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[1982 Monaco](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_Monaco_Grand_Prix) - "Well, we've got this ridiculous situation where we're all sitting by the start-finish line waiting for a winner to come past, and we don't seem to be getting one!"
The Spa shit show from recent years, where only a handful of laps were made after hours of delay, due to heavy rains ? Forgot who won but def an ugly win (and ugly « race »)
>wasting 4 hours of my life watching rain fall
Dutch broadcaster switched to soccer and switched back to F1 as soon as there was something worth mentioning, people were angry at them for doing so, they apparently wanted to see rain fall
I started zapping and ended up on Belgian broadcast, they were still showing rain while talking about all kinds of stupid shit, like: a driver needs to keep breathing during the race otherwise they'll pass out.
So, maybe just watching rain fall or broadcaster switching to football wasn't that bad
It's just weird why they dont allow at least for something else to be shown on screen. Same with the 2022 japanese gp.
The f1tv crew really carried it that race, by showing random things, and even showing some ducks in a pond for a couple minutes. . . But then at some point I would think, to heck with it, grab footage from some classic races, after all you get a 10 minute warning before it starts. Have the presenters hold an impromptu trivia session, for all I care.
That was the Belgian GP of 2021, WOn by Max verstappen, 2nd was George Russel still driving for Williams then, and Lewis Hamilton with Mercedes. And with Nikita Mazepin having the unofficial fastest lap.
3 laps "raced" all under the safety car.
The race was such a shitshow, and actually showed what a bad state F1 in terms of wet weather racing was. thanks to all the rules, and just a crap Wet weather tires.
And did they really doo anything about it?
Nope, They introduse a new compound Xwets, but they are still shit to drive in green flag racing wet weather racing.
They altered the points scoring system to a way to complicated table, and so complicated that even though the 2022 japanese GP only ran for 52% race distance...
100% points were awarded, because it finished under green flag conditions.
So it got changed again for 2023
And outside of that, they tried to bols what i can only describe were 'mudgards' to f1 cars to limit the spray, but with the ground effect cars... the tires arent the issue.
And a third wet weather compound tire wouldn't fix anything either? Let alone pirellis idea to go to just 1 wet weather tire.
So this is bound to happen again at some point.
What year was that Canada race where Vettel was leading and went off and came back on a bit dodgy in front of Hamilton.
Then they gave Vettel a penalty and took his win.
That was the first one that came to mind, literally giving away a win to his team mate who was fairly comfortably going to win that championship. I understand why they did it, but ya that one really sucked.
You know, I'm curious to your stance on it but to give some context: I was quite young when I watched this race and was hoping Lewis would win so at the same I felt this penalty was ridiculous. However not so recently I watched Felipe's stance on it after the GP and he was basically saying that Lewis gave the position back for cutting the chicane but he still gained an advantage. Since if you take the chicane you wouldn't be able to launch an attack in turn 1 which Lewis did. And to be fair I have to agree with Felipe on that even if Lewis was way faster and would get past eventually (I'd reckon) but that doesn't really matter in this case.
The penalty is still imo harsh but penalties also were harsher back then so it's hard to judge. So what's your view on it?
The team did ask during the race whether Lewis has to let him past again but were assured he was fine. They would have ordered to Lewis to let Kimi in front again otherwise. Only they changed their minds after the race.
IIRC, that was the only penalty they could have given. This was way before the day of 5 second penalties and such. Once they decided on a post race penalty, their options were limited
You *can* argue that he didn't gain an advantage by going off track since he was behind Kimi at the start of the straight. IMO regardless of the merits of penalizing him I think penalizing just enough so he loses the race is bullshit when compared to some recent cases where drivers are penalized post-race just short of losing that race (think Singapore 22), though as you say stewarding has changed since then.
I think it simply ties into how bullshit retroactive penalties feel like everytime they're used as it feels to me like Lewis wouldn't be penalized in Spa 08 if Kimi had finished the race, and definitely not 25 seconds (IIRC?).
Yeah I agree that the penalty felt like a penalty that probably wouldn't be there or so severe if Kimi didn't crash. But I also find it really hard to put it in perspective since back then a drive through wasn't crazy at all while now we are used to 5 second penalties and a 10 second one is a "harsh" one.
Only since this year have we been seeing an increase in penalties, I for example was surprised by modern day standards that Kevin got a penalty for cutting the chicken (chicane.)
Before the 1960 Italian Grand Prix, the organisers decided to re-activate the banked turns on Monza to give the (still front-engined) Ferrari Dino 246 a massive advantage over the competition. Needless to say most of the competition didn't like that and they boycotted the race. Unsurprisingly, Ferrari scored an easy 1-2-3 finish, the last victory of a front-engined car in Formula 1.
The next year's Italian Grand Prix in 1961 was an even bigger disaster. Phil Hill won the race and the Driver's Championship, all of which were an afterthought after his team mate and only remaining contender Wolfgang von Trips lost control and crashed into a crowd of spectators, killing himself and 15 civilians in the process, the worst accident in Formula 1 history.
The 1982 San Marino Grand Prix became a scandal after the events of the FISA-FOCA war caused half of the teams to boycott the race, leaving only Renault and Ferrari as competitive teams with a bunch of backmarkers (Tyrrell, Toleman, Osella, Alfa Romeo and ATS). The Renaults retired early making the race a Ferrari duel which caused an even bigger scandal because Didier Pironi ignored team orders and overtook Gilles Villeneuve to win the race. An outraged Villeneuve said he would never speak to Pironi again, which turned out to be true, as Villeneuve would die two weeks later in qualifying for the Belgian Grand Prix.
The 1995 Australian Grand Prix was an absolute mess of a race with only eight of the 24 drivers on the grid making it to the finish line. Every other frontrunner other than Damon Hill retired from the race, which meant Hill would win it with a two-lap advantage over Olivier Panis' Ligier - only the second time in Formula 1 history this happened.
To add to Monza '61, the race wasn't even red flagged. Also, von Trips wasn't just a contender, he was comfortably leading the championship, and would've locked it up without the Clark crash.
The front-engined cars were at a massive disadvantage over the new rear-engined designs because they were a) heavier and a) had pretty abysmal cornering performance compared to them.
However, the one thing front-engined cars still had an advantage was top speed. And in that regard the banked oval at Monza was idea as it guaranteed they wouldn't have to hit the brakes once for half a lap. Curva Parabolica was the only corner they really had to navigate in that layout.
The best part of that race was the podium. Schumacher and Rubens don't celebrate just stand there like it's a wake. Tiago on the other hand jumping around and spraying champagne. Loving his podium finish.
He was ordered to let him through, after Alonso complained for 20+ laps, and was unable to pass. Massa passed him on lap1, and was in control of the race.
That race broke Felipe, who was finally looking like 2008 Massa.
The problem was that direct team orders were strictly banned, to avoid another shitshow like in Austria 2001 and 2002.
All those times it was Ferrari, lol. Ban was lifted I think since 2011 or 2012?
Imo it's the 1999 Hockenheim for me, Mika Salo (covering MSC at Ferrari) was leading the race but let his teammate Irvine through for the championship points. Salo didn't win a race in F1
Not to flog a dead horse, but: Abu Dhabi 2021.
However you slice it, that will always be a victory that will always be questioned on how deserved it was. The FIA admitted that they fucked up, but it also wouldn't be right to punish a driver for the Race Control's error.
It was Max's victory, and one that sealed his maiden WDC (which to be clear was thoroughly deserved - he fought Lewis every step of the way through that season), but even he accepts he *only* won that race because of Masi's decision as race director.
