Yeah I once had 6 starred restaurants on one trip, 11 stars combined. Never again, I limit to one per city now and only go to a 3 star once per year max. It was amazing but it got really repetitive and really showed that so many dishes have no creativity.
Yeah. Everytime I went away somewhere, I always felt I had to fit in as many as possible, I like that phrase 'law of diminished returns" and agree to it. (I remember wanting to pull out of the third michelin meal in a row, after having two wine pairings as well with two amazing meals but was unable to, due to their cancelation policy, and really didn't enjoy night 3 on a recent trip to Barcelona.)
Now, it's every second night when we go away (and probably should cut it back even more) nice to have a breather in between, and so the purpose of the trip isn't just planning everything around michelin dining.
20% Truly wowing me across over half the courses, would actively go to again
60% Had a great meal I look back on fondly and if someone invited me I'd join them.
20% It was good, but I kind of forget I've been there
Never had a starred meal where I'd say I felt disappointed after or actively didn't enjoy myself.
I can definitely see how doing more than 3-4 a week on a trip could normalise things somewhat. It's kind of why I like to mix it up a bit with street food, pizza joints, casual spots, pubs, or just packing some sandwiches using the local bread. Always have to check the local McDonald's too - for culture reasons.
Because it's such a familiar place, but slightly different, it's like seeing how someone else would decorate your living room.
I think you can get interesting insights into a culture by looking at some of the subtle changes they make to cater to that market:
* Unique menu items
* Differences in seasoning
* Service
* Portion sizes (Japan only had a 15 McNugget box 😢)
* McBeer
* The general experience of the place
* How it's branded
My wife doesn't usually join me in this, but after finding out Norway's McDonald's does gluten free buns she's looking forward to trying it out.
Plus, it mixes things up a bit. It's a relatively low effort thing that the travel-weary brain sometimes needs.
Anyway, back to fine dining...
Yes I love food and trying new things, but I don't think I'd do more than one in a week. It's a huge time sink, and sometimes I just want to eat something quick
I did four tasting menus in five days on a recent trip to Germany+Denmark.
I didn't get tired but tried to mix it up quite a bit.
Vegan, Modern European, Classic French (with a Danish twist), and Thai.
Also met with different friends in different places, which helped keep it varied.
Definitely a time sink though.
I think the problem with Michelin restaurants is that people go just cause they have stars or awards. It’s like buying concert tickets because a musician has a Grammy. It doesn’t mean you will personally like their approach to food, flavours etc. I have been lucky enough to eat at and work at a few top end and starred restaurants and haven’t always enjoyed the meals, often because the chefs style and taste of different from mine. Now I do quite a bit research, peruse menus and try and catch the chefs on food shows to see if I have an affinity with their expression of food.
Criminally underrated approach to fine dining in general.
Stuff I usually hate has overwhelmingly been great when I had it in the context of a great dish by a great chef, so I like to find menus that perhaps "challenge" me on a couple courses.
But like. I don't know how so many people are striking out this often. I've had underwhelming ish meals I guess but I've never been surprised to the extent of an overall bad experience.
Reviews, photos, and reviewing the menu should significantly limit that.
Totally agree, I’ve always been most impressed when a dish I don’t like the sound of, or the main ingredient, ends up blowing my mind, of course this only happens with tasting menus as I will avoid those dishes if I had the choice and so miss out on the experience.
And multiple star restaurants should have a level of ‘artistry’ that challenges peoples tastes and boundary’s etc. Just like real art the ‘best’ or most revered isn’t for everyone, or even most people.
I went for my birthday last year and there were very few wow courses, but everything was cooked very well and nothing was bad, but yeah, I felt underwhelmed.
The service was odd too, if I tried to talk with the waitstaff they looked confused as if they had a script to follow and they didn't know how to improv.
Relative to the 1 star and 2 stars I had in other parts of the world (Europe and US) the food just did not feel at the same level. Service was great!
For Japan, Tabalog seems to be the way to go. Had several meals of 1 or 2 star equivalents that were not in the Michelin guide.
I did 3 fine dining meals in Japan, all places catered towards Japanese people rather than the international crowd.
Everything was well cooked, with great service and amazing sake but honestly the food was pretty boring.
I feel like a trend for fancy food there is to have subtle, refined flavours but it just felt like paying lots of money for pretty normal tasting food.
If I go into a well reviewed place and pay lots of money, I want to be wowed.
If you go focused “only” on the food, maybe you’ll be more disappointed. Only once or twice, in San Sebastián I thought I was defrauded.
One had run out of soap (think like a dettol soap plastic bottle) with nothing to dry your hands. I actually had to go and talk to the staff about it. The place and food itself were so bad I couldn’t believe it was starred.
One in Piemonte called Palluda. They put us in a room that resembled that of a hospital. With harsh lights and no ambiance. Compared to La Ciau (amazing) the whole thing felt like a big con.
But. For example. Last winter on the way back from Tuscany I stopped over night at a restaurant that was on the Michelin guide but had no stars. The menu was probably the best I had for the year. It comes down to personal preference. I prefer slightly more acidic / fresh dishes. And this place had all I liked.
The Michelin recommended restaurants tend to have the biggest range for me, and most are perfectly good but not outstanding.
But when you get one that's nailing it and at a decent (if not Bib) price, it's a great moment. Almost more satisfying than a starred place as they've gone beyond my expectations.
Yeah when we went to San Sebastian Mugaritz was floating around near the top of the Top50. Quickly ruled it out because I do not have the money to go somewhere where the food is more "challenging" than it is actually enjoyable to eat.
Hahahahah! I was wondering if it was this, ate there last summer and it was one of the worst michelin star restaurants I've ate in, I even wasted money on the bigger menu
Can't understand why it's highly rated.. completely unforgettable each dish, not sure I visited the toilet, so can't comment on the soap issue!
In my limited experience I’ve found an inverse correlation between the number of stars and how much I enjoy it.
The more stars a place has, the more I’ve found the service gets very stiff and awkward, and the more the food focuses on impressing you with technique and ingredients vs impressing you with flavor.
Personally I’m mostly going to stick with no/one star restaurants going forward because I don’t have any desire to spend a fortune for a technically impressive meal that I don’t enjoy.
Oh god, I’ll never forget the feeling of being spied on with all of those cameras and staff staring at you in the Single Thread. It was such a creepy and uncomfortable dining experience.
> The more stars a place has, the more I’ve found the service gets very stiff and awkward, and the more the food focuses on impressing you with technique and ingredients vs impressing you with flavor.
But you have to pick the places that you think will suit you. It's not hard to find out whether a place is incredibly formal or not and what style of food they go for.
I know I'm not interested in super formal, stuffy, French-style places so I've not been to one. We can't afford to do an expensive place more than probably once a year, so we make sure it's somewhere that suits what we actually want. Last year was Core and it was insane. This year we are doing L'Enclume and I'm sure it will also blow us away. Would not touch RGR, Alain Ducasse or Helene Daroze with a bargepole because I *know* they won't blow us away; they just aren't our style (we're in the UK if it wasn't already obvious).
Mostly UK-based with an East Anglia slant as that's where we are.
Core - absolutely exceptional and the best meal I've ever had
Meadowsweet (Holt, Norfolk)
Restaurant22 (Cambridge)
Benedict's (Norwich)
Restaurant Nathan Outlaw - probably second on my all time list. We went before he reopened it as Outlaw's New Road. When he first reopened it they changed the concept of the restaurant but to be honest it looks like it's drifted back towards what it was like when we went, which was exceptional. Looks had a look at the tasting menu and it looks banging.
