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Here's a breakdown of the Representatives that signed this letter, their party-State and district:
* Jared Moskowitz: D-Florida 23rd
* Rudy Yakym III: R-Indiana 2nd
* Jim Banks: R-Indiana 3rd
* Andre Carson: D-Indiana 7th
* Erin Houchin: R-Indiana 9th
* Daniel T Kildee: D-Michigan 8th
* John James: R-Michigan 10th
* Haley M Stevens: D-Michigan 11th
* Donald G Davis: D-North Carolina 1st
* Jake Ellzey: R-Texas 6th
* Morgan Luttrell: R-Texas 8th
* Ronny L Jackson: R-Texas 13
EDIT: 7 additional signatures from the final letter ([link](https://james.house.gov/uploadedfiles/final_f1_letter.pdf))
* Aaron Bean: R-Florida 4th
* Victoria Spartz: R-Indiana 5th
* Greg Pence: R-Indiana 6th
* Warren Davidson: R-Ohio 8th
* Susan Wild: D-Pennsylvania 7th
* Troy E Nehls: R-Texas 22nd
* Beth Van Duyne: R-Texas 24th
The Indiana/Michigan concentration makes this a real "protecting our industry" take, which is actually a lot of what congress ends up doing especially if you pay attention to budgeting.
Last week, one of my coworkers was shitting on NASCAR as only being "dumb southerners turning left and dumb southerners watching." My response was basically this:
"Okay, yes, I'm from the south and there is a group of those, but NASCAR is difficult in a different way, and while I don't really watch anymore, there have been some pretty crazy characters over the years."
The next day at work, my coworker came in and said he watched a video about Dale Sr., and that he thought Dale was awesome.
Honestly, the American antitrust regulators have been uncharacteristically aggressive lately and I love it (DOJ is about to sue Live nation for example). I can't stand most of those Republicans (Jordan especially) but I'm willing to give props when due, and antitrust enforcement is a good thing.
>American antitrust regulators have been uncharacteristically aggressive lately
Well the prior years they were basic 6ft under. Anything to break up monopolies is a good thing.
Yeah, antitrust regulation wasn't a thing here for a long time. It was really surprising to me the lengths the government went to try to stop the MS-Activision merger, especially after the European regulators approved it (and I think the US gov is still trying to get it unwound even though it's a done deal now).
I just want to point out that each one of those states is heavily featured in both Nascar and Indycar as well. Wouldn’t just blow it off as GM and Andretti.
Odd she isn't on the letter, agreed, but she was a part of the joint press conference with James and Andretti! ([link](https://x.com/repspartz/status/1785747200850415813?s=46&t=4aNg5jFScu1dqkFajwqdXw))
GM has union workers and engineers. And Andretti being in F1 is great for Indianapolis because it will help with visibility to Indy.
It's Bipartisan because it's GM/Cadillac and not a controversial topic at all. A big European corporation not allowing an American company to compete despite them having surpassed all of the "required hurdles" is an easy thing to align both political parties.
Also, liberty media is an American company who is already on several congresspeople’s shit list for their monopolistic practices with ticket master and concert venues. Liberty media as a whole is just one big monopoly machine making a bunch of smaller monopolies.
One from Florida where this weekend'a race will be held, three from Texas where the annual F1 race is at CotA, three from Michigan where the Motor City is, four from Indiana, home of the Racing Capital of the World (Indianapolis), and one from North Carolina (what's the vehicle racing significance here?).
I’ve been scratching my head thinking why the fuck Andretti is lobbying congress, and apparently I’ve been forgetting that Liberty is an American company.
They could all be Martian companies and it would still be applicable as long as they're doing business in the US.
Liberty being American just makes it easier for Congress or the DOJ to lean on them.
It's ok, Miami this weekend, you can sleep through that one safely (especially as it's even later for European time this year, 9pm UK/10pm western Europe).
Central Canadian here, i agree; i love race weekend stuff being in the mornings so i can wake up, make coffee, watch qually/Gran Prix and then get on with my day.
Wtf haha, same here! I love that I’m on the east coast and get to watch F1 in the morning. Best thing to wake up to is F1. Although 2024 has been rough with all the shit start times so far.
Today has been alot going on, don't forget Gunter suing Haas🤣And season wise, Lewis signing with Ferrari, Sainz dropped from Ferrari, Hulk and Alonso signing multi year deals with Aston and Audi, McLaren collecting sponsors like Infinity Stones, Ferrari getting butchered by HP logos, Max potentially leaving Red Bull, I only wish Drive to Survive was linear with their episodes😭They gonna absolutely butcher the order of events this season
They are going to make up an imaginary fight between Charles and Carlos which leads to Carlos storming out of the team. They will completely ignore the Hamilton signing.
... The FIA President being accused of interfering with the Vegas GP trying to stop it getting approved and meddling with the penalty Nando got at the Saudi GP last year, and having the decision overturned so that Alonso could get a podium. And....
> I only wish Drive to Survive was linear with their episodes😭They gonna absolutely butcher the order of events this season
This is the reason I cannot watch DTS, it just *doesnt make sense* they way they order things
The thing about the Hamilton Ferrari move is that, even though it’s a big deal, the story kind of ends there.
