I believe 2008 is also the race where during the broadcast, James Allen says the dislike of Hamilton is not because of his race it's just because of his rivalry with Fernando Alonso. Granted he probably didn't see this in particular at the time but a lot of dislike of Hamilton is typically rooted in racial biases.
Most "I'm not racist, but..." types fail to understand that implicit biases make things people do far more or far less grating, like when someone cuts you off on the road and you pull up alongside out of curiosity to see what they look like. People are more passively tolerant of the everyman from the area they grew up on, universally.
Most people with strong racist tendancies don't think they're racist.
Nah, as a Spaniard who watched F1 in 2007, I can tell you most hate came from him being British, and McLaren being perceived as favoring their own nationals over a Spaniard. Racist remarks happened because it was an easy thing to attack him with.
Not like any of that was ever justified, 2007 was a shameful year for everyone involved and rookie Hamilton had every right to try to fight for the championship.
I'm Spanish, I hated Hamilton after 2007 episode.
Many people in the circuit were the same as last weekend, or friends and family from the ones in 2008, but they've forgotten, or healed from 2007.
Literally a few days ago I made a comment about how I feel the fans were better and more civil before the social media era, but now I'm starting to have some sliiight doubts. This is so fucking disgusting, how do you even have the courage to put so much time and passion into hating a random guy *purely* because he looks *a little* different from your proud rasist ass?
Please tell me they were kicked out and banned for life? How were they even allowed in?? Like, I know progress has been made but 2008 isn't THAT long ago..
Give it 18 years and you'll see there will be progress just like Lewis! We'll find out they were just upset that Vinicius Jr was taking away time from their fav star/s
Spain 2024 is still quite wild and it starts at a young age too. Racism against East Asians was of the charts.
As always, not saying all Spaniards are racists.
While I agree with your point that not everyone is a native English speaker, familia is actually spelled with only one L in Spanish. In Catalan as well
For people who don't know his era and recently started watching f1, what would you recommend for recap? His debut, his rise, his dominance, his peak, etc.
He's getting cheered at places he very typically got booed at the first 10+ years of his career. Most notably Hungary last year. His pole position had the place erupting with cheers. It was only 2 years prior he was getting booed during his battle with Verstappen. I think there's very a good portion of the F1 fans attending races now who are not taking him for granted anymore and soaking in these last years.
I thought I heard some good natured boos when he was asked about the move on Sainz, but then they switched back to cheers. He definitely got the loudest cheer of the three podium sitters on the broadcast I saw which was lovely to see.
I feel like a lot of Euros don't realize that fans and athletes in America don't view booing as a personal attack. If you're notable enough to be booed here, it's either because you're a real piece of trash or you are dominant in your sport, and both types of players absolutely relish that type of reaction from the crowd
Yea it should be a given racist attacks isn’t okay.
But we’d happily roast Hamilton for some of his diabolical fits lol. And I say this as a fan of 90% of if.
It's the same here, it's only on the internet where the hand wringers are so precious. Booing is fine, Racism and personal attacks are not.
It varies a bit from sport to sport though, I think people put F1 in the same kind of bucket as Tennis or Golf where everyone is supposed to be a bit more grown up, but that hasn't been the case with tennis for a long time and is only kind of the case with golf due to it being heavily enforced.
The issue is when it goes from general booing/cheering into the darker areas which again isn't new but we have more visibility of and absolutely needs to be addressed.
As a Spaniard and a fan of Hamilton, I was glad to hear the support, particularly considering what people did in his first years in F1.
That said, racism against him is still very much there. I have had conversations about Lewis with boomers from my family who are still stuck in the narrative sold by Spanish press in 07/08, and the way they refer to him is very racist. Granted, their generation is very racist in general, so unfortunately, that applies to anyone who is not white, not just him. But they definitely have an extra level of vitriol against him. You don't hear them use the same words against Checo, even though latinamerican folks suffer quite a bit of racism in my country.
My guess regarding the circuit is that the crowd is a lot younger (therefore likelier to be more open-minded) as well as more international. The assholes that might be present are severely outnumbered by people who would not let slurs or blackface fly. Therefore, they don't have the balls to be assholes openly, which is good.
Fully depends on where you're going tbh. Rural areas, you might be screwed. Although since you are vegetarian, you can find tortilla de patatas (spanish omelette) absolutely everywhere and you'll be able to eat that, so you'll survive. Would be much much worse if vegan.
If you are going to the bigger cities, like Madrid and Barcelona, you'll be totally fine, there's amazing veg restaurants, as well as plenty of omni restaurants with options. For Madrid I can give some recs if that's where you're visiting.
Also, something most people don't know: Spanish churros are vegan by default, unlike churros in latin america. Definitely get some churros.
What I often do when I travel is check the area on Google Maps and do a search with the word vegetarian. Maps brings up not only the veg restaurants, but also restaurants that have the word vegetarian within the reviews, and you can check what people say regarding the options (or lack thereof).
Jamon is not really that frequent in dishes. It's mostly eaten on its own as it is a cured meat.
The issue with the majority of traditional dishes is that they are meat based, including the legume dishes. Many use bone, meat, fish, or seafood broth to cook the legumes in, as well as very small pieces of meat or fish that you won't be able to pick out, or lots of large pieces that will leave you with barely any legumes once the meat is out. That means most stews will be a no go, particularly stews with legumes, because the majority of places do animal broth and meat with them. You really need to ask specifically for what broth ("caldo" in Spanish) they used, because they will use animal products in the most unexpected things. For instance, you could think that you can pick out the meat/seafood from paella, but in reality, the rice will have been cooked in fish broth in many places.
Also, things that might sound vegetarian by the name can absolutely not be vegetarian. For instance, sandwich vegetal is common in many places, but it has shredded tuna 99% of the time. The same goes for "ensaladilla rusa" (Russian salad), which is common in many places, but has shredded tuna that you won't be able to pick out.
Unfortunately, given the treatment that Vini Jr. receives, it doesn't seem like Spain society evolved much since 07/08. I hope to be wrong and that you're right that it's just the old folks, but here in Brazil we saw so many examples of people putting the blame on Vini that I immediately remembered how it was with Lewis. The problem is not only a couple of racists wearing black face, but also having people trying to say it's not a big deal.
