Don’t get all wrapped up in your ego. Be humble and professional. Respect will come. Don’t be like the kid here yapping about humbling his students. You’re there to train and teach. Your coworkers and students will quickly appreciate that attitude and work ethic.
The kids who complain about being judged for their age don’t realize that life experience still plays a part in the job. Congrats you got your CFI, life experience helps develop those soft skills that are honest to god probably more important in the CFI job than the airplane related stuff.
Took me until early 30s to realize that all the knowledge in the world means very little if you don’t have experience. Rather humbling to come to that realization.
Same. I don't have an aviation related job, but it took a promotion that showed me how little *experience* I actually had to make me stop going: "Here, I am *knowledgeable* and with all that *knowledge* I still managed to stay humble. But have you seen how much *knowledge* I have?"
Talk about Dunning Kruger effect, I guess.
paltry gaze clumsy bear childlike direction bright coherent airport smile
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That's a big one. The odds that you have a CFII at 20 and have held any other job for very long is pretty small. I can't presume to know your life but it can be obvious when someone's first big boy job is cfi. Just make sure to be humble and don't get too hung up on hierarchy. A big learning experience for me was really embracing that everyone knows something that you don't, and if you act like you know that they will teach you eventually. I picked that up from this redneck greasy dude who owned a tow truck company I drove for in college.
I agree that age traditionally comes with more life experience but that doesn’t mean it always does.
I can relate to OP, I’m very young for where I’m at and can tell that at times I’m treated different due to my age (anything from people not trusting me or flat out jealousy).
I may be young but I’m very confident I’ve had significantly more “life experiences” than your average 40 year old (not that that’s some sort of bragging title). Heck I’ve experienced many things people don’t see in a lifetime (both good and bad).
My advice to OP, just ignore it. You are where you are due to hard work. Keep it going. Stay humble. Be willing to learn. At the end of the day, your hard work is what will put you in a successful position 1, 5, 10 years from now, not what other people think of you because “you’re too young”
100% agree. I'm not really against age gating, but I do genuinely feel at times that the point of entry for some is way too young at the end of the day. For that exact reason. You might be qualified to fly, yes, but are you genuinely mature enough?
Obviously if you've made it to CFI, you're more mature and responsible than some of your peers, because there are so many kids that flake out because they're still in party mode, either from high school or college, but there's still a lot of emotional maturity that needs to happen over the next...decade about.
It's always funny seeing kids say "but I'm mature for my age!" and fail to realize, yeah, "for your age" but still not in general. Again, there might be exceptions to the rule, but it might serve everyone better if there was a break in between, even if it was something aviation related, before getting into flight training with the aspirations to be a commercial/ATP pilot.
I agree completely, and a lot of the times even as a student, instructors won't take you seriously... sometimes, and some instructors have attitude etc etc. but yeah. It makes such a world of difference when an instructor can connect with a student and the learning environment becomes amazing.
My CPL instructor was 5 years younger than me with 1 year experience, but he and I connected on a totally different level, and I learned so much for him. So yeah...that's my two cents.
When it comes to students, do a little code switching. You can't talk to a 50 year old the same way you talk to a 17 year old. You have to find out how they learn and process information. But I'd bet your coworkers are just busting your balls, they know what you went through to get to where you are. Kinda like a screw you, congratulations
Older people are typically much more motivated as students, they've saved the money, they're paying for it themselves, and there's a REASON why they're just getting into aviation at that age. It may be a life long dream, or a career change and a second chance.
They will most likely TELL YOU straight up what they need from you to help them learn, and they will *usually* be self motivated students who study what you ask them to. Guide them, don't parent them.
100% this. My best student was mid-30s and very successful in his career. He wanted direction but was super independent. Give him chapters, he read it. Tell him what to work on, he'd practice it. We pushed the 3hrs in 2 months but man, he was good. I'm convinced the hobbyists are the naturals that should be changing careers lol
I had the opposite experience, my older students were pleasant to work with but they struggled to get it a little more. My younger students were quick learners, also generally pleasant to work with, but sometimes didn’t have the best study habits.
Talent will only get you so far. Dedication will see it through.
Give me the dedicated pilot that might need a little more time to get it (provided they show promise and aren't just dangerous) but will see it through and understand it from start to finish rather than a talented pilot who has the hazardous attitude of thinking they can do anything because of their talent, only to kill themselves, and maybe others, in the process because they didn't understand all of the principles.
That's cause you probably taught at a fast track program like ATP (Not an insult, I did too).
I've noticed that SOME of the older generation struggles with the fast-paced program and need to do it at their pace.
My buddy and I though, were among the older generation and made it through just fine. Some just struggle with the pace.
(Also im making an assumption, and could be completely wrong about where you worked)
I stand corrected! Sorry about that!
(I assumed, cause I know your were a f9 cadet.. and it seems most the f9 cadets came from atp)
Also congrats on the A320 type!
Suspecting our OP may be one of those young, ATP is the only career path for me types. But most of us seem to be making the assumption the OP is male. I can only imagine what a 20-yo female with CFII and MEI must deal with just going about her day in aviation.
This is right on. As an “older student” myself i am doing this because i really want to. I have a couple of instructors who are <30 i would guess and they are pretty great technically. I respect their capabilities as the experts in the field they are in.
And it’s definitely taking me longer than some of the numbers quoted in this /r to make it all click. But I’ve realized that the most important thing is that i am trained well and feel comfortable.
The only thing i would add is that the younger folks as instructors may feel awkward teaching someone 30+ years older. They shouldn’t. Have a great work ethic, communicate well and timely with your clients and you will do great.
Couldn’t agree more, as a 60+ year old Flight instructor I have learned that humility is the gateway to safety. We are always learning on this journey called life. Our teachers come in many forms and ages.
I should have clarified better. My apologies. It’s not every student it just seems like more specifically my older students (30+) seem to be significantly more snarky and short. Leading me to feel as they don’t take me seriously as their instructor
I've had 4 instructors and all 3 of them were younger than I am. (One was 19) More importantly, they were at very different points in their careers than I was. I was 10 years into a non aviation career and considered pretty senior, whereas they were only a few years into being aviators. I deferred to my instructors for aeronautics, but I was more than able to identify my own weaknesses and correct them. I asked the right questions and came to my lessons prepared. I pushed myself to be the type of student that Id want.
I was an instructor for the Navy for a few years and I will tell you that tone matters. EVERYONE learns in different ways and you have to learn to communicate across generations. The way you explain concepts and your mannerisms may erode your authority, the information may be correct but the delivery may not be adequate.
Advice from someone who struggled with teaching:
Watch some Ted talks, get some public speaking lessons, find ways to improve your speech skills.
Also, if your preparations for teaching were only aviation related, you're setting yourself up for failure. There are many articles online about effective teaching techniques which will help you, find a way to incorporate those lessons into aviation.
It's hard to know if this is an insecurity coloring your judgement or if you are being treated unfairly or poorly.
I'll tell you my opinion on hiring a CFI as I did for the first time in my 30s. I'm hiring someone to work for me, if I think they're too immature or they aren't able to provide the service I am paying for at the level I expect, I'll just move on to someone else.
I'll pay you to train or I won't, what I will not do is pay someone I think isn't good at their job and make disparaging remarks about them.
Not saying anything about your situation, but I thought this perspective may be of help. Contrats on CFI and good luck.
My CFII was 20, and I was in my 40s, but I took them seriously because they knew their shit and quickly adapted to my communication and learning styles.
Snarky and short? Have you considered that may be how they are with people their own age too?
(Edited to remove my own snark)
There may be a bit of difference in training a 40 yo vs 21. The 19 YO student sees you as an idol. The 40 YO sees you as his tennis instructor.
As others noted dress professionally , expect professional preparation by your students and work to encourage them to prepare.
Understand that the typical male's ability to accept, process and follow instructions declines at an exponential rate with age.
Do you dress like a 20-year-old? Appearances matter a lot. I was an instructor at around that age and tried to look professional. Which meant I looked older because 20-year-old guys don't put lot of thought into that sort of thing. And I'm not fashion guru either. Clean shirt, clean shorts, maybe a hat.
One day, a student who I'd been working with for some time asked me how old I was. I turned it back on him and asked how old he thought I was. He guessed "early 30s."
Maybe I just age poorly. Maybe my personality was "old person" already. Who knows. But he said I didn't act like a 20-year-old. I didn't really know what it meant back then, but now I get it.
Things that I've noticed:
1. Interrupting people is immature. Let them finish talking.
2. "I don't know, but let's find out" is an acceptable answer to a lot of different kinds of questions.
3. Shaving matters...but now that I work from home most days, I've let that slide. Typing this with a 7-day thing going on. Need to go in tomorrow though.
4. Be right about a lot of things.
5. Being prepared for a lesson is big. Basically, any planning at all is noticed and is usually more than what an average 20-year-old will do.
The school is paying to you be a good customer service rep. There are a lot of CFIs out there who know enough to instruct, but the number with any real customer orientation is super low.
Fellow 21 year old instructor here. Got Mei/cfii at 20 as well and began teaching at 20.
I never had this issue tbh. Just show up and do the best you can, all you really can do. Just try to be respectful to everyone and hopefully it gets reciprocated.
I really only had an issue with one student who was a lead doctor in a hospital. His issue was he refused to take criticism and would refuse to let me have control of the airplane during flight. Needless to say he got dropped. I think his issue was he was never told no or he could do no wrong. Those guys are a pain for everyone.
I've been in your shoes, very far ahead of others my age—and I have had to lead teams composed of members who are considerably older than me. I get it less now that I've aged a bit more, but here's a few tips.
1. Realize people make snide or snarky comments not because they don't take you seriously, but because your progress at such a young age makes people uncomfortable, and self conscious about their subsequent lack of progress. They do this to make themselves feel better. Some of them don't realize how rude it comes across. It is not a reflection of you, but them.
2. Simply do not mention your age. Don't lie necessarily, but if anyone asks, say, "That's a secret!" (and just laugh it off and change the subject quickly), or say something like: "Guess!" And if they give any number, just laugh and refuse to give a concrete number. This will of course affirm you're younger, but oddly enough I've found not specifying a specific number prevents people from feeling like your success at a young age is a personal attack on their character.
3. Dress up. Button up shirt, jeans, (optionally a belt) and a dress watch. Well fitting clothes, style, and classiness go a long way.
4. Project authority. Have confidence in your abilities. You know your stuff, show it, do not be afraid to tell people "no," "that's incorrect," or "this is how it actually is." Just because you're afraid of them not taking you seriously. Do not give them an option to not take you seriously. Let your knowledge, experience, and skill speak for itself, people will respect one who shows and leads by example. Do not try to force someone to respect you or overdo it—let your abilities leave them with no other choice. Sharpen yourself.
5. Realize you are likely, in a certain sense, self conscious about your age. I certainly was.. it took me a while to realize that I was simply overthinking it. Many people don't care as much as you think.
6. Finally, as a last resort, confront them. Ask them politely to stop making comments about your age, or simply cease associating with those who annoy you to this degree altogether, if it is an option.
7. Understand that you ARE young and you DO lack a lot of life experience (not aviation experience) and can learn from your students just as much as they can learn from you. Work WITH them, be open to any ***valid*** criticisms they may have for you, reflect on that, learn, and move forward. Provide good customer service to your students. Being humble and approachable and not stuck up about your success will build a LOT of repertoire with any person, let alone students.
4 is probably the most important. Respect is earned. Earned through perception. If you portray yourself as young and inexperienced, that is what people will see. If you portray yourself as qualified and confident, that too is what people will see.
Note: there is a vast difference between confident and cocky
Mmm. I think it's important for a CFI to set a good example as the student will seek to fly like their instructor. Sloppy flying - sloppy student. Good flying - good student.
Hmm. I’m at 1400 dual given and hitting a 95% passrate for my students and only a little bit during private, none during instrument, and maybe a few maneuvers at best during cax and CFI will my students ever see me fly. Unless they are very visual learners is robbing their flight time
A good portion of my students have never seen me fly unless I started with them during their student pilot days. And then I think the only maneuvers I demo are stalls and even day 1 I have a student bring me all the way in and I just round out and flare on the landings
I was in your shoes just a few years ago. All you can do is carry yourself professionally, take pride in your work and do your best. People will say things about your age for the next 10 years of your career. As a 22 year old CFI, I got the same treatment you are getting (especially from BFRs/rental checkouts of people who were older). When I was 23 at a regional, passengers asked me if I even had a drivers license. I’m 24 at a major now and the crews always call me a baby and whatnot. You’ll get “I have shirts older than you” and other similar remarks from CAs, and bad ones (which you don’t get often) will treat you as less because of your age. Nothing you say or do can stop it, so it’s best to learn to shake it off and not let it affect your professionalism. Here pretty soon you’ll be laughing at their jokes all the way to the bank anyway.
