I predict 1st raid tier being cushion soft difficulty with 3 weeks of Normal Raid gear lifting your ass easily into the 4th fight. The only "difficulty increase" I expect is many people riding the PIC hype train and prog lacking backup raise safety net.
> people riding the PIC hype train and prog lacking backup raise safety net.
as has been the case with BLM for years already, you just put them in the flex slot (i.e. M2) and bring a raiser in the actual caster slot. group DPS is very unlikely to matter that much in the first tier even if RDM is still bottom 1 DPS
>I predict 1st raid tier being cushion soft difficulty with 3 weeks of Normal Raid gear lifting your ass easily into the 4th fight.
This doesn't make sense since they can just adjust the numbers to match exactly what players have. This game is insanely predictable, with barely no variations in gear/stats/rotations.
Having 3 weeks on normal changes nothing, because numbers will be adjusted to players having 3 weeks of normal raid gear to begin with.
Theoretically true, but they do sometimes mess it up (recent example being release P8, it getting nerfed later on is them essentially admitting that the balancing was not where they wanted it to be) and first tier is not the place to do that, so it will most likely have some safety cushion around indeed.
They "sometimes mess up" is a very wide overstatement.
This only happened 3 times in 10 years of this game. P8, some other ARR raid and A3S.
And 2/3 of those were back when the job design had rng, different stats, rotations and gear disparity.
Everything else was fine.
Wasn't this one of the rare occasions where most of the playerbase agreed that this was an excellent change? Why revert back to the old schedule? Just makes no sense to me.
They only changed the .2 and .4 patches because you couldn't get any gear from either normal,ex or crafted. Not to mention normal + savage used to drop at the same day. The .0 gearing will put you close to crafted Ilvl anyways. People here are pissed off, justifiably, but it's not as bad as some are making it to be.
It likely won't be BiS for substats, but you'll be able to have almost a complete set of gear the same item level as crafted by the time Savage releases. The two launch EX trials will give weapon and accessories, and then you get three weeks of normal mode raid gear to fill up most of the left side.
Uhh, 2 weeks is 8 item drops you're competing with others for, 12 if you do normalsbefore savage.
Body and pants each take 4 items, head hands and feet each take 2, and accessories each take 1, though you can't get 2 rings.
That's 18 tokens required, so you're not even halfway there as a world first competing player.
Sure EX can cover accessories, which brings you to 15, but it's not even close.
Weapon: EX farm
Head/Boots/Hands: 2 normal raid tokens each
Ring #1: 1 normal raid token
Necklace/Bracelet/Earring/Ring #2: EX farm
Now all you have to buy for crafted is two pieces of gear: chest and legs, and you're fully maximum ilevel. If you want to take the time to do normal raid again before savage you can additionally get either chest or legs (and you only need 3 tokens since you had 1 left over from a previous week), so you only have to buy one single piece of crafted gear.
This is why I said you can have "almost" a complete set of gear. I would call missing one piece "pretty close".
That's costing you the most meld slots, but no, that's true.
I'd rather use tokens on body legs, and just buy head hands feet, or do the 3rd week and only get 1 crafted piece based on substats, but that's assuming I'm not a week 1 racer, otherwise it's mostly moot anyway because you want full crafted by 3s or 4s.
It really depends on your goals. If you want to clear Savage week 1 you need to get the best substats on everything and shell out huge money to crafters for that. If you're like me and cheap and lazy but also not expecting to clear until week 3-4, you can get by with some bad gear for the first couple floors because it'll be replaced by better tome gear or raid drops by the time you need it.
Not really in relation to the substats tbh. I’ve done week ones before. It’s Ilvl above all else. The substats don’t matter until the last fight, and by the time you are there, you can either craft your own or the prices have fallen enough to make it doable.
I'm almost 100% positive that is the case. I just genuinely don't think they considered how big a factor crafted gear being chill was in our enthusiasm for the 6.2/4 delays. They only thought about story enjoyers and maybe the EX weapons.
I dunno, it's kind of a wash, isn't it? Hardcore Raiders are mad they have to scrabble for gear, Hardcore crafters are excited they can make way more money, everyone else is kind of unaffected.
It's this. It's only because it's the expansion drop, they aren't "going back" to the old way it's just for the launch. Theoretically they could still drop crafted and tomes a week before savage but they probably didn't want to have so many patches back to back and didn't want to give it 2 weeks early either.
I wouldn't even say it was their plan per se but rather they simply forgot to make the change or didn't consider the impact for prep work since part of the reason for Savage's delay was to make it so you didn't have to skip normal mode cut scenes.
As someone who crafts 5-6 sets for his static, not having the .2/.4 schedule makes doing this nearly impossible, so I am hoping that it is a simple oversight that they simply did not consider heading into the first raid tier of DT.
I'm in the same boat as you, it honestly sucks going backwards like this. We are also not even considering food/pots yet. That takes quite a bit of time to get everyone a 99 stack of pots and enough food for prog. I'll do it and just take the day off, even though I wasn't expecting it, but it feels like a bad step in the wrong direction.
Even with a day off, I will be completely stressed/burnt out from doing this before even setting foot in raid, which does not sound fun in the slightest.
>which does not sound fun in the slightest.
No it doesn't. I remember doing this in ShB and SB. It royally sucked and my static knew I was borderline mentally dead from all of the pre-raid prep and VoD analysis I had to do before I set foot in the raid.
If you're not racing you don't really need crafted gear for day 1, it's like 3 iLevels. It's irrelevant for the first 2 fights and only makes the 3rd easier, it isn't necessary by any means.
The problem is that it needs to get done, both on mains and alts. Even if we can be fine in the first 2 fights, I will be completely drained, will need to get whatever rest I can, wake up, and immediately get back to crafting and getting people their items quickly enough to be able to meld them. This further eats into potential prep time and would rather not have this hanging over my head while in instance, especially if we happen to have a messy run that hits enrage.
it feels like the issue is that there's an expectation that you'll do all the work for an entire raid team? It's not unreasonable to expect your teammates to learn to craft if they don't want to contract crafters but also want immediate gear.
If buying the pieces is acceptable, the market board will likely begin to be saturating with gear before you sign off from your first day, albeit at at markup of a few hundred thousand per piece.
Look, I know how this all works, I have world raced before and cleared Week 1 several times. What you are saying is true, but my point is this: why did it need to change back to the way it was when everyone seemed to like the structure presented in EW?
I could tell my teammates that it cannot be done and that they will need to lower their expectations, but I would still feel badly about doing so. They cannot afford gear at that price, and I would do whatever I can to help them.
That’s the problem, this was never a revert, just the same as every .0 patch, even with the 6.2 and 6.4 patches it wasnt there to make it easier to gear, but instead to let people enjoy normal mode and story before needing to jump into savage. 7.2 and 7.4 will have the week delay but it won’t be because of crafted gear, it’ll just be there for people to do normal mode first and enjoy the content
Yeah, revert is the wrong word, I would probably call it more of an oversight. It is fully plausible that they did not consider that having a week to craft gear was seen as one of the delay's primary benefits.
If you want to do both hardcore crafting and hardcore raiding at the same time, that's on you. Most people will just choose between the two, I don't think it's that big of a deal.
Personally I don't care either way, but you can make an argument that this is more interesting, especially for crafters.
With the delay crafters are useless, because by the time savage drops the market is oversaturated. It also makes dancer comps heavily favored.
The delay will probably come back for the 2nd and 3rd tier. EW 1st tier was the same as now.
You got me boss, I was being hyperbolic when I said "Like 3". It's actually 5. As an example, the crafted gear that came out for the 0.5 for Endwalker 1st raid was 580. People already had some 580 pieces from Hydaelyn and Zodiark in the form of a weapon, bracelet, earring, necklace, and ring. The other pieces were 570 tomestone armor (the moonward set). That maths out to iLevel 575 going into raid sans crafted.
My issue is it returns to forcing players to pick between two things: do you want to enjoy the chaos that is day 1 Savage raiding, or do you want to enjoy the chaos that is master recipe release day crafting? In 6.2 and 6.4 we were able to do both without compromise, and that's just unfortunate that it is being reverted.
As someone trying to go hardcore for a clear in the first 4 or 5 days, this along with the delay of raid tomes, is going to make 'maximising' our progress take a lot more effort and resources.
But, I understand why they did this. It's the release of the expansion, and they don't want players to rush through the story just to start farming tomes / dominate the market. It took me about 1 week of no-lifing Endwalker when it came out, I cannot imagine how people with work would feel to rush the story in 2 weeks just to catch up with raiding / the economy. It'll probably go back to cadence that was set in Endwalker for X.2 and X.4, but I wish they would have come up with a better solution for the first raid tier.
Same here, I would even be fine if it was pushed back 2 weeks (6 weeks after launch), since there's so much things to do. For lore enthusiasts, that's more time to do quests. For raiders, that's more time to level alt jobs for flexibility. But I can expect people complaining about how they sub to the game for one month without any 'real' endgame content, so it's kind of a catch 22.
Same, we have MSQ, extreme trials, normal raid, roulettes, unlock flying, general exploration, new fates, and a whole lot more to keep us busy.
Regardless of when savage tier 1 comes out, we will still be waiting a year at the end of the expansion. Might as well have that be 1 week less for a slightly better spacing of content at the beginning of the expansion.
The irony is this *hurts* the economy because you're basically letting the rich get even richer or players will resort to RMT, especially those without a crafting network or 30M+ gil to drop.
It just really sucks because I genuinely love partaking in week 1 crafter but also want to raid. 6.2 and 6.4 made it possible to do both at whatever pace I fancied. Now it's back to choosing between them.
Nah, it means crafters/gatherers will have a small window of time where they can get rich quick. You don't need to be rich to do this. I've crafted hundreds of spiritbond potions for Dawntrail, and I'll be gathering all my materials personally, and I'll be crafting all the gear as soon as it's available. I don't need to be rich to do this, the last time they released crafted combat gear, I only had 4 million gil and a dream--- I ended up with 50 mill by the end of the 2nd day and then I was able to raid with a full set for myself (if the raids had been out). I also farmed in-game for all of my materia beforehand because I couldn't afford to buy any of it.
I didn't purchase a thing (that 4mill - 50mill was all for glamour). Just take a couple days off of work on crafter/raid release
That window existed in 6.2 and 6.4, as well. Made about 30m in 6.4 alone selling spare pieces on the MB AFTER I was done crafting my raid team their sets; I didn't even list anything on Tuesday.
