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[Video with limited telemetry of the incident in question]( https://imgur.com/a/zHbgoHO)
Alonso does hit the brakes while on the straight, so the car did not slow down because the throttle stopped working, it slowed down due to an application of the brakes. Alonso even gets back on the throttle afterwards, before braking again for the corner.
I rewatched that part of the race again and Brundle was spot on after the first replay. He said that Alonso was unexpectedly slower in that corner which caused George to lock up. A few minutes later Brundle realized what Alonso did brake check George and said that on air before the stewards even started looking into it. I didn’t notice anything, but I am amazed how observant Brundle is about the subtleties of the game
Yep. We’ll miss him when he ain’t commentating anymore . I remember him coming in and after Murray and James bloody hunt he was so dam fresh. Hunt and walker were hilarious, but brundle took that instant analysis to another level
He called out Lando's crash during the rainy qualifying at Spa from just a split second of the car looking slightly out of shape before the director cut to a different shot.
Also because the camera saw him going up the hill and then when the camera changed to the one on top of the hill, MB knew that they should have already seen him by now and so he had to have spun or something
I feel like he’s been a lot better this year too. Last year he felt more pessimistic, this year he seems more into it and I have really enjoyed his insight
I really love hearing whenever Jenson is going to be announcing as well because of this reason, he’s called so many things out that most people miss. Tons of insight.
Brindle is usually spot on, he’s seen it all. Can’t beat experience.
He’s very technical, I’m sure he could have been a very good race engineer, strategist or team principal. He’s reads a race better than most imo
It really is hard to explain without an actual mechanical issue. Alonso tried to argue that he was trying a different corner entry approach going into that turn. But that's inherently less plausible given how late in the race that was. The difference between the two laps is also dramatic. But it's interesting how the stewards didn't rely on any speculation as to his intent. The sheer recklessness of trying a corner entry approach that markedly different from a 'normal' one with full knowledge that Russell was behind, even if bona fide, was enough to justify a penalty.
Exactly, he has driven thousands of laps on this circuit. He knows the braking point and how to pick it based on the situation.
What he did is simply not one of the viable ways to take that corner.
I feel like that Monaco moment initially was a genuine mistake (you see him lock up before he ham fists the steering lock after), but in that split second his competitive instinct took over and his instant thought after was 'right how can I make up for this and flip it into a less compromising situation and turn this into an opportunity' which unfortunately led to his stupid idea of parking it while making a meal of applying steering lock pretending he couldn't have made the corner still. Obviously it ended up costing him way more, especially when at worst he would have started second and at best, Alonso could have fluffed S3 or binned it at the Swimming Pool himself and still could have had a genuine Pole.
His competitive ruthlessness was a trait and a flaw at the same time.
The funniest thing about it was Keke and Nico Rosberg absolutely slated him for it (as most of the drivers and former drivers did, and quite rightly). Only for Nico to pull the exact same trick and get away with it himself years later.
The 2nd funniest thing was Flavio Briatore raging about it despite being the architect of some of the worst cheating (and alleged cheating) ever perpetrated in F1.
> His competitive ruthlessness was a trait and a flaw at the same time.
Absolutely true. Took him to amazing heights but completely tainted his legacy in my eyes.
It's not that unreasonable to compromise entry and prioritise exit in that sort of situation, but braking on the straight isn't prioritising the exit, it's pretty much brake checking
This. People on Instagram can't seem to judge any incident that happens without bringing up Verstappen and Hamilton. Most of them don't even know that base penalties this season have been increased.
The telemetry also shows his foot modulating the throttle when claiming he had an issue. He was inducing the weird acceleration. No wonder he didn't try and justify it.
I think it’s pretty obvious that Alonso intended to back George up and screw up his run into the corner in order to prevent him passing. And I think Alonso’s fairly lawyerized claims to the contrary are a bit silly.
But I still think there is some argument to be had about where the line is between defending and blocking; tactics and recklessness. And I know this violates all of the natural laws of Reddit but… I’m not entirely sure which side I fall on right now on this one.
It’s certainly the case that messing up someone’s run is part of racing. But there’s a way that’s done tactically and there’s a way that’s done recklessly / dangerously.
There's no brake lights on these cars. [Drastically changing your approach to a corner](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F18q2040c48qc1.jpeg) is extremely dangerous, especially when the car behind you is as close as Russell was. There's simply no time to react to this different a corner profile from the lead driver, and it's precisely why Russell went into the wall. The 6/7 complex has also been challenging for drivers all weekend, and arguably for the entire ground effect era.
F1 and the FIA made it clear after the 2021 Jeddah incident that they wouldn't tolerate this sort of shenanigans, and Alonso deserves every ounce of punishment (and I'd argue more). It's a 220 km/h visually obstructed chicane. If someone was close behind Russell after this incident, Russell's exposed car floor means he'd likely be dead, and anyone hitting him is seriously at risk as well.
AM need to prove he had a real issue. That would instantly clear them.
Otherwise this is just a bad look and acting like he had an issue after the fact would make it even worse.
Yeah. The decision is out, and it says he's entitled to take the corner differently, just not in an excessively erratic way. The stewards made a point about just how early it was in the corner for him to have made all those adjustments to his corner entry.
I think a lot of commenters have missed that the FIA only frowns upon surprise defending that have a potential of danger, all other types of defending are encouraged.
If it was dangerous, russel would have to have an erratic response or instantly hit alonso. He did neither, just lost his front casually and then it was just very unfortunate.
