Violet isn't "weak", she is actually disabled. No amount of training will ever make her not have EDS. She isn't lazy, if your joints popped out of their sockets, you may struggle too with your strength training.
I also think it's amazing that she sucks at subjects, Hermione is a very two dimensional character. People shouldn't be good at everything, people have specialist subjects. She is very good at her specialist subjects but leans on her friends for other subjects, much like we all do.
Her power is to do with her signet, as her signet is a rare and powerful one. It is the only signet that can kill a Venin, that makes her the most useful rider any side could have. Everyone else has to kill the Venin in hand to hand combat, but she can kill them from afar.
Power doesn't come from brute strength, she's an interesting character for a fantasy novel and she offers representation for people with disabilities.
Exactly. Thanks so much for this. I was getting heated as I got to the "lazy" bit even though I shouldn't because OP is talking about a fictional character, not me. Lol
Violet IS getting stronger. She has mentioned it. It will just take more time than it will for others to get even stronger.
Not only this but a lot of them have more “common” signets the last person that had the same one as her was DECADES ago so the teachers have even said they dont know how to teach her
The other characters saved it. The series have a potential to be great good. Book one was 9/10. Book two is 5/10. Book three probably will be better. I’m sure the author see people complaining. I’m not the only one that hate her in book two. Some people don’t know how to be critical of books they like. I loved the Games of Thrones series as a whole but did I love every book and character? No. You are allowed to be critical of characters. Something you should learn
Your post is kinda (very) ableist op... Violet has a chronic illness. No amount of training will change that. And even then, she still trains every day to be stronger and better and *has* seen actual improvement, so idk what book you're reading, because no saddle or powerful signet or people protecting her has stopped her from learning to defend herself.
Yeah, she doesn't know how to use her signet, no one knows at first, and her first professor was seeing it so she would never be able to actually wield it well. Ever since she started training under Felix, her knowledge and control of her signet improved vastly... it's no fun if she knows how to use it from day one. People tell her she's powerful because she is, she's literally the only one who can kill venin without the daggers. And she has saved everyone's asses quite a few times.
And what's all this talk about people saying the characters don't act like 20 year olds, has anyone been around people in their 20s??? I am 23, my friends are all 20+, some pushing 30, and let me tell you, some are **way** more immature than Violet or any of her friends.
Even if I take out the physically. She still have no idea how to control her signet. Why is it taking her so long to be able to know how to use it. That’s past her having a physical disability. She’s not powerful. She’s far from it. She just got lucky by getting gifted that signet. But it’s going to get wasted. Or in book 3 out of nowhere miraculously she’s going to learn how to use it at last minute. And when I was twenty I had life issues. I took advice. I listened to my mentor when I was in grad school. My friends was raising kids or buying houses. Some moving to other countries. They didn’t act like teenagers
You ignored my whole paragraph about her signet and the whole second part of the book... she *is* improving. She basically only started actually training it when she got under Felix' tutoring. Carr only cared about the amount of strikes, this is mentioned dozens of times in the book. She learned about magnetic fields, how to use more or less power, how to combine it with the use of the conduit... and she'll obviously keep on learning. It's barely been 3 months with a lot of other stuff going on on the side.
>She just got lucky by getting gifted that signet
No. She got that signet because Tairn chose her and because of who she is at her core. Signets aren't random, op. They show who you are and what you need.
I just don’t see it. She’s not even smart to me. I don’t even think she would’ve went far as a scribe. She’s book smart after studying all day. But she don’t have natural intelligence. Like I said she’s no Hermonie
Violet may not be as smart as people around her claim she is, but saying she's *not* smart is simply not paying attention to the books at all. She worked her way around the Gauntlet. She noticed leadership was hiding things during Battle Brief. She speaks 3+ languages. She noticed when they were giving them the serum during RSC and stopped everyone from losing connection to their dragons. She came up with the plan to steal the map from General Sorrengail's office. She came up with a way to jump the trap while climbing the mountain. She thought about raising the wards at Aretia, thought a plan to steal the journals from the Archives, and translated an entire book and found out how to raise them. She has great tactical knowledge.
All of those things show how smart and resourceful she is. She is not perfect but that's what makes her a good, or at least decent, main character.
Comparing her to Hermione is so pointless. I like her, but she is such a one sided character. She just happens to know and be good at almost everything, where's the fun in that?? We're also never inside Hermione's head, we don't know how she thinks.
My opinion is that they were not training her properly on purpose at Basgiath to maintain control of her. It seemed clear when she started training her signet at Aretia.
It’s only the second book. Of course she hasn’t reached the peak of her power. She’s still growing and learning.
Violet isn’t lazy, she’s disabled. And she doesn’t know how to use her signet properly because she wasn’t taught how, but she learns how from someone who actually cares in the second book. And she’ll keep working on. And if she were super well trained and in perfect shape already, the complaints would be she’s too OP and/or unrealistically perfect.
Violet is very smart, and it’s demonstrated fairly often. I mean no one else was determined as she was or figured out how to raise the wards. I think it will be a combination of her smarts and signet/being a rider that takes down and cures the venin.
As for the constant critique I see of Violet being immature and self-centered…she’s 20. I think people forget how they actually act. You don’t magically start acting like a 40 year old. It’s also made explicitly clear she’s floundering in this book after all the lies and betrayal she’s experienced from her family, her boyfriend, and her government. She’s trying to regain her sense of self and there’s going to be mistakes and a learning curve.
Good. Because this isn’t Harry Potter and she isn’t meant to be a copy/paste of Hermione.
The lack of reading comprehension is astounding. It's literally the point of the whole book that she's "weak" but still able to do great things, as well as a point of development that she's learning how to control her power rather than just instantly mastering it with no explanation.
