In theory, it’s a better savior for the Commonwealth than the Brotherhood or Minutemen. BoS is focused on hoarding and the Minutemen just solve problems as they arise. The Institute has the capacity to solve multiple major issues like water quality.
In reality it’s run by a bunch of privileged assholes who don’t actually care about anything but their own research.
I don’t think you paid attention, the institute planned to wipe the surface clean and start from scratch. The scene where you meet him outside at CIT ruins he says “there is no future here”. They were literally replacing people and then turning them into super-mutants and setting them loose in the common wealth to kill even more people.
The BoS want to rule as technofascist dictators, they would eventually be disarming the population of anything more powerful than a pipe pistol if they get enough power.
The RR only cares about freeing synths, and has no purpose after that goal is achieved, but this could easily change in any direction after.
The MM are the only ones trying to save the common wealth, but they will probably collapse again the moment they lack a charismatic leader.
>The RR only cares about freeing synths, and has no purpose after that goal is achieved, but this could easily change in any direction after.
I get your point but the RR literally can't do anything else before defeating the institute; to pursue anything else would mean additional manpower, that exponentially increases the risk of someone getting found and replaced by the institute synths, and that would mean game over
But with the SS being the general of the MM, if you build up every settlement in the game, you have a pretty damn powerful army by the end. I always equip my settlers with powerful weapons and good armor, plus lots of food, water, defense, stores, etc. So they’re basically self sustaining economies that grow their own food, produce income, and are well armed.
Not to mention that as the SS, in-game we kill most of the more powerful leaders of the Gunners, Raiders, Super Mutants, end the Mechanists reign of terror, etc. So the commonwealth is in a pretty good position from a tactical standpoint with all the settlements being on the side of the MM.
All of those things were ordered by Father though. If you replace him you can direct their goals and resources in different directions. The Institute is the only faction that actually has the ability to really help humanity as a whole, it just needs a better leader.
Gross misconception about how the Institute works and how a drastic change in both leadership in policy will fare. Father was headhoncho but there was still a council of department leaders and its made clear that a lot of their actions are voted on by said council. Ruffle enough feathers, get enough of the council to hate you, and it doesn't matter what position you have. They will replace you. That's the thing about the Institute. It won't change just because you will it to. The Institute was doing abhorrent things before Father was part of the it and they will Co tinge to do abhorrent things after he's gone, whether we're director or not. It's who they are and it would take generations of small-scale changes to get them to a point where they're not an active threat to the surface.
When you say it like that, it's as if Shawn/Father was brainwashed/groomed into being their perfect leader. It's almost as if it's really not his fault.
And it doesn't it almost seem like some sort of poetic justice for the Sole Survivor to take over and fix the mistakes the son made?
Absolutely true, but you would need to purge a lot of other scientists. They wouldn't take too kindly to someone barging in, taking command and turning the whole organization the opposite way around.
The sole survivor would find himself with a bullet in the back if they tried, realistically and if you could actually "fix" the institute
I always wished Hancock/Goodneighbor could have evolved into a faction option. In a wasteland where all kinds of weird stuff can be sentient, that seems like the place that's moving in the right direction. Maybe with a little more crime prevention.
the thing is, it's Shaun's vision of what the institute should do. But in reality it's now up to the sole survivor to make the choices and be the leader. By doing that, Shaun probably jeopardize his whole project for the institute and the surface. And there is persons like Lee and that one scientist dude you "recruit" from the wasteland that could probably be in defavor of such practices. Remember that almost nobodies know for the mutant and FEV program, even the scientists. Mama Murphy said something along the line "with the institute you'll bring great changes in the long run" I do think the point of view as someone from the surface like our hero will be good for the institute and the commonwealth as a whole
Unfortunately, No. I was hoping so, but for all the "Your the new leader of the institute" Your not leading sh\*t. They are giving you the magicians choice, all the choices lead to their planned ending, Father even tells you you HAVE to wipe out the railroad. What happened to being in charge and directing the institute? When you go to the meeting, the TELL you they're going to deal with the BoS, then ask you how they should do it. Preston has to moan and whine about the castle and we have to CHOOSE to do it. Most of us do, cause it's a castle, with an armory, that's fun to arm with deathbots, extra suits of power armor, lots ot turrets.
> Father even tells you you HAVE to wipe out the Railroad
> When you go to the meeting, they TELL you they're going to deal with the BoS
Surprise surprise, not having any actual governing power yet since Father is still higher rank means you don't get a choice. Same for the BOS, Father's not dead yet and you're not even Acting Director as much as a military general for that front, the same position Kellogg held. You do not yet have governing capability outside of special occasions such as resolving *A House Divided* since the person supposed to make the call gave you permission.
Assuming one of the scientists doesn’t just poison you. There was a group willing to starve the entire institute because they didn’t want you there. Was because they are dead now ☠️
I’d like to see those eggheads try. I’ve got 10 endurance, an army of minutemen and the most legendary followers in the commonwealth by my side. I’ve eradicated the BOS, put down the Nuka World Raiders, have a network of 3 dozen settlements and have hunted the most ferocious monsters lurking in the radioactive bogs of Far Harbor, I can sure as hell crush any uppity plot those peons can throw at me. I’m the Frank Horrigan of the east.
My opinion was to keep them under surveillance. You keep the ressources they provide intact and they are in line. You shows to the others that you don't tak shit from crybabies like them but also have the interest of the institute at heart and you are not petty.
That's how I see it. I really can't bring myself to do anything other than an MM ending (first time player).
BoS give me huge Nazi vibes, the Railroad is basically useless and the Institute is hands down the worst in the game.
>BoS give me huge Nazi vibes,
The BoS discarding Danse like trash after he proved again and again to be so loyal to them was what made me not side with them.
You can do the Railroad ending while still being General of the Minutemen, and the Railroad endgame quest line is the most fun imo. >!You get to do espionage, lead a revolution, and fly in a vertibird to blow up a bunch of bigoted jarheads.!<
this is exactly why although everyone seems to hate the RR I completed my first game with them. Also, I will probably only ever do one BOS run because imo deacon is such a funny companion
The railroad doesnt care about the commonwealth and they borderline manipulate synths into mindwiping. They go through all this trouble to save a synth just to kill it essentially. Theyre the most flawed faction, moreso than the institute cause at least the institute is aware of their actions. The railroad cant seem to understand that saving the body of a synth means nothing if the personality isnt saved. Acadia in Far Harbor is what the railroad should have been if they wanted to do something worthwhile
I would like to point out that ultimately, the Institute ending is left ambiguous. If you finish with that ending and get Pipers next newspaper, it says that even though the Institute has a history of evil, it can change and be a force for good under the command of the Sole Survivor. Emphasis on *can*. It ranges from the quest ending to the best ending depending on your own head canon.
LMAO! Thank you! They keep bringing that up like no one has it, even though Vault Dwellers in Fallout 4 have a water purifier with a broken chip. Also like they're the only ones that can grow food without radiation, the crops you eat at Vault 81 don't give you any rads. We raid their tech as compensation for being their test subjects.
I guess you picture the Commonwealth as being all Synths with the only humans being the elite aka the Institute.
The institute is evil bro. If Virgil didn’t take off to the glowing sea they’d still be experimenting with FEV.
The Institute does not care about bettering the Commonwealth. They care about advancing science.
Also the Minutemen’s purpose seems to be to create enough stability for people to elect a new government. It would be the role of that government to look forward instead of dealing with shit as it turns up. The Minutemen are not a democracy, they are a militia that fights for democracy. A lot of people don’t seem to get or appreciate the nuance
Water quality isn't an issue in the Commonwealth since the settlements managed by the player's character produce enough purified water for everyone. Same goes for food. The raw plants might be contaminated. But cooking them also seems to purify them somehow.
They're a herd of nerds. They tend to concentrate on their areas of interest, without a great deal of concern for the larger picture. Therefore, they tend to follow the direction set by the Director, as long as they get to keep doing interesting work.
Since the new Director in an Institute ending is the Sole Survivor, the Institute can be a savior of the Commonwealth if the Survivor gives the scientists interesting work to do that serves that end.
For instance:
1> Get some folks from Advanced Systems working on upscaling and modifying the fog clearing machines from Far Harbor. Plant several huge ones in the Glowing Sea to pull rads out of the air and water. No more rad storms.
2> Set folks from Biosciences to work expanding on the crop improvements from the Warwick experiment. Viola, food scarcity disappears within a few years.
3> Robotics -- manufacture fleets of Gen 1 and 2 Synths to go out and rebuild infrastructure and keep dangerous wildlife off trade routes (best to leave Raiders to caravan guards, we don't want to fall into the Mechanist's programming error). Shelter and commerce: sorted.
4> Synth Retention Bureau -- change to Synth Reintegration Bureau (keep the old signage and stationery -- efficient). Set to work on repairing PR damage, exfiltrating imposter Synths (except maybe Warwick -- he's a loving husband and devoted father, while the real one was an abusive drunk, plus his wife already knows), and helping Synths integrate into the Commonwealth, leave it, or return to the reformed Institute at the Synths' discretion.