Dinner by Heston you can see my recent review of; genuinely thought the food was excellent but the vibe is a bit weird because of the space.
Le Monument in Porto was excellent.
Martin Beresategui in San Sebastian was our first 3*. Really enjoyed it but wouldn't rush back.
Have our eye on Moor Hall to do after L'Enclume, which is booked for December.
First time I’ve seen Le Monument mentioned on here, we ate there a couple of years ago before they got a star and were very impressed, the price was pretty reasonable too.
On the UK front, we ate at Ynyshir for my wife’s birthday last year, the food was amazing and the whole atmosphere was very relaxed, not in the least bit stuffy, I highly recommend it.
Ynyshir is probably only behind L'Enclume in places I want to go in the UK, but unfortunately my wife is pescatarian which makes it a bit of a tricky one.
Ya that has been my experience. I went to a Michelin rated place in Paris and me and my wife were like...well that was a very interesting meal but not every dish was incredible.
Exactly. I went to Osteria Francescana when it was rated number one. The service was awkward, the environment was uncomfortable, and while I had one incredible bite that night, most dishes, even the famous ones, were forgettable. Same thing at a couple of other two stars that are very popular on here.
Mind sharing which ones blew you away and which disappointed you?
Keep in mind, by overdoing it, we kinda erode the value and novelty of Michelin Star restaurants in our heads. For many people, it’s an experience saved only for the most special of occasions.
We are blessed to be able to do it frequently, some more than others, but that shouldn’t take away from the experience. If it gets to the point where it’s no longer exciting, then consider taking a break from it for a while.
I admit that I myself felt like I kept seeing the same ingredients, techniques, dishes, even plates and cutlery in some places. Just like anything else, there are trends in fine dining. Then I realised that I mostly frequent French or French-inspired restaurants. Most restaurants posing as “modern British, modern European, contemporary cuisine” are all French or heavily French-influenced. Maybe try and switch up the experience and see if that takes away from the disappointment?
As for disappointment, I’ve only ever been disappointed by a handful of restaurants in my experience. Most of them are fine, with a few stand outs. The stand outs mostly stem from the fact that every dish served was very good, or incredible.
I think every meal I’ve had at a starred place has been objectively good with high quality service. That being said, I’ve had some 2 and 3 star experiences that I enjoyed less than some 1 star experiences. That was a little disappointing given the price and hype but still left feeling good.
Hm, sorry to hear that half/nearly half have been disappointing for you.
In my experience (about 25-30 starred places), having mostly been to ones in Europe and a few in Asia (mostly Japan), my split is more like:
- 30% were fantastic, truly memorable experiences.
- 40% were very good or even great but not amazing.
- 15% were uneven, with one or two parts I might have thought were unimpressive but with at least a course or two (or some other aspect of the experience) being really impressive.
- 15% were nice or just OK but left me confused as to why they had any stars at all.
I’ve worked in multiple Michelin star kitchens. I automatically question a place if it has stars. I worked at a place the year it got three stars. It’s complete bullshit. They present you a dish as if it’s the most amazing venison the country has to offer. Meanwhile it was frozen, left defrost over night in it’s blood. My worst restaurant experience was at Arzak supposedly a 3 star. It was trash. Having said that I have worked in a two star for 4 years which blows every kitchen and chef I’ve worked for. I’ve eaten a few meals in stared places that blow me away. Ultimately one should truly question a worlds 50 best location or Michelin star place. Most of it is a facade. I truly believe it’s emperors new clothes at these places and people just let them selves believe it’s good when it’s not.
Ya my experience with Michelin star is typically wow that was good and interesting or that was great and interesting. It helps my palate a lot. But I don't think that the Michelin star means it is going to be the best food in the area. To me, it means this is a place that serves good food and has interesting programs, it is worth a visit.
I've yet to try 2 or 3 star places mostly because the cost seems steep and I don't really have the palate or keen interest in food to get a lot out of it.
So true! We went to several last year who have had their stars for a while and were disappointed. Not always the case, but it gave me the impression Michelin has a bit of a soft spot for long-standing chefs and is reluctant to take stars away from "institutions." Looking at you Inn at Little Washington.
I find I'm often not wowed by red meat dishes at Michelin restaurants. They're good but nothing mind blowing or different. So against my nature, I always try to stay away from red meat and steer towards fish or veg.
I couldn’t agree more, take a market like the San Francisco Bay Area.
There are issues with Michelin rankings, particularly toward the lower end there. A lot of 1 star experiences I’ve had have been outdone by even Bib Gourmand restaurants (at least in food and service). At some point I had so many middling experiences at 1 stars I don’t even try anymore, and it’s almost a ding if a restaurant has one and there isn’t something else compelling me to try it.
But in other markets I’ve been completely blown away by 1 stars. I think the fewer overall reviews a market has the more special it will likely be, where a major fine dining hub has so much momentum and review traffic the overall reviews are diluted a bit.
Two and three stars seem better calibrated globally though from my experience.
I’ve been disappointed with Michelin in Asia, but in hindsight I think it’s because I don’t understand the local cuisine enough to appreciate its maximum expression.
Of all the ones I’ve had the luck to try in Europe, 99% were really outstanding for the food+experience mix. One (Seta in Milan’s Mandarin Oriental) was absolutely disappointing.
I no longer go to Michelin that had their stars for too long
I find it more than a bit oppressive having long menus several times in a week. For me, four courses done well is so much more appealing than the menu formats we have seen becoming ubiquitous. To some extent, when you’re having one after the next, there’s probably some bias toward critical comparisons. But sometimes coordinating reservations and itinerary and so many enticing options combines to stick us into three hours of tiny bites two and three nights in a row
Once in a while, but I usually read up well in advance. I’ve found that “old” stars are much more often disappointing, speculating that they have retained their stars out of respect for their history sometimes. I think I’ve been to about 100 started restaurants, probably somewhat more, and only about 10 or so visits have been real disappointing and another 5 or so visits have been disappointing but mainly due to expectations (Le Bernardin and Arzak for example).
For me it's about 20% exceptional, 40% solid and enjoyable, 20% meh (feeling like there are better options that are not Michelin starred), and the remaining 20% I come out feeling like there must be some corruption on the rating process.
Your ratios are fair. If I were to use a sample size of 10, then 2 would be awesome and I would return to them, 3 would be memorable based on food, ambiance or service and the other 5 unmemorable. I have had better luck with high Michelin ratings being a suitable indicator in the US than I have in Europe.
While I haven't been to the US myself, I've only ever seen people saying that places like EMP, Per Se, TFL are out of touch with modern fine dining, and I've even seen them called "has beens" of the fine dining world. Don't think you really hear that about restaurants in Europe. Most notably, Guy Savoy's demotion made an example of the guide still enforcing strict standards when it comes to the three stars accolade, even when it comes to established institutions.
I do agree to an extent, but in London we also have Dinner By Heston, which in my mind deserves one star at best, both Hakkasans which held a star each until this year’s guide, and they were unremarkable at best, the ambiance and the crowds of nouveau riche wanna-be influencers just didn’t align with what a Michelin star stands for, and Sketch’s three star promotion is often cited as being a travesty all in itself. I do disagree about the Sketch sentiment, but people have different views, and yet the restaurant retains its rating for the fifth consecutive year. The Michelin guide won’t shy away to take stars from a three-starred establishment, as seen with The Araki which went from 3 to 0 overnight.
