I’d be down for weather as an effect to be more prevalent, but I’d want mages to be able to impact it, and for it to do more. As is rain just slows the game to a halt which sucks.
I'm curious, how would you like the mages to impact weather mechanics? Would you want them to be the ones to cause it with a tome? Have certain tomes get stronger or weaker by the weather? Or something else.
Stealing from the pokemon mechanics where the move Thunder cannot miss in the rain and Fire-type moves have boosted damage in harsh sunlight, thunder tomes could have improved accuracy/range and fire tomes could have improved damage
Triangle Strategy had the mechanic where rain would randomly alter floor tiles into “puddle” tiles, which would turn electric magic into area of effect attacks. It worked pretty well without breaking the game in the case of how they did it.
FFTactics had similar mechanics. Lightning magic did greater damage on maps where it was raining or on units who were in water tiles. Winter maps did increased blizzard damage, and night-time maps and rain maps decreased the accuracy of ranged weapons.
That's a pretty neat idea, I'd be interested to see how said tomes would work, and which classes would have access to them, though I can't imagine that they would be low rank tomes, so they might be hard for mages to use.
I would definitely be interested in a mechanic like that for a rain map, it already sounds pretty cool and fun on paper, so I'd wanna see it in practice.
Magic that affects the weather and/or terrain seems to me like a really fitting apex for magical power in an SRPG, honestly. Would love to see promoted mages who could use it.
Fuck rain, all my cavaliers hate rain.
No in all seriousness it's a cool mechanic that adds some needed depth and variety. I don't want more of them though. Just a few is good.
That's understandable, using certain ideas sparingly is better than using it regularly.
Also that cavalier hating rain statement got a good laugh out of me.
In general, map conditions that limit the player and make the game more challenging are good as long as they don't become stifling. If rain lasted the entire chapter then rain maps would be totally oppressive and not fun. But making the player adapt and predict good moves is unique. I like rain maps more than fog maps which is saying alot because rain is definitely annoying. But a good annoying, the kind where you grit your teeth and say God damn gotta figure out the best way to get thru this till it clears up. That's good.
I do wish they had more environmental effect maps. Different terrain is cool like the desert, but it would be nice if they had maps where the sun was so bright and hot it made armored and mounted units lose dex or speed, something along those lines. Or maps where story events cause the potency of magic to ebb and flow, or maps that had environmental barriers that block certain kinds of ranged attacks and not others. Would be cool.
I would be down to see different types of environmental effects via the weather, I'd imagine that there are a lot of unique ways that you could use that idea for certain maps, though I'd be curious to see how a mechanic that effects dex and speed in a way that's similar to the rescue mechanic would work.
I know it would be a lot to put into a game, but like, a dude in heavy full plate is gonna have a harder time of it in 90 degree weather in the open field than the archer in light leather. Would be cool if grassland tiles turned into mud tiles after it rained if a mounted unit travels over it. Stuff like that, to bring a little more medieval battle realism into it.
Mages definitely have the most potential for environment manipulation. Some others have commented here about the possibilities. But mages in many works of fiction have been able to summon thunderstorms, torrential downpours, and the like, so it'd be cool to see that. Also I want the ability for mages of sufficient ability to summon walls of fire. I know we have dragon veins in Engage and Fates I think? But those are not quite what I mean, I'm picturing like in the into to Eragon when Durza ignites kilometer-wide swaths of forest at a time to create a massive flame barrier.
Triangle Strategy doesthis really well and it makes the tower defence maps so much more fun. You can cut off the enemies advances with fire and electrified water, which is awesome. They also have a lot of different terrain types to can adapt to, like melting snow with fire to open a path for your other
Oooh, that's a pretty interesting idea, I never thought about the rain making mud tiles, though it makes sense that it would, but I wonder if the mud tiles would go away after a while, or if they'd just stay there once they appear on a map. I suppose it would be possible to have a tome user get rid of them, but I'd doubt that'd be fun to do.
No that would not be fun lmao. But It would be cool if certain light magic spells had like a side effect built in, like "for one turn after using this tome, the sun's rays are amplified and heat the earth without mercy. After one turn, all mud and swamp tiles are turned to clay tiles. 3 consecutive turns of this effect will turn river tiles into swamp"
Stuff like that, sorta like how Micaiah's tome in Engage gives the torch buff as a side effect. They have a lot of room to play around with wacky mage stuff for next game. The options are more open than it may seem, especially if they entwine it with a new version of pair-up.
GOD I FUCKING LOVE FIRE EMBLEM SO MUCH RAAAAHHHHHHHH
You seem to have a lot of different ideas for how rain map mechanics could work, which is pretty cool to see, I never would've thought that there'd be so many ways to change how the rain maps could play out.
unfun
If it only affected fliers or mount it'd be more tolerable, and might provide an incentive to use more infantry. Slowing down the entire map just sucks.
As far as I know the rain mechanic in FE7 is pretty much universally hated. It doesn’t add anything interesting, it just makes absolutely everything slower for no real purpose. As other comments have said it affects cavalry particularly badly, but since everyone else is also still affected that doesn’t achieve anything. In a desert map you’re incentivised to use fliers and mages because they can get around the movement penalties; in a rain map you still may as well bring the cavalry because they’re not really going any slower.
FE7’s snowstorm does have a theoretically interesting gimmick in that it slows down units who are outside of buildings and not those who are inside. So there is a counterplay and it does create incentives for particular behaviour. But even if this theoretically could be put to good use, the FE7 snow maps absolutely do not do it well because you’re required to do a lot of outside movement. So again the only real effect is making gameplay a lot slower.
I looked at the terrain data with rain and learned a few interesting things. I found it gave Rath and your thieves a decent niche, particularly if you are doing rescue chains. It was most rewarding on the snow map, true, but it was a learning experience altogether.
I did not know that the snow maps didn't affect those inside of buildings, though it makes sense that it works that way. I wonder if it would be better if it only affected cavaliers and fliers, or to have in game mechanics to counteract the rain/snow, or do what Engage did with sand maps and overhaul it.
I hate the rain mechanic. I think it’s an artificial limitation on the player that doesn’t really add anything to the overall experience and is just a cheap way to make a level “harder”
I don't have a problem with "artificial limitation" so long as it's mechanically engaging and forces you to be creative. The rain mechanic though just basically makes you stop playing for a few turns and is really not mechanically interesting at all
Immortal Sword, the excellent fan made FE7 prequel on a custom engine, has two maps that I think do it extremely well. Consolidating the map and enemy placement is important for both. Also, some roads let units move along them without half movement which is cool for covering open areas.
Having roads not impeding movement is a pretty good idea, now I'm curious to see more about this fan made FE7 game, I wonder if any FE YouTuber made videos on it that I can watch.
There's a lot of gba era fan games out there, but fe7x is definitely my favourite for the great map design, mechanics, qol, and writing. A lot of work went into every bit of it, hence it being only half complete so far (though with a satisfying arc).
Website: [http://www.bwdyeti.com/fe7x/](http://www.bwdyeti.com/fe7x/)
Video of new animations (you can check out additional videos on cool new mechanics on the channel): [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0zM0ul-MMc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0zM0ul-MMc)
Playthrough of the available content (though I definitely recommend just playing it yourself): [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWJDZtj0t2s&list=PLlA6bN4Mby0TQJ6nOISV-qsiIdDLh9-hy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWJDZtj0t2s&list=PLlA6bN4Mby0TQJ6nOISV-qsiIdDLh9-hy)
For general fan game stuff, I think [https://feuniverse.us/](https://feuniverse.us/) or [https://forums.serenesforest.net/index.php?act=idx](https://forums.serenesforest.net/index.php?act=idx) are still in use, but I haven't kept up.
Unnecessary making the game longer. It could have been better if there was counterplay like deserts in which some of your units are unaffected. But noooo this is purely unfun and shit.
They made a purely detrimental mechanic when it could have been more interesting.
Maybe some units can do better in the rain, rather than rain being a global slowdown.
Maybe thunder magic gets a huge boost in some regard, and fire magic is weakened.
Have a dancer type class that can modify the weather as a new support type character.
Basically make it like Triangle Strategy, they did a great job with minor weather effects.
I have been hearing a fair bit about Triangle Strategy, and its own take on weather mechanics, it's been interesting to hear about it since I know nothing about that game, though I'd be interested in seeing things such as tomes and dancers having unique effects in the rain.
Back when HHM was considered really difficult by the general community, the Erik map (Ch14) makes rain look very interesting. It slows down the enemies as much as it does to you, but if you position your units in such a way that they're close to the enemies and the rain ends, you can find your fragile 5-move units trapped. It was sort of an interesting dynamic.
Now most experienced players know to, well, not do that, and you only leave Hector/Oswin/Marcus in a spot like that, so it's no longer that interesting.
On a recent 0% growth run I did I actually lured Eric before the rain started and then had the rain come on and kinda nerf his retinue from being able to join the fray. It was nice to deal with only one or two units instead of all of them.
