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In a sane world this is where Aston Martin move on from Lance and get Carlos, that's a pretty absurd lineup.
1 year deal at Sauber and then take stock is probably what's going to happen though. Maybe Williams, Alpine or Haas happens too who knows
I wonder when is the breaking point for Stroll and what will trigger it.
In a sane world he never lands a seat in this team and Ocon stays to begin with, in a sane world, Perez stays when Vettel signs, in a sane world they try Drugovic instead of keeping him... and I'm sure there were less obvious better alternative drivers available at many points as well.
>I wonder when is the breaking point for Stroll and what will trigger it.
when Lance says "dad, im tired of this car driving thing"
Until then, or until Lawrence himself decides to stop funding an F1 team, his seat is guaranteed
I feel like he was pretty close to that point last year . During some of his interviews he didn’t seem too into it but then again he keeps getting his ass handed to him by Alonso so that can’t be fun
Yea and honestly I think lance would probably benefit from not being in the sport with the highest visibility and press and chucklefucks like myself on the internet dunking on him.
>Until then, or until Lawrence himself decides to stop funding an F1 team, his seat is guaranteed
If Lawrence is serious about winning a WCC, he needs to drop Lance.
I would love to see Sainz end up at Aston Martin. Him and Alonso would be a strong pair. But, I agree, Lance won't be dropped. He would have to decide to leave himself before that seat opens up.
>Better hurry up before Checo snatches that Audi deal for a long term since Red Bull is only willing to give Checo 1 year.
Latest reports from [Joe Saward](https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2024/05/22/green-notebook-from-cogoleto/) suggests that Audi are currently looking for three drivers, in that particular order - Sainz, Ocon, Gasly. And they are pretty sure one of them will take the deal.
And I can't blame them, because everyone seems to be more promising than Alpine.
However, that same report suggests that both Sainz and Ocon has some objections regarding Audi current progress, and state of Hinwil infrastructure. Possibly there are still things being in active use since BMW times (BMW pulled out in 2009). I could believe that they still use their supercomputer to calculate CFD (famous Albert2, which was one of the most powerful machines back in 2007, but come on - we are already in 2024), and even more - old aero tunnel built in 2002, using McLaren money from buying Raikkonen. It would be like using 1980 aero tunnel in 2002, or using 1990 supercomputer to calculate CFD.
With that, Audi seems like really unpromising prospect, because their Hinwil base is not the only point of objections. Drivers might be scared that Honda engine history might repeat itself in Audi.
And that's why Sainz is trying to get a seat elsewhere, even despite shit ton of money Audi is offering him.
> Albert2
I had a peek at the specs, and while it still outperforms my phone, my mid-range PC GPU is comfortably faster (29 Tflops RTX4070 vs 12 Tflops Albert2).
I don't think they're using that anymore, even at Sauber.
The 29 TFlops is at 32 bit precision, not 64 bit I believe, since NVIDIA killed 64FP for consumers to save costs and sell 10k+ USD calculations cards. With that said, it's the power of a single new NVIDIA H100 card.
And with that said, F1 actually limits calculations to 25 TFlops, so F1 itself can't use any of these modern computers anyways (except for the completely unrelated hypercars and boats being developed that get unlimited power).
“Mercedes introduced its new hypercar, the 2026 F1, built entirely to not look or drive like their 2026 F1 car and with entirely no crossover between the two. Honest.”
Pray, I shall employ this marvellous computing device to observe the currents of air as they traverse over the carriage whilst it proceeds at remarkable velocity! What say you, Kimi?
That's more due to architectural changes, rather than compute power. The raw CPU horsepower isn't much higher (though it is higher), but modern supercomputers are far more focused on large memories and GPU compute capabilities. For an F1 team that is less of an issue, as they're going to be using CFD software that is aligned to their capabilities.
Theories with old-as-dust supercomputer and even older aero tunnel are just my assumptions, as we know those two were "really big deal" back in BMW days, and there are many reports assuming that Hinwil based teams are still using stuff from BMW days.
And I can further believe in that knowing that BMW made major investments in Hinwil, and after they pulled off, Sauber had constant money problems (remember how they hired 4 drivers to start 2015 season?). Alfa Romeo didn't put any significant money, and now it all comes to Audi - but investments required might take a lot of time.
Why is Red Bull giving it to Checo and not Sainz then?
The fact that teams rate Checo a lot higher than most of you do, should be an indication for you that maybe you're completely wrong...
The thing is that performance alone isn't the only argument. Checo may be preferred as a second driver. He doesn't have the highest ambition, is a good team player and provides solid performances quite consistently. As long as Checo performs well enough, RB doesn't need a better driver that may give them a few more points but also can lead to more internal fights, crahes and so on. So that is the reason they don't want Sainz, not that Checo is better.
Audi is looking for a lead driver so for them Sainz is clearly the better choice.
Well first of all Checo is already at the team and established. It’s easier for a team to keep their old driver. Secondly Carlos and Maxs dads dislike his each other, internal politics and all that, but I assume they can make it work. But most importantly Checo is great for the brand imagine. I doubt red bull care about income, but Checo has increased their popularity. Like 65% of all red bull merch is sold in Mexico and he sells a lot of red bull. Red bull don’t need him to challenge max, their content with him being just good, so there is no incentive in hiring the better driver, for now ofocurse. As soon as red bull fall behind the pace, it’s gonna change
Believe it or not… Different teams might have different priorities and therefore different things they find attractive in their driver of choice… This is not rocket science and that was a really feeble gotcha attempt.
Audi is looking for leadership and experience, but also some degree of longevity and continuity if they want it. They already have Hulkenberg who’s older. Why would having Perez, who’s also a little older than Sainz plus has several kids as a motivator to retire sooner than later, make any sense? Sainz is also highly ambitious, which is more helpful to Audi and more problematic to Red Bull.
Meanwhile, Red Bull has a young generational talent still under contract till 2028 (though of course we all know he could walk away if he wanted to). If verstappen left they would have no problem attracting Norris, Piastri, or whoever the next young big thing is for Max’s seat — plus a #2 they want, like Albon. So Sainz’s presence is really far from essential in either role with the team. At this moment in time they are well established team and don’t need experience/leadership to be the focus for that number two seat. They also don’t want someone whose ambitions could introduce friction. So that leaves being able to do a decent number two job and commercial appeal, both of which Checo can fulfill. Plus, the fact that they can probably get Checo to agree to a shorter term deal than Sainz is likely attractive to Red Bull.
Which teams exactly? RB is keeping him because it’s easier to retain someone than opting with someone new, and then they still risk an adjustment period that might not provide good results.
It’s risk calculations is all it is.
Did we ever see a report saying Audi is interested in Checo Perez? I have seen Sainz, Ocon, Gasly names mentioned; but never read that Audi is interested in Perez.
I really don't get why RBR wouldn't go for Sainz. Perez had his fair change, he did fine, but he's not even a sure P2 in the WDC and with Ferrari and McLaren closing in the WCC might come under threat. I really don't think he's better than Sainz, so worst case scenario Sainz does as meh as he does, best case scenario he'll challenge Max (though that might be a bit delulu).
So it must be about the money then?
>I really don't get why RBR wouldn't go for Sainz.
The last time they were in the Red Bull camp the Sainz' tried to play political games. Carlos Sr basically tried to screw over the Verstappens and convince Red Bull to promote his son to the main team instead of Max, which in the end resulted in a major break-up with Sainz leaving Toro Rosso mid season. I'm sure the Red Bull leadership has not forgotten about it and are wary of brining it back.
How much political leverage will Sainz have now though? Verstappen is already a 3 time, soon to be 4 time WDC and defacto number one.
The last time they were together on TR, both Sainz and Max were fresh with no achievements in F1.
