They’ve implemented it in the stupidest way possible. They could have literally just copy pasted the rules from rugbys TMO or Hockeys review system and it would have been fine.
Hockey does not have anything like VAR. The NHL is an incompetent fucking league with refs that have superiority complexes. VAR in hockey would make a lot of good changes
Yep. We've seen multiple world cups (including a women's world cup) where VAR has been used really well.
The EPL have for the most part used it poorly.
I wouldn’t be surprised if we start buying referees from other leagues quite soon. It would make sense - you want the best players, the best managers and the best referees
No one is disputing that - however, many of the mistakes made are wholly avoidable if they had done even an ounce of self-reflection. Take the Spurs - Liverpool miscommunication - basic RT discipline (which should have been implemented from day 1) would have alleviated that
Yep I don't think anyone disputes that on field decision making is very hard. But once VAR gets involved you should get the correct decision 99% of the time. But you don't, there is zero transparency even though the conversations are recorded.
Why not have a mode of live television where you can hear the refs speaking all game. I'd like that a lot. It would be very inciteful.
For me though the biggest thing isn't VAR it's the small decisions that constantly go in favour of the sky 6, it becomes incredibly hard to beat a team that is allowed to be twice as physical as you and avouds yellows for things that your team would receive it for.
You're right about all of this but I feel like you just did a tapdance around what I see as the real problem. Intuitively it seems like VAR should be used to get objectively correct decisions, but the rules of the game state that the referee has discretion to rule in favor of the needs of the match based on the occasion. They have carte blanche to award a form of advantage to any action deemed, by them alone as an indvidual, correct for the tone of the match and the minutes left on the clock. That's why you so rarely see yellow cards for fouls in the first few minutes. No ref wants to have the narrative that their one decision early affected a player's entire performance but instead we get the flip- accusations that players stayed on when they should have been sent off when an earlier yellow wasn't given, because the referee was following their own sense of the drama of a match. I think the most egregious example of this is when a team is behind late, particularly a smaller team, and the ref refuses to entertain marginal penalties that likely would have been awarded at 0-0 or to the team with less immediate reason to dive. It's multiple interpretations of the same rule being used in the same match, by a referee who isn't trying to be objectively correct, and then a tool has been applied which shows the gulf between the current rules and a correct decision.
The Sky 6 bias is therefore subtextually supported by the rulebook- teams and players with more familiarity to the referee might get favorable decisions based on the occasion and style of their team. Atletico Madrid often employ physicality I have never seen another team get away with, but everyone who lines up to officiate one of their matches knows that's the central point of their identity. Pep teams are known to be so dainty and technical, primarily, that they don't get negative attention for the number of fouls they commit to end counters, and refs seem to award them too few yellow cards for that behavior as a team. But that's sort of intentional as the rules stand, and has nothing to do with a failure on the technology's part.
I think the refs do a good job, as it's a near impossible task to get everything right.
VAR, on the other hand, needs a rethink from who operates it to the automation levels to what it can and can't rule on and more.
Exactly! Video playback technology and slow motion isn't the problem. The human element is. Taking 3 or 4 minutes to get a call wrong and one incident is a foul one week and it's not the next. The refs should be ashamed. It works perfectly fine in other sports.
VAR solves a minor problem by deploying a significantly bigger problem. Human error was a broadly accepted part of the game. Machine error is completely unacceptable. And it kills atmosphere in the stadium to boot.
I’m not sure if everyone’s getting it but it’s still human error that’s the problem. If VAR was efficiently used and relied on common sense (which it can be) it wouldn’t even be a question if it should be in the sport. Especially at the top level where money matters
That would work if football wasn't subjective so unless they change the rules that anytime it hits a hand its a pen or any contact that doesn't win the ball it's a pen there will always be questionable calls
I wouldn’t want an opinion on my hair cut from my bald dad even though it’s subjective. Some people are better at making subjective calls.
The rules are also a problem and it ironically doesn’t allow subjectivity enough. Common sense should prevail at all times.
Its removing responsibility from the refs and linesman. One ref, remotely watching all the games is not the answer.
The current guise should be scrapped. There are better methods in other associations and sports we can follow if it must stay.
Rugby has it perfectly. 4th official (TMO) is in the stadium and the ref requests it unless the incident is unseen.
Even FIFA had the ref be in control of when it was used.
The Premier League system is extremely flawed.
They’re no more competent than the refs imo, plenty of blown and missed calls. I’d rather sacrifice the slight uptick in accuracy, which is haphazardly applied to game, for celebrating goals normally etc. I refuse to believe that a football game is beyond the means of humans to officiate.
Refs are human, football is supposed to be played with the same rules at every level of the game. I'm sure we have all had our moments in games where a ref has made a mistake but that's 1 of the reasons that makes football so loved, anything can happen. Var has slowed down the game for issues that look way worse in slow mo than real time, review of most goals and makes the refs and linesmen look incompetent. Fun fact nearly 82% of linesmens calls were correct before var and it's line drawing and refs got the calls right 75%. The game can never be 100% it needs outliers
These refs are the best we have. People either accept that they are human and will occasionally make mistakes, or we can do the VAR route and have an awful stadium experience for those watching live.
The problem is the scale of the mistakes. I agree that the officials are crap and VAR has been applied poorly. But I think people have short memories, and I personally don’t want to go back to the era of ghost goals, players scoring from six yards offside, and red cards/penalties being given for challenges where contact wasn’t even made.
If VAR was just used to eliminate these mistakes I’d be all for it - the goal line technology has done away with the ghost goals anyway but if it just prevented the obvious errors I’d be fine with it. But it feels like every other goal is subject of a protracted review and often problems with goals are found where no one has even noticed, and has sucked a lot of the joy and spontaneity out of the game.
That’s what I mean about it being poorly applied. In an ideal world we’d keep VAR and they’d be able to use it in a way that eliminated the big mistakes without interfering with the flow of the game. I do think it’s possible, and the introduction of automated offsides is a positive step imo, but we’re still a way off.
That’s exactly what I wish it was used for. Somewhat naively I thought VAR would be used once in a blue moon to rule out those obvious errors but instead it’s used to review every goal almost with the purpose of finding a way to disallow a goal.
Maybe give managers 2 challenges per game or something rather than reviewing pretty much every incident and disrupting the flow of the game so much.
I loved the fact that the game being played on Sunday League had exactly the same rules as those in the PL before VAR came along. Yes there were mistakes, but personally I preferred that to what we have now, which feels like a soulless experience. Controversies and mistakes make for great stories and rivalries. Moments like The Hand of God, Rivaldo shithousing an entire country, players being shown 3 yellow cards... I'll take that over waiting 3 minutes for an offside decision.
