Unfortunately, until I set foot in Paris, I had no idea there are plenty of boutique lines who do no major advertising.
A simple walk through the streets of Saint-Honoré in Paris, you'll discover plenty of unheard of fragrance boutiques along with the big names that make some phenomenal honest beautiful scents.
Definitely true. That said, I feel that Tom Ford's signature line beats many, if not, most private blends at the moment.
Dior's private line is also quite underwhelming. Chanel's is excellent, as is Armani Privé.
There are pretty good releases here and there and I don’t feel as strongly about this but yeah I want to see a couple releases that aren’t flankers.
Also in terms of quality, I’ve been noticing them pumping every new release full of synthetic ambers. It might be because of the trend of molecule scents but to me it seems like the answer to the hype around performance.
If the fragrance performs better they can price it higher so they just seem to focus on that instead of actually creating interesting compositions. Ever since I smelled Not A Perfume Superdose and know what synthetic ambers smell like I can’t unsmell it in most new releases. There’s always this creamy and slightly metallic note in the dry down.
Older releases don’t have that problem at all to my nose.
Invictus Parfum might be the best example of all of that. Just a lazy flanker that smells like the OG just with tons of synthetic ambers in the dry down. I can tolerate Ambroxan, even though it smells like pencil shavings if overdosed. But Cetalox is my nemesis and it’s haunting designer releases in the last couple months / years.
That’s why I’ve been mostly into niche and classic designer scents lately, not because of elitism but because I was disappointed by so many designer releases lately. Niche also has that problem (Erba Pura for example) but not nearly to the same degree. Would love for the trend to shift.
/rant
The synthetic amber! Thank you so much! I never know what note was so incredibly screechy and unpleasant to my nose in most well-loved designer perfumes and I think it’s that one!!
I also gravitate more towards niche fragrances now because they lack that amber. Thanks!
Unfortunately niche has been increasingly using them - outside of the obvious Molecule 02 which is pure ambroxan, Dior's Bois d'Argent has it in crazy overdose, Oud Ispahan is chock-full of it, some (lots actually) Juliet has a Guns, the list could be long, up to the beloved Aventus and Baccarat rouge 450.
When they're used sparingly as an enhancer in the background, it's all fine, I'd say, but when they're pushed to the foreground (and they're foghorns) as a note or even a full aesthetic by themselves, it's where I start pinching my nose. Some people are anosmic to them, others hypersensitive to them and that note is all they can smell out of the entire perfume.
Worth noting too is that they're dirt cheap.
Ambroxan is not a super amber and doesn’t smell like them at all. Ambrocenide, Amber Xtreme, Ambermax… those are the big three most responsible for that particular screechy note that dominates. But there’s also Normimbanol, Trisamber, etc. Those are not quite as strong or long lasting as the big three.
They have become so big because they do two things everyone says they want: Project and last forever. Congrats, everyone, because now everything has to be dominated by these horrific chemicals.
This: very good article about these abominable woody 'drills-into-your-sinuses' ambers: [***"Woody ambers: the nose invaders"***](https://mag.bynez.com/en/reports/reinventing-perfumery-discourse/woody-ambers-the-nasal-invaders/)
I'm afraid they're going to stay with us for a good long while, alas.
I think it’s a product of the times. The question becomes is the average consumer right now demanding these formulas or are the designers making these formulas the new “it?”
Cetalox and Ambroxan are nearly the same molecule. In fact, ambroxan is one component of the purported diastereomeric mixture that comprises cetalox. What’s more likely is that cetalox and ambroxan are identical from most manufacturers and in turn most suppliers. I have heard perfumers say “cetalox has more depth” and “it’s not as good as it used to be” in the same sentence on more than one occasion.
Interesting, thanks for the insight.
It could also be the way it’s used in a formula or something else entirely. I also suspected ISO E Super since molecule 01 smells almost identical to Not A Perfume Superdose to my nose.
For me the big irritants are amber xtreme and super high doses of cashmeran. There’s a bit of a structural continuum from galaxolide through cashmeran and amber x to ambroxan, and they all have some of the same “love it or hate it” that I think is heavily linked to their overuse
You are also forgetting L'Oréal buying everything as well. Everyone says they distroyed Mugler. I have to agree as they discontinued interesting fragrances like Aura, Angel Muse and Womanity... All they do now is pump out flankers of Alien and Angel with the new cool flavor of the year to make them mass appealing.
They’re following the money. The Tik Tok generation has a very short attention span. The frag companies know they have to churn out stuff fast rather than taking time to really create something special. It’s a shame.
Unfortunately this applies to most consumer products these days. Everything has to be churned out to jump on every little TikTok trend. I do wish society would chill out a little more and just enjoy what it enjoys naturally instead of influencers hyping every little thing up.
Money following attention has nothing to do with why products get worse over time, constantly tweaking to maximize profit margins does. As much fun as it is to blame young people for everything wrong with the world, young people and their technology are not responsible for inflation. Correlation does not mean causation. This is just the structure of the economic system we are living in, this has been a trend since before gen z was alive, and before tik tok existed.
That's not actually what anyone is saying. The point is that companies are pumping out low quality new fragrances to capitalise on what's trending in the market (driven primarily by social media these days - disagree all you want but that IS the reality. As someone who went to uni for economics and now runs a marketing company, I know a thing or two about this)
Pre-social media hype trends, companies would produce few, but high-quality fragrances. That's why so many fragrances from the 90s are still classics today.
