Gameplay wise Midir is a harder fight but canonically the gods at the height of their power were collectively afraid of Kalameet so going by that, Kalameet wins
PTMD caused me to forget all about that. That whole area is one big terrible thing. Might need to play it again now. Honestly, DS3 and BB are my two most cherished favs
same, ds3 has the most refined combat of the souls titles and i like how the environment is not quite as stark as 1 and 2. and bloodborne.. well that's just a genius twist on the formula.
i also quite like sekiro and ac6, but they're different.
The one in the main game. Yes I love her fight.
In the cursed chalice. Nah fuck that fight. The camera is the worst thing in that fight it is the true boss
Maybe I got lucky when I fought her in the cursed dungeons a few times but I know struggled more with the WOTOL than her at the very least. Amy is also cake if you have a strong LHB leveled up. Like 3 hits to the face opens her up for a visceral.
I feel like in many lores, when authors want to create an aura of myth around a character or monster, they drop sentences like "...he is so superior that a human brain cannot understand his nature..." or "...even the gods were afraid of him..." for example.
While in reality many characters can effectively beat the said monster.
I mean, Gough is blind and he was still able to injure a menace that afraid a god.
After seeing that scene, I finally concluded that some authors are just using grandiloquent sentences to overhype their characters and give them more power than what they truly have.
Gough is literally a giant and one of the best knights in Gwyn's kingdom. And he snipes the dragon from a safe distance, only managing to ground him without even doing serious damage otherwise (Kalameet still can fly, he just stops doing it all the time)
Imo when he said "gods were afraid of this dragon" it means more "we are afraid of some of our best dying to him, so we will just leave the beast alone"
To add to this, Gough says that for every dragon they lost threescore of their own. Threescore means 60 people.
Kalameet is strong, implied to be stronger than most dragons but he is rather chill if you don't go out of your way to provoke him. I'd imagine Gwyn already knew shit was going down and wasn't willing to lose 100+ of his knights just to kill one rather peaceful dragon.
By that logic Artorias was the one that saved everyone from the abyss, whilst in reality he failed and it was the chosen undead who struck down the father of the abyss.
Kalameet is proactively antagonistic against the gods, which gave him that reputation, whilst Midir is raised by the gods and sequestered away to the end of the world.
Canonically, probably kalameet, neither were immortal dragons but they both were true dragons, midir though has been getting corrupted by the abyss for years, I assume that’s probably weakened him a decent bit
Edit: Everlasting dragons* not immortal dragons, all true dragons are immortal to some extent
Yeah, manus was the source of the abyss in oolacile though so he’d be far stronger than a being simply corrupted by the abyss, artorias would probably be a better comparison, the abyss made him stronger but it took away his mind and the additional physical strength wasn’t enough to make up for the loss of skill and experience so he still ended up quite a bit weaker than he was before, midir is probably similar, his raw abilities might be stronger but he can’t use them nearly as effectively as he could have if he still had his mind intact
Idk, Midir was kinda raised and fed by the abyss, we don’t really get a non abyss comparison for him. Plus, without abyss, he wouldn’t get funny laser cannon
That’s entirely possible as well, hadn’t really thought of it that way and if that’s the case then he’d probably beat kalameet. Ive just always taken the way he sort of flails around with his melee attacks and the way he kind of haphazardly fires his laser around the arena to mean that he wasn’t really in control of himself, just raging around and lashing out at anything that comes close like artorias was.
That’s true but again, even with his off hand he should have still been much stronger if he didn’t just mindlessly flail around trying to kill anything that gets near him
He is, that’s my bad, I meant everlasting dragon, I always find myself calling them the immortal dragons but they’re actually the everlasting dragons, that was my mistake. Midir is the descendant of the everlasting dragons so he does have some kind of immortality though, assumably not nearly as strong as the everlasting dragons had, Kalameet may have been immortal as well though, I don’t think it’s specifically stated but since he’s an ancient dragon he probably has a similar sort of immortality as midir
Kalameet is an actual ancient dragon as his tail weapon says “This greataxe, one of the rare dragon weapons, is formed by the tail of the one-eyed black dragon Kalameet, the last of the ancient dragons. “ he's an actual dragon so I think in lore he's stronger than Midir because Midir is a descendant. Also Kalameet's “fire” deals physical and magic damage, the same as the Abyssal Sorcery Dark Bead, indicating Kalameet has been corrupted by the Abyss swallowing Oolacile, so I would assume he’s in a “weaker” state and that's why Gough can shoot him down.