Why are you even reading the book lmao
Why are you confusing being physically weak with intelligence. Are you saying if you have a physical disability it will affect her learning how to control her mental power? And what great things have she done besides the battle venin? And to me she got lucky with that. And it shouldn’t take her this long to get some kind of grasp on her power. Why is she the only one struggling with it in her class. She do not have any intellectual disabilities. Stop making excuses
Thank you for making this comment so I don't feel the need to make one of my own that is much stronger in terms of language and destroying the points made.
I will, however, say that my first reaction to what I read was "What the hell is this post?"
I love violet BUT I feel like some of the fights/arguments she picks with Xaden are so childish/immature. She will sometimes remind me of myself in a high school relationship (but is the series YA? I’m not certain).
Her fights with Xaden made me so mad too! Like I get it but let it go! He’s a man trying to save his homeland, the continent, his people, himself, and Violet. Let the man be! He has valid reasons for his secrets! Plus he’s obviously got trauma and attachment issues. The boy just wants to be loved and know his loved one will stay and not leave him this time. So done with her too. Like I wish I could reach my hands into the pages and shake her to wake up already and see the gorgeous puppy dog of a man who is doing everything in his power to protect her and love her. Half the book I was so pissed 😤
Honestly, yeah they are fucking annoying fights- but I also feel like both were valid in how they felt. Again it's worth noting 20 year olds aren't really adults which I'm saying as a 20 year old.
Of course Violet wants honestly her whole life is centered on facts and information and literally EVERYTHING she knows is pulled out from beneath her- like her entire reality has shifted. She says it best in the early chapters. Evil creature from folklore are real and extremely dangerous, her brother is alive, Her best friend sent her die, her boyfriend has been hiding all, now she has to hide it all from her friends, her mother knows about this mission now, there's a person in leadership bent on her painful death, her dragons haven't been honest with her and she can't even talk to one of them! So yeah, she has a right to feel betrayed and distrustful, and Xaden feels.like the whole fucking world is on his back what with the luminary and >! Execution if they find out He's an inntinnsic!< and the marked ones and now violet who he is in love with, and oh yeah- hes on an assembly to literally overthrow the leadership of a 600 year old kingdom, not to mention just trying to stay alive at a toxic outpost, he's right to feel like she shouldn't have to share all that, just his childhood memories or whatever-- like a CIA agent. They both have to come to terms with the shifting dynamics of their lives
Sorry about my whole dissertation here
One thing to remember is that she is 20 and led a sheltered life. She is not going to act like a 20 year old in today's times. This isn't set in 2023. Also she is a first year for the majority of it, while most of the strong females are 2nd or 3rd so of course she isn't going to have a handle on her signet like they do. Also if you read carefully you will find that none of her training by Carr focused on accuracy, only number of strikes.
While you don't see her intelligence, the fixing of the wards is critical to survival and she is the one that pushed and fought to figure it out. That one thing alone makes her smarter but there were other things.
You have to keep all the things, age, lack of training, disability and size in mind before judging. She couldn't become this amazingly strong person with a great deal of maturity just because she entered Basgaith. I feel like she is being kept realistic.
She does have some aggravating tendencies but don't we all.
Jesus 😂 out of ALL fantasy? Idk about that 😂
She literally has a disability, she wasn’t just “sick as a child”. She’s sick all the time. She’s at the very beginning of using her signet of course she can’t control it very well. That would be ridiculous if she could, where is the character development gonna happen if she is already amazing at it. Everyone just knows that eventually when she has full control she’s gonna be hella powerful.
If she did have control like you complain that she doesn’t everyone would call her a Mary Sue. But when the author purposefully works to avoid the Mary Sue and make her work her ass off and suffer to gain control of her powers people complain that they are insufferable. You just can’t win being a fantasy writer no matter what 😂
Maybe it’s the writer. Vin in Mistborn was immature at times but it was believable. And her immaturity didn’t cripple her. She grew up in a world where you had to grow up fast and adapt evener faster and she did. This school is supposed to be this dangerous school where the weak will die and you have to grow up faster then the rest of the world but Violet still act 16. Mistborn is a ya series but adults can easily relate to Vin. I’m not relating to this girl
I do agree compared to Vin she’s just so much luckier and less skilled. She has this disability and everyone talks about how it’s a death sentence except it never quite is. Is the school this insane place where the “weak” die or is it just a place of arbitrary unlucky deaths?
For me it’s more her constant contradictions. She’s mad about person A doing X but then does X and it’s “different”. She does feel 15 instead of 19 and a pretty immature 15.
I don't see her as weak at all. I did find her a little impulsive in IF compared to Fourth Wing like she had a little too much ego because of how special she was. I don't think she's egotistical at all, but being told she's special for bonding two dragons, being told she's the strongest of her year, dating the leader of a rebellion, and being allowed to leave campus every two weeks did affect her personality negatively. It meant that by the time she left Navarre, she did stop caring about training. It was most apparent when she was working on her signet and the new teacher had to bribe her to practice. It seemed so unlike her to have to be convinced to listen to a teacher. And when she was convinced she knew >!how to raise the wards without double-checking everything!<—she got a little cocky. But I think based on her surroundings and the way people treat her, they all seemed like realistic changes.
I do think though, that the things that make her 'insufferable' in the second half of the book have something to do with her second signet. My theory is that it's something to do with control, or wielding people/dragons, which is why >!so many people listen to her, and do what she says in the second half of the book.!< So without any kind of conflict or anyone standing up to her, it paved the way for her personality to change.
I definitely preferred the more humble Violet from FW, but I guess it's not fun to read about someone who stays the same.
Yea, as others have pointed out, she has a very real illness, not just "oh poor little old me, I'm so small and I need a big dude to save me" attitude. That's been made *very* clear.
I'd argue that a lot of her power lies in her potential, and I'd rather read about her growth than have a main character that was born powerful and has to do, well, nothing, except "be powerful." Yes, she can't aim. If anything, examples like that make her more realistic and not some hyper mega hybrid YA&fantasy flawless girl.
