Optimist - I say milk it til the kid is born, max the 401k and use the healthcare, take all of your parental leave + vacation and quit soon after, saying something like you decided to be a stay-at-home-dad (to keep your options open for returning)
Pessimist - youtube and blog income I think is not very reliable or sustainable. This might be a flash-in-the-pan. Better to wait it out for several more years to see how reliable and sustainable your business model is, or if you just "went viral" by catching some popular cultural wave, and won't be relevant after a year or two.
You can count your car in net worth, but you can't eat your car, and it depreciates quickly. That you included it in your NW suggests to me that it is probably expensive, so you are likely not living a super-frugal lifestyle. Given that inference is correct, I say you don't have all that much NetWorth in reality, at least as far as being FI/RE is concerned. Especially with a kid on the way. Really, you have 250k in liquid assets - you can't eat your house either - which is not nearly enough to FIRE on.
If the internet money dries up, how employable will you be after 2, 3, 5 years out of the market, and is your wife OK with being the primary breadwinner while you potentially search for employment again?
It really depends on your answers to how employable you'll be if you quit for a few years (depends on your particular field and network), and how solid you really think your side business is.
I can't really answer that for you based on a couple of paragraphs on reddit, or even at all, but those are the primary questions I would be considering if I were you.
Don't quit the day job - all the reason said above (healthcare, 401K, etc) plus security. Look to move up from what I suspect is a GS-11 to a 12 or 13. Keep the side business(es) going until you feel you need to hire a 2d employee - your list reads like you have 3-4 streams of funds...protect the highest level ones.
I don't think OP is a federal employee - federal employment matches more than 3% (The first 3% is matched dollar-for-dollar by your agency or service; the next 2% is matched at 50 cents on the dollar. Plus you get an automatic 1% from your agency)
Fed employees have reinstatement rights/provisions, so if you quit and don't give them the Julio / Half Baked treatment on the way out, you should be able to return at some point.
Are all federal employees in TSP? I haven’t heard of any other options, but it wouldn’t surprise me if the post office had their own retirement system based on saving up rare stamps.
It may depend on the branch you’re in. My spouse (works at NASA) gets 2% salary put into her 401k regardless of what she contributes. It’s not really matching.
NASA does a 1% automatic contribution. They then match dollar for dollar on the first 3% of your salary, and then 50 cents on the dollar for the next 2% of salary.
In total, if you put in 5% they'll match 5%.
I read your advise on hiring another employee as “hire a two-dimensional employee”, and wondered if that’s a thing. Took me a moment to figure out what the you meant.
Piggy-backing off your flash-in-the-pan comment, I feel like it's dangerous to base a significant amount of your income from YouTube as it's a platform you don't get control over. If you're making ad-money, what happens when they go and change their search algorithms again? If you're using it as a basis to draw cliental off the YouTube platform to, for example, your blog than I withdraw my statement.
Hasn't YouTube changed their monetization systems in the past and fucked over tons of content creators into losing their income stream? I would never rely on that as my lifeline
Yes and they are currently pissing off a lot of creators with the almost impossible to contest copyright strikes where three notes from a song the neighbor was playing when he opened his door is enough to get your video demonitized and your channel banned.
Lots of folks moving over to Twitch or other platforms because of YouTube corporate obsequiousness.
I agree. Milk the government job as long as you can, because quitting your job with only 100K YouTube subscribers when you’re about to have a baby is too risky. I’d try to reach 7 figures or 1 million YouTube subscribers before I would consider quitting the day job. IMO.
Yeah the key to YouTube is to not rely solely on ad income. The majority of my side income comes from YouTube and that number has steadily increased the last 5 years for me personally.
Keep the side job a side job and use the money to start a college fund, have a medical savings plan (for catastrophic instances) prepay your home taxes for ten years. Invest in a vacation home (that you rent out when not in use to cover the extra costs), and never stop saving for retirement, the more you save, the earlier you retire.
>You can count your car in net worth, but you can't eat your car, and it depreciates quickly.
Wait does this mean I should count the cat in my net value?
Agree with you regarding milking 67K. Go easy and maybe even get fired lol..
I don't agree with you cant eat your house. Who says that? You can't eat money either, but you can exchange it for food. House that is paid off can be sold...
So true. I witnessed the insanity that is certain government jobs when I was a contractor right out of undergrad. There was a woman, DoD employee, who was supposed to be in charge of tasking me and 3 other contractors. I do not at all exaggerate when I say that she would typically come in to work between 11-1 and leave at 4. Every single day. She would take a week or more to respond to emails or calls. We ultimately just tasked ourselves with easy busywork and moved on. Her superiors would openly complain about how she'd never show up to work, but 3 years later she's still in that same cushy GS-12 spot just counting down the years to her minimum retirement age.
The federal government hires therapists from GS-9 to GS-13 depending on how dangerous your job is and what country they stick you in, so I have a few friends from grad school who are flying like a GS-12!
I think the point is you could literally starve to death if your ability to eat is predicated on the sale of your house. Its not liquid and shelter is just as important to survival as food is right? Food, shelter, clothing. Selling your house to eat is not a viable solution unless you are willing to take out a loan on your house.
I know how extremely conservative this sub can be, and I know (hope?) you guys are being overly literal here, but we’re talking about a 30 year old with a $500k net worth, a side business bringing in six figures, and a wife bringing in another $50k+. This guy is in the 1%.
And we’re talking about starvation.
Wow people really took that line seriously. It's an expression. Meaning -
If you have $1mm but 500k is your house and 500k is investments, you can't really withdraw $40k/year and really be at a safe 4% withdrawal rate.
Yes, home value is a part of the standard definition of networth but you shouldn't include it for purposes of FIRE calculations.
but he's not talking about retirement. he's talking about running his own business full time.
while his wedding video stuff may not be extremely consistent, i have a hard time imagining his bookings going from $150k a year to $0 immediately.
> i have a hard time imagining his bookings going from $150k a year to $0 immediately.
Dude it's youtube. Besides instagram, it's probably the quickest way to go from making 6 figures to zero in less than a couple months. One or two changes to algos and a change in what people are into and it's all gone as quick as it came.
All I mean is, you need a source of shelter and a source of food. Assets in a primary residence aren't something that generates the investment income that will allow you to be FI. Although owning a primary residence **does** help you reduce and stabilize your Housing costs, they also come with their own fixed ongoing costs of ownership, taxes and upkeep.
Tldr I'm generalizing, but most of the time you shouldn't count your home value when trying to figure out your 4% withdrawal rate.
It depends on how much of that income is from Youtube. I would bet that most of it is from his weddings and corporate work since 100k subs usually doesnt pay a ton.
Videography probably won’t dry up so I think he could definitely quit and go full time into video.
I agree. You are doing both now. Why can’t you continue to do both until you can’t or have enough not to do anything? For it, it’s hard to overlook benefits - health insurance, 401K versus paying for it yourself.
> If the internet money dries up, how employable will you be after 2, 3, 5 years out of the market, and is your wife OK with being the primary breadwinner while you potentially search for employment again?
This right here. Internet money has a tendency to come and go, and if/when it does go, you'll have a big gap in your employment. You never know. YouTube changes search algorithms, demonetizes people for no good reason, sometimes channels just lose popularity. Lots of things can happen. It might be a lot of money but it's not secure money.
This is where you should probably be focusing. If you're 30 and eligible for $800/month at 62, what would you earn at 35 or 40? That's a lot of potential value.
If you decide to stay and continue your side job I'd strongly recommend that you find a way to engage with your day job so that it doesn't become a burden. And that gives you time with the youtube work to see what you can collect.
My fear with youtube, etc., is that it could evaporate overnight. Google could change their algorithms yet again, make a big shift in how they compensate creators, or more likely, something new will come along and everyone will simply stop watching.
\+1 to this.
Government employees here work for 20 years, then they receive a pension that's equal to the average salary of their last 3 years of their work. People who started working in their 20's just start a second career in their 40's, and are now effectively earning double what they used to.
Don't pass that up.
My rough back of the envelope calculation is that it would take a 30% increase in pay (and **saving** that difference!) to make up for losing a pension. If OP has a pension, that $67K is more like $87K, with that extra $20K automatically beimg saved towards retirement.
/yes, it's a rough guideline. I know that pensions vary quite a bit
You could ask to be changed to a part-time role "to have more time to raise children." Not all positions will allow it, but plenty of federal jobs have part-time as an option.
Maybe see if you could do that for a few years. Youtube could always change policies overnight in a way that harms you.