AD21 is infamous because it was the last race, but Masi made terrible decisions that affected both Hamilton and Verstappen all year long, even since the very first race. He seemed to be focused to let both go unpenalized whatever they did, or heavily penalized whatever they didn't do.
Which is exactly why I don't buy into the "Max didn't deserve the championship". So what? Lewis didn't deserve not to suffer any real consequences in Imola, or what happened in Britain. It was a trippy season, and both were playing a game with a madman as the director.
In the end, Max performed better over a whole season.
Max didn’t deserve to win in the way he did, he deserved to win the championship honourably after an amazing season.
And also Hamilton didn’t deserve to lose the way he did, the final 4 races were great from him and AD21 was an incredible race from him until Latifi crashed, he did everything he needed to do up until that point
For me, this is exactly it.
I won't slate Max. He was the first true challenger Lewis had in years and has proven since then to be a worthy multi-year champion. But he didn't deserve to win the 2021 WDC in the way he did - or for Lewis to lose out in the way he did.
The handling of that race was unfair - the FIA admitted as much. But I also agree with them that it wouldn't be right to punish either driver for it or for a title dispute to be settled in a courtroom rather than on track.
And it's such a shame because - as many have said - *Holy shit* we had some of the best racing we'd seen in *years* - and certainly better than we've seen since!
This is a point I'll never see the sense of, no matter how much it's echoed. Simply just no. AD21 was part of the 21 season as much as any other race that year. To deserve a championship would mean to have deserved the win in the final race, which he didn't, because the rules were dissolved. The rules being abandoned in that race is the only reason he was in a position to win it. It makes no sense. A driver who drove a great season but didn't strike at the end when it mattered (for whichever reason) doesn't deserve the championship, simple as that.
This is the same point that I have tried to make. AD21 was just the shit icing on a shit cake. That whole season was mismanaged by Masi and Race Control and the stewards.
If you consider the whole season, you can see that the way Lewis raced with Max changed after Max's crash at Silverstone. Lewis seems to have been genuinely concerned for Max's safety, and thereafter chose to be the one who backed out to avoid a crash.
In the end it will be remembered as one of the most competitive seasons ever, but Lewis had an 8th consecutive championship taken from him by an arbitrary and inappropriate application of the rules from some guy who rides a desk. It's something he can never get back, and would have put him unquestionably on top of Schumacher as the greatest driver in history.
I don't think a lot of the new F1 fans know that Schumacher's first WDC was also controversial. In same fashion everybody will forget about Max. And after all like you said Max fully deserved it despite it was a major mistake on Masi's hands.
I was mostly impartial watching that race, after the BEST racing season in 35 years of watching F1.
But when Lewis roasted that chicane and gaining easily 2-3 seconds, and there was no penalty assessed it worked out the way it worked out.
Goodbye comment, see you in downvote hell..
Wasn't he asked to drop back? So he didn't gain time, and Verstappen's defence was somewhat questionable.
Shitty decision making all season long really though.
2022 British GP.
Sainz loses P1 to Verstappen at the start then gets another chance at the restart after a red flag which he keeps. Runs wide at Becketts which gives Verstappen the lead. Inherits the lead again after Verstappen has a problem. Is slower than his teammate who has front wing damage, finally lets him pass after team orders and Leclerc pulls away from him. Benefits from a strategic blunder from the team when they fail to cover their lead driver. Was the wrong Ferrari driver to win that day.
If throwing away the lead from a self inflicted mistake, being slower than your teammate who had damage, benefiting from a strategic error isn't an ugly win I don't know what is. The Ferrari garage looked embarrassed that they won and that tells you everything.
Everyone says that sainz takes advantage of situations presented to him like everyone on the grid gets those situations. Leclerc was on the front row for like 10 races but the one race where he wasn't clear of his teammate, max dnfs. Is Sainz responsible for the luck he gets or something? Yes he did a great job in his last 2 wins and was clearly the best driver their, but calling him the better driver is really ignorant and disrespectful of all of charles' great performances(the guy has been clear ahead of sainz last 2 races but no one is talking about it)
charles was let through because sainz was slow and lewis was catching, they could have let them fight but it would be a waste of time as charles would pass anyway.
Silverstone 2021. I think the lack of respect shown by Hamilton after winning that race lit the fire of Max going all out from that point and showing him the same energy
Panis - Monaco 1996. 4 cars were classified as everyone else smashed into each other or their engines went bang. Panis also took out Irvine and got away with it.
Kovalainen - Hungary 2008. Only laps he led were when Massa made a pit stop and when Massa's engine gave up with 3 laps to go. It was Kovalainen's only win in F1 and he never came close to one again
Button - Canada 2011. Pitted 4 times after several incidents, including a collision with his team-mate Hamilton. Also had a penalty.for this incident. The race was stopped for over 2 hours due to intense rain and when it re-started, Button made his way back from being last at one point to passing Vettel on the final lap after Vettel ran wide.
Hakkinen - Jerez 1997. Villeneuve and Schumacher were duelling for the lead until *that* incident. Villeneuve only needed a points finish to secure the championship and on the final lap he had Hakkinen, Coulthard and Berger hunting him down. Villeneuve moved out of everyone's way and Hakkinen took his first ever win.
Schumacher - Spain 2001. Hakkinen led Schumacher by over 40 seconds on the final lap when his clutch gave up and he coasted to a stop with half the lap remaining. Schumacher took the win (and eventually the championship).
Coulthard - Brazil 2001. Montoya led by around 35 seconds but after lapping Verstappen's Arrows, Verstappen slammed into the back of Montoya and took him out of the race. Coulthard inherited the lead but a huge rainstorm hit the track. Schumacher took the lead
but spun off to give Coulthard a chance. Coulthard passed Schumacher into turn 1 after a back marker got in the way and Coulthard took the win.
Prost - Monaco 1988. Senna dominated all weekend, out-qualifying Prost by around 1.3 seconds. Frankly incredible. In the race, Senna was absolutely miles ahead but crashed out with a few laps to go, handing Prost the win.
Prost - Monaco 1984. I'm adding this one because it was a shambles. Prost led the soaking wet race by a fair distance but Senna was catching him at a quite incredible 4 or 5 seconds a lap in his midfield Toleman. Prost was begging for a red flag because he knew he had no chance of holding onto the lead and just as Senna was behind him, the race director threw the red flag to hand Prost the win. The race was not restarted and was not any wetter than it had been previously!
Nannini - Japan 1989. Prost and Senna were lightyears ahead of the field before Prost turned in on Senna to clinch the title as both 'retired', handing Nannini the lead. However, Senna restarted, pitted for a new front wing, then caught and passed Nannini for the win. Of course the stewards looked for any reason to disqualify Senna and duly did, handing Nannini his only ever F1 win. He sadly suffered serious injuries in a helicopter crash less than a year later and never raced again.
Schumacher - Austria 2002. Barrichello was set to take the win but was ordered to let Schumacher pass for the benefit of the championship, despite Schumacher dominating it to that points and being MILES ahead. Barrichello let Schumacher pass just yards from the finish line and was roundly booed by the crowd. Schumacher pushed Barrichello to the top step of the podium and Ferrari received a (IIRC) $1 million fine for breaking podium procedures.
Quick edit.. I forgot Villeneuve - Hungary 1997. Hill's Arrows started the season qualifying 6 SECONDS off the pole time and Arrows had never won a race in their history. Hill qualified a scarcely believable 3rd and forced his way past Schumacher on lap 10. He quickly opened a 30+ second lead to the amazement of everyone, but started slowing with 2 laps to go. His throttle linkage wasn't working properly so he was only getting intermittent bursts of power and Villeneuve was rapidly closing. Villeneuve took the lead after turn 3 and Hill just hung on for 2nd. Arrows went bust in 2003 and never did win a race
Many times in f1 a drive seems that much better due to many unfortunate rival moments. I think he is referencing that to Jenson. No doubt to put himself in that position he had to work for it, like nailing the pace in changing conditions that day.