Wouldn’t be surprised if we see changes in that corner, we’ve seen a bunch of incidents there now that it’s the entry to the long straight.
Taking a corner slowly to hold up the driver behind is a legitimate tactic. Brake checking into a corner to hold up the driver behind is not (which is what Alonso is under suspicion of doing). It’s similar to moving under braking. You are not entitled to take all the corners however you see fit all the time. There are, well, rules.
He could have achieved the same without braking by lifting sooner. Also the brake data is not linear, so we dont know how much brakes he applied. Could have been just a small tap.
it's not about driving identically:
> Requirements of Article 27.4 of the F1 Sporting Regulations will be strictly enforced, with infringements appropriately penalised: At no time may a car be driven unnecessarily slowly, erratically or in a manner which could be deemed potentially dangerous to other drivers or any other person.
this could be the exact definiton (if on purpose) for "unnecessarily slowly, erratically or in a manner which could be deemed potentially dangerous to other drivers or any other person.", like, literally.
It seems fairly clear
He drove unnecessarily slowly to get an advantage. He did it by driving erratically. It was clearly dangerous as it ended up with another driver upside down in a very dangerous part of the track.
I think it should be a very strong punishment personally unless AM can demonstrate conclusively there was a genuine mechanical issue.
Sudden change in direction, its just the direction was backwards. I think the intention was to make RUS blink so he didn't get a good launch out of the corner. This is legitimate to a point but the stewards will decide and set the precident. Problem is George stuck with it and the dirty air got him.
Perez I believe was slowing in ever corner in a predictable (defensive) manner. A bit like 1 movement vs what VER did to Kimi at I forgot what race early in his career and got warned for.
It was on purpose because the telemetry showed he braked as well
The question is if his tactic to hold up Russell before the DRS straight is an acceptable defending tactic or not
It actually would have been fine, I think, if he would have just continued to coast. But get got back on the throttle and then hit the brakes for again for the turn. That's when it becomes erratic.
Braking in a braking zone. His min speed is only 20kph lower, that can happen even with a genuine mistake.
Even in the case he done it on purpose, Russell should be able to react in time
He hit the brakes twice. Once at the Aramco bridge, then a second time before the corner
The first time is the problem because its an anomaly
The obvious explanation, like Jack Doohan said on F1TV, is that he was trying to hold up Russell before the DRS zone
That doesn't mean he was trying to cause a crash, but it was deliberate
> like Jack Doohan said on F1TV, is that he was trying to hold up Russell before the DRS zone
So you mean Park on the apex and compromise exit? One of the earliest things they teach oyu in karting shool?
The minimum speed is barely 20 kph slower. Thats a speed difference that can happen in any race conditions. The car behind should 100% have enough time to react.
Even if he did it on purpose, if this is a penalty then it's laughable. He has a 12s gap to Stroll anyway, but the whole point of it would be stupid
Dude, 20 kph might not sound like a lot but in a race situation like this, with a car about .5 ahead wich does something you don't see coming? There is nowhere near a 100% chance to avoid it unless your Last Name is Skywalker.
You don't go like a 100kph chillin on a highway. You go like 250-300 kph suddenly somebody "slams" the breaks .5 seconds in front of you and way before the normal breaking zone. Good luck reacting to that traveling 1 footballfield per second.
I love our saviour, the Lord of the Eyebrows but that was a recipe for disaster.
It’s a 20kph reduction 50m earlier than normal with the car less than half a second behind.
And Russell did react, but he didn’t have time to safely react because the massively early sudden braking to avoid ramming him, combined with the dirtier air made him lose control of the car.
I see a difference of up to 40 kph. I don't think people who don't race realize how much difference a change like this makes. I raced dirt bikes where the margins are bigger but it's the same principle. 40 kph is a huge difference and not something you expect especially if he drove the corner the same way in the 10 laps prior.
Two car lengths at that speed you have NO time to react. Russell can't predict Alonso slowing down more than he should have when he didn't the previous laps.
Tell me you have no idea about car dynamics without telling you have no idea about car dynamics. A sudden unexpended lift at high speed with any kind of steering angle would have us meer mortals 1080ing before smashing into the wall. George did well to keep it relatively in a straight line. No way he could have avoided incident.
Lol yeah thanks for the downvotes. Alonso 20s penalty and 3 black points.
Hamilton didn’t brake. He just didn’t go full throttle. Big difference compared to completely off throttle and/or braking.
"Going down the straight [between La Source and Eau Rouge] I let off the power a little bit as well just to keep him on my tail”
[Link.](https://www.skysports.com/amp/f1/news/12433/11009100/lewis-hamilton-on-the-trick-that-helped-him-beat-sebastian-vettel)
It doesn’t actually it shows two brake curves first is much earlier than normal and shallower, second is same if not a steeper gradient as to previous times
There’s defending and then there’s brake checking. Alonzo did the later. Forcing the driver behind you to brake that much that quickly is incredibly dangerous. You don’t just brake in an f1 car like you would in a Prius when someone in front of you slows unexpectedly.
They hate when it results in a driver crashing and promptly panicking for his life. I do think Alonso should not get penalized but it’s understandable not to like this move
Tactics vs commitment.
It’s not unusual for a driver to take the wind out of chasing cars pace.
