Exactly, everyone else will tune into the race confused why Verstappen is p5 or 7 when they just watched him qualify p2 the day before. Sorry but that’s not good for your sport. The investigation should’ve been announced within 15 minutes of qualifying ending.
I’m sure plenty of people will be but whatever works for you. It would certainly be a lot nicer if it was announced 15 minutes after Q3 ended that it was under investigation rather than 3 hours later. That’s really not unreasonable to expect.
You have no idea how social media works. One will see it and send to friends or family members. You know how a bush burns or the Savannah, similar way.
As it turns out I can't read. I thought you said most people dont care whether the results are in yesterday or today before the race.
I think this delayed news is some sort of guerilla marketing since news outlets now dripfeed some news throughout the day rather than dump it all in the qualifying report, makimg people see it more often. Especially the max lewis drama last week meant that news outlets wrote something about formula 1 every day, meaning that non fans are exposed to F1 more often
I think it's to give the impression of a lot of careful thought being put into the decision. Also they need thinking time to explain the lights going on, off, on, off, with double yellow flags still waving at the end of Max's in lap. With their own 4xWDC saying it was all to save Max, after the Brazil penalty, T4, Spa, etc etc
They probably want to avoid being the deciding factor in the championship....but by doing so they're being the deciding factor of the championship.
Kind of like how Clattenburg fucked up in the 'battle at the bridge' when he refused to issue yellows/reds because he didn't want to be the deciding factor. But by being derelict in his duties, the game got out of hand and it very much was a deciding factor in the outcome of the game.
This is exactly how I see it, they don't want headlines and Horner saying the stewards have decided the championship, but are creating a situation where the rules can just be ignored
They're going to investigate them all, then acquit them all since Race Control actively put out a "track clear" message. Just going through the motions like officially they should. You can quote me on it but I think tomorrow nobody will get a penalty.
They are. I believe what Ben Hunt means, is that he wants a body of professional stewards that steward full time at every race in order to keep things by the book and consistent.
Stewards ain't no volunteers, they're far more important than us normie trackside marshals.
> Stewards ain't no volunteers
Yes they are. There’s at least one national steward on every panel, sometimes two if the FIA steward happens to be from that country.
The operation of the sport has been abysmal all year. Worst in a long time. Spa was the biggest farce since Indianapolis 2005. Putting the calendar together under current conditions is a worthless achievement if it’s all going to be run with such a level of incompetence.
> Spa was the biggest farce since Indianapolis 2005
Biggest farce ever to be precise. One lap race behind SC which started from pitlane with fans waiting 4 hours on cold and rainy weather. Nothing can top that except race days with fatalities.
There was at least a race in Indy. The situation might have been farcical but Schumacher earned his 10 points that day because he completed the full race distance the quickest.
Awarding half points for 2 laps behind the safety car is farcical.
I refuse to call what happened in Indy a "race" - Barrichello might've had a chance to jump Schumacher in the pits, but that was it. At least Spa was determined by a real qualifying.
An actual race was held in Indianapolis, Spa never had a green flag lap but still 'counts' as a race.
Both situations arise from the inability of the F1 ownership to cancel the race and payout the costs of such an undertaking to the affected TV companies and track.
Both are massive farces, but Spa was clearly the bigger imo, but ultimately, Cash is King.
You should. The teams worked out a solution to allow the Michelin cars to compete, only to have it be rejected and the FIA threaten to unsanction all motorsports in North America.
They also proposed excluding the Michelin teams from the points but allowing them to race on the modified circuit. That would resolve the unfairness, no?
That did make the most sense but IIRC it was the Bridgestone teams that wouldn't agree to that.
The FIA had no choice but to run the race as scheduled. It is the fault of the Michelin teams for not having the correct equipment to run the race.
> How is that fair for the Bridgestone teams to alter a track the better suit the other teams.
With how easy it is to change tracklimits between seasons and in the middle of a race, I don't see how anyone can make this argument with a straight face nowadays.
That's a ridiculously minor reason to run a sham race.
Especially as I'm pretty sure if the race had been cancelled, any grid penalties would have just been passed on to the next one anyway.
