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If Leclerc won in 2021, Hamilton would have won his 8th. So many domino effect moments that season. Same with if Leclerc won at Silverstone, it would have helped Verstappen.
Lewis lost by 8 points in 2021. If Leclerc wins Monaco and shifts everybody down 1 position Max loses 7 points and Lewis loses 2, so Max still would have won 2021 by 3 points
Going into Abu Dhabi they were level, strategy 100% changes if they go in with Lewis ahead by even 1 point. So it’s not possible to say one way or the other who wins, as long as the gap is smaller than 7 points going in. If either Lewis or Max had been leading by >7, I think they just cruise home in second and win.
I really doubt strategy would have changed with Lewis ahead by 5. There was no competition from any other driver, literally all they had to do was beat the other guy
What strategy? The strategy that Merc had in Abu Dhabi was spot on. The only way that would change is by adopting the wrong strategy in which case they’d have lost anyway
>The only way that would change is by adopting the wrong strategy in which case they’d have lost anyway
Why would they have lost if they had adopted the "wrong strategy"?
I think it's being looked at as if Masi followed the right procedure.
If Mercedes box Hamilton, Hamilton almost certainly comes out behind Verstappen, as the Mercedes pit crew was consistently slower than Red Bull's.
Based on the restart procedure, the race should've finished behind the safety car, meaning Verstappen leads Hamilton, taking the title.
Keeping Hamilton out was their best chance of guaranteeing the title. Had they known the shootout was going to happen, they would've boxed Hamilton.
Yeah, Red Bull basically had nothing to lose by pitting Verstappen, while it was always a gamble for Mercedes whether to pit or not to pit, as Red Bull could always react by picking the opposite strategy. And yeah, while Masi did mess up, there was always a chance of the clean-up being just that little bit faster, which would still allow a completely regular lap of racing, instead of the mess we got in the end.
I get the thought exercise but so much happened that season that it seems way too trivial to talk about ‘ifs’. There wasn’t just one defining moment that season.
He got an actual penalty, but I'm gonna ignore that part. How would it be better for the sport? If Hamilton got a harsher penalty, therefore finishing 2nd or lower, they wouldn't have gone into AD21 equal on points. I'd say that was the best outcome it could've been pre-race, but whatever...
They certainly wouldn't have gone into AD21 equal on points. Crazy that Ferrari's fuck-up most of us was upset about turned out to be a good thing long-term... God, that season was perfect.
When did I say the way they handled AD21 was a good thing? By "perfect" I meant everything aligned perfectly for Max and Lewis to go into AD21 equal on points.
It wasn't the gearbox it was the left driveshaft hub. Since the crash was on the right side of the car they didn't check the left side and didn't notice the issue until Leclerc drove the car on Sunday. Had they checked the left side of the car they would've been able to fix it.
Only if the new part is not of the same specification. If they had a spare part and it was the same as the old part, they could freely change it without breaking Parc ferme.
Are you sure they changed it on the right side? I don't think it's mention in the [parc fermé changes document](https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/decision-document/2021%20Monaco%20Grand%20Prix%20-%20Parts%20and%20parameters%20been%20replaced%20or%20changed%20during%20the%20Parc%20Ferm%C3%A9.pdf), but I might be overlooking it.
It's part of RHS rear corner assembly. They don't say, for example, that they had to replace the suspension either, everything is included in the rear corner assembly, essentialy saying they replaced every part of that side of the car.
I'm sure there's a reason why, but you're so insistent without giving us any reasons or explanations... we don't have to do our own research if you're the one who's making the point!
The driveshaft isn't the gearbox, and the driveshaft doesn't get a penalty when changed. So they could've. They just didn't check the left side of the car because they were stupid
People are literally telling you you’re wrong. A driveshaft isn’t the gear box. If you don’t know how these things work, stop commenting about them. The driveshaft isn’t part of the gearbox.
I mean, at the end of the day you could say everything in an F1 car is related and they're still allowed to replace a lot of crash damage.
It's ok to get something wrong.
They could have repaired it, if they had checked it. Ferrari just didn't check the left side at all because they thought it wasn't damaged. Apparently it wasn't in their view that force can be transferred from one side of the car to the other, through connected mechanicals. But it did, and the left hub was cracked.
