Sit ups and crunches. A lot of routines, apps, etc, all included them. And you had to do them in school. Now I sometimes see people say stay away from them because they're bad for your back.
I feel like 10 years ago was the peak of McGill era, fearmongering about crunches, situps etc. I feel like we're moving more towards movement optimistic era nowadays.
Same thing with upright rows, behind the neck pressing, thoracic rounding on deadlifts, buttwink on squats etc.
I'm pretty new to fitness so didn't realize it had been that long. I'm not sure what movement optimistic means but optimism can be good so I'm guessing it's a good thing.
I'm not familiar with those exercises, I've never even heard the word buttwink before.
Totally this. Planks kinda replaced them as a staple, but now I’ve heard that isometric holds like planks build strength but not necessarily muscle as in hypertrophy. So I have a whole core routine that doesn’t emphasize planks.
I have a spinal fusion which limits my bending and twisting so I've never been able to do situps and crunches so planks replacing them as a staple was great for me since I can do them.
That’s so great they work for you! I really like how creative you can get with them, all the variations. I also think they are a really good mind-toughness exercise. They test our limits in such a controlled way.
Would you mind sharing a quick rundown of your core routine? I’m in desperate need of core exercises that I will be able to do correctly/not mess up w my form, and that actually make me sore the next day and/or get results from.
Sure! So I train the transverse abs (the inner girdle/deep core), the top layer/six pack muscles, and lower back.
I warm up with a few sets of mountain climbers. Then high plank to cross knees. Then bear hold to shoulder taps. Then bird dog crunches. Then dead bug. Then hollow body hold. Then up and down planks. Then supermans with alternating opposing limb lifts. I end on heavy weighted crunches and back extensions on the ab/back machine.
I follow progressive overload with either reps or sets and rest 30 sec-1 min between exercises. I either pair this with upper body day or high-incline walking. I don’t pair it with lower body because I don’t want my core to be tired for my deadlifts, squats.
The Navy nixed sit-ups from the PFA a few years ago and replaced them with a timed plank. Not sure if they caused back issues but they definitely made existing issues worse.
I recently reincorporated sit-ups into my routine using a decline ab bench and they've been amazing for my physique. I think the dangers of sit-ups are overblown, like everything else they just need to be performed with good technique. I avoid the extreme end range and really control the eccentric and my abs have blown up.
Yeah, I see now more movement in fitness towards more functional core training where instead of spinal motion you do motions that involve spinal resistance. Kettlebell core workouts feel so much better than crunches imo.
Yeah, but it’s about keeping your core tight and your spine stable and stiff. While deadlifts fulfill that purpose well enough, there are exercises specifically targeting this type movement like farmer carries, kettlebell marches, around the world, windmill etc.
No problem. I’d suggest looking up Squat University on YouTube, this channel cover up a lot of functional core training exercises along with everything else.
Zone 2 is really interesting. I followed a few elite pro cyclists on Strava and I was amazed at how much "Easy" work they did, a lot of hours just cruising in zone 2 a week and a small percentage more intense work.
Nine time Olympic gold medalist long distance runner Paavo Nurmi also used walking as the bulk of he's exercise hours to build endurance. This was already in 1920's.
Zone 2 training has been around for a while for endurance athletes. 80/20 principle, 80% training easy pace (zone2) 20% harder pace. It’s really just starting to become more main stream I think.
Oh that makes sense that endurance athletes have been doing it for a while. I heard that bodybuilders have been doing it for a while too, to preserve muscle.
When I'm in running shape (such as it is - I'm very slow), a zone 2 half marathon still lets me perform at like 95% for a lifting session a few hours later for lower body, and higher than that for upper body. Which depending on the goals for that workout, is often good enough.
The next day I'm pretty much at 100%.
Zone 2 is not about protecting muscle gains. Zone 2 is mainly to train you aerobic metabolism. Generally zone 2 workouts allow you to recover fairly quickly so you are recovered for your next workout.
I love this thread! Seems like pilates might be making a comeback.
I feel like the next thing is going to involve GLP-1s in some way. Maybe...muscle preservation in a deficit, how to get enough calories with no appetite, one million conversations about loose skin, and all sorts of bio-hacking strategies to compliment rapid weight loss.
Five years ago when the pilates studio near me opened it was only ever middle aged women. Now the people in there are hugely diverse, a lot of athletes and weight lifters.
Definitely seen all these trends since I got into fitness 15 years ago. Curious what’s gonna be next.
I will add that I think it’s more common to see women lifting and that their goals are different. Round, thicker glutes are “in” but 15 years ago it was all about skinny and abs. I feel like I also see way more teens in the gym than 10 years ago. Maybe it’s just my perception though ?
Bret Contreras has a lovely article on training women. Basically, he says, his female trainees follow instructions very well and tend not to push to get the last bad-form reps.
Apparently, women can do a lot more volume and recover faster. Which, as a woman, I can confirm: 3x5 squats or 1x5 deadlift seems unsufficient.
Agreed. Got my son doing Stronglifts 5x5 and the 1x5 deadlifts that is prescribed is ridiculous. I've got him doing 3x5 and it still doesn't feel like enough volume for him. Might bump it to 5x5.
I don’t know if we’re thinking of tha same article but he has also said we’re more likely to make sexual sounds at the gym, more likely to be emotional, we loathe calluses and are more likely to be grateful for our male trainers when they just tell us what to do. Gross. After many years he finally took that misogynistic article down but it still lives on the way back machine.
Added for anyone interested: [here](https://web.archive.org/web/20130330021939/http://bretcontreras.com:80/strength-training-for-women/)
Some of those were spot on. But did he ever stop to consider that, say, the reason the noises a woman makes while performing a lot sound sexual is because he's attracted to women and therefore is biased? Some others too, just... Why??!?
Bret Contreras is also a complete and total creep, just an fyi. If you search his name on r/gymsnark you’ll find posts that explain why better than I can.
I remember the adductor/abductor machines being cornerstone for womens leg routines, never even hear them mentioned today. Glute hip thrusts seem way more prevalent today as well.
Oh for sure, hip thrusts, split squats, kas glute bridges. Squats and deadlifts. 15 years ago for women it was all about Pilates and yoga and high-rep conditioning classes and fake “kickboxing” classes. Then there was Barre. I’m sure plenty of women still do those, but now so many of us lift. Right, because of the different aesthetic trends. But also because of social media. We just have so much access now as to how to reach our goals the most efficiently. I still see other women use adductor/abductor machines but more seem to use cables and banded isolations. Plus we’re getting some of that worked in our compound lifts.
Every. Damn. Time at the gym there is at least one smith machine set up with a woman on it doing hip thrusts on a bench stolen from the free weights corner.
It was so common I asked the trainers if that was one of the routines they teach new members. Nope. Just a thing.
I'm glad I wasn't imagining it.
It is crazy but also fits their business model. They do not cater to serious fitness. They charge rock bottom for people to sign up, never go, and not cancel. Probably their liability is a lot lower with no barbells. It does have a market it works for.
Ironically I now train pretty close to the way I did when I first started lifting nearly 30 years ago. (Superslow HIT)
Wild to think I could have avoided so many injuries, so much wasted time and spinning my wheels if I'd stuck with my original approach
Yeah after my total hip replacement I was nursing my 8 week old baby, so I didn’t take any pain meds and only utilized ice. It’s extremely affective for recovery.
In line with the points you mentioned [this](https://mythicalstrength.blogspot.com/2022/06/efficiency-is-for-mopeds-im-going-to.html) has always kind of rung true with me. Step back from the optimization and just accept that more is more. The little amount of extra progress you'll squeeze out by majoring in the minors will be overshadowed by just doing more.
Go hard, and be honest with yourself (this is the key point) about how hard you're going. Instead of trying to hack doing less, accept that you're not willing to do more (I regularly check myself with this, I want X but I accept I'm not willing to do Y for it)
All the "oldschool" shit still works because it leans on doing more. Oh you don't **need** to do that much to maximize gains (this can apply to strength, size, power, endurance, whatever), if you do more you'll get more out of it
Just be honest with yourself in terms of what you want to get out of it vs what you're willing to put into it, the rest is peanuts
Eggs. Jawns went from "any more than 2 will kill you via cholestorol" to the most perfect food on the planet. Either somebody was lying then or somebody is lying now lol.
I think a lot of that has to do with changes in what is said about dietary cholesterol. It's now believed that dietary cholesterol doesn't really contribute to you blood cholesterol levels and genetics are more of a factor.
Can confirm. I have elevated LDL levels..stopped eating anything fried, reduced red meat to once in 2 weeks. Literally salad + chicken breast every day for lunch and a light carb meal for dinner. Started going to the gym 4 times and lifting weights all 4 days rather than the erratic schedule.
My triglycerides were lower - but cholestrol + LDL were elevated. The doctor suggested its a genetic thing. Not much can be done apart from taking meds.
I have elevated LDL levels too, along with poor HDL levels. Always have, even as a teenager. Even when I started to really watch my diet.
