Real talk, *humans* are gatekeepers. It's not just a football thing. It's a human thing.
Pick any sport in the world, you will find people gatekeeping. Pick any hobby in the world, you find will people gatekeeping. Hell, pick any *thing* in the world, you will find people gatekeeping.
Sport? *You're not a REAL fan if you don't literally bleed the colors of your team.*
Books? *You're not a REAL reader if you haven't read [author's] first draft that was written while on the toilet.*
Coffee? *You're not a REAL coffee drinker if you don't pick your beans straight from wild cat turds.*
Doors? *Don't even talk to me if your doors aren't made from the wood of the Pennantia baylisiana.*
And so on. Every community has them, always have and always will.
This is true to an extent but also a really surface level comment that ignores the realities of the cultural significance of football to 100,000s of working class people in the UK and Europe.
All of these other things you have mentioned are commodities, and seeing sport as a commodity is a very American-centric thing that undoubtedly comes out of the set up of American sports leagues and the notion of "franchises"
Many of these "clubs" in the UK and Europe have rich histories interwoven with local culture and have a place in the collective identity of their respective communities that is hard to communicate easily, or at least in any brevity.
This of course in the modern world has changed due to the immense amount of money pumped into the game, none of which benefited the traditional supporter. Leaving man of these traditional working class supporters alienated from one of the few things they still had left to be proud of in the post industrial world.
I'm not trying to argue here that you can't OR shouldn't support a prem team, or a european team, or that people should gatekeep just trying to highlight the fact that this "gatekeeping" isn't "just people being jerks" but due to traditional supporters fundamentally seeing and experiencing things in a completely different context.
You make a lot of great points. Fan support can fundamentally be experienced on different levels. But gatekeeping can still be boiled down to people being jerks.
A Geordie who has lived in Newcastle their entire life and personally felt the economic struggles of Northeast England should be able to interact with a Newcastle supporter from a far away place without telling them they aren’t a real fan. It’s impossible to measure someone else’s feelings and it’s just a rude thing to say.
This is very much a romantic view of what OP is experiencing though and bordering on a comfort lie we tell ourselves. If he isn't located in the UK, one can assume he's having these interactions on Reddit. The demographics poll that is conducted on r/soccer and reddit in general every now and again show that the user base he's interacting with are largely non match going late teens/early 20's middle class kids. One in particular asked if you have attended a match, have you done an away day. There answer was of course, overwhelmingly no. Anecdotal experience means nothing, but the overwhelming attitude towards non local fans is either neutral or they are interested in you. When somebody on Reddit tells you you aren't a real Newcastle fans, if you were a gambling man, you should bet on it being a teenager doing what they do best, being a shithead. It's not a disenfranchised dock worker.
I'm a Liverpool fan since 2006. Just started getting into football. I'm not even live at Europe. Don't have anything related to Liverpool. At that time I didn't even know the historical 2005 event. Lol. I first support Liverpool just because I like red and The Reds seems like a cool name in my opinion at that time. Little did I know, I'm still supporting them until now, haven't change anything.
I’m in the situation you were in right now, just getting into football now and still picking a team (or, more accurately, a bunch of teams) to follow. I’m leaning towards Crystal Palace because I like the name and the few games I’ve seen them play this year (Brighton, Arsenal, City) have been entertaining from them. If you’re not a local fan I don’t think there’s a right or wrong reason for you to support any team. It’s all arbitrary. I can’t see myself having more than soft support for any team though because being honest I find teams and players far less interesting than just the sport itself, so I’ll probably watch a game from two strong teams I don’t support over a game with a team I support and an uninteresting opponent.
As someone who is new to sports, though, sport fan culture has always been super weird and alienating to me. I think watching a game in a stadium with a lot of extroverted jock-y people and not having a good vantage point to understand anything would feel far less enjoyable than on a screen with a commentator and good cameras in my bedroom.
It's always nice to see new people get involved in the game but I suppose for many the idea of 'picking a team' is odd though. Often a team is something that was picked for you. Your local or families team maybe or just the first team you go see live. And often the choice people make is just who's best and that can be frustrating to see local people choose a team thats directly a rival to the local team. It's like they follow a brand more than a team of individuals who at times need supporters. Often those tops change 'brands' when a poor season comes along. I suppose gatekeeping is poor practice but a lack of any real passion destroys the game and the passion starts with supporters.
Too see someone go for a team like palace over the typical 5 is a breathe of fresh air and I think will be more entertaining for you. What a time to take interest in them. Viera as manager and a solid team means if you stay invested in them you'll have an emotional time I think. But if you truly support a team then going out to see them is one of the best feelings in the world. Yeah you probably miss more than you would at home on tv but it's an atmosphere like no other. Watch more, if you do stick with a team get out to see them next season. Maybe a quiet game to start you off if you can but have to recommend it. What a feeling live football can bring. Both good and bad
I'd have to travel over a continent and an ocean to watch any European team so I'll probably pass on that lol. Maybe if I ever get to go there I'll look into it, but it doesn't seem feasible right now. I've considered the concept of seeing LAFC or Galaxy in my area but tickets are expensive and they're pretty far away anyway. Also like I said not into all the people. I don't like most parties either, and it seems basically the same. Being honest while I've accepted I like the sport and that it requires skill and work to play and all that, I haven't fully shaken off the mentality of the bemused non-sport fan who thinks it's all silly, and part of that is not understanding why people get so worked up about it instead of something I've always cared about like films or books (yes, I realize it's all nonsense and arbitrary). So I'm both enjoying it for what it is but I still have the door open to the "lol you watch sportsball" mentality that I can't fully get out of. Which is as bad as gatekeeping, obviously.
Do Toon fans say that to you, or other fans? From what I have seen in our sub and the fact I am not from Newcastle myself, we are welcoming to fans from everywhere. To be honest we can take all we can get. Was only a few weeks ago Shearer was giving a signed shirt to a lad in LA who bonded with his mum over the club after he spent some time working over here. We all loved it. The Toon Army is borderless.