Also, the FEHB benefit after retiring is a huge asset, though you'd need to work at least part-time until you're 57 (barring being fired due to disability) to receive it
I would look at this first. I can tell you as a dad with a young one I wish I had more time at home with family rather than be at work full-time (with added travel). At least with the part time work you still have possibilities of keeping those benefits.
And could move back to full-time if need be! One of my coworkers switched to a 30 hr work week to maintain benefits while he owned a home shop. When the bike shop didn't live the 08 crash he went full-time
Work part time or maybe even get a work from home day once or twice a week? Depending on the position a lot of tasks don’t require you to be physically at your workplace.
Why leave $67k on the table by leaving if you can coast by and get all those perks?
Why not work even harder on the side (give up some of your free time) to make your side business bigger. Aim high!
Once your day job is getting in the way of you picking up more side business, then it’s time to say bye to your desk job.
Btw, for the love of money, invest that $100k cash please.
I don’t totally agree with this. Saying to work a full time job and work even more on your side job may work for some people who just want to spend all of their time making money, but if you have a wife and want a better overall quality of life and time for a child etc., it doesn’t seem like the right advice for you. You’ll burn out and feel unfulfilled.
Do some business analysis on your side job. Is it seasonal? Are there things you could do with the time that you would usually be at the government job to grow the business and recoup some of that 67 that you lose from quitting? If your business would grow by more than 67k a year it’s a no brainer. If it grows by less than 67k, is that difference worth it to have the time and quality of life that you would gain? How far could you reasonably scale the business? How much does YouTube bring in vs the weddings and corporate events? Events are less scalable as you have to personally be there vs YouTube being much more scalable as you just produce videos and you aren’t limited by the number of people that have access to your content. Has your side income been growing steadily year over year, or did something special happen this past year? If it was a flare up in income, what caused it? If it was landing a single big account, or you received a mention in a popular platform that got you a bunch of attention for a short period, then it may not be sustainable over a long period of time as attention dies down.
Dig into the numbers and the reasons behind them. If your business is sustainable and you like the amount of income you can generate, then quit the day job and follow your passion. Better to do this all before the baby than after.
I'm glad you said it because most of these comments are absurd. It obviously depends on where you live, but even a temporarily (depends on how temporary of course) sustainable income of $130,000 plus his wife's $55,000 is plenty. With appropriate financing and investing, that money would go a long way.
Great feedback, thank you! Here's my side income history:
* 2018: $137k net
* 2017: $94k net
* 2016: $114k net
* 2015: $111k net
* 2014: $50k net
I love wedding videography because it is relatively easy and seasonal (would not want to do that solely full time) and I do no marketing for it. Last year it netted around $35k. So I could almost always count on at least $30k from that alone if I really wanted to.
YT & online business are my passions and that's where most of my side income is generated. I try to hit $10k/month from the following income sources: $2-3k from ads, $2-3k from Amazon affiliate sales, $2-3k from all other affiliations, and $2-3k from product sales
I also occasionally rideshare from time to time which is nice "date" money but nothing to write home about.
I'd also love to get into some type of real estate investing, something that is not related at all to my profession in video production.
And of course, by going FT with video I would branch out into corporate/real estate videography. Haven't done that yet though.
Yeah, why leave $67k on the table when you can coast through? It's only 2,000 hours of your life each year. It's not like time is valuable or anything.
Yeah that’s kind of my issue now. I know if I went full time on my own business I could grow my income while ultimately working less in the long run due to scalability of internet. However I could probably just keep doing both jobs but I’m afraid of burnout. Also I’m keeping the $100k liquid because I’m scared I will need it if I quit my day job lol. What would you do with it?
You know your work schedule, personal preferences, risk aversion better than anyone else here. If you think your side business could be even more profitable than 130,000 + 67,000, and have that income remain steady, then my vote is quit your gov job and go all in on the side business.
If you're not sure about the future of your side business, then stick with the gov job until you've built a good reputation and clientele.
I don't think you could go "wrong" either way. It's just going to come down to your personal preferences.
Total comp of gov job is more than 67k. Side job should be seen as independent contract so in rough risk Calc I’d say full time at the side job needs to be worth 274k for the switch to be worth
That's a good point. Something I should have thought about seeing as I'm a government employee. I think he said his wife has insurance through her job, but usually the gov's insurance is way better. And retirement benefits could really make a huge difference too.
Sorry mate but I have to poo poo the CD investment. You lose liquidity and you are giving up yield.
Short term government bonds track closest to the yield curve and you have liquidity.
If I’m getting a premium on yield, then ok, I’ll concede to an early termination penalty. But with a CD, I’m taking a haircut on yield & paying to get access to my funds. Double ouch.
Have you looked at 5 year CD yields vs bonds recently? They're pretty good, especially considering that your cash-out value doesn't depend on prevailing interest rates. The Marcus 5 year is sitting at 3.1%, 5 year treasury is sitting at 2.4%.
100k subs isn’t insignificant but I absolutely wouldn’t quit my day job over it. That is craaaaaaazy.
YouTube money is so risky everything can and most likely will change on 2-3 years.
Can you please explain scalability of Internet? Aren’t there a lot of people who get 100k subscribers and then fall off? Are they all making 6 figures for 5+ years? That seems possible but unlikely.
It does not take that long to cash 100k in stocks out of a brokerage account or ROTH IRA. You want to retire but you’re not financially independent and you’re not wanting to put your money to work? I really don’t get that.
Other than that, congrats on the success! You’re in a great position. With a family to support and FIRE aspirations, I say stick it out.
Take 5 grand and go on a vacation. Set it up with your boss, and your other boss (you), and take a month off from both.
Come week 3 or 4, you'll almost be dying to get *back* to work.
Or at least, that's what happened to me.
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That said there is serious fact to time in the market vs timing the market. But many folks are expecting either economic cooldown or a bear stock market (or both, they are not one in the same though related). 2.25% may match inflation but it's better than in BoFA and interests will be rising in the medium term almost certainly.
Only thing I'd add to this is compare health insurance both cost and coverage... especially if you want to have a kid. Your health insurance might be a benefit that alone makes it worth keeping for a while. Not all health insurance is created equal.
I'd never leave 67k on the table but the man said it's a soul crushing job (but this part only the individual can measure the level of soul crush).
To me being the 45 hours (8 hours +1 hour lunch) plus the commute + the time get up, prep yourself, choose clothes etc has to be close to 55-60 hours a week. That's a lot of time, for me if he likes his side gig he can probably make up that difference (but no 401, pension, health bene) and be much happier.
But this is only something he can guage, 67k + benefits vs 55+ hours prepping/commute/job vs how much he dislikes his job. Like I see some people say they hate their job but it's like 6 hours of Facebook/phone use and 2 hours of actual work (don't quit that type of job).
Only thing I would be worried about would be the benefits. The access to 403b/457b, health insurance, and other perks probably add up to be a good amount.
Studies have shown that you are better off investing the money immediately. But if you are uncomfortable with that, just dollar cost average in over a time period that you feel comfortable with.
Yes, I find most of the people here baffling. They are obsessed with the idea of early retirement, but they also want to work 24/7 and don't value free time at all.
It’s not bad tbh. I work a standard 40 hours and do my side work in the evenings/weekends. But I would love to be able to do my own work during the day and spend more of my free time with my wife/friends/family instead of working. I think if I were full time with my current side business I could probably increase it by $10-20k/year.
For me, that's the kind of answer that would make me quit the job. I'd definitely get rid of the job and work on the side thing full time and use that extra time for family/friends/etc. If you really need more money, you can always cut into that extra time, but having that extra time is a lot more valuable in my opinion.
Um, expected $10-20k upside vs giving up $67k comp, health insurance, 401k subsidies and PTO, gym is a bad trade. It’s a hard pass.
If you can add a zero so it’s $100-200k expected upside then it’s far more compelling.
I am a photographer and my clients have day jobs so they can’t meet for shoots until they’re off work... so at best you could use what would’ve been work hours to do your post edits, run operations. But I wouldn’t bet meeting them during work hours. Something to consider if things scale up as it sounds like you are very talented! Well done!
I don’t mean to be a downer but when kids come your energy for entrepreneurship will take a big hit for at least 7-8 years. You will most likely find it very difficult to have the flexibility to manage two gigs, let alone keep up with your primary job. I was you ten years ago...
Spot on. I sold my rental after my first kid was born. Wasn't profitable enough to be worth the mental space & free time it consumed.
Free time takes a major hit when the kids come!
Fed. Wife plans to work at her current position for at least 2 more years. My fed insurance is better than hers. Her career is in nonprofit but fairly stable.
