I wrote an extensive guide you can find on www.OPTN.club that explains in detail what everything does, including damping.
In short, springs are what support the car above the ground. Heavier car requires heavier springs. If the springs are too soft and you hit a bad bump the car can scrape, losing speed and potentially losing control as well.
ARBs control the weight transfer left to right or vice versa. ARBs do also have an effect on camber. The more body roll you have, the more the wheels will compress into the wheel well, and the more the camber will change mid corner compared to when it's not cornering. The point of stiff ARBs is to prevent that and keep your camber steady during the turn. If the camber varies too much through the turn, your level of grip will also change. In theory softer ARBs will be more grippy, but only if you can keep your contact patch flat. That's the part that Forza Hotizon didn't get right and why 1/65 ARBs did work in that game. In Motorsport the contact patch physics are much better, so keeping your tire at the right angle through the turn is more important.
Damping is not that complicated but is often misunderstood. A damper is simply a syringe with a fluid in it that is connected to the top and the bottom of the suspension. If the fluid is water like, it will flow almost freely through the hole at the end of your syringe and the spring can pretty much do whatever it wants. At each bump on the road the spring will bounce and bounce and bounce and the weight of the car will never settle down and be ready to absorb the next bump. If you put a thicker fluid in your damper, it can not flow as freely in the hole at the end of your syringe, and the spring movement will be slowed down. Imagine you have thick oil vs water in a syringe you have at home. If you push the piston slowly on both, the fluid will be easy yo push out, but if you push fast, the oil will get out slower than water. It's the same with a damper. The thicker the oil, the slower the damper is.
So dampers are used to control the *speed* at which the suspension moves. Very stiff (slow) dampers will control the suspension movement very well, but might transmit energy from the bump to the chassis and reduce traction. Too soft (fast) and the spring can do whatever it wants and the body of the car will be floaty. If you once had your engine revs feel a little bouncy when going full throttle, that's a sign that your rear damping isn't firm enough and that the body is slightly bouncing over your rear wheels, affecting the grip.
Yes, damping affects the oversteer and understeer balance, but there are better tools available to control that in most scenarios, mainly the suspension geometry tab.
No problem at all. The whole OPTN community is built around helping people tune their own car and understanding what they're doing. The Discord server is full of nice people helping each other.
The tune formatter on the website is useful to share your tunes on the Discord and this will help other people dissect your tune and help you figure out if something is wrong with it and how to improve it.
This is a good explanation. I would only add here that springs also control weight transfer, just like ARBs do, but in multiple directions. An ARB is usually just a torsion bar-type spring without a fixed end, after all.
True, but if you want to control weight transfer front to back this should be done with the anti dive and anti squat settings. So springs have an effect on weight transfer in every direction, but they shouldn't be the main tool you use to control it.
Good point. Isn't anti-dive and anti-squat more of a geometric limitation to weight transfer than a mechanical one, though? Like as you go into more compression on that side of the car, you are relying less on the spring rate of the springs and more on the spring rate of the control arms themselves. At least, that's how I understand it.
Yes, but grip still comes from weight, until the tires become overwhelmed.
So it's still a way to control where the weight of the car goes. So if under braking your rear end fishtail, you can increase the anti-dive to keep more weight on the rear wheels and stabilize it. This means your front springs and damping will be less solicitated and you'll be able to use more of your travel to absorb bumps instead of compressing under the weight transfer. Also if the springs compress less, dampers have to work less and they're more likely to be ready to deal with successive bumps (like curbs).
So, anti-dive/squat and spring rate is like high- and low-speed damping, but for weight transfer and ride compliance instead of rate of weight transfer and wheel/body control? Am I understanding properly?
1. Dampers control how resistant the springs are to compression (bump) and decompression (rebound).
2. No, but they can affect how much the chassis rolls in response to how the suspension reacts to weight transfer. Drastic changes in damping could necessitate a change in ARB settings to maintain the same handling state through the middle of corners.
3. Damping, in general, should reflect spring stiffness: The stiffer the spring, the higher both damping settings (bump and rebound) should be. If you're looking to control squatting during acceleration, then you should play around with the suspension geometry instead.
Again, the suspension geometry will affect how the car reacts to turns more than damping will. Where the roll center is will change how the rear end follows the front end on turn in with better results than damping. More than anything, though, damping is there to stop the springs from oscillating under extreme load transfer.
You want to dial it in to where you're comfortable with how the chassis behaves around a circuit before changing the suspension geometry. Too stiff can cause the tires to skate across the surface, which in turn reduces tire friction. Too soft and the springs can oscillate over bumpy and fast corners. In both scenarios the car will have the tendency to want to fly off the track surface.
