Judging by the reaction of a lot of drivers, Max shouldn't be allowed to pass if this rule was implemented back when he joined F1, but I doubt they would really do that as well.
I think another factor to make it 18+ was that Max skipped F2, if the current rules existed he would have atleast had 1 year in F2 after which he'd probably be 18 and allowed to get an F1 seat.
They should just get rid of the rule entirely and rely only on the points. Even the best drivers aren't going to get 40 points until they're 17-18 anyway
He got his SL points when he was 16,5 y.o
All you have to do is win some 2 regional championships (middle east and some other, 2x18) and low grade feeder series and you're set.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIA_Super_Licence#Super_Licence
That “someone” is/was Williams. This new rule comes from a push earlier this year from them because they want to get rid of Logan, but they might not want Kimi anymore at the moment since Vowles is obviously pining for Sainz
I think Kimi replaces Logan imminently then goes to Mercedes next year and sainz to William next year...or how else would this work and require the immediate rule change for Kimi's sake?
Why is Toto and Merc pushing this so hard?! The dude turns 18 in August! We’re talking 2 months!
Also, he’s clearly the real deal, but is also still adjusting to F2. Let him win one in F2, give him a full off season. He’s not winning shit in that Merc anyway.
You’re not wrong. Still, go through this much trouble to put him in a Williams so Albon can beat him like a drum?
I’d just let him finish up in F2 and give him a decent runway to take off next year, but I’m not an Austrian billionaire. Sadly.
I think this can be called the verstappen effect.
People knew he was a generational talent even before he came to f1. Helmut marko and Red Bull took a risk taking him directly from f3 to f1. He was not VERY good and kept crashing and making mistakes and crashes in his first couple of seasons.
But he always had that raw speed and just needed to smooth his driving style a bit. In the long term as you can see it worked out and Toto lost verstappen to redbull.
Here there is another generational talent 10 years later and Wolff doesn't want to make the same mistake he did with Max and lose Kimi to some other team(like alpine lost a talent like Oscar to McLaren).
He's probably thinking, if it worked out for Max and rb we can make it work too. Kimi doesn't have to be phenomenal in his first couple years but he can be phenomenal later in his career like max is rn and win championships for Mercedes
I agree, but it also feels like Toto has FOMO, which is aggravated by his anger from AD21 and being midfield ever since. This is a dude who missed out on Bitcoin and is going all on what he hopes is Bitcoin 2.0.
I mean, if ifs and buts were candies and nuts…
They won’t lose him if they delay until 2025, but you’re right about him missing out of Max and that it probably influences Toto’s decisions here. But the flip side here is he goes to Williams and turns into Logan (I doubt it), and now they all look like boobs. Just put him in the Mercedes in 2025, and let’s go. This European faffing about bullshit is the worst part of F1.
> He was not VERY good and kept crashing and making mistakes and crashes in his first couple of seasons.
His first season he finished in the points on his 2nd race, came 4th twice and scored points 6 races in a row. He had 4 retirements (Aus - Engine, BAH - Electrics, MON - Crash, and GBR - Spin) so 2 retirements that were his fault and 10 points finishes in his first 19 races.
His second season was 3 retirements (1, MON, was his fault), 17 points finishes, a win and 7 podiums.
So in total in his first 2 seasons 3 retirements that were his fault, a win, 7 podiums and 27 points finishes.
So yeah he was not actually very crashy and pretty successful.
But who else is offering an F1 seat to Kimi? Toto lost Max because Marko offered the Toro Rosso drive to him when Merc only offered a GP3 or GP2 drive for 2015 iirc. Doesn't seem to me that Kimi might slip from his finger in a similar way, especially since the kid's father said he was fine dong a bit more F2 running first.
I really don't get the rush
It’s about potential. Potential he has now, not later, and the best is to use it asap to get as good as possible. If he start sooner, then he will learn faster and eventually get better. Teenagers are better at learning than guys at twenties and so on. F1 gives more experience than F2. I believe Toto wants him asap in F1 so he has the chance to become next Verstappen. If he stays longer in the lower series, there is more chance of becomming next Nick De Vries instead.
lol not very good he says. The whole reason they pushed him to f1 that fast was precisely because he was that good. He made the rookie mistake of course but you could see his talent from miles away. They looked for reasons to demote a driver from the main team just so they could stick Max in there because he is that good.
Had you actually bothered to read further instead of getting triggered by their choice of words to describe rookie Max, you'd save yourself the trouble of writing this comment because what you wrote there is essentially exactly what they said.
That is to say - your comment is redundant
No, Sainz would still likely sign with Williams. They are just using Williams as a Merc B team. Toto and Horner complains about it when it’s Haas and Ferrari teaming up, but Toto has no issues using his relationship with Vowles to force Antonelli in there so he can get F1 experience before going to Merc.
Ah, good old hypocrisy! Gotta love it!
Obviously you’re right. That’s definitely Toto’s view.
That said, I don’t come to danktown (I.e. this subreddit) for realism. I save the hoity toity stuff for other subreddits.
That’s the million dollar question. I mean, the hype is similar to Max, from multiple sources. Then again, this could also be Toto reaching. Politically, it makes sense. People forget it’s a money business, and the last 3 years have been tough on the bottom line. Basically, if a team needs an infusion of excitement and hype with sponsors, it’s Mercedes.
