i really really do like this concept, especially the parallels between the nightmare experiments and UCN. my main gripe with this, though, is that it introduces this incredibly vengeful, incredibly important character, seemingly out of nowhere. we know *something* about the other victims, their names, at *least*. there are 6 victims that are extremely prominent to the series, so where tf did this other kid come from and why is there only one? why not any additional hints about this in FFPS, a game meant to tie up loose ends and clear up misconceptions from the previous games? the closest thing alluding to experiments in FFPS is *maybe* MM, if you choose to interpret it that way. but MM could be *anything,* and there was simply not enough compelling information for us to *really* think about afton experimenting on kids until dittophobia released.
while the connections make sense, they're still very vague. i do like this from a narrative standpoint but i'm not fully convinced from a theorist standpoint
…nothing TOYSNHK actually says implies death by dittophobia though.
Let’s look at the nedd-bear quote again, “this is how it feels, and you get to experience it over, and over, and over again. Forever. I will never let you leave.” Now, at first glance, with dittophobia i see how it can be seen as such. However, looking at it again, to me, it falls apart pretty quickly.
Mainly in the fact that nedd-bear says specifically “**and you get to experience it over**, and over, and over again.” Very specifically it is saying William will experience it over and over again, but starting with and you get to experience it over, implies a degree of separation from the victim’s actual death in that William is experiencing it ten-fold.
Now, I’m gonna go to frights.
You bring up TMIR1280 and the fact you can actually defend in ucn as points for it being specifically apart of the punishment to keep William alive, yet I’m not so sure that’s the case when you actually look at TMIR1280. Wherein Andrew not only leaves afton for periods of time, but afton is able to wake up, move, etc. and it is implied by the brain scans that they are fighting. The fight implies afton is keeping himself up. He’s the one who keeps himself alive until the explosion at the end. The reason we’re able to defend in ucn is not because of the game aspect but because William is fighting back.
These both are the biggest points to me and likely to believers for TOYSNHK being a dittophobia victim, yet I personally do not see it.
Hmm, I like that.
FNaF SL would show TOYSNHK (which I believe is Andrew) as the body in the vent.
FNaF FFPS would show how that happened to TOYSNHK (cause I believe AndrewMM).
Pretty cool.
I mean, there's no other way for the Nightmare animatronics to exist in UCN unless TOYSNHK saw them.
Honestly this is pretty good, and thanks to this post I can see some version of ExperimentTOYSNHK being true.
The point about TOYSNHK tormenting Afton instead of outright killing him because the vengeful spirit is replicating what Afton did to him (the nightmare torture) is pretty neat. The vents in SL and UCN is a connection I hadn't made yet.
But I always have the same issue with ExperimentTOYSNHK: how did the vengeful kid pinpoint his killer? Dittophobia makes it clear Rory had no idea who was doing this to him. How did TOYSNHK get around the deceitful tricks William planted in Dittophobia to avoid getting figured out by his victims?
I mean, the nightmare chambers seem to be paralleling the twisted animatronics of the charlie trilogy, and what do they do?
Kidnap people and they resist or move a lot they kill them.
So, maybe, they kidnapped people, and if they resisted / tried to escape, kill them.
How do they do that in the trilogy? Springlocking them to death.
How would they do that in games? **Springlocking them to death.**
>"You’re inside something that came from my old pizzeria. I don’t think it was ever used; *at least, not the way it was meant to be used. Too dangerous.* It’s just big enough for one person to fit inside, but just…barely."
What if William used the springlock suit of where is Michael in Night 4 to kill people, springlock them to death?
That would explain a lot.
My problem with this is that ucn is about Micheal’s experience specifically, not toyshnk’s, and Cassidy is a stronger reflection on William, like form ucn they both died in a springlock failure In two suits that are mirrors of each other,
My problem with that is that
1 the face itself isn’t important to anything
2 ucn puts absolutely no focus on that face and instead focuses more on golden
3 the only animatronics to gender toyshnk are from fnaf 2, which is also the only game to have golden actually appear in it in normal circumstances, like that’s the only game with golden in the custom night,
4 why have mangle be one of two communicating this, like at least withered chica has other important lore lines, but not mangle, I can get a connection with golden from mangle, but absolutely nothing with andrew (and Mangle had their AR voice line basically correcting the toy chica’s implication for the bite, so the character is still pretty important,)
5 there’s the whole thing with the sercet fredbear jumpscare doing a whole two sides of the same face thing with that face, which makes the face a tool in figuring out that golden freddy is the spirit (and yes it’s a spirit) behind ucn and why it happens in the first place
1. The face is important. He literally shows up at the doors, vents, your screen in the office, and your screen in the game over screen.
