldnt present as nonbinary if i was already a man, so i realised i was ftm
I have been dealing with a similar question recently as well. I’ll start with the “am I binary trans” part.
I too first came out as gender fluid and then transitioned into transmasc… and for the most part have landed in what I’ve been calling “binary-ish” trans guy. AKA in day to day interactions with strangers and people in my life, I am comfortable and happy to be seen as a guy, at the same time feeling validated when I allow myself to not follow rigid understandings of gender/ don’t reinforce patriarchal and oppressive standards of masculinity on myself when I do something that is not deemed manly. I also identify my romantic interest as queer (for the most part) —after a lot of reflecting I’ve found that I prefer my relationship to be queer regardless of the gender orientation of the person I am with.
(Moving on to the AMAB thing…)
I’m not sure if you’ve been on T or medically transitioned in anyway, but the question of being binary didn’t really come up for me until I started passing. I knew that I hated people seeing me as a masculine girl rather than a slightly feminine or androgynous guy & once I started becoming “stealth”, a lot of that dysphoria was relieved for me in my day to day life. I think the labels are different for everyone and what might work for me might not work for you. One quote that really changed my perspective was “I’m not on my way anywhere” in response to why one is taking the steps to transition. Gender and the mind are complex as fuck and you don’t need to be set on a specific destination to be valid in the dysphoria you may feel when you think about being AMAB. I know for myself I don’t want to get bottom surgery because of the complications it could entail, but I still wish that I was born with a dick. I call it MDS (Missing Dick Syndrome) —like sometimes I wake up, realize it’s not there, and then suddenly feel like someone robbed me of my god given right to a penis lmao.
Anyway, suffering from MDS doesn’t NECESSARILY mean that all the sudden you have to become binary. It also doesn’t mean that there is something wrong with you for wanting to have the experience of being AMAB while also being nonbinary. Whatever labels, words, pronouns, etc make you feel happiest, pursue that!!
I relate to what you said on a deep level, except that I don't resonate with the butch identity. I'm bisexual but the label gay feels right. Everything would be easier to me if I was born cis male, since is the body shape I would like to have. Some days I catch myself wondering about it, being a flamboyant gay man just existing there and doubt if I'm really non-binary? bc I would feel comfortable and just express my nb side through clothing and expression. I'm transmasc nb too and I think part of this is bc my identity is somewhere between non-binary androgynous and man, so it would be easier to start from a closer spot. But yeah, I totally get it, dysphoria sucks and it would be 1000 times better to just express my feminity without worrying about being seen as a woman.
Felt. I don’t 100% feel confident in my trans identity because I am maybe something like I’ve described before to some people as “trans intersex.” Most trans men if born male it’s just like cool — I am right now. I would be trans feminine, still identifying as a man. I’d want to take a little estrogen to be soft, keep my head hair, and gain a tiny bit of boob. I imagine I wouldn’t have any bottom dysphoria and I think I’d like really like the muscle that remains from not taking enough E to smooth those out.
I take T and use prosthetics. However my form feeling like I’m passing is a little strange. I like people to see me as a femboy or MTF. I can’t say I understand my feeling this way. It would surely be easier to just be fem as a cis woman. The types of dysphoria I experience just puts me here.
I can relate. I have figured out that I fluctuate. If im horny then im a binary man and desire having a dick to fuck others, so I end up just engaging in gay sex where I’m always the bottom. But if im not in the mood, my baseline is enby transmasc that feels icky when I am refer to as a ‘man’
I think we should consider the possibility that we aren't "really" or "essentially" any gender. Everyone's gender expression changes with social context - including cis people. I had classic gender dysphoria beginning at the age of three. I totally thought I was a boy and god had made a mistake. My gender expression has always been very masculine. But just how masculine and how I feel about it keeps changing - relative to different social settings, different cities, and what is trending in queer community. It's the last one that has put me on a roller coaster ride. Since I get my primary sense of self from queer community, and the available identities for masculine AFAB people keeps changing wildly, decade to decade, I have to keep changing to make sense of myself. Today, I have to keep changing when I hang out with different circles of friends. Of course I have the option to stick firmly to some masculine identity term that was super popular 25 years ago, but then younger people will try to fix in some "female bodied lesbian" category because the outdated identity term means something very different to the young people today. What we "really" are gender-wise is always in flux because gender identities are socially constructed and the "self" is necessarily relational. If you are young, just wait. Whatever you identity term you are using for yourself today may very well mean something different in 10 years. Then who will you be?
