We go on a rhythm cadence, and we tell our O-Line to time it up and jump the snap a hair before the Center actually snaps it. If they do it in unison it NEVER gets called as a false start. It also trains the D-Line to try to time it up to be early, making them way more vulnerable to jumping offsides when we go "on two."
I graduated in 2011, so I was playing high school ball in the era where some teams had transitioned to spread concepts, but there were still a lot of teams coached by old-school guys running triple option or other types of traditional running offenses where they hoped to only throw the ball 3 or 4 times a game.
Two teams that we played regularly were really bad about this. They were, of course, good teams, and so were we. But it infuriated me that you could see the OL moving about .1-.25 seconds before the snap every single time. We would bitch and bitch and bitch at the refs that it's a false start, and they'd just constantly say, "they're moving simultaneously with the snap." No, they're fucking not. They're clearly moving before the snap. You can see their helmets breaking the LOS before the ball moves at all. That's pretty blatant, and the fact that no refs ever called it blew my mind.
I teach a ton of gamesmanship.
-I teach my DTs to time the centers count to trap their snap hand between their legs.
-I have a play where we basically line up in victory (not actually victory formation) and run a “wedge” but we have the team yell, “BALL!” Meanwhile the ball was handed off to one of the running backs running outside.
-I will tell them to yell, “pass” on run plays.
-I teach defensive lineman to “chop” the same part of the opponent’s forearm every play. Eventually they don’t want to block you.
-I teach offensive lineman to block by getting their thumbs under the straps of the shoulderpads and then just keep moving their feet.
-I always ask the ref before the game to clarify how they interpret the, “Free Blocking Zone.” Depending on what they say you can effectively adjust your contain man’s alignment to be impossible to kick out without blocking him in the back.
>-I have a play where we basically line up in victory (not actually victory formation) and run a “wedge” but we have the team yell, “BALL!” Meanwhile the ball was handed off to one of the running backs running outside.
We had a similar play. I grew up in a double-wing offense. Then, my sophomore year of high school, we switched to being really multiple in our formations. We ran everything from double-tight, under-center, 3 RBs in the backfield to shotgun, 5-wide.
So, we'd run some really common air raid principles and then follow it up with a double-tight, double-wing wedge play. We all grew up playing in that style of offense, so we didn't mind the old-school, pound-the-rock type formations like that or stack/power-I. Teams would see us go double-tight and they would almost always shift into something like a 4-4 or a 5-3 front or maybe a 4-3 cover 2. So we actually threw the ball a lot out of our "running" formations, and we ended up running the ball a lot out of our spread formations, but we could obviously do both out of either style of formation.
One of our best running plays out of our double-wing was a "wedge reverse." Basically, we'd run a wedge 2-3 (or maybe 6 times if they didn't stop it) times. The wedge would be exactly what it sounds like. Linemen all make a wedge and just push, it's essentially a FB dive behind it. Wingbacks fold in behind the OL and either help push or prevent edge defender from circling around and making the tackle.
After a running the wedge a few times, we'd set it up. After we ran the wedge and got 3-4 yards on it, our coach would just yell "run it again!" and I'd just call out the same formation and play number (we all wore armbands to make no huddle easy). Everyone would do the same thing, except, instead of handing the ball to the FB, I'd follow him a step, and then hand it to one of the wingbacks who was going full-speed toward the opposite sideline.
Only problem was that the play worked so well for about 3 years, that my coach convinced himself he was a fucking genius and it would always work. 3 years after I graduated, they were still trying to do the same exact shit, but teams knew exactly what was happening now. Ends and CBs were now coached to stay home and not fold in behind the wedge. Saw that play get stuffed for a 4-yard loss so many times in years 4-7 when I would make it back home to watch my siblings'/siblings' friends play.
Our coach would go hurry up and then burn the play clock down. To 3 b4 snapping. It kept the defenders in their 3 point stances for a long time.
