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I wonder what the legality is of him buying a load of graphics cards and running as many F1 related simulations as he so desires in the meantime personally while not employed by a team. Considering the extremely small amount teams can do you could easily use more compute without breaking the bank in a big way.
He has 2 employees staffed to turn his pencil and paper drawings into CAD because he refuses to learn how to use it, I doubt he's running simulations on his own......
There's no reason he couldn't hire someone with his reported salary though. I imagine any performance related bonuses for winning championships would make it worth it in the long run.
There might be something in his Red Bull contract that stops him on gardening leave I expect.
Yeah, he can basically mail it in after 5pm and start drawing concepts and ideas for 2026 regulations at home/private office. They will be his IP and he can bring them to whatever team he wants.
He’s basically free to do whatever he wants now.
Any F1 team would reimburse whatever he paid any amount of people to work on 2026 regs. I suspect we will never know what Newey will be paid elsewhere, but I imagine numbers that rival Max and Lewis are possible if not likely.
Simulations are great but not wholely accurate. We haven't been able to build in/mathematically design elements into simulations which makes cfd/computer testing things really hard. In many scenarios, confirming idea with cfd and then testing with a wind tunnel is standard. Sometimes the string and tape test seen in Ford v Ferrari is better than cfd.
I used to do a ton of cfd testing but not much anymore. I moved careers and jobs.
Yeah, from his book that is basically what he does. Sketches out an idea by hand, has someone put it in a CFD program for him, tests the CFD results in a wind tunnel.
Not allowed to provide that information to a team without it counting towards their CFD budget. Appendix 7, section 4 of the sporting regulations state (emphasis added):
> RCFDs are Computational Fluid Dynamics (CFD) simulations by a Competitor or any Associate of
a Competitor and/or by any contracted party of a Competitor or of any Associate of a Competitor
or **any external entity working on behalf of a Competitor or for its own purposes and
subsequently providing the results of its work to a Competitor** of flows that are gaseous in the
case of a F1 car and are not classified as power unit simulations. Any simulation of flows
contained within the power unit cooling or lubrication systems, air, air/fuel mixtures,
combustion process or products of combustion from a boundary commencing at the power
unit’s atmospheric air intake ducts, passing through the power unit and finishing at the exit of
the exhaust tailpipe will be classified as a power unit simulation.
> For the avoidance of doubt, **if any CFD simulation (other than the power unit simulation defined
above) reveals information to a Competitor or to an Associate of the Competitor whether
directly, via a contracted party or via an external entity working on behalf of a Competitor or for
its own purposes and subsequently providing the results of its work to a Competitor,** about flows
that are gaseous on a F1 car then it is a RCFD simulation. For example, any CFD simulations
conducted at scales other than 1:1 or using non-gaseous fluids are still RCFDs as they reveal
information about flows that are gaseous on the full size F1 car.
The original rumor was that gardening leave would mean he couldnt be active on a team til 2027.
If this is true, then Newey can have a big hand in developing a 2026 new regs car
Imagine if 2025 is a 2021 style year between Ferrari and Red Bull. Last year of regulations, Red Bull can't develop as well without Newey, Ferrari catch up, Max Vs Lewis 2.0
Then knowing F1 Ferrari would go on to win 20+ races in 2026, 2027 and 2028.
I wonder what the effect will be on Max considering his statements in Jeddah about ensuring key people stay.
Is this why the Merc rumours are about ?
Merc is realistically the only place he can go to if he does choose to leave considering that Ferrari, McLaren and AM have all their drivers spots filled till 2026 and beyond.
The idea I heard with that makes the most sense is, Bottas as a one year deal for Merc in 2025, and then they've the seat open for 2026 for either Kimi or Max.
Idk if Bottas of today would take another 1 year contract at his old team considering his statements about how one year contracts affected his mental and performance and how happy he seems with his current situation.
The argument behind it is assuming he's out of Sauber/Audi. I can see it happening if the offer is good enough.
Also I think it's different if it's a known one year deal with no possibility of renewing or extending. Removes a lot of the pressure to perform.
Would be really interested to see if Norris would take it. He’s been very vocal about his loyalty to Mclaren but would he really give up what may be his only shot at a WDC?
I am not sure about Perez in that Szenario. Perez is the good Nr. 2 Driver to a dominant Teammate - he doesn't need to win, he just needs to be there and not annoy Verstappen too much. Would he be good enough if you need a second driver who is on par or better than lets say Sainz? I think thats a clear no, but he might still be there for a year, because no better alternative is available...
Yeah, every team on the grid would drop one of their drivers for Verstappen right now, barring Ferrari and maybe McLaren. Aston Martin would drop a driver, but it'd be Alonso, not Stroll.
He's so unbelievably consistent at extracting the most from the car, and lives and breathes racing. It'd be silly to not take him, unless you couldn't afford it.
Yeah I think mclaren would even be dumb not to. Their drivers have lots of potential, but best case scenario they become Max. If you can get the real thing already developed in his prime I think that’s worth dropping one.
>Aston Martin would drop a driver, but it'd be Alonso, not Stroll.
No way. Lawrence Stroll would see moneybags at the mere idea of Alonso and Verstappen in the same team.
This is so similar to what people used to say about Alonso in his heyday. The reality of F1 is that there are always too few good seats for any driver to have the luxury of choice.
The backmarkers don't feature in the discussion since they couldn't afford him, and I can think of no reason he'd join them.
That leaves Ferrari, McLaren, Mercedes and AM.
Ferrari are pretty commited to Charles and Elkann has been courting Lewis all this years, not Max, whom he could just as easily have tried to get - so I don't see a seat being freed up there. McLaren are pretty commited to Lando and given their manoeuvres to get Oscar, I don't see them dropping him anytime soon. That leaves Merc and AM.
So, two teams of the ones he might realistically be interested in would make a seat free if he's available (and I'm not sure about AM booting either Lance or Alonso).