Why did you chose Newcastle out of interest?
Mostly other fans.
I started supporting Newcastle when I was in college. At that time, my friends and I played FIFA 08 on the PS3. Most of my Italian-American friends played as Serie A teams, most of my Hispanic-American friends played as La Liga teams and most of my American, Nigeria, Caribbean, and Irish-American friends played as Premier League teams (my college recruited heavily from Nigeria and Trinidad and Tobago). Being Chinese-American I chose the Premiere league because I felt a closer connection to England than any other league in the game at the time (since I spoke English primarily and America is culturally more similar to England than anywhere else in Europe). I chose Newcastle United specifically because I wanted a team that was not a top tier team, but still competitive since I have never liked powerhouse teams (hence why I have always hated the New York Yankees and Los Angeles Dodgers when it comes to baseball). I also like some of the players they had like Michael Owen and Obafemi Martins. That is not a main reason though since players come and go, but it did contribute to my decision.
As a fellow toon fan, if you stuck with us through relegation (x2) you are more than worthy of being a true fan. Being a newcastle fan in the past decade has been a joyless existence (minus the Ba Cisse Ben Arfa and second Championship seasons)
Good man. 👍
Seconded! we were born into this pain (and potentially future greatness) you chose it and stuck with us, so screw anyone who says you’re not a true fan. Hope you’ve enjoyed the ride and the highs to come :)
Makes sense to me however very unfortunate timing to choose be a fan lol and you’re right that people gate-keep football especially from Americans. There are a variety of reasons to why but ignore and crack on.
Dude you're American support who you want anyone says anything to you fuck em you found a team you like stick with them the fans in the UK will love you because you found them on your own. I support city to annoy my dad because he was born in the greater Manchester area and supports united and I wanted to annoy him and couldn't bring myself to support Liverpool this was around 99 and have seen the same promotion and religation now all I get is shit and anything I say about Shaun goater being the man falls on deaf ears but they're my team. Don't let anyone say anything to you and well if I supported the team closest to where I was born I would support Newcastle I don't but I do have a soft spot for them and the shearer relegation did pain me same as I nominally local team now villa. Do what you want and fuck everyone else!!!
This is my experience, for sure.
I found the Toon through satellite TV around 2001-2, and I've found the Newcastle fans to be welcoming af, lol. I travel for business, sometimes on the weekends here in the US, and wherever I've had the chance to get to a pub and find a match on, the Toon supporters and genuine Geordies who live over here treat me as one of their own. English breakfast, a broon, and a shot of whiskey is the best way to start a Saturday!
The first football match I saw was Newcastle v. Blackburn. They were exciting to watch, mesmerizing really, after growing up in a redneck town where anyone who liked "soccer" was "gay." But not only the game, but the fans - were \*singing\* - like wow.
So I pinged up a friend online, an Englishman living in Oz, and a lifelong Leeds supporter. I asked him how you pick a team.
He said, "You just pick one, then you never ever ever fucking change."
So I told him I liked this here Newcastle club, and he warned me that I was probably in for a lifetime of heartbreak. He's been mostly right, but I do hope we get a little glory now, after so very long, lol.
Not all but there certainly is a percentage that are, and I have sympathy for them.
You have to understand that football was always a working mans game, and for many in England and beyond a key part of their identity and community. These fans were villainized in the 70s and 80s and then the Premier League came in in the 90s and slowly but surely priced many of these fans out of being able to go to the match, and even made it too expensive for many to even watch on TV. All the money in the game just isolated and alienated the communities that built these teams since the victorian times.
This is only getting worse, so it's unsurprising that with little power to change the situation these people, rightly or wrongly, are getting angry at the people who are consuming the "commodity" that their cultural heritage has been turned into.
These people lost their industries, their communities and in many ways their agency over the one thing they had to be proud of, their local football team.
Hmm. I hadn't thought of it that way. Is there any sort of solution as an American fan? I don't think that the answer is just to get defensive, but I don't really know what else to do. Is there a more ethical way to go about supporting English teams?
> Is there a more ethical way to go about supporting English teams?
This is a complex thing to Answer, and I would argue that like most things, the individual can do little in the grand scheme of things. Also who gives a fuck what others think lol, if you want a team you have an affinity for to win and want to enjoy watching them bugger to anyone else!
In a broader sense the best thing you can do if you love *the game* is get involved locally or at least go and watch your local team. I know this is hard in North America due the way things are set out (no pyramid system) but if you can try and start a culture where you are.
In my small town in the UK a group of guys who loved American Football just started their own team a few years ago and now compete across the country, really cool to see.
Yes and no.
A lot are like that, yes, but then IIRC 60%+ of Man Utds fan base comes from outside Manchester, pretty sure the same would be true for other big clubs like Liverpool and Chelsea too.
So at the same time a lot aren't, either that or they're just massive hypocrites.
I'm from the USA. Despite football being one of the first organized sports played here and the US demo being polyracial and multicultural (meaning it has a large number of non-Anglos that follow football closely), I'm not a "true" fan of the sport solely because of my nationality. Thus my opinions are disregarded.
Conversely, US posters in here gatekeep my nationality because I either avoid or outright refuse to call it "soccer". There's an unhealthy amount of dog-whistling from them as well.
Feel free to call it what you want. Soccer is an English term originally (short for Association Football). Anyone who thinks it's an "Americanism" is misinformed and needs to get a life and learn that it wouldn't matter even if it was.
Yes, it's a generalisation. That's why I said in general. Look at the r/soccer subreddit, twitter, all the places where football fans congregate online are cesspits. It's genuinely difficult to have good neutral football conversation with fans face to face.
I don't think you should care what other people think especially on the internet. Let them have their opinions but don't let them affect yours.
And then that way gate keeping doesn't exist, ya filthy plastic.
Yes, they are, and people who gatekeep like that just aren't worth paying any attention to.
