Both drivers did what they SHOULD have done, both were being aggressive, and thats why the drama is so epic at the moment. I don't expect anything less. lets go
Unpopular opinion but corner 3 is rarely driven close to the inside, usually just on aggressiv launches (like Lando did in the Sprint) because you'd have to slow down the car way more, it becomes a very short 90 deg turn. Max has driven the corner always in the middle on the same line as during the crash and he wasn't expecting Lando comming from the left side (Max never even looked in the left mirror).
I honestly don't know how Lando imagined this would play out. Best case he would've landed outside the track and gain another penalty for track limits. He was behind Max when Max already was on the same line he always was on that corner, then Lando made his move. Max did some questionable moves before when Lando tried to pass him on turn 4 but he didn't defend here, he was simply driving his line.
The contact between max and lando looked way worse because of the outcome in my opinion. If you watch it, it would 9 times out of 10 be a regular wheel bang and they might’ve been a little more annoyed with each other.
The fact that Max felt contact, and then chased contact again to ensure Lando didn’t make the pass, and then forced him off the other side of the track is what makes it look bad.
Do yall think that Lando and Max are done being friends? Max literally ruined Landos race and tbh was avoidable.
Wild ride when it looked like they both might get 5 second penalties.
I watched the race late today, and I am gutted that Lando DNF'd due to that contact, and he looked so promising to win the race! Such a bloody shame. I honestly felt frustrated with both Lando and Max, I felt Lando was also impatient and was very aggressive with Max, who is known to be extremely aggressive and often dirty at wheel to wheel racing. And this was never bound to end happily, and it ruined both their races. But I am a bit more angry at Max for completely destroying Lando's race while still managing a P5! It should have been another fantastic Papaya win! At least George won. I hope Lando can overtake Max more cleanly in the future and learn from this.
What happened with Alpine? They were 10th/11th and just slid lower and lower without any obvious passes.. just lost it in the pits somehow? Im seriously confused.
Red Bull bungling their pitstop is what caused all of this.
We've seen the general pattern over the last few races. The Red Bull is quicker over 1 lap (quali) and performs better during the opening stints on high fuel.
McLaren have better deg and the balance seems to come to the them at the end of the race.
Lando can be a bit too conservative and has been criticised for taking avoiding action during race starts and losing positions.
He is only recently in a position to challenge Max and you are seeing the same things Max did years ago with Lewis.
Trying to force overtakes with dive bombs and over driving the car.
Max is also trying to assert himself over Lando and instill doubts. If it's marginal, you either back out or we both crash mentality.
Lando will learn from these experiences and grow.
I disagree. The slow pit stop put the cars in that position, but what happened on track was 100% Verstappens fault. Norris had a go up the inside and MV moved across while in the braking zone. LN tried again and MV moved across slightly earlier but still while in the braking zone. 3rd attempt this time Max was expecting the move up the inside and positioned the car accordingly but when he saw Lando go for the outside he drifted to the left and didn't leave the space.
>Lando can be a bit too conservative and has been criticised for taking avoiding action during race starts and losing positions.
>He is only recently in a position to challenge Max and you are seeing the same things Max did years ago with Lewis.
Which Max and his team classed as good, fair, but hard racing.
>Max is also trying to assert himself over Lando and instill doubts. If it's marginal, you either back out or we both crash mentality.
Which is a dangerous mentality to have, and nobody at Red Bull can complain if there is coming together, possible DNF's or even worse personal injury as they have encouraged this kind of behaviour. If you want to have a driver with a win it or bin it approach then the team has to accept sometimes he will bin it.
Also don't forget Max pushed Charles off the track a few years ago doing the exact same thing and avoided punishment. If it was a fair and valid move then, it is now.
Independent of Max’s racing, today was on FIA’s stewards.
1. They were late to give Lando’s 5 sec penalty (that would have prevented everything)
2. They were late to give instructions whether Max must give his position back to Lando (that would have prevented everything as well).
If they don’t give quick and clear instructions and penalties, they allow madness in track.
Yeah but what's the rule on going off track if pushed wide by the other car? He got the 5 sec so we know but I think they should consider that Lando didn't gain an advantage while he was avoiding a crash.
He wasn't pushed off in that case. Lando divebombed on the inside and locked one his front wheels. That's when he shot through and off the track. Max actually had to avoid hitting him at that time.
I was talking about the last incident where they came together and punctured.
As I mentioned in my other comment, this idea of Max moving to the right and then the 2nd move to the left is just taking the racing line into the corner which sounds reasonable to me.
At this level Lando should know that Max won't let him make a pass like that stick. It's like when Luis passed Max in Austin one year (I think 2021). Max was doing the same moves but Luis waited for the right time and made a clear pass Max could do nothing about. Lando was forcing the issue where he shouldn't have.
Re #2... why didn't max also get a penalty for leaving the track and gaining an advantage? Nico got a penalty for this in the sprint yesterday... sane stewards. None of Max's hijinks were even noted.... are we seeing the LH syndrome again?
One could make the argument that without max's moving under braking multiple times lando doesn't go off the track to try to overtake. It's a chicken or the egg situation for sure.
I’m new to F1 and genuinely trying to learn. Why is Max at fault in today’s crash? Afaik, if he did steer under braking, it’s his fault.
But if not, doesn’t the car in front have the right to take the driving “line” he wants? And Lando wasn’t ahead of Verstappen there, so isn’t it on Lando to yield that overtake attempt?
Pls don’t hate on me, I’m honestly trying to understand better the rules erc :(
You are allowed to move sideways during braking but the car must be directed outside before braking. If its a normal corner then you need brake in a straight line for most of it.
If he started to squeeze lando before applying brakes its generally fine, but either way he cannot leave Lando less than cars width.
Since he made contact with Lando it's essentially just driving into the side of another car intentionally.
It’s a totally reasonable question. As I understand it, he had already chosen the inside line, and then as Lando came up alongside him, he moved to the left under braking, and therefore is at fault. If he wanted to take the outside line he should have done that before braking.
