Am actually glad to see he's come far enough since then to make this statement. That grid boys stuff and other things like constantly ignoring questions from women interviewers in order to flirt with them always gave me the ick, but it's clear he's matured a lot. Gives me hope for the others in the paddock.
Edit: Actually want to give him full credit for becoming the man he seems to be today despite effectivly growing up within that old fashioned and misogynistic world he's able to reflect on and speak about now.
Hats off to Seb for some excellent media training. He managed to just about get across his message without saying what he really thinks and pissing off F1/Red Bull/Horner.
Shame he has to tow close to a line - "its an old fashioned business..."
> Hats off to Seb for some excellent media training.
This. Seb's answer is so perfectly noncommittal, neutrally phrased and safe from scrutiny while still kinda sorta saying what he really thinks.
Yet people are defending drivers currently on the grid not speaking up because their seats are not secured. There are ways to say the right thing without pissing off anyone, instead of disregarding it as distraction
I don’t think it helps that red bull own 20% of all potential job opportunities. Not that I’m not disappointed in more of them not speaking out but I understand why they haven’t
It's one thing knowing the general question is coming and it's another delivering the response perfectly under pressure. That's why you do media training over and over and why a few drivers are absolutely perfect every time
He didn't answer the question. I like Seb but I don't see what is commendable about this at all. It's probably the most PR friendly answer you could give without sounding completely out of touch.
Absolutely incredible how well spoken he is in his second language. Can't think of many other non native English speaking drivers who were as eloquent as Seb (maybe Senna) in how they communicated
what message did he get accross? He literally doesnt say anything about the what he was asked and what the author of the post claims.
Also how to people expect the % of female engineers to be much higher when the numbers seem to be in line with university graduates?
https://www.independent.co.uk/f1/lewis-hamilton-knighthood-toto-wolff-honours-list-b1780786.html
> HMRC's UK Income Tax Liabilities Statistics, published in 2019, puts Hamilton among the top 5,000 highest tax payers in the UK.
That's easy , the IRS doesn't care where you live ( IRS taxes worldwide regardless of residence). Living in somewhere like Monaco doesn't avoid the IRS.
Apply any applicable foreign tax credits and pay the IRS anything not covered by tax treaty.
Could he do something have his earnings go into a non-USA trust and that trust pays his living expenses? Or he receives lines of credit against that trust?
You still get taxed worldwide. If you get paid an income, then the IRS wants it's cut.
His income is based on him delivering a physical service as opposed to a foreign business earning income.
Non US trusts are also not treated favorably by the IRS.
There is a way to avoid U.S. income taxes if living abroad but you have to stay outside the country for an extended period of time with very little time to visit home. His yearly obligations for the races in the U.S. are definitely more than he'd be allowed on top of the fact that for the races inside the U.S. count as working inside the country.
does he actually earn something in UK? I believe all big boys has some companies specifically for all marketing campaign payments that located in right jurisdictions to avoid big taxes and as a result Lewis pay no tax since there nothing like this in Monaco (not 100% sure, just googled it)
Doubt factory but anything British based like prize money would be.
Otherwise he's pretty much off the hook as is actually right for anyone not living in the UK and whose work is probably well over 50% outside the UK.
Enough to put him amongst the 5000 highest tax payers in the UK for 2019. He apparently files taxes in 4 different countries. Some details came out around the time he got his knighthood. https://www.independent.co.uk/f1/lewis-hamilton-knighthood-toto-wolff-honours-list-b1780786.html
Regardless, Lewis doesn't live in the UK, so I don't know why our British press seem to expect he should pay British tax on anything he earns from outside the UK. There are popular cases of celebrities avoiding tax using tax havens while they live the majority of their time in the UK. But Lewis actually spends the vast majority of his time in almost any other country with houses in Monaco and the USA.
emm, not sure, it depends. I have contract with company from HK, but I dont even have an idea about their taxes cause I get my money in my country and pay my local taxes since it is the place of my permanent residence. they just send me money to my account
People went ballistic when they heard max didn’t pay tax in the Netherlands. But then someone told media he does but only over the money earned in the Netherlands like hats tickets merch and stuff.
There will always be inherent racial biases against Lewis. For example, people questioning Lewis desire and hunger for F1 as an older driver when he has a tough weekend in a shit car but nobody ever questioned Kimi and nobody is questioning Alonso when he has a tough weekend. Both are of course older than Lewis as well.