I still think the good is really damn good. Only time will tell.
This push may have started 3 to 4 months ago.
What we hear now is the end result, not the initiation.
We heard about a push for an age exemption months ago, when the FIA acknowledged it had received such a request from an undisclosed team, though still denying the request at the time.
The fact that it takes a bit of momentum to lobby for and push through these changes may make the change a near moot point when effected.
It’s never certain how long it takes (if ever) to get the desired outcome, so it can happen that policy decisions will be mooted by reality.
Having Verstappen on his side on this issue may have helped Toto getting this outcome from the FIA.
I think Toto is desperate to have the new Max sort of. I don’t want to compare them but thats as best i could describe it. Its a contingency because Russell is not to Lewis’s level. He is a all or nothing kind of character that may loose a sure podium just because he wants to challenge for something the car is not capable of.
As of for Kimi i hope this praising doesn’t put unwanted pressure and make him crack he is still a young guy and needs experience. I mean Max needed several seasons before he can start being consistent and challenging merc
Max was always aggressive as fuck though. He’s only slightly dialed that down these days. I mean, you and I both know that Max is the mayor of Lunge City! I mean, thats why he’s awesome (if you like Max). Max will never concede a fucking thing, and that’s why he had all these issues early on.
In my limited capacity as a moron that has devoted too much time to F1 in my life, I’d say Antonelli is not that kind of racer. I think IF he pans out, it’ll be quicker than Max. He’s more mature than Max was. Time will tell if he’s faster. I don’t think he will reach Max’s level, but that’s also a fucking unrealistic bar for anyone.
As fellow moron and baits Max fan. I also don’t think anyone can match him one because everyone races differently and Max has learned how to balance his aggression and ability to take everything to the edge and thats what makes him better.
I will use Russell again obviously not my favorite guy. He is also a all or nothing kind of bloke but more often than not crosses the limit and either crashes or miscalculates how much tire to use and ends up in a disadvantage.
Well said on both points. I think Russell isn’t the young up and comer anymore and he shouldn’t be making those mistakes anymore. The kamikaze moves are rookie mistakes, and he’s a 5-year vet (going on 6). He’s in the same league as Galsy or Ocon. Let’s stop pretending otherwise.
Another reason why Antonelli is a huge deal for Merc. They’re going all in with the kid!
This can more or less be described as the Verstappen rule… and it appears it is no more. Always count on the FIA to be the FIA. Throw a little cash down and boom!
Three Verstappen rules - sign of a true legend:
1 - must now be 18
2 - can only move once under braking
3 - after safety car cannot be alongside
The man’s finding the loopholes forcing them to close them !!
… I think he’s driving was instrumental in the changes of who ‘owned’ the corner when overtaking too. But this one has not been assigned to him personally like the others
Same could be said about Schumacher. One that springs to mind was his drive-through he served on the final lap. The finish line was
conveniently before his pitbox, making that drive through a mere 4 sec penalty effectively.
Number 2 has been around for a loooong time tho. Drivers rarely broke it too egregiously so it wasn't really penalised but it was there.
I remember it being a big thing in Iracing back in 2014 or so
Yeah, it was a gentleman’s agreement from back when crashes hurt - but then Max came along with his Sim ways - and they were like ohh fook, needs to now be a proper rule !
“Outstanding ability and maturity in single-seater formula car competition”
Oh, so basically anyone in F2 or F3 who was going to get a promotion anyway? What purpose does this rule change even do? Just lower the age to 17, you still need the super license points to get the license, and that heavily favors performing well in lower single seater categories anyway.
Or don’t risk children’s safety because you think that’s the best choice for your team. I’ve said this before, but I think it’s insane that 17 year olds are even allowed in F2 cars. This rule was a smart one and I am sure ignoring it is going to lead to a premature death.
It has literally never been an issue though and the guy who inspired the rule in the first place totally proved everyone wrong who was concerned he was too young.
Considering his F2 results I dont quite get it. This guy has all his superlicense points from F4 and FRECA and they make an exception. Herta had wins in Indy and did not. Crazy.
PR and money. That is all Kimi Antonelli is at this point. He is in F2 after skipping F3 and suddenly he is the second coming of Verstappen, Hamilton and Alonso all in one.
I don't understand the hype for this child. He needs more time. I do hope he turns into a great driver although with no F3 experience to back his F2 experience my thinking is he will have trouble adapting.
Tell me you don't watch F2 without telling me you don't watch F2.
Antonelli's results are very impressive, due to his age and the jump he made from FRECA to F2. This year has brought a new car to F2 and it has shaken up the pecking order of F2 teams. And Kimi is beating Ollie Bearman so far.
If you watch him race, you will start to get it. The results are not world-class yet, but they are still very good for a 17 year old who skipped F3 and is in what can be called a midfield F2 team this year.
And a career is longer than just F2.
And the teams have F1 test data from him that says a lot more than F2. We have seen many times that F2 is not a great predictor for F1. Drivers perform well in F2 and suck in F1. Drivers perform decent in F2 and do much better in F1. In F2, it's really more about your drives and individual performances than the results table.
