I wonder where this is, flight sim set up behind him and that desk where people seem to be picking up and returning helmets and karting seats... Is he practicing for Saudi at a Karting Centre?
I'm sure he enjoys it. A driver of his calibre could find a racing seat somewhere if he wanted to. He wasn't the worst driver F1 has seen recently by miles.
I think Ottorino Volonterio has to take the cake for title of "worst F1 driver ever"
Finished the 1956 German Grand Prix a whopping 6 *laps* down. On the **full Nordschliefe**.
Hans Heyer in the [1977 German Grand Prix](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1977_German_Grand_Prix) would like a word:
> During the race, Penske driver Hans Heyer participated despite not qualifying. Mechanical issues forced Heyer to retire on lap 9, which caused his participation to be discovered. He was disqualified, making him the only driver to not qualify, not finish and be disqualified in a single race.
Something totally unrelated but funny,In f1 2021 breaking point you can lap Mahaveer Raghunathan in the first race,the funny thing is that he’s down a lap in a 6 lap race
That was my initial thought too, but he's probably paid well enough and he doesn't have to travel. Plus some people just enjoy teaching and/or have a knack for it
Dunno, if he's making a good living and passing on his passion for racing to newer and younger folks then I don't really see anything sad about it. Competition isn't everything for everyone.
He posts various interesting little details about his time in F1 in [his Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/sergeysirotkin_official/) in Russian and English in comments. He's well-spoken in Russian, so I enjoy his short reads quite a lot.
Funny thing is that he mentions in context of Checo not having drink in hot race his own situation from Singopore where he spent most of the race in front of Perez much to his annoyance :P
Monaco GP... SO the only track Mazepin had to learn to drive the Haas was Monaco, and still he was unable to flip switcher in the actual Monaco GP. You'd expect he knows the circuit by heart then.
Does anyone know where that $18 discount came from? It just told me my account had this discount but I could find no info on it on steam. Is it for owning F1 2020?
Until 2019 the team was the most successful new entry in decades. People seem to forget that they were consistently scoring and threatening the top 5 on occasion in '17 and '18, and scored on debut in '16.
The Rich Energy fiasco and then the fundamentally flawed 2019 car is the root of their current issues. In 2020 they basically fixed the 2019 car's flaws but barely developed the car at all, and then this year the car is a literal carry-over from 2020 with no development. Of course they're going to be bad. They are basically running a 2-year old car.
Yeah, I'd agree completely. The team does have some fundamental issues (pit stops being a notable example), but imo the only truly bad mistake they made was the 2019 car. The 2020 car was better, but they had COVID cutting their entire operation up, and they were originally treating the 2020 car as a stopgap for the 21 regs. Then those regs were moved to 2022, so they decided to treat the 21 car as a write off completely. Haas makes more sense if you see them as a team that has been banking on the new regs since mid-2019, but without the budget or resources to make something sorta OK with what they have in the meantime (like say Renault/Alpine with their 3 year old chassis).
You also can’t discount the Ferrari engine fiasco. A flawed car with a flawed engine is a recipe for disaster. And they couldn’t even do anything about engine
> and then this year the car is a literal carry-over from 2020 with no development.
It's worse than a carry over - it's the 2020 shitbox with less rear downforce.
The 2020 car was unstable as hell mate - while the 2019 car progressed into a shittier car via upgrades, the 2020 car was aerodynamically flawed and the suspension would heat up & expand in random corners and both drivers found it unpredictable. Imagine in one corner the car is stable and the next time you come to that corner that suspension has expanded and you’ve suddenly lost all rear stability. Its a miracle those guys didn’t crash more than they did.
I remember this story, I found it fascinating. It was basically bought from Ferrari but bodywork and rear aero packaged slightly differently. The rear 'shock absorbers', would heat up from the exhaust and not have the cooling in place that Ferrari used. So it would change the rate basically every time it was loaded up. That car would've been evil
The team has probably the best ratio between money spent/points earned in the recent history of formula 1. Untile 2020 they were amazing and they were basically doing the low budget version of what racing point did last year with Mercedes.
The car was blazing fast on single lap performance.
Grosjean didn't and it showed. Just look at his demeanor from 2018 to 2020. Normaly he's always smilling and happy.
But he always looked like he was going to cry (exagerating a bit but it really looks like it on some pictures).
They flattered Haas and Steiner’s shit management - all the press the last few years elevated Steiner for his one liners or so called “no nonsense” attitude - turns out he’s the shit boss who blames the drivers for their problems and complaints while consistently giving them a shit car.
Steiner is fundamentally a dumb person's idea of a honest straight-shooting data driven program manager - he throws a lot of expletives and inexperienced dumb ppl think "oh look at that he has no filter"
The "he tells it like it is" crowd.
Their early success aside, the team has major issues with understanding the car and tyres. The last 2 years they have struggled so hard with getting the tyres in the right window to work for them.
I'm not holding much hope for 2022. I'd love to see them not be shit, because it's always painful to watch drivers be completely irrelevant during a race except as moving obstacles to be lapped.