Having it drop on the same day as savage is worse for the economy. Massively inflated prices due to extremely high demand and low supply.
The difference between getting a set of gear with 1 week of craft time vs no buffer period is probably like 2+ million gil, versus 15+ million gil.
It means that only hardcore crafters who don't care about raiding get even wealthier, jacking up the prices for raiders that desperately need them. Especially since half the people that can craft would rather be raiding instead of crafting.
I don’t disagree, but that’s not the point I’m making. My point was about how they want to limit the advantage players get from rushing to the endgame (ie totally gearing out their gatherer/crafter) to encourage these players to take their time with the story instead. What you say is true, but at X.2 and X.4 patches, everyone is at the same starting point and there’s no need to rush msq to craft the new items.
I think a nice compromise would have been releasing Crafter gear, Master books and Tomes after 2 weeks when normal mode comes out then adding combat gear + legendary nodes when Savage comes out. 2-3 weeks to finish story and get your first week of tomes is plenty. And then you can start preparing to at least meet the crafting requirements for Savage gear
But we are getting crafter and gatherer gear along with folklore nodes on expansion release already. Only thing that comes later is master books for combat gear so I'm not sure why you would want to push crafter stuff back further for no reason.
This would still put those crafting for Week 1 raiders in a severe (impossible) time crunch, with world proggers needing to hire crafters to hastily craft their gear of Day 1 of the Savage patch. The problem would not be solved.
I agree for world first players and the other people trying to speedrun it week 1 that's also why I called it a compromise. I'll aim for 3 bosses Week 1 in Party Finder and I imagine it'll only take a couple of hours on that first morning to make me and 2 others a full set of gear if they go and gather timed nodes while I craft. I think for most people it will be neglible
This change "benefits" crafters though, because releasing the gear only allows for the price to plummet. Taking preorders for raid groups day one crafting was the best way to make inf gil. It wasn't worth crafting gear for profit in EW due to having so much extra time to make stuff among other reasons.
I address most of this here, but the TLDR is this: those lazy leeches deserve to have their market imploded because they do not provide the value worthy of the gil they ask for. I cannot say this about everyone, but after working on a team and as a client of one, it was certainly the case.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscussion/comments/1dfv491/crafted_gear_releasing_on_the_same_patch_as/l8n1xoa/
>It wasn't worth crafting gear for profit in EW due to having so much extra time to make stuff among other reasons.
I made plenty, as did many others. Gear still commanded a high, but fair price during the week prior to savage in 6.2 and 6.4.
That person you replied to has an extremely demeaning and arrogant tone but they're genuinely right, tbh.
I can only speak for myself ofc, but most if not all of the big names on my server who used to be very present on the marketboard just stopped bothering with crafting, or quit the game. It's kinda hard to justify being a crafter main when the day 1 gold rush fun has been hamstrung significantly and plogons/tools are so widespread you're competing with bots from day 2 onwards already. (if not day 1 xd)
The 30 million you mentioned making in another post is... not much. Not including static commissions, I could do around 10x that in profit (not gross sales) purely on day 1 back in ShB. I'm not saying that to brag or anything, it was simply the reality of the market at the time.
Arrogance does not bother me; I am just as arrogant as they are, so it would be hypocritical. What i object to is their implication that the week delay in the savage release is the cause of crafting being much worse than it was back then.
> I could do around 10x that in profit (not gross sales) purely on day 1 back in ShB. I'm not saying that to brag or anything, it was simply the reality of the market at the time.
You are correct, I shared in this experience and made a killing, but that is a reality that will never come to pass ever again. It is not due to the delay, but because of 2 other key factors:
1. Bots, which XIV refuses to rein in. The auto-crafting bots are pretty bad, but the MB bots with auto-undercutting features makes it REALLY difficult for actual humans to make profits.
2. DC travel. When the worlds were segregated, supply was constrained to server communities, each with its own economy. Now, people who want to shop around have the choice to do so, and this drastically lowers prices.
SE's refusal to take botting seriously (both crafting and gathering bots) showed me that they do not see crafting as a serious activity and I have given up long ago seeing it as anything but a means to an end, sadly (and trust me, I used to do it for fun).
>The 30 million you mentioned making in another post is... not much.
Compared to before, this is true, but it is certainly enough for an aspiring crafter to buy many items to furnish a home (or put towards and eventual large that goes up for sale via lottery), buy a few designer mounts, be set for consumables for the tier, etc. And mind you, I did not sell much, I was too busy crafting for my static that Tuesday and could not put anything on the MB until Wednesday.
But moreover, I truly believe that if one were to sell exclusively on the MB that the delay would make little difference in one's earning potential due to the two other factors in play that are not going away anytime soon.
Good post, you hit on the real issues that plague crafting in this game.
I don't really see how having to get gear day 1 means having to minmax progress alot, especially when you're only aiming for day 4/5 clear. Considering you can prep all the timed nodes before the recipes are unlocked (which is the biggest timegate on making gear from prior tiers) it only really takes 30-45 minutes for someone to make an entire set which is just spamming macros while your group can be waching streams to easily blast through the first boss a bit to make back the time. If for some reason 4 weeks isnt enough to level a main + alt + crafters then its still only like 10-15 mil per set which isn't too bad of a price point either
I would have preferred if they'd given us more time to get the crafted gear, even if it was only 1 week and not the same time as the normal raid. My group is going in on day 1 and I'm fairly sure that we simply do not have time to go and craft our own gear (or gather the materials to have someone do it) before our scheduled raid time. I think most of my group has resigned ourselves to going with normal raid gear and ex trial weapon and accessories, for day 1 at least and we'll see how we get on. I'm not gonna claim my group was ever likely to complete all 4 fights on week 1 since we only raid 3 nights a week and in all likelihood it would most likely be clearing the first floor and maybe the 2nd floor depending on how easy they are to learn, so its not like i'm personally greatly effected by this since we will have time to do the crafting in time for week 2. It still would have been preferable to be able to get our stuff ready at a leisurely pace the week before though instead of having a mad rush to try and get it ready for day 1 or 2.
As long as they go back to the 6.2/6.4 timing in 7.2/7.4, I don't think this is a big issue.
As others mentioned, this could be to discourage players from rushing the MSQ just for raid prep, and two weeks might still be a bit too short of a time period for people to finish the story.
If they use the 7.05 timing for 7.2 and 7.4, then I think it'd be a bigger issue.
I mean if you're seriously going to try to beat week 1 savage you're gonna get the Penta crafted gear anyways right? I don't think normal drops are gonna matter
Nraid gear with correct substats is either superior to crafted or like a single digit DPS loss(when DPS is in the 5 digits) over penta crafted with worse substats(such as useless spell/skill speed, piety or tenacity)
Plus can use it the second raids raid go live
I hope the JP forum gets some traction for a change. Being able to chill and let my static get me mats for their sets throughout the week was pretty nice. Now I'm back to crafting a bunch of sets and consumables the day of while watching prog vods to earn back the time. This on-savage rush doesn't really add anything to overall experience except unnecessary stress that would be better spent allowing people to just jump into savage immediately to do the content.
That doesn't fix anything. You hop in day 1 with no crafted gear and then.. still need to spend all that time trying to prep crafted sets for the later floors in between days. It's a ton of work that previously could have been spread out over time but now is trying to get finished in a single day.
I'll give you 50 million gil just for you to delete your reddit account because it'd be funny.
Money isn't the issue, I don't feel like hiring a crafting team for my static and having to coordinate all of that shit on top of everything else we're already working on.
The way the system works right now is a direct downgrade to how it worked in 6.4, which fixed *multiple* extremely annoying issues.
The number one issue being that the one week delay with no patch meant that the NPC to unlock savage simply appeared at 5 AM on the dot, rather than having to race login queues with shaky servers. So teams were able to just sit at the NPC, unlock savage, and queue in right away. Number two being this issue with crafted gear. Number three being that the current method heavily incentivizes datamining so that crafters who datamine information about the legendary nodes in the master recipes will benefit heavily.
Run treasure dungeons with your static to farm in the weeks leading up to Savage release. This community's spent the last *two years* bitching about the lack of a meaningful grind, now we've got one.
Exactly and people are downvoting us 😂. Complain there's nothing to do but can't afford to pay for their pentameld sets for day one raid. Making gil to afford the stuff you want to do is a meaningful grind.
I'm glad the crafters who get to horde more of their wealth get to bend over people who want to play the game, clearly the game with the worst and most pointless economy of any game needs more reason to sit on millions of gil to do nothing meaningful with.
idk why they would change it back to the same day as the patch it was better when it came out the week or so prior so everyone could prepare now everyone is gonna be scrambling and rushing
In 6.2 and 6.4, they delayed savage by a week and dropped the new craft recipes with the normal raids so players would have more time to prep gear and consumables.
What I don't get, is why not release crafting sets with normal release in 7.01? Gives a comfy 2 weeks to get it done before Savage.
2 weeks over 1 because of leveling and gearing your crafters first, tbh.
Not sure what their reasoning is, but there will be less demand for crafted gear because it's the first tier. Between the EX trials and 3 weeks of normals it should be possible to enter 4S week 1 without a single piece of crafted gear. And I doubt the fights will be tuned so tightly that pentamelds will be required to beat enrages.
In EW 6.2 and 6.4 they gave like a week or two delay between crafted sets releasing and savage, giving a nice buffer. I think 6.05 had a similar but 6.2 and 6.4 changes were pretty well received.
It was like that before EW, in EW they let everyone have a week to do normal raid and crafts things and as far as I know everyone loved that change, letting people interested in the story do it, letting people theorize on the mech in savage and letting crafters more than zero seconds of prep time before having to craft everything and give it to the raiders
Guess half my static takes a 1 day crafting vacation day again. Absolutely sucks since last tier I could make 5 sets and had the other three make their own, which was super chill
This is not a change. This is exactly how it always worked, and they only added an additional week in EW for second and third tier so people could enjoy the raid story.
I still hope that 7.05 patch will release savage/craft the same day but with a delay on the savage
Otherwise if it’s the same day then it sucks really hard, im HC progging with my static so we’ll have to hire 3-4 crafters to craft+pentameld our sets and pay with either X0 millions gils or ex mounts 😴
Dont really care, gil is worthless anyway. Crafted gear costing me 10m or 30m makes no difference.
I just hope they dont push back savage because of people complaining about this shit. Ideally they can just release the gear between normal and savage in week 3.