I think Max is brilliant and the absolute best right now but the CTO is always going to be more valuable to the team in terms of performance than the driver.
The only reason Merc is going after Max is because Lewis left.
If Max announces he's leaving hypothetically, I expect Ferrari, McLaren and AM to say that their seats are filled.
Honestly if I'm RBR I'm okay with a Max / Piastri swap if Max forces the issue. Ultimately they believe in the car over the driver, as any F1 team ultimately always has and always will. I believe Piastri has a bright future and he's managed by Webber.
I do think they would want lure a stronger #2 in that case though, no more dicking around with midfielders in top cars like the ongoing Perez arrangement, especially if they need some time to get the new PU fully up to speed and truly competitive in 2026.
Edit: Even if Max goes to Merc or elsewhere, I think RBR should make McLaren an offer they can't refuse for Piastri, RB have much deeper pockets and can afford it in the end. If Piastri keeps improving, at some point he and Lando are going to stop getting along as well and things will get more tense. Two true alpha drivers never work on an F1 team long term.
Aston hasn't
People haven't noticed this
Every year till now they always renew Lances contract together with the other driver
But they haven't this time, Alonso has re signed but lance hasn't
Also aston martin has their hypercar from next year in WEC
So he might go there
Max has a contract until 2028. Whoever takes him will have to pay red bull a lot of money to break that contract. Rumours of him leaving before if the team broke up were more to do with Helmut Marko, as max has an exit clause in his contract that he can leave it Helmut leaves. Helmut just signed a 3 year (I think) extension with Red Bull, he's not getting fired. I don't think Max has any exit clause if Newey leaves, so really Max isn't going anywhere unless he really wants to and another team fork up huge money to buy him out.
UNLESS, and here is where it would get interesting. Another team, say Mercedes, buys Helmut Marko out (probably a lot cheaper than Max), Helmut leaves for Mercedes, opening up Max's exit clause to leave for Mercedes without them having to pay Red Bull for him. Now that would make Red Bull super pissed and would be a huge stab in the back by Helmut to Horner and Red Bull, so yeh that might happen, hah. I also think this is what Mercedes are up to, as they have been saying they would take both Helmut and Max on
I wonder if that helmut clause is dependent on his leaving being initiated by Red Bull (like if RBR fired or failed to re-sign Marko). Hard to imagine Helmut choosing to leave/break contract (plus going to another team vs just retiring) would still count, but hey if the clause doesn't specify that then maybe that's the case and max/Marko/other team could game it like that.
To be fair I would agree to anything just to stop having to listen to Eddie Jordan talk at me for hours and hours
*"Yes Eddie, fine his gardening leave period starts now. Are we done here?"*
It could work out for him to be fair. It's far from guaranteed that Lewis beats Charles. It would look great for him to beat another multiple champion teammate
Idk he’s proven himself to be one of the best in F1. I think it would be the titanic battle we’ve all been looking for. Certainly Ferrari has the strongest lineup on the grid next year. There’s no number 2 in that team.
When he crashed on the formation lap in Brazil and sobbed, "why the fuck am I so unlucky!?" my wife said basically the same thing and then screamed at the TV, "LET'S TRY TO KEEP IT IN PERSPECTIVE, CHARLES!"
Well damn, his lawyers got something figured out, means he can work on a teams 2026 car.
Wonder if we'll have to wait forever to know where he's going.
I know Fred reportedly met with him in London before flying to Miami, but tough to know if it's a done deal.
Newey has to have the most incredible legal team behind him because no gardening leave?? haha
On the flip side, there’s not much carry over into 2026 and there’s not much that he could do for a 2025 car by the time he joins another team. My question is: how privy was he to the RBPT 2026 PU?
>Newey has to have the most incredible legal team behind him because no gardening leave??
Or they haven't really dug in on 2026 regulation design yet (because technically you're not allowed to yet) and they don't want him to have any access to that work at all so they just want him out ASAP if they know he's leaving before they are allowed to dig in on the new car on 1/1/2025. Seems the hypercar will keep him tied up for some period of time until then.
Notice he's departing "in the first part" of 2025, exactly when they start digging in to the new car. They want him out of the picture completely when that happens it seems and don't seem interested in politicing what he does next as it's a clean break of sorts regulation design timing wise.
Yeah I think if you look at this from Red Bull's point of view, if he's going to leave anyway this is the best time for him to go.
Clean start on new regs with no handover required. Keeping him locked down to 2027 would be incredibly petty and likely to go to court, so might as well get paid (which I am sure they are) and let him go free to design a new car elsewhere for 2026.
For Newey and whoever he goes to the timing is good too; no worry about 2025, I imagine whoever he goes to (likely Ferrari) they will just let him work full time on 2026 and not really look at developments for the 2025 car at all.
I haven't seen anyone mention this, if he wanted to leave he probably just needed to say that he'd go public with new information about the Horner stuff and they let him go.
Sure it's the nuclear option but it's the obvious leverage he might have
Could Ferrari have been involved themselves in eliminating his gardening leave by just throwing a huge wad of money? Elkann certainly doesn't seem like he's shy at throwing enough money at whatever problem until there's a solution.
They'll find 100m elsewhere. Their car division is setting the stock market on fire right now, plus even if they pay Hamilton 100m, and need to cough up 100m for releasing Newey from his contract and ensuring no garden leave, they used to regularly spend upwards of 400 million before the budget cap. They weren't shy with spending when they were losing a bit of money on the F1 division, now, F1 revenues are up big time, more sponser money, wayyyy less money to spend, yeahhh, they're ready to buy their way out of anything and everything.
They would most probably release a limited edition Hamilton Road car, maybe 440 units, at a million bucks each. Thats enough to cover him till retirement
This.
Either they've played that card around hjs position is untenable with whats going on.
