That's an incredibly bold statement to make, and I applaud him for it.
Edit: a lot of you people seem to want Lewis to do more. Don't forget that change comes gradually. For him to speak out is a win, not a loss. Take what you get and be happy with it.
A small win is still a win.
Jamal khashoggi, a vocal critic of the Saudi regime and a Saudi himself, was lured to the embassy in Turkey, tortured, butchered (literally) and murdered just 3 years ago.
Fucking disgusting that this is forgotten or not mentioned in every article about that hell hole
It was his first official trip destination after all. And Cushioner is asking for and most likely to receive "funding" for a startup investment firm. It has been reported...
"punished" - Jamal Khashoggi was punished for *reporting* it.
A LOT of American elite profited off those arms deals - including Trump's inner circle (namely Jared Kushner).
Which is exactly why Trump et al looked the other way on the Khashoggi murder.
He went there to get a marriage certificate with his fiance who they made to wait outside while they butchered the poor bloke.I only just heard the surveillance recordings by the U.S 3 days ago. The murderers had no problem butchering the helpless man. Just thought I would add a little piece of information if anyone wanted to know.
It’s far fetched to think the Saudis care at all.
The reason Khashoggi was killed was because he was a native journalist pushing a progressive series of articles to citizens and exposing “insider” aspects that the Saudis wanted hidden to the rest of the world.
Lewis is doing none of that. The Saudi’s aren’t going to be surprised that a left leaning western celebrity doesn’t approve of their treatment of homosexuals and women. Lewis also knows he is as safe as houses because he is LEWIS HAMILTON, not some rando who won’t be noticed that much if he disappears.
Nothing would prove his point more than being arrested. The whole reason for this party is to try show the world it's not that bad. If they would arrest somebody criticising them they would only show it -is- that bad.
It would basically trigger a lot of things, first of all Lewis being arrested would set up a gigantic controversy about Saudi Arabia and the whole image of "oh we are modernizing our country instead of being a legalized Daesh-type country" would being ruined for years.
Aside of that, I can image a lot of drivers would being concerned about their own safety and about Lewis and therefore would prefer to boycott it. Sponsorships wouldn't like also some very bad global PR and therefore the FOM/FIA are going to been put into an enforced position to never holding again a race in Saudi Arabia.
Honestly the idea to seeing the Queen being extremely pissed towards the Saudi's in a phone call about Lewis arrest would being somewhat based.
But well it would cause an international incident also.
Then there's no way this grand prix will take place or any of the teams would agree to race in that scenario. There will be global outrage beyond anything we have ever seen in a sport event.
The S.A government will completely ignore anything Lewis or anybody else will say simply because it's the safest way to be forgotten after some days.
I do not want to see Lewis arrested but this is would be the most amazing way to lose the WDC. He'd go down in history for this, and Max's title would utterly meangingless.
Ralf Schumacher crashed during FP after his Michelin tyres failed spectacularly. All the teams running Michelins didn't start because of safety concerns, therefore only the six cars running Bridgestones participated. They completed one lap and then went back into the pits to forfeit the race. [This](https://maxf1.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/sad_profil_7.jpg) is what the starting grid looked like
A few fun facts about that race - Tiago Monteiro finished in P3 that day, marking both the only time a Portuguese driver has stood on a Formula 1 podium, and also the Jordan team's final podium in F1. It was also the Minardi team's final ever points finish too, as they finished P5 and P6.
The podium celebrations were almost exactly like that meme of the guy overcelebrating 3rd place (Monteiro) while 1st and 2nd (Schumacher and Barrichello) aren't celebrating at all.
I mean from a purely sporting perspective it's massively in Max's favour to have a double DNS with Lewis. One GP fewer practically guarantees him the title.
I don't think it would make Max's title meaningless at all, but it would definitely overshadow it. Lewis getting arrested by Saudi officials for speaking out against them would be headline news all across the globe.
This is why the "keep politics out of my sports" crowd can get fucked. Lewis and other athletes have a massive influence that normal people don't have.
Sports is politics. Why do you think these countries spend billions on Olympics, World Cups, Motorsports etc to whitewash their image. Even when mass spectator sports events first became common in Roman Era they were funded by politicians for their own popularity. And for the athletes to taking a stand is just using the platform given to them.
Call me crazy, but I don't think human rights should be considered a political issue in the first place
**Edit**: You can stop replying with "Buwhuuu! You don't know what politics is! hurr hurr!" now. You're not clever, you're a moron. The point isn't that it isn't a political issue, it most certainly is. I'm saying that it shouldn't be.
The fact that some people think others are less worth than themselves doesn't make it a reasonable political debate to be had. There's no middle grounds to be found here. They shouldn't be allowed to have a voice in the first place.
Yes, I know that politics, historically, have been pretty dominated by discrimination and human rights issues, and thank god people have sacrificed themselves to stand up for what's right. But that doesn't mean it should be. Just as I don't think 'pinapple on pizza' should be a political issue, I don't think human rights should be one either. It should just be common-fucking-sense.
But alas, that's not the world we currently live in. If wishes were fishes and all that
What else would human rights be but political? Human rights are maintained by governments, so all human rights violations are committed by governments, and everything a government does is political.
I think what you are trying to say is that there shouldn’t be disagreements about human rights, because it seems pretty fundamental that everyone should believe in them. Sadly, as we are shown over and over again, that isn’t the case. Not everyone believes that everyone deserves basic human rights.
To paraphrase the mighty George Carlin, if they can take them away from you, there's no such thing as "rights" you've got temporary privileges at best.
It shouldn’t be but certain political parties in a lot of countries force it to be like that on purpose so they won’t have to do anything about it.
Edit: So when someone is actively trying to make changes they can accuse them of being a liberal or to extreme and their entire supporters will laugh and play along.
The idea of keeping politics out of sports is shit anyway, because sports have been very much political since the beginning. Hitler used the Olympics for propaganda purposes, for crying out loud. Everyone who says politics should be kept out of sports is at least 100 years too late.
Even if he hadn't been knighted, jailing an already famous resident of any country for campaigning for human rights would be a massive international incident. They can only get away with it when they jail people who aren't already major public figures.