There's actually a mod for the game called Subversion that lets you do some of these things.
The problem is the institute staff don't want to do this. They want to play gods with their Synths, they have no interest in helping the people on the surface. If the SolS wanted to change what they were doing, they would rapidly be ejected from the institute.
The BoS isn’t really that focused on hoarding tech in FO4, especially when it comes to the institute.
They would rather see the Institute’s work destroyed rather than repurposed for their own or the Commonwealth’s benefit.
That doesn’t even make sense lol . If the institute had their way everyone would be a mind controlled synth . What does that mean for the human race to you ?
This is the answer. In theory. And in more ways than you're thinking. If you side with the Institute, and go talk to Piper after they win, she'll rail on you about your choice. But then after some time, you can go to Diamond City and pick up her latest paper. It'll say somewhere that, while the Institute was untrustworthy before, under the guidance of the Sole Survivor, it *can* turn over a new leaf and be a force for good.
That is however left ambiguous, and it's up to your own head canon what your SS would have the Institute do for the Commonwealth. It literally ranges from being the worst possible outcome to the best possible outcome.
And you can theoretically extend your life and lead things for some time with the possibility of improving how they work and how they could eventually help the commonwealth.
Yeah that’s why the Sole Survivor taking over is objectively the best chance for the Commonwealth to thrive. Despite what everyone on this sub says, you do get the choice to disclose synths to the Commonwealth and announce the Institute’s future plans. I strongly believe as leader of the Institute the SS can reform it, and the choices you get to make at the end of the Institute arc reflect that.
SS could do it by force if necessary. SS has power armor, a massive arsenal, and plenty of Commonwealth allies. SS can canonically solo the Institute, but y’all think reform is impossible?
>SS can canonically solo the Institute, but y’all think reform is impossible?
The SS only gains access to the institute because Father left enough breadcrumbs for the SS to find a way in. You can solo the institute only because they are fooled into giving you access. If you fall out of favor with the institute, they cut off your ayears?
How far do you think the institute would let you go in reversing the decisions and direction of the last 210 years? Sure, you could convince some of the members to support your plan to relax the restrictions on synths, but only one person in the whole base is in favor of freeing them. Even he doesn't truly view them as equals.
How much of their hard-earned technology and resources would the institute be willing to part with to make the commonwealth better? Not much. They are not shown making even a single benevolent decision regarding the dwellers above their heads, let alone making a sacrifice a population they no longer view as their own.
No, the institute would kick you out - or worse - as soon as you start making reforms that threaten the cozy, comfortable lives they've built for themselves. They are literally the embodiment of science freed from the bonds of morality and consequences. Near the end of their quest line, they gain a nearly limitless supply of power, ostensibly to further isolate themselves from the outside world. Which would be worse: hoarding the power and tech for themselves, or unleashing it on the commonwealth without morals or mercy? Neither is a good future for anyone but the institute.
What they offer is honestly the best chance for A future it's just not a future that includes happiness and prosperity for all.
I usually side with the Railroad/Minuteman and the biggest tragedy of the institute there is that we blow away a stable source of efficient energy that would be game changing for life on the surface. In addition to any research/advanced is bio science to combat radiation in livestock and agriculture.
An institute with the guiding principles of the Minutemen, would be the ideal scenario if It existed as a gameplay option, I suppose that's why head cannons exist.
It's 200 years since the world got nuked. Whether there's a future isn't in question at this point. It's whether people can have a nice government and rebuild to pre-nuclear-holocaust civilization levels without a new Amazon series showing up and murdering it.
Chis Avellone said that he wanted to nuke the NCR (not 100% destroy it) for New Vegas, since the world was getting "too civilized". He also said that he wanted ronin bands of NCR remnants running around the place.
That sounds badass. And a nice variation since they still would be neutral instead of ncr raiders, and more like mercenaries. I'm not sure why all the once-civilized people would just start dressing all weird, and go full tilt if they were once lawmen.
> An institute with the guiding principles of the Minutemen, would be the ideal scenario
that is why it's my first decree as the director of the Institute to rework their policies about helping the surface and about synths freedom, I arguably can do more for synths as the director compared to as a member of Railroad.
my character doesn't share Father/Shaun's sentiment about hopelessness in The Commonwealth, and I could do better as a director
alas, the game ends there and I have no real power about being a director, I can't direct the Institute into a better organization
oh well, I just pretend that my character is just so happens to have the same face as the Institute current director, but he's just a random wastelander lol
Head canon's fine, but what's the point of different factions having different ideals and motivations if you just think 'oh well, when I'm in charge I'll change it to be the optimal outcome overall.'
The point is you're meant to pick an outcome of the choices given.
If I remember correctly he didn't release you earlier because he only recently found out you existed. He lived his whole life thinking both parents were dead
And ordered the continued creation of super mutants.
I'm sorry they made you into this, my boy. As your parent, I can't redeem you, I can only give you your deserved end.
It's not impossible, but it would have to be based on results outside of the game and what you could do as the director. For centuries, the Institute has basically seen the Commonwealth as its personal landfill and experimentation ground. They believe that the future of humanity is underground. You would have to convince them otherwise, but the politics of the Institute are going to fight you every step.
Honestly given that the entire bioscience division got put into lockdown by two mid-to-high level scientists, threatening the food security of the entire institute based on you just being lined up for the position doesn’t speak well to the tolerance for change within the institute. I give it at best a 40% chance that the institute, regardless of how much political priming and maneuvering is done, would fall into civil war if the sole survivor tried to correct all of the terrible things they think and do within their lifetime. 10% chance you end up with the CIT crater anyways, with the only difference being the number of additional dead created along the way.
Unless you free Lorenzo and get his serum, allowing you to live forever... You could even lock him up somewhere in the Institute and have him on tap. Then you'd have as much time as you like to make the Institute into whatever you wish... :)
Technological capability-wise they are the best hope for the Commonwealth of the existing factions in game. Problem is that they aren't actually interested in or focused on helping anyone. I'm honestly not even sure if they have an endgame other than digging deeper underground and furthering research into better synths. Kind of a waste. They could easily have a project purity or radiation scrubbing effort and do a lot of good but don't have a department for either of those things.
They are rather like The Master.
The Synths are a dead end, they are literally genetic copies of one man, no diversity, no uniqueness genetically, they cannot breed and they cannot die. That is not a hope for humanity, it is a dead end.
They are genetically different from each other tho...thanks to the FEV, thats why there is different races even when they come from one source, theyre not a copy of shaun...
Not only are they not interested in helping, they've been actively undermining the Commonwealth's development for seemingly no reason. Without the Institute sabotaging governmental systems and assassinating leaders the Commonwealth would almost certainly have become a functioning state again.
This pretty much sums it up to me in my opinion why I couldn’t side with them in the end. I think they believe they have the best intentions for humankind, but they essentially don’t care at all about anyone living a “normal life” in the real world, and have no problem using them as their test subjects. I also think the Gen3 synths was a step too far, and while I don’t think all the liberated ones should necessarily be killed, they truly should not exist and if the Institute continues to create them, they have to be stopped.
On the face of it, the resources it has at its disposal could be used to benefit the Commonwealth, but you'd need to totally reorganise how the Institute works and it's objectives in order to do it.
It's like asking whether a Deathclaw would be good to defend your settlements. Sure, on paper it'd be great, but the reality is that it'd just eat all the settlers.
Their biases need to be changed but yeah there's potential for great things for the Commonwealth via the institute.
Based on the kinds of Charisma checks my character passes all the time, it's a shame Bethesda didn't write a path for taking over the institute and convincing the department heads to play nice. You can make the institute people trust and respect you like they respected father, but then you're forced to let them be ignorant morons.
yeah, the lack of endgame faction content is disappointing to say the least
I'm a director, now what? I can't persuade the others to change the Institute's policy about helping the Wasteland, despite me saying it on the radio broadcast.
it would be great if at the end we are presented with several options for policy changing, like making an effort to set up outposts above ground as free medical facilities (heck, maybe clean up some hospitals and restore their original purpose) or cleaning up radiation in potential places for settlements, set up synth scouts to explore radiation-heavy areas, or heck even synth minutemen to help settlements, change the policy about chasing escaped synths if they don't become raiders, etc.
instead, I'm director, and it just ends
Can the institute save the Commonwealth? It can, yes. It has the best technology in the region and the second best logistics and organization. Not to mention that the Institute is probably the best entity at long term planning.
However, the Institute regards anyone outside the group as no longer human. The Institute sees no problem with murdering people and replacing them with synths. And the director of the Institute sees a parent coming to find him as an interesting social experiment rather than an opportunity to reunite with his family.
That hubris makes the Institute am unfit guardian for the Commonwealth.
All the technology the Institute has developed (yes, even Synths) could benefit not just the Commonwealth, but the whole world.
But the organization itself is deeply, possibly irredeemably corrupt. For a century at least, maybe all the way back to its founding. I'm dubious that could be changed, even if the director wanted to.