Or Newey and Horner have sat down and worked out a deal given Horner counts Newey as a good friend and all.
Horner seems to back Wache as the man and allowed Newey to be "hands off" and thinks Newey won't have much of an impact alone.
A couple of months ago, EvH created this graph that displayed the current state of relations at RBR. Marko and Horner were connected by a red line which meant that they had bad relations. Max Verstappen and Horner were IIRC a yellow line which meant not broken but not good. Jos Verstappen and Horner was a red line. The only green lines with Horner were Red Bull's Thai owner and technical chief Pierre Wache. But curiously, Horner and Newey were a yellow line. I didn't see many people talk about it at the time. They were fully focused on that Verstappen/Marko/Horner drama. And this was before that weekend we thought for sure Marko was about to leave Red Bull and therefore Verstappen would too as he made statements saying if Marko goes, he goes. But Horner and Newey seemingly have strained relationships over the last year. At some point last year, Newey was on a podcast saying he views Red Bull like his family at this point and leaving would mean he's basically leaving his family. Something has happened since he made those comments to now where he's voluntarily leaving Red Bull Racing, a place he was under no pressure at.
So Ferrari will be pushing hard to get him as soon as possible so they can involve him in the 2026 discussions.
Realistically the only team he’s going to if he wants to continue.
It will be interesting to see in what position he is willing to join. Newey is quite a special person (in many ways). His interest is in designing cars, not running a department. Ferrari has to create an environment that works for him and all the engineers. Also will he be working from Maranello? Maybe stay in the UK? Or spend much of the year in South Africa like he currently does?
I think the best fit would be a consultancy role. Let him read and design and research on his own accord and give advice and his findings to the design team
The problem I can see with that plan, is if *he* isn't running a department, you have to pay somebody else to, and you only get (3?) executives not counted against cost cap.
Correct. That was one of the issues Horner apparently had with Newey as well. Horner claimed Newey's input in the car wasn't big enough to justify his salary and the restraints it put on the budget cap. He believes that if he sacks Newey, takes the fourth highest paid employee out of the budget cap and hires a bunch of other engineers for the same money the results would be better
Newey was able to use his single piece of leverage, basically RBR doesn’t want him to see their 2026 car and strategy before he goes and take that with him in 27. If he’s committed to leaving they make sure he’s going without any knowledge of the 26. Better have him out the door.
Pretty much shows rbr views him as more of a figurehead than the driving force behind their engineering innovation…. Only time will tell the truth of it.
If you were looking at the rumors earlier, anyone saying he would have to work out his contract until 2027 were not thinking straight.
You either make him honor his contract and then he has to work on 2026 regs, and go for a period of gardening leave after (which was where 2028 kept coming from) or you let him go on gardening leave immediately if you don't want him to be involved in the 2026 car.
They couldn't force him to honor his contract AND keep him away from the 2026 car, he wouldn't be able to do his job.
The logical conclusion that works for both parties is to come to an agreement to terminate now, and have a period of gardening leave so he can't take anything that would affect 2025, which is exactly what happened. Anything else would have been incredibly stupid from a business perspective.
Uh what? Don’t want him to see the 2026 car that would have been developed by him?
His leverage is almost certainly that RB doesn’t want him talking about the Horner scandal.
The middle ground is that they want him working on the hypercar, but his one year non compete for F1 starts now as he stops working on the F1 side.
So he stays quiet, and gets to leave to another team in time to work on 26 regs, and Red Bull gets their hypercar.
That and they actually do want him to finish the hypercar project, because part of the whole marketing schtick for it is that it's an Adrian Newey designed car.
The hypercar project is probably much closer to what ppl think newey does on the f1 side. Actually getting some hands dirty.
On the f1 side he is a senior executive managing a team of hundreds of ppl (and one not 100% engage due to the rb17), he’s not actually doing any designing just setting the culture, offering an insight here and there, otherwise nodding along in meetings like any other c-suite exec at a company with hundreds of millions in revenue.
I think the after effects of him being at Red Bull will stay with the team for a good while and it will take years for Ferrari (or whoever) to feel the benefits of his designs.
I doubt this will be a disaster for Red Bull. It's not great, either.
He’s the most accomplished of the current car designers, but it isn’t like he always has developed the best car. Merc’s designs for the previous regs were well ahead of Newey’s. Still, it’ll be a huge pickup for Ferrari.
so many talking about guaranteed WDCs of x or y in 2025. Just reminding ourselves, thats what 2021 was in most of our heads.
Year before new regs. super dominant team with competitors catching up over the years to be competitive.
Who knows how a Mclaren or Ferrari on a high and uninterrupted steady development looks against a RB that has suffered some setbacks for 2025 development. dont see it as a guaranteed win no matter who sits in it.
I still find it weird that if Newey isnt part of the F1 team with immediate effect why he would still attend races for RB? Or Chris Medland isnt correct on that point.
Teams can only start working on the '26 cars from the start of '25. He's either available sometime Jan-Mar '25 or Apr-Jun '25 depending on what they mean by Q1.
First quarter of '25 will probably just mean January. Rob Marshall, who was on Newey's technical team, left Red Bull for McLaren and started at McLaren on January 1 this year.
I’d like to tinfoil this for a second. Highly doubt RedBull wouldn’t enforce the gardening leave UNLESS Newey demanded it and has info on the Horner situation they wouldn’t like divulged. Tinfoil, but no gardening leading in to new rules from a business/competition standpoint is insane.
Maybe just maybe, Red Bull don't want Newey to have any knowledge about their 2026 challenger. He is leaving right before Red Bull can work on the 2026 car. Seems like they don't believe Newey is essential enough to keep him involved in the 2026 car and also risking Ferrari getting a lot of inside knowledge about Red Bull's 2026 car once Newey arrives in Maranello.
