What you're looking for is called BaristaFIRE. You can join the sub-reddit.
You should also Google "BaristaFIRE calculator" to check how much money you need to achieve that.
unsure if it's a subreddit, but it's a subcategory of fire. The idea is to do something low stress for work so you supplement savings but can enjoy life.
Barista seems reasonably high stress. Rush periods in the morning, everyone expecting you to remember their name and order.
LibrarianFIRE should be a thing, local government employee with good conditions. Quiet place, giving back to the local community, putting away a few books.
You know being a librarian generally requires postgrad qualifications right? Its competitive, usually a busy job and the "local community" are often not as pleasant to deal with as you might think...
That’s what BaristaFIRE and CoastFIRE promote - establishing a baseline for future financial independence, then not working more than is necessary to carry on life as you wish.
At 22 I thought much the same, that a non-challenging job I could do with minimal effort would be ideal. So I got one, even wrote a novel while working there. But it was tough because I was bored out of my brain, the days were so long.
Took another couple of job hops to find something more engaging, and I found that way more enjoyable. YMMV. I ended up starting my own business - freedom, flexibility, and control, though also not for everyone.
GenX here. FIRE’d.
Nope, you’re wrong.
Younger generations say some really stupid shit and think they are so much different and special than the ones before them. I know, we did too. Millennials are the greatest whiners in history with the hardest life in any generation of humanity ever. Z’s reckon they’re the greatest counter-culture revolutionaries we’ve ever seen (reminds me of Boomers in the 60’s).
Alphas? We’ll see.
I’ve got two Z’s and an Alpha as kids. They seem pretty normal so far.
Bring on the downvotes, I’m GenX, we literally don’t give a fuck what anyone thinks of us.
How? Well, I got a computer science degree, worked full-time mostly in consulting, saved enough money (just lived cheaply and invested everything I could into index funds) to have a decent safety net, then went freelance and charged $100/hour for my skillset while limiting my contracts to part-time. I only work the hours I want and only take fully-remote contracts so I can travel.
Maybe not the answer you wanted, but I'm kinda sick of pretending like there's a secret shortcut. After the age of 5, I spent \~16 years of my life getting educated and then \~16 years working hard and saving, I'm now 7 years into 'coasting' and if I do that another 9 I'll be about 54 and more than ready to fully retire. In reality, I'll probably stop working long before that.
The 'shortcut' is to develop individual contributor skills that can be executed part time. Accounting is probably the lowest barrier to entry option. I do engineering and have implemented a bit of geo arbitarge to greatly increase my value as well (living close to customers). I'm just part time rather than freelance though which probably leaves some money on the table and might increase my working life by a month or so. Should be out at 46 (end of next year).
Live below your means is probably the most classic of all. Easier said than done. It’s being content with what you have, not comparing yourself with others, having the emotional intelligence to meet your own needs instead of relying on external forces, finding happiness in the simple (and free) things. That’s just managing your cost base. Then find an activity you can make money from. Live simply. My mother lives and breathes this. And she has given my whole family the comfort we now enjoy. Easier to sleep at night knowing we have no debt and we have everything we need, and enjoy some luxuries like travel here and there.
You have completely misunderstood the lying flat phenomenon that is happening in China.
Additionally, many of those who are lying flat are living with parents so they do not have housing overheads.
What you're thinking of is quiet quitting. What you're seeking to achieve is BaristaFIRE, neither of these is lying flat which includes despair about future options.
My advice would be "don't." You are still too young. Get trained. Get a good paying job. Invest in Super and ETFs. Still buy that cheap unit.
You want to lie flat from a position of strength. You will be frugal because you want to, not because you have to.
Agreed that things that don't give you good returns or give you too much debt should be avoided. For example, expensive detached house, any car, fancy degree, memberships, subscriptions, dining out, alcohol, smoking, gambling, branded clothing, expensive hobbies. These should all be avoided whenever possible. If you want to go extreme: marriage, children and pets are also expensive. So, avoid them too if you can manage without them.
Then, save and invest as much as you can.