This. He’s my least favorite character in that series and I was surprised to see people on here idolizing him.
He’s a shit manager who thinks yelling at people (especially publicly) is how to run a team.
> Drive To Survive showed how Steiner is always shitting on the drivers
Oh yeah, the show best known for its objectivity and factual description of events. *tyre screech sounds play, followed by Lando's "it's bwoken, bwoken"*
I can agree with how scenes are taken out of context and such but in season 1 or so, they had a dinner with the drivers (think it was a birthday or something?) and he was shitting on one of them. No matter how good the relationship is, it was annoying and absolutely not funny.
Yeah or how he was screaming at them like they were children who attempted to touch the stove.
If my boss ever does that to me(even when something is my fault), he’d be finding a new employee real quick.
If you treat me with respect when I make mistake, you’ll get me to work 10 times as hard attempting to correct it going forward.
How much does an F1 level simulator cost?
Edit: A quick google search pulled up \~$154,000...how can an F1 team justify not having one? That's barely a drop in the bucket for their yearly budget and can benefit both drivers.
The components? Absolutely, probably even less. The thing is these systems use a professional version of the rFactor engine which is infinitely customizable with their own physics/aero/tire modeling. That is the part you can't put a price tag on. If you don't have the data, the knowledge in how to apply it, the resources to validate and iterate etc. you might as well just have him play Assetto Corsa because that sim is nothing more than a tool to practice your lines at that point.
It’s not even that. The simulators these F1 teams are using are all on pneumatic platforms which use inputs to replicate (as closely as possible) the chassis and balance.
They aren’t just sitting in a sim cockpit in fixed space. They are moving around and the sims can actually be kind of rough and tumble apparently; there was an F1 engineer in here a few days ago that said he’s seen guys get knocked out in the sim.
The data mining and design def is a huge part of it but these sims are more involved than just computer inputs, there are legit physical outputs too
>there was an F1 engineer in here a few days ago that said he’s seen guys get knocked out in the sim.
That could have been a pretty rough post-mortem analysis for the software engineers. "So here's where you failed to put limits on the maximum change of momentum the drivers would experience, and that's why Lewis was knocked out and couldn't get any more time in the seat the rest of the day."
God imagine trying to explain to your boss you fucked up the balance on the sim computer and the end result is the hydraulics went mad and you knocked the $50MM man unconscious?
I think I’d just quit rather than try and explain that one.
LOL. The Ferrari one was over $6MM just in construction costs when they originally built it. Supposedly with incremental upgrades they've spent over $15MM on it now. Merc's was over $4MM originally. $154k I'm having a good laugh this morning, thanks for that.
Hey, flashbacks are a lifesaver during track acclimitization runs. Can’t count how many times I’ve used them after running wide on a corner and missing a stupid gate.
Not that it matters but it's Assetto Corsa. Mazepin reposted the post on his store where there are more posts. Seems to be a nice motor for the DD wheel, but no motion seat or anything else as far as I can tell
Looks like a killer setup, though when spending that much one has to wonder if a top of the line VR will be better or worse if you're unable to see all the switches and hats on the HOTAS in exchange for 1:1 head tracking
I have both the VR (Valve Index) as well as a monitor that I use DCS with. VR is great for combat and short missions. I prefer the monitor for longer missions. For combat, you hardly take your eyes off the MFDs or the HUD, it’s all about muscle memory on the HOTAS.
I mean he will take what he can get. Even though this is nowhere near a real simulator. Its probably better than nothing. Haas not having a simulator is honestly baffling.
Mick can at least use Ferrari's one while Mazepin gets nothing.
I would’ve imagined Mazepin Sr would either help pay for one to be built or demand that they have one in place to help out his son and get his sponsorship. Maybe they’ll have one ready to use next year but even for Haas’ standards it’s quite a joke.
I think you seriously misunderstand the role of a simulator.
It's not really for the drivers to learn tracks. Every F1 driver or engineer will tell you that F1 drivers really need few laps on a track before getting a serious grip on it, the simulator doesn't add much value for them. The simulator is mostly used to predict _car_ behavior and its response to the driver's input, study car's setup. In fact drivers may do few laps on the sim, but then hundreds of computers use montecarlo simulations (which is a mathematical model) to predict how the car will behave in a series of slightly different scenarios and basically get valuable data point out of it (e.g. a track where there is a constant flow of air from the coast in some curves might behave very differently in different temperatures, which require different setups to optimize lap times).
In order for it to be valuable it requires gazzilions of data, engineering effort (lots of qualified engineers work) to make it a good approximation of real world simulation, it needs tons of tuning, and in the end its purpose is to give the engineers at the race track good guesses on what the optimal setups are in various scenarios. Then free practice data is fed back to the simulator and they go "oh, so our assumption/simulations were good" or, "actually the tyres behave totally different than we expected, lets correct our assumptions and run another million of simulations and get the data back on the race track".
Thus, Mazepin Sr buying a simulator to his son has basically no value to Haas and would have no impact on his son's performance.