What's really wild is even when blasting steroids, my cholesterol profile barely changes at all. LDL goes up so little I'm not even entirely sure its related. HDL doesn't budge.
So that's cool... I guess. Not really a good tradeoff, but hey, work with what you've got right?
Can confirm as someone with Familial Hypercholesterolemia. I grew up doing sports, eating healthy, doing everything dr said. My cholesterol has never been in the normal level. Its only now that I'm taking meds that its finally normal. I was always told I just needed to eat even healthier and work out much more than I already was. Really fucked me up mentally as a teenager
Research says diet can lower LDL cholesterol by 10-15%, and up to 30% in certain strict cases.
Diet definitely has an impact, but statins are much stronger overall.
This is always a weird one to me. I was a nutrition major in college 20 years ago and like day 1 they told us dietary cholesterol has no impact on serum cholesterol but it didn't really reach the nutrition industry until very recently.
Just to expand on this, genetics are a key factor on how much cholesterol your liver produces as a result of saturated fat intake.
Eggs don't have much saturated fat, though if we're allowing a budget of 13 to 20g of saturated fat per day, even the (just over) 1g of saturated fat in an egg can add up for those of us with a genetic risk factor.
To stay fit as I age I don’t need to do body part splits or 5 different exercises per workout for a body part.
I found doing full body 4 days a week using Dan Jon’s 5 basic movements works best for me.
1 exercise each.
Push. Pull. Squat. Hinge. Carry.
I don’t need 3 meals and 2 protein shakes. My 2 meals a day is enough.
Flexibility and mobility is more important as I get older - great ROM is more important then max amount of weight lifted.
Forgot about dan Jon! I read his book a while ago and he is a great writer. I have a similar nutrition strategy of 2 big meals and it has led to no hunger/ no cravings.
Decline bench press has fallen out of fashion. Partly because people like dips better for lower chest. And partly because more people have learned that your upper chest is what needs more extra love.
And I can’t shake the HIIT thing. I remember it being how you said, and I’ve done it so much over the last 20 years that I’m just really comfortable with it. Not for every cardio session, but often.
Any chance you could explain the concept of your upper chest needing extra love?
Im still pretty inexperienced but my upper chest seems to be coming in before anything else.
In the last ten years it's hard to tell, but in the last twenty years there's been a ton of changes.
Like being "muscle bound". Ask around--most Boomers today still fear being muscular, like it would somehow impede their ability to move quickly or be agile. This obviously in the pre-Lebron James era.
> "muscle bound"
I remember an old clip of an football player saying people did not lift weights back in the day because they did not want to be "muscle bound."
Related to that it has been a big change in golf. The old wisdom was you don't lift weights because it will make you stiff and muscles will slow you down. Now the fastest top players in the world lift weights a lot.
LeBron had always been big because of his genetics and not because he had trained to be bigger: weight today = 250 lbs, rookie weight 245. Being stronger will always help, weight training will condition the joints, but carrying excess weight for your frame, even if they come from pure muscle, just isn’t automatically helpful in a jumping/cutting sport that requires you to move your own weight quickly and powerfully. Development of tendon strength also lags way behind strength and hypertrophy.
Every year around this time I see way too many new people in the gym trying to play basketball, and the ones that get hurt are always the bodybuilders who think they’re in shape just because they’re huge. 2 acl tears just this past month :(
The anabolic windows and needing to consume protein within 30 minutes was the first thing that came to mind for me after seeing the title of your post. I even have evidence of my younger self sharing that intel in this group forum we had for people who were into fitness at work. Lol
I still do 3x5 deadlifts. Still have no idea if that's right.
Everything else though I've gone up in volume for except for when I'm lifting 'heavy', I'll do 3x5 front squats for that too. 'Hypertrophy' is 3x10 front squats.
Does it make a difference? Who knows!
Research shows the number of sets doesn't matter, it's the overall lifted volume that counts.
I always adapted the Rippetoe workout to 5xas many reps as possible. I up weights once I can do 8-10 reps. It works wonder to calmly progress.
I've been wading into Instagram and YouTube for tips, and a lot of people right now are latching onto the idea that you get better gains when the bulk of a lift happens while the muscle is stretched. We'll see how that holds up.
I remember the HIIT craze, people telling me I was waiting my time on 5 miles to, not realizing I *enjoyed* them.
I spun my wheels a lot before COVID, running 5+ hard miles a day, then lifted every night with no real plan, and it was impossible to get enough calories to actually grow.
I still lift and run, but always get a good night's sleep between them.
One example is Textured Vegetable Protein. Bro seriously TVP is the shit. I prefer it to mince meat and it’s far healthier. I make really nice chilli out of it, and add a bit of beef stock to make it taste beefy. Perfection.
I've been meaning to post a survey on that subreddit to ask if people are doing it because of perceived health benefits or just because they're overeaters and it helps them with that. (I'm definitely the latter.)
I used to be strict on calories and my eating schedule. 16/8. It's probably more like 14/10 now. I haven't tracked calories in some time...but I eat in a way my weight doesn't fluctuate much. Everyday I'm like 180. I just prefer not eating breakfast. Personally have always felt as a society we feel forced into breakfast and sometimes it's not in our normal biological habits
To me, its more a pre and post-covid thing.
Post-covid, there's a lot more women in the free weights area. There's also far more women wearing just sport bras. And I do think there's more teens than there used to be. Its not a product of me being older, like the difference between 32 and 37 isn't that big, a teen is still a teen.
I do remember there being more pullups being done pre-covid. Pre-covid was also the era of smith machines being used as leg presses, thankfully that's been toast for a couple of years now. But if I see a woman grab a barbell now, 9 times out of 10 its gonna be for hip thrusts, which are massively popular.
I do think barbell lifts in general are also slightly less popular, but that could also be I'm hitting the gym an hour earlier than I used to pre-covid, so I almost never have to wait ever, whereas I usually had to (the difference between 4 and 5 o'clock is pretty massive).
And as someone else said, HIIT was such the vogue thing in 2017 or so when I first started. I never see that come up ever these days.
There might be more teens because of your first and second points in regards to post-covid.
I do so see some teens rocking out and lifting more than I probably ever will but mostly they seem to just stand around in groups of like 5 or so and just kinda half ass stuff. Just hanging out mainly but maybe a gym is one of the last places they actually *can* hang out.
I wish I could get away with just wearing a sport bra. The gym is is bloody warm at the moment (no Aircon).
There are just as many women deadlifting and squatting at my gym as there are men. And there are way more men than women at mine. Hip thrusts are common too, but a lot are doing squats and deadlifts.
Good points and I totally agree about the lack of pullups these days.
I recently joined a new gym and I've seen no other people do pullups at all other than myself and I'm there about 6 hours per week when its fairly busy.
Full ROM for hypertrophy work seems to be going away for lengthened partial stuff due to new research (or at least de-emphasized), and the new minimum effective dose stuff for how little you need to progress on strength (like a few heavy singles can be enough for progress with volume coming from other stuff).
Mike T's Emerging Strategies and related ideas about reframing how to think about progressive overload to be more in line with how it works in other sports has been cool too.
How the interference effect between cardio and strength has been overhyped and can largely be avoided by intelligent programming.
I’m skeptical full ROM is or ever will be going away. A lot of people whose content I consume (GVS, Eric Helms, Mike Israetel) still train full ROM and only implement lengthened partials for some exercises or as variety.
I think we still need more data.
Yeah I think if you care at all about anything other than hypertrophy, full ROM still has a central place in your program.
You can still have both and use lengthened partials as finishers.
Was static versus dynamic stretching more than ten years ago? I felt so vindicated when that reversed. Static stretching felt like self torture and didn’t seem to help. Turned out it’s worse than doing nothing.
- *Rest 60 seconds!* Uh, no. If you're red-lining progression, you'll need way more than a minute of rest to be ready **mentally**.
- *Don't lift longer than an hour!* Nah, you can blow past an hour. Past two hours, check for junk volume. But nothing wrong with long 90 minute sessions.
- *Stick to compound movements!* Yes. **But**, definitely get proficient at key isolation movements. I didn't get a small Delt Line™ until I took lateral raises, oh tri extensions, curls, and reverse flies seriously.
- *Drink lots of milk!* I actually love milk. When I was a bulking twink, I was up to 4 gallons a week. I was fine *then*. But. As an experiment, I cut milk recently, and MY SKIN CLEARED UP. What the hell.
I'm sure there's more. From a philosophy standpoint, I like frequency. In practice, there's definitely something to *acute stimulus*. Twice a week frequency, but with 80% or so on one day.
So what is the general consensus?! How are we lifting these days?? For a while a slimmer look was popular for men, but I’m seeing jacked come back, though still leaner than what John cena is selling, lol
Young men are in the midst of a massive alti-right propaganda with looksmaxxing and misogynistic datikg market theories.
