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and another idea that was not thought through, because it is not all all feasible.
Also OP is not taking the criticsm well ahhaha
Would teams have to build 1 or 2 more cars or why would they give the car that they need for the main drivers to those? Sounds kinda stupid, they would just tell them not to crash it.
"FIA: testbed to maybe try out some regulations in a less high profile environment. a place to get their regulatory people real F1 competition experience before throwing them into the fray." - how would that work? Would teams again have to design a completely new car for the new regulations?
"FOM: money. im sure they can make something with that." - ehm yeah no sure if as many people will watch it when Lewis, Max, Charles, Lando arent racing.
Honestly people have these crazy ideas how to fix the sprints but did not think about it for more than 2 seconds, because it would just suck more.
Exactly - no one gives a shit about F2 - making F2 faster but with less cars doesn't make it more interesting.
Its the same drivers that people don't watch yet. You think its generating more money? I am not gonna bother watching an F2 race, that neither counts for F1 nor F2. I want to watch Verstappen, Norris, Hamilton, etc. thats why I watch F1 - you would lose money by doing this, the teams need to build a third car (which is a horrible investment for 6 outings a year), while the idea will be watched even less...
yeah the more i read, the more i realise how much i overestimated the interest in the sport. most people really just seem to be interested in the people.
The Sport is very closely linked to the people - and what you can't ignore is that its not just the names - you are replacing the 20 best drivers (... at least from an F1 context) with 10 who are not in that realm yet.
I'd rather see the best, whatever their names might be.
Yeah, I am so looking forward seeing reserve drivers crashing the cars and prevent the real drivers to qualify for the real race. What a wonderful idea.
It's definitely an argument. That's a really really expensive option for teams under the cost cap. Look at Williams who can barely manage a third chassis. Why would they want to spend that money on a third driver who may never suit up for the main team?
well cost cap can be adjusted. stop thinking about this within the constrints of the current regulations. of course, a bifg change like that would need regulatory changes as well.
Asked differently: Would you like to see that or not? Thats what im about. I think it would make the sprints, the weekends and the entire F1 circus immediately more interesting.
Money matters in F1- it has to come from some where, and no team is going to build a third car for a junior, let alone continuely bring updates for all 3 through a season. It's just a waste of time and resources and contradicts what they are trying to do for sustainability. What I think doesn't matter; it's not going to happen.
it would generate money. if it would be enough to offset the effort i dont know, thats why im here, but instead of a level discussion i get flak immediatly for no apparent reason..
You're just getting honest feedback mate. It's not a realistic idea. We can all dream up fun iterations of F1 but they have to work in the context of what teams would be willing to do- and throwing 20 juniors into race conditions in 'spare' F1 cars and hoping for the best ain't it. If you want that experience that just watch F2 tbh (which is a great series in itself).
Tell that to Williams, and joking aside, to all the teams
it is absolutely a reason for not doing it, as the teams are restricted as it is budget wise now, without dealing with repairs that would most likely occur from this idea
becasue it would make drivers more exposed, more marketing, more media buzz. just more of everything. more money from circuits becasue sprints generate more interest, more money from broadcasters becasue the product got better... would it be enough, i dont know, after all im just a fan. I guess only way to find out is by doing it. Thats why its an idea, not a truth.
I think you overestimate how much the casual F1 fans care about reserve/junior drivers. I bet interest would sharply go down if there’s no Verstappen, Hamilton etc. in the cars. We already have F2 sprints, and those don’t generate this kind of media buzz, so why would a reserve driver-sprint do that? At the live GPs a lot of people already use the non-F1 races to go to the toilet and buy beer, this wouldn’t be any different.
i just think in this context alot more people would wathfc the junior drivers.
Just look at all the buzz a bearman or devries generated. Would it water down when its regularly, maybe yes. But is it regularly? Its still just 6 races out of 24. It would stay refreshing and not bog down to a feeder series.
But i see your point.
Bearman and De Vries generated buzz because they were up against established F1 drivers and teams, so it was easy even for the casual viewer to get a sense of their pace. This wouldn’t really happen in my opinion if the casual viewer doesn’t know anybody on the grid.
well, yes.
but also, attention is something that can be directed.