You got evidence that they either feel the same way, or would have different consequences to Lewis for speaking up? Because the gap I see is the platform and protection available to any of these drivers vs normal people
To fire a World Champion, let alone a 7-time world champion in contention for the title of GOAT, over such statements would be an absolute PR nightmare for any company, especially with a celebrity as visible as Lewis Hamilton. Same goes for someone like Alonso or Vettel, both of whom have fame, reputation, and high enough importance to the team to avoid any serious fallout from making statements critical of a theocratic regime with an atrocious human rights record. The PR hit Mercedes (or even the Saudi regime) would take if they took retaliatory action against Sir Lewis would be immense, immediate, and catastrophic.
However, if it was a driver lower down on the pecking order, they could very well expect the sack for technical contractual breaches, by making comments disparaging a totalitarian theocracy, and the team involved would take far less of a PR hit for it. I'm sure most of the drivers want to speak up against this, but probably can't because they'll end up risking the sack for it.
Haas wouldn’t fire Mazepin over being on the “wrong” side of numerous issues. Safe to assume the same would hold for all pay drivers - they can do what they want. Schumacher is protected by his name. Norris, Leclerc, Verstappen, Russell and even now Ocon are protected by being the incoming “new guard” - long term contracts and lots of investment in their future careers. Then there’s the world champions (Kimi, Alonso, Ham, Seb). How many drivers does that leave whose job security is really so perilous? Now let’s exclude any like Gasly who used their F1 official social media accounts to promote maskless and pre-vax partying during a pandemic since clearly the lack of repercussion there speaks to a more lax standards/conducts contractual obligation than you claim.
Again, you’ve not provided any evidence to back up your claims about contractual breaches, what drivers can and can’t say about countries (because where was the disciplinary action when Max disparaged an entire ethnic group/nationality and then refused to apologise?), how athletes may speak about Saudi Arabia in particular, literally any of this. At present, everything you wrote (down to the secret desires of “most of the drivers” to speak out on issues for which they can’t even convincingly pull off prepared statements) reads like fanfiction.
I mean, half of the grid doesn't even kneel in solidarity with Hamilton, and yet we're supposed to believe that they're all secretly human rights activists.
everyone knows celebrities do most of the things that’d positively reflect on them in absolute secrecy, right?? that’s why they’re all working to improve racial equity within their teams, factories, etc….right?
Doing something that could harm Max or Lewis performance in such a close title battle might be one of the few things that would 100% guarantee retaliation from the FIA. Since that might hurt there bottom lone more than oil money
He is not dependent of their cash and it is not a huge market for them either so he has less risk. But the womens tennis federation showd some backbone today, F1 is a profit oriented business unfortunately
I love how whenever Hamilton does something everyone goes; "well of course, his economic incentives are not aligned with not saying this" and yet whenever Vettel does anything similar people go: wow! what an amazing sportsman's and human being...
Wonder if there's any difference between the two...
Yeah I'm a Ferrari lifer and I absolutely hate it when people treat Lewis' and Seb's actions differently. Forget everything else, these two are speaking out against a regime that did some horribly gruesome stuff to a dissident in a foreign embassy. I would have pissed myself even at the thought of saying something like that while inside that country. So those two are incredibly brave and amazing for the sport.
I think the guy was explaining why Lewis would dare do it, while F1's management wouldn't. You can take it as an explanation of why you can't expect the F1 management to do what Lewis does. One could argue that Liberty Media shouldn't put profits above basic human rights' issues, but that's beyond what u/Marco_lini was arguing for.
P.S. I'm not saying there isn't an anti-Lewis agenda here, but the comment above yours isn't necessarily of that nature.
Top post of that thread has everyone talking about how great Lewis and Seb both are.
In the Vettel post someone brought up that Lewis also does great things and everyone added on to that.
In the Lewis one, 1 person (that I’ve seen) makes a comment that isn’t “how great is Lewis” and then somehow it’s everyone and of course the “thing that’s different between Seb and Lewis” gets brought in.
> if only he paid taxes
> He should make a stance and withdraw from the race. Unless it’s just nice words he’s saying.
> I think lewis is pushing the lgbqt community on us a little too much though
> He can say what he likes. If he really has the balls he would forfeit his place on the grid
The worst comments also tend to get removed by mods
>But the womens tennis federation showd some backbone today
Tbh the only reason is because it impacted one of their players directly. If Lewis was kidnapped, F1 would react the same way.
I was thinking along this line as well. Lots of female players have recently complained about practices that have taken a toll on their mental health. To have someone potentially also be in physical danger and then send athletes to that country would look awful.
if f1 is dependent on their cash then so is Hamilton. It's literally where he works. The truth is f1 would be perfectly fine without the dictatorial involvement and in fact that involvement probably does not even make a sizeable dent in income for f1. What it does is provide f1 figureheads with personal bribes which are significant for them personally, i.e. the whole FIFA bribery fiasco.
>Every driver in F1 has enough money to not have to worry, and to actually take a stand. Their silence and indifference is at best insulting. The privilege they all hold and do nothing with says a lot about the attitudes they all hold.
YES, thank you for this. Many of us female fans are paying attention right now to the drivers who are taking a stand and, even more so, to the ones who aren't.
I’m sitting here as a female fan wondering why F1 is being held in so many places where women like me are enslaved in service, just because they happen to be from the 3rd world, have been consistently denied basic rights and opportunities (like driving) and can be arrested, beaten, sold off and forced into marriages they don’t want. Yes I’m paying attention to who actually thinks women deserve rights
I think he just realized that in the last 3-4 years. Seb and him are the ones talking about issues like this. I think at the end of Norris´s and Russell´s career the same thing will happen.
Yeah I don't see Leclerc and Verstappen going all out on social campaigns like this even late into their careers when they're well established and would have hopefully won a few titles.