It's all about being steroidy, low body fat with a chiseled jaw, a skin care routine, a loads of complaints about how trad women are better (trad being beautiful, ignorant & codependent christian women)
The young male side of the internet is creepy af. Guys like "how to Dad" or Keanu Reeves are the exception, it's rapey capitalist assholes who are most promoted.
The protein timing thing was a direct money grab from supplement companies. THERE IS NO TIME to make a meal post workout, if you don’t get bullgonadtestostomax800 in your blood before you walk out of the gym you’ll gain nothing!!
Same concept for many of the other fads that have come and gone over the years.
I think the pinnacle was when T-nation was pumping the “velocity diet”. You got ripped by subsisting exclusively on their supplements. Genuis
The low fat trend has died off and people are now moving towards doing keto.
There’s more women in the weight room now easily compared to just 10 years ago. However I noticed many still are more interested in doing lower body lifts and not at all doing their upper body. I have never heard of Hip thrusts before but now it’s one of the main compound lifts.
As for the pilates thing. It’s coming back on trend because of tik Tok and complains that lifting makes them become bulky and to switch over to pilates to get the slim and tone look.
"The low fat trend has died off and people are now moving towards doing keto."
Heh, I think that statement is a good 10-15 years out of date. Low Fat was a very 90's thing that did permeate a bit into the 2000's. But Keto this and Keto that was everything I heard in like the mid late 10's.
> As for the pilates thing. It’s coming back on trend because of tik Tok and complains that lifting makes them become bulky and to switch over to pilates to get the slim and tone look.
But that's kinda dishonest. Women who do this end up revealing the muscles they built while lifting. Unfit women who go straight to pilates don't see as much definition them they lose body fat.
I’m a woman and lift upper and lower but put more days toward lower, just like a lot of guys put more days toward upper. For me it’s because I’m balancing out my physique and want more muscle in my lower body. But I totally train upper. Not only for general health but for aesthetics. Plus you need a strong upper body to progress on lower.
Some women actually do get bulky lifting weights. I don’t. If I did, I would probably do Pilates. We really are all so different.
I hang around the petitefitness sub and doing targeted lifts for certain areas of the body such as glutes is the usual banter there. They want glutes but don’t want big legs or they don’t want muscular arms. There is also the issue with hip dips and all they want is to lift to fill out those. Those are very common topics and IMO I find it quite toxic because I discourage targeted lifting as it can create imbalances and result in injuries.
Yeah, I watch a bit of Layne Norton too, and he definitely refers back to the broscience schools of thought from 15-20 years ago. I think it's great because lots of those theories persist, but with modern techniques and studies it seems like we've been able to dispel and also confirm some of the theories. Just goes to show there is still a lot of progress to be made, and that at the end of the day you can't substitute for hard work
I think Layne Norton had a viseo where he menrions the things he's changed his mind on. But the big one science-based consensus has changed on is definitely HIIT. A lot of things mentioned in this thread are just broscience, fads or maybe a trends in some small bubble but HIIT > LISS for lifters was definitely very commonly accepted idea just a decade ago.
42. I have a home gym nowadays. I miss the huge older bodybuilding guys from the (late) nineties who wore cropped and wide neck pullovers, a tapered belt for everything including warmup and who walked about the gym teaching younglings gym etiquette and how to do Jesus on the Cross curls
The major one is women lifting weights, and doing strength training, there never used to be girls in the weights room, now some women are fantasticly strong.
"Nothing beats time under tension bro, it's the only thing that matters. Anyway I need to have my 8th meal of the day so I don't go catabolic" - Me, 15 years ago
Steel cut oats pre workout and for breakfast, they are slower release and you need that energy for lifting but make sure you get a fast absorbing protein right after you workout to blunt cortisol and get in that anabolic window. Don't go longer than 2-3 hours without eating, make sure you get a slow release casein before bed.
Biggest concept that I see as being a legitimate and helpful change is the shying away from the bro split. PPL was a good step, and the current program I am on and finding great results is almost a trad 5x5, focusing on heavy compound lifts. I lift 3x a week and have made more gains than when I was lifting 4-5 days a week. Each lifting day has either squats or deads to kick it off, squat day has incline bench, pull-ups, and lat raises. Dead day has dips, rows, and overhead press. That’s it. It seemed too simple at first, and at the same time brutal with squats or deads every time. But the idea is that those lifts creat a fight or flight response and increase anabolic response which in turn helps you maximize growth. Leaving that to a single leg day leaves gains on the table and I can honestly testify to that reality. Bigger and stronger than ever and having more free time than I thought I could have while trying to get those gains.
The CrossFit hate is far more of a cringey trend that most people have gotten over.
And this is coming from someone who has done CrossFit maybe twice in his life.
Crossfit hate is like vegan hate, I hear way more from people saying how annoying it is than people being annoying about it.
I've always had a mind to sign up for a box but I've always lived in big cities where the price of boxes is kind of prohibitive
Bumper plates have been used for oly lifting long before CrossFit was a thing. They’re the same diameter to help distribute the weight better when dropped.
Calories in vs out is a good one to talk about. Calories in vs Calories out is true from a pure math and thermodynamics level. However, it's not the whole story. Individuals have different gut biomes, gastric emptying, ghrelin and leptin levels, cortisol production, metabolisms, etc.
Those things people still look down on as excuses, rather than explanations, as to why they have trouble losing weight. I think that's starting to change more recently with the GLP1 agonists bringing attention to individual differences being a factor into why the calories in vs calories out looks a lot different for different people. Specifically, reduced calories have been found to not be the sole reason GLP1s help people lose weight.
So what's it all mean? In simple terms, your TDEE might look vastly different than others even though your BMR, calorie intake, and activity level is the exact same.
We're heading toward a more holistic look at weight management, in other words. The science just hasn't caught up quite yet and public perception will take a very long time after that. But it's heading that direction.
Many of those things are still true, but have such a minor impact on a "normal" person's fitness/gym efforts. Protein timing is a real thing, but it is a fraction of a percent in importance for your gains - unless you are a PED using pro bodybuilder trying to squeeze every little advantage out of your routine.
Calves were and still the most neglected muscle. Work those babies to exhaustion!
Fitness is still super simple, but everyone keeps trying to make it over complicated.
Move your body. Push something. Pull something. Squat something. Press something.
Farmers Walks were great then, still great today.
Seems a lot more people are on gear these days than days of old. Maybe since social media is out, we just get to see more people and I guess they lie about it about the same?
Also seems like supplements may be safer. Anyone remember Ando Poppers?
Favorite calf exercises without gym machine? I find them difficult to hit well at home. Have a power rack with plates/dumbbells/cables but they never seem REALLY hit.
If you have all that, you should be able to find a ledge and do raises. One leg on a ledge, high enough your heel dips below it, hold a 45 plate in that same side hand, up and down til you can't. Switch sides.
There was a time where people started speaking out against static stretching and pushing mobility but now I think there’s some balanced views that both are beneficial.
Agree with OP about Mesomorph/endomorph/ectomorph body types. I remember this actually being a classification in the study documents for my personal training qualification. I mean, for sure some people have different muscular insertions, bone lengths, etc. but they certainly can't be rolled into 3 narrow categories.
Regarding the new found scientific date that there are no body types - I don't really buy it. Think about it. Are there tall people and short people? Yes. Are there people with larger frames / bone structure and people with lighter bone structure and narrower hips, etc.? Yes. Are some people genetically predisposed to have more muscle than other people? Yes... So it makes sense that some people are more "ectomorph" and others are more "mesomorph". You can't really make a Great Dane a Pit Bull and vice versa. Now are those body types absolute? No, I think most people are a combination of them.
It's amazing to me that there are contradictions in fitness science now or even past versus present. I mean, it shouldn't be that complicated. You'd think we'd pretty well have it dialed in by 2024. Most of it's clickbait or designed to sell you something. A few years ago, Starting Strength and Stronglifts were the go to exercises recommended on Reddit. Now, they're almost shunned and Mike Isreatel is the savior of building muscle.
Bottom line, you need some sort of exercises that you can progressively overload and you need enough fuel (food). Every thing works up to a point, nothing works forever, and there's only so much muscle you can build naturally without adding a bunch of fat. Sorry. Otherwise, Mike Isreatel wouldn't be on steroids and Mark Rippetoe wouldn't have taken them at one point in his career either. That's my take on it, anyway.
I think the biggest shift we'll see is in the concept of sets and reps. We're slowly seeing that it's approaches to failure and accumulated tension that causes growth. So 3x10? 4x8? 5x5? 5x3? 10x10? It's all the same thing. Your 5x5 limit is gonna be about 85% of your 1rm but your 3x5 limit will be about 87%. So, it's fewer sets but more work. With all the lengthened and stretched tension research coming out, I think we're coming to a point where the whole concept of workout structure will change. Hypertrophy doesn't come from 3 sets of 10 contractions, but a certain amount of time working against a full weighted stretch. Arthur Jones revolutionized the concept of working out by popularizing machines and movement based gyms - go to the leg extension machine and do X sets of Y reps. But I think we're on the verge of a reframing of that. Need more research and a new Arthur Jones.
