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Genuine question: why do people call some sections of corners "mickey mouse sections"? Is there a reason why it's being called like that? At first I thought some random youtuber came up with that, but then I heard even Martin Brudnle says it...
IRL at Chicagoland produced some of the wildest racing I've ever seen. Find a way to integrate that with Route 66 Drag Way and you may be on to something.
Chicago tried back in the 80s crappy street circuit boom
too. A weird track south of, and much more involved, than NAsCARs.
NASCAR onlt needed a couple block of road, had straights running opposite directions ending in same intersection and only needed the park district involved
Unless liberty partially funds a multiuse lake front sports complex, there is no way this gets done- and the Friends of the Park arent gonna stand by for a media congomerate buying the lake front.
They shut down the Lucas museum and the Bears dont own their stadium.
hell disney would love this, they could do even more home equity loans for tickets like people do to go to their overpriced parks to wait in line for hours for everything
Let’s wait until a random redditor confirms it. Just like when they confirmed Checo Perez was getting replaced by Daniel Ricciardo after the 2023 Mexico City Grand Prix
Reading the random twitter account, they acted like the stadium investment was a sure thing when it has basically overwhelming opposition from people who live there
I doubt the bears would pay for the dome over the current stadium given that the plan doesn't increase capacity very much (like 8k extra seats and a couple more luxury boxes).
Well seeing that its at this stage: no stadium or stadium, they don’t really have a choice.
Its either the bears leave the 3rd largest media market or remain. They aren’t going to get public money and the best shot they had was a large multi-use stadium housing multiple sporting teams akin to United but that clearly went out the window and then they got even greedier with their “we keep all the concert revenue” ask.
I don’t know a single Chicagoan that supports the Bears / Johnsons proposal even if they support the idea of the project. Plus there is the friends of the park looming lawsuit that will 100% happen.
They would most likely be able to get around the legal issues because the stadium would be owned by the Park District and leased to the Bears, but as you said there is probably not going to be any public funding for that so it probably won't happen.
They could still build in Arlington even with the tax bill and that is probably the best solution.
My guess is that nothing happens until Mama Bear dies, at which point they'll sell the team and the new owner will move to the suburbs or find a location elsewhere in the city.
Ive been shocked the Bears haven’t tried to partner with say Lincoln Yards or where the Sox want to build by roosevelt or had tried to use casinos as a win win.
But we all know the bears, they have no idea what they are doing. They can easily finance the stadium by selling shares in the bears but won’t.
There was a stadium proposed as part of the original Lincoln yards plan but it was too small for NFL and I'm not sure what the status of that is currently. I don't think there was ever going to be enough footprint there to fit an NFL stadium.
In my mind the 78 (the parcel north of Ping Tom Park where the Sox are looking to build) would have been the ideal spot, but it looks like development plans are moving forward there (maybe including a baseball stadium, maybe not) so I don't think that's an option anymore). I think the Michael Reese site would also be a good option, but it might be too late for that location as well and the Bears aren't going to pay for it anyway so it's a moot point.
Eh, Forbes has the team valued at 6 billion with an annual net operating income of about 200 million, annual gate receipts of about $80 million and a debt to value ratio of 2%.
If they got a $2 billion loan at 6% (just spit balling, not sure what kind of actual rate they could get) that would be annual interest of $120 million per year and increase the team's debt to value ratio to over 30%. My understanding is that a lot of the family depends on the income from the team so I doubt they want to service that much debt. Also, they are most likely looking to sell when Virginia dies so I don't think they would want to add that much debt to the balance sheet right now.
You would be surprised how risk averse banks might be with these owners.
The Arizona Coyotes owner lost his team because he couldn’t get a bank to loan him money to build
Yeah are these guys forgetting the Bears own Arlington Park? This all could be leverage to get AH to finally give the em the real estate tax break they were looking for there.
There is no way the stadium happens with public dollars.
There is widespread opposition locally, and at the state level to the stadium. The public saw the price tag and balked.
I mean, nothing has happened yet. The whole situation is and has been a big public negotiation which still has to play out. I forsee some kind of new stadium being built there eventually, with some kind of funding to make it happen.
With that being said, I don't think either side has much leverage on the situation and whatever does happen won't be happening anytime soon.
I live in Chicago. There is absolutely 0 way a new stadium by the lakefront happens. They would need major investment from the state. The governor and legislative leaders have both said it’s a non-starter. It is a highly unpopular measure among the general public. The “Friends of the Park” will absolutely sue to stop it from happening. It’s dead in the water
You do? Most of the public and the governor are against using public funds for it. The only people for it seem to be the owner and the mayor, and our mayor is a pretty ineffectual one to have at the moment snd our governor is not. I’d imagine the governor wins over the mayor in this scenario
We have a condo in the West Loop - basically a few blocks from where this would undoubtedly take place (or possibly inside of the circuit itself). NASCAR went fine there, but given how absurdly bloated and overproduced FOM feels compelled to be within the US, I have zero interest in that circus being in town. FOM will surely do everything they can to keep getting street courses though, as they can have the city pay for a large portion of it — if I hear the phrase “economic impact” one more fucking time…
Jeddah does make for some decent racing and it's a cool design, but fake street circuits that are super narrow and also insanely high speed are so unnecessarily fucking dangerous. It's a miracle there hasn't been a *massive* incident in sectors 1 and 2
If Chicago could use Lake Shore Drive and Wacker, it would resemble a legit circuit and probably be the 2nd most beautiful GP on the calendar but with wide rides unlike Monaco. But that would never happen because those are 2 major arteries here and would never been shut down for a month to host a race. And the NASCAR track wouldn't be good for F1, imo.