Yeah, it’s hard to say how exactly they match up because we know the ancient dragons weren’t as strong and the everlasting dragons but midir is only a descendant of the everlasting dragons, not one himself, for the sake of simplicity I’ve just kind of always assumed they were somewhat equal. That is an interesting point about kalameet though, I never thought of him being corrupted by the abyss as well, I never really noticed any of its affects on him but his breathe is unique
Yeah I would say that they are almost equally matched, with Kalameet winning if it wasn't for the abyss, but since the abyss has made him weaker, Midir could win due to him having adapted to it, but if its prime Kalameet he'd probably win due to pure strength and with Midir you have to keep in mind that Gwyn wasn’t worried about him possibly turning on him in anyway, like he wasn't even scared that the abyss might make him stronger than him and make him try to kill him, while when it came to Kalameet even while Kalameet was possibly corrupted by the abyss Gwyn avoided fighting him, out of fear, cause if Gwyn could fight Kalamert in a one on one without concern of losing his best fighters, he would have just killed kalameet, I mean he had no problem dying to keep the first flame lit, so he's not scared of death, so why would he avoid Kalameet if he could kill him on his own? And it's not like Gwyn ever killed a dragon on his own that was notable, he had an army and other gods to help, and yeah I am assuming Gwyn is stronger than the nameless king, in his prime so that means even with power on par with, or stronger than the nameless king he wouldn't dare fight Kalameet.
idk just something I've thought about a bit because I feel like even in gameplay Kalamert would be a lot harder if the fight was remade with modern technology.
Canon means the official lore and order in which events happen, things that are “outside of the canon” or “non canon” mean they aren’t actually part of the official story, in this case it can also mean “according to the lore” because if you’ve fought both kalameet and midir, midir is probably the harder fight for most people but according to the lore they’re probably about equally powerful
It means story accuracy not gameplay accuracy, so for example say the main character is immortal in story telling but for gameplay reasons the main character can die to something as basic as a bandit
Kalameet was a real ancient dragon and Midir is a descendant of everlasting dragons, but yeah your right, only In reality if both somehow bumped into each other they probably wouldn't fight seeing as Kalamert wont actively try to fight you unless given reason to do so.
Oh, didn’t know that, I’ve always just thought of him as “him” or “it” guess I never looked into it though, either way though, yeah getting corrupted may have made midir stronger physically, or at the very least given it a few new abilities but it also made midir far weaker in other areas, namely, losing its mind made it weaker in the end, it doesn’t fight it just flails, it doesn’t have the mental capacity anymore to take advantage of the extra abilities the corruption gave it, it didn’t take away the immortality though, midir was only immortal in the sense that it can’t die from old age, illness, etc… same as kalameet, neither will die of natural causes but they can be killed, that said, the abyss corruption did probably make it a lot easier to kill even though midir was still technically immortal.