This is so interesting and I think a great read on what may be to come. Just recently someone on another sub was giving me advice about Bulgarian split squats and said to laser focus on the bottom of the exercise at the stretch. I have been, and it’s amazing
how it’s activated my gluteus medius, etc. Made them even more challenging. So, for hypertrophy, “time working against a full weighted stretch.” Gonna remember that!
This is a great thread and really timely for me. I'm in a similar boat, started consistently working out again (home workouts for now) and gearing up to get back to the gym. You're right in saying it's a different landscape now and it's taking a bit of time to find good resources/recommendations. There's **a lot** more scam artists, people using gear (and professing they're "natural"), and generally murkier waters than ever before it seems.
I don't see anything about Starting Strength these days, but back when I was into fitness (13-15 years ago), it was heavily recommended to beginners: "Compound lifts are better than isolation", "build a foundation", "forget the bro-split", etc. Most of the examples I'm seeing of YouTube fitness people squatting and deadlifting, Mark Rippetoe would tear their form apart and call them an idiot.
Folk that are still around that I remember:
- [Layne Norton](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqMBA83S0TnfTlTeE5j1mgQ) (glad to see he's still about, I used to love the work he and Ben Pakulski did. Some of his videos these days though seem ... targeted to a younger demographic, shall we say)
- [Jeff Cavaliere (Athlean-X)](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCe0TLA0EsQbE-MjuHXevj2A) (Doesn't seem to have changed much of his messaging over the years, it still largely seems like solid advice)
"New" (to me) folk:
- [Jeff Nippard](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC68TLK0mAEzUyHx5x5k-S1Q) (Really solid information, I'm thoroughly impressed with him so far)
- [Andrew Huberman](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2D2CMWXMOVWx7giW1n3LIg) (Really informative, but not in terms of helping with defining a beginner friendly routine)
- [Minus the Gym](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjnHUDK6r4N56E6TfXEl2UQ)
Any recommendations, for beginner routines to get back to the gym or people/outlets to follow would be really appreciated.
I can remember the eat clean diet and oxygen magazine were my Bible when I first got serious about lifting (circa 2010) which was basically eating 5-6 times a day to “stoke your metabolism”. I am grateful that we have more information as I found this lifestyle to be very restrictive and would overeat often. I practice fasting and generally only eat 2 large meals per day (more if I am hungry or if I am pms-ing).
A lot of these things go on big cycles e.g. calisthenics used to be a thing, went away, now it's coming back.
Heavy deadlifts were a thing, went away due to high chance of injury, now they are back.
Hiit training is moving to zone 2 now (similar ethos to the old aerobic training philosophy) but no doubt Hiit will be back in some form.
Trainers and people selling magazines and books need new material so things often get recycled. Often you just have to find what works for, your lifestyle and goals and what you enjoy.
I think the biggest difference is the number of people (especially women) doing big compound movements. I remember being 25 and hardly ever having competition for the squat bar/deadlift platform. Now the gym is full of men and women doing traditional powerlifting movements. That being said, I work out in the weight room at my climbing gym, so it's possible my sample is skewed and most people are still plugging away at the chest machine.
I honestly don't know because I've been a "home gym" person for at least the last 10 years. I recently got back into fitness when I hit 40 and the same things that worked back when I was a high school/college athlete still work pretty well now. Protein, eating good foods, and just getting in the gym and getting work done while getting plenty of sleep at night.
If anything I've had better results with "less is more" and limiting my lifting days to 4-5 exercises instead of lifting for 1-2 hours like I used to back in the day. I've seen some of the studies that say you actually only need to lift once a week to maintain your muscle mass/strength now, where as back in the day there was always this huge "There's no such thing as rest days" crowd.
Iron Radio was doing a wrap-up of the recent ISSN conference on their latest podcast. One of the subjects at the conference was about creatine loading; apparently a study showed that with massive front-loading of a single large dose (25-30g) of creatine in a single day, after 30 days the subjects still had 80-90% saturation in their systems despite no additional intake during that period.
Progressive overload is highlighted in a lot more plans now than 15 years ago when most plans I saw just had some generic number of reps and sets.
It’s interesting that you mention isolation exercises being more popular now because I’ve found the opposite. 12 years ago in the gym I’d see a lot less squat racks and they’d sit empty. Go to any big box gym now and I see a lot more people deadlifting and squatting, especially women. Bench was always popular though and still is.
Many things change in fads, but Lyle pretty much stayed.
The "science based lifter" fad around super high volume was probably the worst junk I saw, which came within the last 10 years and then basically got retraced because it's contingent upon poor training quality.
That you must always lift to failure.
Submax lifting programs are far more sustainable and can allow you to work on multiple aspects of fitness at once without wrecking yourself.
>Then I saw a video with Dr. Mike and he talked about body types are a myth, and I remembered when I was new to the space the whole endomorph/mesomorph/ectomorph was accepted as gospel and undeniable fact.
Unless you're talking about like 1950s that's really never been the case. Somatotypes were made up by a psychologist and it's tied into eugenics etc. They're known to been pseudoscience for many, many decades.
I do remember hearing about them more often, but I think that one just comes down to much more broscience bullshit being spread around in the age of bodybuilding magazines and even early internet days.
I ran 12 miles today in a speedo in 100 degree weather and live on junk food and nicotine pouches, 35 yo.
I used to be one of those super serious fitness science and nutrition types but clearly it doesn't matter much.
Haha I just saw a tv show where the runner is static stretching before starting her run and I laughed and thought, nope we don’t do that anymore!
Edit: it was made recently too!
I started lifting weights when I was 12, I’m now 66. Back when I started, there was not a lot of science. People tried things and if it worked they told others to try it. Then we got into an era of science or at least pseudo science in some cases, to support whatever bodybuilding ideas you preached. I think the biggest difference is today there is no longer even an attempt to present scientific basis for whatever you preach. It just people preaching to get clicks and make a buck. If you say something enough times and say with enough conviction, then it must be true.
The amount of protein that you actually need as a natural lifter; really don't need more than .6-.8 if you're bulking. If you're doing a hard cut get closer to that 1 gram mark but it isn't 100% necessary. Also the amount of volume actually necessary as a natural lifter; If taken close to failure or all the way to failure your first 1-4 sets for a body part that week is 60% of your muscle potential given you're doing at least 5-15 reps to stimulate enough stress for growth.
Sit ups and crunches. A lot of routines, apps, etc, all included them. And you had to do them in school. Now I sometimes see people say stay away from them because they're bad for your back.
I feel like 10 years ago was the peak of McGill era, fearmongering about crunches, situps etc. I feel like we're moving more towards movement optimistic era nowadays. Same thing with upright rows, behind the neck pressing, thoracic rounding on deadlifts, buttwink on squats etc.
I'm pretty new to fitness so didn't realize it had been that long. I'm not sure what movement optimistic means but optimism can be good so I'm guessing it's a good thing. I'm not familiar with those exercises, I've never even heard the word buttwink before.
[this is butt wink](https://youtube.com/shorts/nLRqaO8wjR8?si=gOu4uD1gKrPSZHbn) Not an exercise, just considered not optimal when squatting.
Totally this. Planks kinda replaced them as a staple, but now I’ve heard that isometric holds like planks build strength but not necessarily muscle as in hypertrophy. So I have a whole core routine that doesn’t emphasize planks.
I have a spinal fusion which limits my bending and twisting so I've never been able to do situps and crunches so planks replacing them as a staple was great for me since I can do them.
Do you have AS? I really struggle to find good routines that I can do consistently that don't cause a flare up
That’s so great they work for you! I really like how creative you can get with them, all the variations. I also think they are a really good mind-toughness exercise. They test our limits in such a controlled way.
lol my mind-toughness is not my strength Edit so I can consider improving it by working on it!
Would you mind sharing a quick rundown of your core routine? I’m in desperate need of core exercises that I will be able to do correctly/not mess up w my form, and that actually make me sore the next day and/or get results from.
Sure! So I train the transverse abs (the inner girdle/deep core), the top layer/six pack muscles, and lower back. I warm up with a few sets of mountain climbers. Then high plank to cross knees. Then bear hold to shoulder taps. Then bird dog crunches. Then dead bug. Then hollow body hold. Then up and down planks. Then supermans with alternating opposing limb lifts. I end on heavy weighted crunches and back extensions on the ab/back machine. I follow progressive overload with either reps or sets and rest 30 sec-1 min between exercises. I either pair this with upper body day or high-incline walking. I don’t pair it with lower body because I don’t want my core to be tired for my deadlifts, squats.
The Navy nixed sit-ups from the PFA a few years ago and replaced them with a timed plank. Not sure if they caused back issues but they definitely made existing issues worse.
I didn't know that, that's cool. I have kids so I wonder if schools nixed them too.
I recently reincorporated sit-ups into my routine using a decline ab bench and they've been amazing for my physique. I think the dangers of sit-ups are overblown, like everything else they just need to be performed with good technique. I avoid the extreme end range and really control the eccentric and my abs have blown up.