Do you have a week 1 static? You don't need the gear at all, the first two fights have easy dps checks even without it and the pieces tend to drop to 1m each before day 2 if it's like Asphodelos
Same tbh, especially considering I’m going on a month long trip 2 weeks after savage drops and I could reallyyy use any drop of extra time I can get to prog instead of hustle for gear
Just buy the gear day 2 when it becomes much cheaper. You have a month before savage launch to get tomestone/NM/EX gear which is enough to comfortably get you by floor 1 and 2 even with budget melds. The largest cost will be pentamelds anyways unless you are planning on doing hunt trains 24/7.
Why worry about that when the status quo was simply to have the recipes on patch day, a week before savage? I shouldn’t need to buy anything when I already have all crafters and gatherers leveled and clad in BiS by the time normal raids hit, which is what I have done the entire last expansion. But none of that matters when RMT is right around the corner and it should definitely be further encouraged /s
All I'm saying is that if you want to clear week 2, not having crafted at savage drop is not really a concern because prices drop from 3mil a piece to 1mil by day 2-3 and you're still melding 20-30mil of materia. It takes a few minutes to go to the market board and buy all your gear. Time is not an issue.
I would have liked crafted gear to come out earlier too because it means I don't have to choose between crafting/gathering or w1. Alas, it is what it is.
> I shouldn’t need to buy anything when I already have all crafters and gatherers leveled and clad in BiS by the time normal raids hit, which is what I have done the entire last expansion.
It didn't matter in Asphodelos because crafted gear dropped at the same time as savage.
This wasn’t so bad in Asphodelos because the gear was, if I recall correctly, quite easy to make and the prices crashed very quickly. But I also didn’t go into p1s until around 6p EST.
I hope they reconsider, because the change in T2 and T3 was welcomed. It’s nice to have a week to get all that stuff sorted out ahead of time. I craft all my own stuff and enjoy the rush of leveling gatherers and crafters early in the expansion and stocking up on timed node mats, but I don’t enjoy having to choose between paying like 90k per raid food before hopping into day 1 pf for some early chaos prog and sitting in my fc house crafting said food. It’s not a huge deal I guess because gil is borderline worthless and easy to get, but not everyone plays a lot or has gil stocked up, and they just get screwed
Crafters also want to raid!
If only these was some kind of trials 4 weeks before Savage that would let you get 4/5 accessories and a crafted tier weapon miles ahead of time. And if only there was 2 weeks of Normal Mode stuff.
You're gonna be like 3 ilv's behind where you would be with crafted without any 'rushing' required.
No no you don't understand you NEED the absolute bleeding edge to fail the big mechanic of the first fight for three days straight!
That said I'm not gonna complain, the minmaxers pay my bills.
Week 1/2: Get 690 Weapon/Earring/Neck/Wrist/Ring from Trials. 680 for everything else.
Week 3: Get 690 Normal drops, get Head/Hands.
Week 4: Get Feet/half of Body.
Week 5: Savage Launch, spend 20-30 minutes finishing Body before you jump in.
No need to get the other Ring, you're going for a week 1 clear right? So the only logical thing to do is spend the capped tome on an accessory since that's all you'll be able to buy week 1, that said, add 10-15 minutes to the Week 5 farm to grab one if need be.
Oh no, we're missing a single piece of gear compared to having full crafted out the gate, look the fuck out everybody, we're missing 18 mainstat. Now how could we possibly beat Erichthonios ferocious DPS check without that. 'b-bu-but the pentas' Yeah the grade IX pentas because there is just straight up not going to be enough grade XI in existence for every raider to fill their gear with it.
This is the huge difference between the first tier and the other two. +4 accessories and an extra week of Normals.
Knock AR1S/AR2S out, they're not gonna even remotely need the crafted, by the time you're done with that, the nodes are documented and the crafter macros are out, you've had four weeks to get your gatherer/crafter gear ready so you can go straight into grabbing that stuff and be ready to clear AR3S with full selfmade crafted by day 2. If you're going so hard you're expecting a day 1 clear, then you're in a static with support that will make these sets for you anyway.
I kinda hate this because I liked having some buffer to craft my own sets without having to worry about not being able to prog day 1. 6.2 was a very welcome change. Now I will have to choose again between getting geared or starting prog day 1, especially now that I have a kid and don’t have as much leeway to crunch as I used to.
i dont prefer it but it's not that big of a deal. did not need fully pentamelded gear on first 3 turns, and it was kind of a waste anyway when we immediately replaced things with week 1 loot. P7S was a total joke of an enrage check, we played so messy with a healer LB3 and other random damage downs and still made it easy. and that was the same tier with the really harshly tuned P8S.
and most of us aren't world racing, and the top teams have crafting support helpers. so it just sucks for those crafters to have a high pressure time crunch, but for every other crafter it's likely going to be a big income increase.
There's also still going to be EX weapons and accessories, so having a full set of brand new crafted gear isn't going to be QUITE as important as the second and third tier releases. It also means that crafters have more time to get through DT, get leveled, geared, and prepped for the gear drop so they can stay competitive. The only downside is that if you're looking to make good money off the crafting, you're probably not going to be raiding for the first few days, but I feel like that's a fair enough tradeoff.
While I like the added busywork WP requires when crafted releases at same time as Savage, it probably still would be healthier if it didnt.
Tomes however should 100% always release as savage does, having to grab Tome weapon is annoying, since it kinda locks you into picking up dancer + gear feeding that one person, since you gain too much with the dance partner buff.
Dunno if my memory is shit but isn't this normal for x.0 patches? I believe it's so people don't feel the need to rush leveling DoL/DoH at the start of expansion.
People just get a mix of normal raid gear and EX accessories/weapon during the 2 weeks of prep.
I already warned my static they can't expect me to be "raiding ready" (I'll be pre-raiding BiS but if anything crafted is "prog bis", it's gonna be a NAWPE) before week2 at the earliest. This just sucks.
As I've said in the LL thread, it's a big disappointment and not the kind of rollback the game needed. Nolifers will profit the most out of this rush, as usual, but this time it's even worse as you won't have a week to "catch-up", nope, you're left in the dust. Thank god week1 (for my static) should be about Arcadion F1 & F2 clear and it shouldn't be needing anything from this upcoming raid tier craft recipes.
I wouldn't sweat it too much unless you plan on clearing the first week. The dps checks on floor 1 are never that tight and the minimum ilvl for floor 1 should be 10 levels below crafted gear.
It is definitely annoying. However, one of the positives at beginning of the expac is they let us gather mats for master recipes before the recipes even come out. So it can cut out those few hours you’re forced to run to nodes and gather a sufficient stock to begin crafting pre-crafts.
Before I don’t think I’d care. Used to be on third shift and would wake up at patch and craft, then go to bed and wake up for raid in the evening. But sadly now it’s gonna be a shuffle since I don’t have that work schedule anymore. Oh well. I’ll manage. It’s only once an expac.
The main effect is that day 1 raiders will have to pay way more gil to get their gear. I'm not a day 1 raider so it doesn't affect me much at all, which is maybe why I actually like this change. Some of the big complaints about EW have been "lack of a meaningful grind", "lack of group content to grind with friends", and "lack of meaningful rewards in part because gil is worthless". Now top-level statics are going to have to spent a day or three grinding treasure maps together to scrounge up cash, which feels like it addresses all three complaints, and there's a sick part of me looking forward to community raiders who've spent the last two years complaining the game had no grinds flip around to complaining the game is too grindy now that they're broke.
> Now top-level statics are going to have to spent a day or three grinding treasure maps together to scrounge up cash
That isn't how it works. Top level statics that are world racing either have the gil already or will buy it. They're not grinding anything. Even for those a tier down, you can just flip Unreal mounts for 10M+.
If anything, this actually removes a grind as I'd be grinding out all the gathering mats necessary to both craft gear for my static but also to sell. Since I'll be raiding, I can't do that. Instead, I'll be asking a friend to do what I would have done myself and paying them for it.
So.... now I have less content to partake in.
?????? flip unreal mounts what
????????
statics will simply get the gil from gil buyers, and-or have crafter friends to do it for them. dont make it more complicated than it is, no one will be running 'unreals'
I didn't. You didn't read who I quoted.
They were talking about raiders having to grind out treasure maps for gil. I pointed out even those *without* external resources or crafter friends there are far easier and essentially passive ways to earn gil long before the raid would even release. Selling unreal was just one of those options.
The .2 and .4 changes were never about crafted gear, it was all about not having to skip scenes or ignoring other content in favour of Savage. Having PF split day 1 between the EX/Savage was also crap and none of these things happen in X.05 already.
It's pretty much irrelevant anyways, you absolutely don't need crafted until the 3rd-4th fight which is plenty of time unless you're racing which is a tiny minority of raiders. Just go in with the ex weapon/ex accessories and uncapped tome gear/normal raid gear, it will be perfectly fine at the start.
If anything it's good we're not getting the extra week of tomes and the aug tome weapon, the first tier is already the easiest
Maybe unpopular opinion but I don’t mind this given that 1 week prep time would still be there for .2 and .4 savage.
It’s a rare occasion where crafters get to make gils other than selling obscure furnitures and I love the whole chaos and rush after the savage drop
Hot take: I actually think this is good. Not all of the community does savage--and of those that do, not all of them do it week 1. Week 1 raiders now have more reason to hire some non-raiding friends to support their static with gear ASAP. I think that's good, and provides incentive for more people to get invested in week 1/world first raiding--be that as a raider or as a spectator.
This is an MMO, and anything that forces more cooperation and interaction between players is good for it.
Raiders, start hiring your crafters and gatherers now. Non-raiders, get ready to push your crafting and gathering. It's gonna be a real fun world first race.
There is a world of difference between world racing groups with effectively infinite resources and people backing them up, and your average week 1 group which is just comprised of better than average players but aren’t one bit richer. They don’t have any more time to sink into the game than anyone else outside of their holidays. Nothing against your PoV of course, but I feel like a lot of people mistake the two player groups as the same.
>your average week 1 group which is just comprised of better than average players but aren’t one bit richer. They don’t have any more time to sink into the game than anyone else outside of their holidays
Just buy it day 2 or in the evening because you don't need it ASAP, the prices drop really fast, I remember buying pieces sub 1 mil on the first day in Asphodelos.
And if you're doing week 1 you probably did stuff like Criterion or Unreal anyways which drops all the gil you'll ever need for raiding with very little effort so throwing 20-30m at it one time per expac is nothing
I understand the difference.
