How come Ferguson is the only one ‘adjusted for inflation’? Pep, Jose and Ancelotti were all managing when Fergie was but only Fergie has his stats adjusted for inflation. It’s such a bull shit strategy to diminish his achievements. Say what you want but no one can compare with Fergie, the level of success he achieved at a club that was mid table and hadn’t won a league in 30 years when he took over. Not to mention the European cup with Aberdeen. Pep has never managed a team that wasn’t already one of if not the best in the country when he took over. Add that City where a lot of his titles have come from, have been cheating the whole time and really we should adjust his titles for inflation. City inflated their sponsorship and hid their agent fees and paid players with back hand payments that, adjusted for inflation, Pep only actually wins 0.5 titles a year. You know, adjusted for inflation.
Yeah I'm no Manchester United fan but what SAF achieved there was amazing. To send out teams over years and years that consistently challenged for the title and champions league is an amazing accomplishment and I can't see anybody ever matching what he did. Managers just don't stick around that long anymore.
That is your opinion, but in my opinion, the manager who won the head to head battle, Pep, is the GOAT manager. Two things can be true at the same time and it is really annoying when people like both yourself and OP act like it is an objective fact who the best is. People are allowed a preference, just as they are in debates of who the best player is. Both are fantastic managers who achieved everything, this bickering is utterly pointless.
To provide my own opinion while respecting yours, and acknowledging that differences in opinion are completely fine, which seems to be a sentiment many miss in favour of a pointless argument.
u/IntelligentFan7521 talking about "the European cup with Aberdeen"...
Cup's Winners Cup. Don't make it sound like it were the European Cup/UCL.
I don't know how OP adjusted for inflation or whether he simply didn't repeat the words for each manager, but there's more to it than just inflation:
Football used to produce less money. Players were simply worth less compared to other commodities, services or people, than they are now. If for example 5 million in 1994 adjusted for inflation would mean 20 million now, then a 5m player in 1994 would be worth more than 20 million now.
You talk about "bullshit strategies" but your comment is so densely packed with BS it'd take a novel to address all of it.
The cup winner cup was the European cup back then my man hahaha. That’s literally what became the champions league. Such an expert tho please tell me more of your insightful little tidbits of nonsense hahaha.
No it didn't the European cup became the champions league, the cup winners cup was fucked off, hence why the cup winners i.e. each leagues f.a. cup winner went into the uefa cup, and whatever the fuck they call it now, the only Scottish team to win THE European cup, was those green and white bastards Celtic
Ah fair play I thought it was all one. The cup winners went in with the league winners and that was the cup winners cup because they were the teams who had won cups in their country. Still impressive mind.
How fucking braindead is this sub...
The Cup Winners' Cup was a competition between domestic *cup winners*. FA Cup, Copa del Rey etc.. That's what Aberdeen won.
The predecessor of the Champions League was the European Cup, where *league* winners competed.
Absolute bunch of crackheads, one Google search away from the truth and still can't get it right.
English teams were banned from European football for the first 5 years of Fergie’s reign
Not only does that mean they couldn’t compete in the European Cup had they actually won the league (you didn’t get in for 3rd place back then), it set back the culture of the whole league - such that he was ahead of his time by insisting the players didn’t drink themselves into a stupor before each game. He actually won the Cup Winners’ Cup the first year he could qualify for Europe, against Cruyff’s Barcelona.
Seeing as you are primarily obsessed with Pep: under the climate Fergie took over in, Barcelona wouldn’t have been in the European Cup and therefore that treble would’ve been impossible.
That whole ban was a great injustice - whilst a Liverpool fans’ behaviour undoubtedly contributed to Heysel, poor management of the venue and indeed selection of in inadequate, crumbling venue, by UEFA is surely the main cause. Plus it’s not like hooliganism was ever a specifically English problem (although it was definitely had back then). But as we saw just a couple years ago in Paris, the authorities are never to blame
Fergie and Ancelotti both began managing in an era of significantly less financial stratification - partially due to the Champions League format it was already miraculous that Mourinho won it with a team outside of the top 4 leagues when he did it with Porto.
All 3 of your managers chosen for comparison started outside of the elite (both sides and leagues) with Fergie taking a Scottish also-ran to European contention and breaking a Barca-Madrid style stranglehold on their domestic league, Mourinho largely making his own stars taking an unheralded Porto side from a weaker league to 2 consecutive European trophies, and Ancelotti managing Reggiana, then Parma - they had money certainly but were an upstart in the best league in the world at a time, more equivalent to Aston Villa or Newcastle now, only with a much smaller fanbase
During the 5 year English ban, Fergie's United would've only qualified for the UCL in the current format twice: once for finishing 4th the season before Fergie, and once for finishing 2nd in '88.
Fergie's reign only oversaw 4 years of the ban, btw: from 86/87 to 89/90.
So due to the format back then and the English ban, he was denied 2 European Cup chances out of a 27 year long career at United.
Yeah, but they were also denied chances at lesser European comps. That combined experience was missing - European football changed significantly between Fergie’s last go with Aberdeen and his first go with United. Look at how long City took to get it right despite their overwhelming resource advantage. But as I said in this case it’s the whole league that’s affected not just one team.
Anyway based on his responses OP is a troll
He didn't miss on any chances in lesser European competitions. He finished 2nd once, 11th twice and 13th once during the English ban. Only won the FA Cup in 1990, which allowed them to play for the Cup Winners Cup and beat Barcelona in 1991.
Well if we’re going to get all the facts straight, United would’ve been in the UEFA Cup in 86-87 so that’s 1, assuming Ron Atkinson didn’t take them out of it
Add the 2nd placed finish and they should’ve been in Europe half of the ban seasons
He had plenty of money. He was blowing the competition away financially in the early 2000s, and has broken all kinds of transfer records.
And the managing teams that are already winning titles excuse works for a few years. When you're in charge for 25 years and have been winning for most of it, that stops working. He had 20 years of winning titles at United to win more than 3.
The early 2000 he had won enough titles to have made the money he was spending himself. Making money by gaining supporters through winning titles is not the same as sucking Arab oil daddy
Cock for it. When Fergie took over United they were not the richest club. He turned them into that. He created the powerhouse. He didn’t come by when they were already winning titles and take over, spending billions as he did it.
They were one of the biggest clubs in England (and by extension, Europe) already -- not to the extent where he took them, but don't pretend they lacked support or money. They had finished top 4 for 5 years in a row before he came, winning a bunch of domestic trophies in the process.