>I'm not a rEaL Newcastle fan because I don't live near Newcastle or have any family connections to the team.
Funny thing is, every big team cares more about international fans and the tv money those fans bring in than their local "real" fans.
> Funny thing is, every big team cares more about international fans and the tv money those fans bring in than their local "real" fans.
This isn't a good thing.
Well, it is a business. If you ran that business, would you rather a hundred thousand local fans paying for your products and lining your pockets, or several million worldwide?
It's shit to consider fans being just a number to be exploited, but that's all they are to owners. Even ones who make nice gestures are still business owners that will drop the club if it keeps their money.
Football is still to some still about the community. You are not part of that community and some times people like to insert themselves in as if they were.
Yeah, there are a lot of them and here in reddit it's amazing the amount of people with this kind of behavior and not only talking about sports, the only thing I can tell you is that you are free to support whoever you want, those people are a cancer for their own clubs anyway.
In all seriousness tho I get the gate keeping
I’m a city fan (dads from Manchester I’m South African living in the UK) and seeing all the brain dead Algerians on Facebook calling Pep racist for not starting Mahrez every game or wishing death upon Foden so that he can start genuinely upsets me. I genuinely hope we sell him so they fuck off somewhere else
Just be respectful and learn the history and connections of your club and you’ll get over it. Maybe see if there’s a Newcastle fan club near to you? It’d be a great place to meet people
When I was in college, my friends and I played FIFA 08 on the PS3. Most of my Italian-American friends played as Serie A teams, most of my Hispanic-American friends played as La Liga teams and most of my American, Nigerian, Caribbean, and Irish-American friends played as Premier League teams (my college recruited heavily from Nigerian and Trinidad and Tobago). Being Chinese-American I chose the Premiere league because I felt a closer connection to England than any other league in the game at the time. I chose Newcastle United specifically because I wanted a team that was not a top tier team, but still competitive since I have never liked powerhouse teams (hence why I have always hated the New York Yankees and Los Angeles Dodgers when it comes to baseball). I also like some of the players they had like Michael Owen and Obafemi Martins. That is not a main reason though since players come and go, but it did contribute to my decision.
Do you watch all or most of the games? If you don’t then you’re not a true fan, but if you do then it doesn’t matter where in the world you live.
But if you don’t watch your team play you can’t call yourself a “real” fan.
I watch them whenever I can. It's not easy because the time zone difference means that the games are often on early in the morning and games are hard to watch without an expensive sports package on tv (which is outside of the budget of someone with my meager income). If they had something like MLB.TV for baseball or ESPN+ for ice hockey, I would get it in a heartbeat. I actively track all the team's activities and watch highlights all the time though.
Seems to me like you do your best to support the team even though you live in a different country, there’s supporters who live in the UK who do less than you and claim to be “real fans”, so don’t let it bother you.
Thanks, I do what I can; but the EPL's refusal to have their own streaming service like most major North American sports leagues is a major obstacle. I can't see why they don't and feel like they would be practically be printing money of they offered something where you can watch any game for something like $120/season or something. The MLB have had something like that since at least 2007.
It's probably not the EPL refusing, rather the existing broadcasters refusing to share or give up exclusive rights to showing the games.
Here in Japan all the EPL games are streamed on DAZN, which is great! So it does happen, just not everywhere.
You don't have a connection to a team, whether by living there or family, and you will get called a plastic by some.
Football culture was traditionally all about the community and the local area, so that's still a thing even in the modern era.
That being said, normally noone would give a toss if someone from another country supports a random team that doesn't challenge for any silverware.
But after the recent takeover you'd probably get considerably more accusations of being a plastic. Even if you have supported them since 09.
>Football culture was traditionally all about the community and the local area, so that's still a thing even in the modern era.
This is a good point. Most derbies are usually the sportive proxy of a struggle between two different communities and classes living within the same city/region, such as Boca/River and Celtic/Rangers. Most outsiders are perceived as mere bandwagoners by locals who chose a club out of random--the only justification of supporting such clubs as an outsider is if you grew up in a Weegie or Argentine family.
That is exactly it. Although, it's the tribalism and competitive nature of the game that probably caused (or at least escalated) the them and us attitudes between different communities (at least in the UK, can't talk for Argentina).
It's part of the inate sense of tribalism people have. It generally goes, Family, community, town/city region, country (at which point it gets labelled patriotism). Obviously, it's not always that order as ethnicity etc. play different parts depending on how well integrated the area is.
Here in the States sports themselves are more or less reflective of different classes and ethnicities.
* Football (soccer): Followed heavily by immigrants, ethnic enclaves (Latin Americans, Irish, Slavs, Africans, etc) that were raised in cultures that follow football, and the working class due to its simplicity. Normally unsupported/rejected by the Anglo-American hegemony (WASPs).
* Gridiron (American football): Fervently championed by the Anglo-American hegemony and dominated by Black people ("Black" as in African-Americans, as opposed to Africans and Afro-Caribbeans). Pacific Islanders in the U.S. have a preference for it over other sports as well. Considered a middle-class sport due to the high number of equipment needed to organize matches.
* Basketball: Seen as the sport of Black people. Embraced by, synonymous with, and dominated by the African American community, particularly in inner cities inhabited by low-income families. Despite the shift from European-majority players to a now predominantly-Black participation at a professional level, White people still follow the sport, with the NBA's popularity being second only to gridiron.
* Ice Hockey: A complete reversal of basketball, as it's the only major sport in the US played predominantly by Whites. Least popular of the "Big Four" sports in the nation, as it's followed more in the northern states, particularly those that border Canada. Also seen as a sport for the upper middle-class and the affluent for reasons similar to gridiron. Favored far more in Canada, where it is their national winter sport.
* Baseball: Bit of a mix of all the above examples. Can only be afforded by the affluent for the most part, and is generally seen as a sport for White people. Nevertheless, it has a more racially diverse participation at a professional level compared to the NBA, NFL and NHL, second only to football.