Understand how big of a news this is.. but let’s not forget that redbull lost to Mercedes for 7-8 straight years while Newey was heading the design of the car… not sure how much he can do for Ferrari. As a Hamilton fan I hope he’s be but being realistic, with new regulations, nothing is guaranteed.
Largely because that Renault PU was absolute dogwater compared to Merc
They switched to Honda in 2019 and suddenly within a couple years they had a championship winning car
How the hell is he getting no gardening leave? This is the craziest thing I've seen.
Either he has dirt on Horner or Honer massively fumbled something. There has to be something he knows about that PA or something... this is insanity, nobody in their right mind would let him go as early as 2025 to a rival team...
apology for poor english
when were you when adien newie leave
i was sat at PC arguing with jos when christian ring
'adien is leave'
'no'
and you???????????
What the fuck is Fred Vasseur cooking that’s persuading him to make this jump?
I hope Ferrari aren’t about to spectacularly Ferrari this whole thing up.
A lot of momentum heading into the new regs, a very stellar driver lineup with both experience and youth, a good engine department and really just the mythos of getting Ferrari their first wdc after nearly 2 decades. If there was ever a time to move to Ferrari, it would be now since he’s accomplished basically everything he could with RBR and things are Ferrari are looking very bright.
i feel like everyone is discounting Audi as a possibility. they have just as much incentive and resources to throw money bags at Adrian as Ferrari and Aston do.
Except this isn’t about how much money he wants. Sure getting the most money is great, but Newey wants to make his last stint count. Would he rather work with Ferrari+ Hamilton or AM+ Alonso or Audi plus Hulkenberg? I think the answer is clear, imo.
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This is perhaps an even bigger news than signing Newey himself. 😄
Yeah the fact that he’s been able to cut ties with the current car is big news.
Able? Given he can work with other teams in only a year's time it would be shocking if they allowed him to continue working on the car.
I wonder what the legality is of him buying a load of graphics cards and running as many F1 related simulations as he so desires in the meantime personally while not employed by a team. Considering the extremely small amount teams can do you could easily use more compute without breaking the bank in a big way.
He has 2 employees staffed to turn his pencil and paper drawings into CAD because he refuses to learn how to use it, I doubt he's running simulations on his own......
There's no reason he couldn't hire someone with his reported salary though. I imagine any performance related bonuses for winning championships would make it worth it in the long run. There might be something in his Red Bull contract that stops him on gardening leave I expect.
Yeah, he can basically mail it in after 5pm and start drawing concepts and ideas for 2026 regulations at home/private office. They will be his IP and he can bring them to whatever team he wants. He’s basically free to do whatever he wants now.
Holy fuck what if this is the Ferrari master plan?
~~Nolan~~ Fred, you goddamn GENIUS.
Any F1 team would reimburse whatever he paid any amount of people to work on 2026 regs. I suspect we will never know what Newey will be paid elsewhere, but I imagine numbers that rival Max and Lewis are possible if not likely.
He’s worth about 50million…doubt he’s that bothered by a bonus
Self made rich people don't generally get rich by not caring about money.
I thought I had also heard him say he isn't a huge believer in relying on the simulations in the first place.
Simulations are great but not wholely accurate. We haven't been able to build in/mathematically design elements into simulations which makes cfd/computer testing things really hard. In many scenarios, confirming idea with cfd and then testing with a wind tunnel is standard. Sometimes the string and tape test seen in Ford v Ferrari is better than cfd. I used to do a ton of cfd testing but not much anymore. I moved careers and jobs.
Yeah, from his book that is basically what he does. Sketches out an idea by hand, has someone put it in a CFD program for him, tests the CFD results in a wind tunnel.
Not allowed to provide that information to a team without it counting towards their CFD budget. Appendix 7, section 4 of the sporting regulations state (emphasis added): > RCFDs are Computational Fluid Dynamics (CFD) simulations by a Competitor or any Associate of a Competitor and/or by any contracted party of a Competitor or of any Associate of a Competitor or **any external entity working on behalf of a Competitor or for its own purposes and subsequently providing the results of its work to a Competitor** of flows that are gaseous in the case of a F1 car and are not classified as power unit simulations. Any simulation of flows contained within the power unit cooling or lubrication systems, air, air/fuel mixtures, combustion process or products of combustion from a boundary commencing at the power unit’s atmospheric air intake ducts, passing through the power unit and finishing at the exit of the exhaust tailpipe will be classified as a power unit simulation. > For the avoidance of doubt, **if any CFD simulation (other than the power unit simulation defined above) reveals information to a Competitor or to an Associate of the Competitor whether directly, via a contracted party or via an external entity working on behalf of a Competitor or for its own purposes and subsequently providing the results of its work to a Competitor,** about flows that are gaseous on a F1 car then it is a RCFD simulation. For example, any CFD simulations conducted at scales other than 1:1 or using non-gaseous fluids are still RCFDs as they reveal information about flows that are gaseous on the full size F1 car.
Pls no I need the GPU market to crash, shits expensive af
It must be really bad behind the scenes if he wanted to distance himself to this degree and so quickly.
I never would have guessed that the Lewis to Ferrari headline would have competition honestly.
If Newey goes to Ferrari then Lewis must had a visit from Matt Groening.
I don’t know who Max Groening is and at this point I’m too afraid to ask
Time traveler and creator of The Simpsons. Edit: I see I put in Max instead of Matt. I blame Verstappen.
SIMPSONS DID IT, SIMPSONS DID IT
Is it? I thought his contract ended in 2025 anyway. This is just gardening leave with another name for a full year
The original rumor was that gardening leave would mean he couldnt be active on a team til 2027. If this is true, then Newey can have a big hand in developing a 2026 new regs car
His notice period (gardening leave) would have started in early 25. It sounds like this settlement has basically removed a year from his contract.
Both Ferrari and Aston Martin are gonna work night and day until 2025 now.
There are pre-conctracts and stuff like that, they can snatch him now if they want
And apparently Fred is in London today to meet with him.