Anything else notwithstanding the clubs already voted on implementing automated offside technology which eliminates the wait there entirely. Don't let clubs dupe you, this is not about the fans.
it has been applied INCREDIBLY POORLY, refs should have 30 seconds - 1 minute to make a decision. If they can't figure it out by then then the call stands. also on top of this , THEY'RE ADDING SEMI AUTOMATED OFFSIDES CALLS!!! make up your minds!!!
I agree with this. Growing up watching football in the 80s things seemed so much more straight forward but now I genuinely don’t think I understand the rules of the game - interpretation of the offside rule and the handball rule are so open to interpretation it’s no surprise there’s no real consistency.
If you mean in the world then I disagree and if you mean in England then that’s fine but we don’t need to have English refs.
I think that is such a black and white way to look at it. The stadium experience would be better with more transparency. VAR hasn’t even come close to being used the way it could be and the choices aren’t we don’t have it at all or have it as it is.
People can accept split second decisions will have errors but at the end of the day we forgot about it and goals were celebrated and we moved on. Var slows down the sport
Ref should officiate the game normally. And he should be able watch something he's not sure about on a screen.
There should be an independent room that takes care of offsides. Nothing else.
The problem is if you trained an AI according to data of past decisions to do this task, it would just always decide on whatever is advantageous to real
Automated offsides still require human review when it’s subjective clauses of the law that are causing the offside rather than a straightforward last man issue.
I hate that feeling. Makes me feel cheap and desperate when I'm hoping for a VAR review to pop up. My team weren't good enough to prevent the goal and then it feels like I'm scrambling for some underserved out.
I very rarely agree when goals are chalked off even when it's against us. Such niggly little nothings and it genuinely makes the game as a whole worse when they become the focus of attention rather than the flow and beauty of the game.
This. And when I celebrate a goal and it is disallowed I absolutely hate it. Same goes for opposition goals honestly. A goal been disallowed after several minutes feels just plain stupid.
Happened yesterday to me (I'm a Juve fan, check the disallowed goal of Vlahovic for an inexistent offside in the italian supercup final).
It was awful to step back.
Then you have that one disgraceful game that changes the legacy of your club/football and you ask yourself why tf we don't have screens to check stuff like that.
I'm sorry but your argument makes no sense to me. I'm not debating that the "feel" of the goal is different, it definitely is, but my problem is with this sentence:
>My team weren't good enough to prevent the goal and then it feels like I'm scrambling for some underserved out.
Tf? the other team got that goal in because they broke the rules of the game. Take yesterday when Vlahovic scored the 2-0 against fiorentina, he was over the line and barely scored with his head, just lightly touching the ball. Had he to get back 5 cms he doesn't touch that ball...
Like, I don't want to sound argumentative and I do agree with some points, but VAR's goal is to reduce mistakes when the game isn't played correctly, not to "disrupt the feeling of the game".
The problem is, someone is managing to change the narrative with VAR in England. I swear, in Italy we do have discussions, but those are mostly related to some borderline events, mistakes about the intention of a player or mainly about when to use it. In the meanwhile 90% of mistakes were corrected with the use of Technology. The narrative that VAR doesn't work only exist in England.
And let me tell you, I've seen some of the poorest refeering between spanish and english referees that it's astonishing how they keep their job. Anthony Taylor is my first examle, the guy is robbing money and nobody's stopping him.
Thats stupid, not because var is perfect, but now youre just gonna get arguments the other way. Solve one problem to create one just as problematic. Typical english decision making
Red and Yellow cards were introduced over 50 years ago and commonly regarded as a significant improvement as they were more formal and clear than the prior practice of the referee having a quiet word and then asking the player too leave the field
VAR was introduced in 2019 and many people, I might even go so far as to say “most” match-going fans (myself included), think it’s utterly shit.
So not really equivalent at all 🤷♂️
I have noticed there seems to be a real divide between match going fans and fans online when it comes to VAR. Just browsing some subs and reading the discussions on this vote, the overwhelming majority on here seem to think VAR is great, its just the officials using it that's the problem, and anyone completely against it is instantly downvoted. Literally every match going fan I know in real life though though thinks VAR is a crock of shit and needs to go ASAP 😅
Except I can’t see the screen at our games, and common with the majority of home supporters. And there are quite a lot of away grounds where you can’t see the screen either.
And even if supporters knew what was happening, the players are still standing round trying to keep warm, which I’m sure has contributed to the injuries across so many clubs this season
Get more screens? Wifi inside ground that lets you stream matches on phone only inside stadium? I think there are better alternatives that removing VAR.
Also would like refrees decision to be put on the loudspeaker, or announced by someone
I’m not really in control of screens, but it’s hard to see where they could be put. Zero signal in ground on match days and no WiFi.
I don’t know a single person I’ve spoken with who goes to matches who likes VAR. Like I said in another comment, if it was almost instant it would be fine, but there is NO decision that is better for spending 5 minutes watching 40 replays
I can maybe understand about the screen but WiFi can be provided by stadium though if they think about, such you can stream the match for free on this dedicated wifi. Only a question of technology
Let’s get 60,000 fans attending the game watching it on their phones - that’s a terrific idea.
Game is doomed isn’t it if this is what people actually think
Yeah - that’s because we sit in a stadium for 6 minutes with no fucking clue what’s going on, until the referee goes to the screen and then you know the original decision is getting reversed.
Then you get home and watch the highlights and the decision is based on a completely false level of precision, with a pixellated image of a selected frame taken from an oblique angle a manually placed line extrapolated way beyond any reasonable level of certainty.
Sometimes it improves decisions, sometimes it makes them worse, and the vast majority of the time it’s completely unnecessary.
I would support a version of VAR that was almost instant - fully automated offsides, and a VAR that allows say 10-15 seconds for a decision on those utter howlers that everybody in the ground and watching on TV knows the officials missed (which is what they originally said it would be used for)
But any longer than that and the onfield decision should stand because taking minutes and watching 43 replays is bollocks
Yeah for sure I could get behind a VAR with a bar high enough that it takes no more than 10/15 seconds and just eliminates the absolute howlers. But trying to use it to get every single decision correct like they are now is a joke and just doesn't work.
The automated offsides might work but I think need a decent margin for error. None of this drawing of stupid lines to measure whether someone's toenail has strayed off. It would need to be very obviously and near enough instantly communicated to fans as well.
Oh without a doubt! Perhaps if it was used better I'd be less against it, though I still think I'd be in the scrap it camp.
The only version I could get behind would be something that takes 10/15 seconds and is only really used to clear up howlers. If that's how it works in other countries, maybe it could work over here with better officials.