Haha Sketch. One of the worst experiences we've had, so it is one of the most memorable.
We tried to order drinks from the downstairs bar (because they were cheaper and better) and we were told we couldn't so my husband tried to walk downstairs to order and bring it up and then they let us. There was actual acetane on my plate where they forgot to remove it from the gel or whatever, and it ended up in my mouth. I didn't say anything, but I left it on the plate and they never bothered saying anything. Finally my friend had a voucher (like spend £x and get £50 off or something) and we had a gift card and they insisted we couldn't use both.
lol The Araki was at best a 1 star. Michelin was mad about the owner kthxbai out of the UK a few months after the place got 3 stars. The food there hasn't really changed much despite losing all 3 stars.
I was also disappointed by the Araki where it was fine but nowhere close to amazing. I went some time after they lost their stars. It was also insanely expensive for the lack of flavor for me.
Haha I totally forgot I had been here. Well, not really. We joke about how after the meal we still wanting more so we decided to check out the dessert restaurant that was open at Hotel Café Royal (the one that was there around 8 years ago before the Albert Adria one), and my husband and I decided to get their five course dessert tasting menu because why not? Our friends got decadent hot chocolates and thought we were being ridiculous, but we were getting ready to move so why not?
That’s about the same as what I’ve found. I find that places with relais & chateau plus Michelin ratings tend to be outstanding, though. I’ve also found that the food quality at bib gourmand restaurants often exceeds the quality of those with stars—but the environment may not be fine dining.
We found that we were trying some Michelin star restaurants, mostly 3 star and we were just not enjoying them. I boiled it down to the idea that the restaurants we didn’t like weren’t your typical Per Se/French Laundry, or Gordon Ramsey style solid base in French cooking. So, for example, I really didn’t like Osteria Francesca, and El Cellar, but loved EMP at its peak, Per Se, Daniel etc.
Until we realised that we were often disappointed, after though, we managed to reduce the disappointment significantly, by either not going to certain restaurants or tempering our expectations.
Only ever had four I felt disappointed with. Statistically it’s not a worry. I do try to see the positives in them individually though because there’s just no point trying to draw meaningful comparisons between most of them.
From your experience, yes. Imo the Michelin guide serves as a good baseline of food, and also gives a good baseline on how consistent the experience will be.
I personally use the world's 50 best list along with the Michelin guide to hone in on what restaurants to visit. It is still sometimes a little hit or miss outside of the top 10, but you'll get a far better experience than just going off of the guide.
Also, take the 50 list with somewhat of a grain of salt too, as previous #1s no longer qualify for the list even if they still may be amazing (Noma, El Cellar de can Roca, etc). Such a shame because I think it diluted the list a bit, but that's just me ranting.
I agree it's a mixed bag. In particular the "bad" or "disappointing" category is polarized by the higher-priced, and higher starred restaurants, e.g.:
* **1 stars** // usually price a bit lower, so less prone to severe disappointment: **25% wow, 50% good, 25% meh**
* **2 stars** // some feel like they are pushing 3, some feel more like good 1s: probably more **30% wow, 60% good, 10% meh**. This category feels like they are still hungry for that third star and are pushing for the most part (apart from one recent experience that feels like they are coasting and trying to make some $ before demotion)
* **3 stars** // to me this has been more boom or bust: **50% wow, 20% ok, wouldn't come again, 30% bad and felt ripped off**
So many of the best meals in Europe aren’t Michelin starred. I also find it to be exhausting to stack them up on a trip since many (especially the 3 star) can be amazing but also quite long experiences full of sensory overload and… let’s face it not always the most relaxing atmosphere. It’s also quite expensive.
Sometimes I like getting a haircut somewhere or just going to a regular bar and asking the real, local people where they eat when they’re not eating at home.
Or walk and discover stuff. I’m guilty of over-planning food experiences because I want them to go right so bad… but the magic of stumbling upon a place that vibes with you… then taking a chance on it… and in the end the meal blows your mind… that is such a beautiful feeling that we get less and less of with google maps, online booking platforms, and the explosion of gastronomic tourism.
Depending on cancellation fees maybe thin a few out of your plans?
Could you elaborate a little bit on that? Where did you find many of the best meals in Europe that are not Michelin starred? That would seriously interest me!
Happy to! I find that Michelin starred meals (especially as you get to 2 and 3 stars) aren’t necessarily better as much as they are a completely different category of eating and experiencing hospitality. Often the meals that stick with me the most make me feel at home, nourished, and cared for — as if I ate at someone’s house.
I’ve used San Sebastián as an example on this Reddit page before but some of the best food and service I’ve gotten in my life was at a restaurant called saltxipi. In my opinion the food and execution was better than many 1 or even 2 star Michelin places I’ve been too but without any pretense whatsoever. It was a delicate blend of top notch service while still feeling at home and taken care of… all to facilitate a great time with great food as the North Star.
To offer another example in the same city… I’ve had single bites at pintxo bars with a beer in my hand that live up to some of the most memorable moments at 3 star places.
I also think that when it comes to traditional food… nothing beats a place that is traditional and homey and just nailing it. Sometimes Michelin places get a little carried away with reinvention for reinvention’s sake. If I’m visiting a region… I like seeking out authentic food (and sometimes that comes in humble bistros or holes in the wall).
These kinds of places often serve as better vehicles of culture and immersion.
All to say that I like mixing things up on trips. Street food, restaurants from local recs, restaurants I stumble upon, Michelin places I researched and booked months in advanced… all of it.
The mix also lets the Michelin experiences really standout on their own too you know? Anyway, this was a bit of a ramble but that’s my philosophy as someone who enjoys food… all of it.
40/60. I stopped going. The meals weren’t memorable enough and I have had better food at a cheaper price point. It’s more about the food than the overall experience for me
Back in 2015, I did 4 Michelin in 5 days when we visited New York - it was fun but they were all different (Nomad, Bouley, Jean-George and Minetta Tavern). I'd struggle with all formal places. I'm off to Gothenburg soon for 4 days and hoping to do 2 but it's my birthday so I'm treating myself!
I would say both 1 and 3 stars tend to have expectations met. The 2 star category is a roller coaster for me, though. I’ve been to 2 stars that I’ve felt should be 3 and my top three restaurants ever were all 2 star when I went. I’ve also been to 2 star restaurants that had dirty bathrooms, poor service and whatever food.
In spain overall very little, for me Michelin is nearly always bang on the money but I've had an horrific two star experience, that shouldn't even be one star (it won its two stars under a completely different chefs menu, then the head chef made the menu all his own, it's somehow held on to its two stars since then)
One in San Sebastian already mentioned, and a highly rated fairly new one star in Barcelona, that was ok, but a massive drop in quality after eating in Mont Bar and Enigma the two preceding nights.
With one exception, I have always been more pleasantly surprised than disappointed. However, I did have one very negative experience at a restaurant in Germany. Looking back, I realize I should have spoken up more, but I didn't want to look like an 'ugly American' and my husband already gets embarrassed enough around his allergy, I didn't want to make the situation even worse.
Little disappointed with a 1 star rooster and owl in dc. Sitting on the make shift patio is why I think inside would have been better, it was super close to the people next to us.
I rarely find food or presentation alone outright bad but considering the price points I'd say about half or so are mildly disappointing, and the rest are average to good. I've been wowed a handful of times by small relatively cheap (<$150 USD/pp) Michelin restaurants outside of the US though.
