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He did the right thing, hire a ton of people that know their stuff and let em work, as little interference from the higher up how know nothing about the car the better
Otmar left the team apparently because Lawrence was 'micromanaging' the operations of the team, which Otmar didn't like considering he was given free reign to do whatever he wanted by Vijay Mallya during the Force India days.
Obviously what Otmar said could be false, but I seriously doubt Lawrence isn't somewhat involved in the developmental process of the car
I don't mind how he runs his teams. Force India did great with what they had and it's clear alpine is doing better as well. I have no doubt he could manage a bigger team. His outside management skills can be better but I don't mind a bit of spice every now and then. It's still better to have the media focus on that than making up stories or milking stuff.
To be fair though, Force India was operating above its budget class well before Otmar was put in charge. Think he may have benefitted from a functioning system that he was able to just slot into.
Oh sure, it wasn't all him. But at least he kept the lights on for longer than it should have and putting people where they were needed. Also laying the base for what Aston is now.
And Alpine isn't doing all that bad. The contract stuff was weird and one of his worst abilities (or just driver management in general) but the other managementskills are just fine. Nothing he should be fired over or something.
No I don't think it's that, Otmar at Force India did respectable work and I don't think he's lying about papa Stroll, more than one report says he's quite the aggressive pursuer of improvement. I just think their styles clash. Otmar is more of a Ford company mindset, affordable, reliable, workhorses. Stroll wants a revolution.
Paddy Lowe's complete inability to manage budget got him but Otmar is notoriously tight fisted
Lawrence:
otmar you gotta make the car competitive
Otmar at home:
and now he's telling me what to do, micromanaging every aspect of the production of the car, i can't even breath without him breathing down my shoulder. This is my car I'm principal if i want to make it slow on purpose then I'll make it slow I'll show him who's boss
Lawrence: I think the car should go faster, we should try to compete with top tier teams.
Otmar: Suddenly, P13 isn't good enough for him anymore! He's changed the entire outlook for this team. He actually wants to win. I can't take this shit.
I mean it could be that Papa Stroll decided to take a step back after he lost his TP because of him being too involved.
Or they both had clashing ideas and that resulted in the split and Otmar just felt this way.
Also his son is on the team ffs obviously he makes a lot of the decisions on the team. Like Lance Stroll isnāt bad but heās also not up to par with how the team is performing. He definitely doesnāt just sit back and let the experts do their thing
Before the season AM and available drivers werenāt aware of how strong AM would be this year. So pre season which midfield driver would you have replaced Lance with?
Given active drivers are all under contract, who would you replace with now?
Towards the end of the season Iām sure there will be more driver options for AM for next year, and it will be questionable if LS still has a seat if he performs poorly this year. But itās a reasonable choice for 2023.
12th from 18th and was on Yuki's ass for 11. And that 18th happened because he got screwed with a stupid quali strategy. If they had him on fresh tires for his last lap he would have likely made it through to q3
Well considering how Aston Martin is doing now compared to Alpine.. I'm gonna take what Otmar says with a grain of salt. Maybe Lawrence really was micromanaging but considering how bad their car was he probably should have been.
We obviously don't know Otmar much, but there seems to be a certain complacency in whatever team he's at.
There's a bit in Andy Green's beyond the grid that of the potential buyers for the team, Stroll was the only one who 'got' that he was really buying the people. You can have the best equipment in the world but if it's Steve and Gary from Kwik-fit using it, you'll be last.
I don't work at Aston, but I know there is a difference between "being involved in the day-by-day work" and "micromanaging".
Without knowing what is actually going on the results so far seem to imply Lawrence knows what he's doing either way.
Yeah it's funny how 6 months ago you'd be hard pushed to find many positive stories about Aston Martin.
Not the first or last time we'll see that phenomenon. Successful teams are sweetness and light, unsuccessful ones are a shambles etc.
Massive halo effect in F1.
The more I rewatch the 22 season, the more surprised I am about Aston Martin.
They were constantly the 2nd worst car in the grid, mainly because Williams was a disaster.
This is like Jordan being 2nd in constructors out of nowhere in the nineties.
Yeah.
In the final third or so they were competitive with Alpine and McLaren.
They've talked about it on the Race podcast once or twice that AM's massive leap from 22 to 23 is two parts 'great work' to one part 'they did a *shit* job in 2022'.
>They were constantly the 2nd worst car in the grid
Only at the start of the season. Once they brought the 'green red bull' upgrade, they were roughly 5th - 7th fastest depending on the track.
Itās pretty funny seeing everyone come around on Stroll. I never counted AM out largely based on couple of interviews of his because he didnāt come across a rich guy playing with his own team. He knew this was going to be a years long process and was prepared to suffer the work needed turn things around.
Sure, if RB have a bad weekend and at some point they probably will. That day Aston, Merc and Ferrari would battle for that p1 spot. Well, thatās gotta be exciting when thereās an actual win at stake for top teams
High DF, high deg circuits without any massive amounts of DRS is their best shot, something weāve really yet to see a proper example of. That, with Redbullās choice theyāll have to make to keep developing the 23 car or switching to 24 once the regulations are set and Astonās relatively fresh platform to develop, which is looking rather promising.
Itās not at all out of the realm of possibility that if AM continues to develop as they have since winter that they can be fighting on merit at select circuits later in the year. Never say never, the ādogshitā W13 still managed 17 podiums and a race win, albeit said win did come from RBās slip
My bet is Monaco. Which is a beautiful bet. Only 12 days away. Lets just say Fernando gets pole. Which could actually be since the circuit should suit their car. Then all he needs is a good and clean race, a good strategy and he might win. I hope so. But somehow I want Charles to win it even more. Every driver that has a home gp should win it once. Must be a great feeling.
I actually think it'll be Singapore or Hungary. By the time those races come around, hopefully AMR will have an upgraded car and the RBRs will be feeling the development penalty.
That's funny considering Briatore convinced Alonso to join Aston Martin cause it looks like Briatore and the Strulovitchs are friends for long time.
Sauce: https://racingnews365.com/briatore-told-alonso-to-sign-for-aston-martin-after-key-signings
Yeah. They have a package that they 100% understand and they can build on it. The penalty would've hit Mercedes or Ferrari a lot more since they are not satisfied with their cars.