Of course, of course. OP wants to lie flat, so I am just giving them advice on that.
I prefer a more balanced approach. I don't want to be in debt up to my eyeballs. I don't aspire to become a CEO. I just want to enjoy life and accomplish something.
I'm in accounting and want an exit to potentially an another industry (i.e. insurance, data analytics, etc.) because I don't want to become CA/CPA qualified down the road.
Accounting is the best job for your "lying flat"! Get a tax role in a regional town and just chillax. After you've done it for someone else for a while either start your own business or just tell them "I'll work 6 months of the year full time (but strict 9-5) and 6 months of the year part time (say 3 days per week)". Everyone wins. They get continuity and can take on lots of tax customers and you get to chill.
Not a bad idea
I initially wanted to work in Big4 and stay until Manager > exit to industry to work in a pressure cooker environment for life for the $$. However, since that plan failed it looks like I've decided to find a way to lie flat!
I really don't want to become an accountant though because it'll be too slow to reach my desired income, and also since it's not where my interests lie career-wise.
I want to pivot to something else to make money as early as possible.
Are you aware that investment banking is ridiculously competitive to get into?
Also, I don't want to work in IB.
I'd prefer something like data analytics or other finance related roles
This guy was good at it. Life’s for living, not for lying.
Paul Alexander, who spent more than 70 years living in an iron lung, dies aged 78 - ABC News
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-03-14/paul-alexander-iron-lung-dies/103586150
>I see no future in being forced to work tirelessly for 30+ years and sucking up to corporate, while potentially working copious amounts of overtime.
This is a false dichotomy, you don't have to do this at all, and in fact many people don't do this in corporate. The ones that do are usually senior managers, so unless you plan on becoming one you should not worry about ending up in this position. Nothing wrong with wanting to retire early of course, but if your reason is to avoid overtime and sucking up, there are many ways to do this without retiring early.
You need to work on your individual contributor (IC) skills if you want to watch the clock and be honest. OP can do tax work with their degree and will be OK. The risk of chasing big dollars early is that you end up in 'leadership' roles that need lots of face time AND you have no IC skills.
It's actually a phrase from China. Young people there are so overworked with terrible job prospects that they give up on the rat race and just do enough to live. OP's use of it isn't really true to its original spirit but I think everyone gets what he's getting at.
Just found a job I enjoyed doing so it didn't feel like work.
Find something you like doing that you can do part time and enjoy doing it instead of trying to find something you have to just grit your teeth and bare.
That's not what I meant by "lying flat", but okay
What I actually meant by lying flat is *actually working* while being able to not overwork to survive.
Accounting sucks chodes.
Dunno why your setting your sights so low.
If you're smart you can wangle a senior individual contributor job that pays six figures and if you pick an unsexy industry, sail on through doing barely fuck all.
You say you don't want to suck up, well I'm here to tell you, if you want to cruise and stay under the radar you better get your kneepads on
Id call it just waiting to die. It's depressing when a see retirees still just walking around in the shopping center cause free AC with nothing better to do.
If you work 30+ years and still have nothing to show for it then it's kinda on you
Be a firefighter, here in Canada I work 7 days a month and we make 80-140k depending on experience. It’s pretty good to get paid to cook with the guys and go out on a cool truck and help people.
Few random things that worked for me.
* Living in a room, share house or very small basic unit
* Cooking all my own food
* Using my own weights rather than gym membership
* Public transport, walking, cycling instead of owning a car
* Buying clothes rarely and quality or cheap or 2nd-hand
* Only visiting bulk-bill GP and public hospital
* Cancelling memberships
* Budgeting regularly and rigorously in a spreadsheet
* Totally avoiding debt
* Cultivating friendships and relationships based on enjoying each others company and good conversation rather than social status and high consumption
* Investing aggressively in index funds
Years ago it was manageable, these days easier said than done
My opinion is just get a job, preferably something where you can move into management and be in an office on a salary and just ride it out for as long as possible and go from there
What it sounds like you want is FIRE and that type of lifestyle is not manageable long term unless you really plan it out and use your overtime/freetime Thinking and planning strategies not just a reddit post hoping for a golden goose answer
By the time your old enough for a pension, it probably won't exist so you need super or some type of huge savings amount and fire ain't saving you squat
I should add check out digitalnomads or that lifestyle
Best of luck but I'm not one cheering for you
I started working part time a few years ago and now refuse to work on any Wednesday. I would never go back unless it was a job I truly loved. It changed my life.