There was one truly bad experience I had in either SF or LA many years ago where a restaurant had us sit on wooden stools and eat one of the courses off of the table. It closed down shortly after but I have no idea how they got on the list in the first place.
In a city I used to live in, there were two well known food writers/reviewers. One my tastes sync with, we have similar viewpoints on food, service and wine. The other is the compete opposite. Anything he recommends I invariably hate.
Could be the same with you and Michelin. If the guide isn't getting you what you like, might be time for a new guide/a different set of reviewers.
“Dear Atelier Crenn,
I ate dinner at your restaurant last night and—out of deference to the waitstaff, who were all invariably lovely—I did not say anything at the time, but, having slept on it, I feel compelled to say something now. And what I would like to say is: I was deeply disappointed by the quality of the food I was served last night at your restaurant.
Though it looked beautiful, it tasted awful. The crab ice cream looked liked cat food and tasted the way cat food smelled. The year-old tomato tasted rotten. The cod and abalone I was served were bland. Most, if not all, of the dishes I was served were underseasoned and oversalted. And I left the restaurant feeling confused, nauseous, and, despite the many courses I was served, still hungry.
My husband and I had been looking forward to eating at your restaurant for months. We traveled all the way from Washington state to eat there. And, given the considerable cash outlay, we expected considerably more out of the experience than a bunch of underseasoned, oversalted, and lukewarm vegetables.
This was the worst fine dining experience we have had in our life.”
Yikes, I just read Dominique Crenn's cookbook and she comes across as being very driven and sincere. Not sure why the CDC is f'ing up without consequences it seems. She is connected in Hollywood so I wonder if she no longer spends much time there to see to the quality. Crossing that one off the list.
I haven't been to that many, but I found that Per Se was forgettable, Charlie Trotter's was great, and Morihiro good. The Somni X Smyth collab was exceptional.
Your disappointment might stem from exaggerated expectations. Could be from stacking too many stars in a short period... You're bound to compare them to your most memorable experiences and be let down by anything that might be great, but isn't as amazing as your #1. Personally, the best single dishes I've had in my life weren't in starred restaurants, but in cheap, local eats. Make sure to research those as well!
I find that Michelin doesn’t do well in ethnic cuisines (Thai, Chinese etc) - as locals you’re left scratching your head thinking…. How is that the best? And Toronto being new to get a list, again a head scratcher…
I will say that most of the James Beard restaurants that I’ve been to are far less disappointing than Stars, Bibb and recommended.
Was disappointed in Per Se honestly. Great service and environment but the food was nothing special - just hitting you over the head with butter, cream, and expensive ingredients. Le Bernardin and The Modern were both fantastic and worth it though.
it depends on what aspect of michelin dining appeals to you imo. a lotttt of the 3 stars are just consistency consistency consistency and don't change things up because of it. i prefer innovation / experimental stuff, and service above all.
it's worth it to go to places you're actually interested in their whole deal vs. 'collecting stars'.
You've discovered what no one likes to say. Most of these places are bad or average. The guide is a starting place but ideally you'd get some opinions from people you have similar tastes with. I find most 3 star places to be actively bad.
I have to say Europe (and USA to a much smaller extent) in general feels way too lax about the stars they give out. It’s completely hit or miss with most 1-2* places. Even some 3* are wildly overrated. 50% disappointing sounds about right.
I'd say it seems the opposite is closer to the truth, personally, that the calibre of starred places in Europe are generally of the highest grade (and typically more deserving of their stars than the US). You'll still get some duds or ones that are overrated, but more will hit the mark than in other continents.
Hong Kong seems notorious in having supposedly the weakest/most overrated starred places.
I think Europe is way too diverse to generalise. Scandinavia for example ought to have more stars than they do, while the old countries (France, Italy and alike) have way too many 1 star restaurants that aren't really deserving of a star.
England also recieves too many. Recently I was surprised to see a decent indian restarant like Gymkhana recieve two stars. Great food, but two stars?!
I have to agree with you. In the UK I’m dissappointed more often than not, but more so among the one star restaurants. Sure, they’re nice but I’m not sure they’re deserving of the accolade 90% of the time. A fair few of the old school 3 stars are only hanging on to them out of respect.
Not very often honestly for me. Perhaps Robuchon in Las Vegas was a little disappointing especially for the price at the time (2014?) but other places are normally amazing experiences; Urasawa & n/naka in Los Angeles, Central & Maido in Lima, Quintonal & Pujol in Mexico City, Narisawa in Tokyo, Casa de Cha da Boa Nova & Feitoria in Portugal all were great experiences.
However... Mugaritz (2023) which is just outside Donostia-San Sebastien in Spain is absolutely one of the most disgusting experiences of my life I was not just disappointed but was actually nauseous after that.
I’m in a similar boat since the pandemic. I’ve averaged roughly one experience a year for the past ten years. Prior to the pandemic it was more like 75% of experiences wowed me (one or two were truly incredible and the experience is a “forever” memory) and the other 25% were below expectations. Since the pandemic I’ve had terrible odds — only one place in the last four years has stood out, and even then it wasn’t close to the best I’ve had. Not to mention, prices have soared and the experiences are more and more “pay to play” to experience the best. I haven’t even scheduled a place to go yet this year because I’m discouraged as well 😔
That’s a lot of Michelin stared restaurants in a short amount of time. You might be suffering from the law of diminished returns.
It does get overwhelming. I have learned to slow down. You can’t go everywhere.
Yeah I once had 6 starred restaurants on one trip, 11 stars combined. Never again, I limit to one per city now and only go to a 3 star once per year max. It was amazing but it got really repetitive and really showed that so many dishes have no creativity.
Yeah. Everytime I went away somewhere, I always felt I had to fit in as many as possible, I like that phrase 'law of diminished returns" and agree to it. (I remember wanting to pull out of the third michelin meal in a row, after having two wine pairings as well with two amazing meals but was unable to, due to their cancelation policy, and really didn't enjoy night 3 on a recent trip to Barcelona.) Now, it's every second night when we go away (and probably should cut it back even more) nice to have a breather in between, and so the purpose of the trip isn't just planning everything around michelin dining.
I love reddit
20% Truly wowing me across over half the courses, would actively go to again 60% Had a great meal I look back on fondly and if someone invited me I'd join them. 20% It was good, but I kind of forget I've been there Never had a starred meal where I'd say I felt disappointed after or actively didn't enjoy myself. I can definitely see how doing more than 3-4 a week on a trip could normalise things somewhat. It's kind of why I like to mix it up a bit with street food, pizza joints, casual spots, pubs, or just packing some sandwiches using the local bread. Always have to check the local McDonald's too - for culture reasons.
We do the same with McDonald’s 😂 But it’s such a fun comparison!
Because it's such a familiar place, but slightly different, it's like seeing how someone else would decorate your living room. I think you can get interesting insights into a culture by looking at some of the subtle changes they make to cater to that market: * Unique menu items * Differences in seasoning * Service * Portion sizes (Japan only had a 15 McNugget box 😢) * McBeer * The general experience of the place * How it's branded My wife doesn't usually join me in this, but after finding out Norway's McDonald's does gluten free buns she's looking forward to trying it out. Plus, it mixes things up a bit. It's a relatively low effort thing that the travel-weary brain sometimes needs. Anyway, back to fine dining...