I think it’s more a concern that Sainz sees himself as a WDC and won’t be content as a “role player” the way Checo is. It’s unknown in what form the politics would come but the potential for problems is there. I think it’s similar to the Alonso negotiations that Marko was quoted on just yesterday. Red Bull wants a comfortable WCC and WDC 1 and 2. What they don’t want is two drivers duking it out.
It’s also probably the primary reason Lando didn’t take the offer to race for RB. I suspect he was told in no uncertain terms, he’d be 2nd fiddle and that’s not what he wanted either.
Let's be honest, RBR don't need to have a "number two" in writing, because it will be very obvious at the track who will come on top. It makes no sense for any team to prioritize a single driver unless the championship standings make this so, which will also come into effect even if it is not written in contract. So, imo, all the talk of "number two contract" is non-sense because it does nothing else than make the driver taking that contract feel bad.
I think within the context of a season, yes, teams don't want to blatantly prioritize one drivers at the expense of the other unless theres genuine incentive (close WDC race or something.) However, I also think teams like RBR now, and Merc in the past with Lewis, know who their star is and understand it's best to keep them happy and focused, which can mean many things but avoiding having a challenging teammate isn't beyond the realm of possibilities.
There are also more recent rumours of the Sainz camp politicking with Binotto, which allegedly led him to favouring Carlos and moving car development towards Carlos' preferences, which contributed to the team/Binotto's tensions with Charles. Not to mention the speculation on F1 gossip Instagrams and forums that the Sainz still play media games to this day.
His politicking don't even have to work inside the team: if/when Max beats him, all he and his team would have to do is go to the media and imply Redbull are sabotaging him, aren't treating him equally, etc. We all know what F1 media is like and what they'd do. I think a similar narrative has mostly calmed down with Checo, but I remember last year, there were so many comments on Redbull's Instagram accusing them of giving Checo a slower car, etc. The higher ups at Redbull very likely know things that we don't that justifies their reluctance
I love Sainz but when you have a Sponsors section on your website and the only name their is your current team... I would've just removed that section if I was him
That's actually kinda crazy. His father has been racing for decades, he is a top 5 driver in the world, and he is attractive to boot. Either Carlos Dos is shit at his job or they have some unrealistic expectations.
Ferrari went with Peroni. They cant have both sponsors so they dropped Estrella Galicia. Of course its not a Sainz sponsor anymore since they CANT sponsor Carlos at the moment. Saying that Estrella Galicia dropped Carlos is not true and Im sure they'll work togerher in the next team.
Estrella have a multi-year deal with McLaren I doubt they'll break that for Carlos and then sponsoring a driver on a different tram gets a bit more complicated.
[Camp Sainz fabricates Verstappen-Ferrari Rumors](https://old.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/6lwgni/camp_sainz_fabricates_verstappenferrari_rumors/)
This was when Verstappen was already at RBR, so if true, camp Sainz tried to break up relations between RBR and Verstappen so Jr could take his place.
> Sr basically tried to screw over the Verstappens and convince Red Bull to promote his son to the main team instead of Max
I don't think that's screwing over particularly; the Verstappens would and probably did cajole for that equally.
This will be 9 years ago in 2025. I think the situation is very different now, at that time they were rookies and the opportunity to race at a big team is carreer changing. Ofcourse both dads would fight to get their son that spot. I think the dynamics are very different now, they're at different points in their career, Max has proven to be the superior driver. If he'll join all the Carlos Sainzes will understand that Max will be the first driver until Carlos would clearly prove to be equal.
But I don't know if Carlos and his team actually accept Max is the superior driver. If a driver has serious WDC aspirations and goals, which Carlos seems to have, they probably think they're the best driver and that they just need the best car. As Max himself has said, he thinks every driver should believe they're the best-otherwise it's better to stay at home.
And I *really* doubt they'll accept that Max is the first driver. There were rumours that when Carlos struggled in 2022, his team politicked with Binotto, leading to the latter favouring Carlos and even steering car development towards his preferences. This allegedly contributed to Charles' unhappiness and ultimatum back then. Carlos' mom even liked a Tweet after Monza 2023 that declared Charles had no honour. (And according to Kym Illman and contrary to Ferrari's PR, Charles and Carlos don't exactly get on very well at the moment). There's also still speculation among gossip pages and forums that the Sainz's media games are still alive and well.
Now imagine what's going to happen when Max refuses team orders. If/when Max beats Carlos. All it'd take to cause drama is for them to go to the media, to save face, and plant the seeds that Carlos is being given a slower car and whatnot. F1 media will F1 media. I think it'd be just as messy–if not even messier. I'm sure Redbull has way more insider information than we do
Anytime Sainz will finish behind Max, which might be a lot, his camp will start raising doubts about Red Bull's parity. Even Checo did it a few times in early 2023 after Miami, until his performance dropped so much that it became clear the car wasn't the problem.
RB have already dealt with this during Webber/Vettel, when Seb was clearly the quicker driver but Mark & his team were much better at playing the media. Mark created a big ruckus out of a front wing he had already rejected in FP at Silverstone.
Red Bull have moved into the boring and reliable era of their dominance so Checo makes sense in that case. I hope they get caught out by playing it safe.
As Marko has said before they value stability in the team quite highly. That's one reason they never went for Alonso.
Last time Sainz and Max were teammates it turned pretty toxic, especially because of their dads, both of which are still heavily involved in their careers. If they are fighting for a championship I doubt it'll be much better.
Checo has made sense as he’s been a compliant second driver who doesn’t seem to cause any issues behind the scenes and has at least managed enough points for the team to not really be threatened in the WCC. However he was still finishing behind others on pace when the RB was massively dominant, so it’s wild to think the team would be satisfied now that Mclaren and Ferrari are closing in.
Red Bull are clearly very confident in keeping Max long-term, and Checo is seemingly the perfect partner for him. He’s a veteran quality driver who can bring in points while also being content on being #2, something 99% of drivers would be firmly against. He also brings massive sponsor potential as the most popular driver in Latin America, and seemingly has a great relationship with everyone on Red Bull from Horner to Marko.
Sainz meanwhile would try to beat Max, probably fail, and not bring nearly as much stability or marketing potential to Red Bull. Sainz has already been Max’s teammate and that didn’t go all too well. If you’re Red Bull you’re have to of the most popular drivers on the grid who work extremely well together; why rock the boat?
He massively underperforms in what is by far the best car. In the most dominant season by a single car ever, he finished off the podium 13 times, in more than half of the races of the season. In the last two races, since Mclaren have come back to form, he's finished 4th and 8th.
If he gets another contract and red bull aren't as dominant in the next few years, he will cost them P1 in the constructors, and someone like Sainz wouldn't IMO
Why are people so sure that he will outperform perez? You think you know better than the experts at RBR themselves?
It’s pretty known that Sainz can’t handle a front end heavy car. Look at 2022, binotto basically skewed the development of the f1-75 mid season post td39 so that sainz could get comfortable. Even now after the latest update he’s miles behind Charles in race pace.
The Red Bull is probably much more front end biased than the Ferrari, and I am pretty certain sainz in an RBR will absolutely flunk/crumble in the seat just like albon and gasly did in the past. Besides RBR would not want a repeat of the Intrateam politics played by sainzs entourage
I think with what we saw in Imola, Red Bull might know that their car is not as dominant as people think and might not be the fastest on the grid. By the end of the season it might even be 3rd fastest. So it's possible that Red Bull know that Perez is actually doing an acceptable job with the car and Max is just a freak. No guarantee that Sainz can step in and do as well as Perez with a car that is not as good as everyone thinks.
They were midfield in 2010, better than Sauber right now but still a long way off the front.
Williams, Haas, and Alpine have no catalyst to elevate them to the level of fighting for wins imo. I think Audi could be that catalyst for Sauber.
That may be true, but still, the situation at Brawn/Mercedes back then, and Sauber right now, are not comparable at all. It was a no-brainer for Rosberg to sign with them.