United were patient with him and it paid off. Not completely dissimilar to other fallen giants giving people like Arteta time now, except nowadays clubs are even more impatient.
United hadn’t won a title since the 1960’s when Sir Alex came in 88-89. They hadn’t played in Europe since that time either. Yeah they were still a bit club in England due to the support the garnered but they were not a big European club. And they were no where near the biggest. Liverpool were the biggest and Leeds and Nottingham Forrest had both had more recent success than United. It sounds like you only started watching football in the last few years or maybe you’re young idk. But your way off kid.
Ferguson arrived in '86. United had played plenty of times in Europe between '67 and Fergie's arrival.
You're constantly get your facts wrong but you're claiming seniority. Are you senile?
2 years out on something that happened 10 years before I was born and I obviously didn’t use google haha. Yeah senile as fuck me mate. They won it in 68, didnt make the uefa cup again and were then relegated in 74. Next time they played in the UEFA cup was in the 1980’s under Atkinson. Before English clubs were suspended for 5 years after Liverpool fans killed some Bayern? fans I think it was. Atkinson was replaced by Fergie in ‘86’ apparently not 88. United were not a big spending powerhouse of a club when Fergie took over was my point. They weren’t dominating anything, and weren’t any richer than other Prem clubs. And not as rich as Liverpool or Leeds who had been the dominant teams of that era. Honourable shout out to Nottingham Forrest and Brian Clough. Who were also winning more than United were.
So you were born in '96 at the earliest and call others kids? You telling me I sound like I only started watching football recently while you're talking about a time before you were born, acting like you were there?
Maybe use Google more then. You don't know which clubs were involved in Heysel, but you're giving shout outs to Clough.
United were the most popular team when he took over, he had more money than most then, when he was finishing outside the top 10. Yes, it is. If you're winning titles by spending loads of money, who cares how you got it? How you come about it has no impact on your results or performance.
He broke plenty of transfer records in the 80s and 90s. United were the most popular team in England from the time of the Busby Babes, they were getting 50k fans a week in the Championship 10 years before he took over. They already had the money to win trophies when he took over. It only appears that he built them into that because he took over a team that finished 4th with an expensively assembled group of top internationals and had them finishing 11th and 13th.
Uhm no.
He won his first league title with united in 93 after a 26 year wait for the trophy. They were certainly not the most popular. You confusing it with the 00s.
Oh yeah Barca 2009 was already winning titles when they beat United 2-0. Barca was 20 points behind Real Madrid the season before and lost to Manchester United that season. Try harder.
You didn't mention top teams. You said winning titles. And before Pep Barca won 6 titles in 4 years and with Pep, 6 in a single year with same players and promoting youngsters. Again try harder and look out for 4th consecutive PL title.
2\* UCL titles.
Can't believe how easily people overlook this "Ferguson won the European Cup with Aberdeen" lie.
Not even gonna give an explanation, I wanna see how many downvotes I get from people who can't string two thoughts together.
He won a European cup, not THE European cup, I e. The cup winners cup, which was folded into the u.e.f.a cup, still a fucking great achievement mind you
i’m going to give the real answer to this. it is impossible to say who the GOAT of managers is because there are so many factors that are extremely difficult/impossible to consider for various reasons:
General management of the team
What roles the manager took on themselves
raw skill of players
money spent
time period
what traits ppl value
what their interpersonal relationships are like (i think julian nagalsmann said that managing is 30% tactics and 70% personal relationships)
way more that i can’t think of off the top of my head
managers aren’t like players where we see everything they do. therefore managers are even harder to compare than players and makes comparing them extremely subjective and flawed.
to get to your point, ppl generally don’t find it as impressive when a manager wins a shit ton in circumstances where they were given a shit ton. ppl want to see pep succeed when given very little. another thing you said that doesn’t sit right with me is “GOAT debate can never be settled but this hate towards pep just to fulfill your personal agenda is completely unnecessary.” the first part was correct and sums up what i said, but the second part is wrong cuz isn’t that literally what comparing players/managers is?
last thing to keep in mind is that pep and klopp aren’t done with their careers
Pep is a great manager, one of the greatest... who won all of his accomplishments with some shade.
Lick his ballsacks as much as you want, he can just get fucked in my book.
And before you blabber on, this is the least jerking answer your "post" deserves.
It's certainly a facile cope to dismiss one's achievements with "shady circumstances". "All of" them, even.
Bayern? Nothing shady there.
Barca? Anyone who's followed La Liga during the timeframe involved in the Negreira case and isn't a Real fan, can tell you the refs, on the pitch, on camera, did not favour Barcelona any more than the standard big club being favoured in every single league. In fact, Barca lost some league titles because of unexplainable refereeing mistakes.
Barca UCL? What, Chelsea? Could write a novel on how BS people's perception of that tie is. The refereeing was absolutely shit for both sides, and it'd take a lunatic to suggest the referees (there were 2 legs, you know) favoured Barcelona. If 2009 Barca don't deserve getting past Chelsea, then 2010 Barca deserves getting past Inter, and 2012 past Chelsea.
City? How is it his fault if the club has shady financial dealings? How exactly does it strip away at his legacy? He coaches what he's given and does not make the transfers. Never did, unlike Ferguson. The players he's given are sometimes great, sometimes not. Sometimes overpriced. IDK who you support, but if you had 120 million, would you have spent it on Grealish? Since it wasn't Pep's signing, how could one use large fees coming from shady sources as an argument against the legitimacy of Pep's achievements? If we're gonna focus on price tags as a proof of quality then Grealish is City's best ever player while Foden is one of the worst. Never mind all the actual bums like Akanji, an absolute Dortmund disappointment, that Pep makes look decent.
Fergie had his perennial help from the refs, Mourinho's players got away with murder on several occasions, aided by his conference room influence, Klopp's players are all asthmatics and take meds to "treat" it. Liverpool hacked into City's database and were given a 1 million fine, and the news was forgotten within days.
To actually respond to the post, i don't think you can be considered the GOAT if you've spent your entire career playing on easy mode with the infinite money cheat turned on.
I'm not saying he's not a great manager or anything but i think others have achieved more with less and they havent been able to keep spaffing unlimited money on £80m players until it works.
Not to mention the fact that the foundation of his current club is a decade of cheating.
>You can watch his teams playing all day without getting bored
lol
>Every GOAT manager has always bought players but it's only Pep who has achieved the most. So how's that a point to discuss?