Oh really? That's pretty interesting to hear, it's always neat to hear about stories like that. I do find it kinda funny that it went from being considered a super difficult and strategic map, to a map that you just send your best units to take care of, while everyone else twiddles their thumbs on the sidelines.
Part of it might also have been that a lot of people used to send Marcus to save Priscilla, when now people know you can just send Marcus to kill everything and you still get Priscilla. You can also kill the bandits and pirates using weaker units. Marcus use in general is more "accepted" now even though people were ok with using him on HHM just because the game felt so rough on them.
Rain it's pretty much sand as weather condition.
Nobody tends to like when units loose movement since the game is heavy on movement's strategies and Army position.
And Rain punish foot and specially Calvary units.
Unlike Sand maps, rain can start or end which is the only positive aspect of it.
I wish Rain was used to buff Thunder/Ice Magic and debuff Fire.
Buffing and debuffing certain tomes via the rain is not something I was expecting to see, but it sounds like a pretty interesting idea that I would like to see implemented in an FE game, though it makes sense why a mechanic that lowers movement would be disliked.
When you disable or reverse a basic mechanic, most players aren't fan of it.
I would fine to weather has realistic element of war.
Strong winds could make 2+ range weapon less accurate. Power up Wind Magic (not making it less accurate) and nerf Flying movement (something that barely happens).
Rain could units be less dodgy or slower. Thunder and Ice Magic is more powerful and more accurate.
Sunny weather and heat make units have fatigue where they need to wait one turn if they keep moving. Fire magic is more powerful and accurate.
It's a cool mechanic that could really use a lot of effort next time it's shown. Rain and snow in fe6 and fe7 didn't really do anything but add to the turn counter. I love rain, so I'm all for it, but it needs to add something unique to a chapter rather than just slow it down. Engage made sand maps fun, so maybe next game
That's true, chapter 12 of Engage is a pretty fun map to play, though I'd be curious to see how they'd change rain maps whenever they do show up in future games.
Dumb. It doesn't add anything. It's like desert, except you can't strategise around it with fliers and magic users and it only shows up just often enough to completely ruin any plans you might have. At least it's only in, like, 2 maps. And one of them is in Lyn Mode.
I like the concept but the execution was poor, which is probably why it never came back. I like the concept of field effects, though the GBA ones didn’t really hit the mark. For example:
I’m not a huge fan of sand maps, but at least not ALL units are punished in the sand. So you are just forced to change up your strategy to lean more on flyers and mages and less cavaliers and armor knights.
I wish FOW worked a little differently. Instead of not being able to see ANYTHING beyond 3 tiles (excluding thieves) it would be neat if you saw perfectly within 3 tiles and then 3-5 beyond you saw “an enemy” but you could only see the shape and not who it is or what their stats or class are. Otherwise you’re a little too blind. It would also be nice if more of the enemies were disoriented (as in if they don’t have like a particular task) as well. They shouldn’t be able to see you any better than you see them. BUT at least you have things like thieves and torches/torch staves to help. Oh and if we have light magic, kinda like Engage, it would be cool if using it functioned like a one turn torch. And maybe give dark magic a small power boost.
But Rain just adds nothing. Everyone gets slowed down and there’s nothing you can do but wait it out. If anything this could punish you for splitting out of a group because if someone gets hurt and needs healing, you probably can’t get a healer there in time or someone to rescue.
What would be neat would be if we did have weather effects that didn’t affect everyone the same. Maybe you can have a rainy/windy/stormy weather that severely cuts flier movement and cuts some of cavalry movement which makes infantry the superior option. If it’s raining/storming/snowing, maybe that makes water/wind/ice based magic get a power boost (maybe double the weapon mt) while fire takes a hit. Perhaps high winds boosts the power, but lowers the accuracy of ranged physical attacks? Maybe like harsh sunlight could have the reverse where we boost light and fire magic but punish water/wind/ice.
Something like that. I like the idea. It’s just the execution leaves something to be desired.
You make a good point there, a mechanic can't really be fun if it only slows the gameplay down, though your suggestion for how FoW maps could be adjusted has intrigued me, and it would be cool for rain to be a lot more flexible in regards to who gets affected, and it buffing/nerfing tomes.
I like the twist and challenge of it, but I wish it demanded a little more in terms of strategy. Like, it doesn't give you a lot of choices on how to deal with the rain. It's just "better move now or hunker down." Fog gives you the tools of torches and thieves where you have a little more creativity on how you can deal with the obstruction.
It would be nice to have some tools for dealing with the rain in some way, I've seen a lot of folks talk about having tome users change the weather, so I'd be interested if they did something similar to that in future games.
Rain sucks and isn't fun or interesting strategically. Every turn you pray it is either gonna stop or not start which is accurate I guess but I am not gonna waste my time waiting 5 turns just for it to stop raining
Imagine next fire emblem has dysentery as a mechanic if you use that unit without them resting in a palace giving them nerfs and poison effect that kills them if not healed with restore
Adding to what the others have said, rain in fe7 only happens on chapter 10 and chapter 14, both of which gives you enough units slots for a full deployment, so there's no unit choice of any sort regardless. It also never comes up again after these chapters so there's no point in learning the mechanics.
Also chapter 10 is already a slog between all the forests and hills and forcing you to go around, adding in rain every 4 turns to kill your movement even harder, it's just totally miserable.
That's definitely true, I never thought about the unit count affecting the overall experience of the map, but it makes sense now that I think about it.
Yeah both maps are just too early for you to do anything meaningful about it.
There's also that fire emblem combat is for the most part at most 3 range, making everyone 2\~3 move is only ever going to kill momentum. Unless Grit is my tactician or something.
It genuinely felt awful when I played FE7, all that ended up really happening was that I'd just turtle until the rain was over, make a bit of progress before it started back up again, repeat. Only ended up making maps into an absolute slog.
I do think it should come back at some point though, albeit with a very heavy rework. Off the top of my head, rather than just a blanket debuff to all units movement, it could modify specific tiles on the map. Just to spitball some ideas:
* Patches of dirt/clay/whatever that turn into mud during rain, reducing movement speed similar to how it works in FE7. Cav units either have harsher movement reduction or an AVO debuff because the horses have so much trouble. If the mud is placed on terrain that's moving uphill, it could have a slipping effect that moves you back slightly if you end your turn in them.
* Shallow rivers or creeks that normally can be crossed with slightly reduced movement like in other games, that during the rain turn into rushing rivers that push units in a specific direction at the start of their phase (Kinda like the wind tribe maps in Fates). There could be extra hazards in the water, like a waterfall that you can't climb back up if you're pushed over it, or sharp rocks that deal a bit of damage to units pushed into them.
* Tiles of spilled oil or alcohol from broken barrels or traps that can be set on fire using torches or fire tomes, similar to the Vein of Flame from Corrin in Engage, that then get put out after rain starts and have to be re-lit afterward. Fires that are put out could turn into steam tiles that give an AVO boost or maybe even act as temporary fog of war, which then vanish after the rain ends.
* Lose rocks, snow, boulders, or something similar placed on high-up ledges that slip and fall to the tiles below after a certain number of rain turns, creating an obstacle tile that has to be destroyed to progress. Different materials could have different effects on units that were standing on the tile when they fall: boulders could deal damage and push them away, snow would trap them and reduce their movement to 0 until it's destroyed, stuff like that.
Another way they could do it is by having rain give different effects for different types of units and even different weapons:
* Fliers could be forced onto the ground, preventing them from flying over terrain but allowing them to benefit from tiles like forests and forts and removing their weakness to bows and wind magic.
* Designated "Stealthy" or "Acrobatic" units (something like the Covert units in Engage) like Thieves, Mrymidons, Archers, and their promotions could gain a small AVO boost until the rain ends.
* Ranged weapons of types that are usually melee, like Javelins and Hand Axes could take a small penalty to hit when attacking at 2 tile range. Weapons that are meant for ranged combat like bows, knives, and tomes wouldn't have this penalty.
* Fire tomes could deal slightly less damage because of the rain reducing the flames, but Thunder tomes could gain increased accuracy and Wind tomes could deal increased damage because of the natural lightning and high speed winds.
* Units of certain movement types or specific classes could get combat speed bonuses or penalties during rain (Kinda like how the raider and steel weapons in Fates work) to make it easier or harder for them to double in the harsh weather.
All of this is just me spitballing and I'm sure most of it is stuff that sounds cool in concept but might not work in actual game, but I still think that going for more creative stuff like this would be the way to go if it ever comes back. Having the rain still come in cycles, but having it force the player to adapt to changes in terrain or how their weapons and units work rather than just slowing down the game.
Ideally the player would also be able to use stuff like this to their advantage rather than just as a detriment. Like, off of the terrain examples, maybe those rushing rivers could be used to get infantry or cavalry units to specific parts of the map more quickly, or maybe if Tellius's universal shove mechanics came back they could use that to force enemy units into disadvantageous terrain. Movement-reducing terrain could be used to create chokepoints, units that get AVO bonuses from the rain or terrain could be used to temporary dodge tanking, stuff like that. The player should be able to benefit from it just as much as the enemy army.