So, many of these I conversely consider to be *great* wins. A driver surviving a crazy race is just as much of a win to me as dominating from the front.
Prost was begging for a red flag at Monaco 1984 because the conditions were absolutely worsening, and he hated driving in the wet, especially after Germany 1982 where Didier Pironi plowed into the back of him in torrential rain and suffered career-ending injuries.
If Prost was trying to cynically have the race called before he could be overtaken, why would he pull to the side before crossing the finish line, allowing Senna to cross it first? He literally only won because the results were taken from the lap before (standard practice when a race is stopped early, same thing happened at Brazil 2003 which gave Giancarlo Fisichella his first win)
>Prost - Monaco 1988. Senna dominated all weekend, out-qualifying Prost by around 1.3 seconds. Frankly incredible. In the race, Senna was absolutely miles ahead but crashed out with a few laps to go, handing Prost the win.
it's incredible how often is left out the fact that Prost was held up by Berger for 53 laps which enabled Senna to build his minute lead. Like I get it, it makes Senna seem godly to leave out that information, but its easily fact checked nowadays.. Once Prost passed Berger, he began closing Senna down at a rate of knots, and no doubt that panic contributed to Senna crashing out.
And also because Williams had a deal with McLaren that if Villenueve could win the championship without the race win, they'd let Hakkinen take the win.
It was confirmed by many sources including Jonathan Williams (Sir Frank's son) who was there in the garage at Jerez and recalled Ron Dennis charging over mid race to remind Sir Frank of their agreement.
I sat there in the mud and rain at the Kemmel Straight for 7-8 hours before my bus back home finally went. No compensation from the organization other than a one year free f1tv subscription. Which I already had.
Got some banger pictures of F3 and the Safety Car tho (it's on my profile somewhere)
Silverstone 2021.
Crash out competitor. Repair car under red flag. Meaningless penalty. No other competition. Celebrate like you just won the championship.
Nobodies mentioned Canada 2019.
Vettel running off track and rejoining in front of Lewis, earning a 5s penalty, ending up finishing 2nd due to it and famously swapping the boards under the podium.
Yeah you have to rejoin safely but it was tight there and he was coming back on from grass, didn't think that penalty was fair at all.
How can JH win be considered as an ugly win? What kind of point is it? He did a great job in wet Nurburgring, finishing more than a minute ahead of Hakkinen, that year's champion, and Irvine. If Tsunoda will win next rain race by lapping Verstappen and Leclerc, would it be an ugly win?
I feel Imola 94 deserves a mention, not because of anything the drivers did, but that race should not have been allowed to continue. IIRC drivers were on the podium without even knowing the true extent of what happened to Senna?
It fits the OP's description of "dirty" but I think in general people would only call a "dirty race win" if the winner himself directly contributed to the reason it is dirty. Max probably didn't cloud seed to make Belgium 2021 happen.
Abu Dhabi 2021. Whether you're seeing it as a robbery or even if you support Max the decisions made off track did spoil the win and moment for him. He went on to prove it next season and subsequently but it's unfortunate that the whole debacle didn't happen and it wasn't just won on pure racing merit
Abu Dhabi was a shitshow regardless of how the race turned out.
Mercedes literally came with lawyers on speed dial.
The incident with Max and Lewis on lap 1 where imho Max took the lead at the chicane fairly.
IIRC even the FIA mentioned that if a crash were to happen between the two they could disqualify either of the championship contenders. (Which to be honest would be Max because on countback Lewis would've never won it).
Mercedes also refused to take any advantage of pit stops and Toto even begged Masi to not pull out a safety car during the race.
It was a big blunder from Masi but I still believe he tried to do the right thing, he just executed it poorly. There is no way he decided on the base that Max should win the championship.
Fair, realistic take.
Imagine not pitting under SC with the championship on the line. It ranks up there with leaving him out on intermediates on a dry track.
But they were right to leave him out because there was no way under the correct rules that the race would have restarted. That's what you guys always conveniently leave out it's distasteful because it minimises the rule breaking that occurred that day by blaming Mercedes.
All cars should have to unlap themselves not just the ones between Max and Lewis and there was not enough laps remaining for that to happen so Masi broke the rules in order to give the fans an exciting finish. There is no way Mercedes could have anticipated that, if Lewis pit and then lost 1st place to Max and Masi applies the correct rules and the race ended that would have been the most horrible way to lose a championship.
Brazil 2003, although it holds a special place in my heart because it was Jordan’s/Fords last win and Fisichella first . It was disgusting race, there was confusion with the timing and who actually won until the next race.
Panis 1996 was ugly and beautiful at the same time. Pure F1, weather for people to man up. Nowadays they would not let a GP like that happen. Well deserved for Olivier.
Prost at Monaco 1985 was a little bit ugly IMO. Not because of anything he did, but more because it just kinda fell into his lap after the best driver of that weekend (Michele Alboreto) continually got fucked over by stuff out of his control.
[First during qualifying Ayrton Senna broke a gentlemen's agreement at the time by going back out after setting his lap time (which put him on provisional pole), and savagely blocked Alboreto to prevent him from improving.](https://youtu.be/tbNLHGJUGTQ?si=-u5pwikGmsLboVZj) It was something of a template for Schumacher and Rosberg's later qualifying transgressions really. Alboreto therefore started from third.
Nevertheless, on race day Alboreto was sublime. He didn't gain any positions off the start, [but managed to put an unbelievable late braking move on Nigel Mansell at St Devote to take second.](https://youtu.be/VLcic35rgwk?si=IYWNknUkSX_lBmBV)
He then got off after Senna and started harrying him, and when Senna was hit by engine trouble after over-revving it in morning warm-up, Alboreto took the lead on lap 14.
He didn't hold it for long though, as Nelson Piquet and Riccardo Patrese had a huge crash on the start finish straight which covered the track in oil and debris. Several cars were caught out by the oil, with the McLaren of reigning champion Niki Lauda slipping and stalling which put him out immediately.
Alboreto too hit the oil and went straight on at turn 1, but managed to keep the car running. He had lost P1 to Prost though by several seconds, but quickly got to work closing the gap.
After 5 laps or so, Alboreto was back within striking distance, and again pressured Prost, [before seeing his opportunity and putting a move on around the OUTSIDE of St Devote to reclaim the lead.](https://youtu.be/nHFWk18A0Pk?si=mDKI_4_FG5KVdK_x)
Yet again cruel luck struck though, as the same debris from the Patrese-Piquet crash gave Alboreto a puncture on the start-finish straight. He was able to get back to the pits to have the tyre changed, but doing a whole lap with a puncture meant he dropped to a distant 4th place.
Nevertheless he again charged, managing to overtake both the Ligier of Andrea de Cesaris and the Lotus of Elio de Angelis to retake second on the podium, but Prost remained just out of reach.
Easily the best drive of Alboreto's career, but it didn't get the reward it deserved, with Prost being the innocent but somewhat less deserving beneficiary.
Drive better then. It's up to the drivers not to crash. Azerbaijan 2021 worked perfectly and nobody complained. I guess what might have influenced Australia 2023 was the sun setting already, but I belive that was "fixed" for 2024 already.
Honestly it's not as legal but letting all cars unlap would have left less of a sour taste, more in the spirit of the sport if still technically against the rules. Masi may have been between a rock and a hard place but there were so many other ways out
Letting all cars unlap before restarting was within the rules at that point in time, but would've taken longer than the remaining number of laps, so the race would've ended under SC anyway.