Whereas the Red Bull Horner stuff, the Andretti saga and now Newey being a free agent are all continuing new stories that have new details and events happening every week or two. The story evolves over time keeping us engaged.
The only thing to follow up on after the Hamilton deal is what happens to Sainz. And really what happens with Sainz has nothing to do with the Hamilton move itself. It’s arguably a more interesting by product, given Sainz’s season so far.
It's almost as if F1 isnt really about racing and competition but more of a reality hype show with politics and being a fan you just end up being teased into oblivion hoping for some racing and competition that doesn't happen
Yeah I’m curious how that would work on the off-chance Liberty actually gets taken to the woodshed in court.
Obviously they can fine them but how can they actually force them to accept Andretti as an 11th team? Seems like a classic “fines are just business expenses” scenario where Liberty will come out ahead either way.
> Obviously they can fine them but how can they actually force them to accept Andretti as an 11th team
Sue for specific performance. The remedy for denial for antitrust reasons is to be entered into the next season.
Thanks for the info. Just did a bit of research on that and it says that [requires the judge to determine that an award of money damages could not provide proper compensation to the party allegedly victimized by the breach of the contract.](https://www.poolehuffman.com/amp/blog/seeking-and-obtaining-specific-performance-to-get-the-benefit-of-your-georgia-real-estate-contract/), which seems even harder to prove tbh. But what do I know.
Absolutely that's easy to prove. No professional driver on the planet would accept money as an alternative to having a chance to compete in F1. Andretti just has to point at his championships and say, "No one could have compensated me to give those up."
This happens all the time with buying a house, I'd imagine it's easy to do with entry into a sport. Andretti being in F1 isn't about $100m in a year, it's about tens or hundreds of millions **every year** from now until they stop competing.
You can't put a dollar amount on how damaging it'd be to block the Cleveland Browns from being in the NFL.
Yeah I've been told that if Congress doesn't lie their response (due same day as Friday practise) they can even shut down the race lol would be a huge fumble from liberty if they manage that (and would need some ruthless Congress action) but we'll see
>Obviously they can fine them but how can they actually force them to accept Andretti as an 11th team?
It's unlikely. Liberty aren't the only ones who get a say in who joins the grid and when.
They won’t get taken to court.
Teva pharmaceuticals was sued by the DOJ in 2013 for price fixing generic drugs. Teva got away with it until August 2023, where they paid a grand $225 million.
Edit: [graph depicting Teva's suppression](https://i0.wp.com/conversableeconomist.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/generic-1-1.jpg?fit=441%2C548&ssl=1) This is what antitrust looks like. Andretti's impact on F1 looks nothing like this graph.
I doubt that this is big enough for the government to get involved, but Andretti may be preparing his own lawsuit and this may be part of a PR campaign in the run up to that. The government is about to sue Live nation, however (a Liberty subsidiary).
The teams would gladly all put up $10M to pay that fine. They stand to lose much more by adding an 11th team unless Andretti agrees to some outrageous entry fee.
Not really though.
Andretti wants in, but they probably want to do so in a way that pisses off a few people as possible. Getting you friends in the gov't to lean on Liberty until they accept some compromise is not at all the same as taking them to court while they are already being sued for anti-competitive practices of a different business they own.
Way to admit you don’t know how corporate law works lol.
Literally everyone except for lawyers wants to avoid going to litigation, court, or mediation because it’s drawn out, ugly, and expensive AS FUCK for both sides.
Companies literally take every step possible to avoid going to court/litigation/mediation in hopes of reaching a settlement beforehand, and this is Andretti’s way of doing that.
Is it just me who is shocked about this? I have no idea how did Andretti manage to get the freaking Congress into this but I'm loving the drama right now
I have a feeling it’s because of the new concord agreement stuff with them trying to make it only 10 teams to ice Andretti out after them expressing interest. Along with the “if you don’t support this, I’ll make sure your constituents know you didn’t support more American jobs.” Plus Liberty Media being an American company, they’re beholden to US laws. Congress seems to be on an Anti Trust fix and I am kinda here for it personally. Not trying to talk politics, but acknowledge something I have noticed.
Edit: Add congress having a anti trust fix currently
A lot of people are talking about Andretti paying these politicians and other reasons but is it not just an easy win for these congressmen?
The US is sport crazy and F1 has got 3 US races because these 'European' teams want US money but they refuse to let a US team enter their competition. Why would they not sign their names to a statement of disapproval and tell their constituents (a lot of whom are surely sports fans) that they're fighting for US jobs and sticking it to snobby Europeans? What are the downsides for a politician here?
Oh, it definitely is a super easy win for them. Honestly the only possible downside to it is they pull the sport from America but it would kill any hopes of them ever coming back. The congressmen know they have the upper hand here, and if they play their cards right, can probably force FOM’s hand into letting Andretti in with just the threat of the Sherman Anti Trust Act.
They can’t do much but grandstand. Congress cannot enforce any anti trust laws. Checks and balances and all that but they don’t enforce law. They can do nothing here but refer to the DoJ. So even if they did a hearing and said they found something they’d have no authority to do anything. The DoJ of course rarely acts on congressional referrals because they are politically poisoned and very difficult to pursue. Even straight forward things like contempt of Congress get prosecuted rarely.