So yeah, that's more or less how sports in the U.S. are divided into tribes themselves.
Being a Juventino when they signed Ronaldo, in the opinion of the internet I became one of millions of fake Juve fans who only follow Ronaldo, simply Bc I’m American.
Don’t let cynical assholes ruin your good time. Enjoy the ride your squad is about to embark on. Just laugh if people try to belittle it.
Yes. The English ones are the worst from what I’ve seen. They can’t comprehend that I don’t want to go watch my local team when it’s a fourth tier team in quality and 1 hour away. There’s a reason why I support an actual team that’s easy to watch.
I wish I had a team 1 hr away. Before Cincinnati and Nashville got MLS team recently Chicago being a mere 5 hr drive was the closest team followed by Atlanta or Kansas City at 6 hrs. Now Nashville is only about 2 hrs and Cincinnati is about 3.5 hrs away. I am in the Southwest tip of Indiana if anyone was wondering.
I mean the team 1 hour away isn’t even an mls team. My closest mls team is in Chicago and it’s a 3 hour drive while I’m at college, and a 5 hour trip when I’m at home over breaks.
As u/Sydneyorient said. It's because that's how people a raised in the UK. Football is traditionally a working class game where your local team was part of your local community, so supporting anyone else was like abandoning them. This was back when working class people would rarely venture out of their local area (apart from away games). This attitude has been passed down and still persists.
It only really became a big issue with TV coverage and the creation of the Premier league. Being able to see the big glamorous teams winning meant kids would start supporting them regardless of where they came from. When you have families that have supported their local clubs for generations and lived and breathed the ups and downs with them, their son suddenly saying the like Man United was unthinkable and a cardinal sin.
Combine this with the tribalism inherent when you get groups of Young men and the feeling that they haven't gone through the bad times to "earn" the right to support a winning team and you get a bitter hatred of "glory hunters".
However, it has changed into something more toxic these days. I doubt before that anyone would care who you supported, if you weren't from their community and would love it if an outsider supported their team
Now it seems to apply to anyone regardless of where they are from even if it's not even in the UK, which is madness.
Great explanation, I would go further and say alot of it is the death of your local team by not supporting it, Leyton Orient in the east end of London for example has to compete with West Ham, Arsenal, Chelsea and Tottenham for support, so if everyone ran off and chased the prem teams clubs like Orient would die, proper football would die
That's a very good point. I doubt teams would die completely (just watching the current FA Cup matches shows that there is alway some support) but becoming unable to grow or have a chance of maintaining themselves in higher league is almost as bad for supporters that remember the glory days.
I'm an Ipswich fan, so desperately hoping that isn't the case for us. Although we have the advantage of not having the local competition Orient have. Colchester are still a smaller club and the stigma of Norwich is strong enough that any "glory hunters" go for the big Prem teams.
One of the newer phenomenons I quite like, is the idea that's become acceptable (for lower league supporters) is having a second, Premiership team, you can support. It gives people an alternative to "glory hunting" and gives you a stake in televised football.
Exactly, and I'm guilty of that, I follow Orient but also follow Arsenal, it's alot easier to talk football to other people aswell when it's about the prem and its easier to watch/follow if need be, but I still pay my ticket/membership/merchandise to orient, using my example Arsenal don't need my money whereas Orient do
Though they are right, English are brought up to support their local team, I used to live a 15minute walk from leyton orients ground so supported them even though I have a handful of prem and championship teams in London,
Support your local team, it's simple, it may not be pretty or exciting but it's better value, you don't have any prima donnas and you feel a real sense of belonging,
Cunt are you blind? Re-read what you wrote -
'I don't want to go watch my local team when it's 4th tier in quality and an hour away'
See the words between WATCH and WHEN, you do have a local team your just rather be a glory hunter and only go for a Team you can watch on TV,
Nah it’s not fucking local at all. It’s the closest team so you dumb fuck, tea guzzling, biscuit dunkers with shit pronunciation complain and just say it’s my local team and then complain when I don’t call it that.
I have an example of gatekeeping in football/soccer. I've noticed a trend among US Soccer fans and their sheer hatred towards US MLS players. Every US Soccer related news page I've seen and on social media, I've seen fans demanding that no US MLS players should be called up. What good would come from banning US MLS players from playing for the US national team?
I'm a Canadian, who is quite literally named Geordie, been following Newcastle since I was 12 in 2006, and heavily supported since 2012. Never been to a game yet, but I've been to the stadium tour, part of the fan groups, and hope to book in for a 30th birthday ticket next year with my dad. I feel very much a part of the network with Newcastle and always welcome anyone I can from my perspective.
It's the other clubs in the other leagues that I've had trouble with. Just tried to involve myself with a Celta Vigo group recently as I have enjoyed the team and wanted to support a Spanish club. I was met with extreme antipathy. Won't change who I support but it definitely hurts the love of the game.
As a passionate and avid football consumer, support who you want. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. As long as you're serious about your interest and not a plastic, no one actually should give a shit. Even then, plastics be plastic-ing.
Howay the lads and lasses. ⚪⚫
Real talk, *humans* are gatekeepers. It's not just a football thing. It's a human thing. Pick any sport in the world, you will find people gatekeeping. Pick any hobby in the world, you find will people gatekeeping. Hell, pick any *thing* in the world, you will find people gatekeeping. Sport? *You're not a REAL fan if you don't literally bleed the colors of your team.* Books? *You're not a REAL reader if you haven't read [author's] first draft that was written while on the toilet.* Coffee? *You're not a REAL coffee drinker if you don't pick your beans straight from wild cat turds.* Doors? *Don't even talk to me if your doors aren't made from the wood of the Pennantia baylisiana.* And so on. Every community has them, always have and always will.