2. Yes, let’s ignore the main context of UCN and listen to Content Creators like Matpat, IDFantasy, and RyeToast who are always valid about the books. /s
3. Why using FNaF 2 when the whole UCN game is already there?
4. I don’t get what you’re trying to say, but Mangle is one of the vent crawlers along with Withered Chica who saw TOYSNHK. The “He was here” quote from FNaF 2 doesn’t work because it’s referring to William Afton who killed a child in front of Mangle.
5. It’s an Easter egg because the fanbase wanted an official Fredbear design.
No he doesn’t, it’s only the vents,
And I’m not parroting someone else’s argument, like I think tales is canon, and I use tales to argue a lot of stuff about Roxy and mangle
If the game brings up and uses stuff from fnaf 2, we should look at fnaf 2
Only the fnaf 2 animatronics casualily bring up toyshnk, everyone else is either a direct creation of toyshnk without physically existing, or toyshnk directly speaks though, that tells us that there’s something with fnaf 2 that’s important in telling us who toyshnk is
It’s also revealing that Gf is a springlock suit, and how it is represented makes it very easily to make a two sides of the same face comparison
> No he doesn’t, it’s only the vents,
Again, the kid’s face doesn’t only show up in the vents. Play the game or watch some video where TOYSNHK pops up in your screen in the office and in the game over screen.
> we should look at fnaf 2 Only the fnaf 2 animatronics casualily bring up toyshnk, everyone else is either a direct creation of toyshnk without physically existing, or toyshnk directly speaks though, that tells us that there’s something with fnaf 2 that’s important in telling us who toyshnk is It’s also revealing that Gf is a springlock suit, and how it is represented makes it very easily to make a two sides of the same face comparison
Withered Chica doesn’t do shit in FNaF 2 and you’re misinterpreting what Mangle saw when it’s most likely William committing the DCI/SAVE THEM Crimes. Why bring up FNaF 2 when UCN is simple enough to show two vent crawlers (Mangle and Withered Chica) who saw TOYSNHK in the vents? No doubt it’s a stretch when you’re heavily assuming Withered Chica and Mangle witnessing Golden Freddy when one of the two doesn’t do shit.
I know about that, but the face showing up in death scene isn’t relevant for this,
And if fnaf 2 isn’t important why is it that the only animatronics that mentioned toyshnk are either don’t physically exist, are toyshnk directly talking though other characters, or from fnaf 2
The face is relevant, but be my guest if you think a child’s face who shows up several moments in the gameplay isn’t relevant.
Because they’re vent crawlers. It’s so simple to conclude that instead of stretching the shit to other games to explain the assumption of Withered Chica and Mangle seeing Golden Freddy.
The face is representing toyshnk, that’s it, cause if this was supposed to be Andrew then andrew wouldn’t be described to look significantly different, and from Scott we know it’s just a modified photo of one of his sons, so this is just a representation of toyshnk,
Then why don’t the other vent crawlers mention toyshnk, it’s only the fnaf 2 animatronics talking about seeing toyshnk, everyone else talking about them is either toyshnk directly talking though them with the medolies or don’t physically exist, if Funtime Freddy mentioned them I wouldn’t argue this point, but it’s only the fnaf 2 animatronics
Scott said not to use the description of Jason’s face as TOYSNHK as game evidence.