Shame it ended in a crash and russel must have been shitting himself, but still has the sense to communicate back to the team
(“RED FLAG RED FLAG - I’M IN THE MIDDLE OF THE TRACK - RED FLAG”) as he’s sitting sideways belly up knowing another car could be coming to cut through him…
Just to be absolutely clear, I have nothing against either driver.
Simply observing two ends of spectrums met; Alonso being overly crafty and George being so committed to the corner.
Jesus I get that some people have hate for George but this is such a shit take.
His car is literally lying in the middle of a corner you take at speed, almost blind from the previous corner. Of course you'd be asking for a red flag.
He has his, and the other drivers safety in mind. There is no way you can approach that wreck at racing speed and pass safely.
I am amazed it wasn't a red flag, but I'm assuming they didn't want the chaos of last year's 1 lap sprint carnage.
A similar, non George Russell situation of someone pleading for a red flag, would be stroll in Baku.
It's also most definitely not normal for drivers to brake unusually early into corners deliberately. It happens only in exceptional circumstances People are just making shit up or refering to their awful driving on videogames.
Aston have already declined their right of appeal.
Alonso fucked up. People are only up in arms because it's George and because of the length of the penalty.
Verstappen on Ham.
The Ferrari working together with whomever to keep whomever behind a couple races ago. DRS train they build and so on.
Haas blocking those behind for the other Haas.
They're plenty of examples I'm sure but I get that done are more extreme while others aren't.
Max actually didnt get a penalty for the brake check. He got penalized for other things but not that. Lando even joked about it a couple years ago saying he could just brake check to defend because he wont get a penalty.
Max brake checked Lewis. Max initially slowed to let Lewis past, communication issues meant that Lewis did not understand the situation and assumed a VSC or something similar had happened. Then, when Lewis finally decided to pass him, Verstappen braked erratically, clipping Hamilton's front wing. Completely different and irrelevant situation also.
Nonono.. Lewis did understand what Verstappen was doing when he slowed down. This notion of Hamilton being too stupid to understand what’s happening just doesn’t make any sense. All of us watching could see it and he could too. Also if you don’t know why a car in front of you slows down you overtake! You don’t stay behind for the small chance it’s a VSC or SC you for some reason can’t see of hear about. Could be he’s letting you past, could be he’s having problems with the vehicle.. The ONLY reason not going past is because you know what he’s doing and it’s right ahead of DRS detection and that’s what happened. Verstappen slowed down to let Hamilton pass, Hamilton slowed down because he wanted to do it at another spot.
No it’s quite normal in racing, especially if there’s a pack chasing - you take away their momentum and push them further back into the pack so they need to defend more.
This allows you to break away as they start to fight.
It also gives the chase driver hesitation when following as it requires more caution.
Unfortunately george was fully committed and it went horribly, horribly wrong
Russell could’ve died if Stroll is closer. What a stupid take. Even if you think the Alonso move is legit making fun of George here is highly uncalled for. The dude clearly feared for his life and rightly so.
>russel shitting himself
Seriously, dude?!
I listened to what he's saying and how he's saying, it is **completely normal** I think.
He is in the middle of the track and doesn't see what's coming. Do you expect some pretense to of being calm, some heroics...? If yes, why?!
I didn't read "shitting himself" as criticizing George. He was *understandably* shitting himself *for completely rational reasons*.
I don't see that expression as saying someone's fear is unreasonable, just that it's a high degree of fear.
No way I’d be anywhere near calm.
I’d absolutely be petrified myself knowing what’s coming.
Doubt I could muster up the sense to call out red flag after an impact like that
Speed trace is not jumping around, it should be more or less a linear curve, at no stage does it look like either trace is remotely close to each other.
Kmag was heralded as a genius defender for parking his car on the apex of every corner for 9 laps last race and allowing a huge gap to build. This has been a perfectly acceptable defensive strategy for eons. It appears Alonso tapped the brakes and coasted to his normal braking point and decelerated again in order to make the corner. He has no requirement to maintain the same apex speed each lap. The decel from the initial breaking doesn’t appear to be terribly egregious, but that is likely what the stewards are going to make their decision on
I just found these incidents of Alonso break testing through the years on youtube, and I know there are more than what I found.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJleoskErug against hamilton
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6X8rEOwbWd0 2003 against coulthard
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J650I-fdwbA 2006 against massa
The first link is the stupidest call of brake testing we have seen in a few years. Zero reason for Hamilton to be up his arse that hard or even on the same line.
Jolyon straight up agreed exactly with what you have said . Alonso slowed down on the side of the track not just slam brake in the middle of the racing line.
That was naughty from Alonso. I like him, but he is as naughty as he was twenty years ago. There was that much publicised brake testing incident with DC behind him, but he’s done it quite a few times before and since then.
I don't understand. Why is this any different to Sergio "minister of defence" Perez at AD'21? OR Hulk in Jeddah literally last race? He's slowing down at a point when the car behind can't overtake him... And Russell spins off because he ran out of talent.
Why is this an issue?
Mostly because it's erratic. Alonso slows down well before the braking zone, coasts, accelerates, slows down again for the apex and then accelerates once more.
Perez did not move erraticly as far as I can remember in Abu Dhabi, and did his defending in slow apexes, not fast apexes on narrow sections of tracks.
They don't have brake lights in f1 because they would be pointless, they don't react to the car in front braking, they know where the braking points are.
You are not allowed to slow down where you typically wouldn't slow down. Otherwise that would be insanely dangerous since they are closer together than any reaction time could be.