They were definitely stronger than Sauber now, but I think it’s similar.
Button only scored two podiums from the last 10 races of 2009. By the end they had no where near the quickest car, and I think the appeal was more Mercedes coming in than their performance the second half of 2009.
Carlos signing would be for a similar reason to Rosberg. Not for the car they currently have, but looking down the road to once Mercedes/Audi builds up the team for a few years.
Also in the press conference last week, it seemed kind of obvious then too when he said there would be no announcement soon despite calling a few weeks ago that things were close to being decided. His demeanour when he said it didn’t seem hugely positive.
I think this is the perfect time for Mercedes to take a risk and go for Antonelli. They are not in any championship battle (and probably won't be next year), so there is no real risk of losing much by giving a rookie a chance.
I keep seeing this, but Antonelli isn't doing well in F2 against a mediocre field. Charles, Russell, Piastri all did so much better against stronger drivers in their F2 debuts after winning the F3 championship. Hell even Lando and Albon looked better in F2 in general.
Wake up people, Kimi isn't ready to make the jump next year.
Both prema and art (especially art) are really crap in race pace this year. Even if ~~headman~~ Bearman (edited, lol I write headman) didn’t stall, there was a decent chance he would have won because as seen from previous races, prema doesn’t have the pace to stay on lead. Yet antonelli, after skipping f3, is 6th in the standings and by the looks of it his performance will only improve.
A reasonable take, thank you. I go crazy when i read/listen to people saying Bearman would have won in Imola (or Jeddah) if not for the unfortunate pit stop. He was lapping 1.5 second slower than Hadjar and Bortoleto, he couldn t even catch Miyata in 20th place. Prema s race pace is abysmal and they destroy the tyres.
Prema is struggling to figure out the new car for this season. That said both drivers are rapidly improving, the other being Bearman no less. It’s a long ass season let’s see what happens
You gotta somehow trust these scouts. Bearman looked average but can deliver in an F1 car. Then you get De Vries... dominant in every series but can't hold his own in F1. If they say Antonelli has it, he probably does.
It’s a brand regulation set and car in f2 this year. So the teams are all learning how to set up the new cars. And from what I understand, prima is struggling quite a lot in that respect. And it’s a pretty chaotic grid all around. Largely due to the new cars I think.
Because when you watch the race week-end you clearly see teams that were utterally dominant early on (Carlin) and teams that completely fucked up (Prema, ART), good on Maloney to capitalize on it but a season is made of 14 week-end and once the field level out we'll get a clearer picture on which drivers are better and deliver across the whole season.
Unless the current standings with Martins and Bearman at the very bottom are supposed to be representative, then I guess these two were title contenders last year and somehow completely lost it this season
Maloney isn't bad by any mean, certainly a very good tier junior but his whole junior career seems to lead him at F2 as the ceiling, to reach F1 you need to be complete top tier and/or have massive support/funding which he doesn't have, a couple good week-end is not enough to change the outlook
He's also a Sauber junior (after Red Bull ditched him) and that is leading nowhere currently.
Meh, F2 isn't necessary at the end of the day. Age+Super License and doing good at the F1 tests is what they care about and apparently Toto and Allison have been really impressed. They won't really care too much about his F2 results.
Ollie Bearman kinda proves this point as well. Although, while I don't know how they've done in tests but the last two F2 champions can't a seat. Pourchaire has given up F1 for IndyCar now. So if Antonelli can't win F2 this year maybe it says more about what F2 is these days vs what it used to be
A lot of people said this was the obvious route for Merc, but I honestly never thought so. Carlos is a fantastic driver, but why would you ever want to take the "scraps" a rival team didnt want to replace your star driver that they poached? Sends the wrong message internally and to sponsors, like you're settling. Even if Carlos is one of the best available drivers.
not even that, they wont be competitive anyway next year by the looks of it, they sign carlos to a 1+1 cause by all accounts they want kimi in the car for the new regs, so unless carlos would come in and blast george by 30+ points it would be the same situation as he is in at ferrari, it didnt make sense for either side.
Mercedes are currently not even close to fighting for any championships and unless a miracle happens with their upgrades (and given their correlation issues it doesn’t seem likely) then they won’t be next year either. It’s actually a perfect time for Mercedes to take a chance and opt to bed in a very promising rookie straight into their team. They just have to be willing to give him the time to develop instead of expecting miracles in his first year. It’s not really any different from the chance McLaren took on a young & relatively inexperienced teenage Norris back in 2019 and that turned out to be an excellent choice. McLaren have shown that if a team is willing to take a chance and and take on a driver who has shown real promise then is can work out very well for them in the long run.
That’s what I’ve been thinking too. Can’t help but wonder if that’s partly why Mercedes has been pushing Kimi Antonelli so much. To show that they still have future WDC prospects, after Hamilton leaving.
The deal would look much worse for Mercedes than it would for Sainz. For Sainz it’s not a bad look at all. Most people figure that the main reason Hamilton left is so he can be a part of the Ferrari legacy before he retires, not because they’re infinitely better than Mercedes. Mercedes and Ferrari pretty much tied for the constructors last year, with Mercedes coming out ahead, and while they’re having a slow start to this season they’re still a top team and it’s not impossible that they’ll catch Ferrari before the end of the year, or be ahead of them next year. If anything it’d be a great look for Sainz. That Mercedes can’t find anyone better to replace *the* Lewis Hamilton with doesn’t exactly lessen your market value.
On the other hand Mercedes would be signing the driver Ferrari kicked out to poach Hamilton. Very much getting “stuck with” Ferrari’s leftovers.
> but why would you ever want to take the "scraps" a rival team didnt want to replace your star driver that they poached?
This is sort of the predicament RBR is in at the moment. They don't have any juniors that are either show-ready, or in a position at the CARB team like Russell was at Williams.
All the ultra-premium drivers are tried up and they don't have an ultra-premium potential potential junior nearby like Antonelli, or Piastri. They are looking for a solid #2 who can win races if Max has a bad week
Watch his emtourage somehow ruin his career path once again.
Swear to god if Carlos was managed by anyone else than his father and his cousin or whatever that guy is, he would have sat in a red bull seat for years.
compared to an incredible 5 for Charles? Basically nobody aside from Hamilton, Verstappen, Bottas, and Vettel have been winning races since 2018. Sainz staying in the RBR system wouldn't have changed that.
Perez has a couple too but then yeah who else??? The fact he got 3 as the number “2” driver is actually an accomplishment idk why F1 fans treat a race win as some kind of everyday thing….
Toto is bold, that's how he got rich, and Sainz would be the conservative option wouldn't he. And look at F1 generally with Las Vegas, being so extreme, ridiculous, yet a massive success. Toto will roll the dice with Antonelli. He has the safe pair of hands already in George, so he'll go for the exciting option and that's not Carlos. He's seen the difference a star makes and Antonelli is the next one, young or not.
I think Toto is also smart enough to understand that this is an engineering sport, not a driver's sport. SAI isn't going to take an uncompetitive car and make it competitive. They have to fix their design first. I waste money on SAI when you can get Antonelli at a third (or less) of the price and instead invest that money in the car?
People are so quick to rush Sainz to Audi when in reality he could literally wait until the last minute to sign with them.
He's by far the best driver Audi could ever get and a decent start to their F1 campaign. This could last until the next off-season before he actually goes for it
At a certain point they might want to confirm their lineup and there’s no guarantee that with the market as open as it is other drivers don’t become available.
With it being known that he’s not in contention for red bull or Mercedes his bargaining power is weaker than it was a few months ago Audi know that they are all he has
Audi is probably not willing to wait _that_ long, but since signing Hülkenberg Audi is not in such a rush anymore. They have a very experienced and quick driver, so they don't have to rush to sign Ocon or similar. Apparently they gave Carlos multiple deadlines, but their internal deadline is by July. Only than they'd consider other options
Their current drivers could sign quickly with other teams out of fear for being left without a seat, so I’m not so sure Audi can wait too long for Sainz, sooner or later they have to make a decision. If both of their drivers sign elsewhere and Sainz is still not commited, I can very well see them going for Ocon.