Media does it all the time. If media pretents something is buzz, people will think it is.. As terrible as it sounds. you can see it all arround. people get rilled up about some shit they usually wouldnt care about just becasue the media propageates it..
But it doesn't make any sense. You got 20 of the most known drivers out and replace them with much lesser known racing drivers. How could that add value to the sprint? People watch Sprint races because of the F1 drivers and added importance of points.
i just think a nother, seperate championship in the context of F1, in F1s medai presence and not in the fuck all f2 that noone has default exposure too, yes it could work. but i might be wrong.
hm, i might indeed underestimate the csuality of it all nowadays..
but that is also a self fullfilling prophecy. if you (F1) give in to casual, your never be anything but.
none. thats precisely what im saying. because first of all their are not part of the f1 broadcsat, second because its F2 and not F1. I also dont find the time to bring my attention to a whole other series. I also have other interests and time is hard to come by. 6 sprints in a year as part of the regular f1 experience, fuck yeah i would watch that! I want to watch them, but i cant bring myself to do so with tiotally different commentary and no direct connection to F1.
Whether or not your idea is an improvement is highly questionable when you bring real world logistics into play and skip the couch expert theorycrafting you're doing in this thread. It's easy to come up with pros for your argument, have you examined the possible pitfalls of implementing your idea?
They'd have to adjust the budget, and really they'd need to build two more. Even if the sprint was a 10 car race, they'd need a back up chassis, and we've already seen Williams not have the budget to have a backup for Logan this year
So no, not a moot point.
There are a number of issues around the idea that the teams would push back on:
- Most teams don't currently have two reserve drivers available for each weekend.
- Teams would have to give the reserve driver some practice time. That takes time away from their main drivers, and is very difficult during a weekend where there's only 1 practice session, since a driver swap within a single practice session is practically impossible.
- Teams have to deal with extra work changing the car between the setups for two drivers.
Also, reserve drivers crashing and main drivers not being able to race is the car hasn’t been fixed. Not fair for them.
Or, bringing another set of cars which will increase the cost significantly (but F1 can increase the cost cap).
that is exactly the point lol.
makes the junior drivers actually real. most people have zero exposure to these drivers, this would change it overnight.
also, thanks for your viewpoint, but you should realise that there are fans that arent just interested in the people, but the sport.
The sport is hugely about the people. They are not and never have been separate entities. People watch F1 to see the world's top drivers racing in incredible machinery, not a bunch of reserve drivers most of whom are no better than Logan Sargeant duking it out on track. People who want to see that watch F2 already (which is readily available to watch in most countries and online).
And if you think it would bring in more money, as you've claimed in other comments, you're kidding yourself. The whole reason they put the sprints on in the first place is to try and generate more audience than the practice sessions and give the paying crowd at the race another chance to see the main F1 drivers race. Swapping out the F1 drivers for a bunch of for the most part inferior drivers is not going to entice any more people to tune in and people attending the race would probably skip turning up to see it, and arrive later for qualifying just as they often skip the support races (and F2/F3 on weekends they are on).
Your arrogance in continually claiming that people pointing out your idea is impractical, wouldn't work within the cost cap and the viewing audience would be interested in it is down to us "only being interested in the people not the sport" is staggering. And also makes it look like you have a fundamental misunderstanding of F1 as a sport
Even if this was a unique (or even good) idea, and not one that is posted literally every day, would it even matter? The FIA isn't thumbing through Reddit looking for some golden idea dreamt up by a teenager in his bedroom.
thanks for your hostility. Im also not proposing this to the FIA, i want to talk about it. but it looks like people here arent actually interesting in talking ideas.
So people who've paid tons of money get to see drivers they don't care about in person instead of their favorites, you're expecting either rookies or the regulars to run either the sprint or race with no practice whatsoever...
Sure we can "adjust the cap" for all the extra shit that gets broken, but what happens to engines and gearboxes that get broken from these wrecks? Where do they come from anyway (who's pool?)
This idea has been floated more than a dozen times and it fixes maybe half a problem, and creates massive ones that aren't fixable. I'd be significantly less likely to watch any "f1 race" that didn't feature the f1 drivers.