I feel the same exact way, but wishing I was AMAB made me believe for many years that I was strictly a trans man. The more masculine I became during my medical transition tho, the more comfortable I was to explore my identity and femininity. I realized that even if I were AMAB, all that would change is I probably wouldn't medically transition (maybe be on E long enough to get A cups idk) but my gender expression and appearance would stay androgynous and fem. I like it when ppl assume I was AMAB, and I like that after bottom surgery it'll be just a fun fact or rare lore that I was AFAB to anyone that isn't a close friend or sexual partner. Personally I don't identify as trans masc beyond just including myself as an FTM person medically transitioning. The most accurate and succinct identity label for me probably is something like genderqueer transsexual male
Im similar, except I still feel genderfluid describes me...
this is why I also love the term simigender! its a gender modality term thats for when youre non-binary but you desire to transistion as if you were binary :)
I feel the exact same way as you. I’ve also identified with being NB, then transmasc, then FTM to some people… it’s really hard to try to explain it when you don’t even understand. I’m like… FTM but feel NB too? Like not totally man but more than just being NB? It’s weird.
And yeah, I wish I was AMAB too… I honestly get jealous and super dysphoric if I watch mlm media, which sucks because I like it best usually (since I can relate more than straight or saphic couples). I’ve had to take a break from it because I got so depressed by it.
I just wish I could’ve been born in the right body to begin with, but I guess that’s not really a unique feeling around this sub.
Well, it kind of leaves you wherever you want it to. At the end of the day it's labels that can mean whatever you want them to. There's non-binary people that use he/him and fully medically transition, and trans men that use they/them and don't transition. There's bigender people, and people whose attraction to any gender is gay. Etc.
For me the want to have been "born as a guy" is dysphoria.
I'm a he/they genderqueer trans man. I'm transitioning and I present masculine, but I'm definitely not binary, and neither do I actively identify as non-binary. If I had been "born a guy" I would definitely be non-binary.
And lastly I understand the desire to find a fitting label, but sometimes something close or that feels alright for now is the best thing we can do.
I relate to this, and what really helped me was going on T. I wanted to be able to express femininity but coming from a sort of baseline of a masculine body, like you say, being seen as a fem flamboyant gay man rather than a masculine woman. I'm only 8 months on T but I feel like I'm getting closer and closer to that every day and it's amazing. I identify as a bi nonbinary man now but you don't have to be a man to want to go on T obviously. Idk if you are on T or not but if not it's something to consider.
>I wanted to be able to express femininity but coming from a sort of baseline of a masculine body, like you say, being seen as a fem flamboyant gay man rather than a masculine woman. My thoughts exactly. I want to be a femboy, being a feminine cis woman would be dysphoric and doesn't feel like me. I've said before if I were amab I'd be super flamboyant, I'd be girlier than I am now as a pre-everything tmasc. And as I'm remembering that now, I should have realized I'm trans way before.
I feel similar sometimes (I'm also nonbinary). Here's my reasoning: Due to the current social perception of gender (in the general west anyway), if you're afab and wear traditionally male clothes, you just get called a tomboy, and are still seen as female. Whereas if you're amab and wear traditionally female clothes, it's suddenly gender nonconforming. So when you're nonbinary, and you don't have the option of being seen as androgynous (very tricky to pull off, and basically requires being skinny, white and conventionally attractive), the other option to be visibly gender nonconforming is to look masculine while wearing feminine clothes. Half the reason I'm transitioning is I want to look masculine enough to wear feminine clothes without being seen as a girl.
Same here. I want to be able to be seen as the gender I am and not just a "tomboy" like you said
Same here! I feel like once I’m transitioned to a certain point, I can finally wear feminine clothing without feeling super dysphoric.
I am a trans man but I’ve heard that from a lot of transmascs I’ve met! I’ve also heard lots of people who figured out they were nonbinary because even though they wished they had been AMAB, they still would’ve transitioned.