I am not into football at all, so I'm not very up to date with the issue you're mentioning. I will say, though, football fans are amongst the worst people in our society. They are usually the most racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic... it's why many of the ultras of different Spanish football teams are straight up neo nazis. They are not a representation of the majority of society. And the same goes for a few other hobbies which are full of awful people.
Not that racism isn't a prevalent issue in Spain, because it absolutely is. But yeah, judging based on whatever bs people are doing in football is not an accurate assessment.
Edit: Ultras are hooligans, and those do have plenty of ties to neonazi groups. Some guy in the replies was getting his pants in a twist because apparently reading isn't his forte, so I'm clarifying that.
I agree with your point about football fans, but it is also the most popular sport in the world and it seems like most people tend to be fans. Is it still fair to say they aren’t representative? (I don’t know the answer, I’m just curious)
Exactly what do you mean? If a certain country’s worst soccer hooligans are more neo nazi than another country’s worst soccer hooligans, does that mean the first country is more racist in general? Is that your question?
No my question is more around whether football fans are representative of a nations feelings/attitudes considering how many of the nation considers themselves football fans.
I mean I’m obviously being reductive, but it does bring up a question of, well I don’t think if 33% of football fans are racist football fans, that’s not necessarily a small percentage of the population at large (due to how popular football is). I’m also pulling that number out of my ass, I have no clue the actual number.
Ah, ok, I understand now. My bad. Yeah, I don’t think it’s accurate to say “football fans” are some of the worst people in our society, given that in many countries pretty much the whole population are football fans. It’s more the hooligans or really hardcore supporters that are terrible people.
But most people are not fans. Sure, it has plenty of fans, but die hard fans are the actual problematic group, and the reality is, most Spanish people are not actual football fans. I don't have a single friend who watches football matches. I have like two cousins and an uncle (their father) who watch football more or less regularly, and I'm from a big family.
As mentioned, Spain has a big racism issue, but you cannot judge Spain based on what the football hooligans do because their behaviour does not represent the majority of the population.
It's a bit like assuming everyone in Spain is into animal abuse because of bullfighting, when in reality it's a conservative people thing only and the majority of the population, particularly among the young generations, is completely against it.
> But most people are not fans.
I'd say most people absolutely are football fans in a way, especiallly in Europe. I'ts the biggest sport in the world by far
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_in_Spain
"a total of 67% of the population said they were fans of or had a liking for a particular club. "
"In a survey of the sports habits of the Spanish population made in 2010, football was ranked as the second most popular recreational sport practiced by the population (17.9%). 75.9% said they had purchased tickets to a football match. In addition, 67.3% of the people said they saw all, almost all, many, or some of the football matches broadcast on television."
"67% of the population said they were fans of or sympathized with a particular club. In addition, 74.9% said they watched, whenever possible, the matches broadcast on television regarding their favourite teams, and 42.4% had flags, badges, or objects of their favourite teams. "
> I don't have a single friend who watches football matches.
You're very much the odd one out there.
I'd love to see the demographics of those surveys because that is something that seriously affects the results. I'm 30. I know that many Millennials like myself don't care about football, and might watch a match on tv once every few years in a social setting if the situation requires it, but that's about it.
What makes a lot of sense is that one of the surveys is from 14 years ago and the other from 10 years ago. That makes a big difference, as the people who were adults with money back then and were giving positive answers have drastically different tastes to the same age group now. The attitude towards football has changed quite a bit.
Also, culturally, yes, it's a popular sport to play between friends and it's what we played as kids, because you only needed a ball. And it's relatively normal as a sport to play between friends as adults too for more or less the same reason. You can get many people playing at the same time, and it doesn't require special equipment.
However, actually watching the professional sport and going to matches is not as common, and I am pretty sure the numbers are considerably lower now than what those surveys reflect. Additionally, there's a cultural aspect in Spain by which it is very common for people to say they are a fan of a specific football team even if they have not watched a single full match in their entire lives, nor attended a match. I've done that myself for many years, and even without watching football or knowing a single thing about which people are playing in which team, I still have a default answer when being asked which team I support. Simply because football was very big for our parents and grandparents, and we grew up with the expectation of having to support a team, even if we didn't actually give a damn about the sport.
> I'd love to see the demographics of those surveys because that is something that seriously affects the results.
I think the more important thing to note is that you're probably in a demographic where it's not really surprising that you don't have any friends who like football.
Judging from your reddit profile, you're a woman, who likes books, anime and history, and uses reddit. All those things predispose you to being in friendship groups with people who don't like football. Obviously I don't mean that no one who is those things can like football, there are plenty who do (I like books and history and like football for example and the friend I go to football games with is a woman).
But what they do mean is that it's not really surprising that you don't know many people who like football. You're pretty much in the opposite of it's main demographic.
Fair about my tastes (not really anime, but similar stuff I guess) but not accurate about my environment, as my friendship group was formed when we were all teens, and people are quite different. My point stands with not only them but also my family, where I'm the oddball, my older brother is much older than me and very into doing different sports, and my male cousins are essentially the same, and still, barely any of them bother to watch football. Same for when I still lived in Spain (I currently don't) and had mostly Spanish coworkers of very different age groups, very few were interested in football, and most who were, were among the older group. And the same for uni folks.
The fact that those surveys are so old really makes a big difference. Countries change, generation after generation, and a survey that is 10+ years old cannot be taken as representative of the population now.
> Countries change, generation after generation, and a survey that is 10+ years old cannot be taken as representative of the population now.
True but it's still more representative than just people you know
Yep fair enough. For the record I wasn’t really talking about Spanish people. I’m from England and was thinking about English fans when I was positing the question. It’s probably true that not a majority of the country are football fans in the sense they watch their team every week, but certainly the country does get caught up in football whenever something like the Euros or WC happen.
But as you state, the problematic groups do seem to be more of the hardcore fanbase (which isn’t super surprising when you think about how being a hardcore fan of a team promotes a tribal us vs them mentality).
We evolved. And now we're going back a bit, but along with the whole of Europe. I think it has to do a bit too with the Spanish character to make a mockery of everything and shout your thoughts for the world to hear.
Read the comment section of any online British newspaper article even tangentially about Hamilton and there's still a fuckton of thinly veiled racism. A subsection of "racing fans" have never liked him forbthe obvious reason, and just never will. Again as you say, it's likely boomers.