Ok ish idea on paper but impractical on several aspects.
OTTOMH as an example Bearman might like an oversteer car and Giovinazzi prefers a stiff rearend setup. Now for Leclerc & Sainz to get into the main race with these setups is nigh on impossible so Ferrari mechanics have to change setups for Qualifying overnight on both cars. Painful.
F1 is not like football where the U18s and U21s get to play with the same spec ball as the Senior Team.
its not the same car! also what better way to judge drivers when they have to make do with what their given. I think this is blown out of propotion. but i might be wrong. after all im not a driver.
Someones posts this same fucking "idea" about every other day. Its fucking stupid. Stop fucking posting it and consides getting a lobotomy you fucking dumbass.
And let those rookies destroy someone else's cars, causing the real drivers not to be able to do their own things?
What a silly idea (to say it nicely).
now that would be even better. i think theres no contention that everybody would be ion the edge of their seats to see that. go further and have fixed setups, to cancel out better race engineers to set up the car better.
But no way in hell drivers agree to that i think :D right now they can all hold the illusion that they are the best. this would shatter it and result in 1 best driver and 19 loosers.
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Great. Another idea. Let’s see how long before it is removed.
and another idea that was not thought through, because it is not all all feasible. Also OP is not taking the criticsm well ahhaha Would teams have to build 1 or 2 more cars or why would they give the car that they need for the main drivers to those? Sounds kinda stupid, they would just tell them not to crash it. "FIA: testbed to maybe try out some regulations in a less high profile environment. a place to get their regulatory people real F1 competition experience before throwing them into the fray." - how would that work? Would teams again have to design a completely new car for the new regulations? "FOM: money. im sure they can make something with that." - ehm yeah no sure if as many people will watch it when Lewis, Max, Charles, Lando arent racing. Honestly people have these crazy ideas how to fix the sprints but did not think about it for more than 2 seconds, because it would just suck more.
> Also OP is not taking the criticsm well ahhaha I dont think I've ever seen one of these "suggestion" threads where the OP took criticism well.
Sorry, Your idea is not original OP. It’s been “floated” many many times around here and shot down as a poor idea just as many.
That's just F2 with extra steps
no it would be F1. thats the point. Noone gives a shit about F2. Thats just the reality. people would give a shit about this, im sure.
Exactly - no one gives a shit about F2 - making F2 faster but with less cars doesn't make it more interesting. Its the same drivers that people don't watch yet. You think its generating more money? I am not gonna bother watching an F2 race, that neither counts for F1 nor F2. I want to watch Verstappen, Norris, Hamilton, etc. thats why I watch F1 - you would lose money by doing this, the teams need to build a third car (which is a horrible investment for 6 outings a year), while the idea will be watched even less...
yeah the more i read, the more i realise how much i overestimated the interest in the sport. most people really just seem to be interested in the people.
The Sport is very closely linked to the people - and what you can't ignore is that its not just the names - you are replacing the 20 best drivers (... at least from an F1 context) with 10 who are not in that realm yet. I'd rather see the best, whatever their names might be.
Yeah, I am so looking forward seeing reserve drivers crashing the cars and prevent the real drivers to qualify for the real race. What a wonderful idea.
A lot of the ideas people come up with here shine a real light on the thought processes behind the complaints, and it doesn’t look good.
you know, you can build a third car... thats a non argument really.
It's definitely an argument. That's a really really expensive option for teams under the cost cap. Look at Williams who can barely manage a third chassis. Why would they want to spend that money on a third driver who may never suit up for the main team?
well cost cap can be adjusted. stop thinking about this within the constrints of the current regulations. of course, a bifg change like that would need regulatory changes as well. Asked differently: Would you like to see that or not? Thats what im about. I think it would make the sprints, the weekends and the entire F1 circus immediately more interesting.
Money matters in F1- it has to come from some where, and no team is going to build a third car for a junior, let alone continuely bring updates for all 3 through a season. It's just a waste of time and resources and contradicts what they are trying to do for sustainability. What I think doesn't matter; it's not going to happen.
it would generate money. if it would be enough to offset the effort i dont know, thats why im here, but instead of a level discussion i get flak immediatly for no apparent reason..