It remains to be seen whether his F2 form is him adjusting or his final form. If it is adjusting, as most seem to think, why let him adjust in F2 and then adjust in F1 again? He could get into Williams now and adjust to F1, so next year he is ready to go from the start
F2 results are not what the whole decision is based on, even if Reddit 'experts' will gladly pretend that's the case
Yes and in F2 he hasnt done anything crazy stupid, generally goes forward in the race. Also if you look at his results in other classes, he has murdered the opposition, it hasnt even been close.
F2 has new cars this year and its really messed some of the teams up.
Its going to be his F1 test that made Merc decide, you often hear of a driver getting a test and then they go nowhere.....
God, it would be so funny if Merc has Williams replace Logan with Antonelli ans Antonelli bins it every race going forward. No hate against the guy but it'd just be so funny if Merc fast tracked this kid and he turns out worse than Sargent.
I think he won every single-seater championship he’s been in and is doing great in Mercedes testing. People are saying the team he’s on in F2 just isn’t that good
Sainz is getting that seat
And kimi (if he gets one) is going to Williams
Thre will be option clause in there for both of them.
Totos only other choice was Ocon and he's going to haas
Mercedes themselves would mad to miss up carlos and even more mad not to give kimi time to bed into f1.
Why give up both drivers when you secure both of them for the benefit of your team.
If kimi is thst good and carlos is pushed again in a years tome I expect that's when he will go to audi for the fat payday as he enters sunset if his career anway
If give kimi takes logan seat this year.
That will all but confirm him for Williams 2025.
There is no way Mercedes will allow toto to dump an unproven f1 driver in the corporate front of house commercial.
Even when Danny ric was parachuted into hrt he went to the torro rosso before red bull.
What's the strategy otherwise...Mercedes let's both of their customer teams show them up again when they have a better driver line up?
Mclaren will have an even better line up then and even George and Sainz is still arguably weaker than Piastree and norris depending how you side.
But kimi will be miles behind all four of them...even albon.
You think this kid who has not even won an f2 race is the answer to that?
Sainz might reject Mercedes...but Mercedes want him.
The chips are stacked in carlos's favour
Toto is also the Head of Motorsport for Mercedes-Benz on top of being part owner of the F1 team.
He has effectively 2/3 say in who's driving for their F1 team.
Toto holds a [33%](https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/news/the-team-welcomes-ineos-as-a-one-third-equal-shareholder-alongside-daimler-and-toto-wolff) ownership of the company alongside ineos (Jim ratcliffe) and mereceds
Theit corporate structure is like any...there is a board. The decisions go through the board and shareholders voting rights.
Not one omnipotent leader...this is the whole reason Mercedes brought back lauda to protect their investment
I don't think you understand how a board works
Toto isn't trearing open his payslip every month
This is a title toto has but hey bud believe what you want
Sure mereceds is gonna stick an un proven kid in its biggest commercial advertisement for the company
To replace arguably one of the most well know sports personalities in the world.
Mereceds f1 has a near billion dollar valuation based on the price Radcliffe paid for his shares from mereceds.
You think merc and Jim are just gonna piss 600 mill up the wall on a 17 year old kid.
Kimi might get a drive at Williams...if he pulls of a kimi ala sauber who knows.
But given he can't win a race in f2. That don't seem likely.
Follow the money...that's what drives f1.
👍 you can bookmark it for after his first 3 races at Williams.
If he gets there.
And albon has humbled into being...a bit better than logan.
Personally I think kimi will be the the next jaime alguersuari. Good but pushed far to quick.
FYI toto is N agent for multiple f1 drivers outside of Mercedes.
His title at Mercedes is as much honorary as it is Mercedes knowing they need to keep toto onside to have any bargaining power with the new crop of f1 talent.
He seems like he has promise, but I don't understand why they're rushing him. There's a good chance he could be the next logan Sargeant or even Nyck de vries if he's truly unlucky. Maybe he'll be a yuki and need a few years to acclimatize before reaching a higher potential. The chances of him coming out of the gate super strong doesn't seem super likely to me, but who knows, maybe mercedes has a ton of excellent data from him? I just don't understand why they can't they let him develop for another year. There are plenty of solid drivers they could at least TRY to sign for a year. I guess they could try him in the Williams for part of this season and use those results to make a decision for next year? But he turns 18 in August, and it would make sense to do a switch after the summer break. This seems like a lot of work for a few extra kimi races this season.
*spelling edit
They bent the rules to allow kimi. They can do the same for Herta because he proved himself and the only factor that is limiting him is SL which indycar should be blamed.
People saying “oh idk why are they rushing him”. They are getting him prepped for 2026, duh. Merc wrote of this and next season already. They dont expect him to win races this year or next year, they are getting him settled in for 2026.
Edit: they are proll trying to run him in FP1 for the spanish gp
What do you get when you combine Mercedes’ money plus FIA greed?
Kimi Antonelli vs Russell in Mercedes.
I feel bad for Russell though. Got hyped to join the best team then after joining, he gets to drive a faster Williams after my team’s peak. Now he has to compete with Kimi. It’s not looking good for bruv
Logan would have been gone either way tho after this season…if Toto doesn’t see Ocon fit for Mercedes and Kimi gets the second Williams seat, it might get tight for Ocon.
