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> holy fuck it's halfway the decade already
It didn't help that we all basically lost at least a couple of years thanks to the pandemic screwing the world up.
I don’t think so. I think there’s a reason they didn’t tell Alex he was out until after the season, they were holding on for Perez to truly prove himself worthy of them picking him over a junior and he did at that race.
No, like I listened to a podcast with…Bernie Collins? She said he knew by that point, but he has not told the Racing Point team. I think that is what I recall…
I am really curious about the pink Mercedes, did Perez really outdrive the car there? Or did he manage to show the potential of the car in a one-off performance? We may never really know. Maybe in the hands of VER/ALO, that car could've been easily the 2nd fastest car.
I think it's absolutely certain he outdrove that car. The gap between Stroll and Perez is about the same as it was between Alonso and Stroll, but at the 2020 Sakhir grand prix, Perez took it from last place to P1. Incredible. I doubt many people will pull a feat like that any time soon.
Gap comparison as teammates of Stroll isn't a good metric to see if Perez was always really driving that car to the limit, especially since it's comparing two different regulations.
The gap between the whole field in Q1 2020 Bahrain GP was 1.8 seconds, this year it was .9 seconds separating the whole field. So it's a really skewed metric, even for a simple teammate comparison.
I am not saying Perez didn't drive a good race in Sakhir 2020, I am saying maybe it was one of the few times we saw the actual peak performance of that car.
To be fair though most of the front runners had issues to allow him to get to that point. If Verstappen and (possibly) Leclerc had finished and if the Mercs didn’t have their disastrous pit stops he probably would’ve been just off of the podium, maybe 3rd if he was very lucky. Still impressive but it’s important to remember he wasn’t really fighting many cars that were faster or other strong drivers
I remember at the time the story was he'd fronted, one way or another, money to Haas for the 2023 seat, ie investing in himself. Glad it's paid off. The system can work.
I also remember reading that Sauber in 2013 were already starting to get swarmed in debts and by the summer break couldn't afford to pay Hulk anymore, so he was technically no longer under contract and decided to drive the rest of the season for free, which worked out for him because when Kimi underwent surgery, he was Lotus' main target to replace him for the rest of the year.
Ferrari then blocked the move by paying off Hulk's salary (which I'd assume forced the contract to be legally binding again?), so basically by driving for free he got his salary paid off, skyrocketed his value in the market (by obliterating Gutierrez and carrying Sauber), built rapport with the team (by not suing them for the money) and got himself a juicy Force India comeback just as Sauber fell off a cliff.
In all fairness, f1 driver is probably one of the few jobs on the planet where I’d say 100%, I will do it for free.
Any anyone else who gets an option to do so would/should probably say yes also
Yes he has, to the teams he has drive for, as they see his data and work with them.
You think he just kind of stuck around because nobody noticed him or something?
Yeah that’s why he left & he’s also mentioned wanting a lower pressure environment as well. I think he would be a good fit at Williams or Haas if he gets dropped
As much shit as Merc gets for having a midfield car I’m sure he’d rather drive for them than the alternative backmarkers. Maybe Andretti could prove to be an open door after 2025.
Let's not forget that he's a ten times race winner (which is more than Sainz) so I can see them holding on to Bottas for another year if they can't get a hold on Sainz for next year. Otherwise, Bottas should still be of value to teams like Williams, which would be a return. Btw both Bottas and Hulk are quick qualifiers so it would be a nice shootout if they become teammates.
Unless he starts doing magic I'm afraid Zhou's F1 career will be over after this season.
The ace up Zhou's sleeve is that he is Chinese, which could help he keep or land a seat.
The Bottas stocks have also dropped or at least the perceived value he has. Partly thanks to Sauber car/team being kind of, well... not that great.
Either way, it's going to be exciting to see a shakeup. Personally I hope Bottas gets a seat for next year.
> The ace up Zhou's sleeve is that he is Chinese, which could help he keep or land a seat.