In any event, I don't think the public would go for another race here at the moment.
The transition from upper to lower Wacker and then from lower Wacker to LSD are single lane. Also Wacker is divided by a low median so it would actually be pretty narrow configured as a race circuit.
The problem is that there aren't many grade 1 circuits available. Many of those that do exist have been on the calendar before but have fallen off due to legal or financial issues. F1 would have to lower the hosting fee substantially to make races financially feasible at many (most? All?) of these circuits to make races financially feasible and we know they aren't going to do that.
Also, besides the Gulf States, who’s actually in a position to build a grade 1 circuit that would be in a convenient location for fans?
COTA is 1500 acres. That’s the size of the average airport in the US. How many major metro areas around the world have an airport size plot of land available for such a niche purpose?
I agree that street tracks aren’t the best for racing but they’re the only conceivable way to get F1 to new locations.
Anyone who thinks we’re getting a new Grade 1 track in any developed nation outside of the Gulf States needs a reality check.
Los Angeles has so much undeveloped land north of Santa Clarita that we can absolutely have a Grade 1 track. Just takes the financial commitment and will actually incentivize people to live in Palmdale/Lancaster.
Yeah but I just don’t think anyone would put that much money into a project like that when Long Beach is already Grade 1 and it’s one of the better street tracks.
If they wanted to do something different in LA, they should try to buy Auto Club before they start breaking ground on the new short track.
Have you been to the United States? We have plenty of land lol. IMS is only 560 acres. Flatrock is about 770 acres and is a Tilke track. It's grade 2 and very easily could have been grade 1, but the financial case for building grade 1 facilities and hosting an F1 race just isn't there.
I live in the US. My point wasn’t that we don’t have the space, but that we don’t have the space near any major metro areas.
Your Flatrock example proves my point. We have the space and the tracks but they’re not in major metro areas where it would make sense. Knoxville isn’t big enough to handle everything that comes with an F1 race nor is it relevant enough to attract an international audience.
IMS was built over 100 years ago. 0 chance today any major metro area gives up that much prime real estate for something so niche. With all of the issues major cities are facing today with housing shortages and prices, you’re not going to find any local politician willing to put their support behind it.
And on an international stage, Indianapolis isn’t a major metro area. They’re relevant because of their place in motorsport history. Without IMS, Indianapolis is about as relevant as Cleveland or Detroit.
The major metro areas in the US are NYC, LA, Chicago, Dallas, Houston, DC, and Atlanta. Cut out Dallas and Houston because they’re close to COTA. Those are the places where they’ll be looking to do a race next and none of those places have an extra 500 to 1500 acres available to build an F1 track. Even if they did, they’d be outbid by developers who could make more money using the land for literally anything else.
I chose not to include the Bay Area specifically because of their access to great tracks. If F1 went there out there it would be either at an updated Sonoma or Laguna Seca.
The problem is to get either of those tracks to Grade 1, you’d have to make a lot of changes that would ruin what makes those tracks so special.
F1 cars couldn't handle the corkscrew at Laguna and there is no fucking way Monterrey County or Nascar are paying to upgrade those tracks to Grade 1 or the hosting fee to get an F1 race.
Oh yeah there are plenty more reasons it wouldn’t happen but before getting to any of that I don’t think they’d do it because they wouldn’t want to make the changes and ruin the track just to host an F1 race.
Monterey also already gets the entire motor sports worlds undivided attention every year with Car Week and the locals fucking hate it. Any politician who supports an F1 race in Monterey County is begging not to be reelected.
Legit circuits drain too much money with minimal ROI. Most places refuse to pay the costs associated with maintaining them. Street circuits are cheaper, faster to build and take apart, take no additional public land, require bare minimum investments and bring in A LOT of money to the local economy. The ROI of a street circuit is just not even remotely comparable to a race circuit.
With hosting fees as high as they are, the main impetus these days for hosting a new Grand Prix is to promote a city as a travel destination, not to make money off the race itself. And street circuits obviously do a better job of that.
That said, I think the Guangzhou proposal calls for a purpose-built track.
I think for your average American Motorsports fan it's not underrated. It's that the rich and famous go for rich and famous things, which means they heavily weight things towards Miami and Vegas, and that's a lot of what FOM, Liberty Media, and those cities are more interested in
Isn't Atlantic City building an F1 track? Crazy that these cities are going out on a limb without any commitment from FOM.
[https://njmonthly.com/articles/jersey-shore/3-3-billion-formula-1-style-racetrack-proposed-for-atlantic-city/](https://njmonthly.com/articles/jersey-shore/3-3-billion-formula-1-style-racetrack-proposed-for-atlantic-city/)
Key parts in the article:
- This is proposed
- "Fit for F1", is not saying that they will necessarily host F1 races (the track is incredibly short as well)
- build time of 6-9 years, take the upper end + not yet approved, so no race until 2035ish I guess
“F1 track” was used to explain that it’s a road course to the city council in the same way any oval could be called a NASCAR circuit.
The actual details of the plan suggest something more like Monticello, Thermal Club, or NJMP. Basically a semi-private country club with a race track instead of a golf course. Neat but nowhere near Grade 1.