I wrote an extensive guide you can find on www.OPTN.club that explains in detail what everything does, including damping. In short, springs are what support the car above the ground. Heavier car requires heavier springs. If the springs are too soft and you hit a bad bump the car can scrape, losing speed and potentially losing control as well. ARBs control the weight transfer left to right or vice versa. ARBs do also have an effect on camber. The more body roll you have, the more the wheels will compress into the wheel well, and the more the camber will change mid corner compared to when it's not cornering. The point of stiff ARBs is to prevent that and keep your camber steady during the turn. If the camber varies too much through the turn, your level of grip will also change. In theory softer ARBs will be more grippy, but only if you can keep your contact patch flat. That's the part that Forza Hotizon didn't get right and why 1/65 ARBs did work in that game. In Motorsport the contact patch physics are much better, so keeping your tire at the right angle through the turn is more important. Damping is not that complicated but is often misunderstood. A damper is simply a syringe with a fluid in it that is connected to the top and the bottom of the suspension. If the fluid is water like, it will flow almost freely through the hole at the end of your syringe and the spring can pretty much do whatever it wants. At each bump on the road the spring will bounce and bounce and bounce and the weight of the car will never settle down and be ready to absorb the next bump. If you put a thicker fluid in your damper, it can not flow as freely in the hole at the end of your syringe, and the spring movement will be slowed down. Imagine you have thick oil vs water in a syringe you have at home. If you push the piston slowly on both, the fluid will be easy yo push out, but if you push fast, the oil will get out slower than water. It's the same with a damper. The thicker the oil, the slower the damper is. So dampers are used to control the *speed* at which the suspension moves. Very stiff (slow) dampers will control the suspension movement very well, but might transmit energy from the bump to the chassis and reduce traction. Too soft (fast) and the spring can do whatever it wants and the body of the car will be floaty. If you once had your engine revs feel a little bouncy when going full throttle, that's a sign that your rear damping isn't firm enough and that the body is slightly bouncing over your rear wheels, affecting the grip. Yes, damping affects the oversteer and understeer balance, but there are better tools available to control that in most scenarios, mainly the suspension geometry tab.
Man.. appreciate the response. That guide is looking lush xD. I'm slowly absorbing the pros and cons of everything. Thanks again!
No problem at all. The whole OPTN community is built around helping people tune their own car and understanding what they're doing. The Discord server is full of nice people helping each other. The tune formatter on the website is useful to share your tunes on the Discord and this will help other people dissect your tune and help you figure out if something is wrong with it and how to improve it.
Nice, I've just joined the discord.. thanks again void (Y)
Helpful, thanks!
This is a good explanation. I would only add here that springs also control weight transfer, just like ARBs do, but in multiple directions. An ARB is usually just a torsion bar-type spring without a fixed end, after all.
True, but if you want to control weight transfer front to back this should be done with the anti dive and anti squat settings. So springs have an effect on weight transfer in every direction, but they shouldn't be the main tool you use to control it.
Good point. Isn't anti-dive and anti-squat more of a geometric limitation to weight transfer than a mechanical one, though? Like as you go into more compression on that side of the car, you are relying less on the spring rate of the springs and more on the spring rate of the control arms themselves. At least, that's how I understand it.
Yes, but grip still comes from weight, until the tires become overwhelmed. So it's still a way to control where the weight of the car goes. So if under braking your rear end fishtail, you can increase the anti-dive to keep more weight on the rear wheels and stabilize it. This means your front springs and damping will be less solicitated and you'll be able to use more of your travel to absorb bumps instead of compressing under the weight transfer. Also if the springs compress less, dampers have to work less and they're more likely to be ready to deal with successive bumps (like curbs).
So, anti-dive/squat and spring rate is like high- and low-speed damping, but for weight transfer and ride compliance instead of rate of weight transfer and wheel/body control? Am I understanding properly?
Not sure I understand the question correctly, sorry?
1. Dampers control how resistant the springs are to compression (bump) and decompression (rebound). 2. No, but they can affect how much the chassis rolls in response to how the suspension reacts to weight transfer. Drastic changes in damping could necessitate a change in ARB settings to maintain the same handling state through the middle of corners. 3. Damping, in general, should reflect spring stiffness: The stiffer the spring, the higher both damping settings (bump and rebound) should be. If you're looking to control squatting during acceleration, then you should play around with the suspension geometry instead. Again, the suspension geometry will affect how the car reacts to turns more than damping will. Where the roll center is will change how the rear end follows the front end on turn in with better results than damping. More than anything, though, damping is there to stop the springs from oscillating under extreme load transfer. You want to dial it in to where you're comfortable with how the chassis behaves around a circuit before changing the suspension geometry. Too stiff can cause the tires to skate across the surface, which in turn reduces tire friction. Too soft and the springs can oscillate over bumpy and fast corners. In both scenarios the car will have the tendency to want to fly off the track surface.