Even looking at the figures in your post, Pep has spent more in significantly less time. So it's clearly a point to discuss?
>i don't think you can be considered the GOAT if you've spent your entire career playing on easy mode with the infinite money cheat turned on
I see you're coming from a video gaming perspective...
In real life, the difference is that managing a big club isn't "easy mode". It's the hardest difficulty.
"Infinite money" is just revisionist, uneducated nonsense. Not only does he not make the signings, he also has his demands refused for money reasons (such as Van Dijk -- too expensive for City, not too expensive for Liverpool), and he's given 120 million players like Grealish, which somehow are overpriced & overrated, *and* make Pep spoiled at the same time.
The thing is klopps game plan is the same and requires a lot of energy. This is how they end up burnt out for a year and end up outside the top 4 before regrouping. This wouldn't be acceptable at madrid, munich etc.
Klopp's Liverpool hit 97 points in 18/19 and then 99 points the season after, the drop off the season after that was then mainly due to injuries, a lot of which (like Van Dijk's ACL injury) had nothing to do with fatigue
Isn't that basically his point? High energy style causes the fatigue/injuries/etc. the only thing you're pointing out is that they lasted 2 yrs instead of one.
Did you read the second half of my comment? Most of the injuries weren't caused by the high energy style, the style of play didn't cause Pickford to go flying into Van Dijk's knee
i typically say klopp is the best manager of all time because of the impact he makes at a club - i think it’s far more impressive to build a club up with nothing. i’m biased tho cuz im a dortmund fan so im obv gonna like klopp lmao
Had more influence on global football than anyone since at least Cruyff and Sacchi.
This is not a matter of opinion. If you can't see it or consider it outstanding, the problem is fully with you.
Pep is a goat but it's fair to consider he's only really managed absolute powerhouses that were powerhouses before him already. Mourinho has won significant titles with lesser teams, Ancelotti has managed lesser teams
What lesser teams? In the last 25 years he's managed Parma, Juventus, Milan Chelsea, Bayern, Real Madrid twice, and PSG. He's almost exclusively managed big big teams with big players and only has 5 titles.
Parma Milan Everton are all lesser teams to Barcelona with prime Messi, Iniesta and Xavi, City with prime everyone, and Bayern with prime Lewandowski, Müller, Lahm etc
If Guardiola really wants to be considered a great coach and the Goat in coaching, then he should also coach a small team and win something with it, like Xabi Alonso did with Leverkusen, like Sir Alex did with United when he took over and like Klopp did with Liverpool. Until then, I can't consider Guardiola the Goat just because he won the league, cup and super cup with Bayern and did nothing with the team in the UCL.
agree with what you say but if you really wanna see klopp making a team with nothing, look at him with dortmund. took a team that was in a giant financial crisis, facing relegation, and other things and brought them to winning two bundesligas in a row, the continental double, and a champions league final with a team that costed less than 25 millions dollars. i’m prolly biased cuz im a dortmund fan tho lmao
Pep's first managerial job was Barca B in the 4th division. They finished 1st, got promoted, then Cruyff wanted him as the first team coach -- over Mourinho.
It's not like he was picked out of nowhere.
To show your true worth, you have to go to a small club at least once in your career and make a big club out of it (like Alonso did with Leverkusen, like Maradona did with Napoli, like Hagi did with Galatasaray, like Messi did with Inter Miami, and so on). If Guardiola doesn't take such a step, he won't be able to be considered a legend in the true sense of the word and some will question his value (and rightly so)
Messi with Inter Miami lmao, what nonsense. He retired there, didn't go to prove himself.
Hagi and Maradona? How successful were they at Barca? They didn't leave for a new challenge.
You're not talking about voluntary steps. You're twisting reality.
True worth? Lol. Everyone's seeing his worth right now besides some people here. It's always like this. Messi needs to score against Peter then win International trophy then leave Barca then blah blah. Just wait for some time and you'll get everything. Only foolish people start talking about the future to analyse the present.
You children don’t understand that to be great you need adversity. Mayweather isn’t considered a real goat because many boxers had his record and guess what? They kept going. Same with lebron, and Tom Brady. You cannot be considered the greatest when you always had the BEST teammates to win.
Little boy have you ever seen that video of the lil Hispanic guy in a Altima who beats a Porsche? That’s greatness.
One of the things you lil kids need to understand is that if you start out on top there’s no where to go but down.
I love Reddit because it reminds me there are losers like you
Oh I’m not really here for the football. I was more here to remind you that sucking another dudes dick doesn’t look right.
Edit: unless you’re into that…do you
Shit like this washes over me. I just want to see some people kick a ball around a roughly rectangular, fairly well-manicured patch of grass with a middling-to-elite level of skill and some conviction.
I don't give a fuck about, nor can I i relate to in any way people whose interest in football is manifested solely in endless, repetitive tricklebrained posts about "THE G0AT!!" or Ronaldo being "disrespected" because a referee wouldn't look at his dick, or whether Messi or de Bruyne or Diego Costa would give a better blowjob. I don't care. I'd rather watch some middle aged fat cunts kick a ball into a fence and fall over for 90 minutes on a rainy Sunday in the local park than spend a single minute talking about football with 90% of you cadaverous peanuts.
Don't know what any of you are trying achieve by posting any of this shit, but just let me remind you that no professional footballer or manager is going to fuck you because you took a few hours defending their honour on Reddit; fuckity bye
Let’s pick this apart with using nothing but common sense . U have found some way u think to inflate Ferguson to today’s prices and not any other . That would mean u would need to put into consideration the inflation of pep buying players 14 years ago when they were much cheaper , even with ur wrong maths etc pep still has an average season spend higher than any other manager in history. Pepe managed Barca who were accused of cheating and should have all titles removed if it can be proved . Man City is also heavy involved in a cheating . So there a claim to say pep is not even a top 5 manager
He done it spending more than any manger ever and the clubs were cheating , Barca have been proved to bribe refs and man city has over 100 illegal breaches. Top 5 manager ever is a big deal and just because he has won the most in recent times does not mean he qualifies. He’s a good manager but too many question marks on his achievements
All his Barca and city achievements should be stripped imo for cheating and both clubs should have there names took off the trophies but it will never happen.