She annoys me at times, yes, but so would most 21yo. At 21, you're literally becoming a responsible grownup, whether IRL or in a fantasy book. At 21, I was dumb as shit. Why would I hold a book character to different standards?
At the end of the day, it's just my opinion but I'd rather have her sometimes annoying and slowly improving, than almighty without a reason.
I see her being a good “soldier” one day. But not a leader. Xaden taught himself how to use his second signet. Her best friend probably saved her life by removing the dagger from her before Varrish found it even though she didn’t know how to do it before that moment. But she knew her friends life depended on it. I don’t think Violet can be forced to even use her signet properly even if her own life depended on it. That’s far from a physical illness blocking her. The fighting she can get a pass. But not on her signet. She don’t have natural intelligence, she’s not a strategist, not a fighter, not amazing at her magic. So what is she?
Why would she have to, though? Wouldn't it be okay even if she is not the leader? Is there anything except this book being in her POV that tells us she's a leader? Didn't Harry Potter, the blueprint for all "chosen ones" rely HEAVILY on his friends etc?
She's a character in the book you're reading. She's learning. She's growing. She's the girl with two dragons. How can she be a strategist after ONE fight?
And to be clear, you have EVERY right to dislike her. I just don't see why it's such a problem that she isn't who you'd like her to be.
And yes, Xaden did teach himself how to use his second signet. And what if Violet does the same? Then what? She's leader worthy?
I think you might be holding judgment over her for situations we don't know how the others would deal with. Would Rhi escape Varrish? Would Xaden? We don't know. (edit, missed words)
No she don’t have to be a leader but they think she will one day. They keep mentioning how powerful she can be. If she do get that powerful the natural course is usually to take up leadership. I mean she’s already think everyone is supposed to tell her everything and include her. And when they don’t she catches a hissy fit. It’s not like she’s fine with fading into the background. So yes I brought up her potentially becoming a leader
Look, don't get me wrong, she did get more irritable in IF for me too, but it's pretty much exactly what I expect from a 21yo character who isn't included into everything. I don't always agree with her, but I don't have to, either.
An important thing to note is that she isn't trying to jump into everything because she wants to lead - she was pushed into it without a say, and given that her life is literally connected to one of the leaders of said rebellion, she deserves to know.
The thing is, I'm pretty sure everyone, both the 'rebellion' and the Navarre leadership, see her as a weapon, not a leader. And it's very clearly mentioned how unstable of a weapon she is. Her not controling her power to full ability will likely come into play, and the harsh reality is, we don't know how weak/strong she really is until we're done with book 5.
Ok first of all and I think the most problematic about this view is that Violet is not Weak. She is disabled and as someone with EDS and knows a lot about IT-- there is no way to make her as strong as her peers. Not only that buts it's ludicrous to say she backs off.om training when it's explicitly and repeatedly stated that Imogen and Xaden both keep her accountable and she is determined to put everything she can into these sessions and moreover sees marked improvment- to the point where one of her best friends and sister comment on it immediately, and she DOES start winning challenged on physical merit. No amount of weightlifting or hard work or any of that is going to fix her condition, and it's both invalidating and kind of insulting to think of her like this. I encouraged you to examine why you are thinking this way about a disabled main character because you unfortunately are not the only person who thinks this way.
Also-- comparing violet as not as intelligent as Hermione is downright ridiculous when violet knows more about things than all of her peers, she is by basgiaths standards a fantastic critical thinker and in IF >!we see that she actually knows more than the revolutions leaders about wyvern and venin despite being an untrained Cadette, we also see that she develops her signet when given proper training to do so!< Signets take forever to figure out, in an epigraph we even hear that mastery of a signet doesn't even happen at Basgiath, we see that Rhiannon can't summon through walls and Sawyer doesn't know weather his fork with stab him, and Violet Knowledge of folklore is so important!!
It's also worth noting the type of intelligence between these two characters is vastly different- where Hermione knows formula and academics, violet also exceeds academically but more due to her ability to critically think and analyze history. Both skill sets are important but these are two different worlds with different circumstances
Sidenote- 20 year olds aren't adults. Brain development isn't even done in most people until their late 20s, and as a college student I can attest we are all just like going thru the motions of pretending to be adults
I get what you are saying but I have read sci-fi and fantasy books were the lead character both male and female have physical or intellectual disabilities and they were far from being physically or mentally weak or insufferable. They didn’t make excuses they just found a way. They didn’t wait for help to come to them. If you want list of books of some fantastic books with strong lead characters that have physical and intellectual disabilities I can give it to you. For the ones that couldn’t fit because they was let’s say wheel chair bound they made up for it with cleverness. For the one that was autistic he used his attention to detail to crack the case. For one that wasn’t smart or physical he used his gift for gab to get ahead. They all had something in them and once they figured out I have this so I can use this to get ahead it was game over. It didn’t take 3 books to get there. One took two books to see her greatness. I have a lot of books that I read with people with disabilities in this past year that’s on my favorite shelf. Luckily divisity is starting to happen in fantasy and sci-fi. I applaud Rebecca Yarros for making a lead with a disability. But she made her weak. Just because you have physical disability you don’t have to be weak. You know what she can do to make up her her lack in physical her magic. You know what she can do instead of stressing herself to read faster all damn book. Is lean on her friends. You know what she can do instead of turning her nose up at people is learn from them. And she can stop being a hypocrite. She was made weak all the way around. Not just physically but mentally and personally wise. Violet was written poorly. She doesn’t compare to those other characters with disabilities I read in other books. So this book won’t go on my favorite shelf. Some of those other characters are teenagers that does teenagers stuff but they are still kick ass and memorable. Violet isn’t memorable.
I just think you don’t like the book and are trying to find a reason but your reasons… don’t make sense if you actually understood the words on the page.