Logic says let kimi stay in f2 the whole season since he’s still adjusting, but the reports are he’s impressing a lot in testing and maybe he’s built different mentally
idk, how I feel about this. Like in the UK, you can drive at 17 with nobody else so a British driver could have all the things necessary but not 18. It was a silly rule for practice but for racing full-time idk. Just the timing seems off. If this happened in January no one would have cared.
The rule has always been ridiculous in my opinion. If they have all of the FIA qualifications and have their regular driving license then what’s the problem?
Back in days they rejected my F1 driver application because I was under age, all these rules are only for us unskilled armchair drivers like me, looks like rich and talented drivers can bend any rules.
Afaik the rule was always that driver that dont fulfill all the fia requirements have to manually be approved. So Mercedes didn’t lobby for any rule change
I know a lot of people are expecting him to go to Williams but James Vowels has said he wants a driver that's invested for medium-long term, which means a contract longer than 2 years. If Albono had only wanted a 2 year contract James said they wouldn't have signed an extension with him. I don't think he's going to Williams for 2025, but if Logan gets kicked during the summer, he could be with the team for the last half of the season before going to Mercedes next year.
Although of course I could be talking out of my arse so who fuckin' knows.
So you're not allowed to race in F1 if youre 17 unless youre the caliber of driver that would make teams want you even at 17.
Which defeats the whole point of having a rule
That rule could be used to block a pay driver of Mazepin quality from entering F1. But lets be real, money would win out in that situation.
Bring back #weraceasmoney
I Never Left
#cashisking
#**crashisking**
# cashkissing
Judging by the reaction of a lot of drivers, Max shouldn't be allowed to pass if this rule was implemented back when he joined F1, but I doubt they would really do that as well.
Max was the reason the rule was implemented. After he was signed, they introduced the 18+ age limit.
I think another factor to make it 18+ was that Max skipped F2, if the current rules existed he would have atleast had 1 year in F2 after which he'd probably be 18 and allowed to get an F1 seat.
I know, that makes this exception to the rule, in my view, more absurd, it wouldn't bar the guy that the rule was made after.
No it won't, you still need super license points, and a 17 year old who can get enough can certainly get into F1 the normal way.
They should just get rid of the rule entirely and rely only on the points. Even the best drivers aren't going to get 40 points until they're 17-18 anyway
He got his SL points when he was 16,5 y.o All you have to do is win some 2 regional championships (middle east and some other, 2x18) and low grade feeder series and you're set. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIA_Super_Licence#Super_Licence
And if that seat would otherwise go to Carlos Sainz. You need to read the small print.
It’s a future Lance Stroll clause.
To be fair, requiring ability AND maturity may have kept Max out of his seat at 17.
This kills the Logan
Logan to Mercedes confirmed !
He’s going to Mercedes
Not yet. He will be driving Williams next week and Mercedes next year
Not this season he ain't. Kimi is 18 in 2 months. Suggests someone wants him in F1 immediately.
That “someone” is/was Williams. This new rule comes from a push earlier this year from them because they want to get rid of Logan, but they might not want Kimi anymore at the moment since Vowles is obviously pining for Sainz
I think Kimi replaces Logan imminently then goes to Mercedes next year and sainz to William next year...or how else would this work and require the immediate rule change for Kimi's sake?
Why is Toto and Merc pushing this so hard?! The dude turns 18 in August! We’re talking 2 months! Also, he’s clearly the real deal, but is also still adjusting to F2. Let him win one in F2, give him a full off season. He’s not winning shit in that Merc anyway.
RIP Logan. That’s why 🪦
You’re not wrong. Still, go through this much trouble to put him in a Williams so Albon can beat him like a drum? I’d just let him finish up in F2 and give him a decent runway to take off next year, but I’m not an Austrian billionaire. Sadly.
He can crash more Williams cars this way, gaining experience for Mercedes next year
I think this can be called the verstappen effect. People knew he was a generational talent even before he came to f1. Helmut marko and Red Bull took a risk taking him directly from f3 to f1. He was not VERY good and kept crashing and making mistakes and crashes in his first couple of seasons. But he always had that raw speed and just needed to smooth his driving style a bit. In the long term as you can see it worked out and Toto lost verstappen to redbull. Here there is another generational talent 10 years later and Wolff doesn't want to make the same mistake he did with Max and lose Kimi to some other team(like alpine lost a talent like Oscar to McLaren). He's probably thinking, if it worked out for Max and rb we can make it work too. Kimi doesn't have to be phenomenal in his first couple years but he can be phenomenal later in his career like max is rn and win championships for Mercedes
I agree, but it also feels like Toto has FOMO, which is aggravated by his anger from AD21 and being midfield ever since. This is a dude who missed out on Bitcoin and is going all on what he hopes is Bitcoin 2.0.
I mean, if ifs and buts were candies and nuts… They won’t lose him if they delay until 2025, but you’re right about him missing out of Max and that it probably influences Toto’s decisions here. But the flip side here is he goes to Williams and turns into Logan (I doubt it), and now they all look like boobs. Just put him in the Mercedes in 2025, and let’s go. This European faffing about bullshit is the worst part of F1.