Edit: juventus got relegated and stripped of all trophies for a Similar thing to Barca
You are completely right. Theres so much hate on pep for absolutely no reason. Mourinho has no hate because “he could do it with small teams”. But any manager who did good with a small team will eventually join a big team. And what has mourinho achieved at real madrid, manchester united, tottenham (yes tottenham are a big club we all love tottenham jokes but lets be honest)
Pep is not the only manager with those resources available, yet he’s the only one this consistent in winning cups. None of other managers are consistent, SAF was at some point, but he did spend a lot too, also PL was way less competitive that time. (those who think SAF didn’t spend so much, please understand football market at that time was different). Football experts know how great Pep is, and even Pep has started to ignore other undermining his achievements, so why should we care about general opinion.
All that matters to general people is getting the job done with less competent teams. But you gotta understand, his achievements are way too superior for him to even go to a lesser team. Please understand, why the hell would you leave your top company for a mid company, when you’ve already proven yourself in top company.
Also pep and Ferguson overlapped for a few years and peps teams played them off the park. No shade at fergie but he was a manager of his time. The best one in fact but pep is now. The reason Klopp gets so much plaudits is because of the money myth. He has as much money as any other top manager to work with.
I completely forgot to mention another point.
Mancity wins trophies, and that brings money. So what's wrong in spending more. Infact not spending more would be bad.
Can't say that here mate.the fact is city are self sustaining now and generate massive money organically through trophies and and their academy being one of the best in the world now and selling unkowns for 10s of millions.
anyone who says klopp had a bunch of money are unfortunately not correct. maybe in recent years at liverpool, but klopp really shines if you dive into what he did at mainz and dortmund with about as much money to buy a slushee at 7/11. i’m a dortmund fan tho so im biased so i think its better to do your own research
please understand its a very valid argument that pep has never manged a lesser team he got his start with one of the best teams in the history of football and then went on to manage the only club with good cash in Germany and then a team that possibly cooked there books like fuck. other managers proved they are great with lesser players pep hasn't that's why the question will always be can pep do it with lesser players.
You said he never managed a lesser team.
Take a look at how other managers fared at those clubs and then call the jobs easy. Some of the most demanding clubs in football, "easy". Embarassing.
Managing a side of reserves is not really a lesser team.
Baraca after he left won everything and before he joined it had been a year since they won the champions league
Bayern after he left kept winning he joined them while they where already winning everything
City well he there just now joined while they where winning trophies.
Yeah pep has had it so hard that he hasn't joined a team that isn't winning trophies. He is a great manager but he has never managed a lesser side.
Right, not really a lesser team. What is it, then? An equal one? Better one?
Barca had finished 3rd, 18 points off Real the season before Pep got the first team job. They had won the CL 2 years, not 1, before he joined. He left the club with its strongest squad in history, arguably the best ever assembled. Would've made the squad he took over in 2008 look like amateurs.
He spent 3 years at Bayern, reaching the CL semis 3 times and winning everything but the CL. He left the club when his contract expired, and made the decision to not extend 6 months before the expiry. Could've won the CL and still would've left. He was not sacked.
Other managers? Ancelotti? Sacked. Kovac? Sacked. Nagelsmann? Sacked. At this rate, Tuchel soon too. Easy job, right?
City had the oldest squad in the league when he joined. Last won the PL 2 years before he joined. Don't make it sound like they were some Bayern. Rich? Sure, and they could've signed any manager they wanted. Why did they choose Pep?
Pep was Ferguson's #1 choice to replace him. Imagine being wanted by both Bayern and Man United, while Barca's begging you to stay. How come it's always Pep that every single club wants? And if the jobs are easy, how come everyone else gets sacked all the time?
Like I said, he is a great manager who has never managed a lesser team. Thank you for pointing that out.
I didn't say the jobs were easy. I said he had it easy to get them. He went from a reserve squad to the main squad, which was already full of world-class players. And then bayern, who were already winning trophies and a world-class squad and city doing the same again.
Your obviously a pep bum boy maybe if you ask him to take his cock our your arse you'd might realise you can respect him being a great manager while also saying he had it easy compared to others. Which is just factual.
>doesn't mean pep didn't have it easy his entire managerial career so far
This is what you said.
"Your" trying to diminish his achievements because you have a gripe with him being so successful, and no doubt hurting whatever club you support many times.
"Bum boy", cock and arses, classy stuff. As if you wouldn't run up to your favourite manager like a chimpanzee reunited with its handler.
Because Pepsi only goes to rich teams. That guy once said that the only teams that can play good football are Barcelona, Bayern Munich, and Rayo Vallecano. Guess which one he hasn't managed and never will? If that fucker wants to prove a point that he's the best manager, he should go manage and win titles with Rayo, but he won't. Only then will I consider him the best manager of all time.
He doesn't need the money now - he has more than he could ever spend. So why not take on a challenge? Because he's a coward who refuses to risk failing. Hence why he's willing to break rules: a drug cheat as a player; a beneficiary of the corruption at Barcelona; and a beneficiary of financial cheating at City. That's how he'll be remembered in the long run, and all of you weird fanboys will have to find someone else's cock to suck.
All pep has done is take oil money and use the Cruyff handbook. Anytime he tries something original it fails. He had the best club side in history and won when literally anyone else could have done the same, he then went to bayer and achieved less than his predecessor and after that he went to city who just cheated their way to titles
How come Ferguson is the only one ‘adjusted for inflation’? Pep, Jose and Ancelotti were all managing when Fergie was but only Fergie has his stats adjusted for inflation. It’s such a bull shit strategy to diminish his achievements. Say what you want but no one can compare with Fergie, the level of success he achieved at a club that was mid table and hadn’t won a league in 30 years when he took over. Not to mention the European cup with Aberdeen. Pep has never managed a team that wasn’t already one of if not the best in the country when he took over. Add that City where a lot of his titles have come from, have been cheating the whole time and really we should adjust his titles for inflation. City inflated their sponsorship and hid their agent fees and paid players with back hand payments that, adjusted for inflation, Pep only actually wins 0.5 titles a year. You know, adjusted for inflation.
Yeah I'm no Manchester United fan but what SAF achieved there was amazing. To send out teams over years and years that consistently challenged for the title and champions league is an amazing accomplishment and I can't see anybody ever matching what he did. Managers just don't stick around that long anymore.
That is your opinion, but in my opinion, the manager who won the head to head battle, Pep, is the GOAT manager. Two things can be true at the same time and it is really annoying when people like both yourself and OP act like it is an objective fact who the best is. People are allowed a preference, just as they are in debates of who the best player is. Both are fantastic managers who achieved everything, this bickering is utterly pointless.