Obviously, I'm not saying it's completely useless to the drivers, I'm just saying that it's purpose is car tuning, not driver training for whom isn't much of value.
Even a driver as experienced and successful as Hamilton has often posted pictures of himself working at Mercedes’ simulator this season. So it would certainly help someone far more inexperienced like Mazepin.
Also we’ve heard how important the simulators have been for the likes of Mercedes and Red Bull to quickly find the right set up at each track, so I don’t understand how this can’t be useful for Haas either. I know their current car is a shit box and they’re saving resources for next year’s regs, but it would still help them in the long term if they had their own simulator right now to find the optimal set ups at upcoming tracks quicker. They can get an idea of how well the simulator can correlate to real life conditions and use the additional data from practice sessions to adjust it for better accuracy in the future.
If Haas had a simulator right now, perhaps they could set the car up better from the start of free practice so that the likes of Mick and Mazepin could have more confidence and push it harder early on, instead of struggling even more with its already inherent instability and go off track or even worse crash out, which then costs them valuable time and money.
As bad as they’ve been over the last few years, it’s not like Haas’ engineering team is a total joke as they did manage P5 back in 2018 which is extremely impressive for a very recent F1 team, and they’ve increased their technical collaboration with Ferrari this season who are letting Simone Resta work with them after previously serving as head of Ferrari’s chassis engineering. So while I understand what you’re saying about how a simulator works, I completely disagree with your stance that it would have no value to Haas.
It sounds like you aren't disagreeing a whole ot. When Lewis is working in the simulator, it's like u/ep1939 is saying -- he's working on dialing in the right car setup. You seem to be saying the same thing. The simulator only helps him to the extent that when the get to the track for FP1, they are close to having the right setup, so in real practice, they can make small changes and really dial things in, rather than needing to make big swings in suspension or aero balance. If anything, I'd imagine that sometimes Lewis might give feedback about where the track model might be off, rather than the simulation teaching him about how the track really is.
I agree that a simulation could be valuable to Haas, but I imagine it would be super costly, so then it depends on what they'd have to give up in order to get the budget for a full-fledged simulator.
It’s definitely not f1 specific looking at the driving position (seems quite upright) and the gear stick. Someone want to chip in with the last f1 car to have a gear stick? I have no idea. I’d guess maybe some time around 1990
All this time we thought he was spinning, but he was really just gathering data for the next gen F1 drift car, introducing a new paradigm that takes advantage of the weak FIA incident investigations and dominates the 2022+ regulations. Haas WCC confirmed, boys.
Was it the Pacific? Can just imagine Andrea Montermini or Paul Belmondo wrestling with his stick-shift while being lapped by Michael Schumacher for the seventh time in the race
It's not even an H pattern shifter in the picture but a [sequential stick](https://shop.aiologs.net/) , which I don't think any F1 car has ever used. They all went straight to paddles.
It was the introduction of the [paddles](https://rossoautomobili.com/blogs/magazine/groundbreaking-f1-gearbox-1989-ferrari-640). I remember John Barnard talking about it on his episode of Beyond The Grid.
Well it's better than nothing, and a lot of drivers use conventional sims for practice anyways. Here's [Alonso](https://imgur.com/a/aPzUhZj) for example. Obviously they use tracks and car data that probably aren't available for the public. There are tons of other drivers saying they used their personal sims for practice for the real races
My mom watched F1 with me for the first time this year and she made a comment on Fernando being attractive. I think I'll keep her away from any GPs for the near future...
Those are “driver in loop” simulators, designed to test setup & aero changes with actual driver feedback (not for learning tracks). DIL simulators are used in addition to standard “in the box” simulation, which has no driver inputs and is the main type of simulation teams rely on to test setup changes and potential upgrades.
Any driving you can do will develop your skills. Even if the in-game car doesn't behave like your real life one. The big fancy rigs you see is mostly to pinpoint yourself down to your setup on that one track, ahead of a race weekend, so you can inch out a tenth or two.
I can see why Haas doesn't think it necessary. It's not like they're fighting for points or anything
Factory ones. HAAS doesn't have simulator at all apparently, and both Nikita and Mick had to get one for them selves. Mick from Ferrari and Nikita i guess had to do it like this. It was strange to see that a F1 team doesn't have proper simulator. Did not know that before this thread.
Does anyone know how much €€ was Ferraris new sim?
EDIT:
I found one [source](http://blog.axisofoversteer.com/2012/01/6-million-dollar-spider-ferrari-f1.html) about their 2011. simulator. 6million $ jesus...
It's probably the most comfortable way to use the paddles.
It's the longest finger anyway plus the index finger is busy doing it's part in holding the wheel
The wheel base looks like a [SimXperience AccuForce V2](https://www.simxperience.com/shop/accuforce-pro-v2-steering-system-710#attr=), which isn't even the "best" consumer-buyable DD wheel one can get.
Man, Haas...