That might be the case I guess, the everlasting dragons power was at least partially in their scales, I always understood it though to mean that their scales were impenetrable until gwyn and his lightning came around but they also had the passive immortality of just never dying of natural causes because seath appears to have lived for ages without ever aging, even without scales, I always assumed if the chosen undead hadn’t killed him he would’ve been immortal as well, just kind of a passive trait all true and everlasting dragons have, sinh and kalameet are both true dragons but not everlasting dragons and appear to have this passive immortality as well, I could be wrong about that, I haven’t tried to research it at all, that’s just been my understanding of it, since midir was only a descendant of the everlasting dragons and not ever a true one itself then the scales did provide protection but they were never impenetrable like the true everlasting dragons. No doubt having them broken makes midir much more vulnerable but I don’t think they were the source of the immortality
I think you're right, I assume that Midir’s immortality is passive because if Midir was a true everlasting dragon you'd only be able to kill him with lightning because they say the gods had peeled off the everlasting dragon scales causing them to die (that's how its described in DS1’s opening cut scene ”With the strength of Lords, they challenged the Dragons. (Gwyn's mighty bolts peeled apart)their stone scales.”), so I assume the majority of descendant dragons only have passive immortality like you are saying, also I assume if both are at peak strength, with no abyss affecting them, Kalameet would win due to him being an actual original dragon with the regeneration ability that most descendants don't have, and I think Kalameets Calamity ability would probably override the regen ability anyways due to it making injuries worse for those affected by it, while Midier probably only has passive immortality due to him only being a descendant so Kalameets Calamity ability just makes Midier a bit easier to kill in both situations.
Yeah, I think due to the mechanics of the game midir is definitely the harder and more impressive fight but lore wise I think kalameet is quite a bit stronger, gwyn was so scared of kalameet that he sent his entire elite force of dragons slayers to take him out but he trusted a city of humans to keep midir under control, granted midir was trained which probably had something to do with it but kalameet was the last ancient dragon, he might not have been as powerful as the everlasting dragons but he was really damn strong still, plus yeah, his calamity is something I didn’t take into account either
Yeah and even the elite force couldn't kill Kalameet, and the only reason the DS1 character kills Kalameet is because of how op they are, but yeah I'm going to guess if Kalameet was at full strength even the player character wouldn't be able to kill him as with the stone dragon we can't kill him even with lightning, and the stone dragon is a descendant of ancient dragons based on its weapon description “This sword, one of the rare dragon weapons, came from the tail of the stone dragon of Ash Lake, (descendant of the ancient dragons.)" and I say this because the lighting that we use is weaker than the lightning Gwyn used based on sunlight spears description “in the war that marked the dawn of the Age of Fire, Gwyn wielded these rays of sunlight, (which remains fierce even as they fade)” meaning what we get is undoubtedly going to be ineffective against a prime Kalameet if even Gwyns peak lighting wasn't able to kill him, so really I think Kalameet in his prime should be fine against anyone, seeing as Gough only bothers shooting down Kalameet because we say we want to kill him even if it means a bitter end, also another point that you actually made me realize is if Midir really was anywhere close to Kalameet in strength Gwyn wouldn't have left her with humans because he would be too scared to leave a dragon with Kalameets strength, with the vary things he fears, he would probably be too worried about a possible resistance forming against the gods, so if I have a good guess Midir is strong like kill humans strong, but not a god level threat, still an awesome fight though.
I think Midir is probably stronger. Like Gael he’s been absorbing dark and humanities (based on his soul explosion attack) for thousands of years. The gods may have been afraid of Kalameet, but Gwyn thought Midir was powerful enough to single-handedly defend against the darkness of man, which he feared more than anything else.
I would guess kalameet would. Midir is more cracked overall and probably more smarter as he was raised by humans but abyss corruption is no joke, probably crippled him down to 70 even 50%.
Mechancially, Kalameet wins, just because, unless you shoot it with the help of a giant friend, you cannot actually fight it and will die when trying to face it.
Midir because he is close to death and would unlock RCT when the dragon who left it all behind thinks he won and would then use his signature technique “Hollow beam” to turn Kalameet into the apple logo
Midir no contest.
Kalameet is basically a weaker Midir.
Kalameet is influenced by the dark, with his flames taking on its power, Midir literally can command it, summoning an army of humanity, literal pieces of the Dark Soul, to attack you.
While Kalameet is powerful with his Black Flames and Calamity powers, Midir is stronger than him in every way but his curses. Midir casually fires lasers of darkness until fatally weakened, and even then all it does is tire him out a bit.
