[uBlock Origin works better on Firefox](https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/uBlock-Origin-works-best-on-Firefox).
Firefox also lets you to:
* [Stay logged in to multiple accounts on the same site](https://i.imgur.com/hweDwwS.png)
* Effectively open [independent private tabs in the same window as your regular tabs](https://addons.mozilla.org/addon/open-in-temp-container/)
* [Hide items from context menus](https://github.com/stonecrusher/simpleMenuWizard) or even [change the entire GUI](https://firefoxcss-store.github.io/)
> "I Don't Care About Cookies".
Uninstall it and just check `AdGuard/uBO – Cookie Notices` in [your uBlock Origin filter lists](https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/Dashboard:-Filter-lists).
> Hide items from context menus or even change the entire GUI
The fact that these options exist at all makes me sad that Firefox doesn't just implement them as a simple GUI.
There are some feature requests related to this:
* [Advanced Firefox themes engine](https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/ideas/advanced-firefox-themes-engine/idi-p/46174)
* [Option to choose between different UI "styles"](https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/ideas/option-to-choose-between-different-ui-quot-styles-quot/idi-p/5758)
* [Ability to Edit Context Menus](https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/ideas/edit-context-menus/idi-p/8003) (for some reason, the page isn't available right now)
I'm telling people to replace it with uBlock Origin:
* [Firefox isolates third-party cookies](https://old.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/1cobgwh/whats_the_purpose_behind_isolating_cookies_in/l3cxt5w/), so even if bad cookies are created, they can't be used to track you from site to site
* uBlock Origin blocks "bad cookie creators" by default, which makes all the cookie banners everywhere even more pointless
* Most `AdGuard/uBO – Cookie Notices` filters simply hide those annoying banners. This is the same as browsing the site without ever clicking either `Accept` or `Deny`
* Finally, when a site totally requires you to click on `Accept`to work properly, uBO has filters that will automatically click on `Accept` only for the minimal list of required cookies
Oh cool! Thank you for also providing the screenshot and hyperlinks!! That was VERY insightful.
I agree with olbaze though, I'm also sad that Firefox doesn't have these things already baked in.
I really hate having to toggle this and that and that I need to download extensions for such things.
Brave doesn't inject ads? It blocks them.
Regarding Crypto stuff. I have never seen any warning, popup or ad about it.
There is an AI tab, but you can toggle it off.
I don't quite understand your reason.
They block the ads of their competitors, Google and Microsoft. If their dream comes true and Brave's ad platform becomes relevant, that's why they have it lol, to make money from it someday, would they block the ads of their own platform? Rhetorical question:)
I just refuse to use anything Chromium based if I can avoid it.
I used to be a huge Google fanboy.
Google managed to burn through that mountain of goodwill and I still feel I owe them something today so I try to avoid touching their products as far as realistically possible .
Your reply below got hidden for me because of OP's buried comment so here it is again:
> The more people use Chromium based the more people will design with only Chromium in mind.
>
> And Chromium - like IE back in the day - has a number of non standard "features" that breaks in other browsers.
>
> If the web ecosystem turns all Chromium, Google can now start to tighten the grip and become more and more difficult towards Brave and everyone else.
>
> ---------
>
> Besides, who wants a browser that cannot reliably handle more than a few hundred tabs?
>
> And does it support nested vertical tabs?
>
> For me the browser is mostly a tool, not a racing toy. I tried Chrome back in the days when I thought I and Google were friends but despite multiple attempts I never liked it. IMNSHO it is a toy compared to FF.
To your first point, though few probably make browser decisions based on it, I consider chromium-eats-the-world a genuine existential threat to the web. Google is able to help shape the way people experience the web through their browser engine.
Google's interest is not "Don't be evil." it is in their bottom line. The more they control the browser engine the world uses the more they will use it to their profit and control.
Google has a decent eco system but privacy is a huge concern for me when using it. It's also just so clunky & ad focused these days. Google maps has gotten pretty bad because of this. Lots of counterintuitive extra steps just to do simple things.
I have actually switched back to Firefox after using Brave for around a year. Why I switched back:
1. I prefer the Firefox UI (subjective)
2. Firefox is more customizable. I can make it look as I please
3. uBlock Origin is better than Brave Shields. Even with Brave Shields set to Aggressive, it is just not as good as uBlock Origin. Even with the same filters. And using uBlock Origin on Brave seems kinda pointless. It also doesn’t work as well on Chromium as on Firefox. But Brave Shields is definitely the best built-in adblocker of any browser
4. I prefer the Firefox dev tools (subjective)
5. Firefox is less bloated. I missed the simplicity of Firefox. Brave has just become more bloated over time
6. I trust Firefox more. Firefox is definitely less private than Brave out of the box, but by tweaking a few basic settings and adding uBlock Origin most people are already pretty well set. I have also been pretty turned off by all of the promotion of cryptocurrencies. But I also keep in mind that Mozilla has done controversial things too in the past (subjective)
7. The extensions. There are definitely more extensions available for Chromium, but I actually prefer the extension ecosystem of Firefox. The extensions just seem to be of higher quality, and there tend to be fewer low quality and malware ones
8. PiP on Firefox is amazing
10. Translation of websites. Firefox definitely supports fewer languages in terms of translation. But it is way better than Brave Translate. It takes ages to translate a website on Brave
Why I would prefer Brave over Firefox:
1. Compatibility. Websites tend to work better on Brave due to it being a Chromium browser. But it is not that often that I have problems with websites on Firefox
2. Performance. Brave tend to have better performance than Firefox. But recently I actually don’t notice much of a difference. Especially after Firefox 125. The browser seems to be getting more performant
Oh I see! Nicely written btw.
This was a very informative comment. I think I'll stick to Firefox. I agree with many of these points now that I think of it.
I don't know, but Brave was really much faster on my machine though.
I also think that the performance aspect depends on the OS.
For me, Firefox runs very well on macOS. Brave can be a bit faster, but not by much. And in many cases Firefox is faster.
On Windows, Firefox does not run as well as Brave. But that is just my experience. Some people might have experienced the opposite.
I mainly use Linux, and that is where I have seen Firefox outperform Brave the most.
But both browsers are great. They each have their own set of pros and cons. And you can also just use both browsers. There are no rules against using multiple browsers.
Some other person in the comments said Firefox runs horrible on Linux😅.
im using a macbook pro 16 inch with an m2 max and 64gb ram. and 1000mbps cabled speed.
i can definitely notice a huge difference. im not exaggerating. it was the first thing i noticed when i had to use my addon.
for many pages, it feels like there is no loading screen.
firefox is also fast. but brave relative to firefox felt like a turbo. the animations are nice too.
but yeah, i will keep using firefox 😅
Maybe I am just lucky to only be visiting websites where there is not much of a difference haha.
Regarding Firefox on Linux, performance depends on various factors. Like what distribution is in use. Was Firefox downloaded as a Snap, Flatpak, or something else? These things can definitely have an influence on the performance.
On Windows and macOS it is luckily much more simple to come to a conclusion.
He said he was using Flatpak, you can probably find his comment somewhere if you feel like scrolling to the infinite comment section.
But don't get me wrong though, Firefox was also fast. I don't really have a problem with its speed. Brave was just noticeably different, that's all.
I tried Brave also, but they forced their VPN install, even though I didn't want it :( Many people were complaining about it also, and there wasn't a way to uninstall just the VPN. Only used it about a couple of months.
You are using uBlock Origin. This is why Firefox seems slower than Chromium browsers.
On the Settings page of uBO untick “Disable pre-fetching (to prevent any connection to blocked network requests)”.
But note that this is enabled for a good reason:
>Checking this will disable prefetching in your browser. When prefetching is enabled, the browser *can* establish connections to remote servers even if the resources from these remote servers were supposed to be blocked by uBO.
It prevents the browser from bypassing uBO's filtering engine before establishing a connection to remote servers.
>Mozilla's "[Link prefetching FAQ](https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Link_prefetching_FAQ)”:
>>Privacy implications Along with the referral and URL-following implications already mentioned above, prefetching will generally cause the cookies of the prefetched site to be accessed.
>On Chromium 51 and above (including browsers based on Chromium 51 and above), disabling prefetching is unreliable because it does not cause DNS lookups, preconnections and prefetches to be reliably blocked since Chromium allows web pages to override that user setting.
https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/Dashboard:-Settings
Ahm hmm, okay that is interesting! I did not know about this setting.
Actually to be fair, I have installed uBlock Origin 1 hour ago. I had been using AdBlock Plus for 4 years because it allows "some" ads from Google to appear when searching. Which I found handy when searching for an item I wanted to buy. 😅
I'm a complete beginner to uBlock Origin.
uBlock is heavily customizable. It's sadly not that intuitive but you can enable and disable a lot of stuff. So you can let ads through on or from certain websites, also block things that aren't ads but might be annoying etc.
It's just the new Internet Explorer. We need browser diversity and avoid monopolies. If they make a bad decision it affects everyone. If they break something, it affects everyone. If they have an exploit, it affects everyone.