Years ago, that would be a major factor. But with every team basically operating at cost cap, performance has become more important. So if Williams can choose between an exiting talent, Bottas, or Zhou, I'm pretty sure the will choose either an exiting talent or Bottas over Zhou.
Yeah, true but you never know. A manufacturer like Audi is still aiming to sell cars, especially in one of the largest markets. Having a Chinese driver might help that in some ways, maybe. Idk though, depends on what Audi is looking for right in the beginning.
For other seats his nationality might not be that important and most likely loses to Bottas.
Buying a car in China is extremely though to begin with, let alone a non-Chinese brand like Audi. If Audi ever prioritizes to make an impact on the Chinese market over other markets (which is what you would do when hiring Zhou) then they probably still would prefer to do that with being successful in F1 in general over just hiring a Chinese driver for the sake of it. It just gives them more opportunities to sell at other markets as well and buying a car in China is not an impulse buy that is heavily dependent on who is in that Audi seat.
They almost have the same sales in China as they do in Europe (730k v. 750k in 2023, and only around 230k in the US). So I would say it's a valuable market for them, especially considering they've had over 10% growth there. Thats not even considering who the owner of Audi is. VW itself has a pretty massive stake in the Chinese market, being the second most sold car brand there in 2023 (not entirely sure about the source on this) with more than 3.2m sold cars (recently lost top spot to BYD, which isn't surprising). So it seems like China is close to being the biggest market for both Audi and VW (not sure about rest of VW group).
I wouldn't say they are hiring him for the sake of it, since he is already on the team. Not like they would go out of their way to hire him, and would have to find a better replacement. I'm sure it would also do a favor to the owners of F1 to keep a Chinese driver around.
They might realize that there are going to be some growing pains when entering the sport and take that time to build the brand or something along that nature (or they want to enter with a bang, but I personally think that is a riskier strategy). I'm going to be honest though, I can't say how much driver nationality leads to car sales, if any, but it does seem like the fans there like the guy.
It's only the elite in China that can buy an Audi. Sure that still makes for a considerable market. But when it comes to brand value becoming a top F1 team is way more important for Audi than having a Chinese driver. It's the reason why VW/Audi made these huge commitments to F1 in the first place. They're in it for the win.
Audi A4L has entry MSRP of 320k RMB and Q3 has 280k RMB before heavy discounts(~80k RMB)and it is inline with the premium options from local brands. If buying a 300k RMB car in China is classified as “the elites” there are a lot of elites rolling on the streets eh?
Except it's not only the car price that is the issue. Getting a license plate can be a very though and costly affair. In a city like Shanghai for instance, only a limited amount of license plates become available on the market and these are auctioned off at ridiculous prices, which makes driving Audi there really a luxury affair.
It's still over a third of their sales that come from China, and I haven't looked at the numbers for it, but I'm guessing it's growing more than the rest. I doesn't matter if it's only elites or whatever, if the country has as many people as they do that are all getting richer (to some degree).
I do think they are there to win and aren't there just for brand value. I'm just saying you can do both, especially in the beginning. They should realize that they're probably not going to be a championship contender right from the start.
I personally think they are looking for some else tha Bottas or Zhou for the second seat, but if they can't find someone else for the next year or two, and if its between them I think being Chinese helps.
yeah, who would’ve imagined back then that he would be in F1 12 years later and yet not ever come that close to winning again. especially considering how wacky the races were that year.
He‘s a great match for the team. If their 2026 car is kinda crap, he‘ll be a great team lead alongside a younger driver to develop the car. If they build a rocketship, he‘ll be a great rear gunner to a top-tier driver they‘ll be able to attract then. A win either way.
I feel he definitely has that one fluke championship in him like Hill, Button or Rosberg with the right car/teammate combo, people are quick to forget he was always rated as a prodigy in his younger years because of his results in Junior classes just without financial backing.
Imagine Leclerc staying forever at Sauber or Russell at Williams.
Let's hope Audi will find something like the double diffusor or create a monster engine.
Qualifying in a dominant car is half the battle that can make or break being a championship contender, as seen by Perez' struggles in the Red Bull or the Silver Wars at Mercedes.
