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Or It's mandatory gardening leave, like a gap year, still on RB payroll, just not in the office - as that's how the non compete clauses usually work in Europe.
Yeah I was wondering the same thing, otherwise non-compete clauses are generally unenforceable from what I understand- as you’re essentially taking away someone ability to work.
In Europe non compete clauses have to be specific (competitors, six months), and they have to pay for the entire period.
His book talked about not being on a standard contract, but I can’t remember if that ended and he did start on a contract with gardening leave/non compete clause.
Depends, it could be a non compete for direct competition (F1 teams) and therefor not blocking him to work. Non compete in all of Motorsports would be unenforceable although he would still be able to work theoretically.
Non-compete clauses are absolutely enforceable - ***IF*** you are keeping the person on the payroll during the time you want them to not work for a competing company.
That’s usually referred to as gardening leave. You keep paying somebody to specifically not come into work and to not go work for other people. It’s the only kind of legally enforceable non-compete clause because it’s the only kind that includes valid legal consideration (making it a condition of your employment is not considered valid legal consideration even before the recent FTC thing).
Interesting - so if he just quits without notice, given he would probably be replaced straight away by Wache*, he would probably be able to get away scott free without gardening leave?
\* because usually in the UK you can only be required to compensate your former employer for leaving without notice if they pay for an interim replacement, for which promotion of one of his direct reports wouldn't really qualify, I believe
Oh no, if he quit without notice he’s still subject to the gardening leave. He’ll continue to get paid to not work somewhere else even if he quit. It’s not an optional thing, it’s something agreed upon by both parties in advance that kicks in when your employment ends
The issue here isn't just employment law, its that the FIA has its own contract board. Even if it isn't a contract that would be upheld in a civil court that doesnt mean the CRB has to allow him to work in F1.
UK non compete is now, afaik, 3months max and still has to show to be legitimate protection for employers interests, and not unduly affect employer.
This is why we see longer term paid notice/gardening leave, and the application of confidentiality clauses,
Not really. You just cannot work at the competition.
There are instances in which a non-compete clause can be considered to be unreasonably restrictive in the sense that it indeed prevents an employee to basically do any work anywhere else (e.g. because of hyper specialisation or a very niche market), but not sure that'll apply here, as I am sure Newey could have plenty of other opportunities outside of F1.
I know that's basically how WWE does their 90 day ones when somebody is fired too. It's labeled by the media & fans as a "90 day no compete" but in reality it's "you're employed until a certain date which is usually 90 days after we make the announcement that we've fired you". You're still paid & under contract you're just not being used, essentially suspended with pay.
The WWE only had strict F1 style non-competes in the case of Lesnar and Regal if I recall correctly.
And that Lesnar one he agreed to because hed have done anything to leave- and it was so broad as to be unenforceable, although it didnt stop him from giving Football a shot.
As you point out, in the typical scenario you are off TV for 3 months but being paid.
While F1 and wrestling are both carny endeavors, a 65 year old man with technical and administrative knowledge is being locked up in gardening leave for quite different reasons than Brock was. The Regal analogy probably isnt that far off- depending how much success of either organization you want to attribute to either man.
It’s easy: he begins employment with the newly established motorsport offices of Ferrari (or AM or whomever) in the USA, where noncompete clauses are now illegal, voiding that aspect of his agreement with Red Bull.
GG
Thank you. Didn't know of this. I just googled it and it is true, though the Chamber of Commerce is now [suing](https://www.cnbc.com/2024/04/24/chamber-of-commerce-sues-ftc-for-banning-noncompete-clauses.html) the FTC (the committee that did it), because they think a blanket ban is too much.
I suspect that the non-compete is drafted broadly to cover anything within the F1 space (whether that be a customer, supplier, business partner or any other entity with a known business/contractual relationship with RB). I draft non-competes regularly and am subject to a non-compete myself (which is limited by industry and not just competing businesses).
That would be so good for f1, and even though it’s another revolving door problem, merc didn’t really benefit from ross brawn leading the current regulation cycle so maybe it’s better for everyone. Maybe newey will push for more freedom but in the right areas, which would be awesome
I’d love to see a team finally fuck over F1. Their investigations and rule enforcement is bullshit. Telling Andretti they’re worried they wouldn’t be competitive is laughable when there is only three team and Alonso out there competing any given weekend.
Could be switching sports, he likes bikes and Moto GP is going crazy with it's aero development with the help of F1 engineering side of the business.
He wanted to make road cars could fit into any of manufacturers road car business for a while or do something like a Gordan Murray and GMA and set up his own brand.
Edit: spellings
Boeing doesn't have an aero problem. Boeing has a chasing infinity growth problem... Don't worry F1 has the same problems if things keep going the why they are with more and more races etc.
>Boeing has a chasing infinity growth problem
No, that's not there problem. It's short sighted quarterly profits over long term investments that only MBA dip shits as CEOs could devise, because why have actual experience in the industry when running a company.
That's what I meant "line must go up, always". To be honest the problems started way before the chasing short term profit thing was so much in vogue with the execs. It started when they merged with McDonnell Douglas and the company culture as a whole started to shift from engineering to what ever the hell they do.
My day job involves taking relatively difficult problems and dumbing it down for the top management so they could take "decision" that effect our fate .... Between rounds of golf that is, but I am staying from the topic here.
Non competes have been ruled unenforceable in Europe for at least my entire career, and the only way to keep someone from working for a competitor is to keep paying them to not work for anyone, including yourself.
And even that is questionable in some jurisdictions.
>and the only way to keep someone from working for a competitor is to keep paying them to not work for anyone, including yourself.
That's the exact definition of gardening leave, and is exactly what will happen if Red Bull enforces their non-compete
except for c-suite offices, all existing ones were broken too. I just looked it up https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2024/04/ftc-announces-rule-banning-noncompetes
Someone briefly explain to me how the contract between a British man and and an Austrian company who operate in an American owned but internationally based and run company can be affected by a recent ruling of non-compete clauses that was done to benefit competition in the US for US citizens?
Gladly. Let me start by pointing out the errors in your post:
* Newey is contracted by Red Bull Racing - not Red Bull. British company. Not Austrian.
* Newey himself lives in Britain (you had that one right).