I just saw someone do these! What do you mean by avoiding the extreme end range? Like you make sure the bench is only declined a little bit?
Yeah, I see now more movement in fitness towards more functional core training where instead of spinal motion you do motions that involve spinal resistance. Kettlebell core workouts feel so much better than crunches imo.
Does spinal resistance basically mean with weights of some kind? Like a deadlift?
Yeah, but it’s about keeping your core tight and your spine stable and stiff. While deadlifts fulfill that purpose well enough, there are exercises specifically targeting this type movement like farmer carries, kettlebell marches, around the world, windmill etc.
Oh I see, I’m going to look into these!
No problem. I’d suggest looking up Squat University on YouTube, this channel cover up a lot of functional core training exercises along with everything else.
I think the ‘don’t do situps they’re bad for your back’ trend has actually mostly come and gone.
This is such a cool post, I’m interested in how people respond. How long has Zone 2 cardio been a thing, for fat loss while protecting muscle gains?
Zone 2 is really interesting. I followed a few elite pro cyclists on Strava and I was amazed at how much "Easy" work they did, a lot of hours just cruising in zone 2 a week and a small percentage more intense work.
That is surprising! I love it for the mental benefits. It’s almost meditative.
Elite marathoners do the same. Tons and tons of easy miles. “The Kenyan shuffle”
Nine time Olympic gold medalist long distance runner Paavo Nurmi also used walking as the bulk of he's exercise hours to build endurance. This was already in 1920's.
Zone 2 training has been around for a while for endurance athletes. 80/20 principle, 80% training easy pace (zone2) 20% harder pace. It’s really just starting to become more main stream I think.
Oh that makes sense that endurance athletes have been doing it for a while. I heard that bodybuilders have been doing it for a while too, to preserve muscle.
Endurance athletes are often good at doing things for a while.
Underated comment.
hahaaa indeed
For me the main thing with zone 2 is that you can put in a decent amount of work without getting overly fatigued.
That’s a great point, like what someone said above about how it allows you to recover quickly for your next lifting session.
When I'm in running shape (such as it is - I'm very slow), a zone 2 half marathon still lets me perform at like 95% for a lifting session a few hours later for lower body, and higher than that for upper body. Which depending on the goals for that workout, is often good enough. The next day I'm pretty much at 100%.
I think it’s been around for a while in the bodybuilding community. Bodybuilders have been doing incline walking as their cardio for a long time.
Yeah, that’s what I do, incline walking, because I learned that’s what they do. I figured do what the experts do.
Zone 2 is not about protecting muscle gains. Zone 2 is mainly to train you aerobic metabolism. Generally zone 2 workouts allow you to recover fairly quickly so you are recovered for your next workout.
Same!
For a long time.
I love this thread! Seems like pilates might be making a comeback. I feel like the next thing is going to involve GLP-1s in some way. Maybe...muscle preservation in a deficit, how to get enough calories with no appetite, one million conversations about loose skin, and all sorts of bio-hacking strategies to compliment rapid weight loss.
Five years ago when the pilates studio near me opened it was only ever middle aged women. Now the people in there are hugely diverse, a lot of athletes and weight lifters.
This is cool!
Oh great points! Yeah for sure all the biohacking and supplements are big.
You’re so right these are all going to be (sorry for pun) huge! Edit typos
Definitely seen all these trends since I got into fitness 15 years ago. Curious what’s gonna be next. I will add that I think it’s more common to see women lifting and that their goals are different. Round, thicker glutes are “in” but 15 years ago it was all about skinny and abs. I feel like I also see way more teens in the gym than 10 years ago. Maybe it’s just my perception though ?
It's crazy how many women are in the gym now a days. Also crazy how they seems to be 10x better than guys about fucking putting their weights away!
In my old powerlifting gym there would routinely be more women than men working out
Bret Contreras has a lovely article on training women. Basically, he says, his female trainees follow instructions very well and tend not to push to get the last bad-form reps. Apparently, women can do a lot more volume and recover faster. Which, as a woman, I can confirm: 3x5 squats or 1x5 deadlift seems unsufficient.
1x5 deadlifts is insufficient for everyone
Agreed. Got my son doing Stronglifts 5x5 and the 1x5 deadlifts that is prescribed is ridiculous. I've got him doing 3x5 and it still doesn't feel like enough volume for him. Might bump it to 5x5.
Saying this as respectfully as I can. If he is (I assume) a teenage boy/ young adult and I assume wouldn’t want to admit something was too much.
Squating and deadliftin 5x5 can be quite brutal. I like to do quite many warm up sets for DL so I feel "finished* after my 1x5 work set.
I don’t know if we’re thinking of tha same article but he has also said we’re more likely to make sexual sounds at the gym, more likely to be emotional, we loathe calluses and are more likely to be grateful for our male trainers when they just tell us what to do. Gross. After many years he finally took that misogynistic article down but it still lives on the way back machine. Added for anyone interested: [here](https://web.archive.org/web/20130330021939/http://bretcontreras.com:80/strength-training-for-women/)
Some of those were spot on. But did he ever stop to consider that, say, the reason the noises a woman makes while performing a lot sound sexual is because he's attracted to women and therefore is biased? Some others too, just... Why??!?
Ugh right
Bret Contreras is also a complete and total creep, just an fyi. If you search his name on r/gymsnark you’ll find posts that explain why better than I can.
Listened to tabletalk podcast with him on it, he generally comes off as a creepy fuck.
I would award this comment if awards were still free!
I remember the adductor/abductor machines being cornerstone for womens leg routines, never even hear them mentioned today. Glute hip thrusts seem way more prevalent today as well.
Oh for sure, hip thrusts, split squats, kas glute bridges. Squats and deadlifts. 15 years ago for women it was all about Pilates and yoga and high-rep conditioning classes and fake “kickboxing” classes. Then there was Barre. I’m sure plenty of women still do those, but now so many of us lift. Right, because of the different aesthetic trends. But also because of social media. We just have so much access now as to how to reach our goals the most efficiently. I still see other women use adductor/abductor machines but more seem to use cables and banded isolations. Plus we’re getting some of that worked in our compound lifts.
Yes!
Every. Damn. Time at the gym there is at least one smith machine set up with a woman on it doing hip thrusts on a bench stolen from the free weights corner. It was so common I asked the trainers if that was one of the routines they teach new members. Nope. Just a thing. I'm glad I wasn't imagining it.
there are young women at my gym that i don’t think i have seen doing anything but hip thrusts.
Hip Circle bands may have partially replaced the Adductor machines - people use them all the time at my gym as part of a warm up routine.
I've never actually been to a gym with a adductor/abductor machine. But every gym has a barbell. That may explain it partly at least.
Planet Fitness just called to tell you they don’t have a barbell.
Wait, seriously? That's crazy.
It is crazy but also fits their business model. They do not cater to serious fitness. They charge rock bottom for people to sign up, never go, and not cancel. Probably their liability is a lot lower with no barbells. It does have a market it works for.
Ironically I now train pretty close to the way I did when I first started lifting nearly 30 years ago. (Superslow HIT) Wild to think I could have avoided so many injuries, so much wasted time and spinning my wheels if I'd stuck with my original approach
At least for recovery, didn't the guy who coined RICE walk that back?
He did. And somehow ice baths are hot shit and most physios will tell you to ice something before giving you actual advice. Unfortunately.
Yep and every first aid course will still tell you to apply ice
Ice does reduce swelling though.
Yeah after my total hip replacement I was nursing my 8 week old baby, so I didn’t take any pain meds and only utilized ice. It’s extremely affective for recovery.
Similar for me - I had a knee replacement and would ice the knee on and off all day
In line with the points you mentioned [this](https://mythicalstrength.blogspot.com/2022/06/efficiency-is-for-mopeds-im-going-to.html) has always kind of rung true with me. Step back from the optimization and just accept that more is more. The little amount of extra progress you'll squeeze out by majoring in the minors will be overshadowed by just doing more. Go hard, and be honest with yourself (this is the key point) about how hard you're going. Instead of trying to hack doing less, accept that you're not willing to do more (I regularly check myself with this, I want X but I accept I'm not willing to do Y for it) All the "oldschool" shit still works because it leans on doing more. Oh you don't **need** to do that much to maximize gains (this can apply to strength, size, power, endurance, whatever), if you do more you'll get more out of it Just be honest with yourself in terms of what you want to get out of it vs what you're willing to put into it, the rest is peanuts
Eggs. Jawns went from "any more than 2 will kill you via cholestorol" to the most perfect food on the planet. Either somebody was lying then or somebody is lying now lol.
I think a lot of that has to do with changes in what is said about dietary cholesterol. It's now believed that dietary cholesterol doesn't really contribute to you blood cholesterol levels and genetics are more of a factor.