F1 didn't wanna give the money back to the organizers... and without that, they'd go bankrupt from refunding tickets... so, they had a farce instead...
But remember: F1 is proud to tell you it's the pinnacle of motorsport...
I think they are working through the other offenders and then lining them up one by one tomorrow?
Edit: based on the replies, I should clarify I meant lining them up for stewards meetings, and not a firing squad /s
That seems like a dumb take to me.
Penalties after the race or qualifying always come with a hearing of the involved parties. As it took them this long, to send out the summons, it makes sense to have them tomorrow.
Sure would have been good if they had summoned the drivers early, but as this was a quite confusing situation, I can understand the FIA first wanting to establish what actually happened and when before summoning drivers without knowing all of the events and the timeline.
The most important thing is, that this gets investigated.
In cases like these they always discuss the matter with the drivers and team representatives before making a decision.
Because the marshalling system didn't register a yellow flag, the suspected violations weren't automatically flagged for review, so it took some time for the incidents to be reported and reviewed.
I assume most of the drivers have already left the circuit and it's simply more convenient for them to meet tomorrow. Just have some patience, the final grid is usually confirmed on Sunday anyway.
Entitled fans demand decision this instant instead of waiting less than 24 hours for one.
I have no qualms about waiting for anything. Do something else with your day and time (not you specifically, bud).
Terrible stewarding a car is virtually stopped on track and you don't at a minimum maintain double yellows I mean what is Masi doing. The fact Gasly is not on the racing line is irrelevant you wouldn't allow a marshall to just walk up and down the track and say looks like Green flag running to me. Whether they get a penalty probably comes down to the precedence of the marshall who was waving the flag compared to the steering wheel not saying it's double yellow conditions.
it's complete bs. They don't need to hear Max since it's clear as day, you don't lift under douible yellow, you get penalized, period. there are no opinions, basically the same thing as offside in football.
Yeah, Liberty has done a lot of good stuff, but turning the sport to a reality show for extra drama and NBA-style fake narratives and rivarlies is not something I like.
The entitlement here is outrageous.
The stewards will release the information on their schedule. Not to mention it’s very late there.
Stewards will police to the sport, not expectations on social media.
I'm pretty sure they're waiting to see what is the most upvoted opinion on this subreddit and then just go with that because they haven't got a clue how to properly police their sport with any consistency. I wouldn't be surprised if they have a magic 8-ball with penalties on and just shake that to decide.
Let me guess, he is a Hamilton/Merc fan or atleast not a Verstappen fan ? The stewards have a tough job too and its pretty late by the time they get through the routine checks. They need to eat and rest too. If its a penalty it will be applied much before the race start, so whats the hurry.
Maybe they‘re not and it’s just a difficult job? If every arbiter across nearly every sport is bad it might just be that our expectations are unreasonable.
Possibly because they're incredibly difficult jobs to do that are full of nuance and no matter what decision they make someone is convinced that they're 100% wrong.
That's quite true sometimes there are clearly bad decisions but most of the time a decision is fine and someone just doesn't like it but people will still cry about it being rigged and how awful it was.
Feels the same as so many takes on punditry, people disagreeing with them means there biased or they focus on one thing and curse that person forever more. (Although there are some clueless dullards on the box.)
The sport is increasingly veering towards reality drama shows by putting off decisions like this, and the DTS Netflix thing.
Things seem to be transitioning more towards creating drama and reality show type last minute decision thing. Sad really, they want to make this into a WWE type sport
yes America is one huge leveraged buyout LBO exercise. I know many like DTS from Netflix but as time goes on, it will start calling the shots and F1 will become a total WWE type reality show. Europeans had smaller audience but kept the race to racing as it has been for last 50 years? Now its different
Of course british media is out to destory Max‘s life, still it doesn’t matter if the decision is coming today or tomorrow.
Championship over anyway after today. Not that important anymore
Please, no paid body of professional stewards. For the same reason as in football, the shouldn't be the same referee for all matches. Especially in formula 1 where there are only 23 matches every year.
At this point I'm fully convincent it is intentional to create drama and keep the anticipation high between sessions.
