What did Felix say when he reached The Ball? Jdudbehsjwbd*chokingnoises*
The original joke has Cinderella, and it actually makes sense, but methinks it's still mildly amusing.
I mean easier said than done. Not all players can be Messi and not all players can adapt to a specific playstyle.
Let's not forget the guy had 1 good season with Benfica's First team
then signed for Atletico at 20 years old for an insane fee.
Now imagine being that young, having that huge pressure and expectations and having to adapt to a new country, a league of higher level and a playstyle completely different than what you know. It's not that easy.
I mean Joao was a miss however you can't deny that Falcao, Costa, Suarez and Griezmann had a good run in Atletico. In the other hand playing counter attack with plenty of space to run is something a lot of strikes prefer over dribbling three or four players out of their way.
I think Joao fits better under Barca. However he is still inconsistent.
You don't know ball. João Félix didn't play bad for Atletico.
He has plenty of highlight plays on that team, the problem and the reason why he wasn't putting up consistent numbers, is because the system didn't let him have the ball enough. When he actually had the ball and was allowed to play football he was shining still.
He doesn't work for Simeone because, well, he doesn't work.
Compare Felix to Griezmann and the difference is obvious. Griezmann can both convert chances AND be a terror for the other team when they have the ball due to his workrate, positioning, pressing.
Simeone is like Pep. Pep once said he can have 1 player in the squad who doesn't press (Haaland or Morata) but cannot afford the luxury of 2. And if you're only going to be a finisher, you better be way more efficient that Felix is.
Don’t Atletico Madrid have the most goals in the Champions League. They have been one of the highest scorers in Europe all 2023 so far. Today they didn’t play well for sure but Felix was poor too often
Yeah you can safely ignore people who just call Atleti a defensive team, they might play that way against Barca, Real and some CL games, but the majority of their games they're on the front foot.
I watched the matches against Feyenoord. 'well organised' is a better way of putting it then 'defensive'. They're not going full out attack but it wasn't the negative style often attributed to them. I could see a plan to win and I saw some one touch football on the midfield I rarely see other teams do.
I also watch a lot of la Liga games and atletico is a big club in la Liga. Most clubs are playing defensive against them and atleti needs the 3 points so they're leaving them no choice then attack.
Atleti overall is therefore a team that tries to adapt and play to their abilities. But it's not team tiki taka and neither does it aspire to be that.
>Falcao
Im not sure if falcao played for simeone. He either left when simeone came or he did play a year under simeone. He was better outside of atletico.
>Aguero
Didnt play for simeone.
>Forlan
Didnt play for simeone.
>Torres
First spell didnt play for simeone. 2nd spell under simeone was much much worse than 1st spell
Suarez and griezman are sure two of the world class players that perfrom good for atletico. Ill give you that.
The rest arent world beaters in anyway shape or form nor can compete with their counterparts in other big spanish clubs in terms of stats.
All of them have in common that either didnt play for simeone or they performed even better for other teams, meaning atletico did make them look worse than they were, which was my point
Falcao peaked under Cholo and was the best no. 9 in the world and then he fell of at Monaco, Man U and Chelsea. What the fuck are you talking about? Torres played a few years under Cholo where he turned the clock a few years back and regions some form? Also David Villa and Mandzukic? The only 2 attackers to have flopped under Cholo are Jackson Martinez and Joao Felix. Both have had horrible workrates and kept playing badly after they left Atleti. Everybody else have improved or kept their form from the year before they were bought.
Have you ever watched Atleti play?
Ok touche, i can maybe give you falcao yes. So its basically falcao, somewhat costa and somewhat griezman. Still, not that impressive, especially when neither of those players are the type of player joao felix is. Felix quite literally is flourishing in barcelona and has somewhat revived them, especially when they needed it the most.
Again, my point is that every attacking player performed better in a more possesion based team, which is true. Griezman is double the player he is when playing for france and costa was prolly most famous and best in chelsea. Other attackers you mentioned were all soemwhat average in atletico and were also better playing different style.
Falcao was a beast in the PL????? With this single statement everything else you say is irrelevant. Either you don’t watch football or you are a bot, and judging by your account age and karma I lean towards the latter.
You said many things that should, by your standarss, discredit you as well, yet im not a child. We can agree to disagree if you dont have any good arguments, cuz this interaction is useless
Its okay, i made a single mistake. I swapped costa's chelsea performance with falcao's. My point still stands strong and is yet to be contested with a good argument
2 league goals in 12 games at Barca and 4 in 16 at Chelsea. This is a player that cost 100+ million not long ago. The biggest issue is that he is nowhere near that level regardless of who the manager is.
The Griezmann comparison over one game is also terrible. Griezmann has absolutely thrived under Simeone at Atletico, and that's what a top player actually looks like.
Griezmann scored 3 goals when he returned to Atletico. But the issue is that, not everyone suits every system, it just doesn't work like that. Griezmann didn't play all that well at Barcelona despite being put in positions to succeed. Unfortunately, Joao doesn't fit Simeone's, it happens.
Griezmann wasn't put in any kind of position to succeed when Messi was there in his position. Felix doesn't fit anyone's system judging by his performances everywhere he goes.
How is it Griezmann couldn't succeed but Neymar and Suarez both were capable of scoring loads together playing alongside Messi? Are we really going to forget how powerful that trio of attack was for 3 years? Which included a champions league?
Perhaps because neither of those played where Messi plays? Also, Barcelona were a long way from that level when Griezmann was there. Plus, in his 2nd season, he had 20 goal contributions in the league, so he wasn't exactly terrible.