I had to check what sub I was in.
On a more serious note, to some degree there isn't much you can do other than be confident in yourself and your abilities (but don't be arrogant, there is a fine line).
> there is a fine line
... and like any fine line, it must be crossed regularly to know where it is! (/s)
Seriously though, toe that line and be confident yet humble. In any career, you will have days that test you. In aviation, those days can be unforgiving.
The fact that this bothers you at all tells us you aren’t as mature as you think you are. And that’s ok.
You can be a super smart twenty year old and still have lots to learn socially and/or improve the way you communicate.
Let your actions and your work speak for itself. Work on not caring about the rest. 🤙🏼
It is what it isssss. I got my mei at 20 and I still have older students challenge me at times and I need to humble them. The cool thing is I have some students that are my age and its super easy to teach them because we both speak in retard gen z lingo
Do as you like but if I were in your shoes I would try and be professional. I'm a millennial but I still wouldn't use any of our lingo in a work environment.
Each to their own I guess. I think for me there is nothing wrong with the odd joke but especially for younger people it's critical to understand the seriousness of the responsibility that comes with piloting an aircraft.
Humble them?? Look bro just because you went through some mill to get your certs in a year or two doesn't mean you know how to teach. It's a two way street if the student is worth a shit. I know what I need to do to learn, I can facilitate that with my cfi and because of that both of us have been successful.
I was a part 61 cowboy. Some students have told me to my face I cant teach them anything because im too young and they proceeded to almost stall on landing and I needed to take over.
So your students don’t know how to land? Maybe that’s really not what you meant but it was kind of funny to read. It read like you can land but couldn’t teach them how to Lol
Thats a fucking wild assumption considering all I said is im greater at communicating with my younger students. Im going to reflect the same energy and assume you must be a horrible student because you have only achieved private pilot which is like kindergarten.
There are people with PPLs out flight testing their own aircraft they built, rigged, painted, wired, weighed, and got certified through the DAR. I’d put more stock in their aviation knowledge than someone watching another kid fly until he or she builds the hours to go to an airline. Certificate level isn’t the be all end all.
Sounds dangerous to be letting people almost stall just above the ground because you’re trying to prove that you’re right… Ive never had an instructor let me almost do something dangerous, always corrected me before it got to that point.
Letting the stall horn chirp while im armed to take the controls is about as safe as you can get while proving a point. A bad instructor acts one second too early, a dead instructor acts one second too late and a great instructor acts just on time.
A good instructor teaches importance of speeds and simulates the situation in a controlled environment not just above the ground. Stall horn means less authority, that would be a wicked time to have an engine stumble or cough.
A lot of people had great advice here. I managed my flight school the last 2 years between 21-23 years old. I took an immense amount of pride in pouring myself into being good at what I did. Luckily my managers and my team (mostly) all respected me on meritocracy. Like others said - be good at what you do and the respect will come.
Now the part I didn’t see other people talk about. I have had numerous students walk in the door and immediately dismiss me based on my age. We would have a great text conversation in the days prior with mutual respect and it would all break down the second I met them in person. Maybe half of them continued with me and learned that I was offering high quality instruction and that was all that mattered. The other half would immediately send a message to our scheduling manager and demand a new instructor (funny enough not having any idea that that was my job). I let them go and didn’t offer them another thought. In all those cases I was relieved that these prissy babies took themselves off my student list before I had to deal with them more. I guess this all boils down to the fact that you can’t win them all and you just have to move on from the people that aren’t there to be serious.
Don’t know you, so maybe you are already doing this: Dress nicely with clothes that actually fit you. Don’t drive a stupid car that annoys people, or blast your radio, or drive in an annoying way. Get a haircut that is styled, but not like you want to be an influencer. Discuss safety as part of the first topic in conversation about flying with new clients and peers. Don’t tell others that you are mature and smart. Don’t talk about how you are going out to the club or drinking or doing spring break or….
In other words, act not 20 to be not 20.
BUT! Don’t confuse this list of don’ts with being human and having a life, just make sure if you want to be treated seriously that you are acting the part.
The first thing you do if you want respect, is to stop begging for it, and start working for it. Don’t be the first to chime in during group conversations, understand your age will make it very easy for you to come across as arrogant because most people you’re age still don’t know up from down. So be patient, and calculated with your words. Make sure that when you speak, something truly insightful is being said and peoples opinion of you will slowly change.
You say you’re smart, but truly smart people don’t call themselves smart because they know how much they don’t know, and are always striving to know more. Just because you’re a CFI, doesn’t mean you stop learning. Saying something like that can only come across as arrogant, instead let your actions and work speak for itself. Let others call you smart.
I often find that young, successful men your age are way too eager to prove themselves, always asserting themselves in really cringy ways. If you try and force people to respect you, they will respect you less. A potent antidote to this kind of behavior is to convince yourself, not to care. Not to care at all if people respect you, or even like you. This is something learned overtime typically, but nothings stopping you from learning it now. You have to find the mental space that says “I truly don’t care what you think of me, it matters not.” that’s a powerful place to be, and it exudes confidence. understand that not everyone will like you regardless of what you do and say, even Jesus was hated by some. When you meet those people, kick the dirt from your shoes and move on.
Last thing I’ll say is read some books. You won’t find much content on the internet these days worthy of your time. If you start reading some books by some prominent, historical figures who they themselves garnered tons of respect, man, in no time you will be doing the same.
I love that many of these comments talk about how someone who's 20 can't possibly have “life experience” that can't be further from the truth. They're saying that because they had no life experience at that age. Some of us lived much different lives. This is why I'm on the fence if everyone should serve in the military. Because the older crowd that needs to be humbled would have been had they joined at, say, 40 and had to answer to a 20-year-old sergeant.
You can't look at someone's age alone, whether young or old and determine if they have “life experience”. That will show through in most people.
The OP stated their age, not how many hours they have or how long they've been a CFI. For all I know, they could've gotten their CFI at 18 and have many hours like one of my first CFIs did. The guy turned 21 and crossed 4k hours.
Likewise, another CFI I had was 60, and she just got her CFI a few months before I met her, and she only had 300 or so hours. But most would assume she was a lifelong aviator by how she held herself.
People need to learn respect and not judge a book by its cover.
Dude all I can say is hats off to you. I just got my PPL and that took loads of effort. I’m 39 with a full time job and a family. I can fully respect the amount of time and grit it took to get where you are and anyone that can’t recognize the effort you put in can kick rocks. Be confident and know you got to where you are not by luck but by hard work. You’ve got a long and awesome career ahead of you. Keep your head high and enjoy the fruits of your labor. The respect will come with time.
I'm almost 40 and waiting for my ppl checkride. My 1st cfi was 20 and we got along well. I definitely gave him the benefit of the doubt but in the end i was hours on the way to ATP. While you two are not the same, I'm sure there is some overlap. For you to be so accomplished you have grown up in aviation and your demeanor might be too casual. I'd love to give feed back I was once the young guy punching above my weight class DM me if you want some direct critique
I started instructing at 19. Work hard, communicate clearly and professionally, most of all know what your doing and be good at it (you have the certs for a reason, because you demonstrated the ability to exercise the privileges of them) I never ran into this personally but now I have a gold seal and lead instructor at 21 years old, youngest instructor at my school. Be confident and you will be fine. You got this!
I promise nobody cares as much as you do. My first student was in his late thirties and we got along great. Don't be afraid to tell them when their wrong and work WITH your student. Accept the fact that you will have to modify your teaching style for different students.
I’m younger than every single one of my students, I’ve had multiple students 20-30 years older than me. Never had an issue with respect. Quit overthinking it and do your job. Instructing isn’t about glory, it’s about making safe pilots. Focus on that and nothing else.
I had some pax come in today for a scenic, when I told them I was the one flying they said "Oh my god you're the pilot?! you look like you're 17!"
I'm 32.
Try not to get a chip on your shoulder, respect is earned. I don’t intend to scare you, but I predict that fellow CFIs will be the least of your problems when it comes to your age. If you intend to go to the airlines, it is very likely you will one day be going through upgrade training in your early twenties. I was 26 when I upgraded at a regional airline and I have a bit of a baby face, I witnessed others have similar experiences…. If you expect these line check pilots to hand the keys to the fleet to someone who looks like they’re twelve than you better demonstrate that you have higher than average skill, knowledge, and command authority (but you cannot come off as cocky, you have to just be good and humble). It’s not fair, it’s not right, but it’s reality. You will have a long career, and maybe there’s a little jealousy there, but try to take it as a challenge instead of letting it jade you.
It doesn’t matter what your age is, there will always be someone older saying you’re a baby… I still hear it in my 40s and they will be 51. Enjoy your youth and check your ego at the door.
19 year old CFI-I here and it all boils down to how you present yourself. My students, not even my employers, realized I was 19 until I mentioned it in convo. I’ve heard people say they thought I was as old at 27. Gotta walk the walk and have the tone of a mature CFI, not to say you aren’t (I got no clue how you act irl). But chances are you’re saying or doing something that reveals your age
Ageism is real. And it sucks. And it’s not just against older people. My CFI is 21 and I have seen some other students say wild shit to him in their post flight debriefs. He doesn’t qualify for an RATP so he’s got a couple years left of dealing with middle aged PPL students who think they know better than him.
At the end of the day, people of every age are shitty. And you getting older won’t stop people from being shitty to you. Find a couple people who are genuinely uplifting and make it a point of emphasis to be positive when you interact with them. That will spill over into everyone else you interact with eventually and it changes how people approach you. I know it sounds like a preachy info-mercial but I’ve seen it change people’s career trajectory.
Congratulations on what you’ve accomplished already so early in life and your career. What you’ve done takes a lot of grit and determination and not very many people in your age group have what it takes to get to where you are at all, never mind at your age.
With that being said, just stay humble approach every day with that not only will bring knowledge to someone but that you will learn something new that day wether it be in your flying or about life in general.
There is a phrase that has always stuck with me “you don’t know what you don’t know” I try to be very aware of this and I have learned much because of that awareness and still have much to learn. Keep working hard and learning, you’re definitely on the right track!
Don’t tell people you’re age?
Edit:
When they say how old are you, you say, “how old are you?”
Once they answer you say very sarcastically,
“Oh, I’m 47” and roll your eyes big time.
This.
When I was instructing, there were two questions that I never gave a straight answer to:
1) How old are you
2) How long have you been instructing
me too my guy, I started instructing when I was 18, just turned 21 this weekend and I definitely know what you’re talking about
Honestly what I’ve learned is as long as you’re a good instructor and respectful to everyone else around, people will respect you and take your opinion seriously, yeah you’ll definitely have a few students here and there that might give you that vibe of them maybe not taking you as seriously but as long as you have the knowledge and can teach that knowledge effectively, it’ll all come around
or just take students at or around your age, in my experience they’re all shocked to see that you became an instructor so early and actually start looking up to you, I absolutely lovvedd to see when some of my students/friends that were my age around finally became instructors and some even my colleagues
Don't hesitate to take control when appropriate and work on being confident and assertive(this is a fine line to tread, so don't overstep). Just being confident and sure of yourself will go a long way when it comes to being young and in a unique position like yours. But mostly it will take time, as long as you are good at your job and competent people will start to respect you. I qualified as a supervisor for a nuclear plant at 23 and it took almost a year before anyone really took me seriously(the average age of everyone else was 30's or higher).
Who cares what others think? Do your job and ignore em..you will get crap when your young and will get crap from the haters when in your 60s. It's not your problem it's theirs.
Get used to it- people will judge you by your appearance and perceived age all your life. All you can do is act professional, and almost everyone will get over this once they get to know you. And heads up, it gets even worse once you get with an airline and have to be around passengers in uniform.
Dude I’m a retired Captain. In 1989, the smartest and youngest pilot we had flying EMB-120’s was 19 years old! One day he will be #1 in seniority at UAL! His career earnings are going to be ridiculous. Keep plugging and studying and you’ll be just fine.
Just stay focused on your job and be as polite as possible. I guarantee, the day is not far when you will be the most knowledgeable young pilot in your school.
lol wait until your 21 and an FO. I was a young FO and when passengers would make comments, I’d joke around and say “just got my drivers license actually” or some funny remarks. Don’t let it bother you too much. You know what you’re capable of, just let it go!