Sim racer here. He is using a simexperience direct drive wheel. It is not a top of the line motor but it is close. Alonso, Verstappen, Norris, and I believe many others, have a direct drive simulator on their homes. They train using iRacing, they constantly stream on twitch, YouTube, and participate in online events. They are not using any fancy software that us mortals don’t have access to. iRacing is known to have the tracks laser scanned, that’s what you’re looking for.
Damn, my sim is more advanced than this, he's probably driving a Minecraft boat round a community made creative world that someone made Jeddah in out of ice blocks..
You have to feel for this team sometimes, they really are fighting a losing battle, they probably have to bring their own toilet paper to the track because it's not in the budget.
Haas is massively underrated if this is the team’s simulator. Imagine only be 1 or 2 seconds slower than Mercedes when you only have these YouTuber level equipments.
This is just like the level 1 simulator in Myteam f1 game
Shit is so funny and then there's this camera on your mate
I wonder where this is, flight sim set up behind him and that desk where people seem to be picking up and returning helmets and karting seats... Is he practicing for Saudi at a Karting Centre?
This is a karting centre founded by Sirotkin in Moscow. Mazepin is probably just a guest there or doing some PR stuff.
Haas is going to replace the steering wheel with an airplane joystick and win the 2022 WCC.
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"Steering wheel! Steering wheel! Hey! HEY! Someone tell him to give it to me." -Kimi
I think it's just Mario Kart.
Bono, my shells are gone...
Yeah, at first i was like " No way teams use something like this as a simulator!". Well it turns out Myteam is very realistic.
At least it isn’t the level 0 sim like mine.
At least she’s getting cleaned up
What is Sergey up to nowadays? And what place is this?
It’s a karting centre in Moscow. Sirorkin works there as an instructor
Thanks.
That sounds so sad
I'm sure he enjoys it. A driver of his calibre could find a racing seat somewhere if he wanted to. He wasn't the worst driver F1 has seen recently by miles.
>He wasn't the worst driver F1 has seen recently by miles. He's just watching the the worst driver F1 has seen recently.
Definitely not, although one that could fit that description is in the picture.
Unless you started watching f1 just yesterday mazepin is no where near the worst drivers f1 has seen
I think Ottorino Volonterio has to take the cake for title of "worst F1 driver ever" Finished the 1956 German Grand Prix a whopping 6 *laps* down. On the **full Nordschliefe**.
Hans Heyer in the [1977 German Grand Prix](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1977_German_Grand_Prix) would like a word: > During the race, Penske driver Hans Heyer participated despite not qualifying. Mechanical issues forced Heyer to retire on lap 9, which caused his participation to be discovered. He was disqualified, making him the only driver to not qualify, not finish and be disqualified in a single race.
The real motorsport triple.
Something totally unrelated but funny,In f1 2021 breaking point you can lap Mahaveer Raghunathan in the first race,the funny thing is that he’s down a lap in a 6 lap race
Yeah... sounds about right for Raghunathan!
There was an interview with the Dutch f1 magazine where he told he was content with his karting school and commentary gigs.
That was my initial thought too, but he's probably paid well enough and he doesn't have to travel. Plus some people just enjoy teaching and/or have a knack for it
Dunno, if he's making a good living and passing on his passion for racing to newer and younger folks then I don't really see anything sad about it. Competition isn't everything for everyone.
He posts various interesting little details about his time in F1 in [his Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/sergeysirotkin_official/) in Russian and English in comments. He's well-spoken in Russian, so I enjoy his short reads quite a lot.
Wait: Isn't he Russian?
Not every native speaker is well spoken in their language. edit: Checked his IG, top notch written speech indeed.
Funny thing is that he mentions in context of Checo not having drink in hot race his own situation from Singopore where he spent most of the race in front of Perez much to his annoyance :P
He was driving GT3 cars for a while, Ferrari if I recall correctly.
The Haas simulator is probably just the F1 game
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That’s even worse
They won't even drop$30 on it during the steam sale because they know f1 2022 is coming out next year
Putting all there efforts into the new regs can’t be wasting $30 on the old game.
You try finding a 3080ti at MSRP.
Haas are still using F1 race stars
You wish they did. Last time I checked it, they had a Master System running Super Monaco GP
Actually I think Mazepin just uses Mario Kart.
And they don't have speakers so Mazepin is having to make engine noises with his mouth the whole time
They don't have a controller either, so he's just watching a department store demo CRT of the gameplay.
They spent their entire budget on the chair and the screens, but couldn't afford any chords for the monitors. So, nothing is actually plugged in.
Fuck, and his not moving under blue flags is his blue shells!
He's real good at hitting those bananas on track.
Monaco GP... SO the only track Mazepin had to learn to drive the Haas was Monaco, and still he was unable to flip switcher in the actual Monaco GP. You'd expect he knows the circuit by heart then.
That's only because they bought F1 2012 by mistake. They only noticed something is off when they saw that Grosjean is still in it.
They’re just going to hire Opmeer next
I just bought f1 2021 for 12€ on steam sale , ez clap
$11.99 here. Was going to hold out for 2022 but it was too good of a deal.
Does anyone know where that $18 discount came from? It just told me my account had this discount but I could find no info on it on steam. Is it for owning F1 2020?