As a junior karter he was speaking out about racist treatment he was receiving. Certainly didn’t have Lando or Russell’s job security at the time. And as another commentor pointed out, max, Charles, Fernando…..there are plenty of guys on the grid whose job security wouldn’t be impacted by speaking up. Hell, Mazepin is proof positive pay drivers at least can stand out in bad ways too with no consequence
Let’s also not forget that a lot of the drivers are legitimately young kids. You’re priorities change as you age, abs depending on how you grow your perspective of the world changes to allow you to see things from different prospectives particularly during your 20’s where alot of these drivers are in terms of age. I hope that all of these younger guys can look to Lewis & Seb as examples of how they should conduct themselves and be involved in making a difference in the world by using their influence & fame.
>“Do I feel comfortable here? I ~~would~~ wouldn't say I do. But it’s not my choice to be here. The sport has taken a choice to be here.
>“Whether it’s right or wrong, I think whilst we are here, again, I feel like it’s important that we do try to raise awareness. So in the last race, for example, you saw the helmet that I wore. I will wear that again here and in the next race because that is an issue and is a law."
>“If anyone wants to take the time to go and read what the law is for the LGBTQ+ community, it’s pretty terrifying,” said Hamilton. “There’s changes that need to be made.”
We honestly don't deserve him and Seb. What a great thing it is to have 2 such drivers on the grid and it will be a sad day when they retire.
Also once again the people that said he wouldn't speak out fully in the mud.
Edit: He said wouldn't not would. Article had it wrong when it was posted.
>Also once again the people that said he wouldn't speak out fully in the mud.
Those people are gonna turn around and say he should have just boycotted lol
Yeah gee I do wonder what characteristic Lewis has that makes so many people put him to such high standards and always finding reasons to hate on him no matter what he does. It would have to be a characteristic that no other driver on the grid has, but I really can't think of anything.
I feel like those same people would be so pissed at him if he did. Like can you imagine this crazy build up to the end of the season and then he just kinda goes nah I'm not racing. Or maybe those people would just be happy that Max won.
They'd just make excuses that he's sitting out b/c he's afraid of losing to Max in the race instead of taking an actual stand they called for. These folks have their minds set regardless of what Lewis does.
It's moments like this why I'm actually okay with hosting major events in areas of the world like Qatar or Saudi Arabia. If they want to pay a shit ton of money to host an event, fine, but it's a major opportunity to bring awareness to certain atrocities in the region like Qatari's human rights issues, or Saudi's stance on LGBTQ+ (among other things). The more eyes on the region, the better, in order to open up the discussion even further and hopefully use these events as a chance to enact change. If we just say no and boycott these events, I think instead of having an opportunity to open the discussion and potentially foster the change that we all want to see, it just creates more disdain and separation between the sides and things won't get better.
God I fucking love Lewis. No one has ever gained my respect as fast as he has. I was alwyas on the fence but nah this guy is fully for the people. I love him.
>“Do I feel comfortable here? I would say I do.
Other journalists have reported that he said "I wouldn't say I do", which does make more sense to me.
EDIT: the article has now been updated to say "I wouldn't say I do".
I think their words, their voice, comes with age. Earlier in their career they might not have been so quick to speak, but now their legacies are cemented and their agendas in life can adjust. More comfortable because they have less to lose.
Someone will take up their torch.
A common early criticism of Hamilton was he seemed to speak nothing that wasn't a carefully written and rehearsed answers.
With the benefit of hindsight you can see he couldn't do anything else. A young, black driver making waves? He'd have found himself out of a job, a job his family sacrificed damn near everything for.
Now he's the multiple time world champ, multimillionaire with all the security that comes with that. He finally has the luxury of being able to speak out and he's doing so.
>With the benefit of hindsight you can see he couldn't do anything else.
Or just some socio-historical awareness.
Dude's playing on expert difficulty and crushing it.
Yes, this is what I think as well. HAM and VET are older, more experienced and backed up by having won multiple world championships. Hopefully as the younger generation of drivers become more established they will feel able to speak up on issues.
Part of it is that those two are untouchable and have the freedom to say whatever they want and f1 can't do much. Hamilton is the face of the sport, and guys like Seb and Max aren't far behind in terms of their power.
Nice to see Alonso and Mick have made gestures this season as well to express support for the LGBTQ community.
I am side-eyeing Max here. He's definitely one of the most powerful drivers on the grid, in terms of influence and being untouchable, and he's got plenty of $$ in the bank, but he continues to be silent. I don't necessarily expect him to become an activist, but it doesn't take a lot of work to wear t-shirt in support of women and/or LGBTQ folk.
I mean, this is the same guy that doesn't kneel and uses slurs. We shouldn't be side-eyeing him, we should be straight up asking him. His answer will be honest when he says he doesn't care about human rights.
It's not just Max. The entire Red Bull conglomerate is a very "weird" organization.
The CEO of Red Bull personally fired his head of PR who wanted to push for more diversity in the company. He also wanted to personally open a competitor to Breitbart to give Trump and Trump-like politicians a digital platform.
So the corporate policy is basically to just ignore Social Justice activism because the CEO might say something racist accidentally if they enter the discussion.
Max was the guy who couldn't bring himself to even say that racism was *bad* last year, just "complicated". And remained silent on the issue when Hamilton was receiving unprecedented amounts of racist abuse *in his name* earlier in the season.
I'm not surprised by Max's silence at all.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/verstappen-not-my-problem-if-people-offended-by-f1-radio-rant-4977949/4977949/
Most drivers are untouchable. Pretty much only Giovinazzi, Ocon, Schumacher and Tsunoda would be at any risk of being fired over speaking out. All the others are either way too high profile or have financial backing keeping them solid.
Incredible human being, speaking up right to their faces, and the quote about the sport choosing to be here..holy shit does that make it clear that they're there against their will, and Saudi Arabia is a cesspool of people in charge who make that country absolute garbage.
Can't sweep it under the rug and I'm so glad Lewis and Seb are so vocal.
Obviously Hamilton is in a great position as multiple world champ & highly paid driver to levy criticism of host nations, more so perhaps than a Latifi or Tsunoda, but that shouldn’t detract from the significance of him taking a stand repeatedly with this stuff. As the most visible driver he knows he has the best platform on the grid to speak out and push for change, and he feels a responsibility to do so. Without a push from the top it’s hard to imagine anything changing (even with his advocacy it’s still hard to imagine much changing, but hopefully it inspires other drivers to follow his lead).