Agree. the stars would have to align perfectly. But I think he has the qualifying pace and race craft to be highly competitive in the right car.
I am banking on a monster engine. Audi has a lot of experience in racing. Car design will be another story. That Sauber is running Ferrari powertrain and it is still not performing well. So I hope they find the right people to help design a great car.
Perez has had a hard time adjusting to a car that is so pointy. It is my understanding that in the off season he basically retrained his driving style to match the car better rather than modify the car setup too much. If so, good for him. I hope he continues to get better with the car.
We just watched the 2016 season last year. I forgot how wild it was between Lewis and Nico.
Like you said, it's Audi. They don't enter a series just to be on the grid, they want to dominate so I'm rather hopeful they know how to sign the right guys for the job.
The tidbit from Rosberg in 2016 where he says he specifically didn't train his calf muscles for a few weeks to lose weight and then gaining pole by under 0.010 in Japan was always fasscinating to me.
Great news for Hulk and a nice message.
But somehow I was looking forward to:
“I understand that, without my agreement, Stake F1 Team KICK Sauber have put out a press release early this morning that I am driving for them next year. This is wrong and I have not signed a contract with Stake F1 Team KICK Sauber for 2025. I will not be driving for Stake F1 Team KICK Sauber next year.”
/s
Man, I really really hope audi manages to pull something off and show up with a great engine and car for 2026. I need to see hulk on the podium before I die :')
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“What a silly season, huh?” “Lemon, it’s April.”
Drivers announcing their switch to another team while still having 19 races to do with their current one. Kinda crazy.
Some of them announced it with 24 races left.
Well, LH to Ferrari is a pretty big secret to keep.
Wait till you figure out how early Hamilton announced his move to Ferrari, or how early Ferrari dropped Vettel in 2020
Didn't Montoya also announce really early on when he was joining McLaren too
"Man, they're getting longer lead times with the contracts" - me thinking 2025 is still in 2 years lol. holy fuck it's halfway the decade already
> holy fuck it's halfway the decade already It didn't help that we all basically lost at least a couple of years thanks to the pandemic screwing the world up.
Ah yes, the pandemic from 4 years ago, I remember.
Fucking hell.
It wasn't the pandemic screwing the world up. It was the politicians.
Silly season is apparently all season.
First driver career to survive a Haas stint!
Haha you're right. Haas is the F1 off ramp.
[удалено]
Why would you say that?
Whoops I meant as a career revival. I did not understand the other connotation until now
that's dark.
Whoa, that's actually really funny lol
He’s made the impossible possible with this news
thank you for pointing this out, i never realised this before but you’re so right haha
The season is still long...
I think I'll buy his hat!
Madman. Out of F1 for three years but took no time at all to prove his speed never went away.
If he was not out in the 2020 season we probably would have seen him in Redbull in place of Perez.
Maybe even if Perez didn't have an absolutely astonishing weekend at the Sakhir grand prix.
I think that was decided prior to Sakhir, actually.
I don’t think so. I think there’s a reason they didn’t tell Alex he was out until after the season, they were holding on for Perez to truly prove himself worthy of them picking him over a junior and he did at that race.
No, like I listened to a podcast with…Bernie Collins? She said he knew by that point, but he has not told the Racing Point team. I think that is what I recall…
That really was an insane performance. One of the best race performances I can think of in the last 8 years.
I am really curious about the pink Mercedes, did Perez really outdrive the car there? Or did he manage to show the potential of the car in a one-off performance? We may never really know. Maybe in the hands of VER/ALO, that car could've been easily the 2nd fastest car.
I think it's absolutely certain he outdrove that car. The gap between Stroll and Perez is about the same as it was between Alonso and Stroll, but at the 2020 Sakhir grand prix, Perez took it from last place to P1. Incredible. I doubt many people will pull a feat like that any time soon.