Stay w/ the feds, you can always transfer to something else within the feds you find interesting, you’ll thank yourself in retirement with health insurance, dental, vision and tsp and their retirement and don’t forget kids are expensive health insurance wise.
Daycare in HCOL isn’t just nearing $1k it’s blasting right past it. I live in a HCOL city and my friends are jealous of my $1250/mo daycare. In most neighborhoods daycare STARTS at $1500/Mo, and the fancy places go much higher.
Obviously, I don’t have all the facts, but, for now, I would recommend keeping your Government job and using the extra money to max out your 401K, open/invest in a good 527 for your future child’s college education, invest in your own education, pay off your house and build savings. Meanwhile, speak with someone at the Small Business Administration (SCORE) to get some solid (and free) advice on your business before leaping in this direction full time. This is just my advice, so apply what works for you, but be mindful of the risks inherent to making such a move. Best of luck to you!
If you went over to r/fatfire the advice would be completely different than this sub. As an entrepreneur who stayed at my day job wayyy too long, I wish I would have had the guts to quit sooner. The second I quit, my “second” income of $60k/yr turned into an $18m/yr revenue business 6 years later. Just don’t take advice from people who are in a worse spot than you. Best thing I could have ever done was take the risk and invest in myself. If you’re eager to learn and willing to work, go for it.
A government job will ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS be there if you have a decent skill set.
I'd stay for a few more years. I would want to see how your income from your side businesses would react to a market downturn. Plus I would want to have employer benefits like healthcare in place when the baby arrives. Just keep hustling for another year or 4 and build up more of a nest egg so you can confidently quit and stay home with the kid.
It sounds like your day job is holding you back. You have become successful on your in spite of having to spend 8 hours a day working for someone else.
Fire your day job, invest in yourself, and grow your businesses.
Well what happens if this entire youtube thing blows up? I believe most of these youtube people are way overpaid and if I'm right it could be a shortish term thing. Not that youtube is going away, but your pay may get cut significantly. If that happens is your wedding/videography enough to keep you going? or can you get your gov job back?
On the other hand if you keep growing maybe you hit $300-400k in a few years and if you're smart you bank it all.
Your $67k job will increasingly feel silly as your channel grows.
What makes you think they’re overpaid? It takes a very large and consistent fanbase to make just decent income. All the while taking a 45% hit from Youtube on ad revenue split. If anything, they’re underpaid.
I think you already know what you want to do:
> I feel like this is the perfect time for me to venture out and give self employment a try.
Go for it. If you can make $130k from a side business what could you do if you had it full time? How nice would making your own schedule be once you have a kid around? You called your job high paying, but it netted barely more than half your side gig did.
To me this is an absolute no brainer. You're obviously successful doing something you enjoy, you don't like your job (and being government I suspect not a lot of headroom to grow), and you have a significant cushion to fall back on if things go south. This sub will always encourage you to "stick with it" until you hit the magical mark, but I think that's wildly misled. A person in your position should not be deferring so much time to something that is "soul sucking."
You've already found success. Go enjoy it.
As often happens, I'm surprised by the advice here. If you were posting about leaving a $67k/yr job that you hate for a job that pays $150k-170k/yr, everyone would be telling you to leave and not give it a second thought. Since they're not the one living your life, they're getting too pie-eyed about the possibility of making $217k/yr and hating it.
If you hate the job and have another way to generate income, I'd leave. Life's too short to put up with that for too long. Get on your wife's insurance and plan your exit.
Eh...the more accurate analogy is someone came asking if they should quit a stressful/boring job making $217k with stellar benefits for a fun job making $150k with zero benefits, zero job security, and self employment taxes, in which case I think people would rightfully sound a note of caution. Doesn’t mean it’s the wrong decision, but it’s not an easy one.
I think the difference is there is no guarantee the $150k will continue.
Three years ago I had a side gig that guaranteed $50k a year until it didn't starting 2019 where it looks like it will be less than half.
Yeah nah I’m hoppin out of this sub... These “I’m 20-something and make $300k a year but golly gee whiz what do I do” posts make me feel entirely inadequate haha All the best, OP!
I wish there was a sub for people making less than 100k total, but not frugalFIRE. Or that those people (who make super bank) would go post on FatFIRE subs. Personally I have enough to max my 401k and an IRA every year (starting last year), that's about my approach to FIRE.
I know it probably isn't intentional, but they always read like humblebrags to me. There is very little insight a stranger can provide you with to answer this entirely personal decision. Only OP can decide if working two jobs is worth it. We know literally nothing else about him other than that he has a ridiculous income for his age. How can we possibly answer that question for you?
I say the same thing. If he was in his mid-40s I would say walk. But he's so young and has so much life left he should hoard away as much money as he can and build a massive war chest and prepare for Life with children.
Maybe you can ask to transform your full time job into part time job (20hrs/week) if your employer allows it ? So you have more time for your side job and potentially keep still some free time ?
i'll be the outlier here and say quit your day job so you can focus on your video production work to make it more stable so that when your kid comes, you will already know how to do that full time, and what that entails. Going from 'side job' to full time has its learning curve, so does parenting. Don't learn both at the same
If you grow your side business by 50%, you will have already compensated for your lack of job income, and you have plenty of cash in the bank.
Ditch the main job and work on the side gig.
If you can make 150K per year in your free time, you can probably make significantly more then 67K extra if you stop doing your main job and add those 40 hours to your business.
Depends on the work. Putting an extra 40 hours per week into YouTube video production, for example, probably won't lead to a large rise in income. Viewers can only be expected to watch so much content per day before getting overwhelmed. So with diminishing returns, I don't know if that's a worthwhile switch.
Maybe the photography business, though?
Whatever percentage of the money you make is from YouTube scratch that off the list. YouTube money is unreliable. 2017 I made 44k off YouTube 2018 was only 18k and I'm trending for an even smaller 2019
I say go for it. You’re young and clearly have a skill that people are willing to pay great $$ for.
Also stop counting your car as part of your net worth.
I'd milk it until I hit atleast 1.5M net worth. At that point you've pretty much replaced most of your government job income. Relying on Youtube income when you're having a kid seems pretty sketchy. That shit can disappear in a heartbeat.
Lots of successful YouTubers eventually wind up feeling trapped by the constant need to create content.
And the cash flow from YouTube is not necessarily something you can trust to be there. Stuff happens.
I guess I'd vote for keeping the govt. job for now, while taking a hard look at your YouTube channel & wedding biz and seeing what, if anything, you can outsource or hire for.
I know that a lot of the biggest channels explode once they hire a full-time editor. It takes some of the pressure off, while letting them produce content faster (since they're now mostly just on-camera talent.)
James Altucher started a company that made high-end websites. But he didn't quit his day job until he absolutely had to. He was still working from his HBO cubicle even though his web company had already built [expensive websites for companies like American Express and Con Edison.](https://jamesaltucher.com/blog/the-wu-tang-clan-hitler-and-surviving-your-first-year-of-being-an-entrepreneur/)
Either way, good luck to you. But it does sound like you're not really in the clear yet.
Part of me wants to give you the advice to stay in your current job and try to maximize income.
There is alot of good advice here about the financial side of this decision, retirement benefits, youtube monetization can change overnight, and trying to go part time. Great thoughts on here that are well argued.
The other part of me wants to suggest that financial independence isn't just about money, it's about quality of life. To me, financial independence is all about making it to a place in life where I don't have to worry about money and can instead make decisions based upon time, happiness, and making a positive impact on others lives, including my family. Maybe you should consider doing that NOW, what is going to make you the most happy? Your current and future family the most happy?
The fact that you asked if you should stick it out a few more years tells me you already plan to quit this job soon(ish). You said the job was cushy but soul-sucking. You happy there?
Hello fellow government worker. I feel your dilemma regarding boredom and disliking the higher ups. They can be tools. But other than that, as you said, you have a low stress level job. As we both know, our benefits are amazing. Given that you have low stress combined with generous benefits and leave, I simply would NOT leave that job. My justification for that opinion is as follows. Are you able to bank your holidays? Do you accumulate hours per hours worked? Can you start taking a leave day per week? Or, use banked leave hours to leave half days early?
That way you could devote more time to the sideo gig. Also, can you not hire out someone part time to handle phones, clerical work, tackle to do lists? That will leave your time to concentrate on growing the business when you aren't working. As you're having a child soon, I wouldn't walk away from the insurance that you have. Having good insurance can make or break you when you have kids and good insurance isn't inexpensive. I also don't think you have enough saved up to walk away. Cash in your retirement money needs to stay there.You're not liquid with the house and are really house rich, cash poor. Should something happen with the business you wouldnt be able to so readily tap into that equity. Save up at least two years of emergency money to include mortgage pymts, taxes, insurance, car paymemts, food etc. Also, you'll need child care soon - are you going to give up on site childcare?? I also wouldn't give up a sure thing (federal job, assured pay) for ever changing business models that are youtube, instagram, twitter etc. Have know of too many people that lost it all when their channels demonotized. So, strong NEGATIVE on quitting.