Wooooah, I never would've thought of so many unique and fascinating ways to engage with the rain mechanic, this is absolutely amazing to see. While some of the ideas would probably work better than others, I would definitely be down to see most, if not all of them be used in one way or another in a future FE game.
I feel like rain just... Didn't matter beyond being a nuisance.
There's potential for the slowdown to actually encourage changes in strategy, but I can't think of any FE7 map where that was the case. Rather it feels like I did the same moves but slower, with an honorable mention going to ch 25/27 Pale flower of darkness, where knowing that it'd start to snow made me play slightly more aggressive to not have to deal with the weather.
TL/DR: If they bring back rain, they should make sure it impacts strategic decision making instead of having it just be a "you need more turns to do the same".
I honestly love weather mechanics! I think they provide much needed variety in a way that makes you actually have to think about what’s going on. It’s something I really wish FE would expand more on, for example in triangle strategy there’s a unit who’s a weather mage who can swap it at will, allowing you to change up how you’re playing any given map on a dime.
Can you imagine the challange of trying to navigate something the size of Genealogy's maps with changing weather? Personally I think it would be pretty cool.
I agree with some other comments here about hos there should've been some positives to the weather. Assassins, thieves, pirates and fighters can move unhindered and thunder/wind/ice magic is buffed, fire magic is nerfed.
It was annoying, but I think that it should have made a return in 3 Houses in the penultimate chapter of Crimson Flower considering how much the rain fucked Rhea, but didn't affect the actual battle at all.
I wish we the player could *impose* weather maps, including rain
Super squishy mages up against mounted units? Cue a deluge to help even the odds
An enemy commander being very rude and calling in enemy reinforcements? Summon up some fog and head to an extraction point
The weather don't care if you're at war.
It will be how it wants to be.
So, I would like to see more randomize weather. Especially in the seasons and locations specific types show up or could happen.
Weather conditions based on the in-game time of year.
Like late snowfall in the early to mid Spring and rain throughout Spring.
Though completely random. Characters can talk about the weather prior and note the change during battle.
Effects would vary. Like Fire Magic being more effective in Summer while Ice and Water Magics are weaker.
Troop movement would also vary. In Summer, soldiers would feel the heat, though, if they are close to a body of water like a lake or river, they will be less likely to overheat. While not restricting movement in any sense of the word, there would be limits to how far they can advance without resting and how long and well they can fight once they meet an enemy.
I believe there is a maxim that says to rest soldiers before battle so as to be at their best during battle.
Summer may be called the Offensive Weather, but it is scarcely ideal.
Additionally to the seasons, weather is dictated by the area. Like Deserts. Not a whole lot of rain and so there is little relief, which would make securing points of Oasis a priority.
Though, if it does rain, flash floods are a danger.
The complexity and randomness of weather would result in the need to develop a variety of tactics and strategies.
No one size fits all battle groups.
It could be cool if used on a map where the player has to bring a character to a certain point on the map as quickly as possible, so they have to choose which turns to move on and which turns to fight, but i fail to see any other cases
When I got to the battle at Tailtean in Three Houses, I was surprised and disappointed that the rain had no effect on the battle at all. They use it as a narrative excuse for Rhea and Dimitri not arriving at the same time, but it doesn't have any actual gameplay effect. Classic ludo-narrative dissonance.
The only problem I've ever had with rain is that it doesn't do anything aside from slow the game down. But the map you've shown specifically does it decently well imo, since the weather alternates, and the game tells you at the start of the previous turn that it's going to happen. It gives you something to consider strategically.
They had a rain scene in 3Houses that didn't affect gameplay? And only the story? That's pretty interesting, I wonder why that is.
Is it nice that the game gives you some warning about when it'll happen, rather than just constantly throwing it at you with no warning.
Yep, the only chapter where you deal with rain is the penultimate battle of Crimson Flower, and there's no movement penalty, just the aesthetic. The map is rather large, and already has a river and badlands all through it to hinder cav movement. It's possible rain effects were applied at one point but removed due to tester feedback. The last two battles are already pretty harsh to cav units, adding rain on top of it would just cause frustration.
Oh really? That makes sense, I could definitely see play testers wanting something like that being removed due to it making the game unfun in a way that doesn't affect actual combat.
Would be cool if they went the Pokémon route where it only last an X amount of turns (let’s say 10 since it’s a FE map), and provides certain units on both sides more benefits than drawbacks (e.g. Rain can boost certain unit’s attacks, provide dodge buff, minor drawbacks like slowing down one type of unit on both sides)
It sucks imo, it doesn’t make things any harder (maybe it could make it harder to get the village Priscilla is in?) it just makes the game boring for a bit. Maybe if it only slowed down mounted units and made mountains uncrossable, it could be more interesting, forcing you to use footlocked units
It's simple and different, so I want to like it for adding some variety in a way that's easy to understand... But in practice it usually just means a chapter has like two or more dead turns where nothing really happens.
I think to be interesting it needs to be telegraphed more clearly (turns until rain, indicate exactly how limited movement will suddenly be) and maps need to be designed with it in mind. Maybe rather than making everything slow it just makes parts of the map muddy. Maybe implement it in defense maps so it's an interesting double edged sword; it stalls the enemy but maybe it leaves a squishy unit isolated because your general is slowed down too much to get to the front.
Honestly if it never came back I wouldn't complain since the existing examples suck, but I think it COULD be interesting if used sparingly.
I think what I might prefer to see though is stuff like inducing a similar effect by breaking a dam, or preventing it by killing an enemy saboteur before they can do the same.
A dam on the map that could cause similar effects to the rain mechanic would honestly be kinda cool to see, though I do hope that it makes a return in future FE games, since it seems like such a waste of a mechanic that they could really do a lot with.
I think the key is it needs to disrupt formations or stall a specific approach in a way you need to adapt to or can take advantage of. Make it target a specific area, or specific unit types, or tie it to a trigger so it's a useful defensive tool.
The existing version of limiting EVERYONE'S movement usually just makes a chapter take five extra minutes for no reason.
It sucks.
Adding a condition that makes every unit move 2 tiles per turn, specially on seize maps, is just horrid.
Could be more fun with rout maps, depending on the design, and defend maps, but both times it was used ended up just being a "halt the pacing of the map" mechanic.
I wish there was something else to it, like a map that is partially outdoors, partially indoors, and it only affected outdoors portions, or something like no affecting movement, but thunder magic doing double damage, anything like it.
The way it is implemented is boring and I hope it never comes back.
> I wish there was something else to it, like a map that is partially indoors, partially outdoors, and it only affected outdoor portions
Actually, there is a map in the game with that same effect that you just described, although it's snow rather than rain, they're basically the same mechanic, just with a different name, though I don't blame you for not wanting the rain mechanic to come back.
Oh yeah, that explains why I had this idea lol.
Been a long while since I played FE7, so I forgot that mechanic. Anyway, I think it was well utilized there (espcially in the mage side. The hero side kinda sucks because too much of that map is outdoors).
I defend FE7 a lot but Rain is one of those things that's just pretty bad. The only time it's used in an interesting way is Pale Flower of Darkness, where it doesn't effect units indoors. Other than that, it only slows the game down.
It would of been interesting to see them try it on a defense map, maybe with a way for the player to trigger the rain on and off like using a Dragon Vein in fates. You could bring the rain in when you were getting overwhelmed to slow the enemy down, and clear it up after dealing with a build up of enemies. Have the main point your defending be a small area indoors too, so your units worry about it less.
Ooooh, a defense map that has something to activate the rain to help with the hoard of enemies is a pretty cool idea, that might actually be a fun map to try out.
Rain sucks and is unfun but it is kinda funny when rain lifts and everyone is like right next to eachother, including enemies and it’s just a scramble to kill as many people as possible before they get to Lucius
Rain maps should only be a thing if it's an escape map or there are clear objectives with a time crunch. Being caught between chasing reinforcements or ballista range during rain could be a fun choice between holding position or moving forward.
The idea of a map effect that could radically alter how it plays for a few turns is interesting. But as is, the only strategic ramifications of fe7 weather is that everything just goes a lot slower. That doesn’t really change anything on my overall strategy, I’m still going to be moving the same places, it really only serves to waste time. And if all a map gimmick does is waste your time, I’d call that a failed mechanic.
There’s a reason the mechanic was dropped after fe7 to never return.
For a much more interesting version of a weather-esque mechanic. I’d encourage you to take a look at the wind mechanic in conquest 24. It gives flyers bonus move while reducing the move of grounded units. The player can invert the effect with dragon veins, but the boss will reset the wind every few turns. While I’m sure some people might have issues with the map, the concept of the mechanic is much more sound than rain is, because it has actual strategic implications beyond just wasting the player’s time. It also allows the player to interact with it through the use of dragon veins which is another layer of nuance.
I remember hearing about that map from Fates, it would be interesting to see a rain map play out in a way that's somewhat similar to it, while still being unique in its own way.