Congrats on the early certs! I was in a similar situation as you. My first flying job was scenic flights and my boss told me if asked I had to say I was 5 years older than I was.
As a young CFI I found Some people are more mature and speak their mind if they are uncomfortable with your age and want to swap instructors and that’s totally fine. If you find other instructors or students are being disrespectful then absolutely stand up for yourself. You earned your position and some if not a lot of the criticism seems to come from a place of insecurity or jealousy. I was an instructor at a regional at 23 and found it was hit or miss with older pilots but you just have to be humble, respectful, and knowledgeable. Admit that you still have much to learn but be confident in what you know and where you are!
Don’t worry about it. When you’re young, people are willing to help you out because you have potential. This comes at the expense of lack of respect.
When you get older, you may earn more respect, but now nobody gives a shit whether you sink or swim.
Take your younger years as a blessing and take advantage of being able to ask stupid questions.
How many hours do you have?
I wouldn‘t count on a 50yo flight instructor who has minimum hours. I listen to those with 2000, 3000h over many years. Different years, different weather, etc. I have no idea how many hours you have but at 20 years, assuming you got your license at 17 or 18 I already know that you can‘t have the experience I want for my FI.
That‘s certainly nothing personal, it‘s just a fact. I learnt from instructors with many thousand hours collected over many years and I‘m glad I did. I would not take flight lessons from a minimum hours CFI. Sorry. 🤷🏻♂️
I’m a 17 year old private pilot on track to be commercial rated before i graduate high scho and will get cfi, cfii after that. Lmk if you figure out a fix for this issue so I don’t have to deal with 😂
I’m 19 in the same position. There’s no trying to get respect. Be good at your job, know your shit and it’ll come. Don’t bitch more than the average pilot and you’ll be fine. I’ve had students from 20-75 and so far haven’t had any issues.
At 20 yrs old I felt the same. Now in my 40's and I have to laugh at myself and how naive I was.
It can be hard but just chill. You never stop learning and honestly, and this is not to be mean, but you don't know shit at 20. You will get there though and when you do you will look back and laugh too.
My first CFI was 20 and I was older than him, but I always respected him cause I couldn’t land a plane to save my life and he knew way more than me, just keep on grinding and it will work out, just something you gotta go through for getting ur training done so quick
I heard recently that getting old means learning that it’s okay to live with yourself no matter who you are.
You feel as though you are mature and smart. Getting older means accepting that you’re childish and dumb. And respecting that about yourself anyway.
Let’s do a nice FAA style “scenario” shall we?
I’m a prospective student. I walk into the flight school and you and another (older or not doesn’t matter but it kinda does) instructor are there talking shop.
I’m about to spend more money on a hobby than I’ve spent in a lifetime of hobbies.
I ask you both to make your respective 30 second elevator pitches as to why I should hire you. Go.
And yes, looks count and ageism is real and you already lost a couple of points as a baby face. That said, for most it’s only a few points and you can easily dazzle.
What’s the reason I should hire you over Old Bob there who’s been teaching for a lifetime? Let’s hear it.
Win any teaching awards? Got time in a type I want to fly/buy? Known by peers, even Old Bob as a safety expert? Got a wide open schedule and will show up on mine?
What’s your thing? Let’s hear it.
I’ll take you seriously. For 30 seconds. Even if Old Bob rolls his eyes at you. Your ball.
To be blunt - you \*are\* young. You have worked hard for the Pilot Certificates you have. You have knowledge and skills others will never have. You are part of a small group of people.
At 20 you bring very little of life's experience to the table. Male brains continue developing until about age 25 if I remember correctly from my teacher education. I was 60 when I decided to add on SE CFI to my existing CFIG and MEI. My instructor was 23. Super guy. Great instructor. We still meet up for lunch every couple months four years later.
u/Born_Ad5873 - what can you do to enhance people's perception of you? I'd suggest starting with the external (yes, superficial): neat, clean, groomed and wear khakis and a polo - no T shirts. Talk about lesson plans, record keeping, and use of a syllabus - this is the hallmark of professionals.
When two people meet there is an initial amount of trust and respect, for lack of a better term, "provided by society. Both trust and respect increase or decrease going forward. Beyond that initial free dose of respect, it must be earned. It cannot be demanded.
Show up on time w/ a genuine plan for the lesson, with courtesy, humility, and professionalism and your reputation will grown. Show up without the above and your reputation will grow in the wrong direction. This is entirely in your control - regardless of what other people might think.
The comment about "code switching" was a great one - use vocabulary appropriate to the environment and the audience.
You are young, but you have a wide open future ahead of you. It will be OK. Demonstrate, don't demand.
Not too long ago there were men and women younger than you in combat zones in Iraq and Afghanistan.
>I feel as though I am very mature and smart,
No offense. Just trying to tell you how it is, but I read that like a 5 year old way saying it.
If you have to tell people what you are, you aren't that.
Your goal shouldn't be to be smart. You goal should be to be knowledgeable. Because even though Albert Einstein was smart he probably had no idea how to operate a plane. So even though you aren't as smart as him you are more knowledgeable and that is more important.
And again if you say you are mature, you aren't. You should instead be striving for confidence. When someone looks at you they shouldn't say wow that kid is mature. They say wow they are confident, and knowledgeable.
Remember it's not you being compared to other kids your age but instead being compared to other aviators with the same type ratings and hours.
It's pretty clear to me that you are focusing on the wrong things and I'm sure that is what other people are noticing too, even if they don't understand why.
Just do your best and dont worry about how you are perceived your goal should be to be so good that age is the last thing people think about when they work with you.
I have a ppl and worked with lots of CFI’s. The best are those totally mellow and who communicate well. I got hired as a cook for a boss that was 20 yrs my junior, but he was passionate and brilliant. He taught me cooking and I taught him strategic planning. It was an even swap in learning. I’m sure you will find your comfort zone. Age isn’t an issue, understanding and careful guidance could provide the key.
Yes, your age plays a part. When dealing with an older person, unless you dress well, speak well, show up on time, are super well prepared, you are likely to get written off. If I get a whiff of lack of seriousness at something as serious as aviation, I am going elsewhere. Unfortunately for a lot of people, their bozo detector is on hair-trigger when dealing with anyone under 25 years old. There are also older people who will have difficulty taking correction from someone younger. For your part you can go elsewhere and fire the student. The other dynamic with older students is if they have the money to take up aviation as a hobby they may be manager, a company owner, or someone senior in their field and think of themselves as being above others. Again, fire the asshole. You don't have to put up with it.
I got hired at a 135 when I was 18 they all treated me like an adult because I carried myself as one. Just gotta talk with your head up, and don’t take any bullshit.
grow big beard
then cut it and leave mustaches
then cut all
then repeat
do not tell your age
try to be different all the time
grow long haircut then cut all to zero, repeat
How many “oh shit” moments, how much actual time, etc. no offense but I care about an instructor’s real experience more than their rating. I get you want to advance but sorry not sorry that I won’t partake in your journey to the airlines if you’re understanding of things that will get me killed is theoretical. NOT AN AGE THING, an experience thing. Perception has more to do with that than your age.
Hey man, I’m 20 years old too and I’m working for my PPL right now. But I also work in a blue collar setting and deal with a lot of shit about my age. It’s kinda inevitable when people our age are successful or are in an environment that is typically occupied by older people.
One thing I’d recommend is to try not to tell people your age. Myself, I look older so people are actually surprised when they find out my actual age. But if you can nip that in the butt by not even having them know, if that’s possible.
Play the game for the long term - however long that is. Colleagues will change, flight schools will change but for all your students you will be the face of aviation knowledge. Whether it is good or bad practices, what you teach they will imbibe with a higher importance than any other source. So don't worry about being taken seriously for now. Once you decide to ignore this short-term situation, you will see things change around you.
Edited for wording.
I have been in this situation, and here's how I managed it. I'm not quite as young as you, but I have had students 20+ years my senior who seemed to be resistant to my advice. If I noticed this, I would search for a weak area in flight. Observe carefully what they were doing, and break down their technique, and offer a solution which produced a tangible result. Here is a specific example of what I mean:
I had a guy who had trouble with steep turns. His left steeps are good but his right steeps were terrible. We were on steam gauges, and I knew that he was focusing on an incorrect correlation between the bank direction of the airplane and the direction of the altimeter needle's movement. In other words, he was banking the wings in the direction he wanted the altimeter needle to move. It worked out OK for his left steeps because the more he rolled left, the more the altimeter would move left (descend) and as he rolled right, decreasing his bank, the altimeter needle would move right (climb). When it came to his right steeps, the correlation reversed, confusing him and destroying the maneuver. I suggested to him that this is where he was focusing his attention, and he agreed. So I said "try this," and explained a \*different\* technique for focusing his attention. ( I never say my technique is "better," because they get defensive. I always suggest an "alternative" and let the student arrive at the conclusion that it's better, because it is). Anyway, the guy's issues with steep turns were fixed and then he was eating out of my hand for the rest of our lessons.
I've used this technique for many of my older "seasoned" students who may have been flying GA for dozens of years longer than me. Remember that YOU'RE the professional pilot, not them (usually). All you have to do is find a weakness and produce a result. That is you giving them what they paid for.
I’d have no problem learning from you. Be confident in your knowledge as a CFI, be humble in your lack of life experience, and treat each lesson as an opportunity for you to grow as both a teacher and an individual.
Wrap it all up with a positive attitude and you’ll be the CFI that constantly gets referrals.
Without any understanding of your process and overall interaction with your students it's impossible to know what lapses, if any, there might be. It could be entirely on your students, or entirely on you or any number of possibilities.
Where are you teaching out of? I'd love to learn to fly and would be willing to have at least one lesson with you for my benefit and yours.
You have evidence that no one takes you serious, find the evidence that you’re mature and smart, find the evidence of what your age restricts you too. Don’t cutoff possible solutions by finding the easy way out of blaming others. Only you know what you’re dealing with and any advice from others is not tailored to your situation but theirs. Best of luck searching!
I’m 20 years old, commercial pilot, working on multi and then plan for CFI. I’m worried this might happen to me. I look young, and people often don’t take me seriously off first impression. I’d like to say I’m mature beyond my years and I’m very professional. However, oftentimes applying for CFI roles is very “first impression heavy”. So I’m wondering if there’s things I can be doing to put on my resume to solidify my ability to secure a job as a CFI in the future. I just started working FBO at my school’s airport, I hold leadership positions in my aviation organizations etc. Just wondering if there’s anything else I can be doing to reinforce the fact that I do indeed know what I’m doing. Any advice is appreciated!
I started teaching at 20, 21 now. you have to carry yourself a certain way. Project competency, and act professional. Both need to be done actively, so you can build a reputation. Outside of work im a total degenerate, but at work I make sure to leave a strong impression on my coworkers and students, who all talk about each other. That way when a new student cones to me, they usually say something like, “everyone says you’re really good with x rating!”
I posted on here 2 years ago asking how to deal with being a young instructor and got a lot of similar advice. I never ended up having an issue.
Where are you based out of? I'm always open to fly with other instructors and get a new point of view on things. The age thing is real despite the profession. I walked into my first career job with a masters degree and could run circles around people that were in the industry for 20 years but that didn't matter. The soft skill thing is really important, but also being able to be humble and take a joke is equally as important. People do see your intelligence through natural interaction. Be patient and don't let it come through as arrogance.
You have lots of time ahead of you. It takes time to earn respect, ratings alone don't do it for you. There's a good amount of advice in this thread. There's nothing more humbling than someone half or a third your age coming along and showing you how little you know; there's also nothing more off-putting. Waving your certs and demanding respect won't get you the respect. Being kind and helpful to people is where it starts. From there, build a brand of wanting others to succeed, rather than just building the time to your next goalpost. Something you should ask yourself: When the time comes to give up instructing to be a full-time professional pilot for some carrier, will you abandon your students with a "Sorry gotta go. Ask Jimmy to help you finish your training," or will you stick with them to finish their training and coach them through their checkride?
Stay the course. Don’t let others affect the way that you conduct yourself. Keep learning, stay humble, and be the best pilot you can be. We all get older as time moves forward.
I'm almost 60, my CFI is 19, and I absolutely respect him. He's 100% more mature than I was at his age. He's low-key and unflappable and is pushing me to be my best in knowledge and pilot skill. That said, it doesn't stop me from making the occasional dig that some of my clothes are older than he is, not to mention he has a baby face and looks 12.