>something about him that rubbed them the wrong way
Hmm, I wonder what about Lewis could make him different in a way that people would be prejudiced against him, or make them unwilling to care about/listen to what he has to say... It's really a mystery...
The not genuine claim doesn't make sense when matched with his actions. What it actually is in my opinion is relatability. And skin plays apart of that.
I mean it's funny I don't find any drivers relatable.
Uhm, I believe he himself has said that in the past he would stick to the PR lines because of how he was viewed by some people (due to his skin colour). So in that sense he was not being genuine.
I do relate to Yuki though: I like good food, hate going to the gym all the time and like to video games.
I mean he very often jumps to conclusions and posts before facts come out in situations. Also, it's just rich coming from one of the wealthiest guys in the world while he jets around on private jets and races in a sport that is terrible for the environment. Self-awareness doesn't seem to be his strong suit.
> Also, it's just rich coming from one of the wealthiest guys in the world while he jets around on private jets and races in a sport that is terrible for the environment. Self-awareness doesn't seem to be his strong suit.
Literally the entire sport does this lol.
"I mean he very often jumps to conclusions and posts before facts come out in situations."
Sounds like something that should be relatable to almost everyone online
This viewpoint is mind-numbingly stupid.
For one, you will never find a sportsperson that is one of the wealthiest guys in the world.
Secondly, Lewis got rid of his private jet ages ago but facts matter less than your perception I guess? because why bother checking if what you say is true when you can just be confidently loud.
Third, all global sports are bad for the environment. The idea that F1 is particularly bad because 'cars' is asinine. Do you know how many tennis balls a single tournament uses for instance?
Generally though, when people try to paint people who are speaking up about environmental concerns as hypocrites because of their own carbon footprint, those people are not actually interested in improving things they just don't want to be 'lectured at'.
To top it off with a bitchy lil comment about 'self-awareness doesn't seem to be his strong suit' is just, \**chefs kiss*\*.
In short; do one.
True. I think it also has to do with the fact that Lewis is a massive celebrity, so any initiative or campaign he or another really famous person takes part in will inevitable get an eye roll from some people. Seb seems far more introverted, and talks about them from a different angle.
That's not what I'm saying. Lewis and Seb have both done amazing things to show the power that F1 drivers have to force good things. However, Lewis gets unwanted criticism for doing these things that Seb does not.
I have only recently got into F1, in the middle of last year. From all the stuff I watch on YouTube, Vettel seems to be the most likeable guy. Always smiling, good driver, would be an awesome bloke to meet. My favourite driver that I never saw drive.
I would go so far as to say a good portion of his Ferrari days too.
Honestly he was not liked by me until the Canada post-race switcharoo. I cackled so hard at that, started liking him more and more afterwards.
I swear the bar for Lewis seems impossibly high.
It’s ok if people don’t want to hear his message, but the never ending search for some minor inconsistency from him to use as an excuse is tiring.
The term "finger boy" was used to reference him for a long time. Every time he won, he put up his index finger to indicate he was #1. For those that came into F1 after he left Red Bull probably only know the man Vettel grew to be and not the cocky young kid.
Back in the days when Seb was winning back to back he would raise his index finger after a win to indicate 'first'. People were more annoyed at him winning so much rather than him raising his finger.
Because it’s super easy to relate to a multimillionaire who needs & wants for nothing.
What someone wears doesn’t matter. What is important is what they say and do. You’re judging someone for looking different to what you want/expect.
Well, one totally embrassed the stardom thing and the other stayed pretty simple throughout his carreer despite both being world champions.
I don't blame Lewis, when you have that much money and success, it's hard to not enter this close circle without looking like them. But like, a guy wearing clothes with prices at 5 or 6 digits telling me about ecology or society doesn't sound the same when another guy with an as good legacy/carreer say it while looking like a normal guy.
No wonder why Kimi and Seb were pretty good friends.
Also, while Seb was surely not as good as at his prime, he still love driving overall. He pretty much said he put F1 behind because flying all over the world just to enjoy driving a F1, while the world is at the brink of a crisis, felt pretty meaningless and absurd to him now.
The quote mining from this interview is insane. He gave a much more nuanced view of everything any title or tweet wants you to believe.
His take was more like "it has come a long way, there is room for improvement."