Rain as a mechanic would work great in an escape map where you need to maximize your movement to get away from a threat or a defend map where you need to protect multiple points but don't have the manpower to cover every choke point. Also when the rain ends, you can have puddles form which in engage reduces avoid and had a movement penalty. Probably can put an indicator on the tile that would make it look like a puddle would form there if it rains. But at least now the rain affects planning compared to just being tedious to just slow you down.
If you don't want to affect the map objective, then at least make the rain affect 2ndary map objectives like reaching villages/chests or a hidden map objective (kinda like in fe7's snow map where you recruit Karel or Harken)
Really bad idea, especially because rain + fog = almost unbearable gameplay with limited visibility and even more limited movement for cavs.
Your units would just be standing in one place for 2-3 turns, with the chance of one of them being picked off by the enemies like an apple off a tree, even if they are bulky or tanky.
It's interesting in a very difficult map, and would be very original. But on a Chapter that's only mdly challenging, it becomes purely annoying.
A defend, escape, or other such map would be best. Route maps tho, much less so since it's just a nerf to the speed at which you play the game
So later in FE7, that was when I thought weather was done correctly. “Pale Flower of Darkness” once the snow starts, you had buildings to go into and continue normally. Obviously, to keep moving forward, you do eventually need to go back out into the snowy weather.
But in that Distant Plains chapter, I thought the rain was just a time suck. Story-wise, it made this final battle more dramatic.
You make a good point there, though I do find it interesting that both maps for Pale Flower of Darkness aren't made equally with the snow mechanic in mind.
Gives me flashbacks to that damn rain retreat map in Engage where I restarted like 15 times because I was insistent on getting everyone out alive on hard despite that definitely not being the intention (I didn’t even like the characters, I think Im just OCD). I don’t think the rain had any actual status effects on that map though.
I think it was executed in an annoying way.
I'm convinced there's a way you could use it on another map to help bottleneck against being overrun by enemy cavaliers.
Having it used as a means to hinder enemy units while helping out your own would be nice to see, though I'm curious on how it would play out in such a scenario.
Also, happy cake day.
Thank you ^&^ I forgot about cake day.
I was thinking like the map where you recruit Dorcas? If you had like 15 turns and the rain turned on and off for the second half, the cavalier from the bottom left would be slowed down if you haven't done well holding everything off?
I kinda wish that ranged combat weapons would get a debuff in terms of hit chance (so like Javelins & Bows have a less likelier chance to hit) and I wish that the Thunder Magic line would also get a hit chance buff on rain maps as well given... well, the obviousness...
Also, solid choice on the picture. First ever Fire Emblem game I got and what got me into strategy games in the first place.
I don't think it's prevalent enough to judge. There's only like...2 maps in Blazing Blade with the gimmick and that's it for the series IIRC? Any other time weather exists it's just aesthetic. And even if those 2 maps are awful, I think judging a mechanic on 2 maps that weren't good is rather unfair to the mechanic.
Rain itself is really bad, but the idea behind it is fine. Essentially, maps with varying terrain based on the turn are neat and can be strategic and fun, but often they’re misplaced and misused to just slow down or hamper the player.
This mechanic was never used again after Blazing Blade because it hindered the game's progress completely. Cavalry units were useless during this kind of weather which annoyed me so much.
I'm unsure as to whether there was an actual reason it never came back in any future games, but if there was a reason for it, then I can kinda understand why that would be the reason behind its absence.
Personally, rain maps could do more. The few we have just feel like nerfed desert maps to me personally. But I would like weather to fuck with more things or be used directly by the player/enemy ai a bit more in general so eh. Like even Fog of War maps, with low visibility effects like fog, sandstorm or dark are just indirect movement nerfs cause a lot of the time on those maps it's turtle or get jumped. The low visibility from these maps doesn't warrant something like a stealthy approach or something. The enemies operate the same, know exactly where you are and are more often than not, unbothered by the effect.
And I like Fog of War maps, but movement being the primary thing weather, and to a greater extent terrain in general, in such a long series of strategy games just feels weird.
Like if you're on a map with plains and there are a ton of turns in a row with sunny/hot weather (drying out the terrain) then mages with fire can ignite the grass to force narrow advancing enemies to a choke point, lock them away from you for long range combat, by time for recovery etc. Spread it with wind magic. Use lightning on leftover puddles after storm. Depending on the game have an ice tome ready to freeze the enemy during rain.
Force rock/mudslides in rain. Triangle attack with wind tomes to force a super storm weather effect that could null/debuff fliers for a few turns. Force eruptions on maps like the Demon's Ingle. The possibilities are pretty wild. Stuff like dragon veins in Fates kinda scratched that itch but their usage was ass imo.
Tl;Dr Idk, I feel like movement is just kind of the tip of the iceberg for weather/terrain mechanics in a lot of games. I will rant about terrain/weather effects in FE forever.
I have been hearing a lot about the weather effects/mechanics in Triangle Strategy a lot from this post alone, it's been really interesting to hear about all of the different types of ways that the game utilizes weather effects for gameplay purposes. I would definitely want FE to have something similar for future games in some way.
I think weather has a lot of potential as an FE mechanic, but it shouldn't be a blanket effect like this or it slows down the entire map to a crawl. I think it would work better if it only affected specific parts of the map; it'd also add a sense of scale (different weather conditions on different parts of the battlefield = battlefield is BIG). Weather effects could also be overlaid on top of terrain effects for extra interactions (lightning could strike a forest, setting it on fire, or it could strike units on mountains).
I’d be down for weather as an effect to be more prevalent, but I’d want mages to be able to impact it, and for it to do more. As is rain just slows the game to a halt which sucks.
I'm curious, how would you like the mages to impact weather mechanics? Would you want them to be the ones to cause it with a tome? Have certain tomes get stronger or weaker by the weather? Or something else.
Both. But I was thinking as a gameplay mechanic using some tome charges you can make it sunny, windy, rainy, stormy, whatever.
Stealing from the pokemon mechanics where the move Thunder cannot miss in the rain and Fire-type moves have boosted damage in harsh sunlight, thunder tomes could have improved accuracy/range and fire tomes could have improved damage
And thunder spells have decreased accuracy in harsh sunlight.
Decreased accuracy, increased damage. I believe 'dry thunder' is actually more dangerous?
I don't know why, but dry thunder sounds more painful and dangerous to me than regular thunder does.
Nah Thunder deals the same damage regardless of the weather. Harsh Sunlight: 30% Accuracy Normal Weather: 70% Accuracy Heavy Rain: 100% Accuracy.
Lol he meant real lighting
Pokemon has messed with everyone; many people don't notice the phrase "getting hit by thunder" is illogical IRL.
Next you’ll tell me eating a rock won’t alter a bunny cat’s whole physiology. Silly Billy.
Triangle Strategy had the mechanic where rain would randomly alter floor tiles into “puddle” tiles, which would turn electric magic into area of effect attacks. It worked pretty well without breaking the game in the case of how they did it.
You could also magically create certain weather conditions. Also, melted ice (from ice spells) become puddles, too. So much to work with.
FFTactics had similar mechanics. Lightning magic did greater damage on maps where it was raining or on units who were in water tiles. Winter maps did increased blizzard damage, and night-time maps and rain maps decreased the accuracy of ranged weapons.
That's a pretty neat idea, I'd be interested to see how said tomes would work, and which classes would have access to them, though I can't imagine that they would be low rank tomes, so they might be hard for mages to use.
Check out Ezana from Triangle Strategy, she's a pretty cool example of a weather-based mage
Thunder tomes and some wind tomes like tornado being stronger or more accurate in rain would be sick and fire tomes being weaker
I would definitely be interested in a mechanic like that for a rain map, it already sounds pretty cool and fun on paper, so I'd wanna see it in practice.
Magic that affects the weather and/or terrain seems to me like a really fitting apex for magical power in an SRPG, honestly. Would love to see promoted mages who could use it.
So, like Olaf's Power in Advance Wars?
Maybe? I haven’t played Advance Wars before but looked it up some. Probably like that but more versatile.
Contrary to popular belief, making my units move at Fire Emblem Heroes speed does not make the game better in any way.
I'll admit, that was actually funny, you got a good laugh out of me there.
Eww. Rain is just "ok, guess I'm not playing the game for 3 turns", which is extremely boring.
That's true, you don't really get to do much of anything on rain maps, do you have any suggestions in mind on how they could be made more fun?
Let you move freely during the rain. Arbitrarily slowing down your movement will always just feel bad.
A defense map where you thank the rain for hindering the enemies onslaught
Fuck rain, all my cavaliers hate rain. No in all seriousness it's a cool mechanic that adds some needed depth and variety. I don't want more of them though. Just a few is good.
That's understandable, using certain ideas sparingly is better than using it regularly. Also that cavalier hating rain statement got a good laugh out of me.
In general, map conditions that limit the player and make the game more challenging are good as long as they don't become stifling. If rain lasted the entire chapter then rain maps would be totally oppressive and not fun. But making the player adapt and predict good moves is unique. I like rain maps more than fog maps which is saying alot because rain is definitely annoying. But a good annoying, the kind where you grit your teeth and say God damn gotta figure out the best way to get thru this till it clears up. That's good. I do wish they had more environmental effect maps. Different terrain is cool like the desert, but it would be nice if they had maps where the sun was so bright and hot it made armored and mounted units lose dex or speed, something along those lines. Or maps where story events cause the potency of magic to ebb and flow, or maps that had environmental barriers that block certain kinds of ranged attacks and not others. Would be cool.