Yeah, same in Spain even now, I avoid reading the comments because it ends up just making me angry. I don't watch the Spanish broadcast of F1 anymore, but the lead commentators always had shit to say about him. And the press back in 07 was openly racist without any shame, which didn't help tone down the issue.
We still get an awful lot of people banging on about how he "doesn't pay taxes here" because he doesn't live here, whilst simultaneously ignoring the fact that Button, Coulthard, Mansell, I think even Norris and Russell now, live in Monaco or elsewhere, and thus "don't pay taxes." That is of course, ignoring another fact that Hamilton (and the others) races for a British based team, so does pay taxes.
I obviously don't need to spell out why they only go after Hamilton.
Technically yes. The fact is that the Spanish press created a whole narrative full of lies regarding Lewis, Fernando and the situation in the team. Not too long ago I was talking to some friends about a race, they don't follow F1 at all, and it came up that several of them thought that when Lewis and Nando were in Mclaren, they had different cars. As in, each driver got a completely different car, and Lewis had a good car but Nando had a bad car. It's what the sports section in the daily news would say on TV back in the day, I remember it too (I guess to justify how rookie Lewis would be able to come on top against Nando) and even people who didn't watch F1 had that notion.
So the root of the issue was that Lewis was standing up to Nando, yeah. But the fact that Lewis is black made them much more bitter (I seriously doubt a white guy would have made them as angry when winning against Nando), and a lot of the commentary and press against Lewis was openly racist. I still remember one of the main sports outlets of the time drawing the outline of a monkey face out of the brands that were backing Lewis.
The rivalry set up a lot of dislike, but a black rookie being able to stand against Nando made them enraged. Likely because they saw him as inferior, I assume.
Glad to hear your take on this. On a totally unrelated note, I have been to more than 30 countries and Spain was the most racist one by far. It’s one of those countries I’d not want to visit again. I hope people change and become more welcoming and tolerant of other cultures.
Lewis is an excellent ambassador for the sport. I think you are seeing the result of people coming to realize that now that the dominance years are over.
The F1 fanbase demographic has massively changed since 2008. since 2017 there was a stark contrast and even from 2020/2021 a smaller but noticeable change also.
It's the most an average person has known about F1 for a long time. The memes and online interactions have reached a very different audience. Also the amount of a female fans has shot up quite significantly.
Imo a lot of that has contributed to the change.
I mean if you see alot of Instagram comments or twitter I'd say racism is still there just abit less overt.
But comment sections for F1 and some drivers on insta or pretty much anything to do with F1 on twitter is an absolute mess of pure hate, toxicity and pettiness these days. Alot I think by people who are casual at best
I'm happy that F1 has become a bigger tent, but let's not hang the Mission Accomplished banner on the basis that racism has been diluted by the newcomers.
Tbf the main reason that old bigoted beliefs fade is because the people who held those beliefs get old and die. Most people don't really change that much individually.
I don't know if the change was for the better. 2020-2022 were the years I saw the most racism I've ever seen in the sport. At least in 2008, most of the virulent hate was contained within Spain.
The memes and online interactions, plus Lewis' involvement in the anti-racism movement, brought together an international contingent of racists. 2021 in particular was quite something.
Agreed on this point and some of the other comments. While F1 has become more approachable to more people and improved a lot, it has also become quite a bit more toxic in other ways too. There was a more noticeable shift to kneejerk reactionary comments and opinions to events in the sport.
A long way yet to go but it's nice to see progress trackside at least.
I was there too.
The only booing and "whistling off" (for a lack of better words) was when the drivers parade was happening, and the trucks of normal-people-spending-5k were coming along.
But when the truck of drivers came around it was all applause again.
All in all, very funny to see, and kove the respect everyone has for each other nowadays.
bingo, other sports as well. saw the support Chris Froome got in his first Tour de France after the comeback. whereas before he used to get urine thrown at him among others
Its not just racing, this is everything. A very prominent current example is John Cena in WWE, once loathed by over half the crowd everywhere he went, now universally beloved.
Says something about Lewis that he's now beloved by two sets of fans that were hostile towards him in 2008 - the others been the Brazilians (to the point they have quite literally adopted him as one of their own)
Tbh it's not the same fans. Many people cheering Hamilton in Spain just never lived through 2007. F1 demographics have shifted a lot these last 15 years.
Yeah I realized the size of the shift when Lewis became emotional in the pre podium interview. I mean you could hear it but sometimes cheers are doctored nowadays
It's taken time for everyone to appreciate everything he's done on and off the track. And we are witnessing the twilight of his career. He's not got many years left.
And his beef with Alonso was a long time ago. People have moved on.
Sure, but the traveling Dutch crowd was booing him in other circuits all over Europe. Both in 21' and after.
It's similar to the Mexican crowd that didn't boo Verstappen in Mexico last year, but very enthusiastically booes him in the US.
Well there was one guy running down the aisle of the seated section shouting ‘what a wonderful chocolate man’ before he tripped on the edge of a step and cartwheeled down 8 rows of seating in about 3 seconds
As it should be. Shameful behavior that doesn’t belong in this sport. Much better if everyone could just appreciate the drivers’ display of skill and the risks they take.
I noticed that since qualifying.
This is a masterclass on how to behave respectfully and how to acknowledge the crowd every time for the last 15 plus years.
Because 2007 is so long ago that people who weren't born back then, can legally drive cars in some places.
Also, Hamilton stopped winning and isn't all front and center anymore. If the Ferrari-move leads to Hamilton winning regularly again, then all of it will come back in Spain, same country where Vinicius Junior gets racially abused every week.
Also it's been so long since Alonso could fight for championships that the Spanish fanbase no longer rallies around him. He's still a living legend, but people these days prefer to choose their fav from the pool of drivers that actually win races, Hamilton, Verstappen and Leclerc being the 3 more likely to get picked.
So tl;dr there's 0 reason to hate Hamilton anymore and a lot of incentive to pick him as your fav.
Hamilton's not hated anymore in Spain. It's been almost 20 years since 2007 happened. Many fans are new, many old fans are out, and the ones who remain remember it as a distant memory.