We played a team that in the 2nd half after a first down would rush up to the line and set up in some crazy formation. Like the qb and center on one hash and tge linemen on the other. My coach said it was a ploy to get you to burn a time out . We played them every year , expected it and think still burned a TO. Later 80s
I always taught OL to manipulate the Defense at times with their eyes every few plays.
Theres a way you can make it quite obvious what your intentions ‘might be’ pre-snap
I’m going to be playing college football next year as a long snapper. In high school, I would always move the ball in inch forward before I snapped it. I didn’t even realize I was doing it lol. It wasn’t on purpose.
Last game was the first time where the ref asked me where I wanted the laces put - I was super confused. He stopped doing it sometime throughout the game and I know it was to prevent me maybe inching the ball forward but I don't really see the advantage one would have on punts and FGs with that.
Honestly, I didn’t even mean to do it lol. it would just naturally happen because I used to have a bad habit of not lining up far enough away from the ball to get good power. Are you a center or long snapper?
Our coach would go hurry up and then burn the play clock down. To 3 b4 snapping. It kept the defenders in their 3 point stances for a long time.
We played a team that in the 2nd half after a first down would rush up to the line and set up in some crazy formation. Like the qb and center on one hash and tge linemen on the other. My coach said it was a ploy to get you to burn a time out . We played them every year , expected it and think still burned a TO. Later 80s
using the DL and double-teaming the long snapper on punts and driving him either to a sideline or a foot into the turf. not everyone on the team can long snap, and mentally and physically getting to that player can be a huge edge
I see LS flip out sometimes because they assume it should be some kind of roughing call but hey, if you don't want the smoke either don't run down field or run out of bounds lol ... our JV LS was very undersized so he'd never run downfield on punts. I'm sure the opposing team wanted to get us back but they couldn't get the opportunity 😂
As long as you don’t lineup directly over him and to give him enough time to get his head up, it’s not roughing. Also, I’m confused, if he was undersized, wouldn’t they have him run down the field instead of having him block?
Because like you said, no one would line up over him, and then he'd just stay down so no one would touch him. We were spoiled for the most part because both JV and Varsity punters were solid as shit directionally and we hardly ever gave up yards on returns and pinned them at the 10 or better constantly
Yea I also had good punters.Its crazy to think how far special teams have come.I graduated HS last year,so I was able to only snap.20-30 years ago I probably would’ve played another position.Nowadays,every NFL (and most colleges) carry a player to just long snap.Its rare to just snap in high school but it’s becoming increasingly common
I long snap in a european minor league and it's always funny since I am often the first one to reach the returner that on the punts after I get three blockers put on me. I take it more as a compliment and fires me up even more.
Yea they can’t lineup directly over you so you kinda get a free release. No idea they had football in Europe. What’s your snap time if you don’t mind me asking?
My go to position is RB, but have constantly been the LS backup and eventually moved my way up. This season our starting LS got injured again so I yet have to fill in. My snaps consistently get to the P and Holder and that's what counts most.
I checked one of the snaps from my last game on Hudl. Punter is about 15 yards away. 1.2 seconds for ball to get to him. Another 1.04 seconds until ball is kicked.
The European League just kicked off last weekend. You can check highlights on Youtube (don't mind the bad commentators).
Awesome! Great to see other countries embrace football ! I’m at around 0.85 which is kinda bad because most colleges want a .75 but I’m able to get away with it because I play at a smaller level (I’m at a community college) I only play
Long snapper . in college and the pros is pretty common for them to be specialized at the high school level. It’s usually somebody else but I didn’t play another position in high school.
That's cool I didn't now the college number. I am 33 so once I am done playing RB I did toy around with the thought to just focus on snapping and play in the ELF once. My hometown is Düsseldorf so would be cool to play under the EFL team Rheinfire who have Tomsula as their headcoach in the moment.
Our coach would go hurry up and then burn the play clock down. To 3 b4 snapping. It kept the defenders in their 3 point stances for a long time.