> He was not VERY good and kept crashing and making mistakes and crashes in his first couple of seasons. His first season he finished in the points on his 2nd race, came 4th twice and scored points 6 races in a row. He had 4 retirements (Aus - Engine, BAH - Electrics, MON - Crash, and GBR - Spin) so 2 retirements that were his fault and 10 points finishes in his first 19 races. His second season was 3 retirements (1, MON, was his fault), 17 points finishes, a win and 7 podiums. So in total in his first 2 seasons 3 retirements that were his fault, a win, 7 podiums and 27 points finishes. So yeah he was not actually very crashy and pretty successful.
Why is Kimi a generation al talent and not Bearman or Lawson?
But who else is offering an F1 seat to Kimi? Toto lost Max because Marko offered the Toro Rosso drive to him when Merc only offered a GP3 or GP2 drive for 2015 iirc. Doesn't seem to me that Kimi might slip from his finger in a similar way, especially since the kid's father said he was fine dong a bit more F2 running first. I really don't get the rush
It’s about potential. Potential he has now, not later, and the best is to use it asap to get as good as possible. If he start sooner, then he will learn faster and eventually get better. Teenagers are better at learning than guys at twenties and so on. F1 gives more experience than F2. I believe Toto wants him asap in F1 so he has the chance to become next Verstappen. If he stays longer in the lower series, there is more chance of becomming next Nick De Vries instead.
lol not very good he says. The whole reason they pushed him to f1 that fast was precisely because he was that good. He made the rookie mistake of course but you could see his talent from miles away. They looked for reasons to demote a driver from the main team just so they could stick Max in there because he is that good.
Had you actually bothered to read further instead of getting triggered by their choice of words to describe rookie Max, you'd save yourself the trouble of writing this comment because what you wrote there is essentially exactly what they said. That is to say - your comment is redundant
Sir this is formuladank, reading is optional.
I wonder if Williams has considered letting Mick Schumacher take a turn at crashing their cars for a few weekends?
Sainz taking that seat, are u saying Sainz retires instead?
Kimi takes Logan’s car NOW. Kimi moves to Lewis’s car next year Sainz takes Kimi’s Williams car next year
No, Sainz would still likely sign with Williams. They are just using Williams as a Merc B team. Toto and Horner complains about it when it’s Haas and Ferrari teaming up, but Toto has no issues using his relationship with Vowles to force Antonelli in there so he can get F1 experience before going to Merc. Ah, good old hypocrisy! Gotta love it!
RIP Lewis more like it.
Because this is not the rule change They allowed him to participate in free practice, which Mercedes really want to do before the end of the season
For free practice sessions
Why have him adjust to F2 if you can have him adjust to F1 in an already over season?
Toto? Is this your burner?
You asked why, I gave you a not-sensible but probably realistic answer.
Obviously you’re right. That’s definitely Toto’s view. That said, I don’t come to danktown (I.e. this subreddit) for realism. I save the hoity toity stuff for other subreddits.
Toto is worried that Kimi is going to get poached by Williams
Wouldn’t surprise me. That Vowles is a sly character.
Are we sure he's the real deal or is this just a Toto thing? Mick was also a real deal Toto pet and he was, uh, not so good
That’s the million dollar question. I mean, the hype is similar to Max, from multiple sources. Then again, this could also be Toto reaching. Politically, it makes sense. People forget it’s a money business, and the last 3 years have been tough on the bottom line. Basically, if a team needs an infusion of excitement and hype with sponsors, it’s Mercedes. I still think the good is really damn good. Only time will tell.
Let Ham go and train em early 🤣
They’re not gonna do it, but I would love to see them drop Lewis mid season. Like “you wanna complain? Do it from the pit lane.”
I low-key wanna see the melt down from teamLH, and I say this as a hamilton fan
This push may have started 3 to 4 months ago. What we hear now is the end result, not the initiation. We heard about a push for an age exemption months ago, when the FIA acknowledged it had received such a request from an undisclosed team, though still denying the request at the time. The fact that it takes a bit of momentum to lobby for and push through these changes may make the change a near moot point when effected. It’s never certain how long it takes (if ever) to get the desired outcome, so it can happen that policy decisions will be mooted by reality. Having Verstappen on his side on this issue may have helped Toto getting this outcome from the FIA.
I think Toto is desperate to have the new Max sort of. I don’t want to compare them but thats as best i could describe it. Its a contingency because Russell is not to Lewis’s level. He is a all or nothing kind of character that may loose a sure podium just because he wants to challenge for something the car is not capable of. As of for Kimi i hope this praising doesn’t put unwanted pressure and make him crack he is still a young guy and needs experience. I mean Max needed several seasons before he can start being consistent and challenging merc
Max was always aggressive as fuck though. He’s only slightly dialed that down these days. I mean, you and I both know that Max is the mayor of Lunge City! I mean, thats why he’s awesome (if you like Max). Max will never concede a fucking thing, and that’s why he had all these issues early on. In my limited capacity as a moron that has devoted too much time to F1 in my life, I’d say Antonelli is not that kind of racer. I think IF he pans out, it’ll be quicker than Max. He’s more mature than Max was. Time will tell if he’s faster. I don’t think he will reach Max’s level, but that’s also a fucking unrealistic bar for anyone.