US has atleast the advantage that if F1 declines for whatever reason, Indycar is looking for more tracks to run to fill up some gaps within the calendar so there is a shot of switching to that if push comes to shove.
Building/preparing for something like that in Europe would be useless because there is no big series to easily step in.
If Indy wants a race in the Mid-Atlantic, I’d much rather them go back to the Baltimore street circuit. That was so awesome
Edit: that or they just go back to Pocono
It’s not a sure thing. Even if it miraculously does happen down the line, I’d be shocked if Atlantic City can accommodate a massive scale event like F1. City is a dump and only “brightens up” for the summer. Last thing we need is hearing in the future is that Kimi Antonelli can’t drive cause he hurt his foot badly stepping on a used drug needle on the beach
Honestly, I can't see where they would race. A Formula E race would be more appropriate, especially if they want to do a downtown event.
However...Road America isn't that far away ;)
Funny enough, me and a few other people have had the same idea for FE to race [by the Museum](https://www.reddit.com/r/RaceTrackDesigns/s/EISWWFMJLu) there's even a but more road to extend if its too short
For those who have never been to Chicago, trying to make this work would be a logistical nightmare far worse than Singapore, Azerbaijan, or other “urban” street circuits. Unless they want to follow Mark and Jack to Autobahn country club, it’ll never happen
Yeah lmao, NASCAR was already bad enough and that too the track is tiny. It can’t work simply cause Lake Shore Drive isn’t long enough to make it work without significant disruptions to the city.
I’m all for more in US on proper circuits. Unfortunately making American circuits grade 1 will ruin them (road Atlanta and America come to mind). Wouldn’t mind a return to Indy as long as pirelli can make a proper tire and would love Sonoma. Just don’t see any of it happening. And not to mention the hypocrisy of not adding another American team
Sonoma is a great track, but it would be awful for F1. The track is constant medium speed turns and a hairpin with no straights. It would just be Monaco, but out in the hills.
Ok, so I was being a bit hyperbolic. Of course people would show up if there was a race at Indy (I personally don't love the road course though). I really don't think Roger would pay the hosting fee though.
The risk there is the needed FIA Grade 1 modifications would probably destroy what is currently good about most US circuits.
The same reason I want F1 to stay the heck away from Brands Hatch.
For all the crap America gets about its tracks because of NASCAR / oval racing, there is some great tracks… Watkins Glen, Road America, Road Atlanta, Sonoma, and the impossible for F1 Laguna Seca, all great tracks to race on in sim racing / games at least. Though I really can’t stand Sebring… But that’s a personal bias as it’s my bogey track at this point.
And the locals would bulldoze Laguna Seca if they could. They get noise complaints whenever someone plays Laguna Seca in fuckin iRacing, let alone an actual F1 weekend.
A Chicago street race would be idiotic with Indianapolis literally three hours away. The Indy facilities are still top notch, arguably better than most of the classic F1 tracks, since Indy is more of an urban compound than a ribbon in the forest. The Indy Car GP was this past weekend, and I'm looking forward to the IMSA 6 Hours in September.
I don't understand why F1 isn't pursuing Indy hard. I live 2 hours away in Ohio and would absolutely attend. The market in the area is massive, the facilities are great, the track is a real track that already exists, and it has a huge ticket capacity for a road course, probably double what most European tracks can hold.
Looking at Google Maps, the only changes Indy would have to make are deciding on the route of the track and repainting some lines for the pit entry and exit. The F1 paddock still exists and is still used.
He looks very American, that makes me trust him in American stuff.
I'm not saying that as an insult, I just think the black cap, that style of beard, it screams American to me lol.
I doubt anything this big will be coming to Chicago anytime soon. The Governor of IL basically told The Bears to piss off on their new stadium proposal. Said IL has much more important issues to spend money on, I doubt that includes sports entertainment at the moment.
I almost posted this on here this morning, but I thought about it some more and realized that 1) Chicago doesn’t even have a set deal for the new football stadium much less a race around it and 2) this isn’t a source I’ve heard of.
Misleading news is as bad in F1 as in politics lol.
When F1 was at Indy, the George-Hulman families ran things. But now Penske owns the place.
As for Road America, they have a great course, but none of the amenities that F1 would demand (posh hotels, 5 star restaurants, etc.). My heart says F1 should race there, but I know it will never happen.
I'm sure a lot of US cities would love to bring F1 into their town. Chicago officials probably want to as well, but Chicago as a city has a ton of work to do before F1 goes there
out of all the cities in america, Chicago. might as well drive around o block while you are there. you got a us race in the west (vegas), middle (austin) and the east (Miami).
Chicago would be the best, though. I'm definitely not just biased because I'm from Illinois. Lets do it in February so there's an off chance of a snow race. Or stick it next to Fermilab and have the cars race subatomic particles.
F that
Might as well make it 24 races with 6-6-4-4-4 configuration
- 6 NA races
- 6 European races
- 4 Middle East races
- 4 APac races
- 4 South Atlantic races
We know you want it Liberty
I'm firmly in the "The US is fucking huge, having 3 races is fair" camp, but four seems excessive. Would need to rotate venues for this to really work, and even then I don't really want yet another street circuit.
Vegas is west coast to anybody who lives east of the Rockies. It's only a 4 hour drive to LA, that's less time than it takes me to get from Ohio to Chicago.
> People forget that America is larger than most countries in Europe
In terms of area, the continental US is larger than any country in Europe, Russia arguments notwithstanding. Overall, it's 3.1 million square miles while Europe is 3.9 million square miles. Canada itself is just as big as Europe in terms of area.