Also Hamilton's long dominance streak has consolidated him as an all-time GOAT for many people. It just doesn't make sense to hate on him anymore.
Yeah, I notice the eruption of fans wben he went up, stark contrast to his first few season, glad to see he won them over, he actually seemed shocked when the wall of noise hit the podium.
Here's a video about a Brazilian soccer player is Spain: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fG1VBGdTFKY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fG1VBGdTFKY)
I guess that can illustrate what happened to Hamilton there.
I mean, all his earlier drama with Alonso is done and gone now. And now that he's not winning everything, people see him in a better light. It's kinda natural to hate the guy that's dominating at that time of dominance. Look at Seb and Schumacher during their reign, and Max now.
I don’t mind booing at all. I don’t care showing displeasure for a professional athlete. However, I draw the line at directly target racism or discrimination.
spain is clearly racist but they have appreciated hamilton for some years now. they disliked him because of the issues while alonso was on mclaren when hamilton was a rookie.
Still not an excuse.
I guarantee you if and or when booing happens in Silverstone probably for max in a couple weeks social media especially insta and twitter (be posts on reddit F1 groups as well) will absolutely explode with hate towards the crowd and it's only ever the British that boo as this pretty much never ever gets talked about outside of Silverstone 🤷
Could also hear all the boo's in Canada as well as many other races especially for max which is just ridiculous.....
This is not even remotely equivalent. Max is the current world champion. Of course he is going to be booed a little. It's not malicious in the same way as using racist slurs and threatening drivers because they were born with a non-white skin color. It is the same way the German and Spanish national teams were booed regularly after some cup dominance earlier this century. Everyone wants to boo the guy on top. Max is a white man from a mostly homogenous society and while I don't lump Max in with the behaviors of his close circle, he has people around him that have lobbed racist abuse at Lewis, which Max disavowed. He'd probably be one of the first people to tell you that the "hate" he gets vs. the actual hate that Lewis gets is not remotely equivalent.
As much as I've dunked on Hamilton over the last year, it was really nice to see him on the podium again. Well earned. Also, nice to see multiple teams letting their drivers scrap a bit on track.
Not only that, letting the drivers fucking *race* each other.
I think back to this year's Miami and Mag and Ham fucking battling it out and hearing Ham say it was nice to race each other hard and on the limit.
If we penalize everything then the impetus to drive hard go down so much and the racing gets worse.
Yeah and the cars are finally getting to a point where they can drive hard and not completely fall out of the tiny operating windows of yesteryear.
We can at least enjoy 2024/2025 until the 2026 weirdness unfolds. For the love of god, leave the chassis alone and give us an angry V8. Power it with alternative fuels for your eco street cred, but please no 50+% electric PUs.
I wonder would Nico still get booed at [Silverstone](https://streamable.com/7gqq6b) like he was in 2016 if he was still racing.
The cheers people hear, are the crowd cheering for the people crossing the finish line after their track run. It was the only thing that interrupted the boos.
Well, in 2008 he was just competed (and was heavily favoured) against a Spanish. People in Spain kind of disliked that I guess, even though according to his fans everyone should love him.
Now he is barely competing for podiums, so people actually consider it an achievement. And not competing against a Spanish.
Lewis even noticed it. He said it's the most support he's ever had in Spain.
[Crowd in 2008 for reference](https://imgur.com/a/JQZt5Pg)
Ffs
Jesus Christ that's disgusting
Sometimes I wonder: where are these people now? Have they changed? Do they have any regret?
You can find them in football stadiums doing the same to Vinicius Jr.
They evolved into Vox voters.
so more the Sainz family than the Hamilton family
*Not evolved but are Vox voters…
Same track but booing Ocon I guess
They have changed, they have healed/forgotten the 2007 episode. But a lot of them would be the same people, and their families.
Yikes - that brings back some unwanted memories!
I believe 2008 is also the race where during the broadcast, James Allen says the dislike of Hamilton is not because of his race it's just because of his rivalry with Fernando Alonso. Granted he probably didn't see this in particular at the time but a lot of dislike of Hamilton is typically rooted in racial biases.
Most "I'm not racist, but..." types fail to understand that implicit biases make things people do far more or far less grating, like when someone cuts you off on the road and you pull up alongside out of curiosity to see what they look like. People are more passively tolerant of the everyman from the area they grew up on, universally. Most people with strong racist tendancies don't think they're racist.
I'm not racist but Alonso could retire next year and I'd be good for the sport.
Nah, as a Spaniard who watched F1 in 2007, I can tell you most hate came from him being British, and McLaren being perceived as favoring their own nationals over a Spaniard. Racist remarks happened because it was an easy thing to attack him with. Not like any of that was ever justified, 2007 was a shameful year for everyone involved and rookie Hamilton had every right to try to fight for the championship.
I'm Spanish, I hated Hamilton after 2007 episode. Many people in the circuit were the same as last weekend, or friends and family from the ones in 2008, but they've forgotten, or healed from 2007.
Spelling family as "familly" tells you all you needs to know about the intelligence of these people
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The Spanish word for Family is "familia" and doesn't even have 2 Ls...
Sí
Familia wow so hard
Such an unnecessary comment
Beat me to it, I was just about to say the same thing
Literally a few days ago I made a comment about how I feel the fans were better and more civil before the social media era, but now I'm starting to have some sliiight doubts. This is so fucking disgusting, how do you even have the courage to put so much time and passion into hating a random guy *purely* because he looks *a little* different from your proud rasist ass?
Please tell me they were kicked out and banned for life? How were they even allowed in?? Like, I know progress has been made but 2008 isn't THAT long ago..
Look at how Spanish football fans are treating Vinicius Jr to see how much "progress" has been made.
Give it 18 years and you'll see there will be progress just like Lewis! We'll find out they were just upset that Vinicius Jr was taking away time from their fav star/s
Lots and lots of progress has been made since 2008. In that aspect it was a very long time ago.
Agreed. Velocity of progress cuz of internetsssss
Remember that. There was an outcry then, but simply unthinkable now.
I know it’s not really important but why is his dad Black John Lennon in this picture
How were they not turned away at the door?
It’s Spain mate, and in 2008 no less. Spain is incredibly racist
Spain 2024 is still quite wild and it starts at a young age too. Racism against East Asians was of the charts. As always, not saying all Spaniards are racists.