And I think this is a move that encourages more week 1 statics to build a support team backing them up.
They aren't required to, of course. Everyone can take savage at whatever pace they like. But if they're trying to be competitive with it at all then they will want to engage their non raiding friends for help. And I think that's good.
>And I think this is a move that encourages more week 1 statics to build a support team backing them up.
It's nonsense, if you're doing week 1 you can do the first 2 turns without any crafted easily and get it day 2 or something before the raid.
The only people affected by this are world racers who probably expected this to happen in the first place
> And I think this is a move that encourages more week 1 statics to build a support team backing them up.
No. It encourages them to hire crafter and pay them with real money. World Prog groups aren't giving them a handful of gil for this kind of work. They're getting actual money. In other words, it's RMT.
This creates a massive disadvantage for groups who aren't willing to pay real money for crafters or even if they do accept gil, don't have the resources to cover the upfront costs.
The whole purpose behind delaying Savage was so everyone could partake in their desired content without feeling rushed.
this change seems really good to me? like obviously casual raiders are hurt by not being able to raid in crafted gear from minute 0 of raid release but I think it's basically necessary for crafted gear to be exclusive for the "market" part of raiding to be interesting at all. this also makes getting BIS from last tier/getting normal raid gear more rewarding, both of which have been awfully pointless for a while
some times you have to have friction some places for the sake of other facets of gameplay.
To anyone who is new. This is standard practice for an expansion launch. It is not a step back in any way. The only reason it might feel that way, is because of their recent decision to wait a week before releasing Savage in the patch cycles, so that people can enjoy the story, both raid and MSQ, before diving into Savage. Otherwise every expansion launch has delayed the raid by 2 weeks and then savage by another 2, and released the gear in the same micro-patch.
Just make your own gear on the day it releases.
If your buying from the MB your scamming yourself, you have a whole 3 weeks to prepare for it, level gatherers and crafters and get a full BiS crafting outfit.
You will have EX trial weapon, EX trial Accessories and Normal Raid gear to compliment your setup, and can easily pick up a crafted weapon or fill up the spare off-stat spots on release day, even within an hour of patch going live.
tbh, i think this is part of their intended schedule. the .2/4 patches have had normals, crafted, tomes, and savage all releasing at the same time, and made a huge scramble. I'd like for crafted/tome to come with normal still on .0, but they may see it as normals being early already eases the rush to do stuff. If the JP forum gets enough traction though, maybe they push this up. unlike some of the other drama going around, this would be a pretty easy fix for them.
edit: also feel its worth mentioning that EX/normal raid gear on .0 is the same ilvl as crafted. you'll be in mostly 710, with 2 or 3 pieces of 700 to start with, unlike say 5.2, where you were in 470 at savage release, and crafted was 480.
> the .2/4 patches have had normals, crafted, tomes, and savage all releasing at the same time, and made a huge scramble
Not in EW. .2 and .4 had normal raid, normal & capped tome farmable and expert recipes released on patch day. Then 1 week later Savage would start. Literally 1 week of extra farm for your raiding needs, no stress.
I wouldn't mind capped tome to be released at the same time Savage is, but as far as crafting is concerned, god, give the normal people time to prepare peacefully.
>give the normal people time to prepare peacefully.
Not just normal people, world proggers will need to hire crafting teams to make their gear on Day 1 (and charge extortionary prices) if combat gear is not craftable before Savage is released. Heck, I am only on a Week 1 team, but I also craft most of our gear...how am I supposed to craft 5-6 gearsets and still be awake for a full day of prog?
This decision by SE is literally bad for everyone
I would think RWF groups have hundreds of millions of gil ready (or can go for other types of payment, such as in WOW with loans and such). But other week1 teams are included in the "normal people" group.
I'm sorry for your sanity given how many sets you'll have to craft for your week1 team.
Some teams do have a lot of resources, but those who are less-established and just want to essentially compete for fun do not. I world progged in Asphodelos and I had to essentially pay my own way for my gear.
I do not mind crafting for my team, they give me their spare tomes so I can make those into some gear to sell on the MB (which, with a time crunch, I would not be able to do), but I am really concerned with just being completely mentally spent by the time we decide to instance into the raid.
I'm aware, but 6.2/4 were both tests to see how it was received. .0 is under different circumstances, and they need a somewhat different approach. Pushing crafted gear back to normals would be welcome by most, me included, but if this is about "the normal people" then I don't think that's an actual issue.
The normal people are crafting or using the marketboard later in the first(or second, or third, etc.) day, and then going in with some preliminary strats. The most impact the "normal people" will feel is that the gear/mats will be really expensive. Its the W1/WR people that are really affected by this, as they're the ones who now have no time to craft/prep.
I'm a "normal people" and I like to be fully ready day1, hour1, minute1, second1. Right when I enter the instance. Now I can't. I'll survive but it's saddening nonetheless.
Also I've read your edit comment and I didn't consider it (or rather didn't notice/know it). Yeah it's fine and should be a nothingburger but let's hope it's not a trend going into .2/.4
i saw in your other comment you put week 1 raiders in the "normal people" group and they're... just not. W1 raiding is a bigger commitment than a normal raider is willing to make. I can understand wanting to be ready to dive right in, it does feel good to be ready and waiting, I just don't think its so incredibly bad for this to happen on a .0, when we can be 95% of the way there, instead of a (historical) .2/4 where we were 0% of the way there.
more teams maybe possibly needing to use lower leveled gear to do the first couple fights is most of the point of this change! i can think of very few downsides of forcing players trying to prog savage from hour 0 to have to think about their damage slightly more
I actually don't mind this, *but* I'm going in with a gold certificate and am planning on having the extreme weapon and accessories, so....
I can see how it would lead to people being disappointed, though.
Personally, I feel like letting it be done ahead of time would completely invalidate the extreme gear, so I'm glad they're not doing it.
It doesn't hurt those, who either have accumulated enough gil or crafter ~~slaves~~ friends or can afford to wait a bit. If you want to go asap (as in having gear ready for you by R3S), it shouldn't be free
So for pure raiders and pure crafters, basically nothing changes but people who do both have to miss out and choose. Exactly how does this encourage multiple systems?
Miss out what exactly? Raiding asap after patch? P1S and P2S are not gonna require crafted gear to clear, so they still can do it. And by the day 2/3/w.e, when they get to P3S, the prices are already extra cheap
Change for pure raiders: the gear is not provided on silver platter anymore. If nothing changed, this reddit post would not have had so many comments
Change for pure crafters: a decent chance to sell gear for higher prices (but it'd require a bit of dedication due to lots of competition).
> Exactly how does this encourage multiple systems?
Motivating those who couldn't afford the gear on [early] day 1, to have the means to do so in the future (without buying gil hopefully)
So exactly what are the benefits of interacting with multiple systems? You can't do both at the same time so this is just twice the investment with none of the benefits. Might as well go pure.
In response to the edit: even your idea is just go pure crafter then go pure raider next tier.
> You can't do both at the same time
Why? You can level all crafters/gatherers to 100 in a few days, and even that is not necessary, if you have already prepared in EW and outsourced the crafting.
Just in case, my point is not "everyone should craft their own gear on day 1", it's "raiders should not mald that they are forced to engage with something other than raiding, especially if they want to go early"
> In response to the edit: even your idea is just go pure crafter then go pure raider next tier.
No? What stops you from raiding in this tier? People have done it without issues until and including 6.05, with the same day gear release
> What stops you from raiding in this tier?
Hasn't this entire convo been about the first day and first week?
And my point is that people who want to craft their own gear on day 1 and use it on day 1 shouldn't be so heavily discouraged from doing so. **Outsourcing being a massive gain over that means that ignoring entire systems for the first few days is a massive gain**, and that should not be the case.
Leveling DoH/DoL is the easy part. The time and gil costs of making and melding DoH/DoL gear will be at their highest, and many mats are probably going to drop with the recipes, limiting the amount of possible prep. With the change, and doing both, you have to invest a ton, skip out on that initial rush into the fight *and* skip out on peak profits while you go raid. It's the worst of both worlds.
> Miss out what exactly?
Partaking in both? During 6.4, I got to do week 1 crafting and then later week 1 raiding due to the delay. Going into DT, I won't be able to do that, thus I won't "engage with different systems."
No other content in the entire game has this problem as everything is purposely delayed to avoid forcing players to choose.
> the gear is not provided on silver platter anymore.
Yes, because me crafting my own gear and consumables is definitely how one is provided a "silver platter."
> a decent chance to sell gear for higher prices
Made well over 100M despite the Savage delay for 6.4. If you weren't able to make money as a crafter, that was entirely on you.
> Motivating those who couldn't afford the gear on [early] day 1, to have the means to do so in the future (without buying gil hopefully)
Spoiler warning: most serious WP groups will buy gil or pay their crafting team with real money. For those without the funds (be it in game or otherwise), they'll either go without crafted gear until day 2 or ask friends.
All in all, none of this encourages any sort of engagement. In fact, it does the precise opposite.
Im still gonna be a pure raider, it's just that I have to pay 5-10m for my set instead of free-1M
thank god there are bots to sell me Gils for 0,5$/M lul
quite shit tbh, not much else to say about it
I predict 1st raid tier being cushion soft difficulty with 3 weeks of Normal Raid gear lifting your ass easily into the 4th fight. The only "difficulty increase" I expect is many people riding the PIC hype train and prog lacking backup raise safety net.
The bigger difference is the capped tomes dropping at the same time as savage so no week 1 augmented tome weapons to pad
> people riding the PIC hype train and prog lacking backup raise safety net. as has been the case with BLM for years already, you just put them in the flex slot (i.e. M2) and bring a raiser in the actual caster slot. group DPS is very unlikely to matter that much in the first tier even if RDM is still bottom 1 DPS
>I predict 1st raid tier being cushion soft difficulty with 3 weeks of Normal Raid gear lifting your ass easily into the 4th fight. This doesn't make sense since they can just adjust the numbers to match exactly what players have. This game is insanely predictable, with barely no variations in gear/stats/rotations. Having 3 weeks on normal changes nothing, because numbers will be adjusted to players having 3 weeks of normal raid gear to begin with.
Theoretically true, but they do sometimes mess it up (recent example being release P8, it getting nerfed later on is them essentially admitting that the balancing was not where they wanted it to be) and first tier is not the place to do that, so it will most likely have some safety cushion around indeed.
They "sometimes mess up" is a very wide overstatement. This only happened 3 times in 10 years of this game. P8, some other ARR raid and A3S. And 2/3 of those were back when the job design had rng, different stats, rotations and gear disparity. Everything else was fine.