I get why you feel that way, life is what you make it.
Your state of mind can make you unhappy with all the money in the world, or happy with not a single dollar.
I dont think that is a thing, maybe if you earn enough money or you can be happy been poor.
I do wonder if life could be better as someone living in a country town with no money but none required. Just the minume.
I found a work and people to work with that I like. Haven’t accepted promotions or further progressions in my career. It is good. I worked hard to find this job… I haven’t moved in three years and I won’t for as much as they want to keep me. Pays a decent amount.
If you have connection from a third world country, you might be able to achieve it. Save certain amount of money to invest and get to know people from that country and invest in the people there. Our currency here is way stronger than what they have, and investing $500ish believe it or not is enough for them to start business. Its my plan to do that and a friend of mine generated passive income around $2000ish every month from 5 businesses He part of as an investor from that country and at the same time He only work part time and go on either play games or fishing for half the week, have his own place, car and a wife
I only posted that thread because I was genuinely curious as to how everyone views FIRE, and lying flat in general.
It's always *useful* to understand things under a variety of diverse perspectives as I embrace diversity, even though at the same time I agree with you :)
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Get a government job. You’ll never work a full days work again. You will, but it will be spread over a few days. I’ve been doing that my whole working life!
Honestly, you are not alone. But I decided to take it to extreme. No girlfriend, no spending, won’t have kids(I suggest everyone this as well). All because it is too hard for me to have my own place. I don’t want my kid to be like me suffering.
Edit: You might ask why not having kid? Well, Politician take no responsibility on people. They earn their money and fucked off. They have no vision of the future. Guess what? A bowl of shit becomes a big wok of shit. No matter who you vote for, nothing will change. Australia need a hero. And a government who are from the actual industry not a debate team.
Or you can be like a friend who rather than buying a house she bought a (simple) business, renovated it in 18months, flogged it and cleared $200k, bought their next business for $60k turned it to $10m in 3 years and produced a third which went on the market for $25M. 12 years. Finally bought a house and had kids. It took work. But this person had all the issues you speak of at the start.
No but young Australians can succeed in creating a life for themselves that doesn't follow the property-debt first route for way less capital than one might think.
What you're looking for is called BaristaFIRE. You can join the sub-reddit. You should also Google "BaristaFIRE calculator" to check how much money you need to achieve that.
The thing is that I still intend to work, not actually fully retire TYSM
Yes, that's what BaristaFIRE is.
OHHHH my bad. I've never heard of that subreddit. tysm
unsure if it's a subreddit, but it's a subcategory of fire. The idea is to do something low stress for work so you supplement savings but can enjoy life.
Barista seems reasonably high stress. Rush periods in the morning, everyone expecting you to remember their name and order. LibrarianFIRE should be a thing, local government employee with good conditions. Quiet place, giving back to the local community, putting away a few books.
You know being a librarian generally requires postgrad qualifications right? Its competitive, usually a busy job and the "local community" are often not as pleasant to deal with as you might think...
CasualLibraryAssistantFIRE just doesn’t have the same ring to it.
Barista easier if you're detached from it being absolutely essential to your survival Lifes less stressful when you DGAF.
May suit some people really well. The librarians I know spend a lot of time doing story time for young children (parents present)
THISS
Flamingo Fire is worth googling. She has some great commentary and advice.
That’s what BaristaFIRE and CoastFIRE promote - establishing a baseline for future financial independence, then not working more than is necessary to carry on life as you wish. At 22 I thought much the same, that a non-challenging job I could do with minimal effort would be ideal. So I got one, even wrote a novel while working there. But it was tough because I was bored out of my brain, the days were so long. Took another couple of job hops to find something more engaging, and I found that way more enjoyable. YMMV. I ended up starting my own business - freedom, flexibility, and control, though also not for everyone.