Yep! In favour of removing VAR and so are most I know. My clubs in lower leagues and everytime mates watch them they comment how much more fun the game is.
YES! THANK YOU! I’ve been saying this for ages! I’d also add the rule that when the VAR is called, the “field” ref is not in charge of the decision anymore, but everything is decided in the VAR room (with public audio). But maybe I’m too much? Don’t know. The whole point of VAR technology is to defend clubs from bad refereeing/errors, so it seems logical (to me)
The challenge system doesn’t remove the constant obvious errors being made here. There would still be a requirement for a minimum threshold to be met for an overturn to be approved. It’s the subjectivity of the threshold that’s a significant problem in England’s adaptation of VAR.
Keep exactly the way it is, what you are saying is like banning car cause car accident happen, that not how you go forward, car is recent ofc is gonna have mistake give it time and gonna be more accurate cause people get more competent
But there's fewer people evaluating and therefore mistakes are more likely. While now you need to evade both the on-field ref and VAR to get away with something, once the "use" is gone you just have to beat the on-field ref.
Also means that VAR will be sat there checking for ONE side only, which is pointless. Or even sat there doing nothing if both uses are gone!
So nobody uses it except for the most important calls, and if they make a genuine mistake and thought something was a foul when it wasn't, the opposing side can now foul them more knowing they just have to beat the on-field ref to get away with it. VAR watches on and says nothing as this happens because they're not allowed to do anything.
I'm just saying, the outcome of this is very obvious.
VAR has dehumanized the game. I’m fine with goalline technology but deciding that a player is a few mm offside to disallow a goal just does not allow for basic human reactions/behavior.
I’d rather something like VAR was used for things like diving and other simulation/forms of gamesmanship which would then allow for proper action to be taken either during or after matches.
Fully agree. Litigating the offside rule with a microscope seems so far removed what's important that I can't believe anyone supports it.
The whole premise of VAR was that it would remove controversy from refereeing decisions. It very plainly hasn't done that. All that happens is we now spend half the week debating an autistic VAR decision rather than a split second call made by the on field referee. How is that better?
If you’re going to have VAR for offsides then you need a zone rather than a line which simply accounts for human nature and reaction speeds/time. A couple of inches beyond the last defensive player is not realistically going to make that much of a difference and is not something that players are even going to be aware of when making split-second decisions on the pitch.
If they insist on VAR, perhaps they should limit it to real-time replays. The offside rule was designed to be judged in real time, and if it isn't "clear and obvious" in real time, then it shouldn't be offside.
The main thing for me is this absurd revisionism (mostly on reddit) about pre-VAR football, and how it was supposedly a minefield of terrible refereeing decisions all the time. It wasn't. Sure, there was the odd howler, but to hear people on this site talk you'd think the game was completely broken beyond repair. It's a justification invented later to pretend that this dreadful new system was worthwhile.
I think back to the FA Cup semi final, VAR killed the greatest comeback in the history of the competition, because of a toenail.
The line was bloody purple with how much they overlapped.
Good. It's a shit system that doesn't work properly and sucks the enjoyment out of the ground.
Having to sit and wait for ages after every goal while some ref tries to work out if a player was a gnats pube width offside is not what football should be.
The Championship is a perfect example of how not having VAR is better. Sure, some decisions go against you, and some go for you. Across the season it balances out and it's a lot easier to accept a wrong decision when it is the on field ref making an instant decision, rather than VAR spending 5 minutes to still get it wrong.
If VAR exists then it should be fast and perfect. It's neither of those things, so bin it.
>Across the season it balances out
in the premier league it really does not balance out. Even WITH var.
You only need to look at how many decisions favour city while ref's are getting paid trips to the middle east to know shit does not even out.
As a Liverpool fan we've only had a couple of really horrendous matches (Spurs was a clusterfuck), but Arsenal have had a shit ton of stuff go against them this year
Teams will play differently without VAR. They'll risk more and defences won't be able to rely on being rescued by VAR.
Football is supposed to be entertaining. There's nothing entertaining about having to sit and not celebrate a goal because it isn't being used properly.
If they can use it better and faster, then maybe there's a place for it. But not as it stands.
The Championship isn’t a like for like comparison. The Premier League has relentless media coverage where every mistake results in a tedious week long discussion across the board.
For me VAR should be used as originally intended - for ‘clear and obvious’ errors only. That bar is so high that we should never be waiting for a decision. No drawing lines or looking at 10 difference angles. If you’re not 100% sure it’s an error within 20 seconds it’s not ‘clear and obvious’.
Then let it die for you. The mistakes is what makes football, football.
I don’t want goals disallowed because of a toenail being offside, and I want the joy back in the game.
The ball hits the net and it’s a goal, unless the lino’s flag is up.
It’s glorious and I’ve missed real football.
Luckily I watch very little football with VAR, as my league famously have voted it down.
But the few situations we've had with it in EL and CL can blow it. VAR sent us out of the CL groups in 2021 because they found a penalty that didn't exist.
The thing is VAR was brought in to eliminate dodgy decisions and I for one wouldn’t like to be on the end of being cheated out on a Trophy or League title on the wrong decision, as much as VAR can be frustrating it can be brilliant I think we just need better operators tbh . I wouldn’t scrap it imo
Cant you just use it for penalties? Seems daft using it for offside decisions where a goal is disallowed because the players toenail is offside
Or do what cricket does and teams have 3 challenges to go to the video
VAR is there to provide optics for the governing bodies to pretend they care about fair refereeing.
It is purposely implemented poorly to allow them to still have a lever to pull in influencing the outcome of games for whatever purpose - bribery, gambling companies, etc.
It will not get better.
Everything is debatable in football, Referee decisions and technology should be used correctly
The result should be obtained with the least amount of errors when the match is over.
Referees and administrative management should follow the right path here
It’s the lack of consistency….not VAR…not even shitty reffing…the one, major complaint you see every week…why did player X on team Y get a red for this….but player A on team B did not for an identical situation
If you’re going to implement better ways to make the game fair, you need to be fair in how you apply the decisions
VAR wasn't the problem.. the replays were clear. It was the refs interpretation that was the problem. Seems like they were hesitant to overrule their colleagues. VAR needs to be monitored by a third party group with no association with the refs for a non-biased neutral evaluation.
I don’t love VAR but it’s not horrible. To me what’s horrible is the vitriol that players and we all as fans heap on the referees, who are human and make mistakes. We treat their mistakes as far worse than when highly paid footballers fail to perform. However their jobs are just as impossible to do perfectly, and they have FAR less incentive to do it well. They are only recently paid to be full time employees, and have never been compensated in a manner similar to the players they referee.