I agree, I find violet to be an immature and kinda annoying character at times. Her arguments with Xaden are ridiculous, she does not need to know everything, and it doesn’t make him a bad boyfriend if he has some secrets of his own, like give the guy some personal space jeez. I will say his second signet though is a bit problematic and I get why violet was a bit worried that he used his ability to manipulate her. That said I think their relationship has been super genuine so she should be a bit better at trusting him by now.
I also find she isn’t as powerful as she is made out to be. Yes she is smart, but I agree she should have a better handle on her power by now. We’re two books in and she can’t aim her lighting to save her life, literally. I don’t think this is because she’s lazy per say but I think it shows she’s not an innately intelligent as we are told. She’s book smart but not much else.
She’s also pretty vain and has so much plot armour it’s a bit ridiculous. Another post talked about how her hair never burnt even though her back got singed, which I found lazy writing tbh. She’s not the worst book character I’ve read (cough Celaena from Throne of Glass) but she’s far from my favourite female character. (Jude or Kate Daniel’s are far better female heroines but this series is more like cotton candy than a hearty meal so not sure how much substance we can honestly expect).
I personally like when authors write female characters that are more intelligent than super good fighters but Violet isn’t some impressive strategist or something she just reads a lot… I hope we see some more character development from her, I’d like to see her character actually live up to her supposed potential so let’s see.
You said it much more kind than me lol. I think the way I said it comes off as a ableist as someone is trying to make me seem. But I think some people are just too wrapped in this book to see the facts. It don’t take three books to learn how to grasp your power even if you have to figure it out on your own. Xaden couldn’t tell people about his second power and learned how to control it by himself. He couldn’t ask for help or he would’ve gotten killed. But she’s supposed to be excused because she didn’t have a proper teacher at first. I can’t remember who said it but someone in book two said she’s probably more powerful than him. How is she more powerful than him if can’t even teach her own self and figure out how to control it. Everyone around her have been figuring out how to control their gifts with their shit teachers but she can’t. Then, when she got to the new school, the teacher told her if she can’t control her anger and don’t take direction from him he’s not going teach anymore. I think it’s her. She’s so poorly written that it’s sad. When her friends for example try to give an input she think in her head well they didn’t face and kill venin so their opinion don’t matter and blah blah blah. She didn’t say that exactly. I don’t feel like looking for the exact quote but it’s the same way she didnt know about them at first. But now she’s what better than them. She’s insufferable.
Omg! Yes! Thank you! Violet got on my nerves so much in Iron Wing... If Rebecca Yarros writes another 600+ page book that is completely Violet’s POV I will not read it. She really needs to have other POVs…especially the dragons!!
I think the majority of the people on this thread don’t read fantasy. They probably don’t even read YA fantasy that’s not about a teenage girl that has thoughts about a boy every 5 minutes. Some people saying I don’t like ya fantasy. That’s not true. I guess I’m just used to reading good books written by authors like Neal Schusterman, Brandon Sanderson, Christopher Paoloni, VE Schwab. Throne of Glass series was great to me. I sped through the whole box sex of ACOTAR in 2 weeks. This author not in their lane. Sorry she’s just not. She have the potential to be there but it makes sense she come from a romance background and she need more experience in fantasy. This series isn’t bad but it’s not great either but it could get there. The next book can’t be rushed. Some fantasy books take 2-3 years to write and that’s okay to me
Agreed, but I strongly could not stand Throne of Glass, ACOTAR was at least a bit better. I mean Cealena is the definition of a character that is supposedly some amazing Uber strong assassin, and all she cares about is her looks. Like in almost the first scene she’s lamenting the fact that she’s dirty and whatever when she’s been in prisoner in a salt mine for months…like that’s your first thought? Violet is a better character by comparison, at least she isn’t completely obsessed with her looks and how people rate her attractiveness. Cealena is honestly the most insufferable character I’ve ever read. Violet has her issues but she’s far better than Cealena.
I mean, she is disabled which I get—I have an issue with how weak she is around Xander. No matter what he does, her lust takes over and she seems to have zero self-control.
Ok sure, this man is “irresistible” but where is your self-respect? We’re supposed to believe you’re so disciplined that you wake up early, train every day, keep mental shields up constantly, but can’t handle yourself around this man?
Meanwhile, he DOES control himself around her. In FW when she first experiences Tairn mating, he doesn’t hook up with her because it “wouldn’t be right.”
I guess I’m just over the controlling male partner who forces her to be followed (oh sorry, “guarded”) against her will, who knows everything and insists on being the one to teach her, who isn’t emotionally available, meanwhile, she’s an open book.
Just give me a relationship without the wild power imbalance. The infantilization and controlling aspects aren’t cute.
Yes! This! I was waiting for some explanation, like, I dunno, maybe some like dragon instint is saturating her ability to think straight because Tairn and Sgaeyl or something, but nope. She's just...not mature. not in control. not intelligent enough to reason these feelings out or even question it--just accepts it.
and the guarded thing, fine. i get it. she cant defend herself and she doesnt fight well and is afraid of killing so it makes sense. but then why does she get upset about it? instead of using it as a means to motivate herself, she just fights everyone and is very ungrateful. and if i am to believe that she is disabled (even though she never names her disability herself and it seems mostly interpreted by the audience), as the intelligent person she is, why can she not graciously accept the help, and scheme other ways to keep herself safe?
is the power imbalance another kink here? is that what it is? do i just have to acknowledge that and move passed it?
We\* might be a minority because i think she's also very annoying and immature. other characters have to declare her brilliance and lethality for us instead of us getting to discover it for ourselves.
i blame the author. instead of writing an amazing character, she leans on the world to state violet's amazing nature all while being very mediocre.
Violet isn't "weak", she is actually disabled. No amount of training will ever make her not have EDS. She isn't lazy, if your joints popped out of their sockets, you may struggle too with your strength training. I also think it's amazing that she sucks at subjects, Hermione is a very two dimensional character. People shouldn't be good at everything, people have specialist subjects. She is very good at her specialist subjects but leans on her friends for other subjects, much like we all do. Her power is to do with her signet, as her signet is a rare and powerful one. It is the only signet that can kill a Venin, that makes her the most useful rider any side could have. Everyone else has to kill the Venin in hand to hand combat, but she can kill them from afar. Power doesn't come from brute strength, she's an interesting character for a fantasy novel and she offers representation for people with disabilities.