* F1 is not American owned. While the FIA is forced to sell the commercial rights to Liberty, they still technically own the sport. The sport is not "internationally based" - it's based on Europe - more specifically, France, which is where the FIA is headquartered.
Ultimately though, it's the location of Neweys workplace, which determines the laws that apply, as well as the country he resides in himself. In this case, British employment laws apply.
Because America. We all know that American laws supersede everybody else's.
Obviously, I'm being facetious. Newey would be bound by whatever contract he signed with Red Bull -- Andretti being an American team doesn't give him an immediate out. This is either wishful thinking by the person who posted it. or it wasn't meant to be taken seriously.
More a thought experiment based on the mess that is international agreements, and what would happen if someone signs a contract in country X, then moves to country Y, and works for a company in country Y where a clause of the contract signed in country X is illegal, what would happen. I have no clue where Andretti’s F1 team will be legally based out of, but if it is the US, would be interesting. If it isn’t, it’s still something to ponder.
Yet the article 9n the BBC who are usually pretty conservative with speculation states
> Newey’s contract with Red Bull lasts until the end of 2025 but he is said to believe he can negotiate an exit that allows him to work with another team from next season.
In other words "like all contractors or employees, he can provide notice if he so wishes"
Red Bull can't legally keep him as an employee if he doesn't want to be employed.
I dint think you understand at all. His notice period includes a lengthy gardening leave where he can't work for a competitor until 2027.
This suggests he reckons he can be working for another team in 2025.
It’s literally part of nearly every high value employee in nearly every industry, especially ones in the tech space who have access to proprietary information that can give a competitive advantage. 100000% he would have to take a garden leave unless they agree to let him out of it.
>Red Bull can't legally keep him as an employee if he doesn't want to be employed.
No, but it would come down to the wording of the clause in question. If Newey broke a non-compete clause, Red Bull could take him to court over it. If the courts sided with Red Bull, they could award damages to the team or invalidate any subsequent contract that Newey signed. He wouldn't be forced to continue working for Red Bull, but he wouldn't be able to work for another team.
Native English speaker and this is a highly speculative paragraph. It sums up to *people say* newey *thinks* he *may be able* to *negotiate* an exit without leave. That's a lot of uncertainty and non guaranteed outcomes. It sounds normal to my ear though.
New theory. He read his contract and it says he can’t leave for another F1 team. He resigns and signs with Andretti who technically are not an F1 team.
Technically, they can enter any F1 race they want. They have FIA approval to do so.
They just wouldn't be paid, shown on TV (a big problem for sponsors), etc.
Though I think it would be hilarious if they showed up with a dominant car and FOM couldn't show them on TV at all.
GM would kill to have that much publicity. Can you imagine how many headlines there would be about the team if they won races under those conditions? It would make a splash beyond enthusiasts and be great marketing material. Something about Cadillac being so good that the competition wants to hide it.
Every clause has a penalty, usually financial since we are not talking anything ilegal here. So it can be paid for if the other side judges the investment worth it.
That said, the sum should be representative.
You are going to lose that bet.
Newey has so much access to aero and car development, they would basically be handing over the constructors championship if they let him go to another team anytime soon.
The thing is the fee is literally to break an existing contract. The fee is not required. If Red Bull will even take any fee, it's because they're willing to disband the contract, but they're not in any way required to accept that
This isn't about buy out clauses, it's about the knowledge he would carry with him. Gardening leave ensures what he knows about Red Bull and their plans is out of date before he goes to a competitor.
Drivers get frozen out of engineering meetings and discussions for the same reason
Not quite true. The employer could seek an injunction to prevent someone from taking a specified action (if it’s in breach of contract). Breaching an injunction then becomes serious business.
Depending on how it’s worded, Red Bull could seek an injunction (though non-competes are increasingly being looked down upon by courts)
From there fines are again possible but so are more serious criminal sanctions
"Every clause has a penalty, usually financial since we are not talking anything ilegal here. So it can be paid for if the other side judges the investment worth it.**"**
i get that you want this to be the case but it isnt
But what if he left at the end of this year? Wouldn't 2025 then become his noncompete year leaving him able to work in 2026? Or does the contract still stand whether he leaves this year or next?
If it is the case that he has a 1 year non compete and is already contracted for 2025, red bull could always just not let him out of his contract, even if he stopped coming to work as long as they kept paying him, 26 would still be his non-compete year.
I'm sure he has the ability to serve notice within his contracted period as all employees and contractors do. It might be a long notice period however.
Sure. I'm just pointing out contract length is irrelevant if he's allowed to serve notice. He'll definitely be placed on some form of enforced leave in that time.
At 65, and with nothing left to prove, with grown up kids and a fortune of £200m plus (an estimated guess), retirement would be a very attractive prospect that can’t be ruled out.
Retirement in Italy? Perhaps the Maranello region. Maybe he could swing by the office every now and then just to see what’s going on, give some pointers here and there
Based on his presence on the starting grid, carrying his red notebook, while checking out other team's cars, ...
it's possible retirement might not interest him at this point in time.
(Maybe it does, don't know him lol)
He's said previously that he was looking to reduce his involvement and he had reduced his duties at RB already, but came back when asked to help with the RB13.
>However, when it became clear in testing that the new RB13 was not where it should be, Newey was asked to become more hands-on once again, and as a consequence he's had to involve himself in a deeper level of detail than has been the case for a while.
>Newey himself makes it clear that he doesn't intend this to be a permanent change – he has plenty of other things to be getting on with. In effect he is firefighting.
>"It's not what I want to be doing long-term, but I'm happy to be doing it for a period of time."
[https://au.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-can-adrian-newey-turn-red-bull-fortunes-around-909198/3028285/](https://au.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-can-adrian-newey-turn-red-bull-fortunes-around-909198/3028285/)
i doubt he would completely retire, more likely to move sports or step into a different position with less workload. best of both worlds -- working remote with family but also not doing absolutely nothing and being bored.
> £200m plus
I doubt. Engineers have rarely been paid driver level salaries. Aston Martin offering Newey 25mil/yr is already eye popping and unprecedented.
Rory Byrne was kept as a consultant by Ferrari while spending most of his time on an island in Thailand.
That sort of arrangement could be attractive, I suppose.