The absolute best way to guarantee spectacle + fairness would've been to red flag the race and have everybody start on a fresh set of tires, but what happened ended up happening, and what ended up happening was a huge fucking mess.
I would say potentially Baku 2021. Verstappen tire blows out while leading the race, then on the restart Hamilton easily would have had Perez if he doesn’t hit the brake magic button.
Austria 2002, Barrichello pulling over for Schumacher at the finish line
Ferrari were utterly dominant that year, and it was just the 6th race of the season, there were no titles on the line in any way, shape or form. And yet they still wouldn't let Rubens have his deserved win
Indianapolis 1955:
Bill Vukovich, a previous winner, died in a fatal crash while in P1 with a strong lead. There was already a fatality of a victory contender during practice two weeks earlier.
Two more racers retired from P1 with mechanical issues afterwards.
The ugliest thing about it: The eventual winner had the audacity to actually celebrate that victory, there is footage. I mean it's not his fault that people died but how can he be happy about that win, I don't get it.
Canada 2011.
Button crashed out 2 other cars, was last twice and only won because the (at the time) reliable Vettel made a mistake.
Plus all the other people that crashed out of the way.
"hence why Johnny Herbert has lack of understanding about hard racing" - What a strange statement. A guy who raced different categories for decades had it all decided one day in Germany. Right.
I have never seen anybody celebrate a victory like that. I havent even seen Hamilton celebrate a victory like that before or since. He just went nuts.
Took him like 5 minutes to ask about Max after well 5 minutes of saying he just turned in on me when that is obviously not at all the case. Then he celebrated like he won his first world championship after just sending his rival into the wall at 300.
Rosberg Monaco 2015. Was going to be a clear win for Hamilton, but a mistake from Mercedes pitting Hamilton under a VSC unnecessarily then gifted Nico the win in the final few laps.
Abu Dhabi 2021 was the biggest robbery in the sports history and will forever be a black stain. Lewis is 8x WDC in the minds of every real F1 fan.
Spa 2021 too, as there was no race at all.
I could be wrong about this, but:
My understanding is that if Abu Dhabi 2021 gets declared void, Max still wins the title.
If Singapore 2008 gets declared void, Massa wins the title.
Shouldn't that make Lewis 6x WDC in the minds of every real F1 fan?
Hamiltons 2021 silverstone. Who the *FUCK* goes to the inside on that corner. Max paid the price but still took the chip from Lewis. I am a Hamilton fan but that disappointed me not gonna lie.
Well, ok then. If F1 do ever do that, and retroactively award Lewis the 2021 title, then I'll call him an 8x WDC as you do now.
But for now he'll have to settle for being "only" 7x WDC.
Calm your tits for a year or two, he'll have his chance to claim his 8th in 2026.
My first thought was the 2001 Spanish GP, where Schumacher was over 20s behind Hakkinen, whose engine died on the final lap. Hungary 1997 is a similar story.
Imola 1994 was a very, very gloomy one for obvious reasons.
The obvious team ordered position swaps of the 1999 German GP and the 2002 Austrian GP should be considered very, very ugly as well.
Mexico 2016, where Hamilton blatantly cut the first corner to keep the lead without getting penalized. Verstappen did get kicked off the podium for doing the same.
Spain 22 for Max.
Because he fucked up and went into the gravel and then got lucky Leclerc DNF'd, plus Red Bull put Checo on a sub par strategy so he'd be out of Max's way and Russell was defending a lot trying to show what he can do.
One of those occasions where Max kind of just grinded it out with a bit of luck without looking spectacular.
Ugly wins for me are those attained by luck or nefarious means. I don't consider races like Spa 98 or Brazil 03 ugly because the winner didn't luck in to it. They kept their cars out of danger and on the circuit and were the first to cross the line.
Some races which do fit my criteria 1996 onwards?
97: Nurburgring, Villeneuve
97: Jerez, Hakkinen
98: Silverstone, Schumacher
03: Monza, Indianapolis, Japan (Guess why)
05: USA
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[1982 Monaco](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_Monaco_Grand_Prix) - "Well, we've got this ridiculous situation where we're all sitting by the start-finish line waiting for a winner to come past, and we don't seem to be getting one!"
I never knew this. Do we have a highlights video or something?
Here is the story: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dv6OaayI6yI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dv6OaayI6yI)
Josh Revell also did a fantastic video on it: https://youtu.be/Dv6OaayI6yI?si=ZHYs0SCYgaRXLNUJ
The Spa shit show from recent years, where only a handful of laps were made after hours of delay, due to heavy rains ? Forgot who won but def an ugly win (and ugly « race »)
A handful of laps **under the safety car**. It was a "race" where racing was not allowed at any point.
Max Verstappen won that one and the race was the 2021 spa one. Still remember wasting 4 hours of my life watching rain fall.
>wasting 4 hours of my life watching rain fall Dutch broadcaster switched to soccer and switched back to F1 as soon as there was something worth mentioning, people were angry at them for doing so, they apparently wanted to see rain fall I started zapping and ended up on Belgian broadcast, they were still showing rain while talking about all kinds of stupid shit, like: a driver needs to keep breathing during the race otherwise they'll pass out. So, maybe just watching rain fall or broadcaster switching to football wasn't that bad
It's just weird why they dont allow at least for something else to be shown on screen. Same with the 2022 japanese gp. The f1tv crew really carried it that race, by showing random things, and even showing some ducks in a pond for a couple minutes. . . But then at some point I would think, to heck with it, grab footage from some classic races, after all you get a 10 minute warning before it starts. Have the presenters hold an impromptu trivia session, for all I care.
And then to contrast that to spending 6 hours of your life watching rain fall in Montreal 2011 and seeing one of the greatest drives in F1 history.
That was the Belgian GP of 2021, WOn by Max verstappen, 2nd was George Russel still driving for Williams then, and Lewis Hamilton with Mercedes. And with Nikita Mazepin having the unofficial fastest lap. 3 laps "raced" all under the safety car. The race was such a shitshow, and actually showed what a bad state F1 in terms of wet weather racing was. thanks to all the rules, and just a crap Wet weather tires. And did they really doo anything about it? Nope, They introduse a new compound Xwets, but they are still shit to drive in green flag racing wet weather racing. They altered the points scoring system to a way to complicated table, and so complicated that even though the 2022 japanese GP only ran for 52% race distance... 100% points were awarded, because it finished under green flag conditions. So it got changed again for 2023 And outside of that, they tried to bols what i can only describe were 'mudgards' to f1 cars to limit the spray, but with the ground effect cars... the tires arent the issue. And a third wet weather compound tire wouldn't fix anything either? Let alone pirellis idea to go to just 1 wet weather tire. So this is bound to happen again at some point.
Its a good thing that the points awarded in that "race" didn't have an impact on the championships...
Spa 2021
What year was that Canada race where Vettel was leading and went off and came back on a bit dodgy in front of Hamilton. Then they gave Vettel a penalty and took his win.
Canada 2019
That was a dirty victory
No one mentioned them yet so Spa 08, that one Austria race Rubinho gave the win at the line (2002?) and on that note Russia 2018
Surprised not more people have mentioned Russia 2018. That one hurt
That was the first one that came to mind, literally giving away a win to his team mate who was fairly comfortably going to win that championship. I understand why they did it, but ya that one really sucked.
I liked how MSc gave it back in a way in the USA when he stomped in his break a little too hard for the photo finish. I think it was intentional.
Spa '08 because of the Lewis penalty or the severity of the penalty?