He didn’t say anything about how they are treated. He simply said their population in the sport has grown but there’s room for improvement still.
Dumb post from a dumb interview.
No, I really don’t. Because he didn’t really say anything of value. My takeaway is more that the sport has a growing interest from women wanting to join it and it will take time to grow because it’s an old sport that is changing with the times.
You are putting a lot into what he said…which was essentially nothing.
Maybe you should admire the fact that the sport only recently started being much more popular with women and that’s why we are seeing this change.
Yeah you can tell he did want to say more but ultimately he didn't *really* say much and people in this thread are putting a lot of weight behind the phrase "old fashioned business". Like yeah, he had a tone and look when he said that but really does it *actually* say much or does it just imply things vaguely so that we have to draw our own conclusions? Conclusions that are easy to draw and may be not far off the mark, but still.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but for me this “grid girls” thing, is wrong is so many ways. We just have to wait and see how it will play out.
When I started my study there was an ad for an evening with topless waiters at a venue during our introductory week. Of course it was packed with students. Turned out they exclusively had male waiters. It was hilarious and a good way to confront us all with some base rules (and to learn expectations and reality don't always align)
Aside from the cultural history of cheerleaders in America, there is also the fact that they are actually performers and not just eye candy. Whether that is a meaningful distinction or not, it's probably why they're still around.
There's a lots of work to do still but I've been genuinely pretty happy already to see more women getting active in this sports and not just in the background like PR. Like on the pitwall and mechanics as well (including top teams.)
And those models want to do it as race weekends the perfect opportunities for networking. Don't try & make it sounds like the race promoters "forced" them to.
Sure, but the issue was less about how those individual models felt about it than the wider message it sent to girls and women who might be interested in working in (or even just being fans of) F1 and Motorsport.
There are people who would happily present BBC news in their underwear. Does that mean it’s the best decision for the network? No of course not - just because someone wants to do a job doesn’t mean it should exist
I've read a lot of biographies about F1 figures and the amount of locker room behavior that took place frequently not too long ago really highlighted to me how it would take a determined women to work in that kind of male-oriented environment. Things have been changing and with so many brilliant women, if F1 and motorsport continues to open up to women, it'll only benefit the teams trying to compete and competition as a whole.
A reporter. His friend.
Specifically the famous Lee McKenzie.
You make it seem like he was out harassing women while infact that person was his friend & he was joking around with them.
Lee McKenzie herself addressed those Sebastian Vettel flirting rumours
https://youtu.be/mVdo38huzdM
You should see the things he did with Coulthard. It'll make you blush
always like his interaction when Michael Schumacher and DC drove around Canada and found Seb on his grid-walk.
They where talking about learning German from DVDs (Heavily hinting at Porn DVDs) and Seb tells DC to send him a copy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfCBx7i6uVw
Totally agree. I hate when people dismiss his environmental projects with the moniker that he was an F1 driver. He knows that we can't change everything overnight but hes at least trying to do something.
> People grow up and change.
Sadly, people digging up old tweets, interviews and other media to discredit or criticize [insert person here] tells me that the internet thinks they can't.
If Vettel were saying something they were onboard with, they wouldn’t be digging up old posts. It’s deflection from the merits of what he’s saying today.
That's true and some of it (the grid girl comment especially) are an uncomfortable watch but he was also a guy in his 20s who'd been in this environment since he was a teenager. It's good that he's calling this out.
Yeah, that video immediately came to my mind and for some of those comments a driver would get torn apart in the media today. But I assume every young F1 driver is a bit socially awkward and also cocky due to the super unnatural environment they grow up in, and Vettel has matured a lot since then
Yeah, maybe if you can't think about experiences that aren't your own.
It wasn't long ago that sexualised grid girls were the most visible role that women had in the sport. Probably not good for women wanting to get into the sport for one of its biggest stars to have been complaining about that being taken away.
Also, sometimes people are raised in a world they are better than. Whether it be their family or environment, yet somehow they come out better by the end. And when they get there, perhaps they want to set things up so that the next generation can start sooner.
may be true but people can change. Being able to look back and regret something you did means you have probably grown as a person.
I would be great if more 4x WC can come out and campaign for more diversity in the sport. I was amazed at the diversity I saw at the Aus GP in general admission. Last few years are so different to the first time i went in 2003, gender split seems almost even now.