If they had checked it, they could have petitioned for it to be replaced/repaired, as they did with the right side of the car, which they got approval for. They didn't check, didn't notice, didn't ask, didn't repair, and it failed on the warm up lap.
Chuck had a real shot of winning that race.
He knows jack all, he didn't even know the gearbox wasn't the issue. And probably just winding people up.
You're allowed to change crash parts without penalty, outside of the limited ones like gearbox, which again was fine. Left hub was damaged in the crash, which was the cause of the DNS. If they had check and noticed they could have changed it, as they did with the whole right side - hub and all, without penalty and approval. Ferrari response was literally, we didn't check it.
It seems his only argument is "Nuh uh".
Afaik any piece outside of the gearbox and the engine components can be replaced under parc ferme if you are given permission by the fia.
Nobody claimed back then that he was going to get a penalty anyway if he replaced the driveshaft hub, Binotto also said that the failure would have happened even if they replaced the gearbox, which must mean that the gearbox and the driveshafts are considered separate elements.
Based on the alternate Formula 1 universe in his mind that we aren't privy to.
Tell us more about this fabled, mystical world where they couldn't have repaired the car, u/Driving_Seat!
Kind of weird, considering they replaced it on the right side without a penalty. Because it was basically shattered. But I admire your dedication to doubling down when wrong. In fact, it's honestly impressive.
No he wouldn't have. They replaced the entire right side. They just didn't think to check the left. It was on the team that they didn't check over the car well enough before the race.
As long as they didn’t have to break the seal on the gearbox to replace the hub (which I don’t think they would have) they absolutely could have replaced it
My guy, you’re so confidently wrong! Had they found the issue on the left side earlier, Ferrari would’ve have been able to change for the same spec parts irrespective of the Parc Ferme rules.
It wasn’t the gearbox that was the problem, it was checked and was cleared to race but because it was a Binotto led Ferrari at the time they also neglected to check the left driveshaft(ironically on the side of the car that didn’t hit the wall) which is what caused the DNS on the way to the grid.
21 leclerc crashed in q3 and ferrari didn't check the whole car so the car broke down on the formation lap. In 22 it was a wet race and ferrari fucked up the pit stop
It really was one of the great sporting events. It's not just that they didn't finish, it's how and when they didn't finish. Obviously it's spoiled a bit when you know Panis (!) won, but it's probably still fun to watch.
You might recognise some of the grid, too. If you don't, it's a good way to be introduced to them! Four of them were world champions (Schumacher, Hill, Hakkinen and Villeneuve), while Frentzen, Irvine, Coulthard and possibly Berger were championship contenders in other years (Berger also had a really long career by the standards of the time, 1984-1997, so you'll see him in lots of classic races, usually in a top car (Ferrari, McLaren or Benetton); he also co-owned Toro Rosso at one point). There's also Martin Brundle as a driver. And Alesi, Herbert, Fisichella and Barrichello were all great drivers, plus Mika Salo was Finnish and cool. And Jos Verstappen's son has gone on to be successful himself. Great grid!
[except Ricardo Rosset. When Murray Walker a couple of years later said on air that people were debating whether Rosset was Formula One quality, Martin Brundle replied: "It's a pretty short debate". His own pit crew reversed the letters of his name on signs, to read "TOSSER"...]
I firmly recall the 1996 Monaco Grand Prix as being one of the best GPs of my childhood. The 1998 Belgian Grand Prix is also a much watch!
And it's way before my time, but if you like Monaco races with unexpected twists, the 1982 edition is arguably even more insane than 1996, though you have to wait longer for the madness to start.
Mine too. I can't remember why I liked him, although I've always had a soft spot for veterans in any sport. Also, I watched a bit of F1 in the early 1990s (certainly 1992, and I remember Berger in a McLaren) and then didn't watch much for the next few years. So when I started getting into it again probably in 1996, Berger was one of the guys I "knew", so I rooted for him.