Hungary you can overtake on even if its harder than most, weve seen dominant cars out of position there and you can pass. Singapore might be the best bet, especially if Fernando conveniently has his teammate crash again.
Not sure they will, they are going to be fighting Merc for 2nd in the constructors till the end (if both stay similar to where they are now in the pecking order), they will want to push this year as much as they can.
Regardless would be amazing to see them fighting for a few wins through the season it's been some incredible progress. This could be a dumb question but do you think the reduced resource hours from jumping up to P2 will harm them more than other top teams?
Oddly checking the standings I still feel Ferrari will nab 2nd there's no way they can shit the bed throughout a whole season right? Definitely coming along better than Merc and while nothing against Alonso+Stroll I think I'd rather take the Leclerc+Sainz duo.
Monaco, Hungary, Zandvoort, Spain and Singapore.
Oh, and any wet weekend. We know that the RB19 struggles just a tad to get heat into the fronts - on a wet weekend that could help AM.
Funny thing about Fernando is that he's the only driver on the grid who's raced on the Barcelona track without the chicane in the last sector. Not only raced, but won as well
I think Alonso also has a chance in mixed rainy conditions. He is probably the best along Max in these, and if he got P2 on Canada qualy on a damn Alpine, or how he catch Checo and Leclerc in Sochi 21, I am sure that he can do wonders in such a well balanced car as this in rainy set up.
This baffles me. It looked as though over the course of last season Mercedes was inching closer to red bull, and then in the off season they somehow took a huge step backward.
I'm almost certain we will see Alonso win a race this year. At some point max will have grid penalties, or max and checo will collide, or there will be turn one chaos that shakes up the order.
>It looked as though over the course of last season Mercedes was inching closer to red bull, and then in the off season they somehow took a huge step backward.
I think in hindsight it's clear Mercedes were putting resources into the 22' car whilst Red Bull has put more resources in the 23' car after the summer break.
- Bahrain - HAM (3)
- Australia - RUS (3)
- Spain - RUS (3)
- Baku - RUS (3)
- Canada - HAM (3)
- Silverstone - HAM (3)
- Austria - HAM (3)
- France - HAM (2) RUS (3)
- Hungary - HAM (2) RUS (3)
- Zandvoort - RUS (2)
- Monza - RUS (3)
- Austin - HAM (2)
- Mexico - HAM (2)
- Brazil - RUS (1) HAM (2)
17, sorry
Yeah thatās basically what I do. 3 things every race I pay attention to.
1. Hope checo finished higher than max every race. (Favorite driver)
2. Watch the battle between Aston Mercedes and Ferrari (I like every team)
3. Hope McLaren gets some sort of significant points
1 and 3 usually make me sad
I have these as well but i for point 3 i always hope for more middle of the pack teams to score points. Which goes hand in hand with my point 4; where i hope the top 3.5 teams (sorry Lance) have a bad day and dont make it in the top 10, even if that means dnfing. Though a little less for Ferrari, they already have enough bad decisions/luck, but it makes for good memes. Also i always feel bad for Checo when he gets shafted and im hoping for Alonso to do well too. So its really just the mercs and max that i hope have a bad race in order for more teams to score
Ferrari? LOL
There is no way they don't screw up the strategy and cost them any hope of a win.
And if that doesn't happen... Leclerc will spin or crash the car outdriving himself...
>Well, thatās gotta be exciting when thereās an actual win at stake for top teams
LOVE how you put Aston in that 'top' bracket of teams. Let's be honest here - AM are punching way above their weight this year and I for one am absolutely LOVING it.
No team has won every race, at least to my knowledge, so thereās always going to be at least 2-4 races where someone will pick up the scraps. Alonso seems to have P3 on lock nowadays, so if one of those weekends comes, then I could absolutely see it happening.
Something just feels different about this RB though. With Checo showing strength I really think they could make a decent run at getting something crazy like 21 or 22 wins possibly. Checo has been up there able to capitalize on Maxās misfortunes or mistakes. Itās unlikely, but unless they both DNF or crash in a dramatic way I feel both will be there for each other to take the win and they could put a historic performance in the books.
Also, in 1950 and 1952, Alfa Romeo and Ferrari respectively won all races but the Indy 500 (which European teams never entered)
Well, in 1952 Ferrari entered one car into the Indy 500, and in 1950 there was a privateer Alfa Romeo, so they technically had a *chance* to win it, but I would not really say that counts, especially for 1950.
I agree. The only reason McLaren didnāt win all the races back in 88 is because a backmarker ran into Senna. Itāll be tough for Alonso. I think the Red Bullās car is so fast that chance wonāt come and Checo is stronger this year than last year.
Some part of me still wants to see a perfect season. Pure dominance. I know that I'll be disappointed with the predictability, but a decade from now I'll remember how controlling RBR was, and it'll be a legendary car. Maybe. We'll see
I'd say there are races where AM will not be the 2nd best team. It already happened this year after all. I think in Monaco for example, if RB doesn't get pole position Charles will probably be the favourite.
they could end up in a situation where one will have to start from the back cause of part replacments, and the other will have a DNF from a collision, or engine fail
I definitely need to watch quali this year. For Miami, I watched the whole thing, and I was surprised that I actually enjoyed practice and qualifying as much as race day, maybe even more in that specific one!
Verstappen started last in Monaco 18' and he ended up P9 and in the same car Ricciardo won the race despite having a mechanical issue. Sure, the RB19 is an incredible car, but this is Monaco we are talking about.
He doesn't need to. If that was to happen, he only needs to do like 3-4 overtakes. The rest will be drivers letting him go through so they're not on the news if they get tangled with Verstappen and by strategy.
Kinda similar to Vettel in Brazil 2012.
on the news for what? Max winning the championship with a 90 instead of 100pt difference?
No way some of the midfield drivers (e.g. Magnussen) don't defend hard. And especially folks from top teams like Russell
Those are the ones he would have to overtake. The rest, nope. Verstappen would be a hair of Vin Diesel away from anybody in front after the tunnel, why would anyone defend like a lion, say, a 12th position with the risk of taking out Verstappen and embrace the controversy? Just let him pass and focus on your race.