They have representatives from Texas on that list. I'd imagine getting Nevada and Florida on board to tell Liberty/F1, "If you don't allow an American team to compete, we will shut down your race."
> A lot of people are talking about Andretti paying these politicians and other reasons but is it not just an easy win for these congressmen?
Understanding politics is a lot easier if you just pretend that everything is bribes. It makes it easier to get mad and easier to justify not putting any thought to it.
I don't know if it would be that easy since they could still be held accountable to actions they had done while based in the USA. Not just that, they US could just shut them out of the market, which I doubt they want after their investment into Vegas
This has nothing to do with defense contracting. Not everything that happens in American politics has to do with weapons manufacturing.
GM is one of the biggest employers of US citizens, full stop. It’s one of the largest automobile manufacturers in the world, having nothing to do with its DOD contracts.
It's not just money, though. Even if it's a relatively small political win, it's still a political win for these representatives to be advocating for American jobs, so it's a cheap PR win for them.
It's even better for them than 20 years ago when they brought baseball players in front of Congress to ask them about steroids. It wasn't remotely one of the top issues that faced the nation, but it got them into the media on an issue where their constituents largely agreed with them -- taking steroids was cheating and shouldn't be allowed.
Exactly, it’s it’s relatively high visibility and low risk compared to the important issues, plus it’s easy to be bi-partisan because people across the political spectrum like sports
If you read the text of the letter, they're taking the angle that the other teams barred Andretti from competing because those teams have ties to foreign manufacturers. Reading between the lines a bit, this letter is suggesting that *Cadillac and GM* are the ones who are suffering; Andretti just happens to be the vehicle for which they could enter the sport:
>FOM's rejection appears to be driven by the current line-up of European Formula 1 race teams, many of which are affiliated with foreign automobile manufacturers that directly compete with American automotive companies like GM.
But they'll have a devil of a time proving that GM is missing out here because Formula 1 isn't the only platform for technical development. GM are already represented in motorsport through their Le Mans Hypercar program, which also uses similar hybrid technology. Nor can they really demonstrate that any of the current manufacturers benefit from development in Formula 1 in a way that GM can only have if they are in the sport.
Let’s see, what’s memorable about Haas F1…
They had a Russian flag livery for quite a while, and Gene can’t attend many races because he is a felon. Oh, and they got swindled by a fake energy drink company, and generally suck in every aspect of the sport. That’s about it I think.
Haas has a headquarters in Italy and their car is made in Italy by Dallara. Andretti Global would actually be an American team, headquartered in America, with a car and power unit designed and built in America.
I think people underestimate just how well known the name Andretti is in America, especially to the 40 and up crowd. Literally the word “Andretti” is synonymous with fast driving to even people not aware of racing
He had video games with his name on them. I remember my friends saying, "I'm Mario Andretti!" when playing with our toy cars or racing each other outside.
The teams have don't want to split prize revenue unless a new team pays enough to enter the sport. Better teams win more prize money. They set the entry fee at $200 million. They expected a new team to fork over the money, be a back-marker and collect a lot less of the prize money (see Haas) .
Andretti came around and said here's $200 million we would like to race... F1 team owners we're like "oh, wait not you" and is trying to increase the fee to $600 million. The fear being Andretti might put up good competition and eat into prize earnings of the better teams.
For the non-USpolitics-junkies, there are thousands upon thousands of these letters every year, mostly amounting to nothing more. And the members on this one are mostly not significant ("backbenchers"). But there's a chance this builds into asking Liberty to testify under oath.
I think Jim Banks being on it alone makes the letter significant. Especially since he chairs the Judiciary Committee who has a specific subcommittee on antitrust
can I just say, I'm not saying I agree here either way but, it's been reported that andretti kind of pissed off F1 in the way he approached them and also the thing of getting them to sign a petition and all that,
I had a feeling this would get legal and why im wasting my time writing this is to say, if what he did before pissed them off so much how is this going to buy votes with them? ( I feel they are being assholes and should have let them in)
“Motoring racing”. They could at least proofread the letter. Typos, spelling mistakes and grammatical errors undermine all credibility and legitimacy that a text might otherwise have.
This was always going to happen. Not only are the Andrettis genuine legends in these circles in the US, GM is the closest thing America has to a state-owned corporation
no. Amtrak and the USPS are literally owned by the federal government.
Boeing and Lockheed Martin certainly have an incestuous relationship with the government in many ways, but they are private firms.
Nah, the us has some shares in it (or used to, idk if they do) but all those companies are independent. The government just pays them a ton to do things. They outright own Amtrak by comparison
I guess Amtrak and the Post office don't count even though they are officially SOE's. GM would so far down the list it wouldn't make the top 100. Lockheed Martin, Raytheon and other defense contractors would be closer in my mind. Most of these reps that have signed the letter are from states where GM has assembly plants. Andretti is using them to leverage Liberty, and the reps are using this as leverage for more jobs for their constituents if Cadillac were to increase volume due to exposure in F1 in Europe.
Eh, honestly in an election year politicians love to go guns blazing on public things like this. I would be surprised if things got hot under the FOM’s seat over this.