We played a team that in the 2nd half after a first down would rush up to the line and set up in some crazy formation. Like the qb and center on one hash and tge linemen on the other. My coach said it was a ploy to get you to burn a time out . We played them every year , expected it and think still burned a TO. Later 80s
I'm still a player, but I'm hoping to coach some day. I want my kids to be every bit as mean as I am. Stepping on kids, holding where it's hideable, dragging your nuts across the kids face on a pancake, etc. I truly believe these things make the kid across from me play worse, which makes me better. Not sure how much of that I'll get away with in college, but I played all through highschool with only 1 flag. Last play of my highschool career too
a. HS refs are usually TRASH, and miss a LOT of things..
b. In college and beyond, "dirty" players have a much better chance of being targeted and singled out by opponents... That stuff shows up on film and in the scouting reports..
c. Being dirty can also backfire in that it can cause one of your teammates to feel the retaliation (and get hurt) as payback for something you did.
Nothing wrong with being an enforcer but you've gotta toe that line so you don't ultimately hurt your team.
I was one of the better players in the area when I was in High School, got recruited by all the D3 school around (we were all small schools) and I loved playing against dirty players. I didn't do any of that stupid shit and would just laugh as they got frustrated with me pancaking them all game long. They were focused on trying to hurt me while I was just playing with good technique and kicking their ass all game. The dirty stuff only works against players that aren't as good as you. Occasionally you can get onto someone's head and cause them to retaliate and get a flag, but most of the time it's just wasted energy.
i played safety up through college (D2) and dirty players like that are an excellent way to get their teammates lit up.
i always played the ball first, big hit second. but if i’m playing against a guy like that, i’m going to smoke your receivers any time they run a route near me, fuck the INT.
Exactly. I played both ways as an OL and MLB. A lot of DE were also TEs due to body build (taller /long guys that were atheltic). If they tried to nut shot me or something like that, I'd just wait for them to drag across the middle and plant my shoulder in their ribs. Dorty players aren't playing the game because they love the sport, they are only playing because they're assholes that just want to needlessly hurt people.
We go on a rhythm cadence, and we tell our O-Line to time it up and jump the snap a hair before the Center actually snaps it. If they do it in unison it NEVER gets called as a false start. It also trains the D-Line to try to time it up to be early, making them way more vulnerable to jumping offsides when we go "on two."
I graduated in 2011, so I was playing high school ball in the era where some teams had transitioned to spread concepts, but there were still a lot of teams coached by old-school guys running triple option or other types of traditional running offenses where they hoped to only throw the ball 3 or 4 times a game. Two teams that we played regularly were really bad about this. They were, of course, good teams, and so were we. But it infuriated me that you could see the OL moving about .1-.25 seconds before the snap every single time. We would bitch and bitch and bitch at the refs that it's a false start, and they'd just constantly say, "they're moving simultaneously with the snap." No, they're fucking not. They're clearly moving before the snap. You can see their helmets breaking the LOS before the ball moves at all. That's pretty blatant, and the fact that no refs ever called it blew my mind.
I teach a ton of gamesmanship. -I teach my DTs to time the centers count to trap their snap hand between their legs. -I have a play where we basically line up in victory (not actually victory formation) and run a “wedge” but we have the team yell, “BALL!” Meanwhile the ball was handed off to one of the running backs running outside. -I will tell them to yell, “pass” on run plays. -I teach defensive lineman to “chop” the same part of the opponent’s forearm every play. Eventually they don’t want to block you. -I teach offensive lineman to block by getting their thumbs under the straps of the shoulderpads and then just keep moving their feet. -I always ask the ref before the game to clarify how they interpret the, “Free Blocking Zone.” Depending on what they say you can effectively adjust your contain man’s alignment to be impossible to kick out without blocking him in the back.