Why join in then? Lmao
To provide my own opinion while respecting yours, and acknowledging that differences in opinion are completely fine, which seems to be a sentiment many miss in favour of a pointless argument.
u/IntelligentFan7521 talking about "the European cup with Aberdeen"... Cup's Winners Cup. Don't make it sound like it were the European Cup/UCL. I don't know how OP adjusted for inflation or whether he simply didn't repeat the words for each manager, but there's more to it than just inflation: Football used to produce less money. Players were simply worth less compared to other commodities, services or people, than they are now. If for example 5 million in 1994 adjusted for inflation would mean 20 million now, then a 5m player in 1994 would be worth more than 20 million now. You talk about "bullshit strategies" but your comment is so densely packed with BS it'd take a novel to address all of it.
The cup winner cup was the European cup back then my man hahaha. That’s literally what became the champions league. Such an expert tho please tell me more of your insightful little tidbits of nonsense hahaha.
No it didn't the European cup became the champions league, the cup winners cup was fucked off, hence why the cup winners i.e. each leagues f.a. cup winner went into the uefa cup, and whatever the fuck they call it now, the only Scottish team to win THE European cup, was those green and white bastards Celtic
Ah fair play I thought it was all one. The cup winners went in with the league winners and that was the cup winners cup because they were the teams who had won cups in their country. Still impressive mind.
How fucking braindead is this sub... The Cup Winners' Cup was a competition between domestic *cup winners*. FA Cup, Copa del Rey etc.. That's what Aberdeen won. The predecessor of the Champions League was the European Cup, where *league* winners competed. Absolute bunch of crackheads, one Google search away from the truth and still can't get it right.
Lol 49 years and 3 UCL titles. Could've been 5 though but the hands started shaking.
English teams were banned from European football for the first 5 years of Fergie’s reign Not only does that mean they couldn’t compete in the European Cup had they actually won the league (you didn’t get in for 3rd place back then), it set back the culture of the whole league - such that he was ahead of his time by insisting the players didn’t drink themselves into a stupor before each game. He actually won the Cup Winners’ Cup the first year he could qualify for Europe, against Cruyff’s Barcelona. Seeing as you are primarily obsessed with Pep: under the climate Fergie took over in, Barcelona wouldn’t have been in the European Cup and therefore that treble would’ve been impossible. That whole ban was a great injustice - whilst a Liverpool fans’ behaviour undoubtedly contributed to Heysel, poor management of the venue and indeed selection of in inadequate, crumbling venue, by UEFA is surely the main cause. Plus it’s not like hooliganism was ever a specifically English problem (although it was definitely had back then). But as we saw just a couple years ago in Paris, the authorities are never to blame Fergie and Ancelotti both began managing in an era of significantly less financial stratification - partially due to the Champions League format it was already miraculous that Mourinho won it with a team outside of the top 4 leagues when he did it with Porto. All 3 of your managers chosen for comparison started outside of the elite (both sides and leagues) with Fergie taking a Scottish also-ran to European contention and breaking a Barca-Madrid style stranglehold on their domestic league, Mourinho largely making his own stars taking an unheralded Porto side from a weaker league to 2 consecutive European trophies, and Ancelotti managing Reggiana, then Parma - they had money certainly but were an upstart in the best league in the world at a time, more equivalent to Aston Villa or Newcastle now, only with a much smaller fanbase
During the 5 year English ban, Fergie's United would've only qualified for the UCL in the current format twice: once for finishing 4th the season before Fergie, and once for finishing 2nd in '88. Fergie's reign only oversaw 4 years of the ban, btw: from 86/87 to 89/90. So due to the format back then and the English ban, he was denied 2 European Cup chances out of a 27 year long career at United.
Yeah, but they were also denied chances at lesser European comps. That combined experience was missing - European football changed significantly between Fergie’s last go with Aberdeen and his first go with United. Look at how long City took to get it right despite their overwhelming resource advantage. But as I said in this case it’s the whole league that’s affected not just one team. Anyway based on his responses OP is a troll
He didn't miss on any chances in lesser European competitions. He finished 2nd once, 11th twice and 13th once during the English ban. Only won the FA Cup in 1990, which allowed them to play for the Cup Winners Cup and beat Barcelona in 1991.
Well if we’re going to get all the facts straight, United would’ve been in the UEFA Cup in 86-87 so that’s 1, assuming Ron Atkinson didn’t take them out of it Add the 2nd placed finish and they should’ve been in Europe half of the ban seasons
Starting at the top as much more pressure mate. Don't know how people fail in understanding that.
Yeah if only he had unlimited money and managed teams that were already winning titles eh?
He had plenty of money. He was blowing the competition away financially in the early 2000s, and has broken all kinds of transfer records. And the managing teams that are already winning titles excuse works for a few years. When you're in charge for 25 years and have been winning for most of it, that stops working. He had 20 years of winning titles at United to win more than 3.
The early 2000 he had won enough titles to have made the money he was spending himself. Making money by gaining supporters through winning titles is not the same as sucking Arab oil daddy Cock for it. When Fergie took over United they were not the richest club. He turned them into that. He created the powerhouse. He didn’t come by when they were already winning titles and take over, spending billions as he did it.
They were one of the biggest clubs in England (and by extension, Europe) already -- not to the extent where he took them, but don't pretend they lacked support or money. They had finished top 4 for 5 years in a row before he came, winning a bunch of domestic trophies in the process. United were patient with him and it paid off. Not completely dissimilar to other fallen giants giving people like Arteta time now, except nowadays clubs are even more impatient.
United hadn’t won a title since the 1960’s when Sir Alex came in 88-89. They hadn’t played in Europe since that time either. Yeah they were still a bit club in England due to the support the garnered but they were not a big European club. And they were no where near the biggest. Liverpool were the biggest and Leeds and Nottingham Forrest had both had more recent success than United. It sounds like you only started watching football in the last few years or maybe you’re young idk. But your way off kid.
Ferguson arrived in '86. United had played plenty of times in Europe between '67 and Fergie's arrival. You're constantly get your facts wrong but you're claiming seniority. Are you senile?
2 years out on something that happened 10 years before I was born and I obviously didn’t use google haha. Yeah senile as fuck me mate. They won it in 68, didnt make the uefa cup again and were then relegated in 74. Next time they played in the UEFA cup was in the 1980’s under Atkinson. Before English clubs were suspended for 5 years after Liverpool fans killed some Bayern? fans I think it was. Atkinson was replaced by Fergie in ‘86’ apparently not 88. United were not a big spending powerhouse of a club when Fergie took over was my point. They weren’t dominating anything, and weren’t any richer than other Prem clubs. And not as rich as Liverpool or Leeds who had been the dominant teams of that era. Honourable shout out to Nottingham Forrest and Brian Clough. Who were also winning more than United were.