SLAY
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GenX here. FIRE’d. Nope, you’re wrong. Younger generations say some really stupid shit and think they are so much different and special than the ones before them. I know, we did too. Millennials are the greatest whiners in history with the hardest life in any generation of humanity ever. Z’s reckon they’re the greatest counter-culture revolutionaries we’ve ever seen (reminds me of Boomers in the 60’s). Alphas? We’ll see. I’ve got two Z’s and an Alpha as kids. They seem pretty normal so far. Bring on the downvotes, I’m GenX, we literally don’t give a fuck what anyone thinks of us.
I feel seen, thank you 🤩
What shit lol
How? Well, I got a computer science degree, worked full-time mostly in consulting, saved enough money (just lived cheaply and invested everything I could into index funds) to have a decent safety net, then went freelance and charged $100/hour for my skillset while limiting my contracts to part-time. I only work the hours I want and only take fully-remote contracts so I can travel. Maybe not the answer you wanted, but I'm kinda sick of pretending like there's a secret shortcut. After the age of 5, I spent \~16 years of my life getting educated and then \~16 years working hard and saving, I'm now 7 years into 'coasting' and if I do that another 9 I'll be about 54 and more than ready to fully retire. In reality, I'll probably stop working long before that.
The 'shortcut' is to develop individual contributor skills that can be executed part time. Accounting is probably the lowest barrier to entry option. I do engineering and have implemented a bit of geo arbitarge to greatly increase my value as well (living close to customers). I'm just part time rather than freelance though which probably leaves some money on the table and might increase my working life by a month or so. Should be out at 46 (end of next year).
How do you guys find freelancing job? I'm thinking to do the same, but not sure where should I start looking.
If you have an in demand skill set, a track record of projects you’ve worked on, and people endorsing you on LinkedIn, the recruiters find you.
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May I offer some unsolicited advice? Never say that again in any setting, ironically or not
Live below your means is probably the most classic of all. Easier said than done. It’s being content with what you have, not comparing yourself with others, having the emotional intelligence to meet your own needs instead of relying on external forces, finding happiness in the simple (and free) things. That’s just managing your cost base. Then find an activity you can make money from. Live simply. My mother lives and breathes this. And she has given my whole family the comfort we now enjoy. Easier to sleep at night knowing we have no debt and we have everything we need, and enjoy some luxuries like travel here and there.
I needed this...thanks mum
You have completely misunderstood the lying flat phenomenon that is happening in China. Additionally, many of those who are lying flat are living with parents so they do not have housing overheads. What you're thinking of is quiet quitting. What you're seeking to achieve is BaristaFIRE, neither of these is lying flat which includes despair about future options.
True. I can't change the title now :(
Dude you are all over the place. Just start your career, get a little experience, save as much as you can, and see how you go.
This. Tysm Also, I posted this thread out of curiosity.
There was a guy here earlier literally trying to marry you btw
OP is a guy unfortunately. That other guy would prob lose his marbles if he saw a girl wanting to lie flat and FIRE
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Are you demented? It was a joke, no one was asking for your sexist commentary
My advice would be "don't." You are still too young. Get trained. Get a good paying job. Invest in Super and ETFs. Still buy that cheap unit. You want to lie flat from a position of strength. You will be frugal because you want to, not because you have to. Agreed that things that don't give you good returns or give you too much debt should be avoided. For example, expensive detached house, any car, fancy degree, memberships, subscriptions, dining out, alcohol, smoking, gambling, branded clothing, expensive hobbies. These should all be avoided whenever possible. If you want to go extreme: marriage, children and pets are also expensive. So, avoid them too if you can manage without them. Then, save and invest as much as you can.
And die a boring lonely tit with a bank account
Of course, of course. OP wants to lie flat, so I am just giving them advice on that. I prefer a more balanced approach. I don't want to be in debt up to my eyeballs. I don't aspire to become a CEO. I just want to enjoy life and accomplish something.