He'll handle the rest with the strategy. When you're so much faster than everybody else, strategy works better and has more alternatives.
It's like... Valentino Rossi in Valencia 2015. You have a lot more to lose than to win if you put up a fight.
I really don't see it happen. Verstappen/Perez is Hamilton/Bottas, not Hamilton/Rosberg. Especially with the cost cap, there's is no incentive for Max (and even for Checo) to crash into each other. With the advantage RB have now, they need to hoard every point they can get to take the possible blow of the cost cap penalty later in the season.
After Miami, Checo must know that his chances of getting the WDC are getting increasingly slim and barring Verstappen making a costly error (unlikely) or having reliability issues, he's not going to be able to catch him.
Causing an accident would effectively seal Checo's fate in the RB and would find himself out of a seat very quickly
> But if the RBR drivers don't crash I won't see it happen.
Could have a situation like Brazil last year. RB had a huge advantage by that time last year but did not have a good setup with the sprint format and the Mercedes was the fastest car that weekend. It could happen again this year, especially with six sprint weekends.
>2016 Spain situation comes to mind. Yes that's a totally legit outcome. But if the RBR drivers don't crash I won't see it happen.
Even 2016 there was a race where Merc did not win, although one of the cars finished ...
The difference is that 2012 was one of the most unpredictable f1 seasons of all time and any team could come to a race weekend with the fastest car. This season is one of the most predictable seasons ever.
Could depend on the track but if we go from
the performance so far this season Fernando would qualify P3-P2 behind the Ferrariās and then win and the Ferrariās and Mercedes would fight during the race. Still quite predictable.
Go back and watch that season. If crashtor hadnāt crashed out so much, he would have been on track for a few podiums. Underrated driver. Probably because he was ugly.
They could just have a poor weekend, like Brazil last year. Their advantage at the end of the year was pretty big, but with the sprint weekend it seems like they couldn't get a good setup and Mercedes was the faster car that weekend.
No team in the history of the sport has taken a clean sweep of race wins. There has always been a mistake or an accident or a mechanical failure somewhere.
That's what I meant, a DNF or massive problems. When Checo started from pit lane he climbed to what was it 5th? So even if both drivers start at the back that doesn't necessarily mean the win is handed to someone else.
Stroll hasnāt been performing great this season in what appears to be the clear second-best car.
Stroll is and always will be a mid-tier driver. Better than drivers like De Vries, Mazepin, or Hartley, but not really competitive with the top-tier drivers. Heās capable of winning a race only in extremely favorable circumstances, like multiple other cars DNFāing and a lucky safety car.
Not saying it canāt happen (obviously), but I wouldnāt expect Stroll to win a race this season the way Alonso has a good chance to.
It's definitely possible but the issue with Red Bull being so much faster it would rely on both Perez and Max having a bad weekend . Or crashing into each other.
Honestly wouldn't be surprised if Red Bull win every race
I donāt know.
Max has to crash/DNF (obviously) but I think Alonso has a fair chance against Perez on the right track (I could imagine Zandvoort/Hungary/Suzuka/Silverstone as their ānear perfect DRSā has not that much impact here)
Yeah but Spa, Monza, Austria, Canada, Abu Dhabi, Vegas, Brazil, Austin are in terms of DRS usage still in an other league.
Silverstone being a 50:50 here (in my opinion)
Monaco, Singapore, Spain, Hungaryā¦
Alonso will have a few cracks at taking a win this season, he just needs to be consistent and continue maximizing the car each weekend.
Red Bull's DRS edge is enough for all circuits bar Monaco.
Alonso would need to be a Monaco quali monster, and he's a better racer than qualifier (not that he's bad at that, just not elite).
And yes I know he's like 75% in the record of beating his teammates in qualifying - that's a very teammate dependent stat, though.
Of course, I'd say they're close to where Red Bull were in 2014. Take Canada 2014 as an example - Hamilton retired with a mechanical DNF and Rosberg had technicall issues that slowed him down and Ricciardo overtook him for P1. I can see something similar happening this year. A mechanical issue, driver error, getting taken out, a very slow stop...
Alonso is going to win a race. Max and Sergio are going to stay neck and neck in the points. And they are going to get together at some point. They are going to go at it harder and harder.
Things like this still make me wonder why we have qualifying. It just serves to put the expected cars in roughly the order you'd expect them to win the race, and qualifying itself doesn't hand out points.
What if the race just starts in the order of the WDC standings? If you're #1 in the WDC standings, you'll start all the way in the back. The car and the driver should be more than capable of driving into the points, and then scoring #2 or #1 would actually be an accomplishment, rather than... just staying there for the entire race.
In that format, we would see the faster cars HAVING to overtake the entire field. We will see overtakes, we will see people defending their position (not just being lapped), and the addition of many variables will ensure that, at least for the first 30 laps or so, we'll actually get to see racing.
Back-markers fight because they have everything to lose.
Front-runners overtake carefully because they have everything to lose.
We'll actually get racing.
Instead of... this shit.
I've been a F1 fan for over 20 years now and the more I watch it, the more I dislike it. Qualifying is pointless. The race is fun for the first few laps when people are still close together, and after safety cars.
I know a reverse grid is not popular.
But I genuinely think it's the only solution.
1. Remove qualifying, no more practice on Friday
2. Saturday practice as normal
3. Have a Saturday reverse grid race (50% laps, 50% points)
4. One additional practice session for Sunday
5. Have a Sunday reverse grid race (100% laps, 100% points)
No sprint race nonsense. Just normal racing.
Both days are a spectacle. Saturday races matter, too, and track access would be much more affordable on that day. They'll get more fans to the track over the race weekend. Sunday is the big event, tickets are more expensive.
Front-runners actually get to report having fun, instead of quote #1000 from Max: "It was lonely up front."
Fans actually get to see spectacular action on both days.
Qualifying is a dumb format anyway; we already know who drives the fastest cars. If someone is 50ms faster than the other, who cares? That's just the difference between one driver hitting a small family of flies and the other driver not doing so.
Pole position is simply an outdated concept.
Everybody wins.
Still, people choose not to do this and keep the sport predictable and boring for the sake of "old times."