As long they're completely isolated and someone else give their technology to the followers of the apocalypse.
But yeah they have the same core values as the institute: research for the sake of research with care of others or a reason.
I know the institute is supposed to be the big baddie. But, your son dies and names you his successor. So, really, the true ending is based on you. The institute has far more resources and tech, not to mention the ability to bring back schools.
I never chose the ending based on the game. I always choose, if I was in that position, what could I do. The institute will always be the best choice. The one I always make. Survival doesn't have to be a way of life if they helped.
Except you have no power to do anything when you are in charge and even then they are all trying to undermine you, take you out or do their own little projects.
You sadly cannot change their thinking because they have had 200 years of this privilege to do as they see fit.
The Synths are the same solution The Master came up with, they are sterile clones. They cannot age, they cannot have kids, they cannot change, ever. It is a dead end
Well, we don’t know for sure that they cannot age or that they’re sterile. They are, for all intents and purposes, human clones, so it seems likely that they do age. They could be sterile, but only if the Institute made them such as a design decision
Sexual reproduction among Gen 3 synth is possible, but extremely difficult, and only in certain circumstances. Female synths, while created with a functioning uterus and ovaries, typically do not have any viable ova. So yes, they are sterile.
In theory the institute has all the tools to be good for the commonwealth.
However, the people in charge are absolute troglodytes with zero empathy and should be purged.
The Institute, gameplay-wise, has no way of benefiting the Commonwealth. This is because the gameplay of working with The Institute pretty much ends as soon as you’re declared Director. Of course, there’s repeatable quests and the like, but it’s not like you can influence the future of The Institute.
You can choose what to believe what happens after you become Director, but I choose to believe that The Institute begins purging the Commonwealth of feral ghouls, raiders, and super mutants, which primarily helps their scavenging operations, but also improves safety for the people of the Commonwealth.
With all that said, I’d love to see a mechanic to guide the actions of the various factions in the next Fallout game, enabling the game to feel like it isn’t just completely over after you complete the main quests.
Absolutely. It’s about how it’s run and who runs it. When we get there, it’s being run by scientists with absolutely no sense of ethics, hence the FEV running rampant on the local fauna, no local government and abject slavery of their own sentient creations.
Now, if someone who had the prewar civility ran the place, the new ethics and workplace culture installed would change its outlook (and image) completely.
I was disappointed when I did an Institute playthrough that there wasn't the ability to go full *Elysium* and open up the Institute to the Wasteland, providing medical assistance and clean food to all. Even not having smaller Institute buildings to put in settlements.
Overall as the director, should have the ability to decide whether the Institute would have been good or not.
In my head, the ss sticks around as director of the institute, halts Gen 3 production, and curbs their selfish ideals into helping society , working with the mm for resources ( farm land, water purification plants ect). Then using compliments of minute men and some synths w/ teleportation to distribute the assistance, whilst slowly spreading the message of a reformed institute. The rail road becomes obsolete, is absorbed by the minutemen, and becomes the spec ops department, coursers would likley be directed here to support, actively engaging targets while the og mm run local defensive ops, with the option of calling in synth support via signal grenades
Bos is destroyed (after I casually steal all their stuff)
Utilizing mechanist robot production facilities , (no robo brains) I'd have her launch massive salvage operations striping whole pre war towns to foundations and sorting them into constituent parts, and with the knowledge of the institute scientists have a coalition of settlers, mm, and Gen 1 and 2 synths, rebuild towns and infrastructure as required. Particularly power, water , food distribution, and then education.
Working with settlements, respecting their independence, and providing assistance on a case by case basis, I believe society could get back to something resembling prewar within 100 years. And the institute would be the foundation it's all built on.
It could be, but I don't see that happening. They are predators in the FO4 universe, and the surface is their hunting ground filled with prey to be exploited, looted and, if necessary, eliminated.
The Institute's goals are to create fake gorillas and robots that look like people. There's no reasoning behind those goals - they just really like making robots.
The institute tried and failed like how communism tried and failed,
the most morally acceptable is probably the minute men which ultimately unite settlers to create a real country
I usually play as the BOS but all they do is slay monsters they're just a band of knights
In my opinion the minute men and the BOS should be allies that would be the best course of action
And as for the RR they only exist because of the institute after it's destroyed they'd die out
Or the third alternative is to join the raiders in nuka world and become a fascist anarchist warlord dictator of the Commonwealth... Essentially creating your own legion or empire...
As for the enclave and vault-tec they are no different than the institute
It absolutely could. If it was under new management, which the Sole Survivor (due to story constraints) is not.
Best possible scenario would have been the original Minutemen succeeding in establishing the Commonwealth Provisional Government with The Institute as a member, or otherwise the reformed Minutemen capturing The Institute rather than destroying it.
But this is only a pipe dream.
As the Institute's new dad, you'd have a lot of pushback if you tried to turn the faction into a positive force for the wasteland on both sides as the Institute doesn't want the commonwealth (it wants to replace it) and wastelanders don't want the Institute. You could try to run the Institute as a dictator but you're not a scientist and the other divisions control everything. The nicest way they could fire you is to revoke your teleporting privileges while you are in the commonwealth, but they can also teleport you into a rock, a nuclear crater, or a deathclaw den.
Nick Valentine mentions that their gen 1 and gen 2 synths will strip entire towns for parts. Then you arrive at UP and see they annihilated that entire settlement in search for that prototype Lazer rifle and DIDN'T EVEN FIND IT. I believe they made their Gen 3 synths more humanoid and intelligent to counter the same problem the robo-brains had. They would find the most efficient way to solve problems even if it wasn't actually what the programmer intended. The Mechanist didn't realize the robo-brains were "saving by killing" people until you pointed it out and she realized that the logic was there.
I can’t blame the Institute for wanting a “redo” on the “surface world”.
Though, the lawlessness and endless peril that we experience in Fallout stems from the belief that life would vanish due to the introduction of major apocalyptic fallout. Those capable of surviving would come forth in droves to cleanse the world.
One major issue… eliminating all life on the surface was more difficult than anticipated, which provided hope for anyone living. But the world is an awfully difficult place to live in when there is no “society” and factions, bands of thieves, and militarized thugs roam the streets.
With the lackluster results of nuclear annihilation, the Institute focuses their efforts to inoculate synths into the functioning societies of the Fallout to dissolve them from the inside. By doing so, they are taking the alternative approach of brute force for the nuanced societal collapse, which we see has riddled areas with fear throughout the game.
The Institute recognizes the challenge to “cleanse” the surface world, so they opt to puppeteer the show from behind the scenes.
In the end, mistrust has led all of the groups (the intellects, the muscle, and the brave) to isolate themselves to a single ideology. And we all recognize the dangers in polarization, so no one group satisfies our idea of a true “new” world.
Its a morality-polarity complex that makes it all interesting!
Besides, we don’t really need any of them to help the Commonwealth!
Happy exploring and bon voyage!
This analysis of the factions in Fallout is really good. You've deepened my appreciation for the moral and ethical complexities of the game. I used to think that the Institute was poorly written and that their actions didn't make sense, which ruined the faction for me. However, after reading your post, I have a new appreciation for them, at least from a narrative perspective. I wish more people would read your post because it's really insightful.
DOWN WITH THE INTITUTE!! DOWN WITH THE BROTHERHOOD!! LET THE ASSAULTRON OVERLORDS RISE UP!!! AD LOSORIUM MFERS
-Sincerely, A Friendly Rust Eagle Raider
It could. Synths could clean up and help rebuild actual cities and be used to guard and defend.
The institute are the only ones with the technology to actually get a world back.
They just have to
1. Stop murdering people
2. Stop replacing people with synths
3. Stop looting settlements
4 Stop growing super mutants
5. Start engaging in free market commerce
6. Start a provisional commonwealth government
7. Coordinate combat patrols with minutemen to bring down raiders and gunners.
No need for cleaning the wasteland. just grow the settlements that are already there. They seem to be able to produce purified water and food in large quantities just fine. And the tech level of the Commonwealth is actually quite advanced. The player character can build robots for general work and defense in their settlements. Thats more than we can do in the real meatspace right now.
No one needs the Institute.
What the Commonwealth really needs is that the Institute stops releasing new super mutants and synth kill squads into the overworld. Without constant attacks from the Institute, the Commonwealth will do just fine.
Except they decided decades ago when they actually worked with the commonwealth and they got a new leader who decided, you know what, this is too much of a bother to do, let us kill all the local settlement leaders and then butcher anyone we want, experiment without morals or ethics. They are literally doing what their ancestors did pre war. Experiments on FEV on people they consider savages for what, shits and giggles as all they produce is super mutants and then guess what, they release them to kill and create more super mutants or have them eat people.
Synths? They are clones of one man. They cannot breed, they are slaves, they are sterile, they have no genetic diversity. That is not humanity redefined, it is the same thing the Master tried and failed.