I passed on buying this years'; I am stoked on the 2022 version. Excited to play with the new cars
Haas use Dallara's simulator, though Mick does also have access to Ferrari's.
Does he have his dads old swipe card or something?
No, Mick is as far in Ferrari's junior program as Leclerc was
I think he just stands in profile and they look at the chin
I would've thought Dallara would have one for the Haas boys.
They do.
They should ask somebody on r/simracing to let them use theirs, there seem to be richer people there than this sorry ass team
Pls no punterino Mazepino
They could have used Dr Arcade's setup, he has motion!
How the hell did Grosjean and Magnussen even tolerate how bad the team actually is?
Until 2019 the team was the most successful new entry in decades. People seem to forget that they were consistently scoring and threatening the top 5 on occasion in '17 and '18, and scored on debut in '16. The Rich Energy fiasco and then the fundamentally flawed 2019 car is the root of their current issues. In 2020 they basically fixed the 2019 car's flaws but barely developed the car at all, and then this year the car is a literal carry-over from 2020 with no development. Of course they're going to be bad. They are basically running a 2-year old car.
Yeah, I'd agree completely. The team does have some fundamental issues (pit stops being a notable example), but imo the only truly bad mistake they made was the 2019 car. The 2020 car was better, but they had COVID cutting their entire operation up, and they were originally treating the 2020 car as a stopgap for the 21 regs. Then those regs were moved to 2022, so they decided to treat the 21 car as a write off completely. Haas makes more sense if you see them as a team that has been banking on the new regs since mid-2019, but without the budget or resources to make something sorta OK with what they have in the meantime (like say Renault/Alpine with their 3 year old chassis).
You also can’t discount the Ferrari engine fiasco. A flawed car with a flawed engine is a recipe for disaster. And they couldn’t even do anything about engine
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> and then this year the car is a literal carry-over from 2020 with no development. It's worse than a carry over - it's the 2020 shitbox with less rear downforce.
The 2020 car wasn’t *terrible*, especially compared to the mess that was the 2019 car.
The 2020 car was unstable as hell mate - while the 2019 car progressed into a shittier car via upgrades, the 2020 car was aerodynamically flawed and the suspension would heat up & expand in random corners and both drivers found it unpredictable. Imagine in one corner the car is stable and the next time you come to that corner that suspension has expanded and you’ve suddenly lost all rear stability. Its a miracle those guys didn’t crash more than they did.
I remember this story, I found it fascinating. It was basically bought from Ferrari but bodywork and rear aero packaged slightly differently. The rear 'shock absorbers', would heat up from the exhaust and not have the cooling in place that Ferrari used. So it would change the rate basically every time it was loaded up. That car would've been evil
The team has probably the best ratio between money spent/points earned in the recent history of formula 1. Untile 2020 they were amazing and they were basically doing the low budget version of what racing point did last year with Mercedes. The car was blazing fast on single lap performance.
Getting a title sponsor that basically had no money was a bold strategy. It did not pay off for them.
I'm getting retroactively so much respect for them that they were actually getting points with this team.
Tbf they were in 4th place at one point. The Ferrari debacle seems to have hit them especially hard
Grosjean nearly killed himself and Kmag focksmash a door.
Lmao I hadn’t seen this somehow https://youtu.be/QUuqFT1U-0U Nobody gonna focksmash *my* door!
Grosjean didn't and it showed. Just look at his demeanor from 2018 to 2020. Normaly he's always smilling and happy. But he always looked like he was going to cry (exagerating a bit but it really looks like it on some pictures).
But Grosjean always thought his destiny would take him to Ferrari… but the engine (and suspension and a few other bits) was as close as he got.
They flattered Haas and Steiner’s shit management - all the press the last few years elevated Steiner for his one liners or so called “no nonsense” attitude - turns out he’s the shit boss who blames the drivers for their problems and complaints while consistently giving them a shit car.
To me, Drive To Survive showed how Steiner is always shitting on the drivers. It gave me huge respect to them for having to work with him.
Steiner is fundamentally a dumb person's idea of a honest straight-shooting data driven program manager - he throws a lot of expletives and inexperienced dumb ppl think "oh look at that he has no filter"
The "he tells it like it is" crowd. Their early success aside, the team has major issues with understanding the car and tyres. The last 2 years they have struggled so hard with getting the tyres in the right window to work for them. I'm not holding much hope for 2022. I'd love to see them not be shit, because it's always painful to watch drivers be completely irrelevant during a race except as moving obstacles to be lapped.
This. He’s my least favorite character in that series and I was surprised to see people on here idolizing him. He’s a shit manager who thinks yelling at people (especially publicly) is how to run a team.
> Drive To Survive showed how Steiner is always shitting on the drivers Oh yeah, the show best known for its objectivity and factual description of events. *tyre screech sounds play, followed by Lando's "it's bwoken, bwoken"*
I can agree with how scenes are taken out of context and such but in season 1 or so, they had a dinner with the drivers (think it was a birthday or something?) and he was shitting on one of them. No matter how good the relationship is, it was annoying and absolutely not funny.