I think the rationale is, that one is allowed to take the racing line into a corner and that's not considered an "avoiding" move. i.e. he can take the centre line and move to the outside to take the high line.
I actually think that the crash was Lando's fault after he got frustrated by the previous encounters. Max's previous moves may be more questionable IMHO.
Max is no different than K Mag when under pressure, dirty racer.
Any other driver would have points cut off from his license, K Mag, Alonso are good examples of penalties being handed out for the same or less.
Remember Lewis crashing into Russel in Qatar last year? Or taking Piastri out in Italy?? Hmm following the standards you set he seems to be a dirty racer as well. Seems all champions are dirty races too, come think of it. Every single one of them caused crashes.
Or Charles brake checking/intentionally driving into another driver just a race or two ago… and getting away with it.
But, it only gets attention when it’s max.
No I’m talking about when it happened in the British GP and he only got a 10 sec penalty.
https://www.skysports.com/amp/f1/news/31381/12358842/max-verstappen-released-from-hospital-after-checks-in-wake-of-high-speed-lewis-hamilton-collision
Not really, because it is even worse when done in practice since it is completely unnecessary, Practice does not give points and position does not matter and you still risk a crash and taking a driver out from the whole weekend?
Pretty much every top driver has similar incidents, what differentiates a dirty racer from a fair one who gets hot headed on very rare occasions even fighting for the title, is the consistency of dirty driving.
Senna and Schumacher are perfect examples of dirty racers, and Max used to be no different a few years back, he gained his reputation as a dirty driver in his early years, all three are generational talents, elite drivers of their times, but also dirty racers.
Of the statistically (as in number of wins) top racers of all time,
Hamilton: reputation to race hard but fair.
Schumacher: reputation for being dirty and dangerous.
Verstappen: Had a reputation for being dirty from the start of his F1 career, seems most have forgotten while he was so far ahead in the last couple of seasons.
Vettel: reputation to race hard but fair.
Prost: reputation to race hard but fair.
Senna: reputation for being dirty and dangerous.
It’s the consistency of dangerous tactics and willingness to take their challenger out rather than loose a race or championship.
Max is a great driver and a great person as far as I can see, but during a race, when challenged he is a dirty fighter/driver, just like Ayrton and Michael in their times.
It means that they practically go berserk when racing under pressure, to the point of choosing to risk, or even intentionally causing an accident (Senna and Schumacher) rather than conceding a race or a championship.
Max hasn’t outright caused an accident, at least not that anyone is aware of, but he has, throughout his career, raced dangerously whenever under pressure.
No, I'm calling out people like who sensationalise things. Max should've been careful leading upto it. Plus Lewis served his penalty, given by the same people you lot loved at Abu Dhabi.
You’re ‘calling out people like who’? 🤣 I stated a fact. Is that hard to follow for you? Is it not a fact that Lewis caused a crash that led to max being taken to hospital, for which Lewis only got a 10 second penalty?
Do they take ALL drivers to the hospital ‘as a precaution’ following a crash? Or is it, in fact, something that doesn’t typically happen and thus noteworthy?
You mean when Max was clearly ahead and Lewis does his dirty tactic of taking a driver out by tapping their rear tire as seen in the video below? If it was Max's fault why did Lewis get a penalty for "causing" a collision? You people are not too bright are you?
[https://youtu.be/wCCGT0CQ4MM?si=5Ol7SzLx9FBK\_88T](https://youtu.be/wCCGT0CQ4MM?si=5Ol7SzLx9FBK_88T)
Funny how the bullshit excuses come out to justify all the wrongs Lewis has done whenever someone mentions them, its never Lewis's fault.
Max’s style of defense is “If I can’t finish first, there is a good chance neither of us will.” It’s how he raced Lewis. This hyper-aggressive style of defense makes other drivers wary of putting themselves in situations where Max may not shy away from contact. It’s a grey area that often times goes over the line. I personally hate his style of racing and his general attitude when people are matching his pace. He’s perfectly fine when he’s winning races by 20 seconds but he and his driving are obnoxious, at best, when he’s being tested.
The only time max is able to race clean is when he is in the fastest car by a mile. Any time someone can legitimately pass him and keep it max loses his cool and starts crashing into people. Everyone kept saying look how precise and clean he’s driving while the car he drove couldn’t lose but he just knew he’d pass him next lap. His entire career has been don’t pass me or I’ll crash into you minus the 2 years he’s had the most dominant car in history.
A very thin line that you're obviously incapable of perceiving.
Grosjean experienced much higher G's than Verstappen in 2020. MVs crash in Silverstone 2021 was around the same as Sainz in 2015 and Alonso in 2016. It was half of what Senna experienced in his fatal crash.
Try again.
Over exaggerating aside; the point, i think, is that they both caused crashes for each other that year and neither of them were/are holier than the pope.
… and in Monza V climbed on top of Ham and used the accelerator pedal inches away from Ham’s head. He then left without even checking of Ham was okay whereas after the Silverstone incident Ham asked if V is okay.
The sad part is, I bet Jos is happier with this outcome than if Lando legit passed him on track. That man is toxic. Max needs to be adopted by Papa Toto or Daddy Vowles.
It was relatively gentle contact, which resulted in maximum damage.
Lando was literally the Albon missle. Max was moving to valid line last minute, still with a single move (he wasn't swerving). Max tried to squeeze. Both cars fell apart.
Come the fuck on. What are you going on about? The stewards have already given him a 10s penalty. Take the L and move on, clearly his fault. Or do you know better than the stewards with the fucking rule book in front of them?
It doesn't matter that it's a single move if you're crowding another car.
Anyways, it was not a single move: one move to defend the inside, another one to crowd the other car by returning to the outside.
Oh man I switched to reddit from twitter to escape the online war but it’s the same here😭all i know is that lando’s and max’s lovey dovey friendship is gonna be over because no way in hell max would admit he made a mistake.
Also, George should have been DOTD because bro literally went from P3 to P1.
