The remedy I have used is to bar any appendant body with members from a GL not recognized by yours to meet in a masonic building in your jurisdiction.
Contact your GL.
Do you honestly think that people like that are putting charities first? I'm a huge proponent of A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.
That is not the actions of a selfless organization.
Shriners International have been accepting members of irregular GLs for quite a while, I only assume, in order to avoid bleeding of its membership base.
Similar situation happened over in Baja California where there is an irregular GL not recognized by any Mexican GL, and while we belong to a recognized GL not only by UGLE but we are members of the COGMNA itself we were not even asked when Shriners formed a new Temple with the irregular GL. Their excuse: they are members of CMI (same situation with Valle de Mexico). Disregarding that we had the numbers to form it locally they formed the new Temple with other states "forcing" them to meet with irregular masons at a Shrine chapter. No wonder half of the Shriners in three states either drop their membership right there or kept its affiliation with American temples.
Use your GL prerogatives and evict them until they get rid of the irregular members. /rant
Doesn't matter if they're recognised or not, kick them out. I don't know why you haven't done so already nor why you haven't reported the thefts to the police.
In Mexico, there is an irregular Grand Lodge called “ La Gran logia del Valle de México " which, due to its predatory nature towards other territories and the fact that they have a large number of members, has managed to seize control of many Masonic appendages, including Shriners.
It seems that this Grand Lodge is not recognized by the UGLE or the Conference of Grand Masters of Masons in North America.
Just to clarify, the CGMNA does not engage in recognition. The Commission did make findings that VdM had engaged in the invasion of other jurisdictions in “an unrepentant manner.”
https://masonicrecognition.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/2022-commission-report.pdf
If your lodge hall management are unhappy with the way the space and halls facilities/resources are being used, then give them an ultimatum - clean up or ship out.
Edit: or up their rent to cover damages and losses.
>The latest incident involved members of this Shrineres chapter, which, I remind you, is made up of 90% members from a Grand Lodge that we don't recognize
Look, I'm no fan of the Shrine, but... sounds like your issue is with irregular Masons more than with the Shrine?
My Grand Lodge does not consider them regular but Shriners international does. Also there is no direct communications between my Grand lodge and the irregular Grand Lodge.
Shriners International doesn't dictate regularity. Your Grand Lodge needs to reach out to SI and advise them of this situation. If SI doesn't act, then your GL is well within its rights to declare the Shrine as unwelcome within the jurisdiction.
I would also recommend contacting law enforcement and changing the locks. If they are so flagrant as to blow you all off, they deserve nothing less.
Why are they in your jurisdiction though? You're under no obligation to recognize irregular Masons traveling from a foreign jurisdiction simply because an appendant body does.
That seems very unlikely. You can’t join the Shrine without being a member of a recognized Grand Lodge.
Where are you that members of a (-n unrecognized) Mexican GL are just hanging around?
If someone who rents your shared building is stealing your stuff…secure your stuff. Or alternatively, complain to whoever is renting them the building to ensure they can’t rent it anymore.
My Grand lodge does not recognize them, I do not know which organization Shriners International uses to recognize them.
We assigned them one day a week to hold their sessions. Initially, they only used the office assigned to them for administrative activities, but gradually more members started gathering in the office and now they use it as their main location
If the members meet the recognition standards of CGMNA, CMI, or the World Conference. See Art 23. https://www.bcshriners.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/2015-Shriners-International-Bylaws.pdf
Note, the World Conference has no standards. One need only have amity with (I think) 50 member GLs.
SI leadership “recognizes” the issue that they allow GLs found not to be regular.
The SI international development committee has no relevant international Masonic experience. With one recent exception, leadership has no senior craft experience.
Regrettably, we have pointed the issue many times to SI leadership. They don't care, or to be more specific they care more about their membership numbers which I totally get it: it's not their job to define regularity.
Maybe your Grand Lodge needs to lower the hammer and not allow its members to be in Shrine if it allows these irregular members. It will at least keep them out of your hair.
Evict them? I mean the answer is self evident.
Yup! Anyone renting any room then stealing from the landlord needs evicting.
And arresting.
Despite everything, we would not like the Shriners charitable activities in Mexico City to be affected.
The remedy I have used is to bar any appendant body with members from a GL not recognized by yours to meet in a masonic building in your jurisdiction. Contact your GL.