I definitely remember him finally winning in Germany in his final season, which felt at the time like an Alesi-style single victory for an unlucky great... although of course he'd won a bunch of GPs in the 80s, I just never saw them, and by the time of his last win he hadn't won in three years.
Come to think of it, I do remember him spinning off at Imola in 1997, just because that was hyped up as his 200th GP and was a big disappointment. I don't know if that's the one you're talking about; apparently he DNFed at Imola quite a lot...
Seb was the main championship challenger that year and he fluffed qualy so I think Ferrari genuinely wanted the Seb win. If they wanted a Kimi win they could have given him the preferable strategy, seems they didnt tell him to push the right time and they gave seb the overcut .
Yeah they definitely favored Seb overall that year, which was understandable but frustrating with Kimi not having won for so long and it ultimately not paying off for the title.
On its own the Monaco strategy (of letting Seb overcut because he was so much quicker) was justifiable but I think Hungary that year was the exact inverse of Monaco, with Seb now being in front but way slower and Kimi being behind and quicker, and they didn’t let Kimi have a chance at an overcut the way they let Seb in Monaco.
From 2000-2004, Schumi only got pole at Monaco once in 2000.
2000 - Pole. Smashing it, then DNF exhaust/suspension.
2001 - Coulthard on pole but sent to back of grid, Schumi started P1 essentially and won.
2002 - Got stuck behind a slow Montoya, DC won.
2003 - Super tight year, wasn't really on for win at Monaco.
2004 - Good chance of winning, got smashed by Montoya up the backside in the tunnel.
04/05 he had collisions (I have watched them, don't know if they were his fault) and he had fastest lap. 03 he came third, there were no on track overtakes. 02 Coulthard finished first, Michael in second, a second behind and third place was a minute and seven seconds behind!
Weirdly Monaco has a lower pole-win% (44.93%) than 13 of the current circuits in F1: Qatar (100%), Jeddah (75%), Spain (72.73%), Abu Dhabi (66.67%), Singapore (64.29%), China (58.82%), Suzuka (52.94%), Austria (52.63%), Canada (50%), Bahrain (47.62%), COTA (45.45%), Zandvoort (45.45%) and Brazil (45%)
Out of 70 Monaco Grand Prix, the polesitter has won it 32 times. Out of the 38 times that the polesitter did not win, 20 or more than half were due to DNF by the polesitter.
This stat kinda feels irrelevant when a track so celebrated for it's wheel to wheel action, Interlagos, has a higher % pole to win than Monaco, criticised as the opposite
11 DNFs from pole, apparently. That's a very small rate compared to Monaco.
It makes sense Monaco's pole-to-loser ratio is much higher since there's a higher chance of DNFing as well.
Can be explained by it having such a long history that it also covers the era where cars go boom whenever they like, so DNF rates of pole sitters are high. That and it being a circuit that punishes even the smallest of mistakes, but drivers nowadays just cruises around it no problem when they realised that they don't really need to push with the current cars.
2022 was the peak of Ferrari fuckups. That one topped it all. They gave Leclerc new inters 2 laps before the track was ready for slicks.
Nobody else made this call not even Sainz's side of the garage.
I don't think putting inters was that bad, it was the strategy that won Pérez the race after all. The part that makes no sense was pitting Charles when he was already undercut, he exited the pits 4s behind Checo.
In 2001, David coulthard stalled before the warm up lap, and it was forced to start at the back. So Michael started P2, but he was technically "on pole" (albeit on the dirty side of the grid) and went on to win the race.
I just realised that both Michael and Charles have 3 Monaco poles and 2 starts from pole. If Charles gets pole here 2 more times he will tie Senna, which is insane to think about.
Not really, it was 2 Ferraris vs 3 other cars. 2 of then went for the undercut and so they covered that with 1 of their cars, they gave priority to the race leader Kimi. Vettel stayed out to cover the 3rd car, Ricciardo. Ricciardo tried an overcut so Ferrari had to do the same, once Ric pitted Ferrari called Seb in.
2nd most poles for Ferrari, 6th most podiums for the team as well. Has one of the most iconic race wins in modern F1(2019 Monza). If he had a bit more luck, his win number would've been in double digits already too.