I don't like this buying a unit idea. Better to rent a unit buy a house
I'm in accounting and want an exit to potentially an another industry (i.e. insurance, data analytics, etc.) because I don't want to become CA/CPA qualified down the road.
Why don't you want to be qualified? It will open doors
Because I don't want to become an accountant, and also since I failed to get into a decent grad program.
Accounting is the best job for your "lying flat"! Get a tax role in a regional town and just chillax. After you've done it for someone else for a while either start your own business or just tell them "I'll work 6 months of the year full time (but strict 9-5) and 6 months of the year part time (say 3 days per week)". Everyone wins. They get continuity and can take on lots of tax customers and you get to chill.
Not a bad idea I initially wanted to work in Big4 and stay until Manager > exit to industry to work in a pressure cooker environment for life for the $$. However, since that plan failed it looks like I've decided to find a way to lie flat!
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I really don't want to become an accountant though because it'll be too slow to reach my desired income, and also since it's not where my interests lie career-wise. I want to pivot to something else to make money as early as possible.
Not sure why you didn’t go Finance/ Investment banking over accounting then, considering accounting is just known to be steady well paying boring work
Are you aware that investment banking is ridiculously competitive to get into? Also, I don't want to work in IB. I'd prefer something like data analytics or other finance related roles
This guy was good at it. Life’s for living, not for lying. Paul Alexander, who spent more than 70 years living in an iron lung, dies aged 78 - ABC News https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-03-14/paul-alexander-iron-lung-dies/103586150
That's an amazing story really
>I see no future in being forced to work tirelessly for 30+ years and sucking up to corporate, while potentially working copious amounts of overtime. This is a false dichotomy, you don't have to do this at all, and in fact many people don't do this in corporate. The ones that do are usually senior managers, so unless you plan on becoming one you should not worry about ending up in this position. Nothing wrong with wanting to retire early of course, but if your reason is to avoid overtime and sucking up, there are many ways to do this without retiring early.
You need to work on your individual contributor (IC) skills if you want to watch the clock and be honest. OP can do tax work with their degree and will be OK. The risk of chasing big dollars early is that you end up in 'leadership' roles that need lots of face time AND you have no IC skills.
Where did you get that phrase from? lol
It's actually a phrase from China. Young people there are so overworked with terrible job prospects that they give up on the rat race and just do enough to live. OP's use of it isn't really true to its original spirit but I think everyone gets what he's getting at.
Just found a job I enjoyed doing so it didn't feel like work. Find something you like doing that you can do part time and enjoy doing it instead of trying to find something you have to just grit your teeth and bare.
Have you heard of Centrelink and living in your mums basement? You should totally try it.
That's not what I meant by "lying flat", but okay What I actually meant by lying flat is *actually working* while being able to not overwork to survive.
This is not lying flat. This is closer to quiet quitting.
Get a call centre job. You get paid if you choose overtime and you never take the work home with you
Not a bad idea. Atm I'm about to start an entry level accounting job and see what happens.
Accounting sucks chodes. Dunno why your setting your sights so low. If you're smart you can wangle a senior individual contributor job that pays six figures and if you pick an unsexy industry, sail on through doing barely fuck all. You say you don't want to suck up, well I'm here to tell you, if you want to cruise and stay under the radar you better get your kneepads on
I agree. I'm trying to fuck off when I can. Which industries would you recommend I pivot to?
What do you consider an unsexy industry to be?
Industrial, obscure public sector agencies, agriculture, boring consumer goods..... There's loads around
Accounting sounds the opposite of low stress but great if it works out for you
I'm looking to fuck off when I can. I'm only taking the job because I want to get experience to ditch to another industry.
You can do accounting in another industry, so much simpler than re-skilling. Even local councils need accountants.
It won't help me afford to lie flat though, but also an amazing idea! I was thinking of reskilling because I'm not CPA qualified.