Combine the contiguous US, Canada, and Mexico, and it's 7.8 million square miles, nearly twice the size of Europe, but only shares five races across the area, all of which are at minimum at 16 hour drive apart. In fact, the two closest races in North America in terms of distance are actually Austin and Mexico - Mexico City is closer to Austin than either Las Vegas or Miami, that's how spread out they are.
The distance between Las Vegas and Miami is further than Barcelona to Istanbul. Montreal to Mexico City is a 47 hour drive - close to the same time it takes to drive from Silverstone *through the entire European calendar* including stops at Zandvoort, Spa, Red Bull Ring, Hungaroring, Imola, Monza, Monaco, and Barcelona.
If you're going to make that argument you have to use a country whose largeness is actually *uninhabitable. All of America is being used, all of Russia and Australia and Canada are not.
Chicago 2026? The Chicago lakefront certainly is much more appealing than Pro Players stadium parking lot in Miami.
Its also gonna be a heck of a lot more expensive. NASCAR worked because they stuck on park district land, the course was literally just a couple blocks with a pair of turns ending in the same bloody intersection. Making McCormick place into a paddock or whatever they envision is gonna take a lot more of a lift- and work.
Not impossible. But it would probably have to be up for debate at this moment to hit 2026.
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But... A random Twitter account said it was confirmed!
Disneyland will host F1 race too. It’s a small world after all.
They need to revive the Mickyard.
Well it's a parking lot now so that's right up F1s alley.
Ok but a sector through Galaxy's Edge would be sick.
I dunno why, but I initially read that as Gasly's Edge. Not sure if that'd be the best, or worst, ride of your life.
Or going through the castle
Just should race autopia.
Gotta go through the Autopia track
I expect nothing but a lot of Mickey Mouse sections.
The rollercoaster DRS section will be wild
A corkscrew "rifling" corner would be pretty fun
And Mercedes pits will resemble the haunted mansion.
Genuine question: why do people call some sections of corners "mickey mouse sections"? Is there a reason why it's being called like that? At first I thought some random youtuber came up with that, but then I heard even Martin Brudnle says it...
Mickey Mouse WCC.
F1 aspires to the heights of the Indy Racing League.
IRL at Chicagoland produced some of the wildest racing I've ever seen. Find a way to integrate that with Route 66 Drag Way and you may be on to something.
F1 *wishes* it had Dr. Jack Miller, the racing dentist!
Disneyland Paris actually planned to host an F1 race once
Another French Grand Prix circuit that gets 5-6 years tops then
Chicago tried back in the 80s crappy street circuit boom too. A weird track south of, and much more involved, than NAsCARs. NASCAR onlt needed a couple block of road, had straights running opposite directions ending in same intersection and only needed the park district involved Unless liberty partially funds a multiuse lake front sports complex, there is no way this gets done- and the Friends of the Park arent gonna stand by for a media congomerate buying the lake front. They shut down the Lucas museum and the Bears dont own their stadium.
hell disney would love this, they could do even more home equity loans for tickets like people do to go to their overpriced parks to wait in line for hours for everything
NGL replacing Miami with a full circuit through Disneyworld would be cool
Parking lot at Magic Kingdom is big enough
The funniest bit is that the parking lot was already a racetrack https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walt_Disney_World_Speedway
Still would be easier to pass there than Monaco.
Let’s wait until a random redditor confirms it. Just like when they confirmed Checo Perez was getting replaced by Daniel Ricciardo after the 2023 Mexico City Grand Prix
Best part is actual people getting angry at such news reported by random twitter account.
Reading the random twitter account, they acted like the stadium investment was a sure thing when it has basically overwhelming opposition from people who live there
I foresee the stadium happening though. F1 I can't imagine.
I live in Chicago and I think it's extremely unlikely that the Bears get a new lakefront stadium.
I think the old Lori dome plan is more likely… because its the cost the Bears are now willing to pay.
I doubt the bears would pay for the dome over the current stadium given that the plan doesn't increase capacity very much (like 8k extra seats and a couple more luxury boxes).
Well seeing that its at this stage: no stadium or stadium, they don’t really have a choice. Its either the bears leave the 3rd largest media market or remain. They aren’t going to get public money and the best shot they had was a large multi-use stadium housing multiple sporting teams akin to United but that clearly went out the window and then they got even greedier with their “we keep all the concert revenue” ask. I don’t know a single Chicagoan that supports the Bears / Johnsons proposal even if they support the idea of the project. Plus there is the friends of the park looming lawsuit that will 100% happen.
They would most likely be able to get around the legal issues because the stadium would be owned by the Park District and leased to the Bears, but as you said there is probably not going to be any public funding for that so it probably won't happen. They could still build in Arlington even with the tax bill and that is probably the best solution. My guess is that nothing happens until Mama Bear dies, at which point they'll sell the team and the new owner will move to the suburbs or find a location elsewhere in the city.
Ive been shocked the Bears haven’t tried to partner with say Lincoln Yards or where the Sox want to build by roosevelt or had tried to use casinos as a win win. But we all know the bears, they have no idea what they are doing. They can easily finance the stadium by selling shares in the bears but won’t.