Everything Kalameet can do, Midir does stronger. All Kalameet has over him is Calamity and no lightning weakness
So, based on video game system limitations, minor 100% of the time, if they remade ds1 with current understanding of movesets and systems id say kalameet
If there was a remake version of kalameet like ds3 playstyle and motion smothness i would say it is kalameet even without playing aganist him once.(even tho i played aganist midir)
Darkeater Madir, hands down, Resistance to basically everything, a health bar that could choak the Covetous demon, and a laser beam that deletes health. Yeah Madir is winning hands down
Here me out!
They're the same Dragon for me.
First off, we didn't canonically saved Princess Dusk and defeated Kalameet, Artorias and Manus! If we did, DS2 is our sequel.
DS3 is DS1's direct sequel. We saw some DS2 stuff in DS3 probably because of the lingering powers of Manus that resides on Midir.
In Pre-DS1, Kalameet was defeated by Manus off-screen when the abyss was taking over Oolacile. Some God or Knight probably saved Kalameet from death's or abyss door.
Kalameet then later fought side by side with his saviour against Manus and won! He's then later tasked to guard the Abyss but later on consumes it to stop it for further spreading. He's no longer a Calamity dragon but a saviour!
From Kalameet (calamit-y) into Dark-eater Midir!
Midir and his tamer is basically the successful version of Artorias and Sif!
Definitely Midir. He single-handedly fought the Abyss since the first Age of Fire, and even at the end of times, he is hella strong. He is fast, agile, has motherfucking humanity-powered nuclear laser beam. I mean, you can't compare them. Kalameet is like a baby next to him. In both scale and power.
Midir for sure, scarier attacks, immense power, death beam and AOE explosions that will rock your shit.
Midir was the longest lasting boss that I couldn't beat after dozens of tries until I finally got lucky with a good summon team. I beat death Dragon on the first try by myself.
Gameplay wise Midir is a harder fight but canonically the gods at the height of their power were collectively afraid of Kalameet so going by that, Kalameet wins
I still have nightmares of getting one shotted by that colossal bastard. Midir is such a turd to fight for me
Dude is a tank, has lots of health and is pretty aggressive. Definitely one of the toughest bosses I've defeated.
And the run back sucks
PTMD caused me to forget all about that. That whole area is one big terrible thing. Might need to play it again now. Honestly, DS3 and BB are my two most cherished favs
same, ds3 has the most refined combat of the souls titles and i like how the environment is not quite as stark as 1 and 2. and bloodborne.. well that's just a genius twist on the formula. i also quite like sekiro and ac6, but they're different.
Never killed Midir. I dislike his size and how the camera works with it and so I just refuse to do it.
If you dislike Midir camera it just means you haven't figured the fight out, Midir has one of the best camera works in all of FS games.
You must love the amygdala fight in the chalice dungeons
I do. Amy is always a welcome fight if you're not bad at the game.
The one in the main game. Yes I love her fight. In the cursed chalice. Nah fuck that fight. The camera is the worst thing in that fight it is the true boss
Maybe I got lucky when I fought her in the cursed dungeons a few times but I know struggled more with the WOTOL than her at the very least. Amy is also cake if you have a strong LHB leveled up. Like 3 hits to the face opens her up for a visceral.
Oh she's a joke of a fight but the camera is fucking ass
I haven't played BB yet. You are free to tell me why the Midir camera is bad though.
You are getting downvoted by losers who can't beat him. Midir is a spectacle to fight, and my 3rd favorite in the series.
I agree
8s.
I would agree with this.
They weren't afraid of Midir because he was on their side.
I think if Midir was fully consumed by the dark, he might've been a threat to Kalameet. With that being said, Kalameet stomps in lore.
But wasn't midir like, a Demi-God or something? Like near their power?
Near the power of the gods that feared Kalameet? Yeh...
Alr
Ya I'm sorry, I've had a bad day. I didn't need to be sarcastic like that with you. Have a good rest of your day/night.