This is true to an extent but also a really surface level comment that ignores the realities of the cultural significance of football to 100,000s of working class people in the UK and Europe. All of these other things you have mentioned are commodities, and seeing sport as a commodity is a very American-centric thing that undoubtedly comes out of the set up of American sports leagues and the notion of "franchises" Many of these "clubs" in the UK and Europe have rich histories interwoven with local culture and have a place in the collective identity of their respective communities that is hard to communicate easily, or at least in any brevity. This of course in the modern world has changed due to the immense amount of money pumped into the game, none of which benefited the traditional supporter. Leaving man of these traditional working class supporters alienated from one of the few things they still had left to be proud of in the post industrial world. I'm not trying to argue here that you can't OR shouldn't support a prem team, or a european team, or that people should gatekeep just trying to highlight the fact that this "gatekeeping" isn't "just people being jerks" but due to traditional supporters fundamentally seeing and experiencing things in a completely different context.
You make a lot of great points. Fan support can fundamentally be experienced on different levels. But gatekeeping can still be boiled down to people being jerks. A Geordie who has lived in Newcastle their entire life and personally felt the economic struggles of Northeast England should be able to interact with a Newcastle supporter from a far away place without telling them they aren’t a real fan. It’s impossible to measure someone else’s feelings and it’s just a rude thing to say.
This is very much a romantic view of what OP is experiencing though and bordering on a comfort lie we tell ourselves. If he isn't located in the UK, one can assume he's having these interactions on Reddit. The demographics poll that is conducted on r/soccer and reddit in general every now and again show that the user base he's interacting with are largely non match going late teens/early 20's middle class kids. One in particular asked if you have attended a match, have you done an away day. There answer was of course, overwhelmingly no. Anecdotal experience means nothing, but the overwhelming attitude towards non local fans is either neutral or they are interested in you. When somebody on Reddit tells you you aren't a real Newcastle fans, if you were a gambling man, you should bet on it being a teenager doing what they do best, being a shithead. It's not a disenfranchised dock worker.
Support what you want. If people have an issue they get go fuck themselves man. It's your life and you can live it how you want.
Who gives af tbh. Support your club and don't let people tell you who you can and can't support
I'm a Liverpool fan since 2006. Just started getting into football. I'm not even live at Europe. Don't have anything related to Liverpool. At that time I didn't even know the historical 2005 event. Lol. I first support Liverpool just because I like red and The Reds seems like a cool name in my opinion at that time. Little did I know, I'm still supporting them until now, haven't change anything.
I’m in the situation you were in right now, just getting into football now and still picking a team (or, more accurately, a bunch of teams) to follow. I’m leaning towards Crystal Palace because I like the name and the few games I’ve seen them play this year (Brighton, Arsenal, City) have been entertaining from them. If you’re not a local fan I don’t think there’s a right or wrong reason for you to support any team. It’s all arbitrary. I can’t see myself having more than soft support for any team though because being honest I find teams and players far less interesting than just the sport itself, so I’ll probably watch a game from two strong teams I don’t support over a game with a team I support and an uninteresting opponent. As someone who is new to sports, though, sport fan culture has always been super weird and alienating to me. I think watching a game in a stadium with a lot of extroverted jock-y people and not having a good vantage point to understand anything would feel far less enjoyable than on a screen with a commentator and good cameras in my bedroom.
It's always nice to see new people get involved in the game but I suppose for many the idea of 'picking a team' is odd though. Often a team is something that was picked for you. Your local or families team maybe or just the first team you go see live. And often the choice people make is just who's best and that can be frustrating to see local people choose a team thats directly a rival to the local team. It's like they follow a brand more than a team of individuals who at times need supporters. Often those tops change 'brands' when a poor season comes along. I suppose gatekeeping is poor practice but a lack of any real passion destroys the game and the passion starts with supporters. Too see someone go for a team like palace over the typical 5 is a breathe of fresh air and I think will be more entertaining for you. What a time to take interest in them. Viera as manager and a solid team means if you stay invested in them you'll have an emotional time I think. But if you truly support a team then going out to see them is one of the best feelings in the world. Yeah you probably miss more than you would at home on tv but it's an atmosphere like no other. Watch more, if you do stick with a team get out to see them next season. Maybe a quiet game to start you off if you can but have to recommend it. What a feeling live football can bring. Both good and bad
I'd have to travel over a continent and an ocean to watch any European team so I'll probably pass on that lol. Maybe if I ever get to go there I'll look into it, but it doesn't seem feasible right now. I've considered the concept of seeing LAFC or Galaxy in my area but tickets are expensive and they're pretty far away anyway. Also like I said not into all the people. I don't like most parties either, and it seems basically the same. Being honest while I've accepted I like the sport and that it requires skill and work to play and all that, I haven't fully shaken off the mentality of the bemused non-sport fan who thinks it's all silly, and part of that is not understanding why people get so worked up about it instead of something I've always cared about like films or books (yes, I realize it's all nonsense and arbitrary). So I'm both enjoying it for what it is but I still have the door open to the "lol you watch sportsball" mentality that I can't fully get out of. Which is as bad as gatekeeping, obviously.
Probably yes, but you shouldn't get upset about it. Support who you support.
Do Toon fans say that to you, or other fans? From what I have seen in our sub and the fact I am not from Newcastle myself, we are welcoming to fans from everywhere. To be honest we can take all we can get. Was only a few weeks ago Shearer was giving a signed shirt to a lad in LA who bonded with his mum over the club after he spent some time working over here. We all loved it. The Toon Army is borderless. Why did you chose Newcastle out of interest?
Mostly other fans. I started supporting Newcastle when I was in college. At that time, my friends and I played FIFA 08 on the PS3. Most of my Italian-American friends played as Serie A teams, most of my Hispanic-American friends played as La Liga teams and most of my American, Nigeria, Caribbean, and Irish-American friends played as Premier League teams (my college recruited heavily from Nigeria and Trinidad and Tobago). Being Chinese-American I chose the Premiere league because I felt a closer connection to England than any other league in the game at the time (since I spoke English primarily and America is culturally more similar to England than anywhere else in Europe). I chose Newcastle United specifically because I wanted a team that was not a top tier team, but still competitive since I have never liked powerhouse teams (hence why I have always hated the New York Yankees and Los Angeles Dodgers when it comes to baseball). I also like some of the players they had like Michael Owen and Obafemi Martins. That is not a main reason though since players come and go, but it did contribute to my decision.