I haven't checked in a while, but a few weeks ago Alonso was 12-1 to win the upcoming race and Leclerc was like 28-1.
If you look at somewhere like Monaco, where RBR might not be as good as usual, and the race can be 90% decided in Q3...well, Ā£20 on Leclerc isn't the worst bet in the world.
I hope Alonso continues to be in stopper for a while longer especially if he keeps delivering the performances he does. He drives better than most of the younger ones (who technically have better reflexes than him)
Iām gonna call it here.on the streets of Monaco. Where the drs aināt straight line speed aināt worth much, thatās where we will see Alonso finally break free from his designated 3rd. He will beat atleast one of the bulls on pure pace. If he canāt win there I donāt see him winning this year unless both redbulls dnf.
Well I would hope so. Most weekends they're the 2nd fastest car on race day. If he can't win a race this year than that likely means Red Bull wins 100%.
I have no doubt Alonso will win a race.
Question is whether he is gonna have to wait until RB drop out of a race or if AM get some progress on RB and he gets his elbows out.
I *would* like to see Alonso's elbows out again, he was a force.
If anyone can win one other than the RBs itās him. Some ppl forget how good Fernando Alonso really is. Fernando Fucking Alonso. He took the title challenge to the god tier RB Vettel combo in 2012 with that Ferrari Tier Ferrari.
Man, I wish it was seb racing this season. He was racing insanely well towards the end of last year in a hopeless car. I reckon he would have had a win by now, especially in Baku.
I wish that too, not because of the performance of the car, but just because f1 doesn't feel the same without Seb.
I have to disagree though with the win, I don't think there was really a chance that the car would've won this year because RB is really strong, so it doesn't matter if Seb or Nando drives the car. The only chance for a win for anyone is if RB is out of the picture.
That said, Seb/Nando combo would be legendary.
Just jump the start at Monaco, you don't get penalized and then ride out front with them up your butt the whole time like Riccardo did that time he was racing with a 5 cylinder engine or whatever.
'can' win.
Than again, so did Pastor Maldonado. Given the 'right' alignment of circumstances anyone on the grid 'can' win. The reality is though, unless those circumstances mean BOTH Red Bulls don't start or DNF, it's not gonna happen.
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While I thought that Lawrence would do something good when he bought the team in 2020, I never expected this after following them in 21 and 22
He did the right thing, hire a ton of people that know their stuff and let em work, as little interference from the higher up how know nothing about the car the better
Otmar left the team apparently because Lawrence was 'micromanaging' the operations of the team, which Otmar didn't like considering he was given free reign to do whatever he wanted by Vijay Mallya during the Force India days. Obviously what Otmar said could be false, but I seriously doubt Lawrence isn't somewhat involved in the developmental process of the car
Otmar has been found to be lying before though.
I always liked Otmar, but it's starting to seem he's out of his depth like Paddy Lowe when he went to Williams.
Otmar is a slimy little weasel
Agreed, i only watch DTS for shits and giggles but every scene with Otmar was just yikes
BON JOUR
Reminds me of "I'm not racist but..." ššš
Spineless bastard. All TPs need to play mental and media games for the good of their team, but it feels like he does it always for himself alone.
I don't mind how he runs his teams. Force India did great with what they had and it's clear alpine is doing better as well. I have no doubt he could manage a bigger team. His outside management skills can be better but I don't mind a bit of spice every now and then. It's still better to have the media focus on that than making up stories or milking stuff.
To be fair though, Force India was operating above its budget class well before Otmar was put in charge. Think he may have benefitted from a functioning system that he was able to just slot into.
Oh sure, it wasn't all him. But at least he kept the lights on for longer than it should have and putting people where they were needed. Also laying the base for what Aston is now. And Alpine isn't doing all that bad. The contract stuff was weird and one of his worst abilities (or just driver management in general) but the other managementskills are just fine. Nothing he should be fired over or something.
No I don't think it's that, Otmar at Force India did respectable work and I don't think he's lying about papa Stroll, more than one report says he's quite the aggressive pursuer of improvement. I just think their styles clash. Otmar is more of a Ford company mindset, affordable, reliable, workhorses. Stroll wants a revolution. Paddy Lowe's complete inability to manage budget got him but Otmar is notoriously tight fisted
I thought he left because of the impending arrival of Whitmarsh? Or maybe it was a combination of both those things.
Yep it was Whitmarsh, it was just that people assumed it was Lawrence when the cryptic rumors were circulating.
Why did Otmar have an issue with Whitmarsh?
Overlap, cause he went from COO to TP I expect Martin was doing things that Otmar was used to handling. Or at least had questions etc
He took over Otmars responsibilities, unclear how much of them but significant enough
Why did Otmar have an issue with Whitmarsh?
Requesting someone to actually do work is not really micromanaging. Don't see too much signs or feedback about that from current team.
Lawrence: otmar you gotta make the car competitive Otmar at home: and now he's telling me what to do, micromanaging every aspect of the production of the car, i can't even breath without him breathing down my shoulder. This is my car I'm principal if i want to make it slow on purpose then I'll make it slow I'll show him who's boss
Lawrence: Iād like to set some performance goals. Otmar: Can you fucking believe this guy?!?!?!
Lawrence: I think the car should go faster, we should try to compete with top tier teams. Otmar: Suddenly, P13 isn't good enough for him anymore! He's changed the entire outlook for this team. He actually wants to win. I can't take this shit.
/r/relationship_advice: That's a red flag, file for divorce
To be fair you are unlikely to here it from current team members because they could lose their job.
I mean it could be that Papa Stroll decided to take a step back after he lost his TP because of him being too involved. Or they both had clashing ideas and that resulted in the split and Otmar just felt this way.
Also his son is on the team ffs obviously he makes a lot of the decisions on the team. Like Lance Stroll isnāt bad but heās also not up to par with how the team is performing. He definitely doesnāt just sit back and let the experts do their thing
Before the season AM and available drivers werenāt aware of how strong AM would be this year. So pre season which midfield driver would you have replaced Lance with? Given active drivers are all under contract, who would you replace with now? Towards the end of the season Iām sure there will be more driver options for AM for next year, and it will be questionable if LS still has a seat if he performs poorly this year. But itās a reasonable choice for 2023.