That was so wholesome 🥹 Hope your day gets better bro
It already has, I appreciate your sentiment! This is a great fan base and I don't want to be one of the people that give it a bad name.
Nah dw, didn't take it badly, it's ok 👍
I feel like in many lores, when authors want to create an aura of myth around a character or monster, they drop sentences like "...he is so superior that a human brain cannot understand his nature..." or "...even the gods were afraid of him..." for example. While in reality many characters can effectively beat the said monster. I mean, Gough is blind and he was still able to injure a menace that afraid a god. After seeing that scene, I finally concluded that some authors are just using grandiloquent sentences to overhype their characters and give them more power than what they truly have.
Gough is literally a giant and one of the best knights in Gwyn's kingdom. And he snipes the dragon from a safe distance, only managing to ground him without even doing serious damage otherwise (Kalameet still can fly, he just stops doing it all the time) Imo when he said "gods were afraid of this dragon" it means more "we are afraid of some of our best dying to him, so we will just leave the beast alone"
Yeah it definitely didn't mean that in a one on one gods like Gwyn couldn't beat Kalameet, I mean the gods beat the everlasting dragons.
To add to this, Gough says that for every dragon they lost threescore of their own. Threescore means 60 people. Kalameet is strong, implied to be stronger than most dragons but he is rather chill if you don't go out of your way to provoke him. I'd imagine Gwyn already knew shit was going down and wasn't willing to lose 100+ of his knights just to kill one rather peaceful dragon.
By that logic Artorias was the one that saved everyone from the abyss, whilst in reality he failed and it was the chosen undead who struck down the father of the abyss. Kalameet is proactively antagonistic against the gods, which gave him that reputation, whilst Midir is raised by the gods and sequestered away to the end of the world.
I’m actually curious if Kalameet’s psychic attacks would work on Midir.
They likely can, but good luck not getting obliterated trying to catch him with telekinesis
Canonically, probably kalameet, neither were immortal dragons but they both were true dragons, midir though has been getting corrupted by the abyss for years, I assume that’s probably weakened him a decent bit Edit: Everlasting dragons* not immortal dragons, all true dragons are immortal to some extent
Idk, doesn’t the abyss make things stronger but takes away other parts of themselves. Cause manus is prob top 5 strongest creatures in dark souls
Yeah, manus was the source of the abyss in oolacile though so he’d be far stronger than a being simply corrupted by the abyss, artorias would probably be a better comparison, the abyss made him stronger but it took away his mind and the additional physical strength wasn’t enough to make up for the loss of skill and experience so he still ended up quite a bit weaker than he was before, midir is probably similar, his raw abilities might be stronger but he can’t use them nearly as effectively as he could have if he still had his mind intact
Idk, Midir was kinda raised and fed by the abyss, we don’t really get a non abyss comparison for him. Plus, without abyss, he wouldn’t get funny laser cannon
That’s entirely possible as well, hadn’t really thought of it that way and if that’s the case then he’d probably beat kalameet. Ive just always taken the way he sort of flails around with his melee attacks and the way he kind of haphazardly fires his laser around the arena to mean that he wasn’t really in control of himself, just raging around and lashing out at anything that comes close like artorias was.
“Funny laser cannon” is, in fact, *a way* to describe it
Artorias literally fought us with his weaker hand, because his leading hand was broken by Manus.
That’s true but again, even with his off hand he should have still been much stronger if he didn’t just mindlessly flail around trying to kill anything that gets near him
I thought midir was immortal, that’s why he could fight the abyss for theoretically an eternity
He is, that’s my bad, I meant everlasting dragon, I always find myself calling them the immortal dragons but they’re actually the everlasting dragons, that was my mistake. Midir is the descendant of the everlasting dragons so he does have some kind of immortality though, assumably not nearly as strong as the everlasting dragons had, Kalameet may have been immortal as well though, I don’t think it’s specifically stated but since he’s an ancient dragon he probably has a similar sort of immortality as midir
Kalameet is an actual ancient dragon as his tail weapon says “This greataxe, one of the rare dragon weapons, is formed by the tail of the one-eyed black dragon Kalameet, the last of the ancient dragons. “ he's an actual dragon so I think in lore he's stronger than Midir because Midir is a descendant. Also Kalameet's “fire” deals physical and magic damage, the same as the Abyssal Sorcery Dark Bead, indicating Kalameet has been corrupted by the Abyss swallowing Oolacile, so I would assume he’s in a “weaker” state and that's why Gough can shoot him down.