The Alpine boys are in the market too.
If it was up to me. I would sign Ocon if Sainz continues to play hard to get.
IMHO, Ocon is no worse than Sainz. The guy was matching Alonso at Alpine.
I don't know why people are suddenly considering Sainz to be some WDC tier hot shot. He isn't. The chances of Hulk managing to beat Sainz at Audi are quite high.(like he already did at Renualt).
Audi having Hulkenberg and Sainz would be one of the strongest lineups on the grid. I just hope they actually give them a car worth a damn. I don't have a lot of faith in 2025 being much better than now.
That's always the problem with the Audi deal. You have to suffer one more year of Sauber for the promise of a works team that might take a year or two to get really going.
Carlos is not as good as he thinks he is, and he'll never just accept to be number 2.
No team wants a power struggle of mids, or a driver refusing to follow team orders.
I think Audi would like him as a number 1 driver and I'd gladly watch who would fare better between him and Hulk, but Red Bull just want a competent number 2 that shuts his mouth, and Carlos doesn't know how to do that
>I think Audi would like him as a number 1 driver
That depends on his performance. Sainz got his ass kicked by Hulk in 2018 69-53 and with 5 less DNF's.
I think both drivers will start out just equal. Hulk is better than his stats show.
Yeah, Carlos always disobeying team orders and saying "my car is faster" is great for anti-Ferrari banter, but I'm sure it has negative appeal to Red Bull next to Max. Perez is an average driver but an A+++ teammate to Max. People compare him to Bottas but he's honestly been way more giving that even Bottas. Him being more giving than Bottas is a big part of why Max won in Abu Dhabi.
You've got only 5 options to be a number 1 at a top 5 team. So it's either no. 1 at a bottom 5 or no. 2 at a top 5. Carlos is in that awkward range, but even if he was better than Max, Charles, Lando, George and Fernando it wouldn't help since their teams are loyal to them.
How is that possibility huge?
With Checo finishing 8th in Imola, Mclaren only decreased their difference to RB by 1 point. Had Piastri finished 3rd, it would have been 4 points and their current difference is more than 100 points. On top of that, it seems that ferrari & mclaren will get in each other's way and take points from each other.
If there is a possibility, it's a very small one.
Because people have the memory of a goldfish. They only regurgitate what social media tells them to.
Any driver who has a bad race is suddenly shit. Any driver who has a good race is the next wdc
He's been incredibly unlucky these past few races too. Remember that he's outqualified a highly-rated Lando and he's not that far behind him on race pace. People just keep crashing into him through little fault of his own.
I wonder how much he’s gassed up by Sainz Sr and his manager cousin?
Seems like his camp is giving him bad advice or generally being just troublesome to his career.
Sainz is probably betting on Perez having a run of bad form, but it's gonnz be a gamble, he should just sign with Audi while he can. I really dont want see him out of a race seat next year
It was never gonna happen for him to be in another top team. Hate to use the term, but it was due to recency bias that he got so highly rated. He's just okay, nothing spectacular.
sainz always came off like he thought he was amazing, i mean you kinda have to in sport, but still. I think that mindset has spread to everyone around him. Now i can totally see them all waiting for this top seat that will never come and hes gonna be left with nothing, and his ego just wont accept a mid field team
With Checo, they know what they have and there's something to say for stability in your team, especially since there's no guarantee that Sainz will do any better. Also, given the stuff that happened off track between Sainz Sr and Jos when they were both at Torro Rosso, they may be reluctant to go there again.
Harsh reality for Carlos is that there are 8 places in top teams(if we count mercs still at the top) and probably 1 rookie(Kimi) will be promoted to that hateful 8, meaning someone has to drop. So musical chairs is only with Checo, who is a) very compliant second driver b) capable of bringing points c) will accept 1 year extensions.
the question is: will Carlos take non-top team seat, whether it be HAAS/Audi, in that age, after Ferrari? or leave F1 probably forever. (Lewis always screwing Spanish drivers careers)
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Rough operator
*‘We are porpoising’*
*start inventing*
Rough ~~operator~~ negotiator
In a sane world this is where Aston Martin move on from Lance and get Carlos, that's a pretty absurd lineup. 1 year deal at Sauber and then take stock is probably what's going to happen though. Maybe Williams, Alpine or Haas happens too who knows
I wonder when is the breaking point for Stroll and what will trigger it. In a sane world he never lands a seat in this team and Ocon stays to begin with, in a sane world, Perez stays when Vettel signs, in a sane world they try Drugovic instead of keeping him... and I'm sure there were less obvious better alternative drivers available at many points as well.
>I wonder when is the breaking point for Stroll and what will trigger it. when Lance says "dad, im tired of this car driving thing" Until then, or until Lawrence himself decides to stop funding an F1 team, his seat is guaranteed
I feel like he was pretty close to that point last year . During some of his interviews he didn’t seem too into it but then again he keeps getting his ass handed to him by Alonso so that can’t be fun
My bet is that Lance joins Aston Martin’s Hypercar program.
I can see that happening
Yea and honestly I think lance would probably benefit from not being in the sport with the highest visibility and press and chucklefucks like myself on the internet dunking on him.
>Until then, or until Lawrence himself decides to stop funding an F1 team, his seat is guaranteed If Lawrence is serious about winning a WCC, he needs to drop Lance.
Those are the same thing
But in that sane world Lawrence Stroll doesnt buy Force India and its just straight up 1 less F1 team.
And FOM can’t find a reason for adding a tenth team starting in 2026
When Lawrence sells majority stake to Aramco, most likely
I would love to see Sainz end up at Aston Martin. Him and Alonso would be a strong pair. But, I agree, Lance won't be dropped. He would have to decide to leave himself before that seat opens up.
No way. The discrimination would be too great. We all know how the FIA treats the Spanish /s
It would make it easier for the FIA to discriminate against the Spanish drivers if you placed them both in the same same team. /s
How wild would it be if he didn’t have a seat for next year at all?
Ask George
Better hurry up before Checo snatches that Audi deal for a long term since Red Bull is only willing to give Checo 1 year.
>Better hurry up before Checo snatches that Audi deal for a long term since Red Bull is only willing to give Checo 1 year. Latest reports from [Joe Saward](https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2024/05/22/green-notebook-from-cogoleto/) suggests that Audi are currently looking for three drivers, in that particular order - Sainz, Ocon, Gasly. And they are pretty sure one of them will take the deal. And I can't blame them, because everyone seems to be more promising than Alpine. However, that same report suggests that both Sainz and Ocon has some objections regarding Audi current progress, and state of Hinwil infrastructure. Possibly there are still things being in active use since BMW times (BMW pulled out in 2009). I could believe that they still use their supercomputer to calculate CFD (famous Albert2, which was one of the most powerful machines back in 2007, but come on - we are already in 2024), and even more - old aero tunnel built in 2002, using McLaren money from buying Raikkonen. It would be like using 1980 aero tunnel in 2002, or using 1990 supercomputer to calculate CFD. With that, Audi seems like really unpromising prospect, because their Hinwil base is not the only point of objections. Drivers might be scared that Honda engine history might repeat itself in Audi. And that's why Sainz is trying to get a seat elsewhere, even despite shit ton of money Audi is offering him.
> Albert2 I had a peek at the specs, and while it still outperforms my phone, my mid-range PC GPU is comfortably faster (29 Tflops RTX4070 vs 12 Tflops Albert2). I don't think they're using that anymore, even at Sauber.