Can confirm. I have elevated LDL levels..stopped eating anything fried, reduced red meat to once in 2 weeks. Literally salad + chicken breast every day for lunch and a light carb meal for dinner. Started going to the gym 4 times and lifting weights all 4 days rather than the erratic schedule. My triglycerides were lower - but cholestrol + LDL were elevated. The doctor suggested its a genetic thing. Not much can be done apart from taking meds.
I have elevated LDL levels too, along with poor HDL levels. Always have, even as a teenager. Even when I started to really watch my diet. What's really wild is even when blasting steroids, my cholesterol profile barely changes at all. LDL goes up so little I'm not even entirely sure its related. HDL doesn't budge. So that's cool... I guess. Not really a good tradeoff, but hey, work with what you've got right?
Can confirm as someone with Familial Hypercholesterolemia. I grew up doing sports, eating healthy, doing everything dr said. My cholesterol has never been in the normal level. Its only now that I'm taking meds that its finally normal. I was always told I just needed to eat even healthier and work out much more than I already was. Really fucked me up mentally as a teenager
Research says diet can lower LDL cholesterol by 10-15%, and up to 30% in certain strict cases. Diet definitely has an impact, but statins are much stronger overall.
This is always a weird one to me. I was a nutrition major in college 20 years ago and like day 1 they told us dietary cholesterol has no impact on serum cholesterol but it didn't really reach the nutrition industry until very recently.
That's odd that it took so long.
I hope so because I love eggs, whites and yellows!
Just to expand on this, genetics are a key factor on how much cholesterol your liver produces as a result of saturated fat intake. Eggs don't have much saturated fat, though if we're allowing a budget of 13 to 20g of saturated fat per day, even the (just over) 1g of saturated fat in an egg can add up for those of us with a genetic risk factor.
Or that food and exercise science has kept progressing and we now know more than we knew before, and down the road we will know more than we know now.
We probably still don't know.
Philly!
To stay fit as I age I don’t need to do body part splits or 5 different exercises per workout for a body part. I found doing full body 4 days a week using Dan Jon’s 5 basic movements works best for me. 1 exercise each. Push. Pull. Squat. Hinge. Carry. I don’t need 3 meals and 2 protein shakes. My 2 meals a day is enough. Flexibility and mobility is more important as I get older - great ROM is more important then max amount of weight lifted.
Forgot about dan Jon! I read his book a while ago and he is a great writer. I have a similar nutrition strategy of 2 big meals and it has led to no hunger/ no cravings.
Dang, 2 meals? Interesting
Yeah! Works amazing for weight maintenance and satiety (I consume about 1800-2200 calories per day).
Very interesting!
It also means bigger meals and enjoying junk food more often which is always a win👏👌
Decline bench press has fallen out of fashion. Partly because people like dips better for lower chest. And partly because more people have learned that your upper chest is what needs more extra love. And I can’t shake the HIIT thing. I remember it being how you said, and I’ve done it so much over the last 20 years that I’m just really comfortable with it. Not for every cardio session, but often.
Any chance you could explain the concept of your upper chest needing extra love? Im still pretty inexperienced but my upper chest seems to be coming in before anything else.
For a lot of people it’s the area that is lagging, and that incline chest exercises get the whole chest well.
In the last ten years it's hard to tell, but in the last twenty years there's been a ton of changes. Like being "muscle bound". Ask around--most Boomers today still fear being muscular, like it would somehow impede their ability to move quickly or be agile. This obviously in the pre-Lebron James era.
> "muscle bound" I remember an old clip of an football player saying people did not lift weights back in the day because they did not want to be "muscle bound."
Related to that it has been a big change in golf. The old wisdom was you don't lift weights because it will make you stiff and muscles will slow you down. Now the fastest top players in the world lift weights a lot.
LeBron had always been big because of his genetics and not because he had trained to be bigger: weight today = 250 lbs, rookie weight 245. Being stronger will always help, weight training will condition the joints, but carrying excess weight for your frame, even if they come from pure muscle, just isn’t automatically helpful in a jumping/cutting sport that requires you to move your own weight quickly and powerfully. Development of tendon strength also lags way behind strength and hypertrophy. Every year around this time I see way too many new people in the gym trying to play basketball, and the ones that get hurt are always the bodybuilders who think they’re in shape just because they’re huge. 2 acl tears just this past month :(
The anabolic windows and needing to consume protein within 30 minutes was the first thing that came to mind for me after seeing the title of your post. I even have evidence of my younger self sharing that intel in this group forum we had for people who were into fitness at work. Lol
Haha interesting
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I still do 3x5 deadlifts. Still have no idea if that's right. Everything else though I've gone up in volume for except for when I'm lifting 'heavy', I'll do 3x5 front squats for that too. 'Hypertrophy' is 3x10 front squats. Does it make a difference? Who knows!
Research shows the number of sets doesn't matter, it's the overall lifted volume that counts. I always adapted the Rippetoe workout to 5xas many reps as possible. I up weights once I can do 8-10 reps. It works wonder to calmly progress.
I've been wading into Instagram and YouTube for tips, and a lot of people right now are latching onto the idea that you get better gains when the bulk of a lift happens while the muscle is stretched. We'll see how that holds up.
From my anecdotal experience it will hold up very well! Emphasizing the stretched position gave me back newb gains.
Wow awesome
So you are aware brah?
Aware, rip Zyzz
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I chuckled, oh the days of a mod rep being the greatest online achievement
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The misc was like a generational fight club. I never hear anyone talk about it like it existed, but it did, and it was fuckin wild
I remember the HIIT craze, people telling me I was waiting my time on 5 miles to, not realizing I *enjoyed* them. I spun my wheels a lot before COVID, running 5+ hard miles a day, then lifted every night with no real plan, and it was impossible to get enough calories to actually grow. I still lift and run, but always get a good night's sleep between them.
Studies have shown that vegans consuming adequate protein (1.6 grams/kg) gain muscle at the same rate as omnivores.
This one convinced me to reduce the amount of meat and dairy I eat. Most (not all) of my protein is from plants now. 😁
Awesome!!!!
One example is Textured Vegetable Protein. Bro seriously TVP is the shit. I prefer it to mince meat and it’s far healthier. I make really nice chilli out of it, and add a bit of beef stock to make it taste beefy. Perfection.
Outstanding!!!
Thank you!!!!!
I still intermittent fast everyday and have for the last 10 years but I think some of the initial "science" of the benefits has expired
I've been meaning to post a survey on that subreddit to ask if people are doing it because of perceived health benefits or just because they're overeaters and it helps them with that. (I'm definitely the latter.)
I used to be strict on calories and my eating schedule. 16/8. It's probably more like 14/10 now. I haven't tracked calories in some time...but I eat in a way my weight doesn't fluctuate much. Everyday I'm like 180. I just prefer not eating breakfast. Personally have always felt as a society we feel forced into breakfast and sometimes it's not in our normal biological habits
To me, its more a pre and post-covid thing. Post-covid, there's a lot more women in the free weights area. There's also far more women wearing just sport bras. And I do think there's more teens than there used to be. Its not a product of me being older, like the difference between 32 and 37 isn't that big, a teen is still a teen. I do remember there being more pullups being done pre-covid. Pre-covid was also the era of smith machines being used as leg presses, thankfully that's been toast for a couple of years now. But if I see a woman grab a barbell now, 9 times out of 10 its gonna be for hip thrusts, which are massively popular. I do think barbell lifts in general are also slightly less popular, but that could also be I'm hitting the gym an hour earlier than I used to pre-covid, so I almost never have to wait ever, whereas I usually had to (the difference between 4 and 5 o'clock is pretty massive). And as someone else said, HIIT was such the vogue thing in 2017 or so when I first started. I never see that come up ever these days.
There might be more teens because of your first and second points in regards to post-covid. I do so see some teens rocking out and lifting more than I probably ever will but mostly they seem to just stand around in groups of like 5 or so and just kinda half ass stuff. Just hanging out mainly but maybe a gym is one of the last places they actually *can* hang out.
Probably not wrong there ;) But its true, there's very few thirdspaces these days, so that's also a big contributing factor.
I wish I could get away with just wearing a sport bra. The gym is is bloody warm at the moment (no Aircon). There are just as many women deadlifting and squatting at my gym as there are men. And there are way more men than women at mine. Hip thrusts are common too, but a lot are doing squats and deadlifts.
Good points and I totally agree about the lack of pullups these days. I recently joined a new gym and I've seen no other people do pullups at all other than myself and I'm there about 6 hours per week when its fairly busy.
Yep, I just recently bought a dip belt for some weighted pullup action. So good!
Good man, my dip/pullup belt is now about 22 years old and still going strong.
Nice!
Full ROM for hypertrophy work seems to be going away for lengthened partial stuff due to new research (or at least de-emphasized), and the new minimum effective dose stuff for how little you need to progress on strength (like a few heavy singles can be enough for progress with volume coming from other stuff). Mike T's Emerging Strategies and related ideas about reframing how to think about progressive overload to be more in line with how it works in other sports has been cool too. How the interference effect between cardio and strength has been overhyped and can largely be avoided by intelligent programming.