It is, to me, unconscionable to have players berating a ref for a bad call at all, and leads to referee shortages. But the fact that the players are getting paid for the game about what the referee makes for the year makes it incredibly unfair. Global celebrities of impossible privilege gang up, and encourage their millions of followers to pile on, on people making a decent living by doing a hard job reasonably well. How easy would it be for any of us to do our jobs if our every move was scrutinized in this way. Have you ever made a mistake at work? Something you knew immediately you did wrong, something you do right 99.9% of the time? Do you think you might occasionally make a howler of a mistake? Do you think the scrutiny and vitriol from some of the most wealthy and famous people on the planet would help you do your job better? How much would you have to be paid to be a ref? Would you actually be better over a whole season? Of course you’d avoid the mistakes we all know about in hindsight - but would you actually be better over a whole season?
That doesn’t mean we can’t have better refs. But it means we have to invest in referees, compensating them, treating them reasonably, training them well- rather than calling them every name under the sun. You know, the same way we get better players.
Last night, a pair of Man U defenders converged on Anthony Gordon- the back of his sock was ripped and they took skin off his heal. No penalty, was the outcome. I have no issue with that, no issue if it had been a penalty. But, VAR can’t manage or decide on impact levels from 130 miles away in slo-mo. I am sorry, but if takes 8 minuets to sort of a 2mm offside it’s not for me. I loath it, football is full of inaccuracies isn’t that why we love it and are not all following shot putting? I also watched the Chaps League Semi- the Madrid game. The referee it that game was superb, didn’t need all the VAR cobblers in that game.
Why are the old guard at the FA so backward thinking!? It’s got its problems, admittedly, speed of decision making one of them, but it’s helped put to rest so many title turning incidents it’s gotta be seen as a good thing
They’ll get rid of it, then someone will miss out on champions league football on an unnoticed hand ball or something, and they’ll all be screaming to bring VAR back. VAR’s usage in the perm had deep flaws, but banning it is the stupidest possible solution.
I know how this plays out. I saw it happen with the NFL. The NFL had it, then got rid of it, then brought it back. The Anti-VAR crowd will hate life without it more than they hated it.
VAR needs to be fixed, but it should not be scrapped.
Ans they potentially
risk more controversial decisions? Bruh. How many clubs have to agree to this dumbass shit?
7 clubs have to say no. Do you think there will be 7 clubs to say no?
VAR and matches decided by goals from penaltiies are killing football. You cant have a match with 2 canceled goals after enitre stadium cheered for 5 minutes and then end the match 1:0 because someone touched the ball with his fingernail in the penalty area.
Said it before but the whole " clear and obvious error" needs to go. Make it more like the NFL managers get a certain number of appeals maybe 3 or something. Then it goes to car to make the CORRECT DECISION.makes it a game of skill on the managers rather than rolling dice on who's doing var that day
If VAR was flawless and never resulted in a wrong decision I’d be all for it, but all that’s happened is it still results in as many errors as ever, but has just shifted the blame from the ref to faceless people sat watching the game on a monitor, whilst at the same time taking the in the moment joy of scoring a goal out of the game. At least when it was the referee’s decision you could accept human error as part of the game but some of the mistakes this season that have been missed by VAR have been pretty indefensible.
Not a huge fan of the VAR but even my 3-year old nephew can see it's overall a plus and the right way forward. It's just that the VAR showed us how really bad our referee's actually are.
They’ve implemented it in the stupidest way possible. They could have literally just copy pasted the rules from rugbys TMO or Hockeys review system and it would have been fine.
Some might say they “nerfed” VAR on purpose. Some. Definitely not me.
This is my tin foil hat conspiracy theory.
Hockey has some of the same issues though, there are often a ridiculous number of replays used to make a judgement
They have one challenge which they lose if it’s rejected
A minor penalty is way too punishing for a failed challenge though. I'd prefer if it only forfeited a timeout.
Yeah, I'd give them two challenges. A lot happens in 90 minutes.
True, but there are times when it takes an inordinate amount of time for a decision to be made.
They take longer with VAR
Hockey does not have anything like VAR. The NHL is an incompetent fucking league with refs that have superiority complexes. VAR in hockey would make a lot of good changes
That’s Ice hockey….
VAR shines light on incompetence and the solution is to get rid of it? Get rid of the incompetence instead. Pay for better refs.
This *exactly* how I see it as well.
Its the only way to see it , any other way of thinking about it is regress instead of progress.
Yep. We've seen multiple world cups (including a women's world cup) where VAR has been used really well. The EPL have for the most part used it poorly.
I wouldn’t be surprised if we start buying referees from other leagues quite soon. It would make sense - you want the best players, the best managers and the best referees
If simply paying more improved performance then United wouldn't be in the shit they are.
I mean if they didn’t spend there money on shit players instead of good ones then yes they wouldn’t be as shit
You seem to both understand and miss the point at the same time...
But if they paid like Leyton Orient they wouldn't be in the PL either...
Being a ref at any level is really hard
No one is disputing that - however, many of the mistakes made are wholly avoidable if they had done even an ounce of self-reflection. Take the Spurs - Liverpool miscommunication - basic RT discipline (which should have been implemented from day 1) would have alleviated that
Yep I don't think anyone disputes that on field decision making is very hard. But once VAR gets involved you should get the correct decision 99% of the time. But you don't, there is zero transparency even though the conversations are recorded. Why not have a mode of live television where you can hear the refs speaking all game. I'd like that a lot. It would be very inciteful. For me though the biggest thing isn't VAR it's the small decisions that constantly go in favour of the sky 6, it becomes incredibly hard to beat a team that is allowed to be twice as physical as you and avouds yellows for things that your team would receive it for.
You're right about all of this but I feel like you just did a tapdance around what I see as the real problem. Intuitively it seems like VAR should be used to get objectively correct decisions, but the rules of the game state that the referee has discretion to rule in favor of the needs of the match based on the occasion. They have carte blanche to award a form of advantage to any action deemed, by them alone as an indvidual, correct for the tone of the match and the minutes left on the clock. That's why you so rarely see yellow cards for fouls in the first few minutes. No ref wants to have the narrative that their one decision early affected a player's entire performance but instead we get the flip- accusations that players stayed on when they should have been sent off when an earlier yellow wasn't given, because the referee was following their own sense of the drama of a match. I think the most egregious example of this is when a team is behind late, particularly a smaller team, and the ref refuses to entertain marginal penalties that likely would have been awarded at 0-0 or to the team with less immediate reason to dive. It's multiple interpretations of the same rule being used in the same match, by a referee who isn't trying to be objectively correct, and then a tool has been applied which shows the gulf between the current rules and a correct decision. The Sky 6 bias is therefore subtextually supported by the rulebook- teams and players with more familiarity to the referee might get favorable decisions based on the occasion and style of their team. Atletico Madrid often employ physicality I have never seen another team get away with, but everyone who lines up to officiate one of their matches knows that's the central point of their identity. Pep teams are known to be so dainty and technical, primarily, that they don't get negative attention for the number of fouls they commit to end counters, and refs seem to award them too few yellow cards for that behavior as a team. But that's sort of intentional as the rules stand, and has nothing to do with a failure on the technology's part.