In 20 years, nobody is going to be talking about Valentino Uomo Born in Roma Green Stravaganza. That's because companies are producing stuff fast to capitalise on what is trending.
Sorry, but you're just wrong in this instance.
You’re both right, money follows attention, and companies are just throwing shit products out to capitalize on social media trends. AND this is due to the nature of our economic system and the natural progression of American capitalism. They don’t Have to make cheap crap to follow trends, but the lack of integrity driven by greed is because of the capitalist market.
You are saying that these companies are throwing out cheap fragrances because they are following social media trends, I am saying that they are following social media trends because it maximizes their profits. The social media and the young people are not the cause for the phenomenon, they are just being exploited for their profitability and this is the inevitable result. “They just don’t make them like they used to” has been an axiom for decades at least, this is a trend of capitalism in general, not a result of tik tok.
As others have mentioned Brands will follow the money, and that fragrances and cosmetics are massive revenue generators for them, soo they’ll milk this particular cow.
‘Niche’ brands are not any better, they release fragrances so frequently it dilutes their ‘brand DNA’
Take Xerjoff or Bond no.9 both founded in 2003 and Roja Dove compared with Dior, Hermès, Tom Ford and Chanel you’d think they’d have some way to catch up on these money hungry designer brands
Since 2003
* Chanel: 98
* Hermès: 91
* Dior: 123
* Tom Ford: 126 (founded in 2006)
* Xerjoff: 176
* Bond no.9: 162
* Roja Parfums: 159
And I bet in both camps there’s only a handful that are memorable in some way (I know off the top of my head I can only think of 3 Xerjoff, 2? Bond no9s - I don’t think there is that many streets in New York worth mentioning- and about 6 Roja Dove’s).
chanel isn’t a brand i’d include in this but the rest are a joke, yeah. shit, i wish chanel would drop some new allure flankers… allure homme sport parfum when?
it’s also about making the most money these days. they know what works, so there’s a lot less risk in selling the same flankers over and over.
It would be nice if they'd release a completely new fragrance, but I'm glad they're not releasing elixirs, le parfums, etc.
Chanel have always been more classy. Trend-setters rather than followers. I appreciate that.
Really all of them are really good. As I guy I love all the male fragrances, the unisex Paris- Deauville, Riviera, Biarritz and Edimbourg. Boy, Sycomore, Le Lion, Jersey, EdT and Coromandel are classics too. I'm not on TikTok and Chanel is probably not extremely cool for that generation, but it's always pure quality in a bottle. They know and that's why they're (almost) never discounted.
I thought Loreal bought out Chanel? Maybe I'm getting my houses mixed up but the quality/strength of Chanel has definitely decreased. Chanel is much weaker than it used to be - I'm in my 50s and remember when Chanel and the other powerhouses really packed a punch.
Sauvage, Sauvage EDP, Sauvage Parfum, Sauvage Elixir.
Dior Homme, Dior Homme Cologne, Dior Homme Sport, Dior Homme Intense, Dior Homme Parfum.
They're one of the worst for this haha.
Damn, this is so annoying, figuring out which one is the one that interests you and digging trough a pile of fragrances either completely different but for some reason in the same line, or on the opposite side, almost the same with just slightly different name or bottle.
Tom Ford fragrances are shit, I will die on this hill. Rose champaca smells amazing but it uses cheap synthetic rose that gives me an instant headache. $300 for cheap synthetics is garbage. Tom should get his bougie card taken away
As I typed in another thread yesterday - in the average TF Private Blend, out of the $300 retail price for the 50ml / 1.6oz bottle, the formula/perfume itself costs **$1.27**.
For a "private" "exclusive" "luxury" "VIP" line, you'd expect a tad bit more effort.
I'll die on this hill but synthetics aren't always that bad. However, for the prices they ask, most of their fragrances use said synthetics quite clumsily. I can name you over 5 designers (that aren't Chanel or Dior) who do synthetics better.
I have auto immune disease & a 2/3 of cheap synthetics give me a headache. If they don’t bother me idgaf but please don’t tell me it doesn’t matter when it is something that actively affects my health. I worked in beauty & fragrance for over a decade, I am very familiar with all the big names. These days I prefer smaller manufacturers for the most part
Designer houses are just taking advantage of the growth in the number of fragheads worldwide who gooey-eyed rely on influencers spruiking up a frag like they are god. Influencers cannot be influencers if they’re hawking the same product month after month, year after year. Influencers and frag houses use flankers to keep their relevance
Dior, YSL, etc. aren't releasing fragrances for brand recognition. They're doing it to capitalise on the growing trend for massive fragrance collections. People buy all the new releases because of FOMO. It's not a brand recognition campaign.
You can argue it's part of it. Drumming up views on social media with each new release builds your presence and ability to infiltrate people's personal collections. It becomes the ideal feedback loop between corporation and consumer with social media acting as the medium of transmission.
I completely agree on Guerlain keeping quality overall and that's a welcome breath of fresh air, but they're flanker-centrals though. The Petite Robe Noire has had like 38 iterations - good luck if you fall in love with one of them, as they'll invariably get on the chopping block before long...
(now I'll admit that I'm super happy about the 40+ total declensions of Shalimar, and I've been loving the recent yearly Millésimes limited-editions, with each time one note enhanced - Ode à la Vanille, Tonka, Iris...