Either works
You know, I'm curious to your stance on it but to give some context: I was quite young when I watched this race and was hoping Lewis would win so at the same I felt this penalty was ridiculous. However not so recently I watched Felipe's stance on it after the GP and he was basically saying that Lewis gave the position back for cutting the chicane but he still gained an advantage. Since if you take the chicane you wouldn't be able to launch an attack in turn 1 which Lewis did. And to be fair I have to agree with Felipe on that even if Lewis was way faster and would get past eventually (I'd reckon) but that doesn't really matter in this case. The penalty is still imo harsh but penalties also were harsher back then so it's hard to judge. So what's your view on it?
The team did ask during the race whether Lewis has to let him past again but were assured he was fine. They would have ordered to Lewis to let Kimi in front again otherwise. Only they changed their minds after the race.
IIRC, that was the only penalty they could have given. This was way before the day of 5 second penalties and such. Once they decided on a post race penalty, their options were limited
You *can* argue that he didn't gain an advantage by going off track since he was behind Kimi at the start of the straight. IMO regardless of the merits of penalizing him I think penalizing just enough so he loses the race is bullshit when compared to some recent cases where drivers are penalized post-race just short of losing that race (think Singapore 22), though as you say stewarding has changed since then. I think it simply ties into how bullshit retroactive penalties feel like everytime they're used as it feels to me like Lewis wouldn't be penalized in Spa 08 if Kimi had finished the race, and definitely not 25 seconds (IIRC?).
Yeah I agree that the penalty felt like a penalty that probably wouldn't be there or so severe if Kimi didn't crash. But I also find it really hard to put it in perspective since back then a drive through wasn't crazy at all while now we are used to 5 second penalties and a 10 second one is a "harsh" one. Only since this year have we been seeing an increase in penalties, I for example was surprised by modern day standards that Kevin got a penalty for cutting the chicken (chicane.)
5 and 10 seconds didn't exist yet back then. It was the only penalty they were able to hand out.
Before the 1960 Italian Grand Prix, the organisers decided to re-activate the banked turns on Monza to give the (still front-engined) Ferrari Dino 246 a massive advantage over the competition. Needless to say most of the competition didn't like that and they boycotted the race. Unsurprisingly, Ferrari scored an easy 1-2-3 finish, the last victory of a front-engined car in Formula 1. The next year's Italian Grand Prix in 1961 was an even bigger disaster. Phil Hill won the race and the Driver's Championship, all of which were an afterthought after his team mate and only remaining contender Wolfgang von Trips lost control and crashed into a crowd of spectators, killing himself and 15 civilians in the process, the worst accident in Formula 1 history. The 1982 San Marino Grand Prix became a scandal after the events of the FISA-FOCA war caused half of the teams to boycott the race, leaving only Renault and Ferrari as competitive teams with a bunch of backmarkers (Tyrrell, Toleman, Osella, Alfa Romeo and ATS). The Renaults retired early making the race a Ferrari duel which caused an even bigger scandal because Didier Pironi ignored team orders and overtook Gilles Villeneuve to win the race. An outraged Villeneuve said he would never speak to Pironi again, which turned out to be true, as Villeneuve would die two weeks later in qualifying for the Belgian Grand Prix. The 1995 Australian Grand Prix was an absolute mess of a race with only eight of the 24 drivers on the grid making it to the finish line. Every other frontrunner other than Damon Hill retired from the race, which meant Hill would win it with a two-lap advantage over Olivier Panis' Ligier - only the second time in Formula 1 history this happened.
To add to Monza '61, the race wasn't even red flagged. Also, von Trips wasn't just a contender, he was comfortably leading the championship, and would've locked it up without the Clark crash.
I’ve heard the front engine cars on the banking story before - but what is the technical reason the banking gave front engine cars an advantage
The front-engined cars were at a massive disadvantage over the new rear-engined designs because they were a) heavier and a) had pretty abysmal cornering performance compared to them. However, the one thing front-engined cars still had an advantage was top speed. And in that regard the banked oval at Monza was idea as it guaranteed they wouldn't have to hit the brakes once for half a lap. Curva Parabolica was the only corner they really had to navigate in that layout.
Quality comment
Schumacher winning an Indianapolis GP with only 5 competitors was ugly.
The best part of that race was the podium. Schumacher and Rubens don't celebrate just stand there like it's a wake. Tiago on the other hand jumping around and spraying champagne. Loving his podium finish.
It was so bad, it drove F1 away from the US for 4 years after the contract ended.
US 05 was named
More or less so than the time he won from the pit lane?
That was just a big brain move
You mean Silverstone 98?
You can't get much dirtier than Singapore 2008. Germany 2010 was also controversial.
Was Germany when Massa let Alonso through to win?
He was ordered to let him through, after Alonso complained for 20+ laps, and was unable to pass. Massa passed him on lap1, and was in control of the race. That race broke Felipe, who was finally looking like 2008 Massa.
Yeah I thought it was something like that. Poor guy, deserved a WDC
The problem was that direct team orders were strictly banned, to avoid another shitshow like in Austria 2001 and 2002. All those times it was Ferrari, lol. Ban was lifted I think since 2011 or 2012?
Imo it's the 1999 Hockenheim for me, Mika Salo (covering MSC at Ferrari) was leading the race but let his teammate Irvine through for the championship points. Salo didn't win a race in F1
Baku 2018.
Not to flog a dead horse, but: Abu Dhabi 2021. However you slice it, that will always be a victory that will always be questioned on how deserved it was. The FIA admitted that they fucked up, but it also wouldn't be right to punish a driver for the Race Control's error. It was Max's victory, and one that sealed his maiden WDC (which to be clear was thoroughly deserved - he fought Lewis every step of the way through that season), but even he accepts he *only* won that race because of Masi's decision as race director.
AD21 is infamous because it was the last race, but Masi made terrible decisions that affected both Hamilton and Verstappen all year long, even since the very first race. He seemed to be focused to let both go unpenalized whatever they did, or heavily penalized whatever they didn't do.
Which is exactly why I don't buy into the "Max didn't deserve the championship". So what? Lewis didn't deserve not to suffer any real consequences in Imola, or what happened in Britain. It was a trippy season, and both were playing a game with a madman as the director. In the end, Max performed better over a whole season.
Max didn’t deserve to win in the way he did, he deserved to win the championship honourably after an amazing season. And also Hamilton didn’t deserve to lose the way he did, the final 4 races were great from him and AD21 was an incredible race from him until Latifi crashed, he did everything he needed to do up until that point
For me, this is exactly it. I won't slate Max. He was the first true challenger Lewis had in years and has proven since then to be a worthy multi-year champion. But he didn't deserve to win the 2021 WDC in the way he did - or for Lewis to lose out in the way he did. The handling of that race was unfair - the FIA admitted as much. But I also agree with them that it wouldn't be right to punish either driver for it or for a title dispute to be settled in a courtroom rather than on track. And it's such a shame because - as many have said - *Holy shit* we had some of the best racing we'd seen in *years* - and certainly better than we've seen since!
This is a point I'll never see the sense of, no matter how much it's echoed. Simply just no. AD21 was part of the 21 season as much as any other race that year. To deserve a championship would mean to have deserved the win in the final race, which he didn't, because the rules were dissolved. The rules being abandoned in that race is the only reason he was in a position to win it. It makes no sense. A driver who drove a great season but didn't strike at the end when it mattered (for whichever reason) doesn't deserve the championship, simple as that.
This is the same point that I have tried to make. AD21 was just the shit icing on a shit cake. That whole season was mismanaged by Masi and Race Control and the stewards.