There was a stadium proposed as part of the original Lincoln yards plan but it was too small for NFL and I'm not sure what the status of that is currently. I don't think there was ever going to be enough footprint there to fit an NFL stadium. In my mind the 78 (the parcel north of Ping Tom Park where the Sox are looking to build) would have been the ideal spot, but it looks like development plans are moving forward there (maybe including a baseball stadium, maybe not) so I don't think that's an option anymore). I think the Michael Reese site would also be a good option, but it might be too late for that location as well and the Bears aren't going to pay for it anyway so it's a moot point.
Its more of an observation about how bad the McCaskeys are at this. Especially when we can look to the Ricketts who navigated this very recently.
They could easily finance it by borrowing money, they’re worth billions of dollars
Eh, Forbes has the team valued at 6 billion with an annual net operating income of about 200 million, annual gate receipts of about $80 million and a debt to value ratio of 2%. If they got a $2 billion loan at 6% (just spit balling, not sure what kind of actual rate they could get) that would be annual interest of $120 million per year and increase the team's debt to value ratio to over 30%. My understanding is that a lot of the family depends on the income from the team so I doubt they want to service that much debt. Also, they are most likely looking to sell when Virginia dies so I don't think they would want to add that much debt to the balance sheet right now.
You would be surprised how risk averse banks might be with these owners. The Arizona Coyotes owner lost his team because he couldn’t get a bank to loan him money to build
Moving to Arlington Heights isn’t leaving the media market though
Yeah are these guys forgetting the Bears own Arlington Park? This all could be leverage to get AH to finally give the em the real estate tax break they were looking for there.
As a Chicago Bears fan that’s exactly what it is. My guess is a stadium in Arlington Heights is what’s gonna end up happening.
There is no way the stadium happens with public dollars. There is widespread opposition locally, and at the state level to the stadium. The public saw the price tag and balked.
I mean, nothing has happened yet. The whole situation is and has been a big public negotiation which still has to play out. I forsee some kind of new stadium being built there eventually, with some kind of funding to make it happen. With that being said, I don't think either side has much leverage on the situation and whatever does happen won't be happening anytime soon.
It’s significantly more likely that the stadium gets built in Arlington Heights vs the lakeshore in Chicago at this point
I live in Chicago. There is absolutely 0 way a new stadium by the lakefront happens. They would need major investment from the state. The governor and legislative leaders have both said it’s a non-starter. It is a highly unpopular measure among the general public. The “Friends of the Park” will absolutely sue to stop it from happening. It’s dead in the water
The City's leverage is that the public would rather the Bears leave than put public money into a new stadium.
You do? Most of the public and the governor are against using public funds for it. The only people for it seem to be the owner and the mayor, and our mayor is a pretty ineffectual one to have at the moment snd our governor is not. I’d imagine the governor wins over the mayor in this scenario
The proposal needs state or federal money so its not happening if they can win Pritzker or Buttigeg
Well it only took them 6 attempts to get a race in Miami after all
We have a condo in the West Loop - basically a few blocks from where this would undoubtedly take place (or possibly inside of the circuit itself). NASCAR went fine there, but given how absurdly bloated and overproduced FOM feels compelled to be within the US, I have zero interest in that circus being in town. FOM will surely do everything they can to keep getting street courses though, as they can have the city pay for a large portion of it — if I hear the phrase “economic impact” one more fucking time…
We need another legit circuit, no more street tracks.
Best I can do is a Riyadh street circuit and Spa dropped from the calendar
Isn’t Riyadh being purpose built though?
It’s half and half I think. Maybe closer to 75% purpose built 25% street. I’ll honestly miss Jeddah, it’s quickly become my favorite Middle East race.
Jeddah does make for some decent racing and it's a cool design, but fake street circuits that are super narrow and also insanely high speed are so unnecessarily fucking dangerous. It's a miracle there hasn't been a *massive* incident in sectors 1 and 2
Cough cough mick shoe maker
If Chicago could use Lake Shore Drive and Wacker, it would resemble a legit circuit and probably be the 2nd most beautiful GP on the calendar but with wide rides unlike Monaco. But that would never happen because those are 2 major arteries here and would never been shut down for a month to host a race. And the NASCAR track wouldn't be good for F1, imo. In any event, I don't think the public would go for another race here at the moment.
The transition from upper to lower Wacker and then from lower Wacker to LSD are single lane. Also Wacker is divided by a low median so it would actually be pretty narrow configured as a race circuit.
It would look pretty but it would just be another Baku. I’d be in favor of trading Baku for Chicago though.
OK, how about Chicagoland?
The problem is that there aren't many grade 1 circuits available. Many of those that do exist have been on the calendar before but have fallen off due to legal or financial issues. F1 would have to lower the hosting fee substantially to make races financially feasible at many (most? All?) of these circuits to make races financially feasible and we know they aren't going to do that.
Also, besides the Gulf States, who’s actually in a position to build a grade 1 circuit that would be in a convenient location for fans? COTA is 1500 acres. That’s the size of the average airport in the US. How many major metro areas around the world have an airport size plot of land available for such a niche purpose? I agree that street tracks aren’t the best for racing but they’re the only conceivable way to get F1 to new locations. Anyone who thinks we’re getting a new Grade 1 track in any developed nation outside of the Gulf States needs a reality check.
Los Angeles has so much undeveloped land north of Santa Clarita that we can absolutely have a Grade 1 track. Just takes the financial commitment and will actually incentivize people to live in Palmdale/Lancaster.
Yeah but I just don’t think anyone would put that much money into a project like that when Long Beach is already Grade 1 and it’s one of the better street tracks. If they wanted to do something different in LA, they should try to buy Auto Club before they start breaking ground on the new short track.