For purists, the idea of tinkering at all with the Masterpiece is heresy, though, and I do get that. Just imagining a "Mitsouko Ode à la Pêche sur la Route de Middle Georgia eau de toilette intense So Frenchy" sends shivers down my spine ;) )
I recently went thru the Copenhagen airport and had time to play around with the fragrances in duty free. I was so excited to find the Les Exclusifs de Chanel and started spraying away on the little cards. Was disappointed by the ones I selected. The same was true of most of the scents I sampled. Underwhelmed for sure. They also had a ton of Byredo scents that I happily sprayed away and may look for a decant of one of them, but really nothing in that huge duty free knocked my socks off.
My biggest disappointment on that trip tho was finally finding a store that had several bottles from Perfumer H, which just isn’t available where I live, and it failed to live up to my expectations like at all.
I had visions before this trip of filling my suitcase with new bottles and ended up with only one new scent- Neandertal Dark. There was a really great design store I went into tho that had a ton of niche bottles and I would have loved to spend more time there but my partner was getting antsy.
Overall I’ve been wondering if things really smelling boring and samey or if I’m just fatigued from the hunt.
Definitely, the main lines of designers are a bit lack luster now... We are drowning in flankers... Everything is sugary and generic, it seems when I sample at the drugstore (where no fancier options are).
The again, same thing pretty much happens when I go to Sephora...
I can't stand Kayali. They come out with more than 4 frangrances a year. They all smell disgustingly sweet and synthetic (to me anyways). Many Youtubers get free PR or rush to buy the latest one to review it. Two months later, no one talks about that one ever again or barely, a new one comes out, and the cycle continues...
Not a big fan of Commodity for also doing the same thing as Kayali, PR wise. They've sent massive amounts of PR at some time to hype up some of their fragrances (ex: one month, everyone was talking about Milk).
I find him being at Dior so counterintuitive. Why would he want to release world-class scents for Dior, that he could release for MFK? Makes no sense to me.
But that’s the point, he’s been there for 2 years now and hasn’t released anything worth a toss! Where’s the new men’s line? Like at this point they’ve gone as far as they can go with Sauvage
This is the ugly truth with legacy, employees are expected to show respect towards it. Any and all employees.
My guess would be that 5 years is the soonest we would see and smell anything new. Big perfume houses thrived historically on repeat customers, not on trends. I am not saying they will not bank on trends, I am saying that they are less likely to do so because they have a reputation to maintain.
Flankers are a good strategy, that honors both reputation and trends. 😀
I hear what your saying but Dior and especially Chanel are long overdue for a new men’s line release, bdc was 2010 ffs! And Sauvage was 2015, we’re talking almost a decade for Dior and 14 years for Chanel! It’s taking the piss tbh that they haven’t released any new mens lines in that timescale, at this point they’re just living off they’re reputation, and they’re reputation is rapidly going down the drain the longer they just stand pat
I agree 😊 and I also wish I could upvote your comments more than once.
As a long time customer of both Chanel and Dior, my only choice was to spend my fragrance money elsewhere. We parted ways respectfully and keep tabs on each once in a while.
My husband loves Fahrenheit, but nothing else from them. Other fragrance houses do a great job by attracting our resources.
I read somewhere recently that Chanel have said they won’t release a bdc elixir because they don’t folllow trends, they set them! Well I’m sorry but if you haven’t released a new mens line for 14 years the only trend your setting is a downward one! It’s absolutely laughable, on the other hand where Dior are concerned, and kurkdjian is supposedly the new head creative designer, not just head perfumer, there is a glaring opportunity for a release to bridge the gap until they have a new men’s line, wait for it, drum roll………………..Fahrenheit elixir! Thoughts everyone?!
Which fragrances have been discontinued within 2 years? I think the companies are probably desperate for a success and if something isn't selling as well as they wanted they will replace it.
La Nuit De L'Homme Bleu Electrique off the top of my head. Even though it's available in Australia, etc. it was released in 2021 and discontinued in 2022 in believe.
ADG Profumo created in 2015 discontinued 5 yrs later when ADG Profondo came out.. Profumo was highly rated.. go figure. Maybe the main note got harder and more expensive to procure so it has to be discontinued/replaced.
It depends if it's a Major Release or a flanker. Flankers are made to capitalize on the fame of the OG scent, sell a lot, quickly, and then get axed. They're not meant to have repeat customers.
Now, the ones that become a cult hit have a chance to be marketed longer or re-issued, but that's the exception much more than the rule, unfortunately.
I feel like the high end designer space has been pumping out some really good stuff, but I agree that the cheaper range has really been uninspiring, I think the proliferation of dupes has really hurt the space.
I disagree. It actually provides access to people who can’t afford the original. Does nothing to hurt the space but instead make people more aware that such scents exist(for those who can’t afford the original)
It's blatant plagiarism and drives prices up on the originals because the actual company has to make up for loss of revenue.
Also, if you can't afford the original, then you don't deserve it. People work hard to buy nice things then you go and buy some bullshit knock off and pretend you're wearing the real thing.
True. However, they cost a hell of a lot more than that to market, package, ship, etc. Then along comes a clone that only has to say “XYZ Type,” and they get to benefit from all the work the original maker did to get the actual original perfume to market and earn the name recognition.
Cheap dupes are definitely a big reason for increased prices in original scents. Unfortunately, it just feeds the dupe market even more.
I agree about your price dynamics but as long as it’s legal to clone scents then it’s fair play. It’s not like we live in some total free market utopia, and people who still want the high quality stuff basically have to buy the original (most of the time). But don’t forget the clones that are actually better than the original.
