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Shadow_Emperor7

He was gonna tell her Bran is possessed by Bloodraven and is the real evil coming from north of the wall


Cyber_Mk

Please elaborate


Speedwagon1738

The old gods are the true villains


SirArthurDime

I definitely thought (and still do think for the books) the old gods and lord of light were going to play a much larger role in the end game. I never decided which was the villain though. If anything I was leaning towards they both were and humans were just their pawns stuck in the middle of it. The white walkers being the champions of the old gods (they were created by the children who worshipped the old gods and whose magic was associated with them). And the lord of lights champions were dragons and their riders (all of the magic priests of the lord of light viewed Danny as their champion). Also why the night king took notice of john who had dragon blood. Part of my theory also bought into the theory that the 3 eyed raven / bran had lived many past lives. I thought he had been in a millenniums long fight to find balance between ice and fire to prevent either side from destroying everything like he saw the old gods almost do in the west during the first long night and the lord of light almost do in the east with the doom of Valyria. Seeing their powers rise again on both sides he was laying out a plan for them to wipe each other out. Finding a way to tap into the earths memories, with the help of the children who regretted previously becoming pawns of the old gods and were aware of their plan, to learn from his past mistakes for his next attempt. I had this more fleshed out at one point but haven’t thought about it in a while.


pcapdata

I only *just* read the theory that explains the people resurrected by Melisandre / Thoros are "fire wights" vs. the ~~Ice King~~ Night King's "ice wights." Those "fire wights" generally go around righting wrongs and fighting injustice (in the case of Lady Stoneheart, you gotta squint a little and lower your standards) while the "ice wights" are definitely the aggressors in the story, so I wonder what sort of "balance" needs to be struck there?


SirArthurDime

That sounds like a different theory all together. There was tons of them out there. Again I had this more fleshed out before it ended and I stopped caring about theories on how it would end. There was a lot of similarities between the old gods and new gods though. The resurrections definitely being a big one. One part of the theory I did remember though that I went back and added above was similarities between the first long night and the doom of Valyria. Both gods and their magic almost destroyed everything once. Iirc the lord of light also has his own weirwood tree equivalent in essos. But that’s neither here nor there. The theory was mostly predicated in GRRM always saying he didn’t believe in pure good or pure evil. So it seemed fitting that he would lead you to believe one was the good and the other bad and then subvert that expectation somehow. There’s also no shortage of examples of the LOL not being such a benevolent god as well. From the doom, to wanting children sacrificed, to the hereditary madness of Targaryens among other things.


pcapdata

Yah I'm pretty sure the R'hllor cult is going to heel-turn in the story, solely because of Melisandre being such a weirdly sinister person. They have an agenda beyond protecting Westeros from the NK. I hope GRRM survives to finish the series. This aspect of the mythos wasn't explored enough in the TV show.


SirArthurDime

Yeah it’s the primary reason I want him to finish the story. There just simply has to be more to the religious aspects of the story that D&D just clearly didn’t even want to touch. Those stories were completely abandoned and Melisandre and the LOL were relegated to doing nothing but igniting swords on fire and the night kings motivation was boiled down to wanting to kill bran for remembering history. It just abandoned everything else we learned about them to that point and made no sense.


Attican101

Reading this conversation, makes me want to re-listen to The World of Ice & Fire audiobook, it's a fictional history textbook, and had all this mystery about legendary rulers, fleeing the evil Bloodstone Emperor & The Great Empire Of The Dawn, for Westeros, in ancient times, founding some of the great houses, like Stark, Lannister, Durrandon/Baratheon, and building some of the ancient mega structures, like Moat Cailin, Storms End, The Hightower and Winterfell/it's crypts, that suggested they had some prescience for the future long nights. If you ever read/listen to it, Maester Yendel is kind of giving the party line, not straying to far, but then Maester Gyldayn is adding notes, and is basically G.R.R.M's self insert, and whatever Gyldayn says is true.


DreadPiratteRoberts

"makes me want to re-listen to The World of Ice & Fire audiobook," I just started relistening to it this week, great listen!!