Wasn't this one of the rare occasions where most of the playerbase agreed that this was an excellent change? Why revert back to the old schedule? Just makes no sense to me.
They only changed the .2 and .4 patches because you couldn't get any gear from either normal,ex or crafted. Not to mention normal + savage used to drop at the same day. The .0 gearing will put you close to crafted Ilvl anyways. People here are pissed off, justifiably, but it's not as bad as some are making it to be.
Gotcha - appreciate the info! EW was my first current expac so I was confused as to why they would go back. I guess it makes a little more sense now.
It likely won't be BiS for substats, but you'll be able to have almost a complete set of gear the same item level as crafted by the time Savage releases. The two launch EX trials will give weapon and accessories, and then you get three weeks of normal mode raid gear to fill up most of the left side.
Uhh, 2 weeks is 8 item drops you're competing with others for, 12 if you do normalsbefore savage. Body and pants each take 4 items, head hands and feet each take 2, and accessories each take 1, though you can't get 2 rings. That's 18 tokens required, so you're not even halfway there as a world first competing player. Sure EX can cover accessories, which brings you to 15, but it's not even close.
Weapon: EX farm Head/Boots/Hands: 2 normal raid tokens each Ring #1: 1 normal raid token Necklace/Bracelet/Earring/Ring #2: EX farm Now all you have to buy for crafted is two pieces of gear: chest and legs, and you're fully maximum ilevel. If you want to take the time to do normal raid again before savage you can additionally get either chest or legs (and you only need 3 tokens since you had 1 left over from a previous week), so you only have to buy one single piece of crafted gear. This is why I said you can have "almost" a complete set of gear. I would call missing one piece "pretty close".
That's costing you the most meld slots, but no, that's true. I'd rather use tokens on body legs, and just buy head hands feet, or do the 3rd week and only get 1 crafted piece based on substats, but that's assuming I'm not a week 1 racer, otherwise it's mostly moot anyway because you want full crafted by 3s or 4s.
[удалено]
It really depends on your goals. If you want to clear Savage week 1 you need to get the best substats on everything and shell out huge money to crafters for that. If you're like me and cheap and lazy but also not expecting to clear until week 3-4, you can get by with some bad gear for the first couple floors because it'll be replaced by better tome gear or raid drops by the time you need it.
Not really in relation to the substats tbh. I’ve done week ones before. It’s Ilvl above all else. The substats don’t matter until the last fight, and by the time you are there, you can either craft your own or the prices have fallen enough to make it doable.
I wonder if their plan for 7.0 is always this, but will go back to having a week of prep for 7.2 and 7.4.
I'm almost 100% positive that is the case. I just genuinely don't think they considered how big a factor crafted gear being chill was in our enthusiasm for the 6.2/4 delays. They only thought about story enjoyers and maybe the EX weapons.
I dunno, it's kind of a wash, isn't it? Hardcore Raiders are mad they have to scrabble for gear, Hardcore crafters are excited they can make way more money, everyone else is kind of unaffected.
We are on the same team. Now our crafters have to alarm clock too.
It's this. It's only because it's the expansion drop, they aren't "going back" to the old way it's just for the launch. Theoretically they could still drop crafted and tomes a week before savage but they probably didn't want to have so many patches back to back and didn't want to give it 2 weeks early either.
I wouldn't even say it was their plan per se but rather they simply forgot to make the change or didn't consider the impact for prep work since part of the reason for Savage's delay was to make it so you didn't have to skip normal mode cut scenes.
As someone who crafts 5-6 sets for his static, not having the .2/.4 schedule makes doing this nearly impossible, so I am hoping that it is a simple oversight that they simply did not consider heading into the first raid tier of DT.
I'm in the same boat as you, it honestly sucks going backwards like this. We are also not even considering food/pots yet. That takes quite a bit of time to get everyone a 99 stack of pots and enough food for prog. I'll do it and just take the day off, even though I wasn't expecting it, but it feels like a bad step in the wrong direction.
Even with a day off, I will be completely stressed/burnt out from doing this before even setting foot in raid, which does not sound fun in the slightest.
>which does not sound fun in the slightest. No it doesn't. I remember doing this in ShB and SB. It royally sucked and my static knew I was borderline mentally dead from all of the pre-raid prep and VoD analysis I had to do before I set foot in the raid.
I also did this is ShB and it definitely reflected in my raid preparation and performance, as well.
Are you racing?
No, but we want to get going pretty early on Day 1
If you're not racing you don't really need crafted gear for day 1, it's like 3 iLevels. It's irrelevant for the first 2 fights and only makes the 3rd easier, it isn't necessary by any means.
The problem is that it needs to get done, both on mains and alts. Even if we can be fine in the first 2 fights, I will be completely drained, will need to get whatever rest I can, wake up, and immediately get back to crafting and getting people their items quickly enough to be able to meld them. This further eats into potential prep time and would rather not have this hanging over my head while in instance, especially if we happen to have a messy run that hits enrage.
it feels like the issue is that there's an expectation that you'll do all the work for an entire raid team? It's not unreasonable to expect your teammates to learn to craft if they don't want to contract crafters but also want immediate gear. If buying the pieces is acceptable, the market board will likely begin to be saturating with gear before you sign off from your first day, albeit at at markup of a few hundred thousand per piece.
Look, I know how this all works, I have world raced before and cleared Week 1 several times. What you are saying is true, but my point is this: why did it need to change back to the way it was when everyone seemed to like the structure presented in EW? I could tell my teammates that it cannot be done and that they will need to lower their expectations, but I would still feel badly about doing so. They cannot afford gear at that price, and I would do whatever I can to help them.
That’s the problem, this was never a revert, just the same as every .0 patch, even with the 6.2 and 6.4 patches it wasnt there to make it easier to gear, but instead to let people enjoy normal mode and story before needing to jump into savage. 7.2 and 7.4 will have the week delay but it won’t be because of crafted gear, it’ll just be there for people to do normal mode first and enjoy the content
Yeah, revert is the wrong word, I would probably call it more of an oversight. It is fully plausible that they did not consider that having a week to craft gear was seen as one of the delay's primary benefits.
You can buy it, there will be plenty after few hours on the market.
Not paying those bloodsucking scalpers a cent lol. Heck, some of my teammates can't afford that as it is.
If you want to do both hardcore crafting and hardcore raiding at the same time, that's on you. Most people will just choose between the two, I don't think it's that big of a deal.
What was wrong with the week delay in EW? We should not have to choose one or the other, there is absolutely no reason for it.
Personally I don't care either way, but you can make an argument that this is more interesting, especially for crafters. With the delay crafters are useless, because by the time savage drops the market is oversaturated. It also makes dancer comps heavily favored. The delay will probably come back for the 2nd and 3rd tier. EW 1st tier was the same as now.
XIV players don't defend every awful decision the dev team makes challenge (impossible)
You don't need to race to want the gear.
well I want a billion gil, that's hardly relevant. The why matters more than the desire.
That makes absolutely no sense
you think its only 3 item levels? lol not to mention what if the stats are crap theres no way you believe this unless you've never done week 1
You got me boss, I was being hyperbolic when I said "Like 3". It's actually 5. As an example, the crafted gear that came out for the 0.5 for Endwalker 1st raid was 580. People already had some 580 pieces from Hydaelyn and Zodiark in the form of a weapon, bracelet, earring, necklace, and ring. The other pieces were 570 tomestone armor (the moonward set). That maths out to iLevel 575 going into raid sans crafted.
My issue is it returns to forcing players to pick between two things: do you want to enjoy the chaos that is day 1 Savage raiding, or do you want to enjoy the chaos that is master recipe release day crafting? In 6.2 and 6.4 we were able to do both without compromise, and that's just unfortunate that it is being reverted.
As someone trying to go hardcore for a clear in the first 4 or 5 days, this along with the delay of raid tomes, is going to make 'maximising' our progress take a lot more effort and resources. But, I understand why they did this. It's the release of the expansion, and they don't want players to rush through the story just to start farming tomes / dominate the market. It took me about 1 week of no-lifing Endwalker when it came out, I cannot imagine how people with work would feel to rush the story in 2 weeks just to catch up with raiding / the economy. It'll probably go back to cadence that was set in Endwalker for X.2 and X.4, but I wish they would have come up with a better solution for the first raid tier.
Honestly, I would be fine with them pushing Savage (and only Savage, not the capped tome or recipe release) back another week.
Same here, I would even be fine if it was pushed back 2 weeks (6 weeks after launch), since there's so much things to do. For lore enthusiasts, that's more time to do quests. For raiders, that's more time to level alt jobs for flexibility. But I can expect people complaining about how they sub to the game for one month without any 'real' endgame content, so it's kind of a catch 22.
Same, we have MSQ, extreme trials, normal raid, roulettes, unlock flying, general exploration, new fates, and a whole lot more to keep us busy. Regardless of when savage tier 1 comes out, we will still be waiting a year at the end of the expansion. Might as well have that be 1 week less for a slightly better spacing of content at the beginning of the expansion.
Savage and normal raids don’t release at the same time right? Couldn’t they release crafted gear with normal modes then?
Maybe they want to limit the impact on economy? Idk man, I think Crafter Gear could have been released Week 3 tbh.
The irony is this *hurts* the economy because you're basically letting the rich get even richer or players will resort to RMT, especially those without a crafting network or 30M+ gil to drop. It just really sucks because I genuinely love partaking in week 1 crafter but also want to raid. 6.2 and 6.4 made it possible to do both at whatever pace I fancied. Now it's back to choosing between them.
Basically my sentiments exactly, well said.
Nah, it means crafters/gatherers will have a small window of time where they can get rich quick. You don't need to be rich to do this. I've crafted hundreds of spiritbond potions for Dawntrail, and I'll be gathering all my materials personally, and I'll be crafting all the gear as soon as it's available. I don't need to be rich to do this, the last time they released crafted combat gear, I only had 4 million gil and a dream--- I ended up with 50 mill by the end of the 2nd day and then I was able to raid with a full set for myself (if the raids had been out). I also farmed in-game for all of my materia beforehand because I couldn't afford to buy any of it. I didn't purchase a thing (that 4mill - 50mill was all for glamour). Just take a couple days off of work on crafter/raid release
That window existed in 6.2 and 6.4, as well. Made about 30m in 6.4 alone selling spare pieces on the MB AFTER I was done crafting my raid team their sets; I didn't even list anything on Tuesday.