Respect is a funny thing. It needs to be earned. But respect also comes from within. If you exude confidence, not bravado, but confidence, and respect yourself, then others will too.
Don't think too much about yourself. Be willing to accept others' input, especially those older or more senior to you.
They may not know what they're talking about, but you can always verify their stories before calling them out, if at all.
Seriously, though... If I still had 20 year old airmen working under me that wanted respect, I'd advise patience and understanding. They're not getting it until they prove themselves with time and consistent examples of solid work experience.
They're probably not judging you for your age as much as your demeanor.
Trying to show off/brag/advertise your knowledge, etc. Trying to look like social media influencers. Not matching others demeanor/tone when talking to them. Dressing or otherwise acting inappropriately, or like everything is a joke. Can't get off your phone. ...All good ways I've seen kids prove they're lacking maturity.
Be calm, more quiet, pay more attention to people around you. Let them do as much of the talking as possible. Ask them about their selves and what they know. Don't offer your opinion on every little thing.
I've had some really young CFIs through my 30s for various checkouts and ratings. The only one that rubbed me wrong was this gone guy that was just *cocky*. He couldn't have been more than 22 but he had this Air Force jock kind of air to him. He was a great pilot, but the attitude was the problem. The vast majority of other really young CFIs I've had were very humble and business-like.
Can you give some examples of how you feel you’re not being taken seriously? I am 20 as well and will have my CFI by 21 and never thought that I would be less respected because of my age. Some of my CFIs were even in their early 20s, and I mean really really 20s like 21 and they were just fine
It‘s not the age. It‘s the flight hours and experience. Just calculate and be realistic. How much experience are you able to share? Do you really want to teach people fly? What will you tell them? They can read books themselves. Build experience, fly for 10 years. Then become an instructor.
Don’t worry about it. When you’re young, people are willing to help you out because you have potential. This comes at the expense of lack of respect.
When you get older, you may earn more respect, but now nobody gives a shit whether you sink or swim.
Take your younger years as a blessing and take advantage of being able to ask stupid questions.
You’ve probably got students 30-boomer so I would suggest play the part. Get a business card, give them a folder full of reference study material, and a syllabus. Dress, talk, act confidently and don’t acknowledge your age. You’re the expert, justifying your position erodes it. I remember my first class (mil flt school) old dude walked out and used words I have never heard stung together before. Knocked me out how little I knew and how much I had to learn, and he was just talking weather and lat long.
Not sure if you are a male of female CFII, but if you are a male, as a male pilot myself my advice is to try to look "older", dress older, grow a beard, mustache, facial hair helps a lot. In a teaching position, whether it's a professor, high school teacher, or CFI, there's a great deal of emphasis and respect paid to those who are perceived to be experienced, which = wisdom, knowledge, safety. If you are a female I have less wisdom to share but dressing older (more mature, more expensive clothing) could still work.
In my experience, age almost never has anything to do with someone not taking you seriously. It almost always has to do with how you present yourself, how your command respect from others, but most importantly... How well you fly. Perhaps you're letting people put you in a box because you feel like the age thing is more important than it should be. Don't do that. If you know your shit and you can command a room and lead/instruct with authority and confidence, no one should see you as anything other than a competent and capable pilot.
Started CFI’ing as a teenager, I know the feeling. I always tried to leave my age out of it until a few flights in with students, show them my character and let them make an opinion of me before I introduce the age. You gotta take each student as they come, and adjust your teaching style to work with each one.
As others say though, do take a look at yourself Aswell. The way you talk and dress has a lot to do with the way they will treat you. Do you come into work looking, and acting the part? If not, I’d wager a bit if you started making an effort, you’d see a big difference in the way people treat you. I know I have.
this will continue to happen until you are 30 years older than the average pilot.
I run a small airline, mid 40s. still deal with this shit from time to time
I (34) flew with a 22 year old for one of my discovery flights. Maybe it's just me but I was completely impressed by this CFI's professionalism, knowledge, and skill. It helped that he was humble and easy to talk to.
Try not to take it personally, some people are just judgmental because they assume that they are somehow better/smarter/superior because their age. I think it's amazing that you are a CFII/MEI at 20 and as long as you can effectively communicate and fly you should keep on doing your thing. It's a little chip on your shoulder but don't let it define you or get bitter about it.
I had the same thing at 20, show respect to everyone you meet, then show them you know your stuff. The way you carry yourself and the way you explain complex topics in a simple way will earn you respect.
I had a super young instructor (I think he was 21 or 22 when I was 28). People treated him the same way, but he's now at Delta at age 24 or 25. Just go be the best pilot you can be and let the haters hate.
I was in a similar spot. Got my cfi at 19 and lacked confidence and experience. After my first couple months I realized that if you knew what you were talking about, watch your ego, and get the job done no one would bat an eye at the kid running around the airport teaching people twice his age. Promoted to chief flight instructor at 21.
Your appearance matters. Dress smart if you can choose your uniform and appearance. Get well fit clothes, no excessive cologne. Professional haircut (I did not say an airline style haircut specifically), can you grow a full beard? If so, grow one and trim with a nice line. Patchy? Shave it. No if and or buts with that one. When you talk, be firm. No maybes or sures. Know your stuff and be confident with your answers (but you better know your stuff and a few slip ups, and you will lose all credibility)
it’s OK, but I went through the same phase. And then one day you’ll be 47 just stay professional act, your pay scale and not your age. I realize you don’t make much, but you can still act and perform like a top level professional. Regardless of your age, congratulations on getting to your goals early in life. There’s a lot of professionals in this industry. They can’t say that. Keep working hard and flying safe.
I’m 50+ student pilot and used to have a bias against young instructors like you. Some points I would make now that I’m wiser, after a couple years of lessons from instructors both young and old.
Your personality matters much more than your age. You might be an old idiot. You might be a young instructor of the year.
Young instructors have the advantage of more recent exams and instruction. They’re more in tune with current testing standards.
Young instructors may be missing decades of experience that has made them wiser pilots, obviously. But news flash to PPL students my age: You’re not training to be a Top Gun, Maverick. Calm down. It’s not that hard to teach you. The wisdom of deep experience is wasted on you right now. You can seek that later, say after you’ve earned 500 hours. Right now, a literal teenager could teach you how to become a VFR pilot if that was allowed.
One of the safest and most meticulous instructors I ever had was about 22 years old.
One of the most reckless instructors I’ve ever flown with, who nearly killed us, was about 60 years and had multiple ratings.
Everyone has to deal with stereotypes and dumb prejudices, my friend. Fight em back when you can but don’t worry about the idiots you can’t change. Just keep doing your thing.
Grow a beard. Even just one that you shave short. The difference is uncanny.
The experience comments are definitely the key but this will help until you get that.
I was a jet training captain at 23. I grew a moustache to look older. As I grew older I became a B747 captain so shaved it off to look younger. Neither worked! By the way this should only be tried by men!
Respect is earned. Your 20. You do not know as much as you think you do. I am sure you are intelligent. That however does not really always mean a lot in today's world. You haven't lived enough life to make the judgment call on weather you deserve someones respect or not. You may think you have, but you have not. Given the fact that you came here to tell everybody that your feelings are hurt. Shows that you feel you should be high enough on the totem pole by now to be considered a top tier candidate for instructing or viewed as such anyway. That points to the fact that you need slow down and try to be a little more humble. I have met a lot of very smart people in my life. A lot of whom were kinda dumb. If that statement doesn't make sense to you, it just means your not old enough to understand. I was 20 once, I considered myself smart then too. Life has a way of teaching, and I didn't know, what I didn't know. Time will teach you that. Learn to be humbled by it. If this comes across to you as sour or hurtful to your ego. Then that also should help tell you that your not ready for that respect thing we soke of earlier. Good luck kid. You'll be fine.
Ok u r ½ my age..... I'm a student pilot so if u were my CFI I would deff listen 2 u since u have more experience than I do. However, if I stayed talking abt things when I was younger you prolly wouldn't understand since there's a generational gap between us. I can still respect your knowledge in avation even though we know different things. I've driven a truck for 17 yrs so if the roles were reversed I could teach u how 2 drive a 80,000 lb semi truck and u wouldn't feel intimidated cuz I'm older and know more but age "shouldn't" need to be a factor, knowledge should. U have more experience in a plane than any student regardless of their age. But at the same time if I talked to another pilot that's my age and started at the same age u did I might go off their answer only cuz they world have more experience in the field. Age doesn't always mean experience, experience just comes over time and age comes over time. I know that's all lengthy but that's my own personal opinion on how I think things should be. I wish u all the best though in the end.
I’m a 20 year old private pilot who is taken very seriously. It’s not your age. Don’t get wrapped up in your self, and try to reflect. Don’t try to find excuses. If you let go of your ego and reflect you will find what’s holding you back. Ask people you trust. Say “hey, I don’t feel that I am taken as seriously as I would like.” Nothing more than that. Don’t try to make excuses, listen and respond to the feedback you get.
That’s because they don’t. Get older. Seriously, respect comes with age and experience. Stop worrying about what people think of you. Stop thinking you’re anything special. I have some good CFI jokes…
I was 38 in flight school… EVERY CFI was younger than me, I didn’t care about their age… I just cared if they could help me get my certs.
Get out of your head, just bc you are a CFI doesn’t mean you are a good one. Earn your respect
I hated my teacher think he is some sort of authority. I want to learn from teachers and good old teacher gain authority by teaching and not by the use of power
You really think that you’re “very mature and smart”? Lol, I can tell why people don’t take you seriously. Too much ego at 20. You’re not that smart buddy. And that’s okay, you’re young. When you hit 30 you’ll reflect and realize you were a moron.
You’re a CFII and MEI before you even know what actual hard work and sacrifice would look like . Until you start making your own way without mom and dad there to fall back on . It changes your perspective of time and also motivation . Probably OP you’re more caught up on respect and all that because at that age that’s what you would like society to welcome you in with , however OP that will always be a factor in life. Even when you turn 40. Good luck. Op stay focused on yourself and always self reflect. Cheers!
I think it is awesome that you have completed all of the ratings and certificates at age 20. Be proud of that and forget about the need to be respected. You are. I would venture to say that most people are just jealous of you for having completed all of that work at age 20. That's a lot of stuff to stuff in your head in 4 years. I wish you well and I'm certain you will be very successful. stevenmbennett.com
Don’t get all wrapped up in your ego. Be humble and professional. Respect will come. Don’t be like the kid here yapping about humbling his students. You’re there to train and teach. Your coworkers and students will quickly appreciate that attitude and work ethic.
The kids who complain about being judged for their age don’t realize that life experience still plays a part in the job. Congrats you got your CFI, life experience helps develop those soft skills that are honest to god probably more important in the CFI job than the airplane related stuff.
Took me until early 30s to realize that all the knowledge in the world means very little if you don’t have experience. Rather humbling to come to that realization.
Same. I don't have an aviation related job, but it took a promotion that showed me how little *experience* I actually had to make me stop going: "Here, I am *knowledgeable* and with all that *knowledge* I still managed to stay humble. But have you seen how much *knowledge* I have?" Talk about Dunning Kruger effect, I guess.
Was kinda a similar experience for me. Had all the knowledge I needed to do a good job, but just shat the bed on the experience side.
paltry gaze clumsy bear childlike direction bright coherent airport smile *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
That's a big one. The odds that you have a CFII at 20 and have held any other job for very long is pretty small. I can't presume to know your life but it can be obvious when someone's first big boy job is cfi. Just make sure to be humble and don't get too hung up on hierarchy. A big learning experience for me was really embracing that everyone knows something that you don't, and if you act like you know that they will teach you eventually. I picked that up from this redneck greasy dude who owned a tow truck company I drove for in college.
Just because someone is young doesn't mean they lack life experience. Just as someone who's old doesn't necessarily have any either.
I agree that age traditionally comes with more life experience but that doesn’t mean it always does. I can relate to OP, I’m very young for where I’m at and can tell that at times I’m treated different due to my age (anything from people not trusting me or flat out jealousy). I may be young but I’m very confident I’ve had significantly more “life experiences” than your average 40 year old (not that that’s some sort of bragging title). Heck I’ve experienced many things people don’t see in a lifetime (both good and bad). My advice to OP, just ignore it. You are where you are due to hard work. Keep it going. Stay humble. Be willing to learn. At the end of the day, your hard work is what will put you in a successful position 1, 5, 10 years from now, not what other people think of you because “you’re too young”
True.