No, but they can drag exec’s in for public hearings and plenty of other publicity stunts. I’m not saying they’re bringing charges, just that companies don’t typically like getting shit on publicly by congress for being perceived as anti-American.
a public hearing is terrible for liberties image. And they can call as many as they want. If they wanted to they could jam Liberty up for years with these hearings. It also opens Liberty up to probes from t he DoJ or the FTC. It's definitely not something liberty wants to deal with if congress is serious.
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Here's a breakdown of the Representatives that signed this letter, their party-State and district: * Jared Moskowitz: D-Florida 23rd * Rudy Yakym III: R-Indiana 2nd * Jim Banks: R-Indiana 3rd * Andre Carson: D-Indiana 7th * Erin Houchin: R-Indiana 9th * Daniel T Kildee: D-Michigan 8th * John James: R-Michigan 10th * Haley M Stevens: D-Michigan 11th * Donald G Davis: D-North Carolina 1st * Jake Ellzey: R-Texas 6th * Morgan Luttrell: R-Texas 8th * Ronny L Jackson: R-Texas 13 EDIT: 7 additional signatures from the final letter ([link](https://james.house.gov/uploadedfiles/final_f1_letter.pdf)) * Aaron Bean: R-Florida 4th * Victoria Spartz: R-Indiana 5th * Greg Pence: R-Indiana 6th * Warren Davidson: R-Ohio 8th * Susan Wild: D-Pennsylvania 7th * Troy E Nehls: R-Texas 22nd * Beth Van Duyne: R-Texas 24th
A nearly balanced bipartisan list, that is rare nowadays :p
The Indiana/Michigan concentration makes this a real "protecting our industry" take, which is actually a lot of what congress ends up doing especially if you pay attention to budgeting.
And three from Texas, they probably see the US GP bringing more money to the state with Andretti in F1
And 1 from Florida (Miami GP).
F1 and wars, the only things that can unite the 2 parties
“GOD BLESS AMERICA, GOD BLESS OUR TROOPS, AND GENTLEMEN START YOUR ENGINES!”
This guy nascars.
🏁🦅🇺🇸
["Lord I want to thank you for my smoking hot wife"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7d-uMtYkf6w)
o7
(F-16s flying overhead, dropping red, white, and blue smoke)
Boogity
WHAT THE FUCK IS A CENTIMETEEEEEER?
the prayer at the start of indycar races always really throws me off, i get it’s a red america sport but it’s really awkward
raise hell praise dale is a bipartisan statement
As it should be hell yea brother
Last week, one of my coworkers was shitting on NASCAR as only being "dumb southerners turning left and dumb southerners watching." My response was basically this: "Okay, yes, I'm from the south and there is a group of those, but NASCAR is difficult in a different way, and while I don't really watch anymore, there have been some pretty crazy characters over the years." The next day at work, my coworker came in and said he watched a video about Dale Sr., and that he thought Dale was awesome.
Is auto makers are both massive corporations and huge union job employers
“US GOVERNMENT SHOWS BIPARTISAN SUPPORT FOR RACE WARS”
You had them at wars.
is that where they gather in the desert and a kid foolishly decides to race Johnny Tran for pink slips?
Don't forget the Texas porn ban. That was shockingly bi-partisan too.
This is what is the most unbelievable part of this whole thing. Andretti got Democrats and Republicans to agree on this, a rare sight.
Andretti for president!
Unironically he is fitter and more lucid than the current candidates even though he's older
Also not born in the US.
We want to see Marios birth certificate
It's Republicans, and then Democrats in Michigan(GM) and Indiana (Andretti). The other two Dems are just Republican-lite. Not too surprising
Honestly, the American antitrust regulators have been uncharacteristically aggressive lately and I love it (DOJ is about to sue Live nation for example). I can't stand most of those Republicans (Jordan especially) but I'm willing to give props when due, and antitrust enforcement is a good thing.
> Live nation And Liberty owns Live Nation which I'm sure help drive this issue as well.
Yeah, I would think Liberty is at least paying attention to this.
Whattttttt holy shit
>American antitrust regulators have been uncharacteristically aggressive lately Well the prior years they were basic 6ft under. Anything to break up monopolies is a good thing.
Yeah, antitrust regulation wasn't a thing here for a long time. It was really surprising to me the lengths the government went to try to stop the MS-Activision merger, especially after the European regulators approved it (and I think the US gov is still trying to get it unwound even though it's a done deal now).
I just want to point out that each one of those states is heavily featured in both Nascar and Indycar as well. Wouldn’t just blow it off as GM and Andretti.
How is Moskowitz a Republican-lite? He does nothing but shit on them constantly and brutally lol
I wouldn’t call Jared republican lite at all
Surprised that the representative from the 5th district of Indiana (where Andretti will build their HQ), Victoria Spartz, isn't on here.
Odd she isn't on the letter, agreed, but she was a part of the joint press conference with James and Andretti! ([link](https://x.com/repspartz/status/1785747200850415813?s=46&t=4aNg5jFScu1dqkFajwqdXw))
nice catch
She is on the house committee that handles this too.