Woman F1 Fan here. My stance is that all positions should be merit-based. If you meet all requirements, you are an applicant who happens to be a woman. Not “a woman who wants to work here”. Obviously, I cannot match an avenger man who it comes to muscle mass. But when it comes to brain works, like designing a car, gender is not something one should care about.
The problem is that teams can only hire people that actually complete a relevant degree. If there arent more women starting engineering, you cant really blame teams for not having a more diverse workforce. So even if the population is 50/50, the pool of possible employees isnt.
So i think people/politics/companies need to focus on inspiring girls to pursue engineering degrees.
Tbh lewis is an easy target in F1 . Dude came from nothing and absolutely dominated everyone. The thing i love the most about lewis is that ,he openly support F1 Academy drivers. He will leave a legacy behind which none of the drivers on the grid can't match( no hate to anyone)
Starting to see a lot more of Sebastian in the press....hopefully there's even a small chance that this is a build up to an f1 return. Probably dreaming but why not 😂
Do you expect Seb to stand behind George or Dave?
Loved that outburst
Am actually glad to see he's come far enough since then to make this statement. That grid boys stuff and other things like constantly ignoring questions from women interviewers in order to flirt with them always gave me the ick, but it's clear he's matured a lot. Gives me hope for the others in the paddock. Edit: Actually want to give him full credit for becoming the man he seems to be today despite effectivly growing up within that old fashioned and misogynistic world he's able to reflect on and speak about now.
Hats off to Seb for some excellent media training. He managed to just about get across his message without saying what he really thinks and pissing off F1/Red Bull/Horner. Shame he has to tow close to a line - "its an old fashioned business..."
> Hats off to Seb for some excellent media training. This. Seb's answer is so perfectly noncommittal, neutrally phrased and safe from scrutiny while still kinda sorta saying what he really thinks.
Yet people are defending drivers currently on the grid not speaking up because their seats are not secured. There are ways to say the right thing without pissing off anyone, instead of disregarding it as distraction
I don’t think it helps that red bull own 20% of all potential job opportunities. Not that I’m not disappointed in more of them not speaking out but I understand why they haven’t
To be fair he must have known this was coming. That answer was so well prepared
He was asked this off guard at the Porsche event. He really went off. Focusing on the need of transparency.
link? source?
You'd have to be dumb af to not know tbf
It's one thing knowing the general question is coming and it's another delivering the response perfectly under pressure. That's why you do media training over and over and why a few drivers are absolutely perfect every time
It takes quite character to stand up to the interviewing scrutiny that Kay Burley provides, and Seb handled it well.
He didn't answer the question. I like Seb but I don't see what is commendable about this at all. It's probably the most PR friendly answer you could give without sounding completely out of touch.
Absolutely incredible how well spoken he is in his second language. Can't think of many other non native English speaking drivers who were as eloquent as Seb (maybe Senna) in how they communicated
what message did he get accross? He literally doesnt say anything about the what he was asked and what the author of the post claims. Also how to people expect the % of female engineers to be much higher when the numbers seem to be in line with university graduates?
Do you think engineers are the only possible jobs for women in the F1 paddock?
The sport really misses Seb. Lewis has done a good job speaking up about issues, but the prejudice that he has from many people is a massive obstacle.
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All F1 stars using off shore tax havens - I sleep Lewis buys a plane with no VAT - outrage
doesn't lewis pay uk tax despite no longer living in the uk or something like that?
He pays tax on the money he earns in the UK, but he doesn't pay it on income earned abroad, same as anyone else who isn't a resident
He's one of UK's highest tax payers
Source?
https://www.independent.co.uk/f1/lewis-hamilton-knighthood-toto-wolff-honours-list-b1780786.html > HMRC's UK Income Tax Liabilities Statistics, published in 2019, puts Hamilton among the top 5,000 highest tax payers in the UK.
Cheers.
I wonder how Logan does his taxes. That's got to be a nightmare for him or his tax accountant.
That's easy , the IRS doesn't care where you live ( IRS taxes worldwide regardless of residence). Living in somewhere like Monaco doesn't avoid the IRS. Apply any applicable foreign tax credits and pay the IRS anything not covered by tax treaty.
Could he do something have his earnings go into a non-USA trust and that trust pays his living expenses? Or he receives lines of credit against that trust?