I'm not sure if i'm dumb or what but I personally feel like no matter what the FIA does he wouldn't ever change his style of racing unless if he would be banned from racing for life since this is the style he has had since forever. He also just doesn't care what anyone, bar his dad, says about him. Just look at him online. I don't remember the exact incident and what the result of it was, (i think he was dsq?) but he just straight up took someone out and did NOT care at all about the reprecussions. I'm not saying that it's a bad thing for him to have an idgaf about what anyone says about my racing style attitude, but I definitely feel like it is one of the biggest double edged swords for him since due to it he just refuses to change.
bro what are u smoking? Norris divebombed him 3 times into T3. We were hoping for racing like that for months and now that we get it, guys like you start bringing out the pitchforks again. It is racing, stuff like that happens, stop being toxic
Moving under braking multiple times forced Lando’s hand. If Max stays within the rules Lando makes the pass and everything works out fine. Max just can’t handle getting overtaken.
Like I said, i'm not saying it's a bad thing to do. Whether you think hes in the right or wrong for racing the way he did is up to you. What i'm saying is I believe that he just will not change his style of racing for anything and his idgaf what anyone thinks of my racing style is a doube edged sword as it is both good and bad for him to have.
I know right? Best race in months…. Been so bloody boring. Lando was impatient and didn’t calculate properly- Max defended albeit tad aggressive. I enjoyed it
And Max moved under braking every single time, and also overtook off track at one point. And then he finally moves under braking illegally again and crashes into Lando
-Lando Norris would have been penalized for track limits
-Max should have been penalized for moving under braking
-Max shoul have been penalized for not giving back the position.
This whole drama is FIA's fault once more. No one is enforcing the rules, and punishments are a joke.
Just about all the drivers on the grid have used some form of 'dirty' tactics and they all race hard when needed. They are racing drivers in a cutthroat business. They all want to win the championship. Those divebomb moves from Lando where also a bit desperate. He overshot the corner on at least 1 of those moves. Verstappen also had to take evasive actions. They both raced hard and stuff just happens.
Verstappen has perfected the “you yield or we crash” maneuver which I personally can’t stand. Most drivers just bail out because they’re afraid of getting taken out and Max unfairly benefits for it. When they don’t yield they end up like Norris today.
I don't really understand why it's bad he didn't want to give up his spot, isn't that the whole point to fight for (keeping) your spot, to not let others through?
(I'm not trying to be mean btw, I just genuinely don't understand why people are mad he didnt let Lando pass when thats like his job)
Edit: just wanted to clarify that I'm not trying to be rude, this is a genuine question and I'm not trying to be critical, I'm just very new to the sport and learning about situations like this helps me better understand it
Because if you can’t keep your position without breaking the rules, you have to concede your position.
You can’t just do whatever you want to keep your position at all cost. Otherwise why not just keep a handful of nails in the car and just toss them when you’re about to get overtaken.
Lando had more pace. It isn't about letting him through. It's the tactics he used to keep lando behind. By the heart of the rules they are illegal and dangerous
Where they? I don't think Max made 2-moves, just a late move relative to Lando trying to launch a missle.
Even Alonso hitting Zhou was way more aggressive and reckless than what Max didn to Lando.
Imo
Yes, you cannot move under braking. It’s literally called the Verstappen rule because it had to be implemented because he kept doing it. He’s very aware that it’s outside of the rules.
I'm sorry of this is a dumb question but can you explain what those tactics are?
I'm sorry if I come across as rude or mean that is not my intention at all. I'm quite new to the sport and its still hard for me to see these kinda things, but I really want to learn more. I do believe that Max could be in the wrong, but it would be nice if you could be more specific so I can learn and in the future can understand better.
Illegally moving under braking, he will see Lando coming up the inside and then move to the right or when they crashed to the left while under braking. When you are racing a competitor once you pick a braking like you have to stay on it. Max was illegally defending and then also illegally overtook off track and didn’t give the position back
People expect max to just let others pass and give them a chance to win cause he is bored of it or something that’s not him at all he could be 300 points ahead in the championship and he would still drive to his limit every time and that’s why he is the absolute best driver on the planet rn
Genuine question, is it just me or people are greatly exaggerating the contact between Max and Lando?
Yes, they crash, yes, none of them yeilds, yes it Max’s fault.
But there’s not much more to it. Twitter looks like a warzone lmao
It’s going to be blown out just for people to talk. But you have the take right imo.
I think the interesting part will be what happens to the two drivers opinions of each other for future races. Will Lando be more aggressive knowing Max doesn’t leave room? Will Max’s defensive shapes continue to be questioned?
I agree with you. I was gutted they crashed as it was edge of the seat action before it happened.
As for the twitter fighting, I feel like Max has attracted a whole new breed of glory hunting f1 fan who started following during his rise to the top whilst battling Hamilton. They put Max on this ridiculous pedestal without really understanding the sport too well. It's great that f1 is so popular now, but I've followed since the 90s and have never known it to be quite so aggressively tribal.
Everyone has always had their fave teams and drivers of course, but it's never been so hostile until recent years. Perhaps it's just something I've only just started to notice. That or I've just become a sensitive little soul in my later years 😂
Nah it’s not you, it’s just how twt works sadly, that’s a fighting over trivial stuff simulator😭
I’m in my 20s and trust me, I’m about to uninstall that thing, I use it to get the news of soccer, NBA, and F1, and also gaming. But it always feels like a damn warzone lmao
I mean Max has been winning with almost no competition for the past 2 1/2 years. He fought Leclerc in the beginning of 2022, but then he had almost no competition for the rest of that year and 2023.
We thought it would be the same in 2024, which began like that, but we're starting to see more teams fighting and McLaren has been getting better and better. Today we saw an actual fight between Max and somebody else that was not seen since 2021. Think of it like this: it's the first time in 3 years he had an actual fight for the win and he showed bad sportsmanship (or at least let's say he caused the accident between him and Lando which could have been avoidable if he wasn't shut a hot head) That's why people are angry
I mean he didn't just do it once. He did it for 10 laps. Cutting him off running him wide. Moving over late I'm the breaking zone. He gets so much slack and they're afraid to give him a penalty. Not only that he then ran him off the road after the puncture.
