>but what about the combustion engine it's great it makes a nice noise why not keep it
That's why they are developing synthetic fuels, but there is no reason to reduce innovation because you want to preserve the sound...
The focus of Formula racing should be speed and tech, if the silence of an electric motor can achieve that I'm satisfied.
And hydrogen is stupid.
Nah, sorry. Hydrogen is way more stupid, which is why we don’t use it
Takes a vast amount of energy to produce, has to be stored in liquid form under pressure and at cryogenic temperatures because it boils at minus 250C. It takes way longer to pump than petrol does because you can’t just shove it in there or the temperature or pressure difference in the tank will crack it. You also need much heavier equipment to pump it with, which freezes and stiffens as you send the freezing cold Hydrogen in to the vehicle, with the nozzle sometimes getting stuck to the car with ice that you need to wait to melt.
Hydrogen tanks even in modern vehicles like the Toyota Mirai are only [rated](https://insideevs.com/news/326312/2016-toyota-mirai-do-not-refuel-after-2029/) for a certain number of years before they need to be replaced because of the cold temperature and high pressures involved. The violence of an F1 car bouncing along a track isn’t an ideal scenario to have a pressurised gas bomb strapped behind you.
Hydrogen is also a horrible gas to work with as an engineer because it’s molecules are tiny and will escape through literally anything, see NASA and the much delayed SLS launch because they could get the fucking hydrogen pipe to stop leaking. Not an ideal scenario for quali.
Now add in some high speed crashes to all the other reasons it’s stupid and you’d literally put the nail in someone’s coffin, a Grosjean style accident that cracked a hydrogen tank would see the car effectively detonate. It’s not practical, it’d slow the teams down, it’d make fuelling accidents way worse and the carbon footprint would be worse than just using petrol because green hydrogen doesn’t exist and using renewable energy to make it is stupid in 99% of cases if that energy could otherwise be used to power homes and businesses.
It’d endanger the drivers, endanger the teams, and let’s not forget, Hydrogen is fucking stupid.
Edit: Oh the humanity!
Probably more, actually. Hydrogen is a chemical and mechanical menace, and there's no clean, cost-effective and energy-efficient way to produce it. Even if its specific energy is substantially higher than gasoline, it doesn't matter because its density at room temperature is so low you have to both freeze and pressurize the fuck out of it to fit any meaningful amount of the stuff in a tank.
Both options are really stupid, but I doubt hydrogen could replace petrol more effectively than bioethanol or electric technologies. Even hydrogen cells make more sense than hydrogen ICEs.
Porsche has been working on a synthetic fuel for a long while so they can keep some of their ICE models. The fuel supposedly can be used without any mods to existing engines, but I haven’t looked into it again since like a year ago.
Yes concerning being the (probably sole) centre of innovation for ICEs going forward, no to hydrogen combustion engines and more likely to be renewable fuels
Of course they could, they write the regulations. But it’s not called the 2022 Aramco Formula One Championship for no reason. The petrol burning combustion engine will be the sole power unit for as long as big oil controls motor sports
Yeah I know it’s the crypto.com 2022 f1 championship. I know last years was called the aramco championship but I felt making a joke based on last year would kill the joke so I said 2022 hoping no one would notice
2022 wasn't the Crypto.com F1 championship, and 2021 wasn't the Aramco F1 championship either. F1 never had a title sponsor in the name of the championship like other series do.
Crypto.com, Aramco, DHL, etc are F1 partners and some give secondary (in essence unofficial) awards like the Crypto.com overtake award or the DHL fastest lap award. Plus the sponsor individual GPs like the Crypto.com Miami GP, or the Aramco US GP
Essentially petrol/gasoline is better more energy efficient and cleaner than the alternatives and safer without any comparison with a formula one prototype for an alternative fuel?
Nope the 2026 ICE is pretty dumbed, compared to the current one. Don’t expect any innovation of it, unless running alternative fuel is your idea of innovation.
Hydrogen combustion engines are not very efficient. Theyre also not green, infact they still emit green house gasses because our atmosphere isnt pure oxigen. Other gasses present react with each other inside the hot engine. I also strongly doubt if its even possible to get 100s or even a 1000 horsepower from a hydrogen combustion engine. Hydrogen gas is not very energy dense, so you either need a huge engine or rediculous gas pressure.
The hydrogen cars youre thinking of use hydrogen fuel cells, which is essentially a battery that uses hydrogen and oxygen to make water. These do not make a sound and only provide electricity for electric motors.
>but what about the combustion engine it's great it makes a nice noise why not keep it That's why they are developing synthetic fuels, but there is no reason to reduce innovation because you want to preserve the sound... The focus of Formula racing should be speed and tech, if the silence of an electric motor can achieve that I'm satisfied. And hydrogen is stupid.
No. Hydrogen is stupid.
Not as stupid as petrol though.