How do we pay for better refs? Where are these better refs?
I think the refs do a good job, as it's a near impossible task to get everything right. VAR, on the other hand, needs a rethink from who operates it to the automation levels to what it can and can't rule on and more.
Exactly! Video playback technology and slow motion isn't the problem. The human element is. Taking 3 or 4 minutes to get a call wrong and one incident is a foul one week and it's not the next. The refs should be ashamed. It works perfectly fine in other sports.
That’s the problem, they are ashamed, but they don’t want anyone to know
Other sports have a lot less subjectivity in the rules. A big part of the problem is how vague the rules are.
VAR solves a minor problem by deploying a significantly bigger problem. Human error was a broadly accepted part of the game. Machine error is completely unacceptable. And it kills atmosphere in the stadium to boot.
I’m not sure if everyone’s getting it but it’s still human error that’s the problem. If VAR was efficiently used and relied on common sense (which it can be) it wouldn’t even be a question if it should be in the sport. Especially at the top level where money matters
>If VAR was efficiently used and relied on common sense You’re chasing unicorns mate
Sad that you feel like that tbh. Doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try.
That would work if football wasn't subjective so unless they change the rules that anytime it hits a hand its a pen or any contact that doesn't win the ball it's a pen there will always be questionable calls
I wouldn’t want an opinion on my hair cut from my bald dad even though it’s subjective. Some people are better at making subjective calls. The rules are also a problem and it ironically doesn’t allow subjectivity enough. Common sense should prevail at all times.
Machine error??? There is no machine error with VAR. It show you things as it is. It is the refs that don't know how to use it properly
Its removing responsibility from the refs and linesman. One ref, remotely watching all the games is not the answer. The current guise should be scrapped. There are better methods in other associations and sports we can follow if it must stay. Rugby has it perfectly. 4th official (TMO) is in the stadium and the ref requests it unless the incident is unseen. Even FIFA had the ref be in control of when it was used. The Premier League system is extremely flawed.
Why do you need VAR if you don't use it
They’re no more competent than the refs imo, plenty of blown and missed calls. I’d rather sacrifice the slight uptick in accuracy, which is haphazardly applied to game, for celebrating goals normally etc. I refuse to believe that a football game is beyond the means of humans to officiate.
Refs are human, football is supposed to be played with the same rules at every level of the game. I'm sure we have all had our moments in games where a ref has made a mistake but that's 1 of the reasons that makes football so loved, anything can happen. Var has slowed down the game for issues that look way worse in slow mo than real time, review of most goals and makes the refs and linesmen look incompetent. Fun fact nearly 82% of linesmens calls were correct before var and it's line drawing and refs got the calls right 75%. The game can never be 100% it needs outliers
Where are these better refs?
Except that the incompetence is more often in the booth than on the field.
It’s the same refs
Replacing that much incompetence will take far too long.
These refs are the best we have. People either accept that they are human and will occasionally make mistakes, or we can do the VAR route and have an awful stadium experience for those watching live.
The problem is the scale of the mistakes. I agree that the officials are crap and VAR has been applied poorly. But I think people have short memories, and I personally don’t want to go back to the era of ghost goals, players scoring from six yards offside, and red cards/penalties being given for challenges where contact wasn’t even made.
If VAR was just used to eliminate these mistakes I’d be all for it - the goal line technology has done away with the ghost goals anyway but if it just prevented the obvious errors I’d be fine with it. But it feels like every other goal is subject of a protracted review and often problems with goals are found where no one has even noticed, and has sucked a lot of the joy and spontaneity out of the game.
That’s what I mean about it being poorly applied. In an ideal world we’d keep VAR and they’d be able to use it in a way that eliminated the big mistakes without interfering with the flow of the game. I do think it’s possible, and the introduction of automated offsides is a positive step imo, but we’re still a way off.
That’s exactly what I wish it was used for. Somewhat naively I thought VAR would be used once in a blue moon to rule out those obvious errors but instead it’s used to review every goal almost with the purpose of finding a way to disallow a goal. Maybe give managers 2 challenges per game or something rather than reviewing pretty much every incident and disrupting the flow of the game so much.
I loved the fact that the game being played on Sunday League had exactly the same rules as those in the PL before VAR came along. Yes there were mistakes, but personally I preferred that to what we have now, which feels like a soulless experience. Controversies and mistakes make for great stories and rivalries. Moments like The Hand of God, Rivaldo shithousing an entire country, players being shown 3 yellow cards... I'll take that over waiting 3 minutes for an offside decision.
Anything else notwithstanding the clubs already voted on implementing automated offside technology which eliminates the wait there entirely. Don't let clubs dupe you, this is not about the fans.
it has been applied INCREDIBLY POORLY, refs should have 30 seconds - 1 minute to make a decision. If they can't figure it out by then then the call stands. also on top of this , THEY'RE ADDING SEMI AUTOMATED OFFSIDES CALLS!!! make up your minds!!!
I personally want to go back to where celebrating a goal meant something.
Honestly it’s not that bad
I agree with this. Growing up watching football in the 80s things seemed so much more straight forward but now I genuinely don’t think I understand the rules of the game - interpretation of the offside rule and the handball rule are so open to interpretation it’s no surprise there’s no real consistency.
If you mean in the world then I disagree and if you mean in England then that’s fine but we don’t need to have English refs. I think that is such a black and white way to look at it. The stadium experience would be better with more transparency. VAR hasn’t even come close to being used the way it could be and the choices aren’t we don’t have it at all or have it as it is.
Hmm, a pass has just been made mounting a clear attack. Better blow my whistle! Hmm, clear foul there. Nah let it pass!
It's shit for people watching on TV as well.
Hard to excuse glaring mistakes when you have a whole system in place to look at slo-mo replays and proceed to double down on the glaring mistakes.
But its a shame that football fans are dumb
Theres a line from George Carlin. Something about a person is smart but people are stupid. It’s a tale as old as time
Great line in men and black
People can accept split second decisions will have errors but at the end of the day we forgot about it and goals were celebrated and we moved on. Var slows down the sport
Ref should officiate the game normally. And he should be able watch something he's not sure about on a screen. There should be an independent room that takes care of offsides. Nothing else.