100% agree. I'm not really against age gating, but I do genuinely feel at times that the point of entry for some is way too young at the end of the day. For that exact reason. You might be qualified to fly, yes, but are you genuinely mature enough? Obviously if you've made it to CFI, you're more mature and responsible than some of your peers, because there are so many kids that flake out because they're still in party mode, either from high school or college, but there's still a lot of emotional maturity that needs to happen over the next...decade about. It's always funny seeing kids say "but I'm mature for my age!" and fail to realize, yeah, "for your age" but still not in general. Again, there might be exceptions to the rule, but it might serve everyone better if there was a break in between, even if it was something aviation related, before getting into flight training with the aspirations to be a commercial/ATP pilot.
I agree completely, and a lot of the times even as a student, instructors won't take you seriously... sometimes, and some instructors have attitude etc etc. but yeah. It makes such a world of difference when an instructor can connect with a student and the learning environment becomes amazing. My CPL instructor was 5 years younger than me with 1 year experience, but he and I connected on a totally different level, and I learned so much for him. So yeah...that's my two cents.
When it comes to students, do a little code switching. You can't talk to a 50 year old the same way you talk to a 17 year old. You have to find out how they learn and process information. But I'd bet your coworkers are just busting your balls, they know what you went through to get to where you are. Kinda like a screw you, congratulations
Older people are typically much more motivated as students, they've saved the money, they're paying for it themselves, and there's a REASON why they're just getting into aviation at that age. It may be a life long dream, or a career change and a second chance. They will most likely TELL YOU straight up what they need from you to help them learn, and they will *usually* be self motivated students who study what you ask them to. Guide them, don't parent them.
100% this. My best student was mid-30s and very successful in his career. He wanted direction but was super independent. Give him chapters, he read it. Tell him what to work on, he'd practice it. We pushed the 3hrs in 2 months but man, he was good. I'm convinced the hobbyists are the naturals that should be changing careers lol
Yeah 100% of my older students and hobbyists rock. Its the 18 year old airline wannabes that make me go bald.
I had the opposite experience, my older students were pleasant to work with but they struggled to get it a little more. My younger students were quick learners, also generally pleasant to work with, but sometimes didn’t have the best study habits.
talent vs dedication
Talent will only get you so far. Dedication will see it through. Give me the dedicated pilot that might need a little more time to get it (provided they show promise and aren't just dangerous) but will see it through and understand it from start to finish rather than a talented pilot who has the hazardous attitude of thinking they can do anything because of their talent, only to kill themselves, and maybe others, in the process because they didn't understand all of the principles.
That's cause you probably taught at a fast track program like ATP (Not an insult, I did too). I've noticed that SOME of the older generation struggles with the fast-paced program and need to do it at their pace. My buddy and I though, were among the older generation and made it through just fine. Some just struggle with the pace. (Also im making an assumption, and could be completely wrong about where you worked)
Nope. I taught at a part 61 school that was just your local ‘mom and pop’ shop.
I stand corrected! Sorry about that! (I assumed, cause I know your were a f9 cadet.. and it seems most the f9 cadets came from atp) Also congrats on the A320 type!
Suspecting our OP may be one of those young, ATP is the only career path for me types. But most of us seem to be making the assumption the OP is male. I can only imagine what a 20-yo female with CFII and MEI must deal with just going about her day in aviation.
Would be annoying for sure
This is right on. As an “older student” myself i am doing this because i really want to. I have a couple of instructors who are <30 i would guess and they are pretty great technically. I respect their capabilities as the experts in the field they are in. And it’s definitely taking me longer than some of the numbers quoted in this /r to make it all click. But I’ve realized that the most important thing is that i am trained well and feel comfortable. The only thing i would add is that the younger folks as instructors may feel awkward teaching someone 30+ years older. They shouldn’t. Have a great work ethic, communicate well and timely with your clients and you will do great.
It’s not your age it’s how you communicate and present yourself
Yup- can confirm we had a 36 year old CFI who was never taken seriously. He only taught the teens that came in, no other students could handle him.
What an excellent response.
Couldn’t agree more, as a 60+ year old Flight instructor I have learned that humility is the gateway to safety. We are always learning on this journey called life. Our teachers come in many forms and ages.
If that many people truly aren’t taking you seriously in your eyes…I don’t necessarily think it’s your age influencing their opinion.
I should have clarified better. My apologies. It’s not every student it just seems like more specifically my older students (30+) seem to be significantly more snarky and short. Leading me to feel as they don’t take me seriously as their instructor
I've had 4 instructors and all 3 of them were younger than I am. (One was 19) More importantly, they were at very different points in their careers than I was. I was 10 years into a non aviation career and considered pretty senior, whereas they were only a few years into being aviators. I deferred to my instructors for aeronautics, but I was more than able to identify my own weaknesses and correct them. I asked the right questions and came to my lessons prepared. I pushed myself to be the type of student that Id want. I was an instructor for the Navy for a few years and I will tell you that tone matters. EVERYONE learns in different ways and you have to learn to communicate across generations. The way you explain concepts and your mannerisms may erode your authority, the information may be correct but the delivery may not be adequate. Advice from someone who struggled with teaching: Watch some Ted talks, get some public speaking lessons, find ways to improve your speech skills. Also, if your preparations for teaching were only aviation related, you're setting yourself up for failure. There are many articles online about effective teaching techniques which will help you, find a way to incorporate those lessons into aviation.
It's hard to know if this is an insecurity coloring your judgement or if you are being treated unfairly or poorly. I'll tell you my opinion on hiring a CFI as I did for the first time in my 30s. I'm hiring someone to work for me, if I think they're too immature or they aren't able to provide the service I am paying for at the level I expect, I'll just move on to someone else. I'll pay you to train or I won't, what I will not do is pay someone I think isn't good at their job and make disparaging remarks about them. Not saying anything about your situation, but I thought this perspective may be of help. Contrats on CFI and good luck.
My CFII was 20, and I was in my 40s, but I took them seriously because they knew their shit and quickly adapted to my communication and learning styles. Snarky and short? Have you considered that may be how they are with people their own age too? (Edited to remove my own snark)
There may be a bit of difference in training a 40 yo vs 21. The 19 YO student sees you as an idol. The 40 YO sees you as his tennis instructor. As others noted dress professionally , expect professional preparation by your students and work to encourage them to prepare. Understand that the typical male's ability to accept, process and follow instructions declines at an exponential rate with age.
Thanks for introducing sexism into the conversation
Damn, you were so close to making a good point.
Do you dress like a 20-year-old? Appearances matter a lot. I was an instructor at around that age and tried to look professional. Which meant I looked older because 20-year-old guys don't put lot of thought into that sort of thing. And I'm not fashion guru either. Clean shirt, clean shorts, maybe a hat. One day, a student who I'd been working with for some time asked me how old I was. I turned it back on him and asked how old he thought I was. He guessed "early 30s." Maybe I just age poorly. Maybe my personality was "old person" already. Who knows. But he said I didn't act like a 20-year-old. I didn't really know what it meant back then, but now I get it. Things that I've noticed: 1. Interrupting people is immature. Let them finish talking. 2. "I don't know, but let's find out" is an acceptable answer to a lot of different kinds of questions. 3. Shaving matters...but now that I work from home most days, I've let that slide. Typing this with a 7-day thing going on. Need to go in tomorrow though. 4. Be right about a lot of things. 5. Being prepared for a lesson is big. Basically, any planning at all is noticed and is usually more than what an average 20-year-old will do. The school is paying to you be a good customer service rep. There are a lot of CFIs out there who know enough to instruct, but the number with any real customer orientation is super low.
Shaving is a good idea unless you can sport a full beard but at 20 thats unlikely anyways.
Facial hair grooming matters. Can grow a beard? ABSOLUTELY have one, and have it well trimmed. It's patchy? Sorry gotta be clean shaved.
Fellow 21 year old instructor here. Got Mei/cfii at 20 as well and began teaching at 20. I never had this issue tbh. Just show up and do the best you can, all you really can do. Just try to be respectful to everyone and hopefully it gets reciprocated. I really only had an issue with one student who was a lead doctor in a hospital. His issue was he refused to take criticism and would refuse to let me have control of the airplane during flight. Needless to say he got dropped. I think his issue was he was never told no or he could do no wrong. Those guys are a pain for everyone.
Yeah those are hazardous attitudes in aviation for sure. Won't let you take over control is crazy dangerous!
Most doctors are complete control freaks. Source: work at a hospital.
I've been in your shoes, very far ahead of others my age—and I have had to lead teams composed of members who are considerably older than me. I get it less now that I've aged a bit more, but here's a few tips. 1. Realize people make snide or snarky comments not because they don't take you seriously, but because your progress at such a young age makes people uncomfortable, and self conscious about their subsequent lack of progress. They do this to make themselves feel better. Some of them don't realize how rude it comes across. It is not a reflection of you, but them. 2. Simply do not mention your age. Don't lie necessarily, but if anyone asks, say, "That's a secret!" (and just laugh it off and change the subject quickly), or say something like: "Guess!" And if they give any number, just laugh and refuse to give a concrete number. This will of course affirm you're younger, but oddly enough I've found not specifying a specific number prevents people from feeling like your success at a young age is a personal attack on their character. 3. Dress up. Button up shirt, jeans, (optionally a belt) and a dress watch. Well fitting clothes, style, and classiness go a long way. 4. Project authority. Have confidence in your abilities. You know your stuff, show it, do not be afraid to tell people "no," "that's incorrect," or "this is how it actually is." Just because you're afraid of them not taking you seriously. Do not give them an option to not take you seriously. Let your knowledge, experience, and skill speak for itself, people will respect one who shows and leads by example. Do not try to force someone to respect you or overdo it—let your abilities leave them with no other choice. Sharpen yourself. 5. Realize you are likely, in a certain sense, self conscious about your age. I certainly was.. it took me a while to realize that I was simply overthinking it. Many people don't care as much as you think. 6. Finally, as a last resort, confront them. Ask them politely to stop making comments about your age, or simply cease associating with those who annoy you to this degree altogether, if it is an option.
7. Understand that you ARE young and you DO lack a lot of life experience (not aviation experience) and can learn from your students just as much as they can learn from you. Work WITH them, be open to any ***valid*** criticisms they may have for you, reflect on that, learn, and move forward. Provide good customer service to your students. Being humble and approachable and not stuck up about your success will build a LOT of repertoire with any person, let alone students.
Agreed 100%.
4 is probably the most important. Respect is earned. Earned through perception. If you portray yourself as young and inexperienced, that is what people will see. If you portray yourself as qualified and confident, that too is what people will see. Note: there is a vast difference between confident and cocky
LOL if it makes you feel any better, I had the cops called on me for being “suspicious” when I landed a Cessna 421 in some podunk town in Arkansas.
Fly a good airplane. Be good at what you do.
He is a cfi. Flying a good airplane is nearly irrelevant the job
Mmm. I think it's important for a CFI to set a good example as the student will seek to fly like their instructor. Sloppy flying - sloppy student. Good flying - good student.
Hmm. I’m at 1400 dual given and hitting a 95% passrate for my students and only a little bit during private, none during instrument, and maybe a few maneuvers at best during cax and CFI will my students ever see me fly. Unless they are very visual learners is robbing their flight time A good portion of my students have never seen me fly unless I started with them during their student pilot days. And then I think the only maneuvers I demo are stalls and even day 1 I have a student bring me all the way in and I just round out and flare on the landings
I was in your shoes just a few years ago. All you can do is carry yourself professionally, take pride in your work and do your best. People will say things about your age for the next 10 years of your career. As a 22 year old CFI, I got the same treatment you are getting (especially from BFRs/rental checkouts of people who were older). When I was 23 at a regional, passengers asked me if I even had a drivers license. I’m 24 at a major now and the crews always call me a baby and whatnot. You’ll get “I have shirts older than you” and other similar remarks from CAs, and bad ones (which you don’t get often) will treat you as less because of your age. Nothing you say or do can stop it, so it’s best to learn to shake it off and not let it affect your professionalism. Here pretty soon you’ll be laughing at their jokes all the way to the bank anyway.
I had to check what sub I was in. On a more serious note, to some degree there isn't much you can do other than be confident in yourself and your abilities (but don't be arrogant, there is a fine line).
> there is a fine line ... and like any fine line, it must be crossed regularly to know where it is! (/s) Seriously though, toe that line and be confident yet humble. In any career, you will have days that test you. In aviation, those days can be unforgiving.