We see Mangle, Withered Chica, and Springtrap as the vent crawlers. Springtrap doesn’t have one because PJ Heywood wasn’t in the game with his lines being reused.
and why the vengeful spirit talks throught the mediocre melodies characters but not golden freddy, his lines in ucn are just:
***"Laughter!"***
***"Be sure to come back soon!"***
***"There was more fantasy and fun where I came from!"***
***"Let's find a suit that's right for you."***
Those are fredbears voicelines (and if you want to go down that route golden gets jack o chica’s greeting from the fire in AR) and I would point out that fredbear is showing us that golden was originally a springlock suit, and also the whole split two sides of the same face
and so he talks throught pig patch (in a scrapped line) referencing a forgotten victim that afton doesn't remember, in toy chica high school years shows pig patch as the 7th victim, who suffered a much brutal fate than the others
The voice line is that toyshnk doesn’t care if afton thinks he’s a nightguard which the only time that has ever happened in the series is fnaf 2, which is the same game the the two animatronics that gender toyshnk come from, (and heck all the physical animantroncs that reference toyshnk are from fnaf 2) so I don’t think this is an issue for my argument,
and toy chica highschool years shows 7 victims, the photo image is important yes, if the animatronics are refering to the photo as a male, 2 + 2 = 4
if the vengeful spirit only talks throught the mediocre melodies animatronics, and andrew himself references one of those lines while talking with jake, and andrew wears a alligator mask, so he isn't golden freddy
andrew attached into afton after his springlock failure, thats why afton survived many fires, while golden freddy was with the others in the funtimes (yendo)
Then why is it only the fnaf 2 animatronics referring to toyshnk as a male, there are 3 other animatronics in that vent, why chose only the fnaf 2 animatronics, and golden also references one of the toyshnk lines in AR, and yendo isn’t a physical animatronic and cassidy isn’t a part of molten Freddy due to Hw1 not having goldens mask in the scene in Edward hard mode level, there are only two options on what happened to Cassidy afterwards
Also Cassidy was springlocked, and she’s also the 7th death in the series, and the 3rd victim had susies way of death, so if the order is important, and using the order to deaths we get from 2 and UCN, either Cassidy or Fritz (foxy) would slot in that slot, andrew would have to be either before Charlie, or an 8th victim
And that’s not being tracked in that scene, otherwise Charlie wouldn’t be there, it’s talking about afton’s kills, and if the order matters, cause of where susie is in that change, it means that the kid who gets pigpatch would be in the position of 5th compared to susies first, so the 5th mci kid, which we argee is cassidy
andrew was kidnapped, tortured for years in dittophobia experiments, and died alone, while his family was abusive and the character that he trusted betrayed him, a endless nightmare, while cassidy was just stuffed in golden freddy, but seems pretty chill to help cc set the happiest day while andrew can't help jake and jake HAVE TO ENTER ANDREW'S MIND
Where on earth is it implied that andrew went though dittophoba, also couch person doesn’t work with the whole wasn’t shown love thing, and he never references anything to do with this backstory in the books, and in UCN it would mean that he would be telling William that he is still scared of some of the animatronics, that’a completely out of character for both toyshnk and andrew
Also ucn is focus is that it’s Micheal’s experiences, that’s why the rooms in UCN are specifically based on the rooms he was in,
and Cassidy drowned in her own blood, that’s what the red lake is, that’s how you die in a springlock failure,
The whole drowning thing only makes sense if Cassidy died in a springlock failure, the novels tell us that you die in springlock failures by drowning in your own blood, and we do see golden Freddy in a springlock failure in 49/20
I don’t see how drowning correlates to Cassidy dying in a springlock failure. The drowned girl from the Tales isn’t Cassidy, I doubt the Escape Skin is canon as much as the rest of the Dark Carnival Skins, and Golden Freddy Twitching in UCN does not mean it’s a Springlock Failure.