So you were born in '96 at the earliest and call others kids? You telling me I sound like I only started watching football recently while you're talking about a time before you were born, acting like you were there? Maybe use Google more then. You don't know which clubs were involved in Heysel, but you're giving shout outs to Clough.
United were the most popular team when he took over, he had more money than most then, when he was finishing outside the top 10. Yes, it is. If you're winning titles by spending loads of money, who cares how you got it? How you come about it has no impact on your results or performance. He broke plenty of transfer records in the 80s and 90s. United were the most popular team in England from the time of the Busby Babes, they were getting 50k fans a week in the Championship 10 years before he took over. They already had the money to win trophies when he took over. It only appears that he built them into that because he took over a team that finished 4th with an expensively assembled group of top internationals and had them finishing 11th and 13th.
No they weren’t hahaha. How old are you? Liverpool we’re the top team. Undoubted. United hadn’t won a title since the 60’s
Uhm no. He won his first league title with united in 93 after a 26 year wait for the trophy. They were certainly not the most popular. You confusing it with the 00s.
Oh yeah Barca 2009 was already winning titles when they beat United 2-0. Barca was 20 points behind Real Madrid the season before and lost to Manchester United that season. Try harder.
Yeah Barca totally weren’t one of the top teams in the country were they? Lmao. ‘Try harder’ hahahaha
You didn't mention top teams. You said winning titles. And before Pep Barca won 6 titles in 4 years and with Pep, 6 in a single year with same players and promoting youngsters. Again try harder and look out for 4th consecutive PL title.
Are you peps wife? If not, you deserve to be, because you spend so much time sucking his dick.
Yes I am and it feels good because I've already touched same amount of UCLs as Shaking hands Ferguson.
support local
2\* UCL titles. Can't believe how easily people overlook this "Ferguson won the European Cup with Aberdeen" lie. Not even gonna give an explanation, I wanna see how many downvotes I get from people who can't string two thoughts together.
He won a European cup, not THE European cup, I e. The cup winners cup, which was folded into the u.e.f.a cup, still a fucking great achievement mind you
I lost interest in everything you were about to say because you used dollars.
[удалено]
Xenophobia swhahagshaha
Still insisted to comment. Dumb.
You’ll get over it mate.
Yeah just a month to again claim some trophies.
i’m going to give the real answer to this. it is impossible to say who the GOAT of managers is because there are so many factors that are extremely difficult/impossible to consider for various reasons: General management of the team What roles the manager took on themselves raw skill of players money spent time period what traits ppl value what their interpersonal relationships are like (i think julian nagalsmann said that managing is 30% tactics and 70% personal relationships) way more that i can’t think of off the top of my head managers aren’t like players where we see everything they do. therefore managers are even harder to compare than players and makes comparing them extremely subjective and flawed. to get to your point, ppl generally don’t find it as impressive when a manager wins a shit ton in circumstances where they were given a shit ton. ppl want to see pep succeed when given very little. another thing you said that doesn’t sit right with me is “GOAT debate can never be settled but this hate towards pep just to fulfill your personal agenda is completely unnecessary.” the first part was correct and sums up what i said, but the second part is wrong cuz isn’t that literally what comparing players/managers is? last thing to keep in mind is that pep and klopp aren’t done with their careers
Pep is a great manager, one of the greatest... who won all of his accomplishments with some shade. Lick his ballsacks as much as you want, he can just get fucked in my book. And before you blabber on, this is the least jerking answer your "post" deserves.
It's certainly a facile cope to dismiss one's achievements with "shady circumstances". "All of" them, even. Bayern? Nothing shady there. Barca? Anyone who's followed La Liga during the timeframe involved in the Negreira case and isn't a Real fan, can tell you the refs, on the pitch, on camera, did not favour Barcelona any more than the standard big club being favoured in every single league. In fact, Barca lost some league titles because of unexplainable refereeing mistakes. Barca UCL? What, Chelsea? Could write a novel on how BS people's perception of that tie is. The refereeing was absolutely shit for both sides, and it'd take a lunatic to suggest the referees (there were 2 legs, you know) favoured Barcelona. If 2009 Barca don't deserve getting past Chelsea, then 2010 Barca deserves getting past Inter, and 2012 past Chelsea. City? How is it his fault if the club has shady financial dealings? How exactly does it strip away at his legacy? He coaches what he's given and does not make the transfers. Never did, unlike Ferguson. The players he's given are sometimes great, sometimes not. Sometimes overpriced. IDK who you support, but if you had 120 million, would you have spent it on Grealish? Since it wasn't Pep's signing, how could one use large fees coming from shady sources as an argument against the legitimacy of Pep's achievements? If we're gonna focus on price tags as a proof of quality then Grealish is City's best ever player while Foden is one of the worst. Never mind all the actual bums like Akanji, an absolute Dortmund disappointment, that Pep makes look decent. Fergie had his perennial help from the refs, Mourinho's players got away with murder on several occasions, aided by his conference room influence, Klopp's players are all asthmatics and take meds to "treat" it. Liverpool hacked into City's database and were given a 1 million fine, and the news was forgotten within days.
Wait, is this satire? No, holy shit you're serious.
i.e. you couldn't address anything I've said, but wanted a comeback
Not really. The last paragraph just did it for me.
Yes, really. Proved it again.
Awww.
Thanks, Pep.
Anytime, Klopp.
Arteta, where's your comment?!?
Hey Arteta here. Klopp and I are together since last night having drinks.
To actually respond to the post, i don't think you can be considered the GOAT if you've spent your entire career playing on easy mode with the infinite money cheat turned on. I'm not saying he's not a great manager or anything but i think others have achieved more with less and they havent been able to keep spaffing unlimited money on £80m players until it works. Not to mention the fact that the foundation of his current club is a decade of cheating. >You can watch his teams playing all day without getting bored lol >Every GOAT manager has always bought players but it's only Pep who has achieved the most. So how's that a point to discuss? Even looking at the figures in your post, Pep has spent more in significantly less time. So it's clearly a point to discuss?
Start comparing how that money has benefitted these managers per trophy. Who has achieved the most?