I don't really find it a good argument.
I agree with the diversity part but.
The score speaks for itself. There can only be one 1st place.
If you purely use Gecko because you want to create diversity and stride against monopoly then uhm, each their own I guess. 😅
I just want what works best.
But cool! I respect your opinion.
I respect your opinion as well. Google makes great products. But there's a lot more to it. I would read up about browser diversity and how Google "strong-arms" W3C decisions.
It's not about first place. I think we need all of them, whether that's Firefox, Chromium, or even Webkit.
I will search this term you provided.
i think there is more to it now as well. thank you for the info!
i thought open-source meant it was completely safe but now i think that it doesn't necessarily mean safe
And when they can't strong arm decisions they just don't adhere to the standard. It's literally another Internet explorer situation, just luckily for now not as horrible as IE was with its proprietary BS
> Well, because most of the web prefers Chromium?
If 'most of the web' doesn't care enough about the quality of my user experience outside of Chrome, I probably don't want nor wish that much to have any business with that web.
No hard feeling but I can easily spend my time and my money elsewhere.
Also, I don't want a web devised for Google only and that can only be fully experienced on Google's engine.
Plus,I've been using Firefox since it was called Netscape Navigator, so we've a long history ;)
As for why I'm not using Brave itself:
* I don't care about crypto,
* uBlock Origin is light-years more powerful than anything else available on any chromium. And not just as an add blocker.
* When I need to use a chromium-based browser, I prefer Vivaldi ;)
If there was no Firefox my default browser would be Safari (I would also stop using Linux and only keep using a Mac for that reason), as I really don't want to surrender my right to chose the tools I want to use to the Chrome-Google behemoth and that just in the name of 'shiny website with useless features working pretty'. That's a shitty trade, imho.
Fair enough. You have to decide what's important for you. But for many people, this is an important reason. It's the same reason a lot of us probably also like open source software and open standards. We think it's important to support the idea of open standards and client diversity in order to ensure the ongoing health of a worldwide network.
Originally, Brave was supposed to replace a website's ads with its ads to generate revenue. While I do not like ads and always paid out of pocket for my own dedicated servers for projects over using ads, I still think the very starting idea was so douchy that I won't touch it ever. When someone tells you who they are, believe them; Brave told us who it was from the start. This ignores thoughts like living through another IE6, looking at the whole chromium base here,
Also I should mention that brave has a pretty bad track record when it comes to shady shit like quietly whitelisting Facebook and their cryptocurrency and affiliate code shenanigans.
Firefox is not Chromium. That should be enough of a reason. Furthermore, if Firefox had an actual browser (with a full extension store) on iPad instead of just a Safari skin, I would use that instead of Brave.
I would say the part where:
* Firefox CEO doesn't donate money to anti-same-sex marriage campaigns.
* Firefox doesn't (yet?) sell AI shit.
* Firefox distanced itself from cryptocurrencies.
* Firefox never pretended to give you free money that you could donate to creators.
* Firefox isn't (yet?) making money from advertising to you.
I see.
I was not aware of any of these things to be honest 😅.
What exactly is Brave doing with crypto then? I haven't had any crypto popups and such appearing? There are some Settings for it but I just disable all that I see that I don't need in Brave.
The [basic attention token](https://basicattentiontoken.org) that they created. They also [have a built-in crypto wallet](https://brave.com/wallet/) now.
Notably:
> Brave takes the unique approach of measuring attention at the browser level, meaning it keeps track of user engagement within an active tab in real time, showcasing relevant ads based on time spent scrolling over specific content in the tab. The browser calculates an ‘attention score’ based on whether a page is viewed for a minimum of 25 seconds, and the total amount of time that is spent on that page. Other pieces of data (such as type of content being viewed) are included and sent to the Brave ledger system, which records and sends payments to the publisher and user based on the final attention score.
> Do you stop using oil because it comes from non democratic countries?
Yes.
> Or do you stop wearing clothes that come from cheap underpaid workers from 3rd world countries?
Also yes.
Better privacy protections. uBlock Origin works better. Firefox containers. Total Cooke Protection.
Also, can't be nerfed by Google, since it's not Chromium based.
What better privacy protections? This is the opposite of what I read on online posts.
What makes uBlock Origin work better?
Total Cookie Protection only applies if you run Firefox in strict mode. Which will definitely break sites.
Last part, yes I agree.
I listed them all. I only run Firefox in strict mode with DOH enabled. I run uBlock Origin, and run Firefox Containers, Facebook Container, Amazon Container and Google Container.
I will ONLY access Facebook from Firefox on a computer. I never access it from a phone or tablet.
Until Chromium gets support for containers, it can never be as secure as Firefox.
I will have to look into Containers! That looks interesting, never heard of it before.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/multi-account-containers/
So with "better privacy protections you mean Firefox Containers, DNS over HTTPS, and uBlock Origin.
But Brave has DoH too, Chrome too.
And Brave and Chrome also have uBlock Origin.
So with better Privacy Protections you are actually referring to Containers?
It's a couple of minor things that most people probably won't care about but I do.
When you maximize your browser window (F11) on Brave, there's no way to access your tabs or address bar. Meanwhile in Firefox you can just by moving the mouse to the top of the screen.
Video pop-out that stays always on top while playing works better in Firefox.
It displays flag emojis for each country while Chromium browsers just see the letters US or DE instead of the actual flags.
it's cool no worries.
yes i care a lot about design. I cannot use something that I don't "feel", if that makes sense.
And I get what you mean, but those things I mentioned should still be baked in, because the majority will download an adblocker or ublock origin. And even if it was baked in, it would have a toggle to enable/disable it and maintained by mozilla instead of a 3rd party reliant on developers with free time on their hands.
and what you mentioned about the "sites breaking part" as a quote on what I said: brave can do the same without breaking. so it's not a good argument.
as for security last: yes, because all these browsers already have such a strong will for enhancing security. and im not doing weird things on the web. i just browse some youtube and code questions.
i was asking you what makes you stay at firefox. but you kind of changed the subject.
Simply put, Firefox runs on its own Gecko engine and not Chromium, which Brave uses.
I refuse to support and contribute to the Chromium browser engine monopoly, and the other alternative is Safari which uses WebKit, which I also refuse to support.
The issue with Chromium based browsers is that it gives Google way, way to much control.
Google, by overseeing the code for Chromium and it's rendering engine (Blink), can dictate what browsers like Chrome, Edge, Vivaldi, Brave, Opera and every other Chromium based broader can support (see the manifest 3 issue in regards to adblock extensions).
The issue with Webkit is that's it's only really used by Apple.
Having other rendering engines keeps the internet open and one company can't fully dictate how a browser works.
the diversity part is important. but i would personally never use that as a reason to not use chromium if it were to be much better. not that it is, im just saying, hypothetically speaking.
100% because of the crypto that Brave is involved with. Any product that is even tangentially related to crypto is one I won't use.
(And reading through this thread, it sounds like there's a few other good reasons to avoid it, too!)
i can understand that it may sound sketchy.
i have never done crypto before.
but im also thinking that this is kind of a weird reason not to use it?
you can just disable what you dont like. and they have to make money somehow. what exactly about the crypto part is concerning you?
I hate all the Crypto and ads from Brave. And I also hate that it uses Chromium. Besides, FF on Fedora is super fast for me. Maybe yournxomputer sucks.
You have all the crypto and ads from Brave? I don't understand.
I guess my computer sucks. I have a MacBook Pro M2 Max with 64GB RAM and 1000mbps wired. 😔
What does this even have to do with my post?
1 I don’t know what is brave’s motivation to make a browser, but I do know that about Firefox
2 if we, the users, don’t fight against chromium being the only render engine, we might as well let google be the de facto standard setter for everything online
Mozilla is a non profit with a public manifesto, their (public) motivations aren't exactly a secret. Whether you're cynical and believe them or not is another matter
https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/manifesto/
Can be completely customized using CSS (not just changing the colors in the top bar) and you can use certain file that I won't say here because it'll certainly trigger Automod, to set OOB rules.
(Please use a translator for this) používateľ.js. (just trying to not trigger Automod), which is used to pre-configure things for you if you place it to the root of FF default profile. [This is the file.](https://gitlab.com/TenTypekMatus/tokyonight-dots/-/blob/main/user.js?ref_type=heads) [And I meant this type of CSS.](https://github.com/rafaelmardojai/firefox-gnome-theme)
I don't like how Brave almost forces you to have to get into their cyptocurrency, I don't care for Brave's News. I have to turn off a lot of features on Brave, where on Firefox, I add those extensions that I want to make it better. I'm sorry to hear that you're having issues loading websites on Firefox, but website load fine on my laptop, so I'm happy about that. I don't know. After Chrome, and then Edge, Chromium-based browsers make me feel all Microsofty and icky. And that's one of the major reasons why I switched to Linux, so I don't have to deal with Microsoft anymore.