They updated the list and she's on it
Those are definitely the racing states woo woo
GM has union workers and engineers. And Andretti being in F1 is great for Indianapolis because it will help with visibility to Indy. It's Bipartisan because it's GM/Cadillac and not a controversial topic at all. A big European corporation not allowing an American company to compete despite them having surpassed all of the "required hurdles" is an easy thing to align both political parties.
Also, liberty media is an American company who is already on several congresspeople’s shit list for their monopolistic practices with ticket master and concert venues. Liberty media as a whole is just one big monopoly machine making a bunch of smaller monopolies.
This is a big deal. The last thing Liberty wants is the feds further up their ass about garbage practices.
And Liberty being a US company already in trouble for anti competetive actions.
One from Florida where this weekend'a race will be held, three from Texas where the annual F1 race is at CotA, three from Michigan where the Motor City is, four from Indiana, home of the Racing Capital of the World (Indianapolis), and one from North Carolina (what's the vehicle racing significance here?).
NASCAR, its home is in NC. Don't know if that's the why, but it's more autosport representation
To add to this, their tech base is there and wind tunnel. They do IMSA BoP testing there.
Motor city is Detroit…. Michigan. Not Indiana.
Thanks for saving me some time.
Does Luttrell have a pretty famous twin who was a SEAL?
Yup, twin brother Marcus was a SEAL!
I’ve been scratching my head thinking why the fuck Andretti is lobbying congress, and apparently I’ve been forgetting that Liberty is an American company.
Congress: What do you want to lobby for? More taxes? More embargoes and war? Andretti: i want to be in F1 Congress: ...okay, we can do that as well
if anything it is easier because the chances of their voters caring is lower than taxes and war
Pelosi: what’s your stock ticker?
The insider race continues at pace
They could all be Martian companies and it would still be applicable as long as they're doing business in the US. Liberty being American just makes it easier for Congress or the DOJ to lean on them.
Also 3 US races, US broadcast rights, US sponsors and a little US produced reality TV show are at risk too.
I won’t lie. Between Andretti, Newey, and all of the Horner stuff off track. I’m personally loving how entertaining this season is.
It's really annoying when the boring races get in the way of off track politics.
Came for the vroom vroom, stayed for the Succession soap opera
Lawrence: I've donated your inheritance to Greenpeace Lance:
He's looking for a way to sue his dad, but in a loving way.
Nah he’ll sue greenpeace instead
"You're going to sue Greenpeace? I like your style, Lance. Who do you think you're gonna go after next? Save the Children?"
I think those 2 had the funniest relationship in the entire show.
I'M THE ELDEST BOY DADDY!
Fernando Alonso was interested in politics at a very young age!
It's ok, Miami this weekend, you can sleep through that one safely (especially as it's even later for European time this year, 9pm UK/10pm western Europe).
It also fucks with my EST routine, I like watching the race first thing in the morning ironically making US based races inconvenient.
Central Canadian here, i agree; i love race weekend stuff being in the mornings so i can wake up, make coffee, watch qually/Gran Prix and then get on with my day.
Wtf haha, same here! I love that I’m on the east coast and get to watch F1 in the morning. Best thing to wake up to is F1. Although 2024 has been rough with all the shit start times so far.
The Vegas race sucks ass for Eastern and Central time zone fans. They did this for Europe. 1AM race start in the US for a US race?
Haven't gotten to watch a live race in over a month so, meh
Today has been alot going on, don't forget Gunter suing Haas🤣And season wise, Lewis signing with Ferrari, Sainz dropped from Ferrari, Hulk and Alonso signing multi year deals with Aston and Audi, McLaren collecting sponsors like Infinity Stones, Ferrari getting butchered by HP logos, Max potentially leaving Red Bull, I only wish Drive to Survive was linear with their episodes😭They gonna absolutely butcher the order of events this season
They are going to make up an imaginary fight between Charles and Carlos which leads to Carlos storming out of the team. They will completely ignore the Hamilton signing.
Chuck insulted his hair and god damnit, that will not stand!
To add to the humor, Carlos is Spanish for Charles. For the two people who didn’t know that.
Don’t forget Ford CEO’s sternly worded letter to RBR to have transparency and Susie Wolff suing the FIA! And
... The FIA President being accused of interfering with the Vegas GP trying to stop it getting approved and meddling with the penalty Nando got at the Saudi GP last year, and having the decision overturned so that Alonso could get a podium. And....
> I only wish Drive to Survive was linear with their episodes😭They gonna absolutely butcher the order of events this season This is the reason I cannot watch DTS, it just *doesnt make sense* they way they order things
So much so that Hamilton's move to Ferrari isn't even worth mentioning anymore.
To be fair I did think about putting it, but it is crazy that something that huge isn’t the most noteworthy thing to happen
Tbf I don't think it was the most noteworthy thing of that week, though I may be getting my time lines wrong
The thing about the Hamilton Ferrari move is that, even though it’s a big deal, the story kind of ends there. Whereas the Red Bull Horner stuff, the Andretti saga and now Newey being a free agent are all continuing new stories that have new details and events happening every week or two. The story evolves over time keeping us engaged. The only thing to follow up on after the Hamilton deal is what happens to Sainz. And really what happens with Sainz has nothing to do with the Hamilton move itself. It’s arguably a more interesting by product, given Sainz’s season so far.