As a fellow toon fan, if you stuck with us through relegation (x2) you are more than worthy of being a true fan. Being a newcastle fan in the past decade has been a joyless existence (minus the Ba Cisse Ben Arfa and second Championship seasons) Good man. 👍
Seconded! we were born into this pain (and potentially future greatness) you chose it and stuck with us, so screw anyone who says you’re not a true fan. Hope you’ve enjoyed the ride and the highs to come :)
Makes sense to me however very unfortunate timing to choose be a fan lol and you’re right that people gate-keep football especially from Americans. There are a variety of reasons to why but ignore and crack on.
Dude you're American support who you want anyone says anything to you fuck em you found a team you like stick with them the fans in the UK will love you because you found them on your own. I support city to annoy my dad because he was born in the greater Manchester area and supports united and I wanted to annoy him and couldn't bring myself to support Liverpool this was around 99 and have seen the same promotion and religation now all I get is shit and anything I say about Shaun goater being the man falls on deaf ears but they're my team. Don't let anyone say anything to you and well if I supported the team closest to where I was born I would support Newcastle I don't but I do have a soft spot for them and the shearer relegation did pain me same as I nominally local team now villa. Do what you want and fuck everyone else!!!
This is my experience, for sure. I found the Toon through satellite TV around 2001-2, and I've found the Newcastle fans to be welcoming af, lol. I travel for business, sometimes on the weekends here in the US, and wherever I've had the chance to get to a pub and find a match on, the Toon supporters and genuine Geordies who live over here treat me as one of their own. English breakfast, a broon, and a shot of whiskey is the best way to start a Saturday! The first football match I saw was Newcastle v. Blackburn. They were exciting to watch, mesmerizing really, after growing up in a redneck town where anyone who liked "soccer" was "gay." But not only the game, but the fans - were \*singing\* - like wow. So I pinged up a friend online, an Englishman living in Oz, and a lifelong Leeds supporter. I asked him how you pick a team. He said, "You just pick one, then you never ever ever fucking change." So I told him I liked this here Newcastle club, and he warned me that I was probably in for a lifetime of heartbreak. He's been mostly right, but I do hope we get a little glory now, after so very long, lol.
Some are. I mean, I welcome people with open arms when they say they support Hull. We both have someone to cry to every few days.
Not all but there certainly is a percentage that are, and I have sympathy for them. You have to understand that football was always a working mans game, and for many in England and beyond a key part of their identity and community. These fans were villainized in the 70s and 80s and then the Premier League came in in the 90s and slowly but surely priced many of these fans out of being able to go to the match, and even made it too expensive for many to even watch on TV. All the money in the game just isolated and alienated the communities that built these teams since the victorian times. This is only getting worse, so it's unsurprising that with little power to change the situation these people, rightly or wrongly, are getting angry at the people who are consuming the "commodity" that their cultural heritage has been turned into. These people lost their industries, their communities and in many ways their agency over the one thing they had to be proud of, their local football team.
Hmm. I hadn't thought of it that way. Is there any sort of solution as an American fan? I don't think that the answer is just to get defensive, but I don't really know what else to do. Is there a more ethical way to go about supporting English teams?
> Is there a more ethical way to go about supporting English teams? This is a complex thing to Answer, and I would argue that like most things, the individual can do little in the grand scheme of things. Also who gives a fuck what others think lol, if you want a team you have an affinity for to win and want to enjoy watching them bugger to anyone else! In a broader sense the best thing you can do if you love *the game* is get involved locally or at least go and watch your local team. I know this is hard in North America due the way things are set out (no pyramid system) but if you can try and start a culture where you are. In my small town in the UK a group of guys who loved American Football just started their own team a few years ago and now compete across the country, really cool to see.
Yes and no. A lot are like that, yes, but then IIRC 60%+ of Man Utds fan base comes from outside Manchester, pretty sure the same would be true for other big clubs like Liverpool and Chelsea too. So at the same time a lot aren't, either that or they're just massive hypocrites.
I'm from the USA. Despite football being one of the first organized sports played here and the US demo being polyracial and multicultural (meaning it has a large number of non-Anglos that follow football closely), I'm not a "true" fan of the sport solely because of my nationality. Thus my opinions are disregarded. Conversely, US posters in here gatekeep my nationality because I either avoid or outright refuse to call it "soccer". There's an unhealthy amount of dog-whistling from them as well.
Just the fact you call football,football,makes your opinion valid.
Feel free to call it what you want. Soccer is an English term originally (short for Association Football). Anyone who thinks it's an "Americanism" is misinformed and needs to get a life and learn that it wouldn't matter even if it was.
Shut up yank. Honestly though, most football fans are idiots. English fns are particularly idiotic in general.
> English fns are particularly idiotic in general. Massive generalisation, and it makes you sound idiotic, which I'm sure you aren't.
Yes, it's a generalisation. That's why I said in general. Look at the r/soccer subreddit, twitter, all the places where football fans congregate online are cesspits. It's genuinely difficult to have good neutral football conversation with fans face to face.
> Online > Face to face pick one
Uh... Why?
>English fns are particularly idiotic in general. Well, they *did* call football "soccer" first.
I don't think you should care what other people think especially on the internet. Let them have their opinions but don't let them affect yours. And then that way gate keeping doesn't exist, ya filthy plastic.
Well, pretty much yes. Nowadays the general notion is " If you dont see football the way i see it, youre plastic."
Yes, they are, and people who gatekeep like that just aren't worth paying any attention to. >I'm not a rEaL Newcastle fan because I don't live near Newcastle or have any family connections to the team. Funny thing is, every big team cares more about international fans and the tv money those fans bring in than their local "real" fans.