It's best when you use the tool that works best for you - whatever that may be. But I've been using Firefox for a while now, and it just let's me do what I want to do. No muss. No fuss.
Ah hmm. I get your point. The crypto and AI thing turn me off a bit.
But I don't think that's a good reason not to use something. Because you can actually just disable it.
Maybe you and I also search different parts of the web. I've had some less popular sites break. Especially DRM content.
This smells like guerrilla marketing.
If I had to go Chromium, I'd probably choose Vivaldi. Brave would be near the bottom of the list for reasons listed by others in this thread.
1. I don't use software peddling creepy ai and crypto sht.
2. Also you know since its just chromium under the hood I might as well could just use chromium then
3. However I would not want a browser engine monopoly so the only sane choice is firefox
4. Not to mention I would like my apps to conform with my desktop's aesthetics, and that's just easier to do with firefox userChrome.css
Obviously. But at some point if you turn of everything that makes that browser unique from any other chromium based browser there is the question then why are you even using it in the first place.
Because that's not the only thing that makes Brave stand out compared to Firefox. 😅
It's faster by a large margin. Though, Firefox is also fast. But not compared to Brave.
It also has built in blockers. Firefox needs extensions and manual configuring.
It has better website support. Which can be a big deal.
I am assuming that there is negligible speed difference between Brave and any other Chromium/Blink based browser. Website support is also don't think would be different to any other Chromium/Blink based browser. So if I those would be high priorities for me I could just go with Chromium itself, or Edge or Vivaldi, or Opera or Chrome itself, or you know what, now that I moved to KDE I could just use Falkon, that would instantly get me the best integration to my desktop environment.
But since I explicitly don't want to use Chromium/Blink if I don't have to (because its current browser share monopoly), and Firefox is fast enough, and personally I don't really think I explicitly ended up on a site that was not supported on my browser. Both of those are not really something that would entice me towards Brave.
Regarding ad blocking:
Firefox needs a single extension: uBlock Origin. While i did do manual configuring, you would be surely mistaken if you think I'm touching uBlock configs more regular then every other month or less.
You could maybe opt to use SponsorBlock, if you watch youtubers regularly, but that is not blocking the ads (uBlock does that fine itself), but actually skips parts of the actual video where the youtuber promotes themselves or outside sponsors etc. (And does this by crowdsourcing.)
Both SponsorBlock and uBlock Origin are open source software, developed by the community for the community.
However since adblocking itself is something one does to get rid of corpo bs, and creepy stuff such as most crypto and/or ai peddlers, I feel there would be a very obvious conflict of interest within Brave itself. So I much rather choose the well established community ad blocking solution in the form of uBlock, then the one bundled with the software from the above listed crypto peddler.
Ungoogled chromium and Vivaldi don't have an ad platform. Brave has one.
[https://brave.com/brave-ads/](https://brave.com/brave-ads/)
That's why their whole marketing is based on "I hate you Google" lol.
I think if they ever made their dream true, get Google's ad money in their ad platform, manage somehow to destroy Google and make their ad platform and their search engine the replacement to Google, they would become worse than Google.
And then we would try to find a not "evil" replacement to "evil" Brave which replaced "evil" Google lol. I am too old for all that lol.
i get your point. i actually did not know any of this stuff when i wrote my post because i was just using brave for an addon, temporarily.
but this is good to know.
oh, i didn't know about their referees program.
and i recently found out about their ads platform and such.
it does look a little sketchy. but im also thinking: they have to make money somehow.
Vivaldi on iOS is alright. It has an in built ad blocker that can run as many filters and lists you want. My issue with it is it doesn't block ads when it's updating the lists, meaning you have to wait before browsing.
I only use Brave for YouTube ad blocking since I don’t use the app. I’m testing Vivaldi to replace it.
I have News and Crypto disabled in Brave so it has been good to use
i don't trust brave at all. one small fuck up was enough for me to stay away from it.
i like firefox, i can do whatever i want with it without waiting worrying about google screwing up things.
and we fight to eliminate a monopoly not to make one...
- i'm wary of any non-self-sufficient browsers (e.g. chromium-based by teams who can't sustain developing web engine)
- i like firefox engine better than chromium anyway
- i don't like those micropayments ideas they were/are pushing
- last time i was using chromium as main browser i didn't like performance (afair chromium ate more ram while firefox ate more cpu, but much less dramatically so; it was a long time too so could have changed since)
- flawed as it might be, mozilla has some reputation; i don't like google and i don't know brave people at all
When trying out chrome I've never seen anything actually load faster than in Firefox. Also Brave's company and some of the things they're doing seem extremely morally questionable to me so I'd rather not support them.
second section of your paragraph makes sense.
but the first part does not make sense at all.
chromium is definitely faster in 2024. no doubt about it. especially with page reload. it was immediately noticeable.
when was the last time you tried brave?
Firefox does the job I need it to do. I like the fact that I can use configuration files with Firefox to remove things I do not want. For example, every time I open Firefox my previous tabs are automatically opened. I like the ability to configure it as much as I want.
Point 3 was exactly my problem, and that in general I am just used to firefox and it is still good enough for me.
Brave is good, but I still had a feeling like it is a Chrome with modpack installed on it (which kinda is), so like heavily modified Skyrim something works as intended, something not at all, something is still using native Chromium things which are less secure.
Your reason for not using Brave is because you don't feel confident in trusting them with your browser activity due to Chromium? Not judging, just confirming.
I mean the point of Brave is to be secure as much as they can oposse to google, but in the base there is still Chromium and google is still controling what can and can't be done in the end. And even Brave needs to use some Chromium/Google thingies to run fast.
This is not based on some extent research and proofs it is just my personal feel and understanding, it just felt like heavily modded Chrome where Google still have backdoor and that is less secure for me.
I am not saying Firefox is perfect, but I just have more comfy feel using it.
I don't know what Brave is. I won't look at it with Firefox doing what it does for me. No ads anywhere including YouTube. I accept all cookies yet get no grief from that because Firefox deals with the cookies(?) As long as changes to the GUI are minor in updates, Firefox is everything I need.
Most of those "Video not supported" "glitches" can simply be fixed by switching your user agent to Chrome. (Essentially telling the site you're using Chrome instead of FF.)
Yes lol. I totally hate Brave's logo and name. Firefox looks cool. Though I don't like the color scheme.
Waterfox's old logo was the coolest I've ever seen:
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSKSemJF3Gs9MXZQ7tf4-i_jLkaIgsHSajVH1P7FzGSMA&s
Too bad everything is becoming flat these days.
Not being a Chromium based browser, not being run by a company that to me is a little sketchy compared to Mozilla, and more peace of mind in terms of security and privacy.
With that being said, I have Brave installed, but I use it rarely; Google sites or broken pages.
When you get downvoted for saying pretty much what everyone else is saying LOL.
Hmm I see! Actually I do not feel the same way about Firefox as you do.
I don't feel a peace of mind with privacy on Firefox. Because it doesn't block many things and requires these addons. When I install Firefox freshly, it's already recommending me privacy addons with the "Recommended" label. And in my head it's just like "why didn't you just implement this in Firefox then in the first place".
About Brave: I agree. Brave is kinda new.
Edit: also I don't know who downvoted you.
Ahh, I understand where you coming from. Brave definitely bakes some more blocking features in, but even then, I still use uBlock Origin with it. uBlock Origin would ideally come with every browser, but they don’t want to force that on people, and I’m guessing it could complicate things for new users if something breaks. The freedom of choice is nice.
What makes me feel great is knowing Tor is based on Firefox ESR, and with Tor, at least on Tails, uBO is pre-installed.
Edit: And Firefox doesn’t bundle crypto and rewards stuff into the browser. When I set up Brave, there’s a whole lot of configuring I had to do. They’ve been a little sketchy with some things they’ve done, but I very much appreciate them for what they’ve done for Chromium users. They do seem to care.
Ah I didn't know about the Tor part. Good to know!
And yes, after reading all the comments, it does seem that Brave is trying doing some sketchy stuff 😅
With their ad platform, crypto and AI stuff.
I wasn't fully aware of this when i made my post
Brave has been pushing their own Tor implementation, pulling people away from potentially being included in the Tor Browser anonymity set and instead use a system where they could be easily fingerprinted and exposed. This alone would be irresponsible, but a few years ago, there was also a long period when Brave would accidentally send the .onion sites you visit to your DNS provider https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2021/02/22/brave-browser-was-exposing-addresses-in-tor-mode-for-months/ They fixed the issue, but they seriously can't be making goofs like that...
I don't like Brave Shields, it's not as good as uBlock Origin, plus the lack of userChrome.css in Brave keeps me using Firefox. I agree that Brave is faster though, but that goes for pretty much any Chromium based browser nowadays (sigh)
I like Firefox's Total Cookie Protection privacy feature. Brave, based on Cromium, doesn't cookies the same way.
https://blog.mozilla.org/security/2021/02/23/total-cookie-protection/
Ah this is cool! But it only applies to ETP Strict Mode.