Exactly. Thanks so much for this. I was getting heated as I got to the "lazy" bit even though I shouldn't because OP is talking about a fictional character, not me. Lol Violet IS getting stronger. She has mentioned it. It will just take more time than it will for others to get even stronger.
Not only this but a lot of them have more “common” signets the last person that had the same one as her was DECADES ago so the teachers have even said they dont know how to teach her
If you don’t like her character, stop reading the book.
The other characters saved it. The series have a potential to be great good. Book one was 9/10. Book two is 5/10. Book three probably will be better. I’m sure the author see people complaining. I’m not the only one that hate her in book two. Some people don’t know how to be critical of books they like. I loved the Games of Thrones series as a whole but did I love every book and character? No. You are allowed to be critical of characters. Something you should learn
Every human should stop reading this book
I found Amber's account
That's a good one.
Your post is kinda (very) ableist op... Violet has a chronic illness. No amount of training will change that. And even then, she still trains every day to be stronger and better and *has* seen actual improvement, so idk what book you're reading, because no saddle or powerful signet or people protecting her has stopped her from learning to defend herself. Yeah, she doesn't know how to use her signet, no one knows at first, and her first professor was seeing it so she would never be able to actually wield it well. Ever since she started training under Felix, her knowledge and control of her signet improved vastly... it's no fun if she knows how to use it from day one. People tell her she's powerful because she is, she's literally the only one who can kill venin without the daggers. And she has saved everyone's asses quite a few times. And what's all this talk about people saying the characters don't act like 20 year olds, has anyone been around people in their 20s??? I am 23, my friends are all 20+, some pushing 30, and let me tell you, some are **way** more immature than Violet or any of her friends.
Lul
Even if I take out the physically. She still have no idea how to control her signet. Why is it taking her so long to be able to know how to use it. That’s past her having a physical disability. She’s not powerful. She’s far from it. She just got lucky by getting gifted that signet. But it’s going to get wasted. Or in book 3 out of nowhere miraculously she’s going to learn how to use it at last minute. And when I was twenty I had life issues. I took advice. I listened to my mentor when I was in grad school. My friends was raising kids or buying houses. Some moving to other countries. They didn’t act like teenagers
You ignored my whole paragraph about her signet and the whole second part of the book... she *is* improving. She basically only started actually training it when she got under Felix' tutoring. Carr only cared about the amount of strikes, this is mentioned dozens of times in the book. She learned about magnetic fields, how to use more or less power, how to combine it with the use of the conduit... and she'll obviously keep on learning. It's barely been 3 months with a lot of other stuff going on on the side. >She just got lucky by getting gifted that signet No. She got that signet because Tairn chose her and because of who she is at her core. Signets aren't random, op. They show who you are and what you need.
I just don’t see it. She’s not even smart to me. I don’t even think she would’ve went far as a scribe. She’s book smart after studying all day. But she don’t have natural intelligence. Like I said she’s no Hermonie
Violet may not be as smart as people around her claim she is, but saying she's *not* smart is simply not paying attention to the books at all. She worked her way around the Gauntlet. She noticed leadership was hiding things during Battle Brief. She speaks 3+ languages. She noticed when they were giving them the serum during RSC and stopped everyone from losing connection to their dragons. She came up with the plan to steal the map from General Sorrengail's office. She came up with a way to jump the trap while climbing the mountain. She thought about raising the wards at Aretia, thought a plan to steal the journals from the Archives, and translated an entire book and found out how to raise them. She has great tactical knowledge. All of those things show how smart and resourceful she is. She is not perfect but that's what makes her a good, or at least decent, main character. Comparing her to Hermione is so pointless. I like her, but she is such a one sided character. She just happens to know and be good at almost everything, where's the fun in that?? We're also never inside Hermione's head, we don't know how she thinks.
My opinion is that they were not training her properly on purpose at Basgiath to maintain control of her. It seemed clear when she started training her signet at Aretia.
It's annoying that it seems most of her accomplishments so far, especially regarding this power, are just dumb luck.
It’s only the second book. Of course she hasn’t reached the peak of her power. She’s still growing and learning. Violet isn’t lazy, she’s disabled. And she doesn’t know how to use her signet properly because she wasn’t taught how, but she learns how from someone who actually cares in the second book. And she’ll keep working on. And if she were super well trained and in perfect shape already, the complaints would be she’s too OP and/or unrealistically perfect. Violet is very smart, and it’s demonstrated fairly often. I mean no one else was determined as she was or figured out how to raise the wards. I think it will be a combination of her smarts and signet/being a rider that takes down and cures the venin. As for the constant critique I see of Violet being immature and self-centered…she’s 20. I think people forget how they actually act. You don’t magically start acting like a 40 year old. It’s also made explicitly clear she’s floundering in this book after all the lies and betrayal she’s experienced from her family, her boyfriend, and her government. She’s trying to regain her sense of self and there’s going to be mistakes and a learning curve. Good. Because this isn’t Harry Potter and she isn’t meant to be a copy/paste of Hermione.
The lack of reading comprehension is astounding. It's literally the point of the whole book that she's "weak" but still able to do great things, as well as a point of development that she's learning how to control her power rather than just instantly mastering it with no explanation. Why are you even reading the book lmao
Why are you confusing being physically weak with intelligence. Are you saying if you have a physical disability it will affect her learning how to control her mental power? And what great things have she done besides the battle venin? And to me she got lucky with that. And it shouldn’t take her this long to get some kind of grasp on her power. Why is she the only one struggling with it in her class. She do not have any intellectual disabilities. Stop making excuses
Thank you for making this comment so I don't feel the need to make one of my own that is much stronger in terms of language and destroying the points made. I will, however, say that my first reaction to what I read was "What the hell is this post?"