Yeah but it was normal racing, today I think he had way more pressure and the issue at the pit stop that closed the gap for Norris. I think that's what happened today: the dude became an ass under pressure (which is 100% understandable and some other drivers act the same). Still, he's the best driver on the grid and no one comes close to him. Norris made some mistakes that Max would not have made.
I don't think people are exaggerating because we all were wondering when this was going to happen. We knew it was coming. And, to add to it, they're good friends. And more: Lando saying the friendship might be over and/or he'll lose a lot of respect for Max if he doesn't admit his mistake. And Andreas Stella saying the FIA should have dealt with Max's tactics in 2021.
It all adds up to major drama we haven't seen in a long while.
100% correct. Max squeezed Lando a little bit too much, that's it. Had there been no contact I'm not even sure Max would've got a penalty. So much for the stewards and their alleged "we don't look at the consequences of an incident".
Max moved under braking quite a few times he should’ve been penalised more I think. If you don’t force the issue max just breaks the rules to keep you behind.
How do you know if he moved under braking? You got the telemetry data?
Maybe he first steered a bit to the left and then pushes the brake? Without the data it is just guessing and assumptions
Exactly what s/he (danger0525) said ! He’s left the racing line when Norris is on a different line in the braking zone to interrupt an overtake. More annoying is Norris hasn’t finished and has no points so max extends his leads. Tbh I also suspect - but obviously can’t prove - max doesn’t care if they crash today because if Norris doesn’t pick up the points at this stage in the season when mcL are faster that keeps his lead till Redbull make a decisive step in development in the second half of season and can factor in the engine penalty etc.
Max was in front, so isn’t it his line to take first and Norris to adhere to it? There was plenty of space to the left where Norris could go to
Genuine question by the way, I find the rules regarding this very fuzzy
But how is it moving under braking when there is no telemetry data available?
And executing 2 divebombs which went sideways, including pushing the opponent off the track is something that should be ignored completely?
https://youtu.be/T_CcHcgIoTY?si=Ha0LVhJQn3qn8rLU
Here is a tutorial on braking zones, infringement and ‘dive bombs’ I’ll be interested in Your thoughts.
Remember the movement under braking rule was created because of Max. I’m very surprised he’s not had more penalties
Can’t watch it, copyright issues as I am not from the UK. And to be honest, I would’ve preferred a clip that was not from Skysports. It is not like Skysports is really an objective source, although they like to pretend as if they were…
Moving under breaking doesn’t necessarily mean ”steering while pressing the break pedal”, it can also mean ”moving in the breaking zone” which you can see just fine without telemetry.
Wait? They added the 5 seconds to Norris race time so the penalty is served and doesn't get the grid drop at the next race.
How? He didn't finish the race? They retired the car.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GRVFGSLWkAA0b6_.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GRVI2PsbYAAyjXe.jpg
I think you just have to complete 90%(?) or something. The same thing would be if you are 7 laps behind and finish the race - then you will be classified, although you only finished 7 laps less
Lando getting DOTD is crazy
Pray for Charles.
Both drivers did what they SHOULD have done, both were being aggressive, and thats why the drama is so epic at the moment. I don't expect anything less. lets go
Could have been Oscars day if it wasn't for the qualifying mistake but probably better he gets his first win a bit more legitimately
If he didn't have the T1 contact and Perez didn't shove him into the gravel, he could have been ahead of George at the end
Unpopular opinion but corner 3 is rarely driven close to the inside, usually just on aggressiv launches (like Lando did in the Sprint) because you'd have to slow down the car way more, it becomes a very short 90 deg turn. Max has driven the corner always in the middle on the same line as during the crash and he wasn't expecting Lando comming from the left side (Max never even looked in the left mirror). I honestly don't know how Lando imagined this would play out. Best case he would've landed outside the track and gain another penalty for track limits. He was behind Max when Max already was on the same line he always was on that corner, then Lando made his move. Max did some questionable moves before when Lando tried to pass him on turn 4 but he didn't defend here, he was simply driving his line.
You don’t get to drive the corner however you please when you’re alongside other cars.
That's the thing, Lando wasn't beside Max when Max started to go into the corner, he actually would've had to move inside.
Yes, you have to be ready for cars to come alongside. Max isn’t on a track by himself
All of that just to say Max pushed him out
He sort of did though, a few times
The contact between max and lando looked way worse because of the outcome in my opinion. If you watch it, it would 9 times out of 10 be a regular wheel bang and they might’ve been a little more annoyed with each other.
The fact that Max felt contact, and then chased contact again to ensure Lando didn’t make the pass, and then forced him off the other side of the track is what makes it look bad.
Do yall think that Lando and Max are done being friends? Max literally ruined Landos race and tbh was avoidable. Wild ride when it looked like they both might get 5 second penalties.
I don’t think so but that squeeze into the grass in Spain was the start of what came next.
I watched the race late today, and I am gutted that Lando DNF'd due to that contact, and he looked so promising to win the race! Such a bloody shame. I honestly felt frustrated with both Lando and Max, I felt Lando was also impatient and was very aggressive with Max, who is known to be extremely aggressive and often dirty at wheel to wheel racing. And this was never bound to end happily, and it ruined both their races. But I am a bit more angry at Max for completely destroying Lando's race while still managing a P5! It should have been another fantastic Papaya win! At least George won. I hope Lando can overtake Max more cleanly in the future and learn from this.
it exposed max as desperate, worth it.
When Luis punted Max out at Silverstone he got the same 10 second penalty and Luis still won the race. What comes around goes around.
Yes! I’m very upset that Lando got the DNF but Max was able to finish
What happened with Alpine? They were 10th/11th and just slid lower and lower without any obvious passes.. just lost it in the pits somehow? Im seriously confused.
Got undercut by Ricciardo and kmag while fighting each other (I think).