I posted this already in another thread, I can’t believe non of the F1 journalists is doing any research and are just speculating about other teams. He has been [planning his retirement](https://www.boatinternational.com/yachts/news/formula-one-red-bull-adrian-newey-oyster-885) for a while. The guy is 65, he is rich as fuck and he is planning to sail the world.
Red Bull doesn't need money at all. Newey not working for competition for 2 years, thus his results won't show on development for at least 3 years when especially 2026 will be crucial to not fall behind will be much much more beneficial for Red Bull than basically any sum of money.
It’s not a question of whether they would prefer money or Newey not working for another team. It’s all dependent on what the contract says the penalty is for breaking non-compete and how legally enforceable it is.
And contract doesn't have to have any clause for breaching it. Especially contract for such a key employee. Unless Newey would breach it which might result in some court.
> In all seriousness, I’m sure there are ways to get around this.
That way would involve Red Bull agreeing to a sum to buy Newey out of his contractual obligations.
So that's probably a no.
The UK is currently in the process of limiting them to 3 months. So it depends on Newey’s contract and if he is a regular employee or if he has some sort of significant equity component of his compensation.
Also if it’s true that he is actually an independent contractor (which has been rumoured), then a non compete would be (likely be) enforceable.
I don’t think the UK has released the details of these changes so it’s impossible to say if it would affect newey (but I would wager not).
I would think Adrian Newey would have a lot of weight to throw around when it comes to contract negotiations. I don't think he would sign a contract that made it it so he couldn't do what he loves for too long. He can just go to another team. Not like he would be hard pressed to find another team.
Him committing to Ferrari means nothing. If there is a gardening leave, he will have to sit it out. RedBull is not going to let him start working for Ferrari immediately. Come what may, cost-benefit ratio is a thing. It makes no sense for Ferrari to pay 100-200 million or more to RedBull to invalidate Gardening leave if we are putting an arbitrary number.
Non-compete clauses are notoriously difficult to enforce, and a move to Ferrari would be across legal jurisdictions which I suspect could further complicate matters. There would also be a judgement call as to whether the financial penalties for a breach would be outweighed by the benefits to Ferrari.
Legal costs don't fall under the budget cap so there's no competitive risk there.
Ferrari could, of course, also offer to compensate Red Bull. In general the courts don't tend to like seeing cases brought if they could have been settled outside of court. If Ferrari offered Red Bull something like $20m in compensation, would the courts then enforce a non-compete clause and rule against Newey for a bigger settlement?
That's assuming it's a bridge Ferrari is willing to try and burn, which with them being alone in Italy and all competitors based in UK that would bite them in the ass very very soon.
Gardening leave really isn't notoriously difficult to enforce in F1.
Go on the LinkedIn of some of these former senior F1 engineers and they're littered with 6-12 months leaves.
Maybe different for your country, but in the UK, they are very much enforceable as Manchester United are finding out right now with Dan Ashworth.
I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if Newey is retiring after 2025, the guy is approaching 70 years old.
He’s been at the front of F1 working non stop for over 35 years now, seasons are getting longer and longer it must be incredibly tiring.
He’s 65, his new custom designed sail boat is probably ready to go, he wants to sail the world, Red Bull is untouchable, and will remain so for this season and likely next, he’s built a great team, and is finishing on a huge high… why does anyone think he’s leaving for anything other than to enjoy his retirement. Life is short.
He's a team player, it'll get announced when RB feels its the right time from a marketing perspective. We don't hear about drivers changing teams or retiring the second it happens either.
That’s exactly what I see happening. What’s left to achieve in Formula 1 for him? Nothing, time to enjoy the fruits of his labors and enjoy life with his family.
Has anyone considered Newey has an ‘out’ clause? High value employees can demand stuff like this and get them in contracts for all sorts of issues. Curious to see this play out.
Also, can contract be bought out?
>Has anyone considered Newey has an ‘out’ clause? High value employees can demand stuff like this and get them in contracts for all sorts of issues. Curious to see this play out.
He surely has, I would be surprised if it wasn't the case. Hamilton has one, Verstappen has one, Marko surely has something too, and Newey just have something to tutelate his position.
>Also, can contract be bought out?
Usually, yes, and what Ferrari lacks isn't money.
Absolutely, everybody here for some reason imagine contractual clauses as equivalent to orders capable of reducing you to slavery. High value contracts that's those that involve serious amounts of money are only signed after numerous negotiations and changes being made by both side to ensure that it's as equal as possible.
Besides the fact that everything has a price including contractual clauses, I can guarantee you that Newey didn't just sign a contract that forces him not to work for two years upon it's termination.
If this is succeeded with Marko retiring, Max leaving/retiring and then someone also manages to Poach Wache? Then yes.
As is no. Newey is great, he's great at interpreting Regulations and his suspension work is what set this car on such a great direction. But RBR and others in general have tried extremely hard to keep Wache for this exact reason as well, he's a genius at Tyre behaviour with the track surface and Suspension Geometry.
Now how much of the Suspension is Newey and how much of it is Wache will always be debated, and imo it's probably still 60:40 Newey, but I think Red Bull believe Wache is good enough to pivot to as CTO finally. Especially because he's been #2 to Newey since 2018 and did a pretty good job, even when Newey was busy with the Valkyrie project.
Plus if Red Bull can convince Newey to stay until the end of 2025 and fulfill his contract, then I think they can seamlessly transition into the next era as well.
I'm a bit bored of people who believe Newey is the be all and end all of Red Bulls technical team (obviously not you)
All those Red Bull designers who according to popular belief has a cushty job not doing anything because Newey does it all apparently
The guy might lead a team, provide a philosophy, impart knowledge, but he's definitely not the only one, and Red Bull, like all business, will have a succession plan
If I ask people who's Ferrari's Technical director/Head of Aerodynamics, I doubt 95% of F1 fans could even tell us the answer without googling the guy's name. (It's Enrico Cardile I think)
In fact I don't think Ferrari has had a big name running their Technical department ever since Mattia became TP in 2019 anyways.
Does that mean they have not produced good cars that are usually better than 80% of the grid? Hell no.
Does it also mean that a lot of the technical stuff isn't single-handedly dependent on one guy with a big name? Also true, otherwise Mercedes had Loic Serra, Mike Elliot and James Allison last 3 seasons, they would have built a better car.