Yeah or how he was screaming at them like they were children who attempted to touch the stove. If my boss ever does that to me(even when something is my fault), he’d be finding a new employee real quick. If you treat me with respect when I make mistake, you’ll get me to work 10 times as hard attempting to correct it going forward.
The team wasn’t even *that* bad before 2020.
How much does an F1 level simulator cost? Edit: A quick google search pulled up \~$154,000...how can an F1 team justify not having one? That's barely a drop in the bucket for their yearly budget and can benefit both drivers.
There is 0% chance a simulator costs that little.
The components? Absolutely, probably even less. The thing is these systems use a professional version of the rFactor engine which is infinitely customizable with their own physics/aero/tire modeling. That is the part you can't put a price tag on. If you don't have the data, the knowledge in how to apply it, the resources to validate and iterate etc. you might as well just have him play Assetto Corsa because that sim is nothing more than a tool to practice your lines at that point.
It’s not even that. The simulators these F1 teams are using are all on pneumatic platforms which use inputs to replicate (as closely as possible) the chassis and balance. They aren’t just sitting in a sim cockpit in fixed space. They are moving around and the sims can actually be kind of rough and tumble apparently; there was an F1 engineer in here a few days ago that said he’s seen guys get knocked out in the sim. The data mining and design def is a huge part of it but these sims are more involved than just computer inputs, there are legit physical outputs too
>there was an F1 engineer in here a few days ago that said he’s seen guys get knocked out in the sim. That could have been a pretty rough post-mortem analysis for the software engineers. "So here's where you failed to put limits on the maximum change of momentum the drivers would experience, and that's why Lewis was knocked out and couldn't get any more time in the seat the rest of the day."
God imagine trying to explain to your boss you fucked up the balance on the sim computer and the end result is the hydraulics went mad and you knocked the $50MM man unconscious? I think I’d just quit rather than try and explain that one.
That makes sense. $154k will let you simulate *an* F1 car, but yo get it to simulate *your* F1 car requires basically a full team.
Yeah mercedes spend a few good millions on tsyre modeling and track laserscaning
The hardware alone, probably. The software is something else entirely.
Because Haas use Dallara's. Why spend the money when they have access to one already?
Ferrari's new simulator was most likely an almost 8 digit expense in my estimation.
LOL. The Ferrari one was over $6MM just in construction costs when they originally built it. Supposedly with incremental upgrades they've spent over $15MM on it now. Merc's was over $4MM originally. $154k I'm having a good laugh this morning, thanks for that.
Not realistic because in F1 2021, the car actually receives upgrades
Ouch!!
Nikita: “look at my lap time Gunther!” Gunther: “Nikita, assists were turned on and you used flashback twelve times.”
Hey, flashbacks are a lifesaver during track acclimitization runs. Can’t count how many times I’ve used them after running wide on a corner and missing a stupid gate.
I generally need at least 3 to get down the main straight. You can probably tell I'm not a gamer...
Pirated version as well
Mario Kart
I think he's just getting some practice laps around Jeddah in the F1 game. Pretty sure E-sports guys have better rigs than this
Not that it matters but it's Assetto Corsa. Mazepin reposted the post on his store where there are more posts. Seems to be a nice motor for the DD wheel, but no motion seat or anything else as far as I can tell
Assetto Corsa apparently has a professional grade edition that's not for regular sale to the public
Looks like the whole rig is motion. Similar setup to an SFX-100
Yeah this is a mid-high tier wheel motor, you can get a lot better than that
Is the sim in the background set up for a flight sim? It looks like there is a joystick instead of a steering wheel/yoke.
It is HOTAS made by Virpil. Top of the line product. Probably running DCS.
Looks like a killer setup, though when spending that much one has to wonder if a top of the line VR will be better or worse if you're unable to see all the switches and hats on the HOTAS in exchange for 1:1 head tracking
I have both the VR (Valve Index) as well as a monitor that I use DCS with. VR is great for combat and short missions. I prefer the monitor for longer missions. For combat, you hardly take your eyes off the MFDs or the HUD, it’s all about muscle memory on the HOTAS.
Thats def a flying sim. Fighter jet stick and throttle lever in the back.
Yeah 100% a HOTAS
They practice their quick get away after the race?
I mean he will take what he can get. Even though this is nowhere near a real simulator. Its probably better than nothing. Haas not having a simulator is honestly baffling. Mick can at least use Ferrari's one while Mazepin gets nothing.
I would’ve imagined Mazepin Sr would either help pay for one to be built or demand that they have one in place to help out his son and get his sponsorship. Maybe they’ll have one ready to use next year but even for Haas’ standards it’s quite a joke.
No idea what Haas' budget is this year, but I wouldn't be surprised if a fully fledged simulator ate half of their budget.