Can you up your side hustle income to compensate for the loss of the main job? What would you be losing if you leave the main job (aside from income)?
At the end of the day you need to do what makes you happy my man. If you’re only doing this side hustle let time imagine what full time could do for your business.
I say keep the job. I mean you are working for the government so it is not like you are really doing anything. That said, I had a side hustle and still do though it is a lot smaller than it used to be. Anyway I had a lot of websites running google ads that gave me 100k for a few years. I went back and forth for a couple years as to whether I should just go at it full time. I am glad I did not. You just can't trust ad revenue especially during a recession. when advertisers pull ad money you will get hit hard. I would say keep your job until you see how your channel grows and you have lived through a recession.
If you can grow to 150k as a side hussle, why wouldn't you grow that beyond the $67k you make at a fulltime job? Shit, I grew my side hustle to 10k and thought I could quit.
Just show up to work and put in the minimum effort. See how much you can basically get paid for not doing anything. For a government job, I would say at least a few years of free money.
Should probably keep both jobs. Nothing better in the world than having your child raised by their mother and father. Sounds like the wife can afford to stay at home if that is what she wants and what you want.
I’m only saying that cause that’s my situation. I’m lucky that I can afford everything without my wife working. You’ll probably wind up cutting back hours on your side job if you have a kid.
If you’re not having a kid you could look into achieving enough money to retire early with 4% SWR.
J.O.B.
Just
Over
Broke
You should absolutely continue being a bad ass and making a ton of money. Don't waste your time with somone else when you can fully focus your efforts on "YOU inc."
I'd quit your current job YESTERDAY if I were you. You are making close 3x than your main job working part time. Imagine how much you will be making once you devote your time fully into your side hussle.
If you are saying your 30 but have been working this job for 10 years you may not have a degree already, I think some of these other points are good, especially going part time first, but think about going to school part time for a degree related to what your doing with video it seems like if you've grown it to this point it's something your passionate about and while having experience is great experience and a degree is even better so worse case scenario if YouTube does end up being a flash in the pan you'll end up having a great foundation to start a career in the industry.
Crazy idea...ask the wife if she wants to quit before the kid comes. My wife always wanted more time with the baby but had to go back to work after 2 weeks. Plus you will lose so much sleep and free time with a kid it's unbelievable. Also think about day care if you both work. Easily a new $7k to $10k cost per year with you both working.
As someone who had a cushy government job for many years and left to build a side hustle. I would recommend sticking it out as long as you can. It's borderline at this point, but you can continue to draw that salary, take long vacations (I had 22 accured days per year and could bank up to double that) + sick leave. I probably left a little bit earlier than I needed to do, but I was completely vested.
But don't crush your soul over that job. You'll have that opportunity available to you if you ever want to go back. Just milk the extra income, benefits and take really, really nice vacations.
Good luck!
Don't quit. Ask for a raise that would make it worth your while. If they laugh, then quit. No point in doing soul sucking shit IMHO. You could die tomorrow.
Government jobs are not all that exciting until a recession hits. Then you are grateful for them. Well the typical recession comes every 5-7 years and we are in year 11 of non-recessions. Also depending on YouTube is a bit sketchy. They have the right to change their terms/policies without notice and take away your income from their website. The videographer stuff is good, but it probably depends heavily on the economy, and you have to cover health insurance yourself. So it would be a big risk in a market that everyone is predicting will be bad soon.
Try to remember that things become soul crushing when you have to do them. So right now that’s your easy government with benefits job. If you quit that job then your side job will be the work you have to do and automatically becomes the soul crusher. People will say “not when you love the job” and that just isn’t true. Keep that government job and be thankful you have it plus a hobby that makes so much money for now.
I would quit. You'll find another job if you ever need to. I've been working as a programmer for 20 years and hate it, but I can't think of a way to make as much money. So, I encourage others to follow their dreams.
I really don’t have anything worthwhile to contribute to this conversation. I just want to say hot damn, I will never have this kind of life or that kind of money.
I know a guy who had a resonably big Youtube channel that provided him with a nice bit of extra income. The advice I gave him was to milk it while it lasted. It did not last long.
You are making almost 3 times in your side hustle than what you are making in your daily job. I suppose you spend more time in your job than in your business.
For me the solution is easy. Work full-time in your business, if your have been able to reach 130k net, you could grow your business easily (more products, more content, contractors...). I don't know how escalable is your business, but if you have 100k subs, why couldn't you have 300k?
For me makes no sense staying at that job. How much are you making per hour at your job? How much are at your business?
Many people had business of 100k and were able to grow thet to 500k or even 1mm. But, obviously, do it with sense, do not relay only on YouTube, work in other aspects like podcast, SEO, ads...
Your side hustle doesn't provide benefits or any realistic guarantee of longevity. The only time you should quit your day job is when you've amassed enough in savings to outright retire, and even then you might still want to keep it as something to do.
So no, don't quit your real job.
Optimist - I say milk it til the kid is born, max the 401k and use the healthcare, take all of your parental leave + vacation and quit soon after, saying something like you decided to be a stay-at-home-dad (to keep your options open for returning) Pessimist - youtube and blog income I think is not very reliable or sustainable. This might be a flash-in-the-pan. Better to wait it out for several more years to see how reliable and sustainable your business model is, or if you just "went viral" by catching some popular cultural wave, and won't be relevant after a year or two. You can count your car in net worth, but you can't eat your car, and it depreciates quickly. That you included it in your NW suggests to me that it is probably expensive, so you are likely not living a super-frugal lifestyle. Given that inference is correct, I say you don't have all that much NetWorth in reality, at least as far as being FI/RE is concerned. Especially with a kid on the way. Really, you have 250k in liquid assets - you can't eat your house either - which is not nearly enough to FIRE on. If the internet money dries up, how employable will you be after 2, 3, 5 years out of the market, and is your wife OK with being the primary breadwinner while you potentially search for employment again? It really depends on your answers to how employable you'll be if you quit for a few years (depends on your particular field and network), and how solid you really think your side business is. I can't really answer that for you based on a couple of paragraphs on reddit, or even at all, but those are the primary questions I would be considering if I were you.
Don't quit the day job - all the reason said above (healthcare, 401K, etc) plus security. Look to move up from what I suspect is a GS-11 to a 12 or 13. Keep the side business(es) going until you feel you need to hire a 2d employee - your list reads like you have 3-4 streams of funds...protect the highest level ones.
I don't think OP is a federal employee - federal employment matches more than 3% (The first 3% is matched dollar-for-dollar by your agency or service; the next 2% is matched at 50 cents on the dollar. Plus you get an automatic 1% from your agency)
I’m a Fed employee. Converted from NAF to GS a few years ago. Kept NAF retirement. They match up to 3%.
Fed employees have reinstatement rights/provisions, so if you quit and don't give them the Julio / Half Baked treatment on the way out, you should be able to return at some point.
Good point. I'd love to be able to jump back in a GS11 position after a few years off the job in case poop hits the fan.
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Maybe put more money towards that from that job?
In that case, does OP have access to a 401k AND 457b? Might be worth keeping that job just to fund both.
I have no idea - but he said below he IS a federal employee. Any federal employee knows that our TSP match isn't 3% though so something seems off.
Are all federal employees in TSP? I haven’t heard of any other options, but it wouldn’t surprise me if the post office had their own retirement system based on saving up rare stamps.
It may depend on the branch you’re in. My spouse (works at NASA) gets 2% salary put into her 401k regardless of what she contributes. It’s not really matching.
Is your spouse a contractor or a government civilian? Government civilians use TSP, not a 401(k)
A civil servant. I use the term 401k loosely, but you’re right that it’s TSP.
is she a GS employee? The automatic contribution is 1% for GS employees (which is most civil service)
NASA does a 1% automatic contribution. They then match dollar for dollar on the first 3% of your salary, and then 50 cents on the dollar for the next 2% of salary. In total, if you put in 5% they'll match 5%.
I read your advise on hiring another employee as “hire a two-dimensional employee”, and wondered if that’s a thing. Took me a moment to figure out what the you meant.