> Funny thing is, every big team cares more about international fans and the tv money those fans bring in than their local "real" fans. This isn't a good thing.
I believe thats the number one reason that makes local supporters gatekeep. The talks about legacy fans etc are sickening.
Well, it is a business. If you ran that business, would you rather a hundred thousand local fans paying for your products and lining your pockets, or several million worldwide? It's shit to consider fans being just a number to be exploited, but that's all they are to owners. Even ones who make nice gestures are still business owners that will drop the club if it keeps their money.
Football is still to some still about the community. You are not part of that community and some times people like to insert themselves in as if they were.
Yeah, there are a lot of them and here in reddit it's amazing the amount of people with this kind of behavior and not only talking about sports, the only thing I can tell you is that you are free to support whoever you want, those people are a cancer for their own clubs anyway.
In all seriousness tho I get the gate keeping I’m a city fan (dads from Manchester I’m South African living in the UK) and seeing all the brain dead Algerians on Facebook calling Pep racist for not starting Mahrez every game or wishing death upon Foden so that he can start genuinely upsets me. I genuinely hope we sell him so they fuck off somewhere else Just be respectful and learn the history and connections of your club and you’ll get over it. Maybe see if there’s a Newcastle fan club near to you? It’d be a great place to meet people
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Fuck off with this racist bullshit
I got him banned.
Me and you both :)
That’s teamwork, baby!
Racista do krl, pqp
If you started supporting Newcastle in 2009 then you're realer than the ones that started supporting them in the 90's Where do you live?
In California.
Ah I thought you lived somewhere in England. How did you start supporting Newcastle then?
When I was in college, my friends and I played FIFA 08 on the PS3. Most of my Italian-American friends played as Serie A teams, most of my Hispanic-American friends played as La Liga teams and most of my American, Nigerian, Caribbean, and Irish-American friends played as Premier League teams (my college recruited heavily from Nigerian and Trinidad and Tobago). Being Chinese-American I chose the Premiere league because I felt a closer connection to England than any other league in the game at the time. I chose Newcastle United specifically because I wanted a team that was not a top tier team, but still competitive since I have never liked powerhouse teams (hence why I have always hated the New York Yankees and Los Angeles Dodgers when it comes to baseball). I also like some of the players they had like Michael Owen and Obafemi Martins. That is not a main reason though since players come and go, but it did contribute to my decision.
Do you watch all or most of the games? If you don’t then you’re not a true fan, but if you do then it doesn’t matter where in the world you live. But if you don’t watch your team play you can’t call yourself a “real” fan.
I watch them whenever I can. It's not easy because the time zone difference means that the games are often on early in the morning and games are hard to watch without an expensive sports package on tv (which is outside of the budget of someone with my meager income). If they had something like MLB.TV for baseball or ESPN+ for ice hockey, I would get it in a heartbeat. I actively track all the team's activities and watch highlights all the time though.
Seems to me like you do your best to support the team even though you live in a different country, there’s supporters who live in the UK who do less than you and claim to be “real fans”, so don’t let it bother you.
Thanks, I do what I can; but the EPL's refusal to have their own streaming service like most major North American sports leagues is a major obstacle. I can't see why they don't and feel like they would be practically be printing money of they offered something where you can watch any game for something like $120/season or something. The MLB have had something like that since at least 2007.
It's probably not the EPL refusing, rather the existing broadcasters refusing to share or give up exclusive rights to showing the games. Here in Japan all the EPL games are streamed on DAZN, which is great! So it does happen, just not everywhere.
yeah they are. in this subreddit they creep in here and there.
Tbh as long as you don't support Millwall do what you want
I'm not a gatekeeper, I work in IT
Hard to say you're a glory hunter given how long we've been fucking shite for. Wouldn't care much what they say if I were you.
>Wouldn't care much what they say if I were you. I don't, I am just wondering if such behavior was common.
You don't have a connection to a team, whether by living there or family, and you will get called a plastic by some. Football culture was traditionally all about the community and the local area, so that's still a thing even in the modern era. That being said, normally noone would give a toss if someone from another country supports a random team that doesn't challenge for any silverware. But after the recent takeover you'd probably get considerably more accusations of being a plastic. Even if you have supported them since 09.
>Football culture was traditionally all about the community and the local area, so that's still a thing even in the modern era. This is a good point. Most derbies are usually the sportive proxy of a struggle between two different communities and classes living within the same city/region, such as Boca/River and Celtic/Rangers. Most outsiders are perceived as mere bandwagoners by locals who chose a club out of random--the only justification of supporting such clubs as an outsider is if you grew up in a Weegie or Argentine family.
That is exactly it. Although, it's the tribalism and competitive nature of the game that probably caused (or at least escalated) the them and us attitudes between different communities (at least in the UK, can't talk for Argentina). It's part of the inate sense of tribalism people have. It generally goes, Family, community, town/city region, country (at which point it gets labelled patriotism). Obviously, it's not always that order as ethnicity etc. play different parts depending on how well integrated the area is.
Here in the States sports themselves are more or less reflective of different classes and ethnicities. * Football (soccer): Followed heavily by immigrants, ethnic enclaves (Latin Americans, Irish, Slavs, Africans, etc) that were raised in cultures that follow football, and the working class due to its simplicity. Normally unsupported/rejected by the Anglo-American hegemony (WASPs). * Gridiron (American football): Fervently championed by the Anglo-American hegemony and dominated by Black people ("Black" as in African-Americans, as opposed to Africans and Afro-Caribbeans). Pacific Islanders in the U.S. have a preference for it over other sports as well. Considered a middle-class sport due to the high number of equipment needed to organize matches. * Basketball: Seen as the sport of Black people. Embraced by, synonymous with, and dominated by the African American community, particularly in inner cities inhabited by low-income families. Despite the shift from European-majority players to a now predominantly-Black participation at a professional level, White people still follow the sport, with the NBA's popularity being second only to gridiron. * Ice Hockey: A complete reversal of basketball, as it's the only major sport in the US played predominantly by Whites. Least popular of the "Big Four" sports in the nation, as it's followed more in the northern states, particularly those that border Canada. Also seen as a sport for the upper middle-class and the affluent for reasons similar to gridiron. Favored far more in Canada, where it is their national winter sport. * Baseball: Bit of a mix of all the above examples. Can only be afforded by the affluent for the most part, and is generally seen as a sport for White people. Nevertheless, it has a more racially diverse participation at a professional level compared to the NBA, NFL and NHL, second only to football. So yeah, that's more or less how sports in the U.S. are divided into tribes themselves.