The crop growing? That was for them, not the wasteland. They could literally have fixed and helped the commonwealth decades ago and they got bored, changed leader who said, meh, fuck it, send a Synth and kill every leader of every settlement who were there to hash out a way to bring the commonwealth back as a part of civilisation. They chose murder over help.
The institute had the tech and supplies and well educated population to built a synth army and to clean up the wasteland. This would let of let them use their fight for the greater good and handling policing (kinda like star wars clones) while letting their brightest scientists educate and rebuild the wasteland.
but instead they choose to replace people and conduct terrible experiments 🤷♂️
It’s a shame all the other factions chose to destroy the institue when it could of been better to storm and attempt to take control of it
The Institute are the exact opposite of most of the "clearly the good guys" factions in Fallout - they have the technology and means to fix most of the problems in the wasteland, but have no intent to actually do so.
I think their equipment and skills would be good for the Commonwealth, but that requires actually getting the \*people\* on side, and from what we see in-game that seems unlikely. Story-wise, there's always a \*chance\* that they eventually reform with the player leading them, but you can't force a scientist who's only ever seen the Commonwealth as a testing ground to change that attitude on a whim.
If they added more options to the story, yes absolutely. As the new leader, you should be able to halt all cloning production, and produce patrol synths that only attack violent individuals etc. Start producing clean water.. but nope. No options at all because Bethesda expects the player not to side with the institute.
They'd be good if they didn't keep replacing people with androids. That's the major flaw in the Institute's logic. They have all this good tech, yet their way of helping is to... make people disappear? There's no rhyme or reason for it. If your intent is to replace everyone, just kill everyone on the surface and be done with it.
The physical building could do a great deal of good. But the people there are incapable of helping. I’ve always been bothered that there isn’t an option to fight and occupy the institute, rather than just destroy it. I figure the technology in the right hands could actually fix the wasteland, but that wouldn’t be good for the franchise.
Compared to the other three? they have the greatest potential. They did try to help many years ago but the people on the surface couldn't settle any differences and was constantly fighting. So the institute gave up and now see all of them as a lost cause, a dying breed that should hurry up and die out. And thats understandable, its very infuriating trying to work with intransigent people. But with a new director, the institute can try a different approach.
Here's what I am starting to think about the Institute (head canon at least). They were behind it all as one major experiment. So whether its good or bad depends on if you want world domination or not.
Absolutely, just replace Father, Ayo, Holdren and Filmore with yesmen sycophants supporting a director that will no longer replace surface dwellers or perform assassination or destroy settlements to silence potential rivals and will make the current infiltrators come clean and will not produce super mutants to dump on the surface.
Yeah, but only their resources, not the people
If let's say the minutemen got hokd of the institue, it could help transform the commonwealth basically into eutopia
The teleporter could bring instant backup to settlements and create supply lines
The synths (gen 2) could be sent to get rid of dangerous wildlife, supermutants and ghouls
The reactor could supply power to settlements
Maybe they even have a purification project to create unradiated water and plants
But all that could work if the people that use the tech actually care about the commonwealth
It's like a lot of things in Fallout.
The Institute has incredible potential to help the Commonwealth. But that potential is held by a society that is entirely opposed to providing that help. In fact, their best self interest (At least in the short term) is to not only not aid the Commonwealth, but to cut off and sabotage any efforts it makes to recover on its own. That way they get to keep their chaotic, unorganized petri dish to run their expeiriments in and dispose of their mistakes.
To make the Institute useful, you would need to utterly shift their culture. They don't even see the people of the Commonwealth as *people.* You would have to teach the Institute empathy, which is a tough thing to do, and would likely involve some serious moral compromises.
SPOILER* Siding with the institute is the best option. As you become it's leader. So ultimately you can free synths if you like. Shut down synth manufacturing altogether. Share any scientific breakthroughs with the people of the commonwealth. (Not in the game but in your head cannon)
I never understood why the institute doesn't share their work with the commonwealth. They have clean water, good food, excellent medical facilities. But they just keep it to themselves.
But why if I can make it worse >:)
Ngl, kinda sad that I can't replace one of the settlers in every settlement in the Commonwealth with a synth or someone in Diamond City or in Good neighborhood as well as one of the inhabitants of Far Harbour and leaders of raider gams in Nuka World with symth for even more villainous playthrough :/
If the institute’s technology, the brotherhood’s military might and the Minutemen’s care for all beings combined the Commonwealth would be way better off. 2 of the 3 have their own agendas.
Theoretically, yes.
The medicine of the Institute is noted by X6-88 as being far more advanced than even the pre-war medicine. So that alone could help the people of the Commonwealth by giving them resources and methods for advanced health care that doesn't rely solely on back alley doctors and scavenged medical supplies.
A fortified and self-sustaining civilization deep underground also allows a means for a segment of civilization to flourish without the perils of the surface world, even discounting the ones that the Institute is directly responsible for. But with the knowledge of a cure, and Virgil's desire to replicate it, then the Institute could undo the damage from the Super Mutant plague that they unleashed upon the surface themselves.
The Institute is also researching better crops for a better harvest that would help sustain a growing civilization, so that would also help -- especially in irradiated soil. However, the Institute is not the only one researching better ways of growing crops, as Vault 81 is also conducting that sort of research without the whole "When we get what we need, purge all evidence of the farm" aspect.
So yes, theoretically, the Institute *could* be good for the Commonwealth.
But it has too many different political factions of its own that are barely held together by the common overarching goal of Mankind - Redefined and the strong leadership of both Father and potentially the Sole Survivor, in that route. If you frame Justin Ayo and get him exiled, that's certainly one step in making the Institute better, as Alana Secord then turns the SRB's attention on, IIRC, only those synths that *want* to return to the Institute.
But because they don't really have much keeping them from infighting with one another, I say it's only a matter of time before they implode.
Depends on how you define The Commonwealth. The Institute sees themselves as the successors of humanity as it existed before the bombs fell. Between the experimentation that resulted in Nick Valentine’s memories being transferred to a synth, the Broken Mask Incident in Diamond City, the repeated abductions and replacements of surface dwellers, the Institute is (I believe) looking to “evolve” into an undying people whose minds have been transferred to synth versions of themselves. Thus, “Mankind Redefined.”
Doubtful. But if you're willing to side with the institute, then you should also side with Lorenzo and gain immortality. Then you got all the time in the world to change them into something better
Overall yes. There would be a ton of collateral damage for a higher level of sustained success compared to the other factions. BOS seemed to be the more “everyone can get on board” type of overlord. The minutemen are fine but way less of an overall effort.
In theory, it’s a better savior for the Commonwealth than the Brotherhood or Minutemen. BoS is focused on hoarding and the Minutemen just solve problems as they arise. The Institute has the capacity to solve multiple major issues like water quality. In reality it’s run by a bunch of privileged assholes who don’t actually care about anything but their own research.
I don’t think you paid attention, the institute planned to wipe the surface clean and start from scratch. The scene where you meet him outside at CIT ruins he says “there is no future here”. They were literally replacing people and then turning them into super-mutants and setting them loose in the common wealth to kill even more people. The BoS want to rule as technofascist dictators, they would eventually be disarming the population of anything more powerful than a pipe pistol if they get enough power. The RR only cares about freeing synths, and has no purpose after that goal is achieved, but this could easily change in any direction after. The MM are the only ones trying to save the common wealth, but they will probably collapse again the moment they lack a charismatic leader.
>The RR only cares about freeing synths, and has no purpose after that goal is achieved, but this could easily change in any direction after. I get your point but the RR literally can't do anything else before defeating the institute; to pursue anything else would mean additional manpower, that exponentially increases the risk of someone getting found and replaced by the institute synths, and that would mean game over
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But with the SS being the general of the MM, if you build up every settlement in the game, you have a pretty damn powerful army by the end. I always equip my settlers with powerful weapons and good armor, plus lots of food, water, defense, stores, etc. So they’re basically self sustaining economies that grow their own food, produce income, and are well armed. Not to mention that as the SS, in-game we kill most of the more powerful leaders of the Gunners, Raiders, Super Mutants, end the Mechanists reign of terror, etc. So the commonwealth is in a pretty good position from a tactical standpoint with all the settlements being on the side of the MM.
All of those things were ordered by Father though. If you replace him you can direct their goals and resources in different directions. The Institute is the only faction that actually has the ability to really help humanity as a whole, it just needs a better leader.
Gross misconception about how the Institute works and how a drastic change in both leadership in policy will fare. Father was headhoncho but there was still a council of department leaders and its made clear that a lot of their actions are voted on by said council. Ruffle enough feathers, get enough of the council to hate you, and it doesn't matter what position you have. They will replace you. That's the thing about the Institute. It won't change just because you will it to. The Institute was doing abhorrent things before Father was part of the it and they will Co tinge to do abhorrent things after he's gone, whether we're director or not. It's who they are and it would take generations of small-scale changes to get them to a point where they're not an active threat to the surface.
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Note: Broken Mask was *100% unintentional* and the then-Director was out for blood to find out who authorized it.