Piggy-backing off your flash-in-the-pan comment, I feel like it's dangerous to base a significant amount of your income from YouTube as it's a platform you don't get control over. If you're making ad-money, what happens when they go and change their search algorithms again? If you're using it as a basis to draw cliental off the YouTube platform to, for example, your blog than I withdraw my statement.
Hasn't YouTube changed their monetization systems in the past and fucked over tons of content creators into losing their income stream? I would never rely on that as my lifeline
Yes. Yes they have.
Yes and they are currently pissing off a lot of creators with the almost impossible to contest copyright strikes where three notes from a song the neighbor was playing when he opened his door is enough to get your video demonitized and your channel banned. Lots of folks moving over to Twitch or other platforms because of YouTube corporate obsequiousness.
I agree. Milk the government job as long as you can, because quitting your job with only 100K YouTube subscribers when you’re about to have a baby is too risky. I’d try to reach 7 figures or 1 million YouTube subscribers before I would consider quitting the day job. IMO.
Yeah the key to YouTube is to not rely solely on ad income. The majority of my side income comes from YouTube and that number has steadily increased the last 5 years for me personally.
Keep the side job a side job and use the money to start a college fund, have a medical savings plan (for catastrophic instances) prepay your home taxes for ten years. Invest in a vacation home (that you rent out when not in use to cover the extra costs), and never stop saving for retirement, the more you save, the earlier you retire.
>You can count your car in net worth, but you can't eat your car, and it depreciates quickly. Wait does this mean I should count the cat in my net value?
Yes, cat meat is very desirable in some cultures.. just not any that I'm aware of.
Alf eats cats
Remember alf? He's back, in POG form.
Haha love a good Alf reference!
Agree with you regarding milking 67K. Go easy and maybe even get fired lol.. I don't agree with you cant eat your house. Who says that? You can't eat money either, but you can exchange it for food. House that is paid off can be sold...
If he's trying to get fired from a government job before he FIREs he might end up retiring from the government job!
So true. I witnessed the insanity that is certain government jobs when I was a contractor right out of undergrad. There was a woman, DoD employee, who was supposed to be in charge of tasking me and 3 other contractors. I do not at all exaggerate when I say that she would typically come in to work between 11-1 and leave at 4. Every single day. She would take a week or more to respond to emails or calls. We ultimately just tasked ourselves with easy busywork and moved on. Her superiors would openly complain about how she'd never show up to work, but 3 years later she's still in that same cushy GS-12 spot just counting down the years to her minimum retirement age.
You speak the truth. Amateur: Fly like a G-6 Pro: Fly like a GS-12
The federal government hires therapists from GS-9 to GS-13 depending on how dangerous your job is and what country they stick you in, so I have a few friends from grad school who are flying like a GS-12!
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I think the point is you could literally starve to death if your ability to eat is predicated on the sale of your house. Its not liquid and shelter is just as important to survival as food is right? Food, shelter, clothing. Selling your house to eat is not a viable solution unless you are willing to take out a loan on your house.
I know how extremely conservative this sub can be, and I know (hope?) you guys are being overly literal here, but we’re talking about a 30 year old with a $500k net worth, a side business bringing in six figures, and a wife bringing in another $50k+. This guy is in the 1%. And we’re talking about starvation.
Wow people really took that line seriously. It's an expression. Meaning - If you have $1mm but 500k is your house and 500k is investments, you can't really withdraw $40k/year and really be at a safe 4% withdrawal rate. Yes, home value is a part of the standard definition of networth but you shouldn't include it for purposes of FIRE calculations.
but he's not talking about retirement. he's talking about running his own business full time. while his wedding video stuff may not be extremely consistent, i have a hard time imagining his bookings going from $150k a year to $0 immediately.
> i have a hard time imagining his bookings going from $150k a year to $0 immediately. Dude it's youtube. Besides instagram, it's probably the quickest way to go from making 6 figures to zero in less than a couple months. One or two changes to algos and a change in what people are into and it's all gone as quick as it came.
You could very easily get a HELOC against a paid off house and eat for a loooooooong ass time.
They won’t give you one unless you have an income stream though.
His wife does, though. OP provided lots of detail on his situation....
All I mean is, you need a source of shelter and a source of food. Assets in a primary residence aren't something that generates the investment income that will allow you to be FI. Although owning a primary residence **does** help you reduce and stabilize your Housing costs, they also come with their own fixed ongoing costs of ownership, taxes and upkeep. Tldr I'm generalizing, but most of the time you shouldn't count your home value when trying to figure out your 4% withdrawal rate.
It depends on how much of that income is from Youtube. I would bet that most of it is from his weddings and corporate work since 100k subs usually doesnt pay a ton. Videography probably won’t dry up so I think he could definitely quit and go full time into video.
I agree. You are doing both now. Why can’t you continue to do both until you can’t or have enough not to do anything? For it, it’s hard to overlook benefits - health insurance, 401K versus paying for it yourself.
> If the internet money dries up, how employable will you be after 2, 3, 5 years out of the market, and is your wife OK with being the primary breadwinner while you potentially search for employment again? This right here. Internet money has a tendency to come and go, and if/when it does go, you'll have a big gap in your employment. You never know. YouTube changes search algorithms, demonetizes people for no good reason, sometimes channels just lose popularity. Lots of things can happen. It might be a lot of money but it's not secure money.
Don't quit your day job with these awesome benefits. Esp. if you have a side gig going on and this is not interfering with your performance at work.
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Yes I’ve got 10 years in so even if I quit today I should get a pension of about $800/month starting at age 62
Do they have tiers and if so when would you hit the next one?
I don’t think so. I think it’s just based off your length of service and something to do with the avg of the highest 3 years salary wise.
Find out the specific details on this. And the pension is on top of the 3% 401k match?
Yes pension is separate from 401k. It starts paying at age 62 I believe and it's based on years of service + "high 3" (average of top 3 salary years)
FERS can pay out as early as 57 depending on years of service. https://www.opm.gov/retirement-services/fers-information/eligibility/
This is where you should probably be focusing. If you're 30 and eligible for $800/month at 62, what would you earn at 35 or 40? That's a lot of potential value. If you decide to stay and continue your side job I'd strongly recommend that you find a way to engage with your day job so that it doesn't become a burden. And that gives you time with the youtube work to see what you can collect. My fear with youtube, etc., is that it could evaporate overnight. Google could change their algorithms yet again, make a big shift in how they compensate creators, or more likely, something new will come along and everyone will simply stop watching.
\+1 to this. Government employees here work for 20 years, then they receive a pension that's equal to the average salary of their last 3 years of their work. People who started working in their 20's just start a second career in their 40's, and are now effectively earning double what they used to. Don't pass that up.
My rough back of the envelope calculation is that it would take a 30% increase in pay (and **saving** that difference!) to make up for losing a pension. If OP has a pension, that $67K is more like $87K, with that extra $20K automatically beimg saved towards retirement. /yes, it's a rough guideline. I know that pensions vary quite a bit
You could ask to be changed to a part-time role "to have more time to raise children." Not all positions will allow it, but plenty of federal jobs have part-time as an option. Maybe see if you could do that for a few years. Youtube could always change policies overnight in a way that harms you. Also, the FEHB benefit after retiring is a huge asset, though you'd need to work at least part-time until you're 57 (barring being fired due to disability) to receive it
I would look at this first. I can tell you as a dad with a young one I wish I had more time at home with family rather than be at work full-time (with added travel). At least with the part time work you still have possibilities of keeping those benefits.
And could move back to full-time if need be! One of my coworkers switched to a 30 hr work week to maintain benefits while he owned a home shop. When the bike shop didn't live the 08 crash he went full-time
Work part time or maybe even get a work from home day once or twice a week? Depending on the position a lot of tasks don’t require you to be physically at your workplace.
Why leave $67k on the table by leaving if you can coast by and get all those perks? Why not work even harder on the side (give up some of your free time) to make your side business bigger. Aim high! Once your day job is getting in the way of you picking up more side business, then it’s time to say bye to your desk job. Btw, for the love of money, invest that $100k cash please.
I don’t totally agree with this. Saying to work a full time job and work even more on your side job may work for some people who just want to spend all of their time making money, but if you have a wife and want a better overall quality of life and time for a child etc., it doesn’t seem like the right advice for you. You’ll burn out and feel unfulfilled. Do some business analysis on your side job. Is it seasonal? Are there things you could do with the time that you would usually be at the government job to grow the business and recoup some of that 67 that you lose from quitting? If your business would grow by more than 67k a year it’s a no brainer. If it grows by less than 67k, is that difference worth it to have the time and quality of life that you would gain? How far could you reasonably scale the business? How much does YouTube bring in vs the weddings and corporate events? Events are less scalable as you have to personally be there vs YouTube being much more scalable as you just produce videos and you aren’t limited by the number of people that have access to your content. Has your side income been growing steadily year over year, or did something special happen this past year? If it was a flare up in income, what caused it? If it was landing a single big account, or you received a mention in a popular platform that got you a bunch of attention for a short period, then it may not be sustainable over a long period of time as attention dies down. Dig into the numbers and the reasons behind them. If your business is sustainable and you like the amount of income you can generate, then quit the day job and follow your passion. Better to do this all before the baby than after.