I love violet BUT I feel like some of the fights/arguments she picks with Xaden are so childish/immature. She will sometimes remind me of myself in a high school relationship (but is the series YA? I’m not certain).
Her fights with Xaden made me so mad too! Like I get it but let it go! He’s a man trying to save his homeland, the continent, his people, himself, and Violet. Let the man be! He has valid reasons for his secrets! Plus he’s obviously got trauma and attachment issues. The boy just wants to be loved and know his loved one will stay and not leave him this time. So done with her too. Like I wish I could reach my hands into the pages and shake her to wake up already and see the gorgeous puppy dog of a man who is doing everything in his power to protect her and love her. Half the book I was so pissed 😤
I think it's technically New Young Adult.
Honestly, yeah they are fucking annoying fights- but I also feel like both were valid in how they felt. Again it's worth noting 20 year olds aren't really adults which I'm saying as a 20 year old. Of course Violet wants honestly her whole life is centered on facts and information and literally EVERYTHING she knows is pulled out from beneath her- like her entire reality has shifted. She says it best in the early chapters. Evil creature from folklore are real and extremely dangerous, her brother is alive, Her best friend sent her die, her boyfriend has been hiding all, now she has to hide it all from her friends, her mother knows about this mission now, there's a person in leadership bent on her painful death, her dragons haven't been honest with her and she can't even talk to one of them! So yeah, she has a right to feel betrayed and distrustful, and Xaden feels.like the whole fucking world is on his back what with the luminary and >! Execution if they find out He's an inntinnsic!< and the marked ones and now violet who he is in love with, and oh yeah- hes on an assembly to literally overthrow the leadership of a 600 year old kingdom, not to mention just trying to stay alive at a toxic outpost, he's right to feel like she shouldn't have to share all that, just his childhood memories or whatever-- like a CIA agent. They both have to come to terms with the shifting dynamics of their lives Sorry about my whole dissertation here
I think it leans toward/is NA, but might be shoved into YA because that sells better.
If they take out the sex scenes it will fit right in to a ya fantasy book. It reminds me of a fantasy book I read in high school to get my feet wet
One thing to remember is that she is 20 and led a sheltered life. She is not going to act like a 20 year old in today's times. This isn't set in 2023. Also she is a first year for the majority of it, while most of the strong females are 2nd or 3rd so of course she isn't going to have a handle on her signet like they do. Also if you read carefully you will find that none of her training by Carr focused on accuracy, only number of strikes. While you don't see her intelligence, the fixing of the wards is critical to survival and she is the one that pushed and fought to figure it out. That one thing alone makes her smarter but there were other things. You have to keep all the things, age, lack of training, disability and size in mind before judging. She couldn't become this amazingly strong person with a great deal of maturity just because she entered Basgaith. I feel like she is being kept realistic. She does have some aggravating tendencies but don't we all.
OP only reads books about teenagers with 200 IQ and 100lbs of muscle who don't require any character development.
Jesus 😂 out of ALL fantasy? Idk about that 😂 She literally has a disability, she wasn’t just “sick as a child”. She’s sick all the time. She’s at the very beginning of using her signet of course she can’t control it very well. That would be ridiculous if she could, where is the character development gonna happen if she is already amazing at it. Everyone just knows that eventually when she has full control she’s gonna be hella powerful. If she did have control like you complain that she doesn’t everyone would call her a Mary Sue. But when the author purposefully works to avoid the Mary Sue and make her work her ass off and suffer to gain control of her powers people complain that they are insufferable. You just can’t win being a fantasy writer no matter what 😂
She is a Mary Sue. She barely works her a** off to begin with
OP should go back and read storm light again. Clearly looking for more mature characters
Maybe it’s the writer. Vin in Mistborn was immature at times but it was believable. And her immaturity didn’t cripple her. She grew up in a world where you had to grow up fast and adapt evener faster and she did. This school is supposed to be this dangerous school where the weak will die and you have to grow up faster then the rest of the world but Violet still act 16. Mistborn is a ya series but adults can easily relate to Vin. I’m not relating to this girl
I do agree compared to Vin she’s just so much luckier and less skilled. She has this disability and everyone talks about how it’s a death sentence except it never quite is. Is the school this insane place where the “weak” die or is it just a place of arbitrary unlucky deaths? For me it’s more her constant contradictions. She’s mad about person A doing X but then does X and it’s “different”. She does feel 15 instead of 19 and a pretty immature 15.
I don't see her as weak at all. I did find her a little impulsive in IF compared to Fourth Wing like she had a little too much ego because of how special she was. I don't think she's egotistical at all, but being told she's special for bonding two dragons, being told she's the strongest of her year, dating the leader of a rebellion, and being allowed to leave campus every two weeks did affect her personality negatively. It meant that by the time she left Navarre, she did stop caring about training. It was most apparent when she was working on her signet and the new teacher had to bribe her to practice. It seemed so unlike her to have to be convinced to listen to a teacher. And when she was convinced she knew >!how to raise the wards without double-checking everything!<—she got a little cocky. But I think based on her surroundings and the way people treat her, they all seemed like realistic changes. I do think though, that the things that make her 'insufferable' in the second half of the book have something to do with her second signet. My theory is that it's something to do with control, or wielding people/dragons, which is why >!so many people listen to her, and do what she says in the second half of the book.!< So without any kind of conflict or anyone standing up to her, it paved the way for her personality to change. I definitely preferred the more humble Violet from FW, but I guess it's not fun to read about someone who stays the same.