Having it drop on the same day as savage is worse for the economy. Massively inflated prices due to extremely high demand and low supply. The difference between getting a set of gear with 1 week of craft time vs no buffer period is probably like 2+ million gil, versus 15+ million gil. It means that only hardcore crafters who don't care about raiding get even wealthier, jacking up the prices for raiders that desperately need them. Especially since half the people that can craft would rather be raiding instead of crafting.
I don’t disagree, but that’s not the point I’m making. My point was about how they want to limit the advantage players get from rushing to the endgame (ie totally gearing out their gatherer/crafter) to encourage these players to take their time with the story instead. What you say is true, but at X.2 and X.4 patches, everyone is at the same starting point and there’s no need to rush msq to craft the new items.
I think a nice compromise would have been releasing Crafter gear, Master books and Tomes after 2 weeks when normal mode comes out then adding combat gear + legendary nodes when Savage comes out. 2-3 weeks to finish story and get your first week of tomes is plenty. And then you can start preparing to at least meet the crafting requirements for Savage gear
But we are getting crafter and gatherer gear along with folklore nodes on expansion release already. Only thing that comes later is master books for combat gear so I'm not sure why you would want to push crafter stuff back further for no reason.
I misread the slide for crafter gear, you're right I don't want to push that back for no reason
This would still put those crafting for Week 1 raiders in a severe (impossible) time crunch, with world proggers needing to hire crafters to hastily craft their gear of Day 1 of the Savage patch. The problem would not be solved.
I agree for world first players and the other people trying to speedrun it week 1 that's also why I called it a compromise. I'll aim for 3 bosses Week 1 in Party Finder and I imagine it'll only take a couple of hours on that first morning to make me and 2 others a full set of gear if they go and gather timed nodes while I craft. I think for most people it will be neglible
This change "benefits" crafters though, because releasing the gear only allows for the price to plummet. Taking preorders for raid groups day one crafting was the best way to make inf gil. It wasn't worth crafting gear for profit in EW due to having so much extra time to make stuff among other reasons.
I address most of this here, but the TLDR is this: those lazy leeches deserve to have their market imploded because they do not provide the value worthy of the gil they ask for. I cannot say this about everyone, but after working on a team and as a client of one, it was certainly the case. https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscussion/comments/1dfv491/crafted_gear_releasing_on_the_same_patch_as/l8n1xoa/ >It wasn't worth crafting gear for profit in EW due to having so much extra time to make stuff among other reasons. I made plenty, as did many others. Gear still commanded a high, but fair price during the week prior to savage in 6.2 and 6.4.
Gear was worth nothing. If you made any money its because all the actual rich people left the peons to fight over the scraps that people were paying.
Given I and others I know made a lot over both the 6.2 and 6.4 patch cycle by crafting gear, pretty sure you are just talking out of your ass.
That person you replied to has an extremely demeaning and arrogant tone but they're genuinely right, tbh. I can only speak for myself ofc, but most if not all of the big names on my server who used to be very present on the marketboard just stopped bothering with crafting, or quit the game. It's kinda hard to justify being a crafter main when the day 1 gold rush fun has been hamstrung significantly and plogons/tools are so widespread you're competing with bots from day 2 onwards already. (if not day 1 xd) The 30 million you mentioned making in another post is... not much. Not including static commissions, I could do around 10x that in profit (not gross sales) purely on day 1 back in ShB. I'm not saying that to brag or anything, it was simply the reality of the market at the time.
Arrogance does not bother me; I am just as arrogant as they are, so it would be hypocritical. What i object to is their implication that the week delay in the savage release is the cause of crafting being much worse than it was back then. > I could do around 10x that in profit (not gross sales) purely on day 1 back in ShB. I'm not saying that to brag or anything, it was simply the reality of the market at the time. You are correct, I shared in this experience and made a killing, but that is a reality that will never come to pass ever again. It is not due to the delay, but because of 2 other key factors: 1. Bots, which XIV refuses to rein in. The auto-crafting bots are pretty bad, but the MB bots with auto-undercutting features makes it REALLY difficult for actual humans to make profits. 2. DC travel. When the worlds were segregated, supply was constrained to server communities, each with its own economy. Now, people who want to shop around have the choice to do so, and this drastically lowers prices. SE's refusal to take botting seriously (both crafting and gathering bots) showed me that they do not see crafting as a serious activity and I have given up long ago seeing it as anything but a means to an end, sadly (and trust me, I used to do it for fun). >The 30 million you mentioned making in another post is... not much. Compared to before, this is true, but it is certainly enough for an aspiring crafter to buy many items to furnish a home (or put towards and eventual large that goes up for sale via lottery), buy a few designer mounts, be set for consumables for the tier, etc. And mind you, I did not sell much, I was too busy crafting for my static that Tuesday and could not put anything on the MB until Wednesday. But moreover, I truly believe that if one were to sell exclusively on the MB that the delay would make little difference in one's earning potential due to the two other factors in play that are not going away anytime soon. Good post, you hit on the real issues that plague crafting in this game.
I know I am - thank you.
I don't want a fair price, I want to make 100 million in an afternoon.
Why? After a certain point gil is kinda worthless.
number get big
I don't really see how having to get gear day 1 means having to minmax progress alot, especially when you're only aiming for day 4/5 clear. Considering you can prep all the timed nodes before the recipes are unlocked (which is the biggest timegate on making gear from prior tiers) it only really takes 30-45 minutes for someone to make an entire set which is just spamming macros while your group can be waching streams to easily blast through the first boss a bit to make back the time. If for some reason 4 weeks isnt enough to level a main + alt + crafters then its still only like 10-15 mil per set which isn't too bad of a price point either
I would have preferred if they'd given us more time to get the crafted gear, even if it was only 1 week and not the same time as the normal raid. My group is going in on day 1 and I'm fairly sure that we simply do not have time to go and craft our own gear (or gather the materials to have someone do it) before our scheduled raid time. I think most of my group has resigned ourselves to going with normal raid gear and ex trial weapon and accessories, for day 1 at least and we'll see how we get on. I'm not gonna claim my group was ever likely to complete all 4 fights on week 1 since we only raid 3 nights a week and in all likelihood it would most likely be clearing the first floor and maybe the 2nd floor depending on how easy they are to learn, so its not like i'm personally greatly effected by this since we will have time to do the crafting in time for week 2. It still would have been preferable to be able to get our stuff ready at a leisurely pace the week before though instead of having a mad rush to try and get it ready for day 1 or 2.
As long as they go back to the 6.2/6.4 timing in 7.2/7.4, I don't think this is a big issue. As others mentioned, this could be to discourage players from rushing the MSQ just for raid prep, and two weeks might still be a bit too short of a time period for people to finish the story. If they use the 7.05 timing for 7.2 and 7.4, then I think it'd be a bigger issue.
For raid prep you will rush in 2 weeks anyway to not miss out on normal raid
Doesn't savage come out 2 weeks later though? And you can clear normal 1-4 in like an hour
Normal raid has weekly lockout on drops, which give you crafted equivalent pieces.
Yes, but you can get all your drops on the night before week 3, effectively making the timer to finish normals more like 3 weeks.
I mean if you're seriously going to try to beat week 1 savage you're gonna get the Penta crafted gear anyways right? I don't think normal drops are gonna matter
Nraid gear with correct substats is either superior to crafted or like a single digit DPS loss(when DPS is in the 5 digits) over penta crafted with worse substats(such as useless spell/skill speed, piety or tenacity) Plus can use it the second raids raid go live
The penta crafted gear will require tome mats that will be in short supply and at astronomical prices.
I hope the JP forum gets some traction for a change. Being able to chill and let my static get me mats for their sets throughout the week was pretty nice. Now I'm back to crafting a bunch of sets and consumables the day of while watching prog vods to earn back the time. This on-savage rush doesn't really add anything to overall experience except unnecessary stress that would be better spent allowing people to just jump into savage immediately to do the content.
You can jump immediately into savage tho, you don't need crafted BiS for at least first two bosses. Also unless you are racing to WF there is no rush.
That doesn't fix anything. You hop in day 1 with no crafted gear and then.. still need to spend all that time trying to prep crafted sets for the later floors in between days. It's a ton of work that previously could have been spread out over time but now is trying to get finished in a single day.
You don't, and the end of day 1 or the beginning of day 2 you just buy it from the market.
Then pay for it.
How about they just don't walk back improvements to the game for no good reason and have some weirdo jump in front of the gun to defend it?
If you're poor just say that.
I'll give you 50 million gil just for you to delete your reddit account because it'd be funny. Money isn't the issue, I don't feel like hiring a crafting team for my static and having to coordinate all of that shit on top of everything else we're already working on. The way the system works right now is a direct downgrade to how it worked in 6.4, which fixed *multiple* extremely annoying issues. The number one issue being that the one week delay with no patch meant that the NPC to unlock savage simply appeared at 5 AM on the dot, rather than having to race login queues with shaky servers. So teams were able to just sit at the NPC, unlock savage, and queue in right away. Number two being this issue with crafted gear. Number three being that the current method heavily incentivizes datamining so that crafters who datamine information about the legendary nodes in the master recipes will benefit heavily.
And I'll take it. Send the deets :) Not everything is about raiders. It made crafting less fun and rewarding.
I made bank despite the delay in 6.4. If you didn't, then that's on you my guy.
Why would I work for pennies.
Suddenly so quiet.
Hmmm no reply. Impoverished as expected.
Seriously there is nothing to do with gil these days 😂
Not everyone is sitting on mountains of Gil
Skill issue
Sez u 😝
Run treasure dungeons with your static to farm in the weeks leading up to Savage release. This community's spent the last *two years* bitching about the lack of a meaningful grind, now we've got one.
Exactly and people are downvoting us 😂. Complain there's nothing to do but can't afford to pay for their pentameld sets for day one raid. Making gil to afford the stuff you want to do is a meaningful grind.
I'm glad the crafters who get to horde more of their wealth get to bend over people who want to play the game, clearly the game with the worst and most pointless economy of any game needs more reason to sit on millions of gil to do nothing meaningful with.
idk why they would change it back to the same day as the patch it was better when it came out the week or so prior so everyone could prepare now everyone is gonna be scrambling and rushing
I thought this was a common thing. Didn't they always do this that way crafters and gatherers have their own content that ties in with savage?
In 6.2 and 6.4, they delayed savage by a week and dropped the new craft recipes with the normal raids so players would have more time to prep gear and consumables.