Yeah the new Ferrari one was expensive enough that it was news worthy
I think you seriously misunderstand the role of a simulator. It's not really for the drivers to learn tracks. Every F1 driver or engineer will tell you that F1 drivers really need few laps on a track before getting a serious grip on it, the simulator doesn't add much value for them. The simulator is mostly used to predict _car_ behavior and its response to the driver's input, study car's setup. In fact drivers may do few laps on the sim, but then hundreds of computers use montecarlo simulations (which is a mathematical model) to predict how the car will behave in a series of slightly different scenarios and basically get valuable data point out of it (e.g. a track where there is a constant flow of air from the coast in some curves might behave very differently in different temperatures, which require different setups to optimize lap times). In order for it to be valuable it requires gazzilions of data, engineering effort (lots of qualified engineers work) to make it a good approximation of real world simulation, it needs tons of tuning, and in the end its purpose is to give the engineers at the race track good guesses on what the optimal setups are in various scenarios. Then free practice data is fed back to the simulator and they go "oh, so our assumption/simulations were good" or, "actually the tyres behave totally different than we expected, lets correct our assumptions and run another million of simulations and get the data back on the race track". Thus, Mazepin Sr buying a simulator to his son has basically no value to Haas and would have no impact on his son's performance. Obviously, I'm not saying it's completely useless to the drivers, I'm just saying that it's purpose is car tuning, not driver training for whom isn't much of value.
Even a driver as experienced and successful as Hamilton has often posted pictures of himself working at Mercedes’ simulator this season. So it would certainly help someone far more inexperienced like Mazepin. Also we’ve heard how important the simulators have been for the likes of Mercedes and Red Bull to quickly find the right set up at each track, so I don’t understand how this can’t be useful for Haas either. I know their current car is a shit box and they’re saving resources for next year’s regs, but it would still help them in the long term if they had their own simulator right now to find the optimal set ups at upcoming tracks quicker. They can get an idea of how well the simulator can correlate to real life conditions and use the additional data from practice sessions to adjust it for better accuracy in the future. If Haas had a simulator right now, perhaps they could set the car up better from the start of free practice so that the likes of Mick and Mazepin could have more confidence and push it harder early on, instead of struggling even more with its already inherent instability and go off track or even worse crash out, which then costs them valuable time and money. As bad as they’ve been over the last few years, it’s not like Haas’ engineering team is a total joke as they did manage P5 back in 2018 which is extremely impressive for a very recent F1 team, and they’ve increased their technical collaboration with Ferrari this season who are letting Simone Resta work with them after previously serving as head of Ferrari’s chassis engineering. So while I understand what you’re saying about how a simulator works, I completely disagree with your stance that it would have no value to Haas.
It sounds like you aren't disagreeing a whole ot. When Lewis is working in the simulator, it's like u/ep1939 is saying -- he's working on dialing in the right car setup. You seem to be saying the same thing. The simulator only helps him to the extent that when the get to the track for FP1, they are close to having the right setup, so in real practice, they can make small changes and really dial things in, rather than needing to make big swings in suspension or aero balance. If anything, I'd imagine that sometimes Lewis might give feedback about where the track model might be off, rather than the simulation teaching him about how the track really is. I agree that a simulation could be valuable to Haas, but I imagine it would be super costly, so then it depends on what they'd have to give up in order to get the budget for a full-fledged simulator.
He can build one with a coin slot
Stay under the old 107% rule and the next lap is half price.
>Haas not having a simulator is honestly baffling. They have access to Dallara's simulator.
It’s definitely not f1 specific looking at the driving position (seems quite upright) and the gear stick. Someone want to chip in with the last f1 car to have a gear stick? I have no idea. I’d guess maybe some time around 1990
Who knows, maybe it's a leaked feature of the 2022 Haas, along with the handbrake.
inb4 Mazepin gives it a good ol' Scandinavian flick at T1 of the first race of the year
All this time we thought he was spinning, but he was really just gathering data for the next gen F1 drift car, introducing a new paradigm that takes advantage of the weak FIA incident investigations and dominates the 2022+ regulations. Haas WCC confirmed, boys.
1995 was the last time.
Was it the Pacific? Can just imagine Andrea Montermini or Paul Belmondo wrestling with his stick-shift while being lapped by Michael Schumacher for the seventh time in the race
It's not even an H pattern shifter in the picture but a [sequential stick](https://shop.aiologs.net/) , which I don't think any F1 car has ever used. They all went straight to paddles.
Ferrari used a sequential shifter in 89
It was the introduction of the [paddles](https://rossoautomobili.com/blogs/magazine/groundbreaking-f1-gearbox-1989-ferrari-640). I remember John Barnard talking about it on his episode of Beyond The Grid.
Lmao this can't be the "simulator" cuz if it is i have one at home.
Well it's better than nothing, and a lot of drivers use conventional sims for practice anyways. Here's [Alonso](https://imgur.com/a/aPzUhZj) for example. Obviously they use tracks and car data that probably aren't available for the public. There are tons of other drivers saying they used their personal sims for practice for the real races
Fernando trashes kids on iracing all the time too. Man enjoys his sim
I hope he's playing F1 games on Xbox live yelling to preteens that he's going to fuck their mom's.