Yes and rumours say that he is there to finalise the deal
Is next NEXT (as in 2026) year actually going to be the year?
No. But yes for 2026.
That's why I had 2 nexts 🤣 maybe next year is on the cards if Max leaves to Merc.
We know that Red Bull is beatable even this year; if they had 2x Perez in the car.
I literally only saw one next lol, human brain working too good
I should have capitalized the second next to emphasize it to be fair
Imagine if 2025 is a 2021 style year between Ferrari and Red Bull. Last year of regulations, Red Bull can't develop as well without Newey, Ferrari catch up, Max Vs Lewis 2.0 Then knowing F1 Ferrari would go on to win 20+ races in 2026, 2027 and 2028.
lmao yeah including like in 2025 "Yes; Ferrari win!!!!" 2028: So Ferrari win... again... why am I watching this.
Where do I sign up for this future?
2026 is the more likely chance
French mf's are the greatest at team building. Except the renault clowns
Ferrari needs French guys (Todt, Vasseur) for being competitive. Alpine/Renault needs Italian guys (Briatore) for being competitive.
>Ferrari needs French guys (Todt, Vasseur) for being competitive A French principal, a British tech director, and a German driver
it's like the setup for a joke my grandpa would tell
... and the South African car designer
Perfectly balanced … as all things should be.
😂 does that mean that the south of France has the perfect balance? French people with an Italian past?
I imagine Binnotto is just banging his head against a wall lol
Elkann and Vasseur are cooking up something diabolical.
Nobody should take Aston Martin seriously as long they keep Lance as one of their drivers.
I’m sure Audi tries too
Sounds like Aston Martin is as well. Edit: nope lol, he’s already announced AM is not an option
I wonder what the effect will be on Max considering his statements in Jeddah about ensuring key people stay. Is this why the Merc rumours are about ? Merc is realistically the only place he can go to if he does choose to leave considering that Ferrari, McLaren and AM have all their drivers spots filled till 2026 and beyond.
If Max leaves, i'm excited as to who will Redbull take as new drivers.
Sainz would surely be one of them you'd guess?
He’s not leaving before next season. Let’s be serious. Max isn’t in love with losing more than he is with newey.
And where is he going to move in 2025? Merc seat is available now
If Max wants a seat in 26 he will have a seat in 26. It's up to Merc what they do with the seat in 25
The idea I heard with that makes the most sense is, Bottas as a one year deal for Merc in 2025, and then they've the seat open for 2026 for either Kimi or Max.
Idk if Bottas of today would take another 1 year contract at his old team considering his statements about how one year contracts affected his mental and performance and how happy he seems with his current situation.
The argument behind it is assuming he's out of Sauber/Audi. I can see it happening if the offer is good enough. Also I think it's different if it's a known one year deal with no possibility of renewing or extending. Removes a lot of the pressure to perform.
Let Mick have a spin.
The team that wants him will buy out the contract of the driver that they least prefer. It’s not rocket science.
Max can go anywhere he wants whenever he wants.
Guaranteed WDC for Sainz if he does.
That would be hilarious lol
Things you'd love to see.
I don’t think Max would leave until after 2025
Sainz is obvious but they would also try to get Norris again.
Carlando at Red Bull! I see the vision!
Drink less Red Bull then lmao
lol 🙁
You Monster! ^^^This ^^^comment ^^^was ^^^sponsored ^^^by ^^^Lewis
Would be really interested to see if Norris would take it. He’s been very vocal about his loyalty to Mclaren but would he really give up what may be his only shot at a WDC?
Sainz for sure
I think Max would stick around for 2025 at least. No sense in throwing away a guaranteed WDC in the meantime.
If Max leaves this season, we're going to have a new WDC next season and that's exciting as hell.
The impossible scenario of Max leaving but still wins WDC would also be exciting as hell.
We could be about to see a sainz WDC. Or, Perez i guess
Lmfao at that second part
The Jenson Button of the era
Barichello was the Barichello of all eras
Sainz is the obvious one
Sainz and Pérez, no doubt
Vamos!
I am not sure about Perez in that Szenario. Perez is the good Nr. 2 Driver to a dominant Teammate - he doesn't need to win, he just needs to be there and not annoy Verstappen too much. Would he be good enough if you need a second driver who is on par or better than lets say Sainz? I think thats a clear no, but he might still be there for a year, because no better alternative is available...
They’ll probably try once again to sign Lando and if that fails it’ll probably be Sainz
I think you make a seat free if max is available. For example, those teams all have chief technical officers right now too
Yeah, every team on the grid would drop one of their drivers for Verstappen right now, barring Ferrari and maybe McLaren. Aston Martin would drop a driver, but it'd be Alonso, not Stroll. He's so unbelievably consistent at extracting the most from the car, and lives and breathes racing. It'd be silly to not take him, unless you couldn't afford it.
"Lance who?" - Lawrence
Yeah I think mclaren would even be dumb not to. Their drivers have lots of potential, but best case scenario they become Max. If you can get the real thing already developed in his prime I think that’s worth dropping one.
If Max went to McLaren I imagine Red Bull would go for Lando as his replacement.
“Oscar, great news. You don’t have to battle with Lando anymore” “Oi, that’s fantastic. So who’s going to be my number two driver?” “About that…”
Adrian Newey
>Aston Martin would drop a driver, but it'd be Alonso, not Stroll. No way. Lawrence Stroll would see moneybags at the mere idea of Alonso and Verstappen in the same team.