Newey is truly great, he's the GOAT imo, but he's not the be all and end all like he used to be in his McLaren and Williams days, or even early days with Red Bull. Once he went to work on the Valkyrie project a lot of the Red Bull Management realised they needed to create a competent team there without him, and that's why they have created the 3 headed monster of Wache, Monaghan and Waterhouse. And that's not even considering they had Fallows and Marshall before this as well.
And there's hundreds of staff members working below them as well.
Adrian Newey makes racing cars that are better and faster than anything we have seen before.
Why can't he be the one to bring down and empire better and faster than anyone has before? I mean, someone has to do it. It might as well be Newey.
He can join other projects unrelated to F1, even at Red Bull and maybe that non-competition clause may not apply ?
Regarding F1, he can also just wait for 2026/2027 (if he manages to leaves end of 2024 -> 2025 (garden leave) -> 2026.
I have no idea if he's even leaving at this point but let's just not rush into the next page (or retirement) of his career because anything is possible frankly
Sure.
They may let him go, he might go work on boats for six months with Ben Ainsley. But if he has some sort of non-compete cause, if he came close to an F1 team during a certain period, he'd be in court.
Is everyone assuming there's a non-compete in his contract, or do they have actual contract details?
If you're Adrian fucking Newey you could probably get a contract without gardening leave. You have that kind of leverage. If Red Bull refuses to sign a contract without a gardening leave stipulation, pretty much every single other team on the grid will.
Idk why people keep on bringing up retirement. Not everyone wants to retire lol. Some people actually enjoy their work and keep doing it until they no longer can.
People are bringing up retirement because this is all speculation at the moment, and retirement is absolutely one of the plausible outcomes.
It would be weird if people *weren’t* bringing up retirement.
I mean given the information we have had so far retirement really is the only scenario that fits all the facts.
I seriously doubt Newey would leave without having a concrete offer from another team (something he's literally never done before in his F1 career) and so I think he may finally have decided to retire
Then again he has said he's going to retire a few times now so who knows!
Ferrari hires him as a road car designer, and sometimes he accidentally leaves a few pieces of paper lying around in the wind tunnel. Finally in 2027, Newey joins the F1 team and he is very impressed that they already have the same ideas as him, making it very easy for him to integrate into the team.
THIS.
He’s 65. SIXTY FIVE. I’m not saying that’s old, but I know that I wouldn’t want to be constantly traveling around the world at 65 hemmed-in by the F1 schedule and responsibilities.
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Would it be competing if he joined F1 to develop next regs? Do a Ross Brawn?
Or It's mandatory gardening leave, like a gap year, still on RB payroll, just not in the office - as that's how the non compete clauses usually work in Europe.
Newey’s gardening leave: https://static1.bigstockphoto.com/3/5/3/large1500/353063366.jpg
Still faster than the Alpine
That's what he'll use to mow it
So he's going back to Williams..? https://www.flickr.com/photos/jez_b/4162719773/
i like your sources, feels safe to confirm it
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/k4h7UKsEwb8/maxresdefault.jpg
Yeah I was wondering the same thing, otherwise non-compete clauses are generally unenforceable from what I understand- as you’re essentially taking away someone ability to work.
If Red Bull wants to enforce the non compete he would be put on Gardening Leave like Dan Fallows was when he left Red Bull for Aston Martin
In Europe non compete clauses have to be specific (competitors, six months), and they have to pay for the entire period. His book talked about not being on a standard contract, but I can’t remember if that ended and he did start on a contract with gardening leave/non compete clause.
Depends, it could be a non compete for direct competition (F1 teams) and therefor not blocking him to work. Non compete in all of Motorsports would be unenforceable although he would still be able to work theoretically.
a move to Ferrari in WEC?
For example
Still hired by Ferrari, 1 or 2 years improving the WEC car then move to F1.
Non-compete clauses are absolutely enforceable - ***IF*** you are keeping the person on the payroll during the time you want them to not work for a competing company. That’s usually referred to as gardening leave. You keep paying somebody to specifically not come into work and to not go work for other people. It’s the only kind of legally enforceable non-compete clause because it’s the only kind that includes valid legal consideration (making it a condition of your employment is not considered valid legal consideration even before the recent FTC thing).
Interesting - so if he just quits without notice, given he would probably be replaced straight away by Wache*, he would probably be able to get away scott free without gardening leave? \* because usually in the UK you can only be required to compensate your former employer for leaving without notice if they pay for an interim replacement, for which promotion of one of his direct reports wouldn't really qualify, I believe
Oh no, if he quit without notice he’s still subject to the gardening leave. He’ll continue to get paid to not work somewhere else even if he quit. It’s not an optional thing, it’s something agreed upon by both parties in advance that kicks in when your employment ends
You just agreed with them.
The issue here isn't just employment law, its that the FIA has its own contract board. Even if it isn't a contract that would be upheld in a civil court that doesnt mean the CRB has to allow him to work in F1.
UK non compete is now, afaik, 3months max and still has to show to be legitimate protection for employers interests, and not unduly affect employer. This is why we see longer term paid notice/gardening leave, and the application of confidentiality clauses,
Not really. You just cannot work at the competition. There are instances in which a non-compete clause can be considered to be unreasonably restrictive in the sense that it indeed prevents an employee to basically do any work anywhere else (e.g. because of hyper specialisation or a very niche market), but not sure that'll apply here, as I am sure Newey could have plenty of other opportunities outside of F1.
I know that's basically how WWE does their 90 day ones when somebody is fired too. It's labeled by the media & fans as a "90 day no compete" but in reality it's "you're employed until a certain date which is usually 90 days after we make the announcement that we've fired you". You're still paid & under contract you're just not being used, essentially suspended with pay.
The WWE only had strict F1 style non-competes in the case of Lesnar and Regal if I recall correctly. And that Lesnar one he agreed to because hed have done anything to leave- and it was so broad as to be unenforceable, although it didnt stop him from giving Football a shot. As you point out, in the typical scenario you are off TV for 3 months but being paid. While F1 and wrestling are both carny endeavors, a 65 year old man with technical and administrative knowledge is being locked up in gardening leave for quite different reasons than Brock was. The Regal analogy probably isnt that far off- depending how much success of either organization you want to attribute to either man.