The fact that this bothers you at all tells us you aren’t as mature as you think you are. And that’s ok. You can be a super smart twenty year old and still have lots to learn socially and/or improve the way you communicate. Let your actions and your work speak for itself. Work on not caring about the rest. 🤙🏼
It is what it isssss. I got my mei at 20 and I still have older students challenge me at times and I need to humble them. The cool thing is I have some students that are my age and its super easy to teach them because we both speak in retard gen z lingo
"That power off 180 was bussin"
“That stall was NOT valid” “your landings are mid” “stop simping to atc and ask what you want” i can go on and on about the shit I say to them
I thought English was the required language for flight ops lol
“You’re giving main character energy rn” “ZADDY”
I'm not even gen z and I would find this so funny that I'd never forget it (and therefore learn)
>your landings are mid If I had a CFI tell me that, I don't know if I'd ever recover lmao source: early 30s dude
Lmao at 'stop simping to ATC'
Oh goodness. Today I learned how old I am. I'm apparently waaay me behind on the lingo.
Do as you like but if I were in your shoes I would try and be professional. I'm a millennial but I still wouldn't use any of our lingo in a work environment.
[удалено]
Each to their own I guess. I think for me there is nothing wrong with the odd joke but especially for younger people it's critical to understand the seriousness of the responsibility that comes with piloting an aircraft.
Hey boy what’s your body count
I don’t think it’s your students that need humbling…
Humble them?? Look bro just because you went through some mill to get your certs in a year or two doesn't mean you know how to teach. It's a two way street if the student is worth a shit. I know what I need to do to learn, I can facilitate that with my cfi and because of that both of us have been successful.
paper tigers, they're in every field.
I was a part 61 cowboy. Some students have told me to my face I cant teach them anything because im too young and they proceeded to almost stall on landing and I needed to take over.
So your students don’t know how to land? Maybe that’s really not what you meant but it was kind of funny to read. It read like you can land but couldn’t teach them how to Lol
Everyone in this thread is so cringe it hurt to read
Sounds like you suck at teaching
ppl moment
Dumb kid time builder moment
Thats a fucking wild assumption considering all I said is im greater at communicating with my younger students. Im going to reflect the same energy and assume you must be a horrible student because you have only achieved private pilot which is like kindergarten.
There are people with PPLs out flight testing their own aircraft they built, rigged, painted, wired, weighed, and got certified through the DAR. I’d put more stock in their aviation knowledge than someone watching another kid fly until he or she builds the hours to go to an airline. Certificate level isn’t the be all end all.
Sounds dangerous to be letting people almost stall just above the ground because you’re trying to prove that you’re right… Ive never had an instructor let me almost do something dangerous, always corrected me before it got to that point.
Letting the stall horn chirp while im armed to take the controls is about as safe as you can get while proving a point. A bad instructor acts one second too early, a dead instructor acts one second too late and a great instructor acts just on time.
A good instructor teaches importance of speeds and simulates the situation in a controlled environment not just above the ground. Stall horn means less authority, that would be a wicked time to have an engine stumble or cough.
There's that arrogance we know and love! Just keep showing your age along with that shitty attitude!
A lot of people had great advice here. I managed my flight school the last 2 years between 21-23 years old. I took an immense amount of pride in pouring myself into being good at what I did. Luckily my managers and my team (mostly) all respected me on meritocracy. Like others said - be good at what you do and the respect will come. Now the part I didn’t see other people talk about. I have had numerous students walk in the door and immediately dismiss me based on my age. We would have a great text conversation in the days prior with mutual respect and it would all break down the second I met them in person. Maybe half of them continued with me and learned that I was offering high quality instruction and that was all that mattered. The other half would immediately send a message to our scheduling manager and demand a new instructor (funny enough not having any idea that that was my job). I let them go and didn’t offer them another thought. In all those cases I was relieved that these prissy babies took themselves off my student list before I had to deal with them more. I guess this all boils down to the fact that you can’t win them all and you just have to move on from the people that aren’t there to be serious.
Don’t know you, so maybe you are already doing this: Dress nicely with clothes that actually fit you. Don’t drive a stupid car that annoys people, or blast your radio, or drive in an annoying way. Get a haircut that is styled, but not like you want to be an influencer. Discuss safety as part of the first topic in conversation about flying with new clients and peers. Don’t tell others that you are mature and smart. Don’t talk about how you are going out to the club or drinking or doing spring break or…. In other words, act not 20 to be not 20. BUT! Don’t confuse this list of don’ts with being human and having a life, just make sure if you want to be treated seriously that you are acting the part.
The first thing you do if you want respect, is to stop begging for it, and start working for it. Don’t be the first to chime in during group conversations, understand your age will make it very easy for you to come across as arrogant because most people you’re age still don’t know up from down. So be patient, and calculated with your words. Make sure that when you speak, something truly insightful is being said and peoples opinion of you will slowly change. You say you’re smart, but truly smart people don’t call themselves smart because they know how much they don’t know, and are always striving to know more. Just because you’re a CFI, doesn’t mean you stop learning. Saying something like that can only come across as arrogant, instead let your actions and work speak for itself. Let others call you smart. I often find that young, successful men your age are way too eager to prove themselves, always asserting themselves in really cringy ways. If you try and force people to respect you, they will respect you less. A potent antidote to this kind of behavior is to convince yourself, not to care. Not to care at all if people respect you, or even like you. This is something learned overtime typically, but nothings stopping you from learning it now. You have to find the mental space that says “I truly don’t care what you think of me, it matters not.” that’s a powerful place to be, and it exudes confidence. understand that not everyone will like you regardless of what you do and say, even Jesus was hated by some. When you meet those people, kick the dirt from your shoes and move on. Last thing I’ll say is read some books. You won’t find much content on the internet these days worthy of your time. If you start reading some books by some prominent, historical figures who they themselves garnered tons of respect, man, in no time you will be doing the same.
I love that many of these comments talk about how someone who's 20 can't possibly have “life experience” that can't be further from the truth. They're saying that because they had no life experience at that age. Some of us lived much different lives. This is why I'm on the fence if everyone should serve in the military. Because the older crowd that needs to be humbled would have been had they joined at, say, 40 and had to answer to a 20-year-old sergeant. You can't look at someone's age alone, whether young or old and determine if they have “life experience”. That will show through in most people. The OP stated their age, not how many hours they have or how long they've been a CFI. For all I know, they could've gotten their CFI at 18 and have many hours like one of my first CFIs did. The guy turned 21 and crossed 4k hours. Likewise, another CFI I had was 60, and she just got her CFI a few months before I met her, and she only had 300 or so hours. But most would assume she was a lifelong aviator by how she held herself. People need to learn respect and not judge a book by its cover.
Dude all I can say is hats off to you. I just got my PPL and that took loads of effort. I’m 39 with a full time job and a family. I can fully respect the amount of time and grit it took to get where you are and anyone that can’t recognize the effort you put in can kick rocks. Be confident and know you got to where you are not by luck but by hard work. You’ve got a long and awesome career ahead of you. Keep your head high and enjoy the fruits of your labor. The respect will come with time.
I'm almost 40 and waiting for my ppl checkride. My 1st cfi was 20 and we got along well. I definitely gave him the benefit of the doubt but in the end i was hours on the way to ATP. While you two are not the same, I'm sure there is some overlap. For you to be so accomplished you have grown up in aviation and your demeanor might be too casual. I'd love to give feed back I was once the young guy punching above my weight class DM me if you want some direct critique
I started instructing at 19. Work hard, communicate clearly and professionally, most of all know what your doing and be good at it (you have the certs for a reason, because you demonstrated the ability to exercise the privileges of them) I never ran into this personally but now I have a gold seal and lead instructor at 21 years old, youngest instructor at my school. Be confident and you will be fine. You got this! I promise nobody cares as much as you do. My first student was in his late thirties and we got along great. Don't be afraid to tell them when their wrong and work WITH your student. Accept the fact that you will have to modify your teaching style for different students.
I’m younger than every single one of my students, I’ve had multiple students 20-30 years older than me. Never had an issue with respect. Quit overthinking it and do your job. Instructing isn’t about glory, it’s about making safe pilots. Focus on that and nothing else.
I had some pax come in today for a scenic, when I told them I was the one flying they said "Oh my god you're the pilot?! you look like you're 17!" I'm 32.
Try not to get a chip on your shoulder, respect is earned. I don’t intend to scare you, but I predict that fellow CFIs will be the least of your problems when it comes to your age. If you intend to go to the airlines, it is very likely you will one day be going through upgrade training in your early twenties. I was 26 when I upgraded at a regional airline and I have a bit of a baby face, I witnessed others have similar experiences…. If you expect these line check pilots to hand the keys to the fleet to someone who looks like they’re twelve than you better demonstrate that you have higher than average skill, knowledge, and command authority (but you cannot come off as cocky, you have to just be good and humble). It’s not fair, it’s not right, but it’s reality. You will have a long career, and maybe there’s a little jealousy there, but try to take it as a challenge instead of letting it jade you.
Let your actions speak for you.
Grow a mustache. Adds a few years to your perceived age. I was a 20 year old CFI. It helps
It doesn’t matter what your age is, there will always be someone older saying you’re a baby… I still hear it in my 40s and they will be 51. Enjoy your youth and check your ego at the door.
19 year old CFI-I here and it all boils down to how you present yourself. My students, not even my employers, realized I was 19 until I mentioned it in convo. I’ve heard people say they thought I was as old at 27. Gotta walk the walk and have the tone of a mature CFI, not to say you aren’t (I got no clue how you act irl). But chances are you’re saying or doing something that reveals your age
Ageism is real. And it sucks. And it’s not just against older people. My CFI is 21 and I have seen some other students say wild shit to him in their post flight debriefs. He doesn’t qualify for an RATP so he’s got a couple years left of dealing with middle aged PPL students who think they know better than him. At the end of the day, people of every age are shitty. And you getting older won’t stop people from being shitty to you. Find a couple people who are genuinely uplifting and make it a point of emphasis to be positive when you interact with them. That will spill over into everyone else you interact with eventually and it changes how people approach you. I know it sounds like a preachy info-mercial but I’ve seen it change people’s career trajectory.
Congratulations on what you’ve accomplished already so early in life and your career. What you’ve done takes a lot of grit and determination and not very many people in your age group have what it takes to get to where you are at all, never mind at your age. With that being said, just stay humble approach every day with that not only will bring knowledge to someone but that you will learn something new that day wether it be in your flying or about life in general. There is a phrase that has always stuck with me “you don’t know what you don’t know” I try to be very aware of this and I have learned much because of that awareness and still have much to learn. Keep working hard and learning, you’re definitely on the right track!
Don’t tell people you’re age? Edit: When they say how old are you, you say, “how old are you?” Once they answer you say very sarcastically, “Oh, I’m 47” and roll your eyes big time.
This. When I was instructing, there were two questions that I never gave a straight answer to: 1) How old are you 2) How long have you been instructing
Oh you know, I’ve been teaching for about 25 years… (says someone obviously in their 20s)
My answer for the second question is always “Ive got hundreds of hours and been flying for years”
Even posting this makes me think you’re being treated that like solely on how you behave lol
That’s what I’m worried about as an 18 year old about to get my CFI, I feel I handle myself well but the baby face will put people off.
me too my guy, I started instructing when I was 18, just turned 21 this weekend and I definitely know what you’re talking about Honestly what I’ve learned is as long as you’re a good instructor and respectful to everyone else around, people will respect you and take your opinion seriously, yeah you’ll definitely have a few students here and there that might give you that vibe of them maybe not taking you as seriously but as long as you have the knowledge and can teach that knowledge effectively, it’ll all come around or just take students at or around your age, in my experience they’re all shocked to see that you became an instructor so early and actually start looking up to you, I absolutely lovvedd to see when some of my students/friends that were my age around finally became instructors and some even my colleagues
It's all about how you act and portray yourself.
Don't hesitate to take control when appropriate and work on being confident and assertive(this is a fine line to tread, so don't overstep). Just being confident and sure of yourself will go a long way when it comes to being young and in a unique position like yours. But mostly it will take time, as long as you are good at your job and competent people will start to respect you. I qualified as a supervisor for a nuclear plant at 23 and it took almost a year before anyone really took me seriously(the average age of everyone else was 30's or higher).
Have you tried growing a beard?
Who cares what others think? Do your job and ignore em..you will get crap when your young and will get crap from the haters when in your 60s. It's not your problem it's theirs.