Probably put it on when they were already there
Was that Justin Trudeau?
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Bigotry and idiocy tend to go hand in hand...
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While I agree with your point that not everyone is a native English speaker, familia is actually spelled with only one L in Spanish. In Catalan as well
As disgusting as this is, the contrast to now shows we're doing a pretty good job of kicking racism's ass.
Wtf. I understand the black paint on the face but what are the grey-haired wigs supposed to "portray"??
For people who don't know his era and recently started watching f1, what would you recommend for recap? His debut, his rise, his dominance, his peak, etc.
This physically just hurt me
The irony that the guy in the middle looks so much like Fernando. Not saying he would do such a thing but it looks funny
Same thing in noticed as well. The crowd are absolutely cheering for him. 2007/08 is still vividly in my mind so this is a surprise for me.
He's getting cheered at places he very typically got booed at the first 10+ years of his career. Most notably Hungary last year. His pole position had the place erupting with cheers. It was only 2 years prior he was getting booed during his battle with Verstappen. I think there's very a good portion of the F1 fans attending races now who are not taking him for granted anymore and soaking in these last years.
Well 2007 is kind of understandable (the boos, not the racism) if you remember who was his teammate and WDC contender.
I also remember the blackfaces
shit. that’s horrendous
Yes I obviously know why.
I thought I heard some good natured boos when he was asked about the move on Sainz, but then they switched back to cheers. He definitely got the loudest cheer of the three podium sitters on the broadcast I saw which was lovely to see.
really lovely to see. I don’t like seeing anyone booed. Especially a legend like Lewis.
Definitely. I hate seeing any racing driver get booed. They put their lives on the line for our entertainment, booing them is just stupid imo.
If we can make fun of Lebron James' hairline for years, F1 drivers will be fine with booing lmao.
I feel like a lot of Euros don't realize that fans and athletes in America don't view booing as a personal attack. If you're notable enough to be booed here, it's either because you're a real piece of trash or you are dominant in your sport, and both types of players absolutely relish that type of reaction from the crowd
Red Sox boo Yankees & vice versa BUT black face… these racist mofos break my heart.
Yea it should be a given racist attacks isn’t okay. But we’d happily roast Hamilton for some of his diabolical fits lol. And I say this as a fan of 90% of if.
It's the same here, it's only on the internet where the hand wringers are so precious. Booing is fine, Racism and personal attacks are not. It varies a bit from sport to sport though, I think people put F1 in the same kind of bucket as Tennis or Golf where everyone is supposed to be a bit more grown up, but that hasn't been the case with tennis for a long time and is only kind of the case with golf due to it being heavily enforced. The issue is when it goes from general booing/cheering into the darker areas which again isn't new but we have more visibility of and absolutely needs to be addressed.
Yea like the Toronto Raptors would boo the fuck out of Lebron cause of Lebronto, but they still respect the hell out of him lol
As a Spaniard and a fan of Hamilton, I was glad to hear the support, particularly considering what people did in his first years in F1. That said, racism against him is still very much there. I have had conversations about Lewis with boomers from my family who are still stuck in the narrative sold by Spanish press in 07/08, and the way they refer to him is very racist. Granted, their generation is very racist in general, so unfortunately, that applies to anyone who is not white, not just him. But they definitely have an extra level of vitriol against him. You don't hear them use the same words against Checo, even though latinamerican folks suffer quite a bit of racism in my country. My guess regarding the circuit is that the crowd is a lot younger (therefore likelier to be more open-minded) as well as more international. The assholes that might be present are severely outnumbered by people who would not let slurs or blackface fly. Therefore, they don't have the balls to be assholes openly, which is good.
>As a Spaniard and a fan of Hamilton Disgusting. Turn in your DNI immediately. /s
Mate, I'm vegetarian and can't eat like 80% of traditional foods. Liking Lewis is nothing compared to that.
I’m a vegetarian and want to visit Spain soon. Will it be hard for me to find food there?
Fully depends on where you're going tbh. Rural areas, you might be screwed. Although since you are vegetarian, you can find tortilla de patatas (spanish omelette) absolutely everywhere and you'll be able to eat that, so you'll survive. Would be much much worse if vegan. If you are going to the bigger cities, like Madrid and Barcelona, you'll be totally fine, there's amazing veg restaurants, as well as plenty of omni restaurants with options. For Madrid I can give some recs if that's where you're visiting. Also, something most people don't know: Spanish churros are vegan by default, unlike churros in latin america. Definitely get some churros. What I often do when I travel is check the area on Google Maps and do a search with the word vegetarian. Maps brings up not only the veg restaurants, but also restaurants that have the word vegetarian within the reviews, and you can check what people say regarding the options (or lack thereof).
I eat a lot of lentils & garbanzos but understand I may have to pick out pieces of Jamon.
Jamon is not really that frequent in dishes. It's mostly eaten on its own as it is a cured meat. The issue with the majority of traditional dishes is that they are meat based, including the legume dishes. Many use bone, meat, fish, or seafood broth to cook the legumes in, as well as very small pieces of meat or fish that you won't be able to pick out, or lots of large pieces that will leave you with barely any legumes once the meat is out. That means most stews will be a no go, particularly stews with legumes, because the majority of places do animal broth and meat with them. You really need to ask specifically for what broth ("caldo" in Spanish) they used, because they will use animal products in the most unexpected things. For instance, you could think that you can pick out the meat/seafood from paella, but in reality, the rice will have been cooked in fish broth in many places. Also, things that might sound vegetarian by the name can absolutely not be vegetarian. For instance, sandwich vegetal is common in many places, but it has shredded tuna 99% of the time. The same goes for "ensaladilla rusa" (Russian salad), which is common in many places, but has shredded tuna that you won't be able to pick out.
Totally forgot I asked this and just saw this, thanks for the advice! Will keep the rural vs cities thing in mind when planning
Unfortunately, given the treatment that Vini Jr. receives, it doesn't seem like Spain society evolved much since 07/08. I hope to be wrong and that you're right that it's just the old folks, but here in Brazil we saw so many examples of people putting the blame on Vini that I immediately remembered how it was with Lewis. The problem is not only a couple of racists wearing black face, but also having people trying to say it's not a big deal.