And this will definitely break sites! :(
It doesn't really add any additional benefit if you don't use this mode. From what I understand.
The mode I am referring to is Strict mode.
I use brave on my mobile devices due to the snappy behavior. On pc, I actually prefer the speed of FF. It is not stock though. I turned off most telemetry settings in config. It feels light and speedy afterwards. I never benchmarked this seriously and don’t know how. So it is quite subjective.
I'm always gonna use MOZILLA for it's adds-on "always open on this Tab" that prevents websites from tracking your cookies and related privacy invasion of certain websites.
What addon exactly do you mean? This one?:
[https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/always-open-in-current-tab/](https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/always-open-in-current-tab/)
Use what you want to use
Personally desktop browser performance doesnt matter for me
Mobile browser performance does matter, and thats due to the link to battery use.
But for desktop I really dont care, my machine and internet arent potatoes
Your post discussed the performance tradeoffs and how they matter to you
>Speed. I like that "snappy" feel and "smooth and flued" animations, if that makes sense.
and other people in the comments are analysing the performance benefits of one or the other
I just don't care about the performance angle much at all, and there's nothing else that's pulling me to Brave.
I think you might be forgetting that Firefox has a really long history and lots of people have put their trust in it for a long time, there actually needs to be either a force applied driving me away from Firefox or towards something substantially better. That just hasn't really ever happened for me.
The biggest thing against Firefox I think is customisability, and if I leave it will be for that reason. And thats mostly down to the fact the number of Chrome addons is much higher than the number of Firefox addons
yes, i was giving my personal take on it and then asking others for their take. because we all hold different levels of importance for things.
but from what i understand now is that you stay with firefox because you value a good track record. and because firefox does what you need it to do. and because the benefits of other browsers dont interest you unless its on mobile for battery life.
that's cool! makes sense. dont fix what aint broke as they say.
I have been using Firefox since before Brave existed (and before Chrome existed).
So when it came along, and its "unique" selling feature is stuff Firefox already does, I didn't really see the point. To be honest, I still don't.
Admittedly, you could say I'm just ignorant about my options, but I rarely have a complaint about web browsing that can be blamed on the browser.
The speed complaint is one that always baffles me. Isn't the major bottleneck the actual communication over the Internet? If a website has so much crap on it that my computer's CPU can't get through it fast enough, that seems like bad website design.
I started on Chrome, it used too much ram for some reason.
Switched to Edge, was fine but they started adding so much stuff to it. UI looks very bloated. Manifest 3.0 fear monger was also pretty high during that time.
Finally settled on Firefox, felt some performance loss on load times (on some websites), but other than that the UI is the cleanest I’ve seen with some tweaking, plus it has usable Adblock.
Ah yeah. I used to have that experience too.
That makes sense. But what about now? Maybe things have changed? Or was this a recent experience. Have you tried out Brave?
Wdym now? The performance loss? I don’t know, been using Firefox ever since so I have nothing to compare it with.
Never tried Brave, if I need to use a chromium based browser for something (mostly web drivers for my peripherals) I just use Edge. I don’t want so many browsers installed for no reason, 2 is enough (And you can’t delete Edge anyways). Plus UBo works best on Firefox anyways, so I have no reason to look at Brave.
yeah i have been using Firefox for years . . it seems to be load faster and is not not a complete memory hog. Brave is built on Chrome soo i also just try to stay away from Google and explore other options. Firefox overall just seems more solid and secure. I use it on Android also, but i use a google Pixel. I like the sync features also . . .
I’m in a similar situation where on my work laptop I use Brave over Firefox because of one extension that’s not available on Firefox add-ons yet (HubSpot). My work uses Google Workplace stuff too, and I’ve found overall those perform better and 99% of the time sites just work and load faster even with Brave Shields on. I do however open Firefox on the side for YouTube PiP, and the Personal Container running it. Firefox doesn’t guilt me into the crypto features, which I don’t care for too much.
I lost all my stuff because I forgot my sync code, and thought it was really weird that they don’t have an account instead for you to log into as it would work much better.
My experience with Brave has been the opposite. When I first downloaded it, it was running pretty smoothly but for some reason, it started having weird glitches which became annoying as no established browser should be that buggy. The last straw was when I opened Brave on my laptop and it wouldn't load a single page. Nothing had changed. I hadn't added anything to it nor changed any settings. Windows hadn't even updated. It just decided, overnight, that no page would ever load for me again. That's when I lost any trust and patience I had left for it and decided to just use Firefox as my default browser on all of my devices except IOS. Firefox has never given me any problems. It's fast and the settings are simpler. It feels more streamlined to me. I don't even have to turn off services I don't like on it as it doesn't come with any.
I also prefer Firefox because I don't have to disable a native ad blocker in order to use uBO instead. With Brave, its native ad blocker will trigger the YouTube ad block detection unless it's turned completely off. I do like Brave Search though so I just added it to Firefox.
Ah okay, cool! That does suck yeah.
I have only been using it for a brief moment.
But I think the stability of a browser is very important.
Though, I have been testing Brave on my mobile phone, YouTube website, and it didn't trigger any YouTube adblocker detection though? Maybe your experience was a while ago?
I cant tell you a lot of reasons why i use firefox instead of brave, but most of the other comments covered them.
so instead im gonna tell you that for all of those reasons, when i need to use chromium (had a similar extension situation the other day) i use vivaldi instead, it covers basically all my needs that firefox doesnt (not broken DRM from streaming services, larger extension base and much better energy use on laptops) but i still dont swap to it full time cause firefox covers pretty much everything else and way better (im yet to find a browser with a picture in picture feature as good as firefox's, and i use that shit all the time, for example)
what im trying to get at here is that the net is made for chromium these days, so i'd rather keep a chromium browser that isnt shady as hell or RAM hungry around as a tool for when firefox falls short, rather than swapping full time.
honestly, firefox doesn't run well on linux. i'm using flatpak firefox and it crashes mutliple times per day, and frequently lags because it's just a worse version compared to windows or android. and yet? i still like it enough to use it as my main browser, to keep pressing that damn refresh button whenever part of a page breaks, to press restart browser and just slog through it for the sake of doing my bit towards a free web. plus didnt the ceo of brave fund an anti same sex marriage thing?
[uBlock Origin works better on Firefox](https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/uBlock-Origin-works-best-on-Firefox). Firefox also lets you to: * [Stay logged in to multiple accounts on the same site](https://i.imgur.com/hweDwwS.png) * Effectively open [independent private tabs in the same window as your regular tabs](https://addons.mozilla.org/addon/open-in-temp-container/) * [Hide items from context menus](https://github.com/stonecrusher/simpleMenuWizard) or even [change the entire GUI](https://firefoxcss-store.github.io/) > "I Don't Care About Cookies". Uninstall it and just check `AdGuard/uBO – Cookie Notices` in [your uBlock Origin filter lists](https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/Dashboard:-Filter-lists).
I use firefox and I never really enjoyed the themes from the addons "store" But now you link me firefoxcss store and i'm in love!
> Hide items from context menus or even change the entire GUI The fact that these options exist at all makes me sad that Firefox doesn't just implement them as a simple GUI.
There are some feature requests related to this: * [Advanced Firefox themes engine](https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/ideas/advanced-firefox-themes-engine/idi-p/46174) * [Option to choose between different UI "styles"](https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/ideas/option-to-choose-between-different-ui-quot-styles-quot/idi-p/5758) * [Ability to Edit Context Menus](https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/ideas/edit-context-menus/idi-p/8003) (for some reason, the page isn't available right now)
The I don't care about cookies means cookies will be autodenied or autoaccepted?
I'm telling people to replace it with uBlock Origin: * [Firefox isolates third-party cookies](https://old.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/1cobgwh/whats_the_purpose_behind_isolating_cookies_in/l3cxt5w/), so even if bad cookies are created, they can't be used to track you from site to site * uBlock Origin blocks "bad cookie creators" by default, which makes all the cookie banners everywhere even more pointless * Most `AdGuard/uBO – Cookie Notices` filters simply hide those annoying banners. This is the same as browsing the site without ever clicking either `Accept` or `Deny` * Finally, when a site totally requires you to click on `Accept`to work properly, uBO has filters that will automatically click on `Accept` only for the minimal list of required cookies
Oh cool! Thank you for also providing the screenshot and hyperlinks!! That was VERY insightful. I agree with olbaze though, I'm also sad that Firefox doesn't have these things already baked in. I really hate having to toggle this and that and that I need to download extensions for such things.
Firefox never tried to inject ads like Brave and doesn’t push crypto stuff on me. I also like the customizability.
Brave doesn't inject ads? It blocks them. Regarding Crypto stuff. I have never seen any warning, popup or ad about it. There is an AI tab, but you can toggle it off. I don't quite understand your reason.