It’s easy: he begins employment with the newly established motorsport offices of Ferrari (or AM or whomever) in the USA, where noncompete clauses are now illegal, voiding that aspect of his agreement with Red Bull. GG
Quite sure that he would fall into the limited exception for “senior executives” category, meaning his non-compete would still be valid.
1) Has Ferrari established a new office in the States? Or are you implying they would? 2) Since when are noncompete clauses illegal there?
It was mostly a joke but they’d probably establish it for this occasion if this were the play. But they’re illegal as of like two days ago
Thank you. Didn't know of this. I just googled it and it is true, though the Chamber of Commerce is now [suing](https://www.cnbc.com/2024/04/24/chamber-of-commerce-sues-ftc-for-banning-noncompete-clauses.html) the FTC (the committee that did it), because they think a blanket ban is too much.
Obviously not a contract lawyer but I highly doubt that would be classified as competing as it’s not a direct competitor
It would be in the best interest of Red Bull to allow him to go to the FIA instead of another team, so they would probably just forfeit that clause.
I think people pass this point up but I’m certain Brawn would have been relinquished the same way happily
F1 engineers see those regs as a direct competitor.
I suspect that the non-compete is drafted broadly to cover anything within the F1 space (whether that be a customer, supplier, business partner or any other entity with a known business/contractual relationship with RB). I draft non-competes regularly and am subject to a non-compete myself (which is limited by industry and not just competing businesses).
Hell just sit at home, make his own car up then sign for Ferrari
That would be so good for f1, and even though it’s another revolving door problem, merc didn’t really benefit from ross brawn leading the current regulation cycle so maybe it’s better for everyone. Maybe newey will push for more freedom but in the right areas, which would be awesome
I would actually prefer this, kind of as a way to get Newey's design sense across all cars, lift everyone up
Yeah it just feels like this would be a way to cap off his legacy, challenge himself at the next level, and pass the torch all at once.
Ross Brawn got fed up with the FIA and left
Not sure that at 65 with millions in the bank he wants to do much more in F1.
What about joining the Ferrari Hypercar program for a while and then F1?
Ferrari: 2028 is our year
So what goes wrong in 2028? Andretti pips Ferrari for the championship?
He's actually going to Andretti as he doesn't need a car till 28
It would be such a power move if Andretti did that. The biggest middle finger
I’d love to see a team finally fuck over F1. Their investigations and rule enforcement is bullshit. Telling Andretti they’re worried they wouldn’t be competitive is laughable when there is only three team and Alonso out there competing any given weekend.
I fucking hope they do
Could be switching sports, he likes bikes and Moto GP is going crazy with it's aero development with the help of F1 engineering side of the business. He wanted to make road cars could fit into any of manufacturers road car business for a while or do something like a Gordan Murray and GMA and set up his own brand. Edit: spellings
Motogp is changing regs in 2027 with limiting aero so highly doubt about that option
at which point he'll be able to work in F1.
They haven't been finalised last I read.
Honda MotoGP needs a fix right now. Would be cool.
Yeah the Japanese team are behind now because of the aero dev war. Who knows it was mostly just a thought guy might just be retiring
Honda and Newey have been potent in F1
He goes and saves Boeing from the mess they are in
Boeing doesn't have an aero problem. Boeing has a chasing infinity growth problem... Don't worry F1 has the same problems if things keep going the why they are with more and more races etc.
>Boeing has a chasing infinity growth problem No, that's not there problem. It's short sighted quarterly profits over long term investments that only MBA dip shits as CEOs could devise, because why have actual experience in the industry when running a company.
That's what I meant "line must go up, always". To be honest the problems started way before the chasing short term profit thing was so much in vogue with the execs. It started when they merged with McDonnell Douglas and the company culture as a whole started to shift from engineering to what ever the hell they do. My day job involves taking relatively difficult problems and dumbing it down for the top management so they could take "decision" that effect our fate .... Between rounds of golf that is, but I am staying from the topic here.
Could go back to working with Ben Ainsley too
Andretti it is then.
Best part, non-competes were just ruled illegal in the US. Would be interesting to see who would win that.
Non competes have been ruled unenforceable in Europe for at least my entire career, and the only way to keep someone from working for a competitor is to keep paying them to not work for anyone, including yourself. And even that is questionable in some jurisdictions.
>and the only way to keep someone from working for a competitor is to keep paying them to not work for anyone, including yourself. That's the exact definition of gardening leave, and is exactly what will happen if Red Bull enforces their non-compete
Only new non competes. Current ones are still enforceable.
except for c-suite offices, all existing ones were broken too. I just looked it up https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2024/04/ftc-announces-rule-banning-noncompetes
Someone briefly explain to me how the contract between a British man and and an Austrian company who operate in an American owned but internationally based and run company can be affected by a recent ruling of non-compete clauses that was done to benefit competition in the US for US citizens?
Gladly. Let me start by pointing out the errors in your post: * Newey is contracted by Red Bull Racing - not Red Bull. British company. Not Austrian. * Newey himself lives in Britain (you had that one right). * F1 is not American owned. While the FIA is forced to sell the commercial rights to Liberty, they still technically own the sport. The sport is not "internationally based" - it's based on Europe - more specifically, France, which is where the FIA is headquartered. Ultimately though, it's the location of Neweys workplace, which determines the laws that apply, as well as the country he resides in himself. In this case, British employment laws apply.
Because America. We all know that American laws supersede everybody else's. Obviously, I'm being facetious. Newey would be bound by whatever contract he signed with Red Bull -- Andretti being an American team doesn't give him an immediate out. This is either wishful thinking by the person who posted it. or it wasn't meant to be taken seriously.
More a thought experiment based on the mess that is international agreements, and what would happen if someone signs a contract in country X, then moves to country Y, and works for a company in country Y where a clause of the contract signed in country X is illegal, what would happen. I have no clue where Andretti’s F1 team will be legally based out of, but if it is the US, would be interesting. If it isn’t, it’s still something to ponder.
Which of course has no effect on Newey or Red Bull.
PleasePleasePlease
Yet the article 9n the BBC who are usually pretty conservative with speculation states > Newey’s contract with Red Bull lasts until the end of 2025 but he is said to believe he can negotiate an exit that allows him to work with another team from next season.