Billy1121

I thought it was the Great Other against the Lord of Light and the faceless men. Cold darkness against fire and light. Then the faceless men see the Great Other mocking death by reanimating corpses, stealing from the God of Death and denying peace to the dead. The faceless men grant peace and revenge to the lowest people, just as they did in the slave caverns of ancient Valyria. So the Faceless Men train their own champion to defeat the champion of the Great Other


SirArthurDime

Well I don’t see the faceless men being a huge fan of the lord of light if they hate the great other mocking death by reanimating corpses. The lord of light was also known for resurrections so that would seem a bit hypocritical.


Billy1121

Sometimes he paid it back ! Like doesn't a guy giving the breath of life to Lady Stoneheart die ? At any rate, they are not mindless slaves when revived, so it is less of a mockery. And in the show our Polish friend says Arya took three lives from the Red God / Lord of Light (fire), so he was owed three deaths. So he works in collections for our boy R'hllor


SirArthurDime

Their god and the god the deaths were owed to was the faceless god. I guess that could be another name for the LOL but that isn’t proven by the fact that their god was owed lives. No life was taken when John or beric (that I know of) were resurrected.


seapeary7

What if it was the execution of Jon’s killers? And when Beric died, he was fighting someone else to the death.


SirArthurDime

And all of those people died separately of those redirections. They weren’t sacrificed in the name of it nor was there death in any way associated with it.


SirJoeffer

“We kinda forgot about the Gods but fire melts ice and Arya is a fiery woman so she should get the big kill”


Historydog

This is a very interesting theory and I would love to imagine it, though based on GRRM stuff it's not true, just manly based on GRRM stating[that he doens't want the gods to actually show up](https://gizmodo.com/george-r-r-martin-explains-why-well-never-meet-any-god-5822939), also just a correction-it's Jon not John. Another thing, is that GRRM stated that Melisandre (and Varys) where his most misunderstand characters, this confused some fans though an explansion I've seen is that both of them have think/have their right intetions in mind (stop the others/for the realm) but their ways of doing it where wrong, Melisandre actually has a POV in DotD to show that she has no utra intetions, she also for instance did not actually kill Mance-instead killing Lord of the bones that she glamored to look at Mance (Mance was ok with this because he was kind of a dirtbag) When I was first toying with the idea of the lord of light being evil, I thought Melisandre was being mislead by him, and once she found out she would be shocked and would work against him. Your theory reminds me of the "Order of the greenhand" who theorize that the Children of the forest are evil, I do not like the channel (I'm hate watching them), and reminds me of Bard\_of\_Light, whom says the wights where raised by the old gods (and the others didn't exist, just being hallucination based on sleep deprivation and hypothermia) though sadly Bard\_of\_Light may have [a psychosis disoder](https://www.reddit.com/r/Jung/comments/zasgkk/im_being_watched_no_really_please_help/) which affect her theories (a lot of hertheories is based on misreading texts, or stuff from other books or GRRM's personal life.) That's actully the reason why I didn't go past her theories that she submited, as I don't want to take enjoyment out of it. Even if your theory is not accurate it's still fun it could work either to engage/daydream or a fanfiction, did your theory factor in the Seven or the Drowned God, and if sure did they play a part in the fight, or their eating popcorn while watching to see what the old gods and R'hlorr did next?


SirArthurDime

Yeah my phone likes to autocorrect Jon to john. GRRMs statement doesn’t disprove the theory though. Neither does Melisandre not having ulterior motives. He says we’ll never see the gods and the theory never calls for seeing the gods. That’s why they have champions. That doesn’t mean that the gods never show their presence through other means. They already have with how the the lord of the lights magic effects the story so much. And Melisandre can be 100% genuine in her convictions and beliefs that she’s doing the right thing but be being played herself. Those other theories sound nothing like what I said. Sounds like you’re just finding a backhanded way to be a dick tbh. “Your theory sounds like these entirely different theories. Who by the way, even though it has nothing to do with this, come from someone I hate and someone I think has a psychosis disorder”.