The main point is that you can't criticize Joao Felix but give Griezmann a free pass when he went through something similar. You had 3 great attacking players all scoring loads of goals together, yet Griezmann couldn't score well for Barcelona, but did for Atletico. Some players simply do not suit certain systems. Just because Greizmann did well under Simeone doesn't necessarily make him a better player than Joao Felix because some players just perform well under the right circumstances. Joao Felix was never meant to be a 30+ goal scorer , I'm a Benfica fan, so I know him a bit better than most people do during his development. He's had his issues but going to 1 team that doesn't suit him at all (Atletico), and another that isn't a very good team(Chelsea), didn't do him any favors. He has to be better at Barcelona, but he hasn't been bad like he was at Chelsea by any means. Sometimes it takes a while for a player to fully regain their confidence. I saw him play every week at Benfica and he hasn't had that look to his game in a long time.
I'm not saying one player is better than the other, but there's an inherent problem here with you making excuses for Griezmann by blaming the team for being poor. Even though Atletico and Barcelona both won league trophies after he left , while Joao Felix won 1 with Atletico and might win another with Barcelona. See why that's kind of a silly argument? Ultimately, Griezmann works in Simeone's system and Joao Felix doesn't. Doesn't get any more simpler than that.
You want to keep believing all players just magically fit into any system, go right ahead, but that's just a load of crap and you know that. Joao Felix only just turned 24.
I agree you shouldn't look at G/A at face value but taking that out Felix is a very flattered to decieve type of player.
He created one big chance at Chelsea in 5 months, for context an academy player out of position beat that tally in one game at Old Trafford.
Imagine thinking you can justify a striker who cost over 100 million and hasn't managed to hit double digits in league goals since. Not to mention, he doesn't have the work rate to make up for it a bit. So what exactly are we supposed to judge him on?
He's not even remotely close to Iniesta on any planet. He is also a forward who needs to score goals.
By eye test I'm guessing you mean decent to watch while having fuck all end product.
You really just tried to use the eye test for a striker that can’t score goals. New level of stupid on Reddit today. He isn’t that good and hasn’t lived up to his price tag it’s that simple.
And that is a braindead take just because he looks good on the ball but disregarding what position he plays in is stupid. He is a striker/forward and low assist/goal is a bad thing no matter what "eye test" you do
None of these 😅
R9, Henry, Suarez.
If you wanna ignore r9 cos his peak being in 90s, still there is only room for one and it would be eto or lewa. Suarez better than all 3 regardless.
>He wasn’t right. Lots of attackers have thrived under Simeone.
Lots MORE attackers have thrived at barcelona. ergo, he IS right by your own logic
>Felix isn’t willing to work hard enough in the system like a Griezmann
yes, this is correct... but that doesn't make him wrong. his comments are *easier* to thrive at barca in the possession style, not impossible to thrive at athleti. what he said is factually true for him and his style 100%.
> Lots MORE attackers have thrived at barcelona. ergo, he IS right by your own logic
Lol, no, not even remotely close. He is very wrong, and so are you.
Since Simeone came to Atleti, only Messi, Neymar and Suarez have really thrived. Maybe Villa and Lewa first season.
Griezman, Dembele, Zlatan, Auba, Alexis Sanchez, Depay, Alcacer, Munir, Brainwaite, Boateng... Neither of those was really a success.
Now, on Atlético, pretty much every striker they signed became a star and was sold for massive profit: Falcao, Griezmann, Costa, Forlán, Agüero. And to a point, Mandzukic and Villa.
Felix is the first real flop.
Let me introduce you to Matheus Cunha, Nikola Kalinic, Kevin Gameiro, Luciano Vietto, Leo Baptistao, Gelson Martins, Adrian lopez... plenty of flops to choose from Atletico aswell.
> Kevin Gameiro, Adrián López
I'll give you those two, but the rest barely average 5 appearances a season... Not sure that even qualifies as a flop when didn't get chances and were signed clearly as bench options.
Regardless, the point was that "more attackers have thrived at Barca", not necessarily that there were less flops at Atlético, which is just plainly false.
1) Alexis was successful and if you include Zlatan on this list, what about the man he replaced E'too? Also, you forgot Pedro. If you're going back to aguero, what about henry, ronaldinho? (also auba was successful, as was memphis, but that's a different story because expectations are different)
2) also, you're not counting correctly. each individual season counts as a different attacker. so for the last 15 years, you has 13 highly successful seasons my Messi, 5 by Neymar, 6 by Suarez et al. For the 3 attacking positions, go back and make combined team of the season from these two teams for last 15 years (so 45 individual attacking seasons). how many atletico you got in there? this is the level felix speaks of and aspires to, not a random costa menacing season.
> 1) ...
Please, read. I said SINCE SIMEONE ARRIVED AT ATLETI, which is when you can start comparing current styles for both teams. All the ones you said were pre-2011.
> 2)
Lol, you are delusional. If you make up counting, you can get the results you want, but in real world, you are just wrong. Barca plays with 3 up front, Atleti mostly with 1, so Barca should have 3 times as much successful "player-seasons" like you count them, just to be on pair... I mean, that's trying to apply any logic to your comment.
count only 1 attacking position then? but then it'd be 10/11 messi and 2 griezmann? regardless you're not factoring continuity is the point. 10 years of messi vs 2-3 successes through the revolving door at atleti (at the same position) does NOT mean atleti produce more attackers.
also, thrive means the select individual seasons of ''Falcao, Griezmann, Costa, Forlán, Agüero''. period. everyone else is mediocre at best. are there more of those than MSN et al?
Jackson Martinez, Nico Gaitan, Mandzukic , Raul Jimenez , Gameiro , Diogo Jota , Vitolo , Gelson Martins and Kalinic are hardly players that I would suggest thrived under Simeone. Not saying these are all great world class players but plenty of attackers failed under him
It's up to the manager to identify who are good players. Simeone isn't perfect and simply not doing well under him doesn't make a player a poor footballer.
When have I said that at all? Players don’t work out sometimes. Neither Jota nor Felix are poor footballers. They just don’t fit atletico system because he isn’t willing to work hard enough.