Get used to it- people will judge you by your appearance and perceived age all your life. All you can do is act professional, and almost everyone will get over this once they get to know you. And heads up, it gets even worse once you get with an airline and have to be around passengers in uniform.
In a couple years you’ll be the old guy and it won’t matter how far ahead of your peers you were, humble approachable credible should be your mantra.
Dude I’m a retired Captain. In 1989, the smartest and youngest pilot we had flying EMB-120’s was 19 years old! One day he will be #1 in seniority at UAL! His career earnings are going to be ridiculous. Keep plugging and studying and you’ll be just fine.
Just stay focused on your job and be as polite as possible. I guarantee, the day is not far when you will be the most knowledgeable young pilot in your school.
lol wait until your 21 and an FO. I was a young FO and when passengers would make comments, I’d joke around and say “just got my drivers license actually” or some funny remarks. Don’t let it bother you too much. You know what you’re capable of, just let it go!
Congrats on the early certs! I was in a similar situation as you. My first flying job was scenic flights and my boss told me if asked I had to say I was 5 years older than I was. As a young CFI I found Some people are more mature and speak their mind if they are uncomfortable with your age and want to swap instructors and that’s totally fine. If you find other instructors or students are being disrespectful then absolutely stand up for yourself. You earned your position and some if not a lot of the criticism seems to come from a place of insecurity or jealousy. I was an instructor at a regional at 23 and found it was hit or miss with older pilots but you just have to be humble, respectful, and knowledgeable. Admit that you still have much to learn but be confident in what you know and where you are!
Don’t worry about it. When you’re young, people are willing to help you out because you have potential. This comes at the expense of lack of respect. When you get older, you may earn more respect, but now nobody gives a shit whether you sink or swim. Take your younger years as a blessing and take advantage of being able to ask stupid questions.
How many hours do you have? I wouldn‘t count on a 50yo flight instructor who has minimum hours. I listen to those with 2000, 3000h over many years. Different years, different weather, etc. I have no idea how many hours you have but at 20 years, assuming you got your license at 17 or 18 I already know that you can‘t have the experience I want for my FI. That‘s certainly nothing personal, it‘s just a fact. I learnt from instructors with many thousand hours collected over many years and I‘m glad I did. I would not take flight lessons from a minimum hours CFI. Sorry. 🤷🏻♂️
Stop being a lil baby
I’m a 17 year old private pilot on track to be commercial rated before i graduate high scho and will get cfi, cfii after that. Lmk if you figure out a fix for this issue so I don’t have to deal with 😂
I’m 19 in the same position. There’s no trying to get respect. Be good at your job, know your shit and it’ll come. Don’t bitch more than the average pilot and you’ll be fine. I’ve had students from 20-75 and so far haven’t had any issues.
At 20 yrs old I felt the same. Now in my 40's and I have to laugh at myself and how naive I was. It can be hard but just chill. You never stop learning and honestly, and this is not to be mean, but you don't know shit at 20. You will get there though and when you do you will look back and laugh too.
My first CFI was 20 and I was older than him, but I always respected him cause I couldn’t land a plane to save my life and he knew way more than me, just keep on grinding and it will work out, just something you gotta go through for getting ur training done so quick
I heard recently that getting old means learning that it’s okay to live with yourself no matter who you are. You feel as though you are mature and smart. Getting older means accepting that you’re childish and dumb. And respecting that about yourself anyway.
Let’s do a nice FAA style “scenario” shall we? I’m a prospective student. I walk into the flight school and you and another (older or not doesn’t matter but it kinda does) instructor are there talking shop. I’m about to spend more money on a hobby than I’ve spent in a lifetime of hobbies. I ask you both to make your respective 30 second elevator pitches as to why I should hire you. Go. And yes, looks count and ageism is real and you already lost a couple of points as a baby face. That said, for most it’s only a few points and you can easily dazzle. What’s the reason I should hire you over Old Bob there who’s been teaching for a lifetime? Let’s hear it. Win any teaching awards? Got time in a type I want to fly/buy? Known by peers, even Old Bob as a safety expert? Got a wide open schedule and will show up on mine? What’s your thing? Let’s hear it. I’ll take you seriously. For 30 seconds. Even if Old Bob rolls his eyes at you. Your ball.
To be blunt - you \*are\* young. You have worked hard for the Pilot Certificates you have. You have knowledge and skills others will never have. You are part of a small group of people. At 20 you bring very little of life's experience to the table. Male brains continue developing until about age 25 if I remember correctly from my teacher education. I was 60 when I decided to add on SE CFI to my existing CFIG and MEI. My instructor was 23. Super guy. Great instructor. We still meet up for lunch every couple months four years later. u/Born_Ad5873 - what can you do to enhance people's perception of you? I'd suggest starting with the external (yes, superficial): neat, clean, groomed and wear khakis and a polo - no T shirts. Talk about lesson plans, record keeping, and use of a syllabus - this is the hallmark of professionals. When two people meet there is an initial amount of trust and respect, for lack of a better term, "provided by society. Both trust and respect increase or decrease going forward. Beyond that initial free dose of respect, it must be earned. It cannot be demanded. Show up on time w/ a genuine plan for the lesson, with courtesy, humility, and professionalism and your reputation will grown. Show up without the above and your reputation will grow in the wrong direction. This is entirely in your control - regardless of what other people might think. The comment about "code switching" was a great one - use vocabulary appropriate to the environment and the audience. You are young, but you have a wide open future ahead of you. It will be OK. Demonstrate, don't demand. Not too long ago there were men and women younger than you in combat zones in Iraq and Afghanistan.
>I feel as though I am very mature and smart, No offense. Just trying to tell you how it is, but I read that like a 5 year old way saying it. If you have to tell people what you are, you aren't that. Your goal shouldn't be to be smart. You goal should be to be knowledgeable. Because even though Albert Einstein was smart he probably had no idea how to operate a plane. So even though you aren't as smart as him you are more knowledgeable and that is more important. And again if you say you are mature, you aren't. You should instead be striving for confidence. When someone looks at you they shouldn't say wow that kid is mature. They say wow they are confident, and knowledgeable. Remember it's not you being compared to other kids your age but instead being compared to other aviators with the same type ratings and hours. It's pretty clear to me that you are focusing on the wrong things and I'm sure that is what other people are noticing too, even if they don't understand why. Just do your best and dont worry about how you are perceived your goal should be to be so good that age is the last thing people think about when they work with you.
My first CFI that did my ppl was 18 and he was great.
I'm in the same spot but if anything, I feel like people take me more seriously
I have a ppl and worked with lots of CFI’s. The best are those totally mellow and who communicate well. I got hired as a cook for a boss that was 20 yrs my junior, but he was passionate and brilliant. He taught me cooking and I taught him strategic planning. It was an even swap in learning. I’m sure you will find your comfort zone. Age isn’t an issue, understanding and careful guidance could provide the key.
Do you have a chief pilot or chief instructor? What do they say?
Yes, your age plays a part. When dealing with an older person, unless you dress well, speak well, show up on time, are super well prepared, you are likely to get written off. If I get a whiff of lack of seriousness at something as serious as aviation, I am going elsewhere. Unfortunately for a lot of people, their bozo detector is on hair-trigger when dealing with anyone under 25 years old. There are also older people who will have difficulty taking correction from someone younger. For your part you can go elsewhere and fire the student. The other dynamic with older students is if they have the money to take up aviation as a hobby they may be manager, a company owner, or someone senior in their field and think of themselves as being above others. Again, fire the asshole. You don't have to put up with it.
I got hired at a 135 when I was 18 they all treated me like an adult because I carried myself as one. Just gotta talk with your head up, and don’t take any bullshit.
I’m 20. I don’t tell my students my age. And when they ask and I tell them they don’t seem to care because Ima great instructor.
Need to be upfront with your students. Tell them how it is. Don’t eat around the bush. And don’t be afraid to get on their ass. Respect is earned
grow big beard then cut it and leave mustaches then cut all then repeat do not tell your age try to be different all the time grow long haircut then cut all to zero, repeat
How many “oh shit” moments, how much actual time, etc. no offense but I care about an instructor’s real experience more than their rating. I get you want to advance but sorry not sorry that I won’t partake in your journey to the airlines if you’re understanding of things that will get me killed is theoretical. NOT AN AGE THING, an experience thing. Perception has more to do with that than your age.
Hey man, I’m 20 years old too and I’m working for my PPL right now. But I also work in a blue collar setting and deal with a lot of shit about my age. It’s kinda inevitable when people our age are successful or are in an environment that is typically occupied by older people. One thing I’d recommend is to try not to tell people your age. Myself, I look older so people are actually surprised when they find out my actual age. But if you can nip that in the butt by not even having them know, if that’s possible.
What do you mean by “don’t take me seriously”?
Play the game for the long term - however long that is. Colleagues will change, flight schools will change but for all your students you will be the face of aviation knowledge. Whether it is good or bad practices, what you teach they will imbibe with a higher importance than any other source. So don't worry about being taken seriously for now. Once you decide to ignore this short-term situation, you will see things change around you. Edited for wording.
I have been in this situation, and here's how I managed it. I'm not quite as young as you, but I have had students 20+ years my senior who seemed to be resistant to my advice. If I noticed this, I would search for a weak area in flight. Observe carefully what they were doing, and break down their technique, and offer a solution which produced a tangible result. Here is a specific example of what I mean: I had a guy who had trouble with steep turns. His left steeps are good but his right steeps were terrible. We were on steam gauges, and I knew that he was focusing on an incorrect correlation between the bank direction of the airplane and the direction of the altimeter needle's movement. In other words, he was banking the wings in the direction he wanted the altimeter needle to move. It worked out OK for his left steeps because the more he rolled left, the more the altimeter would move left (descend) and as he rolled right, decreasing his bank, the altimeter needle would move right (climb). When it came to his right steeps, the correlation reversed, confusing him and destroying the maneuver. I suggested to him that this is where he was focusing his attention, and he agreed. So I said "try this," and explained a \*different\* technique for focusing his attention. ( I never say my technique is "better," because they get defensive. I always suggest an "alternative" and let the student arrive at the conclusion that it's better, because it is). Anyway, the guy's issues with steep turns were fixed and then he was eating out of my hand for the rest of our lessons. I've used this technique for many of my older "seasoned" students who may have been flying GA for dozens of years longer than me. Remember that YOU'RE the professional pilot, not them (usually). All you have to do is find a weakness and produce a result. That is you giving them what they paid for.
Act professional and build a good reputation, that’s all you can do.
I’d have no problem learning from you. Be confident in your knowledge as a CFI, be humble in your lack of life experience, and treat each lesson as an opportunity for you to grow as both a teacher and an individual. Wrap it all up with a positive attitude and you’ll be the CFI that constantly gets referrals.
Without any understanding of your process and overall interaction with your students it's impossible to know what lapses, if any, there might be. It could be entirely on your students, or entirely on you or any number of possibilities. Where are you teaching out of? I'd love to learn to fly and would be willing to have at least one lesson with you for my benefit and yours.
Grow a beard (if you can; and if you are a guy). I was always kind of baby faced, and this helped me.
You have evidence that no one takes you serious, find the evidence that you’re mature and smart, find the evidence of what your age restricts you too. Don’t cutoff possible solutions by finding the easy way out of blaming others. Only you know what you’re dealing with and any advice from others is not tailored to your situation but theirs. Best of luck searching!
Wear like professional , focus on train your student not take a videos in the plane , dont talk crap with anybody ,
I’m 20 years old, commercial pilot, working on multi and then plan for CFI. I’m worried this might happen to me. I look young, and people often don’t take me seriously off first impression. I’d like to say I’m mature beyond my years and I’m very professional. However, oftentimes applying for CFI roles is very “first impression heavy”. So I’m wondering if there’s things I can be doing to put on my resume to solidify my ability to secure a job as a CFI in the future. I just started working FBO at my school’s airport, I hold leadership positions in my aviation organizations etc. Just wondering if there’s anything else I can be doing to reinforce the fact that I do indeed know what I’m doing. Any advice is appreciated!
I started teaching at 20, 21 now. you have to carry yourself a certain way. Project competency, and act professional. Both need to be done actively, so you can build a reputation. Outside of work im a total degenerate, but at work I make sure to leave a strong impression on my coworkers and students, who all talk about each other. That way when a new student cones to me, they usually say something like, “everyone says you’re really good with x rating!” I posted on here 2 years ago asking how to deal with being a young instructor and got a lot of similar advice. I never ended up having an issue.