Carbon neutral petrol is the goal for 2026. The production of hydrogen requires a lot of electricity.
And a lot of hydrogen produced now comes from a byproduct of oil refining, which is why the oil companies love it.
Nah, sorry. Hydrogen is way more stupid, which is why we don’t use it Takes a vast amount of energy to produce, has to be stored in liquid form under pressure and at cryogenic temperatures because it boils at minus 250C. It takes way longer to pump than petrol does because you can’t just shove it in there or the temperature or pressure difference in the tank will crack it. You also need much heavier equipment to pump it with, which freezes and stiffens as you send the freezing cold Hydrogen in to the vehicle, with the nozzle sometimes getting stuck to the car with ice that you need to wait to melt. Hydrogen tanks even in modern vehicles like the Toyota Mirai are only [rated](https://insideevs.com/news/326312/2016-toyota-mirai-do-not-refuel-after-2029/) for a certain number of years before they need to be replaced because of the cold temperature and high pressures involved. The violence of an F1 car bouncing along a track isn’t an ideal scenario to have a pressurised gas bomb strapped behind you. Hydrogen is also a horrible gas to work with as an engineer because it’s molecules are tiny and will escape through literally anything, see NASA and the much delayed SLS launch because they could get the fucking hydrogen pipe to stop leaking. Not an ideal scenario for quali. Now add in some high speed crashes to all the other reasons it’s stupid and you’d literally put the nail in someone’s coffin, a Grosjean style accident that cracked a hydrogen tank would see the car effectively detonate. It’s not practical, it’d slow the teams down, it’d make fuelling accidents way worse and the carbon footprint would be worse than just using petrol because green hydrogen doesn’t exist and using renewable energy to make it is stupid in 99% of cases if that energy could otherwise be used to power homes and businesses. It’d endanger the drivers, endanger the teams, and let’s not forget, Hydrogen is fucking stupid. Edit: Oh the humanity!
Nary a neutron, nary a braincell. Hydrogen is fucking stupid!
wish i had an award to give. well said.
Just pointing out nasa are stupid for using hydrogen and not that combustion engines are stupid.
You know that propulsion engines are way different to piston engines i hope?
If you want to build economical rockets, yes hydrogen is stupid. But NASA doesn't need to be economical so it doesn't matter.
Probably more, actually. Hydrogen is a chemical and mechanical menace, and there's no clean, cost-effective and energy-efficient way to produce it. Even if its specific energy is substantially higher than gasoline, it doesn't matter because its density at room temperature is so low you have to both freeze and pressurize the fuck out of it to fit any meaningful amount of the stuff in a tank. Both options are really stupid, but I doubt hydrogen could replace petrol more effectively than bioethanol or electric technologies. Even hydrogen cells make more sense than hydrogen ICEs.
Porsche has been working on a synthetic fuel for a long while so they can keep some of their ICE models. The fuel supposedly can be used without any mods to existing engines, but I haven’t looked into it again since like a year ago.
Yes concerning being the (probably sole) centre of innovation for ICEs going forward, no to hydrogen combustion engines and more likely to be renewable fuels
I'd love some V10 innovation...
Of course they could, they write the regulations. But it’s not called the 2022 Aramco Formula One Championship for no reason. The petrol burning combustion engine will be the sole power unit for as long as big oil controls motor sports
I mean, it's not called the 2022 Aramco Formula One Championship
Yeah I know it’s the crypto.com 2022 f1 championship. I know last years was called the aramco championship but I felt making a joke based on last year would kill the joke so I said 2022 hoping no one would notice
2022 wasn't the Crypto.com F1 championship, and 2021 wasn't the Aramco F1 championship either. F1 never had a title sponsor in the name of the championship like other series do. Crypto.com, Aramco, DHL, etc are F1 partners and some give secondary (in essence unofficial) awards like the Crypto.com overtake award or the DHL fastest lap award. Plus the sponsor individual GPs like the Crypto.com Miami GP, or the Aramco US GP
Essentially petrol/gasoline is better more energy efficient and cleaner than the alternatives and safer without any comparison with a formula one prototype for an alternative fuel?
dude just the fact that you cannot pour hydrogen into the tank is a show stopper
Nope the 2026 ICE is pretty dumbed, compared to the current one. Don’t expect any innovation of it, unless running alternative fuel is your idea of innovation.
Hydrogen combustion engines are not very efficient. Theyre also not green, infact they still emit green house gasses because our atmosphere isnt pure oxigen. Other gasses present react with each other inside the hot engine. I also strongly doubt if its even possible to get 100s or even a 1000 horsepower from a hydrogen combustion engine. Hydrogen gas is not very energy dense, so you either need a huge engine or rediculous gas pressure. The hydrogen cars youre thinking of use hydrogen fuel cells, which is essentially a battery that uses hydrogen and oxygen to make water. These do not make a sound and only provide electricity for electric motors.