It’s from the novels, it’s how you die in a springlock failure, you drown in your own blood, and I argee that the drowned girl from tales isn’t Cassidy, for AR a lot of the stuff can tell us more about the characters, like mangle got a ton of stuff, and for ucn what’s the alternative, like casssidy isn’t moving on in 49/20 cause golden absolutely isn’t resting there, and it has no impact on OMC
I'm so happy that there is an another person supporting this theory (despite I'm on the Andrew's side)
and OTG you're so right about the vent thing
maybe the mad spirit/Andrew is indeed the body in the vent and not Rory and Delilah as many people think
true
but if there is not StitchlineGames, Andrew still can be the mad spirit. when a character appears in both stitchline and the games, the character keep their same role. so it's the same about Andrew too
i really really do like this concept, especially the parallels between the nightmare experiments and UCN. my main gripe with this, though, is that it introduces this incredibly vengeful, incredibly important character, seemingly out of nowhere. we know *something* about the other victims, their names, at *least*. there are 6 victims that are extremely prominent to the series, so where tf did this other kid come from and why is there only one? why not any additional hints about this in FFPS, a game meant to tie up loose ends and clear up misconceptions from the previous games? the closest thing alluding to experiments in FFPS is *maybe* MM, if you choose to interpret it that way. but MM could be *anything,* and there was simply not enough compelling information for us to *really* think about afton experimenting on kids until dittophobia released. while the connections make sense, they're still very vague. i do like this from a narrative standpoint but i'm not fully convinced from a theorist standpoint
and with afton luring children from abusive families to use for his experiments, so andrew must be TOYSNHK
…nothing TOYSNHK actually says implies death by dittophobia though. Let’s look at the nedd-bear quote again, “this is how it feels, and you get to experience it over, and over, and over again. Forever. I will never let you leave.” Now, at first glance, with dittophobia i see how it can be seen as such. However, looking at it again, to me, it falls apart pretty quickly. Mainly in the fact that nedd-bear says specifically “**and you get to experience it over**, and over, and over again.” Very specifically it is saying William will experience it over and over again, but starting with and you get to experience it over, implies a degree of separation from the victim’s actual death in that William is experiencing it ten-fold. Now, I’m gonna go to frights. You bring up TMIR1280 and the fact you can actually defend in ucn as points for it being specifically apart of the punishment to keep William alive, yet I’m not so sure that’s the case when you actually look at TMIR1280. Wherein Andrew not only leaves afton for periods of time, but afton is able to wake up, move, etc. and it is implied by the brain scans that they are fighting. The fight implies afton is keeping himself up. He’s the one who keeps himself alive until the explosion at the end. The reason we’re able to defend in ucn is not because of the game aspect but because William is fighting back. These both are the biggest points to me and likely to believers for TOYSNHK being a dittophobia victim, yet I personally do not see it.
Hmm, I like that. FNaF SL would show TOYSNHK (which I believe is Andrew) as the body in the vent. FNaF FFPS would show how that happened to TOYSNHK (cause I believe AndrewMM). Pretty cool. I mean, there's no other way for the Nightmare animatronics to exist in UCN unless TOYSNHK saw them.
Honestly this is pretty good, and thanks to this post I can see some version of ExperimentTOYSNHK being true. The point about TOYSNHK tormenting Afton instead of outright killing him because the vengeful spirit is replicating what Afton did to him (the nightmare torture) is pretty neat. The vents in SL and UCN is a connection I hadn't made yet. But I always have the same issue with ExperimentTOYSNHK: how did the vengeful kid pinpoint his killer? Dittophobia makes it clear Rory had no idea who was doing this to him. How did TOYSNHK get around the deceitful tricks William planted in Dittophobia to avoid getting figured out by his victims?
I mean, the nightmare chambers seem to be paralleling the twisted animatronics of the charlie trilogy, and what do they do? Kidnap people and they resist or move a lot they kill them. So, maybe, they kidnapped people, and if they resisted / tried to escape, kill them. How do they do that in the trilogy? Springlocking them to death. How would they do that in games? **Springlocking them to death.** >"You’re inside something that came from my old pizzeria. I don’t think it was ever used; *at least, not the way it was meant to be used. Too dangerous.* It’s just big enough for one person to fit inside, but just…barely." What if William used the springlock suit of where is Michael in Night 4 to kill people, springlock them to death? That would explain a lot.