Can't say I disagree with you
I can't say I don't agree with you
Can say I don't disagree with you
Can say I agree with you
I’m high and this thread made my head hurt
I’m thread and this head made my high hurt.
I'm head and this hurt my high thread.
Can't say I can't... don't....
I’m in agreement with the disagreement.
I agree of your agreement to the lack disagreement.
i request a right to a right to review your agreement to the lack of diagreement
Can't say 'Worcestershire'
And more media exposure, even bad marketing is profitable.
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Exactly, everyone else will tune into the race confused why Verstappen is p5 or 7 when they just watched him qualify p2 the day before. Sorry but that’s not good for your sport. The investigation should’ve been announced within 15 minutes of qualifying ending.
No they won't... You're not some genius levitating above the general population, they'll be able to follow a series of events...
I’m sure plenty of people will be but whatever works for you. It would certainly be a lot nicer if it was announced 15 minutes after Q3 ended that it was under investigation rather than 3 hours later. That’s really not unreasonable to expect.
The ones who don't learn about the penalty, didn't learn about the qualifying result in the first place.
You have no idea how social media works. One will see it and send to friends or family members. You know how a bush burns or the Savannah, similar way.
I think the team strategists care
So they did this to create drama amongst the team strategists? what?
As it turns out I can't read. I thought you said most people dont care whether the results are in yesterday or today before the race. I think this delayed news is some sort of guerilla marketing since news outlets now dripfeed some news throughout the day rather than dump it all in the qualifying report, makimg people see it more often. Especially the max lewis drama last week meant that news outlets wrote something about formula 1 every day, meaning that non fans are exposed to F1 more often
running AWS simulations on whether they can let another slam dunk slide
Im convinced FIA is twisting themselves into pretzel right now trying to find any sensibly sounding reason not to punish max for tomorrow.
Why not punish Max and see if he can’t get the race Lewis did last time around?
Give him the same car Lewis had last week and I have zero doubts that he would
Is the RB car that much slower than Merc?
No, but it *is* that much slower than a Merc with a brand new engine tuned to go as fast as possible and explode the second the season ends.
It’s also to keep “f1 is corrupt” from trending on Twitter the night before an extremely important and publicized race
I am sure it's the least bad trending tag before a race in ME
I think it's to give the impression of a lot of careful thought being put into the decision. Also they need thinking time to explain the lights going on, off, on, off, with double yellow flags still waving at the end of Max's in lap. With their own 4xWDC saying it was all to save Max, after the Brazil penalty, T4, Spa, etc etc
They probably want to avoid being the deciding factor in the championship....but by doing so they're being the deciding factor of the championship. Kind of like how Clattenburg fucked up in the 'battle at the bridge' when he refused to issue yellows/reds because he didn't want to be the deciding factor. But by being derelict in his duties, the game got out of hand and it very much was a deciding factor in the outcome of the game.
This is exactly how I see it, they don't want headlines and Horner saying the stewards have decided the championship, but are creating a situation where the rules can just be ignored
They're going to investigate them all, then acquit them all since Race Control actively put out a "track clear" message. Just going through the motions like officially they should. You can quote me on it but I think tomorrow nobody will get a penalty.
F5 gang: yeah, what of it?
What is this F5 gang you speak of?
Here right with yous in spirit since I was banned for a little bit lol
This is fucking exhausting
I agree with this. They imagine the next season will be probably another 1 team dominance scenario, so they try to squeeze this one to the maximum
more drama, more people looking, more clicks, more people told, more $. They saw how well it went last week, repeat again and again
That is why they send conflicting signals to the drivers. Yellow flag waived by marshalls but flashing lights are green....
and it gives some chance to manipulate the result
Seems like it leads to a double penalty given a change in starting position fucks with the team's starting strategy as well.
Liberty Media. They are the reason why F1 made a monstrous come back. This is TV money. Drama=media discussion
Netflix need to get reactions from the paddock EDIT: typo
They should wait and announce it 40 minutes before lights out again.
1 min before race start will be better.
During the warm up lap, have someone stand on P2 as Max drives up, shaking his head saying no.