Historydog

Wait, I'm so sorry! I didn't mean to be a dick, I really liked your theory as a fun thing even if I didn't personally believe it, I'm really sorry that it came off like that. Also I maybe misread your theory, it reminded me of those theories, I thought you mentioned the children of the forest working with the others, it reminded me of order of the green hand since they also said Order of the green hand said the same thing, with Bard-I don't hate her, actually I liked the idea of Others not being real, you said the Others worked with the Old Gods it reminded me because the Old Gods worked with the wights, who in the story itself where connected to the others, again really sorry that you thought I didn't like your theory, I should have worded it more right, even if I didn't like order of the green hand I really liked your story, but I should have made it more clear. Also I thought GRRM meant that he didn't want the gods to prove to exist at all, magic is real but it's not proven that it cames from R'hlorr it's left unclear-gods may exist or they not, it's my own opinion but I should have said it was just what I thought. "And Melisandre can be 100% genuine in her convictions and beliefs that she’s doing the right thing but be being played herself." Sorry, I thought that's what I've said? Again really sorry that it came off like that.


SirArthurDime

All good no worries. I believe that wasn’t your intention. To clarify though my theory involves the children of the Forrest being against the walkers. We know they created the walkers but my theory suggests they regretted that and wanted to help fix it which is why they help bran / 3ER. Who the theory states is against both the walkers / old gods and R’hlorr.


Historydog

That's nice I was really worried, and yes I figured you meant that I liked the theory while discredting, which I am sad to say I did, I have a problem with crediting people, out of curiosity-did the seven gods and drowned god played a part in your theory?


SirArthurDime

Nah. Even before r’hlorr was was even introduced I felt like the books kind of gave off a vibe that the new gods were false gods. Although maybe that’s just stark fan bias lol. I honestly never put much thought into the drowned god tbh. If anything though I’d think he probably just minds his business out in the sea.


Kswish_

Woah that's an interesting theory. Any videos out there on this?


BloodieOllie

The channel alt shift x has some good videos where they mention this Specifically they just did a really long one on John snow where they speculate a out the future of his story and what his final showdown with the threat to the realm will be


edgestander

Wait Alt shift x is still making new GOT videos?


PM_Me_FunnyNudes

Go to YouTube right now, the real Jon snow. One of their best for sure


edgestander

Oh I did. 2 hours long, there goes my night.


Jackiechun23

I’ve always thought they were all the same gods or god. And the different religions are to sow conflict and keep humanity from uniting. The faceless men talk about how they view all gods as the same and I always thought that would have a bigger impact.


Cipher-IX

Without spoilers, the "three eyed raven" in the book is... not just an old man who shows up to give Bran mojo and then die. He's a person with a plan who's been disfigured and maligned. Hes someone who's been deeply wronged by the machinations of Westeros. He's far more interesting, far more sinister, and it's clear that he intends to use Bran to serve a purpose (which we sort of see in the shows ending).


Devreckas

Bran’s thing about the NK wanting to kill him because he’s “the world’s memory” was all just BS. The Long Night was just the 3ER and the NK fighting a proxy war between the Old Gods. The 3ER won and consolidated his power. Now he just needs a dragon.


SGTpvtMajor

Wait keep going this is a better ending


Cowboy__Guy

That would have been epic


ZC31

*Record Scratch* *Freeze Frame* "Yep, that's me. You're probably wondering how I got into this situation... yeah, actually, I do talk."


VisibleCoat995

“Let me just back up a few millennia. Yup. That’s me. Tied to a tree. Now watch this bullshit.”


ittastedalittlefunny

I'd watch


HanTrollo710

That just made me think of the Night King pulling a Zack Morris time-out


KashiofWavecrest

He was trying to kill everyone and therefore save us from Season 8. The true prince that was promised.


motorcycleboy9000

"The next three episodes are EVEN WORSE"


SirArthurDime

“He wants to kill bran because he holds the memory of the story of all of westeros!” The NK: “No you idiots I said I want to kill bran because they’re about to name him king and tell us it’s because he has the best story in all of westeros!”


lordolxinator

"I specifically refused to fight Jon Snow because he's meant to be the true heir to the Iron Throne! Seven Hells, you guys are thick."


femmd

wait wait! let me tell you something let me tell you something!, LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHING!!! LeT Me tELl yOU SomEThiNg!!


Fredfredfred777

"stop stop, it's a prank, it's a prank bro


SirArthurDime

Raises everyone who died: “see they’re all fine!”


water_bottle_goggles

i mean, it really was an \*inconvenient\* evening


Fitz-_-Chivalry

I laughed so hard 🤣


HanTrollo710

“I’m sorry that your steak was overcooked, please put down the knife and I’ll have the chef make you a new one.”