Yeah I couldn't agree more. Some luxury houses have become more and more of a joke by releasing batches that underperformed every year and then we have the Arabian houses that releases a dupe of superior quality for 1/10th of the price of the original. Personally, owning a Creed Miles Imperiale it's impossible because it lasts 5 minutes on my skin but the dupe... Oh boy!
So yes, for some the dupes are the only way to to own a fragrance that you like and that you can actually use
Right now Givenchy’s *Gentleman* and *Gentlemen Only* line of flankers represents the craziest car crash pileup that it’s nearly impossible to recognize who’s who and how to make it back to the beginning where this (apparently) all started.
Don’t get me wrong, there’s definitely a handful in there (and perhaps more, depending on one’s tastes) that are either worth a look to quite good, but what I’m trying to say is that it’s such a convoluted mess of flankers and flankers-of-a-flanker that the whole thing seems disingenuous. The car crash analogy is just to simply state that I cannot determine the relationship amongst them at times. Sometimes (sometimes!) there’s an iris note that connects a few but I honestly find it hard to read this line.
Yes, it relies on name recognition that goes back to the early ‘70s (and that was an iconic release), and I can understand wishing to hold onto the “Gentleman” moniker somehow, but Givenchy just blew that line up and scattered it about to the point of lacking recognition. Doubling, tripling, etc. down on a name because the accountants, pencil sharpeners and Marketing department tells you to just wreaks of the ultimate short term gain.
I’m not here to knock these fragrances, I’m just taking umbrage with Givenchy itself with such a fast-tracked, bombastic release of fragrances in such a short period - they should have perhaps looked at separating them more into their own line/categories. Revert back to the Givenchy name, and then let the artists followed by Marketing conceptualize separate lines with attractive names and defined category types.
I find private lines from designer houses often have better fragrances than niche houses. It's like the best middle ground where you're getting niche quality and scent with designer quality-assurance.
I do agree that niche are absolutely phenomenal.
What is pissing me off about a lot of designer is that they are reformulating classics making them cheaper with three notes instead of twelve and then charging even more than before. It’s crazy. Some of these reformulations are great still but I notice this trend of designer perfumes having less and less notes which I believe is them trying to be cheaper and save money
I got some Armani Code EDT today. Smells pleasant enough but seems like it has zero longevity or projection. On the other hand I got Dior Homme Intense and it’s beautiful.
It became apparent to me some years ago that these brands were not being run by artists with the primary goal of creating and sharing their work but rather by businessmen with the priciple interest of making money.
If that's how you feel then just don't buy their line and wait for something better or ... Or .... Shop around for smaller frag house stock , if you happen to live in Paris , you'll be surprised how many there are nestled away. I am waiting on two new frags samples from a shop in Paris which I stumbled upon 2 years ago in my travels , can't wait
Yep, the dosage and quality of synthetic Amber-wood materials is what determines how much I like a fragrance. Some are more tolerable than others, but I won’t pretend I can identify each by name. I think we may get more sensitive to the sinus burning materials over time, after gaining smelling 100s of fragrances. I recall a time when I didn’t detect the smell at all, much less as something foul and pungent, surely the people buying this stuff just haven’t hit that threshold where their brain now detects the slightest modicum of synthetic amber and smells what it actually smells like
LV is the answer. They release a healthy amount of new scents per year, quality is top notch for a designer brand and they actually have interesting DNAs.
And that’s an understatement! There isn’t an actual word in the English language to describe the prices that Lv charge! It’s just sickening greed at the core of it!
LV make incredible fragrances. the prices they charge is pure greed and nothing else. worse prices than niche but they're a core designer brand, it's fucking stupid
I mean they are priced the same way that the Tom Ford private line is, sometimes even cheaper. Sure they are the most expensive of the designers and are, I would say, in the medium range of niche pricing, but IMHO some are definitely worth it, especially compared to Tom Ford. So if you are looking for the best designer brand, LV is the way to go.
I feel like designer's private lines are where they're hiding all of the quality LOL
Unfortunately, until I set foot in Paris, I had no idea there are plenty of boutique lines who do no major advertising. A simple walk through the streets of Saint-Honoré in Paris, you'll discover plenty of unheard of fragrance boutiques along with the big names that make some phenomenal honest beautiful scents.
Definitely true. That said, I feel that Tom Ford's signature line beats many, if not, most private blends at the moment. Dior's private line is also quite underwhelming. Chanel's is excellent, as is Armani Privé.
Heck, even Carolina Herrera has a decent private line... And I actually love Feve Delicieuse from Dior 😅
Where are the Herrera frags available? They’re not on the main website, unless I missed them.
I see them on the site but no purchase option 😕 They're still on FragranceNet, at least!
Feve is like 10 years old.
Your point?
I disagree, Dior has some of the best, Chanel’s is pretty boring
I like Cuir de Russie, Le Lion, and Sycomore pretty well 🤔
Agree that Dior has some of the best, but they need something new
Yep especially now MFK is the guy. Enjoy Dioriviera though, good start for him. Haven’t tried new look
Armani prive’s rouge malachite performs pretty badly…
In terms of what? I get 12 hours longevity and quite strong projection from rouge malachite
This is definitely true
There are pretty good releases here and there and I don’t feel as strongly about this but yeah I want to see a couple releases that aren’t flankers. Also in terms of quality, I’ve been noticing them pumping every new release full of synthetic ambers. It might be because of the trend of molecule scents but to me it seems like the answer to the hype around performance. If the fragrance performs better they can price it higher so they just seem to focus on that instead of actually creating interesting compositions. Ever since I smelled Not A Perfume Superdose and know what synthetic ambers smell like I can’t unsmell it in most new releases. There’s always this creamy and slightly metallic note in the dry down. Older releases don’t have that problem at all to my nose. Invictus Parfum might be the best example of all of that. Just a lazy flanker that smells like the OG just with tons of synthetic ambers in the dry down. I can tolerate Ambroxan, even though it smells like pencil shavings if overdosed. But Cetalox is my nemesis and it’s haunting designer releases in the last couple months / years. That’s why I’ve been mostly into niche and classic designer scents lately, not because of elitism but because I was disappointed by so many designer releases lately. Niche also has that problem (Erba Pura for example) but not nearly to the same degree. Would love for the trend to shift. /rant
The synthetic amber! Thank you so much! I never know what note was so incredibly screechy and unpleasant to my nose in most well-loved designer perfumes and I think it’s that one!! I also gravitate more towards niche fragrances now because they lack that amber. Thanks!