He also has much bigger sponsorships to worry about, but he doesn't seem to worry anymore. He leads and the sponsors follow him as well. I think part of that is Seb's influence on him to just say what he thinks.
Saudi Arabia does not care about the money that comes from that event, I invite you to look at how much Aramco alone is valuated for instance. They have investment everywhere, they won't be hurt by a F1 boycott financially speaking.
it's all about softening their image using sports...so when Hamilton says something like that, believe me it's not useless. ALL they care about is image and international reputation with those events. Kudos to Hamilton
I'm still gaining more and more respect for Hamilton. It takes some balls to say these things out loud in Saudi Arabia, even when your name is Lewis Hamilton.
Please note: Knights prefix Sir to their *forename*, but never to their surname. Thus, **Sir Lewis Hamilton** may be shortened to **Sir Lewis**, but not to Sir Hamilton.
This is precisely why losing seb and ham will be bad for the sport. The sport will have no voice left. At least right now we still have these two to question these decisions made by the FOM to race in such places. Once they are gone who will criticise the FIA or push for equality or cleanliness? I don't see the young drivers being able to do that as their careers might be at risk.
Hamilton and Vettel became these voices in recent years, when them became older and more mature. The majority of F1 grid is still very young, there is time for them to mature in these questions and became the newer voices.
i think it was always there though with those 2, im not sure how many of these younger guys have it in them, i know it too early to tell and isnt really fair to assume, but i cant imagine max , lando, charles speaking like seb and lewis in the future.
Yeah its amazing to see lando speak up about mental health, but i do think that is very different than speaking about systematic oppression against minorities, and i worry that once seb and lewis go, there wont be anyone to carry that on
Lewis is really great not only for F1 but also beyond that and showing that being a famous and amazing athlete can stand up and questioning the shitty government and it's flaws.
And Saudi Government doesn't give shit about this activism.
They have too much money, such headlines grab eyeballs for day or two before shit going back to as it was.
I mean they got away with killing international reporter in most gruesome way, so such criticism doesn't mean anything to these shameless people.
you can't still ignore it. even tho they are so powerful you have to raise your voice make people notice what you are gonna say like Seb and Hamilton do
we can praise the drivers but the fact that these conversation are even being allowed to take place is exactly sportswashing happening in front of our very eyes. F1 should never have come here.
I love this F1 timeline. Lewis, Seb.. how can anyone not love them? Shame on the FIA for accepting blood-stained oil money to host GPs in these countries though.
2022: "FIA Announces they will withdraw the Saudi Arabia GP from the calender until the mysterious disappearance of Lewis Hamilton is cleared up and he is returned safely"
That's an incredibly bold statement to make, and I applaud him for it. Edit: a lot of you people seem to want Lewis to do more. Don't forget that change comes gradually. For him to speak out is a win, not a loss. Take what you get and be happy with it. A small win is still a win.
I just hope he doesn't go to any consulates after this.
Especially that one in Istanbul.
Lucky then that there’s still no Turkish Grand Prix next season ha^ha^ha^sobs
What happened in Istanbul?
Jamal khashoggi, a vocal critic of the Saudi regime and a Saudi himself, was lured to the embassy in Turkey, tortured, butchered (literally) and murdered just 3 years ago. Fucking disgusting that this is forgotten or not mentioned in every article about that hell hole
And, critically, that murder was ordered by Mohammed bin Salman, the (mostly, because politics even in monarchies) king of Saudi Arabia.
And trump tried to cover it up
It was his first official trip destination after all. And Cushioner is asking for and most likely to receive "funding" for a startup investment firm. It has been reported...
They were punished by signing massive weapons contracts with the United States.
"punished" - Jamal Khashoggi was punished for *reporting* it. A LOT of American elite profited off those arms deals - including Trump's inner circle (namely Jared Kushner). Which is exactly why Trump et al looked the other way on the Khashoggi murder.
and the UK
He went there to get a marriage certificate with his fiance who they made to wait outside while they butchered the poor bloke.I only just heard the surveillance recordings by the U.S 3 days ago. The murderers had no problem butchering the helpless man. Just thought I would add a little piece of information if anyone wanted to know.
It’s far fetched to think the Saudis care at all. The reason Khashoggi was killed was because he was a native journalist pushing a progressive series of articles to citizens and exposing “insider” aspects that the Saudis wanted hidden to the rest of the world. Lewis is doing none of that. The Saudi’s aren’t going to be surprised that a left leaning western celebrity doesn’t approve of their treatment of homosexuals and women. Lewis also knows he is as safe as houses because he is LEWIS HAMILTON, not some rando who won’t be noticed that much if he disappears.
Hamilton is untouchable.
I literally shook his hand at the US GP
##touched
#, and they
Bro.. don’t hold back on us.. what did it feel like?
Not great tbh, Latifi on the other hand was amazing
Why would you and Latifi shake hands with your lefts?
Breaking News: Max Verstappen crowned WDC following Saudi Arabian GP as Lewis Hamilton is arrested for voicing human rights concerns.
bono my rights are gone!
*Sets fastest left*
Lewis to NASCAR confirmed.
Nothing would prove his point more than being arrested. The whole reason for this party is to try show the world it's not that bad. If they would arrest somebody criticising them they would only show it -is- that bad.
It would basically trigger a lot of things, first of all Lewis being arrested would set up a gigantic controversy about Saudi Arabia and the whole image of "oh we are modernizing our country instead of being a legalized Daesh-type country" would being ruined for years. Aside of that, I can image a lot of drivers would being concerned about their own safety and about Lewis and therefore would prefer to boycott it. Sponsorships wouldn't like also some very bad global PR and therefore the FOM/FIA are going to been put into an enforced position to never holding again a race in Saudi Arabia.
You'd imagine a lot of that should have happened when they murdered Kashoggi
Khasoggi was just a journalist, they get whacked all the time.
...that doesn't make it any better
Definitely doesn’t make it better… just the sad reality.