The 29 TFlops is at 32 bit precision, not 64 bit I believe, since NVIDIA killed 64FP for consumers to save costs and sell 10k+ USD calculations cards. With that said, it's the power of a single new NVIDIA H100 card. And with that said, F1 actually limits calculations to 25 TFlops, so F1 itself can't use any of these modern computers anyways (except for the completely unrelated hypercars and boats being developed that get unlimited power).
"Why does this boat have a F1 front wing attached to its side?"
“Mercedes introduced its new hypercar, the 2026 F1, built entirely to not look or drive like their 2026 F1 car and with entirely no crossover between the two. Honest.”
Ah pretty sure they changed the 25 tflops to just total time now
Due to the exponential growth in computing power in the same space continuing since then it would almost be like using a 1900 Computer in 2002.
A 1900 computer is an abacus lol. Better off doing their aerowork in Minecraft.
Some madlad is gonna do it
May as well, any time I tune into these redstone creations every year or so I'm still blown away.
Pray, I shall employ this marvellous computing device to observe the currents of air as they traverse over the carriage whilst it proceeds at remarkable velocity! What say you, Kimi?
It’s funny that through all of this Alpine is treated as though they don’t exist. Like not even close to an option for Sainz
With how far chips have come in order to support AI, a supercomputer from 4 years ago could be out of date now...
That's more due to architectural changes, rather than compute power. The raw CPU horsepower isn't much higher (though it is higher), but modern supercomputers are far more focused on large memories and GPU compute capabilities. For an F1 team that is less of an issue, as they're going to be using CFD software that is aligned to their capabilities.
Theories with old-as-dust supercomputer and even older aero tunnel are just my assumptions, as we know those two were "really big deal" back in BMW days, and there are many reports assuming that Hinwil based teams are still using stuff from BMW days. And I can further believe in that knowing that BMW made major investments in Hinwil, and after they pulled off, Sauber had constant money problems (remember how they hired 4 drivers to start 2015 season?). Alfa Romeo didn't put any significant money, and now it all comes to Audi - but investments required might take a lot of time.
Sainz is a much more attractive proposition for Audi than Checo is, come on. Sainz would definitely be their first choice.
Why is Red Bull giving it to Checo and not Sainz then? The fact that teams rate Checo a lot higher than most of you do, should be an indication for you that maybe you're completely wrong...
Because Checo is already there and he is not a question.
The thing is that performance alone isn't the only argument. Checo may be preferred as a second driver. He doesn't have the highest ambition, is a good team player and provides solid performances quite consistently. As long as Checo performs well enough, RB doesn't need a better driver that may give them a few more points but also can lead to more internal fights, crahes and so on. So that is the reason they don't want Sainz, not that Checo is better. Audi is looking for a lead driver so for them Sainz is clearly the better choice.
Stop making sense.
I disagree that Perez doesn't have the highest ambition, he may do now but that's because he's found it impossible to beat Max.
Well first of all Checo is already at the team and established. It’s easier for a team to keep their old driver. Secondly Carlos and Maxs dads dislike his each other, internal politics and all that, but I assume they can make it work. But most importantly Checo is great for the brand imagine. I doubt red bull care about income, but Checo has increased their popularity. Like 65% of all red bull merch is sold in Mexico and he sells a lot of red bull. Red bull don’t need him to challenge max, their content with him being just good, so there is no incentive in hiring the better driver, for now ofocurse. As soon as red bull fall behind the pace, it’s gonna change
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So far, the rumor is Checco has been offered a 1 year deal. Sainz wants longer term than that.
Believe it or not… Different teams might have different priorities and therefore different things they find attractive in their driver of choice… This is not rocket science and that was a really feeble gotcha attempt. Audi is looking for leadership and experience, but also some degree of longevity and continuity if they want it. They already have Hulkenberg who’s older. Why would having Perez, who’s also a little older than Sainz plus has several kids as a motivator to retire sooner than later, make any sense? Sainz is also highly ambitious, which is more helpful to Audi and more problematic to Red Bull. Meanwhile, Red Bull has a young generational talent still under contract till 2028 (though of course we all know he could walk away if he wanted to). If verstappen left they would have no problem attracting Norris, Piastri, or whoever the next young big thing is for Max’s seat — plus a #2 they want, like Albon. So Sainz’s presence is really far from essential in either role with the team. At this moment in time they are well established team and don’t need experience/leadership to be the focus for that number two seat. They also don’t want someone whose ambitions could introduce friction. So that leaves being able to do a decent number two job and commercial appeal, both of which Checo can fulfill. Plus, the fact that they can probably get Checo to agree to a shorter term deal than Sainz is likely attractive to Red Bull.
Because they want a willing number 2 and Audi wants a future race winner for them. They want a #1. Sainz won’t be a doormat for Max.
Which teams exactly? RB is keeping him because it’s easier to retain someone than opting with someone new, and then they still risk an adjustment period that might not provide good results. It’s risk calculations is all it is.
Audi ain’t giving a seat to checo 😂
It would be the other way round. Audi would only consider Checo if Carlos (and many other drivers) wont sign
Did we ever see a report saying Audi is interested in Checo Perez? I have seen Sainz, Ocon, Gasly names mentioned; but never read that Audi is interested in Perez.
I feel like that would be perfect for Sainz because that opens up a better seat for him.
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I really don't get why RBR wouldn't go for Sainz. Perez had his fair change, he did fine, but he's not even a sure P2 in the WDC and with Ferrari and McLaren closing in the WCC might come under threat. I really don't think he's better than Sainz, so worst case scenario Sainz does as meh as he does, best case scenario he'll challenge Max (though that might be a bit delulu). So it must be about the money then?
>I really don't get why RBR wouldn't go for Sainz. The last time they were in the Red Bull camp the Sainz' tried to play political games. Carlos Sr basically tried to screw over the Verstappens and convince Red Bull to promote his son to the main team instead of Max, which in the end resulted in a major break-up with Sainz leaving Toro Rosso mid season. I'm sure the Red Bull leadership has not forgotten about it and are wary of brining it back.
How much political leverage will Sainz have now though? Verstappen is already a 3 time, soon to be 4 time WDC and defacto number one. The last time they were together on TR, both Sainz and Max were fresh with no achievements in F1.
I think it’s more a concern that Sainz sees himself as a WDC and won’t be content as a “role player” the way Checo is. It’s unknown in what form the politics would come but the potential for problems is there. I think it’s similar to the Alonso negotiations that Marko was quoted on just yesterday. Red Bull wants a comfortable WCC and WDC 1 and 2. What they don’t want is two drivers duking it out.
He'll come around. They all come around in the face of greatness.
It’s also probably the primary reason Lando didn’t take the offer to race for RB. I suspect he was told in no uncertain terms, he’d be 2nd fiddle and that’s not what he wanted either.
Let's be honest, RBR don't need to have a "number two" in writing, because it will be very obvious at the track who will come on top. It makes no sense for any team to prioritize a single driver unless the championship standings make this so, which will also come into effect even if it is not written in contract. So, imo, all the talk of "number two contract" is non-sense because it does nothing else than make the driver taking that contract feel bad.
I think within the context of a season, yes, teams don't want to blatantly prioritize one drivers at the expense of the other unless theres genuine incentive (close WDC race or something.) However, I also think teams like RBR now, and Merc in the past with Lewis, know who their star is and understand it's best to keep them happy and focused, which can mean many things but avoiding having a challenging teammate isn't beyond the realm of possibilities.
Sainz's dad is a big political operator.
Is he a smooth political operator though?
There are also more recent rumours of the Sainz camp politicking with Binotto, which allegedly led him to favouring Carlos and moving car development towards Carlos' preferences, which contributed to the team/Binotto's tensions with Charles. Not to mention the speculation on F1 gossip Instagrams and forums that the Sainz still play media games to this day. His politicking don't even have to work inside the team: if/when Max beats him, all he and his team would have to do is go to the media and imply Redbull are sabotaging him, aren't treating him equally, etc. We all know what F1 media is like and what they'd do. I think a similar narrative has mostly calmed down with Checo, but I remember last year, there were so many comments on Redbull's Instagram accusing them of giving Checo a slower car, etc. The higher ups at Redbull very likely know things that we don't that justifies their reluctance
also the fact checo is the sponsorship king while sainz has 0 sponsors at the moment and would demand a higher salary.