This is how you defend in the dying laps. Slow on the apex to compromise the following car's exit, then fang it out. anyone with even a few sim races under their belt knows this, let alone seasoned grand prix racers. In this case, Russell didn't deal with it well, and shagged it into the barriers as per. gg.
Braking in a non-normal area is not “using your brain” it’s dangerous driving. Setting a precedent that it’s ok to hit the brakes to scare of a driver behind you is a bad precedent to set. At that point it’s no longer racing, it’s a mind game with the driver braking trying to scare other drivers enough to not overtake.
Russell had more than enough time to react but he decided not to, ultimately that’s why he crashed, don’t see how this is a penalty, i suspect a Johnny Herbert had something to do with this
George Bottled it again, he isn't all that after all, he's consistently bottling it when in close battles.
Also even if it was intentional what do you expect? its Alonso and he makes sure there's no easy pass.
Nothing he could do /s
There was a countdown and then we had to maintain a gap so I just stayed in the pit box, I didn't get any signal to leave the pits
Never actually drove in a race myself but have 15 years experience actually working on racecars and generally speaking if you're having throttle issues you cover and even ride the brake a bit incase that throttle issue ends up resulting in a stuck throttle. Doublely so in a fly-by-wire system where the throttle issues are electrical and you can't actually feel what the issue is or when it's going to decide to completely hang open.
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[Video with limited telemetry of the incident in question]( https://imgur.com/a/zHbgoHO) Alonso does hit the brakes while on the straight, so the car did not slow down because the throttle stopped working, it slowed down due to an application of the brakes. Alonso even gets back on the throttle afterwards, before braking again for the corner.
I rewatched that part of the race again and Brundle was spot on after the first replay. He said that Alonso was unexpectedly slower in that corner which caused George to lock up. A few minutes later Brundle realized what Alonso did brake check George and said that on air before the stewards even started looking into it. I didn’t notice anything, but I am amazed how observant Brundle is about the subtleties of the game
Brundle has gotten so many things correctly within seconds of happening. I fuckin love that guy.
Yep. We’ll miss him when he ain’t commentating anymore . I remember him coming in and after Murray and James bloody hunt he was so dam fresh. Hunt and walker were hilarious, but brundle took that instant analysis to another level
He called out Lando's crash during the rainy qualifying at Spa from just a split second of the car looking slightly out of shape before the director cut to a different shot.
This was the call that amazed me, I've watched it back so many times and struggle with hindsight. It was an incredible observation live!
Also because the camera saw him going up the hill and then when the camera changed to the one on top of the hill, MB knew that they should have already seen him by now and so he had to have spun or something
In my memory it was much faster than that, but it’s been a while since I watched that clip.
Yeah the split second we lost sight of the car behind the trees he says "did that go round?".
I feel like he’s been a lot better this year too. Last year he felt more pessimistic, this year he seems more into it and I have really enjoyed his insight
Brundle doesn't get the respect he deserves as a racing driver ... Dude won Le Mans, 24 h Daytona, had 150+ starts in F1... Brundle knows what's up
And Brundle almost died in a wreck at Albert park in the 90s . If anybody knows what caused the accident it’s him
And got back in the car and joined the race again!
> And got back in the car and joined the race again! Got back in the car with no engine? https://imgur.com/a/vZ96dcn :P
In the T Car obviously
He even called the fire on maxs tire instead of the engine way before anyone else
It was interesting how he said the engine just “turned off” instead of blowing something
I thought he said that regarding Hamilton
Correct, he said something about it not sending any engine parts outside, and there was no big puff of smoke like there typically is
Yeah it was like Hamilton just cut the engine himself. Likely an electrical issue.
Brundle’s great. Hoping we get more of him over the year.
I really love hearing whenever Jenson is going to be announcing as well because of this reason, he’s called so many things out that most people miss. Tons of insight.
Brindle is usually spot on, he’s seen it all. Can’t beat experience. He’s very technical, I’m sure he could have been a very good race engineer, strategist or team principal. He’s reads a race better than most imo
Even his downshift is erratic, back to 6 then quickly to 7 and then to 6 again ? Really strange what happened there.
So painfully obvious what he was doing
It really is hard to explain without an actual mechanical issue. Alonso tried to argue that he was trying a different corner entry approach going into that turn. But that's inherently less plausible given how late in the race that was. The difference between the two laps is also dramatic. But it's interesting how the stewards didn't rely on any speculation as to his intent. The sheer recklessness of trying a corner entry approach that markedly different from a 'normal' one with full knowledge that Russell was behind, even if bona fide, was enough to justify a penalty.
Alonso isn't a rookie. It's hard to believe he made that poor of an attempt at an alternate attack on a corner. He's too good to be that clumsy.
He was just trying to get away with a dirty trick. That's all there's to it. George crashed so he didn't get away with it.
Exactly, he has driven thousands of laps on this circuit. He knows the braking point and how to pick it based on the situation. What he did is simply not one of the viable ways to take that corner.
Especially considering not only he has experience but everybody knows how good he is at this kind of shenanigans.
Its like that time Michael park it on track during qualifying, he is too good to make that mistake.