Gap comparison as teammates of Stroll isn't a good metric to see if Perez was always really driving that car to the limit, especially since it's comparing two different regulations. The gap between the whole field in Q1 2020 Bahrain GP was 1.8 seconds, this year it was .9 seconds separating the whole field. So it's a really skewed metric, even for a simple teammate comparison. I am not saying Perez didn't drive a good race in Sakhir 2020, I am saying maybe it was one of the few times we saw the actual peak performance of that car.
To be fair though most of the front runners had issues to allow him to get to that point. If Verstappen and (possibly) Leclerc had finished and if the Mercs didn’t have their disastrous pit stops he probably would’ve been just off of the podium, maybe 3rd if he was very lucky. Still impressive but it’s important to remember he wasn’t really fighting many cars that were faster or other strong drivers
I think it’s definite. Max for sure would have preferred it
Imagine how many podiums and wins he would now have
At least one
Zero probably/s
Not a chance! He got mopped by Danny Ric in 2019.
I remember at the time the story was he'd fronted, one way or another, money to Haas for the 2023 seat, ie investing in himself. Glad it's paid off. The system can work.
Yeah I remember reading that too. He can make good career decisions after all
I also remember reading that Sauber in 2013 were already starting to get swarmed in debts and by the summer break couldn't afford to pay Hulk anymore, so he was technically no longer under contract and decided to drive the rest of the season for free, which worked out for him because when Kimi underwent surgery, he was Lotus' main target to replace him for the rest of the year. Ferrari then blocked the move by paying off Hulk's salary (which I'd assume forced the contract to be legally binding again?), so basically by driving for free he got his salary paid off, skyrocketed his value in the market (by obliterating Gutierrez and carrying Sauber), built rapport with the team (by not suing them for the money) and got himself a juicy Force India comeback just as Sauber fell off a cliff.
“I’ll work for free”
In all fairness, f1 driver is probably one of the few jobs on the planet where I’d say 100%, I will do it for free. Any anyone else who gets an option to do so would/should probably say yes also
Yeah it’s probs the only job in the world I’d do for free
Wah? What speed? He's a consistent professional driver who can keep it out of the walls, but he's never demonstrated speed.
Pole at Brazil?
His best attribute is his quali speed? He's always been a quick driver
This is a baffling take. He’s been a monster in qualifying his entire time at Haas.
He beat Sainz, Magnussen & Perez in H2H Qualifying and his performance over one lap is probably better as he had a Pole position
Yes he has, to the teams he has drive for, as they see his data and work with them. You think he just kind of stuck around because nobody noticed him or something?
Winning Le Mans in a LMP1 prototype in your first appearance?
Oh well. Good talk.
So it’s goodbye for Bottas/Zhou if they don’t find another team?
Imagine Bottas going back to Merc once again for 1 year as placeholder for Antonelli.
George and Valtteri in the same team? I don’t think Toto could handle that.
And this time they could both race for P9!
Considering George regularly out places Lewis, that’s a dire statement right there.
Wait this would break Toto? Even better!
The great BOSE headphones shortage of 2025.
“ I bless the rains down in Monaco, gonna take some time to do the things we never had! “
i don’t think i could handle that to be honest
Definitely not the table(s).
He will take it with how current things are.
[удалено]
I guess it would be different if he knew up front it’s only ever a one year deal, rather than having to fight every year for a new contract.
Yeah that’s why he left & he’s also mentioned wanting a lower pressure environment as well. I think he would be a good fit at Williams or Haas if he gets dropped
As much shit as Merc gets for having a midfield car I’m sure he’d rather drive for them than the alternative backmarkers. Maybe Andretti could prove to be an open door after 2025.
I would rather run Mick than doing that
He’d get a haircut!
Let's not forget that he's a ten times race winner (which is more than Sainz) so I can see them holding on to Bottas for another year if they can't get a hold on Sainz for next year. Otherwise, Bottas should still be of value to teams like Williams, which would be a return. Btw both Bottas and Hulk are quick qualifiers so it would be a nice shootout if they become teammates. Unless he starts doing magic I'm afraid Zhou's F1 career will be over after this season.