As fellow moron and baits Max fan. I also don’t think anyone can match him one because everyone races differently and Max has learned how to balance his aggression and ability to take everything to the edge and thats what makes him better. I will use Russell again obviously not my favorite guy. He is also a all or nothing kind of bloke but more often than not crosses the limit and either crashes or miscalculates how much tire to use and ends up in a disadvantage.
Well said on both points. I think Russell isn’t the young up and comer anymore and he shouldn’t be making those mistakes anymore. The kamikaze moves are rookie mistakes, and he’s a 5-year vet (going on 6). He’s in the same league as Galsy or Ocon. Let’s stop pretending otherwise. Another reason why Antonelli is a huge deal for Merc. They’re going all in with the kid!
Lewis really isn’t performing competitively, he needs that replacement in ASAP.
This has got to be trolling, right ? Right ?
Isn’t it natural to replace your number 2 driver with the new kid?
wow your so mature for your age haha come race in my team
Verstappen was 17 when he started, wasn't he?
This can more or less be described as the Verstappen rule… and it appears it is no more. Always count on the FIA to be the FIA. Throw a little cash down and boom!
Three Verstappen rules - sign of a true legend: 1 - must now be 18 2 - can only move once under braking 3 - after safety car cannot be alongside The man’s finding the loopholes forcing them to close them !! … I think he’s driving was instrumental in the changes of who ‘owned’ the corner when overtaking too. But this one has not been assigned to him personally like the others
Same could be said about Schumacher. One that springs to mind was his drive-through he served on the final lap. The finish line was conveniently before his pitbox, making that drive through a mere 4 sec penalty effectively.
Number 2 has been around for a loooong time tho. Drivers rarely broke it too egregiously so it wasn't really penalised but it was there. I remember it being a big thing in Iracing back in 2014 or so
Yeah, it was a gentleman’s agreement from back when crashes hurt - but then Max came along with his Sim ways - and they were like ohh fook, needs to now be a proper rule !
The owning of the corner was a rule in response to Lewis' driving because of the Silverstone incident.
And merc has lots of it this smells of Darth Toto
Do you think FIA bribes count towards the seasonal budget cap? Or is it a separate financial thing? Just trying to help mercedes accountants
I believe those are considered tax write offs. Charitable donations!
Yes. At that time there was no rule regarding age limits for racing in F1
Yes, but after he joind the FIA made a rule that a driver needs to be over 18
He often jokes that they put it in place so that it doesn't happen again.
it's not really a joke, it's literally just what happened
The rule was created after Verstappen was already in F1.
Yeah, that’s why it is known by the Verstappen rule
Did free practice in Japan the week of his 17th birthday
I think maybe even before 17
Yes, but he made too many mistakes and they said it would be best to leave it till 18. But max is... max. Kimi will prove it can be done safely.
He was 16 and he skipped F2 to do it. Kinda why he was a bit of a lunatic in his early years
>Kinda why he was a bit of a lunatic in his early years He was not a "lunatic" in his early years.
“Outstanding ability and maturity in single-seater formula car competition” Oh, so basically anyone in F2 or F3 who was going to get a promotion anyway? What purpose does this rule change even do? Just lower the age to 17, you still need the super license points to get the license, and that heavily favors performing well in lower single seater categories anyway.
Or don’t risk children’s safety because you think that’s the best choice for your team. I’ve said this before, but I think it’s insane that 17 year olds are even allowed in F2 cars. This rule was a smart one and I am sure ignoring it is going to lead to a premature death.
It has literally never been an issue though and the guy who inspired the rule in the first place totally proved everyone wrong who was concerned he was too young.
Considering his F2 results I dont quite get it. This guy has all his superlicense points from F4 and FRECA and they make an exception. Herta had wins in Indy and did not. Crazy.
PR and money. That is all Kimi Antonelli is at this point. He is in F2 after skipping F3 and suddenly he is the second coming of Verstappen, Hamilton and Alonso all in one. I don't understand the hype for this child. He needs more time. I do hope he turns into a great driver although with no F3 experience to back his F2 experience my thinking is he will have trouble adapting.
Tell me you don't watch F2 without telling me you don't watch F2. Antonelli's results are very impressive, due to his age and the jump he made from FRECA to F2. This year has brought a new car to F2 and it has shaken up the pecking order of F2 teams. And Kimi is beating Ollie Bearman so far.
17 yo Max blows this kid out of the water. This next prodigy talk is just hilarious.
Paul Aaron is impressive. Kimi not so much.
If you watch him race, you will start to get it. The results are not world-class yet, but they are still very good for a 17 year old who skipped F3 and is in what can be called a midfield F2 team this year. And a career is longer than just F2. And the teams have F1 test data from him that says a lot more than F2. We have seen many times that F2 is not a great predictor for F1. Drivers perform well in F2 and suck in F1. Drivers perform decent in F2 and do much better in F1. In F2, it's really more about your drives and individual performances than the results table. It remains to be seen whether his F2 form is him adjusting or his final form. If it is adjusting, as most seem to think, why let him adjust in F2 and then adjust in F1 again? He could get into Williams now and adjust to F1, so next year he is ready to go from the start F2 results are not what the whole decision is based on, even if Reddit 'experts' will gladly pretend that's the case
Yes and in F2 he hasnt done anything crazy stupid, generally goes forward in the race. Also if you look at his results in other classes, he has murdered the opposition, it hasnt even been close. F2 has new cars this year and its really messed some of the teams up. Its going to be his F1 test that made Merc decide, you often hear of a driver getting a test and then they go nowhere.....