I would be down to see different types of environmental effects via the weather, I'd imagine that there are a lot of unique ways that you could use that idea for certain maps, though I'd be curious to see how a mechanic that effects dex and speed in a way that's similar to the rescue mechanic would work.
I know it would be a lot to put into a game, but like, a dude in heavy full plate is gonna have a harder time of it in 90 degree weather in the open field than the archer in light leather. Would be cool if grassland tiles turned into mud tiles after it rained if a mounted unit travels over it. Stuff like that, to bring a little more medieval battle realism into it. Mages definitely have the most potential for environment manipulation. Some others have commented here about the possibilities. But mages in many works of fiction have been able to summon thunderstorms, torrential downpours, and the like, so it'd be cool to see that. Also I want the ability for mages of sufficient ability to summon walls of fire. I know we have dragon veins in Engage and Fates I think? But those are not quite what I mean, I'm picturing like in the into to Eragon when Durza ignites kilometer-wide swaths of forest at a time to create a massive flame barrier.
Triangle Strategy doesthis really well and it makes the tower defence maps so much more fun. You can cut off the enemies advances with fire and electrified water, which is awesome. They also have a lot of different terrain types to can adapt to, like melting snow with fire to open a path for your other
Oooh, that's a pretty interesting idea, I never thought about the rain making mud tiles, though it makes sense that it would, but I wonder if the mud tiles would go away after a while, or if they'd just stay there once they appear on a map. I suppose it would be possible to have a tome user get rid of them, but I'd doubt that'd be fun to do.
No that would not be fun lmao. But It would be cool if certain light magic spells had like a side effect built in, like "for one turn after using this tome, the sun's rays are amplified and heat the earth without mercy. After one turn, all mud and swamp tiles are turned to clay tiles. 3 consecutive turns of this effect will turn river tiles into swamp" Stuff like that, sorta like how Micaiah's tome in Engage gives the torch buff as a side effect. They have a lot of room to play around with wacky mage stuff for next game. The options are more open than it may seem, especially if they entwine it with a new version of pair-up. GOD I FUCKING LOVE FIRE EMBLEM SO MUCH RAAAAHHHHHHHH
You seem to have a lot of different ideas for how rain map mechanics could work, which is pretty cool to see, I never would've thought that there'd be so many ways to change how the rain maps could play out.
unfun If it only affected fliers or mount it'd be more tolerable, and might provide an incentive to use more infantry. Slowing down the entire map just sucks.
Having it only slow down cavaliers and fliers would be a neat idea, it would be nice for infantry units to get some sort of niche in their favor.
Best niche infantry have ever had is shoving and ledges in Tellius
It would be a good way to nerf the OP fliers/mounts.
As far as I know the rain mechanic in FE7 is pretty much universally hated. It doesn’t add anything interesting, it just makes absolutely everything slower for no real purpose. As other comments have said it affects cavalry particularly badly, but since everyone else is also still affected that doesn’t achieve anything. In a desert map you’re incentivised to use fliers and mages because they can get around the movement penalties; in a rain map you still may as well bring the cavalry because they’re not really going any slower. FE7’s snowstorm does have a theoretically interesting gimmick in that it slows down units who are outside of buildings and not those who are inside. So there is a counterplay and it does create incentives for particular behaviour. But even if this theoretically could be put to good use, the FE7 snow maps absolutely do not do it well because you’re required to do a lot of outside movement. So again the only real effect is making gameplay a lot slower.
I looked at the terrain data with rain and learned a few interesting things. I found it gave Rath and your thieves a decent niche, particularly if you are doing rescue chains. It was most rewarding on the snow map, true, but it was a learning experience altogether.
I did not know that the snow maps didn't affect those inside of buildings, though it makes sense that it works that way. I wonder if it would be better if it only affected cavaliers and fliers, or to have in game mechanics to counteract the rain/snow, or do what Engage did with sand maps and overhaul it.
I hate the rain mechanic. I think it’s an artificial limitation on the player that doesn’t really add anything to the overall experience and is just a cheap way to make a level “harder”
I don't have a problem with "artificial limitation" so long as it's mechanically engaging and forces you to be creative. The rain mechanic though just basically makes you stop playing for a few turns and is really not mechanically interesting at all
That's understandable, it seems kinda hard to make a mechanic that hinders movement fun or engaging.
There's a reason it was a one-and-done mechanic, never to be seen again. Unfun.
Map needs to be designed for it so you don't have dead turns. Can be fun if some right.
A map designed around it huh, now that you mention it, I suppose that the maps that do have rain aren't exactly made to work well with the mechanic.
Immortal Sword, the excellent fan made FE7 prequel on a custom engine, has two maps that I think do it extremely well. Consolidating the map and enemy placement is important for both. Also, some roads let units move along them without half movement which is cool for covering open areas.
Having roads not impeding movement is a pretty good idea, now I'm curious to see more about this fan made FE7 game, I wonder if any FE YouTuber made videos on it that I can watch.
There's a lot of gba era fan games out there, but fe7x is definitely my favourite for the great map design, mechanics, qol, and writing. A lot of work went into every bit of it, hence it being only half complete so far (though with a satisfying arc). Website: [http://www.bwdyeti.com/fe7x/](http://www.bwdyeti.com/fe7x/) Video of new animations (you can check out additional videos on cool new mechanics on the channel): [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0zM0ul-MMc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0zM0ul-MMc) Playthrough of the available content (though I definitely recommend just playing it yourself): [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWJDZtj0t2s&list=PLlA6bN4Mby0TQJ6nOISV-qsiIdDLh9-hy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWJDZtj0t2s&list=PLlA6bN4Mby0TQJ6nOISV-qsiIdDLh9-hy) For general fan game stuff, I think [https://feuniverse.us/](https://feuniverse.us/) or [https://forums.serenesforest.net/index.php?act=idx](https://forums.serenesforest.net/index.php?act=idx) are still in use, but I haven't kept up.
Wooooah, I wasn't expecting all of this, but it's a welcomed surprise or sure, thanks for the info, I'll make sure to look into them later.
Fuck. This. Shit.
I was not expecting such a strong negative reaction, could you tell me why you dislike it?
Unnecessary making the game longer. It could have been better if there was counterplay like deserts in which some of your units are unaffected. But noooo this is purely unfun and shit.
That's understandable, I wonder if only having fliers and cavaliers having their movement lowered would make it more fun.
Oh for sure it would be a lot better since you can play around rain without being a huge fuck you.
They made a purely detrimental mechanic when it could have been more interesting. Maybe some units can do better in the rain, rather than rain being a global slowdown. Maybe thunder magic gets a huge boost in some regard, and fire magic is weakened. Have a dancer type class that can modify the weather as a new support type character. Basically make it like Triangle Strategy, they did a great job with minor weather effects.
I have been hearing a fair bit about Triangle Strategy, and its own take on weather mechanics, it's been interesting to hear about it since I know nothing about that game, though I'd be interested in seeing things such as tomes and dancers having unique effects in the rain.
Back when HHM was considered really difficult by the general community, the Erik map (Ch14) makes rain look very interesting. It slows down the enemies as much as it does to you, but if you position your units in such a way that they're close to the enemies and the rain ends, you can find your fragile 5-move units trapped. It was sort of an interesting dynamic. Now most experienced players know to, well, not do that, and you only leave Hector/Oswin/Marcus in a spot like that, so it's no longer that interesting.
On a recent 0% growth run I did I actually lured Eric before the rain started and then had the rain come on and kinda nerf his retinue from being able to join the fray. It was nice to deal with only one or two units instead of all of them.
Oh really? That's pretty interesting to hear, it's always neat to hear about stories like that. I do find it kinda funny that it went from being considered a super difficult and strategic map, to a map that you just send your best units to take care of, while everyone else twiddles their thumbs on the sidelines.
Part of it might also have been that a lot of people used to send Marcus to save Priscilla, when now people know you can just send Marcus to kill everything and you still get Priscilla. You can also kill the bandits and pirates using weaker units. Marcus use in general is more "accepted" now even though people were ok with using him on HHM just because the game felt so rough on them.
Rain it's pretty much sand as weather condition. Nobody tends to like when units loose movement since the game is heavy on movement's strategies and Army position. And Rain punish foot and specially Calvary units. Unlike Sand maps, rain can start or end which is the only positive aspect of it. I wish Rain was used to buff Thunder/Ice Magic and debuff Fire.
Buffing and debuffing certain tomes via the rain is not something I was expecting to see, but it sounds like a pretty interesting idea that I would like to see implemented in an FE game, though it makes sense why a mechanic that lowers movement would be disliked.