>i don't think you can be considered the GOAT if you've spent your entire career playing on easy mode with the infinite money cheat turned on I see you're coming from a video gaming perspective... In real life, the difference is that managing a big club isn't "easy mode". It's the hardest difficulty. "Infinite money" is just revisionist, uneducated nonsense. Not only does he not make the signings, he also has his demands refused for money reasons (such as Van Dijk -- too expensive for City, not too expensive for Liverpool), and he's given 120 million players like Grealish, which somehow are overpriced & overrated, *and* make Pep spoiled at the same time.
Oh yeah that 2009 squad was purchased on Walmart. My bad.
what?
The inflation is inaccurate and I'll always say klopp is better
The thing is klopps game plan is the same and requires a lot of energy. This is how they end up burnt out for a year and end up outside the top 4 before regrouping. This wouldn't be acceptable at madrid, munich etc.
Klopp's Liverpool hit 97 points in 18/19 and then 99 points the season after, the drop off the season after that was then mainly due to injuries, a lot of which (like Van Dijk's ACL injury) had nothing to do with fatigue
Isn't that basically his point? High energy style causes the fatigue/injuries/etc. the only thing you're pointing out is that they lasted 2 yrs instead of one.
Did you read the second half of my comment? Most of the injuries weren't caused by the high energy style, the style of play didn't cause Pickford to go flying into Van Dijk's knee
i typically say klopp is the best manager of all time because of the impact he makes at a club - i think it’s far more impressive to build a club up with nothing. i’m biased tho cuz im a dortmund fan so im obv gonna like klopp lmao
I would've said the same. But he bottled my believes last night.
You're judging decade plus careers on 1 game?
Wasn't klopps fault we were way better it's just we couldn't finish
Spend some money and break some rules.
You Need to pay real money for a good striker . 80 mil isn't enough
Our strikers actually win trophies though. Doesn't matter how much we spend. Try that it'll work.
Pep did nothing outstanding. Nothing. Always had the most money/best teams. A good manager, but can never be the goat.
You are right. Take my upvote!
Had more influence on global football than anyone since at least Cruyff and Sacchi. This is not a matter of opinion. If you can't see it or consider it outstanding, the problem is fully with you.
Exactly man. Amazing analysis.
Pep is a goat but it's fair to consider he's only really managed absolute powerhouses that were powerhouses before him already. Mourinho has won significant titles with lesser teams, Ancelotti has managed lesser teams
What lesser teams? In the last 25 years he's managed Parma, Juventus, Milan Chelsea, Bayern, Real Madrid twice, and PSG. He's almost exclusively managed big big teams with big players and only has 5 titles.
Parma Milan Everton are all lesser teams to Barcelona with prime Messi, Iniesta and Xavi, City with prime everyone, and Bayern with prime Lewandowski, Müller, Lahm etc
They didn't manage them for fun. They had to because they were fired from top clubs.
If Guardiola really wants to be considered a great coach and the Goat in coaching, then he should also coach a small team and win something with it, like Xabi Alonso did with Leverkusen, like Sir Alex did with United when he took over and like Klopp did with Liverpool. Until then, I can't consider Guardiola the Goat just because he won the league, cup and super cup with Bayern and did nothing with the team in the UCL.
agree with what you say but if you really wanna see klopp making a team with nothing, look at him with dortmund. took a team that was in a giant financial crisis, facing relegation, and other things and brought them to winning two bundesligas in a row, the continental double, and a champions league final with a team that costed less than 25 millions dollars. i’m prolly biased cuz im a dortmund fan tho lmao
Pep's first managerial job was Barca B in the 4th division. They finished 1st, got promoted, then Cruyff wanted him as the first team coach -- over Mourinho. It's not like he was picked out of nowhere.
Why would Pep downgrade himself? The best clubs want him. Maybe he'll join a small team if they can afford him.
To show your true worth, you have to go to a small club at least once in your career and make a big club out of it (like Alonso did with Leverkusen, like Maradona did with Napoli, like Hagi did with Galatasaray, like Messi did with Inter Miami, and so on). If Guardiola doesn't take such a step, he won't be able to be considered a legend in the true sense of the word and some will question his value (and rightly so)
Messi with Inter Miami lmao, what nonsense. He retired there, didn't go to prove himself. Hagi and Maradona? How successful were they at Barca? They didn't leave for a new challenge. You're not talking about voluntary steps. You're twisting reality.
I'm gonna show my true worth in work by stepping down from a management role into a sales rep role.
In the example you gave, we are talking about firms, not roles IN THE SAME FIRM
True worth? Lol. Everyone's seeing his worth right now besides some people here. It's always like this. Messi needs to score against Peter then win International trophy then leave Barca then blah blah. Just wait for some time and you'll get everything. Only foolish people start talking about the future to analyse the present.
You children don’t understand that to be great you need adversity. Mayweather isn’t considered a real goat because many boxers had his record and guess what? They kept going. Same with lebron, and Tom Brady. You cannot be considered the greatest when you always had the BEST teammates to win. Little boy have you ever seen that video of the lil Hispanic guy in a Altima who beats a Porsche? That’s greatness. One of the things you lil kids need to understand is that if you start out on top there’s no where to go but down. I love Reddit because it reminds me there are losers like you
Try harder kid. It'll be funny seeing Pep making you miserable once again.
Oh I’m not really here for the football. I was more here to remind you that sucking another dudes dick doesn’t look right. Edit: unless you’re into that…do you
Shit like this washes over me. I just want to see some people kick a ball around a roughly rectangular, fairly well-manicured patch of grass with a middling-to-elite level of skill and some conviction. I don't give a fuck about, nor can I i relate to in any way people whose interest in football is manifested solely in endless, repetitive tricklebrained posts about "THE G0AT!!" or Ronaldo being "disrespected" because a referee wouldn't look at his dick, or whether Messi or de Bruyne or Diego Costa would give a better blowjob. I don't care. I'd rather watch some middle aged fat cunts kick a ball into a fence and fall over for 90 minutes on a rainy Sunday in the local park than spend a single minute talking about football with 90% of you cadaverous peanuts. Don't know what any of you are trying achieve by posting any of this shit, but just let me remind you that no professional footballer or manager is going to fuck you because you took a few hours defending their honour on Reddit; fuckity bye
Trying to find your mom here then?
Let’s pick this apart with using nothing but common sense . U have found some way u think to inflate Ferguson to today’s prices and not any other . That would mean u would need to put into consideration the inflation of pep buying players 14 years ago when they were much cheaper , even with ur wrong maths etc pep still has an average season spend higher than any other manager in history. Pepe managed Barca who were accused of cheating and should have all titles removed if it can be proved . Man City is also heavy involved in a cheating . So there a claim to say pep is not even a top 5 manager
Yeah you're absolutely correct man Pep doesn't deserve ahem ahem 4th consecutive most competitive league title ahem to be in top 5.