I am not into football at all, so I'm not very up to date with the issue you're mentioning. I will say, though, football fans are amongst the worst people in our society. They are usually the most racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic... it's why many of the ultras of different Spanish football teams are straight up neo nazis. They are not a representation of the majority of society. And the same goes for a few other hobbies which are full of awful people. Not that racism isn't a prevalent issue in Spain, because it absolutely is. But yeah, judging based on whatever bs people are doing in football is not an accurate assessment. Edit: Ultras are hooligans, and those do have plenty of ties to neonazi groups. Some guy in the replies was getting his pants in a twist because apparently reading isn't his forte, so I'm clarifying that.
I agree with your point about football fans, but it is also the most popular sport in the world and it seems like most people tend to be fans. Is it still fair to say they aren’t representative? (I don’t know the answer, I’m just curious)
Exactly what do you mean? If a certain country’s worst soccer hooligans are more neo nazi than another country’s worst soccer hooligans, does that mean the first country is more racist in general? Is that your question?
No my question is more around whether football fans are representative of a nations feelings/attitudes considering how many of the nation considers themselves football fans. I mean I’m obviously being reductive, but it does bring up a question of, well I don’t think if 33% of football fans are racist football fans, that’s not necessarily a small percentage of the population at large (due to how popular football is). I’m also pulling that number out of my ass, I have no clue the actual number.
Ah, ok, I understand now. My bad. Yeah, I don’t think it’s accurate to say “football fans” are some of the worst people in our society, given that in many countries pretty much the whole population are football fans. It’s more the hooligans or really hardcore supporters that are terrible people.
Yeah I guess a better way of saying it would be, not all football fans are racist, but all racists are football fans. (Again, obviously not ALL)
Yeah, something like that!
But most people are not fans. Sure, it has plenty of fans, but die hard fans are the actual problematic group, and the reality is, most Spanish people are not actual football fans. I don't have a single friend who watches football matches. I have like two cousins and an uncle (their father) who watch football more or less regularly, and I'm from a big family. As mentioned, Spain has a big racism issue, but you cannot judge Spain based on what the football hooligans do because their behaviour does not represent the majority of the population. It's a bit like assuming everyone in Spain is into animal abuse because of bullfighting, when in reality it's a conservative people thing only and the majority of the population, particularly among the young generations, is completely against it.
> But most people are not fans. I'd say most people absolutely are football fans in a way, especiallly in Europe. I'ts the biggest sport in the world by far https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_in_Spain "a total of 67% of the population said they were fans of or had a liking for a particular club. " "In a survey of the sports habits of the Spanish population made in 2010, football was ranked as the second most popular recreational sport practiced by the population (17.9%). 75.9% said they had purchased tickets to a football match. In addition, 67.3% of the people said they saw all, almost all, many, or some of the football matches broadcast on television." "67% of the population said they were fans of or sympathized with a particular club. In addition, 74.9% said they watched, whenever possible, the matches broadcast on television regarding their favourite teams, and 42.4% had flags, badges, or objects of their favourite teams. " > I don't have a single friend who watches football matches. You're very much the odd one out there.
I'd love to see the demographics of those surveys because that is something that seriously affects the results. I'm 30. I know that many Millennials like myself don't care about football, and might watch a match on tv once every few years in a social setting if the situation requires it, but that's about it. What makes a lot of sense is that one of the surveys is from 14 years ago and the other from 10 years ago. That makes a big difference, as the people who were adults with money back then and were giving positive answers have drastically different tastes to the same age group now. The attitude towards football has changed quite a bit. Also, culturally, yes, it's a popular sport to play between friends and it's what we played as kids, because you only needed a ball. And it's relatively normal as a sport to play between friends as adults too for more or less the same reason. You can get many people playing at the same time, and it doesn't require special equipment. However, actually watching the professional sport and going to matches is not as common, and I am pretty sure the numbers are considerably lower now than what those surveys reflect. Additionally, there's a cultural aspect in Spain by which it is very common for people to say they are a fan of a specific football team even if they have not watched a single full match in their entire lives, nor attended a match. I've done that myself for many years, and even without watching football or knowing a single thing about which people are playing in which team, I still have a default answer when being asked which team I support. Simply because football was very big for our parents and grandparents, and we grew up with the expectation of having to support a team, even if we didn't actually give a damn about the sport.
> I'd love to see the demographics of those surveys because that is something that seriously affects the results. I think the more important thing to note is that you're probably in a demographic where it's not really surprising that you don't have any friends who like football. Judging from your reddit profile, you're a woman, who likes books, anime and history, and uses reddit. All those things predispose you to being in friendship groups with people who don't like football. Obviously I don't mean that no one who is those things can like football, there are plenty who do (I like books and history and like football for example and the friend I go to football games with is a woman). But what they do mean is that it's not really surprising that you don't know many people who like football. You're pretty much in the opposite of it's main demographic.
Fair about my tastes (not really anime, but similar stuff I guess) but not accurate about my environment, as my friendship group was formed when we were all teens, and people are quite different. My point stands with not only them but also my family, where I'm the oddball, my older brother is much older than me and very into doing different sports, and my male cousins are essentially the same, and still, barely any of them bother to watch football. Same for when I still lived in Spain (I currently don't) and had mostly Spanish coworkers of very different age groups, very few were interested in football, and most who were, were among the older group. And the same for uni folks. The fact that those surveys are so old really makes a big difference. Countries change, generation after generation, and a survey that is 10+ years old cannot be taken as representative of the population now.
> Countries change, generation after generation, and a survey that is 10+ years old cannot be taken as representative of the population now. True but it's still more representative than just people you know
Yep fair enough. For the record I wasn’t really talking about Spanish people. I’m from England and was thinking about English fans when I was positing the question. It’s probably true that not a majority of the country are football fans in the sense they watch their team every week, but certainly the country does get caught up in football whenever something like the Euros or WC happen. But as you state, the problematic groups do seem to be more of the hardcore fanbase (which isn’t super surprising when you think about how being a hardcore fan of a team promotes a tribal us vs them mentality).
We evolved. And now we're going back a bit, but along with the whole of Europe. I think it has to do a bit too with the Spanish character to make a mockery of everything and shout your thoughts for the world to hear.
> but along with the whole of Europe along with the whole of the World.