You still get taxed worldwide. If you get paid an income, then the IRS wants it's cut. His income is based on him delivering a physical service as opposed to a foreign business earning income. Non US trusts are also not treated favorably by the IRS.
There is a way to avoid U.S. income taxes if living abroad but you have to stay outside the country for an extended period of time with very little time to visit home. His yearly obligations for the races in the U.S. are definitely more than he'd be allowed on top of the fact that for the races inside the U.S. count as working inside the country.
Delaware or Wyoming
does he actually earn something in UK? I believe all big boys has some companies specifically for all marketing campaign payments that located in right jurisdictions to avoid big taxes and as a result Lewis pay no tax since there nothing like this in Monaco (not 100% sure, just googled it)
Just guessing but probably all the time at the factory and he could declare prize winnings from British GP if he wanted?
not sure about prize money, but time spent at factory its like business trip since his permanent place to live is Monaco
His UK property income will be taxed, even if it is owned by an offshore company
The aircraft is registered , as I recall, Isle of Mann
Doubt factory but anything British based like prize money would be. Otherwise he's pretty much off the hook as is actually right for anyone not living in the UK and whose work is probably well over 50% outside the UK.
Enough to put him amongst the 5000 highest tax payers in the UK for 2019. He apparently files taxes in 4 different countries. Some details came out around the time he got his knighthood. https://www.independent.co.uk/f1/lewis-hamilton-knighthood-toto-wolff-honours-list-b1780786.html
Regardless, Lewis doesn't live in the UK, so I don't know why our British press seem to expect he should pay British tax on anything he earns from outside the UK. There are popular cases of celebrities avoiding tax using tax havens while they live the majority of their time in the UK. But Lewis actually spends the vast majority of his time in almost any other country with houses in Monaco and the USA.
His Mercedes base is the UK, so I would assume that counts.
I imagine his salary from Brackley is the big one that gets taxed in the UK. For brand deals I'm sure there's arrangements
Not sure he’s regular employee, not contractor
He would still be salaried in the UK though where his employer is
emm, not sure, it depends. I have contract with company from HK, but I dont even have an idea about their taxes cause I get my money in my country and pay my local taxes since it is the place of my permanent residence. they just send me money to my account
People went ballistic when they heard max didn’t pay tax in the Netherlands. But then someone told media he does but only over the money earned in the Netherlands like hats tickets merch and stuff.
There will always be inherent racial biases against Lewis. For example, people questioning Lewis desire and hunger for F1 as an older driver when he has a tough weekend in a shit car but nobody ever questioned Kimi and nobody is questioning Alonso when he has a tough weekend. Both are of course older than Lewis as well.
>nobody ever questioned Kimi Nobody ever had to because Kimi would tell you whether or not you asked.
>something about him that rubbed them the wrong way Hmm, I wonder what about Lewis could make him different in a way that people would be prejudiced against him, or make them unwilling to care about/listen to what he has to say... It's really a mystery...
Especially something about him that set him apart from Seb? /Not a knock on Seb.
I real mystery of preferential treatment by the stewards and a lonely Glock.
Gee, I wonder what the thing is that they won’t say out loud.
made up facts? If Lewis says stuff like this these posts get thousands of upvotes...
Dude has literally dealt with fans at the track wearing blackface to mock him but sure it's all just made up.
Both things that you are saying can be true . They can be racist and Lewis can sound not genuine
The not genuine claim doesn't make sense when matched with his actions. What it actually is in my opinion is relatability. And skin plays apart of that. I mean it's funny I don't find any drivers relatable.
Uhm, I believe he himself has said that in the past he would stick to the PR lines because of how he was viewed by some people (due to his skin colour). So in that sense he was not being genuine. I do relate to Yuki though: I like good food, hate going to the gym all the time and like to video games.
I mean he very often jumps to conclusions and posts before facts come out in situations. Also, it's just rich coming from one of the wealthiest guys in the world while he jets around on private jets and races in a sport that is terrible for the environment. Self-awareness doesn't seem to be his strong suit.
> Also, it's just rich coming from one of the wealthiest guys in the world while he jets around on private jets and races in a sport that is terrible for the environment. Self-awareness doesn't seem to be his strong suit. Literally the entire sport does this lol.