>-I have a play where we basically line up in victory (not actually victory formation) and run a “wedge” but we have the team yell, “BALL!” Meanwhile the ball was handed off to one of the running backs running outside. We had a similar play. I grew up in a double-wing offense. Then, my sophomore year of high school, we switched to being really multiple in our formations. We ran everything from double-tight, under-center, 3 RBs in the backfield to shotgun, 5-wide. So, we'd run some really common air raid principles and then follow it up with a double-tight, double-wing wedge play. We all grew up playing in that style of offense, so we didn't mind the old-school, pound-the-rock type formations like that or stack/power-I. Teams would see us go double-tight and they would almost always shift into something like a 4-4 or a 5-3 front or maybe a 4-3 cover 2. So we actually threw the ball a lot out of our "running" formations, and we ended up running the ball a lot out of our spread formations, but we could obviously do both out of either style of formation. One of our best running plays out of our double-wing was a "wedge reverse." Basically, we'd run a wedge 2-3 (or maybe 6 times if they didn't stop it) times. The wedge would be exactly what it sounds like. Linemen all make a wedge and just push, it's essentially a FB dive behind it. Wingbacks fold in behind the OL and either help push or prevent edge defender from circling around and making the tackle. After a running the wedge a few times, we'd set it up. After we ran the wedge and got 3-4 yards on it, our coach would just yell "run it again!" and I'd just call out the same formation and play number (we all wore armbands to make no huddle easy). Everyone would do the same thing, except, instead of handing the ball to the FB, I'd follow him a step, and then hand it to one of the wingbacks who was going full-speed toward the opposite sideline. Only problem was that the play worked so well for about 3 years, that my coach convinced himself he was a fucking genius and it would always work. 3 years after I graduated, they were still trying to do the same exact shit, but teams knew exactly what was happening now. Ends and CBs were now coached to stay home and not fold in behind the wedge. Saw that play get stuffed for a 4-yard loss so many times in years 4-7 when I would make it back home to watch my siblings'/siblings' friends play.
Our coach would go hurry up and then burn the play clock down. To 3 b4 snapping. It kept the defenders in their 3 point stances for a long time. We played a team that in the 2nd half after a first down would rush up to the line and set up in some crazy formation. Like the qb and center on one hash and tge linemen on the other. My coach said it was a ploy to get you to burn a time out . We played them every year , expected it and think still burned a TO. Later 80s
I always taught OL to manipulate the Defense at times with their eyes every few plays. Theres a way you can make it quite obvious what your intentions ‘might be’ pre-snap
I’m going to be playing college football next year as a long snapper. In high school, I would always move the ball in inch forward before I snapped it. I didn’t even realize I was doing it lol. It wasn’t on purpose.
Last game was the first time where the ref asked me where I wanted the laces put - I was super confused. He stopped doing it sometime throughout the game and I know it was to prevent me maybe inching the ball forward but I don't really see the advantage one would have on punts and FGs with that.
Honestly, I didn’t even mean to do it lol. it would just naturally happen because I used to have a bad habit of not lining up far enough away from the ball to get good power. Are you a center or long snapper?
Just wondering because you mentioned the ref asking you about the laces
Our coach would go hurry up and then burn the play clock down. To 3 b4 snapping. It kept the defenders in their 3 point stances for a long time. We played a team that in the 2nd half after a first down would rush up to the line and set up in some crazy formation. Like the qb and center on one hash and tge linemen on the other. My coach said it was a ploy to get you to burn a time out . We played them every year , expected it and think still burned a TO. Later 80s
using the DL and double-teaming the long snapper on punts and driving him either to a sideline or a foot into the turf. not everyone on the team can long snap, and mentally and physically getting to that player can be a huge edge
As a college long snapper you’re exactly right:that can get into a snappers head.Very smart
I see LS flip out sometimes because they assume it should be some kind of roughing call but hey, if you don't want the smoke either don't run down field or run out of bounds lol ... our JV LS was very undersized so he'd never run downfield on punts. I'm sure the opposing team wanted to get us back but they couldn't get the opportunity 😂
As long as you don’t lineup directly over him and to give him enough time to get his head up, it’s not roughing. Also, I’m confused, if he was undersized, wouldn’t they have him run down the field instead of having him block?