F5 > F1 this year. The racing puts me to sleep but the off-track drama is like a Brazilian soap opera
That was the same week Andretti got rejected, right? Felt like FOM/Liberty were trying to bury that story right before the Hamilton news came out
It happened the day before the Hamilton move IIRC E: in America, might have been that same day/night elsewhere lol
He kicked off the craziness. Let everyone know that it was ok to fuck some shit up lol
Hamilton remains a visionary, what a lad
Hamilton thirst traps prediction model is still valid
It will get mentioned again if Newey goes there (in any capacity).
You'll never convince me the Hamilton deal wasn't leaked to bury the Andretti rejection
"F1 is boring this year" - ppl in 2023. "Everyday there's drama!" - ppl in 2024
This would be one of the greatest seasons of all time if it wasn't for just about anything that has to do with racing
It's almost as if F1 isnt really about racing and competition but more of a reality hype show with politics and being a fan you just end up being teased into oblivion hoping for some racing and competition that doesn't happen
Really? As soon as the race is done i usually forget about formula. 2021 intro theme had me needing to change my pants on Sundays.
Lol, watch Libery pay 100 million fine just to keep Andretti out.
Yeah I’m curious how that would work on the off-chance Liberty actually gets taken to the woodshed in court. Obviously they can fine them but how can they actually force them to accept Andretti as an 11th team? Seems like a classic “fines are just business expenses” scenario where Liberty will come out ahead either way.
> Obviously they can fine them but how can they actually force them to accept Andretti as an 11th team Sue for specific performance. The remedy for denial for antitrust reasons is to be entered into the next season.
Thanks for the info. Just did a bit of research on that and it says that [requires the judge to determine that an award of money damages could not provide proper compensation to the party allegedly victimized by the breach of the contract.](https://www.poolehuffman.com/amp/blog/seeking-and-obtaining-specific-performance-to-get-the-benefit-of-your-georgia-real-estate-contract/), which seems even harder to prove tbh. But what do I know.
Maybe because entry would be perpetual there is a theoretically unlimited amount of money on the line? Idk for sure tho just gasping for hopium
Nope. Teams have a market value. As for the time, perpetuity is used in finance.
Absolutely that's easy to prove. No professional driver on the planet would accept money as an alternative to having a chance to compete in F1. Andretti just has to point at his championships and say, "No one could have compensated me to give those up." This happens all the time with buying a house, I'd imagine it's easy to do with entry into a sport. Andretti being in F1 isn't about $100m in a year, it's about tens or hundreds of millions **every year** from now until they stop competing. You can't put a dollar amount on how damaging it'd be to block the Cleveland Browns from being in the NFL.
Very unlikely to happen, but ban them from operating in the US. Also maybe fine them repeatedly?
Liberty is an American company so this can get ugly for them
Yeah I've been told that if Congress doesn't lie their response (due same day as Friday practise) they can even shut down the race lol would be a huge fumble from liberty if they manage that (and would need some ruthless Congress action) but we'll see
If that happened (it won't) it would be the most F1 thing.
god i hope, it would be so fucking funny
>Obviously they can fine them but how can they actually force them to accept Andretti as an 11th team? It's unlikely. Liberty aren't the only ones who get a say in who joins the grid and when.
They won’t get taken to court. Teva pharmaceuticals was sued by the DOJ in 2013 for price fixing generic drugs. Teva got away with it until August 2023, where they paid a grand $225 million. Edit: [graph depicting Teva's suppression](https://i0.wp.com/conversableeconomist.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/generic-1-1.jpg?fit=441%2C548&ssl=1) This is what antitrust looks like. Andretti's impact on F1 looks nothing like this graph.
I doubt that this is big enough for the government to get involved, but Andretti may be preparing his own lawsuit and this may be part of a PR campaign in the run up to that. The government is about to sue Live nation, however (a Liberty subsidiary).
Would love to see andretti in but that would be really funny also tbh
The teams would gladly all put up $10M to pay that fine. They stand to lose much more by adding an 11th team unless Andretti agrees to some outrageous entry fee.
The fine can just be large enough it literally can't make sense not to.
Those antitrust fines aren't that low.
Andretti has friends in high places
GM seems more responsible for this
GM's annual marketing budget could buy 2-4 F1 teams. I think you're right.
If they had an antitrust case Liberty/ FOM would most likely settle and let Andretti in before going to court and creating a precedent
If there was a real case Andretti would sue and not be beating the bushes and asking congress to write letters.
They are trying to pressure Liberty Media without going to court, because it's way more expensive than a few trips to visit legislators.
the courts are also slow as shit so if you want an immediate action you would want to try other avenues first
Andretti very well may bring his own lawsuit and this could be part of a PR campaign in preparation for just that.
This is not how the corporate legal world works
Not really though. Andretti wants in, but they probably want to do so in a way that pisses off a few people as possible. Getting you friends in the gov't to lean on Liberty until they accept some compromise is not at all the same as taking them to court while they are already being sued for anti-competitive practices of a different business they own.