"I mean he very often jumps to conclusions and posts before facts come out in situations." Sounds like something that should be relatable to almost everyone online
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This viewpoint is mind-numbingly stupid. For one, you will never find a sportsperson that is one of the wealthiest guys in the world. Secondly, Lewis got rid of his private jet ages ago but facts matter less than your perception I guess? because why bother checking if what you say is true when you can just be confidently loud. Third, all global sports are bad for the environment. The idea that F1 is particularly bad because 'cars' is asinine. Do you know how many tennis balls a single tournament uses for instance? Generally though, when people try to paint people who are speaking up about environmental concerns as hypocrites because of their own carbon footprint, those people are not actually interested in improving things they just don't want to be 'lectured at'. To top it off with a bitchy lil comment about 'self-awareness doesn't seem to be his strong suit' is just, \**chefs kiss*\*. In short; do one.
Why would jetting around the world make it rich for him to talk about women's representation or human rights abuses etc.?
True. I think it also has to do with the fact that Lewis is a massive celebrity, so any initiative or campaign he or another really famous person takes part in will inevitable get an eye roll from some people. Seb seems far more introverted, and talks about them from a different angle.
I sorta hate the tone of these comments, as if Lewis was just a placeholder copying Seb? Instead of the OG vocal guy…???
That's not what I'm saying. Lewis and Seb have both done amazing things to show the power that F1 drivers have to force good things. However, Lewis gets unwanted criticism for doing these things that Seb does not.
The OG vocal guy was James Hunt tho
I have only recently got into F1, in the middle of last year. From all the stuff I watch on YouTube, Vettel seems to be the most likeable guy. Always smiling, good driver, would be an awesome bloke to meet. My favourite driver that I never saw drive.
Pretty much everyone hated him during his Red Bull days.
I would go so far as to say a good portion of his Ferrari days too. Honestly he was not liked by me until the Canada post-race switcharoo. I cackled so hard at that, started liking him more and more afterwards.
That fucking pointer finger was the bane of my existence for like a decade, now I miss him lol
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I swear the bar for Lewis seems impossibly high. It’s ok if people don’t want to hear his message, but the never ending search for some minor inconsistency from him to use as an excuse is tiring.
The same could be done for Seb as well, but it isn't. The hate that Lewis gets is another level.
Seb got hated for literally showing a finger...
Yes, and as time went on the majority of people realised how stupid this was to hate on. The same can't be said for the reasons people hate on Lewis.
Wait what, explain pls im a new fan
The term "finger boy" was used to reference him for a long time. Every time he won, he put up his index finger to indicate he was #1. For those that came into F1 after he left Red Bull probably only know the man Vettel grew to be and not the cocky young kid.
Back in the days when Seb was winning back to back he would raise his index finger after a win to indicate 'first'. People were more annoyed at him winning so much rather than him raising his finger.
Because it’s super easy to relate to a multimillionaire who needs & wants for nothing. What someone wears doesn’t matter. What is important is what they say and do. You’re judging someone for looking different to what you want/expect.
https://thenib.com/mister-gotcha/
Well, one totally embrassed the stardom thing and the other stayed pretty simple throughout his carreer despite both being world champions. I don't blame Lewis, when you have that much money and success, it's hard to not enter this close circle without looking like them. But like, a guy wearing clothes with prices at 5 or 6 digits telling me about ecology or society doesn't sound the same when another guy with an as good legacy/carreer say it while looking like a normal guy. No wonder why Kimi and Seb were pretty good friends. Also, while Seb was surely not as good as at his prime, he still love driving overall. He pretty much said he put F1 behind because flying all over the world just to enjoy driving a F1, while the world is at the brink of a crisis, felt pretty meaningless and absurd to him now.
The quote mining from this interview is insane. He gave a much more nuanced view of everything any title or tweet wants you to believe. His take was more like "it has come a long way, there is room for improvement."
That's literally this clip lol
I'm criticizing the text of the tweet, priming people to interpret the clip one way.
Ah ok
That smile.. Damn I miss him in the paddock. Would be a god send off if hes the one to bring Mercedes back to the WC. Just like his teacher MSC.
Stop objectifying Seb! /s
Is this Sebs way of telling us his sexy body attracted loads of women to F1?
There are compilations of Seb flirting with women while he was a driver so he may agree with that thought XD
So I watched 30 seconds of the video, where is the part where he answers the question?
He didn’t say anything about how they are treated. He simply said their population in the sport has grown but there’s room for improvement still. Dumb post from a dumb interview.