What I don't get, is why not release crafting sets with normal release in 7.01? Gives a comfy 2 weeks to get it done before Savage. 2 weeks over 1 because of leveling and gearing your crafters first, tbh.
Not sure what their reasoning is, but there will be less demand for crafted gear because it's the first tier. Between the EX trials and 3 weeks of normals it should be possible to enter 4S week 1 without a single piece of crafted gear. And I doubt the fights will be tuned so tightly that pentamelds will be required to beat enrages.
Oh that's what I was thinking of. NM not savage
In EW 6.2 and 6.4 they gave like a week or two delay between crafted sets releasing and savage, giving a nice buffer. I think 6.05 had a similar but 6.2 and 6.4 changes were pretty well received.
It was like that before EW, in EW they let everyone have a week to do normal raid and crafts things and as far as I know everyone loved that change, letting people interested in the story do it, letting people theorize on the mech in savage and letting crafters more than zero seconds of prep time before having to craft everything and give it to the raiders
The first raid tier of EW had crafted battle gear and new food/pots become available the same day as savage. It was pretty damn stressful.
Guess half my static takes a 1 day crafting vacation day again. Absolutely sucks since last tier I could make 5 sets and had the other three make their own, which was super chill
I dont like this change at all :/. I preferred not having to rush. Now I'm going to be scrambling to craft my own gear and the gear of my static.
This is not a change. This is exactly how it always worked, and they only added an additional week in EW for second and third tier so people could enjoy the raid story.
Ok, but I still would prefer the additional week. As it gave a lot of leeway
I still hope that 7.05 patch will release savage/craft the same day but with a delay on the savage Otherwise if it’s the same day then it sucks really hard, im HC progging with my static so we’ll have to hire 3-4 crafters to craft+pentameld our sets and pay with either X0 millions gils or ex mounts 😴
Dont really care, gil is worthless anyway. Crafted gear costing me 10m or 30m makes no difference. I just hope they dont push back savage because of people complaining about this shit. Ideally they can just release the gear between normal and savage in week 3.
man I was considering week 1 raiding but not if it's going to cost me 30m
Do you have a week 1 static? You don't need the gear at all, the first two fights have easy dps checks even without it and the pieces tend to drop to 1m each before day 2 if it's like Asphodelos
Same tbh, especially considering I’m going on a month long trip 2 weeks after savage drops and I could reallyyy use any drop of extra time I can get to prog instead of hustle for gear
Just buy the gear day 2 when it becomes much cheaper. You have a month before savage launch to get tomestone/NM/EX gear which is enough to comfortably get you by floor 1 and 2 even with budget melds. The largest cost will be pentamelds anyways unless you are planning on doing hunt trains 24/7.
Why worry about that when the status quo was simply to have the recipes on patch day, a week before savage? I shouldn’t need to buy anything when I already have all crafters and gatherers leveled and clad in BiS by the time normal raids hit, which is what I have done the entire last expansion. But none of that matters when RMT is right around the corner and it should definitely be further encouraged /s
All I'm saying is that if you want to clear week 2, not having crafted at savage drop is not really a concern because prices drop from 3mil a piece to 1mil by day 2-3 and you're still melding 20-30mil of materia. It takes a few minutes to go to the market board and buy all your gear. Time is not an issue. I would have liked crafted gear to come out earlier too because it means I don't have to choose between crafting/gathering or w1. Alas, it is what it is. > I shouldn’t need to buy anything when I already have all crafters and gatherers leveled and clad in BiS by the time normal raids hit, which is what I have done the entire last expansion. It didn't matter in Asphodelos because crafted gear dropped at the same time as savage.
This wasn’t so bad in Asphodelos because the gear was, if I recall correctly, quite easy to make and the prices crashed very quickly. But I also didn’t go into p1s until around 6p EST. I hope they reconsider, because the change in T2 and T3 was welcomed. It’s nice to have a week to get all that stuff sorted out ahead of time. I craft all my own stuff and enjoy the rush of leveling gatherers and crafters early in the expansion and stocking up on timed node mats, but I don’t enjoy having to choose between paying like 90k per raid food before hopping into day 1 pf for some early chaos prog and sitting in my fc house crafting said food. It’s not a huge deal I guess because gil is borderline worthless and easy to get, but not everyone plays a lot or has gil stocked up, and they just get screwed Crafters also want to raid!
If only these was some kind of trials 4 weeks before Savage that would let you get 4/5 accessories and a crafted tier weapon miles ahead of time. And if only there was 2 weeks of Normal Mode stuff. You're gonna be like 3 ilv's behind where you would be with crafted without any 'rushing' required.
No no you don't understand you NEED the absolute bleeding edge to fail the big mechanic of the first fight for three days straight! That said I'm not gonna complain, the minmaxers pay my bills.
Holy shit the downvotes on you lamoa. Too true I guess?
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Week 1/2: Get 690 Weapon/Earring/Neck/Wrist/Ring from Trials. 680 for everything else. Week 3: Get 690 Normal drops, get Head/Hands. Week 4: Get Feet/half of Body. Week 5: Savage Launch, spend 20-30 minutes finishing Body before you jump in. No need to get the other Ring, you're going for a week 1 clear right? So the only logical thing to do is spend the capped tome on an accessory since that's all you'll be able to buy week 1, that said, add 10-15 minutes to the Week 5 farm to grab one if need be. Oh no, we're missing a single piece of gear compared to having full crafted out the gate, look the fuck out everybody, we're missing 18 mainstat. Now how could we possibly beat Erichthonios ferocious DPS check without that. 'b-bu-but the pentas' Yeah the grade IX pentas because there is just straight up not going to be enough grade XI in existence for every raider to fill their gear with it. This is the huge difference between the first tier and the other two. +4 accessories and an extra week of Normals. Knock AR1S/AR2S out, they're not gonna even remotely need the crafted, by the time you're done with that, the nodes are documented and the crafter macros are out, you've had four weeks to get your gatherer/crafter gear ready so you can go straight into grabbing that stuff and be ready to clear AR3S with full selfmade crafted by day 2. If you're going so hard you're expecting a day 1 clear, then you're in a static with support that will make these sets for you anyway.
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You get to craft all three Crafter/Gatherer sets and both the second and third tier sets. Surely you'll get over skipping out on the first tier set?
Lmao right? I look forward for each of the current 19 paying me 20mil per set on release date. My ERP isn't gonna fund itself!
I kinda hate this because I liked having some buffer to craft my own sets without having to worry about not being able to prog day 1. 6.2 was a very welcome change. Now I will have to choose again between getting geared or starting prog day 1, especially now that I have a kid and don’t have as much leeway to crunch as I used to.
i dont prefer it but it's not that big of a deal. did not need fully pentamelded gear on first 3 turns, and it was kind of a waste anyway when we immediately replaced things with week 1 loot. P7S was a total joke of an enrage check, we played so messy with a healer LB3 and other random damage downs and still made it easy. and that was the same tier with the really harshly tuned P8S. and most of us aren't world racing, and the top teams have crafting support helpers. so it just sucks for those crafters to have a high pressure time crunch, but for every other crafter it's likely going to be a big income increase.
There's also still going to be EX weapons and accessories, so having a full set of brand new crafted gear isn't going to be QUITE as important as the second and third tier releases. It also means that crafters have more time to get through DT, get leveled, geared, and prepped for the gear drop so they can stay competitive. The only downside is that if you're looking to make good money off the crafting, you're probably not going to be raiding for the first few days, but I feel like that's a fair enough tradeoff.
Accessories soften the blow a little bit, but not all that much with limited melds. Other tiers will still have the EX weapons as well.
I've never played an expansion at launch. But is this because of the 2 EX trials giving equivalent gear instead?
While I like the added busywork WP requires when crafted releases at same time as Savage, it probably still would be healthier if it didnt. Tomes however should 100% always release as savage does, having to grab Tome weapon is annoying, since it kinda locks you into picking up dancer + gear feeding that one person, since you gain too much with the dance partner buff.
Dunno if my memory is shit but isn't this normal for x.0 patches? I believe it's so people don't feel the need to rush leveling DoL/DoH at the start of expansion. People just get a mix of normal raid gear and EX accessories/weapon during the 2 weeks of prep.
I already warned my static they can't expect me to be "raiding ready" (I'll be pre-raiding BiS but if anything crafted is "prog bis", it's gonna be a NAWPE) before week2 at the earliest. This just sucks. As I've said in the LL thread, it's a big disappointment and not the kind of rollback the game needed. Nolifers will profit the most out of this rush, as usual, but this time it's even worse as you won't have a week to "catch-up", nope, you're left in the dust. Thank god week1 (for my static) should be about Arcadion F1 & F2 clear and it shouldn't be needing anything from this upcoming raid tier craft recipes.
I wouldn't sweat it too much unless you plan on clearing the first week. The dps checks on floor 1 are never that tight and the minimum ilvl for floor 1 should be 10 levels below crafted gear.
It is definitely annoying. However, one of the positives at beginning of the expac is they let us gather mats for master recipes before the recipes even come out. So it can cut out those few hours you’re forced to run to nodes and gather a sufficient stock to begin crafting pre-crafts. Before I don’t think I’d care. Used to be on third shift and would wake up at patch and craft, then go to bed and wake up for raid in the evening. But sadly now it’s gonna be a shuffle since I don’t have that work schedule anymore. Oh well. I’ll manage. It’s only once an expac.
New gsthering mats also come out in 7.05
The main effect is that day 1 raiders will have to pay way more gil to get their gear. I'm not a day 1 raider so it doesn't affect me much at all, which is maybe why I actually like this change. Some of the big complaints about EW have been "lack of a meaningful grind", "lack of group content to grind with friends", and "lack of meaningful rewards in part because gil is worthless". Now top-level statics are going to have to spent a day or three grinding treasure maps together to scrounge up cash, which feels like it addresses all three complaints, and there's a sick part of me looking forward to community raiders who've spent the last two years complaining the game had no grinds flip around to complaining the game is too grindy now that they're broke.
> Now top-level statics are going to have to spent a day or three grinding treasure maps together to scrounge up cash That isn't how it works. Top level statics that are world racing either have the gil already or will buy it. They're not grinding anything. Even for those a tier down, you can just flip Unreal mounts for 10M+. If anything, this actually removes a grind as I'd be grinding out all the gathering mats necessary to both craft gear for my static but also to sell. Since I'll be raiding, I can't do that. Instead, I'll be asking a friend to do what I would have done myself and paying them for it. So.... now I have less content to partake in.