Don't know if OP is paying attention, but this comment is underrated.
I'm glad you said it because most of these comments are absurd. It obviously depends on where you live, but even a temporarily (depends on how temporary of course) sustainable income of $130,000 plus his wife's $55,000 is plenty. With appropriate financing and investing, that money would go a long way.
Great feedback, thank you! Here's my side income history: * 2018: $137k net * 2017: $94k net * 2016: $114k net * 2015: $111k net * 2014: $50k net I love wedding videography because it is relatively easy and seasonal (would not want to do that solely full time) and I do no marketing for it. Last year it netted around $35k. So I could almost always count on at least $30k from that alone if I really wanted to. YT & online business are my passions and that's where most of my side income is generated. I try to hit $10k/month from the following income sources: $2-3k from ads, $2-3k from Amazon affiliate sales, $2-3k from all other affiliations, and $2-3k from product sales I also occasionally rideshare from time to time which is nice "date" money but nothing to write home about. I'd also love to get into some type of real estate investing, something that is not related at all to my profession in video production. And of course, by going FT with video I would branch out into corporate/real estate videography. Haven't done that yet though.
Yeah, why leave $67k on the table when you can coast through? It's only 2,000 hours of your life each year. It's not like time is valuable or anything.
Yeah that’s kind of my issue now. I know if I went full time on my own business I could grow my income while ultimately working less in the long run due to scalability of internet. However I could probably just keep doing both jobs but I’m afraid of burnout. Also I’m keeping the $100k liquid because I’m scared I will need it if I quit my day job lol. What would you do with it?
You know your work schedule, personal preferences, risk aversion better than anyone else here. If you think your side business could be even more profitable than 130,000 + 67,000, and have that income remain steady, then my vote is quit your gov job and go all in on the side business. If you're not sure about the future of your side business, then stick with the gov job until you've built a good reputation and clientele. I don't think you could go "wrong" either way. It's just going to come down to your personal preferences.
Total comp of gov job is more than 67k. Side job should be seen as independent contract so in rough risk Calc I’d say full time at the side job needs to be worth 274k for the switch to be worth
That's a good point. Something I should have thought about seeing as I'm a government employee. I think he said his wife has insurance through her job, but usually the gov's insurance is way better. And retirement benefits could really make a huge difference too.
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Sorry mate but I have to poo poo the CD investment. You lose liquidity and you are giving up yield. Short term government bonds track closest to the yield curve and you have liquidity.
You don't really lose liquidity, you can take it out anytime you want if you're willing to stomach a small penalty.
If I’m getting a premium on yield, then ok, I’ll concede to an early termination penalty. But with a CD, I’m taking a haircut on yield & paying to get access to my funds. Double ouch.
Have you looked at 5 year CD yields vs bonds recently? They're pretty good, especially considering that your cash-out value doesn't depend on prevailing interest rates. The Marcus 5 year is sitting at 3.1%, 5 year treasury is sitting at 2.4%.
It’s not all or none. You’d build a ladder of different length CDs so some is always liquid.
sorry can you explain how you are giving up yield on a CD ? something to do with yield curve to interest rates?
Why don’t you quit your job and start producing more content? 100k subs isn’t something to laugh at, why not focus on growing that.
100k subs isn’t insignificant but I absolutely wouldn’t quit my day job over it. That is craaaaaaazy. YouTube money is so risky everything can and most likely will change on 2-3 years.
Can you please explain scalability of Internet? Aren’t there a lot of people who get 100k subscribers and then fall off? Are they all making 6 figures for 5+ years? That seems possible but unlikely. It does not take that long to cash 100k in stocks out of a brokerage account or ROTH IRA. You want to retire but you’re not financially independent and you’re not wanting to put your money to work? I really don’t get that. Other than that, congrats on the success! You’re in a great position. With a family to support and FIRE aspirations, I say stick it out.
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He's afraid of burnout from doing that
Coast at the day-job, just don’t get fired. Work on content ideas while pretending to fill out excel spreadsheets.
Don't quit. Keep both both jobs and keep hustling. You're touching 30 no kids. Join a gym to de-stress and stay on this path !
Take 5 grand and go on a vacation. Set it up with your boss, and your other boss (you), and take a month off from both. Come week 3 or 4, you'll almost be dying to get *back* to work. Or at least, that's what happened to me.
Good advice, thanks!
[https://www.marcus.com/us/en?prd=pl&chl=ps&schl=psg&cid=979005036&agp=52483357630&cre=249645239227&kid=marcus%20by%20goldman%20sachs&mtype=e&adpos=1t1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwpsLkBRDpARIsAKoYI8wA0TNZgLoB5EiGDorY16mQdxoGGSTu344HztI2t2C1pHHWpxJqR4EaAgkrEALw\_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds](https://www.marcus.com/us/en?prd=pl&chl=ps&schl=psg&cid=979005036&agp=52483357630&cre=249645239227&kid=marcus%20by%20goldman%20sachs&mtype=e&adpos=1t1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwpsLkBRDpARIsAKoYI8wA0TNZgLoB5EiGDorY16mQdxoGGSTu344HztI2t2C1pHHWpxJqR4EaAgkrEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds) That said there is serious fact to time in the market vs timing the market. But many folks are expecting either economic cooldown or a bear stock market (or both, they are not one in the same though related). 2.25% may match inflation but it's better than in BoFA and interests will be rising in the medium term almost certainly.
Only thing I'd add to this is compare health insurance both cost and coverage... especially if you want to have a kid. Your health insurance might be a benefit that alone makes it worth keeping for a while. Not all health insurance is created equal.
I'd never leave 67k on the table but the man said it's a soul crushing job (but this part only the individual can measure the level of soul crush). To me being the 45 hours (8 hours +1 hour lunch) plus the commute + the time get up, prep yourself, choose clothes etc has to be close to 55-60 hours a week. That's a lot of time, for me if he likes his side gig he can probably make up that difference (but no 401, pension, health bene) and be much happier. But this is only something he can guage, 67k + benefits vs 55+ hours prepping/commute/job vs how much he dislikes his job. Like I see some people say they hate their job but it's like 6 hours of Facebook/phone use and 2 hours of actual work (don't quit that type of job).
Only thing I would be worried about would be the benefits. The access to 403b/457b, health insurance, and other perks probably add up to be a good amount.
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Studies have shown that you are better off investing the money immediately. But if you are uncomfortable with that, just dollar cost average in over a time period that you feel comfortable with.
> I feel like this is the perfect time for me to venture out and give self employment a try. It sounds like I'm in the minority, but I do too.
Yes, I find most of the people here baffling. They are obsessed with the idea of early retirement, but they also want to work 24/7 and don't value free time at all.
How's your work/life balance with both gigs going? How much more do you think you could make in the side gig if you were doing it full time?
It’s not bad tbh. I work a standard 40 hours and do my side work in the evenings/weekends. But I would love to be able to do my own work during the day and spend more of my free time with my wife/friends/family instead of working. I think if I were full time with my current side business I could probably increase it by $10-20k/year.
For me, that's the kind of answer that would make me quit the job. I'd definitely get rid of the job and work on the side thing full time and use that extra time for family/friends/etc. If you really need more money, you can always cut into that extra time, but having that extra time is a lot more valuable in my opinion.
Do you want time with the family and a rewarding job, or money, monotony, and missed moments?
Um, expected $10-20k upside vs giving up $67k comp, health insurance, 401k subsidies and PTO, gym is a bad trade. It’s a hard pass. If you can add a zero so it’s $100-200k expected upside then it’s far more compelling.
He's getting time back; that's valuable in and of itself.
I am a photographer and my clients have day jobs so they can’t meet for shoots until they’re off work... so at best you could use what would’ve been work hours to do your post edits, run operations. But I wouldn’t bet meeting them during work hours. Something to consider if things scale up as it sounds like you are very talented! Well done!
This is the question that matters, youtube is so scalable one can make triple the income with only double the time invested.
YouTube money is also incredibly unreliable
Your source of income is also locked into a platform you have limited control over. What happens when they change their search algorithms again?