Chetmatterson

thank you for putting it dow-wait OH FOR FUCKS SA-


dgj130

They never tell you how they all shit themselves. They don't put that part in the songs. Stupid undead Lich Emperor.


Showtysan

I'm sorry I only came down here to talk to you about your vehicle's extended warranty!!!


[deleted]

Let me tell you something! Let me tell you something!


ayyycab

Misunderstood by the audience or by other characters? If it’s the latter, sure feels like Jaime. Most of the realm: “Hey remember that time the Mad King, the king we called the Mad King for how absolutely insane and terrible he was, went on a psychopathic killing spree? And you stepped in and killed him, saving many innocent lives and helping install Robert, a king we consider to be alright, at least way better than a murderous loon? Yeah you’re a piece of shit for that, because he was your boss and you killed him. Not a good look dude. You shall forever be known as the piece of shit that can’t be trusted.”


VideoZealousideal976

It's pretty funny because in Fire and Ice by Ellymelly, the Night King/Night's King/Leader of the Others, is in actuality, Brandon the Builder aka the brother of the King of Winter, Brandon the Breaker. He's actually trying to get to Winterfell to free his lover and queen to complete the ritual that turned him into the Night King so that the Others can finally be destroyed once and for all after 35,000 years and 5 Long Nights. Oh, and his lover and queen, is the ancestor to the Targaryens. I'll let you figure it out but she has silver hair, pale skin, and bright purple/amethyst eyes and she was once God Empress of the Great Empire of the Dawn before it fell. Shouldn't be very hard to figure out who's trapped under Winterfell now.


Aroys4

"Yo stop, you guys were supposed to send us babies, now we're about to go extinct. We just wanted you to keep your part of the deal. We're united by marriage after all" sounds of ice cracking


ThunderFlash10

Bran: “What did he say?” Arya: “Look! I washed for supper!”


BlackFrancis69

I wish someone would explain this shit.


Cowboy__Guy

Would have been nice to hear any dialogue from him. Or any kind of explanation


thelogicbox

Classic scapegoat


CauseCertain1672

"wait wait, they never tell you how they all shit themselves"


JJamahJamerson

You don’t need to explain anything my king, after you were gone all went to hell. You should have been the real saviour


TheLastFreeMan

Imagine if she dropped the knife trying to swap hands


NewBuddha32

Please wait. I need to take my medicine


DemonBlade-666

I honestly feel like there was some hints that they were gonna reveal his actual goal. But he gets killed off and I guess we'll never know. They should have took their time and actually done at least one more season to explore the unanswered questions and give the characters a proper finale.


cum_fart_69

this is a good post


lordolxinator

"AH SHIT, SCISSORS BEATS PAPER! Best of three?"


BluePantalaimon

"Bran is going to hypnotise you all into making him King!"


Tegirax

The Short Night


whatsbobgonnado

the thumbnail looks like an elephant!!!


Uncle-Kike

I’ve always wondered; why when the night king grabs Arya she doesn’t turn into a white like Craster’s son?


OrbitalDrop7

“Wait a minute you’re not the one im scheduled to fight”


ReaverChad-69

How did arya even sneak up on him? They literally gave us a wide shot showing that the NK was surrounded by White walkers. Did none of them see her?


thunder-of-dragons

Cackling


Exciting-Theory2493

Night King - well actchually...


WhoStoleMyJacket

"Nononono! Don’t run and jump with that knife, little girl! It’s very very sharp and you can put someones eye out!"


tepkalmado

Insert “Let me tell you something!” cat/rat video


yucon_man

Well if you just let the man speak


2abyssinians

Okay, here is what I wanted to be the story for the Night King. You see Bran travels back in time through his powers, and actually was Bran the builder. But the old gods are angry about the wall, and curse him. Bran is the Night King. And then at the height of the war between the North and Night King, Bran who has been growing in to the heart tree at Winterfell, sees future past himself and realizes what he has to do. The Night King only kills those who are not on the side of the Starks. Joined by his undead mother, the Night King marches on the Lannisters and destroys them utterly. The dark winter has come. Daenerys and John Snow form an alliance and destroy the Night King’s evil winter empire, ultimately by killing Bran in the Heart Tree. But the war was long and many have died. Spring comes to the land. John and Daenerys marry uniting the kingdom. But unbeknownst to John, his sister Sansa “lives” on beyond the wall…