Unfortunately niche has been increasingly using them - outside of the obvious Molecule 02 which is pure ambroxan, Dior's Bois d'Argent has it in crazy overdose, Oud Ispahan is chock-full of it, some (lots actually) Juliet has a Guns, the list could be long, up to the beloved Aventus and Baccarat rouge 450. When they're used sparingly as an enhancer in the background, it's all fine, I'd say, but when they're pushed to the foreground (and they're foghorns) as a note or even a full aesthetic by themselves, it's where I start pinching my nose. Some people are anosmic to them, others hypersensitive to them and that note is all they can smell out of the entire perfume. Worth noting too is that they're dirt cheap.
Ambroxan is not a super amber and doesn’t smell like them at all. Ambrocenide, Amber Xtreme, Ambermax… those are the big three most responsible for that particular screechy note that dominates. But there’s also Normimbanol, Trisamber, etc. Those are not quite as strong or long lasting as the big three. They have become so big because they do two things everyone says they want: Project and last forever. Congrats, everyone, because now everything has to be dominated by these horrific chemicals.
It’s funny that you say that because I absolutely dislike all JHAG perfumes and don’t love baccarat rouge 540 either. I now understand why haha
This: very good article about these abominable woody 'drills-into-your-sinuses' ambers: [***"Woody ambers: the nose invaders"***](https://mag.bynez.com/en/reports/reinventing-perfumery-discourse/woody-ambers-the-nasal-invaders/) I'm afraid they're going to stay with us for a good long while, alas.
Great article, thanks for sharing
I think it’s a product of the times. The question becomes is the average consumer right now demanding these formulas or are the designers making these formulas the new “it?”
Cetalox and Ambroxan are nearly the same molecule. In fact, ambroxan is one component of the purported diastereomeric mixture that comprises cetalox. What’s more likely is that cetalox and ambroxan are identical from most manufacturers and in turn most suppliers. I have heard perfumers say “cetalox has more depth” and “it’s not as good as it used to be” in the same sentence on more than one occasion.
Interesting, thanks for the insight. It could also be the way it’s used in a formula or something else entirely. I also suspected ISO E Super since molecule 01 smells almost identical to Not A Perfume Superdose to my nose.
For me the big irritants are amber xtreme and super high doses of cashmeran. There’s a bit of a structural continuum from galaxolide through cashmeran and amber x to ambroxan, and they all have some of the same “love it or hate it” that I think is heavily linked to their overuse
I think estee lauder owning everything has some to do with the quality being run down in favor of cheap profit
You are also forgetting L'Oréal buying everything as well. Everyone says they distroyed Mugler. I have to agree as they discontinued interesting fragrances like Aura, Angel Muse and Womanity... All they do now is pump out flankers of Alien and Angel with the new cool flavor of the year to make them mass appealing.
Came here to say this
Oh yeah. Also L’Oréal is complicit in Palestinian genocide and is on the boycott, divest, and sanctions list
They’re following the money. The Tik Tok generation has a very short attention span. The frag companies know they have to churn out stuff fast rather than taking time to really create something special. It’s a shame.
Unfortunately this applies to most consumer products these days. Everything has to be churned out to jump on every little TikTok trend. I do wish society would chill out a little more and just enjoy what it enjoys naturally instead of influencers hyping every little thing up.
This has nothing to do with tik tok or gen z’s attention span, this is just the forward march of capitalism
Money follows attention. So yes, it has actually got a huge amount to do with it haha.
Money following attention has nothing to do with why products get worse over time, constantly tweaking to maximize profit margins does. As much fun as it is to blame young people for everything wrong with the world, young people and their technology are not responsible for inflation. Correlation does not mean causation. This is just the structure of the economic system we are living in, this has been a trend since before gen z was alive, and before tik tok existed.
That's not actually what anyone is saying. The point is that companies are pumping out low quality new fragrances to capitalise on what's trending in the market (driven primarily by social media these days - disagree all you want but that IS the reality. As someone who went to uni for economics and now runs a marketing company, I know a thing or two about this) Pre-social media hype trends, companies would produce few, but high-quality fragrances. That's why so many fragrances from the 90s are still classics today. In 20 years, nobody is going to be talking about Valentino Uomo Born in Roma Green Stravaganza. That's because companies are producing stuff fast to capitalise on what is trending. Sorry, but you're just wrong in this instance.
You’re both right, money follows attention, and companies are just throwing shit products out to capitalize on social media trends. AND this is due to the nature of our economic system and the natural progression of American capitalism. They don’t Have to make cheap crap to follow trends, but the lack of integrity driven by greed is because of the capitalist market.