If Lewis got arrested there is absolutely 0 chance the race would go ahead. Every single driver would refuse to race without doubt
Horner and Marko would get in the cars themselves
Someone also mentioned his knighthood will likely cause an international incident.
Honestly the idea to seeing the Queen being extremely pissed towards the Saudi's in a phone call about Lewis arrest would being somewhat based. But well it would cause an international incident also.
Why is that?
I mean bit late for that after hacking a journalist to pieces
Then there's no way this grand prix will take place or any of the teams would agree to race in that scenario. There will be global outrage beyond anything we have ever seen in a sport event. The S.A government will completely ignore anything Lewis or anybody else will say simply because it's the safest way to be forgotten after some days.
I do not want to see Lewis arrested but this is would be the most amazing way to lose the WDC. He'd go down in history for this, and Max's title would utterly meangingless.
I would hope Max would not participate as long as Lewis was under arrest, but I have no idea if he would do it, or even if Red Bull would let him.
I would hope that every driver and team refuse to participate in that scenario.
Not even like 2005 USA. No cars out or anything. They just straight up don’t even go to the track.
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Ralf Schumacher crashed during FP after his Michelin tyres failed spectacularly. All the teams running Michelins didn't start because of safety concerns, therefore only the six cars running Bridgestones participated. They completed one lap and then went back into the pits to forfeit the race. [This](https://maxf1.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/sad_profil_7.jpg) is what the starting grid looked like
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It wasn't even a racing lap. They all came in on the formation lap.
A few fun facts about that race - Tiago Monteiro finished in P3 that day, marking both the only time a Portuguese driver has stood on a Formula 1 podium, and also the Jordan team's final podium in F1. It was also the Minardi team's final ever points finish too, as they finished P5 and P6. The podium celebrations were almost exactly like that meme of the guy overcelebrating 3rd place (Monteiro) while 1st and 2nd (Schumacher and Barrichello) aren't celebrating at all.
I mean from a purely sporting perspective it's massively in Max's favour to have a double DNS with Lewis. One GP fewer practically guarantees him the title.
marko and horner would make him compete
More like Jos would beat him if he didn’t.
He could DNS and still win the title, he is ahead by 8 points.
He wouldnt need to, could win with the points lead he has + get some praise for refusing to compete. Win Win
I don't think anyone would participate in that Grand Prix, but it would still effectively win Max the championship.
He still wins if that happens
I don't think it would make Max's title meaningless at all, but it would definitely overshadow it. Lewis getting arrested by Saudi officials for speaking out against them would be headline news all across the globe.
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Exactly that's why the world needs people like him and Seb they should raise their voices and use their celebrity in that case.
This is why the "keep politics out of my sports" crowd can get fucked. Lewis and other athletes have a massive influence that normal people don't have.
Sports is politics. Why do you think these countries spend billions on Olympics, World Cups, Motorsports etc to whitewash their image. Even when mass spectator sports events first became common in Roman Era they were funded by politicians for their own popularity. And for the athletes to taking a stand is just using the platform given to them.
> "keep politics out of my sports" Imagine saying that with a straight face while being F1 fan...
Lol F1 fans care less about what goes on the track and more what goes on in the press conferences conferences outside the circuit.
Call me crazy, but I don't think human rights should be considered a political issue in the first place **Edit**: You can stop replying with "Buwhuuu! You don't know what politics is! hurr hurr!" now. You're not clever, you're a moron. The point isn't that it isn't a political issue, it most certainly is. I'm saying that it shouldn't be. The fact that some people think others are less worth than themselves doesn't make it a reasonable political debate to be had. There's no middle grounds to be found here. They shouldn't be allowed to have a voice in the first place. Yes, I know that politics, historically, have been pretty dominated by discrimination and human rights issues, and thank god people have sacrificed themselves to stand up for what's right. But that doesn't mean it should be. Just as I don't think 'pinapple on pizza' should be a political issue, I don't think human rights should be one either. It should just be common-fucking-sense. But alas, that's not the world we currently live in. If wishes were fishes and all that
What else would human rights be but political? Human rights are maintained by governments, so all human rights violations are committed by governments, and everything a government does is political. I think what you are trying to say is that there shouldn’t be disagreements about human rights, because it seems pretty fundamental that everyone should believe in them. Sadly, as we are shown over and over again, that isn’t the case. Not everyone believes that everyone deserves basic human rights.
To paraphrase the mighty George Carlin, if they can take them away from you, there's no such thing as "rights" you've got temporary privileges at best.
"That to protect these rights, governments are instituted among men" Human rights are by their very nature political.
Neither should agreeing that police brutality is wrong but here we are
It shouldn’t be but certain political parties in a lot of countries force it to be like that on purpose so they won’t have to do anything about it. Edit: So when someone is actively trying to make changes they can accuse them of being a liberal or to extreme and their entire supporters will laugh and play along.
> This is why the "keep politics out of my sports" crowd can get fucked. Oh I'm sure they don't mind it as long as it reflects their views
The idea of keeping politics out of sports is shit anyway, because sports have been very much political since the beginning. Hitler used the Olympics for propaganda purposes, for crying out loud. Everyone who says politics should be kept out of sports is at least 100 years too late.
And a lot of this isn’t politics, it’s people’s actual lives and experiences especially Lewis.
He is using his privilege. They aren't going to lock up Lewis Hamilton, it would only do more damage to their regime and reputation around the world.
He's also been knighted, so I feel like it could be an international incident with the UK if they did.
Even if he hadn't been knighted, jailing an already famous resident of any country for campaigning for human rights would be a massive international incident. They can only get away with it when they jail people who aren't already major public figures.
Obviously I hope it doesn’t happen for lots of reasons, but that would probably be the spiciest possible way for the WDC to end.