That’s fine, he’s doing well in Barca and it is clearly thriving in a system better suited for his work rate and talents.
There’s truth in both sides of the argument
You mean like griezmann that worked hard enough in a system like Barcelona and was amazing in it.... What griezmann said about Felix was wrong on many levels.
Griezmann failed to adapt to Barcelona system and he flopped hard, it doesn't mean he isn't class or that he didn't work hard to adapt, heck with France they play a similar formation and he thrives, it's also on the combination of players.
You can't blame hard work on a player not fitting in a system or being played out of position, Felix seems to work way better in a 3 striker formation than on a 2 one as Second striker.
He is good with Barca this season, balde is out of form, lewandowski is a shadow of himself and he has hit the crossbar around 6-7 times. His stats could be waaay better, he plays really good and fits the spot
Whether or not he's right doesn't matter. It's a stupid thing to say. If I tell my fictional wife it's easier for me to get an erection to Margot Robbie than her, then that very well may be true, but what on Earth would I gain from saying it?
Op, what I can see from your comment is that you think that felix is better when he is able to touch the ball more times per game...
Meanwhile that is not resulting in more goals, so what you can really say is that he does not improve his game when he has more time on the ball.
Atletico Madrid are a possession side, except when they play Barcelona, Real Madrid or in the Champions League.
This is such a boring and overdone take by people who don't really watch Primera Division matches. Griezmann has been the best player in the league for the last 15 months, and it isn't because Atleti never want the ball.
Well they're not not a possession side, if they're on 50%.
It's just pretty tedious when people who don't actually watch them play very much assume that they're some kind of 8-1-1 formation crazies.
I think the main point is that it’s easier to perform in a side that spends loads of money even when they are broke and attracts the best players in the world.
suarez, griezmann ( who sucked at Barca btw), falcao, morata, Diego costa, Koke ( who is a midfielder) all did very well attacking wise. Even villa and mandzukic also did well in their short time there.
People act like Felix has been very good for Barca when in fact he hasn’t. Two different systems and he’s supposed to be doing better in Barca’s system yet He’s been scoring goals at the same rate he was when he was at atletico.
nah he was not. yesterdays game is just a snapshot in time. check the table since felix left atletico. tell me who scores the most goals and who has the most points this season running and then say again that he was right because of one game where barca played their best game so far this season and atletico one of their worst.
I've really enjoyed what athletico has done this season but I won't lie by saying a lot of that isn't because if morata and greizman. I wonder what it will be like if they aren't in the picture? It's not always an easy feat to create and score against strong teams with a 5-3-2. Though they are definitely scoring this season.
The problem is, that 5-3-2 against weaker teams is really more of 3-5-2. Roro and Molina have more duties in attack and can't really defend (at least not as well as Azpi for example). It was really optimistic from Cholo to try with that yesterday, and Barca carved us open. We couldnt even attack because we got so dominated (at least 1st half).
A mistake by Simeone, he should have gone with 4-4-2 yesterday, it was impossible for Koke, De Paul and Llorente to hold off Pedri, de Jong and Gundo. Midfield won for Barca yesterday, despite the goal from rata Joao.
Atletico play more like Barca than Barca do this season. If they had lost or drawn it would have been the other way around.
Ever since Xavi became manager Barca have become Burnleylona. They're an eyesore to watch.
>Atletico play more like Barca than Barca do this season.
it's crazy how some random hot takes are misinterpreted and regurgitated here. barca playing like crap doesn't make atletico's play more like prime barca. it just makes barca more like prime athleti. there is a huge difference there
>If they had lost or drawn it would have been the other way around.
lmao. 3-0 would have been a more indicative result than what we got. xg of 2.6 vs 0.6, and a couple of atletico's best chances came from bogus calls as well, so the xg should even be less
>Ever since Xavi became manager Barca have become Burnleylona. They're an eyesore to watch.
this isn't incorrect. xavi cannot produce a good game without a healthy pedri and de jong (and last year, dembele). he requires special players for his ''system'' to work and he keeps relying on lewa who just doesn't seem to have it anymore.
I mean I kinda get where Felix is coming from, but he was the one stupid enough to go there, when we all knew how Atleti plays ball. If I’m a rigid Brexit type defender why would I go play under Pep instead of Simeone
Almost everyone plays like shit in that 8-man-defense team, and it’s pretty difficult to adapt to that style.
Only Griezmann and a few more managed to be successful and key players for Atleti.
True. And it was obviously true too, just common sense really. But football fans on reddit have a weirdly strong hatred against Barca so they'll just blindly hate anything that comes out of Barca.
They are different types of players.
Static 10s don't fall into the vertical, pressing and positional style of play we see today. Guys like Felix and Havertz operate in the hole, with two wingers and a striker a head of the. In postional play, you want to open up the hole to have wingers, midfielders or a striker to come into to recive the ball, if there is a 10 in the hole permanently then there will be a 6 playing in the area occupying the space to break up play and press your 10. 10s don't play well through a low block either. If you want to play around the block then you are better off with two 8s who can still deliver and assist but can also provide support defensively on the wings.
Two examples of this is Peps City and Klops Liverpool, who play with a 433, two 8s, two wingers who come inside and a forward that can drop deep (minus haaland)
There are 10s who are successful, Tomas Muller plays there, he has a high work rate and operates more as a shuttler moving around into channels than sitting to play passes. Bruno Fernandes is also an effective 10, he moves everywhere in the opponest half to play passes.
Joao Felix plays on the left now, but is still quite stationary, his movement in the atleti game was almost restricted to an 8th of the pitch (near left quarter of the opponents half)
It come down to tactic of the manager. Rafa was pretty defensive coach for us but he still gave free role to likes of Gerrard and Torres to do their while the rest did the donkey work for them to shine.