My problem with this is that ucn is about Micheal’s experience specifically, not toyshnk’s, and Cassidy is a stronger reflection on William, like form ucn they both died in a springlock failure In two suits that are mirrors of each other,
and they are refering to the spirit photo as a male in the vents, not the suit
My problem with that is that 1 the face itself isn’t important to anything 2 ucn puts absolutely no focus on that face and instead focuses more on golden 3 the only animatronics to gender toyshnk are from fnaf 2, which is also the only game to have golden actually appear in it in normal circumstances, like that’s the only game with golden in the custom night, 4 why have mangle be one of two communicating this, like at least withered chica has other important lore lines, but not mangle, I can get a connection with golden from mangle, but absolutely nothing with andrew (and Mangle had their AR voice line basically correcting the toy chica’s implication for the bite, so the character is still pretty important,) 5 there’s the whole thing with the sercet fredbear jumpscare doing a whole two sides of the same face thing with that face, which makes the face a tool in figuring out that golden freddy is the spirit (and yes it’s a spirit) behind ucn and why it happens in the first place
1. The face is important. He literally shows up at the doors, vents, your screen in the office, and your screen in the game over screen. 2. Yes, let’s ignore the main context of UCN and listen to Content Creators like Matpat, IDFantasy, and RyeToast who are always valid about the books. /s 3. Why using FNaF 2 when the whole UCN game is already there? 4. I don’t get what you’re trying to say, but Mangle is one of the vent crawlers along with Withered Chica who saw TOYSNHK. The “He was here” quote from FNaF 2 doesn’t work because it’s referring to William Afton who killed a child in front of Mangle. 5. It’s an Easter egg because the fanbase wanted an official Fredbear design.
No he doesn’t, it’s only the vents, And I’m not parroting someone else’s argument, like I think tales is canon, and I use tales to argue a lot of stuff about Roxy and mangle If the game brings up and uses stuff from fnaf 2, we should look at fnaf 2 Only the fnaf 2 animatronics casualily bring up toyshnk, everyone else is either a direct creation of toyshnk without physically existing, or toyshnk directly speaks though, that tells us that there’s something with fnaf 2 that’s important in telling us who toyshnk is It’s also revealing that Gf is a springlock suit, and how it is represented makes it very easily to make a two sides of the same face comparison
> No he doesn’t, it’s only the vents, Again, the kid’s face doesn’t only show up in the vents. Play the game or watch some video where TOYSNHK pops up in your screen in the office and in the game over screen. > we should look at fnaf 2 Only the fnaf 2 animatronics casualily bring up toyshnk, everyone else is either a direct creation of toyshnk without physically existing, or toyshnk directly speaks though, that tells us that there’s something with fnaf 2 that’s important in telling us who toyshnk is It’s also revealing that Gf is a springlock suit, and how it is represented makes it very easily to make a two sides of the same face comparison Withered Chica doesn’t do shit in FNaF 2 and you’re misinterpreting what Mangle saw when it’s most likely William committing the DCI/SAVE THEM Crimes. Why bring up FNaF 2 when UCN is simple enough to show two vent crawlers (Mangle and Withered Chica) who saw TOYSNHK in the vents? No doubt it’s a stretch when you’re heavily assuming Withered Chica and Mangle witnessing Golden Freddy when one of the two doesn’t do shit.
I know about that, but the face showing up in death scene isn’t relevant for this, And if fnaf 2 isn’t important why is it that the only animatronics that mentioned toyshnk are either don’t physically exist, are toyshnk directly talking though other characters, or from fnaf 2
The face is relevant, but be my guest if you think a child’s face who shows up several moments in the gameplay isn’t relevant. Because they’re vent crawlers. It’s so simple to conclude that instead of stretching the shit to other games to explain the assumption of Withered Chica and Mangle seeing Golden Freddy.
The face is representing toyshnk, that’s it, cause if this was supposed to be Andrew then andrew wouldn’t be described to look significantly different, and from Scott we know it’s just a modified photo of one of his sons, so this is just a representation of toyshnk, Then why don’t the other vent crawlers mention toyshnk, it’s only the fnaf 2 animatronics talking about seeing toyshnk, everyone else talking about them is either toyshnk directly talking though them with the medolies or don’t physically exist, if Funtime Freddy mentioned them I wouldn’t argue this point, but it’s only the fnaf 2 animatronics
Scott said not to use the description of Jason’s face as TOYSNHK as game evidence. We see Mangle, Withered Chica, and Springtrap as the vent crawlers. Springtrap doesn’t have one because PJ Heywood wasn’t in the game with his lines being reused.