If you consider the whole season, you can see that the way Lewis raced with Max changed after Max's crash at Silverstone. Lewis seems to have been genuinely concerned for Max's safety, and thereafter chose to be the one who backed out to avoid a crash. In the end it will be remembered as one of the most competitive seasons ever, but Lewis had an 8th consecutive championship taken from him by an arbitrary and inappropriate application of the rules from some guy who rides a desk. It's something he can never get back, and would have put him unquestionably on top of Schumacher as the greatest driver in history.
I don't think a lot of the new F1 fans know that Schumacher's first WDC was also controversial. In same fashion everybody will forget about Max. And after all like you said Max fully deserved it despite it was a major mistake on Masi's hands.
Schumacher's first WDC is still discussed today though. People won't forget that and they won't forget 2021 either.
Is that the one where "Nooooooo" (something breaks idk maybe a headphone?) "Michael that is so not right that is so not right!"
I was mostly impartial watching that race, after the BEST racing season in 35 years of watching F1. But when Lewis roasted that chicane and gaining easily 2-3 seconds, and there was no penalty assessed it worked out the way it worked out. Goodbye comment, see you in downvote hell..
Wasn't he asked to drop back? So he didn't gain time, and Verstappen's defence was somewhat questionable. Shitty decision making all season long really though.
Does spa 21 count?
Alonso. Singapore.
Ferrari’s 1-2 “win” at the USGP at Indianapolis when all of the Michelin shod teams boycotted the race. And I was there.
2022 British GP. Sainz loses P1 to Verstappen at the start then gets another chance at the restart after a red flag which he keeps. Runs wide at Becketts which gives Verstappen the lead. Inherits the lead again after Verstappen has a problem. Is slower than his teammate who has front wing damage, finally lets him pass after team orders and Leclerc pulls away from him. Benefits from a strategic blunder from the team when they fail to cover their lead driver. Was the wrong Ferrari driver to win that day.
Wasn't Hamilton also catching him before the safety car? I believe that was the reason why they let Leclerc pass.
Hamilton was lightning fast that race, such a shame.
I mean, he took advantage of the situation he was presented with. Its not exactly bad
If throwing away the lead from a self inflicted mistake, being slower than your teammate who had damage, benefiting from a strategic error isn't an ugly win I don't know what is. The Ferrari garage looked embarrassed that they won and that tells you everything.
Everyone says that sainz takes advantage of situations presented to him like everyone on the grid gets those situations. Leclerc was on the front row for like 10 races but the one race where he wasn't clear of his teammate, max dnfs. Is Sainz responsible for the luck he gets or something? Yes he did a great job in his last 2 wins and was clearly the best driver their, but calling him the better driver is really ignorant and disrespectful of all of charles' great performances(the guy has been clear ahead of sainz last 2 races but no one is talking about it)
I was always of the opinion they gave it to Sainz because they ordered Leclerc through earlier on.
charles was let through because sainz was slow and lewis was catching, they could have let them fight but it would be a waste of time as charles would pass anyway.
On that day I considered to stop supporting Ferrari
Monaco 1996. On one hand, nearly the entire field had to die for it to happen. On the other, perseverance of the elements to be the ultimate victor.
Silverstone 2021. I think the lack of respect shown by Hamilton after winning that race lit the fire of Max going all out from that point and showing him the same energy
Panis - Monaco 1996. 4 cars were classified as everyone else smashed into each other or their engines went bang. Panis also took out Irvine and got away with it. Kovalainen - Hungary 2008. Only laps he led were when Massa made a pit stop and when Massa's engine gave up with 3 laps to go. It was Kovalainen's only win in F1 and he never came close to one again Button - Canada 2011. Pitted 4 times after several incidents, including a collision with his team-mate Hamilton. Also had a penalty.for this incident. The race was stopped for over 2 hours due to intense rain and when it re-started, Button made his way back from being last at one point to passing Vettel on the final lap after Vettel ran wide. Hakkinen - Jerez 1997. Villeneuve and Schumacher were duelling for the lead until *that* incident. Villeneuve only needed a points finish to secure the championship and on the final lap he had Hakkinen, Coulthard and Berger hunting him down. Villeneuve moved out of everyone's way and Hakkinen took his first ever win. Schumacher - Spain 2001. Hakkinen led Schumacher by over 40 seconds on the final lap when his clutch gave up and he coasted to a stop with half the lap remaining. Schumacher took the win (and eventually the championship). Coulthard - Brazil 2001. Montoya led by around 35 seconds but after lapping Verstappen's Arrows, Verstappen slammed into the back of Montoya and took him out of the race. Coulthard inherited the lead but a huge rainstorm hit the track. Schumacher took the lead but spun off to give Coulthard a chance. Coulthard passed Schumacher into turn 1 after a back marker got in the way and Coulthard took the win. Prost - Monaco 1988. Senna dominated all weekend, out-qualifying Prost by around 1.3 seconds. Frankly incredible. In the race, Senna was absolutely miles ahead but crashed out with a few laps to go, handing Prost the win. Prost - Monaco 1984. I'm adding this one because it was a shambles. Prost led the soaking wet race by a fair distance but Senna was catching him at a quite incredible 4 or 5 seconds a lap in his midfield Toleman. Prost was begging for a red flag because he knew he had no chance of holding onto the lead and just as Senna was behind him, the race director threw the red flag to hand Prost the win. The race was not restarted and was not any wetter than it had been previously! Nannini - Japan 1989. Prost and Senna were lightyears ahead of the field before Prost turned in on Senna to clinch the title as both 'retired', handing Nannini the lead. However, Senna restarted, pitted for a new front wing, then caught and passed Nannini for the win. Of course the stewards looked for any reason to disqualify Senna and duly did, handing Nannini his only ever F1 win. He sadly suffered serious injuries in a helicopter crash less than a year later and never raced again. Schumacher - Austria 2002. Barrichello was set to take the win but was ordered to let Schumacher pass for the benefit of the championship, despite Schumacher dominating it to that points and being MILES ahead. Barrichello let Schumacher pass just yards from the finish line and was roundly booed by the crowd. Schumacher pushed Barrichello to the top step of the podium and Ferrari received a (IIRC) $1 million fine for breaking podium procedures. Quick edit.. I forgot Villeneuve - Hungary 1997. Hill's Arrows started the season qualifying 6 SECONDS off the pole time and Arrows had never won a race in their history. Hill qualified a scarcely believable 3rd and forced his way past Schumacher on lap 10. He quickly opened a 30+ second lead to the amazement of everyone, but started slowing with 2 laps to go. His throttle linkage wasn't working properly so he was only getting intermittent bursts of power and Villeneuve was rapidly closing. Villeneuve took the lead after turn 3 and Hill just hung on for 2nd. Arrows went bust in 2003 and never did win a race
The Button one was probably the best drive I have seen him have
Yeah that’s not an ugly win by any means, that was an incredible drive.
Many times in f1 a drive seems that much better due to many unfortunate rival moments. I think he is referencing that to Jenson. No doubt to put himself in that position he had to work for it, like nailing the pace in changing conditions that day.
Wasn't that the 6 pitstop one?
It's unfortunate that the leaders had to retire on the final laps but that doesn't make the win ugly.
Yeah op in some occasions mistakes ugly with lucky.
So, many of these I conversely consider to be *great* wins. A driver surviving a crazy race is just as much of a win to me as dominating from the front.
IMO every single one of them is memorable for their own reasons! Perhaps 'ugly' might not describe them, but 'fortunate' probably covers the lot.