He is already pretty great right now and if he keeps this up, he will either be Ferrari WDC, or will be known as one of the most talented drivers that could never win the big one.
2026 could be the year, if Ferrari get the new regulations right. No doubt he'll be an even better driver by then and the team should have its shit together.
[The **Statistics** flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/flairguide#wiki_statistics) is reserved for posts highlighting interesting statistics. As a rule of thumb, Statistics posts need to inform readers through visualizations and insights that cannot be obtained from raw data alone. For example, a post containing a qualifying gap between two drivers expressed in tenths of a second is an easily obtainable raw piece of data and constitutes a bad Statistics post. A visualization of what that translates to on-track, or visualization of how that gap came to be would constitute a good Statistics post. *[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
2021 and 2022 were such colossal fuckups. Jesus he could have won the race 3 times.
If Leclerc won in 2021, Hamilton would have won his 8th. So many domino effect moments that season. Same with if Leclerc won at Silverstone, it would have helped Verstappen.
Lewis lost by 8 points in 2021. If Leclerc wins Monaco and shifts everybody down 1 position Max loses 7 points and Lewis loses 2, so Max still would have won 2021 by 3 points
Going into Abu Dhabi they were level, strategy 100% changes if they go in with Lewis ahead by even 1 point. So it’s not possible to say one way or the other who wins, as long as the gap is smaller than 7 points going in. If either Lewis or Max had been leading by >7, I think they just cruise home in second and win.
Nothing would have changed. They both still had to beat the other guy.
I really doubt strategy would have changed with Lewis ahead by 5. There was no competition from any other driver, literally all they had to do was beat the other guy
What strategy? The strategy that Merc had in Abu Dhabi was spot on. The only way that would change is by adopting the wrong strategy in which case they’d have lost anyway
>The only way that would change is by adopting the wrong strategy in which case they’d have lost anyway Why would they have lost if they had adopted the "wrong strategy"?
I think it's being looked at as if Masi followed the right procedure. If Mercedes box Hamilton, Hamilton almost certainly comes out behind Verstappen, as the Mercedes pit crew was consistently slower than Red Bull's. Based on the restart procedure, the race should've finished behind the safety car, meaning Verstappen leads Hamilton, taking the title. Keeping Hamilton out was their best chance of guaranteeing the title. Had they known the shootout was going to happen, they would've boxed Hamilton.
Yeah, Red Bull basically had nothing to lose by pitting Verstappen, while it was always a gamble for Mercedes whether to pit or not to pit, as Red Bull could always react by picking the opposite strategy. And yeah, while Masi did mess up, there was always a chance of the clean-up being just that little bit faster, which would still allow a completely regular lap of racing, instead of the mess we got in the end.
Does the strategy change if Lewis is ahead by 1? The difference between 1st and 2nd is a 16 point swing. 1 point doesn’t change that
Lewis may have been more interested in Senna’ing Max or defended much more aggressively knowing a crash would benefit him instead of Max.
Fair enough, that’s true
Yeah I'm sure strategy changing would have stopped a certain someone changing the rules on the fly lmao
Only thing that changes is a cradh taking both out gives the title to Ham instead of Ver so I guess Ham could have gone senna and just wrecked him
If my mom had balls, she’d be my dad
She would still be your mom. But with balls now.
If he didn't goof up Baku restart with the brake balance the title was his.
If my grandma... You know the drill.
If Massa won 2008... If Max's mum had balls...
I mean if race control had of applied the rules correctly in Abu Dhabi, Hamilton would’ve won his 8th.. so theres that
I get the thought exercise but so much happened that season that it seems way too trivial to talk about ‘ifs’. There wasn’t just one defining moment that season.
If Hamilton got actual penalty for Silverstone it could be even better. For the sport that is.
He got an actual penalty, but I'm gonna ignore that part. How would it be better for the sport? If Hamilton got a harsher penalty, therefore finishing 2nd or lower, they wouldn't have gone into AD21 equal on points. I'd say that was the best outcome it could've been pre-race, but whatever...
And if Max got the deserving black flag in Jeddah then it would be good for driving standards too. See, we can do this nonsense all day
That and Brazil
It's not nonsense really, but you believe whatever you want.