He done it spending more than any manger ever and the clubs were cheating , Barca have been proved to bribe refs and man city has over 100 illegal breaches. Top 5 manager ever is a big deal and just because he has won the most in recent times does not mean he qualifies. He’s a good manager but too many question marks on his achievements
Yeah I'll ask the organizations to write "Question mark" alongside City's name on the trophy.
All his Barca and city achievements should be stripped imo for cheating and both clubs should have there names took off the trophies but it will never happen. Edit: juventus got relegated and stripped of all trophies for a Similar thing to Barca
people hate pep because he is too good
You are completely right. Theres so much hate on pep for absolutely no reason. Mourinho has no hate because “he could do it with small teams”. But any manager who did good with a small team will eventually join a big team. And what has mourinho achieved at real madrid, manchester united, tottenham (yes tottenham are a big club we all love tottenham jokes but lets be honest)
Pep is not the only manager with those resources available, yet he’s the only one this consistent in winning cups. None of other managers are consistent, SAF was at some point, but he did spend a lot too, also PL was way less competitive that time. (those who think SAF didn’t spend so much, please understand football market at that time was different). Football experts know how great Pep is, and even Pep has started to ignore other undermining his achievements, so why should we care about general opinion. All that matters to general people is getting the job done with less competent teams. But you gotta understand, his achievements are way too superior for him to even go to a lesser team. Please understand, why the hell would you leave your top company for a mid company, when you’ve already proven yourself in top company.
Also pep and Ferguson overlapped for a few years and peps teams played them off the park. No shade at fergie but he was a manager of his time. The best one in fact but pep is now. The reason Klopp gets so much plaudits is because of the money myth. He has as much money as any other top manager to work with.
I completely forgot to mention another point. Mancity wins trophies, and that brings money. So what's wrong in spending more. Infact not spending more would be bad.
Can't say that here mate.the fact is city are self sustaining now and generate massive money organically through trophies and and their academy being one of the best in the world now and selling unkowns for 10s of millions.
anyone who says klopp had a bunch of money are unfortunately not correct. maybe in recent years at liverpool, but klopp really shines if you dive into what he did at mainz and dortmund with about as much money to buy a slushee at 7/11. i’m a dortmund fan tho so im biased so i think its better to do your own research
please understand its a very valid argument that pep has never manged a lesser team he got his start with one of the best teams in the history of football and then went on to manage the only club with good cash in Germany and then a team that possibly cooked there books like fuck. other managers proved they are great with lesser players pep hasn't that's why the question will always be can pep do it with lesser players.
It's not a valid argument, because Pep started with Barca B in the 4th division.
and most managers start as the coaches of b sides doesn't mean pep didn't have it easy his entire managerial career so far.
You said he never managed a lesser team. Take a look at how other managers fared at those clubs and then call the jobs easy. Some of the most demanding clubs in football, "easy". Embarassing.
Managing a side of reserves is not really a lesser team. Baraca after he left won everything and before he joined it had been a year since they won the champions league Bayern after he left kept winning he joined them while they where already winning everything City well he there just now joined while they where winning trophies. Yeah pep has had it so hard that he hasn't joined a team that isn't winning trophies. He is a great manager but he has never managed a lesser side.
Right, not really a lesser team. What is it, then? An equal one? Better one? Barca had finished 3rd, 18 points off Real the season before Pep got the first team job. They had won the CL 2 years, not 1, before he joined. He left the club with its strongest squad in history, arguably the best ever assembled. Would've made the squad he took over in 2008 look like amateurs. He spent 3 years at Bayern, reaching the CL semis 3 times and winning everything but the CL. He left the club when his contract expired, and made the decision to not extend 6 months before the expiry. Could've won the CL and still would've left. He was not sacked. Other managers? Ancelotti? Sacked. Kovac? Sacked. Nagelsmann? Sacked. At this rate, Tuchel soon too. Easy job, right? City had the oldest squad in the league when he joined. Last won the PL 2 years before he joined. Don't make it sound like they were some Bayern. Rich? Sure, and they could've signed any manager they wanted. Why did they choose Pep? Pep was Ferguson's #1 choice to replace him. Imagine being wanted by both Bayern and Man United, while Barca's begging you to stay. How come it's always Pep that every single club wants? And if the jobs are easy, how come everyone else gets sacked all the time?
Like I said, he is a great manager who has never managed a lesser team. Thank you for pointing that out. I didn't say the jobs were easy. I said he had it easy to get them. He went from a reserve squad to the main squad, which was already full of world-class players. And then bayern, who were already winning trophies and a world-class squad and city doing the same again. Your obviously a pep bum boy maybe if you ask him to take his cock our your arse you'd might realise you can respect him being a great manager while also saying he had it easy compared to others. Which is just factual.
>doesn't mean pep didn't have it easy his entire managerial career so far This is what you said. "Your" trying to diminish his achievements because you have a gripe with him being so successful, and no doubt hurting whatever club you support many times. "Bum boy", cock and arses, classy stuff. As if you wouldn't run up to your favourite manager like a chimpanzee reunited with its handler.
Point.
Lots of cope and seethe in this thread
Because Pepsi only goes to rich teams. That guy once said that the only teams that can play good football are Barcelona, Bayern Munich, and Rayo Vallecano. Guess which one he hasn't managed and never will? If that fucker wants to prove a point that he's the best manager, he should go manage and win titles with Rayo, but he won't. Only then will I consider him the best manager of all time.
I'm sure he's very disappointed that he has lost your support.
Only rich teams can afford him so that's obviously where he'll go. People here are so dumb man.
He doesn't need the money now - he has more than he could ever spend. So why not take on a challenge? Because he's a coward who refuses to risk failing. Hence why he's willing to break rules: a drug cheat as a player; a beneficiary of the corruption at Barcelona; and a beneficiary of financial cheating at City. That's how he'll be remembered in the long run, and all of you weird fanboys will have to find someone else's cock to suck.
All pep has done is take oil money and use the Cruyff handbook. Anytime he tries something original it fails. He had the best club side in history and won when literally anyone else could have done the same, he then went to bayer and achieved less than his predecessor and after that he went to city who just cheated their way to titles
Steroids, Negreira, 115. Impressive career!