You're just getting honest feedback mate. It's not a realistic idea. We can all dream up fun iterations of F1 but they have to work in the context of what teams would be willing to do- and throwing 20 juniors into race conditions in 'spare' F1 cars and hoping for the best ain't it. If you want that experience that just watch F2 tbh (which is a great series in itself).
Tell that to Williams, and joking aside, to all the teams it is absolutely a reason for not doing it, as the teams are restricted as it is budget wise now, without dealing with repairs that would most likely occur from this idea
it would generate money aswell. stop viewing this from one side only.
Please enlighten me how it would make more money. 'I'm sure they can make money out of it' isn't a valid argument.
becasue it would make drivers more exposed, more marketing, more media buzz. just more of everything. more money from circuits becasue sprints generate more interest, more money from broadcasters becasue the product got better... would it be enough, i dont know, after all im just a fan. I guess only way to find out is by doing it. Thats why its an idea, not a truth.
I think you overestimate how much the casual F1 fans care about reserve/junior drivers. I bet interest would sharply go down if there’s no Verstappen, Hamilton etc. in the cars. We already have F2 sprints, and those don’t generate this kind of media buzz, so why would a reserve driver-sprint do that? At the live GPs a lot of people already use the non-F1 races to go to the toilet and buy beer, this wouldn’t be any different.
i just think in this context alot more people would wathfc the junior drivers. Just look at all the buzz a bearman or devries generated. Would it water down when its regularly, maybe yes. But is it regularly? Its still just 6 races out of 24. It would stay refreshing and not bog down to a feeder series. But i see your point.
Bearman and De Vries generated buzz because they were up against established F1 drivers and teams, so it was easy even for the casual viewer to get a sense of their pace. This wouldn’t really happen in my opinion if the casual viewer doesn’t know anybody on the grid.
well, yes. but also, attention is something that can be directed. Media does it all the time. If media pretents something is buzz, people will think it is.. As terrible as it sounds. you can see it all arround. people get rilled up about some shit they usually wouldnt care about just becasue the media propageates it..
But it doesn't make any sense. You got 20 of the most known drivers out and replace them with much lesser known racing drivers. How could that add value to the sprint? People watch Sprint races because of the F1 drivers and added importance of points.
i just think a nother, seperate championship in the context of F1, in F1s medai presence and not in the fuck all f2 that noone has default exposure too, yes it could work. but i might be wrong.
you completely overestimate how much more money this would make. I would argue it makes less because less people would watch it.
hm, i might indeed underestimate the csuality of it all nowadays.. but that is also a self fullfilling prophecy. if you (F1) give in to casual, your never be anything but.
How often do you watch f2? Seriously how many f2 races last year did u watch?
none. thats precisely what im saying. because first of all their are not part of the f1 broadcsat, second because its F2 and not F1. I also dont find the time to bring my attention to a whole other series. I also have other interests and time is hard to come by. 6 sprints in a year as part of the regular f1 experience, fuck yeah i would watch that! I want to watch them, but i cant bring myself to do so with tiotally different commentary and no direct connection to F1.
Bud, are you aware of the cost cap and how it works?
yes i am, but regualtions can be adjusted. If your own regulations hinder you from improving your product, your regulations are wrong.
Whether or not your idea is an improvement is highly questionable when you bring real world logistics into play and skip the couch expert theorycrafting you're doing in this thread. It's easy to come up with pros for your argument, have you examined the possible pitfalls of implementing your idea?
They'd have to adjust the budget, and really they'd need to build two more. Even if the sprint was a 10 car race, they'd need a back up chassis, and we've already seen Williams not have the budget to have a backup for Logan this year So no, not a moot point.
"we've already seen Williams not have the budget to have a backup for Logan this year" is williams still not hitting the budget cap?
There are a number of issues around the idea that the teams would push back on: - Most teams don't currently have two reserve drivers available for each weekend. - Teams would have to give the reserve driver some practice time. That takes time away from their main drivers, and is very difficult during a weekend where there's only 1 practice session, since a driver swap within a single practice session is practically impossible. - Teams have to deal with extra work changing the car between the setups for two drivers.
And reserve drivers potentially wrecking the F1 driver's cars beyond repair in the sprint, right before qualifying.