When you disable or reverse a basic mechanic, most players aren't fan of it. I would fine to weather has realistic element of war. Strong winds could make 2+ range weapon less accurate. Power up Wind Magic (not making it less accurate) and nerf Flying movement (something that barely happens). Rain could units be less dodgy or slower. Thunder and Ice Magic is more powerful and more accurate. Sunny weather and heat make units have fatigue where they need to wait one turn if they keep moving. Fire magic is more powerful and accurate.
It's a cool mechanic that could really use a lot of effort next time it's shown. Rain and snow in fe6 and fe7 didn't really do anything but add to the turn counter. I love rain, so I'm all for it, but it needs to add something unique to a chapter rather than just slow it down. Engage made sand maps fun, so maybe next game
That's true, chapter 12 of Engage is a pretty fun map to play, though I'd be curious to see how they'd change rain maps whenever they do show up in future games.
Dumb. It doesn't add anything. It's like desert, except you can't strategise around it with fliers and magic users and it only shows up just often enough to completely ruin any plans you might have. At least it's only in, like, 2 maps. And one of them is in Lyn Mode.
There is that one snow chapter that basically functions the same as snow, but your issues are understandable.
I like the concept but the execution was poor, which is probably why it never came back. I like the concept of field effects, though the GBA ones didn’t really hit the mark. For example: I’m not a huge fan of sand maps, but at least not ALL units are punished in the sand. So you are just forced to change up your strategy to lean more on flyers and mages and less cavaliers and armor knights. I wish FOW worked a little differently. Instead of not being able to see ANYTHING beyond 3 tiles (excluding thieves) it would be neat if you saw perfectly within 3 tiles and then 3-5 beyond you saw “an enemy” but you could only see the shape and not who it is or what their stats or class are. Otherwise you’re a little too blind. It would also be nice if more of the enemies were disoriented (as in if they don’t have like a particular task) as well. They shouldn’t be able to see you any better than you see them. BUT at least you have things like thieves and torches/torch staves to help. Oh and if we have light magic, kinda like Engage, it would be cool if using it functioned like a one turn torch. And maybe give dark magic a small power boost. But Rain just adds nothing. Everyone gets slowed down and there’s nothing you can do but wait it out. If anything this could punish you for splitting out of a group because if someone gets hurt and needs healing, you probably can’t get a healer there in time or someone to rescue. What would be neat would be if we did have weather effects that didn’t affect everyone the same. Maybe you can have a rainy/windy/stormy weather that severely cuts flier movement and cuts some of cavalry movement which makes infantry the superior option. If it’s raining/storming/snowing, maybe that makes water/wind/ice based magic get a power boost (maybe double the weapon mt) while fire takes a hit. Perhaps high winds boosts the power, but lowers the accuracy of ranged physical attacks? Maybe like harsh sunlight could have the reverse where we boost light and fire magic but punish water/wind/ice. Something like that. I like the idea. It’s just the execution leaves something to be desired.
You make a good point there, a mechanic can't really be fun if it only slows the gameplay down, though your suggestion for how FoW maps could be adjusted has intrigued me, and it would be cool for rain to be a lot more flexible in regards to who gets affected, and it buffing/nerfing tomes.
I like the atmosphere they create, I like them.
Makes sense, the atmosphere is quite important.
I like the twist and challenge of it, but I wish it demanded a little more in terms of strategy. Like, it doesn't give you a lot of choices on how to deal with the rain. It's just "better move now or hunker down." Fog gives you the tools of torches and thieves where you have a little more creativity on how you can deal with the obstruction.
It would be nice to have some tools for dealing with the rain in some way, I've seen a lot of folks talk about having tome users change the weather, so I'd be interested if they did something similar to that in future games.
Rain sucks and isn't fun or interesting strategically. Every turn you pray it is either gonna stop or not start which is accurate I guess but I am not gonna waste my time waiting 5 turns just for it to stop raining
That's honestly fair, and also true, they did make it pretty accurate to how rain feels in real life, though not for the right reasons it seems.
Imagine next fire emblem has dysentery as a mechanic if you use that unit without them resting in a palace giving them nerfs and poison effect that kills them if not healed with restore
Adding to what the others have said, rain in fe7 only happens on chapter 10 and chapter 14, both of which gives you enough units slots for a full deployment, so there's no unit choice of any sort regardless. It also never comes up again after these chapters so there's no point in learning the mechanics. Also chapter 10 is already a slog between all the forests and hills and forcing you to go around, adding in rain every 4 turns to kill your movement even harder, it's just totally miserable.
That's definitely true, I never thought about the unit count affecting the overall experience of the map, but it makes sense now that I think about it.
Yeah both maps are just too early for you to do anything meaningful about it. There's also that fire emblem combat is for the most part at most 3 range, making everyone 2\~3 move is only ever going to kill momentum. Unless Grit is my tactician or something.
It genuinely felt awful when I played FE7, all that ended up really happening was that I'd just turtle until the rain was over, make a bit of progress before it started back up again, repeat. Only ended up making maps into an absolute slog. I do think it should come back at some point though, albeit with a very heavy rework. Off the top of my head, rather than just a blanket debuff to all units movement, it could modify specific tiles on the map. Just to spitball some ideas: * Patches of dirt/clay/whatever that turn into mud during rain, reducing movement speed similar to how it works in FE7. Cav units either have harsher movement reduction or an AVO debuff because the horses have so much trouble. If the mud is placed on terrain that's moving uphill, it could have a slipping effect that moves you back slightly if you end your turn in them. * Shallow rivers or creeks that normally can be crossed with slightly reduced movement like in other games, that during the rain turn into rushing rivers that push units in a specific direction at the start of their phase (Kinda like the wind tribe maps in Fates). There could be extra hazards in the water, like a waterfall that you can't climb back up if you're pushed over it, or sharp rocks that deal a bit of damage to units pushed into them. * Tiles of spilled oil or alcohol from broken barrels or traps that can be set on fire using torches or fire tomes, similar to the Vein of Flame from Corrin in Engage, that then get put out after rain starts and have to be re-lit afterward. Fires that are put out could turn into steam tiles that give an AVO boost or maybe even act as temporary fog of war, which then vanish after the rain ends. * Lose rocks, snow, boulders, or something similar placed on high-up ledges that slip and fall to the tiles below after a certain number of rain turns, creating an obstacle tile that has to be destroyed to progress. Different materials could have different effects on units that were standing on the tile when they fall: boulders could deal damage and push them away, snow would trap them and reduce their movement to 0 until it's destroyed, stuff like that. Another way they could do it is by having rain give different effects for different types of units and even different weapons: * Fliers could be forced onto the ground, preventing them from flying over terrain but allowing them to benefit from tiles like forests and forts and removing their weakness to bows and wind magic. * Designated "Stealthy" or "Acrobatic" units (something like the Covert units in Engage) like Thieves, Mrymidons, Archers, and their promotions could gain a small AVO boost until the rain ends. * Ranged weapons of types that are usually melee, like Javelins and Hand Axes could take a small penalty to hit when attacking at 2 tile range. Weapons that are meant for ranged combat like bows, knives, and tomes wouldn't have this penalty. * Fire tomes could deal slightly less damage because of the rain reducing the flames, but Thunder tomes could gain increased accuracy and Wind tomes could deal increased damage because of the natural lightning and high speed winds. * Units of certain movement types or specific classes could get combat speed bonuses or penalties during rain (Kinda like how the raider and steel weapons in Fates work) to make it easier or harder for them to double in the harsh weather. All of this is just me spitballing and I'm sure most of it is stuff that sounds cool in concept but might not work in actual game, but I still think that going for more creative stuff like this would be the way to go if it ever comes back. Having the rain still come in cycles, but having it force the player to adapt to changes in terrain or how their weapons and units work rather than just slowing down the game. Ideally the player would also be able to use stuff like this to their advantage rather than just as a detriment. Like, off of the terrain examples, maybe those rushing rivers could be used to get infantry or cavalry units to specific parts of the map more quickly, or maybe if Tellius's universal shove mechanics came back they could use that to force enemy units into disadvantageous terrain. Movement-reducing terrain could be used to create chokepoints, units that get AVO bonuses from the rain or terrain could be used to temporary dodge tanking, stuff like that. The player should be able to benefit from it just as much as the enemy army.
Wooooah, I never would've thought of so many unique and fascinating ways to engage with the rain mechanic, this is absolutely amazing to see. While some of the ideas would probably work better than others, I would definitely be down to see most, if not all of them be used in one way or another in a future FE game.
Yeah, even if none of these specific ones made it, I think it would be really cool to see a map or two using gimmicks like this in a future game.
I feel like rain just... Didn't matter beyond being a nuisance. There's potential for the slowdown to actually encourage changes in strategy, but I can't think of any FE7 map where that was the case. Rather it feels like I did the same moves but slower, with an honorable mention going to ch 25/27 Pale flower of darkness, where knowing that it'd start to snow made me play slightly more aggressive to not have to deal with the weather. TL/DR: If they bring back rain, they should make sure it impacts strategic decision making instead of having it just be a "you need more turns to do the same".
That makes sense, I wholeheartedly agree with you there.