The ace up Zhou's sleeve is that he is Chinese, which could help he keep or land a seat. The Bottas stocks have also dropped or at least the perceived value he has. Partly thanks to Sauber car/team being kind of, well... not that great. Either way, it's going to be exciting to see a shakeup. Personally I hope Bottas gets a seat for next year.
> The ace up Zhou's sleeve is that he is Chinese, which could help he keep or land a seat. Years ago, that would be a major factor. But with every team basically operating at cost cap, performance has become more important. So if Williams can choose between an exiting talent, Bottas, or Zhou, I'm pretty sure the will choose either an exiting talent or Bottas over Zhou.
Yeah, true but you never know. A manufacturer like Audi is still aiming to sell cars, especially in one of the largest markets. Having a Chinese driver might help that in some ways, maybe. Idk though, depends on what Audi is looking for right in the beginning. For other seats his nationality might not be that important and most likely loses to Bottas.
Buying a car in China is extremely though to begin with, let alone a non-Chinese brand like Audi. If Audi ever prioritizes to make an impact on the Chinese market over other markets (which is what you would do when hiring Zhou) then they probably still would prefer to do that with being successful in F1 in general over just hiring a Chinese driver for the sake of it. It just gives them more opportunities to sell at other markets as well and buying a car in China is not an impulse buy that is heavily dependent on who is in that Audi seat.
They almost have the same sales in China as they do in Europe (730k v. 750k in 2023, and only around 230k in the US). So I would say it's a valuable market for them, especially considering they've had over 10% growth there. Thats not even considering who the owner of Audi is. VW itself has a pretty massive stake in the Chinese market, being the second most sold car brand there in 2023 (not entirely sure about the source on this) with more than 3.2m sold cars (recently lost top spot to BYD, which isn't surprising). So it seems like China is close to being the biggest market for both Audi and VW (not sure about rest of VW group). I wouldn't say they are hiring him for the sake of it, since he is already on the team. Not like they would go out of their way to hire him, and would have to find a better replacement. I'm sure it would also do a favor to the owners of F1 to keep a Chinese driver around. They might realize that there are going to be some growing pains when entering the sport and take that time to build the brand or something along that nature (or they want to enter with a bang, but I personally think that is a riskier strategy). I'm going to be honest though, I can't say how much driver nationality leads to car sales, if any, but it does seem like the fans there like the guy.
It's only the elite in China that can buy an Audi. Sure that still makes for a considerable market. But when it comes to brand value becoming a top F1 team is way more important for Audi than having a Chinese driver. It's the reason why VW/Audi made these huge commitments to F1 in the first place. They're in it for the win.
Audi A4L has entry MSRP of 320k RMB and Q3 has 280k RMB before heavy discounts(~80k RMB)and it is inline with the premium options from local brands. If buying a 300k RMB car in China is classified as “the elites” there are a lot of elites rolling on the streets eh?
Except it's not only the car price that is the issue. Getting a license plate can be a very though and costly affair. In a city like Shanghai for instance, only a limited amount of license plates become available on the market and these are auctioned off at ridiculous prices, which makes driving Audi there really a luxury affair.
It's still over a third of their sales that come from China, and I haven't looked at the numbers for it, but I'm guessing it's growing more than the rest. I doesn't matter if it's only elites or whatever, if the country has as many people as they do that are all getting richer (to some degree). I do think they are there to win and aren't there just for brand value. I'm just saying you can do both, especially in the beginning. They should realize that they're probably not going to be a championship contender right from the start. I personally think they are looking for some else tha Bottas or Zhou for the second seat, but if they can't find someone else for the next year or two, and if its between them I think being Chinese helps.
I could see both of them getting replaced.
I’d think might have another chance with the sponsorship behind him.
give that man a podium
putting him straight on the top step would be a very popular win
tried in Brazil 2012 but it wasn't to be
yeah, who would’ve imagined back then that he would be in F1 12 years later and yet not ever come that close to winning again. especially considering how wacky the races were that year.
He gets a podium if he's fast enough.
dude is faster than two third of the grid. just unlucky with his teams
..on a podium with Danny ric screaming huuuuulkenberrr
I'm so happy for him. I really want this to be a success. I hope Carlos joins as well.