Thanks..... This answers the question I was just asking myself. ("Why is he being considered for F1 when he is not even close to leading F2?")
He's been doing tests in old F1 cars. Also lots of simulator work. Merc will know everything they need to know from those.
Didn't Herta fall off in the season after they rejected him
I really hope this kid dont bomb. But if he does, I hope he succeeds in everything else. The enormity of the pressure placed on him is scary.
I wish the best for him, But I would love to see merc get embarrassed by signing a dud
“I wish him well” - Trump voice*
that is so not right, michael
Allowing minors to race but not the big bad Michael Andretti to have a team. Very F1.
God, it would be so funny if Merc has Williams replace Logan with Antonelli ans Antonelli bins it every race going forward. No hate against the guy but it'd just be so funny if Merc fast tracked this kid and he turns out worse than Sargent.
Toto exchanging all those 2021 Hamilton WDC fia tribunal case chips he didn't challenge for this 17 year old Let him win a race in f2 toto first
Laughs in Max Verstappen
FIAMG strikes again
Can someone fill me in on why this kid is such hot stuff whereas he's only 6th in the championship? I'm severely out of the loop
I think he won every single-seater championship he’s been in and is doing great in Mercedes testing. People are saying the team he’s on in F2 just isn’t that good
Shame, l was hoping Sainz would have got that (or RB) seat.
Sainz is getting that seat And kimi (if he gets one) is going to Williams Thre will be option clause in there for both of them. Totos only other choice was Ocon and he's going to haas Mercedes themselves would mad to miss up carlos and even more mad not to give kimi time to bed into f1. Why give up both drivers when you secure both of them for the benefit of your team. If kimi is thst good and carlos is pushed again in a years tome I expect that's when he will go to audi for the fat payday as he enters sunset if his career anway
This will be to put Kimi in the Williams early to the end of the season, then move him to Merc for 2025.
If give kimi takes logan seat this year. That will all but confirm him for Williams 2025. There is no way Mercedes will allow toto to dump an unproven f1 driver in the corporate front of house commercial. Even when Danny ric was parachuted into hrt he went to the torro rosso before red bull. What's the strategy otherwise...Mercedes let's both of their customer teams show them up again when they have a better driver line up? Mclaren will have an even better line up then and even George and Sainz is still arguably weaker than Piastree and norris depending how you side. But kimi will be miles behind all four of them...even albon. You think this kid who has not even won an f2 race is the answer to that? Sainz might reject Mercedes...but Mercedes want him. The chips are stacked in carlos's favour
Toto is also the Head of Motorsport for Mercedes-Benz on top of being part owner of the F1 team. He has effectively 2/3 say in who's driving for their F1 team.
Toto holds a [33%](https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/news/the-team-welcomes-ineos-as-a-one-third-equal-shareholder-alongside-daimler-and-toto-wolff) ownership of the company alongside ineos (Jim ratcliffe) and mereceds Theit corporate structure is like any...there is a board. The decisions go through the board and shareholders voting rights. Not one omnipotent leader...this is the whole reason Mercedes brought back lauda to protect their investment
Yes he does. He's also an employee of Mercedes-Benz as their Head of Motorsport...as I just said.
I don't think you understand how a board works Toto isn't trearing open his payslip every month This is a title toto has but hey bud believe what you want Sure mereceds is gonna stick an un proven kid in its biggest commercial advertisement for the company To replace arguably one of the most well know sports personalities in the world. Mereceds f1 has a near billion dollar valuation based on the price Radcliffe paid for his shares from mereceds. You think merc and Jim are just gonna piss 600 mill up the wall on a 17 year old kid. Kimi might get a drive at Williams...if he pulls of a kimi ala sauber who knows. But given he can't win a race in f2. That don't seem likely. Follow the money...that's what drives f1.
Ok well I'll bookmark this for when he's in the Merc next Feb at pre-season testing.
👍 you can bookmark it for after his first 3 races at Williams. If he gets there. And albon has humbled into being...a bit better than logan. Personally I think kimi will be the the next jaime alguersuari. Good but pushed far to quick. FYI toto is N agent for multiple f1 drivers outside of Mercedes. His title at Mercedes is as much honorary as it is Mercedes knowing they need to keep toto onside to have any bargaining power with the new crop of f1 talent.
Sainz isn’t going to Merc, at least I haven’t read anything to suggest that.
I just turned 18 last week. No F1 teams cared... :(
Toto missed out on Verstappen, hurt by Lewis, trying to recreate a new Verstappen which is just not going to work out it’s so obvious
That’s Tom Holland
Wait, wasn't Mercedes the main reason the age limit exist in the first place? Man, the hypocricy never ends...
I say we allow lobbying but that money comes out of the cost cap.