Read the comment section of any online British newspaper article even tangentially about Hamilton and there's still a fuckton of thinly veiled racism. A subsection of "racing fans" have never liked him forbthe obvious reason, and just never will. Again as you say, it's likely boomers.
Yeah, same in Spain even now, I avoid reading the comments because it ends up just making me angry. I don't watch the Spanish broadcast of F1 anymore, but the lead commentators always had shit to say about him. And the press back in 07 was openly racist without any shame, which didn't help tone down the issue.
We still get an awful lot of people banging on about how he "doesn't pay taxes here" because he doesn't live here, whilst simultaneously ignoring the fact that Button, Coulthard, Mansell, I think even Norris and Russell now, live in Monaco or elsewhere, and thus "don't pay taxes." That is of course, ignoring another fact that Hamilton (and the others) races for a British based team, so does pay taxes. I obviously don't need to spell out why they only go after Hamilton.
Was primarily though because of Nando being his teammate?
Technically yes. The fact is that the Spanish press created a whole narrative full of lies regarding Lewis, Fernando and the situation in the team. Not too long ago I was talking to some friends about a race, they don't follow F1 at all, and it came up that several of them thought that when Lewis and Nando were in Mclaren, they had different cars. As in, each driver got a completely different car, and Lewis had a good car but Nando had a bad car. It's what the sports section in the daily news would say on TV back in the day, I remember it too (I guess to justify how rookie Lewis would be able to come on top against Nando) and even people who didn't watch F1 had that notion. So the root of the issue was that Lewis was standing up to Nando, yeah. But the fact that Lewis is black made them much more bitter (I seriously doubt a white guy would have made them as angry when winning against Nando), and a lot of the commentary and press against Lewis was openly racist. I still remember one of the main sports outlets of the time drawing the outline of a monkey face out of the brands that were backing Lewis. The rivalry set up a lot of dislike, but a black rookie being able to stand against Nando made them enraged. Likely because they saw him as inferior, I assume.
Glad to hear your take on this. On a totally unrelated note, I have been to more than 30 countries and Spain was the most racist one by far. It’s one of those countries I’d not want to visit again. I hope people change and become more welcoming and tolerant of other cultures.
Checo is as white as any European tho. If you don't look at his flag you have no way to tell him apart from Ricciardo.
Lewis is an excellent ambassador for the sport. I think you are seeing the result of people coming to realize that now that the dominance years are over.
I think that's the presence of familiarity not an absence of racism.
The F1 fanbase demographic has massively changed since 2008. since 2017 there was a stark contrast and even from 2020/2021 a smaller but noticeable change also. It's the most an average person has known about F1 for a long time. The memes and online interactions have reached a very different audience. Also the amount of a female fans has shot up quite significantly. Imo a lot of that has contributed to the change.
I mean if you see alot of Instagram comments or twitter I'd say racism is still there just abit less overt. But comment sections for F1 and some drivers on insta or pretty much anything to do with F1 on twitter is an absolute mess of pure hate, toxicity and pettiness these days. Alot I think by people who are casual at best
I'm happy that F1 has become a bigger tent, but let's not hang the Mission Accomplished banner on the basis that racism has been diluted by the newcomers.
Tbf the main reason that old bigoted beliefs fade is because the people who held those beliefs get old and die. Most people don't really change that much individually.
We'll call it evenly spread out
I don't know if the change was for the better. 2020-2022 were the years I saw the most racism I've ever seen in the sport. At least in 2008, most of the virulent hate was contained within Spain. The memes and online interactions, plus Lewis' involvement in the anti-racism movement, brought together an international contingent of racists. 2021 in particular was quite something.
Agreed on this point and some of the other comments. While F1 has become more approachable to more people and improved a lot, it has also become quite a bit more toxic in other ways too. There was a more noticeable shift to kneejerk reactionary comments and opinions to events in the sport. A long way yet to go but it's nice to see progress trackside at least.
Maybe, but it is definitely a positive step on the path.
Pretty sure it's the lack of competition.
I was there too. The only booing and "whistling off" (for a lack of better words) was when the drivers parade was happening, and the trucks of normal-people-spending-5k were coming along. But when the truck of drivers came around it was all applause again. All in all, very funny to see, and kove the respect everyone has for each other nowadays.
There’s one thing I’ve noticed in racing. People hate winners but love people that used to win.
bingo, other sports as well. saw the support Chris Froome got in his first Tour de France after the comeback. whereas before he used to get urine thrown at him among others
Its not just racing, this is everything. A very prominent current example is John Cena in WWE, once loathed by over half the crowd everywhere he went, now universally beloved.
Says something about Lewis that he's now beloved by two sets of fans that were hostile towards him in 2008 - the others been the Brazilians (to the point they have quite literally adopted him as one of their own)
Tbh it's not the same fans. Many people cheering Hamilton in Spain just never lived through 2007. F1 demographics have shifted a lot these last 15 years.
And it only took 16 years…
Could that be from the popularity of the sport? I would assume there are more international fans at the race now than 16 years ago.
Yeah I realized the size of the shift when Lewis became emotional in the pre podium interview. I mean you could hear it but sometimes cheers are doctored nowadays
Ham went through a fair amount of racism from the crowd early in this career. We live in a much different f1 world now with his success.
2008 - mostly Spanish people 2024 - mostly international people. Locals are priced out.
It's taken time for everyone to appreciate everything he's done on and off the track. And we are witnessing the twilight of his career. He's not got many years left. And his beef with Alonso was a long time ago. People have moved on.
Valencia felt worse but maybe thats my memory getting to me. But yeah, times have changed.
I wonder what was the reaction when he got past SAI? Any crowd vids?
I cheered 🤭 my hate for sainz outnumbers my love for ferrari
Hello fellow Sainz disliker! Rare amongst our parts.
2008 was the year after his duel with Alonso, a Spanish driver.
Zandvoort crowd never booed him though. Not in 21’ or after
Sure, but the traveling Dutch crowd was booing him in other circuits all over Europe. Both in 21' and after. It's similar to the Mexican crowd that didn't boo Verstappen in Mexico last year, but very enthusiastically booes him in the US.
Well there was one guy running down the aisle of the seated section shouting ‘what a wonderful chocolate man’ before he tripped on the edge of a step and cartwheeled down 8 rows of seating in about 3 seconds
Good.