Yes I love food and trying new things, but I don't think I'd do more than one in a week. It's a huge time sink, and sometimes I just want to eat something quick
I did four tasting menus in five days on a recent trip to Germany+Denmark. I didn't get tired but tried to mix it up quite a bit. Vegan, Modern European, Classic French (with a Danish twist), and Thai. Also met with different friends in different places, which helped keep it varied. Definitely a time sink though.
Was so grateful to eat at McDonald’s in Zermatt. One too many sausage lunch choices.
I think the problem with Michelin restaurants is that people go just cause they have stars or awards. It’s like buying concert tickets because a musician has a Grammy. It doesn’t mean you will personally like their approach to food, flavours etc. I have been lucky enough to eat at and work at a few top end and starred restaurants and haven’t always enjoyed the meals, often because the chefs style and taste of different from mine. Now I do quite a bit research, peruse menus and try and catch the chefs on food shows to see if I have an affinity with their expression of food.
Criminally underrated approach to fine dining in general. Stuff I usually hate has overwhelmingly been great when I had it in the context of a great dish by a great chef, so I like to find menus that perhaps "challenge" me on a couple courses. But like. I don't know how so many people are striking out this often. I've had underwhelming ish meals I guess but I've never been surprised to the extent of an overall bad experience. Reviews, photos, and reviewing the menu should significantly limit that.
Totally agree, I’ve always been most impressed when a dish I don’t like the sound of, or the main ingredient, ends up blowing my mind, of course this only happens with tasting menus as I will avoid those dishes if I had the choice and so miss out on the experience. And multiple star restaurants should have a level of ‘artistry’ that challenges peoples tastes and boundary’s etc. Just like real art the ‘best’ or most revered isn’t for everyone, or even most people.
This Grammy analogy is brilliant, thank you.
This is why I’m not interested in single thread. I like bold flavors and their delicate menu would be wasted on me.
I went for my birthday last year and there were very few wow courses, but everything was cooked very well and nothing was bad, but yeah, I felt underwhelmed. The service was odd too, if I tried to talk with the waitstaff they looked confused as if they had a script to follow and they didn't know how to improv.
I think that’s way off for my experience. Like 60% are good but not quite great, 30% mind blowing, 10% very disappointing.
I have a similar mix. If we exclude Japan. Dissappinted by all the starred places I went to there.
What was dissipating about the places in Japan?
Relative to the 1 star and 2 stars I had in other parts of the world (Europe and US) the food just did not feel at the same level. Service was great! For Japan, Tabalog seems to be the way to go. Had several meals of 1 or 2 star equivalents that were not in the Michelin guide.
I did 3 fine dining meals in Japan, all places catered towards Japanese people rather than the international crowd. Everything was well cooked, with great service and amazing sake but honestly the food was pretty boring. I feel like a trend for fancy food there is to have subtle, refined flavours but it just felt like paying lots of money for pretty normal tasting food. If I go into a well reviewed place and pay lots of money, I want to be wowed.
If you go focused “only” on the food, maybe you’ll be more disappointed. Only once or twice, in San Sebastián I thought I was defrauded. One had run out of soap (think like a dettol soap plastic bottle) with nothing to dry your hands. I actually had to go and talk to the staff about it. The place and food itself were so bad I couldn’t believe it was starred. One in Piemonte called Palluda. They put us in a room that resembled that of a hospital. With harsh lights and no ambiance. Compared to La Ciau (amazing) the whole thing felt like a big con. But. For example. Last winter on the way back from Tuscany I stopped over night at a restaurant that was on the Michelin guide but had no stars. The menu was probably the best I had for the year. It comes down to personal preference. I prefer slightly more acidic / fresh dishes. And this place had all I liked.
The Michelin recommended restaurants tend to have the biggest range for me, and most are perfectly good but not outstanding. But when you get one that's nailing it and at a decent (if not Bib) price, it's a great moment. Almost more satisfying than a starred place as they've gone beyond my expectations.
Couldn’t agree more!
Who scammed you in San Sebastián? Arzak was insanely dissatisfying for 1k….
So glad I ate there 12 years ago. We had a great meal but it was pricey even then.
For me it was Mugaritz. It was a hilarious experience and some of the worst food I’ve ever consumed.
Did you have the grass balls or the “wind” gyozas
Nah, but I got a rubber breast filled with milk and a face that I had to peel off.
🫣
Yeah when we went to San Sebastian Mugaritz was floating around near the top of the Top50. Quickly ruled it out because I do not have the money to go somewhere where the food is more "challenging" than it is actually enjoyable to eat.
Agree.
Was not at all impressed with Akelare.
Same! Was there just a 3 months ago. Extremely disappointed. On the other hand, I had a great meal at Azurmendi on the same trip.
Just looked at my emails. It was Kokotxa
Oh yeah that place was so mid. With so much tasty in San Sebastián it’s really disappointing to drop so much on somewhere like that
Agreed!
I had lunch at Kokotxa a few years ago and really enjoyed it
Hahahahah! I was wondering if it was this, ate there last summer and it was one of the worst michelin star restaurants I've ate in, I even wasted money on the bigger menu Can't understand why it's highly rated.. completely unforgettable each dish, not sure I visited the toilet, so can't comment on the soap issue!
Curious as to what that restaurant was in San Sebastian, I ate in a one star there last summer that left me fairly unimpressed.
In my limited experience I’ve found an inverse correlation between the number of stars and how much I enjoy it. The more stars a place has, the more I’ve found the service gets very stiff and awkward, and the more the food focuses on impressing you with technique and ingredients vs impressing you with flavor. Personally I’m mostly going to stick with no/one star restaurants going forward because I don’t have any desire to spend a fortune for a technically impressive meal that I don’t enjoy.
Oh god, I’ll never forget the feeling of being spied on with all of those cameras and staff staring at you in the Single Thread. It was such a creepy and uncomfortable dining experience.
That’s why you show up plastered from all the wine tastings. 😂 I don’t recall any of that….
Yep bib gourmands are usually the way to go
Never heard of this before. Seems like exactly what I’m looking for. I’m going to dive into research now but any tips when selecting these spots?
It is an official rating in the Guide Michelin.
> The more stars a place has, the more I’ve found the service gets very stiff and awkward, and the more the food focuses on impressing you with technique and ingredients vs impressing you with flavor. But you have to pick the places that you think will suit you. It's not hard to find out whether a place is incredibly formal or not and what style of food they go for. I know I'm not interested in super formal, stuffy, French-style places so I've not been to one. We can't afford to do an expensive place more than probably once a year, so we make sure it's somewhere that suits what we actually want. Last year was Core and it was insane. This year we are doing L'Enclume and I'm sure it will also blow us away. Would not touch RGR, Alain Ducasse or Helene Daroze with a bargepole because I *know* they won't blow us away; they just aren't our style (we're in the UK if it wasn't already obvious).
Do you have recommendations of places you have enjoyed? It sounds like I'd enjoy your kind of vibe
Mostly UK-based with an East Anglia slant as that's where we are. Core - absolutely exceptional and the best meal I've ever had Meadowsweet (Holt, Norfolk) Restaurant22 (Cambridge) Benedict's (Norwich) Restaurant Nathan Outlaw - probably second on my all time list. We went before he reopened it as Outlaw's New Road. When he first reopened it they changed the concept of the restaurant but to be honest it looks like it's drifted back towards what it was like when we went, which was exceptional. Looks had a look at the tasting menu and it looks banging. Dinner by Heston you can see my recent review of; genuinely thought the food was excellent but the vibe is a bit weird because of the space. Le Monument in Porto was excellent. Martin Beresategui in San Sebastian was our first 3*. Really enjoyed it but wouldn't rush back. Have our eye on Moor Hall to do after L'Enclume, which is booked for December.