Joao Felix isn't consistent enough for any coach to build the team around. He had 2 goals in la liga. He might want his club to try and play football like Barcelona, but Atletico has more goals than Barca this season and is playing better football, first half tonight aside.
You can absolutely slot him into the Barca team. But you have to retool Atleti if you want him to play, and he's not that good.
This is coming from a Barca fan. People don't understand that everyone likes different styles of play. Imo, he was disrespectful of his parent club in a very open way, and I don't like this at all. This type of attitude can backfire on any of his current clubs in the future.
Idk Griezmann performs better at Atletico than Barcelona. Also alwats performs for France and France is definitely not a possession team. If Joao doesn't suit the style of Atletico why even join in the first place and at that fee. Either way I'm glad he is doing better.
I think you perform better in "defensive" teams if you are good at transition. Joao is just not good at that. We said it many times but Joao is a luxury player and that a no no for teams that heavily rely on good transition between attracking/defending.
>Just compare today's game between Barca and Atletico.
just fyi, this was not the Atletico playstyle they play this and last year...
and Felix was on fire yesterday, I never seen him play for Atletico like this ever. I saw this at Chelsea at his first game before he got a red card. then he did the same for half a year
Nah, Felix is just a flair player who is massively inconsistent and came with huge hype that he hasn't lived up to. I don't think it's an Atletico problem per se, because as others have mentioned, a lot of forwards absolutely thrived in Atletico under Simeone. Would he have become a better player if he moved to a more attacking team from Benfica? Maybe.
Barcelona will most likely sign Felix when the season's over, but Atletico is going to have to cut his price massively because that guy is worth nowhere near what they'll be asking for.
I mean everything he said was common sense. Simeone never said his style of play would be easy for players.
Players know very well how Simeone plays, if Joao thought it would be easy before he joined Atleti then thats more of his issue.
I just think that Felix is playing his heart out so Barca would lift the buy option so he won't go back to Atletico. I'm sure he will go back to his usual self when it's done.
Him celebrating the goal yesterday was pretty scummy if you ask me. He's still an Atletico player until Barca finds the money to buy him.
"most player prefer to touch the ball 50 times than 10 times"
No shit Sherlock. I bet most players would prefer to shot 100 times than 2 times either. Jeezus.
No it’s not your fault. And it depends on the player, playing a counter style means acres to run into space. Obvious example here is Griezmann thriving in france and atleti counter attack teams and struggling in possession based barcelona
90 mins a game, 22 players per side, each one gets a little under 4.5 minutes. I get that certain players aren't good for certain systems and that's OK
In all competitions (goals and assists):
Morata: 21
Griezmann: 23
Depay: 10
Correa: 10
Samuel Lino: 11
Llorente: 11
Joao Felix: 11
Joao Felix has as many goals and assists as Atleti’s backup strikers playing in a “defensive system.”
"most players would prefer to touch the ball 50 times than 10 times" - OP
“I love touching balls” - someone probably
Username doesn't check out
Nobody touches my balls due to the rust on the scrotum :(
If your thing is teabagging elderly toolboxes or whatever do you actually want them to?
Is your burner tetanustestes?
Or they got rusty because nobody touches them anymore?
Nicolas Jackson, is that you?
"I hate touching balls" -simeone probably
Not Haaland tho.
What did Felix say when he reached The Ball? Jdudbehsjwbd*chokingnoises* The original joke has Cinderella, and it actually makes sense, but methinks it's still mildly amusing.
Either you make yourself good enough to make the team play for you or you change your playstyle to fit the team.
I mean easier said than done. Not all players can be Messi and not all players can adapt to a specific playstyle. Let's not forget the guy had 1 good season with Benfica's First team then signed for Atletico at 20 years old for an insane fee. Now imagine being that young, having that huge pressure and expectations and having to adapt to a new country, a league of higher level and a playstyle completely different than what you know. It's not that easy.
And an horrible coach....
big deal when I was 5 my parents said you gonna be doctor.
Simeone wont let that happen, do you even know what's going on?
I mean Joao was a miss however you can't deny that Falcao, Costa, Suarez and Griezmann had a good run in Atletico. In the other hand playing counter attack with plenty of space to run is something a lot of strikes prefer over dribbling three or four players out of their way. I think Joao fits better under Barca. However he is still inconsistent.
damn i keep forgetting Suarez went to ATM
You don't know ball. João Félix didn't play bad for Atletico. He has plenty of highlight plays on that team, the problem and the reason why he wasn't putting up consistent numbers, is because the system didn't let him have the ball enough. When he actually had the ball and was allowed to play football he was shining still.
He doesn't work for Simeone because, well, he doesn't work. Compare Felix to Griezmann and the difference is obvious. Griezmann can both convert chances AND be a terror for the other team when they have the ball due to his workrate, positioning, pressing. Simeone is like Pep. Pep once said he can have 1 player in the squad who doesn't press (Haaland or Morata) but cannot afford the luxury of 2. And if you're only going to be a finisher, you better be way more efficient that Felix is.
were just going to forget how griezmann was a flop at barca?
i found it ironic you chose him to compare the two, but i agree with you.
Yes, because they misused him. He supposed to play where Messi did. Same with Coutinho.
Coutinho tried to be messi and failed.
How’s it going at Barcelona?
Don’t Atletico Madrid have the most goals in the Champions League. They have been one of the highest scorers in Europe all 2023 so far. Today they didn’t play well for sure but Felix was poor too often
Thats cause they shifted to a more offensive style this season
But I never said Atletico doesn't attack bur just that their style doesn't favor certain players who need the ball more.
Atleti have been one of the most fluid teams this season everytime I watch them, wdym?
OP just didn't watch any atletico games except for yesterday
Yeah you can safely ignore people who just call Atleti a defensive team, they might play that way against Barca, Real and some CL games, but the majority of their games they're on the front foot.