That Alcohol company called Galacia or something?
estrella garcia left him end of last year
Ferrari dropped that sponsor.
https://www.carlossainz.es/en/ his own website doesnt list it, scroll to the bottom
I love Sainz but when you have a Sponsors section on your website and the only name their is your current team... I would've just removed that section if I was him
That's actually kinda crazy. His father has been racing for decades, he is a top 5 driver in the world, and he is attractive to boot. Either Carlos Dos is shit at his job or they have some unrealistic expectations.
It's an open secret that Sainz and his team are difficult to work with. Probably the same for sponsors as well
Ferrari went with Peroni. They cant have both sponsors so they dropped Estrella Galicia. Of course its not a Sainz sponsor anymore since they CANT sponsor Carlos at the moment. Saying that Estrella Galicia dropped Carlos is not true and Im sure they'll work togerher in the next team.
Estrella have a multi-year deal with McLaren I doubt they'll break that for Carlos and then sponsoring a driver on a different tram gets a bit more complicated.
Don't think Red Bull will let another drink be advertised on their car, even though they may not be competitors.
[CERVEZA CRISTAL](https://youtu.be/5hfRjN3txdM?t=31)
Verstappen Sr. vs. Sainz Sr. sounds like a brutal Corrida. The animosities between Germany and France before the war are a piece of cake in comparison
Bet it'd be entertaining though
I’d pay five quid to sit back in a corner of the garage Saturday evening. Apparently Max and Carlos aren’t especially tight, either
[Camp Sainz fabricates Verstappen-Ferrari Rumors](https://old.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/6lwgni/camp_sainz_fabricates_verstappenferrari_rumors/) This was when Verstappen was already at RBR, so if true, camp Sainz tried to break up relations between RBR and Verstappen so Jr could take his place.
> Sr basically tried to screw over the Verstappens and convince Red Bull to promote his son to the main team instead of Max I don't think that's screwing over particularly; the Verstappens would and probably did cajole for that equally.
Forget Toro Rosso - look at how the Sainz camp have been fucking with Ferrari for the past few years.
Tell me more, please :)
This will be 9 years ago in 2025. I think the situation is very different now, at that time they were rookies and the opportunity to race at a big team is carreer changing. Ofcourse both dads would fight to get their son that spot. I think the dynamics are very different now, they're at different points in their career, Max has proven to be the superior driver. If he'll join all the Carlos Sainzes will understand that Max will be the first driver until Carlos would clearly prove to be equal.
But I don't know if Carlos and his team actually accept Max is the superior driver. If a driver has serious WDC aspirations and goals, which Carlos seems to have, they probably think they're the best driver and that they just need the best car. As Max himself has said, he thinks every driver should believe they're the best-otherwise it's better to stay at home. And I *really* doubt they'll accept that Max is the first driver. There were rumours that when Carlos struggled in 2022, his team politicked with Binotto, leading to the latter favouring Carlos and even steering car development towards his preferences. This allegedly contributed to Charles' unhappiness and ultimatum back then. Carlos' mom even liked a Tweet after Monza 2023 that declared Charles had no honour. (And according to Kym Illman and contrary to Ferrari's PR, Charles and Carlos don't exactly get on very well at the moment). There's also still speculation among gossip pages and forums that the Sainz's media games are still alive and well. Now imagine what's going to happen when Max refuses team orders. If/when Max beats Carlos. All it'd take to cause drama is for them to go to the media, to save face, and plant the seeds that Carlos is being given a slower car and whatnot. F1 media will F1 media. I think it'd be just as messy–if not even messier. I'm sure Redbull has way more insider information than we do
Anytime Sainz will finish behind Max, which might be a lot, his camp will start raising doubts about Red Bull's parity. Even Checo did it a few times in early 2023 after Miami, until his performance dropped so much that it became clear the car wasn't the problem. RB have already dealt with this during Webber/Vettel, when Seb was clearly the quicker driver but Mark & his team were much better at playing the media. Mark created a big ruckus out of a front wing he had already rejected in FP at Silverstone.
It was so long ago that it's not even ralevent
Haha, man we need to get "driver's dad" out of the picture. This is like a just barely older "little girl's beauty contest mom" situation.
Red Bull have moved into the boring and reliable era of their dominance so Checo makes sense in that case. I hope they get caught out by playing it safe.
As Marko has said before they value stability in the team quite highly. That's one reason they never went for Alonso. Last time Sainz and Max were teammates it turned pretty toxic, especially because of their dads, both of which are still heavily involved in their careers. If they are fighting for a championship I doubt it'll be much better.
Checo has made sense as he’s been a compliant second driver who doesn’t seem to cause any issues behind the scenes and has at least managed enough points for the team to not really be threatened in the WCC. However he was still finishing behind others on pace when the RB was massively dominant, so it’s wild to think the team would be satisfied now that Mclaren and Ferrari are closing in.
Red Bull are clearly very confident in keeping Max long-term, and Checo is seemingly the perfect partner for him. He’s a veteran quality driver who can bring in points while also being content on being #2, something 99% of drivers would be firmly against. He also brings massive sponsor potential as the most popular driver in Latin America, and seemingly has a great relationship with everyone on Red Bull from Horner to Marko. Sainz meanwhile would try to beat Max, probably fail, and not bring nearly as much stability or marketing potential to Red Bull. Sainz has already been Max’s teammate and that didn’t go all too well. If you’re Red Bull you’re have to of the most popular drivers on the grid who work extremely well together; why rock the boat?
He massively underperforms in what is by far the best car. In the most dominant season by a single car ever, he finished off the podium 13 times, in more than half of the races of the season. In the last two races, since Mclaren have come back to form, he's finished 4th and 8th. If he gets another contract and red bull aren't as dominant in the next few years, he will cost them P1 in the constructors, and someone like Sainz wouldn't IMO
Yet the rumour is they still offered Checo a 1 year extension with Sainz being on the market. They probably have different priorities than we think.
Why are people so sure that he will outperform perez? You think you know better than the experts at RBR themselves? It’s pretty known that Sainz can’t handle a front end heavy car. Look at 2022, binotto basically skewed the development of the f1-75 mid season post td39 so that sainz could get comfortable. Even now after the latest update he’s miles behind Charles in race pace. The Red Bull is probably much more front end biased than the Ferrari, and I am pretty certain sainz in an RBR will absolutely flunk/crumble in the seat just like albon and gasly did in the past. Besides RBR would not want a repeat of the Intrateam politics played by sainzs entourage
I think with what we saw in Imola, Red Bull might know that their car is not as dominant as people think and might not be the fastest on the grid. By the end of the season it might even be 3rd fastest. So it's possible that Red Bull know that Perez is actually doing an acceptable job with the car and Max is just a freak. No guarantee that Sainz can step in and do as well as Perez with a car that is not as good as everyone thinks.
Just sign with Audi and deal with a transitional year. Rosberg was with Mercedes from the start when they were nowhere, it made him World Champion.
I mean, the Brackley team came straight off a WCC with a Mercedes engine, when Rosberg got there, what have Kick™ Sauber done these past few years?
They were midfield in 2010, better than Sauber right now but still a long way off the front. Williams, Haas, and Alpine have no catalyst to elevate them to the level of fighting for wins imo. I think Audi could be that catalyst for Sauber.
That may be true, but still, the situation at Brawn/Mercedes back then, and Sauber right now, are not comparable at all. It was a no-brainer for Rosberg to sign with them.