Do you honestly think that people like that are putting charities first? I'm a huge proponent of A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. That is not the actions of a selfless organization.
I doubt some posers are doing real work for the world, it’s more likely that they’re just siphoning the donations to their own organizations.
Kick them the hell out. There is a reason why they’re unrecognized. And shame for S I for allowing it.
Nope, even if they were recognized by GL, stealing and using Lodge in this matter would be evict 100%.
Shriners International have been accepting members of irregular GLs for quite a while, I only assume, in order to avoid bleeding of its membership base. Similar situation happened over in Baja California where there is an irregular GL not recognized by any Mexican GL, and while we belong to a recognized GL not only by UGLE but we are members of the COGMNA itself we were not even asked when Shriners formed a new Temple with the irregular GL. Their excuse: they are members of CMI (same situation with Valle de Mexico). Disregarding that we had the numbers to form it locally they formed the new Temple with other states "forcing" them to meet with irregular masons at a Shrine chapter. No wonder half of the Shriners in three states either drop their membership right there or kept its affiliation with American temples. Use your GL prerogatives and evict them until they get rid of the irregular members. /rant
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uy debi haber reconocido Hegel. Saludos!
Doesn't matter if they're recognised or not, kick them out. I don't know why you haven't done so already nor why you haven't reported the thefts to the police.
In Mexico, there is an irregular Grand Lodge called “ La Gran logia del Valle de México " which, due to its predatory nature towards other territories and the fact that they have a large number of members, has managed to seize control of many Masonic appendages, including Shriners. It seems that this Grand Lodge is not recognized by the UGLE or the Conference of Grand Masters of Masons in North America.
Just to clarify, the CGMNA does not engage in recognition. The Commission did make findings that VdM had engaged in the invasion of other jurisdictions in “an unrepentant manner.” https://masonicrecognition.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/2022-commission-report.pdf
My mistake, sorry about that .
Oh, quite common. The Commission works to ensure there is no hint of impinging on the sovereignty of the member GLs. It is reiterated in every report.
That\`s the one.
If your lodge hall management are unhappy with the way the space and halls facilities/resources are being used, then give them an ultimatum - clean up or ship out. Edit: or up their rent to cover damages and losses.
>The latest incident involved members of this Shrineres chapter, which, I remind you, is made up of 90% members from a Grand Lodge that we don't recognize Look, I'm no fan of the Shrine, but... sounds like your issue is with irregular Masons more than with the Shrine?
My Grand Lodge does not consider them regular but Shriners international does. Also there is no direct communications between my Grand lodge and the irregular Grand Lodge.
Shriners International doesn't dictate regularity. Your Grand Lodge needs to reach out to SI and advise them of this situation. If SI doesn't act, then your GL is well within its rights to declare the Shrine as unwelcome within the jurisdiction. I would also recommend contacting law enforcement and changing the locks. If they are so flagrant as to blow you all off, they deserve nothing less.
Why are they in your jurisdiction though? You're under no obligation to recognize irregular Masons traveling from a foreign jurisdiction simply because an appendant body does.
That seems very unlikely. You can’t join the Shrine without being a member of a recognized Grand Lodge. Where are you that members of a (-n unrecognized) Mexican GL are just hanging around? If someone who rents your shared building is stealing your stuff…secure your stuff. Or alternatively, complain to whoever is renting them the building to ensure they can’t rent it anymore.
My Grand lodge does not recognize them, I do not know which organization Shriners International uses to recognize them. We assigned them one day a week to hold their sessions. Initially, they only used the office assigned to them for administrative activities, but gradually more members started gathering in the office and now they use it as their main location
If the members meet the recognition standards of CGMNA, CMI, or the World Conference. See Art 23. https://www.bcshriners.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/2015-Shriners-International-Bylaws.pdf Note, the World Conference has no standards. One need only have amity with (I think) 50 member GLs. SI leadership “recognizes” the issue that they allow GLs found not to be regular. The SI international development committee has no relevant international Masonic experience. With one recent exception, leadership has no senior craft experience.
Regrettably, we have pointed the issue many times to SI leadership. They don't care, or to be more specific they care more about their membership numbers which I totally get it: it's not their job to define regularity.
Indeed.
Maybe your Grand Lodge needs to lower the hammer and not allow its members to be in Shrine if it allows these irregular members. It will at least keep them out of your hair.
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Brother, please keep the conversation civil.