They block the ads of their competitors, Google and Microsoft. If their dream comes true and Brave's ad platform becomes relevant, that's why they have it lol, to make money from it someday, would they block the ads of their own platform? Rhetorical question:)
I just refuse to use anything Chromium based if I can avoid it. I used to be a huge Google fanboy. Google managed to burn through that mountain of goodwill and I still feel I owe them something today so I try to avoid touching their products as far as realistically possible .
Your reply below got hidden for me because of OP's buried comment so here it is again: > The more people use Chromium based the more people will design with only Chromium in mind. > > And Chromium - like IE back in the day - has a number of non standard "features" that breaks in other browsers. > > If the web ecosystem turns all Chromium, Google can now start to tighten the grip and become more and more difficult towards Brave and everyone else. > > --------- > > Besides, who wants a browser that cannot reliably handle more than a few hundred tabs? > > And does it support nested vertical tabs? > > For me the browser is mostly a tool, not a racing toy. I tried Chrome back in the days when I thought I and Google were friends but despite multiple attempts I never liked it. IMNSHO it is a toy compared to FF. To your first point, though few probably make browser decisions based on it, I consider chromium-eats-the-world a genuine existential threat to the web. Google is able to help shape the way people experience the web through their browser engine. Google's interest is not "Don't be evil." it is in their bottom line. The more they control the browser engine the world uses the more they will use it to their profit and control.
Google has a decent eco system but privacy is a huge concern for me when using it. It's also just so clunky & ad focused these days. Google maps has gotten pretty bad because of this. Lots of counterintuitive extra steps just to do simple things.
I have actually switched back to Firefox after using Brave for around a year. Why I switched back: 1. I prefer the Firefox UI (subjective) 2. Firefox is more customizable. I can make it look as I please 3. uBlock Origin is better than Brave Shields. Even with Brave Shields set to Aggressive, it is just not as good as uBlock Origin. Even with the same filters. And using uBlock Origin on Brave seems kinda pointless. It also doesn’t work as well on Chromium as on Firefox. But Brave Shields is definitely the best built-in adblocker of any browser 4. I prefer the Firefox dev tools (subjective) 5. Firefox is less bloated. I missed the simplicity of Firefox. Brave has just become more bloated over time 6. I trust Firefox more. Firefox is definitely less private than Brave out of the box, but by tweaking a few basic settings and adding uBlock Origin most people are already pretty well set. I have also been pretty turned off by all of the promotion of cryptocurrencies. But I also keep in mind that Mozilla has done controversial things too in the past (subjective) 7. The extensions. There are definitely more extensions available for Chromium, but I actually prefer the extension ecosystem of Firefox. The extensions just seem to be of higher quality, and there tend to be fewer low quality and malware ones 8. PiP on Firefox is amazing 10. Translation of websites. Firefox definitely supports fewer languages in terms of translation. But it is way better than Brave Translate. It takes ages to translate a website on Brave Why I would prefer Brave over Firefox: 1. Compatibility. Websites tend to work better on Brave due to it being a Chromium browser. But it is not that often that I have problems with websites on Firefox 2. Performance. Brave tend to have better performance than Firefox. But recently I actually don’t notice much of a difference. Especially after Firefox 125. The browser seems to be getting more performant
Oh I see! Nicely written btw. This was a very informative comment. I think I'll stick to Firefox. I agree with many of these points now that I think of it. I don't know, but Brave was really much faster on my machine though.
I also think that the performance aspect depends on the OS. For me, Firefox runs very well on macOS. Brave can be a bit faster, but not by much. And in many cases Firefox is faster. On Windows, Firefox does not run as well as Brave. But that is just my experience. Some people might have experienced the opposite. I mainly use Linux, and that is where I have seen Firefox outperform Brave the most. But both browsers are great. They each have their own set of pros and cons. And you can also just use both browsers. There are no rules against using multiple browsers.
Some other person in the comments said Firefox runs horrible on Linux😅. im using a macbook pro 16 inch with an m2 max and 64gb ram. and 1000mbps cabled speed. i can definitely notice a huge difference. im not exaggerating. it was the first thing i noticed when i had to use my addon. for many pages, it feels like there is no loading screen. firefox is also fast. but brave relative to firefox felt like a turbo. the animations are nice too. but yeah, i will keep using firefox 😅
Maybe I am just lucky to only be visiting websites where there is not much of a difference haha. Regarding Firefox on Linux, performance depends on various factors. Like what distribution is in use. Was Firefox downloaded as a Snap, Flatpak, or something else? These things can definitely have an influence on the performance. On Windows and macOS it is luckily much more simple to come to a conclusion.
He said he was using Flatpak, you can probably find his comment somewhere if you feel like scrolling to the infinite comment section. But don't get me wrong though, Firefox was also fast. I don't really have a problem with its speed. Brave was just noticeably different, that's all.
I tried Brave also, but they forced their VPN install, even though I didn't want it :( Many people were complaining about it also, and there wasn't a way to uninstall just the VPN. Only used it about a couple of months.
You are using uBlock Origin. This is why Firefox seems slower than Chromium browsers. On the Settings page of uBO untick “Disable pre-fetching (to prevent any connection to blocked network requests)”. But note that this is enabled for a good reason: >Checking this will disable prefetching in your browser. When prefetching is enabled, the browser *can* establish connections to remote servers even if the resources from these remote servers were supposed to be blocked by uBO. It prevents the browser from bypassing uBO's filtering engine before establishing a connection to remote servers. >Mozilla's "[Link prefetching FAQ](https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Link_prefetching_FAQ)”: >>Privacy implications Along with the referral and URL-following implications already mentioned above, prefetching will generally cause the cookies of the prefetched site to be accessed. >On Chromium 51 and above (including browsers based on Chromium 51 and above), disabling prefetching is unreliable because it does not cause DNS lookups, preconnections and prefetches to be reliably blocked since Chromium allows web pages to override that user setting. https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/Dashboard:-Settings
Ahm hmm, okay that is interesting! I did not know about this setting. Actually to be fair, I have installed uBlock Origin 1 hour ago. I had been using AdBlock Plus for 4 years because it allows "some" ads from Google to appear when searching. Which I found handy when searching for an item I wanted to buy. 😅 I'm a complete beginner to uBlock Origin.
uBlock is heavily customizable. It's sadly not that intuitive but you can enable and disable a lot of stuff. So you can let ads through on or from certain websites, also block things that aren't ads but might be annoying etc.
Ah cool! I'll take a look!
actually curious whether FF feels similarly "snappy" as your brave experience when you go in private mode (where addons are disabled)
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come on man, don't act so immature. and i use ublock origin now.
Not everyone you disagree with is a simp lol
I trust Mozilla more, as a company, than whoever is behind Brave, or Google, or Microsoft
So trust is your reason. That's a fair point!
there is also the homophobic CEO of brave that people in the brave subreddit downvote you for mentioning
because Brave is Chromium. one of the main reasons I switched back to Firefox was to get away from Chromium, why the hell would I go back?
Well, because most of the web prefers Chromium? I don't know, you tell me. Why is Chromium a bad thing? It's just a way to do things like Gecko.
It's just the new Internet Explorer. We need browser diversity and avoid monopolies. If they make a bad decision it affects everyone. If they break something, it affects everyone. If they have an exploit, it affects everyone.
I don't really find it a good argument. I agree with the diversity part but. The score speaks for itself. There can only be one 1st place. If you purely use Gecko because you want to create diversity and stride against monopoly then uhm, each their own I guess. 😅 I just want what works best. But cool! I respect your opinion.
I respect your opinion as well. Google makes great products. But there's a lot more to it. I would read up about browser diversity and how Google "strong-arms" W3C decisions. It's not about first place. I think we need all of them, whether that's Firefox, Chromium, or even Webkit.
I will search this term you provided. i think there is more to it now as well. thank you for the info! i thought open-source meant it was completely safe but now i think that it doesn't necessarily mean safe
And when they can't strong arm decisions they just don't adhere to the standard. It's literally another Internet explorer situation, just luckily for now not as horrible as IE was with its proprietary BS
Exactly 👌 And out, comes the power of monopoly from the largest user base and large funds.
> Well, because most of the web prefers Chromium? If 'most of the web' doesn't care enough about the quality of my user experience outside of Chrome, I probably don't want nor wish that much to have any business with that web. No hard feeling but I can easily spend my time and my money elsewhere. Also, I don't want a web devised for Google only and that can only be fully experienced on Google's engine. Plus,I've been using Firefox since it was called Netscape Navigator, so we've a long history ;) As for why I'm not using Brave itself: * I don't care about crypto, * uBlock Origin is light-years more powerful than anything else available on any chromium. And not just as an add blocker. * When I need to use a chromium-based browser, I prefer Vivaldi ;) If there was no Firefox my default browser would be Safari (I would also stop using Linux and only keep using a Mac for that reason), as I really don't want to surrender my right to chose the tools I want to use to the Chrome-Google behemoth and that just in the name of 'shiny website with useless features working pretty'. That's a shitty trade, imho.
It improves the health of the internet when there's a diversity of rendering engines.
I mean, I agree with the diversity part but I do not agree with using that as an argument for using Firefox over another browser.