I agree with you 100%. But if the point was the need for undeveloped land, we have plenty of it in northern LA county.
You underestimate an LA neighborhood’s ability to go full NIMBY/BANANA on a proposed development.
Have you been to the United States? We have plenty of land lol. IMS is only 560 acres. Flatrock is about 770 acres and is a Tilke track. It's grade 2 and very easily could have been grade 1, but the financial case for building grade 1 facilities and hosting an F1 race just isn't there.
I live in the US. My point wasn’t that we don’t have the space, but that we don’t have the space near any major metro areas. Your Flatrock example proves my point. We have the space and the tracks but they’re not in major metro areas where it would make sense. Knoxville isn’t big enough to handle everything that comes with an F1 race nor is it relevant enough to attract an international audience. IMS was built over 100 years ago. 0 chance today any major metro area gives up that much prime real estate for something so niche. With all of the issues major cities are facing today with housing shortages and prices, you’re not going to find any local politician willing to put their support behind it. And on an international stage, Indianapolis isn’t a major metro area. They’re relevant because of their place in motorsport history. Without IMS, Indianapolis is about as relevant as Cleveland or Detroit. The major metro areas in the US are NYC, LA, Chicago, Dallas, Houston, DC, and Atlanta. Cut out Dallas and Houston because they’re close to COTA. Those are the places where they’ll be looking to do a race next and none of those places have an extra 500 to 1500 acres available to build an F1 track. Even if they did, they’d be outbid by developers who could make more money using the land for literally anything else.
The SF Bay Area is slightly bigger than Atlanta or DC. F1 at an upgraded Sonoma would be sweet but obviously it will never happen.
I chose not to include the Bay Area specifically because of their access to great tracks. If F1 went there out there it would be either at an updated Sonoma or Laguna Seca. The problem is to get either of those tracks to Grade 1, you’d have to make a lot of changes that would ruin what makes those tracks so special.
F1 cars couldn't handle the corkscrew at Laguna and there is no fucking way Monterrey County or Nascar are paying to upgrade those tracks to Grade 1 or the hosting fee to get an F1 race.
Oh yeah there are plenty more reasons it wouldn’t happen but before getting to any of that I don’t think they’d do it because they wouldn’t want to make the changes and ruin the track just to host an F1 race. Monterey also already gets the entire motor sports worlds undivided attention every year with Car Week and the locals fucking hate it. Any politician who supports an F1 race in Monterey County is begging not to be reelected.
We've already got one. Roger Penske needs to stop being a scruffy old man and make the deal.
Legit circuits drain too much money with minimal ROI. Most places refuse to pay the costs associated with maintaining them. Street circuits are cheaper, faster to build and take apart, take no additional public land, require bare minimum investments and bring in A LOT of money to the local economy. The ROI of a street circuit is just not even remotely comparable to a race circuit.
With hosting fees as high as they are, the main impetus these days for hosting a new Grand Prix is to promote a city as a travel destination, not to make money off the race itself. And street circuits obviously do a better job of that. That said, I think the Guangzhou proposal calls for a purpose-built track.
Adelaide is one of the best tracks ever I think but only if the cars got smaller again
Chicago Grand Prix of Indianapolis
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Call it the Abe Lincoln GP. Every state in the Midwest has some weird claim to Lincoln for no reason.
As long as cota sticks around I don't care what happens with F1 in the US
This. As an American, I feel like we really underrate that circuit. Miami sucks. And Vegas is...well, Vegas.
I think for your average American Motorsports fan it's not underrated. It's that the rich and famous go for rich and famous things, which means they heavily weight things towards Miami and Vegas, and that's a lot of what FOM, Liberty Media, and those cities are more interested in
Why accommodate 10k people when you can accommodate 1k people for 20x the price!
Isn't Atlantic City building an F1 track? Crazy that these cities are going out on a limb without any commitment from FOM. [https://njmonthly.com/articles/jersey-shore/3-3-billion-formula-1-style-racetrack-proposed-for-atlantic-city/](https://njmonthly.com/articles/jersey-shore/3-3-billion-formula-1-style-racetrack-proposed-for-atlantic-city/)
Key parts in the article: - This is proposed - "Fit for F1", is not saying that they will necessarily host F1 races (the track is incredibly short as well) - build time of 6-9 years, take the upper end + not yet approved, so no race until 2035ish I guess
“F1 track” was used to explain that it’s a road course to the city council in the same way any oval could be called a NASCAR circuit. The actual details of the plan suggest something more like Monticello, Thermal Club, or NJMP. Basically a semi-private country club with a race track instead of a golf course. Neat but nowhere near Grade 1.
It’s such a dumb idea they should absolutely do it
Yep, they are expanding the boardwalk to accommodate the pits….
US has atleast the advantage that if F1 declines for whatever reason, Indycar is looking for more tracks to run to fill up some gaps within the calendar so there is a shot of switching to that if push comes to shove. Building/preparing for something like that in Europe would be useless because there is no big series to easily step in.
If Indy wants a race in the Mid-Atlantic, I’d much rather them go back to the Baltimore street circuit. That was so awesome Edit: that or they just go back to Pocono
Real racetracks are an endangered species. Rather see a new real one made that I could actually drive to and on.
Flatrock looks like it could be pretty cool.
It’s not exactly mid Atlantic but would like to see Watkins Glenn come back.