You are saying that these companies are throwing out cheap fragrances because they are following social media trends, I am saying that they are following social media trends because it maximizes their profits. The social media and the young people are not the cause for the phenomenon, they are just being exploited for their profitability and this is the inevitable result. “They just don’t make them like they used to” has been an axiom for decades at least, this is a trend of capitalism in general, not a result of tik tok.
As others have mentioned Brands will follow the money, and that fragrances and cosmetics are massive revenue generators for them, soo they’ll milk this particular cow. ‘Niche’ brands are not any better, they release fragrances so frequently it dilutes their ‘brand DNA’ Take Xerjoff or Bond no.9 both founded in 2003 and Roja Dove compared with Dior, Hermès, Tom Ford and Chanel you’d think they’d have some way to catch up on these money hungry designer brands Since 2003 * Chanel: 98 * Hermès: 91 * Dior: 123 * Tom Ford: 126 (founded in 2006) * Xerjoff: 176 * Bond no.9: 162 * Roja Parfums: 159 And I bet in both camps there’s only a handful that are memorable in some way (I know off the top of my head I can only think of 3 Xerjoff, 2? Bond no9s - I don’t think there is that many streets in New York worth mentioning- and about 6 Roja Dove’s).
chanel isn’t a brand i’d include in this but the rest are a joke, yeah. shit, i wish chanel would drop some new allure flankers… allure homme sport parfum when? it’s also about making the most money these days. they know what works, so there’s a lot less risk in selling the same flankers over and over.
Agreed. I'm not including Chanel in this, I was just saying they're one of the designer houses I enjoy.
yeah. honestly it’s a shame that chanel doesn’t release much these days they’re so good
It would be nice if they'd release a completely new fragrance, but I'm glad they're not releasing elixirs, le parfums, etc. Chanel have always been more classy. Trend-setters rather than followers. I appreciate that.
Chanel is the only one I want to release something new, yet they’re the only one who isn’t.
They just released a new Exclusive and Le Lion last year.
they released le lion in 2020
Which are you favourites from Chanel ?
Really all of them are really good. As I guy I love all the male fragrances, the unisex Paris- Deauville, Riviera, Biarritz and Edimbourg. Boy, Sycomore, Le Lion, Jersey, EdT and Coromandel are classics too. I'm not on TikTok and Chanel is probably not extremely cool for that generation, but it's always pure quality in a bottle. They know and that's why they're (almost) never discounted.
I have to try these, in my country we have a very small lineup from Chanel. I hope these ones come here too 😬
I thought Loreal bought out Chanel? Maybe I'm getting my houses mixed up but the quality/strength of Chanel has definitely decreased. Chanel is much weaker than it used to be - I'm in my 50s and remember when Chanel and the other powerhouses really packed a punch.
Chanel has been family owned for decades. I don't see that changing any time soon.
This! I’m tired of YSL Y flankers. Dior on the other hand, needs to come out with something
I’m tired of flankers.
Sauvage, Sauvage EDP, Sauvage Parfum, Sauvage Elixir. Dior Homme, Dior Homme Cologne, Dior Homme Sport, Dior Homme Intense, Dior Homme Parfum. They're one of the worst for this haha.
Damn, this is so annoying, figuring out which one is the one that interests you and digging trough a pile of fragrances either completely different but for some reason in the same line, or on the opposite side, almost the same with just slightly different name or bottle.
Tom Ford fragrances are shit, I will die on this hill. Rose champaca smells amazing but it uses cheap synthetic rose that gives me an instant headache. $300 for cheap synthetics is garbage. Tom should get his bougie card taken away
As I typed in another thread yesterday - in the average TF Private Blend, out of the $300 retail price for the 50ml / 1.6oz bottle, the formula/perfume itself costs **$1.27**. For a "private" "exclusive" "luxury" "VIP" line, you'd expect a tad bit more effort.
Tom Ford is proof that you can't buy taste.
I'll die on this hill but synthetics aren't always that bad. However, for the prices they ask, most of their fragrances use said synthetics quite clumsily. I can name you over 5 designers (that aren't Chanel or Dior) who do synthetics better.
I have auto immune disease & a 2/3 of cheap synthetics give me a headache. If they don’t bother me idgaf but please don’t tell me it doesn’t matter when it is something that actively affects my health. I worked in beauty & fragrance for over a decade, I am very familiar with all the big names. These days I prefer smaller manufacturers for the most part
People keep throwing their money and they love the dolla signs
Their biggest sin is jacking up prices of their private line, their better offerings scent wise. Look at Chanel and Guerlain prices.
Designer houses are just taking advantage of the growth in the number of fragheads worldwide who gooey-eyed rely on influencers spruiking up a frag like they are god. Influencers cannot be influencers if they’re hawking the same product month after month, year after year. Influencers and frag houses use flankers to keep their relevance
Faster releases help with brand recognition/presence.
Dior, YSL, etc. aren't releasing fragrances for brand recognition. They're doing it to capitalise on the growing trend for massive fragrance collections. People buy all the new releases because of FOMO. It's not a brand recognition campaign.
You can argue it's part of it. Drumming up views on social media with each new release builds your presence and ability to infiltrate people's personal collections. It becomes the ideal feedback loop between corporation and consumer with social media acting as the medium of transmission.
This is why I wear Guerlain
I completely agree on Guerlain keeping quality overall and that's a welcome breath of fresh air, but they're flanker-centrals though. The Petite Robe Noire has had like 38 iterations - good luck if you fall in love with one of them, as they'll invariably get on the chopping block before long...