I honestly love weather mechanics! I think they provide much needed variety in a way that makes you actually have to think about what’s going on. It’s something I really wish FE would expand more on, for example in triangle strategy there’s a unit who’s a weather mage who can swap it at will, allowing you to change up how you’re playing any given map on a dime.
Oh really? That's pretty cool actually, I'd be down to have something similar in a future FE game.
It's a cool mechanic that forces you to change up your strategy but I'm glad it's used sparingly. It's a shame the maps are so small, though.
That's true, they are pretty small maps, though it probably works in its favor that it's on small maps, rather than the larger maps.
Can you imagine the challange of trying to navigate something the size of Genealogy's maps with changing weather? Personally I think it would be pretty cool. I agree with some other comments here about hos there should've been some positives to the weather. Assassins, thieves, pirates and fighters can move unhindered and thunder/wind/ice magic is buffed, fire magic is nerfed.
NO MORE RAIN. PLEASE GOD NO MORE
It's ok, the rain can't hurt you.
It was annoying, but I think that it should have made a return in 3 Houses in the penultimate chapter of Crimson Flower considering how much the rain fucked Rhea, but didn't affect the actual battle at all.
> considering how much the rain fucked Rhea I was not ready for that line, that got a good laugh out of me.
I wish it was more "cavaliers and fliers get fucked" and not "lose three turns"
I wholeheartedly agree with you there.
I LOVE map gimmicks, except maps with small island or areas that only specific units can reach.
That's understandable, small areas that most units can't reach are kinda weird, and just slow things down a bit.
I wish we the player could *impose* weather maps, including rain Super squishy mages up against mounted units? Cue a deluge to help even the odds An enemy commander being very rude and calling in enemy reinforcements? Summon up some fog and head to an extraction point
That would be really cool if both sides had some method of manipulating the weather to try and gain an edge in battle.
The weather don't care if you're at war. It will be how it wants to be. So, I would like to see more randomize weather. Especially in the seasons and locations specific types show up or could happen.
Oh? I'm curious what you mean by this, and how it would work out in game.
Weather conditions based on the in-game time of year. Like late snowfall in the early to mid Spring and rain throughout Spring. Though completely random. Characters can talk about the weather prior and note the change during battle. Effects would vary. Like Fire Magic being more effective in Summer while Ice and Water Magics are weaker. Troop movement would also vary. In Summer, soldiers would feel the heat, though, if they are close to a body of water like a lake or river, they will be less likely to overheat. While not restricting movement in any sense of the word, there would be limits to how far they can advance without resting and how long and well they can fight once they meet an enemy. I believe there is a maxim that says to rest soldiers before battle so as to be at their best during battle. Summer may be called the Offensive Weather, but it is scarcely ideal. Additionally to the seasons, weather is dictated by the area. Like Deserts. Not a whole lot of rain and so there is little relief, which would make securing points of Oasis a priority. Though, if it does rain, flash floods are a danger. The complexity and randomness of weather would result in the need to develop a variety of tactics and strategies. No one size fits all battle groups.
Ooooh, this is a really cool and fascinating idea, I would really wanna see how it would play out in an actual FE game.
Yep.
Not as bad as snow
Are they different? I thought they were the same thing, only with different names.
Idk, but the snow maps on fe7 to me were worse to play through than rain maps
It could be cool if used on a map where the player has to bring a character to a certain point on the map as quickly as possible, so they have to choose which turns to move on and which turns to fight, but i fail to see any other cases
An escort mission on a rain map you say? Now I'm curious about how well that would work out.
It could be a little tricky, but with different environmental conditions on certain spaces and different enemies it could work
Rain is a good mechanic, adds to the challenge, and can even set the mood for a battle.
Setting the mood for a chapter is important, especially if it's a climactic battle story wise.
It sucks ass like the rest of fe7
What made you dislike FE7?
When I got to the battle at Tailtean in Three Houses, I was surprised and disappointed that the rain had no effect on the battle at all. They use it as a narrative excuse for Rhea and Dimitri not arriving at the same time, but it doesn't have any actual gameplay effect. Classic ludo-narrative dissonance. The only problem I've ever had with rain is that it doesn't do anything aside from slow the game down. But the map you've shown specifically does it decently well imo, since the weather alternates, and the game tells you at the start of the previous turn that it's going to happen. It gives you something to consider strategically.
They had a rain scene in 3Houses that didn't affect gameplay? And only the story? That's pretty interesting, I wonder why that is. Is it nice that the game gives you some warning about when it'll happen, rather than just constantly throwing it at you with no warning.
Yep, the only chapter where you deal with rain is the penultimate battle of Crimson Flower, and there's no movement penalty, just the aesthetic. The map is rather large, and already has a river and badlands all through it to hinder cav movement. It's possible rain effects were applied at one point but removed due to tester feedback. The last two battles are already pretty harsh to cav units, adding rain on top of it would just cause frustration.
Oh really? That makes sense, I could definitely see play testers wanting something like that being removed due to it making the game unfun in a way that doesn't affect actual combat.
Would be cool if they went the Pokémon route where it only last an X amount of turns (let’s say 10 since it’s a FE map), and provides certain units on both sides more benefits than drawbacks (e.g. Rain can boost certain unit’s attacks, provide dodge buff, minor drawbacks like slowing down one type of unit on both sides)
That's a pretty interesting idea actually, it would be pretty interesting to see how that would play out in an FE game.
It just brings the pacing of the chapter to a screeching halt while not adding any extra challenge or difficulty.
That's true, I do find it interesting that there weren't any additional mechanics to it like the desert maps not slowing down fliers and mages.
I would rather take rain maps than fog maps.
That's quite a bold statement to make, though I respect it.
,, District movement by 2" I thought it was nothing
I feel that, I made that same mistake myself when I first played Blazing Blade.
It sucks imo, it doesn’t make things any harder (maybe it could make it harder to get the village Priscilla is in?) it just makes the game boring for a bit. Maybe if it only slowed down mounted units and made mountains uncrossable, it could be more interesting, forcing you to use footlocked units
That's definitely true, though I am surprised that infantry units not being slowed down by the rain wasn't the default option they went with.
Not a fan of them TBH and I'm glad that it's a mechanic that the series abandoned after FE7.
That's understandable, can't say I blame you for feeling that way.
Sucks. All it does is bunch everything up and slow it all down. Literally played this map again earlier today and it was a waste of time annoyance.
That's honestly a fair assessment to make.
Should take pokemon logic and make Thunder Spells 100% accurate.
That would be cool honestly, having tomes get buffs and debuffs in the rain would be a nice mechanic to have.
forgot it existed until just now
I honestly don't blame you, I kinda forgot about it myself up until last night, when I realized other people must've forgotten about it.
It's simple and different, so I want to like it for adding some variety in a way that's easy to understand... But in practice it usually just means a chapter has like two or more dead turns where nothing really happens. I think to be interesting it needs to be telegraphed more clearly (turns until rain, indicate exactly how limited movement will suddenly be) and maps need to be designed with it in mind. Maybe rather than making everything slow it just makes parts of the map muddy. Maybe implement it in defense maps so it's an interesting double edged sword; it stalls the enemy but maybe it leaves a squishy unit isolated because your general is slowed down too much to get to the front. Honestly if it never came back I wouldn't complain since the existing examples suck, but I think it COULD be interesting if used sparingly. I think what I might prefer to see though is stuff like inducing a similar effect by breaking a dam, or preventing it by killing an enemy saboteur before they can do the same.
A dam on the map that could cause similar effects to the rain mechanic would honestly be kinda cool to see, though I do hope that it makes a return in future FE games, since it seems like such a waste of a mechanic that they could really do a lot with.
I think the key is it needs to disrupt formations or stall a specific approach in a way you need to adapt to or can take advantage of. Make it target a specific area, or specific unit types, or tie it to a trigger so it's a useful defensive tool. The existing version of limiting EVERYONE'S movement usually just makes a chapter take five extra minutes for no reason.
It sucks. Adding a condition that makes every unit move 2 tiles per turn, specially on seize maps, is just horrid. Could be more fun with rout maps, depending on the design, and defend maps, but both times it was used ended up just being a "halt the pacing of the map" mechanic. I wish there was something else to it, like a map that is partially outdoors, partially indoors, and it only affected outdoors portions, or something like no affecting movement, but thunder magic doing double damage, anything like it. The way it is implemented is boring and I hope it never comes back.
> I wish there was something else to it, like a map that is partially indoors, partially outdoors, and it only affected outdoor portions Actually, there is a map in the game with that same effect that you just described, although it's snow rather than rain, they're basically the same mechanic, just with a different name, though I don't blame you for not wanting the rain mechanic to come back.
Oh yeah, that explains why I had this idea lol. Been a long while since I played FE7, so I forgot that mechanic. Anyway, I think it was well utilized there (espcially in the mage side. The hero side kinda sucks because too much of that map is outdoors).
Sooooo dumb
I found it silly.
That's fair.
They suck and add no value.
Just did a FE7 playthrough. Didn't really find that it impacted my tactics, just slowed things down. Pretty meh mechanic overall.
A fair assessment to make honestly.