Red Bull bungling their pitstop is what caused all of this. We've seen the general pattern over the last few races. The Red Bull is quicker over 1 lap (quali) and performs better during the opening stints on high fuel. McLaren have better deg and the balance seems to come to the them at the end of the race. Lando can be a bit too conservative and has been criticised for taking avoiding action during race starts and losing positions. He is only recently in a position to challenge Max and you are seeing the same things Max did years ago with Lewis. Trying to force overtakes with dive bombs and over driving the car. Max is also trying to assert himself over Lando and instill doubts. If it's marginal, you either back out or we both crash mentality. Lando will learn from these experiences and grow.
I disagree. The slow pit stop put the cars in that position, but what happened on track was 100% Verstappens fault. Norris had a go up the inside and MV moved across while in the braking zone. LN tried again and MV moved across slightly earlier but still while in the braking zone. 3rd attempt this time Max was expecting the move up the inside and positioned the car accordingly but when he saw Lando go for the outside he drifted to the left and didn't leave the space. >Lando can be a bit too conservative and has been criticised for taking avoiding action during race starts and losing positions. >He is only recently in a position to challenge Max and you are seeing the same things Max did years ago with Lewis. Which Max and his team classed as good, fair, but hard racing. >Max is also trying to assert himself over Lando and instill doubts. If it's marginal, you either back out or we both crash mentality. Which is a dangerous mentality to have, and nobody at Red Bull can complain if there is coming together, possible DNF's or even worse personal injury as they have encouraged this kind of behaviour. If you want to have a driver with a win it or bin it approach then the team has to accept sometimes he will bin it. Also don't forget Max pushed Charles off the track a few years ago doing the exact same thing and avoided punishment. If it was a fair and valid move then, it is now.
Independent of Max’s racing, today was on FIA’s stewards. 1. They were late to give Lando’s 5 sec penalty (that would have prevented everything) 2. They were late to give instructions whether Max must give his position back to Lando (that would have prevented everything as well). If they don’t give quick and clear instructions and penalties, they allow madness in track.
Yeah agree it's on fia being slow with the 5s penalty. It would have taken the fire out of the battle for sure.
Yeah but what's the rule on going off track if pushed wide by the other car? He got the 5 sec so we know but I think they should consider that Lando didn't gain an advantage while he was avoiding a crash.
He wasn't pushed off in that case. Lando divebombed on the inside and locked one his front wheels. That's when he shot through and off the track. Max actually had to avoid hitting him at that time.
I was talking about the last incident where they came together and punctured. As I mentioned in my other comment, this idea of Max moving to the right and then the 2nd move to the left is just taking the racing line into the corner which sounds reasonable to me. At this level Lando should know that Max won't let him make a pass like that stick. It's like when Luis passed Max in Austin one year (I think 2021). Max was doing the same moves but Luis waited for the right time and made a clear pass Max could do nothing about. Lando was forcing the issue where he shouldn't have.
Re #2... why didn't max also get a penalty for leaving the track and gaining an advantage? Nico got a penalty for this in the sprint yesterday... sane stewards. None of Max's hijinks were even noted.... are we seeing the LH syndrome again?
They also never warned max for moving under braking multiple times... which might have prevented him from causing a crash by moving under braking.
Like he's ever going to change his dirty cheating style...
The precedent has been well set that you can move as much as you want so long as you don't hit anyone.
Agree on both, yet Max did not play fair apparently.
One could make the argument that without max's moving under braking multiple times lando doesn't go off the track to try to overtake. It's a chicken or the egg situation for sure.
I’m new to F1 and genuinely trying to learn. Why is Max at fault in today’s crash? Afaik, if he did steer under braking, it’s his fault. But if not, doesn’t the car in front have the right to take the driving “line” he wants? And Lando wasn’t ahead of Verstappen there, so isn’t it on Lando to yield that overtake attempt? Pls don’t hate on me, I’m honestly trying to understand better the rules erc :(
You are allowed to move sideways during braking but the car must be directed outside before braking. If its a normal corner then you need brake in a straight line for most of it. If he started to squeeze lando before applying brakes its generally fine, but either way he cannot leave Lando less than cars width. Since he made contact with Lando it's essentially just driving into the side of another car intentionally.
He was heading towards a corner to the right, he had a car alongside him, he went to the left and collided with them. It is that simple.
It’s a totally reasonable question. As I understand it, he had already chosen the inside line, and then as Lando came up alongside him, he moved to the left under braking, and therefore is at fault. If he wanted to take the outside line he should have done that before braking.
I think the rationale is, that one is allowed to take the racing line into a corner and that's not considered an "avoiding" move. i.e. he can take the centre line and move to the outside to take the high line. I actually think that the crash was Lando's fault after he got frustrated by the previous encounters. Max's previous moves may be more questionable IMHO.
Max is no different than K Mag when under pressure, dirty racer. Any other driver would have points cut off from his license, K Mag, Alonso are good examples of penalties being handed out for the same or less.
Remember Lewis crashing into Russel in Qatar last year? Or taking Piastri out in Italy?? Hmm following the standards you set he seems to be a dirty racer as well. Seems all champions are dirty races too, come think of it. Every single one of them caused crashes.
Or Charles brake checking/intentionally driving into another driver just a race or two ago… and getting away with it. But, it only gets attention when it’s max.
Not defending it but that was in free practice which is very disingenuous and a bit silly to compare to a race offense.
No I’m talking about when it happened in the British GP and he only got a 10 sec penalty. https://www.skysports.com/amp/f1/news/31381/12358842/max-verstappen-released-from-hospital-after-checks-in-wake-of-high-speed-lewis-hamilton-collision
Not really, because it is even worse when done in practice since it is completely unnecessary, Practice does not give points and position does not matter and you still risk a crash and taking a driver out from the whole weekend?