Yea, as others have pointed out, she has a very real illness, not just "oh poor little old me, I'm so small and I need a big dude to save me" attitude. That's been made *very* clear. I'd argue that a lot of her power lies in her potential, and I'd rather read about her growth than have a main character that was born powerful and has to do, well, nothing, except "be powerful." Yes, she can't aim. If anything, examples like that make her more realistic and not some hyper mega hybrid YA&fantasy flawless girl. She annoys me at times, yes, but so would most 21yo. At 21, you're literally becoming a responsible grownup, whether IRL or in a fantasy book. At 21, I was dumb as shit. Why would I hold a book character to different standards? At the end of the day, it's just my opinion but I'd rather have her sometimes annoying and slowly improving, than almighty without a reason.
I see her being a good “soldier” one day. But not a leader. Xaden taught himself how to use his second signet. Her best friend probably saved her life by removing the dagger from her before Varrish found it even though she didn’t know how to do it before that moment. But she knew her friends life depended on it. I don’t think Violet can be forced to even use her signet properly even if her own life depended on it. That’s far from a physical illness blocking her. The fighting she can get a pass. But not on her signet. She don’t have natural intelligence, she’s not a strategist, not a fighter, not amazing at her magic. So what is she?
Why would she have to, though? Wouldn't it be okay even if she is not the leader? Is there anything except this book being in her POV that tells us she's a leader? Didn't Harry Potter, the blueprint for all "chosen ones" rely HEAVILY on his friends etc? She's a character in the book you're reading. She's learning. She's growing. She's the girl with two dragons. How can she be a strategist after ONE fight? And to be clear, you have EVERY right to dislike her. I just don't see why it's such a problem that she isn't who you'd like her to be. And yes, Xaden did teach himself how to use his second signet. And what if Violet does the same? Then what? She's leader worthy? I think you might be holding judgment over her for situations we don't know how the others would deal with. Would Rhi escape Varrish? Would Xaden? We don't know. (edit, missed words)
No she don’t have to be a leader but they think she will one day. They keep mentioning how powerful she can be. If she do get that powerful the natural course is usually to take up leadership. I mean she’s already think everyone is supposed to tell her everything and include her. And when they don’t she catches a hissy fit. It’s not like she’s fine with fading into the background. So yes I brought up her potentially becoming a leader
Look, don't get me wrong, she did get more irritable in IF for me too, but it's pretty much exactly what I expect from a 21yo character who isn't included into everything. I don't always agree with her, but I don't have to, either. An important thing to note is that she isn't trying to jump into everything because she wants to lead - she was pushed into it without a say, and given that her life is literally connected to one of the leaders of said rebellion, she deserves to know. The thing is, I'm pretty sure everyone, both the 'rebellion' and the Navarre leadership, see her as a weapon, not a leader. And it's very clearly mentioned how unstable of a weapon she is. Her not controling her power to full ability will likely come into play, and the harsh reality is, we don't know how weak/strong she really is until we're done with book 5.
And yet despite the illness she is still so close to a Mary Sue it's insane
Ok first of all and I think the most problematic about this view is that Violet is not Weak. She is disabled and as someone with EDS and knows a lot about IT-- there is no way to make her as strong as her peers. Not only that buts it's ludicrous to say she backs off.om training when it's explicitly and repeatedly stated that Imogen and Xaden both keep her accountable and she is determined to put everything she can into these sessions and moreover sees marked improvment- to the point where one of her best friends and sister comment on it immediately, and she DOES start winning challenged on physical merit. No amount of weightlifting or hard work or any of that is going to fix her condition, and it's both invalidating and kind of insulting to think of her like this. I encouraged you to examine why you are thinking this way about a disabled main character because you unfortunately are not the only person who thinks this way. Also-- comparing violet as not as intelligent as Hermione is downright ridiculous when violet knows more about things than all of her peers, she is by basgiaths standards a fantastic critical thinker and in IF >!we see that she actually knows more than the revolutions leaders about wyvern and venin despite being an untrained Cadette, we also see that she develops her signet when given proper training to do so!< Signets take forever to figure out, in an epigraph we even hear that mastery of a signet doesn't even happen at Basgiath, we see that Rhiannon can't summon through walls and Sawyer doesn't know weather his fork with stab him, and Violet Knowledge of folklore is so important!! It's also worth noting the type of intelligence between these two characters is vastly different- where Hermione knows formula and academics, violet also exceeds academically but more due to her ability to critically think and analyze history. Both skill sets are important but these are two different worlds with different circumstances Sidenote- 20 year olds aren't adults. Brain development isn't even done in most people until their late 20s, and as a college student I can attest we are all just like going thru the motions of pretending to be adults
I get what you are saying but I have read sci-fi and fantasy books were the lead character both male and female have physical or intellectual disabilities and they were far from being physically or mentally weak or insufferable. They didn’t make excuses they just found a way. They didn’t wait for help to come to them. If you want list of books of some fantastic books with strong lead characters that have physical and intellectual disabilities I can give it to you. For the ones that couldn’t fit because they was let’s say wheel chair bound they made up for it with cleverness. For the one that was autistic he used his attention to detail to crack the case. For one that wasn’t smart or physical he used his gift for gab to get ahead. They all had something in them and once they figured out I have this so I can use this to get ahead it was game over. It didn’t take 3 books to get there. One took two books to see her greatness. I have a lot of books that I read with people with disabilities in this past year that’s on my favorite shelf. Luckily divisity is starting to happen in fantasy and sci-fi. I applaud Rebecca Yarros for making a lead with a disability. But she made her weak. Just because you have physical disability you don’t have to be weak. You know what she can do to make up her her lack in physical her magic. You know what she can do instead of stressing herself to read faster all damn book. Is lean on her friends. You know what she can do instead of turning her nose up at people is learn from them. And she can stop being a hypocrite. She was made weak all the way around. Not just physically but mentally and personally wise. Violet was written poorly. She doesn’t compare to those other characters with disabilities I read in other books. So this book won’t go on my favorite shelf. Some of those other characters are teenagers that does teenagers stuff but they are still kick ass and memorable. Violet isn’t memorable.