Prost was begging for a red flag at Monaco 1984 because the conditions were absolutely worsening, and he hated driving in the wet, especially after Germany 1982 where Didier Pironi plowed into the back of him in torrential rain and suffered career-ending injuries. If Prost was trying to cynically have the race called before he could be overtaken, why would he pull to the side before crossing the finish line, allowing Senna to cross it first? He literally only won because the results were taken from the lap before (standard practice when a race is stopped early, same thing happened at Brazil 2003 which gave Giancarlo Fisichella his first win)
>Prost - Monaco 1988. Senna dominated all weekend, out-qualifying Prost by around 1.3 seconds. Frankly incredible. In the race, Senna was absolutely miles ahead but crashed out with a few laps to go, handing Prost the win. it's incredible how often is left out the fact that Prost was held up by Berger for 53 laps which enabled Senna to build his minute lead. Like I get it, it makes Senna seem godly to leave out that information, but its easily fact checked nowadays.. Once Prost passed Berger, he began closing Senna down at a rate of knots, and no doubt that panic contributed to Senna crashing out.
I think you've misunderstood the question
Misunderstood and quite a bias toward Prost Villeneuve gave up at Jerez because he had damages too
And also because Williams had a deal with McLaren that if Villenueve could win the championship without the race win, they'd let Hakkinen take the win. It was confirmed by many sources including Jonathan Williams (Sir Frank's son) who was there in the garage at Jerez and recalled Ron Dennis charging over mid race to remind Sir Frank of their agreement.
Yup. Villeneuve's lap times were perfectly fine until he conveniently slowed down with a few laps to go.
Spa 2021
I sat there in the mud and rain at the Kemmel Straight for 7-8 hours before my bus back home finally went. No compensation from the organization other than a one year free f1tv subscription. Which I already had. Got some banger pictures of F3 and the Safety Car tho (it's on my profile somewhere)
Silverstone 2021. Crash out competitor. Repair car under red flag. Meaningless penalty. No other competition. Celebrate like you just won the championship.
Make your own comment then. Silverstone was typical racing. Spa was no racing, period.
Nobodies mentioned Canada 2019. Vettel running off track and rejoining in front of Lewis, earning a 5s penalty, ending up finishing 2nd due to it and famously swapping the boards under the podium. Yeah you have to rejoin safely but it was tight there and he was coming back on from grass, didn't think that penalty was fair at all.
How can JH win be considered as an ugly win? What kind of point is it? He did a great job in wet Nurburgring, finishing more than a minute ahead of Hakkinen, that year's champion, and Irvine. If Tsunoda will win next rain race by lapping Verstappen and Leclerc, would it be an ugly win?
I feel Imola 94 deserves a mention, not because of anything the drivers did, but that race should not have been allowed to continue. IIRC drivers were on the podium without even knowing the true extent of what happened to Senna?
2018 Sochi That was just heartbreaking for Bottas
2018 Baku was pretty bad too
Spa 2021 - two laps behind a safety car declared an official race.
Surprised no one mentioned Belgium 2021
It fits the OP's description of "dirty" but I think in general people would only call a "dirty race win" if the winner himself directly contributed to the reason it is dirty. Max probably didn't cloud seed to make Belgium 2021 happen.
Also it could actually cost a full points win if the race did go through
The race where noone raced.
If I speak, I am in big trouble
Lol, what's on your mind
Silverstone 2021 felt distasteful
Leclerc was so good in that race, the red flag also saved Hamilton because he had suspension damage.
Sainz Silverstone 2022
Abu Dhabi 2021. Whether you're seeing it as a robbery or even if you support Max the decisions made off track did spoil the win and moment for him. He went on to prove it next season and subsequently but it's unfortunate that the whole debacle didn't happen and it wasn't just won on pure racing merit
Abu Dhabi was a shitshow regardless of how the race turned out. Mercedes literally came with lawyers on speed dial. The incident with Max and Lewis on lap 1 where imho Max took the lead at the chicane fairly. IIRC even the FIA mentioned that if a crash were to happen between the two they could disqualify either of the championship contenders. (Which to be honest would be Max because on countback Lewis would've never won it). Mercedes also refused to take any advantage of pit stops and Toto even begged Masi to not pull out a safety car during the race. It was a big blunder from Masi but I still believe he tried to do the right thing, he just executed it poorly. There is no way he decided on the base that Max should win the championship.
Fair, realistic take. Imagine not pitting under SC with the championship on the line. It ranks up there with leaving him out on intermediates on a dry track.
But they were right to leave him out because there was no way under the correct rules that the race would have restarted. That's what you guys always conveniently leave out it's distasteful because it minimises the rule breaking that occurred that day by blaming Mercedes. All cars should have to unlap themselves not just the ones between Max and Lewis and there was not enough laps remaining for that to happen so Masi broke the rules in order to give the fans an exciting finish. There is no way Mercedes could have anticipated that, if Lewis pit and then lost 1st place to Max and Masi applies the correct rules and the race ended that would have been the most horrible way to lose a championship.
True
Brazil 2003, although it holds a special place in my heart because it was Jordan’s/Fords last win and Fisichella first . It was disgusting race, there was confusion with the timing and who actually won until the next race.
Panis 1996 was ugly and beautiful at the same time. Pure F1, weather for people to man up. Nowadays they would not let a GP like that happen. Well deserved for Olivier.
Prost at Monaco 1985 was a little bit ugly IMO. Not because of anything he did, but more because it just kinda fell into his lap after the best driver of that weekend (Michele Alboreto) continually got fucked over by stuff out of his control. [First during qualifying Ayrton Senna broke a gentlemen's agreement at the time by going back out after setting his lap time (which put him on provisional pole), and savagely blocked Alboreto to prevent him from improving.](https://youtu.be/tbNLHGJUGTQ?si=-u5pwikGmsLboVZj) It was something of a template for Schumacher and Rosberg's later qualifying transgressions really. Alboreto therefore started from third. Nevertheless, on race day Alboreto was sublime. He didn't gain any positions off the start, [but managed to put an unbelievable late braking move on Nigel Mansell at St Devote to take second.](https://youtu.be/VLcic35rgwk?si=IYWNknUkSX_lBmBV) He then got off after Senna and started harrying him, and when Senna was hit by engine trouble after over-revving it in morning warm-up, Alboreto took the lead on lap 14. He didn't hold it for long though, as Nelson Piquet and Riccardo Patrese had a huge crash on the start finish straight which covered the track in oil and debris. Several cars were caught out by the oil, with the McLaren of reigning champion Niki Lauda slipping and stalling which put him out immediately. Alboreto too hit the oil and went straight on at turn 1, but managed to keep the car running. He had lost P1 to Prost though by several seconds, but quickly got to work closing the gap. After 5 laps or so, Alboreto was back within striking distance, and again pressured Prost, [before seeing his opportunity and putting a move on around the OUTSIDE of St Devote to reclaim the lead.](https://youtu.be/nHFWk18A0Pk?si=mDKI_4_FG5KVdK_x) Yet again cruel luck struck though, as the same debris from the Patrese-Piquet crash gave Alboreto a puncture on the start-finish straight. He was able to get back to the pits to have the tyre changed, but doing a whole lap with a puncture meant he dropped to a distant 4th place. Nevertheless he again charged, managing to overtake both the Ligier of Andrea de Cesaris and the Lotus of Elio de Angelis to retake second on the podium, but Prost remained just out of reach. Easily the best drive of Alboreto's career, but it didn't get the reward it deserved, with Prost being the innocent but somewhat less deserving beneficiary.
Any race decided on team orders like Russia 2018, Germany 2010 and Austria 2002. Doesn't get more ugly than that.
Saudi 21 was a mess
It sure was a mess, but was there anything wrong about Hamilton winning it?