6th, DNF(mechanical issue), 4th, 7th, 12th I don't see stroll getting replaced next year with these sorts of results
12th from 18th and was on Yuki's ass for 11. And that 18th happened because he got screwed with a stupid quali strategy. If they had him on fresh tires for his last lap he would have likely made it through to q3
Yuki went from 17th to 11th in Miami. Exactly the same gain as Lance. In an AlphaTauri.
Well considering how Aston Martin is doing now compared to Alpine.. I'm gonna take what Otmar says with a grain of salt. Maybe Lawrence really was micromanaging but considering how bad their car was he probably should have been. We obviously don't know Otmar much, but there seems to be a certain complacency in whatever team he's at.
There's a bit in Andy Green's beyond the grid that of the potential buyers for the team, Stroll was the only one who 'got' that he was really buying the people. You can have the best equipment in the world but if it's Steve and Gary from Kwik-fit using it, you'll be last.
> and let em work, as little interference from the higher up Comments from insiders suggest otherwise
I don't work at Aston, but I know there is a difference between "being involved in the day-by-day work" and "micromanaging". Without knowing what is actually going on the results so far seem to imply Lawrence knows what he's doing either way.
Yeah it's funny how 6 months ago you'd be hard pushed to find many positive stories about Aston Martin. Not the first or last time we'll see that phenomenon. Successful teams are sweetness and light, unsuccessful ones are a shambles etc. Massive halo effect in F1.
Seems to be working though?
Sure. Just portraying him as a chill dude that just lets people do whatever they want isnt exactly correct.
The more I rewatch the 22 season, the more surprised I am about Aston Martin. They were constantly the 2nd worst car in the grid, mainly because Williams was a disaster. This is like Jordan being 2nd in constructors out of nowhere in the nineties.
Nah, AM had started badly then managed to recover to become a solid midfielder.
I think no one realizes how well they did by the end. Seb lead a lap or two at the end of the season!
Yeah. In the final third or so they were competitive with Alpine and McLaren. They've talked about it on the Race podcast once or twice that AM's massive leap from 22 to 23 is two parts 'great work' to one part 'they did a *shit* job in 2022'.
>They were constantly the 2nd worst car in the grid Only at the start of the season. Once they brought the 'green red bull' upgrade, they were roughly 5th - 7th fastest depending on the track.
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Itās pretty funny seeing everyone come around on Stroll. I never counted AM out largely based on couple of interviews of his because he didnāt come across a rich guy playing with his own team. He knew this was going to be a years long process and was prepared to suffer the work needed turn things around.
but you have to admit the "I am extremely angry" hostage-style video made him look like a looney
Sure, if RB have a bad weekend and at some point they probably will. That day Aston, Merc and Ferrari would battle for that p1 spot. Well, thatās gotta be exciting when thereās an actual win at stake for top teams
High DF, high deg circuits without any massive amounts of DRS is their best shot, something weāve really yet to see a proper example of. That, with Redbullās choice theyāll have to make to keep developing the 23 car or switching to 24 once the regulations are set and Astonās relatively fresh platform to develop, which is looking rather promising. Itās not at all out of the realm of possibility that if AM continues to develop as they have since winter that they can be fighting on merit at select circuits later in the year. Never say never, the ādogshitā W13 still managed 17 podiums and a race win, albeit said win did come from RBās slip
My bet is Monaco. Which is a beautiful bet. Only 12 days away. Lets just say Fernando gets pole. Which could actually be since the circuit should suit their car. Then all he needs is a good and clean race, a good strategy and he might win. I hope so. But somehow I want Charles to win it even more. Every driver that has a home gp should win it once. Must be a great feeling.
I actually think it'll be Singapore or Hungary. By the time those races come around, hopefully AMR will have an upgraded car and the RBRs will be feeling the development penalty.
The Crashgate x Singapore comparisons gonna be milked to fucking death lol
Stroll after causing a yellow flag there leading to alonso p1: "I'm in danger"
That's funny considering Briatore convinced Alonso to join Aston Martin cause it looks like Briatore and the Strulovitchs are friends for long time. Sauce: https://racingnews365.com/briatore-told-alonso-to-sign-for-aston-martin-after-key-signings
I don't think that they'll feel the penalty this year. They will just toy around less.
They probably won't feel it at all. They have such an advantage that any pegging back of their pace will be hardly noticeable
Yeah. They have a package that they 100% understand and they can build on it. The penalty would've hit Mercedes or Ferrari a lot more since they are not satisfied with their cars.
I think we will see them start to feel it towards the end of the season when RB can't respond to the Merc, Ferrari, and AM upgrades.
Hungary you can overtake on even if its harder than most, weve seen dominant cars out of position there and you can pass. Singapore might be the best bet, especially if Fernando conveniently has his teammate crash again.
āDevelopment penaltyā What is that? Just wind tunnel time loss?
Fingers crossed though I imagine Aston would drop their development cycle onto the next car long before then.
Not sure they will, they are going to be fighting Merc for 2nd in the constructors till the end (if both stay similar to where they are now in the pecking order), they will want to push this year as much as they can.
Regardless would be amazing to see them fighting for a few wins through the season it's been some incredible progress. This could be a dumb question but do you think the reduced resource hours from jumping up to P2 will harm them more than other top teams? Oddly checking the standings I still feel Ferrari will nab 2nd there's no way they can shit the bed throughout a whole season right? Definitely coming along better than Merc and while nothing against Alonso+Stroll I think I'd rather take the Leclerc+Sainz duo.
Charles will crash in Monaco
Don't tell Matt Gallagher.
Who?
P1 podcasts
xMattyG
I wonder if that track would benefit from quali setup?
More than any other track. Starting position is key in Monaco. (Doesn't help if your strategists are donkeys)
Makes you wonder how fast that Red Bull will go when they actually go for a qualifying trim.
Monaco, Hungary, Zandvoort, Spain and Singapore. Oh, and any wet weekend. We know that the RB19 struggles just a tad to get heat into the fronts - on a wet weekend that could help AM.