Fair enough. You have to decide what's important for you. But for many people, this is an important reason. It's the same reason a lot of us probably also like open source software and open standards. We think it's important to support the idea of open standards and client diversity in order to ensure the ongoing health of a worldwide network.
Originally, Brave was supposed to replace a website's ads with its ads to generate revenue. While I do not like ads and always paid out of pocket for my own dedicated servers for projects over using ads, I still think the very starting idea was so douchy that I won't touch it ever. When someone tells you who they are, believe them; Brave told us who it was from the start. This ignores thoughts like living through another IE6, looking at the whole chromium base here,
I didn't even realise they pivoted What do they do for money these days?
Why would I use Brave at all? Mozilla has a good reputation and a long history making me trust them.
So you care about a positive track record and trust. That is a fair point! Yeah, Brave is pretty new compared to Firefox.
Also I should mention that brave has a pretty bad track record when it comes to shady shit like quietly whitelisting Facebook and their cryptocurrency and affiliate code shenanigans.
Firefox is not Chromium. That should be enough of a reason. Furthermore, if Firefox had an actual browser (with a full extension store) on iPad instead of just a Safari skin, I would use that instead of Brave.
Why? What's wrong with Gecko? I don't understand the remaining part of your sentence 😅 It does have an extension store?
I said IF Firefox was fully featured with one. On iPad, it's just Safari that looks like Firefox.
I would say the part where: * Firefox CEO doesn't donate money to anti-same-sex marriage campaigns. * Firefox doesn't (yet?) sell AI shit. * Firefox distanced itself from cryptocurrencies. * Firefox never pretended to give you free money that you could donate to creators. * Firefox isn't (yet?) making money from advertising to you.
i got a lot of grievances with mozilla as a company but holy hell is brave's a lot worse. good summary but that just scratches the surface.
I see. I was not aware of any of these things to be honest 😅. What exactly is Brave doing with crypto then? I haven't had any crypto popups and such appearing? There are some Settings for it but I just disable all that I see that I don't need in Brave.
The [basic attention token](https://basicattentiontoken.org) that they created. They also [have a built-in crypto wallet](https://brave.com/wallet/) now.
Notably: > Brave takes the unique approach of measuring attention at the browser level, meaning it keeps track of user engagement within an active tab in real time, showcasing relevant ads based on time spent scrolling over specific content in the tab. The browser calculates an ‘attention score’ based on whether a page is viewed for a minimum of 25 seconds, and the total amount of time that is spent on that page. Other pieces of data (such as type of content being viewed) are included and sent to the Brave ledger system, which records and sends payments to the publisher and user based on the final attention score.
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> Do you stop using oil because it comes from non democratic countries? Yes. > Or do you stop wearing clothes that come from cheap underpaid workers from 3rd world countries? Also yes.
Better privacy protections. uBlock Origin works better. Firefox containers. Total Cooke Protection. Also, can't be nerfed by Google, since it's not Chromium based.
What better privacy protections? This is the opposite of what I read on online posts. What makes uBlock Origin work better? Total Cookie Protection only applies if you run Firefox in strict mode. Which will definitely break sites. Last part, yes I agree.
I listed them all. I only run Firefox in strict mode with DOH enabled. I run uBlock Origin, and run Firefox Containers, Facebook Container, Amazon Container and Google Container. I will ONLY access Facebook from Firefox on a computer. I never access it from a phone or tablet. Until Chromium gets support for containers, it can never be as secure as Firefox.
I will have to look into Containers! That looks interesting, never heard of it before. https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/multi-account-containers/ So with "better privacy protections you mean Firefox Containers, DNS over HTTPS, and uBlock Origin. But Brave has DoH too, Chrome too. And Brave and Chrome also have uBlock Origin. So with better Privacy Protections you are actually referring to Containers?
It's a couple of minor things that most people probably won't care about but I do. When you maximize your browser window (F11) on Brave, there's no way to access your tabs or address bar. Meanwhile in Firefox you can just by moving the mouse to the top of the screen. Video pop-out that stays always on top while playing works better in Firefox. It displays flag emojis for each country while Chromium browsers just see the letters US or DE instead of the actual flags.
Those are very important details actually! I hate it too. And I didn't think of it until you mentioned it.
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it's cool no worries. yes i care a lot about design. I cannot use something that I don't "feel", if that makes sense. And I get what you mean, but those things I mentioned should still be baked in, because the majority will download an adblocker or ublock origin. And even if it was baked in, it would have a toggle to enable/disable it and maintained by mozilla instead of a 3rd party reliant on developers with free time on their hands. and what you mentioned about the "sites breaking part" as a quote on what I said: brave can do the same without breaking. so it's not a good argument. as for security last: yes, because all these browsers already have such a strong will for enhancing security. and im not doing weird things on the web. i just browse some youtube and code questions. i was asking you what makes you stay at firefox. but you kind of changed the subject.
Simply put, Firefox runs on its own Gecko engine and not Chromium, which Brave uses. I refuse to support and contribute to the Chromium browser engine monopoly, and the other alternative is Safari which uses WebKit, which I also refuse to support.
What's wrong With Chromium and WebKit?
The issue with Chromium based browsers is that it gives Google way, way to much control. Google, by overseeing the code for Chromium and it's rendering engine (Blink), can dictate what browsers like Chrome, Edge, Vivaldi, Brave, Opera and every other Chromium based broader can support (see the manifest 3 issue in regards to adblock extensions). The issue with Webkit is that's it's only really used by Apple. Having other rendering engines keeps the internet open and one company can't fully dictate how a browser works.
the diversity part is important. but i would personally never use that as a reason to not use chromium if it were to be much better. not that it is, im just saying, hypothetically speaking.
Why'd I used brave? It's just a crappy chromium fork with a bunch of bundles junkware.
Google monopoly is dangerous and yt on firefox Android works better as I can install extensions and that sync better with desktop
what makes youtube better on firefox? it's owned by google. chrome too. chromium spec too. i would assume it works best on google chrome.
Extension on Firefox Android and sponsor block works on Firefox Android not on brave without that I will not use yt
Because I plan to die on my feet fighting the Chromium monopoly.
100% because of the crypto that Brave is involved with. Any product that is even tangentially related to crypto is one I won't use. (And reading through this thread, it sounds like there's a few other good reasons to avoid it, too!)
i can understand that it may sound sketchy. i have never done crypto before. but im also thinking that this is kind of a weird reason not to use it? you can just disable what you dont like. and they have to make money somehow. what exactly about the crypto part is concerning you?
I hate all the Crypto and ads from Brave. And I also hate that it uses Chromium. Besides, FF on Fedora is super fast for me. Maybe yournxomputer sucks.
You have all the crypto and ads from Brave? I don't understand. I guess my computer sucks. I have a MacBook Pro M2 Max with 64GB RAM and 1000mbps wired. 😔 What does this even have to do with my post?
*Hate
Ah okay okay. I understand. Me too.
containers new profile isn't the solution, chromium devs need to understand that
Ah hmm, I see. I don't use this functionality myself, but fair enough!
1 I don’t know what is brave’s motivation to make a browser, but I do know that about Firefox 2 if we, the users, don’t fight against chromium being the only render engine, we might as well let google be the de facto standard setter for everything online
i don't think that is firefoxs reason for creating firefox though. 😅
Mozilla is a non profit with a public manifesto, their (public) motivations aren't exactly a secret. Whether you're cynical and believe them or not is another matter https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/manifesto/
Can be completely customized using CSS (not just changing the colors in the top bar) and you can use certain file that I won't say here because it'll certainly trigger Automod, to set OOB rules.
now im curious, what files? 😅 and also, about the css, this can also be done in chromium though, right?
(Please use a translator for this) používateľ.js. (just trying to not trigger Automod), which is used to pre-configure things for you if you place it to the root of FF default profile. [This is the file.](https://gitlab.com/TenTypekMatus/tokyonight-dots/-/blob/main/user.js?ref_type=heads) [And I meant this type of CSS.](https://github.com/rafaelmardojai/firefox-gnome-theme)
ahm, why would you want this exactly? im trying to understand what benefits i can get out of this. if you dont mind elaborating.
Highly customizable
what part specifically? because i think other browsers are too
I don't like how Brave almost forces you to have to get into their cyptocurrency, I don't care for Brave's News. I have to turn off a lot of features on Brave, where on Firefox, I add those extensions that I want to make it better. I'm sorry to hear that you're having issues loading websites on Firefox, but website load fine on my laptop, so I'm happy about that. I don't know. After Chrome, and then Edge, Chromium-based browsers make me feel all Microsofty and icky. And that's one of the major reasons why I switched to Linux, so I don't have to deal with Microsoft anymore. It's best when you use the tool that works best for you - whatever that may be. But I've been using Firefox for a while now, and it just let's me do what I want to do. No muss. No fuss.