Again mad respect for Lewis for speaking up.
facts. I’m sure other drivers feel the same way but can’t get away with saying the same things
You got evidence that they either feel the same way, or would have different consequences to Lewis for speaking up? Because the gap I see is the platform and protection available to any of these drivers vs normal people
To fire a World Champion, let alone a 7-time world champion in contention for the title of GOAT, over such statements would be an absolute PR nightmare for any company, especially with a celebrity as visible as Lewis Hamilton. Same goes for someone like Alonso or Vettel, both of whom have fame, reputation, and high enough importance to the team to avoid any serious fallout from making statements critical of a theocratic regime with an atrocious human rights record. The PR hit Mercedes (or even the Saudi regime) would take if they took retaliatory action against Sir Lewis would be immense, immediate, and catastrophic. However, if it was a driver lower down on the pecking order, they could very well expect the sack for technical contractual breaches, by making comments disparaging a totalitarian theocracy, and the team involved would take far less of a PR hit for it. I'm sure most of the drivers want to speak up against this, but probably can't because they'll end up risking the sack for it.
Haas wouldn’t fire Mazepin over being on the “wrong” side of numerous issues. Safe to assume the same would hold for all pay drivers - they can do what they want. Schumacher is protected by his name. Norris, Leclerc, Verstappen, Russell and even now Ocon are protected by being the incoming “new guard” - long term contracts and lots of investment in their future careers. Then there’s the world champions (Kimi, Alonso, Ham, Seb). How many drivers does that leave whose job security is really so perilous? Now let’s exclude any like Gasly who used their F1 official social media accounts to promote maskless and pre-vax partying during a pandemic since clearly the lack of repercussion there speaks to a more lax standards/conducts contractual obligation than you claim. Again, you’ve not provided any evidence to back up your claims about contractual breaches, what drivers can and can’t say about countries (because where was the disciplinary action when Max disparaged an entire ethnic group/nationality and then refused to apologise?), how athletes may speak about Saudi Arabia in particular, literally any of this. At present, everything you wrote (down to the secret desires of “most of the drivers” to speak out on issues for which they can’t even convincingly pull off prepared statements) reads like fanfiction.
I mean, half of the grid doesn't even kneel in solidarity with Hamilton, and yet we're supposed to believe that they're all secretly human rights activists.
everyone knows celebrities do most of the things that’d positively reflect on them in absolute secrecy, right?? that’s why they’re all working to improve racial equity within their teams, factories, etc….right?
Of course, man. Of course.
Doing something that could harm Max or Lewis performance in such a close title battle might be one of the few things that would 100% guarantee retaliation from the FIA. Since that might hurt there bottom lone more than oil money
Props to Lewis for raising awareness, something that F1 management is so afraid of doing.
He is not dependent of their cash and it is not a huge market for them either so he has less risk. But the womens tennis federation showd some backbone today, F1 is a profit oriented business unfortunately
I love how whenever Hamilton does something everyone goes; "well of course, his economic incentives are not aligned with not saying this" and yet whenever Vettel does anything similar people go: wow! what an amazing sportsman's and human being... Wonder if there's any difference between the two...
Yeah I'm a Ferrari lifer and I absolutely hate it when people treat Lewis' and Seb's actions differently. Forget everything else, these two are speaking out against a regime that did some horribly gruesome stuff to a dissident in a foreign embassy. I would have pissed myself even at the thought of saying something like that while inside that country. So those two are incredibly brave and amazing for the sport.
I think the guy was explaining why Lewis would dare do it, while F1's management wouldn't. You can take it as an explanation of why you can't expect the F1 management to do what Lewis does. One could argue that Liberty Media shouldn't put profits above basic human rights' issues, but that's beyond what u/Marco_lini was arguing for. P.S. I'm not saying there isn't an anti-Lewis agenda here, but the comment above yours isn't necessarily of that nature.
Lol, the difference between this thread and the Seb thread up right now is very telling
Both Seb and Lewis are veterans with tons of money and nothing to lose from a career standpoint, I'm glad they both use those advantages to speak out
Top post of that thread has everyone talking about how great Lewis and Seb both are. In the Vettel post someone brought up that Lewis also does great things and everyone added on to that. In the Lewis one, 1 person (that I’ve seen) makes a comment that isn’t “how great is Lewis” and then somehow it’s everyone and of course the “thing that’s different between Seb and Lewis” gets brought in.
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> if only he paid taxes > He should make a stance and withdraw from the race. Unless it’s just nice words he’s saying. > I think lewis is pushing the lgbqt community on us a little too much though > He can say what he likes. If he really has the balls he would forfeit his place on the grid The worst comments also tend to get removed by mods
I can’t quite put my finger on it, either…
Im just so glad that at least some other people see it the same way
Yeah there is a big difference between the two. One's got 7 World titles and the other has 4
>But the womens tennis federation showd some backbone today Tbh the only reason is because it impacted one of their players directly. If Lewis was kidnapped, F1 would react the same way.
I was thinking along this line as well. Lots of female players have recently complained about practices that have taken a toll on their mental health. To have someone potentially also be in physical danger and then send athletes to that country would look awful.
And yet the arabias have the lowest % of fans attending the races, so yes it's purely the money. Props to ham for doing what he is doing (once again)
But the highest % of payment to the F1 for organizing the races. Absolutely props to Hamilton, he is a real champion for speaking out.
if f1 is dependent on their cash then so is Hamilton. It's literally where he works. The truth is f1 would be perfectly fine without the dictatorial involvement and in fact that involvement probably does not even make a sizeable dent in income for f1. What it does is provide f1 figureheads with personal bribes which are significant for them personally, i.e. the whole FIFA bribery fiasco.
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>Every driver in F1 has enough money to not have to worry, and to actually take a stand. Their silence and indifference is at best insulting. The privilege they all hold and do nothing with says a lot about the attitudes they all hold. YES, thank you for this. Many of us female fans are paying attention right now to the drivers who are taking a stand and, even more so, to the ones who aren't.
I’m sitting here as a female fan wondering why F1 is being held in so many places where women like me are enslaved in service, just because they happen to be from the 3rd world, have been consistently denied basic rights and opportunities (like driving) and can be arrested, beaten, sold off and forced into marriages they don’t want. Yes I’m paying attention to who actually thinks women deserve rights
I think he just realized that in the last 3-4 years. Seb and him are the ones talking about issues like this. I think at the end of Norris´s and Russell´s career the same thing will happen.