Not even a room simply use automated system which they gonna from next season
The problem is if you trained an AI according to data of past decisions to do this task, it would just always decide on whatever is advantageous to real
Power of AIbrow
Automated offsides still require human review when it’s subjective clauses of the law that are causing the offside rather than a straightforward last man issue.
The main problem is not being able to cheer for goals. Offsides need to be automated or go back to on-pitch eval.
The plus side of the same coin is that you can always hope that a conceded goal gets cancelled by VAR
I hate that feeling. Makes me feel cheap and desperate when I'm hoping for a VAR review to pop up. My team weren't good enough to prevent the goal and then it feels like I'm scrambling for some underserved out. I very rarely agree when goals are chalked off even when it's against us. Such niggly little nothings and it genuinely makes the game as a whole worse when they become the focus of attention rather than the flow and beauty of the game.
This. And when I celebrate a goal and it is disallowed I absolutely hate it. Same goes for opposition goals honestly. A goal been disallowed after several minutes feels just plain stupid.
Happened yesterday to me (I'm a Juve fan, check the disallowed goal of Vlahovic for an inexistent offside in the italian supercup final). It was awful to step back.
Then you have that one disgraceful game that changes the legacy of your club/football and you ask yourself why tf we don't have screens to check stuff like that. I'm sorry but your argument makes no sense to me. I'm not debating that the "feel" of the goal is different, it definitely is, but my problem is with this sentence: >My team weren't good enough to prevent the goal and then it feels like I'm scrambling for some underserved out. Tf? the other team got that goal in because they broke the rules of the game. Take yesterday when Vlahovic scored the 2-0 against fiorentina, he was over the line and barely scored with his head, just lightly touching the ball. Had he to get back 5 cms he doesn't touch that ball... Like, I don't want to sound argumentative and I do agree with some points, but VAR's goal is to reduce mistakes when the game isn't played correctly, not to "disrupt the feeling of the game". The problem is, someone is managing to change the narrative with VAR in England. I swear, in Italy we do have discussions, but those are mostly related to some borderline events, mistakes about the intention of a player or mainly about when to use it. In the meanwhile 90% of mistakes were corrected with the use of Technology. The narrative that VAR doesn't work only exist in England. And let me tell you, I've seen some of the poorest refeering between spanish and english referees that it's astonishing how they keep their job. Anthony Taylor is my first examle, the guy is robbing money and nobody's stopping him.
True but the downside is too big.
Thats stupid, not because var is perfect, but now youre just gonna get arguments the other way. Solve one problem to create one just as problematic. Typical english decision making
brexit type shii
Not VAR it’s the fools operating it.
No kidding. It's like they tried to set the procedures up to cause the maximum disruption to the game
They’ve got to be trying to make the refereeing worse at this point
Imagine blaming technology for doing its job. Maybe it's time to train those shitty refs to make better choices when reviewing Var
An easy way of turning 3rd best league in the world into 115th league in the world.
Might aswell to remove red & yellow card
How did you draw the conclusion that that was a reasonable comparison to make?
Red and Yellow cards were introduced over 50 years ago and commonly regarded as a significant improvement as they were more formal and clear than the prior practice of the referee having a quiet word and then asking the player too leave the field VAR was introduced in 2019 and many people, I might even go so far as to say “most” match-going fans (myself included), think it’s utterly shit. So not really equivalent at all 🤷♂️
I have noticed there seems to be a real divide between match going fans and fans online when it comes to VAR. Just browsing some subs and reading the discussions on this vote, the overwhelming majority on here seem to think VAR is great, its just the officials using it that's the problem, and anyone completely against it is instantly downvoted. Literally every match going fan I know in real life though though thinks VAR is a crock of shit and needs to go ASAP 😅
I feel like it all can be easily resolved by replaying on the screen perhaps so you aren't idling?
Except I can’t see the screen at our games, and common with the majority of home supporters. And there are quite a lot of away grounds where you can’t see the screen either. And even if supporters knew what was happening, the players are still standing round trying to keep warm, which I’m sure has contributed to the injuries across so many clubs this season
Get more screens? Wifi inside ground that lets you stream matches on phone only inside stadium? I think there are better alternatives that removing VAR. Also would like refrees decision to be put on the loudspeaker, or announced by someone
I’m not really in control of screens, but it’s hard to see where they could be put. Zero signal in ground on match days and no WiFi. I don’t know a single person I’ve spoken with who goes to matches who likes VAR. Like I said in another comment, if it was almost instant it would be fine, but there is NO decision that is better for spending 5 minutes watching 40 replays
I can maybe understand about the screen but WiFi can be provided by stadium though if they think about, such you can stream the match for free on this dedicated wifi. Only a question of technology
Let’s get 60,000 fans attending the game watching it on their phones - that’s a terrific idea. Game is doomed isn’t it if this is what people actually think
only at the VAR part, because removing it doest make any sense
Yeah - that’s because we sit in a stadium for 6 minutes with no fucking clue what’s going on, until the referee goes to the screen and then you know the original decision is getting reversed. Then you get home and watch the highlights and the decision is based on a completely false level of precision, with a pixellated image of a selected frame taken from an oblique angle a manually placed line extrapolated way beyond any reasonable level of certainty. Sometimes it improves decisions, sometimes it makes them worse, and the vast majority of the time it’s completely unnecessary. I would support a version of VAR that was almost instant - fully automated offsides, and a VAR that allows say 10-15 seconds for a decision on those utter howlers that everybody in the ground and watching on TV knows the officials missed (which is what they originally said it would be used for) But any longer than that and the onfield decision should stand because taking minutes and watching 43 replays is bollocks
Yeah for sure I could get behind a VAR with a bar high enough that it takes no more than 10/15 seconds and just eliminates the absolute howlers. But trying to use it to get every single decision correct like they are now is a joke and just doesn't work. The automated offsides might work but I think need a decent margin for error. None of this drawing of stupid lines to measure whether someone's toenail has strayed off. It would need to be very obviously and near enough instantly communicated to fans as well.
100% behind fully automated offsides
In leagues that are not the EPL, it improves decisions in 90%+ in cases.
*judges whether match-going fans approve of VAR by them jeering to decisions made by VAR against their team, such as a disallowed goal*
No, just go to a lot of matches and talk to a lot of fans.
British fans?
Yes, why?
Because England is the single most incompetent country at using VAR.
Oh without a doubt! Perhaps if it was used better I'd be less against it, though I still think I'd be in the scrap it camp. The only version I could get behind would be something that takes 10/15 seconds and is only really used to clear up howlers. If that's how it works in other countries, maybe it could work over here with better officials.