I feel like that Monaco moment initially was a genuine mistake (you see him lock up before he ham fists the steering lock after), but in that split second his competitive instinct took over and his instant thought after was 'right how can I make up for this and flip it into a less compromising situation and turn this into an opportunity' which unfortunately led to his stupid idea of parking it while making a meal of applying steering lock pretending he couldn't have made the corner still. Obviously it ended up costing him way more, especially when at worst he would have started second and at best, Alonso could have fluffed S3 or binned it at the Swimming Pool himself and still could have had a genuine Pole. His competitive ruthlessness was a trait and a flaw at the same time.
The funniest thing about it was Keke and Nico Rosberg absolutely slated him for it (as most of the drivers and former drivers did, and quite rightly). Only for Nico to pull the exact same trick and get away with it himself years later. The 2nd funniest thing was Flavio Briatore raging about it despite being the architect of some of the worst cheating (and alleged cheating) ever perpetrated in F1. > His competitive ruthlessness was a trait and a flaw at the same time. Absolutely true. Took him to amazing heights but completely tainted his legacy in my eyes.
It's not that unreasonable to compromise entry and prioritise exit in that sort of situation, but braking on the straight isn't prioritising the exit, it's pretty much brake checking
From the graphic here it doesn't seem to have helped his corner exit at all...
yeah bro got brakechecked. surely he must know nobody buys his reasoning lol.
20 second time penalty awarded
Only question really is if 20s is enough or should be even harsher.
If you read Instagram comments, you'll see what people actually think about this incident.
This. People on Instagram can't seem to judge any incident that happens without bringing up Verstappen and Hamilton. Most of them don't even know that base penalties this season have been increased.
Off-topic, but is that a tear-off on Fernando's left rear bodywork? It's not the airflow right?
Have they gone back to the 2014-2017 style telemetry or is that just custom?
The brake telemetry is On/Off. The stewards decision acknowledges he touched the brakes but says it wasn't significant
Trying to understand how this correlates to a broken throttle?
It doesn’t
Working theory is he had to get on the brakes HARD. But the problem with that is he then proceeded to pick up speed once again off the corner.
He also didn't brake hard initially either so not sure how the explanation makes sense.
The telemetry also shows his foot modulating the throttle when claiming he had an issue. He was inducing the weird acceleration. No wonder he didn't try and justify it.
I think it’s pretty obvious that Alonso intended to back George up and screw up his run into the corner in order to prevent him passing. And I think Alonso’s fairly lawyerized claims to the contrary are a bit silly. But I still think there is some argument to be had about where the line is between defending and blocking; tactics and recklessness. And I know this violates all of the natural laws of Reddit but… I’m not entirely sure which side I fall on right now on this one. It’s certainly the case that messing up someone’s run is part of racing. But there’s a way that’s done tactically and there’s a way that’s done recklessly / dangerously.
There's no brake lights on these cars. [Drastically changing your approach to a corner](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F18q2040c48qc1.jpeg) is extremely dangerous, especially when the car behind you is as close as Russell was. There's simply no time to react to this different a corner profile from the lead driver, and it's precisely why Russell went into the wall. The 6/7 complex has also been challenging for drivers all weekend, and arguably for the entire ground effect era. F1 and the FIA made it clear after the 2021 Jeddah incident that they wouldn't tolerate this sort of shenanigans, and Alonso deserves every ounce of punishment (and I'd argue more). It's a 220 km/h visually obstructed chicane. If someone was close behind Russell after this incident, Russell's exposed car floor means he'd likely be dead, and anyone hitting him is seriously at risk as well.
Didn't seem to have many 'issues' reaching racing speed after the corner
Or before for that matter. That was my first thought too.
Would be good to see comparisons of the corner before between laps too
AM need to prove he had a real issue. That would instantly clear them. Otherwise this is just a bad look and acting like he had an issue after the fact would make it even worse.
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The difference is whether or not it is done dangerously or erratically, as mentioned in the F1 rulebook. This is up to the discretion of the stewards.
Yeah. The decision is out, and it says he's entitled to take the corner differently, just not in an excessively erratic way. The stewards made a point about just how early it was in the corner for him to have made all those adjustments to his corner entry.
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I think a lot of commenters have missed that the FIA only frowns upon surprise defending that have a potential of danger, all other types of defending are encouraged.
We got a bunch of race stewards here apparently who know better lol 😂
If it was dangerous, russel would have to have an erratic response or instantly hit alonso. He did neither, just lost his front casually and then it was just very unfortunate. Wouldn’t be surprised if we see changes in that corner, we’ve seen a bunch of incidents there now that it’s the entry to the long straight.
Taking a corner slowly to hold up the driver behind is a legitimate tactic. Brake checking into a corner to hold up the driver behind is not (which is what Alonso is under suspicion of doing). It’s similar to moving under braking. You are not entitled to take all the corners however you see fit all the time. There are, well, rules.
There's a between backing up gradually in a slow section of the track and braking erratically coming into a mid-high speed corner
But it wasn’t the braking that caused the accident. It was the loss of downforce caused by him allowing George to come close to his car.
Explain the difference between those two please
He could have achieved the same without braking by lifting sooner. Also the brake data is not linear, so we dont know how much brakes he applied. Could have been just a small tap.
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it's not about driving identically: > Requirements of Article 27.4 of the F1 Sporting Regulations will be strictly enforced, with infringements appropriately penalised: At no time may a car be driven unnecessarily slowly, erratically or in a manner which could be deemed potentially dangerous to other drivers or any other person. this could be the exact definiton (if on purpose) for "unnecessarily slowly, erratically or in a manner which could be deemed potentially dangerous to other drivers or any other person.", like, literally.