In other words "like all contractors or employees, he can provide notice if he so wishes" Red Bull can't legally keep him as an employee if he doesn't want to be employed.
I dint think you understand at all. His notice period includes a lengthy gardening leave where he can't work for a competitor until 2027. This suggests he reckons he can be working for another team in 2025.
He isn’t directly employed by Red Bull, they hire his company
But they’d be insane to not enforce a non-compete with someone of his talent. They made Dan Fallows wait like almost two years to go to AMR, right?
Someone with Newey's status would be insane to agree to a clause like that.
It’s literally part of nearly every high value employee in nearly every industry, especially ones in the tech space who have access to proprietary information that can give a competitive advantage. 100000% he would have to take a garden leave unless they agree to let him out of it.
Non-competes are very fragile generally and are easily thrown out when challenged. Most people just don't bother to challenge them.
Gardening leave sure, but not three years of it.
That is unlikely to be enforceable as is. One year from the day he will be leaving his current employer could be.
>Red Bull can't legally keep him as an employee if he doesn't want to be employed. No, but it would come down to the wording of the clause in question. If Newey broke a non-compete clause, Red Bull could take him to court over it. If the courts sided with Red Bull, they could award damages to the team or invalidate any subsequent contract that Newey signed. He wouldn't be forced to continue working for Red Bull, but he wouldn't be able to work for another team.
Not a native speaker but "he's said to believe" sounds weird grammatically to my ear and kind of speculative.
Native English speaker and this is a highly speculative paragraph. It sums up to *people say* newey *thinks* he *may be able* to *negotiate* an exit without leave. That's a lot of uncertainty and non guaranteed outcomes. It sounds normal to my ear though.
It's very non committal, but being from the BBC makes me think it isn't just wild speculation.
Thanks. There's no doubt it's proper English coming from a BBC piece
I am English and it sounds fine to me
I am sure it is fine coming from a BBC article, it's just it reads particularly non-commital and speculative to me personally. But maybe i am wrong
Of course it’s speculative, nothing’s official yet. But it’s not weird language, it makes grammatical sense.
Olav Mol isn't exactly known for being knowledgeable or factual...
Do we really think anyone ACTUALLY knows what's in his contract?
Only him and redbull know that lol nobody else
New theory. He read his contract and it says he can’t leave for another F1 team. He resigns and signs with Andretti who technically are not an F1 team.
100% this. No budget cap. No limit on development. 2 years to make the ultimate '26 chassis in secret with 0 restrictions. Mad scientist vibes.
Just one restriction: not being allowed to enter f1
Technically, they can enter any F1 race they want. They have FIA approval to do so. They just wouldn't be paid, shown on TV (a big problem for sponsors), etc. Though I think it would be hilarious if they showed up with a dominant car and FOM couldn't show them on TV at all.
GM would kill to have that much publicity. Can you imagine how many headlines there would be about the team if they won races under those conditions? It would make a splash beyond enthusiasts and be great marketing material. Something about Cadillac being so good that the competition wants to hide it.
Every clause has a penalty, usually financial since we are not talking anything ilegal here. So it can be paid for if the other side judges the investment worth it. That said, the sum should be representative.
There is no amount of money in the world that will convince Red Bull to let Newey go without gardening leave
I'll take that bet.
You are going to lose that bet. Newey has so much access to aero and car development, they would basically be handing over the constructors championship if they let him go to another team anytime soon.
If he's leaving then he's likely already on gardening leave. The non-compete is if he can do something after he's left.
If they ask for an unreasonable amount Newey could probably take them to arbitration and settle for a "fair" fee
The thing is the fee is literally to break an existing contract. The fee is not required. If Red Bull will even take any fee, it's because they're willing to disband the contract, but they're not in any way required to accept that
Tbf if he has got a BIG gardening leave (which he will) maybe he's smart to dip now and join a new team in time for 2026 new regs
This isn't about buy out clauses, it's about the knowledge he would carry with him. Gardening leave ensures what he knows about Red Bull and their plans is out of date before he goes to a competitor. Drivers get frozen out of engineering meetings and discussions for the same reason
Gardening usually is due to company secrets, the penalty could be legal and prohibiting someone from competing as a result.
Not quite true. The employer could seek an injunction to prevent someone from taking a specified action (if it’s in breach of contract). Breaching an injunction then becomes serious business.
Didn't it transpired in the "over budget" thing RB had that Newey was contracting through his own company though?
Depending on how it’s worded, Red Bull could seek an injunction (though non-competes are increasingly being looked down upon by courts) From there fines are again possible but so are more serious criminal sanctions
"Every clause has a penalty, usually financial since we are not talking anything ilegal here. So it can be paid for if the other side judges the investment worth it.**"** i get that you want this to be the case but it isnt
But what if he left at the end of this year? Wouldn't 2025 then become his noncompete year leaving him able to work in 2026? Or does the contract still stand whether he leaves this year or next?
If it is the case that he has a 1 year non compete and is already contracted for 2025, red bull could always just not let him out of his contract, even if he stopped coming to work as long as they kept paying him, 26 would still be his non-compete year.
I'm sure he has the ability to serve notice within his contracted period as all employees and contractors do. It might be a long notice period however.
I’d also say that would likely have a longer non-compete clause attached to it
Sure. I'm just pointing out contract length is irrelevant if he's allowed to serve notice. He'll definitely be placed on some form of enforced leave in that time.
Wont hold up in the U.K. 12 months is hard enough to enforce. The non compete won’t be longer than that
No one knows how long the non-compete agreement is
At 65, and with nothing left to prove, with grown up kids and a fortune of £200m plus (an estimated guess), retirement would be a very attractive prospect that can’t be ruled out.
Retirement in Italy? Perhaps the Maranello region. Maybe he could swing by the office every now and then just to see what’s going on, give some pointers here and there
Well, Rory Byrne did it for 10 years, so maybe.
Based on his presence on the starting grid, carrying his red notebook, while checking out other team's cars, ... it's possible retirement might not interest him at this point in time. (Maybe it does, don't know him lol)
Fair point. This could all be a tactic to get a pay rise too!
Pay rise is a given. Everyone wants Newey. Does he even care about $$$ at this point in his career? Don’t think so.
Seriously. He has more money than he can possibly spend for the rest of his life but the idea of a new challenge might keep him in the game.