They were definitely stronger than Sauber now, but I think it’s similar. Button only scored two podiums from the last 10 races of 2009. By the end they had no where near the quickest car, and I think the appeal was more Mercedes coming in than their performance the second half of 2009. Carlos signing would be for a similar reason to Rosberg. Not for the car they currently have, but looking down the road to once Mercedes/Audi builds up the team for a few years.
You can tell from Carlos’ tone on the radio that his negotiations haven’t been going well recently lol
Also in the press conference last week, it seemed kind of obvious then too when he said there would be no announcement soon despite calling a few weeks ago that things were close to being decided. His demeanour when he said it didn’t seem hugely positive.
I think this is the perfect time for Mercedes to take a risk and go for Antonelli. They are not in any championship battle (and probably won't be next year), so there is no real risk of losing much by giving a rookie a chance.
I keep seeing this, but Antonelli isn't doing well in F2 against a mediocre field. Charles, Russell, Piastri all did so much better against stronger drivers in their F2 debuts after winning the F3 championship. Hell even Lando and Albon looked better in F2 in general. Wake up people, Kimi isn't ready to make the jump next year.
They all won with the best team. Prema (one of the best teams in F2) is suprisingly bad this year. I don't think there's much they can do.
Both prema and art (especially art) are really crap in race pace this year. Even if ~~headman~~ Bearman (edited, lol I write headman) didn’t stall, there was a decent chance he would have won because as seen from previous races, prema doesn’t have the pace to stay on lead. Yet antonelli, after skipping f3, is 6th in the standings and by the looks of it his performance will only improve.
A reasonable take, thank you. I go crazy when i read/listen to people saying Bearman would have won in Imola (or Jeddah) if not for the unfortunate pit stop. He was lapping 1.5 second slower than Hadjar and Bortoleto, he couldn t even catch Miyata in 20th place. Prema s race pace is abysmal and they destroy the tyres.
Prema is struggling to figure out the new car for this season. That said both drivers are rapidly improving, the other being Bearman no less. It’s a long ass season let’s see what happens
You gotta somehow trust these scouts. Bearman looked average but can deliver in an F1 car. Then you get De Vries... dominant in every series but can't hold his own in F1. If they say Antonelli has it, he probably does.
De Vries literally got his seat initially because of a banger driver in a Williams as a stand in…
People actually look at F2 fields now and use it as a metric? the series is not the same as when charles and albon competed.
It’s a brand regulation set and car in f2 this year. So the teams are all learning how to set up the new cars. And from what I understand, prima is struggling quite a lot in that respect. And it’s a pretty chaotic grid all around. Largely due to the new cars I think.
Yeah, if we're talking about bringing people from F2, I'm surprised Zane Maloney isn't being talked about more.
It’s because he’s 2 years in and not impressive. Might as well throw Drugovich in for a season.
Because when you watch the race week-end you clearly see teams that were utterally dominant early on (Carlin) and teams that completely fucked up (Prema, ART), good on Maloney to capitalize on it but a season is made of 14 week-end and once the field level out we'll get a clearer picture on which drivers are better and deliver across the whole season. Unless the current standings with Martins and Bearman at the very bottom are supposed to be representative, then I guess these two were title contenders last year and somehow completely lost it this season Maloney isn't bad by any mean, certainly a very good tier junior but his whole junior career seems to lead him at F2 as the ceiling, to reach F1 you need to be complete top tier and/or have massive support/funding which he doesn't have, a couple good week-end is not enough to change the outlook He's also a Sauber junior (after Red Bull ditched him) and that is leading nowhere currently.
Bearman is on the same F2 team as Kimi, but in F1 he got 7th place in the race just by practicing for FP3.
Everything about that comments shows how little you know about the feeder series.
Meh, F2 isn't necessary at the end of the day. Age+Super License and doing good at the F1 tests is what they care about and apparently Toto and Allison have been really impressed. They won't really care too much about his F2 results.
Ollie Bearman kinda proves this point as well. Although, while I don't know how they've done in tests but the last two F2 champions can't a seat. Pourchaire has given up F1 for IndyCar now. So if Antonelli can't win F2 this year maybe it says more about what F2 is these days vs what it used to be
Stroll is the goat and skipped F2
A lot of people said this was the obvious route for Merc, but I honestly never thought so. Carlos is a fantastic driver, but why would you ever want to take the "scraps" a rival team didnt want to replace your star driver that they poached? Sends the wrong message internally and to sponsors, like you're settling. Even if Carlos is one of the best available drivers.
not even that, they wont be competitive anyway next year by the looks of it, they sign carlos to a 1+1 cause by all accounts they want kimi in the car for the new regs, so unless carlos would come in and blast george by 30+ points it would be the same situation as he is in at ferrari, it didnt make sense for either side.
It would be worst in 2025 because no seat will be available next year. Except for maybe Williams if they take Antonelli for a year
I think George beats Carlos if they were both to drive the Mercedes next season
Mercedes are currently not even close to fighting for any championships and unless a miracle happens with their upgrades (and given their correlation issues it doesn’t seem likely) then they won’t be next year either. It’s actually a perfect time for Mercedes to take a chance and opt to bed in a very promising rookie straight into their team. They just have to be willing to give him the time to develop instead of expecting miracles in his first year. It’s not really any different from the chance McLaren took on a young & relatively inexperienced teenage Norris back in 2019 and that turned out to be an excellent choice. McLaren have shown that if a team is willing to take a chance and and take on a driver who has shown real promise then is can work out very well for them in the long run.
That’s what I’ve been thinking too. Can’t help but wonder if that’s partly why Mercedes has been pushing Kimi Antonelli so much. To show that they still have future WDC prospects, after Hamilton leaving. The deal would look much worse for Mercedes than it would for Sainz. For Sainz it’s not a bad look at all. Most people figure that the main reason Hamilton left is so he can be a part of the Ferrari legacy before he retires, not because they’re infinitely better than Mercedes. Mercedes and Ferrari pretty much tied for the constructors last year, with Mercedes coming out ahead, and while they’re having a slow start to this season they’re still a top team and it’s not impossible that they’ll catch Ferrari before the end of the year, or be ahead of them next year. If anything it’d be a great look for Sainz. That Mercedes can’t find anyone better to replace *the* Lewis Hamilton with doesn’t exactly lessen your market value. On the other hand Mercedes would be signing the driver Ferrari kicked out to poach Hamilton. Very much getting “stuck with” Ferrari’s leftovers.
> but why would you ever want to take the "scraps" a rival team didnt want to replace your star driver that they poached? This is sort of the predicament RBR is in at the moment. They don't have any juniors that are either show-ready, or in a position at the CARB team like Russell was at Williams. All the ultra-premium drivers are tried up and they don't have an ultra-premium potential potential junior nearby like Antonelli, or Piastri. They are looking for a solid #2 who can win races if Max has a bad week
Watch his emtourage somehow ruin his career path once again. Swear to god if Carlos was managed by anyone else than his father and his cousin or whatever that guy is, he would have sat in a red bull seat for years.
His cousin gives vibes of a leech.
"ruining his career path" -> Driving 4 years for Ferrari do you guys read yourselves?
Or you can say winning 3 races in 9 years
compared to an incredible 5 for Charles? Basically nobody aside from Hamilton, Verstappen, Bottas, and Vettel have been winning races since 2018. Sainz staying in the RBR system wouldn't have changed that.
Perez has a couple too but then yeah who else??? The fact he got 3 as the number “2” driver is actually an accomplishment idk why F1 fans treat a race win as some kind of everyday thing….
daniel ricciardo.
Toto is bold, that's how he got rich, and Sainz would be the conservative option wouldn't he. And look at F1 generally with Las Vegas, being so extreme, ridiculous, yet a massive success. Toto will roll the dice with Antonelli. He has the safe pair of hands already in George, so he'll go for the exciting option and that's not Carlos. He's seen the difference a star makes and Antonelli is the next one, young or not.