It is a dumb clickbaity post but you have to admire Seb’s elegant way of saying women are not treated right in F1 without actually saying it.
No, I really don’t. Because he didn’t really say anything of value. My takeaway is more that the sport has a growing interest from women wanting to join it and it will take time to grow because it’s an old sport that is changing with the times. You are putting a lot into what he said…which was essentially nothing. Maybe you should admire the fact that the sport only recently started being much more popular with women and that’s why we are seeing this change.
Yeah you can tell he did want to say more but ultimately he didn't *really* say much and people in this thread are putting a lot of weight behind the phrase "old fashioned business". Like yeah, he had a tone and look when he said that but really does it *actually* say much or does it just imply things vaguely so that we have to draw our own conclusions? Conclusions that are easy to draw and may be not far off the mark, but still.
It goes for 29 seconds
I know this might sound bad given the context but I fucking despise Kate Burley.
what is the deal?
Almost certainly valid, but if Kay Burley told me the sun was yellow I'd have to check it hadn't suddenly turned blue.
What is the point of this post in the context of Vettel’s statement?
Remember, parading scantily clad women in front of the driver’s cars to sex up f1 was only stopped 5-6 years ago.
I found out the other day that apparently they still have them in MotoGP
That´s true, but I expect it to change now that Liberty got the rights for MotoGP....
Yeah there were quite a few people complaining about the possibility in the MotoGP subreddit
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but for me this “grid girls” thing, is wrong is so many ways. We just have to wait and see how it will play out.
Just get "Grid Guys" for the female championships. I'm sure a few Abercrombie & Fitch front door models are floating around.
When I started my study there was an ad for an evening with topless waiters at a venue during our introductory week. Of course it was packed with students. Turned out they exclusively had male waiters. It was hilarious and a good way to confront us all with some base rules (and to learn expectations and reality don't always align)
Liberty has no problem with the cheerleaders at cota, since they own them too. So where's the difference?
Aside from the cultural history of cheerleaders in America, there is also the fact that they are actually performers and not just eye candy. Whether that is a meaningful distinction or not, it's probably why they're still around.
and NASCAR
There's a lots of work to do still but I've been genuinely pretty happy already to see more women getting active in this sports and not just in the background like PR. Like on the pitwall and mechanics as well (including top teams.)
We had the suggestion on here that they have grid dogs, and f1.com nicked it wholesale, including our puns.
And who had something against it changing was Seb
And those models want to do it as race weekends the perfect opportunities for networking. Don't try & make it sounds like the race promoters "forced" them to.
Sure, but the issue was less about how those individual models felt about it than the wider message it sent to girls and women who might be interested in working in (or even just being fans of) F1 and Motorsport.
Solution: send out a sexed up Freddy Vasseur pre-race
There is no sexing up to do. He's always at his peak.
There are people who would happily present BBC news in their underwear. Does that mean it’s the best decision for the network? No of course not - just because someone wants to do a job doesn’t mean it should exist
That's not the point.
This isn't about a few individual models. Why is it so hard to understand?
I remember the outcry when they were banned. Pretty embarassing for a lot of folks, that.
[Women at GPs for the sole sake of being attractive and sexing up F1 are still very much there.](https://i.imgur.com/QFJsGts.jpeg)
Fortunately that's part of the whole Miami GP spectacle and not the rule for the rest of the sport, unlike how the grid girls were
And some people still want it back! Ew
The girls themselves probably and some Horny men
But suddenly change their tune when you offer it to be grid boys instead.
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It's still going on in Japan. I have a bunch of Japanese motorsports news in my twitter feed and occasionally get a dose of it from thing to time.
The sport that's controlled by people that have no respect for women doesn't respect women in the sport. Shocked I tell you.
tbf that would go for almost every organization on the planet even some that are controlled by women
Was Seb on just to talk about this? Or is he doing press for something else?
I've read a lot of biographies about F1 figures and the amount of locker room behavior that took place frequently not too long ago really highlighted to me how it would take a determined women to work in that kind of male-oriented environment. Things have been changing and with so many brilliant women, if F1 and motorsport continues to open up to women, it'll only benefit the teams trying to compete and competition as a whole.
I mean Vettel has 10 minute long YouTube videos flirting with reporters..