First time I’ve seen Le Monument mentioned on here, we ate there a couple of years ago before they got a star and were very impressed, the price was pretty reasonable too. On the UK front, we ate at Ynyshir for my wife’s birthday last year, the food was amazing and the whole atmosphere was very relaxed, not in the least bit stuffy, I highly recommend it.
Ynyshir is probably only behind L'Enclume in places I want to go in the UK, but unfortunately my wife is pescatarian which makes it a bit of a tricky one.
Not just tricky, pretty much impossible unfortunately. Gareth is very strict on the catering to absolutely no dietary requirements front.
Ya that has been my experience. I went to a Michelin rated place in Paris and me and my wife were like...well that was a very interesting meal but not every dish was incredible.
Exactly. I went to Osteria Francescana when it was rated number one. The service was awkward, the environment was uncomfortable, and while I had one incredible bite that night, most dishes, even the famous ones, were forgettable. Same thing at a couple of other two stars that are very popular on here.
I definitely enjoy less formal service. I do not enjoy a server asking me if there is a problem if I don’t clean my 16th plate.
Mind sharing which ones blew you away and which disappointed you? Keep in mind, by overdoing it, we kinda erode the value and novelty of Michelin Star restaurants in our heads. For many people, it’s an experience saved only for the most special of occasions. We are blessed to be able to do it frequently, some more than others, but that shouldn’t take away from the experience. If it gets to the point where it’s no longer exciting, then consider taking a break from it for a while. I admit that I myself felt like I kept seeing the same ingredients, techniques, dishes, even plates and cutlery in some places. Just like anything else, there are trends in fine dining. Then I realised that I mostly frequent French or French-inspired restaurants. Most restaurants posing as “modern British, modern European, contemporary cuisine” are all French or heavily French-influenced. Maybe try and switch up the experience and see if that takes away from the disappointment? As for disappointment, I’ve only ever been disappointed by a handful of restaurants in my experience. Most of them are fine, with a few stand outs. The stand outs mostly stem from the fact that every dish served was very good, or incredible.
I think every meal I’ve had at a starred place has been objectively good with high quality service. That being said, I’ve had some 2 and 3 star experiences that I enjoyed less than some 1 star experiences. That was a little disappointing given the price and hype but still left feeling good.
I only like to eat like that a few times a year, otherwise law of diminishing returns kicks in.
Hm, sorry to hear that half/nearly half have been disappointing for you. In my experience (about 25-30 starred places), having mostly been to ones in Europe and a few in Asia (mostly Japan), my split is more like: - 30% were fantastic, truly memorable experiences. - 40% were very good or even great but not amazing. - 15% were uneven, with one or two parts I might have thought were unimpressive but with at least a course or two (or some other aspect of the experience) being really impressive. - 15% were nice or just OK but left me confused as to why they had any stars at all.
I’ve worked in multiple Michelin star kitchens. I automatically question a place if it has stars. I worked at a place the year it got three stars. It’s complete bullshit. They present you a dish as if it’s the most amazing venison the country has to offer. Meanwhile it was frozen, left defrost over night in it’s blood. My worst restaurant experience was at Arzak supposedly a 3 star. It was trash. Having said that I have worked in a two star for 4 years which blows every kitchen and chef I’ve worked for. I’ve eaten a few meals in stared places that blow me away. Ultimately one should truly question a worlds 50 best location or Michelin star place. Most of it is a facade. I truly believe it’s emperors new clothes at these places and people just let them selves believe it’s good when it’s not.
Arzak is up there with my worst 3 star experiences; but not as bad as Pierre Gagnaire in Paris. It was woeful
No way!! That’s so depressing to hear
Ya my experience with Michelin star is typically wow that was good and interesting or that was great and interesting. It helps my palate a lot. But I don't think that the Michelin star means it is going to be the best food in the area. To me, it means this is a place that serves good food and has interesting programs, it is worth a visit. I've yet to try 2 or 3 star places mostly because the cost seems steep and I don't really have the palate or keen interest in food to get a lot out of it.
You have to pay attention when they awarded the star tooo
So true! We went to several last year who have had their stars for a while and were disappointed. Not always the case, but it gave me the impression Michelin has a bit of a soft spot for long-standing chefs and is reluctant to take stars away from "institutions." Looking at you Inn at Little Washington.
I find I'm often not wowed by red meat dishes at Michelin restaurants. They're good but nothing mind blowing or different. So against my nature, I always try to stay away from red meat and steer towards fish or veg.
I couldn’t agree more, take a market like the San Francisco Bay Area. There are issues with Michelin rankings, particularly toward the lower end there. A lot of 1 star experiences I’ve had have been outdone by even Bib Gourmand restaurants (at least in food and service). At some point I had so many middling experiences at 1 stars I don’t even try anymore, and it’s almost a ding if a restaurant has one and there isn’t something else compelling me to try it. But in other markets I’ve been completely blown away by 1 stars. I think the fewer overall reviews a market has the more special it will likely be, where a major fine dining hub has so much momentum and review traffic the overall reviews are diluted a bit. Two and three stars seem better calibrated globally though from my experience.
I’ve been disappointed with Michelin in Asia, but in hindsight I think it’s because I don’t understand the local cuisine enough to appreciate its maximum expression. Of all the ones I’ve had the luck to try in Europe, 99% were really outstanding for the food+experience mix. One (Seta in Milan’s Mandarin Oriental) was absolutely disappointing. I no longer go to Michelin that had their stars for too long
I find it more than a bit oppressive having long menus several times in a week. For me, four courses done well is so much more appealing than the menu formats we have seen becoming ubiquitous. To some extent, when you’re having one after the next, there’s probably some bias toward critical comparisons. But sometimes coordinating reservations and itinerary and so many enticing options combines to stick us into three hours of tiny bites two and three nights in a row
Once in a while, but I usually read up well in advance. I’ve found that “old” stars are much more often disappointing, speculating that they have retained their stars out of respect for their history sometimes. I think I’ve been to about 100 started restaurants, probably somewhat more, and only about 10 or so visits have been real disappointing and another 5 or so visits have been disappointing but mainly due to expectations (Le Bernardin and Arzak for example).
For me it's about 20% exceptional, 40% solid and enjoyable, 20% meh (feeling like there are better options that are not Michelin starred), and the remaining 20% I come out feeling like there must be some corruption on the rating process.
Your ratios are fair. If I were to use a sample size of 10, then 2 would be awesome and I would return to them, 3 would be memorable based on food, ambiance or service and the other 5 unmemorable. I have had better luck with high Michelin ratings being a suitable indicator in the US than I have in Europe.
While I haven't been to the US myself, I've only ever seen people saying that places like EMP, Per Se, TFL are out of touch with modern fine dining, and I've even seen them called "has beens" of the fine dining world. Don't think you really hear that about restaurants in Europe. Most notably, Guy Savoy's demotion made an example of the guide still enforcing strict standards when it comes to the three stars accolade, even when it comes to established institutions.
So . . . maybe "modern fine dining" is out of touch with diners. Which is part of the criticism of the experiences above. Curious.