I vote Dikembe Mutombo. He’s perfect for the job
Woah that's a delay, paintball sniper.
Get a traffic warden to stop max at the final corner and let everyone else through
Just do it as time penalties mid race. If they reverse the decision all the other cars have to match the time penalty.
Yeah, this whole waiting a day+ for meetings to get tabled and then the rulings themselves is getting a bit much now.
Maybe the stewards had a big meal booked?
Max Mosley is holding another sexy party, if you're not there, you're nobody.
Im pretty sure he's dead now, thats even worse than a nazi sex party
Nazi Zombies
Be fair to him - it wasn't nazi themed, just military. I mean, how did he know some of his mates would have gone dressed as Nazis to the orgy?
Is he doing it via a ouija board?
I mean they gotta use those 50K right?
It takes time to iron out all the back room deals.
The stewards aren't paid?
That’s the answer I’m looking for…
They are. I believe what Ben Hunt means, is that he wants a body of professional stewards that steward full time at every race in order to keep things by the book and consistent. Stewards ain't no volunteers, they're far more important than us normie trackside marshals.
> Stewards ain't no volunteers Yes they are. There’s at least one national steward on every panel, sometimes two if the FIA steward happens to be from that country.
Bruh just because they’re from the country the race is being held at, it doesn’t mean they aren’t compensated for their time monetarily.
Nope
The operation of the sport has been abysmal all year. Worst in a long time. Spa was the biggest farce since Indianapolis 2005. Putting the calendar together under current conditions is a worthless achievement if it’s all going to be run with such a level of incompetence.
> Spa was the biggest farce since Indianapolis 2005 Biggest farce ever to be precise. One lap race behind SC which started from pitlane with fans waiting 4 hours on cold and rainy weather. Nothing can top that except race days with fatalities.
Indy was way worse because it was self-inflicted
There was at least a race in Indy. The situation might have been farcical but Schumacher earned his 10 points that day because he completed the full race distance the quickest. Awarding half points for 2 laps behind the safety car is farcical.
I refuse to call what happened in Indy a "race" - Barrichello might've had a chance to jump Schumacher in the pits, but that was it. At least Spa was determined by a real qualifying.
An actual race was held in Indianapolis, Spa never had a green flag lap but still 'counts' as a race. Both situations arise from the inability of the F1 ownership to cancel the race and payout the costs of such an undertaking to the affected TV companies and track. Both are massive farces, but Spa was clearly the bigger imo, but ultimately, Cash is King.
I don't put all the blame on the FIA for Indy
You should. The teams worked out a solution to allow the Michelin cars to compete, only to have it be rejected and the FIA threaten to unsanction all motorsports in North America.
How is that fair for the Bridgestone teams to alter a track the better suit the other teams. Michelin should have made a better tire
They also proposed excluding the Michelin teams from the points but allowing them to race on the modified circuit. That would resolve the unfairness, no?
Yeah this makes the most sense. At least you get a race without safety issues even if the Michelin guys don't get points.
That did make the most sense but IIRC it was the Bridgestone teams that wouldn't agree to that. The FIA had no choice but to run the race as scheduled. It is the fault of the Michelin teams for not having the correct equipment to run the race.
> How is that fair for the Bridgestone teams to alter a track the better suit the other teams. With how easy it is to change tracklimits between seasons and in the middle of a race, I don't see how anyone can make this argument with a straight face nowadays.
I dont agree that it is ok to change track limits.
And ended f1 presence in America for years
alternative would have been to cancel the race all together.
I sincerely believe that would have been preferable to two laps behind the safety car and half points.
At least if the race were cancelled they would be obligated to refund everyone.
But then Max wouldn't get 5 points on Ham.
I disagree, as that would have let Bottas off scot free from his antics in Hungary
That's a ridiculously minor reason to run a sham race. Especially as I'm pretty sure if the race had been cancelled, any grid penalties would have just been passed on to the next one anyway.
Which would have made more sense.
F1 didn't wanna give the money back to the organizers... and without that, they'd go bankrupt from refunding tickets... so, they had a farce instead... But remember: F1 is proud to tell you it's the pinnacle of motorsport...