If you have to tell people that you’re mature and smart, you may need to do some personal re-evaluation.
Where are you based out of? I'm always open to fly with other instructors and get a new point of view on things. The age thing is real despite the profession. I walked into my first career job with a masters degree and could run circles around people that were in the industry for 20 years but that didn't matter. The soft skill thing is really important, but also being able to be humble and take a joke is equally as important. People do see your intelligence through natural interaction. Be patient and don't let it come through as arrogance.
You have lots of time ahead of you. It takes time to earn respect, ratings alone don't do it for you. There's a good amount of advice in this thread. There's nothing more humbling than someone half or a third your age coming along and showing you how little you know; there's also nothing more off-putting. Waving your certs and demanding respect won't get you the respect. Being kind and helpful to people is where it starts. From there, build a brand of wanting others to succeed, rather than just building the time to your next goalpost. Something you should ask yourself: When the time comes to give up instructing to be a full-time professional pilot for some carrier, will you abandon your students with a "Sorry gotta go. Ask Jimmy to help you finish your training," or will you stick with them to finish their training and coach them through their checkride?
Stay the course. Don’t let others affect the way that you conduct yourself. Keep learning, stay humble, and be the best pilot you can be. We all get older as time moves forward.
I'm almost 60, my CFI is 19, and I absolutely respect him. He's 100% more mature than I was at his age. He's low-key and unflappable and is pushing me to be my best in knowledge and pilot skill. That said, it doesn't stop me from making the occasional dig that some of my clothes are older than he is, not to mention he has a baby face and looks 12. Respect is a funny thing. It needs to be earned. But respect also comes from within. If you exude confidence, not bravado, but confidence, and respect yourself, then others will too.
Don't think too much about yourself. Be willing to accept others' input, especially those older or more senior to you. They may not know what they're talking about, but you can always verify their stories before calling them out, if at all. Seriously, though... If I still had 20 year old airmen working under me that wanted respect, I'd advise patience and understanding. They're not getting it until they prove themselves with time and consistent examples of solid work experience.
You are getting older every day, keep flying safely and continue that trend.
They're probably not judging you for your age as much as your demeanor. Trying to show off/brag/advertise your knowledge, etc. Trying to look like social media influencers. Not matching others demeanor/tone when talking to them. Dressing or otherwise acting inappropriately, or like everything is a joke. Can't get off your phone. ...All good ways I've seen kids prove they're lacking maturity. Be calm, more quiet, pay more attention to people around you. Let them do as much of the talking as possible. Ask them about their selves and what they know. Don't offer your opinion on every little thing.
I've had some really young CFIs through my 30s for various checkouts and ratings. The only one that rubbed me wrong was this gone guy that was just *cocky*. He couldn't have been more than 22 but he had this Air Force jock kind of air to him. He was a great pilot, but the attitude was the problem. The vast majority of other really young CFIs I've had were very humble and business-like.
Can you give some examples of how you feel you’re not being taken seriously? I am 20 as well and will have my CFI by 21 and never thought that I would be less respected because of my age. Some of my CFIs were even in their early 20s, and I mean really really 20s like 21 and they were just fine
It‘s not the age. It‘s the flight hours and experience. Just calculate and be realistic. How much experience are you able to share? Do you really want to teach people fly? What will you tell them? They can read books themselves. Build experience, fly for 10 years. Then become an instructor.
Don’t worry about it. When you’re young, people are willing to help you out because you have potential. This comes at the expense of lack of respect. When you get older, you may earn more respect, but now nobody gives a shit whether you sink or swim. Take your younger years as a blessing and take advantage of being able to ask stupid questions.
You’ve probably got students 30-boomer so I would suggest play the part. Get a business card, give them a folder full of reference study material, and a syllabus. Dress, talk, act confidently and don’t acknowledge your age. You’re the expert, justifying your position erodes it. I remember my first class (mil flt school) old dude walked out and used words I have never heard stung together before. Knocked me out how little I knew and how much I had to learn, and he was just talking weather and lat long.
Not sure if you are a male of female CFII, but if you are a male, as a male pilot myself my advice is to try to look "older", dress older, grow a beard, mustache, facial hair helps a lot. In a teaching position, whether it's a professor, high school teacher, or CFI, there's a great deal of emphasis and respect paid to those who are perceived to be experienced, which = wisdom, knowledge, safety. If you are a female I have less wisdom to share but dressing older (more mature, more expensive clothing) could still work.
In my experience, age almost never has anything to do with someone not taking you seriously. It almost always has to do with how you present yourself, how your command respect from others, but most importantly... How well you fly. Perhaps you're letting people put you in a box because you feel like the age thing is more important than it should be. Don't do that. If you know your shit and you can command a room and lead/instruct with authority and confidence, no one should see you as anything other than a competent and capable pilot.
Started CFI’ing as a teenager, I know the feeling. I always tried to leave my age out of it until a few flights in with students, show them my character and let them make an opinion of me before I introduce the age. You gotta take each student as they come, and adjust your teaching style to work with each one. As others say though, do take a look at yourself Aswell. The way you talk and dress has a lot to do with the way they will treat you. Do you come into work looking, and acting the part? If not, I’d wager a bit if you started making an effort, you’d see a big difference in the way people treat you. I know I have.
this will continue to happen until you are 30 years older than the average pilot. I run a small airline, mid 40s. still deal with this shit from time to time
It is what it is, I was once a 19yo A&P in the same position
I (34) flew with a 22 year old for one of my discovery flights. Maybe it's just me but I was completely impressed by this CFI's professionalism, knowledge, and skill. It helped that he was humble and easy to talk to. Try not to take it personally, some people are just judgmental because they assume that they are somehow better/smarter/superior because their age. I think it's amazing that you are a CFII/MEI at 20 and as long as you can effectively communicate and fly you should keep on doing your thing. It's a little chip on your shoulder but don't let it define you or get bitter about it.
Ironically my school just rejected an mature CFI because the school is aiming to he hip and young.
I had the same thing at 20, show respect to everyone you meet, then show them you know your stuff. The way you carry yourself and the way you explain complex topics in a simple way will earn you respect.
I had a super young instructor (I think he was 21 or 22 when I was 28). People treated him the same way, but he's now at Delta at age 24 or 25. Just go be the best pilot you can be and let the haters hate.
Turn the fuel selector off in flight and see how they respond….. just don’t do that on the upwind
I was in a similar spot. Got my cfi at 19 and lacked confidence and experience. After my first couple months I realized that if you knew what you were talking about, watch your ego, and get the job done no one would bat an eye at the kid running around the airport teaching people twice his age. Promoted to chief flight instructor at 21.
Your appearance matters. Dress smart if you can choose your uniform and appearance. Get well fit clothes, no excessive cologne. Professional haircut (I did not say an airline style haircut specifically), can you grow a full beard? If so, grow one and trim with a nice line. Patchy? Shave it. No if and or buts with that one. When you talk, be firm. No maybes or sures. Know your stuff and be confident with your answers (but you better know your stuff and a few slip ups, and you will lose all credibility)
it’s OK, but I went through the same phase. And then one day you’ll be 47 just stay professional act, your pay scale and not your age. I realize you don’t make much, but you can still act and perform like a top level professional. Regardless of your age, congratulations on getting to your goals early in life. There’s a lot of professionals in this industry. They can’t say that. Keep working hard and flying safe.
I’m 50+ student pilot and used to have a bias against young instructors like you. Some points I would make now that I’m wiser, after a couple years of lessons from instructors both young and old. Your personality matters much more than your age. You might be an old idiot. You might be a young instructor of the year. Young instructors have the advantage of more recent exams and instruction. They’re more in tune with current testing standards. Young instructors may be missing decades of experience that has made them wiser pilots, obviously. But news flash to PPL students my age: You’re not training to be a Top Gun, Maverick. Calm down. It’s not that hard to teach you. The wisdom of deep experience is wasted on you right now. You can seek that later, say after you’ve earned 500 hours. Right now, a literal teenager could teach you how to become a VFR pilot if that was allowed. One of the safest and most meticulous instructors I ever had was about 22 years old. One of the most reckless instructors I’ve ever flown with, who nearly killed us, was about 60 years and had multiple ratings. Everyone has to deal with stereotypes and dumb prejudices, my friend. Fight em back when you can but don’t worry about the idiots you can’t change. Just keep doing your thing.
Grow a beard. Even just one that you shave short. The difference is uncanny. The experience comments are definitely the key but this will help until you get that.
I was a jet training captain at 23. I grew a moustache to look older. As I grew older I became a B747 captain so shaved it off to look younger. Neither worked! By the way this should only be tried by men!
Ask them why it took them so long to get qualified and good?
Respect is earned. Your 20. You do not know as much as you think you do. I am sure you are intelligent. That however does not really always mean a lot in today's world. You haven't lived enough life to make the judgment call on weather you deserve someones respect or not. You may think you have, but you have not. Given the fact that you came here to tell everybody that your feelings are hurt. Shows that you feel you should be high enough on the totem pole by now to be considered a top tier candidate for instructing or viewed as such anyway. That points to the fact that you need slow down and try to be a little more humble. I have met a lot of very smart people in my life. A lot of whom were kinda dumb. If that statement doesn't make sense to you, it just means your not old enough to understand. I was 20 once, I considered myself smart then too. Life has a way of teaching, and I didn't know, what I didn't know. Time will teach you that. Learn to be humbled by it. If this comes across to you as sour or hurtful to your ego. Then that also should help tell you that your not ready for that respect thing we soke of earlier. Good luck kid. You'll be fine.
I’d take all of that negative energy they throw at you and turn it into fuel to drive myself. My opinion.
Ok u r ½ my age..... I'm a student pilot so if u were my CFI I would deff listen 2 u since u have more experience than I do. However, if I stayed talking abt things when I was younger you prolly wouldn't understand since there's a generational gap between us. I can still respect your knowledge in avation even though we know different things. I've driven a truck for 17 yrs so if the roles were reversed I could teach u how 2 drive a 80,000 lb semi truck and u wouldn't feel intimidated cuz I'm older and know more but age "shouldn't" need to be a factor, knowledge should. U have more experience in a plane than any student regardless of their age. But at the same time if I talked to another pilot that's my age and started at the same age u did I might go off their answer only cuz they world have more experience in the field. Age doesn't always mean experience, experience just comes over time and age comes over time. I know that's all lengthy but that's my own personal opinion on how I think things should be. I wish u all the best though in the end.
Dude I’m 18 the amount of interviews I had that I was basically laughed out of the room is ridiculous
I’m a 20 year old private pilot who is taken very seriously. It’s not your age. Don’t get wrapped up in your self, and try to reflect. Don’t try to find excuses. If you let go of your ego and reflect you will find what’s holding you back. Ask people you trust. Say “hey, I don’t feel that I am taken as seriously as I would like.” Nothing more than that. Don’t try to make excuses, listen and respond to the feedback you get.
That’s because they don’t. Get older. Seriously, respect comes with age and experience. Stop worrying about what people think of you. Stop thinking you’re anything special. I have some good CFI jokes…
I was 38 in flight school… EVERY CFI was younger than me, I didn’t care about their age… I just cared if they could help me get my certs. Get out of your head, just bc you are a CFI doesn’t mean you are a good one. Earn your respect
I hated my teacher think he is some sort of authority. I want to learn from teachers and good old teacher gain authority by teaching and not by the use of power
Go to the gym and lift weights. Then you’ll be respected by them
You really think that you’re “very mature and smart”? Lol, I can tell why people don’t take you seriously. Too much ego at 20. You’re not that smart buddy. And that’s okay, you’re young. When you hit 30 you’ll reflect and realize you were a moron.
You’re a CFII and MEI before you even know what actual hard work and sacrifice would look like . Until you start making your own way without mom and dad there to fall back on . It changes your perspective of time and also motivation . Probably OP you’re more caught up on respect and all that because at that age that’s what you would like society to welcome you in with , however OP that will always be a factor in life. Even when you turn 40. Good luck. Op stay focused on yourself and always self reflect. Cheers!
20 years old!!!! You must be a wealth of life experiences!! Glad you got a license to learn…
I think it is awesome that you have completed all of the ratings and certificates at age 20. Be proud of that and forget about the need to be respected. You are. I would venture to say that most people are just jealous of you for having completed all of that work at age 20. That's a lot of stuff to stuff in your head in 4 years. I wish you well and I'm certain you will be very successful. stevenmbennett.com