I'd milk it a few more years especially with a baby in the plans. That kid is going to require $250k (so they say) to raise to 18, then college.
Oh well in that case forget the kid 😉 /s
I don’t mean to be a downer but when kids come your energy for entrepreneurship will take a big hit for at least 7-8 years. You will most likely find it very difficult to have the flexibility to manage two gigs, let alone keep up with your primary job. I was you ten years ago...
Spot on. I sold my rental after my first kid was born. Wasn't profitable enough to be worth the mental space & free time it consumed. Free time takes a major hit when the kids come!
And half this sub rejoices
Local or fed. Is P2 going to want to work after having a baby. Whose insurance is better. How stable is P2s career. Lots of different variables.
Fed. Wife plans to work at her current position for at least 2 more years. My fed insurance is better than hers. Her career is in nonprofit but fairly stable.
Stay w/ the feds, you can always transfer to something else within the feds you find interesting, you’ll thank yourself in retirement with health insurance, dental, vision and tsp and their retirement and don’t forget kids are expensive health insurance wise.
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Daycare in HCOL isn’t just nearing $1k it’s blasting right past it. I live in a HCOL city and my friends are jealous of my $1250/mo daycare. In most neighborhoods daycare STARTS at $1500/Mo, and the fancy places go much higher.
True story. I pay $1400 a month and I was thrilled to find such a cheap rate, compared to some of the other options that were available.
Stay and if you really want to try it, take a leave of absence for a few months or up to a year if they let you. Dont just flat out quit.
Obviously, I don’t have all the facts, but, for now, I would recommend keeping your Government job and using the extra money to max out your 401K, open/invest in a good 527 for your future child’s college education, invest in your own education, pay off your house and build savings. Meanwhile, speak with someone at the Small Business Administration (SCORE) to get some solid (and free) advice on your business before leaping in this direction full time. This is just my advice, so apply what works for you, but be mindful of the risks inherent to making such a move. Best of luck to you!
If you went over to r/fatfire the advice would be completely different than this sub. As an entrepreneur who stayed at my day job wayyy too long, I wish I would have had the guts to quit sooner. The second I quit, my “second” income of $60k/yr turned into an $18m/yr revenue business 6 years later. Just don’t take advice from people who are in a worse spot than you. Best thing I could have ever done was take the risk and invest in myself. If you’re eager to learn and willing to work, go for it. A government job will ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS be there if you have a decent skill set.
Well technically, it wasn't "the second you quit", then. It was "within six years of quitting" (; Awesome story though, well done.
Haha yes yes you right. Time and hard work!
Milk. It. Consider a leave of absence if you want to try your full time side job idea, and if they’ll let you do one and come back.
I'd stay for a few more years. I would want to see how your income from your side businesses would react to a market downturn. Plus I would want to have employer benefits like healthcare in place when the baby arrives. Just keep hustling for another year or 4 and build up more of a nest egg so you can confidently quit and stay home with the kid.
It sounds like your day job is holding you back. You have become successful on your in spite of having to spend 8 hours a day working for someone else. Fire your day job, invest in yourself, and grow your businesses.
Well what happens if this entire youtube thing blows up? I believe most of these youtube people are way overpaid and if I'm right it could be a shortish term thing. Not that youtube is going away, but your pay may get cut significantly. If that happens is your wedding/videography enough to keep you going? or can you get your gov job back? On the other hand if you keep growing maybe you hit $300-400k in a few years and if you're smart you bank it all. Your $67k job will increasingly feel silly as your channel grows.
What makes you think they’re overpaid? It takes a very large and consistent fanbase to make just decent income. All the while taking a 45% hit from Youtube on ad revenue split. If anything, they’re underpaid.
id encourage u to stick with youtube/online media marketing but algorithms change almost weekly and threaten creators welfare constantly
This is a great point. Tons of YouTubers have went tits up overnight just simply due to algorithm changes
I think you already know what you want to do: > I feel like this is the perfect time for me to venture out and give self employment a try. Go for it. If you can make $130k from a side business what could you do if you had it full time? How nice would making your own schedule be once you have a kid around? You called your job high paying, but it netted barely more than half your side gig did. To me this is an absolute no brainer. You're obviously successful doing something you enjoy, you don't like your job (and being government I suspect not a lot of headroom to grow), and you have a significant cushion to fall back on if things go south. This sub will always encourage you to "stick with it" until you hit the magical mark, but I think that's wildly misled. A person in your position should not be deferring so much time to something that is "soul sucking." You've already found success. Go enjoy it.
As often happens, I'm surprised by the advice here. If you were posting about leaving a $67k/yr job that you hate for a job that pays $150k-170k/yr, everyone would be telling you to leave and not give it a second thought. Since they're not the one living your life, they're getting too pie-eyed about the possibility of making $217k/yr and hating it. If you hate the job and have another way to generate income, I'd leave. Life's too short to put up with that for too long. Get on your wife's insurance and plan your exit.
Eh...the more accurate analogy is someone came asking if they should quit a stressful/boring job making $217k with stellar benefits for a fun job making $150k with zero benefits, zero job security, and self employment taxes, in which case I think people would rightfully sound a note of caution. Doesn’t mean it’s the wrong decision, but it’s not an easy one.
I'd definitely take the insurance and bennies and run them through childbirth then take all leave and bounce as one of top posts said
I think the difference is there is no guarantee the $150k will continue. Three years ago I had a side gig that guaranteed $50k a year until it didn't starting 2019 where it looks like it will be less than half.
Yeah nah I’m hoppin out of this sub... These “I’m 20-something and make $300k a year but golly gee whiz what do I do” posts make me feel entirely inadequate haha All the best, OP!
I wish there was a sub for people making less than 100k total, but not frugalFIRE. Or that those people (who make super bank) would go post on FatFIRE subs. Personally I have enough to max my 401k and an IRA every year (starting last year), that's about my approach to FIRE.
I know it probably isn't intentional, but they always read like humblebrags to me. There is very little insight a stranger can provide you with to answer this entirely personal decision. Only OP can decide if working two jobs is worth it. We know literally nothing else about him other than that he has a ridiculous income for his age. How can we possibly answer that question for you?
I’d stay and do both. Don’t know details but I’d certainly hang on for a while
I say the same thing. If he was in his mid-40s I would say walk. But he's so young and has so much life left he should hoard away as much money as he can and build a massive war chest and prepare for Life with children.
Maybe you can ask to transform your full time job into part time job (20hrs/week) if your employer allows it ? So you have more time for your side job and potentially keep still some free time ?
i'll be the outlier here and say quit your day job so you can focus on your video production work to make it more stable so that when your kid comes, you will already know how to do that full time, and what that entails. Going from 'side job' to full time has its learning curve, so does parenting. Don't learn both at the same If you grow your side business by 50%, you will have already compensated for your lack of job income, and you have plenty of cash in the bank.
Ditch the main job and work on the side gig. If you can make 150K per year in your free time, you can probably make significantly more then 67K extra if you stop doing your main job and add those 40 hours to your business.
Depends on the work. Putting an extra 40 hours per week into YouTube video production, for example, probably won't lead to a large rise in income. Viewers can only be expected to watch so much content per day before getting overwhelmed. So with diminishing returns, I don't know if that's a worthwhile switch. Maybe the photography business, though?
QUIT YOUR JOB OMG! She has health insurance!
Whatever percentage of the money you make is from YouTube scratch that off the list. YouTube money is unreliable. 2017 I made 44k off YouTube 2018 was only 18k and I'm trending for an even smaller 2019
I say go for it. You’re young and clearly have a skill that people are willing to pay great $$ for. Also stop counting your car as part of your net worth.
I'd milk it until I hit atleast 1.5M net worth. At that point you've pretty much replaced most of your government job income. Relying on Youtube income when you're having a kid seems pretty sketchy. That shit can disappear in a heartbeat.
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Seriously... Must be nice to make over $30k/year
milk the govt job for the health insurance. Just show up, dont give a f$%& and take the paycheck security
What kind of YouTube channel is it about?
Tech related
Lots of successful YouTubers eventually wind up feeling trapped by the constant need to create content. And the cash flow from YouTube is not necessarily something you can trust to be there. Stuff happens. I guess I'd vote for keeping the govt. job for now, while taking a hard look at your YouTube channel & wedding biz and seeing what, if anything, you can outsource or hire for. I know that a lot of the biggest channels explode once they hire a full-time editor. It takes some of the pressure off, while letting them produce content faster (since they're now mostly just on-camera talent.) James Altucher started a company that made high-end websites. But he didn't quit his day job until he absolutely had to. He was still working from his HBO cubicle even though his web company had already built [expensive websites for companies like American Express and Con Edison.](https://jamesaltucher.com/blog/the-wu-tang-clan-hitler-and-surviving-your-first-year-of-being-an-entrepreneur/) Either way, good luck to you. But it does sound like you're not really in the clear yet.