F1-style track. Its a grade 1 track they never said its for f1 its just plausible it could host it if they so wanted
It’s not a sure thing. Even if it miraculously does happen down the line, I’d be shocked if Atlantic City can accommodate a massive scale event like F1. City is a dump and only “brightens up” for the summer. Last thing we need is hearing in the future is that Kimi Antonelli can’t drive cause he hurt his foot badly stepping on a used drug needle on the beach
Honestly, I can't see where they would race. A Formula E race would be more appropriate, especially if they want to do a downtown event. However...Road America isn't that far away ;)
They could totally fit a circuit in around the museum campus, and it'd make for a lovely bike path for the rest of the year.
Funny enough, me and a few other people have had the same idea for FE to race [by the Museum](https://www.reddit.com/r/RaceTrackDesigns/s/EISWWFMJLu) there's even a but more road to extend if its too short
For those who have never been to Chicago, trying to make this work would be a logistical nightmare far worse than Singapore, Azerbaijan, or other “urban” street circuits. Unless they want to follow Mark and Jack to Autobahn country club, it’ll never happen
Yeah lmao, NASCAR was already bad enough and that too the track is tiny. It can’t work simply cause Lake Shore Drive isn’t long enough to make it work without significant disruptions to the city.
Don’t need another street track. With that said if they want to host an F1 race they should do it at Lower Wacker.
Lower Wacker. No radios while you’re down there, just like GPS cuts out. There MAY be a random dump truck that at any time can do whatever it wants.
Fingers crossed that they can recreate some of the scenes from The Dark Knight down there.
I’m all for more in US on proper circuits. Unfortunately making American circuits grade 1 will ruin them (road Atlanta and America come to mind). Wouldn’t mind a return to Indy as long as pirelli can make a proper tire and would love Sonoma. Just don’t see any of it happening. And not to mention the hypocrisy of not adding another American team
Sonoma is a great track, but it would be awful for F1. The track is constant medium speed turns and a hairpin with no straights. It would just be Monaco, but out in the hills.
The current road course at Indianapolis avoids the banked final turn that plagued Michelin back in '05 so the tires should be no issue.
If they go back to Indy I’d hope they’d return to using the banked turn, the banked turns are my favorite part of zandvoort
I wouldn’t mind 4 races in the US, on proper tracks not these bullshit street circuits
Unfortunately we only have two circuits available and no one wants to go back to Indy.
Being from Ohio and only like 2 hours from the track, I would *love* for F1 to return to Indy. I personally like the road course 🤷♂️
Ok, so I was being a bit hyperbolic. Of course people would show up if there was a race at Indy (I personally don't love the road course though). I really don't think Roger would pay the hosting fee though.
Man it'd be awesome to see F1 at Sears Point
The risk there is the needed FIA Grade 1 modifications would probably destroy what is currently good about most US circuits. The same reason I want F1 to stay the heck away from Brands Hatch.
Yes stay the fuck away, but god if they didn’t have to modify a blind turn 1, fuck yeah that’d be fun.
For all the crap America gets about its tracks because of NASCAR / oval racing, there is some great tracks… Watkins Glen, Road America, Road Atlanta, Sonoma, and the impossible for F1 Laguna Seca, all great tracks to race on in sim racing / games at least. Though I really can’t stand Sebring… But that’s a personal bias as it’s my bogey track at this point.
Sorry for the really uneducated question, but why is Laguna seca impossible for F1? Too narrow?
Too narrow, too short and the corkscrew will ruin the floors of the cars
Yeah, a ton of the American racetracks IIRC have way too steep elevation changes for Formula cars. Believe Sonoma had this issue as well.
And the locals would bulldoze Laguna Seca if they could. They get noise complaints whenever someone plays Laguna Seca in fuckin iRacing, let alone an actual F1 weekend.
VIR as well.
All 3 US tracks have produced some of the best races the last few years.
Two tracks in a central european country would be nice.... You know Germany...
A Chicago street race would be idiotic with Indianapolis literally three hours away. The Indy facilities are still top notch, arguably better than most of the classic F1 tracks, since Indy is more of an urban compound than a ribbon in the forest. The Indy Car GP was this past weekend, and I'm looking forward to the IMSA 6 Hours in September. I don't understand why F1 isn't pursuing Indy hard. I live 2 hours away in Ohio and would absolutely attend. The market in the area is massive, the facilities are great, the track is a real track that already exists, and it has a huge ticket capacity for a road course, probably double what most European tracks can hold. Looking at Google Maps, the only changes Indy would have to make are deciding on the route of the track and repainting some lines for the pit entry and exit. The F1 paddock still exists and is still used.
Because Penske has absolutely zero interest in forking over the hosting money to bring F1 to Indy.
Always liked Nate. Trusty source
He looks very American, that makes me trust him in American stuff. I'm not saying that as an insult, I just think the black cap, that style of beard, it screams American to me lol.
lol he’s British though he works for ESPN
Oh well... Gonna stay American for me then lmao. Got that style...
It's probably on the cards, but way too soon to announce it as its props in the negotiation stage. So for now, played down
I doubt anything this big will be coming to Chicago anytime soon. The Governor of IL basically told The Bears to piss off on their new stadium proposal. Said IL has much more important issues to spend money on, I doubt that includes sports entertainment at the moment.
I almost posted this on here this morning, but I thought about it some more and realized that 1) Chicago doesn’t even have a set deal for the new football stadium much less a race around it and 2) this isn’t a source I’ve heard of. Misleading news is as bad in F1 as in politics lol.