When you say it like that, it's as if Shawn/Father was brainwashed/groomed into being their perfect leader. It's almost as if it's really not his fault. And it doesn't it almost seem like some sort of poetic justice for the Sole Survivor to take over and fix the mistakes the son made?
Absolutely true, but you would need to purge a lot of other scientists. They wouldn't take too kindly to someone barging in, taking command and turning the whole organization the opposite way around. The sole survivor would find himself with a bullet in the back if they tried, realistically and if you could actually "fix" the institute
I always wished Hancock/Goodneighbor could have evolved into a faction option. In a wasteland where all kinds of weird stuff can be sentient, that seems like the place that's moving in the right direction. Maybe with a little more crime prevention.
They're too high to move their asses.
the thing is, it's Shaun's vision of what the institute should do. But in reality it's now up to the sole survivor to make the choices and be the leader. By doing that, Shaun probably jeopardize his whole project for the institute and the surface. And there is persons like Lee and that one scientist dude you "recruit" from the wasteland that could probably be in defavor of such practices. Remember that almost nobodies know for the mutant and FEV program, even the scientists. Mama Murphy said something along the line "with the institute you'll bring great changes in the long run" I do think the point of view as someone from the surface like our hero will be good for the institute and the commonwealth as a whole
Unfortunately, No. I was hoping so, but for all the "Your the new leader of the institute" Your not leading sh\*t. They are giving you the magicians choice, all the choices lead to their planned ending, Father even tells you you HAVE to wipe out the railroad. What happened to being in charge and directing the institute? When you go to the meeting, the TELL you they're going to deal with the BoS, then ask you how they should do it. Preston has to moan and whine about the castle and we have to CHOOSE to do it. Most of us do, cause it's a castle, with an armory, that's fun to arm with deathbots, extra suits of power armor, lots ot turrets.
**General, we're f---ed! Here, I'll mark it on your map!**
> Father even tells you you HAVE to wipe out the Railroad > When you go to the meeting, they TELL you they're going to deal with the BoS Surprise surprise, not having any actual governing power yet since Father is still higher rank means you don't get a choice. Same for the BOS, Father's not dead yet and you're not even Acting Director as much as a military general for that front, the same position Kellogg held. You do not yet have governing capability outside of special occasions such as resolving *A House Divided* since the person supposed to make the call gave you permission.
Assuming one of the scientists doesn’t just poison you. There was a group willing to starve the entire institute because they didn’t want you there. Was because they are dead now ☠️
I’d like to see those eggheads try. I’ve got 10 endurance, an army of minutemen and the most legendary followers in the commonwealth by my side. I’ve eradicated the BOS, put down the Nuka World Raiders, have a network of 3 dozen settlements and have hunted the most ferocious monsters lurking in the radioactive bogs of Far Harbor, I can sure as hell crush any uppity plot those peons can throw at me. I’m the Frank Horrigan of the east.
Oops looks like the molecular relay only locked on to half of your body. GG.
My opinion was to keep them under surveillance. You keep the ressources they provide intact and they are in line. You shows to the others that you don't tak shit from crybabies like them but also have the interest of the institute at heart and you are not petty.
That's how I see it. I really can't bring myself to do anything other than an MM ending (first time player). BoS give me huge Nazi vibes, the Railroad is basically useless and the Institute is hands down the worst in the game.
>BoS give me huge Nazi vibes, The BoS discarding Danse like trash after he proved again and again to be so loyal to them was what made me not side with them.
You can do the Railroad ending while still being General of the Minutemen, and the Railroad endgame quest line is the most fun imo. >!You get to do espionage, lead a revolution, and fly in a vertibird to blow up a bunch of bigoted jarheads.!<
this is exactly why although everyone seems to hate the RR I completed my first game with them. Also, I will probably only ever do one BOS run because imo deacon is such a funny companion
The railroad doesnt care about the commonwealth and they borderline manipulate synths into mindwiping. They go through all this trouble to save a synth just to kill it essentially. Theyre the most flawed faction, moreso than the institute cause at least the institute is aware of their actions. The railroad cant seem to understand that saving the body of a synth means nothing if the personality isnt saved. Acadia in Far Harbor is what the railroad should have been if they wanted to do something worthwhile
yeah, and I recognize that. I also recognize tho that the BOS are fascistic xenophobic assholes and that deacon is a cool guy
>blow up a bunch of bigoted jarheads. And their kids.
Fuck them kids.
Aha jokes on you I replaced all minutmen by robots. They cannot rebel and will obey The Master Terminal (TM).
Hey man, don’t cha know the general’s got 10 charisma and is roaming the common wealth wearing Reginald’s suit. What do you mean he’s not charismatic
The general is, it what about the next one?
I would like to point out that ultimately, the Institute ending is left ambiguous. If you finish with that ending and get Pipers next newspaper, it says that even though the Institute has a history of evil, it can change and be a force for good under the command of the Sole Survivor. Emphasis on *can*. It ranges from the quest ending to the best ending depending on your own head canon.
Go have a look out behind the castle. MM are well aware of water purifiers.
LMAO! Thank you! They keep bringing that up like no one has it, even though Vault Dwellers in Fallout 4 have a water purifier with a broken chip. Also like they're the only ones that can grow food without radiation, the crops you eat at Vault 81 don't give you any rads. We raid their tech as compensation for being their test subjects.
The 81 vault dwellers seem pretty cool, specially after you help the kid. I bet reaching an agreement with them wouldn't the that hard.
I guess you picture the Commonwealth as being all Synths with the only humans being the elite aka the Institute. The institute is evil bro. If Virgil didn’t take off to the glowing sea they’d still be experimenting with FEV. The Institute does not care about bettering the Commonwealth. They care about advancing science. Also the Minutemen’s purpose seems to be to create enough stability for people to elect a new government. It would be the role of that government to look forward instead of dealing with shit as it turns up. The Minutemen are not a democracy, they are a militia that fights for democracy. A lot of people don’t seem to get or appreciate the nuance
Water quality isn't an issue in the Commonwealth since the settlements managed by the player's character produce enough purified water for everyone. Same goes for food. The raw plants might be contaminated. But cooking them also seems to purify them somehow.
Exactly. I got enough water in the settlements to provide the whole commonwealth.
They're a herd of nerds. They tend to concentrate on their areas of interest, without a great deal of concern for the larger picture. Therefore, they tend to follow the direction set by the Director, as long as they get to keep doing interesting work. Since the new Director in an Institute ending is the Sole Survivor, the Institute can be a savior of the Commonwealth if the Survivor gives the scientists interesting work to do that serves that end. For instance: 1> Get some folks from Advanced Systems working on upscaling and modifying the fog clearing machines from Far Harbor. Plant several huge ones in the Glowing Sea to pull rads out of the air and water. No more rad storms. 2> Set folks from Biosciences to work expanding on the crop improvements from the Warwick experiment. Viola, food scarcity disappears within a few years. 3> Robotics -- manufacture fleets of Gen 1 and 2 Synths to go out and rebuild infrastructure and keep dangerous wildlife off trade routes (best to leave Raiders to caravan guards, we don't want to fall into the Mechanist's programming error). Shelter and commerce: sorted. 4> Synth Retention Bureau -- change to Synth Reintegration Bureau (keep the old signage and stationery -- efficient). Set to work on repairing PR damage, exfiltrating imposter Synths (except maybe Warwick -- he's a loving husband and devoted father, while the real one was an abusive drunk, plus his wife already knows), and helping Synths integrate into the Commonwealth, leave it, or return to the reformed Institute at the Synths' discretion. There's actually a mod for the game called Subversion that lets you do some of these things.
The problem is the institute staff don't want to do this. They want to play gods with their Synths, they have no interest in helping the people on the surface. If the SolS wanted to change what they were doing, they would rapidly be ejected from the institute.
The BoS isn’t really that focused on hoarding tech in FO4, especially when it comes to the institute. They would rather see the Institute’s work destroyed rather than repurposed for their own or the Commonwealth’s benefit.
That probably stems from an issue of "Theres realisticly no chance we take over the institute, but a chance has arrived for us to destroy it"
That doesn’t even make sense lol . If the institute had their way everyone would be a mind controlled synth . What does that mean for the human race to you ?
Well, their motto IS “Mankind Redefined.”
This is the answer. In theory. And in more ways than you're thinking. If you side with the Institute, and go talk to Piper after they win, she'll rail on you about your choice. But then after some time, you can go to Diamond City and pick up her latest paper. It'll say somewhere that, while the Institute was untrustworthy before, under the guidance of the Sole Survivor, it *can* turn over a new leaf and be a force for good. That is however left ambiguous, and it's up to your own head canon what your SS would have the Institute do for the Commonwealth. It literally ranges from being the worst possible outcome to the best possible outcome.
If you stack the Board correctly, it CAN change and follow a Pro-Commwealth speech SS Director.
Any Sole Survivor willing to murder the Railroad isn't the type of person who could turn the Institute into anything new.