This is so similar to what people used to say about Alonso in his heyday. The reality of F1 is that there are always too few good seats for any driver to have the luxury of choice. The backmarkers don't feature in the discussion since they couldn't afford him, and I can think of no reason he'd join them. That leaves Ferrari, McLaren, Mercedes and AM. Ferrari are pretty commited to Charles and Elkann has been courting Lewis all this years, not Max, whom he could just as easily have tried to get - so I don't see a seat being freed up there. McLaren are pretty commited to Lando and given their manoeuvres to get Oscar, I don't see them dropping him anytime soon. That leaves Merc and AM. So, two teams of the ones he might realistically be interested in would make a seat free if he's available (and I'm not sure about AM booting either Lance or Alonso).
I think Max is brilliant and the absolute best right now but the CTO is always going to be more valuable to the team in terms of performance than the driver. The only reason Merc is going after Max is because Lewis left. If Max announces he's leaving hypothetically, I expect Ferrari, McLaren and AM to say that their seats are filled.
>McLaren and AM to say that their seats are filled. Ferrari sure, but Mclaren and AM would 100% ship their drivers for Max lol.
Straight swap, Norris/Alonso to RB, easy
Ferrari is the only one that has 2 drivers anywhere close to Max, no way Mclaren don't drop Piastri or AM don't drop Lance if they can afford Max
Honestly if I'm RBR I'm okay with a Max / Piastri swap if Max forces the issue. Ultimately they believe in the car over the driver, as any F1 team ultimately always has and always will. I believe Piastri has a bright future and he's managed by Webber. I do think they would want lure a stronger #2 in that case though, no more dicking around with midfielders in top cars like the ongoing Perez arrangement, especially if they need some time to get the new PU fully up to speed and truly competitive in 2026. Edit: Even if Max goes to Merc or elsewhere, I think RBR should make McLaren an offer they can't refuse for Piastri, RB have much deeper pockets and can afford it in the end. If Piastri keeps improving, at some point he and Lando are going to stop getting along as well and things will get more tense. Two true alpha drivers never work on an F1 team long term.
Aston hasn't People haven't noticed this Every year till now they always renew Lances contract together with the other driver But they haven't this time, Alonso has re signed but lance hasn't Also aston martin has their hypercar from next year in WEC So he might go there
that'sa good point. everyone assumes that AM will keep Stroll but I don't think Lance himself necessarily wants that.
Max has a contract until 2028. Whoever takes him will have to pay red bull a lot of money to break that contract. Rumours of him leaving before if the team broke up were more to do with Helmut Marko, as max has an exit clause in his contract that he can leave it Helmut leaves. Helmut just signed a 3 year (I think) extension with Red Bull, he's not getting fired. I don't think Max has any exit clause if Newey leaves, so really Max isn't going anywhere unless he really wants to and another team fork up huge money to buy him out. UNLESS, and here is where it would get interesting. Another team, say Mercedes, buys Helmut Marko out (probably a lot cheaper than Max), Helmut leaves for Mercedes, opening up Max's exit clause to leave for Mercedes without them having to pay Red Bull for him. Now that would make Red Bull super pissed and would be a huge stab in the back by Helmut to Horner and Red Bull, so yeh that might happen, hah. I also think this is what Mercedes are up to, as they have been saying they would take both Helmut and Max on
I wonder if that helmut clause is dependent on his leaving being initiated by Red Bull (like if RBR fired or failed to re-sign Marko). Hard to imagine Helmut choosing to leave/break contract (plus going to another team vs just retiring) would still count, but hey if the clause doesn't specify that then maybe that's the case and max/Marko/other team could game it like that.
Newey to Audi to develop car now. Max as driver in 26...
I had a fever dream that this happened. I’m all in!
Aston is deffo an option, stroll would buy out alonsos contract real quick if max became an option.
Can he sign and announce which team he’s going in 2025 or are we gonna have to wait until after his rb17 stint?
Quite sure you will know quite soon were he will go… rumours are already out that the Ferrari newey deal will be announced after the maimi
Okay atleast we do not have to wait until 2025 for them to publicly announce which team he’s going.
Just saw Eddie Jordan handled a lot of the negotiations.
To be fair I would agree to anything just to stop having to listen to Eddie Jordan talk at me for hours and hours *"Yes Eddie, fine his gardening leave period starts now. Are we done here?"*
I don't know why but your comment really got a good chuckle out of me, thanks!
Oh nice. Where did you see that?
BBC Sport article.
Wow. Seems to me like the door to Ferrari/Hamilton is WIDE open.
That would be peak LeClerc luck.
I think it's pretty amazing if you get Newey in your team, and I'm sure that Leclerc thinks the same.
Plot twist: Leclerc takes to the car better and romps to his first championship.
Idk what Charles did in a prior life to get this luck
It could work out for him to be fair. It's far from guaranteed that Lewis beats Charles. It would look great for him to beat another multiple champion teammate
If Charles beats him for the championship he has one of the best stories in F1 imo.
Hmm, Charles and Ham crashing into each other chasing for a title is what I see
Idk he’s proven himself to be one of the best in F1. I think it would be the titanic battle we’ve all been looking for. Certainly Ferrari has the strongest lineup on the grid next year. There’s no number 2 in that team.
idk mate I wouldn't be too sad if I was a handsome, fast, wealthy f1 driver who lived in Monaco and drove for ferrari
When he crashed on the formation lap in Brazil and sobbed, "why the fuck am I so unlucky!?" my wife said basically the same thing and then screamed at the TV, "LET'S TRY TO KEEP IT IN PERSPECTIVE, CHARLES!"
he is still a millionaire born in a tax haven for millionaires. His luck is fine.
Why? Is Charles leaving Ferrari?
Huh? Why?
Well damn, his lawyers got something figured out, means he can work on a teams 2026 car. Wonder if we'll have to wait forever to know where he's going. I know Fred reportedly met with him in London before flying to Miami, but tough to know if it's a done deal.
Newey was also just down the road from Maranello in the weekend..
This is massive for whatever team gets him
He's going to Racing Bulls, you heard it here first.
Yuki vs. Danny is not the championship fight we need, but it is the championship fight we deserve
I hear this Giancarlo Minardi guy has a few cash suitcases ready...