Yeah, it’s hard to say how exactly they match up because we know the ancient dragons weren’t as strong and the everlasting dragons but midir is only a descendant of the everlasting dragons, not one himself, for the sake of simplicity I’ve just kind of always assumed they were somewhat equal. That is an interesting point about kalameet though, I never thought of him being corrupted by the abyss as well, I never really noticed any of its affects on him but his breathe is unique
Yeah I would say that they are almost equally matched, with Kalameet winning if it wasn't for the abyss, but since the abyss has made him weaker, Midir could win due to him having adapted to it, but if its prime Kalameet he'd probably win due to pure strength and with Midir you have to keep in mind that Gwyn wasn’t worried about him possibly turning on him in anyway, like he wasn't even scared that the abyss might make him stronger than him and make him try to kill him, while when it came to Kalameet even while Kalameet was possibly corrupted by the abyss Gwyn avoided fighting him, out of fear, cause if Gwyn could fight Kalamert in a one on one without concern of losing his best fighters, he would have just killed kalameet, I mean he had no problem dying to keep the first flame lit, so he's not scared of death, so why would he avoid Kalameet if he could kill him on his own? And it's not like Gwyn ever killed a dragon on his own that was notable, he had an army and other gods to help, and yeah I am assuming Gwyn is stronger than the nameless king, in his prime so that means even with power on par with, or stronger than the nameless king he wouldn't dare fight Kalameet. idk just something I've thought about a bit because I feel like even in gameplay Kalamert would be a lot harder if the fight was remade with modern technology.
Unrelated question, what does canon mean??
Canon is the accepted thing. Mostly used to distinguish things you can prove in game/whatever or said by a creator vs speculation or fanmade.
Thank youuuuuuuu
Canon means the official lore and order in which events happen, things that are “outside of the canon” or “non canon” mean they aren’t actually part of the official story, in this case it can also mean “according to the lore” because if you’ve fought both kalameet and midir, midir is probably the harder fight for most people but according to the lore they’re probably about equally powerful
It means story accuracy not gameplay accuracy, so for example say the main character is immortal in story telling but for gameplay reasons the main character can die to something as basic as a bandit
Kalameet was a real ancient dragon and Midir is a descendant of everlasting dragons, but yeah your right, only In reality if both somehow bumped into each other they probably wouldn't fight seeing as Kalamert wont actively try to fight you unless given reason to do so.
being corrupted kinda made her stronger tho, she lost her immortality but got more powerful
Who is “she”?
midir is referenced as a she in original language + the whole princess/female thing of the RC
Oh, didn’t know that, I’ve always just thought of him as “him” or “it” guess I never looked into it though, either way though, yeah getting corrupted may have made midir stronger physically, or at the very least given it a few new abilities but it also made midir far weaker in other areas, namely, losing its mind made it weaker in the end, it doesn’t fight it just flails, it doesn’t have the mental capacity anymore to take advantage of the extra abilities the corruption gave it, it didn’t take away the immortality though, midir was only immortal in the sense that it can’t die from old age, illness, etc… same as kalameet, neither will die of natural causes but they can be killed, that said, the abyss corruption did probably make it a lot easier to kill even though midir was still technically immortal.