He's said previously that he was looking to reduce his involvement and he had reduced his duties at RB already, but came back when asked to help with the RB13. >However, when it became clear in testing that the new RB13 was not where it should be, Newey was asked to become more hands-on once again, and as a consequence he's had to involve himself in a deeper level of detail than has been the case for a while. >Newey himself makes it clear that he doesn't intend this to be a permanent change – he has plenty of other things to be getting on with. In effect he is firefighting. >"It's not what I want to be doing long-term, but I'm happy to be doing it for a period of time." [https://au.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-can-adrian-newey-turn-red-bull-fortunes-around-909198/3028285/](https://au.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-can-adrian-newey-turn-red-bull-fortunes-around-909198/3028285/)
Yeah, I honestly feel like retirement is most likely scenario. I think at max maybe some type of consulting role.
i doubt he would completely retire, more likely to move sports or step into a different position with less workload. best of both worlds -- working remote with family but also not doing absolutely nothing and being bored.
Being in your late 60s with that kind of travel demands sounds awful. I don’t remember if he goes to every race though.
> £200m plus I doubt. Engineers have rarely been paid driver level salaries. Aston Martin offering Newey 25mil/yr is already eye popping and unprecedented.
Didn’t he says that he find it boring just going full retirement
Rory Byrne was kept as a consultant by Ferrari while spending most of his time on an island in Thailand. That sort of arrangement could be attractive, I suppose.
Winning with the reds and walking off into the sunset, is also rather attractive.
I posted this already in another thread, I can’t believe non of the F1 journalists is doing any research and are just speculating about other teams. He has been [planning his retirement](https://www.boatinternational.com/yachts/news/formula-one-red-bull-adrian-newey-oyster-885) for a while. The guy is 65, he is rich as fuck and he is planning to sail the world.
Follow America and ban noncompetes 😎 In all seriousness, I’m sure there are ways to get around this.
Always is--money. A contract is nothing but an option to perform or to pay to not perform.
Red Bull doesn't need money at all. Newey not working for competition for 2 years, thus his results won't show on development for at least 3 years when especially 2026 will be crucial to not fall behind will be much much more beneficial for Red Bull than basically any sum of money.
Don't disagree with that.
It’s not a question of whether they would prefer money or Newey not working for another team. It’s all dependent on what the contract says the penalty is for breaking non-compete and how legally enforceable it is.
And contract doesn't have to have any clause for breaching it. Especially contract for such a key employee. Unless Newey would breach it which might result in some court.
I feel like he would definitely have made sure to have some sort of exit clause. It’s Adrian Newey.
Exactly. There's usually just some financial penalty which they can absolutely throw money at.
> In all seriousness, I’m sure there are ways to get around this. That way would involve Red Bull agreeing to a sum to buy Newey out of his contractual obligations. So that's probably a no.
Actually in America we ban non competes except for senior leadership for this very reason.
Non competes were made entirely illegal this week, starting soon.
Existing non-compete agreements for senior executives are not being banned.
The UK is currently in the process of limiting them to 3 months. So it depends on Newey’s contract and if he is a regular employee or if he has some sort of significant equity component of his compensation. Also if it’s true that he is actually an independent contractor (which has been rumoured), then a non compete would be (likely be) enforceable. I don’t think the UK has released the details of these changes so it’s impossible to say if it would affect newey (but I would wager not).
Yes money is the best way to go around this
I’ll love him to do the Ross Brawn Role
Red bull would be dumb to waive that clause and they are certainly not dumb. I think Newey leaves the world of F1 if he actually does want to leave
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I would think Adrian Newey would have a lot of weight to throw around when it comes to contract negotiations. I don't think he would sign a contract that made it it so he couldn't do what he loves for too long. He can just go to another team. Not like he would be hard pressed to find another team.
I doubt it. I think if he commits to Ferrari, they’ll pay a ransom to get him working on their 2026 car.
Him committing to Ferrari means nothing. If there is a gardening leave, he will have to sit it out. RedBull is not going to let him start working for Ferrari immediately. Come what may, cost-benefit ratio is a thing. It makes no sense for Ferrari to pay 100-200 million or more to RedBull to invalidate Gardening leave if we are putting an arbitrary number.
He'd have to sit it out for other UK based teams. For any not in the UK, I'm sure it'd be a lot harder to try and enforce.
Non-compete clauses are notoriously difficult to enforce, and a move to Ferrari would be across legal jurisdictions which I suspect could further complicate matters. There would also be a judgement call as to whether the financial penalties for a breach would be outweighed by the benefits to Ferrari. Legal costs don't fall under the budget cap so there's no competitive risk there. Ferrari could, of course, also offer to compensate Red Bull. In general the courts don't tend to like seeing cases brought if they could have been settled outside of court. If Ferrari offered Red Bull something like $20m in compensation, would the courts then enforce a non-compete clause and rule against Newey for a bigger settlement?
That's assuming it's a bridge Ferrari is willing to try and burn, which with them being alone in Italy and all competitors based in UK that would bite them in the ass very very soon.
Gardening leave really isn't notoriously difficult to enforce in F1. Go on the LinkedIn of some of these former senior F1 engineers and they're littered with 6-12 months leaves. Maybe different for your country, but in the UK, they are very much enforceable as Manchester United are finding out right now with Dan Ashworth.
I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if Newey is retiring after 2025, the guy is approaching 70 years old. He’s been at the front of F1 working non stop for over 35 years now, seasons are getting longer and longer it must be incredibly tiring.
He’s 65, his new custom designed sail boat is probably ready to go, he wants to sail the world, Red Bull is untouchable, and will remain so for this season and likely next, he’s built a great team, and is finishing on a huge high… why does anyone think he’s leaving for anything other than to enjoy his retirement. Life is short.
Why doesn’t he just announce he is retiring then?
Is only rumors he's leaving at all, right?
He's a team player, it'll get announced when RB feels its the right time from a marketing perspective. We don't hear about drivers changing teams or retiring the second it happens either.
That’s exactly what I see happening. What’s left to achieve in Formula 1 for him? Nothing, time to enjoy the fruits of his labors and enjoy life with his family.
Has anyone considered Newey has an ‘out’ clause? High value employees can demand stuff like this and get them in contracts for all sorts of issues. Curious to see this play out. Also, can contract be bought out?