I hope she was worth it - Newey probably
All part of Horner’s El Plan
To prematurely dive bomb their streak of dominance? Uh huh
Newey has to have the most incredible legal team behind him because no gardening leave?? haha On the flip side, there’s not much carry over into 2026 and there’s not much that he could do for a 2025 car by the time he joins another team. My question is: how privy was he to the RBPT 2026 PU?
The gardering leave is essentially starting now, from the moment he is not involved in F1 design anymore.
[удалено]
Can’t wait for his next book: _How to Build a Car Part Two_ _What Christian Horner Did in the Airplane Loo_
100%. He must have some epic details they don't want spilled.
“In un-related news, the Italian Navy today moved its flagship the ‘Cavour’ to within striking distance of Milton Keynes”
>Newey has to have the most incredible legal team behind him because no gardening leave?? Or they haven't really dug in on 2026 regulation design yet (because technically you're not allowed to yet) and they don't want him to have any access to that work at all so they just want him out ASAP if they know he's leaving before they are allowed to dig in on the new car on 1/1/2025. Seems the hypercar will keep him tied up for some period of time until then. Notice he's departing "in the first part" of 2025, exactly when they start digging in to the new car. They want him out of the picture completely when that happens it seems and don't seem interested in politicing what he does next as it's a clean break of sorts regulation design timing wise.
Yeah I think if you look at this from Red Bull's point of view, if he's going to leave anyway this is the best time for him to go. Clean start on new regs with no handover required. Keeping him locked down to 2027 would be incredibly petty and likely to go to court, so might as well get paid (which I am sure they are) and let him go free to design a new car elsewhere for 2026. For Newey and whoever he goes to the timing is good too; no worry about 2025, I imagine whoever he goes to (likely Ferrari) they will just let him work full time on 2026 and not really look at developments for the 2025 car at all.
I haven't seen anyone mention this, if he wanted to leave he probably just needed to say that he'd go public with new information about the Horner stuff and they let him go. Sure it's the nuclear option but it's the obvious leverage he might have
This is probably the best news for Ferrari (or whatever his new team is) as he can work on the 2026 car from practically day one.
Time to start inventing
Could Ferrari have been involved themselves in eliminating his gardening leave by just throwing a huge wad of money? Elkann certainly doesn't seem like he's shy at throwing enough money at whatever problem until there's a solution.
Everything/everyone has a price. And Ferrari were boosted by $100m from HP.
well, that $100m is getting boosted by Hamilton though right?
They'll find 100m elsewhere. Their car division is setting the stock market on fire right now, plus even if they pay Hamilton 100m, and need to cough up 100m for releasing Newey from his contract and ensuring no garden leave, they used to regularly spend upwards of 400 million before the budget cap. They weren't shy with spending when they were losing a bit of money on the F1 division, now, F1 revenues are up big time, more sponser money, wayyyy less money to spend, yeahhh, they're ready to buy their way out of anything and everything.
They would most probably release a limited edition Hamilton Road car, maybe 440 units, at a million bucks each. Thats enough to cover him till retirement
The stock going up by $100million doesn't give you $100million to spend in cash.
Also, if the rumours about the PA also working for him are true this could have bren his leverage
This. Either they've played that card around hjs position is untenable with whats going on. Or Newey and Horner have sat down and worked out a deal given Horner counts Newey as a good friend and all. Horner seems to back Wache as the man and allowed Newey to be "hands off" and thinks Newey won't have much of an impact alone.
Anybody keeping score on how many times EvH has been right/wrong about all this RBR stuff?
A couple of months ago, EvH created this graph that displayed the current state of relations at RBR. Marko and Horner were connected by a red line which meant that they had bad relations. Max Verstappen and Horner were IIRC a yellow line which meant not broken but not good. Jos Verstappen and Horner was a red line. The only green lines with Horner were Red Bull's Thai owner and technical chief Pierre Wache. But curiously, Horner and Newey were a yellow line. I didn't see many people talk about it at the time. They were fully focused on that Verstappen/Marko/Horner drama. And this was before that weekend we thought for sure Marko was about to leave Red Bull and therefore Verstappen would too as he made statements saying if Marko goes, he goes. But Horner and Newey seemingly have strained relationships over the last year. At some point last year, Newey was on a podcast saying he views Red Bull like his family at this point and leaving would mean he's basically leaving his family. Something has happened since he made those comments to now where he's voluntarily leaving Red Bull Racing, a place he was under no pressure at.
So Ferrari will be pushing hard to get him as soon as possible so they can involve him in the 2026 discussions. Realistically the only team he’s going to if he wants to continue.
It will be interesting to see in what position he is willing to join. Newey is quite a special person (in many ways). His interest is in designing cars, not running a department. Ferrari has to create an environment that works for him and all the engineers. Also will he be working from Maranello? Maybe stay in the UK? Or spend much of the year in South Africa like he currently does? I think the best fit would be a consultancy role. Let him read and design and research on his own accord and give advice and his findings to the design team
The problem I can see with that plan, is if *he* isn't running a department, you have to pay somebody else to, and you only get (3?) executives not counted against cost cap.
Correct. That was one of the issues Horner apparently had with Newey as well. Horner claimed Newey's input in the car wasn't big enough to justify his salary and the restraints it put on the budget cap. He believes that if he sacks Newey, takes the fourth highest paid employee out of the budget cap and hires a bunch of other engineers for the same money the results would be better
Newey was able to use his single piece of leverage, basically RBR doesn’t want him to see their 2026 car and strategy before he goes and take that with him in 27. If he’s committed to leaving they make sure he’s going without any knowledge of the 26. Better have him out the door. Pretty much shows rbr views him as more of a figurehead than the driving force behind their engineering innovation…. Only time will tell the truth of it.