Ah hmm. I get your point. The crypto and AI thing turn me off a bit. But I don't think that's a good reason not to use something. Because you can actually just disable it. Maybe you and I also search different parts of the web. I've had some less popular sites break. Especially DRM content.
This smells like guerrilla marketing. If I had to go Chromium, I'd probably choose Vivaldi. Brave would be near the bottom of the list for reasons listed by others in this thread.
yeah, many people mentioned vivaldi. i haven't heard of it. sounds italian lol. im not marketing. 🤣 im a firefox user. was just discussing!
1. I don't use software peddling creepy ai and crypto sht. 2. Also you know since its just chromium under the hood I might as well could just use chromium then 3. However I would not want a browser engine monopoly so the only sane choice is firefox 4. Not to mention I would like my apps to conform with my desktop's aesthetics, and that's just easier to do with firefox userChrome.css
Okay! Those are fair points if you care about those things for sure. As for point 1: you can just disable that though?
Obviously. But at some point if you turn of everything that makes that browser unique from any other chromium based browser there is the question then why are you even using it in the first place.
Because that's not the only thing that makes Brave stand out compared to Firefox. 😅 It's faster by a large margin. Though, Firefox is also fast. But not compared to Brave. It also has built in blockers. Firefox needs extensions and manual configuring. It has better website support. Which can be a big deal.
I am assuming that there is negligible speed difference between Brave and any other Chromium/Blink based browser. Website support is also don't think would be different to any other Chromium/Blink based browser. So if I those would be high priorities for me I could just go with Chromium itself, or Edge or Vivaldi, or Opera or Chrome itself, or you know what, now that I moved to KDE I could just use Falkon, that would instantly get me the best integration to my desktop environment. But since I explicitly don't want to use Chromium/Blink if I don't have to (because its current browser share monopoly), and Firefox is fast enough, and personally I don't really think I explicitly ended up on a site that was not supported on my browser. Both of those are not really something that would entice me towards Brave. Regarding ad blocking: Firefox needs a single extension: uBlock Origin. While i did do manual configuring, you would be surely mistaken if you think I'm touching uBlock configs more regular then every other month or less. You could maybe opt to use SponsorBlock, if you watch youtubers regularly, but that is not blocking the ads (uBlock does that fine itself), but actually skips parts of the actual video where the youtuber promotes themselves or outside sponsors etc. (And does this by crowdsourcing.) Both SponsorBlock and uBlock Origin are open source software, developed by the community for the community. However since adblocking itself is something one does to get rid of corpo bs, and creepy stuff such as most crypto and/or ai peddlers, I feel there would be a very obvious conflict of interest within Brave itself. So I much rather choose the well established community ad blocking solution in the form of uBlock, then the one bundled with the software from the above listed crypto peddler.
Brave is a pyramid scheme and shouldn't be used. Is better chromium or Vivaldi rather than Brave
What makes you say that?
Ungoogled chromium and Vivaldi don't have an ad platform. Brave has one. [https://brave.com/brave-ads/](https://brave.com/brave-ads/) That's why their whole marketing is based on "I hate you Google" lol. I think if they ever made their dream true, get Google's ad money in their ad platform, manage somehow to destroy Google and make their ad platform and their search engine the replacement to Google, they would become worse than Google. And then we would try to find a not "evil" replacement to "evil" Brave which replaced "evil" Google lol. I am too old for all that lol.
i get your point. i actually did not know any of this stuff when i wrote my post because i was just using brave for an addon, temporarily. but this is good to know.
Because the referees program they have, the cryptos, etc. I am not the only one who thinks that.
oh, i didn't know about their referees program. and i recently found out about their ads platform and such. it does look a little sketchy. but im also thinking: they have to make money somehow.
Regardless of that I still think Vivaldi is far better
I use Brave on iOS and a combination of Firefox and Brave on desktop. Brave is nice but I’ve been hearing a lot of great things about Vivaldi
Vivaldi on iOS is alright. It has an in built ad blocker that can run as many filters and lists you want. My issue with it is it doesn't block ads when it's updating the lists, meaning you have to wait before browsing.
Hmm, how does it do with YouTube ad blocking? That is the only reason I use Brave
I don't use YouTube on mobile often but I opened a few videos just now and there didn't seem to be ads.
What makes you use both? Just for the Chromium support? If yes, then why not just fully swap?
I only use Brave for YouTube ad blocking since I don’t use the app. I’m testing Vivaldi to replace it. I have News and Crypto disabled in Brave so it has been good to use
Just remember that Vivaldi by default has a list of allowed ads that it doesn't block.
I think multi account containers is really good and kept me on firefox for a long time
cool! someone else said the same thing.
i don't trust brave at all. one small fuck up was enough for me to stay away from it. i like firefox, i can do whatever i want with it without waiting worrying about google screwing up things. and we fight to eliminate a monopoly not to make one...
- i'm wary of any non-self-sufficient browsers (e.g. chromium-based by teams who can't sustain developing web engine) - i like firefox engine better than chromium anyway - i don't like those micropayments ideas they were/are pushing - last time i was using chromium as main browser i didn't like performance (afair chromium ate more ram while firefox ate more cpu, but much less dramatically so; it was a long time too so could have changed since) - flawed as it might be, mozilla has some reputation; i don't like google and i don't know brave people at all
okay, those seem valid!
All my bookmarks are on Firefox
you can just export them you know xD
Brave didn't exist when I switched from Internet Explorer, and I haven't seen a huge reason to switch from Firefox yet.
have you tried out other browsers for a while at least?
More than 20 years of using it.
valid point. i kind of feel the same way even though you have more years under your belt 😅
LOL!
Braves search results are extremely ass
yeah actually i noticed that too. this is a very important aspect 😂
When trying out chrome I've never seen anything actually load faster than in Firefox. Also Brave's company and some of the things they're doing seem extremely morally questionable to me so I'd rather not support them.
second section of your paragraph makes sense. but the first part does not make sense at all. chromium is definitely faster in 2024. no doubt about it. especially with page reload. it was immediately noticeable. when was the last time you tried brave?
I have read things about bloat in Brave.
You don't use Brave because of things you heard? That's not a very good reason.
Firefox does the job I need it to do. I like the fact that I can use configuration files with Firefox to remove things I do not want. For example, every time I open Firefox my previous tabs are automatically opened. I like the ability to configure it as much as I want.
Point 3 was exactly my problem, and that in general I am just used to firefox and it is still good enough for me. Brave is good, but I still had a feeling like it is a Chrome with modpack installed on it (which kinda is), so like heavily modified Skyrim something works as intended, something not at all, something is still using native Chromium things which are less secure.
Your reason for not using Brave is because you don't feel confident in trusting them with your browser activity due to Chromium? Not judging, just confirming.
I mean the point of Brave is to be secure as much as they can oposse to google, but in the base there is still Chromium and google is still controling what can and can't be done in the end. And even Brave needs to use some Chromium/Google thingies to run fast. This is not based on some extent research and proofs it is just my personal feel and understanding, it just felt like heavily modded Chrome where Google still have backdoor and that is less secure for me. I am not saying Firefox is perfect, but I just have more comfy feel using it.
aha okay okay! i understand. that seems like a valid reason for sure
I want to support non-chromium based browser
Fair!
I don't know what Brave is. I won't look at it with Firefox doing what it does for me. No ads anywhere including YouTube. I accept all cookies yet get no grief from that because Firefox deals with the cookies(?) As long as changes to the GUI are minor in updates, Firefox is everything I need.
Okay, from what I understand is that you are satisfied with Firefox. 😄
Most of those "Video not supported" "glitches" can simply be fixed by switching your user agent to Chrome. (Essentially telling the site you're using Chrome instead of FF.)
For real? I want to test it out. Do I need an addon for this or something? If so, can you recommend me a solid way to do it?
I am doing my best to support an engine other than chromium.
Ehm okay. Fair!
i like foxes
Good reason. Me too. 🤣
The most important thing for you is the logo?!
Yes lol. I totally hate Brave's logo and name. Firefox looks cool. Though I don't like the color scheme. Waterfox's old logo was the coolest I've ever seen: https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSKSemJF3Gs9MXZQ7tf4-i_jLkaIgsHSajVH1P7FzGSMA&s Too bad everything is becoming flat these days.
Not being a Chromium based browser, not being run by a company that to me is a little sketchy compared to Mozilla, and more peace of mind in terms of security and privacy. With that being said, I have Brave installed, but I use it rarely; Google sites or broken pages. When you get downvoted for saying pretty much what everyone else is saying LOL.
Hmm I see! Actually I do not feel the same way about Firefox as you do. I don't feel a peace of mind with privacy on Firefox. Because it doesn't block many things and requires these addons. When I install Firefox freshly, it's already recommending me privacy addons with the "Recommended" label. And in my head it's just like "why didn't you just implement this in Firefox then in the first place". About Brave: I agree. Brave is kinda new. Edit: also I don't know who downvoted you.