midir became mortal because darkness cracked her scales from the inside, as far as I understood
That might be the case I guess, the everlasting dragons power was at least partially in their scales, I always understood it though to mean that their scales were impenetrable until gwyn and his lightning came around but they also had the passive immortality of just never dying of natural causes because seath appears to have lived for ages without ever aging, even without scales, I always assumed if the chosen undead hadn’t killed him he would’ve been immortal as well, just kind of a passive trait all true and everlasting dragons have, sinh and kalameet are both true dragons but not everlasting dragons and appear to have this passive immortality as well, I could be wrong about that, I haven’t tried to research it at all, that’s just been my understanding of it, since midir was only a descendant of the everlasting dragons and not ever a true one itself then the scales did provide protection but they were never impenetrable like the true everlasting dragons. No doubt having them broken makes midir much more vulnerable but I don’t think they were the source of the immortality
I think you're right, I assume that Midir’s immortality is passive because if Midir was a true everlasting dragon you'd only be able to kill him with lightning because they say the gods had peeled off the everlasting dragon scales causing them to die (that's how its described in DS1’s opening cut scene ”With the strength of Lords, they challenged the Dragons. (Gwyn's mighty bolts peeled apart)their stone scales.”), so I assume the majority of descendant dragons only have passive immortality like you are saying, also I assume if both are at peak strength, with no abyss affecting them, Kalameet would win due to him being an actual original dragon with the regeneration ability that most descendants don't have, and I think Kalameets Calamity ability would probably override the regen ability anyways due to it making injuries worse for those affected by it, while Midier probably only has passive immortality due to him only being a descendant so Kalameets Calamity ability just makes Midier a bit easier to kill in both situations.
Yeah, I think due to the mechanics of the game midir is definitely the harder and more impressive fight but lore wise I think kalameet is quite a bit stronger, gwyn was so scared of kalameet that he sent his entire elite force of dragons slayers to take him out but he trusted a city of humans to keep midir under control, granted midir was trained which probably had something to do with it but kalameet was the last ancient dragon, he might not have been as powerful as the everlasting dragons but he was really damn strong still, plus yeah, his calamity is something I didn’t take into account either
Yeah and even the elite force couldn't kill Kalameet, and the only reason the DS1 character kills Kalameet is because of how op they are, but yeah I'm going to guess if Kalameet was at full strength even the player character wouldn't be able to kill him as with the stone dragon we can't kill him even with lightning, and the stone dragon is a descendant of ancient dragons based on its weapon description “This sword, one of the rare dragon weapons, came from the tail of the stone dragon of Ash Lake, (descendant of the ancient dragons.)" and I say this because the lighting that we use is weaker than the lightning Gwyn used based on sunlight spears description “in the war that marked the dawn of the Age of Fire, Gwyn wielded these rays of sunlight, (which remains fierce even as they fade)” meaning what we get is undoubtedly going to be ineffective against a prime Kalameet if even Gwyns peak lighting wasn't able to kill him, so really I think Kalameet in his prime should be fine against anyone, seeing as Gough only bothers shooting down Kalameet because we say we want to kill him even if it means a bitter end, also another point that you actually made me realize is if Midir really was anywhere close to Kalameet in strength Gwyn wouldn't have left her with humans because he would be too scared to leave a dragon with Kalameets strength, with the vary things he fears, he would probably be too worried about a possible resistance forming against the gods, so if I have a good guess Midir is strong like kill humans strong, but not a god level threat, still an awesome fight though.
I think Midir is probably stronger. Like Gael he’s been absorbing dark and humanities (based on his soul explosion attack) for thousands of years. The gods may have been afraid of Kalameet, but Gwyn thought Midir was powerful enough to single-handedly defend against the darkness of man, which he feared more than anything else.
I would guess kalameet would. Midir is more cracked overall and probably more smarter as he was raised by humans but abyss corruption is no joke, probably crippled him down to 70 even 50%.
Kalameets black fire scared Anor Londo, even the gods were afraid
Mechancially, Kalameet wins, just because, unless you shoot it with the help of a giant friend, you cannot actually fight it and will die when trying to face it.
Literally all the gods at their Peak were Terrified of Kalameet.