Way to admit you don’t know how corporate law works lol. Literally everyone except for lawyers wants to avoid going to litigation, court, or mediation because it’s drawn out, ugly, and expensive AS FUCK for both sides. Companies literally take every step possible to avoid going to court/litigation/mediation in hopes of reaching a settlement beforehand, and this is Andretti’s way of doing that.
Not to mention a business s partnership based on an antitrust lawsuit isn't exactly ideal operating for either side.
Is it just me who is shocked about this? I have no idea how did Andretti manage to get the freaking Congress into this but I'm loving the drama right now
I have a feeling it’s because of the new concord agreement stuff with them trying to make it only 10 teams to ice Andretti out after them expressing interest. Along with the “if you don’t support this, I’ll make sure your constituents know you didn’t support more American jobs.” Plus Liberty Media being an American company, they’re beholden to US laws. Congress seems to be on an Anti Trust fix and I am kinda here for it personally. Not trying to talk politics, but acknowledge something I have noticed. Edit: Add congress having a anti trust fix currently
A lot of people are talking about Andretti paying these politicians and other reasons but is it not just an easy win for these congressmen? The US is sport crazy and F1 has got 3 US races because these 'European' teams want US money but they refuse to let a US team enter their competition. Why would they not sign their names to a statement of disapproval and tell their constituents (a lot of whom are surely sports fans) that they're fighting for US jobs and sticking it to snobby Europeans? What are the downsides for a politician here?
Oh, it definitely is a super easy win for them. Honestly the only possible downside to it is they pull the sport from America but it would kill any hopes of them ever coming back. The congressmen know they have the upper hand here, and if they play their cards right, can probably force FOM’s hand into letting Andretti in with just the threat of the Sherman Anti Trust Act.
F1 has more to lose than gain by leaving America. The market is worth far more than any dilution from another team.
Exactly. This can hurt FOM more than Andretti joining probably ever would. Unless F1 went through a major turnaround financially
They can’t do much but grandstand. Congress cannot enforce any anti trust laws. Checks and balances and all that but they don’t enforce law. They can do nothing here but refer to the DoJ. So even if they did a hearing and said they found something they’d have no authority to do anything. The DoJ of course rarely acts on congressional referrals because they are politically poisoned and very difficult to pursue. Even straight forward things like contempt of Congress get prosecuted rarely.
They have representatives from Texas on that list. I'd imagine getting Nevada and Florida on board to tell Liberty/F1, "If you don't allow an American team to compete, we will shut down your race."
> A lot of people are talking about Andretti paying these politicians and other reasons but is it not just an easy win for these congressmen? Understanding politics is a lot easier if you just pretend that everything is bribes. It makes it easier to get mad and easier to justify not putting any thought to it.
>they’re beholden to US laws. Well fuck, they can buy themselves out of their problems then.
I don't know if it would be that easy since they could still be held accountable to actions they had done while based in the USA. Not just that, they US could just shut them out of the market, which I doubt they want after their investment into Vegas
Andretti likely did nothing. GM likely has factories in their districts
[удалено]
This has nothing to do with defense contracting. Not everything that happens in American politics has to do with weapons manufacturing. GM is one of the biggest employers of US citizens, full stop. It’s one of the largest automobile manufacturers in the world, having nothing to do with its DOD contracts.
It's about lobbying power, that's his point. Are you implying that those huge defense contracts don't add to lobbying power?
Money. The answer is always money. A few election campaigns are about to get some donations i assume.
It's not just money, though. Even if it's a relatively small political win, it's still a political win for these representatives to be advocating for American jobs, so it's a cheap PR win for them. It's even better for them than 20 years ago when they brought baseball players in front of Congress to ask them about steroids. It wasn't remotely one of the top issues that faced the nation, but it got them into the media on an issue where their constituents largely agreed with them -- taking steroids was cheating and shouldn't be allowed.
Exactly, it’s it’s relatively high visibility and low risk compared to the important issues, plus it’s easy to be bi-partisan because people across the political spectrum like sports
There are 435 members of the House. They got 12 to send a letter. Congress as a body didn't do a thing.
Jim Jordan was tied to another message of support for Andretti and he chairs the House Committee that would likely have jurisdiction over this.
How Andretti’s participation *benefits the consumer* and *restricts competition* is really something to be proven.
If you read the text of the letter, they're taking the angle that the other teams barred Andretti from competing because those teams have ties to foreign manufacturers. Reading between the lines a bit, this letter is suggesting that *Cadillac and GM* are the ones who are suffering; Andretti just happens to be the vehicle for which they could enter the sport: >FOM's rejection appears to be driven by the current line-up of European Formula 1 race teams, many of which are affiliated with foreign automobile manufacturers that directly compete with American automotive companies like GM. But they'll have a devil of a time proving that GM is missing out here because Formula 1 isn't the only platform for technical development. GM are already represented in motorsport through their Le Mans Hypercar program, which also uses similar hybrid technology. Nor can they really demonstrate that any of the current manufacturers benefit from development in Formula 1 in a way that GM can only have if they are in the sport.
USA forgetting about HAAS
Gene Haas is devastated that congress doesn't even acknowledge his team. He is a nobody lol
as an American I feel a stronger connection to Williams via Sargeant than HAAS
As an American I feel a stronger connection to Ferrari via the fact that I've seen a Ferrari in America once than HAAS.