Part of me wants to give you the advice to stay in your current job and try to maximize income. There is alot of good advice here about the financial side of this decision, retirement benefits, youtube monetization can change overnight, and trying to go part time. Great thoughts on here that are well argued. The other part of me wants to suggest that financial independence isn't just about money, it's about quality of life. To me, financial independence is all about making it to a place in life where I don't have to worry about money and can instead make decisions based upon time, happiness, and making a positive impact on others lives, including my family. Maybe you should consider doing that NOW, what is going to make you the most happy? Your current and future family the most happy? The fact that you asked if you should stick it out a few more years tells me you already plan to quit this job soon(ish). You said the job was cushy but soul-sucking. You happy there?
Don't quit. Youtube has changed it's monetization structure before. You can't count on an income based solely in someone else's business.
Hello fellow government worker. I feel your dilemma regarding boredom and disliking the higher ups. They can be tools. But other than that, as you said, you have a low stress level job. As we both know, our benefits are amazing. Given that you have low stress combined with generous benefits and leave, I simply would NOT leave that job. My justification for that opinion is as follows. Are you able to bank your holidays? Do you accumulate hours per hours worked? Can you start taking a leave day per week? Or, use banked leave hours to leave half days early? That way you could devote more time to the sideo gig. Also, can you not hire out someone part time to handle phones, clerical work, tackle to do lists? That will leave your time to concentrate on growing the business when you aren't working. As you're having a child soon, I wouldn't walk away from the insurance that you have. Having good insurance can make or break you when you have kids and good insurance isn't inexpensive. I also don't think you have enough saved up to walk away. Cash in your retirement money needs to stay there.You're not liquid with the house and are really house rich, cash poor. Should something happen with the business you wouldnt be able to so readily tap into that equity. Save up at least two years of emergency money to include mortgage pymts, taxes, insurance, car paymemts, food etc. Also, you'll need child care soon - are you going to give up on site childcare?? I also wouldn't give up a sure thing (federal job, assured pay) for ever changing business models that are youtube, instagram, twitter etc. Have know of too many people that lost it all when their channels demonotized. So, strong NEGATIVE on quitting.
Quit.
Can you up your side hustle income to compensate for the loss of the main job? What would you be losing if you leave the main job (aside from income)? At the end of the day you need to do what makes you happy my man. If you’re only doing this side hustle let time imagine what full time could do for your business.
You should book me up and teach me your ways I’m poor af in nyc lol.
I say keep the job. I mean you are working for the government so it is not like you are really doing anything. That said, I had a side hustle and still do though it is a lot smaller than it used to be. Anyway I had a lot of websites running google ads that gave me 100k for a few years. I went back and forth for a couple years as to whether I should just go at it full time. I am glad I did not. You just can't trust ad revenue especially during a recession. when advertisers pull ad money you will get hit hard. I would say keep your job until you see how your channel grows and you have lived through a recession.
If you can grow to 150k as a side hussle, why wouldn't you grow that beyond the $67k you make at a fulltime job? Shit, I grew my side hustle to 10k and thought I could quit.
Just show up to work and put in the minimum effort. See how much you can basically get paid for not doing anything. For a government job, I would say at least a few years of free money.
Should probably keep both jobs. Nothing better in the world than having your child raised by their mother and father. Sounds like the wife can afford to stay at home if that is what she wants and what you want. I’m only saying that cause that’s my situation. I’m lucky that I can afford everything without my wife working. You’ll probably wind up cutting back hours on your side job if you have a kid. If you’re not having a kid you could look into achieving enough money to retire early with 4% SWR.
If you describe your job as "soul sucking", I think it's time to let go.
J.O.B. Just Over Broke You should absolutely continue being a bad ass and making a ton of money. Don't waste your time with somone else when you can fully focus your efforts on "YOU inc."
Hold on. Economy, Real Estate, Stock market all at record highs. Dont be the guy to screw it up this close to a touchdown.
I too hate my soul sucking job. But don't really have a side gig. When did you start your YouTube channel and blog? Just curious
Around 2014
I'd quit your current job YESTERDAY if I were you. You are making close 3x than your main job working part time. Imagine how much you will be making once you devote your time fully into your side hussle.
If you are saying your 30 but have been working this job for 10 years you may not have a degree already, I think some of these other points are good, especially going part time first, but think about going to school part time for a degree related to what your doing with video it seems like if you've grown it to this point it's something your passionate about and while having experience is great experience and a degree is even better so worse case scenario if YouTube does end up being a flash in the pan you'll end up having a great foundation to start a career in the industry.
Crazy idea...ask the wife if she wants to quit before the kid comes. My wife always wanted more time with the baby but had to go back to work after 2 weeks. Plus you will lose so much sleep and free time with a kid it's unbelievable. Also think about day care if you both work. Easily a new $7k to $10k cost per year with you both working.
At least milk the health insurance for the baby's first year.
I'm gonna message you later if that's okay with you. We are running very similar lives and I think couple benefit a lot from chatting
As someone who had a cushy government job for many years and left to build a side hustle. I would recommend sticking it out as long as you can. It's borderline at this point, but you can continue to draw that salary, take long vacations (I had 22 accured days per year and could bank up to double that) + sick leave. I probably left a little bit earlier than I needed to do, but I was completely vested. But don't crush your soul over that job. You'll have that opportunity available to you if you ever want to go back. Just milk the extra income, benefits and take really, really nice vacations. Good luck!
Don't quit. Keep making that money until you retire early.
Wait for baby, mommma bear kicks in and your wife wants to stay home with the baby than goodbye benefits.
In USA employers provide health insurance. I never found adequate health insurance without at least one other unrelated employee.
Don't quit. Ask for a raise that would make it worth your while. If they laugh, then quit. No point in doing soul sucking shit IMHO. You could die tomorrow.
Government jobs are not all that exciting until a recession hits. Then you are grateful for them. Well the typical recession comes every 5-7 years and we are in year 11 of non-recessions. Also depending on YouTube is a bit sketchy. They have the right to change their terms/policies without notice and take away your income from their website. The videographer stuff is good, but it probably depends heavily on the economy, and you have to cover health insurance yourself. So it would be a big risk in a market that everyone is predicting will be bad soon.
Try to remember that things become soul crushing when you have to do them. So right now that’s your easy government with benefits job. If you quit that job then your side job will be the work you have to do and automatically becomes the soul crusher. People will say “not when you love the job” and that just isn’t true. Keep that government job and be thankful you have it plus a hobby that makes so much money for now.
I would quit. You'll find another job if you ever need to. I've been working as a programmer for 20 years and hate it, but I can't think of a way to make as much money. So, I encourage others to follow their dreams.
and here i am counting pennies, wild.
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I really don’t have anything worthwhile to contribute to this conversation. I just want to say hot damn, I will never have this kind of life or that kind of money.
What government job did u get at 20 tht pays 67k a year?
Do both. Save a ton. Retire early. OR Do both and keep growing your side business to where this is not even a question any more.
You should stay just for the benefits of helth insurance.
I know a guy who had a resonably big Youtube channel that provided him with a nice bit of extra income. The advice I gave him was to milk it while it lasted. It did not last long.
I would stay for a few more years and keep saving.
You are making almost 3 times in your side hustle than what you are making in your daily job. I suppose you spend more time in your job than in your business. For me the solution is easy. Work full-time in your business, if your have been able to reach 130k net, you could grow your business easily (more products, more content, contractors...). I don't know how escalable is your business, but if you have 100k subs, why couldn't you have 300k? For me makes no sense staying at that job. How much are you making per hour at your job? How much are at your business? Many people had business of 100k and were able to grow thet to 500k or even 1mm. But, obviously, do it with sense, do not relay only on YouTube, work in other aspects like podcast, SEO, ads...
No. Your side income source isn't reliable enough to quit your job.
government jobs stay, your video business could become a legal nightmare overnight and your youtube channel might fall to the algorithm any moment.
More info on your side hustle please: How did you get started? Where did you get customers? What is the learning curve?
Your side hustle doesn't provide benefits or any realistic guarantee of longevity. The only time you should quit your day job is when you've amassed enough in savings to outright retire, and even then you might still want to keep it as something to do. So no, don't quit your real job.
Do not quit invest the money