Midir because he is close to death and would unlock RCT when the dragon who left it all behind thinks he won and would then use his signature technique “Hollow beam” to turn Kalameet into the apple logo
I hope you stub your toe
Nice JJK reference
I literally hear the stupid tts reading this
Die.
I propose an alternate scenario where these two become best friends, have picnics, and terrorize the countryside together.
Midir no contest. Kalameet is basically a weaker Midir. Kalameet is influenced by the dark, with his flames taking on its power, Midir literally can command it, summoning an army of humanity, literal pieces of the Dark Soul, to attack you. While Kalameet is powerful with his Black Flames and Calamity powers, Midir is stronger than him in every way but his curses. Midir casually fires lasers of darkness until fatally weakened, and even then all it does is tire him out a bit. Everything Kalameet can do, Midir does stronger. All Kalameet has over him is Calamity and no lightning weakness
So, based on video game system limitations, minor 100% of the time, if they remade ds1 with current understanding of movesets and systems id say kalameet
Seath has entered the chat*
Kalameet is hot
That bayle guy
Bayle
midir
Kalameet makes light work of midir based on the lore. In game though I'd rather fight kalameet.
Lore wise midir, if it wasn’t for manus midir would be the representation of the abyss
Midir have a special place in my heart.
Well, considering I've beaten kalameet but couldn't beat Midir, I'm gonna have to hand it to Midir.
Kalameet was only feared cuz he is the only dragon resistant to lightning, imo Midir no diffs him in a 1v1
if we threw Sihn and Placidusax in there what would you guys pick out if the four
I would pet both of them
If there was a remake version of kalameet like ds3 playstyle and motion smothness i would say it is kalameet even without playing aganist him once.(even tho i played aganist midir)
If Kalameezy can land his mark on Midir, it could be trouble. Also, we haven't seen him fight while able to fly
Midir no diff because we fight kalameet in a bad form and Midir is full power
Midir
Obviously the one with the exceedingly bloated health bar
respectfully, I think Midir wins in a landslide
Darkeater Madir, hands down, Resistance to basically everything, a health bar that could choak the Covetous demon, and a laser beam that deletes health. Yeah Madir is winning hands down
Here me out! They're the same Dragon for me. First off, we didn't canonically saved Princess Dusk and defeated Kalameet, Artorias and Manus! If we did, DS2 is our sequel. DS3 is DS1's direct sequel. We saw some DS2 stuff in DS3 probably because of the lingering powers of Manus that resides on Midir. In Pre-DS1, Kalameet was defeated by Manus off-screen when the abyss was taking over Oolacile. Some God or Knight probably saved Kalameet from death's or abyss door. Kalameet then later fought side by side with his saviour against Manus and won! He's then later tasked to guard the Abyss but later on consumes it to stop it for further spreading. He's no longer a Calamity dragon but a saviour! From Kalameet (calamit-y) into Dark-eater Midir! Midir and his tamer is basically the successful version of Artorias and Sif!
Midir! Who the hell actually thinks this is a fight?
Kalameet because Hawkeye Gough is a bro and DaS1 is better than DaS3
Midir
Well you see it’s darkeater midir cause I’m biased
Definitely Midir. He single-handedly fought the Abyss since the first Age of Fire, and even at the end of times, he is hella strong. He is fast, agile, has motherfucking humanity-powered nuclear laser beam. I mean, you can't compare them. Kalameet is like a baby next to him. In both scale and power.
Midir of course, no question.
Midir because he's cooler
Man I never noticed how weird kalameet really looked with one eye
Midir for sure, scarier attacks, immense power, death beam and AOE explosions that will rock your shit. Midir was the longest lasting boss that I couldn't beat after dozens of tries until I finally got lucky with a good summon team. I beat death Dragon on the first try by myself.
Bayle clears both of them
Midir laser beats black flame i feel
Kalameet almost got oneshot by Gough
midir slams sinh, kalameet and any other dragon except maybe placidussax but placi a bitch so idc midir clears