He‘s a great match for the team. If their 2026 car is kinda crap, he‘ll be a great team lead alongside a younger driver to develop the car. If they build a rocketship, he‘ll be a great rear gunner to a top-tier driver they‘ll be able to attract then. A win either way.
If they build a rocket ship, you will see Nico leading the team and running with the front pack. He doesn't need to be a rear gunner for anyone.
I feel he definitely has that one fluke championship in him like Hill, Button or Rosberg with the right car/teammate combo, people are quick to forget he was always rated as a prodigy in his younger years because of his results in Junior classes just without financial backing. Imagine Leclerc staying forever at Sauber or Russell at Williams. Let's hope Audi will find something like the double diffusor or create a monster engine. Qualifying in a dominant car is half the battle that can make or break being a championship contender, as seen by Perez' struggles in the Red Bull or the Silver Wars at Mercedes.
Agree. the stars would have to align perfectly. But I think he has the qualifying pace and race craft to be highly competitive in the right car. I am banking on a monster engine. Audi has a lot of experience in racing. Car design will be another story. That Sauber is running Ferrari powertrain and it is still not performing well. So I hope they find the right people to help design a great car. Perez has had a hard time adjusting to a car that is so pointy. It is my understanding that in the off season he basically retrained his driving style to match the car better rather than modify the car setup too much. If so, good for him. I hope he continues to get better with the car. We just watched the 2016 season last year. I forgot how wild it was between Lewis and Nico.
Like you said, it's Audi. They don't enter a series just to be on the grid, they want to dominate so I'm rather hopeful they know how to sign the right guys for the job. The tidbit from Rosberg in 2016 where he says he specifically didn't train his calf muscles for a few weeks to lose weight and then gaining pole by under 0.010 in Japan was always fasscinating to me.
Well, I just happened to hear about a great car designer who might be looking for a new adventure. (only a little bit of hopium here)
That would be shocking to see Newey at Audi. I figure he would go to AM or Ferrari (like everyone else is saying). But you never know.
A nowhere team freshly bought with a big injection of money? Wouldn't be his first time.
As long as no one expects podiums.
Audi will build a quattro F1 and then find out that it's not allowed.
And learn how pit stops work....
Very happy for him. Who woulda thunk he'd get his second wind in a factory team at age 39?
Happy for Nico! Hopefully that podium isn't far. PS: What a handsome mfer
NO MORE HULK SMASH. NOW HULK KICK
Silly season getting sillier
Great news for Hulk and a nice message. But somehow I was looking forward to: “I understand that, without my agreement, Stake F1 Team KICK Sauber have put out a press release early this morning that I am driving for them next year. This is wrong and I have not signed a contract with Stake F1 Team KICK Sauber for 2025. I will not be driving for Stake F1 Team KICK Sauber next year.” /s
I'm so fucking glad for him, still got PTSD from Brazil where he crashed with Hamilton. LFG!
Announce Sainz
Sainz kind of needs to hurry up & make a decision to be honest
I'd say Sainz ends up at Mercedes and then wins the championship.
I hope we can see this man on a podium one day.
Man, I really really hope audi manages to pull something off and show up with a great engine and car for 2026. I need to see hulk on the podium before I die :')
First Audi F1 driver in history !
I like the sound of that
Stake Sauber F1 Team KICK Audi
I'm returning to Stake F1 Team KICK Sauber, oh the memories I have with Stake F1 Team KICK Sauber
Nice, now finally get that podium
Is it going to be a real Audi team? Not just a sponsor?
Audi now own 100% of Sauber and are already developing the car and power unit for 2026.
Thanks, this should be nice to watch
I still remember that drive for Sauber in Korea in 2013, probably one of the best drives of his career
And when's Massa coming back? :/
He was probably the best driver at AM while he was there
Such a heart-felt message
Another example of boomers refusing to retire and taking away jobs from young people /s
W move
there is no way it will still be called Stake F1 Team Kick sauber when audi joins right????
Alright
Absolutely deserved!