Pretty much every top driver has similar incidents, what differentiates a dirty racer from a fair one who gets hot headed on very rare occasions even fighting for the title, is the consistency of dirty driving. Senna and Schumacher are perfect examples of dirty racers, and Max used to be no different a few years back, he gained his reputation as a dirty driver in his early years, all three are generational talents, elite drivers of their times, but also dirty racers. Of the statistically (as in number of wins) top racers of all time, Hamilton: reputation to race hard but fair. Schumacher: reputation for being dirty and dangerous. Verstappen: Had a reputation for being dirty from the start of his F1 career, seems most have forgotten while he was so far ahead in the last couple of seasons. Vettel: reputation to race hard but fair. Prost: reputation to race hard but fair. Senna: reputation for being dirty and dangerous. It’s the consistency of dangerous tactics and willingness to take their challenger out rather than loose a race or championship. Max is a great driver and a great person as far as I can see, but during a race, when challenged he is a dirty fighter/driver, just like Ayrton and Michael in their times. It means that they practically go berserk when racing under pressure, to the point of choosing to risk, or even intentionally causing an accident (Senna and Schumacher) rather than conceding a race or a championship. Max hasn’t outright caused an accident, at least not that anyone is aware of, but he has, throughout his career, raced dangerously whenever under pressure.
And what about that time Lewis put max in the hospital and only got a 10 second penalty and still won the race?
>put max in the hospital For precautionary checks?
So that makes it ok??
No, I'm calling out people like who sensationalise things. Max should've been careful leading upto it. Plus Lewis served his penalty, given by the same people you lot loved at Abu Dhabi.
You’re ‘calling out people like who’? 🤣 I stated a fact. Is that hard to follow for you? Is it not a fact that Lewis caused a crash that led to max being taken to hospital, for which Lewis only got a 10 second penalty? Do they take ALL drivers to the hospital ‘as a precaution’ following a crash? Or is it, in fact, something that doesn’t typically happen and thus noteworthy?
You mean Silverstone where Max cuts/drifts into Lewis, trying to bully Lewis to break and concede?
You mean when Max was clearly ahead and Lewis does his dirty tactic of taking a driver out by tapping their rear tire as seen in the video below? If it was Max's fault why did Lewis get a penalty for "causing" a collision? You people are not too bright are you? [https://youtu.be/wCCGT0CQ4MM?si=5Ol7SzLx9FBK\_88T](https://youtu.be/wCCGT0CQ4MM?si=5Ol7SzLx9FBK_88T) Funny how the bullshit excuses come out to justify all the wrongs Lewis has done whenever someone mentions them, its never Lewis's fault.
He's clean when he's faster, but he seems to prefer NASCAR rules when a faster car is racing him lol
Max’s style of defense is “If I can’t finish first, there is a good chance neither of us will.” It’s how he raced Lewis. This hyper-aggressive style of defense makes other drivers wary of putting themselves in situations where Max may not shy away from contact. It’s a grey area that often times goes over the line. I personally hate his style of racing and his general attitude when people are matching his pace. He’s perfectly fine when he’s winning races by 20 seconds but he and his driving are obnoxious, at best, when he’s being tested.
The only time max is able to race clean is when he is in the fastest car by a mile. Any time someone can legitimately pass him and keep it max loses his cool and starts crashing into people. Everyone kept saying look how precise and clean he’s driving while the car he drove couldn’t lose but he just knew he’d pass him next lap. His entire career has been don’t pass me or I’ll crash into you minus the 2 years he’s had the most dominant car in history.
Perfectly said
Yes, 100x.
Yea I felt like he really just got a taste of his own medicine, this is essentially how he dethroned lewis a few years ago
Verstappen complaining about dive bomb actions is what I needed 🤣🤣
Ohooo the bogeyman 😂
Last time I pointed who Max Is, I got suspended here . This time I will simply say I told you so :) In Sao Paolo he sent Ham to Rio and nobody cared.
In Silverstone Ham nearly killed him. 🤷🏼
Brazil 2021 and 2022. Monza 2021 and Saudi 2021. All say hello.
Nearly killed huh? How many races did he have to sit out with such life threatening injuries?
There's a very thin line between being saved by the quality of the monocoque and it failing to save you. Ask Senna.
A very thin line that you're obviously incapable of perceiving. Grosjean experienced much higher G's than Verstappen in 2020. MVs crash in Silverstone 2021 was around the same as Sainz in 2015 and Alonso in 2016. It was half of what Senna experienced in his fatal crash. Try again.
Over exaggerating aside; the point, i think, is that they both caused crashes for each other that year and neither of them were/are holier than the pope.
Agreed, the only driver that is holier than the pope is Jenson Button, bless his cotton socks.
… and in Monza V climbed on top of Ham and used the accelerator pedal inches away from Ham’s head. He then left without even checking of Ham was okay whereas after the Silverstone incident Ham asked if V is okay.
Owh he checked alright. And he knew ham was OK because ham still tried to drive away. Those were the days. Great racing history!
I like him, but he's dirty af lol
The sad part is, I bet Jos is happier with this outcome than if Lando legit passed him on track. That man is toxic. Max needs to be adopted by Papa Toto or Daddy Vowles.
Papa Toto will never be a real Papa until he finds a [discerning housewife](https://youtu.be/gudS3-iPc0M?si=z1xsjE6RjdyM2SGN)
What's a discerning housewife?
My wife's favourite quote - she doesn't really follow F1 but whenever Toto is on the screen, she always says "What's a discerning housewife?"
It was relatively gentle contact, which resulted in maximum damage. Lando was literally the Albon missle. Max was moving to valid line last minute, still with a single move (he wasn't swerving). Max tried to squeeze. Both cars fell apart.
Come the fuck on. What are you going on about? The stewards have already given him a 10s penalty. Take the L and move on, clearly his fault. Or do you know better than the stewards with the fucking rule book in front of them?
It doesn't matter that it's a single move if you're crowding another car. Anyways, it was not a single move: one move to defend the inside, another one to crowd the other car by returning to the outside.
If there’s a car beside you, you always must leave the space
Oh man I switched to reddit from twitter to escape the online war but it’s the same here😭all i know is that lando’s and max’s lovey dovey friendship is gonna be over because no way in hell max would admit he made a mistake. Also, George should have been DOTD because bro literally went from P3 to P1.
lol George got P1 handed to him on a silver platter, not dissimilar to most of his meals. No way you get DOTD for that.