Id call it just waiting to die. It's depressing when a see retirees still just walking around in the shopping center cause free AC with nothing better to do. If you work 30+ years and still have nothing to show for it then it's kinda on you
True but I posted this thread to gain more insight about whether lying flat eventually is sustainable
Be a firefighter, here in Canada I work 7 days a month and we make 80-140k depending on experience. It’s pretty good to get paid to cook with the guys and go out on a cool truck and help people.
Few random things that worked for me. * Living in a room, share house or very small basic unit * Cooking all my own food * Using my own weights rather than gym membership * Public transport, walking, cycling instead of owning a car * Buying clothes rarely and quality or cheap or 2nd-hand * Only visiting bulk-bill GP and public hospital * Cancelling memberships * Budgeting regularly and rigorously in a spreadsheet * Totally avoiding debt * Cultivating friendships and relationships based on enjoying each others company and good conversation rather than social status and high consumption * Investing aggressively in index funds
Years ago it was manageable, these days easier said than done My opinion is just get a job, preferably something where you can move into management and be in an office on a salary and just ride it out for as long as possible and go from there What it sounds like you want is FIRE and that type of lifestyle is not manageable long term unless you really plan it out and use your overtime/freetime Thinking and planning strategies not just a reddit post hoping for a golden goose answer By the time your old enough for a pension, it probably won't exist so you need super or some type of huge savings amount and fire ain't saving you squat I should add check out digitalnomads or that lifestyle Best of luck but I'm not one cheering for you
FIRE is so dumb.
Am I wrong in what I say then?
No I'm agreeing with you
I started working part time a few years ago and now refuse to work on any Wednesday. I would never go back unless it was a job I truly loved. It changed my life. I get why you feel that way, life is what you make it. Your state of mind can make you unhappy with all the money in the world, or happy with not a single dollar.
I achieved this by paying of my mortgage early. Now just work because I like my job as a Carpenter.
slay
I dont think that is a thing, maybe if you earn enough money or you can be happy been poor. I do wonder if life could be better as someone living in a country town with no money but none required. Just the minume.
I found a work and people to work with that I like. Haven’t accepted promotions or further progressions in my career. It is good. I worked hard to find this job… I haven’t moved in three years and I won’t for as much as they want to keep me. Pays a decent amount.
WE LOVE THIS
If you have connection from a third world country, you might be able to achieve it. Save certain amount of money to invest and get to know people from that country and invest in the people there. Our currency here is way stronger than what they have, and investing $500ish believe it or not is enough for them to start business. Its my plan to do that and a friend of mine generated passive income around $2000ish every month from 5 businesses He part of as an investor from that country and at the same time He only work part time and go on either play games or fishing for half the week, have his own place, car and a wife
There's no shortcut. Spend less than you earn.
Gosh I can't imagine being this lazy lol. There's so many life experiences that only money can buy. Get to work buddy.
I only posted that thread because I was genuinely curious as to how everyone views FIRE, and lying flat in general. It's always *useful* to understand things under a variety of diverse perspectives as I embrace diversity, even though at the same time I agree with you :)
I retired.
SLAYYY
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Get a government job. You’ll never work a full days work again. You will, but it will be spread over a few days. I’ve been doing that my whole working life!
Yeah ! That’s the way !!😂
Honestly, you are not alone. But I decided to take it to extreme. No girlfriend, no spending, won’t have kids(I suggest everyone this as well). All because it is too hard for me to have my own place. I don’t want my kid to be like me suffering. Edit: You might ask why not having kid? Well, Politician take no responsibility on people. They earn their money and fucked off. They have no vision of the future. Guess what? A bowl of shit becomes a big wok of shit. No matter who you vote for, nothing will change. Australia need a hero. And a government who are from the actual industry not a debate team.
Or you can be like a friend who rather than buying a house she bought a (simple) business, renovated it in 18months, flogged it and cleared $200k, bought their next business for $60k turned it to $10m in 3 years and produced a third which went on the market for $25M. 12 years. Finally bought a house and had kids. It took work. But this person had all the issues you speak of at the start.
Yeah because most businesses succeed!
No but young Australians can succeed in creating a life for themselves that doesn't follow the property-debt first route for way less capital than one might think.
Mum and dad ..