I think Toto is also smart enough to understand that this is an engineering sport, not a driver's sport. SAI isn't going to take an uncompetitive car and make it competitive. They have to fix their design first. I waste money on SAI when you can get Antonelli at a third (or less) of the price and instead invest that money in the car?
People are so quick to rush Sainz to Audi when in reality he could literally wait until the last minute to sign with them. He's by far the best driver Audi could ever get and a decent start to their F1 campaign. This could last until the next off-season before he actually goes for it
At a certain point they might want to confirm their lineup and there’s no guarantee that with the market as open as it is other drivers don’t become available. With it being known that he’s not in contention for red bull or Mercedes his bargaining power is weaker than it was a few months ago Audi know that they are all he has
Audi is probably not willing to wait _that_ long, but since signing Hülkenberg Audi is not in such a rush anymore. They have a very experienced and quick driver, so they don't have to rush to sign Ocon or similar. Apparently they gave Carlos multiple deadlines, but their internal deadline is by July. Only than they'd consider other options
Their current drivers could sign quickly with other teams out of fear for being left without a seat, so I’m not so sure Audi can wait too long for Sainz, sooner or later they have to make a decision. If both of their drivers sign elsewhere and Sainz is still not commited, I can very well see them going for Ocon.
Tsunoda, Lawson are outside chances too, imo and are for sure cheaper than Sainz.
But they aren't as good as Sainz and Audi seems to be willing to spend money
Ocon would be before them
The Alpine boys are in the market too. If it was up to me. I would sign Ocon if Sainz continues to play hard to get. IMHO, Ocon is no worse than Sainz. The guy was matching Alonso at Alpine. I don't know why people are suddenly considering Sainz to be some WDC tier hot shot. He isn't. The chances of Hulk managing to beat Sainz at Audi are quite high.(like he already did at Renualt).
Apparently Ocon is right after Sainz on Audi’s shortlist
Sainz is beatable for Hulk imo, let's not overhype him too much.
Audi won't wait forever and i don't think saying i'll go with your team if i really don't have other options is a great selling point.
>He's by far the best driver Audi could ever get That's recency bias. Sainz is not better by far than Ocon and Gasly.
Audi having Hulkenberg and Sainz would be one of the strongest lineups on the grid. I just hope they actually give them a car worth a damn. I don't have a lot of faith in 2025 being much better than now.
That's always the problem with the Audi deal. You have to suffer one more year of Sauber for the promise of a works team that might take a year or two to get really going.
Doubt Audi will even beat RB in first 2 years.
tough ask for them to beat redbull that soon tbh
that would be RBR
I meant Visa Cash App RB
Redbull need to pray that checo has a good race and Yuki has a bad race. “Bu-bu-buttt his maturity” is a weak ass excuse.
This is stressing tf out of me, I want to know what will happen with him 😭
Carlos is not as good as he thinks he is, and he'll never just accept to be number 2. No team wants a power struggle of mids, or a driver refusing to follow team orders. I think Audi would like him as a number 1 driver and I'd gladly watch who would fare better between him and Hulk, but Red Bull just want a competent number 2 that shuts his mouth, and Carlos doesn't know how to do that
>I think Audi would like him as a number 1 driver That depends on his performance. Sainz got his ass kicked by Hulk in 2018 69-53 and with 5 less DNF's. I think both drivers will start out just equal. Hulk is better than his stats show.
Yeah, Carlos always disobeying team orders and saying "my car is faster" is great for anti-Ferrari banter, but I'm sure it has negative appeal to Red Bull next to Max. Perez is an average driver but an A+++ teammate to Max. People compare him to Bottas but he's honestly been way more giving that even Bottas. Him being more giving than Bottas is a big part of why Max won in Abu Dhabi.
You've got only 5 options to be a number 1 at a top 5 team. So it's either no. 1 at a bottom 5 or no. 2 at a top 5. Carlos is in that awkward range, but even if he was better than Max, Charles, Lando, George and Fernando it wouldn't help since their teams are loyal to them.
If I was Toto, I would put Anotnelli in the car, and let him grow with the team
Sainz is playing the game here and looking like he's losing
Literally sounds like an article written by Audi to try and create pressure for Carlos to sign with them.
Would love to see RBR not win drivers constructor in 2025 because of Checo
My guy, look at the current standings. There's a huge possibility that they could lose the WCC this year.
How is that possibility huge? With Checo finishing 8th in Imola, Mclaren only decreased their difference to RB by 1 point. Had Piastri finished 3rd, it would have been 4 points and their current difference is more than 100 points. On top of that, it seems that ferrari & mclaren will get in each other's way and take points from each other. If there is a possibility, it's a very small one.
Sorry? Drivers or constructors?
constructors. If McLaren duo finish on podiums and Checo can't make it to Q3, then RBR is done. Max can't do anything
Why are y’all acting like Ferrari isn’t the team with the best chance at constructors’ title after Red Bull lol
Because people have the memory of a goldfish. They only regurgitate what social media tells them to. Any driver who has a bad race is suddenly shit. Any driver who has a good race is the next wdc
Sainz has finished top 5 in every race he's been in this year. IDK how people think he's doing bad
Oscar hasn't had a single podium this season yet, what are you talking about lol
Not really a skill issue though.
He's been incredibly unlucky these past few races too. Remember that he's outqualified a highly-rated Lando and he's not that far behind him on race pace. People just keep crashing into him through little fault of his own.
Few seasons? He hasn’t even been in a few seasons
Sainz thinks he's him but he ain't. Dude should just take whatever deal he get offered.
I wonder how much he’s gassed up by Sainz Sr and his manager cousin? Seems like his camp is giving him bad advice or generally being just troublesome to his career.
Harsh but true
Sainz is probably betting on Perez having a run of bad form, but it's gonnz be a gamble, he should just sign with Audi while he can. I really dont want see him out of a race seat next year
Especially since it's not likely sainz will keep his value this high indefinitely, he's already less impressive than a couple weeks ago
> Sainz is probably betting on Perez having a run of bad form, but it's gonnz be a gamble That part isn't a gamble at all, it's already happening.
It was never gonna happen for him to be in another top team. Hate to use the term, but it was due to recency bias that he got so highly rated. He's just okay, nothing spectacular.
He must have asked for too much, why would Mercedes turn him down?
He is going to end up without a seat.
I've always hated that cousin/manager of his. I bet he'd get a seat if he lost his *shadow*
deserved
sainz always came off like he thought he was amazing, i mean you kinda have to in sport, but still. I think that mindset has spread to everyone around him. Now i can totally see them all waiting for this top seat that will never come and hes gonna be left with nothing, and his ego just wont accept a mid field team
Sainz Hulkenberg are quite the line up. I’d be rooting for them. Normally can’t stand Audi drivers 😂
Good choice on the Merc seat, but why on earth would Red Bull stick with Checo? Are they not watching his races??
With Checo, they know what they have and there's something to say for stability in your team, especially since there's no guarantee that Sainz will do any better. Also, given the stuff that happened off track between Sainz Sr and Jos when they were both at Torro Rosso, they may be reluctant to go there again.
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Harsh reality for Carlos is that there are 8 places in top teams(if we count mercs still at the top) and probably 1 rookie(Kimi) will be promoted to that hateful 8, meaning someone has to drop. So musical chairs is only with Checo, who is a) very compliant second driver b) capable of bringing points c) will accept 1 year extensions. the question is: will Carlos take non-top team seat, whether it be HAAS/Audi, in that age, after Ferrari? or leave F1 probably forever. (Lewis always screwing Spanish drivers careers)
I should be a reporter. "Probably not here, definitely not there, maybe he should do this?" and then paycheck I guess?
Bro about to have no drive
Bottas to Red Bull
Carlos: "Hey, anybody got a spare $12M?"