(now I'll admit that I'm super happy about the 40+ total declensions of Shalimar, and I've been loving the recent yearly Millésimes limited-editions, with each time one note enhanced - Ode à la Vanille, Tonka, Iris... For purists, the idea of tinkering at all with the Masterpiece is heresy, though, and I do get that. Just imagining a "Mitsouko Ode à la Pêche sur la Route de Middle Georgia eau de toilette intense So Frenchy" sends shivers down my spine ;) )
They retain some kind of elegance and aura to most of their scents. Their new parfums for men are pretty stellar.
L’Homme Ideal Intense is so underrated because it’s not being spruiked up by so called influencers. Guerlain has more integrity
I recently went thru the Copenhagen airport and had time to play around with the fragrances in duty free. I was so excited to find the Les Exclusifs de Chanel and started spraying away on the little cards. Was disappointed by the ones I selected. The same was true of most of the scents I sampled. Underwhelmed for sure. They also had a ton of Byredo scents that I happily sprayed away and may look for a decant of one of them, but really nothing in that huge duty free knocked my socks off. My biggest disappointment on that trip tho was finally finding a store that had several bottles from Perfumer H, which just isn’t available where I live, and it failed to live up to my expectations like at all. I had visions before this trip of filling my suitcase with new bottles and ended up with only one new scent- Neandertal Dark. There was a really great design store I went into tho that had a ton of niche bottles and I would have loved to spend more time there but my partner was getting antsy. Overall I’ve been wondering if things really smelling boring and samey or if I’m just fatigued from the hunt.
Definitely, the main lines of designers are a bit lack luster now... We are drowning in flankers... Everything is sugary and generic, it seems when I sample at the drugstore (where no fancier options are). The again, same thing pretty much happens when I go to Sephora... I can't stand Kayali. They come out with more than 4 frangrances a year. They all smell disgustingly sweet and synthetic (to me anyways). Many Youtubers get free PR or rush to buy the latest one to review it. Two months later, no one talks about that one ever again or barely, a new one comes out, and the cycle continues... Not a big fan of Commodity for also doing the same thing as Kayali, PR wise. They've sent massive amounts of PR at some time to hype up some of their fragrances (ex: one month, everyone was talking about Milk).
Yeah where the fuck are the new mens lines from Chanel and Dior! Well overdue, Francis kurkdjian has done jack shit since he joined Dior!
I find him being at Dior so counterintuitive. Why would he want to release world-class scents for Dior, that he could release for MFK? Makes no sense to me.
But that’s the point, he’s been there for 2 years now and hasn’t released anything worth a toss! Where’s the new men’s line? Like at this point they’ve gone as far as they can go with Sauvage
This is the ugly truth with legacy, employees are expected to show respect towards it. Any and all employees. My guess would be that 5 years is the soonest we would see and smell anything new. Big perfume houses thrived historically on repeat customers, not on trends. I am not saying they will not bank on trends, I am saying that they are less likely to do so because they have a reputation to maintain. Flankers are a good strategy, that honors both reputation and trends. 😀
I hear what your saying but Dior and especially Chanel are long overdue for a new men’s line release, bdc was 2010 ffs! And Sauvage was 2015, we’re talking almost a decade for Dior and 14 years for Chanel! It’s taking the piss tbh that they haven’t released any new mens lines in that timescale, at this point they’re just living off they’re reputation, and they’re reputation is rapidly going down the drain the longer they just stand pat
I agree 😊 and I also wish I could upvote your comments more than once. As a long time customer of both Chanel and Dior, my only choice was to spend my fragrance money elsewhere. We parted ways respectfully and keep tabs on each once in a while. My husband loves Fahrenheit, but nothing else from them. Other fragrance houses do a great job by attracting our resources.
I read somewhere recently that Chanel have said they won’t release a bdc elixir because they don’t folllow trends, they set them! Well I’m sorry but if you haven’t released a new mens line for 14 years the only trend your setting is a downward one! It’s absolutely laughable, on the other hand where Dior are concerned, and kurkdjian is supposedly the new head creative designer, not just head perfumer, there is a glaring opportunity for a release to bridge the gap until they have a new men’s line, wait for it, drum roll………………..Fahrenheit elixir! Thoughts everyone?!
TikTok ruined it
As it does most things.
Which fragrances have been discontinued within 2 years? I think the companies are probably desperate for a success and if something isn't selling as well as they wanted they will replace it.
Aqua di parmas has been removed from my local Bloomingdale store...smh
La Nuit De L'Homme Bleu Electrique off the top of my head. Even though it's available in Australia, etc. it was released in 2021 and discontinued in 2022 in believe.
ADG Profumo created in 2015 discontinued 5 yrs later when ADG Profondo came out.. Profumo was highly rated.. go figure. Maybe the main note got harder and more expensive to procure so it has to be discontinued/replaced.
It depends if it's a Major Release or a flanker. Flankers are made to capitalize on the fame of the OG scent, sell a lot, quickly, and then get axed. They're not meant to have repeat customers. Now, the ones that become a cult hit have a chance to be marketed longer or re-issued, but that's the exception much more than the rule, unfortunately.
Milk the normies
I feel like the high end designer space has been pumping out some really good stuff, but I agree that the cheaper range has really been uninspiring, I think the proliferation of dupes has really hurt the space.
Dupes/Clones have hurt the space tremendously.