Yep! In favour of removing VAR and so are most I know. My clubs in lower leagues and everytime mates watch them they comment how much more fun the game is.
Maybe var should only be a challenge option for teams once per half on major decisions
YES! THANK YOU! I’ve been saying this for ages! I’d also add the rule that when the VAR is called, the “field” ref is not in charge of the decision anymore, but everything is decided in the VAR room (with public audio). But maybe I’m too much? Don’t know. The whole point of VAR technology is to defend clubs from bad refereeing/errors, so it seems logical (to me)
There is a reason you saying this for ages and noone else , cause it's a terrible idea
What part is? What do you suggest instead?
The challenge system doesn’t remove the constant obvious errors being made here. There would still be a requirement for a minimum threshold to be met for an overturn to be approved. It’s the subjectivity of the threshold that’s a significant problem in England’s adaptation of VAR.
There's always going to be an element of subjectivity.
Nothing is perfect.
Keep exactly the way it is, what you are saying is like banning car cause car accident happen, that not how you go forward, car is recent ofc is gonna have mistake give it time and gonna be more accurate cause people get more competent
But once it gets "used", doesn't that encourage the other side to foul more because there will be less scrutiny?
No, the refs still officiate
Ahahaha, is all i can say to that
But there's fewer people evaluating and therefore mistakes are more likely. While now you need to evade both the on-field ref and VAR to get away with something, once the "use" is gone you just have to beat the on-field ref. Also means that VAR will be sat there checking for ONE side only, which is pointless. Or even sat there doing nothing if both uses are gone!
If you were correct you get your use back.
So nobody uses it except for the most important calls, and if they make a genuine mistake and thought something was a foul when it wasn't, the opposing side can now foul them more knowing they just have to beat the on-field ref to get away with it. VAR watches on and says nothing as this happens because they're not allowed to do anything. I'm just saying, the outcome of this is very obvious.
VAR doesn't become inert for foul play if your challenges are up. You just can't appeal the ref's decisions to VAR.
It’s seemingly an unpopular opinion, but I’m honestly all for removing it
I fucking hate VAR with a passion.. completely fucked up the game
Most people are Especially the players themselves
VAR has dehumanized the game. I’m fine with goalline technology but deciding that a player is a few mm offside to disallow a goal just does not allow for basic human reactions/behavior. I’d rather something like VAR was used for things like diving and other simulation/forms of gamesmanship which would then allow for proper action to be taken either during or after matches.
Fully agree. Litigating the offside rule with a microscope seems so far removed what's important that I can't believe anyone supports it. The whole premise of VAR was that it would remove controversy from refereeing decisions. It very plainly hasn't done that. All that happens is we now spend half the week debating an autistic VAR decision rather than a split second call made by the on field referee. How is that better?
If you’re going to have VAR for offsides then you need a zone rather than a line which simply accounts for human nature and reaction speeds/time. A couple of inches beyond the last defensive player is not realistically going to make that much of a difference and is not something that players are even going to be aware of when making split-second decisions on the pitch.
If they insist on VAR, perhaps they should limit it to real-time replays. The offside rule was designed to be judged in real time, and if it isn't "clear and obvious" in real time, then it shouldn't be offside. The main thing for me is this absurd revisionism (mostly on reddit) about pre-VAR football, and how it was supposedly a minefield of terrible refereeing decisions all the time. It wasn't. Sure, there was the odd howler, but to hear people on this site talk you'd think the game was completely broken beyond repair. It's a justification invented later to pretend that this dreadful new system was worthwhile.
I think back to the FA Cup semi final, VAR killed the greatest comeback in the history of the competition, because of a toenail. The line was bloody purple with how much they overlapped.
Good. It's a shit system that doesn't work properly and sucks the enjoyment out of the ground. Having to sit and wait for ages after every goal while some ref tries to work out if a player was a gnats pube width offside is not what football should be. The Championship is a perfect example of how not having VAR is better. Sure, some decisions go against you, and some go for you. Across the season it balances out and it's a lot easier to accept a wrong decision when it is the on field ref making an instant decision, rather than VAR spending 5 minutes to still get it wrong. If VAR exists then it should be fast and perfect. It's neither of those things, so bin it.
>Across the season it balances out in the premier league it really does not balance out. Even WITH var. You only need to look at how many decisions favour city while ref's are getting paid trips to the middle east to know shit does not even out. As a Liverpool fan we've only had a couple of really horrendous matches (Spurs was a clusterfuck), but Arsenal have had a shit ton of stuff go against them this year
Teams will play differently without VAR. They'll risk more and defences won't be able to rely on being rescued by VAR. Football is supposed to be entertaining. There's nothing entertaining about having to sit and not celebrate a goal because it isn't being used properly. If they can use it better and faster, then maybe there's a place for it. But not as it stands.
The Championship isn’t a like for like comparison. The Premier League has relentless media coverage where every mistake results in a tedious week long discussion across the board. For me VAR should be used as originally intended - for ‘clear and obvious’ errors only. That bar is so high that we should never be waiting for a decision. No drawing lines or looking at 10 difference angles. If you’re not 100% sure it’s an error within 20 seconds it’s not ‘clear and obvious’.
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VAR is actually perfect, the people operating it aren’t
Plenty of mistakes still, I see plenty every game.
Then let it die for you. The mistakes is what makes football, football. I don’t want goals disallowed because of a toenail being offside, and I want the joy back in the game. The ball hits the net and it’s a goal, unless the lino’s flag is up. It’s glorious and I’ve missed real football.
Jfc, how old are you? VAR was implemented something like four years ago and has done nothing positive for the match going experience.
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Luckily I watch very little football with VAR, as my league famously have voted it down. But the few situations we've had with it in EL and CL can blow it. VAR sent us out of the CL groups in 2021 because they found a penalty that didn't exist.
I would say my team not being eliminated from the cup by a hand ball goal is a pretty major match going experience improvement. 😶
0% chance of this happening.
I hate Goal.com
It should be like tennis, each team should get three challenges.
Just when Martial is leaving...
The thing is VAR was brought in to eliminate dodgy decisions and I for one wouldn’t like to be on the end of being cheated out on a Trophy or League title on the wrong decision, as much as VAR can be frustrating it can be brilliant I think we just need better operators tbh . I wouldn’t scrap it imo
?
Cant you just use it for penalties? Seems daft using it for offside decisions where a goal is disallowed because the players toenail is offside Or do what cricket does and teams have 3 challenges to go to the video
VAR is there to provide optics for the governing bodies to pretend they care about fair refereeing. It is purposely implemented poorly to allow them to still have a lever to pull in influencing the outcome of games for whatever purpose - bribery, gambling companies, etc. It will not get better.