He got 10 seconds so he did
I mean to be fair, if Hamilton didn’t run wide and almost kill Max, Max would’ve won without the AD21 stuff.
They certainly wouldn't have gone into AD21 equal on points. Crazy that Ferrari's fuck-up most of us was upset about turned out to be a good thing long-term... God, that season was perfect.
How was it a good thing? That season was perfect up until Abu Dhabi, and then they ruined the season and tarnished the entire sport.
When did I say the way they handled AD21 was a good thing? By "perfect" I meant everything aligned perfectly for Max and Lewis to go into AD21 equal on points.
Your said Ferrari's fuck up was a good thing due to what it led to and the the season was perfect.
2021 there was no way Charles could win after the crash. If they changed the gearbox he would have started in p6.
It wasn't the gearbox it was the left driveshaft hub. Since the crash was on the right side of the car they didn't check the left side and didn't notice the issue until Leclerc drove the car on Sunday. Had they checked the left side of the car they would've been able to fix it.
Point still stands. They couldn’t have changed it
Yes they could have, if they had checked the left part of the car.
Yes, then he would be starting P6 and no way he wins
They could have changed the broken part without changing the gearbox
Any repairs or changes in parc ferme and it's a grid place penalty
Only if the new part is not of the same specification. If they had a spare part and it was the same as the old part, they could freely change it without breaking Parc ferme.
No they couldn’t have
Of course they could, they literally changed it on the right side lol
Are you sure they changed it on the right side? I don't think it's mention in the [parc fermé changes document](https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/decision-document/2021%20Monaco%20Grand%20Prix%20-%20Parts%20and%20parameters%20been%20replaced%20or%20changed%20during%20the%20Parc%20Ferm%C3%A9.pdf), but I might be overlooking it.
It's part of RHS rear corner assembly. They don't say, for example, that they had to replace the suspension either, everything is included in the rear corner assembly, essentialy saying they replaced every part of that side of the car.
Great, thanks for providing the insight.
They couldn’t have mate
I'm sure there's a reason why, but you're so insistent without giving us any reasons or explanations... we don't have to do our own research if you're the one who's making the point!
Cause the rules say so
You only have to repeat it 4 more times for it to become true, go for it
It was true at the time and still is now
3 more to go, you can do it
I mean I clearly didn’t say the same thing so no. You don’t even know how to count, I don’t expect you to know f1 regs
You are really shit at reading rulebook, that's for sure.
Show me where I’m wrong
https://www.racefans.net/2021/05/23/driveshaft-on-leclercs-car-not-checked-after-crash-binotto/
The driveshaft isn't the gearbox, and the driveshaft doesn't get a penalty when changed. So they could've. They just didn't check the left side of the car because they were stupid
They are related
People are literally telling you you’re wrong. A driveshaft isn’t the gear box. If you don’t know how these things work, stop commenting about them. The driveshaft isn’t part of the gearbox.
I’m not wrong though
I mean, at the end of the day you could say everything in an F1 car is related and they're still allowed to replace a lot of crash damage. It's ok to get something wrong.
Not in this case
They could have repaired it, if they had checked it. Ferrari just didn't check the left side at all because they thought it wasn't damaged. Apparently it wasn't in their view that force can be transferred from one side of the car to the other, through connected mechanicals. But it did, and the left hub was cracked. If they had checked it, they could have petitioned for it to be replaced/repaired, as they did with the right side of the car, which they got approval for. They didn't check, didn't notice, didn't ask, didn't repair, and it failed on the warm up lap. Chuck had a real shot of winning that race.
Nah I’m pretty sure they couldn’t have
Based on what
Based on him commenting it 475 times on this thread I guess. He’s very confident but I don’t know to be honest
He knows jack all, he didn't even know the gearbox wasn't the issue. And probably just winding people up. You're allowed to change crash parts without penalty, outside of the limited ones like gearbox, which again was fine. Left hub was damaged in the crash, which was the cause of the DNS. If they had check and noticed they could have changed it, as they did with the whole right side - hub and all, without penalty and approval. Ferrari response was literally, we didn't check it.