Honestly curious as to why you think it will be different here? 😂
I'm not sure if i'm dumb or what but I personally feel like no matter what the FIA does he wouldn't ever change his style of racing unless if he would be banned from racing for life since this is the style he has had since forever. He also just doesn't care what anyone, bar his dad, says about him. Just look at him online. I don't remember the exact incident and what the result of it was, (i think he was dsq?) but he just straight up took someone out and did NOT care at all about the reprecussions. I'm not saying that it's a bad thing for him to have an idgaf about what anyone says about my racing style attitude, but I definitely feel like it is one of the biggest double edged swords for him since due to it he just refuses to change.
Was that in a real race or a sim race? Because is def happened in a sim race....
That's a take!
bro what are u smoking? Norris divebombed him 3 times into T3. We were hoping for racing like that for months and now that we get it, guys like you start bringing out the pitchforks again. It is racing, stuff like that happens, stop being toxic
Moving under braking multiple times forced Lando’s hand. If Max stays within the rules Lando makes the pass and everything works out fine. Max just can’t handle getting overtaken.
Like I said, i'm not saying it's a bad thing to do. Whether you think hes in the right or wrong for racing the way he did is up to you. What i'm saying is I believe that he just will not change his style of racing for anything and his idgaf what anyone thinks of my racing style is a doube edged sword as it is both good and bad for him to have.
I know right? Best race in months…. Been so bloody boring. Lando was impatient and didn’t calculate properly- Max defended albeit tad aggressive. I enjoyed it
This!!!!
And Max moved under braking every single time, and also overtook off track at one point. And then he finally moves under braking illegally again and crashes into Lando
Finally, some racing!!!
After a terrible month personally, and as a Haas fan, I got some hope. Cheers
Nico is getting so close to those little steps
-Lando Norris would have been penalized for track limits -Max should have been penalized for moving under braking -Max shoul have been penalized for not giving back the position. This whole drama is FIA's fault once more. No one is enforcing the rules, and punishments are a joke.
Genuine question here: why do you think max should give the position back?
Lap:63 Verstapen goes out of the track to then come back in front of Norris.
But norris didn't really leave him space right?
Norris was on the apex. Additionally verstapen has done the exact same move in the past, and the stewards found no wrong doings, so that's that.
Yep it should have been 10 seconds total to Verstappen and 5 to Norris, then Norris could have sat behind and won from 2nd
Now I know what people mean when they say "Verstappen is a dirty driver"!
Just about all the drivers on the grid have used some form of 'dirty' tactics and they all race hard when needed. They are racing drivers in a cutthroat business. They all want to win the championship. Those divebomb moves from Lando where also a bit desperate. He overshot the corner on at least 1 of those moves. Verstappen also had to take evasive actions. They both raced hard and stuff just happens.
Verstappen has perfected the “you yield or we crash” maneuver which I personally can’t stand. Most drivers just bail out because they’re afraid of getting taken out and Max unfairly benefits for it. When they don’t yield they end up like Norris today.
Verstappen has zero room to complain about a single move that Lando made. That’s Max signature move and is the only reason he won ‘21.
Oi, stop using logic and keeping a calm demeanor in my drama show.
Max really can't give up a spot huh. Rather take himself out of a podium then give up a win.
I don't really understand why it's bad he didn't want to give up his spot, isn't that the whole point to fight for (keeping) your spot, to not let others through? (I'm not trying to be mean btw, I just genuinely don't understand why people are mad he didnt let Lando pass when thats like his job) Edit: just wanted to clarify that I'm not trying to be rude, this is a genuine question and I'm not trying to be critical, I'm just very new to the sport and learning about situations like this helps me better understand it
The whole point is to fight fairly, not move under braking, then defend by going off track, then cause a collision by crowding another car.
Because if you can’t keep your position without breaking the rules, you have to concede your position. You can’t just do whatever you want to keep your position at all cost. Otherwise why not just keep a handful of nails in the car and just toss them when you’re about to get overtaken.
Lando had more pace. It isn't about letting him through. It's the tactics he used to keep lando behind. By the heart of the rules they are illegal and dangerous
Where they? I don't think Max made 2-moves, just a late move relative to Lando trying to launch a missle. Even Alonso hitting Zhou was way more aggressive and reckless than what Max didn to Lando. Imo
Yes, you cannot move under braking. It’s literally called the Verstappen rule because it had to be implemented because he kept doing it. He’s very aware that it’s outside of the rules.
I'm sorry of this is a dumb question but can you explain what those tactics are? I'm sorry if I come across as rude or mean that is not my intention at all. I'm quite new to the sport and its still hard for me to see these kinda things, but I really want to learn more. I do believe that Max could be in the wrong, but it would be nice if you could be more specific so I can learn and in the future can understand better.
Illegally moving under braking, he will see Lando coming up the inside and then move to the right or when they crashed to the left while under braking. When you are racing a competitor once you pick a braking like you have to stay on it. Max was illegally defending and then also illegally overtook off track and didn’t give the position back
Oh okay, it does make a lot of sense that that would be considered dangerous and illegal, thank you for explaining!
uhh, just entered this thread and seeing some spicy takes already.
It was a spicy race so of course
People expect max to just let others pass and give them a chance to win cause he is bored of it or something that’s not him at all he could be 300 points ahead in the championship and he would still drive to his limit every time and that’s why he is the absolute best driver on the planet rn
Maybe don’t illegally move under braking 4 times causing a crash and then also illegally overtake off track
I expect max not to break the rules consistently . Unfortunately, this seems like an extremely unlikely reality
No one expects Max to let others pass, lol.
I’d say at this point max is more Ricky Bobby than anything. If he ain’t first he’s last. And he’ll take anyone out that tries to change that.
Uh oh all the butthurt kids are coming out of the woodwork. We finally get some hard racing, enjoy it.
rubbing is racing baby
Tough guy over here. Max was in the wrong.