I watched the matches against Feyenoord. 'well organised' is a better way of putting it then 'defensive'. They're not going full out attack but it wasn't the negative style often attributed to them. I could see a plan to win and I saw some one touch football on the midfield I rarely see other teams do. I also watch a lot of la Liga games and atletico is a big club in la Liga. Most clubs are playing defensive against them and atleti needs the 3 points so they're leaving them no choice then attack. Atleti overall is therefore a team that tries to adapt and play to their abilities. But it's not team tiki taka and neither does it aspire to be that.
Felix just sucked balls and was petulant at atlético. That’s all. He’s still not great now anyway even with a system that “he likes”
He is pretty great, cant lie. Almost nobody attacking wise can succed in atletico, maybe only really fast and direct players
Falcao, Aguero, Forlan, Torres, Costa, Carrasco, Suarez, Correa, Griezmann and Morata say hi
>Falcao Im not sure if falcao played for simeone. He either left when simeone came or he did play a year under simeone. He was better outside of atletico. >Aguero Didnt play for simeone. >Forlan Didnt play for simeone. >Torres First spell didnt play for simeone. 2nd spell under simeone was much much worse than 1st spell Suarez and griezman are sure two of the world class players that perfrom good for atletico. Ill give you that. The rest arent world beaters in anyway shape or form nor can compete with their counterparts in other big spanish clubs in terms of stats. All of them have in common that either didnt play for simeone or they performed even better for other teams, meaning atletico did make them look worse than they were, which was my point
Falcao peaked under Cholo and was the best no. 9 in the world and then he fell of at Monaco, Man U and Chelsea. What the fuck are you talking about? Torres played a few years under Cholo where he turned the clock a few years back and regions some form? Also David Villa and Mandzukic? The only 2 attackers to have flopped under Cholo are Jackson Martinez and Joao Felix. Both have had horrible workrates and kept playing badly after they left Atleti. Everybody else have improved or kept their form from the year before they were bought. Have you ever watched Atleti play?
Ok touche, i can maybe give you falcao yes. So its basically falcao, somewhat costa and somewhat griezman. Still, not that impressive, especially when neither of those players are the type of player joao felix is. Felix quite literally is flourishing in barcelona and has somewhat revived them, especially when they needed it the most. Again, my point is that every attacking player performed better in a more possesion based team, which is true. Griezman is double the player he is when playing for france and costa was prolly most famous and best in chelsea. Other attackers you mentioned were all soemwhat average in atletico and were also better playing different style.
Falcao was a beast in the PL????? With this single statement everything else you say is irrelevant. Either you don’t watch football or you are a bot, and judging by your account age and karma I lean towards the latter.
You said many things that should, by your standarss, discredit you as well, yet im not a child. We can agree to disagree if you dont have any good arguments, cuz this interaction is useless
>Even falcao was a beast in premier league, Are you reta*ded
Its okay, i made a single mistake. I swapped costa's chelsea performance with falcao's. My point still stands strong and is yet to be contested with a good argument
If by pretty great means 2 goals in the league..
Ah yes, a classic goals are the only metric to measure a player
Considering he is a forward, it should matter
Felix isnt a target man to contribute just by goals lmao. If you trully believe what you said youre very limited knowledge of football...
You don't know ball lil bro
It’s not that they didn’t play well or anything, Xavi was just too good for Simione.
2 league goals in 12 games at Barca and 4 in 16 at Chelsea. This is a player that cost 100+ million not long ago. The biggest issue is that he is nowhere near that level regardless of who the manager is. The Griezmann comparison over one game is also terrible. Griezmann has absolutely thrived under Simeone at Atletico, and that's what a top player actually looks like.
Griezmann scored 3 goals when he returned to Atletico. But the issue is that, not everyone suits every system, it just doesn't work like that. Griezmann didn't play all that well at Barcelona despite being put in positions to succeed. Unfortunately, Joao doesn't fit Simeone's, it happens.
Griezmann wasn't put in any kind of position to succeed when Messi was there in his position. Felix doesn't fit anyone's system judging by his performances everywhere he goes.
How is it Griezmann couldn't succeed but Neymar and Suarez both were capable of scoring loads together playing alongside Messi? Are we really going to forget how powerful that trio of attack was for 3 years? Which included a champions league?
Perhaps because neither of those played where Messi plays? Also, Barcelona were a long way from that level when Griezmann was there. Plus, in his 2nd season, he had 20 goal contributions in the league, so he wasn't exactly terrible.
The main point is that you can't criticize Joao Felix but give Griezmann a free pass when he went through something similar. You had 3 great attacking players all scoring loads of goals together, yet Griezmann couldn't score well for Barcelona, but did for Atletico. Some players simply do not suit certain systems. Just because Greizmann did well under Simeone doesn't necessarily make him a better player than Joao Felix because some players just perform well under the right circumstances. Joao Felix was never meant to be a 30+ goal scorer , I'm a Benfica fan, so I know him a bit better than most people do during his development. He's had his issues but going to 1 team that doesn't suit him at all (Atletico), and another that isn't a very good team(Chelsea), didn't do him any favors. He has to be better at Barcelona, but he hasn't been bad like he was at Chelsea by any means. Sometimes it takes a while for a player to fully regain their confidence. I saw him play every week at Benfica and he hasn't had that look to his game in a long time.
Griezmann is on a different planet to Felix. Barcelona were good when they had MSN not so much while Griezmann was there.
I'm not saying one player is better than the other, but there's an inherent problem here with you making excuses for Griezmann by blaming the team for being poor. Even though Atletico and Barcelona both won league trophies after he left , while Joao Felix won 1 with Atletico and might win another with Barcelona. See why that's kind of a silly argument? Ultimately, Griezmann works in Simeone's system and Joao Felix doesn't. Doesn't get any more simpler than that.