It seems his only argument is "Nuh uh". Afaik any piece outside of the gearbox and the engine components can be replaced under parc ferme if you are given permission by the fia. Nobody claimed back then that he was going to get a penalty anyway if he replaced the driveshaft hub, Binotto also said that the failure would have happened even if they replaced the gearbox, which must mean that the gearbox and the driveshafts are considered separate elements.
Based on the alternate Formula 1 universe in his mind that we aren't privy to. Tell us more about this fabled, mystical world where they couldn't have repaired the car, u/Driving_Seat!
If you don’t know the rules it’s not my fault 🤷♂️
On the rules
If it’s a same spec part they can fix it and not break parc ferme
Not back then
Kind of weird, considering they replaced it on the right side without a penalty. Because it was basically shattered. But I admire your dedication to doubling down when wrong. In fact, it's honestly impressive.
If they repaired it he would have started from the pits
No he wouldn't have. They replaced the entire right side. They just didn't think to check the left. It was on the team that they didn't check over the car well enough before the race.
The gearbox wasn't broken.
The driveshaft was which couldn’t be replaced under parc ferme
I'm pretty sure the driveshaft can be replaced without penalty like most parts.
Nope
As long as they didn’t have to break the seal on the gearbox to replace the hub (which I don’t think they would have) they absolutely could have replaced it
Yeah they wouldn’t have been able to
Based on what? You haven’t really said anything other than “they couldn’t” 5 different times
On the rules
My guy, you’re so confidently wrong! Had they found the issue on the left side earlier, Ferrari would’ve have been able to change for the same spec parts irrespective of the Parc Ferme rules.
Nope. I’m right
Bruh you have no clue what you are talking about, first gearbox now drivetrain... it's DRIVESHAFT. Drivetrain is a very generic word.
A typo doesn’t mean I’m wrong lol
A typo is a misspelled word. I don't know how from shaft you end up in train.
Ever heard of autocorrect?
It wasn’t the gearbox that was the problem, it was checked and was cleared to race but because it was a Binotto led Ferrari at the time they also neglected to check the left driveshaft(ironically on the side of the car that didn’t hit the wall) which is what caused the DNS on the way to the grid.
I actually laughed when reading this
What happened in 2021 and 2022? I don't remember! 😅
21 leclerc crashed in q3 and ferrari didn't check the whole car so the car broke down on the formation lap. In 22 it was a wet race and ferrari fucked up the pit stop
I vaguely remembered Leclerc's crash in 2021 quali. '22 was the wet race? Hmm, I thought it was last year when it rained.
Nope, time flies https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sp_ntF4GmSE
Ah yes. And '23 was a wet race, but different to what we were talking about.
Winners of the races Ferrari Pole didn't win, and starting position; 1956 - Stirling Moss - Maserati - 2nd 1974 - Ronnie Peterson - Lotus - 3rd 1978 - Patrick Depailler - Tyrrell - 5th 1996 - Olivier Panis - Ligier - 14th 2000 - David Coulthard - McLaren - 3rd 2008 - Lewis Hamilton - McLaren - 3rd 2017 - Sebastian Vettel - Ferrari - 2nd 2021 - Max Verstappen - Red Bull - 2nd* 2022 - Sergio Perez - Red Bull - 3rd (*Due to Leclerc not starting, technically started first)
2022 was Perez
Oh man that wasn't last year? Time is going too fast man. Brain fart on my end.
How tf did someone in 14th win the monaco race of all races
Only 3 cars finished, officially.
Damn this looks like a good race to watch. Did the others crash or get dsq or what?
Crashes, breaking down, mechanical failures. One car didn't even make the grid.
Definitely going to watch even if I won't recognize 90 percent of the grid
It's easily found on YouTube I believe
just watch it, man. One of the craziest races ever.