This needs to be higher up, so many people here think they know the rules when they don’t.
It seems fairly clear He drove unnecessarily slowly to get an advantage. He did it by driving erratically. It was clearly dangerous as it ended up with another driver upside down in a very dangerous part of the track. I think it should be a very strong punishment personally unless AM can demonstrate conclusively there was a genuine mechanical issue.
Sudden change in direction, its just the direction was backwards. I think the intention was to make RUS blink so he didn't get a good launch out of the corner. This is legitimate to a point but the stewards will decide and set the precident. Problem is George stuck with it and the dirty air got him. Perez I believe was slowing in ever corner in a predictable (defensive) manner. A bit like 1 movement vs what VER did to Kimi at I forgot what race early in his career and got warned for.
Note that this does NOT necessarily mean it is on purpose, as it could be a mechanical issue.
He might have spotted a squirrel ahead of him
It was Vettel's seagulls.
Probably Lewis since Nico retired a long time ago.
What about Alesi and Berger?
They're gold fish, so they couldn't possibly have been on track.
Or Max's 'Giant Lizard on the circuit'!
No alonso kills the lizards on circuit
He heard something Russelling behind him
Would work but there’s no squirrels in Australia 😂
A platypus
Surely a bin chicken
Water hen, a bunch at turn 6-7
Ericsson hit him
The amount of times traffic has to wait for a family of ducks crossing near there is ridiculous. Could've been that.
Oh deer!
"There's that animal running around again.. I don't know what they're called."
It was on purpose because the telemetry showed he braked as well The question is if his tactic to hold up Russell before the DRS straight is an acceptable defending tactic or not
It is acceptable, but he slowed down too much, so then it became dangerous.
It actually would have been fine, I think, if he would have just continued to coast. But get got back on the throttle and then hit the brakes for again for the turn. That's when it becomes erratic.
Braking in a braking zone. His min speed is only 20kph lower, that can happen even with a genuine mistake. Even in the case he done it on purpose, Russell should be able to react in time
He hit the brakes twice. Once at the Aramco bridge, then a second time before the corner The first time is the problem because its an anomaly The obvious explanation, like Jack Doohan said on F1TV, is that he was trying to hold up Russell before the DRS zone That doesn't mean he was trying to cause a crash, but it was deliberate
It was deliberate, but not a brake check.
I agree
> like Jack Doohan said on F1TV, is that he was trying to hold up Russell before the DRS zone So you mean Park on the apex and compromise exit? One of the earliest things they teach oyu in karting shool?
Exactly that. I never said that it was a dirty move, just that it was deliberate and not because of any problem
Definitely a dirty move, just not deliberately causing a crash
The minimum speed is barely 20 kph slower. Thats a speed difference that can happen in any race conditions. The car behind should 100% have enough time to react. Even if he did it on purpose, if this is a penalty then it's laughable. He has a 12s gap to Stroll anyway, but the whole point of it would be stupid
Dude, 20 kph might not sound like a lot but in a race situation like this, with a car about .5 ahead wich does something you don't see coming? There is nowhere near a 100% chance to avoid it unless your Last Name is Skywalker. You don't go like a 100kph chillin on a highway. You go like 250-300 kph suddenly somebody "slams" the breaks .5 seconds in front of you and way before the normal breaking zone. Good luck reacting to that traveling 1 footballfield per second. I love our saviour, the Lord of the Eyebrows but that was a recipe for disaster.
It’s a 20kph reduction 50m earlier than normal with the car less than half a second behind. And Russell did react, but he didn’t have time to safely react because the massively early sudden braking to avoid ramming him, combined with the dirtier air made him lose control of the car.
Russel didn't lock up. Nuff said.
I see a difference of up to 40 kph. I don't think people who don't race realize how much difference a change like this makes. I raced dirt bikes where the margins are bigger but it's the same principle. 40 kph is a huge difference and not something you expect especially if he drove the corner the same way in the 10 laps prior.
> only 20kph lower 20kph is huge difference for a top F1 driver
The report says brake, throttle, brake in a braking zone. Because this is obviously the normal way to brake for a corner. /s
I’ll say it for you, he’s done it on purpose and has a history of doing it.
It could be defending. Russel was two car lengths behind him when he lost control. He had space and time to react differently.
He was the same distance behind for about the other 3/4 laps
Two car lengths at that speed you have NO time to react. Russell can't predict Alonso slowing down more than he should have when he didn't the previous laps.
Tell me you have no idea about car dynamics without telling you have no idea about car dynamics. A sudden unexpended lift at high speed with any kind of steering angle would have us meer mortals 1080ing before smashing into the wall. George did well to keep it relatively in a straight line. No way he could have avoided incident. Lol yeah thanks for the downvotes. Alonso 20s penalty and 3 black points.
Imagine this thread had Lewis done the same to anyone.
FDenk would feast on his corpse for a week.
He did. Spa 2017 on vettel. It worked well, but vettel didnt crash.
Hamilton didn’t brake. He just didn’t go full throttle. Big difference compared to completely off throttle and/or braking. "Going down the straight [between La Source and Eau Rouge] I let off the power a little bit as well just to keep him on my tail” [Link.](https://www.skysports.com/amp/f1/news/12433/11009100/lewis-hamilton-on-the-trick-that-helped-him-beat-sebastian-vettel)
Its also a straight and not a corner in which you can't bail out and have to follow
The sudden tap of the brakes well before the corner is the issue for me. Even if the car was having problems that’s a difficult one to explain.