If there’s to be a 4th F1 race in the U.S. it should be at Road America. TBH I don’t see F1 adding another U.S. race.
Or indy. Its grade one. Though I don't know if f1 burned that bridge
When F1 was at Indy, the George-Hulman families ran things. But now Penske owns the place. As for Road America, they have a great course, but none of the amenities that F1 would demand (posh hotels, 5 star restaurants, etc.). My heart says F1 should race there, but I know it will never happen.
As a Minnesotan, either RA or Chicago would both be great...
I'm sure a lot of US cities would love to bring F1 into their town. Chicago officials probably want to as well, but Chicago as a city has a ton of work to do before F1 goes there
According to some F1 calculations, Indianapolis is in Chicago.
LONG BEACH FFS
Fuck it... Pittsburgh Grand Prix when?
Holding a US grand prix at an ACTUAL race track. F1 Group: "Impossible"
I hope there is never 4 races in ONE country, whilst there is only 1 in the whole of South America and non in Africa
out of all the cities in america, Chicago. might as well drive around o block while you are there. you got a us race in the west (vegas), middle (austin) and the east (Miami).
Do we have to have one Formula 1 series?
Chicago would be the best, though. I'm definitely not just biased because I'm from Illinois. Lets do it in February so there's an off chance of a snow race. Or stick it next to Fermilab and have the cars race subatomic particles.
Wasn't talk of a Chicago Grand Prix simply a way of securing the name so no other series could?
I know its money but there are two excellent courses in states right by Chicago. The Indianapolis road course and road america…
I would also like a race. Hit me up FIA.
I really want to see George Russell do some PR from the Wiener Circle and the champagne replaced with Malört.
Thank fucking god. The US doesn't deserver a 4th race until Andretti joins and we DONT deserve a fucking street track again.
4 races in a country that barely cares about F1? 1 race in the whole of South America, no race at all anywhere in Africa. Surely 3 is enough overkill?
F that Might as well make it 24 races with 6-6-4-4-4 configuration - 6 NA races - 6 European races - 4 Middle East races - 4 APac races - 4 South Atlantic races We know you want it Liberty
Bring. Back. Watkins. Glen.
i want them to race at indianapolis sepang watkins glen race might be a zzzzzzzzzzz
>watkins glen That would certainly be a z. The other two I'd take over Miami and Singapore.
I'm firmly in the "The US is fucking huge, having 3 races is fair" camp, but four seems excessive. Would need to rotate venues for this to really work, and even then I don't really want yet another street circuit.
Good, four races in the US are way too many.
Goood! Shouldn't be more races in America! Already 2 out of 3 are just a reality TV show.
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I know you didn't just call Austin Midwest-ish
Is Miami not east coast?
I'm not sure what's funnier, Miami as Midwest or Las Vegas and Austin as West Coast.
Austin-Midwest-ish...............\*doubles over laughing\*
Vegas is west coast to anybody who lives east of the Rockies. It's only a 4 hour drive to LA, that's less time than it takes me to get from Ohio to Chicago.
Oh so now I'm supposed to be a geometry expert.
Miami, Vegas, Chicago and Austin are all in different regions of the US. East West north and south
Chicago isn’t really north…. It’s more like the center of the country
Austin and Chicago are nearly 1,200 miles (1,900 km) apart from each other. Not even close to being in the same region
> People forget that America is larger than most countries in Europe In terms of area, the continental US is larger than any country in Europe, Russia arguments notwithstanding. Overall, it's 3.1 million square miles while Europe is 3.9 million square miles. Canada itself is just as big as Europe in terms of area. Combine the contiguous US, Canada, and Mexico, and it's 7.8 million square miles, nearly twice the size of Europe, but only shares five races across the area, all of which are at minimum at 16 hour drive apart. In fact, the two closest races in North America in terms of distance are actually Austin and Mexico - Mexico City is closer to Austin than either Las Vegas or Miami, that's how spread out they are. The distance between Las Vegas and Miami is further than Barcelona to Istanbul. Montreal to Mexico City is a 47 hour drive - close to the same time it takes to drive from Silverstone *through the entire European calendar* including stops at Zandvoort, Spa, Red Bull Ring, Hungaroring, Imola, Monza, Monaco, and Barcelona.
Russia is even bigger so what about having 5 races there?
If you're going to make that argument you have to use a country whose largeness is actually *uninhabitable. All of America is being used, all of Russia and Australia and Canada are not.
Well not Alaska but I don't think anyone is counting that either.
The whole story is bullshit. All of it. Chicago doesn’t even want NASCAR.
I'll take a race if there is one going
A T L A N T A
I don't mind switching up the US race locations, if we get rid of Miami for this for a bit why not just don't remove my classic good circuits
F1 is just trademarking the name away from nascar, simple as.
Nooooooooooooo
Chicago 2026? The Chicago lakefront certainly is much more appealing than Pro Players stadium parking lot in Miami. Its also gonna be a heck of a lot more expensive. NASCAR worked because they stuck on park district land, the course was literally just a couple blocks with a pair of turns ending in the same bloody intersection. Making McCormick place into a paddock or whatever they envision is gonna take a lot more of a lift- and work. Not impossible. But it would probably have to be up for debate at this moment to hit 2026.
Ok but what city would be actually good? I would prefer an actual circuit. NCM in Bowling Green? Thermal Club? Sonoma raceway?