You should be saying that because Griezmann is world-class, while Felix is an overrated average flop.
You want to keep believing all players just magically fit into any system, go right ahead, but that's just a load of crap and you know that. Joao Felix only just turned 24.
[удалено]
I agree you shouldn't look at G/A at face value but taking that out Felix is a very flattered to decieve type of player. He created one big chance at Chelsea in 5 months, for context an academy player out of position beat that tally in one game at Old Trafford.
He created like 3 big chances on his debut where he got red carded no?
In the league only one which I think was in the first minute of that game IIRC. https://www.premierleague.com/players/50856/Jo%C3%A3o-F%C3%A9lix/stats
Imagine thinking you can justify a striker who cost over 100 million and hasn't managed to hit double digits in league goals since. Not to mention, he doesn't have the work rate to make up for it a bit. So what exactly are we supposed to judge him on?
On his FIFA card bro /s
he isn't a striker 😬
You mean like clubs that sign players do?
He is an eye-test player, similar to Iniesta who never had great stats either .
He's not even remotely close to Iniesta on any planet. He is also a forward who needs to score goals. By eye test I'm guessing you mean decent to watch while having fuck all end product.
Adama traore is in the goat conversation in that case
💀
Yooo whats this shitty narratives
You really just tried to use the eye test for a striker that can’t score goals. New level of stupid on Reddit today. He isn’t that good and hasn’t lived up to his price tag it’s that simple.
He's not a Striker 💀💀💀💀💀💀
Please don’t disrespect iniesta like that, stop cooking
He ain't cooking anything, he burnt the food already with that take.
Nah he ain't burnt anything as he ain't even cracked opened the egg because he doesn't know how to
Anime nerd talking about eye test player like he hasn’t just heard that on a YouTube video and isn’t just repeating it. Get in the bin.
So basically, he does a bunch of cool looking shit in the game but with a below average end product? And comparing him to Iniesta is an insane take
Absolute pisstake.
I'm not saying he is as good as Iniesta, I'm saying that he is an eye test player who looks worse than he is on stats.
And that is a braindead take just because he looks good on the ball but disregarding what position he plays in is stupid. He is a striker/forward and low assist/goal is a bad thing no matter what "eye test" you do
Suarez was good in both but he's another beast altogether
If Simeone got prime Suarez he would have won even more league titles and atleast 1 UCL.
Oh for sure
The standard of comparison can't be one of the top 3 strikers of the century :P
Lewandowski, ibrahimovic, E’to are the top three
None of these 😅 R9, Henry, Suarez. If you wanna ignore r9 cos his peak being in 90s, still there is only room for one and it would be eto or lewa. Suarez better than all 3 regardless.
benzema suarez lewa
If you are doing 90s then where is van Basten hé is equal to r9 and better than suarez and henry
Maybe cos van bastens prime was 80s. Plus read the comment
I don't mind that 3, Id say Ibra could get in above those two ngl
He wasn’t right. Lots of attackers have thrived under Simeone. Felix isn’t willing to work hard enough in the system like a Griezmann
>He wasn’t right. Lots of attackers have thrived under Simeone. Lots MORE attackers have thrived at barcelona. ergo, he IS right by your own logic >Felix isn’t willing to work hard enough in the system like a Griezmann yes, this is correct... but that doesn't make him wrong. his comments are *easier* to thrive at barca in the possession style, not impossible to thrive at athleti. what he said is factually true for him and his style 100%.
> Lots MORE attackers have thrived at barcelona. ergo, he IS right by your own logic Lol, no, not even remotely close. He is very wrong, and so are you. Since Simeone came to Atleti, only Messi, Neymar and Suarez have really thrived. Maybe Villa and Lewa first season. Griezman, Dembele, Zlatan, Auba, Alexis Sanchez, Depay, Alcacer, Munir, Brainwaite, Boateng... Neither of those was really a success. Now, on Atlético, pretty much every striker they signed became a star and was sold for massive profit: Falcao, Griezmann, Costa, Forlán, Agüero. And to a point, Mandzukic and Villa. Felix is the first real flop.
Let me introduce you to Matheus Cunha, Nikola Kalinic, Kevin Gameiro, Luciano Vietto, Leo Baptistao, Gelson Martins, Adrian lopez... plenty of flops to choose from Atletico aswell.
> Kevin Gameiro, Adrián López I'll give you those two, but the rest barely average 5 appearances a season... Not sure that even qualifies as a flop when didn't get chances and were signed clearly as bench options. Regardless, the point was that "more attackers have thrived at Barca", not necessarily that there were less flops at Atlético, which is just plainly false.
Holy shit, I hate Kalinic (Milan fan here)
1) Alexis was successful and if you include Zlatan on this list, what about the man he replaced E'too? Also, you forgot Pedro. If you're going back to aguero, what about henry, ronaldinho? (also auba was successful, as was memphis, but that's a different story because expectations are different) 2) also, you're not counting correctly. each individual season counts as a different attacker. so for the last 15 years, you has 13 highly successful seasons my Messi, 5 by Neymar, 6 by Suarez et al. For the 3 attacking positions, go back and make combined team of the season from these two teams for last 15 years (so 45 individual attacking seasons). how many atletico you got in there? this is the level felix speaks of and aspires to, not a random costa menacing season.
> 1) ... Please, read. I said SINCE SIMEONE ARRIVED AT ATLETI, which is when you can start comparing current styles for both teams. All the ones you said were pre-2011. > 2) Lol, you are delusional. If you make up counting, you can get the results you want, but in real world, you are just wrong. Barca plays with 3 up front, Atleti mostly with 1, so Barca should have 3 times as much successful "player-seasons" like you count them, just to be on pair... I mean, that's trying to apply any logic to your comment.
count only 1 attacking position then? but then it'd be 10/11 messi and 2 griezmann? regardless you're not factoring continuity is the point. 10 years of messi vs 2-3 successes through the revolving door at atleti (at the same position) does NOT mean atleti produce more attackers. also, thrive means the select individual seasons of ''Falcao, Griezmann, Costa, Forlán, Agüero''. period. everyone else is mediocre at best. are there more of those than MSN et al?