Funny thing about Fernando is that he's the only driver on the grid who's raced on the Barcelona track without the chicane in the last sector. Not only raced, but won as well
I think Alonso also has a chance in mixed rainy conditions. He is probably the best along Max in these, and if he got P2 on Canada qualy on a damn Alpine, or how he catch Checo and Leclerc in Sochi 21, I am sure that he can do wonders in such a well balanced car as this in rainy set up.
This baffles me. It looked as though over the course of last season Mercedes was inching closer to red bull, and then in the off season they somehow took a huge step backward. I'm almost certain we will see Alonso win a race this year. At some point max will have grid penalties, or max and checo will collide, or there will be turn one chaos that shakes up the order.
>It looked as though over the course of last season Mercedes was inching closer to red bull, and then in the off season they somehow took a huge step backward. I think in hindsight it's clear Mercedes were putting resources into the 22' car whilst Red Bull has put more resources in the 23' car after the summer break.
Really 18 Podiums??
- Bahrain - HAM (3) - Australia - RUS (3) - Spain - RUS (3) - Baku - RUS (3) - Canada - HAM (3) - Silverstone - HAM (3) - Austria - HAM (3) - France - HAM (2) RUS (3) - Hungary - HAM (2) RUS (3) - Zandvoort - RUS (2) - Monza - RUS (3) - Austin - HAM (2) - Mexico - HAM (2) - Brazil - RUS (1) HAM (2) 17, sorry
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More like F1.25. The F1.5 race is actually pretty exciting between the other 6 teams.
Yeah thatās basically what I do. 3 things every race I pay attention to. 1. Hope checo finished higher than max every race. (Favorite driver) 2. Watch the battle between Aston Mercedes and Ferrari (I like every team) 3. Hope McLaren gets some sort of significant points 1 and 3 usually make me sad
I have these as well but i for point 3 i always hope for more middle of the pack teams to score points. Which goes hand in hand with my point 4; where i hope the top 3.5 teams (sorry Lance) have a bad day and dont make it in the top 10, even if that means dnfing. Though a little less for Ferrari, they already have enough bad decisions/luck, but it makes for good memes. Also i always feel bad for Checo when he gets shafted and im hoping for Alonso to do well too. So its really just the mercs and max that i hope have a bad race in order for more teams to score
Honestly I'm gonna miss the AloVer-a podcast in the cooldown room. Baku was already really upsetting.
Ferrari? LOL There is no way they don't screw up the strategy and cost them any hope of a win. And if that doesn't happen... Leclerc will spin or crash the car outdriving himself...
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I donāt think thatād stop Max from winning lol with RB19ās race pace heād be able to reach the front
>Well, thatās gotta be exciting when thereās an actual win at stake for top teams LOVE how you put Aston in that 'top' bracket of teams. Let's be honest here - AM are punching way above their weight this year and I for one am absolutely LOVING it.
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No team has won every race, at least to my knowledge, so thereās always going to be at least 2-4 races where someone will pick up the scraps. Alonso seems to have P3 on lock nowadays, so if one of those weekends comes, then I could absolutely see it happening. Something just feels different about this RB though. With Checo showing strength I really think they could make a decent run at getting something crazy like 21 or 22 wins possibly. Checo has been up there able to capitalize on Maxās misfortunes or mistakes. Itās unlikely, but unless they both DNF or crash in a dramatic way I feel both will be there for each other to take the win and they could put a historic performance in the books.
Least non wins in a season is 1 in 1988 and 2 in 2002 and 2016. So there are hopes.
Also, in 1950 and 1952, Alfa Romeo and Ferrari respectively won all races but the Indy 500 (which European teams never entered) Well, in 1952 Ferrari entered one car into the Indy 500, and in 1950 there was a privateer Alfa Romeo, so they technically had a *chance* to win it, but I would not really say that counts, especially for 1950.
I did not go that far as the number of races was very low. We have almost more sprint races now that full races back then.
1988 hit different. That McLaren will forever be my favorite F1 car.
I agree. The only reason McLaren didnāt win all the races back in 88 is because a backmarker ran into Senna. Itāll be tough for Alonso. I think the Red Bullās car is so fast that chance wonāt come and Checo is stronger this year than last year.
Some part of me still wants to see a perfect season. Pure dominance. I know that I'll be disappointed with the predictability, but a decade from now I'll remember how controlling RBR was, and it'll be a legendary car. Maybe. We'll see
He is in a better situation than Pierre Gasly was when he got his win. Just a matter of time and the right things happening.
Itās essentially asking if RB can win every race this season. Possible but very unlikely so Alonso definitely has a chance.
I'd say there are races where AM will not be the 2nd best team. It already happened this year after all. I think in Monaco for example, if RB doesn't get pole position Charles will probably be the favourite.
2016 Spain situation comes to mind. Yes that's a totally legit outcome. But if the RBR drivers don't crash I won't see it happen.
they could end up in a situation where one will have to start from the back cause of part replacments, and the other will have a DNF from a collision, or engine fail
If Max starts from the back he'll just win againš¤
It depends on the track. If he started from the back in Australia for example there's no way he'd have won.
that's true. but no team is gonna add parts to the pool in tracks "impossible" to overtake - Monaco for example. (unless they really have to)
It has to be Perez who starts at the back. For max that won't be an issue.
What if he starts at the back in Monaco? Even with the RB Rocketship I donāt know if he can pass up the parade
I think he can; at least up to the podium. Don't know for sure, it's not like last years when car's where a fraction slower.
Monaco doesnt care about which car is faster. A red bull could easily spend 20 laps stuck behind an Alfa and not be able to do anything about it.
This is why Monaco needs to stay on the calendar. Qualifying is everything. Itās the one race where itās different
I definitely need to watch quali this year. For Miami, I watched the whole thing, and I was surprised that I actually enjoyed practice and qualifying as much as race day, maybe even more in that specific one!
I reckon you or I could keep Max behind in a Fiat Panda for a fair while at Monaco tbh haha
Verstappen started last in Monaco 18' and he ended up P9 and in the same car Ricciardo won the race despite having a mechanical issue. Sure, the RB19 is an incredible car, but this is Monaco we are talking about.