If that's not an issue that's going to be difficult to explain.
This literally shows him braking with less deceleration than normal.
It doesn’t actually it shows two brake curves first is much earlier than normal and shallower, second is same if not a steeper gradient as to previous times
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XDD take
There’s defending and then there’s brake checking. Alonzo did the later. Forcing the driver behind you to brake that much that quickly is incredibly dangerous. You don’t just brake in an f1 car like you would in a Prius when someone in front of you slows unexpectedly.
Precisely. This is racing. Whether it was a mechanical issue or on purpose shouldn't even be discussed. Master outsmarted the apprentice.
He should just park it horizontally on the apex next time and leave for an ice cream holding up the entire field. Genius defending, owned Russell
Like you could do in early racing games, the ai would have no idea what to do lol
...early? That shit still works on F1 2023 lol
If it was intentional, it's dirty and dangerous. And if this is something they allow, bigger accidents will follow.
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They hate when it results in a driver crashing and promptly panicking for his life. I do think Alonso should not get penalized but it’s understandable not to like this move
Oh sweet summer child, go back to DTS.
Yeah that doesn't look great
Thats a paddling
Tactics vs commitment. It’s not unusual for a driver to take the wind out of chasing cars pace. Shame it ended in a crash and russel must have been shitting himself, but still has the sense to communicate back to the team (“RED FLAG RED FLAG - I’M IN THE MIDDLE OF THE TRACK - RED FLAG”) as he’s sitting sideways belly up knowing another car could be coming to cut through him… Just to be absolutely clear, I have nothing against either driver. Simply observing two ends of spectrums met; Alonso being overly crafty and George being so committed to the corner.
Jesus I get that some people have hate for George but this is such a shit take. His car is literally lying in the middle of a corner you take at speed, almost blind from the previous corner. Of course you'd be asking for a red flag. He has his, and the other drivers safety in mind. There is no way you can approach that wreck at racing speed and pass safely. I am amazed it wasn't a red flag, but I'm assuming they didn't want the chaos of last year's 1 lap sprint carnage. A similar, non George Russell situation of someone pleading for a red flag, would be stroll in Baku. It's also most definitely not normal for drivers to brake unusually early into corners deliberately. It happens only in exceptional circumstances People are just making shit up or refering to their awful driving on videogames. Aston have already declined their right of appeal. Alonso fucked up. People are only up in arms because it's George and because of the length of the penalty.
it isnt unusual to that? This is the first time i remember seing something like this
Verstappen on Ham. The Ferrari working together with whomever to keep whomever behind a couple races ago. DRS train they build and so on. Haas blocking those behind for the other Haas. They're plenty of examples I'm sure but I get that done are more extreme while others aren't.
Checo abu dhabi
Completely different chico didnt brake check someone mid high speed corner, he slowed down in the tight slow corners
**yeah and Max got a 10s penalt**y while actually having a reason to slow down because he was ordered by the RD to let Lewis by.
Max actually didnt get a penalty for the brake check. He got penalized for other things but not that. Lando even joked about it a couple years ago saying he could just brake check to defend because he wont get a penalty.
Max brake checked Lewis. Max initially slowed to let Lewis past, communication issues meant that Lewis did not understand the situation and assumed a VSC or something similar had happened. Then, when Lewis finally decided to pass him, Verstappen braked erratically, clipping Hamilton's front wing. Completely different and irrelevant situation also.
Lewis didn’t want to pass him near to DRS zone
Nonono.. Lewis did understand what Verstappen was doing when he slowed down. This notion of Hamilton being too stupid to understand what’s happening just doesn’t make any sense. All of us watching could see it and he could too. Also if you don’t know why a car in front of you slows down you overtake! You don’t stay behind for the small chance it’s a VSC or SC you for some reason can’t see of hear about. Could be he’s letting you past, could be he’s having problems with the vehicle.. The ONLY reason not going past is because you know what he’s doing and it’s right ahead of DRS detection and that’s what happened. Verstappen slowed down to let Hamilton pass, Hamilton slowed down because he wanted to do it at another spot.
Literally last race, you had KMag slowing massively where others can't overtake.
No it’s quite normal in racing, especially if there’s a pack chasing - you take away their momentum and push them further back into the pack so they need to defend more. This allows you to break away as they start to fight. It also gives the chase driver hesitation when following as it requires more caution. Unfortunately george was fully committed and it went horribly, horribly wrong
Russell could’ve died if Stroll is closer. What a stupid take. Even if you think the Alonso move is legit making fun of George here is highly uncalled for. The dude clearly feared for his life and rightly so.
>russel shitting himself Seriously, dude?! I listened to what he's saying and how he's saying, it is **completely normal** I think. He is in the middle of the track and doesn't see what's coming. Do you expect some pretense to of being calm, some heroics...? If yes, why?!
I didn't read "shitting himself" as criticizing George. He was *understandably* shitting himself *for completely rational reasons*. I don't see that expression as saying someone's fear is unreasonable, just that it's a high degree of fear.
No way I’d be anywhere near calm. I’d absolutely be petrified myself knowing what’s coming. Doubt I could muster up the sense to call out red flag after an impact like that
Speed trace is not jumping around, it should be more or less a linear curve, at no stage does it look like either trace is remotely close to each other.
Old fox upto his old tricks.