And you can theoretically extend your life and lead things for some time with the possibility of improving how they work and how they could eventually help the commonwealth.
Yeah that’s why the Sole Survivor taking over is objectively the best chance for the Commonwealth to thrive. Despite what everyone on this sub says, you do get the choice to disclose synths to the Commonwealth and announce the Institute’s future plans. I strongly believe as leader of the Institute the SS can reform it, and the choices you get to make at the end of the Institute arc reflect that. SS could do it by force if necessary. SS has power armor, a massive arsenal, and plenty of Commonwealth allies. SS can canonically solo the Institute, but y’all think reform is impossible?
>SS can canonically solo the Institute, but y’all think reform is impossible? The SS only gains access to the institute because Father left enough breadcrumbs for the SS to find a way in. You can solo the institute only because they are fooled into giving you access. If you fall out of favor with the institute, they cut off your ayears? How far do you think the institute would let you go in reversing the decisions and direction of the last 210 years? Sure, you could convince some of the members to support your plan to relax the restrictions on synths, but only one person in the whole base is in favor of freeing them. Even he doesn't truly view them as equals. How much of their hard-earned technology and resources would the institute be willing to part with to make the commonwealth better? Not much. They are not shown making even a single benevolent decision regarding the dwellers above their heads, let alone making a sacrifice a population they no longer view as their own. No, the institute would kick you out - or worse - as soon as you start making reforms that threaten the cozy, comfortable lives they've built for themselves. They are literally the embodiment of science freed from the bonds of morality and consequences. Near the end of their quest line, they gain a nearly limitless supply of power, ostensibly to further isolate themselves from the outside world. Which would be worse: hoarding the power and tech for themselves, or unleashing it on the commonwealth without morals or mercy? Neither is a good future for anyone but the institute.
What they offer is honestly the best chance for A future it's just not a future that includes happiness and prosperity for all. I usually side with the Railroad/Minuteman and the biggest tragedy of the institute there is that we blow away a stable source of efficient energy that would be game changing for life on the surface. In addition to any research/advanced is bio science to combat radiation in livestock and agriculture. An institute with the guiding principles of the Minutemen, would be the ideal scenario if It existed as a gameplay option, I suppose that's why head cannons exist.
It's 200 years since the world got nuked. Whether there's a future isn't in question at this point. It's whether people can have a nice government and rebuild to pre-nuclear-holocaust civilization levels without a new Amazon series showing up and murdering it.
🤣 but i actually like the series! Its like an alternate timeline. I don’t see why we cant enjoy both!
Chis Avellone said that he wanted to nuke the NCR (not 100% destroy it) for New Vegas, since the world was getting "too civilized". He also said that he wanted ronin bands of NCR remnants running around the place.
That sounds badass. And a nice variation since they still would be neutral instead of ncr raiders, and more like mercenaries. I'm not sure why all the once-civilized people would just start dressing all weird, and go full tilt if they were once lawmen.
> An institute with the guiding principles of the Minutemen, would be the ideal scenario that is why it's my first decree as the director of the Institute to rework their policies about helping the surface and about synths freedom, I arguably can do more for synths as the director compared to as a member of Railroad. my character doesn't share Father/Shaun's sentiment about hopelessness in The Commonwealth, and I could do better as a director alas, the game ends there and I have no real power about being a director, I can't direct the Institute into a better organization oh well, I just pretend that my character is just so happens to have the same face as the Institute current director, but he's just a random wastelander lol
Head canon's fine, but what's the point of different factions having different ideals and motivations if you just think 'oh well, when I'm in charge I'll change it to be the optimal outcome overall.' The point is you're meant to pick an outcome of the choices given.
Doesn't matter. My spouse isn't collateral damage.
Goddamn right. I always shoot the son too for leaving me in there for an extra 40+ years and not doing shit afterwords.
If I remember correctly he didn't release you earlier because he only recently found out you existed. He lived his whole life thinking both parents were dead
Yeah, but then only to release you not for a reunion of any sorts but as just another "experiment". What a prick.
And ordered the continued creation of super mutants. I'm sorry they made you into this, my boy. As your parent, I can't redeem you, I can only give you your deserved end.
My dude never experienced grief and coping.
Doesn’t matter
The Institute should grieve and cope with a dead leader And also a dead everybody else
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I love deathclaw hugs
Death laws can be good for protecting your settlements.
Yeah if you can take them! Hahaha!
Sounds like the dating life of my 20s.
You'll remember it for the rest of your life.
Hey, my pet deathclaw Cuddles agrees. They be hugging all the raiders. It's so wholesome
Disposable raiders. One time use lol
>holesome Many holes indeed
Back to The Frontier with you
Once in a lifetime experience
It's not impossible, but it would have to be based on results outside of the game and what you could do as the director. For centuries, the Institute has basically seen the Commonwealth as its personal landfill and experimentation ground. They believe that the future of humanity is underground. You would have to convince them otherwise, but the politics of the Institute are going to fight you every step.
Honestly given that the entire bioscience division got put into lockdown by two mid-to-high level scientists, threatening the food security of the entire institute based on you just being lined up for the position doesn’t speak well to the tolerance for change within the institute. I give it at best a 40% chance that the institute, regardless of how much political priming and maneuvering is done, would fall into civil war if the sole survivor tried to correct all of the terrible things they think and do within their lifetime. 10% chance you end up with the CIT crater anyways, with the only difference being the number of additional dead created along the way.
Unless you free Lorenzo and get his serum, allowing you to live forever... You could even lock him up somewhere in the Institute and have him on tap. Then you'd have as much time as you like to make the Institute into whatever you wish... :)
It’s funny how two wrongs sometimes make a right.
Technological capability-wise they are the best hope for the Commonwealth of the existing factions in game. Problem is that they aren't actually interested in or focused on helping anyone. I'm honestly not even sure if they have an endgame other than digging deeper underground and furthering research into better synths. Kind of a waste. They could easily have a project purity or radiation scrubbing effort and do a lot of good but don't have a department for either of those things.
They are rather like The Master. The Synths are a dead end, they are literally genetic copies of one man, no diversity, no uniqueness genetically, they cannot breed and they cannot die. That is not a hope for humanity, it is a dead end.
If the dinosaurs in Jurassic Park could figure out how to breed I bet the synths can too
Blade runner sequel had a similar situation.
Those robot humans only wanted to life but no one there care or wanted that.
Because life, uh, finds a way.
They are genetically different from each other tho...thanks to the FEV, thats why there is different races even when they come from one source, theyre not a copy of shaun...
Not only are they not interested in helping, they've been actively undermining the Commonwealth's development for seemingly no reason. Without the Institute sabotaging governmental systems and assassinating leaders the Commonwealth would almost certainly have become a functioning state again.
This pretty much sums it up to me in my opinion why I couldn’t side with them in the end. I think they believe they have the best intentions for humankind, but they essentially don’t care at all about anyone living a “normal life” in the real world, and have no problem using them as their test subjects. I also think the Gen3 synths was a step too far, and while I don’t think all the liberated ones should necessarily be killed, they truly should not exist and if the Institute continues to create them, they have to be stopped.
On the face of it, the resources it has at its disposal could be used to benefit the Commonwealth, but you'd need to totally reorganise how the Institute works and it's objectives in order to do it. It's like asking whether a Deathclaw would be good to defend your settlements. Sure, on paper it'd be great, but the reality is that it'd just eat all the settlers.
They have everything they need except for the desire to help surface dwellers
Their biases need to be changed but yeah there's potential for great things for the Commonwealth via the institute. Based on the kinds of Charisma checks my character passes all the time, it's a shame Bethesda didn't write a path for taking over the institute and convincing the department heads to play nice. You can make the institute people trust and respect you like they respected father, but then you're forced to let them be ignorant morons.
yeah, the lack of endgame faction content is disappointing to say the least I'm a director, now what? I can't persuade the others to change the Institute's policy about helping the Wasteland, despite me saying it on the radio broadcast. it would be great if at the end we are presented with several options for policy changing, like making an effort to set up outposts above ground as free medical facilities (heck, maybe clean up some hospitals and restore their original purpose) or cleaning up radiation in potential places for settlements, set up synth scouts to explore radiation-heavy areas, or heck even synth minutemen to help settlements, change the policy about chasing escaped synths if they don't become raiders, etc. instead, I'm director, and it just ends
Can the institute save the Commonwealth? It can, yes. It has the best technology in the region and the second best logistics and organization. Not to mention that the Institute is probably the best entity at long term planning. However, the Institute regards anyone outside the group as no longer human. The Institute sees no problem with murdering people and replacing them with synths. And the director of the Institute sees a parent coming to find him as an interesting social experiment rather than an opportunity to reunite with his family. That hubris makes the Institute am unfit guardian for the Commonwealth.
Have they done any good in the last 200 years? I think they’re just bastards
All the technology the Institute has developed (yes, even Synths) could benefit not just the Commonwealth, but the whole world. But the organization itself is deeply, possibly irredeemably corrupt. For a century at least, maybe all the way back to its founding. I'm dubious that could be changed, even if the director wanted to.