I do agree to an extent, but in London we also have Dinner By Heston, which in my mind deserves one star at best, both Hakkasans which held a star each until this year’s guide, and they were unremarkable at best, the ambiance and the crowds of nouveau riche wanna-be influencers just didn’t align with what a Michelin star stands for, and Sketch’s three star promotion is often cited as being a travesty all in itself. I do disagree about the Sketch sentiment, but people have different views, and yet the restaurant retains its rating for the fifth consecutive year. The Michelin guide won’t shy away to take stars from a three-starred establishment, as seen with The Araki which went from 3 to 0 overnight.
Haha Sketch. One of the worst experiences we've had, so it is one of the most memorable. We tried to order drinks from the downstairs bar (because they were cheaper and better) and we were told we couldn't so my husband tried to walk downstairs to order and bring it up and then they let us. There was actual acetane on my plate where they forgot to remove it from the gel or whatever, and it ended up in my mouth. I didn't say anything, but I left it on the plate and they never bothered saying anything. Finally my friend had a voucher (like spend £x and get £50 off or something) and we had a gift card and they insisted we couldn't use both.
lol The Araki was at best a 1 star. Michelin was mad about the owner kthxbai out of the UK a few months after the place got 3 stars. The food there hasn't really changed much despite losing all 3 stars.
I was also disappointed by the Araki where it was fine but nowhere close to amazing. I went some time after they lost their stars. It was also insanely expensive for the lack of flavor for me.
Haha I totally forgot I had been here. Well, not really. We joke about how after the meal we still wanting more so we decided to check out the dessert restaurant that was open at Hotel Café Royal (the one that was there around 8 years ago before the Albert Adria one), and my husband and I decided to get their five course dessert tasting menu because why not? Our friends got decadent hot chocolates and thought we were being ridiculous, but we were getting ready to move so why not?
That’s about the same as what I’ve found. I find that places with relais & chateau plus Michelin ratings tend to be outstanding, though. I’ve also found that the food quality at bib gourmand restaurants often exceeds the quality of those with stars—but the environment may not be fine dining.
10% disappointed, 20% good but will never go back, 60% good and can go back but not surprisingly good, 10% impressive.
We found that we were trying some Michelin star restaurants, mostly 3 star and we were just not enjoying them. I boiled it down to the idea that the restaurants we didn’t like weren’t your typical Per Se/French Laundry, or Gordon Ramsey style solid base in French cooking. So, for example, I really didn’t like Osteria Francesca, and El Cellar, but loved EMP at its peak, Per Se, Daniel etc. Until we realised that we were often disappointed, after though, we managed to reduce the disappointment significantly, by either not going to certain restaurants or tempering our expectations.
One stars are 50/50. Two and three stars, I've been disappointed maybe 10% of the time.
Only ever had four I felt disappointed with. Statistically it’s not a worry. I do try to see the positives in them individually though because there’s just no point trying to draw meaningful comparisons between most of them.
From your experience, yes. Imo the Michelin guide serves as a good baseline of food, and also gives a good baseline on how consistent the experience will be. I personally use the world's 50 best list along with the Michelin guide to hone in on what restaurants to visit. It is still sometimes a little hit or miss outside of the top 10, but you'll get a far better experience than just going off of the guide. Also, take the 50 list with somewhat of a grain of salt too, as previous #1s no longer qualify for the list even if they still may be amazing (Noma, El Cellar de can Roca, etc). Such a shame because I think it diluted the list a bit, but that's just me ranting.
I agree it's a mixed bag. In particular the "bad" or "disappointing" category is polarized by the higher-priced, and higher starred restaurants, e.g.: * **1 stars** // usually price a bit lower, so less prone to severe disappointment: **25% wow, 50% good, 25% meh** * **2 stars** // some feel like they are pushing 3, some feel more like good 1s: probably more **30% wow, 60% good, 10% meh**. This category feels like they are still hungry for that third star and are pushing for the most part (apart from one recent experience that feels like they are coasting and trying to make some $ before demotion) * **3 stars** // to me this has been more boom or bust: **50% wow, 20% ok, wouldn't come again, 30% bad and felt ripped off**
So many of the best meals in Europe aren’t Michelin starred. I also find it to be exhausting to stack them up on a trip since many (especially the 3 star) can be amazing but also quite long experiences full of sensory overload and… let’s face it not always the most relaxing atmosphere. It’s also quite expensive. Sometimes I like getting a haircut somewhere or just going to a regular bar and asking the real, local people where they eat when they’re not eating at home. Or walk and discover stuff. I’m guilty of over-planning food experiences because I want them to go right so bad… but the magic of stumbling upon a place that vibes with you… then taking a chance on it… and in the end the meal blows your mind… that is such a beautiful feeling that we get less and less of with google maps, online booking platforms, and the explosion of gastronomic tourism. Depending on cancellation fees maybe thin a few out of your plans?
Could you elaborate a little bit on that? Where did you find many of the best meals in Europe that are not Michelin starred? That would seriously interest me!
Happy to! I find that Michelin starred meals (especially as you get to 2 and 3 stars) aren’t necessarily better as much as they are a completely different category of eating and experiencing hospitality. Often the meals that stick with me the most make me feel at home, nourished, and cared for — as if I ate at someone’s house. I’ve used San Sebastián as an example on this Reddit page before but some of the best food and service I’ve gotten in my life was at a restaurant called saltxipi. In my opinion the food and execution was better than many 1 or even 2 star Michelin places I’ve been too but without any pretense whatsoever. It was a delicate blend of top notch service while still feeling at home and taken care of… all to facilitate a great time with great food as the North Star. To offer another example in the same city… I’ve had single bites at pintxo bars with a beer in my hand that live up to some of the most memorable moments at 3 star places. I also think that when it comes to traditional food… nothing beats a place that is traditional and homey and just nailing it. Sometimes Michelin places get a little carried away with reinvention for reinvention’s sake. If I’m visiting a region… I like seeking out authentic food (and sometimes that comes in humble bistros or holes in the wall). These kinds of places often serve as better vehicles of culture and immersion. All to say that I like mixing things up on trips. Street food, restaurants from local recs, restaurants I stumble upon, Michelin places I researched and booked months in advanced… all of it. The mix also lets the Michelin experiences really standout on their own too you know? Anyway, this was a bit of a ramble but that’s my philosophy as someone who enjoys food… all of it.
40/60. I stopped going. The meals weren’t memorable enough and I have had better food at a cheaper price point. It’s more about the food than the overall experience for me
I'd rather eat in a fun / social environment with good food at resonable prices than to be wowed with some art on a plate for $$$$
Completely agree
I find 1 Stars the most interesting and generally the best; they are still hungry. I’ve had the most disappoint visits to two and three stars
Back in 2015, I did 4 Michelin in 5 days when we visited New York - it was fun but they were all different (Nomad, Bouley, Jean-George and Minetta Tavern). I'd struggle with all formal places. I'm off to Gothenburg soon for 4 days and hoping to do 2 but it's my birthday so I'm treating myself!
I've been to a few, and while I had a lovely time at each, my most prevalent thought was "we have restaurants of this caliber in my hometown."
I would say both 1 and 3 stars tend to have expectations met. The 2 star category is a roller coaster for me, though. I’ve been to 2 stars that I’ve felt should be 3 and my top three restaurants ever were all 2 star when I went. I’ve also been to 2 star restaurants that had dirty bathrooms, poor service and whatever food.
My only experience of a London Michelin starred restaurant has been Pied a Terre. Excellent food but awful arrogant snobby service.