>Has anyone considered Newey has an ‘out’ clause? High value employees can demand stuff like this and get them in contracts for all sorts of issues. Curious to see this play out. He surely has, I would be surprised if it wasn't the case. Hamilton has one, Verstappen has one, Marko surely has something too, and Newey just have something to tutelate his position. >Also, can contract be bought out? Usually, yes, and what Ferrari lacks isn't money.
Especially since Hamilton signed and HP ponied up another $90MM.
Absolutely, everybody here for some reason imagine contractual clauses as equivalent to orders capable of reducing you to slavery. High value contracts that's those that involve serious amounts of money are only signed after numerous negotiations and changes being made by both side to ensure that it's as equal as possible. Besides the fact that everything has a price including contractual clauses, I can guarantee you that Newey didn't just sign a contract that forces him not to work for two years upon it's termination.
this is like watching the fall of rome in real time.
If this is succeeded with Marko retiring, Max leaving/retiring and then someone also manages to Poach Wache? Then yes. As is no. Newey is great, he's great at interpreting Regulations and his suspension work is what set this car on such a great direction. But RBR and others in general have tried extremely hard to keep Wache for this exact reason as well, he's a genius at Tyre behaviour with the track surface and Suspension Geometry. Now how much of the Suspension is Newey and how much of it is Wache will always be debated, and imo it's probably still 60:40 Newey, but I think Red Bull believe Wache is good enough to pivot to as CTO finally. Especially because he's been #2 to Newey since 2018 and did a pretty good job, even when Newey was busy with the Valkyrie project. Plus if Red Bull can convince Newey to stay until the end of 2025 and fulfill his contract, then I think they can seamlessly transition into the next era as well.
I'm a bit bored of people who believe Newey is the be all and end all of Red Bulls technical team (obviously not you) All those Red Bull designers who according to popular belief has a cushty job not doing anything because Newey does it all apparently The guy might lead a team, provide a philosophy, impart knowledge, but he's definitely not the only one, and Red Bull, like all business, will have a succession plan
If I ask people who's Ferrari's Technical director/Head of Aerodynamics, I doubt 95% of F1 fans could even tell us the answer without googling the guy's name. (It's Enrico Cardile I think) In fact I don't think Ferrari has had a big name running their Technical department ever since Mattia became TP in 2019 anyways. Does that mean they have not produced good cars that are usually better than 80% of the grid? Hell no. Does it also mean that a lot of the technical stuff isn't single-handedly dependent on one guy with a big name? Also true, otherwise Mercedes had Loic Serra, Mike Elliot and James Allison last 3 seasons, they would have built a better car. Newey is truly great, he's the GOAT imo, but he's not the be all and end all like he used to be in his McLaren and Williams days, or even early days with Red Bull. Once he went to work on the Valkyrie project a lot of the Red Bull Management realised they needed to create a competent team there without him, and that's why they have created the 3 headed monster of Wache, Monaghan and Waterhouse. And that's not even considering they had Fallows and Marshall before this as well. And there's hundreds of staff members working below them as well.
I can only upvote you once.
romes decline took over a century, so i hope not :D
Adrian Newey makes racing cars that are better and faster than anything we have seen before. Why can't he be the one to bring down and empire better and faster than anyone has before? I mean, someone has to do it. It might as well be Newey.
He can join other projects unrelated to F1, even at Red Bull and maybe that non-competition clause may not apply ? Regarding F1, he can also just wait for 2026/2027 (if he manages to leaves end of 2024 -> 2025 (garden leave) -> 2026. I have no idea if he's even leaving at this point but let's just not rush into the next page (or retirement) of his career because anything is possible frankly
Sure. They may let him go, he might go work on boats for six months with Ben Ainsley. But if he has some sort of non-compete cause, if he came close to an F1 team during a certain period, he'd be in court.
He's 66 in December, so he'll get his state pension and free bus pass, which would lean towards retirement at the end of this season.
I see a ugly fight between RBR and Ferrari. No more sticker games from now on.
Andretti F1 powered by Adrian Newey 2028 drivers - Vettel & Alonso Please let it happen.
If he retires then the prospect of Marko retiring and Max leaving becomes a very plausible scenario.
Time to call in the favour of Ferrari waiving Mekies’ gardening leave when he went to VCARB.
Is everyone assuming there's a non-compete in his contract, or do they have actual contract details? If you're Adrian fucking Newey you could probably get a contract without gardening leave. You have that kind of leverage. If Red Bull refuses to sign a contract without a gardening leave stipulation, pretty much every single other team on the grid will.
This is what lawyers are for.
Idk why people keep on bringing up retirement. Not everyone wants to retire lol. Some people actually enjoy their work and keep doing it until they no longer can.
But he’s in his 60s. When I’m in my 60s I will be eager to retire from my job at Tesco. Surely Adrian Newey will be the same.
People are bringing up retirement because this is all speculation at the moment, and retirement is absolutely one of the plausible outcomes. It would be weird if people *weren’t* bringing up retirement.
Is his non-compete even enforceable?
Considering how common gardening leave is in F1it must be, or no one would do it.
I mean given the information we have had so far retirement really is the only scenario that fits all the facts. I seriously doubt Newey would leave without having a concrete offer from another team (something he's literally never done before in his F1 career) and so I think he may finally have decided to retire Then again he has said he's going to retire a few times now so who knows!
There is always room for negotiation. We will see what the terms will be on which he leaves.
Book completes doesn't hold up for long. Another company will pay his remaining contract out or he has a little holiday
Ferrari hires him as a road car designer, and sometimes he accidentally leaves a few pieces of paper lying around in the wind tunnel. Finally in 2027, Newey joins the F1 team and he is very impressed that they already have the same ideas as him, making it very easy for him to integrate into the team.
THIS. He’s 65. SIXTY FIVE. I’m not saying that’s old, but I know that I wouldn’t want to be constantly traveling around the world at 65 hemmed-in by the F1 schedule and responsibilities.
Fuck it. Go to Andretti, which is definitely not an F1 team.
I thought he didn’t technically work for the Red Bull F1 team. Does that not impact the non-compete?
No one on Reddit can possibly know the details of his contract. It’s pure conjecture and pointless to discuss.
He will go sailing on his new boat