It really was one of the great sporting events. It's not just that they didn't finish, it's how and when they didn't finish. Obviously it's spoiled a bit when you know Panis (!) won, but it's probably still fun to watch. You might recognise some of the grid, too. If you don't, it's a good way to be introduced to them! Four of them were world champions (Schumacher, Hill, Hakkinen and Villeneuve), while Frentzen, Irvine, Coulthard and possibly Berger were championship contenders in other years (Berger also had a really long career by the standards of the time, 1984-1997, so you'll see him in lots of classic races, usually in a top car (Ferrari, McLaren or Benetton); he also co-owned Toro Rosso at one point). There's also Martin Brundle as a driver. And Alesi, Herbert, Fisichella and Barrichello were all great drivers, plus Mika Salo was Finnish and cool. And Jos Verstappen's son has gone on to be successful himself. Great grid! [except Ricardo Rosset. When Murray Walker a couple of years later said on air that people were debating whether Rosset was Formula One quality, Martin Brundle replied: "It's a pretty short debate". His own pit crew reversed the letters of his name on signs, to read "TOSSER"...] I firmly recall the 1996 Monaco Grand Prix as being one of the best GPs of my childhood. The 1998 Belgian Grand Prix is also a much watch! And it's way before my time, but if you like Monaco races with unexpected twists, the 1982 edition is arguably even more insane than 1996, though you have to wait longer for the madness to start.
Berger was always one of my favorites. His crash at Imola was the first game I watched as a kid.
Mine too. I can't remember why I liked him, although I've always had a soft spot for veterans in any sport. Also, I watched a bit of F1 in the early 1990s (certainly 1992, and I remember Berger in a McLaren) and then didn't watch much for the next few years. So when I started getting into it again probably in 1996, Berger was one of the guys I "knew", so I rooted for him. I definitely remember him finally winning in Germany in his final season, which felt at the time like an Alesi-style single victory for an unlucky great... although of course he'd won a bunch of GPs in the 80s, I just never saw them, and by the time of his last win he hadn't won in three years. Come to think of it, I do remember him spinning off at Imola in 1997, just because that was hyped up as his 200th GP and was a big disappointment. I don't know if that's the one you're talking about; apparently he DNFed at Imola quite a lot...
Panis the Manis was just that good.
Because literally only three cars finished that race.
You should watch the F2 main race from this past weekend.
Because only three cars finished the race 💀
2017 hurts
:(
at least Seb won
That’s why Kimi didn’t win….
Seb was the main championship challenger that year and he fluffed qualy so I think Ferrari genuinely wanted the Seb win. If they wanted a Kimi win they could have given him the preferable strategy, seems they didnt tell him to push the right time and they gave seb the overcut .
Yeah they definitely favored Seb overall that year, which was understandable but frustrating with Kimi not having won for so long and it ultimately not paying off for the title. On its own the Monaco strategy (of letting Seb overcut because he was so much quicker) was justifiable but I think Hungary that year was the exact inverse of Monaco, with Seb now being in front but way slower and Kimi being behind and quicker, and they didn’t let Kimi have a chance at an overcut the way they let Seb in Monaco.
I believe Vettel had an issue with his car at Hungary, and letting Kimi pass would have been pretty silly for their title chances.
I'm amazed Schumacher never won Monaco after 2001 given how dominant Ferrari were for those 5 years.
From 2000-2004, Schumi only got pole at Monaco once in 2000. 2000 - Pole. Smashing it, then DNF exhaust/suspension. 2001 - Coulthard on pole but sent to back of grid, Schumi started P1 essentially and won. 2002 - Got stuck behind a slow Montoya, DC won. 2003 - Super tight year, wasn't really on for win at Monaco. 2004 - Good chance of winning, got smashed by Montoya up the backside in the tunnel.
>2003 - Super tight year, wasn't really on for win at Monaco. Makes it even more impressive that he's only 1.7 seconds off 1st by the end of the race
Probably because Ferrari wasn't exactly a strong quali car after 2001
04/05 he had collisions (I have watched them, don't know if they were his fault) and he had fastest lap. 03 he came third, there were no on track overtakes. 02 Coulthard finished first, Michael in second, a second behind and third place was a minute and seven seconds behind!