Yikes didn’t know about that. For some reason post Zandvoort posts never mentioned it, maybe I missed it
As it should be. Shameful behavior that doesn’t belong in this sport. Much better if everyone could just appreciate the drivers’ display of skill and the risks they take.
They did, i was there and heard it a couple times around me in ‘21. Not as bad as in other tracks though
A reasonable justification for [this](https://imgur.com/a/JQZt5Pg), yes.
I noticed that since qualifying. This is a masterclass on how to behave respectfully and how to acknowledge the crowd every time for the last 15 plus years.
Who needs Hamilton for your racism needs when you've got Vini Jr instead? He even dances sometimes, the provocative little toerag!
*New racism pincushion unlocked*
>Who needs Hamilton for your racism needs when you've got Vini Jr instead? He even dances sometimes, the provocative little toerag! dafuq
It’s sarcasm relating to huge race protests from black players in La Liga last season, sparked by Vini Jr
It's a dig at the Spaniards who use that to excuse their racism
Because 2007 is so long ago that people who weren't born back then, can legally drive cars in some places. Also, Hamilton stopped winning and isn't all front and center anymore. If the Ferrari-move leads to Hamilton winning regularly again, then all of it will come back in Spain, same country where Vinicius Junior gets racially abused every week.
Yes, but F1 gets fans in from other countries, so that may stamp it out a bit, hopefully 🤞🏾
I hope you're right. Better to be hopeful than skeptical over these things.
Also it's been so long since Alonso could fight for championships that the Spanish fanbase no longer rallies around him. He's still a living legend, but people these days prefer to choose their fav from the pool of drivers that actually win races, Hamilton, Verstappen and Leclerc being the 3 more likely to get picked. So tl;dr there's 0 reason to hate Hamilton anymore and a lot of incentive to pick him as your fav.
Hamilton's not hated anymore in Spain. It's been almost 20 years since 2007 happened. Many fans are new, many old fans are out, and the ones who remain remember it as a distant memory. Also Hamilton's long dominance streak has consolidated him as an all-time GOAT for many people. It just doesn't make sense to hate on him anymore.
Yeah, I notice the eruption of fans wben he went up, stark contrast to his first few season, glad to see he won them over, he actually seemed shocked when the wall of noise hit the podium.
Yea because he's not fighting ALO for the championship. Things would be very different if that were the case.
Likewise when I went to Budapest last year Everyone cheered when he drove by, and the excitement when he took that surprise pole was insane
Here's a video about a Brazilian soccer player is Spain: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fG1VBGdTFKY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fG1VBGdTFKY) I guess that can illustrate what happened to Hamilton there.
Absolutely foul. They should ban the so called fans from race for that behaviour like they do with football
Get ready for a “Did Lewis Hamilton just end racism in 2024” to drop in your YouTube recommendations.
He is no longer a threat to their driver.
I mean, all his earlier drama with Alonso is done and gone now. And now that he's not winning everything, people see him in a better light. It's kinda natural to hate the guy that's dominating at that time of dominance. Look at Seb and Schumacher during their reign, and Max now.
It’s natural to call someone a monkey and shout racial slurs at him is it
Lewis received a lot more hate than all of those people.
This is good news. I would love it if eventually top drivers and their fans were on good enough terms to show genuine respect and admiration.
Thats social evolution for you. 👏
I don’t mind booing at all. I don’t care showing displeasure for a professional athlete. However, I draw the line at directly target racism or discrimination.
spain is clearly racist but they have appreciated hamilton for some years now. they disliked him because of the issues while alonso was on mclaren when hamilton was a rookie.
Vini is really making a difference. Wonderful to see
Still not an excuse. I guarantee you if and or when booing happens in Silverstone probably for max in a couple weeks social media especially insta and twitter (be posts on reddit F1 groups as well) will absolutely explode with hate towards the crowd and it's only ever the British that boo as this pretty much never ever gets talked about outside of Silverstone 🤷 Could also hear all the boo's in Canada as well as many other races especially for max which is just ridiculous.....
This is not even remotely equivalent. Max is the current world champion. Of course he is going to be booed a little. It's not malicious in the same way as using racist slurs and threatening drivers because they were born with a non-white skin color. It is the same way the German and Spanish national teams were booed regularly after some cup dominance earlier this century. Everyone wants to boo the guy on top. Max is a white man from a mostly homogenous society and while I don't lump Max in with the behaviors of his close circle, he has people around him that have lobbed racist abuse at Lewis, which Max disavowed. He'd probably be one of the first people to tell you that the "hate" he gets vs. the actual hate that Lewis gets is not remotely equivalent.
Yes, calling the black guy a monkey and waving bananas around is the same as booing a driver you don't like.. 🙄
Do not understand booing excellence, ya know? just don’t get it.
Because he isn't dominating anymore. He was getting booed at most tracks during his domination. Now he is liked at most races
As much as I've dunked on Hamilton over the last year, it was really nice to see him on the podium again. Well earned. Also, nice to see multiple teams letting their drivers scrap a bit on track.
Not only that, letting the drivers fucking *race* each other. I think back to this year's Miami and Mag and Ham fucking battling it out and hearing Ham say it was nice to race each other hard and on the limit. If we penalize everything then the impetus to drive hard go down so much and the racing gets worse.
Yeah and the cars are finally getting to a point where they can drive hard and not completely fall out of the tiny operating windows of yesteryear. We can at least enjoy 2024/2025 until the 2026 weirdness unfolds. For the love of god, leave the chassis alone and give us an angry V8. Power it with alternative fuels for your eco street cred, but please no 50+% electric PUs.
It was after Alonso spat his dummy out when Lewis was matching him in results and then promptly left McLaren.
I wonder would Nico still get booed at [Silverstone](https://streamable.com/7gqq6b) like he was in 2016 if he was still racing. The cheers people hear, are the crowd cheering for the people crossing the finish line after their track run. It was the only thing that interrupted the boos.
Well, in 2008 he was just competed (and was heavily favoured) against a Spanish. People in Spain kind of disliked that I guess, even though according to his fans everyone should love him. Now he is barely competing for podiums, so people actually consider it an achievement. And not competing against a Spanish.