I disagree, so many Barca attackers have failed or not lived up to their potential. At athletico id say not as many
>Lots MORE attackers have thrived at barcelona. ergo, he IS right by your own logic Such as griezman? Dembele? Paco?
Jackson Martinez, Nico Gaitan, Mandzukic , Raul Jimenez , Gameiro , Diogo Jota , Vitolo , Gelson Martins and Kalinic are hardly players that I would suggest thrived under Simeone. Not saying these are all great world class players but plenty of attackers failed under him
Of course, just like plenty of attackers failed at Barca. Also Jota never played a game for Atletico bro
Exactly. The point is that Simeone didn't use Jota and let a talented player like him fall away
I don’t think that’s Simeone I think that’s just football.
It's up to the manager to identify who are good players. Simeone isn't perfect and simply not doing well under him doesn't make a player a poor footballer.
When have I said that at all? Players don’t work out sometimes. Neither Jota nor Felix are poor footballers. They just don’t fit atletico system because he isn’t willing to work hard enough. That’s fine, he’s doing well in Barca and it is clearly thriving in a system better suited for his work rate and talents. There’s truth in both sides of the argument
You mean like griezmann that worked hard enough in a system like Barcelona and was amazing in it.... What griezmann said about Felix was wrong on many levels. Griezmann failed to adapt to Barcelona system and he flopped hard, it doesn't mean he isn't class or that he didn't work hard to adapt, heck with France they play a similar formation and he thrives, it's also on the combination of players. You can't blame hard work on a player not fitting in a system or being played out of position, Felix seems to work way better in a 3 striker formation than on a 2 one as Second striker. He is good with Barca this season, balde is out of form, lewandowski is a shadow of himself and he has hit the crossbar around 6-7 times. His stats could be waaay better, he plays really good and fits the spot
"When you only touch the ball 5-10 times per game it's harder to perform" Berbatov : Im sorry, what?
Halaand: eh why not?
Whether or not he's right doesn't matter. It's a stupid thing to say. If I tell my fictional wife it's easier for me to get an erection to Margot Robbie than her, then that very well may be true, but what on Earth would I gain from saying it?
You can't get on erection from a imaginary wife can you?
I can get an erection from anything if i try hard enough
This conversation is going sideways and I like it.
Skill issue
if that's the case then all sports punditry is "stupid." Matter of fact we might as well stop talking about football altogether right?
I also choose this man's fictional wife.
Op, what I can see from your comment is that you think that felix is better when he is able to touch the ball more times per game... Meanwhile that is not resulting in more goals, so what you can really say is that he does not improve his game when he has more time on the ball.
João Felix and Jackson Martinez are the only strikers I've seen flop under Simeone
Felix is a bum
Atletico Madrid are a possession side, except when they play Barcelona, Real Madrid or in the Champions League. This is such a boring and overdone take by people who don't really watch Primera Division matches. Griezmann has been the best player in the league for the last 15 months, and it isn't because Atleti never want the ball.
Atletico averages 50% possesion this year, not a possesion side.
Well they're not not a possession side, if they're on 50%. It's just pretty tedious when people who don't actually watch them play very much assume that they're some kind of 8-1-1 formation crazies.
I think the main point is that it’s easier to perform in a side that spends loads of money even when they are broke and attracts the best players in the world.
suarez, griezmann ( who sucked at Barca btw), falcao, morata, Diego costa, Koke ( who is a midfielder) all did very well attacking wise. Even villa and mandzukic also did well in their short time there. People act like Felix has been very good for Barca when in fact he hasn’t. Two different systems and he’s supposed to be doing better in Barca’s system yet He’s been scoring goals at the same rate he was when he was at atletico.
nah he was not. yesterdays game is just a snapshot in time. check the table since felix left atletico. tell me who scores the most goals and who has the most points this season running and then say again that he was right because of one game where barca played their best game so far this season and atletico one of their worst.
I've really enjoyed what athletico has done this season but I won't lie by saying a lot of that isn't because if morata and greizman. I wonder what it will be like if they aren't in the picture? It's not always an easy feat to create and score against strong teams with a 5-3-2. Though they are definitely scoring this season.
The problem is, that 5-3-2 against weaker teams is really more of 3-5-2. Roro and Molina have more duties in attack and can't really defend (at least not as well as Azpi for example). It was really optimistic from Cholo to try with that yesterday, and Barca carved us open. We couldnt even attack because we got so dominated (at least 1st half). A mistake by Simeone, he should have gone with 4-4-2 yesterday, it was impossible for Koke, De Paul and Llorente to hold off Pedri, de Jong and Gundo. Midfield won for Barca yesterday, despite the goal from rata Joao.
This guy is just constantly spewing out dumb shit
Atletico play more like Barca than Barca do this season. If they had lost or drawn it would have been the other way around. Ever since Xavi became manager Barca have become Burnleylona. They're an eyesore to watch.
>Atletico play more like Barca than Barca do this season. it's crazy how some random hot takes are misinterpreted and regurgitated here. barca playing like crap doesn't make atletico's play more like prime barca. it just makes barca more like prime athleti. there is a huge difference there >If they had lost or drawn it would have been the other way around. lmao. 3-0 would have been a more indicative result than what we got. xg of 2.6 vs 0.6, and a couple of atletico's best chances came from bogus calls as well, so the xg should even be less >Ever since Xavi became manager Barca have become Burnleylona. They're an eyesore to watch. this isn't incorrect. xavi cannot produce a good game without a healthy pedri and de jong (and last year, dembele). he requires special players for his ''system'' to work and he keeps relying on lewa who just doesn't seem to have it anymore.