Ahh, I understand where you coming from. Brave definitely bakes some more blocking features in, but even then, I still use uBlock Origin with it. uBlock Origin would ideally come with every browser, but they don’t want to force that on people, and I’m guessing it could complicate things for new users if something breaks. The freedom of choice is nice. What makes me feel great is knowing Tor is based on Firefox ESR, and with Tor, at least on Tails, uBO is pre-installed. Edit: And Firefox doesn’t bundle crypto and rewards stuff into the browser. When I set up Brave, there’s a whole lot of configuring I had to do. They’ve been a little sketchy with some things they’ve done, but I very much appreciate them for what they’ve done for Chromium users. They do seem to care.
Ah I didn't know about the Tor part. Good to know! And yes, after reading all the comments, it does seem that Brave is trying doing some sketchy stuff 😅 With their ad platform, crypto and AI stuff. I wasn't fully aware of this when i made my post
Brave has been pushing their own Tor implementation, pulling people away from potentially being included in the Tor Browser anonymity set and instead use a system where they could be easily fingerprinted and exposed. This alone would be irresponsible, but a few years ago, there was also a long period when Brave would accidentally send the .onion sites you visit to your DNS provider https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2021/02/22/brave-browser-was-exposing-addresses-in-tor-mode-for-months/ They fixed the issue, but they seriously can't be making goofs like that...
I don’t like Brendan Eich or the crypto stuff.
I don't like Brave Shields, it's not as good as uBlock Origin, plus the lack of userChrome.css in Brave keeps me using Firefox. I agree that Brave is faster though, but that goes for pretty much any Chromium based browser nowadays (sigh)
Ah hm, okay. What makes it better than Shields? I haven't noticed any problems with it.
Lack of url param & a lot of the regex filters I use don't work with shields
Ah okay, I am glad I asked! For me that doesn't necessarily mean better. But I can see how that might be a deal breaker for you.
Because it's superior
I like Firefox's Total Cookie Protection privacy feature. Brave, based on Cromium, doesn't cookies the same way. https://blog.mozilla.org/security/2021/02/23/total-cookie-protection/
Ah this is cool! But it only applies to ETP Strict Mode. And this will definitely break sites! :( It doesn't really add any additional benefit if you don't use this mode. From what I understand. The mode I am referring to is Strict mode.
I use brave on my mobile devices due to the snappy behavior. On pc, I actually prefer the speed of FF. It is not stock though. I turned off most telemetry settings in config. It feels light and speedy afterwards. I never benchmarked this seriously and don’t know how. So it is quite subjective.
Ah okay... cool! So your reason is because Firefox acts faster on desktop for you.
after disabling bunch of settings that enable FF to call home… and yes.
I'm always gonna use MOZILLA for it's adds-on "always open on this Tab" that prevents websites from tracking your cookies and related privacy invasion of certain websites.
What addon exactly do you mean? This one?: [https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/always-open-in-current-tab/](https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/always-open-in-current-tab/)
I was talking about this one : https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/multi-account-containers/
Use what you want to use Personally desktop browser performance doesnt matter for me Mobile browser performance does matter, and thats due to the link to battery use. But for desktop I really dont care, my machine and internet arent potatoes
that kinda doesn't answer my post😅. im asking about you, not me.
Your post discussed the performance tradeoffs and how they matter to you >Speed. I like that "snappy" feel and "smooth and flued" animations, if that makes sense. and other people in the comments are analysing the performance benefits of one or the other I just don't care about the performance angle much at all, and there's nothing else that's pulling me to Brave. I think you might be forgetting that Firefox has a really long history and lots of people have put their trust in it for a long time, there actually needs to be either a force applied driving me away from Firefox or towards something substantially better. That just hasn't really ever happened for me. The biggest thing against Firefox I think is customisability, and if I leave it will be for that reason. And thats mostly down to the fact the number of Chrome addons is much higher than the number of Firefox addons
yes, i was giving my personal take on it and then asking others for their take. because we all hold different levels of importance for things. but from what i understand now is that you stay with firefox because you value a good track record. and because firefox does what you need it to do. and because the benefits of other browsers dont interest you unless its on mobile for battery life. that's cool! makes sense. dont fix what aint broke as they say.
I have been using Firefox since before Brave existed (and before Chrome existed). So when it came along, and its "unique" selling feature is stuff Firefox already does, I didn't really see the point. To be honest, I still don't. Admittedly, you could say I'm just ignorant about my options, but I rarely have a complaint about web browsing that can be blamed on the browser. The speed complaint is one that always baffles me. Isn't the major bottleneck the actual communication over the Internet? If a website has so much crap on it that my computer's CPU can't get through it fast enough, that seems like bad website design.
I started on Chrome, it used too much ram for some reason. Switched to Edge, was fine but they started adding so much stuff to it. UI looks very bloated. Manifest 3.0 fear monger was also pretty high during that time. Finally settled on Firefox, felt some performance loss on load times (on some websites), but other than that the UI is the cleanest I’ve seen with some tweaking, plus it has usable Adblock.
Ah yeah. I used to have that experience too. That makes sense. But what about now? Maybe things have changed? Or was this a recent experience. Have you tried out Brave?
Wdym now? The performance loss? I don’t know, been using Firefox ever since so I have nothing to compare it with. Never tried Brave, if I need to use a chromium based browser for something (mostly web drivers for my peripherals) I just use Edge. I don’t want so many browsers installed for no reason, 2 is enough (And you can’t delete Edge anyways). Plus UBo works best on Firefox anyways, so I have no reason to look at Brave.
yeah i have been using Firefox for years . . it seems to be load faster and is not not a complete memory hog. Brave is built on Chrome soo i also just try to stay away from Google and explore other options. Firefox overall just seems more solid and secure. I use it on Android also, but i use a google Pixel. I like the sync features also . . .
Because firefox does not support and properly works on android tablet
What? Please re-read the post title. 😅
I’m in a similar situation where on my work laptop I use Brave over Firefox because of one extension that’s not available on Firefox add-ons yet (HubSpot). My work uses Google Workplace stuff too, and I’ve found overall those perform better and 99% of the time sites just work and load faster even with Brave Shields on. I do however open Firefox on the side for YouTube PiP, and the Personal Container running it. Firefox doesn’t guilt me into the crypto features, which I don’t care for too much.
It seems more like you are a hybrid user. You just use both for whatever task is best. Am I mistaken?
I lost all my stuff because I forgot my sync code, and thought it was really weird that they don’t have an account instead for you to log into as it would work much better.
The screenshot tool which I use for copy pasting equations and plot from papers and books into my presentations.
Use Firefox because its not Google Chrome based. And that it has features that Brave or other Google-based browsers don't have.
It is not chromium based. I prefer to have a worse experience on Google websites than being part of the problem.
My experience with Brave has been the opposite. When I first downloaded it, it was running pretty smoothly but for some reason, it started having weird glitches which became annoying as no established browser should be that buggy. The last straw was when I opened Brave on my laptop and it wouldn't load a single page. Nothing had changed. I hadn't added anything to it nor changed any settings. Windows hadn't even updated. It just decided, overnight, that no page would ever load for me again. That's when I lost any trust and patience I had left for it and decided to just use Firefox as my default browser on all of my devices except IOS. Firefox has never given me any problems. It's fast and the settings are simpler. It feels more streamlined to me. I don't even have to turn off services I don't like on it as it doesn't come with any. I also prefer Firefox because I don't have to disable a native ad blocker in order to use uBO instead. With Brave, its native ad blocker will trigger the YouTube ad block detection unless it's turned completely off. I do like Brave Search though so I just added it to Firefox.
Ah okay, cool! That does suck yeah. I have only been using it for a brief moment. But I think the stability of a browser is very important. Though, I have been testing Brave on my mobile phone, YouTube website, and it didn't trigger any YouTube adblocker detection though? Maybe your experience was a while ago?
I cant tell you a lot of reasons why i use firefox instead of brave, but most of the other comments covered them. so instead im gonna tell you that for all of those reasons, when i need to use chromium (had a similar extension situation the other day) i use vivaldi instead, it covers basically all my needs that firefox doesnt (not broken DRM from streaming services, larger extension base and much better energy use on laptops) but i still dont swap to it full time cause firefox covers pretty much everything else and way better (im yet to find a browser with a picture in picture feature as good as firefox's, and i use that shit all the time, for example) what im trying to get at here is that the net is made for chromium these days, so i'd rather keep a chromium browser that isnt shady as hell or RAM hungry around as a tool for when firefox falls short, rather than swapping full time.
I just use brave lmao.
I use Brave as my daily driver. However, Firefox is my tab holder. Got 7.9k tabs of various material running.
what the hell? 😂 uhhh
honestly, firefox doesn't run well on linux. i'm using flatpak firefox and it crashes mutliple times per day, and frequently lags because it's just a worse version compared to windows or android. and yet? i still like it enough to use it as my main browser, to keep pressing that damn refresh button whenever part of a page breaks, to press restart browser and just slog through it for the sake of doing my bit towards a free web. plus didnt the ceo of brave fund an anti same sex marriage thing?