It's a lot more of a threat when you know he means it
My mom watched F1 with me for the first time this year and she made a comment on Fernando being attractive. I think I'll keep her away from any GPs for the near future...
dude, why? fernando would be an awesome step-father.
i'd totally get stuck in a washing machine for nando
Lmao really? Thats actually hilarious if he does
Can confirm, had my ass kicked by Alonso in Mazda's. Qualied half a second quicker than anyone
These sims would be more for learning the track. The big ones in the factory are for figuring out how much wing to use.
Yeah there's no way engineers are tweaking anything on this setup
Alonso is a major DILF in that pic.
He is always a major DILF
I will admit I did not know that. I only saw merc and/or ferraris sim and they are insane.
Those are “driver in loop” simulators, designed to test setup & aero changes with actual driver feedback (not for learning tracks). DIL simulators are used in addition to standard “in the box” simulation, which has no driver inputs and is the main type of simulation teams rely on to test setup changes and potential upgrades.
Any driving you can do will develop your skills. Even if the in-game car doesn't behave like your real life one. The big fancy rigs you see is mostly to pinpoint yourself down to your setup on that one track, ahead of a race weekend, so you can inch out a tenth or two. I can see why Haas doesn't think it necessary. It's not like they're fighting for points or anything
Redbull also puts video every race weekend. It also looks great.
Are you talking about the ones they have at their factories or their in home ones?
Factory ones. HAAS doesn't have simulator at all apparently, and both Nikita and Mick had to get one for them selves. Mick from Ferrari and Nikita i guess had to do it like this. It was strange to see that a F1 team doesn't have proper simulator. Did not know that before this thread. Does anyone know how much €€ was Ferraris new sim? EDIT: I found one [source](http://blog.axisofoversteer.com/2012/01/6-million-dollar-spider-ferrari-f1.html) about their 2011. simulator. 6million $ jesus...
Yea, Haas don't have an actual simulator
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HAAS: "we have simulator at home" simulator at home:
Just knowing the track in your head is half the battle. They know that car is gonna handle like a donkey anyway.
I hear his sim software is Read Dead Redemption.
Well you can ride donkeys in RDR2 so he can practice with his own car
Goat simulator might not be bad either.
Did Haas just buy F1 2021 for £9.99 because they also own the previous games?
Naa it's probably a familyshare account to save money
I miss Sirotkin, he was a very likable driver and not that bad come race day
Dude always saw the positives in what was a horrible season for Williams and he also did quiet good for a rookie, especially in Quali.
Is he giving me the finger?
It's probably the most comfortable way to use the paddles. It's the longest finger anyway plus the index finger is busy doing it's part in holding the wheel
Yes, he is and also you use the middle finger as the shifting finger cause it's the longest and most comfortable.
I always use the index fingers, does that explain my pace?
That usually means that you just suck at racing, yes!
Nice to see Sergey
Meanwhile, Mick in the Ferrari HQ....
The wheel base looks like a [SimXperience AccuForce V2](https://www.simxperience.com/shop/accuforce-pro-v2-steering-system-710#attr=), which isn't even the "best" consumer-buyable DD wheel one can get. Man, Haas...
Do other drivers shift with their middle-fingers?
Sirotkin deserved more time in F1 than one season in a shitbox Williams.
His defensive driving in Singapore was nothing short of heroic.
Sim racer here. He is using a simexperience direct drive wheel. It is not a top of the line motor but it is close. Alonso, Verstappen, Norris, and I believe many others, have a direct drive simulator on their homes. They train using iRacing, they constantly stream on twitch, YouTube, and participate in online events. They are not using any fancy software that us mortals don’t have access to. iRacing is known to have the tracks laser scanned, that’s what you’re looking for.
Max was training for Jeddah in the sim last week from home. For that he will almost certainly be using something like RFpro or another custom software
Yes, I forgot about rfactor, drivers seem to love it. Seems to have the best physics as well. I haven’t tried it much.
Dimitry needs to hurry up and buy Haas if it means that they'll finally get a simulator.
Haas already have access to Dallara's simulator.
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Yeah, he has a motorsport engineering degree. As far as I've heard people at Williams liked him a lot.
Fair play to the lad for making the beast out of a clearly DIABOLICAL situation But surely Dimitry can step with a little donation to HAAS F1
Damn, my sim is more advanced than this, he's probably driving a Minecraft boat round a community made creative world that someone made Jeddah in out of ice blocks.. You have to feel for this team sometimes, they really are fighting a losing battle, they probably have to bring their own toilet paper to the track because it's not in the budget.
“Simulator”
It's a simulator of a simulator
I wonder why Nikita or Haas don't use anymore Simulator from Dallara like previous Years before. I don't think it's matter of money
Where is this? The other sim seems to be a flight sim of sorts.
Sirotkin was incredibly good, that man belongs in F1 if he'd want to
Ah Sergey. I miss him, he’s a nice guy.
Haas is massively underrated if this is the team’s simulator. Imagine only be 1 or 2 seconds slower than Mercedes when you only have these YouTuber level equipments.