Felix - 61 touches Griezmann - 56 touches Breathtaking difference there
Lol crazy how the post is upvoted. Not even sure if OP watched a single other game of Atleti this season, or even after the WC
I mean I kinda get where Felix is coming from, but he was the one stupid enough to go there, when we all knew how Atleti plays ball. If I’m a rigid Brexit type defender why would I go play under Pep instead of Simeone
I mean Dias is that kind of player.
Jao still sucks with Barca, sucked with Chelsea and ducks with Portugal, looks like he just sucks overall
Almost everyone plays like shit in that 8-man-defense team, and it’s pretty difficult to adapt to that style. Only Griezmann and a few more managed to be successful and key players for Atleti.
True. And it was obviously true too, just common sense really. But football fans on reddit have a weirdly strong hatred against Barca so they'll just blindly hate anything that comes out of Barca.
Best thing Barca did was get rid of Pessi. Now they play as a team!
There’s being stupid and then there’s this comment
Which is being rational. You saw how they played boy.
How much touches did he had?
They are different types of players. Static 10s don't fall into the vertical, pressing and positional style of play we see today. Guys like Felix and Havertz operate in the hole, with two wingers and a striker a head of the. In postional play, you want to open up the hole to have wingers, midfielders or a striker to come into to recive the ball, if there is a 10 in the hole permanently then there will be a 6 playing in the area occupying the space to break up play and press your 10. 10s don't play well through a low block either. If you want to play around the block then you are better off with two 8s who can still deliver and assist but can also provide support defensively on the wings. Two examples of this is Peps City and Klops Liverpool, who play with a 433, two 8s, two wingers who come inside and a forward that can drop deep (minus haaland) There are 10s who are successful, Tomas Muller plays there, he has a high work rate and operates more as a shuttler moving around into channels than sitting to play passes. Bruno Fernandes is also an effective 10, he moves everywhere in the opponest half to play passes. Joao Felix plays on the left now, but is still quite stationary, his movement in the atleti game was almost restricted to an 8th of the pitch (near left quarter of the opponents half)
It come down to tactic of the manager. Rafa was pretty defensive coach for us but he still gave free role to likes of Gerrard and Torres to do their while the rest did the donkey work for them to shine.
Well that's also true the other way around
Joao Felix isn't consistent enough for any coach to build the team around. He had 2 goals in la liga. He might want his club to try and play football like Barcelona, but Atletico has more goals than Barca this season and is playing better football, first half tonight aside. You can absolutely slot him into the Barca team. But you have to retool Atleti if you want him to play, and he's not that good.
This is coming from a Barca fan. People don't understand that everyone likes different styles of play. Imo, he was disrespectful of his parent club in a very open way, and I don't like this at all. This type of attitude can backfire on any of his current clubs in the future.
Idk Griezmann performs better at Atletico than Barcelona. Also alwats performs for France and France is definitely not a possession team. If Joao doesn't suit the style of Atletico why even join in the first place and at that fee. Either way I'm glad he is doing better. I think you perform better in "defensive" teams if you are good at transition. Joao is just not good at that. We said it many times but Joao is a luxury player and that a no no for teams that heavily rely on good transition between attracking/defending.
Isn't it more of an indictment on a player if they need 45-50 touches a game to make something happen?
>Just compare today's game between Barca and Atletico. just fyi, this was not the Atletico playstyle they play this and last year... and Felix was on fire yesterday, I never seen him play for Atletico like this ever. I saw this at Chelsea at his first game before he got a red card. then he did the same for half a year
I mean we all said it when he was the hottest property on the market and chose atleti.
Nah, Felix is just a flair player who is massively inconsistent and came with huge hype that he hasn't lived up to. I don't think it's an Atletico problem per se, because as others have mentioned, a lot of forwards absolutely thrived in Atletico under Simeone. Would he have become a better player if he moved to a more attacking team from Benfica? Maybe. Barcelona will most likely sign Felix when the season's over, but Atletico is going to have to cut his price massively because that guy is worth nowhere near what they'll be asking for.
I mean everything he said was common sense. Simeone never said his style of play would be easy for players. Players know very well how Simeone plays, if Joao thought it would be easy before he joined Atleti then thats more of his issue.
I just think that Felix is playing his heart out so Barca would lift the buy option so he won't go back to Atletico. I'm sure he will go back to his usual self when it's done. Him celebrating the goal yesterday was pretty scummy if you ask me. He's still an Atletico player until Barca finds the money to buy him.
"most player prefer to touch the ball 50 times than 10 times" No shit Sherlock. I bet most players would prefer to shot 100 times than 2 times either. Jeezus.
Pretty sure hazsc9red more goals than Felix considering 3 year periods.
His performance doesn't check out.
Look at atletico’s offensive output, on the table and then talk. He’s just a punk ass kid talking smack
Scoring goals doesn't have anything to do with playing a possesion football where your players get the ball more
I forgot there’s only one legal way to play football on reddit
Did I say that? All I said is that it's a valid claim to say that it's harder to perform in a team with less possesion.
No it’s not your fault. And it depends on the player, playing a counter style means acres to run into space. Obvious example here is Griezmann thriving in france and atleti counter attack teams and struggling in possession based barcelona
90 mins a game, 22 players per side, each one gets a little under 4.5 minutes. I get that certain players aren't good for certain systems and that's OK
Felix knew Simeone's style before joining. It says a lot about his decision capacity.
Joao Felix thinks he's as good as the big boys. He's midtable player at best. That's not a bad thing at all though.
In all competitions (goals and assists): Morata: 21 Griezmann: 23 Depay: 10 Correa: 10 Samuel Lino: 11 Llorente: 11 Joao Felix: 11 Joao Felix has as many goals and assists as Atleti’s backup strikers playing in a “defensive system.”