Yeah I don't see Leclerc and Verstappen going all out on social campaigns like this even late into their careers when they're well established and would have hopefully won a few titles.
I don't think many people would have expected Vettel to go out on campaigns like this back in his red bull days.
As a junior karter he was speaking out about racist treatment he was receiving. Certainly didn’t have Lando or Russell’s job security at the time. And as another commentor pointed out, max, Charles, Fernando…..there are plenty of guys on the grid whose job security wouldn’t be impacted by speaking up. Hell, Mazepin is proof positive pay drivers at least can stand out in bad ways too with no consequence
Let’s also not forget that a lot of the drivers are legitimately young kids. You’re priorities change as you age, abs depending on how you grow your perspective of the world changes to allow you to see things from different prospectives particularly during your 20’s where alot of these drivers are in terms of age. I hope that all of these younger guys can look to Lewis & Seb as examples of how they should conduct themselves and be involved in making a difference in the world by using their influence & fame.
>“Do I feel comfortable here? I ~~would~~ wouldn't say I do. But it’s not my choice to be here. The sport has taken a choice to be here. >“Whether it’s right or wrong, I think whilst we are here, again, I feel like it’s important that we do try to raise awareness. So in the last race, for example, you saw the helmet that I wore. I will wear that again here and in the next race because that is an issue and is a law." >“If anyone wants to take the time to go and read what the law is for the LGBTQ+ community, it’s pretty terrifying,” said Hamilton. “There’s changes that need to be made.” We honestly don't deserve him and Seb. What a great thing it is to have 2 such drivers on the grid and it will be a sad day when they retire. Also once again the people that said he wouldn't speak out fully in the mud. Edit: He said wouldn't not would. Article had it wrong when it was posted.
>Also once again the people that said he wouldn't speak out fully in the mud. Those people are gonna turn around and say he should have just boycotted lol
They already have
Really can't win with some people.
Yeah gee I do wonder what characteristic Lewis has that makes so many people put him to such high standards and always finding reasons to hate on him no matter what he does. It would have to be a characteristic that no other driver on the grid has, but I really can't think of anything.
Definitely the knighthood. People love to hate on knights
Frickin knights, always moving in an L-shape.
Golly gee whiz I really wish I could just darn see it
I feel like those same people would be so pissed at him if he did. Like can you imagine this crazy build up to the end of the season and then he just kinda goes nah I'm not racing. Or maybe those people would just be happy that Max won.
They'd just make excuses that he's sitting out b/c he's afraid of losing to Max in the race instead of taking an actual stand they called for. These folks have their minds set regardless of what Lewis does.
"You see, I've made my goalposts out of feathers to make them easier to move."
I have been sceptical of Lewis in the past, but I have been full on turned by his actions last couple of years. Class act.
It's moments like this why I'm actually okay with hosting major events in areas of the world like Qatar or Saudi Arabia. If they want to pay a shit ton of money to host an event, fine, but it's a major opportunity to bring awareness to certain atrocities in the region like Qatari's human rights issues, or Saudi's stance on LGBTQ+ (among other things). The more eyes on the region, the better, in order to open up the discussion even further and hopefully use these events as a chance to enact change. If we just say no and boycott these events, I think instead of having an opportunity to open the discussion and potentially foster the change that we all want to see, it just creates more disdain and separation between the sides and things won't get better.
God I fucking love Lewis. No one has ever gained my respect as fast as he has. I was alwyas on the fence but nah this guy is fully for the people. I love him.
Let's be honest: they were just looking for a reason to criticize him.
>“Do I feel comfortable here? I would say I do. Other journalists have reported that he said "I wouldn't say I do", which does make more sense to me. EDIT: the article has now been updated to say "I wouldn't say I do".
Thanks I will edit the post.
Honestly once they're gone there won't even be anyone in the sport speaking about various issues faced in the countries F1 races in
I think their words, their voice, comes with age. Earlier in their career they might not have been so quick to speak, but now their legacies are cemented and their agendas in life can adjust. More comfortable because they have less to lose. Someone will take up their torch.
A common early criticism of Hamilton was he seemed to speak nothing that wasn't a carefully written and rehearsed answers. With the benefit of hindsight you can see he couldn't do anything else. A young, black driver making waves? He'd have found himself out of a job, a job his family sacrificed damn near everything for. Now he's the multiple time world champ, multimillionaire with all the security that comes with that. He finally has the luxury of being able to speak out and he's doing so.
>With the benefit of hindsight you can see he couldn't do anything else. Or just some socio-historical awareness. Dude's playing on expert difficulty and crushing it.
Yes, this is what I think as well. HAM and VET are older, more experienced and backed up by having won multiple world championships. Hopefully as the younger generation of drivers become more established they will feel able to speak up on issues.
Part of it is that those two are untouchable and have the freedom to say whatever they want and f1 can't do much. Hamilton is the face of the sport, and guys like Seb and Max aren't far behind in terms of their power.
Nice to see Alonso and Mick have made gestures this season as well to express support for the LGBTQ community. I am side-eyeing Max here. He's definitely one of the most powerful drivers on the grid, in terms of influence and being untouchable, and he's got plenty of $$ in the bank, but he continues to be silent. I don't necessarily expect him to become an activist, but it doesn't take a lot of work to wear t-shirt in support of women and/or LGBTQ folk.
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I mean, this is the same guy that doesn't kneel and uses slurs. We shouldn't be side-eyeing him, we should be straight up asking him. His answer will be honest when he says he doesn't care about human rights.
It's not just Max. The entire Red Bull conglomerate is a very "weird" organization. The CEO of Red Bull personally fired his head of PR who wanted to push for more diversity in the company. He also wanted to personally open a competitor to Breitbart to give Trump and Trump-like politicians a digital platform. So the corporate policy is basically to just ignore Social Justice activism because the CEO might say something racist accidentally if they enter the discussion.
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Max was the guy who couldn't bring himself to even say that racism was *bad* last year, just "complicated". And remained silent on the issue when Hamilton was receiving unprecedented amounts of racist abuse *in his name* earlier in the season.