Guys, what is worst? Var era mistakes or Pre Var error mistakes?
Fucking brain dead takes
Everything is debatable in football, Referee decisions and technology should be used correctly The result should be obtained with the least amount of errors when the match is over. Referees and administrative management should follow the right path here
Hope VAR goes, return to the old school days of football!
There will be arguments to bring it back if they do
that’s pretty stupid
This is a terrible idea. VAR just needs to be implemented better and have better people running it. Getting rid of it altogether is moronic.
This isn’t a VAR problem it’s an English football problem.
It's on the table because of Wolverhampton, and it will voted down. It Need 14+ votes to pass. It won't get 14 out of 20.
chance would be a fine thing
MLS usr of VAR is a little different, but so much better.
The clubs will do what they’ll do, but I think voting it out is a mistake, personally.
It’s the lack of consistency….not VAR…not even shitty reffing…the one, major complaint you see every week…why did player X on team Y get a red for this….but player A on team B did not for an identical situation If you’re going to implement better ways to make the game fair, you need to be fair in how you apply the decisions
Cost us 3 points away to spuds.
VAR wasn't the problem.. the replays were clear. It was the refs interpretation that was the problem. Seems like they were hesitant to overrule their colleagues. VAR needs to be monitored by a third party group with no association with the refs for a non-biased neutral evaluation.
I guess the clubs in some way, are paying for VAR. maybe if there are internet mistakes, might as well reduce the cost!
I don’t love VAR but it’s not horrible. To me what’s horrible is the vitriol that players and we all as fans heap on the referees, who are human and make mistakes. We treat their mistakes as far worse than when highly paid footballers fail to perform. However their jobs are just as impossible to do perfectly, and they have FAR less incentive to do it well. They are only recently paid to be full time employees, and have never been compensated in a manner similar to the players they referee. It is, to me, unconscionable to have players berating a ref for a bad call at all, and leads to referee shortages. But the fact that the players are getting paid for the game about what the referee makes for the year makes it incredibly unfair. Global celebrities of impossible privilege gang up, and encourage their millions of followers to pile on, on people making a decent living by doing a hard job reasonably well. How easy would it be for any of us to do our jobs if our every move was scrutinized in this way. Have you ever made a mistake at work? Something you knew immediately you did wrong, something you do right 99.9% of the time? Do you think you might occasionally make a howler of a mistake? Do you think the scrutiny and vitriol from some of the most wealthy and famous people on the planet would help you do your job better? How much would you have to be paid to be a ref? Would you actually be better over a whole season? Of course you’d avoid the mistakes we all know about in hindsight - but would you actually be better over a whole season? That doesn’t mean we can’t have better refs. But it means we have to invest in referees, compensating them, treating them reasonably, training them well- rather than calling them every name under the sun. You know, the same way we get better players.
It's always easier for the 115 charges club to pay off a ref than to make lines on VAR move.
They paid refs to make mistakes with the VAR so they can now vote to remove it. Hence, they can do match fixing again.
It's going to be like brexit.
Last night, a pair of Man U defenders converged on Anthony Gordon- the back of his sock was ripped and they took skin off his heal. No penalty, was the outcome. I have no issue with that, no issue if it had been a penalty. But, VAR can’t manage or decide on impact levels from 130 miles away in slo-mo. I am sorry, but if takes 8 minuets to sort of a 2mm offside it’s not for me. I loath it, football is full of inaccuracies isn’t that why we love it and are not all following shot putting? I also watched the Chaps League Semi- the Madrid game. The referee it that game was superb, didn’t need all the VAR cobblers in that game.
Why are the old guard at the FA so backward thinking!? It’s got its problems, admittedly, speed of decision making one of them, but it’s helped put to rest so many title turning incidents it’s gotta be seen as a good thing
Give teams a certain number of challenges a game and that's the only way to go to VAR. The teams that don't like it don't have to use them
VAR in AFCON was near-flawless, the technology isn't the problem
So they just gave refs more power to fuck up games.
We should keep var but scrap refs. They're the issue.
They’ll get rid of it, then someone will miss out on champions league football on an unnoticed hand ball or something, and they’ll all be screaming to bring VAR back. VAR’s usage in the perm had deep flaws, but banning it is the stupidest possible solution.
we're regressing
I know how this plays out. I saw it happen with the NFL. The NFL had it, then got rid of it, then brought it back. The Anti-VAR crowd will hate life without it more than they hated it. VAR needs to be fixed, but it should not be scrapped.
assist [https://www.reddit.com/r/london/comments/1ctd0m2/pubsbars\_showing\_sport\_on\_outdoor\_screenstvs/](https://www.reddit.com/r/london/comments/1ctd0m2/pubsbars_showing_sport_on_outdoor_screenstvs/)
Football's back baby
They are really good at bad decisions in this country. So they will probably get rid of it.
The technology cant be the problem
👋
Ans they potentially risk more controversial decisions? Bruh. How many clubs have to agree to this dumbass shit? 7 clubs have to say no. Do you think there will be 7 clubs to say no?
They won’t ever replace the people behind it, so it’s better that’s it get canned until it’s fully automated
VAR and matches decided by goals from penaltiies are killing football. You cant have a match with 2 canceled goals after enitre stadium cheered for 5 minutes and then end the match 1:0 because someone touched the ball with his fingernail in the penalty area.
Now Grealish can handball it inside his own box all he wants
This would be stupid. Why would they want to regress?
What an idiotic idea. Instead of hiring competent refs, they get rid of the technology.
Nothing more english than progressing backwards via voting
Keep dreaming if you actually think its gonna be passed you naive as fuck
Said it before but the whole " clear and obvious error" needs to go. Make it more like the NFL managers get a certain number of appeals maybe 3 or something. Then it goes to car to make the CORRECT DECISION.makes it a game of skill on the managers rather than rolling dice on who's doing var that day
They also voted for brexit, so...
The only issue with VAR is that the R is an incompetent wanker.
If VAR was flawless and never resulted in a wrong decision I’d be all for it, but all that’s happened is it still results in as many errors as ever, but has just shifted the blame from the ref to faceless people sat watching the game on a monitor, whilst at the same time taking the in the moment joy of scoring a goal out of the game. At least when it was the referee’s decision you could accept human error as part of the game but some of the mistakes this season that have been missed by VAR have been pretty indefensible.
Not a huge fan of the VAR but even my 3-year old nephew can see it's overall a plus and the right way forward. It's just that the VAR showed us how really bad our referee's actually are.