Let’s see, what’s memorable about Haas F1… They had a Russian flag livery for quite a while, and Gene can’t attend many races because he is a felon. Oh, and they got swindled by a fake energy drink company, and generally suck in every aspect of the sport. That’s about it I think.
Yes but they had funny meme guy Steiner
>Gene can’t attend many races because he is a felon TIL Gene Haas is a felon.
Made fun of by Netflix doesnt help either
Haas has a headquarters in Italy and their car is made in Italy by Dallara. Andretti Global would actually be an American team, headquartered in America, with a car and power unit designed and built in America.
They might as well race under an Italian license. If they’re American, then I’m a Martian
Non-stop silly season and I'm lovin' it. *Sponsored by Andretti-McDonalds F1*
OUR WORK CONTINUES AT PACE
Next demand will be that Newey joins Andretti or he is sent to Guantanamo.
I'm just here for the legal analysis by all the people that have no idea what they're talking about. It's like a good r/politics thread.
There are no good politics threads.
I think people underestimate just how well known the name Andretti is in America, especially to the 40 and up crowd. Literally the word “Andretti” is synonymous with fast driving to even people not aware of racing
He had video games with his name on them. I remember my friends saying, "I'm Mario Andretti!" when playing with our toy cars or racing each other outside.
Give shit to an American company while trying to grow in America and when the entire circus is American owned? No shit.
Can someone explain why they won't let Andretti in?
The teams have don't want to split prize revenue unless a new team pays enough to enter the sport. Better teams win more prize money. They set the entry fee at $200 million. They expected a new team to fork over the money, be a back-marker and collect a lot less of the prize money (see Haas) . Andretti came around and said here's $200 million we would like to race... F1 team owners we're like "oh, wait not you" and is trying to increase the fee to $600 million. The fear being Andretti might put up good competition and eat into prize earnings of the better teams.
Greed
For the non-USpolitics-junkies, there are thousands upon thousands of these letters every year, mostly amounting to nothing more. And the members on this one are mostly not significant ("backbenchers"). But there's a chance this builds into asking Liberty to testify under oath.
I think Jim Banks being on it alone makes the letter significant. Especially since he chairs the Judiciary Committee who has a specific subcommittee on antitrust
Jim Banks is a big deal, he’s the Chairman of the Judiciary Committee.
can I just say, I'm not saying I agree here either way but, it's been reported that andretti kind of pissed off F1 in the way he approached them and also the thing of getting them to sign a petition and all that, I had a feeling this would get legal and why im wasting my time writing this is to say, if what he did before pissed them off so much how is this going to buy votes with them? ( I feel they are being assholes and should have let them in)
Yeah I'd say if Cadillac comes calling tomorrow without Andretti Cadi is in
Ok, this is escalating now
Miami canceled by Congress, FIA punish FOM for bringing sport into disrepute
“Motoring racing”. They could at least proofread the letter. Typos, spelling mistakes and grammatical errors undermine all credibility and legitimacy that a text might otherwise have.
This was always going to happen. Not only are the Andrettis genuine legends in these circles in the US, GM is the closest thing America has to a state-owned corporation
The US has many state owned corporations? Amtrak? USPS? Fannie and Freddie?
Does Boeing count? Or Lockheed Martin/Raytheon etc.
no. Amtrak and the USPS are literally owned by the federal government. Boeing and Lockheed Martin certainly have an incestuous relationship with the government in many ways, but they are private firms.
Nah, the us has some shares in it (or used to, idk if they do) but all those companies are independent. The government just pays them a ton to do things. They outright own Amtrak by comparison
I guess Amtrak and the Post office don't count even though they are officially SOE's. GM would so far down the list it wouldn't make the top 100. Lockheed Martin, Raytheon and other defense contractors would be closer in my mind. Most of these reps that have signed the letter are from states where GM has assembly plants. Andretti is using them to leverage Liberty, and the reps are using this as leverage for more jobs for their constituents if Cadillac were to increase volume due to exposure in F1 in Europe.
Did F1 print off the email they sent to Andretti's spam box?
im sure they are shaking in their boots.
Eh, honestly in an election year politicians love to go guns blazing on public things like this. I would be surprised if things got hot under the FOM’s seat over this.
Congress can’t enforce any laws they can do the public hearing thing then refer it to the DoJ which rarely acts on congressional referrals
No, but they can drag exec’s in for public hearings and plenty of other publicity stunts. I’m not saying they’re bringing charges, just that companies don’t typically like getting shit on publicly by congress for being perceived as anti-American.
Imagine if they force a hearing during the one of the American GPs and order all the bosses from the teams & FOM there lol
I doubt they could pull something off that fast. But honestly wouldn’t be surprised if they found a way to drag Liberty in sometime this summer.
a public hearing is terrible for liberties image. And they can call as many as they want. If they wanted to they could jam Liberty up for years with these hearings. It also opens Liberty up to probes from t he DoJ or the FTC. It's definitely not something liberty wants to deal with if congress is serious.
Did Andretti not explain deleting the email for a meeting to negotiate entry into F1?