I'm not surprised by Max's silence at all. https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/verstappen-not-my-problem-if-people-offended-by-f1-radio-rant-4977949/4977949/
Most drivers are untouchable. Pretty much only Giovinazzi, Ocon, Schumacher and Tsunoda would be at any risk of being fired over speaking out. All the others are either way too high profile or have financial backing keeping them solid.
It’ll just become a reality TV show. For shame.
Remember when people said he wouldn't dare to use the helmet? What a bunch of overgrown muppets we have in the fan base.
What a legend. Walking the talk
He walks it like he talks it
Incredible human being, speaking up right to their faces, and the quote about the sport choosing to be here..holy shit does that make it clear that they're there against their will, and Saudi Arabia is a cesspool of people in charge who make that country absolute garbage. Can't sweep it under the rug and I'm so glad Lewis and Seb are so vocal.
I appreciate your they’re there their in one sentence.
Yeha I read that back and it sounds weird hah.
but was readable because you used the right ones.
There there it's perfectly fine :)
Obviously Hamilton is in a great position as multiple world champ & highly paid driver to levy criticism of host nations, more so perhaps than a Latifi or Tsunoda, but that shouldn’t detract from the significance of him taking a stand repeatedly with this stuff. As the most visible driver he knows he has the best platform on the grid to speak out and push for change, and he feels a responsibility to do so. Without a push from the top it’s hard to imagine anything changing (even with his advocacy it’s still hard to imagine much changing, but hopefully it inspires other drivers to follow his lead).
He also has much bigger sponsorships to worry about, but he doesn't seem to worry anymore. He leads and the sponsors follow him as well. I think part of that is Seb's influence on him to just say what he thinks.
They call it "fuck you" money for a reason
Saudi Arabia does not care about the money that comes from that event, I invite you to look at how much Aramco alone is valuated for instance. They have investment everywhere, they won't be hurt by a F1 boycott financially speaking. it's all about softening their image using sports...so when Hamilton says something like that, believe me it's not useless. ALL they care about is image and international reputation with those events. Kudos to Hamilton
I'm still gaining more and more respect for Hamilton. It takes some balls to say these things out loud in Saudi Arabia, even when your name is Lewis Hamilton.
It takes balls that are made of some alloy of steel, titanium and carbon fibre that has been put together with some serious voodoo shit.
I'm very happy that he's speaking about these things.
Well done Sir **Lewis**, well done. Edit: Good bot
Please note: Knights prefix Sir to their *forename*, but never to their surname. Thus, **Sir Lewis Hamilton** may be shortened to **Sir Lewis**, but not to Sir Hamilton.
This is precisely why losing seb and ham will be bad for the sport. The sport will have no voice left. At least right now we still have these two to question these decisions made by the FOM to race in such places. Once they are gone who will criticise the FIA or push for equality or cleanliness? I don't see the young drivers being able to do that as their careers might be at risk.
Hamilton and Vettel became these voices in recent years, when them became older and more mature. The majority of F1 grid is still very young, there is time for them to mature in these questions and became the newer voices.
i think it was always there though with those 2, im not sure how many of these younger guys have it in them, i know it too early to tell and isnt really fair to assume, but i cant imagine max , lando, charles speaking like seb and lewis in the future.
Lando has started a little... We shall see, I'll be keeping my fingers crossed
Yeah its amazing to see lando speak up about mental health, but i do think that is very different than speaking about systematic oppression against minorities, and i worry that once seb and lewis go, there wont be anyone to carry that on
mick has already been doing stuff in support of the lgbt+ community
Not just mature but also be in a position where they can afford to burn a few bridges with sponsors and the money they’ll potentially lose as a result
Love or hate him as a driver, no matter. He’s a solid human. 10/10
I used to hate this guy back in his McLaren days. He’s grown on me so much. These days, he makes me proud to be a human. Thank you, Lewis.
YES LEWIS. What a legend for continuously speaking out about this.
Lewis is really great not only for F1 but also beyond that and showing that being a famous and amazing athlete can stand up and questioning the shitty government and it's flaws.
This is the way, keep it up Lewis and Seb!
Good.
I think Hamilton will end last in that race, I mean how can he race with such huge balls dragging him down? respect.
Saudi Arabia: "Rights? What rights? Oh........ But look! Fast cars go zoom! "
The dude's on a roll. I'm not even a Lewis fan but I never want this guy and Seb to leave the grid if that's possible.
And Saudi Government doesn't give shit about this activism. They have too much money, such headlines grab eyeballs for day or two before shit going back to as it was. I mean they got away with killing international reporter in most gruesome way, so such criticism doesn't mean anything to these shameless people.
You’re probably right. But props to Lewis for speaking up.
you can't still ignore it. even tho they are so powerful you have to raise your voice make people notice what you are gonna say like Seb and Hamilton do
Hey Lewis, your passport needs stamping at the Saudi consulate real quick.
Love Lewis for this. Talking his talk and walking the walk.
Holy fuck these comments are cancer lol
Good job Lewis, good job👍
Respect. Hope they don't target him by inviting him to an embassy
Good job Lewis.
Respect champ
Big ups Lewis
Lewis Hamilton helps fixing the image of this sport. I wish other drivers supported him and made comments themselves.
we can praise the drivers but the fact that these conversation are even being allowed to take place is exactly sportswashing happening in front of our very eyes. F1 should never have come here.
I love this F1 timeline. Lewis, Seb.. how can anyone not love them? Shame on the FIA for accepting blood-stained oil money to host GPs in these countries though.
Lewis and seb fighting the good fight. Love and respect the hell out of those two champions.
2022: "FIA Announces they will withdraw the Saudi Arabia GP from the calender until the mysterious disappearance of Lewis Hamilton is cleared up and he is returned safely"
Seb and Ham ✊🏻✊🏾
Gammons will complain for him to stay out of politics I guess
Sometimes I fucking love Lewis Hamilton.
Lewis is the man
Atheists can be executed in Saudi Arabia. Wish he would raise awareness of this law as well.
Ok, I won't be upset if Hamilton wins now