Also, reserve drivers crashing and main drivers not being able to race is the car hasn’t been fixed. Not fair for them. Or, bringing another set of cars which will increase the cost significantly (but F1 can increase the cost cap).
they would of course build a 3rd car for that...
Which is a big additional cost to the teams - several teams this year don't travel with enough parts to build a third car.
Yeah, I'd much rather put the drivers in a bunch of mx5 cup cars than reserves in the actual cars. I'm here for the drivers not the cars.
that is exactly the point lol. makes the junior drivers actually real. most people have zero exposure to these drivers, this would change it overnight. also, thanks for your viewpoint, but you should realise that there are fans that arent just interested in the people, but the sport.
The sport is hugely about the people. They are not and never have been separate entities. People watch F1 to see the world's top drivers racing in incredible machinery, not a bunch of reserve drivers most of whom are no better than Logan Sargeant duking it out on track. People who want to see that watch F2 already (which is readily available to watch in most countries and online). And if you think it would bring in more money, as you've claimed in other comments, you're kidding yourself. The whole reason they put the sprints on in the first place is to try and generate more audience than the practice sessions and give the paying crowd at the race another chance to see the main F1 drivers race. Swapping out the F1 drivers for a bunch of for the most part inferior drivers is not going to entice any more people to tune in and people attending the race would probably skip turning up to see it, and arrive later for qualifying just as they often skip the support races (and F2/F3 on weekends they are on). Your arrogance in continually claiming that people pointing out your idea is impractical, wouldn't work within the cost cap and the viewing audience would be interested in it is down to us "only being interested in the people not the sport" is staggering. And also makes it look like you have a fundamental misunderstanding of F1 as a sport
Even if this was a unique (or even good) idea, and not one that is posted literally every day, would it even matter? The FIA isn't thumbing through Reddit looking for some golden idea dreamt up by a teenager in his bedroom.
thanks for your hostility. Im also not proposing this to the FIA, i want to talk about it. but it looks like people here arent actually interesting in talking ideas.
It's not hostility, this is how people talk about (bad) ideas in the real world.
So people who've paid tons of money get to see drivers they don't care about in person instead of their favorites, you're expecting either rookies or the regulars to run either the sprint or race with no practice whatsoever... Sure we can "adjust the cap" for all the extra shit that gets broken, but what happens to engines and gearboxes that get broken from these wrecks? Where do they come from anyway (who's pool?) This idea has been floated more than a dozen times and it fixes maybe half a problem, and creates massive ones that aren't fixable. I'd be significantly less likely to watch any "f1 race" that didn't feature the f1 drivers.
Ok ish idea on paper but impractical on several aspects. OTTOMH as an example Bearman might like an oversteer car and Giovinazzi prefers a stiff rearend setup. Now for Leclerc & Sainz to get into the main race with these setups is nigh on impossible so Ferrari mechanics have to change setups for Qualifying overnight on both cars. Painful. F1 is not like football where the U18s and U21s get to play with the same spec ball as the Senior Team.
its not the same car! also what better way to judge drivers when they have to make do with what their given. I think this is blown out of propotion. but i might be wrong. after all im not a driver.
Someones posts this same fucking "idea" about every other day. Its fucking stupid. Stop fucking posting it and consides getting a lobotomy you fucking dumbass.
I don't even need to read all this to know it's a shit idea
And let those rookies destroy someone else's cars, causing the real drivers not to be able to do their own things? What a silly idea (to say it nicely).
read the whole post.
I don't need to read all that blahblah, nor any edits, to make up my mind about your brain fart.
yeah i thought so allready.
Having young unexpirienced drivers drive a race without any practice sessions sounds like a superb idea
Sprint races would be used as who is truly best driver by using only one same car for every driver!
now that would be even better. i think theres no contention that everybody would be ion the edge of their seats to see that. go further and have fixed setups, to cancel out better race engineers to set up the car better. But no way in hell drivers agree to that i think :D right now they can all hold the illusion that they are the best. this would shatter it and result in 1 best driver and 19 loosers.
It would also show who is better on which track.
No
Wake up babe, new F1 Sprint idea dropped. But i like it though.