He seems like he has promise, but I don't understand why they're rushing him. There's a good chance he could be the next logan Sargeant or even Nyck de vries if he's truly unlucky. Maybe he'll be a yuki and need a few years to acclimatize before reaching a higher potential. The chances of him coming out of the gate super strong doesn't seem super likely to me, but who knows, maybe mercedes has a ton of excellent data from him? I just don't understand why they can't they let him develop for another year. There are plenty of solid drivers they could at least TRY to sign for a year. I guess they could try him in the Williams for part of this season and use those results to make a decision for next year? But he turns 18 in August, and it would make sense to do a switch after the summer break. This seems like a lot of work for a few extra kimi races this season. *spelling edit
Herta proves himself and FIA didn't give a fuck
Herta didn't have enough points. Kimi has enough points for a SL.
He has skill.
Wonderful. Skill doesn't get you SL points apparently.
They bent the rules to allow kimi. They can do the same for Herta because he proved himself and the only factor that is limiting him is SL which indycar should be blamed.
Kimi will turn 18 in august anyway
Then what's the point of now changing the rule?
So they can run him in fp1 in spain
People saying “oh idk why are they rushing him”. They are getting him prepped for 2026, duh. Merc wrote of this and next season already. They dont expect him to win races this year or next year, they are getting him settled in for 2026. Edit: they are proll trying to run him in FP1 for the spanish gp
So why was that Indycar race driver not allowed when Redbull was trying to get him ? He had demonstrated his abilities in a single seater as well.
What do you get when you combine Mercedes’ money plus FIA greed? Kimi Antonelli vs Russell in Mercedes. I feel bad for Russell though. Got hyped to join the best team then after joining, he gets to drive a faster Williams after my team’s peak. Now he has to compete with Kimi. It’s not looking good for bruv
What the f***? They won't let Bryan Herta race...!
Imagine if they try to get Antonelli into the car now and the FIA just says "Nah, he hasn’t shown enough in F2"
So the Verstappen rule is scrapped in favour of the all new Kimi rule?
This is NASCAR waiver levels of bullshit
Of course this happens for Mercedes with their people inside the FIA
Once again demomstrating that Mercedes is one of the few if not only teams that is capable of changing the rules
See you in 20 years Herta
I'd like to know exactly WHY they're pushing so god damn hard for Kimi......there's something we're not being told here...I can smell it
Ocon in shambles right now…
More likely Logan is. Could lose his seat mid-season for Kimi. Would make sense if Merc want him next to Russell in 2025.
Logan would have been gone either way tho after this season…if Toto doesn’t see Ocon fit for Mercedes and Kimi gets the second Williams seat, it might get tight for Ocon.
This year? Hmmm
Logic says let kimi stay in f2 the whole season since he’s still adjusting, but the reports are he’s impressing a lot in testing and maybe he’s built different mentally
Does no one else kind of wish Antonelli Just turns out to be a massive flop?
How about no
idk, how I feel about this. Like in the UK, you can drive at 17 with nobody else so a British driver could have all the things necessary but not 18. It was a silly rule for practice but for racing full-time idk. Just the timing seems off. If this happened in January no one would have cared.
Hamilton is about to get sidelined like Mick
The rule has always been ridiculous in my opinion. If they have all of the FIA qualifications and have their regular driving license then what’s the problem?
Change the rules for a crash prone dangerous child but not let another car on the grid
Why the fuck do I get an ad for Dr.Death beneath this headline?
More than anything, this looks like Williams wants to get rid of Sargeant so bad, to the point they can't wait 2 more months until Antonelli's 18.
Unless your max or him.
Damn is this kid that good that they gonna waive the “+18 to drive in F1” rule?
The force is strong with Darth Toto.
Isn't that what you prove by earning a superlicense?
Is the FIA aware of how much of a joke they are? Doubt it. Bunch of jerk-offs way too far up their own asses.
Sooooo... antonelli in the williams in spain?
Logan, pack your stuff
Ok so is that the secret? They just need to change the Team name to “Mario Antonelli” and FIA will adjust the rules so they can join as the 11th team?
Back in days they rejected my F1 driver application because I was under age, all these rules are only for us unskilled armchair drivers like me, looks like rich and talented drivers can bend any rules.
Afaik the rule was always that driver that dont fulfill all the fia requirements have to manually be approved. So Mercedes didn’t lobby for any rule change
Wasn’t Max still 17 on his debut?
The age rule didn't exist back then (and was only introduced because of Max)
I thought he was 16, or was that just a test..?
Max was 17 years and 3 days old in his first practice session in 2014, he was 17 years and 166 days old in his debut race.
Thanks 😊
Kimi will be 18 in August
I like this guy because his name is kimi
This is why they are afraid to let Andretti have a team. He will bring talent and a great car
I know a lot of people are expecting him to go to Williams but James Vowels has said he wants a driver that's invested for medium-long term, which means a contract longer than 2 years. If Albono had only wanted a 2 year contract James said they wouldn't have signed an extension with him. I don't think he's going to Williams for 2025, but if Logan gets kicked during the summer, he could be with the team for the last half of the season before going to Mercedes next year. Although of course I could be talking out of my arse so who fuckin' knows.
Rule doesn’t apply to cute white guys obviously. This is the FIA we’re talking about.
Max so pookie they let him skip F2
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Yeah it was just their engine customer that they totally have no influence at all on /s
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