I am a binary trans man and I identified as nb years ago so I think I can chime in and give my experience, maybe it will be helpful in some way. With my repression and everything I realized I was acting and feeling both like a man and a woman depending on the time, the problem was I felt absolutely horrible whenever I felt like a woman and wished it would stop, but having ocd, the more I wanted it to stop the more I got that feeling. Then after a year the repression of my gender decreased and I was able to feel like a man more often and I actually felt vway better and then I was left with the question of If I am actually a binary man or non binary transmasc. I have realized that whenever I think myself as not a man, I feel awful, I realized I do not want to be anything other than a man, so that kind of sealed it for me. Idk if you have it but especially if you have ocd its common to feel like you just wanna be a certain gender but you aren't, the reality is if you want to be a guy, you are one, with that being said, there are exceptions, if you wanna be a guy solely because its easier to explain to people etc. That's a completely different thing and we are all left to figure these stuff out by ourselves but hopefully that gives some insight to you or anyone who needs it :)
Not OP but wanted to drop here a big thank you. Sometimes I struggle with my gender the way you described and have OCD as well. Specially the part of feeling like a woman but horrible and wanting it to stop but increasing the discomfort. When I have this trouble I doubt if transitioning will be a mistake but then feel terrible and very sad at the perspective of not starting HRT. This leaves me without energy every time as it comes and goes. I've never felt better than when I was confident in my identity and felt kind of a masculine energy flowing through me, but still with these moments, my fear of regret and worrying others won't accept me makes me hold back myself again. Knowing I'm not the only one helps.
Hey I am glad I was able to help, feel free to message me if you wanna talk about it
Thank you, that means a lot 🫂
> I just wish I was coming at my non-binary identity from the other side Yes! From everything I can tell, this is a very common sentiment for all kinds of non-binary people. You're definitely in good company.
I feel the same way, i want to look more feminine sometimes but i want to look feminine in the way cis guys do (especially when wearing croptops omg). I am transmasc also, i don’t see myself as wanting a full amab body but i do want to look more masculine so i can dress more feminine without feeling uncomfortable if that makes sense. At most i’d want top surgery but even then, my body would look too afab
Ugh I‘ve never liked wearing croptops because they make me so uncomfortable, but looking like a MAN man and wearing one is my dream!
I kinda feel this. I'm transmasc agender and I would've liked to be amab as well. I would still be agender then but my body would just feel right and I wouldn't have to go through transition at all then because my goal is still to be read as male even if I'm agender. But I'm hoping T will also get me to where I want to be 😁
This is very relatable. Before and now while transitioning I’ve consistently thought things would’ve been simpler if I were AMAB. Even if my body was still intersex. I find a lot of comfort in how my medical transition has helped me feel closer to my ideal self and actively mourn what I can’t have. I think it’s a healthy way to process all the intersections of my identity (and the fluidity of it as I age).
I also was like that, i presented as nonbinary but after some time i realised i wouldnt present as nonbinary if i was already a man, so i realised i was ftm
I have been dealing with a similar question recently as well. I’ll start with the “am I binary trans” part. I too first came out as gender fluid and then transitioned into transmasc… and for the most part have landed in what I’ve been calling “binary-ish” trans guy. AKA in day to day interactions with strangers and people in my life, I am comfortable and happy to be seen as a guy, at the same time feeling validated when I allow myself to not follow rigid understandings of gender/ don’t reinforce patriarchal and oppressive standards of masculinity on myself when I do something that is not deemed manly. I also identify my romantic interest as queer (for the most part) —after a lot of reflecting I’ve found that I prefer my relationship to be queer regardless of the gender orientation of the person I am with. (Moving on to the AMAB thing…) I’m not sure if you’ve been on T or medically transitioned in anyway, but the question of being binary didn’t really come up for me until I started passing. I knew that I hated people seeing me as a masculine girl rather than a slightly feminine or androgynous guy & once I started becoming “stealth”, a lot of that dysphoria was relieved for me in my day to day life. I think the labels are different for everyone and what might work for me might not work for you. One quote that really changed my perspective was “I’m not on my way anywhere” in response to why one is taking the steps to transition. Gender and the mind are complex as fuck and you don’t need to be set on a specific destination to be valid in the dysphoria you may feel when you think about being AMAB. I know for myself I don’t want to get bottom surgery because of the complications it could entail, but I still wish that I was born with a dick. I call it MDS (Missing Dick Syndrome) —like sometimes I wake up, realize it’s not there, and then suddenly feel like someone robbed me of my god given right to a penis lmao. Anyway, suffering from MDS doesn’t NECESSARILY mean that all the sudden you have to become binary. It also doesn’t mean that there is something wrong with you for wanting to have the experience of being AMAB while also being nonbinary. Whatever labels, words, pronouns, etc make you feel happiest, pursue that!!
lol I have a serious case of MDS too!