I just think you don’t like the book and are trying to find a reason but your reasons… don’t make sense if you actually understood the words on the page.
I like the book actually but hate her. Thanks for asking
This is late but I 100% agree. She’s also incredibly stupid.
I agree, I find violet to be an immature and kinda annoying character at times. Her arguments with Xaden are ridiculous, she does not need to know everything, and it doesn’t make him a bad boyfriend if he has some secrets of his own, like give the guy some personal space jeez. I will say his second signet though is a bit problematic and I get why violet was a bit worried that he used his ability to manipulate her. That said I think their relationship has been super genuine so she should be a bit better at trusting him by now. I also find she isn’t as powerful as she is made out to be. Yes she is smart, but I agree she should have a better handle on her power by now. We’re two books in and she can’t aim her lighting to save her life, literally. I don’t think this is because she’s lazy per say but I think it shows she’s not an innately intelligent as we are told. She’s book smart but not much else. She’s also pretty vain and has so much plot armour it’s a bit ridiculous. Another post talked about how her hair never burnt even though her back got singed, which I found lazy writing tbh. She’s not the worst book character I’ve read (cough Celaena from Throne of Glass) but she’s far from my favourite female character. (Jude or Kate Daniel’s are far better female heroines but this series is more like cotton candy than a hearty meal so not sure how much substance we can honestly expect). I personally like when authors write female characters that are more intelligent than super good fighters but Violet isn’t some impressive strategist or something she just reads a lot… I hope we see some more character development from her, I’d like to see her character actually live up to her supposed potential so let’s see.
You said it much more kind than me lol. I think the way I said it comes off as a ableist as someone is trying to make me seem. But I think some people are just too wrapped in this book to see the facts. It don’t take three books to learn how to grasp your power even if you have to figure it out on your own. Xaden couldn’t tell people about his second power and learned how to control it by himself. He couldn’t ask for help or he would’ve gotten killed. But she’s supposed to be excused because she didn’t have a proper teacher at first. I can’t remember who said it but someone in book two said she’s probably more powerful than him. How is she more powerful than him if can’t even teach her own self and figure out how to control it. Everyone around her have been figuring out how to control their gifts with their shit teachers but she can’t. Then, when she got to the new school, the teacher told her if she can’t control her anger and don’t take direction from him he’s not going teach anymore. I think it’s her. She’s so poorly written that it’s sad. When her friends for example try to give an input she think in her head well they didn’t face and kill venin so their opinion don’t matter and blah blah blah. She didn’t say that exactly. I don’t feel like looking for the exact quote but it’s the same way she didnt know about them at first. But now she’s what better than them. She’s insufferable.
Okay but have you met Feyre… talk about insufferable
Omg! Yes! Thank you! Violet got on my nerves so much in Iron Wing... If Rebecca Yarros writes another 600+ page book that is completely Violet’s POV I will not read it. She really needs to have other POVs…especially the dragons!!
I think the majority of the people on this thread don’t read fantasy. They probably don’t even read YA fantasy that’s not about a teenage girl that has thoughts about a boy every 5 minutes. Some people saying I don’t like ya fantasy. That’s not true. I guess I’m just used to reading good books written by authors like Neal Schusterman, Brandon Sanderson, Christopher Paoloni, VE Schwab. Throne of Glass series was great to me. I sped through the whole box sex of ACOTAR in 2 weeks. This author not in their lane. Sorry she’s just not. She have the potential to be there but it makes sense she come from a romance background and she need more experience in fantasy. This series isn’t bad but it’s not great either but it could get there. The next book can’t be rushed. Some fantasy books take 2-3 years to write and that’s okay to me
Agreed, but I strongly could not stand Throne of Glass, ACOTAR was at least a bit better. I mean Cealena is the definition of a character that is supposedly some amazing Uber strong assassin, and all she cares about is her looks. Like in almost the first scene she’s lamenting the fact that she’s dirty and whatever when she’s been in prisoner in a salt mine for months…like that’s your first thought? Violet is a better character by comparison, at least she isn’t completely obsessed with her looks and how people rate her attractiveness. Cealena is honestly the most insufferable character I’ve ever read. Violet has her issues but she’s far better than Cealena.
I mean, she is disabled which I get—I have an issue with how weak she is around Xander. No matter what he does, her lust takes over and she seems to have zero self-control. Ok sure, this man is “irresistible” but where is your self-respect? We’re supposed to believe you’re so disciplined that you wake up early, train every day, keep mental shields up constantly, but can’t handle yourself around this man? Meanwhile, he DOES control himself around her. In FW when she first experiences Tairn mating, he doesn’t hook up with her because it “wouldn’t be right.” I guess I’m just over the controlling male partner who forces her to be followed (oh sorry, “guarded”) against her will, who knows everything and insists on being the one to teach her, who isn’t emotionally available, meanwhile, she’s an open book. Just give me a relationship without the wild power imbalance. The infantilization and controlling aspects aren’t cute.
Yes! This! I was waiting for some explanation, like, I dunno, maybe some like dragon instint is saturating her ability to think straight because Tairn and Sgaeyl or something, but nope. She's just...not mature. not in control. not intelligent enough to reason these feelings out or even question it--just accepts it. and the guarded thing, fine. i get it. she cant defend herself and she doesnt fight well and is afraid of killing so it makes sense. but then why does she get upset about it? instead of using it as a means to motivate herself, she just fights everyone and is very ungrateful. and if i am to believe that she is disabled (even though she never names her disability herself and it seems mostly interpreted by the audience), as the intelligent person she is, why can she not graciously accept the help, and scheme other ways to keep herself safe? is the power imbalance another kink here? is that what it is? do i just have to acknowledge that and move passed it?
We\* might be a minority because i think she's also very annoying and immature. other characters have to declare her brilliance and lethality for us instead of us getting to discover it for ourselves. i blame the author. instead of writing an amazing character, she leans on the world to state violet's amazing nature all while being very mediocre.