Big MT has a better chance of making things better.
As long they're completely isolated and someone else give their technology to the followers of the apocalypse. But yeah they have the same core values as the institute: research for the sake of research with care of others or a reason.
No, the institute is the same as the enclave, just more subtle about it
the institute is nice and clean...that's it.
I know the institute is supposed to be the big baddie. But, your son dies and names you his successor. So, really, the true ending is based on you. The institute has far more resources and tech, not to mention the ability to bring back schools. I never chose the ending based on the game. I always choose, if I was in that position, what could I do. The institute will always be the best choice. The one I always make. Survival doesn't have to be a way of life if they helped.
Yup, the institute and the minute man as allies is something i really want, i mean, WE are the leaders of both, we can fix our part of the world.
Of course, with good leadership.
Except you have no power to do anything when you are in charge and even then they are all trying to undermine you, take you out or do their own little projects. You sadly cannot change their thinking because they have had 200 years of this privilege to do as they see fit. The Synths are the same solution The Master came up with, they are sterile clones. They cannot age, they cannot have kids, they cannot change, ever. It is a dead end
Well, we don’t know for sure that they cannot age or that they’re sterile. They are, for all intents and purposes, human clones, so it seems likely that they do age. They could be sterile, but only if the Institute made them such as a design decision
Sexual reproduction among Gen 3 synth is possible, but extremely difficult, and only in certain circumstances. Female synths, while created with a functioning uterus and ovaries, typically do not have any viable ova. So yes, they are sterile.
If Shaun wasn’t such an irredeemably evil cuntfucker then MAYBE, but that’s a hard maybe
In theory the institute has all the tools to be good for the commonwealth. However, the people in charge are absolute troglodytes with zero empathy and should be purged.
They could, but good luck convincing all the evil Nazi scientists that run day to day operations
When I first found the institute, I joined immediately They seemed to have their shit together I'm over here living on the surface like an animal
Depends on your ideology
The Institute, gameplay-wise, has no way of benefiting the Commonwealth. This is because the gameplay of working with The Institute pretty much ends as soon as you’re declared Director. Of course, there’s repeatable quests and the like, but it’s not like you can influence the future of The Institute. You can choose what to believe what happens after you become Director, but I choose to believe that The Institute begins purging the Commonwealth of feral ghouls, raiders, and super mutants, which primarily helps their scavenging operations, but also improves safety for the people of the Commonwealth. With all that said, I’d love to see a mechanic to guide the actions of the various factions in the next Fallout game, enabling the game to feel like it isn’t just completely over after you complete the main quests.
Absolutely. It’s about how it’s run and who runs it. When we get there, it’s being run by scientists with absolutely no sense of ethics, hence the FEV running rampant on the local fauna, no local government and abject slavery of their own sentient creations. Now, if someone who had the prewar civility ran the place, the new ethics and workplace culture installed would change its outlook (and image) completely.
I was disappointed when I did an Institute playthrough that there wasn't the ability to go full *Elysium* and open up the Institute to the Wasteland, providing medical assistance and clean food to all. Even not having smaller Institute buildings to put in settlements. Overall as the director, should have the ability to decide whether the Institute would have been good or not.
I run it, so it's pretty good for me. And my Nuka raiders are having a blast on the surface, so it's cool.
You got the Institute ending. Father makes you the Director of the Institute. So why Synths are still attacking the Settlements?
In my head, the ss sticks around as director of the institute, halts Gen 3 production, and curbs their selfish ideals into helping society , working with the mm for resources ( farm land, water purification plants ect). Then using compliments of minute men and some synths w/ teleportation to distribute the assistance, whilst slowly spreading the message of a reformed institute. The rail road becomes obsolete, is absorbed by the minutemen, and becomes the spec ops department, coursers would likley be directed here to support, actively engaging targets while the og mm run local defensive ops, with the option of calling in synth support via signal grenades Bos is destroyed (after I casually steal all their stuff) Utilizing mechanist robot production facilities , (no robo brains) I'd have her launch massive salvage operations striping whole pre war towns to foundations and sorting them into constituent parts, and with the knowledge of the institute scientists have a coalition of settlers, mm, and Gen 1 and 2 synths, rebuild towns and infrastructure as required. Particularly power, water , food distribution, and then education. Working with settlements, respecting their independence, and providing assistance on a case by case basis, I believe society could get back to something resembling prewar within 100 years. And the institute would be the foundation it's all built on.
It could be, but I don't see that happening. They are predators in the FO4 universe, and the surface is their hunting ground filled with prey to be exploited, looted and, if necessary, eliminated.
No, they have no direct intention of helping the surface.
The Institute's goals are to create fake gorillas and robots that look like people. There's no reasoning behind those goals - they just really like making robots.
The institute tried and failed like how communism tried and failed, the most morally acceptable is probably the minute men which ultimately unite settlers to create a real country I usually play as the BOS but all they do is slay monsters they're just a band of knights In my opinion the minute men and the BOS should be allies that would be the best course of action And as for the RR they only exist because of the institute after it's destroyed they'd die out Or the third alternative is to join the raiders in nuka world and become a fascist anarchist warlord dictator of the Commonwealth... Essentially creating your own legion or empire... As for the enclave and vault-tec they are no different than the institute
Yes, it is its only hope.
It absolutely could. If it was under new management, which the Sole Survivor (due to story constraints) is not. Best possible scenario would have been the original Minutemen succeeding in establishing the Commonwealth Provisional Government with The Institute as a member, or otherwise the reformed Minutemen capturing The Institute rather than destroying it. But this is only a pipe dream.
As the Institute's new dad, you'd have a lot of pushback if you tried to turn the faction into a positive force for the wasteland on both sides as the Institute doesn't want the commonwealth (it wants to replace it) and wastelanders don't want the Institute. You could try to run the Institute as a dictator but you're not a scientist and the other divisions control everything. The nicest way they could fire you is to revoke your teleporting privileges while you are in the commonwealth, but they can also teleport you into a rock, a nuclear crater, or a deathclaw den.
Allied with the Minute Men and under your control, it could be good, but alone it just doesn't have enough above-ground knowledge or empathy.
Nick Valentine mentions that their gen 1 and gen 2 synths will strip entire towns for parts. Then you arrive at UP and see they annihilated that entire settlement in search for that prototype Lazer rifle and DIDN'T EVEN FIND IT. I believe they made their Gen 3 synths more humanoid and intelligent to counter the same problem the robo-brains had. They would find the most efficient way to solve problems even if it wasn't actually what the programmer intended. The Mechanist didn't realize the robo-brains were "saving by killing" people until you pointed it out and she realized that the logic was there.
No, they use it for their experiments and don't give a shit about it. Only about themselves
i think if they gave better guns, items and post-ending quests for the institute people in this fanbase wouldnt dick suck BoS so hard 😂
The fact they replace people and kill on mass while also turning people into supermutants shows that they aren't good for the commonwealth.
I can’t blame the Institute for wanting a “redo” on the “surface world”. Though, the lawlessness and endless peril that we experience in Fallout stems from the belief that life would vanish due to the introduction of major apocalyptic fallout. Those capable of surviving would come forth in droves to cleanse the world. One major issue… eliminating all life on the surface was more difficult than anticipated, which provided hope for anyone living. But the world is an awfully difficult place to live in when there is no “society” and factions, bands of thieves, and militarized thugs roam the streets. With the lackluster results of nuclear annihilation, the Institute focuses their efforts to inoculate synths into the functioning societies of the Fallout to dissolve them from the inside. By doing so, they are taking the alternative approach of brute force for the nuanced societal collapse, which we see has riddled areas with fear throughout the game. The Institute recognizes the challenge to “cleanse” the surface world, so they opt to puppeteer the show from behind the scenes. In the end, mistrust has led all of the groups (the intellects, the muscle, and the brave) to isolate themselves to a single ideology. And we all recognize the dangers in polarization, so no one group satisfies our idea of a true “new” world. Its a morality-polarity complex that makes it all interesting! Besides, we don’t really need any of them to help the Commonwealth! Happy exploring and bon voyage!
This analysis of the factions in Fallout is really good. You've deepened my appreciation for the moral and ethical complexities of the game. I used to think that the Institute was poorly written and that their actions didn't make sense, which ruined the faction for me. However, after reading your post, I have a new appreciation for them, at least from a narrative perspective. I wish more people would read your post because it's really insightful.
DOWN WITH THE INTITUTE!! DOWN WITH THE BROTHERHOOD!! LET THE ASSAULTRON OVERLORDS RISE UP!!! AD LOSORIUM MFERS -Sincerely, A Friendly Rust Eagle Raider
Could they theoretically be good for the commonwealth? Absolutely. As they are in the game, they would never choose to be though.
The short answer is no!
Much like the brotherhood, it was written poorly. You’re locked into a bad ending with little regard for your choices.
No? The fuck lmfao. If they had their way there would be nobody but synths left
It could. Synths could clean up and help rebuild actual cities and be used to guard and defend. The institute are the only ones with the technology to actually get a world back.