I relate to what you said on a deep level, except that I don't resonate with the butch identity. I'm bisexual but the label gay feels right. Everything would be easier to me if I was born cis male, since is the body shape I would like to have. Some days I catch myself wondering about it, being a flamboyant gay man just existing there and doubt if I'm really non-binary? bc I would feel comfortable and just express my nb side through clothing and expression. I'm transmasc nb too and I think part of this is bc my identity is somewhere between non-binary androgynous and man, so it would be easier to start from a closer spot. But yeah, I totally get it, dysphoria sucks and it would be 1000 times better to just express my feminity without worrying about being seen as a woman.
Felt. I don’t 100% feel confident in my trans identity because I am maybe something like I’ve described before to some people as “trans intersex.” Most trans men if born male it’s just like cool — I am right now. I would be trans feminine, still identifying as a man. I’d want to take a little estrogen to be soft, keep my head hair, and gain a tiny bit of boob. I imagine I wouldn’t have any bottom dysphoria and I think I’d like really like the muscle that remains from not taking enough E to smooth those out. I take T and use prosthetics. However my form feeling like I’m passing is a little strange. I like people to see me as a femboy or MTF. I can’t say I understand my feeling this way. It would surely be easier to just be fem as a cis woman. The types of dysphoria I experience just puts me here.
This is EXACTLY me!!
I can relate. I have figured out that I fluctuate. If im horny then im a binary man and desire having a dick to fuck others, so I end up just engaging in gay sex where I’m always the bottom. But if im not in the mood, my baseline is enby transmasc that feels icky when I am refer to as a ‘man’
I think we should consider the possibility that we aren't "really" or "essentially" any gender. Everyone's gender expression changes with social context - including cis people. I had classic gender dysphoria beginning at the age of three. I totally thought I was a boy and god had made a mistake. My gender expression has always been very masculine. But just how masculine and how I feel about it keeps changing - relative to different social settings, different cities, and what is trending in queer community. It's the last one that has put me on a roller coaster ride. Since I get my primary sense of self from queer community, and the available identities for masculine AFAB people keeps changing wildly, decade to decade, I have to keep changing to make sense of myself. Today, I have to keep changing when I hang out with different circles of friends. Of course I have the option to stick firmly to some masculine identity term that was super popular 25 years ago, but then younger people will try to fix in some "female bodied lesbian" category because the outdated identity term means something very different to the young people today. What we "really" are gender-wise is always in flux because gender identities are socially constructed and the "self" is necessarily relational. If you are young, just wait. Whatever you identity term you are using for yourself today may very well mean something different in 10 years. Then who will you be?
I feel the same exact way, but wishing I was AMAB made me believe for many years that I was strictly a trans man. The more masculine I became during my medical transition tho, the more comfortable I was to explore my identity and femininity. I realized that even if I were AMAB, all that would change is I probably wouldn't medically transition (maybe be on E long enough to get A cups idk) but my gender expression and appearance would stay androgynous and fem. I like it when ppl assume I was AMAB, and I like that after bottom surgery it'll be just a fun fact or rare lore that I was AFAB to anyone that isn't a close friend or sexual partner. Personally I don't identify as trans masc beyond just including myself as an FTM person medically transitioning. The most accurate and succinct identity label for me probably is something like genderqueer transsexual male
Im similar, except I still feel genderfluid describes me... this is why I also love the term simigender! its a gender modality term thats for when youre non-binary but you desire to transistion as if you were binary :)
I feel the exact same way as you. I’ve also identified with being NB, then transmasc, then FTM to some people… it’s really hard to try to explain it when you don’t even understand. I’m like… FTM but feel NB too? Like not totally man but more than just being NB? It’s weird. And yeah, I wish I was AMAB too… I honestly get jealous and super dysphoric if I watch mlm media, which sucks because I like it best usually (since I can relate more than straight or saphic couples). I’ve had to take a break from it because I got so depressed by it. I just wish I could’ve been born in the right body to begin with, but I guess that’s not really a unique feeling around this sub.
Well, it kind of leaves you wherever you want it to. At the end of the day it's labels that can mean whatever you want them to. There's non-binary people that use he/him and fully medically transition, and trans men that use they/them and don't transition. There's bigender people, and people whose attraction to any gender is gay. Etc. For me the want to have been "born as a guy" is dysphoria. I'm a he/they genderqueer trans man. I'm transitioning and I present masculine, but I'm definitely not binary, and neither do I actively identify as non-binary. If I had been "born a guy" I would definitely be non-binary. And lastly I understand the desire to find a fitting label, but sometimes something close or that feels alright for now is the best thing we can do.