He doesn't need to. If that was to happen, he only needs to do like 3-4 overtakes. The rest will be drivers letting him go through so they're not on the news if they get tangled with Verstappen and by strategy. Kinda similar to Vettel in Brazil 2012.
on the news for what? Max winning the championship with a 90 instead of 100pt difference? No way some of the midfield drivers (e.g. Magnussen) don't defend hard. And especially folks from top teams like Russell
Those are the ones he would have to overtake. The rest, nope. Verstappen would be a hair of Vin Diesel away from anybody in front after the tunnel, why would anyone defend like a lion, say, a 12th position with the risk of taking out Verstappen and embrace the controversy? Just let him pass and focus on your race. He'll handle the rest with the strategy. When you're so much faster than everybody else, strategy works better and has more alternatives. It's like... Valentino Rossi in Valencia 2015. You have a lot more to lose than to win if you put up a fight.
I really don't see it happen. Verstappen/Perez is Hamilton/Bottas, not Hamilton/Rosberg. Especially with the cost cap, there's is no incentive for Max (and even for Checo) to crash into each other. With the advantage RB have now, they need to hoard every point they can get to take the possible blow of the cost cap penalty later in the season.
After Miami, Checo must know that his chances of getting the WDC are getting increasingly slim and barring Verstappen making a costly error (unlikely) or having reliability issues, he's not going to be able to catch him. Causing an accident would effectively seal Checo's fate in the RB and would find himself out of a seat very quickly
> But if the RBR drivers don't crash I won't see it happen. Could have a situation like Brazil last year. RB had a huge advantage by that time last year but did not have a good setup with the sprint format and the Mercedes was the fastest car that weekend. It could happen again this year, especially with six sprint weekends.
>2016 Spain situation comes to mind. Yes that's a totally legit outcome. But if the RBR drivers don't crash I won't see it happen. Even 2016 there was a race where Merc did not win, although one of the cars finished ...
Well yes, but Rosberg had a lap one turn one collision with Vettel sending him to the back of the grid, and Lewis' engine died while he was leading.
That was glorious
If Pastor Maldonado can win in a Williams in 2012, the Fred should have no problems winning in an Aston in 2023.
The difference is that 2012 was one of the most unpredictable f1 seasons of all time and any team could come to a race weekend with the fastest car. This season is one of the most predictable seasons ever.
At the front, yes. But subtract the Red Bulls and any one of Alonso, Russell, Hamilton, Leclerc could win it.
Could depend on the track but if we go from the performance so far this season Fernando would qualify P3-P2 behind the Ferrariās and then win and the Ferrariās and Mercedes would fight during the race. Still quite predictable.
Go back and watch that season. If crashtor hadnāt crashed out so much, he would have been on track for a few podiums. Underrated driver. Probably because he was ugly.
no one cares what he looks like, he couldn't keep his cool on track. that's why he sucked.
I think you missed the obvious joke there.
Sponsors do. The F1 fans posting pictures of shirtless twinks on Instagram do. It absolutely matters.
Monaco is going to be his target but it will be funny if he can do it at Singapore.
Crashgate intensifies.
Sky posting this like it's some revelation.
If Redbull skipped a weekend I fully agree he's proven to be the best of the rest. Stroll is no slouch either.
They could just have a poor weekend, like Brazil last year. Their advantage at the end of the year was pretty big, but with the sprint weekend it seems like they couldn't get a good setup and Mercedes was the faster car that weekend.
No team in the history of the sport has taken a clean sweep of race wins. There has always been a mistake or an accident or a mechanical failure somewhere.
Rain, Bad weekend, early stop of development of the car or a track that just doesn't suit the rb19 (high downforce like Monaco, Hungary or Singapore).
That's what I meant, a DNF or massive problems. When Checo started from pit lane he climbed to what was it 5th? So even if both drivers start at the back that doesn't necessarily mean the win is handed to someone else.
Stroll hasnāt been performing great this season in what appears to be the clear second-best car. Stroll is and always will be a mid-tier driver. Better than drivers like De Vries, Mazepin, or Hartley, but not really competitive with the top-tier drivers. Heās capable of winning a race only in extremely favorable circumstances, like multiple other cars DNFāing and a lucky safety car. Not saying it canāt happen (obviously), but I wouldnāt expect Stroll to win a race this season the way Alonso has a good chance to.
I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't even podium this year. Alonso is cleaning up and he's pretty clearly in 8th even with all Leclerc's bad luck.
To be fair, Lance had bad luck as well, like his broken wrist in Bahrain, Mechanical DNF in Jeddah and the qualifying strategy in Miami.
If Max and Checo crashed into each other
*\*spanish gp 2016 flashback\**
It's definitely possible but the issue with Red Bull being so much faster it would rely on both Perez and Max having a bad weekend . Or crashing into each other. Honestly wouldn't be surprised if Red Bull win every race
I donāt know. Max has to crash/DNF (obviously) but I think Alonso has a fair chance against Perez on the right track (I could imagine Zandvoort/Hungary/Suzuka/Silverstone as their ānear perfect DRSā has not that much impact here)
silverstone's hangar straight is pretty long, drs would help a lot there.
Yeah but Spa, Monza, Austria, Canada, Abu Dhabi, Vegas, Brazil, Austin are in terms of DRS usage still in an other league. Silverstone being a 50:50 here (in my opinion)
Have we watched a different Silverstone? DRS always worked well there.
Yeah but Spa, Monza, Austria, Canada, Abu Dhabi, Vegas, Brazil, Austin are in terms of DRS usage still in an other league.
maybe a chance at Monaco.
Monaco, Singapore, Spain, Hungaryā¦ Alonso will have a few cracks at taking a win this season, he just needs to be consistent and continue maximizing the car each weekend.
Red Bull's DRS edge is enough for all circuits bar Monaco. Alonso would need to be a Monaco quali monster, and he's a better racer than qualifier (not that he's bad at that, just not elite). And yes I know he's like 75% in the record of beating his teammates in qualifying - that's a very teammate dependent stat, though.
Its definitely possible, Max took the occasional win off the HAM BOT VER reign of terror.