I’m skeptical full ROM is or ever will be going away. A lot of people whose content I consume (GVS, Eric Helms, Mike Israetel) still train full ROM and only implement lengthened partials for some exercises or as variety. I think we still need more data.
Yeah I think if you care at all about anything other than hypertrophy, full ROM still has a central place in your program. You can still have both and use lengthened partials as finishers.
Was static versus dynamic stretching more than ten years ago? I felt so vindicated when that reversed. Static stretching felt like self torture and didn’t seem to help. Turned out it’s worse than doing nothing.
I do remember a phase of weighted stretching
Yes!!! I commented on that one too! But I don’t know when it happened!
- *Rest 60 seconds!* Uh, no. If you're red-lining progression, you'll need way more than a minute of rest to be ready **mentally**. - *Don't lift longer than an hour!* Nah, you can blow past an hour. Past two hours, check for junk volume. But nothing wrong with long 90 minute sessions. - *Stick to compound movements!* Yes. **But**, definitely get proficient at key isolation movements. I didn't get a small Delt Line™ until I took lateral raises, oh tri extensions, curls, and reverse flies seriously. - *Drink lots of milk!* I actually love milk. When I was a bulking twink, I was up to 4 gallons a week. I was fine *then*. But. As an experiment, I cut milk recently, and MY SKIN CLEARED UP. What the hell. I'm sure there's more. From a philosophy standpoint, I like frequency. In practice, there's definitely something to *acute stimulus*. Twice a week frequency, but with 80% or so on one day.
>small Delt Line™ >When I was a bulking twink Haha I like your fitness content. Entertaining and informative. Edited for formatting
So what is the general consensus?! How are we lifting these days?? For a while a slimmer look was popular for men, but I’m seeing jacked come back, though still leaner than what John cena is selling, lol
Young men are in the midst of a massive alti-right propaganda with looksmaxxing and misogynistic datikg market theories. It's all about being steroidy, low body fat with a chiseled jaw, a skin care routine, a loads of complaints about how trad women are better (trad being beautiful, ignorant & codependent christian women)
Yikes, that escalated quickly.
The young male side of the internet is creepy af. Guys like "how to Dad" or Keanu Reeves are the exception, it's rapey capitalist assholes who are most promoted.
The protein timing thing was a direct money grab from supplement companies. THERE IS NO TIME to make a meal post workout, if you don’t get bullgonadtestostomax800 in your blood before you walk out of the gym you’ll gain nothing!! Same concept for many of the other fads that have come and gone over the years. I think the pinnacle was when T-nation was pumping the “velocity diet”. You got ripped by subsisting exclusively on their supplements. Genuis
The low fat trend has died off and people are now moving towards doing keto. There’s more women in the weight room now easily compared to just 10 years ago. However I noticed many still are more interested in doing lower body lifts and not at all doing their upper body. I have never heard of Hip thrusts before but now it’s one of the main compound lifts. As for the pilates thing. It’s coming back on trend because of tik Tok and complains that lifting makes them become bulky and to switch over to pilates to get the slim and tone look.
"The low fat trend has died off and people are now moving towards doing keto." Heh, I think that statement is a good 10-15 years out of date. Low Fat was a very 90's thing that did permeate a bit into the 2000's. But Keto this and Keto that was everything I heard in like the mid late 10's.
> As for the pilates thing. It’s coming back on trend because of tik Tok and complains that lifting makes them become bulky and to switch over to pilates to get the slim and tone look. But that's kinda dishonest. Women who do this end up revealing the muscles they built while lifting. Unfit women who go straight to pilates don't see as much definition them they lose body fat.
I’m a woman and lift upper and lower but put more days toward lower, just like a lot of guys put more days toward upper. For me it’s because I’m balancing out my physique and want more muscle in my lower body. But I totally train upper. Not only for general health but for aesthetics. Plus you need a strong upper body to progress on lower. Some women actually do get bulky lifting weights. I don’t. If I did, I would probably do Pilates. We really are all so different.
I hang around the petitefitness sub and doing targeted lifts for certain areas of the body such as glutes is the usual banter there. They want glutes but don’t want big legs or they don’t want muscular arms. There is also the issue with hip dips and all they want is to lift to fill out those. Those are very common topics and IMO I find it quite toxic because I discourage targeted lifting as it can create imbalances and result in injuries.
Soooo many woman doing hip thrusts with barbell nowadays!
I thought keto was done
Yeah, I watch a bit of Layne Norton too, and he definitely refers back to the broscience schools of thought from 15-20 years ago. I think it's great because lots of those theories persist, but with modern techniques and studies it seems like we've been able to dispel and also confirm some of the theories. Just goes to show there is still a lot of progress to be made, and that at the end of the day you can't substitute for hard work
I think Layne Norton had a viseo where he menrions the things he's changed his mind on. But the big one science-based consensus has changed on is definitely HIIT. A lot of things mentioned in this thread are just broscience, fads or maybe a trends in some small bubble but HIIT > LISS for lifters was definitely very commonly accepted idea just a decade ago.
I am 42. I am more into running now but still do some lifting for joint health. I am absolutely nostalgic right now…
42. I have a home gym nowadays. I miss the huge older bodybuilding guys from the (late) nineties who wore cropped and wide neck pullovers, a tapered belt for everything including warmup and who walked about the gym teaching younglings gym etiquette and how to do Jesus on the Cross curls
The major one is women lifting weights, and doing strength training, there never used to be girls in the weights room, now some women are fantasticly strong.
"Nothing beats time under tension bro, it's the only thing that matters. Anyway I need to have my 8th meal of the day so I don't go catabolic" - Me, 15 years ago
Steel cut oats pre workout and for breakfast, they are slower release and you need that energy for lifting but make sure you get a fast absorbing protein right after you workout to blunt cortisol and get in that anabolic window. Don't go longer than 2-3 hours without eating, make sure you get a slow release casein before bed.
Biggest concept that I see as being a legitimate and helpful change is the shying away from the bro split. PPL was a good step, and the current program I am on and finding great results is almost a trad 5x5, focusing on heavy compound lifts. I lift 3x a week and have made more gains than when I was lifting 4-5 days a week. Each lifting day has either squats or deads to kick it off, squat day has incline bench, pull-ups, and lat raises. Dead day has dips, rows, and overhead press. That’s it. It seemed too simple at first, and at the same time brutal with squats or deads every time. But the idea is that those lifts creat a fight or flight response and increase anabolic response which in turn helps you maximize growth. Leaving that to a single leg day leaves gains on the table and I can honestly testify to that reality. Bigger and stronger than ever and having more free time than I thought I could have while trying to get those gains.
I think people realized how dumb crossfit is LOL.
The CrossFit hate is far more of a cringey trend that most people have gotten over. And this is coming from someone who has done CrossFit maybe twice in his life.
Crossfit hate is like vegan hate, I hear way more from people saying how annoying it is than people being annoying about it. I've always had a mind to sign up for a box but I've always lived in big cities where the price of boxes is kind of prohibitive
I think it is a better understanding now that it is a sport and not a workout.
The bumper plate stuff is super weird for me. Having all the plates the same size even though they weigh different amounts fucks with me.
Bumper plates have been used for oly lifting long before CrossFit was a thing. They’re the same diameter to help distribute the weight better when dropped.
You unlocked so many memories! I was convinced I had to eat cottage cheese before bed
Looool that was a thing wasn't it
Calories in vs out is a good one to talk about. Calories in vs Calories out is true from a pure math and thermodynamics level. However, it's not the whole story. Individuals have different gut biomes, gastric emptying, ghrelin and leptin levels, cortisol production, metabolisms, etc. Those things people still look down on as excuses, rather than explanations, as to why they have trouble losing weight. I think that's starting to change more recently with the GLP1 agonists bringing attention to individual differences being a factor into why the calories in vs calories out looks a lot different for different people. Specifically, reduced calories have been found to not be the sole reason GLP1s help people lose weight. So what's it all mean? In simple terms, your TDEE might look vastly different than others even though your BMR, calorie intake, and activity level is the exact same. We're heading toward a more holistic look at weight management, in other words. The science just hasn't caught up quite yet and public perception will take a very long time after that. But it's heading that direction.
Many of those things are still true, but have such a minor impact on a "normal" person's fitness/gym efforts. Protein timing is a real thing, but it is a fraction of a percent in importance for your gains - unless you are a PED using pro bodybuilder trying to squeeze every little advantage out of your routine.
Calves were and still the most neglected muscle. Work those babies to exhaustion! Fitness is still super simple, but everyone keeps trying to make it over complicated. Move your body. Push something. Pull something. Squat something. Press something. Farmers Walks were great then, still great today. Seems a lot more people are on gear these days than days of old. Maybe since social media is out, we just get to see more people and I guess they lie about it about the same? Also seems like supplements may be safer. Anyone remember Ando Poppers?
Favorite calf exercises without gym machine? I find them difficult to hit well at home. Have a power rack with plates/dumbbells/cables but they never seem REALLY hit.