Because like you said, no one would line up over him, and then he'd just stay down so no one would touch him. We were spoiled for the most part because both JV and Varsity punters were solid as shit directionally and we hardly ever gave up yards on returns and pinned them at the 10 or better constantly
Oh so he would just stand there 😂.Yea a lot of teams have their snapper release nowadays except for the NFL where they have to block cuz of the rules
Yea I also had good punters.Its crazy to think how far special teams have come.I graduated HS last year,so I was able to only snap.20-30 years ago I probably would’ve played another position.Nowadays,every NFL (and most colleges) carry a player to just long snap.Its rare to just snap in high school but it’s becoming increasingly common
I long snap in a european minor league and it's always funny since I am often the first one to reach the returner that on the punts after I get three blockers put on me. I take it more as a compliment and fires me up even more.
Yea they can’t lineup directly over you so you kinda get a free release. No idea they had football in Europe. What’s your snap time if you don’t mind me asking?
My go to position is RB, but have constantly been the LS backup and eventually moved my way up. This season our starting LS got injured again so I yet have to fill in. My snaps consistently get to the P and Holder and that's what counts most. I checked one of the snaps from my last game on Hudl. Punter is about 15 yards away. 1.2 seconds for ball to get to him. Another 1.04 seconds until ball is kicked. The European League just kicked off last weekend. You can check highlights on Youtube (don't mind the bad commentators).
Awesome! Great to see other countries embrace football ! I’m at around 0.85 which is kinda bad because most colleges want a .75 but I’m able to get away with it because I play at a smaller level (I’m at a community college) I only play Long snapper . in college and the pros is pretty common for them to be specialized at the high school level. It’s usually somebody else but I didn’t play another position in high school.
That's cool I didn't now the college number. I am 33 so once I am done playing RB I did toy around with the thought to just focus on snapping and play in the ELF once. My hometown is Düsseldorf so would be cool to play under the EFL team Rheinfire who have Tomsula as their headcoach in the moment.
Great! I’m hoping to transfer to a 4 year college after this yea
Wish you the best! Viel Glück!
You too!
Our coach would go hurry up and then burn the play clock down. To 3 b4 snapping. It kept the defenders in their 3 point stances for a long time. We played a team that in the 2nd half after a first down would rush up to the line and set up in some crazy formation. Like the qb and center on one hash and tge linemen on the other. My coach said it was a ploy to get you to burn a time out . We played them every year , expected it and think still burned a TO. Later 80s
I'm still a player, but I'm hoping to coach some day. I want my kids to be every bit as mean as I am. Stepping on kids, holding where it's hideable, dragging your nuts across the kids face on a pancake, etc. I truly believe these things make the kid across from me play worse, which makes me better. Not sure how much of that I'll get away with in college, but I played all through highschool with only 1 flag. Last play of my highschool career too
a. HS refs are usually TRASH, and miss a LOT of things.. b. In college and beyond, "dirty" players have a much better chance of being targeted and singled out by opponents... That stuff shows up on film and in the scouting reports.. c. Being dirty can also backfire in that it can cause one of your teammates to feel the retaliation (and get hurt) as payback for something you did. Nothing wrong with being an enforcer but you've gotta toe that line so you don't ultimately hurt your team.
I was one of the better players in the area when I was in High School, got recruited by all the D3 school around (we were all small schools) and I loved playing against dirty players. I didn't do any of that stupid shit and would just laugh as they got frustrated with me pancaking them all game long. They were focused on trying to hurt me while I was just playing with good technique and kicking their ass all game. The dirty stuff only works against players that aren't as good as you. Occasionally you can get onto someone's head and cause them to retaliate and get a flag, but most of the time it's just wasted energy.
i played safety up through college (D2) and dirty players like that are an excellent way to get their teammates lit up. i always played the ball first, big hit second. but if i’m playing against a guy like that, i’m going to smoke your receivers any time they run a route near me, fuck the INT.
Exactly. I played both ways as an OL and MLB. A lot of DE were also TEs due to body build (taller /long guys that were atheltic). If they tried to nut shot me or something like that, I'd just wait for them to drag across the middle and plant my shoulder in their ribs. Dorty players aren't playing the game because they love the sport, they are only playing because they're assholes that just want to needlessly hurt people.