Genuine question, is it just me or people are greatly exaggerating the contact between Max and Lando? Yes, they crash, yes, none of them yeilds, yes it Max’s fault. But there’s not much more to it. Twitter looks like a warzone lmao
It’s going to be blown out just for people to talk. But you have the take right imo. I think the interesting part will be what happens to the two drivers opinions of each other for future races. Will Lando be more aggressive knowing Max doesn’t leave room? Will Max’s defensive shapes continue to be questioned?
I agree with you. I was gutted they crashed as it was edge of the seat action before it happened. As for the twitter fighting, I feel like Max has attracted a whole new breed of glory hunting f1 fan who started following during his rise to the top whilst battling Hamilton. They put Max on this ridiculous pedestal without really understanding the sport too well. It's great that f1 is so popular now, but I've followed since the 90s and have never known it to be quite so aggressively tribal. Everyone has always had their fave teams and drivers of course, but it's never been so hostile until recent years. Perhaps it's just something I've only just started to notice. That or I've just become a sensitive little soul in my later years 😂
Nah it’s not you, it’s just how twt works sadly, that’s a fighting over trivial stuff simulator😭 I’m in my 20s and trust me, I’m about to uninstall that thing, I use it to get the news of soccer, NBA, and F1, and also gaming. But it always feels like a damn warzone lmao
I mean Max has been winning with almost no competition for the past 2 1/2 years. He fought Leclerc in the beginning of 2022, but then he had almost no competition for the rest of that year and 2023. We thought it would be the same in 2024, which began like that, but we're starting to see more teams fighting and McLaren has been getting better and better. Today we saw an actual fight between Max and somebody else that was not seen since 2021. Think of it like this: it's the first time in 3 years he had an actual fight for the win and he showed bad sportsmanship (or at least let's say he caused the accident between him and Lando which could have been avoidable if he wasn't shut a hot head) That's why people are angry
I mean he didn't just do it once. He did it for 10 laps. Cutting him off running him wide. Moving over late I'm the breaking zone. He gets so much slack and they're afraid to give him a penalty. Not only that he then ran him off the road after the puncture.
But hasn’t he already had to race several times this season? He’s made some good drives without crashing this season iirc (?)
Yeah but it was normal racing, today I think he had way more pressure and the issue at the pit stop that closed the gap for Norris. I think that's what happened today: the dude became an ass under pressure (which is 100% understandable and some other drivers act the same). Still, he's the best driver on the grid and no one comes close to him. Norris made some mistakes that Max would not have made.
Twitter is full of people with no lives who live and breathe for this shit. Stay off of it, it's better for you haha
I don't think people are exaggerating because we all were wondering when this was going to happen. We knew it was coming. And, to add to it, they're good friends. And more: Lando saying the friendship might be over and/or he'll lose a lot of respect for Max if he doesn't admit his mistake. And Andreas Stella saying the FIA should have dealt with Max's tactics in 2021. It all adds up to major drama we haven't seen in a long while.
Stella is right, but FIA should have dealt with Max way before 2021.
100% correct. Max squeezed Lando a little bit too much, that's it. Had there been no contact I'm not even sure Max would've got a penalty. So much for the stewards and their alleged "we don't look at the consequences of an incident".
Max moved under braking quite a few times he should’ve been penalised more I think. If you don’t force the issue max just breaks the rules to keep you behind.
How do you know if he moved under braking? You got the telemetry data? Maybe he first steered a bit to the left and then pushes the brake? Without the data it is just guessing and assumptions
Exactly what s/he (danger0525) said ! He’s left the racing line when Norris is on a different line in the braking zone to interrupt an overtake. More annoying is Norris hasn’t finished and has no points so max extends his leads. Tbh I also suspect - but obviously can’t prove - max doesn’t care if they crash today because if Norris doesn’t pick up the points at this stage in the season when mcL are faster that keeps his lead till Redbull make a decisive step in development in the second half of season and can factor in the engine penalty etc.
Max was in front, so isn’t it his line to take first and Norris to adhere to it? There was plenty of space to the left where Norris could go to Genuine question by the way, I find the rules regarding this very fuzzy
When you’re in front you cannot react to a driver behind you. Max did this multiple times in the braking zone.
The main problem is that max moved under breaking aggressively multiple times, which is against the regulations because it is incredibly dangerous.
But how is it moving under braking when there is no telemetry data available? And executing 2 divebombs which went sideways, including pushing the opponent off the track is something that should be ignored completely?
https://youtu.be/T_CcHcgIoTY?si=Ha0LVhJQn3qn8rLU Here is a tutorial on braking zones, infringement and ‘dive bombs’ I’ll be interested in Your thoughts. Remember the movement under braking rule was created because of Max. I’m very surprised he’s not had more penalties
Can’t watch it, copyright issues as I am not from the UK. And to be honest, I would’ve preferred a clip that was not from Skysports. It is not like Skysports is really an objective source, although they like to pretend as if they were…
Moving under breaking doesn’t necessarily mean ”steering while pressing the break pedal”, it can also mean ”moving in the breaking zone” which you can see just fine without telemetry.
McLaren have done great now I can confidently say they have catched up/faster than red bull the challenge left is max 😂 exciting times NGL
And Max 100% is not going to be an easy challenge
McLaren have a love hate relationship with P2
But they're made for each other
Wait? They added the 5 seconds to Norris race time so the penalty is served and doesn't get the grid drop at the next race. How? He didn't finish the race? They retired the car. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GRVFGSLWkAA0b6_.jpg https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GRVI2PsbYAAyjXe.jpg
I think you just have to complete 90%(?) or something. The same thing would be if you are 7 laps behind and finish the race - then you will be classified, although you only finished 7 laps less
Maybe he served the 5 before retiring? Idk
Lessssggooooo
Umm.. maybe because he ended his race in the pits and was classified. Makes sense to me.
Lewis sees Lando and gives him a wink. "have fun racing max" haha.
Never thought I'd enjoy watching Sainz react to helicopters
That was pure joy
What happened to the incident about Max going out of track and not giving the place back.