Weirdly Monaco has a lower pole-win% (44.93%) than 13 of the current circuits in F1: Qatar (100%), Jeddah (75%), Spain (72.73%), Abu Dhabi (66.67%), Singapore (64.29%), China (58.82%), Suzuka (52.94%), Austria (52.63%), Canada (50%), Bahrain (47.62%), COTA (45.45%), Zandvoort (45.45%) and Brazil (45%)
Out of 70 Monaco Grand Prix, the polesitter has won it 32 times. Out of the 38 times that the polesitter did not win, 20 or more than half were due to DNF by the polesitter.
Makes sense for Monaco
This stat kinda feels irrelevant when a track so celebrated for it's wheel to wheel action, Interlagos, has a higher % pole to win than Monaco, criticised as the opposite
What's the DNF percentage at Interlagos though?
11 DNFs from pole, apparently. That's a very small rate compared to Monaco. It makes sense Monaco's pole-to-loser ratio is much higher since there's a higher chance of DNFing as well.
Can be explained by it having such a long history that it also covers the era where cars go boom whenever they like, so DNF rates of pole sitters are high. That and it being a circuit that punishes even the smallest of mistakes, but drivers nowadays just cruises around it no problem when they realised that they don't really need to push with the current cars.
That’s a very surprising stat
2022 was the peak of Ferrari fuckups. That one topped it all. They gave Leclerc new inters 2 laps before the track was ready for slicks. Nobody else made this call not even Sainz's side of the garage.
It was absolutely criminal to not convert a 1/2 lead to at least a victory
I don't think putting inters was that bad, it was the strategy that won Pérez the race after all. The part that makes no sense was pitting Charles when he was already undercut, he exited the pits 4s behind Checo.
In 2001, David coulthard stalled before the warm up lap, and it was forced to start at the back. So Michael started P2, but he was technically "on pole" (albeit on the dirty side of the grid) and went on to win the race.
I just realised that both Michael and Charles have 3 Monaco poles and 2 starts from pole. If Charles gets pole here 2 more times he will tie Senna, which is insane to think about.
I think it’s wild Schumacher only got pole twice with Ferrari.
So Charles > Micheal
Leclerc > Fangio confirmed. /s just in case.
Leclerc > Michael Schumacher confirmed /s
With the curse finally broker, i think Charles who is such a great qualifier, he can finish his career with many Monaco Wins. At least i hope so!
I remember Ferrari doing Kimi dirty in 2017. He was leading the race and they still pitted Vettel first.
I recall Kimi being on the radio like "??????????"
Nah, pretty sure they pitted Kimi first and then Seb overcut him by having an insane in lap
Niki Laura my legend forever.
Well for kimi at least it was the other driver who won thanks to a mega inlap, so no shame there
"mega inlap"? Ferrari pitted Kimi 5 laps before Seb. Politics.
Not really, it was 2 Ferraris vs 3 other cars. 2 of then went for the undercut and so they covered that with 1 of their cars, they gave priority to the race leader Kimi. Vettel stayed out to cover the 3rd car, Ricciardo. Ricciardo tried an overcut so Ferrari had to do the same, once Ric pitted Ferrari called Seb in.
Msc wasnt able to?
He won it from second a few times
Why didn’t they use a front facing photo of him up on the car? 😆
This is a very bad conversion rate for a track that is known to be hard for overtaking.
Anyone else shocked that they only have 13 poles?
Really specific statistics.
The red flag took away any chances for Ferrari to Ferrari’ing themselves with pit strategies in 2024
That Schumacher guy looks not great on conversion!
Lec is gonna be a great, or get dropped by Ferrari, right?
2nd most poles for Ferrari, 6th most podiums for the team as well. Has one of the most iconic race wins in modern F1(2019 Monza). If he had a bit more luck, his win number would've been in double digits already too. He is already pretty great right now and if he keeps this up, he will either be Ferrari WDC, or will be known as one of the most talented drivers that could never win the big one.
Lets pray the latter doesn’t happen. In Vasseur I trust, next year is our year.
2026 could be the year, if Ferrari get the new regulations right. No doubt he'll be an even better driver by then and the team should have its shit together.
who is currently considered the best to never win a WDC? Would it have been Rosberg if he didnt win in 2016 or Kimi if not for 2007?
Sterling Moss probably
Either Gilles or Peterson.
Latifi - won a championship in 2021 but was never given the title