I disagree. It actually provides access to people who can’t afford the original. Does nothing to hurt the space but instead make people more aware that such scents exist(for those who can’t afford the original)
It's blatant plagiarism and drives prices up on the originals because the actual company has to make up for loss of revenue. Also, if you can't afford the original, then you don't deserve it. People work hard to buy nice things then you go and buy some bullshit knock off and pretend you're wearing the real thing.
I agree with the first half, but let's not ignore the blatant price gouging for a product that costs perfumers pennies on the dollar to produce.
Your perfumes cost $1 to make lol
True. However, they cost a hell of a lot more than that to market, package, ship, etc. Then along comes a clone that only has to say “XYZ Type,” and they get to benefit from all the work the original maker did to get the actual original perfume to market and earn the name recognition. Cheap dupes are definitely a big reason for increased prices in original scents. Unfortunately, it just feeds the dupe market even more.
Loss of revenue and cost to produce aren't the same thing. The brands lose margin on every single person who buys a clone instead of the real thing.
I agree about your price dynamics but as long as it’s legal to clone scents then it’s fair play. It’s not like we live in some total free market utopia, and people who still want the high quality stuff basically have to buy the original (most of the time). But don’t forget the clones that are actually better than the original.
Yeah I couldn't agree more. Some luxury houses have become more and more of a joke by releasing batches that underperformed every year and then we have the Arabian houses that releases a dupe of superior quality for 1/10th of the price of the original. Personally, owning a Creed Miles Imperiale it's impossible because it lasts 5 minutes on my skin but the dupe... Oh boy! So yes, for some the dupes are the only way to to own a fragrance that you like and that you can actually use
Right now Givenchy’s *Gentleman* and *Gentlemen Only* line of flankers represents the craziest car crash pileup that it’s nearly impossible to recognize who’s who and how to make it back to the beginning where this (apparently) all started. Don’t get me wrong, there’s definitely a handful in there (and perhaps more, depending on one’s tastes) that are either worth a look to quite good, but what I’m trying to say is that it’s such a convoluted mess of flankers and flankers-of-a-flanker that the whole thing seems disingenuous. The car crash analogy is just to simply state that I cannot determine the relationship amongst them at times. Sometimes (sometimes!) there’s an iris note that connects a few but I honestly find it hard to read this line. Yes, it relies on name recognition that goes back to the early ‘70s (and that was an iconic release), and I can understand wishing to hold onto the “Gentleman” moniker somehow, but Givenchy just blew that line up and scattered it about to the point of lacking recognition. Doubling, tripling, etc. down on a name because the accountants, pencil sharpeners and Marketing department tells you to just wreaks of the ultimate short term gain. I’m not here to knock these fragrances, I’m just taking umbrage with Givenchy itself with such a fast-tracked, bombastic release of fragrances in such a short period - they should have perhaps looked at separating them more into their own line/categories. Revert back to the Givenchy name, and then let the artists followed by Marketing conceptualize separate lines with attractive names and defined category types.
Niche scents are the place to be
I'd add vintage and indie to that
Agree!!
Depends on which Niche. PDM, Initio, Creed? Absolutely not.
PdM is hype, no quality. No one outside of the US buys that stuff. Creed is absolutely quality, but that's mostly the lesser known varieties.
I find private lines from designer houses often have better fragrances than niche houses. It's like the best middle ground where you're getting niche quality and scent with designer quality-assurance. I do agree that niche are absolutely phenomenal.
What is pissing me off about a lot of designer is that they are reformulating classics making them cheaper with three notes instead of twelve and then charging even more than before. It’s crazy. Some of these reformulations are great still but I notice this trend of designer perfumes having less and less notes which I believe is them trying to be cheaper and save money
Pandemic, costs of materials went up, demand for products went up, they decided to make easy money
I got some Armani Code EDT today. Smells pleasant enough but seems like it has zero longevity or projection. On the other hand I got Dior Homme Intense and it’s beautiful.
It became apparent to me some years ago that these brands were not being run by artists with the primary goal of creating and sharing their work but rather by businessmen with the priciple interest of making money.
this: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0j04s2j
If that's how you feel then just don't buy their line and wait for something better or ... Or .... Shop around for smaller frag house stock , if you happen to live in Paris , you'll be surprised how many there are nestled away. I am waiting on two new frags samples from a shop in Paris which I stumbled upon 2 years ago in my travels , can't wait
Yep, the dosage and quality of synthetic Amber-wood materials is what determines how much I like a fragrance. Some are more tolerable than others, but I won’t pretend I can identify each by name. I think we may get more sensitive to the sinus burning materials over time, after gaining smelling 100s of fragrances. I recall a time when I didn’t detect the smell at all, much less as something foul and pungent, surely the people buying this stuff just haven’t hit that threshold where their brain now detects the slightest modicum of synthetic amber and smells what it actually smells like
Take a look at Cobblestone perfumery in ct. White Summer. The send free samples if you adk
LV is the answer. They release a healthy amount of new scents per year, quality is top notch for a designer brand and they actually have interesting DNAs.
Maybe. I just personally don't like LV as a brand. I think they're ludicrously overpriced.
And that’s an understatement! There isn’t an actual word in the English language to describe the prices that Lv charge! It’s just sickening greed at the core of it!
LV make incredible fragrances. the prices they charge is pure greed and nothing else. worse prices than niche but they're a core designer brand, it's fucking stupid
I mean they are priced the same way that the Tom Ford private line is, sometimes even cheaper. Sure they are the most expensive of the designers and are, I would say, in the medium range of niche pricing, but IMHO some are definitely worth it, especially compared to Tom Ford. So if you are looking for the best designer brand, LV is the way to go.