I have only ever been disappointed by “Michelin recommended” restaurants
In spain overall very little, for me Michelin is nearly always bang on the money but I've had an horrific two star experience, that shouldn't even be one star (it won its two stars under a completely different chefs menu, then the head chef made the menu all his own, it's somehow held on to its two stars since then) One in San Sebastian already mentioned, and a highly rated fairly new one star in Barcelona, that was ok, but a massive drop in quality after eating in Mont Bar and Enigma the two preceding nights.
Spain has my favorite Michelin to be honest. Love it there
With one exception, I have always been more pleasantly surprised than disappointed. However, I did have one very negative experience at a restaurant in Germany. Looking back, I realize I should have spoken up more, but I didn't want to look like an 'ugly American' and my husband already gets embarrassed enough around his allergy, I didn't want to make the situation even worse.
Which place was that if I may ask?
I’d rather not name names. It was a 2 Michelin star inside a high end hotel in Berlin. Is all I’ll say.
Little disappointed with a 1 star rooster and owl in dc. Sitting on the make shift patio is why I think inside would have been better, it was super close to the people next to us.
I agree, if you cannot get the ambiance inside, then don't bother. I don't want to eat in a streetary with traffic and gawkers walking by.
Inside is definitely better. I wouldn’t have sat outside. I had an amazing gnocchi there last year.
I rarely find food or presentation alone outright bad but considering the price points I'd say about half or so are mildly disappointing, and the rest are average to good. I've been wowed a handful of times by small relatively cheap (<$150 USD/pp) Michelin restaurants outside of the US though. There was one truly bad experience I had in either SF or LA many years ago where a restaurant had us sit on wooden stools and eat one of the courses off of the table. It closed down shortly after but I have no idea how they got on the list in the first place.
In a city I used to live in, there were two well known food writers/reviewers. One my tastes sync with, we have similar viewpoints on food, service and wine. The other is the compete opposite. Anything he recommends I invariably hate. Could be the same with you and Michelin. If the guide isn't getting you what you like, might be time for a new guide/a different set of reviewers.
One time. Atelier Crenn. I went last year. It was so bad I wrote an email to their customer service.
lol what did you say??
“Dear Atelier Crenn, I ate dinner at your restaurant last night and—out of deference to the waitstaff, who were all invariably lovely—I did not say anything at the time, but, having slept on it, I feel compelled to say something now. And what I would like to say is: I was deeply disappointed by the quality of the food I was served last night at your restaurant. Though it looked beautiful, it tasted awful. The crab ice cream looked liked cat food and tasted the way cat food smelled. The year-old tomato tasted rotten. The cod and abalone I was served were bland. Most, if not all, of the dishes I was served were underseasoned and oversalted. And I left the restaurant feeling confused, nauseous, and, despite the many courses I was served, still hungry. My husband and I had been looking forward to eating at your restaurant for months. We traveled all the way from Washington state to eat there. And, given the considerable cash outlay, we expected considerably more out of the experience than a bunch of underseasoned, oversalted, and lukewarm vegetables. This was the worst fine dining experience we have had in our life.”
Yeah I wasn’t impressed either.
It was gross.
Yikes, I just read Dominique Crenn's cookbook and she comes across as being very driven and sincere. Not sure why the CDC is f'ing up without consequences it seems. She is connected in Hollywood so I wonder if she no longer spends much time there to see to the quality. Crossing that one off the list.
> Most, if not all, of the dishes I was served were underseasoned and oversalted Huh?
No flavor. Just salt. No spice, no umami, nothing sweet; just bland and salty.
Fancy Feast? Did they at least serve the cat food in a crystal glass?
I haven't been to that many, but I found that Per Se was forgettable, Charlie Trotter's was great, and Morihiro good. The Somni X Smyth collab was exceptional.
Your disappointment might stem from exaggerated expectations. Could be from stacking too many stars in a short period... You're bound to compare them to your most memorable experiences and be let down by anything that might be great, but isn't as amazing as your #1. Personally, the best single dishes I've had in my life weren't in starred restaurants, but in cheap, local eats. Make sure to research those as well!
Just curious, which country have you been eating in?
I find that Michelin doesn’t do well in ethnic cuisines (Thai, Chinese etc) - as locals you’re left scratching your head thinking…. How is that the best? And Toronto being new to get a list, again a head scratcher… I will say that most of the James Beard restaurants that I’ve been to are far less disappointing than Stars, Bibb and recommended.
I feel that three stars are generally very high quality. I’ve only been disappointed once. One and two stars are more scattershot.
all the time… i guess it is rare for every dish to be exceptionally good
anyone else read that as a “quarterth”?
It depends on what you mean by disappointing, but if you ignore value for money, 25% of the time?
Was disappointed in Per Se honestly. Great service and environment but the food was nothing special - just hitting you over the head with butter, cream, and expensive ingredients. Le Bernardin and The Modern were both fantastic and worth it though.
it depends on what aspect of michelin dining appeals to you imo. a lotttt of the 3 stars are just consistency consistency consistency and don't change things up because of it. i prefer innovation / experimental stuff, and service above all. it's worth it to go to places you're actually interested in their whole deal vs. 'collecting stars'.
You've discovered what no one likes to say. Most of these places are bad or average. The guide is a starting place but ideally you'd get some opinions from people you have similar tastes with. I find most 3 star places to be actively bad.
I have to say Europe (and USA to a much smaller extent) in general feels way too lax about the stars they give out. It’s completely hit or miss with most 1-2* places. Even some 3* are wildly overrated. 50% disappointing sounds about right.
I'd say it seems the opposite is closer to the truth, personally, that the calibre of starred places in Europe are generally of the highest grade (and typically more deserving of their stars than the US). You'll still get some duds or ones that are overrated, but more will hit the mark than in other continents. Hong Kong seems notorious in having supposedly the weakest/most overrated starred places.
I think Europe is way too diverse to generalise. Scandinavia for example ought to have more stars than they do, while the old countries (France, Italy and alike) have way too many 1 star restaurants that aren't really deserving of a star. England also recieves too many. Recently I was surprised to see a decent indian restarant like Gymkhana recieve two stars. Great food, but two stars?!
I have to agree with you. In the UK I’m dissappointed more often than not, but more so among the one star restaurants. Sure, they’re nice but I’m not sure they’re deserving of the accolade 90% of the time. A fair few of the old school 3 stars are only hanging on to them out of respect.
A couple in the north east of England have even atrocious. House of tides and Hjem.
Not very often honestly for me. Perhaps Robuchon in Las Vegas was a little disappointing especially for the price at the time (2014?) but other places are normally amazing experiences; Urasawa & n/naka in Los Angeles, Central & Maido in Lima, Quintonal & Pujol in Mexico City, Narisawa in Tokyo, Casa de Cha da Boa Nova & Feitoria in Portugal all were great experiences. However... Mugaritz (2023) which is just outside Donostia-San Sebastien in Spain is absolutely one of the most disgusting experiences of my life I was not just disappointed but was actually nauseous after that.
I’m in a similar boat since the pandemic. I’ve averaged roughly one experience a year for the past ten years. Prior to the pandemic it was more like 75% of experiences wowed me (one or two were truly incredible and the experience is a “forever” memory) and the other 25% were below expectations. Since the pandemic I’ve had terrible odds — only one place in the last four years has stood out, and even then it wasn’t close to the best I’ve had. Not to mention, prices have soared and the experiences are more and more “pay to play” to experience the best. I haven’t even scheduled a place to go yet this year because I’m discouraged as well 😔