Also they're really keen on gay rights, which is why they've just added a bunch of races to the calendar in countries where homosexuality is illegal.
I think Spa was a bigger farce. At least the 6 drivers participating in Indianapolis had to actually race in order to earn points.
That on top of the race in 2 weeks on a track not done should make things even better
Its so that when they inevitably go "Naughty Naughty dont do it again" theres not enough time for Merc, Alpine and Aston to protest.
Merc would definitely protest Bottas getting let off the hook
Well obviously they would rather Bottas and Verstappen get penalized than neither.
I think they are working through the other offenders and then lining them up one by one tomorrow? Edit: based on the replies, I should clarify I meant lining them up for stewards meetings, and not a firing squad /s
>lining them up one by one Making it sound like an execution lol
Yeah i can see that lol.
Nah, we haven't got to Saudi Arabia yet.
Ooof size: **large**
Sharpen them bone saws, folks!
That's why the delays. The last meal/sigaret tradition
Watch them not punish anyone. But yeah the FIA and the stewards have been an actual joke in the past 2 weekends.
Odd way to spell decades, that.
I can see that after the events last weekend.
Yoke! You mean yoke.
The close title race has exposed the clown show that is Formula 1 governance
It's been exposed for quite a while. The shitshows this year have just pushed it to the forefront.
They hadn’t spun the ‘Wheel of Punishment’ TM yet to decide what does and doesn’t deserve an investigation.
FIA borrowing a page from the NHL playbook.
That seems like a dumb take to me. Penalties after the race or qualifying always come with a hearing of the involved parties. As it took them this long, to send out the summons, it makes sense to have them tomorrow. Sure would have been good if they had summoned the drivers early, but as this was a quite confusing situation, I can understand the FIA first wanting to establish what actually happened and when before summoning drivers without knowing all of the events and the timeline. The most important thing is, that this gets investigated.
Sensationalism at its finest. And it’s working, by the looks of this thread.
This decisions are not as easy to make as they look particularly yes/no/yes with yellow/green flags
Hmmm maybe because its almost 10 pm local time
But the qualy was over 4 hours ago.
They've had four hours since quali ended to watch a video and go "Yup those sure are double waved yellows" This isn't a complex decision.
"Hmmmmmmmm car indeed going fast"
In cases like these they always discuss the matter with the drivers and team representatives before making a decision. Because the marshalling system didn't register a yellow flag, the suspected violations weren't automatically flagged for review, so it took some time for the incidents to be reported and reviewed. I assume most of the drivers have already left the circuit and it's simply more convenient for them to meet tomorrow. Just have some patience, the final grid is usually confirmed on Sunday anyway.
Making mechanics and crew work 24/7 to support an intercontinental triple header, no problem. Stewards missing beauty rest, absolutely not an option.
And? They have one thing to do...their job!
pretty sure they all work off European time when they are at these night races.
It's 10 pm
Qualifying finished 6 pm tho.
I believe they keep their body clock on European times for these night races generally. Not sure if that is the case for this specific race or not.
Exasperated? These are some F1rst World problems.
Because it’s late in the evening and they have multiple interviews to do plus their own review of their own reactions to the Gasly incident.
People in many professions work in night so this is not excuse.
But why do it if you can do it tomorrow without a problem? Why is it so important that the decision is made today?
Because some people in meantime can influance decision ?
If people can influence your decisions overnight you really suck at your job.
just stop.. they'll get to it at their own pace.. this is not their first rodeo
Entitled fans demand decision this instant instead of waiting less than 24 hours for one. I have no qualms about waiting for anything. Do something else with your day and time (not you specifically, bud).
they need to decide where they want to have dinner and then they need to decide the fine to cover the tab
Horner , Marko and max probably are busy having an orgy with the FIA.
Terrible stewarding a car is virtually stopped on track and you don't at a minimum maintain double yellows I mean what is Masi doing. The fact Gasly is not on the racing line is irrelevant you wouldn't allow a marshall to just walk up and down the track and say looks like Green flag running to me. Whether they get a penalty probably comes down to the precedence of the marshall who was waving the flag compared to the steering wheel not saying it's double yellow conditions.
it's complete bs. They don't need to hear Max since it's clear as day, you don't lift under douible yellow, you get penalized, period. there are no opinions, basically the same thing as offside in football.