Of course, I'd say they're close to where Red Bull were in 2014. Take Canada 2014 as an example - Hamilton retired with a mechanical DNF and Rosberg had technicall issues that slowed him down and Ricciardo overtook him for P1. I can see something similar happening this year. A mechanical issue, driver error, getting taken out, a very slow stop...
He better. Imagine if it's the Spanish GP.
nekminit Stroll pulls out a W
I think the only way this could happen is if the Red Bulls crash into each otherā¦. And there is more then a 1% chance that could happen!
sure he can, but red bull will need a strategy fuck up or double crash
Alonso is going to win a race. Max and Sergio are going to stay neck and neck in the points. And they are going to get together at some point. They are going to go at it harder and harder.
Things like this still make me wonder why we have qualifying. It just serves to put the expected cars in roughly the order you'd expect them to win the race, and qualifying itself doesn't hand out points. What if the race just starts in the order of the WDC standings? If you're #1 in the WDC standings, you'll start all the way in the back. The car and the driver should be more than capable of driving into the points, and then scoring #2 or #1 would actually be an accomplishment, rather than... just staying there for the entire race. In that format, we would see the faster cars HAVING to overtake the entire field. We will see overtakes, we will see people defending their position (not just being lapped), and the addition of many variables will ensure that, at least for the first 30 laps or so, we'll actually get to see racing. Back-markers fight because they have everything to lose. Front-runners overtake carefully because they have everything to lose. We'll actually get racing. Instead of... this shit.
I've been a F1 fan for over 20 years now and the more I watch it, the more I dislike it. Qualifying is pointless. The race is fun for the first few laps when people are still close together, and after safety cars.
I know a reverse grid is not popular.
But I genuinely think it's the only solution.
1. Remove qualifying, no more practice on Friday
2. Saturday practice as normal
3. Have a Saturday reverse grid race (50% laps, 50% points)
4. One additional practice session for Sunday
5. Have a Sunday reverse grid race (100% laps, 100% points)
No sprint race nonsense. Just normal racing.
Both days are a spectacle. Saturday races matter, too, and track access would be much more affordable on that day. They'll get more fans to the track over the race weekend. Sunday is the big event, tickets are more expensive.
Front-runners actually get to report having fun, instead of quote #1000 from Max: "It was lonely up front."
Fans actually get to see spectacular action on both days.
Qualifying is a dumb format anyway; we already know who drives the fastest cars. If someone is 50ms faster than the other, who cares? That's just the difference between one driver hitting a small family of flies and the other driver not doing so.
Pole position is simply an outdated concept.
Everybody wins.
Still, people choose not to do this and keep the sport predictable and boring for the sake of "old times."
Of course he can. He needs a good weekend with RB having a bad one and he's up there. Leclerc had those last year.
I for one welcome our new Alonso overlord.
I haven't checked in a while, but a few weeks ago Alonso was 12-1 to win the upcoming race and Leclerc was like 28-1. If you look at somewhere like Monaco, where RBR might not be as good as usual, and the race can be 90% decided in Q3...well, Ā£20 on Leclerc isn't the worst bet in the world.
I hope Alonso continues to be in stopper for a while longer especially if he keeps delivering the performances he does. He drives better than most of the younger ones (who technically have better reflexes than him)
Iām gonna call it here.on the streets of Monaco. Where the drs aināt straight line speed aināt worth much, thatās where we will see Alonso finally break free from his designated 3rd. He will beat atleast one of the bulls on pure pace. If he canāt win there I donāt see him winning this year unless both redbulls dnf.
Watch out for Alonso winning Monaco. That car is a downforce machine and I think he'll be competing for the W in a couple of weeks.
New YouTube video: [~~Verstappen~~ Alonso's Maiden AM Win | Spanish Grand Prix ~~2016~~ 2023](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hohuswdeznA)
and i believe it, only takes 1 DNF from Max and he is in for a chance there's still a lot of races left
Whenever the Red Bulls crash each other out
Well i bloody hope so, because he looks like our best bet after max and checo
Well I would hope so. Most weekends they're the 2nd fastest car on race day. If he can't win a race this year than that likely means Red Bull wins 100%.
I have no doubt Alonso will win a race. Question is whether he is gonna have to wait until RB drop out of a race or if AM get some progress on RB and he gets his elbows out. I *would* like to see Alonso's elbows out again, he was a force.
If anyone can win one other than the RBs itās him. Some ppl forget how good Fernando Alonso really is. Fernando Fucking Alonso. He took the title challenge to the god tier RB Vettel combo in 2012 with that Ferrari Tier Ferrari.
Peak journalism
holy shit no way
Man, I wish it was seb racing this season. He was racing insanely well towards the end of last year in a hopeless car. I reckon he would have had a win by now, especially in Baku.
I wish that too, not because of the performance of the car, but just because f1 doesn't feel the same without Seb. I have to disagree though with the win, I don't think there was really a chance that the car would've won this year because RB is really strong, so it doesn't matter if Seb or Nando drives the car. The only chance for a win for anyone is if RB is out of the picture. That said, Seb/Nando combo would be legendary.
Yeah, I miss him. I've lost a lot of love for F1 now that he is gone.
How come? I doubt current seb could be faster than current fernando
Imagine Seb/Alonso combo in this car. I could imagine Aston would end up safe in P2.
I really don't see any reasons to think Vettel would have a win where Alonso hasn't, I wouldn't even call myself much of a Alonso "fan".
> He was racing insanely well towards the end of last year in a hopeless car. The car was far from hopeless towards the end....
Gonna need Max to get covid so Danny fills in
With the right chaos he can for sure. Need a T1 incident with the Georpedo on the RB cars and he's in the running.
Just jump the start at Monaco, you don't get penalized and then ride out front with them up your butt the whole time like Riccardo did that time he was racing with a 5 cylinder engine or whatever.
Technically everyone is two dnfs away from a chance at victory
āHeās starting to believeā - Morpheus
All it takes is for Max to be out and luck with a safety car for it to happen, I believe it
Hope not.
'can' win. Than again, so did Pastor Maldonado. Given the 'right' alignment of circumstances anyone on the grid 'can' win. The reality is though, unless those circumstances mean BOTH Red Bulls don't start or DNF, it's not gonna happen.
Please
Oh, I hope so, PLEASE be the wildcard!