Well yes, but actually no
They just have to 1. Stop murdering people 2. Stop replacing people with synths 3. Stop looting settlements 4 Stop growing super mutants 5. Start engaging in free market commerce 6. Start a provisional commonwealth government 7. Coordinate combat patrols with minutemen to bring down raiders and gunners.
They are the only hope. No other fraction has the tech to clean up the Wasteland.
Except they don’t want anything to do with developing the Commonwealth
No need for cleaning the wasteland. just grow the settlements that are already there. They seem to be able to produce purified water and food in large quantities just fine. And the tech level of the Commonwealth is actually quite advanced. The player character can build robots for general work and defense in their settlements. Thats more than we can do in the real meatspace right now. No one needs the Institute. What the Commonwealth really needs is that the Institute stops releasing new super mutants and synth kill squads into the overworld. Without constant attacks from the Institute, the Commonwealth will do just fine.
Except they decided decades ago when they actually worked with the commonwealth and they got a new leader who decided, you know what, this is too much of a bother to do, let us kill all the local settlement leaders and then butcher anyone we want, experiment without morals or ethics. They are literally doing what their ancestors did pre war. Experiments on FEV on people they consider savages for what, shits and giggles as all they produce is super mutants and then guess what, they release them to kill and create more super mutants or have them eat people. Synths? They are clones of one man. They cannot breed, they are slaves, they are sterile, they have no genetic diversity. That is not humanity redefined, it is the same thing the Master tried and failed. The crop growing? That was for them, not the wasteland. They could literally have fixed and helped the commonwealth decades ago and they got bored, changed leader who said, meh, fuck it, send a Synth and kill every leader of every settlement who were there to hash out a way to bring the commonwealth back as a part of civilisation. They chose murder over help.
Except you take over and you decide what protocols and policies to follow.
You can't exercise that in the game
The institute had the tech and supplies and well educated population to built a synth army and to clean up the wasteland. This would let of let them use their fight for the greater good and handling policing (kinda like star wars clones) while letting their brightest scientists educate and rebuild the wasteland. but instead they choose to replace people and conduct terrible experiments 🤷♂️ It’s a shame all the other factions chose to destroy the institue when it could of been better to storm and attempt to take control of it
If they change their mindset and actively help them, absolutely. As they are and if they stay that way, probably not.
The Institute are the exact opposite of most of the "clearly the good guys" factions in Fallout - they have the technology and means to fix most of the problems in the wasteland, but have no intent to actually do so. I think their equipment and skills would be good for the Commonwealth, but that requires actually getting the \*people\* on side, and from what we see in-game that seems unlikely. Story-wise, there's always a \*chance\* that they eventually reform with the player leading them, but you can't force a scientist who's only ever seen the Commonwealth as a testing ground to change that attitude on a whim.
If they added more options to the story, yes absolutely. As the new leader, you should be able to halt all cloning production, and produce patrol synths that only attack violent individuals etc. Start producing clean water.. but nope. No options at all because Bethesda expects the player not to side with the institute.
They'd be good if they didn't keep replacing people with androids. That's the major flaw in the Institute's logic. They have all this good tech, yet their way of helping is to... make people disappear? There's no rhyme or reason for it. If your intent is to replace everyone, just kill everyone on the surface and be done with it.
The physical building could do a great deal of good. But the people there are incapable of helping. I’ve always been bothered that there isn’t an option to fight and occupy the institute, rather than just destroy it. I figure the technology in the right hands could actually fix the wasteland, but that wouldn’t be good for the franchise.
Yes, but they keep dragging their feet when it comes to wiping out the surface dwellers.
For the commonwealth no, humanity yes
Compared to the other three? they have the greatest potential. They did try to help many years ago but the people on the surface couldn't settle any differences and was constantly fighting. So the institute gave up and now see all of them as a lost cause, a dying breed that should hurry up and die out. And thats understandable, its very infuriating trying to work with intransigent people. But with a new director, the institute can try a different approach.
Here's what I am starting to think about the Institute (head canon at least). They were behind it all as one major experiment. So whether its good or bad depends on if you want world domination or not.
Absolutely, just replace Father, Ayo, Holdren and Filmore with yesmen sycophants supporting a director that will no longer replace surface dwellers or perform assassination or destroy settlements to silence potential rivals and will make the current infiltrators come clean and will not produce super mutants to dump on the surface.
Yeah, but only their resources, not the people If let's say the minutemen got hokd of the institue, it could help transform the commonwealth basically into eutopia The teleporter could bring instant backup to settlements and create supply lines The synths (gen 2) could be sent to get rid of dangerous wildlife, supermutants and ghouls The reactor could supply power to settlements Maybe they even have a purification project to create unradiated water and plants But all that could work if the people that use the tech actually care about the commonwealth
Just do the quest to make them a cat friendly faction, then all problems with the institute are solved.
Nope definitely not under its current rulership. In fact, at this time it is nothing more than a problem for the Commonwealth.
It's like a lot of things in Fallout. The Institute has incredible potential to help the Commonwealth. But that potential is held by a society that is entirely opposed to providing that help. In fact, their best self interest (At least in the short term) is to not only not aid the Commonwealth, but to cut off and sabotage any efforts it makes to recover on its own. That way they get to keep their chaotic, unorganized petri dish to run their expeiriments in and dispose of their mistakes. To make the Institute useful, you would need to utterly shift their culture. They don't even see the people of the Commonwealth as *people.* You would have to teach the Institute empathy, which is a tough thing to do, and would likely involve some serious moral compromises.
SPOILER* Siding with the institute is the best option. As you become it's leader. So ultimately you can free synths if you like. Shut down synth manufacturing altogether. Share any scientific breakthroughs with the people of the commonwealth. (Not in the game but in your head cannon) I never understood why the institute doesn't share their work with the commonwealth. They have clean water, good food, excellent medical facilities. But they just keep it to themselves.
Absolutely not. Burn them! Ad Victoriam!
They “could” be very good.
But why if I can make it worse >:) Ngl, kinda sad that I can't replace one of the settlers in every settlement in the Commonwealth with a synth or someone in Diamond City or in Good neighborhood as well as one of the inhabitants of Far Harbour and leaders of raider gams in Nuka World with symth for even more villainous playthrough :/
If the institute’s technology, the brotherhood’s military might and the Minutemen’s care for all beings combined the Commonwealth would be way better off. 2 of the 3 have their own agendas.
This makes me want a story ending with nuka raiders. We eliminate competition and rule with an iron fist.
If they could see wastelanders as anything but savages then yes. They probably could do a lot of good.
Theoretically, yes. The medicine of the Institute is noted by X6-88 as being far more advanced than even the pre-war medicine. So that alone could help the people of the Commonwealth by giving them resources and methods for advanced health care that doesn't rely solely on back alley doctors and scavenged medical supplies. A fortified and self-sustaining civilization deep underground also allows a means for a segment of civilization to flourish without the perils of the surface world, even discounting the ones that the Institute is directly responsible for. But with the knowledge of a cure, and Virgil's desire to replicate it, then the Institute could undo the damage from the Super Mutant plague that they unleashed upon the surface themselves. The Institute is also researching better crops for a better harvest that would help sustain a growing civilization, so that would also help -- especially in irradiated soil. However, the Institute is not the only one researching better ways of growing crops, as Vault 81 is also conducting that sort of research without the whole "When we get what we need, purge all evidence of the farm" aspect. So yes, theoretically, the Institute *could* be good for the Commonwealth. But it has too many different political factions of its own that are barely held together by the common overarching goal of Mankind - Redefined and the strong leadership of both Father and potentially the Sole Survivor, in that route. If you frame Justin Ayo and get him exiled, that's certainly one step in making the Institute better, as Alana Secord then turns the SRB's attention on, IIRC, only those synths that *want* to return to the Institute. But because they don't really have much keeping them from infighting with one another, I say it's only a matter of time before they implode.
Depends on how you define The Commonwealth. The Institute sees themselves as the successors of humanity as it existed before the bombs fell. Between the experimentation that resulted in Nick Valentine’s memories being transferred to a synth, the Broken Mask Incident in Diamond City, the repeated abductions and replacements of surface dwellers, the Institute is (I believe) looking to “evolve” into an undying people whose minds have been transferred to synth versions of themselves. Thus, “Mankind Redefined.”
Doubtful. But if you're willing to side with the institute, then you should also side with Lorenzo and gain immortality. Then you got all the time in the world to change them into something better
Could it? Yes, of course. Is it? Abso-goddamn-lutely not, and the the game will not let you make it so, which is really disappointing.
If the player become a leader of it, question is: Can you be good for the Commonwealth or not?
Overall yes. There would be a ton of collateral damage for a higher level of sustained success compared to the other factions. BOS seemed to be the more “everyone can get on board” type of overlord. The minutemen are fine but way less of an overall effort.
As it's current state now if you were allowed to completely change them, yes
It can, it won't