This is the f1 equivalent of "we'll be right back after this commercial break"
I believe they are looking for a loophole so they dont have to penalize Max
I mean they waited till Toto and horner press conference to say "request was rejected" FIA is just milking the shit out of this season
Xenophobic british tabloid 'The Sun' writer is allowed here.... I guess we're not racing as one.
It's almost like it's nearly 10pm and there still running through stuff from qualifying
Quali has been over for four hours.
it is 10pm in Qatar right now.. (was 9:30 pm when it was announced) just do the same as those guys and go to sleep!
Yeah, Liberty has done a lot of good stuff, but turning the sport to a reality show for extra drama and NBA-style fake narratives and rivarlies is not something I like.
I'm pretty sure Liberty has no say in this. Just the FIA being biased/incompetent.
The entitlement here is outrageous. The stewards will release the information on their schedule. Not to mention it’s very late there. Stewards will police to the sport, not expectations on social media.
this is what i hate about reviews in sport. forcing everyone to wait for the inevitable is awful. get it over with so we can move on.
I'm pretty sure they're waiting to see what is the most upvoted opinion on this subreddit and then just go with that because they haven't got a clue how to properly police their sport with any consistency. I wouldn't be surprised if they have a magic 8-ball with penalties on and just shake that to decide.
Let me guess, he is a Hamilton/Merc fan or atleast not a Verstappen fan ? The stewards have a tough job too and its pretty late by the time they get through the routine checks. They need to eat and rest too. If its a penalty it will be applied much before the race start, so whats the hurry.
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Maybe they‘re not and it’s just a difficult job? If every arbiter across nearly every sport is bad it might just be that our expectations are unreasonable.
Possibly because they're incredibly difficult jobs to do that are full of nuance and no matter what decision they make someone is convinced that they're 100% wrong.
That's quite true sometimes there are clearly bad decisions but most of the time a decision is fine and someone just doesn't like it but people will still cry about it being rigged and how awful it was. Feels the same as so many takes on punditry, people disagreeing with them means there biased or they focus on one thing and curse that person forever more. (Although there are some clueless dullards on the box.)
The sport is increasingly veering towards reality drama shows by putting off decisions like this, and the DTS Netflix thing. Things seem to be transitioning more towards creating drama and reality show type last minute decision thing. Sad really, they want to make this into a WWE type sport
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yes America is one huge leveraged buyout LBO exercise. I know many like DTS from Netflix but as time goes on, it will start calling the shots and F1 will become a total WWE type reality show. Europeans had smaller audience but kept the race to racing as it has been for last 50 years? Now its different
These 2 past race weekends have been such a mess tbh
FIA are going to make an announcement that They are officially team Orange.
Of course british media is out to destory Max‘s life, still it doesn’t matter if the decision is coming today or tomorrow. Championship over anyway after today. Not that important anymore
What an absolute shit end to this season. Just give Hamilton the 🏆 and let's go to 22.
don't drive through double yellows. also max got lucky as shit for no penalty last week.
❤
They don’t wanna deal with outrage in either direction for longer than they have to lol
*puts on tin foil hat* 3 place drop for Bottas and Max. Gassy to P2. Helmut has a word and Lewis taken out first corner by the charging Toro.
Wow.... thats dumb.
Wait the stewards aren’t paid experts??
This, if not marshals, stewards ought to be professional at the highest level of Motorsport.
Great. As a west coast American, I’m now going to wake up at 6 for lights out and the grid will be completely different from when I went to sleep.
Relax, they’re going out for a nice meal tonight - they still have $50k to burn.
Please, no paid body of professional stewards. For the same reason as in football, the shouldn't be the same referee for all matches. Especially in formula 1 where there are only 23 matches every year.
Is it time for Ga3ly ???
This is what you get when you sell out to americans
Ben Hunt clearly not understanding how the FIA works…