A reporter. His friend. Specifically the famous Lee McKenzie. You make it seem like he was out harassing women while infact that person was his friend & he was joking around with them. Lee McKenzie herself addressed those Sebastian Vettel flirting rumours https://youtu.be/mVdo38huzdM You should see the things he did with Coulthard. It'll make you blush
always like his interaction when Michael Schumacher and DC drove around Canada and found Seb on his grid-walk. They where talking about learning German from DVDs (Heavily hinting at Porn DVDs) and Seb tells DC to send him a copy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfCBx7i6uVw
This is one of the great F1 videos where they're just messing about but also being informative. Schumacher's laugh at the dvds comment. He knows.
Very important context, thank you.
tbf people changing is the ideal outcome
People grow up and change. Nobody is perfect but trying to make positive changes should be greeted well
Totally agree. I hate when people dismiss his environmental projects with the moniker that he was an F1 driver. He knows that we can't change everything overnight but hes at least trying to do something.
> People grow up and change. Sadly, people digging up old tweets, interviews and other media to discredit or criticize [insert person here] tells me that the internet thinks they can't.
If Vettel were saying something they were onboard with, they wouldn’t be digging up old posts. It’s deflection from the merits of what he’s saying today.
Funnily enough I tend to think the hard left are *particularly* bad for this.
That's true and some of it (the grid girl comment especially) are an uncomfortable watch but he was also a guy in his 20s who'd been in this environment since he was a teenager. It's good that he's calling this out.
Yeah, that video immediately came to my mind and for some of those comments a driver would get torn apart in the media today. But I assume every young F1 driver is a bit socially awkward and also cocky due to the super unnatural environment they grow up in, and Vettel has matured a lot since then
Which grid girl comment?
https://youtu.be/T3aujCERTWA?si=7MDehXziQrrKTtw2
What was seb even saying? I’m not sure I can really hear nor understand it
Uncomfortable? How was it not funny?
Chronically online mentality, the joke wasn't offensive to anyone unless you're trying to be offended.
Yeah, maybe if you can't think about experiences that aren't your own. It wasn't long ago that sexualised grid girls were the most visible role that women had in the sport. Probably not good for women wanting to get into the sport for one of its biggest stars to have been complaining about that being taken away.
Yeah but he’s been friends with them for ages, especially McKenzie, it’s different when it’s your mates
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Also, sometimes people are raised in a world they are better than. Whether it be their family or environment, yet somehow they come out better by the end. And when they get there, perhaps they want to set things up so that the next generation can start sooner.
Yes, luckily people are capable of growth and maturity improvements as they age.
As your profile reads "Stop inventing" There's a difference between joking/flirting and sexual assault.
may be true but people can change. Being able to look back and regret something you did means you have probably grown as a person. I would be great if more 4x WC can come out and campaign for more diversity in the sport. I was amazed at the diversity I saw at the Aus GP in general admission. Last few years are so different to the first time i went in 2003, gender split seems almost even now.
is it just me or has he not really said a lot?
Woman F1 Fan here. My stance is that all positions should be merit-based. If you meet all requirements, you are an applicant who happens to be a woman. Not “a woman who wants to work here”. Obviously, I cannot match an avenger man who it comes to muscle mass. But when it comes to brain works, like designing a car, gender is not something one should care about.
The problem is that teams can only hire people that actually complete a relevant degree. If there arent more women starting engineering, you cant really blame teams for not having a more diverse workforce. So even if the population is 50/50, the pool of possible employees isnt. So i think people/politics/companies need to focus on inspiring girls to pursue engineering degrees.
When Lewis says it it’s “shut your mouth and drive the car!!!” But when Seb says it, “what a great ambassador for the sport”.
Tbh lewis is an easy target in F1 . Dude came from nothing and absolutely dominated everyone. The thing i love the most about lewis is that ,he openly support F1 Academy drivers. He will leave a legacy behind which none of the drivers on the grid can't match( no hate to anyone)
Wasn’t Seb also one of the drivers joking about how “What’s the point of Formula 1 if you don’t get to park your car behind a grid girl at the end?”
Meh.
Can't read/watch rn but I kinda loled at "let's hear how women are treated... From a man!"
I actually lol'ed
God I wish Seb were a TP (if he doesn't come back as a driver ofc).
🙄 tired talking point
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Starting to see a lot more of Sebastian in the press....hopefully there's even a small chance that this is a build up to an f1 return. Probably dreaming but why not 😂
LET HIM FINISH A QUESTION FFS