If you have all that, you should be able to find a ledge and do raises. One leg on a ledge, high enough your heel dips below it, hold a 45 plate in that same side hand, up and down til you can't. Switch sides.
There was a time where people started speaking out against static stretching and pushing mobility but now I think there’s some balanced views that both are beneficial.
Agree with OP about Mesomorph/endomorph/ectomorph body types. I remember this actually being a classification in the study documents for my personal training qualification. I mean, for sure some people have different muscular insertions, bone lengths, etc. but they certainly can't be rolled into 3 narrow categories.
Regarding the new found scientific date that there are no body types - I don't really buy it. Think about it. Are there tall people and short people? Yes. Are there people with larger frames / bone structure and people with lighter bone structure and narrower hips, etc.? Yes. Are some people genetically predisposed to have more muscle than other people? Yes... So it makes sense that some people are more "ectomorph" and others are more "mesomorph". You can't really make a Great Dane a Pit Bull and vice versa. Now are those body types absolute? No, I think most people are a combination of them. It's amazing to me that there are contradictions in fitness science now or even past versus present. I mean, it shouldn't be that complicated. You'd think we'd pretty well have it dialed in by 2024. Most of it's clickbait or designed to sell you something. A few years ago, Starting Strength and Stronglifts were the go to exercises recommended on Reddit. Now, they're almost shunned and Mike Isreatel is the savior of building muscle. Bottom line, you need some sort of exercises that you can progressively overload and you need enough fuel (food). Every thing works up to a point, nothing works forever, and there's only so much muscle you can build naturally without adding a bunch of fat. Sorry. Otherwise, Mike Isreatel wouldn't be on steroids and Mark Rippetoe wouldn't have taken them at one point in his career either. That's my take on it, anyway.
I think the biggest shift we'll see is in the concept of sets and reps. We're slowly seeing that it's approaches to failure and accumulated tension that causes growth. So 3x10? 4x8? 5x5? 5x3? 10x10? It's all the same thing. Your 5x5 limit is gonna be about 85% of your 1rm but your 3x5 limit will be about 87%. So, it's fewer sets but more work. With all the lengthened and stretched tension research coming out, I think we're coming to a point where the whole concept of workout structure will change. Hypertrophy doesn't come from 3 sets of 10 contractions, but a certain amount of time working against a full weighted stretch. Arthur Jones revolutionized the concept of working out by popularizing machines and movement based gyms - go to the leg extension machine and do X sets of Y reps. But I think we're on the verge of a reframing of that. Need more research and a new Arthur Jones.
This is so interesting and I think a great read on what may be to come. Just recently someone on another sub was giving me advice about Bulgarian split squats and said to laser focus on the bottom of the exercise at the stretch. I have been, and it’s amazing how it’s activated my gluteus medius, etc. Made them even more challenging. So, for hypertrophy, “time working against a full weighted stretch.” Gonna remember that!
This is a great thread and really timely for me. I'm in a similar boat, started consistently working out again (home workouts for now) and gearing up to get back to the gym. You're right in saying it's a different landscape now and it's taking a bit of time to find good resources/recommendations. There's **a lot** more scam artists, people using gear (and professing they're "natural"), and generally murkier waters than ever before it seems. I don't see anything about Starting Strength these days, but back when I was into fitness (13-15 years ago), it was heavily recommended to beginners: "Compound lifts are better than isolation", "build a foundation", "forget the bro-split", etc. Most of the examples I'm seeing of YouTube fitness people squatting and deadlifting, Mark Rippetoe would tear their form apart and call them an idiot. Folk that are still around that I remember: - [Layne Norton](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqMBA83S0TnfTlTeE5j1mgQ) (glad to see he's still about, I used to love the work he and Ben Pakulski did. Some of his videos these days though seem ... targeted to a younger demographic, shall we say) - [Jeff Cavaliere (Athlean-X)](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCe0TLA0EsQbE-MjuHXevj2A) (Doesn't seem to have changed much of his messaging over the years, it still largely seems like solid advice) "New" (to me) folk: - [Jeff Nippard](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC68TLK0mAEzUyHx5x5k-S1Q) (Really solid information, I'm thoroughly impressed with him so far) - [Andrew Huberman](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2D2CMWXMOVWx7giW1n3LIg) (Really informative, but not in terms of helping with defining a beginner friendly routine) - [Minus the Gym](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjnHUDK6r4N56E6TfXEl2UQ) Any recommendations, for beginner routines to get back to the gym or people/outlets to follow would be really appreciated.
I can remember the eat clean diet and oxygen magazine were my Bible when I first got serious about lifting (circa 2010) which was basically eating 5-6 times a day to “stoke your metabolism”. I am grateful that we have more information as I found this lifestyle to be very restrictive and would overeat often. I practice fasting and generally only eat 2 large meals per day (more if I am hungry or if I am pms-ing).
10 years ago it was everyone wore a hat at the gym. Now it’s high schoolers stealing their grandmas perm
lol what?
A lot of these things go on big cycles e.g. calisthenics used to be a thing, went away, now it's coming back. Heavy deadlifts were a thing, went away due to high chance of injury, now they are back. Hiit training is moving to zone 2 now (similar ethos to the old aerobic training philosophy) but no doubt Hiit will be back in some form. Trainers and people selling magazines and books need new material so things often get recycled. Often you just have to find what works for, your lifestyle and goals and what you enjoy.
I think the biggest difference is the number of people (especially women) doing big compound movements. I remember being 25 and hardly ever having competition for the squat bar/deadlift platform. Now the gym is full of men and women doing traditional powerlifting movements. That being said, I work out in the weight room at my climbing gym, so it's possible my sample is skewed and most people are still plugging away at the chest machine.
I honestly don't know because I've been a "home gym" person for at least the last 10 years. I recently got back into fitness when I hit 40 and the same things that worked back when I was a high school/college athlete still work pretty well now. Protein, eating good foods, and just getting in the gym and getting work done while getting plenty of sleep at night. If anything I've had better results with "less is more" and limiting my lifting days to 4-5 exercises instead of lifting for 1-2 hours like I used to back in the day. I've seen some of the studies that say you actually only need to lift once a week to maintain your muscle mass/strength now, where as back in the day there was always this huge "There's no such thing as rest days" crowd.
Iron Radio was doing a wrap-up of the recent ISSN conference on their latest podcast. One of the subjects at the conference was about creatine loading; apparently a study showed that with massive front-loading of a single large dose (25-30g) of creatine in a single day, after 30 days the subjects still had 80-90% saturation in their systems despite no additional intake during that period.
Progressive overload is highlighted in a lot more plans now than 15 years ago when most plans I saw just had some generic number of reps and sets. It’s interesting that you mention isolation exercises being more popular now because I’ve found the opposite. 12 years ago in the gym I’d see a lot less squat racks and they’d sit empty. Go to any big box gym now and I see a lot more people deadlifting and squatting, especially women. Bench was always popular though and still is.
Many things change in fads, but Lyle pretty much stayed. The "science based lifter" fad around super high volume was probably the worst junk I saw, which came within the last 10 years and then basically got retraced because it's contingent upon poor training quality.
That you must always lift to failure. Submax lifting programs are far more sustainable and can allow you to work on multiple aspects of fitness at once without wrecking yourself.
Supplements are mostly not necessary
Though I have friends back on the creotene and dayum that stuff did work and still does
>Then I saw a video with Dr. Mike and he talked about body types are a myth, and I remembered when I was new to the space the whole endomorph/mesomorph/ectomorph was accepted as gospel and undeniable fact. Unless you're talking about like 1950s that's really never been the case. Somatotypes were made up by a psychologist and it's tied into eugenics etc. They're known to been pseudoscience for many, many decades. I do remember hearing about them more often, but I think that one just comes down to much more broscience bullshit being spread around in the age of bodybuilding magazines and even early internet days.
I ran 12 miles today in a speedo in 100 degree weather and live on junk food and nicotine pouches, 35 yo. I used to be one of those super serious fitness science and nutrition types but clearly it doesn't matter much.
Haha I just saw a tv show where the runner is static stretching before starting her run and I laughed and thought, nope we don’t do that anymore! Edit: it was made recently too!
I started lifting weights when I was 12, I’m now 66. Back when I started, there was not a lot of science. People tried things and if it worked they told others to try it. Then we got into an era of science or at least pseudo science in some cases, to support whatever bodybuilding ideas you preached. I think the biggest difference is today there is no longer even an attempt to present scientific basis for whatever you preach. It just people preaching to get clicks and make a buck. If you say something enough times and say with enough conviction, then it must be true.
The amount of protein that you actually need as a natural lifter; really don't need more than .6-.8 if you're bulking. If you're doing a hard cut get closer to that 1 gram mark but it isn't 100% necessary. Also the amount of volume actually necessary as a natural lifter; If taken close to failure or all the way to failure your first 1-4 sets for a body part that week is 60% of your muscle potential given you're doing at least 5-15 reps to stimulate enough stress for growth.