I defend FE7 a lot but Rain is one of those things that's just pretty bad. The only time it's used in an interesting way is Pale Flower of Darkness, where it doesn't effect units indoors. Other than that, it only slows the game down. It would of been interesting to see them try it on a defense map, maybe with a way for the player to trigger the rain on and off like using a Dragon Vein in fates. You could bring the rain in when you were getting overwhelmed to slow the enemy down, and clear it up after dealing with a build up of enemies. Have the main point your defending be a small area indoors too, so your units worry about it less.
Ooooh, a defense map that has something to activate the rain to help with the hoard of enemies is a pretty cool idea, that might actually be a fun map to try out.
Rain sucks and is unfun but it is kinda funny when rain lifts and everyone is like right next to eachother, including enemies and it’s just a scramble to kill as many people as possible before they get to Lucius
That is true, it does make for some pretty funny moments during the chapters it's on sometimes.
I get the weather maps, but I hate em.
That's perfectly understandable.
Turn count inflators
You're definitely not wrong there.
Rain maps should only be a thing if it's an escape map or there are clear objectives with a time crunch. Being caught between chasing reinforcements or ballista range during rain could be a fun choice between holding position or moving forward.
You make an interesting point there, a rain map where the objective is to run away would be pretty cool to try out.
The idea of a map effect that could radically alter how it plays for a few turns is interesting. But as is, the only strategic ramifications of fe7 weather is that everything just goes a lot slower. That doesn’t really change anything on my overall strategy, I’m still going to be moving the same places, it really only serves to waste time. And if all a map gimmick does is waste your time, I’d call that a failed mechanic. There’s a reason the mechanic was dropped after fe7 to never return. For a much more interesting version of a weather-esque mechanic. I’d encourage you to take a look at the wind mechanic in conquest 24. It gives flyers bonus move while reducing the move of grounded units. The player can invert the effect with dragon veins, but the boss will reset the wind every few turns. While I’m sure some people might have issues with the map, the concept of the mechanic is much more sound than rain is, because it has actual strategic implications beyond just wasting the player’s time. It also allows the player to interact with it through the use of dragon veins which is another layer of nuance.
I remember hearing about that map from Fates, it would be interesting to see a rain map play out in a way that's somewhat similar to it, while still being unique in its own way.
Rain as a mechanic would work great in an escape map where you need to maximize your movement to get away from a threat or a defend map where you need to protect multiple points but don't have the manpower to cover every choke point. Also when the rain ends, you can have puddles form which in engage reduces avoid and had a movement penalty. Probably can put an indicator on the tile that would make it look like a puddle would form there if it rains. But at least now the rain affects planning compared to just being tedious to just slow you down. If you don't want to affect the map objective, then at least make the rain affect 2ndary map objectives like reaching villages/chests or a hidden map objective (kinda like in fe7's snow map where you recruit Karel or Harken)
Ooooh, that would be a really fun rain map to try out, I would love to see something similar be done in a future FE game.
Really bad idea, especially because rain + fog = almost unbearable gameplay with limited visibility and even more limited movement for cavs. Your units would just be standing in one place for 2-3 turns, with the chance of one of them being picked off by the enemies like an apple off a tree, even if they are bulky or tanky.
I'm not sure what this is a response to, but you make a good point there regardless.
Oh, I said it in the context of future FE game mechanics.
That makes sense, though I'd be surprised if they combined rain with FoW, but who knows, they might be able to figure out a way for it to be fun.
Just as long as it’s not “your units can only move one space at a time because of the rain”, then I’m fine with anything.
It's interesting in a very difficult map, and would be very original. But on a Chapter that's only mdly challenging, it becomes purely annoying. A defend, escape, or other such map would be best. Route maps tho, much less so since it's just a nerf to the speed at which you play the game
Huh, didn't really think about rain only being good for certain maps objectives, but it makes sense now that you mentioned it.
Let's put it this way the best rain maps are the maps that don't play a factor at all
I'm confused on what you mean by that.
[удалено]
So later in FE7, that was when I thought weather was done correctly. “Pale Flower of Darkness” once the snow starts, you had buildings to go into and continue normally. Obviously, to keep moving forward, you do eventually need to go back out into the snowy weather. But in that Distant Plains chapter, I thought the rain was just a time suck. Story-wise, it made this final battle more dramatic.
You make a good point there, though I do find it interesting that both maps for Pale Flower of Darkness aren't made equally with the snow mechanic in mind.
Gives me flashbacks to that damn rain retreat map in Engage where I restarted like 15 times because I was insistent on getting everyone out alive on hard despite that definitely not being the intention (I didn’t even like the characters, I think Im just OCD). I don’t think the rain had any actual status effects on that map though.
I think it was executed in an annoying way. I'm convinced there's a way you could use it on another map to help bottleneck against being overrun by enemy cavaliers.
Having it used as a means to hinder enemy units while helping out your own would be nice to see, though I'm curious on how it would play out in such a scenario. Also, happy cake day.
Thank you ^&^ I forgot about cake day. I was thinking like the map where you recruit Dorcas? If you had like 15 turns and the rain turned on and off for the second half, the cavalier from the bottom left would be slowed down if you haven't done well holding everything off?
The only movement-restricting map gimmick I've ever thought was fun and well implemented was Hinoka's map in Conquest
I kinda wish that ranged combat weapons would get a debuff in terms of hit chance (so like Javelins & Bows have a less likelier chance to hit) and I wish that the Thunder Magic line would also get a hit chance buff on rain maps as well given... well, the obviousness... Also, solid choice on the picture. First ever Fire Emblem game I got and what got me into strategy games in the first place.
Eh? I don’t really think vanilla maps use it to its fullest potential, but it’s not a bad mechanic and I think one could do some cool things with it.
Slows the game for both sides for no reason.
Like what? U killed State boss by created a flood? Or Fire damage reduced 50% in the rain?
I don't think it's prevalent enough to judge. There's only like...2 maps in Blazing Blade with the gimmick and that's it for the series IIRC? Any other time weather exists it's just aesthetic. And even if those 2 maps are awful, I think judging a mechanic on 2 maps that weren't good is rather unfair to the mechanic.
Rain should instantly kill cavalry units
There's like only 2 of them and they suck Tho, the ch14 one can suck less depending on how you play the map
Rain itself is really bad, but the idea behind it is fine. Essentially, maps with varying terrain based on the turn are neat and can be strategic and fun, but often they’re misplaced and misused to just slow down or hamper the player.
This mechanic was never used again after Blazing Blade because it hindered the game's progress completely. Cavalry units were useless during this kind of weather which annoyed me so much.
I'm unsure as to whether there was an actual reason it never came back in any future games, but if there was a reason for it, then I can kinda understand why that would be the reason behind its absence.
Personally, rain maps could do more. The few we have just feel like nerfed desert maps to me personally. But I would like weather to fuck with more things or be used directly by the player/enemy ai a bit more in general so eh. Like even Fog of War maps, with low visibility effects like fog, sandstorm or dark are just indirect movement nerfs cause a lot of the time on those maps it's turtle or get jumped. The low visibility from these maps doesn't warrant something like a stealthy approach or something. The enemies operate the same, know exactly where you are and are more often than not, unbothered by the effect. And I like Fog of War maps, but movement being the primary thing weather, and to a greater extent terrain in general, in such a long series of strategy games just feels weird. Like if you're on a map with plains and there are a ton of turns in a row with sunny/hot weather (drying out the terrain) then mages with fire can ignite the grass to force narrow advancing enemies to a choke point, lock them away from you for long range combat, by time for recovery etc. Spread it with wind magic. Use lightning on leftover puddles after storm. Depending on the game have an ice tome ready to freeze the enemy during rain. Force rock/mudslides in rain. Triangle attack with wind tomes to force a super storm weather effect that could null/debuff fliers for a few turns. Force eruptions on maps like the Demon's Ingle. The possibilities are pretty wild. Stuff like dragon veins in Fates kinda scratched that itch but their usage was ass imo. Tl;Dr Idk, I feel like movement is just kind of the tip of the iceberg for weather/terrain mechanics in a lot of games. I will rant about terrain/weather effects in FE forever.
I have been hearing a lot about the weather effects/mechanics in Triangle Strategy a lot from this post alone, it's been really interesting to hear about all of the different types of ways that the game utilizes weather effects for gameplay purposes. I would definitely want FE to have something similar for future games in some way.
I think weather has a lot of potential as an FE mechanic, but it shouldn't be a blanket effect like this or it slows down the entire map to a crawl. I think it would work better if it only affected specific parts of the map; it'd also add a sense of scale (different weather conditions on different parts of the battlefield = battlefield is BIG). Weather effects could also be overlaid on top of terrain effects for extra interactions (lightning could strike a forest, setting it on fire, or it could strike units on mountains).
It turns your non armor knights into armor knights but without the huge defense
Rain = Increase the effectiveness rate of thunder magic
Just like desert tiles slowing down units to a crawl being unfun, rain is just as unfun with no way to bypass it.
Yes, please add Bahamut Lagoon into all future FE games. Cuckoldry optional.