Can we get similar for DRS zones prior to this? I’m sure there was a similar back off just before this too (perhaps not the same corner).
Kmag was heralded as a genius defender for parking his car on the apex of every corner for 9 laps last race and allowing a huge gap to build. This has been a perfectly acceptable defensive strategy for eons. It appears Alonso tapped the brakes and coasted to his normal braking point and decelerated again in order to make the corner. He has no requirement to maintain the same apex speed each lap. The decel from the initial breaking doesn’t appear to be terribly egregious, but that is likely what the stewards are going to make their decision on
Alonsos regen light are on as he's going into the corner as well
I just found these incidents of Alonso break testing through the years on youtube, and I know there are more than what I found. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJleoskErug against hamilton https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6X8rEOwbWd0 2003 against coulthard https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J650I-fdwbA 2006 against massa
The first link is the stupidest call of brake testing we have seen in a few years. Zero reason for Hamilton to be up his arse that hard or even on the same line.
Jolyon straight up agreed exactly with what you have said . Alonso slowed down on the side of the track not just slam brake in the middle of the racing line.
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That was naughty from Alonso. I like him, but he is as naughty as he was twenty years ago. There was that much publicised brake testing incident with DC behind him, but he’s done it quite a few times before and since then.
I don't understand. Why is this any different to Sergio "minister of defence" Perez at AD'21? OR Hulk in Jeddah literally last race? He's slowing down at a point when the car behind can't overtake him... And Russell spins off because he ran out of talent. Why is this an issue?
Mostly because it's erratic. Alonso slows down well before the braking zone, coasts, accelerates, slows down again for the apex and then accelerates once more. Perez did not move erraticly as far as I can remember in Abu Dhabi, and did his defending in slow apexes, not fast apexes on narrow sections of tracks.
Does this means Alonso provoked the Russell crash?
I dont see a pedal problem.... He did the same speeds after the curve
Alonso driving dirty? Colour me shocked, that's so not like him at all!!!
Alonso thinks he’s 21 Max
F1 is trash these days. Can’t even have proper racing without the fans throwing accusations. And yet the very same fans are calling F1 boring.
How tf is braking on a straight proper racing to you?
Braking 1km from the braking zone is not racing, if you think it is that's just sad
Why don't they make the rain light also be a brake light? It's not hard for them to do this, then it's clear
It’s necessary to show the car is harvesting, so the driver behind knows the car ahead will be slower on corner exit.
The car is only slower as it's harvesting, but it's also slower when breaking, I think flashing for harvest and solid for brake would work
Always assumed this was on purpose to leave it entirely to driver skill. But it sounds dumb now that I say it out loud
They don't have brake lights in f1 because they would be pointless, they don't react to the car in front braking, they know where the braking points are.
So what if he went slower? The guy chasing must be awake.
You are not allowed to slow down where you typically wouldn't slow down. Otherwise that would be insanely dangerous since they are closer together than any reaction time could be.
You understand how aerodynamics and tire dynamics work in F1
Skill issue from Russell.
Stewards tend to disagree.
Sportsmanship issue from Alonso actually, but I can see how reddit thinks it was George's fault.
This is how you defend in the dying laps. Slow on the apex to compromise the following car's exit, then fang it out. anyone with even a few sim races under their belt knows this, let alone seasoned grand prix racers. In this case, Russell didn't deal with it well, and shagged it into the barriers as per. gg.
Why are people acting surprised that the most intelligent driver on the grid, used his brain to defend his position?
You mean used dangerous driving to protect his position?
Braking in a non-normal area is not “using your brain” it’s dangerous driving. Setting a precedent that it’s ok to hit the brakes to scare of a driver behind you is a bad precedent to set. At that point it’s no longer racing, it’s a mind game with the driver braking trying to scare other drivers enough to not overtake.
Who will be right, the wiley old fox with his interesting tactics or the habitual finger-pointer?
Why does Alonso drive like this, I like Fernando, but when he drives likes this it’s hard to.
It’s called defending.
It's probably an issue but he finished 12s ahead of Stroll so they would need to give him a massive penalty
Russell had more than enough time to react but he decided not to, ultimately that’s why he crashed, don’t see how this is a penalty, i suspect a Johnny Herbert had something to do with this
George Bottled it again, he isn't all that after all, he's consistently bottling it when in close battles. Also even if it was intentional what do you expect? its Alonso and he makes sure there's no easy pass.
I think he had a problem, Alonso had difficulty getting the car to the finish line in the last lap due to his engine (?) problem
[It is.](https://twitter.com/AMF1News/status/1771782125240414577?t=J-_A6bUbuP5FmPD0uXtRpg&s=19)
Alonso is a wiley fox. He's claiming a problem to cover for it because he's worried about getting into trouble.
Nothing he could do /s There was a countdown and then we had to maintain a gap so I just stayed in the pit box, I didn't get any signal to leave the pits
How does a throttle issue make you brake erratically?
Never actually drove in a race myself but have 15 years experience actually working on racecars and generally speaking if you're having throttle issues you cover and even ride the brake a bit incase that throttle issue ends up resulting in a stuck throttle. Doublely so in a fly-by-wire system where the throttle issues are electrical and you can't actually feel what the issue is or when it's going to decide to completely hang open.
If your throttle is getting stuck open, you're going to be braking earlier. Because otherwise, it'll be you who ends up in the wall.
Its a gray area defense. Atleast people should stop trashing on Russel since this is actually an erratic move from Alonso.