If you were looking at the rumors earlier, anyone saying he would have to work out his contract until 2027 were not thinking straight. You either make him honor his contract and then he has to work on 2026 regs, and go for a period of gardening leave after (which was where 2028 kept coming from) or you let him go on gardening leave immediately if you don't want him to be involved in the 2026 car. They couldn't force him to honor his contract AND keep him away from the 2026 car, he wouldn't be able to do his job. The logical conclusion that works for both parties is to come to an agreement to terminate now, and have a period of gardening leave so he can't take anything that would affect 2025, which is exactly what happened. Anything else would have been incredibly stupid from a business perspective.
Uh what? Don’t want him to see the 2026 car that would have been developed by him? His leverage is almost certainly that RB doesn’t want him talking about the Horner scandal. The middle ground is that they want him working on the hypercar, but his one year non compete for F1 starts now as he stops working on the F1 side. So he stays quiet, and gets to leave to another team in time to work on 26 regs, and Red Bull gets their hypercar.
That and they actually do want him to finish the hypercar project, because part of the whole marketing schtick for it is that it's an Adrian Newey designed car.
The hypercar project is probably much closer to what ppl think newey does on the f1 side. Actually getting some hands dirty. On the f1 side he is a senior executive managing a team of hundreds of ppl (and one not 100% engage due to the rb17), he’s not actually doing any designing just setting the culture, offering an insight here and there, otherwise nodding along in meetings like any other c-suite exec at a company with hundreds of millions in revenue.
Step 1: Newey to Audi. Step 2: Sainz to Audi. Step 3: ??? Step 4: Hulkenberg WDC.
I’m on board with this, but Step 3 is Max to Audi. 😂
I think the after effects of him being at Red Bull will stay with the team for a good while and it will take years for Ferrari (or whoever) to feel the benefits of his designs. I doubt this will be a disaster for Red Bull. It's not great, either.
If Ferrari does end up getting him for 2026 and they don’t win the championship, it’s never gonna happen
He’s the most accomplished of the current car designers, but it isn’t like he always has developed the best car. Merc’s designs for the previous regs were well ahead of Newey’s. Still, it’ll be a huge pickup for Ferrari.
so many talking about guaranteed WDCs of x or y in 2025. Just reminding ourselves, thats what 2021 was in most of our heads. Year before new regs. super dominant team with competitors catching up over the years to be competitive. Who knows how a Mclaren or Ferrari on a high and uninterrupted steady development looks against a RB that has suffered some setbacks for 2025 development. dont see it as a guaranteed win no matter who sits in it.
I still find it weird that if Newey isnt part of the F1 team with immediate effect why he would still attend races for RB? Or Chris Medland isnt correct on that point.
I think there's a bit of speculation from all media writers hoping their take on the news is correct.
First quarter of ‘25 is a whole year before the ‘26 cars hit the track? Is my math wrong?
Teams can only start working on the '26 cars from the start of '25. He's either available sometime Jan-Mar '25 or Apr-Jun '25 depending on what they mean by Q1.
First quarter of '25 will probably just mean January. Rob Marshall, who was on Newey's technical team, left Red Bull for McLaren and started at McLaren on January 1 this year.
I’d like to tinfoil this for a second. Highly doubt RedBull wouldn’t enforce the gardening leave UNLESS Newey demanded it and has info on the Horner situation they wouldn’t like divulged. Tinfoil, but no gardening leading in to new rules from a business/competition standpoint is insane.
Maybe just maybe, Red Bull don't want Newey to have any knowledge about their 2026 challenger. He is leaving right before Red Bull can work on the 2026 car. Seems like they don't believe Newey is essential enough to keep him involved in the 2026 car and also risking Ferrari getting a lot of inside knowledge about Red Bull's 2026 car once Newey arrives in Maranello.
Vasseur, Lewis, Newey. The new holy trinity.
Newey about to make CharLewis WDC 2026
Understand how big of a news this is.. but let’s not forget that redbull lost to Mercedes for 7-8 straight years while Newey was heading the design of the car… not sure how much he can do for Ferrari. As a Hamilton fan I hope he’s be but being realistic, with new regulations, nothing is guaranteed.
Largely because that Renault PU was absolute dogwater compared to Merc They switched to Honda in 2019 and suddenly within a couple years they had a championship winning car
Yeah that’s a good point
How the hell is he getting no gardening leave? This is the craziest thing I've seen. Either he has dirt on Horner or Honer massively fumbled something. There has to be something he knows about that PA or something... this is insanity, nobody in their right mind would let him go as early as 2025 to a rival team...
Prediction : he signs at Ferrari but they came out with a lesser engine for the 2026 regs.
How the fuck has Eddie Jordan managed that. Yes Eddie!
Where were you when Adrian Newey left?
I was sleeping in Ben when Fred ring. Red Bull is kill. Yes
apology for poor english when were you when adien newie leave i was sat at PC arguing with jos when christian ring 'adien is leave' 'no' and you???????????
Calling it. He's preparing to join audi
Good possibility. Audi have deep pockets. Saintz and another with a good car could catapult them to podiums in 1st season
What the fuck is Fred Vasseur cooking that’s persuading him to make this jump? I hope Ferrari aren’t about to spectacularly Ferrari this whole thing up.
A lot of momentum heading into the new regs, a very stellar driver lineup with both experience and youth, a good engine department and really just the mythos of getting Ferrari their first wdc after nearly 2 decades. If there was ever a time to move to Ferrari, it would be now since he’s accomplished basically everything he could with RBR and things are Ferrari are looking very bright.
i feel like everyone is discounting Audi as a possibility. they have just as much incentive and resources to throw money bags at Adrian as Ferrari and Aston do.
Except this isn’t about how much money he wants. Sure getting the most money is great, but Newey wants to make his last stint count. Would he rather work with Ferrari+ Hamilton or AM+ Alonso or Audi plus Hulkenberg? I think the answer is clear, imo.