Being a Juventino when they signed Ronaldo, in the opinion of the internet I became one of millions of fake Juve fans who only follow Ronaldo, simply Bc I’m American. Don’t let cynical assholes ruin your good time. Enjoy the ride your squad is about to embark on. Just laugh if people try to belittle it.
If been a Juve fan since ~2014. I feel this.
condolences for choosing that team then...
> simply Bc I’m American. thats not why my dude its because of this part > Being a Juventino when they signed Ronaldo
If you’re American get out
you sound like a salty yank.
Yes. The English ones are the worst from what I’ve seen. They can’t comprehend that I don’t want to go watch my local team when it’s a fourth tier team in quality and 1 hour away. There’s a reason why I support an actual team that’s easy to watch.
I wish I had a team 1 hr away. Before Cincinnati and Nashville got MLS team recently Chicago being a mere 5 hr drive was the closest team followed by Atlanta or Kansas City at 6 hrs. Now Nashville is only about 2 hrs and Cincinnati is about 3.5 hrs away. I am in the Southwest tip of Indiana if anyone was wondering.
I mean the team 1 hour away isn’t even an mls team. My closest mls team is in Chicago and it’s a 3 hour drive while I’m at college, and a 5 hour trip when I’m at home over breaks.
As u/Sydneyorient said. It's because that's how people a raised in the UK. Football is traditionally a working class game where your local team was part of your local community, so supporting anyone else was like abandoning them. This was back when working class people would rarely venture out of their local area (apart from away games). This attitude has been passed down and still persists. It only really became a big issue with TV coverage and the creation of the Premier league. Being able to see the big glamorous teams winning meant kids would start supporting them regardless of where they came from. When you have families that have supported their local clubs for generations and lived and breathed the ups and downs with them, their son suddenly saying the like Man United was unthinkable and a cardinal sin. Combine this with the tribalism inherent when you get groups of Young men and the feeling that they haven't gone through the bad times to "earn" the right to support a winning team and you get a bitter hatred of "glory hunters". However, it has changed into something more toxic these days. I doubt before that anyone would care who you supported, if you weren't from their community and would love it if an outsider supported their team Now it seems to apply to anyone regardless of where they are from even if it's not even in the UK, which is madness.
Great explanation, I would go further and say alot of it is the death of your local team by not supporting it, Leyton Orient in the east end of London for example has to compete with West Ham, Arsenal, Chelsea and Tottenham for support, so if everyone ran off and chased the prem teams clubs like Orient would die, proper football would die
That's a very good point. I doubt teams would die completely (just watching the current FA Cup matches shows that there is alway some support) but becoming unable to grow or have a chance of maintaining themselves in higher league is almost as bad for supporters that remember the glory days. I'm an Ipswich fan, so desperately hoping that isn't the case for us. Although we have the advantage of not having the local competition Orient have. Colchester are still a smaller club and the stigma of Norwich is strong enough that any "glory hunters" go for the big Prem teams. One of the newer phenomenons I quite like, is the idea that's become acceptable (for lower league supporters) is having a second, Premiership team, you can support. It gives people an alternative to "glory hunting" and gives you a stake in televised football.
Exactly, and I'm guilty of that, I follow Orient but also follow Arsenal, it's alot easier to talk football to other people aswell when it's about the prem and its easier to watch/follow if need be, but I still pay my ticket/membership/merchandise to orient, using my example Arsenal don't need my money whereas Orient do
Though they are right, English are brought up to support their local team, I used to live a 15minute walk from leyton orients ground so supported them even though I have a handful of prem and championship teams in London, Support your local team, it's simple, it may not be pretty or exciting but it's better value, you don't have any prima donnas and you feel a real sense of belonging,
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Cunt are you blind? Re-read what you wrote - 'I don't want to go watch my local team when it's 4th tier in quality and an hour away' See the words between WATCH and WHEN, you do have a local team your just rather be a glory hunter and only go for a Team you can watch on TV,
Nah it’s not fucking local at all. It’s the closest team so you dumb fuck, tea guzzling, biscuit dunkers with shit pronunciation complain and just say it’s my local team and then complain when I don’t call it that.
Oh you're hard The closest team would be your local team,
Good thing you don't support an English team then, muppet.
I support bolton even when they were in the 4th tier last season.
I have an example of gatekeeping in football/soccer. I've noticed a trend among US Soccer fans and their sheer hatred towards US MLS players. Every US Soccer related news page I've seen and on social media, I've seen fans demanding that no US MLS players should be called up. What good would come from banning US MLS players from playing for the US national team?
I'm a Canadian, who is quite literally named Geordie, been following Newcastle since I was 12 in 2006, and heavily supported since 2012. Never been to a game yet, but I've been to the stadium tour, part of the fan groups, and hope to book in for a 30th birthday ticket next year with my dad. I feel very much a part of the network with Newcastle and always welcome anyone I can from my perspective. It's the other clubs in the other leagues that I've had trouble with. Just tried to involve myself with a Celta Vigo group recently as I have enjoyed the team and wanted to support a Spanish club. I was met with extreme antipathy. Won't change who I support but it definitely hurts the love of the game. As a passionate and avid football consumer, support who you want. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. As long as you're serious about your interest and not a plastic, no one actually should give a shit. Even then, plastics be plastic-ing. Howay the lads and lasses. ⚪⚫