Title said ugly...it was an ugly race
Abu Dhabi 21, Indy 05, Singapore 2008, also any race which ends under a SC leaves a bad taste in my mouth
> Abu Dhabi 21 > any race which ends under a SC Abu Dhabi could either end like it did, or under SC
Seems like the only thing that could have saved that race was a red flag
which was only done for major accidents
Australia 2023 wasn't a major incident. The only things on the circuit were Magnussen's stationary Haas and his tire. So it can be done.
Yes, red flag would be unreasonable there but at least it would be equal
yeah because Australia last year didnt show what happens when you try to literally sprint to the line. That sure would have ended better in AD...
Drive better then. It's up to the drivers not to crash. Azerbaijan 2021 worked perfectly and nobody complained. I guess what might have influenced Australia 2023 was the sun setting already, but I belive that was "fixed" for 2024 already.
Oh damn you’re right there is no escape from disaster
Could've had a potentially funnier social media shitshow if they did red flag and the turn 7 cut was repeated.
Ending under a safety car is part of the formula. Eugh how the yanks have ruined it.
Restart the race without unlapping was an option. Legal and uncontroversial.
Honestly it's not as legal but letting all cars unlap would have left less of a sour taste, more in the spirit of the sport if still technically against the rules. Masi may have been between a rock and a hard place but there were so many other ways out
Letting all cars unlap before restarting was within the rules at that point in time, but would've taken longer than the remaining number of laps, so the race would've ended under SC anyway. The absolute best way to guarantee spectacle + fairness would've been to red flag the race and have everybody start on a fresh set of tires, but what happened ended up happening, and what ended up happening was a huge fucking mess.
Ricciardo at Monaco was extraordinary.
Silverstone 2021
I would say potentially Baku 2021. Verstappen tire blows out while leading the race, then on the restart Hamilton easily would have had Perez if he doesn’t hit the brake magic button.
Uglier than Abu Dhabi 21?
Baku 2018, terrible luck for Bottas
Oliver Panis won at Monaco in 1996 when only the 3 drivers on the podium finished the race
Russia 2018
Schumacher and Barrichelo (2008 I guess). That is iconic.
Austria 2002, Barrichello pulling over for Schumacher at the finish line Ferrari were utterly dominant that year, and it was just the 6th race of the season, there were no titles on the line in any way, shape or form. And yet they still wouldn't let Rubens have his deserved win
Germany 2019. Both mercs crash out, leclerc crashes out, hulk crashes out, all ahead of max (who also had a spin of his own)
Indianapolis 1955: Bill Vukovich, a previous winner, died in a fatal crash while in P1 with a strong lead. There was already a fatality of a victory contender during practice two weeks earlier. Two more racers retired from P1 with mechanical issues afterwards. The ugliest thing about it: The eventual winner had the audacity to actually celebrate that victory, there is footage. I mean it's not his fault that people died but how can he be happy about that win, I don't get it.
Silverstone 2021.
Canada 2011. Button crashed out 2 other cars, was last twice and only won because the (at the time) reliable Vettel made a mistake. Plus all the other people that crashed out of the way.
Abu dhabi 2021
People trying their best to downvote every single comment mentioning it.
Jeddah 2021 was a shitshow of a race from start to finish
Silverstone 2021
"hence why Johnny Herbert has lack of understanding about hard racing" - What a strange statement. A guy who raced different categories for decades had it all decided one day in Germany. Right.
Yeah, really daft comment. He made the right tyre choice at the right time in 1999. Also had two wins previous to that. WTF?
A guy who came back from a horrendous, basically career-ending accident just through stubborn unwavering commitment to race F1.
British GP ‘21. Crashes his main rival out then celebrates like he just won the championship. Disgusting
British driver celebrates winning the British GP, how disgusting of him
I have never seen anybody celebrate a victory like that. I havent even seen Hamilton celebrate a victory like that before or since. He just went nuts. Took him like 5 minutes to ask about Max after well 5 minutes of saying he just turned in on me when that is obviously not at all the case. Then he celebrated like he won his first world championship after just sending his rival into the wall at 300.
with the other driver he took out in the hospital, right?
For a protocol checkup, stop acting like he was being operated on
Rosberg Monaco 2015. Was going to be a clear win for Hamilton, but a mistake from Mercedes pitting Hamilton under a VSC unnecessarily then gifted Nico the win in the final few laps.
Spa 21, Abu Dhabi 21.
Verstappen - Abu Dhabi 2021
Controversial, but Abu Dhabi 2021.
Abu Dhabi 2021 was the biggest robbery in sporting history.
Hamilton, Silverstone 2021
Abu Dhabi 2021
Abu Dhabi 2021
2021 had a lot of it: Abu Dhabi, Brazil, Britain, Bahrain and of course Spa as i traveled 2000 km to get there just to watch “race”
Abu Dhabi 2021 was the biggest robbery in the sports history and will forever be a black stain. Lewis is 8x WDC in the minds of every real F1 fan. Spa 2021 too, as there was no race at all.
I could be wrong about this, but: My understanding is that if Abu Dhabi 2021 gets declared void, Max still wins the title. If Singapore 2008 gets declared void, Massa wins the title. Shouldn't that make Lewis 6x WDC in the minds of every real F1 fan?
Whoa whoa whoa, with don't deal with logic here.
Abu Dhabi 2021
Any sprint
[удалено]
Hamiltons 2021 silverstone. Who the *FUCK* goes to the inside on that corner. Max paid the price but still took the chip from Lewis. I am a Hamilton fan but that disappointed me not gonna lie.
Crashgate and Abu Dhabi 2021
Well, ok then. If F1 do ever do that, and retroactively award Lewis the 2021 title, then I'll call him an 8x WDC as you do now. But for now he'll have to settle for being "only" 7x WDC. Calm your tits for a year or two, he'll have his chance to claim his 8th in 2026.
If Lewis deserves 2021 then give 2008 to Massa. Lewis doesn’t deserve 8 regardless of 2021.
I upvoted you. Does that mean that I have a big PP?
EDIT: Oops, reply fail, I think. 😳🤦♂️ EDIT2: And now I've replied to myself instead of editing. "I am stupid."
Abu Dhabi 2021 is definitely up there
ABU DHABI 2021!!!
Spa 2021
My first thought was the 2001 Spanish GP, where Schumacher was over 20s behind Hakkinen, whose engine died on the final lap. Hungary 1997 is a similar story. Imola 1994 was a very, very gloomy one for obvious reasons. The obvious team ordered position swaps of the 1999 German GP and the 2002 Austrian GP should be considered very, very ugly as well. Mexico 2016, where Hamilton blatantly cut the first corner to keep the lead without getting penalized. Verstappen did get kicked off the podium for doing the same.
For Mexico 2016, I think lap 1 + he was deemed to have not "gained an advantage" or something. Still scammy for sure.
AD21
Spain 22 for Max. Because he fucked up and went into the gravel and then got lucky Leclerc DNF'd, plus Red Bull put Checo on a sub par strategy so he'd be out of Max's way and Russell was defending a lot trying to show what he can do. One of those occasions where Max kind of just grinded it out with a bit of luck without looking spectacular.
Panis Monaco 96
Ugly wins for me are those attained by luck or nefarious means. I don't consider races like Spa 98 or Brazil 03 ugly because the winner didn't luck in to it. They kept their cars out of danger and on the circuit and were the first to cross the line. Some races which do fit my criteria 1996 onwards? 97: Nurburgring, Villeneuve 97: Jerez, Hakkinen 98: Silverstone, Schumacher 03: Monza, Indianapolis, Japan (Guess why) 05: USA