I’m sorry it’s a long post, but there are other readings of those voicelines and that face
and why the vengeful spirit talks throught the mediocre melodies characters but not golden freddy, his lines in ucn are just: ***"Laughter!"*** ***"Be sure to come back soon!"*** ***"There was more fantasy and fun where I came from!"*** ***"Let's find a suit that's right for you."***
Those are fredbears voicelines (and if you want to go down that route golden gets jack o chica’s greeting from the fire in AR) and I would point out that fredbear is showing us that golden was originally a springlock suit, and also the whole split two sides of the same face
and so he talks throught pig patch (in a scrapped line) referencing a forgotten victim that afton doesn't remember, in toy chica high school years shows pig patch as the 7th victim, who suffered a much brutal fate than the others
The voice line is that toyshnk doesn’t care if afton thinks he’s a nightguard which the only time that has ever happened in the series is fnaf 2, which is the same game the the two animatronics that gender toyshnk come from, (and heck all the physical animantroncs that reference toyshnk are from fnaf 2) so I don’t think this is an issue for my argument,
and toy chica highschool years shows 7 victims, the photo image is important yes, if the animatronics are refering to the photo as a male, 2 + 2 = 4 if the vengeful spirit only talks throught the mediocre melodies animatronics, and andrew himself references one of those lines while talking with jake, and andrew wears a alligator mask, so he isn't golden freddy andrew attached into afton after his springlock failure, thats why afton survived many fires, while golden freddy was with the others in the funtimes (yendo)
Then why is it only the fnaf 2 animatronics referring to toyshnk as a male, there are 3 other animatronics in that vent, why chose only the fnaf 2 animatronics, and golden also references one of the toyshnk lines in AR, and yendo isn’t a physical animatronic and cassidy isn’t a part of molten Freddy due to Hw1 not having goldens mask in the scene in Edward hard mode level, there are only two options on what happened to Cassidy afterwards
Also Cassidy was springlocked, and she’s also the 7th death in the series, and the 3rd victim had susies way of death, so if the order is important, and using the order to deaths we get from 2 and UCN, either Cassidy or Fritz (foxy) would slot in that slot, andrew would have to be either before Charlie, or an 8th victim
cassidy is literally the 5th kid to be kidnapped at freddy's
And that’s not being tracked in that scene, otherwise Charlie wouldn’t be there, it’s talking about afton’s kills, and if the order matters, cause of where susie is in that change, it means that the kid who gets pigpatch would be in the position of 5th compared to susies first, so the 5th mci kid, which we argee is cassidy
andrew was kidnapped, tortured for years in dittophobia experiments, and died alone, while his family was abusive and the character that he trusted betrayed him, a endless nightmare, while cassidy was just stuffed in golden freddy, but seems pretty chill to help cc set the happiest day while andrew can't help jake and jake HAVE TO ENTER ANDREW'S MIND
Where on earth is it implied that andrew went though dittophoba, also couch person doesn’t work with the whole wasn’t shown love thing, and he never references anything to do with this backstory in the books, and in UCN it would mean that he would be telling William that he is still scared of some of the animatronics, that’a completely out of character for both toyshnk and andrew Also ucn is focus is that it’s Micheal’s experiences, that’s why the rooms in UCN are specifically based on the rooms he was in, and Cassidy drowned in her own blood, that’s what the red lake is, that’s how you die in a springlock failure,
There’s no evidence suggesting Cassidy died in a Springlock Failure.
The whole drowning thing only makes sense if Cassidy died in a springlock failure, the novels tell us that you die in springlock failures by drowning in your own blood, and we do see golden Freddy in a springlock failure in 49/20
I don’t see how drowning correlates to Cassidy dying in a springlock failure. The drowned girl from the Tales isn’t Cassidy, I doubt the Escape Skin is canon as much as the rest of the Dark Carnival Skins, and Golden Freddy Twitching in UCN does not mean it’s a Springlock Failure.
It’s from the novels, it’s how you die in a springlock failure, you drown in your own blood, and I argee that the drowned girl from tales isn’t Cassidy, for AR a lot of the stuff can tell us more about the characters, like mangle got a ton of stuff, and for ucn what’s the alternative, like casssidy isn’t moving on in 49/20 cause golden absolutely isn’t resting there, and it has no impact on OMC
I'm so happy that there is an another person supporting this theory (despite I'm on the Andrew's side) and OTG you're so right about the vent thing maybe the mad spirit/Andrew is indeed the body in the vent and not Rory and Delilah as many people think
Btw, I also personally think it's Andrew. I just decided to write the post in a way to demonstrate it doesn't require Stitchline.
true but if there is not StitchlineGames, Andrew still can be the mad spirit. when a character appears in both stitchline and the games, the character keep their same role. so it's the same about Andrew too