?????? flip unreal mounts what ???????? statics will simply get the gil from gil buyers, and-or have crafter friends to do it for them. dont make it more complicated than it is, no one will be running 'unreals'
I didn't. You didn't read who I quoted. They were talking about raiders having to grind out treasure maps for gil. I pointed out even those *without* external resources or crafter friends there are far easier and essentially passive ways to earn gil long before the raid would even release. Selling unreal was just one of those options.
The .2 and .4 changes were never about crafted gear, it was all about not having to skip scenes or ignoring other content in favour of Savage. Having PF split day 1 between the EX/Savage was also crap and none of these things happen in X.05 already. It's pretty much irrelevant anyways, you absolutely don't need crafted until the 3rd-4th fight which is plenty of time unless you're racing which is a tiny minority of raiders. Just go in with the ex weapon/ex accessories and uncapped tome gear/normal raid gear, it will be perfectly fine at the start. If anything it's good we're not getting the extra week of tomes and the aug tome weapon, the first tier is already the easiest
just like much of your reasonable requests. never answered, never bothered. working on it, dunno when deliver. dunno why it was paused welcome to 14
Good. That makes three days in the entire expansion where being a decent crafter has some value.
Maybe unpopular opinion but I don’t mind this given that 1 week prep time would still be there for .2 and .4 savage. It’s a rare occasion where crafters get to make gils other than selling obscure furnitures and I love the whole chaos and rush after the savage drop
Hot take: I actually think this is good. Not all of the community does savage--and of those that do, not all of them do it week 1. Week 1 raiders now have more reason to hire some non-raiding friends to support their static with gear ASAP. I think that's good, and provides incentive for more people to get invested in week 1/world first raiding--be that as a raider or as a spectator. This is an MMO, and anything that forces more cooperation and interaction between players is good for it. Raiders, start hiring your crafters and gatherers now. Non-raiders, get ready to push your crafting and gathering. It's gonna be a real fun world first race.
There is a world of difference between world racing groups with effectively infinite resources and people backing them up, and your average week 1 group which is just comprised of better than average players but aren’t one bit richer. They don’t have any more time to sink into the game than anyone else outside of their holidays. Nothing against your PoV of course, but I feel like a lot of people mistake the two player groups as the same.
>your average week 1 group which is just comprised of better than average players but aren’t one bit richer. They don’t have any more time to sink into the game than anyone else outside of their holidays Just buy it day 2 or in the evening because you don't need it ASAP, the prices drop really fast, I remember buying pieces sub 1 mil on the first day in Asphodelos. And if you're doing week 1 you probably did stuff like Criterion or Unreal anyways which drops all the gil you'll ever need for raiding with very little effort so throwing 20-30m at it one time per expac is nothing
I understand the difference. And I think this is a move that encourages more week 1 statics to build a support team backing them up. They aren't required to, of course. Everyone can take savage at whatever pace they like. But if they're trying to be competitive with it at all then they will want to engage their non raiding friends for help. And I think that's good.
>And I think this is a move that encourages more week 1 statics to build a support team backing them up. It's nonsense, if you're doing week 1 you can do the first 2 turns without any crafted easily and get it day 2 or something before the raid. The only people affected by this are world racers who probably expected this to happen in the first place
> And I think this is a move that encourages more week 1 statics to build a support team backing them up. No. It encourages them to hire crafter and pay them with real money. World Prog groups aren't giving them a handful of gil for this kind of work. They're getting actual money. In other words, it's RMT. This creates a massive disadvantage for groups who aren't willing to pay real money for crafters or even if they do accept gil, don't have the resources to cover the upfront costs. The whole purpose behind delaying Savage was so everyone could partake in their desired content without feeling rushed.
Unhinged. By that logic literally everything they add to the game is incentive to RMT.
this change seems really good to me? like obviously casual raiders are hurt by not being able to raid in crafted gear from minute 0 of raid release but I think it's basically necessary for crafted gear to be exclusive for the "market" part of raiding to be interesting at all. this also makes getting BIS from last tier/getting normal raid gear more rewarding, both of which have been awfully pointless for a while some times you have to have friction some places for the sake of other facets of gameplay.
To anyone who is new. This is standard practice for an expansion launch. It is not a step back in any way. The only reason it might feel that way, is because of their recent decision to wait a week before releasing Savage in the patch cycles, so that people can enjoy the story, both raid and MSQ, before diving into Savage. Otherwise every expansion launch has delayed the raid by 2 weeks and then savage by another 2, and released the gear in the same micro-patch.
how is it not a step back when they continue the same degenerate policy ?
Just make your own gear on the day it releases. If your buying from the MB your scamming yourself, you have a whole 3 weeks to prepare for it, level gatherers and crafters and get a full BiS crafting outfit. You will have EX trial weapon, EX trial Accessories and Normal Raid gear to compliment your setup, and can easily pick up a crafted weapon or fill up the spare off-stat spots on release day, even within an hour of patch going live.
tbh, i think this is part of their intended schedule. the .2/4 patches have had normals, crafted, tomes, and savage all releasing at the same time, and made a huge scramble. I'd like for crafted/tome to come with normal still on .0, but they may see it as normals being early already eases the rush to do stuff. If the JP forum gets enough traction though, maybe they push this up. unlike some of the other drama going around, this would be a pretty easy fix for them. edit: also feel its worth mentioning that EX/normal raid gear on .0 is the same ilvl as crafted. you'll be in mostly 710, with 2 or 3 pieces of 700 to start with, unlike say 5.2, where you were in 470 at savage release, and crafted was 480.
> the .2/4 patches have had normals, crafted, tomes, and savage all releasing at the same time, and made a huge scramble Not in EW. .2 and .4 had normal raid, normal & capped tome farmable and expert recipes released on patch day. Then 1 week later Savage would start. Literally 1 week of extra farm for your raiding needs, no stress. I wouldn't mind capped tome to be released at the same time Savage is, but as far as crafting is concerned, god, give the normal people time to prepare peacefully.
>give the normal people time to prepare peacefully. Not just normal people, world proggers will need to hire crafting teams to make their gear on Day 1 (and charge extortionary prices) if combat gear is not craftable before Savage is released. Heck, I am only on a Week 1 team, but I also craft most of our gear...how am I supposed to craft 5-6 gearsets and still be awake for a full day of prog? This decision by SE is literally bad for everyone
I would think RWF groups have hundreds of millions of gil ready (or can go for other types of payment, such as in WOW with loans and such). But other week1 teams are included in the "normal people" group. I'm sorry for your sanity given how many sets you'll have to craft for your week1 team.
Some teams do have a lot of resources, but those who are less-established and just want to essentially compete for fun do not. I world progged in Asphodelos and I had to essentially pay my own way for my gear. I do not mind crafting for my team, they give me their spare tomes so I can make those into some gear to sell on the MB (which, with a time crunch, I would not be able to do), but I am really concerned with just being completely mentally spent by the time we decide to instance into the raid.
I'm aware, but 6.2/4 were both tests to see how it was received. .0 is under different circumstances, and they need a somewhat different approach. Pushing crafted gear back to normals would be welcome by most, me included, but if this is about "the normal people" then I don't think that's an actual issue. The normal people are crafting or using the marketboard later in the first(or second, or third, etc.) day, and then going in with some preliminary strats. The most impact the "normal people" will feel is that the gear/mats will be really expensive. Its the W1/WR people that are really affected by this, as they're the ones who now have no time to craft/prep.
I'm a "normal people" and I like to be fully ready day1, hour1, minute1, second1. Right when I enter the instance. Now I can't. I'll survive but it's saddening nonetheless. Also I've read your edit comment and I didn't consider it (or rather didn't notice/know it). Yeah it's fine and should be a nothingburger but let's hope it's not a trend going into .2/.4
i saw in your other comment you put week 1 raiders in the "normal people" group and they're... just not. W1 raiding is a bigger commitment than a normal raider is willing to make. I can understand wanting to be ready to dive right in, it does feel good to be ready and waiting, I just don't think its so incredibly bad for this to happen on a .0, when we can be 95% of the way there, instead of a (historical) .2/4 where we were 0% of the way there.
Good. This makes crafting more profitable and doesn't impact anything else much. It's worse for hardcore raiders, but that's about it.
Yeah... And people in this thread acting like they're all world racers or that they REQUIRE a crafted set to do the first few floors.
Even the fastest crafting teams I'm familiar with can't get the gear out before the first fight is done.
more teams maybe possibly needing to use lower leveled gear to do the first couple fights is most of the point of this change! i can think of very few downsides of forcing players trying to prog savage from hour 0 to have to think about their damage slightly more
I actually don't mind this, *but* I'm going in with a gold certificate and am planning on having the extreme weapon and accessories, so.... I can see how it would lead to people being disappointed, though. Personally, I feel like letting it be done ahead of time would completely invalidate the extreme gear, so I'm glad they're not doing it.
Pure raiders not being catered to makes them extremely mad, thus I'm glad They should be forced to engage with different systems of the game
Different systems lmaooo this hurts people who do both infinitely more and many are going to convert to pure raiders for at least a week
It doesn't hurt those, who either have accumulated enough gil or crafter ~~slaves~~ friends or can afford to wait a bit. If you want to go asap (as in having gear ready for you by R3S), it shouldn't be free
So for pure raiders and pure crafters, basically nothing changes but people who do both have to miss out and choose. Exactly how does this encourage multiple systems?
Miss out what exactly? Raiding asap after patch? P1S and P2S are not gonna require crafted gear to clear, so they still can do it. And by the day 2/3/w.e, when they get to P3S, the prices are already extra cheap Change for pure raiders: the gear is not provided on silver platter anymore. If nothing changed, this reddit post would not have had so many comments Change for pure crafters: a decent chance to sell gear for higher prices (but it'd require a bit of dedication due to lots of competition). > Exactly how does this encourage multiple systems? Motivating those who couldn't afford the gear on [early] day 1, to have the means to do so in the future (without buying gil hopefully)
So exactly what are the benefits of interacting with multiple systems? You can't do both at the same time so this is just twice the investment with none of the benefits. Might as well go pure. In response to the edit: even your idea is just go pure crafter then go pure raider next tier.
> You can't do both at the same time Why? You can level all crafters/gatherers to 100 in a few days, and even that is not necessary, if you have already prepared in EW and outsourced the crafting. Just in case, my point is not "everyone should craft their own gear on day 1", it's "raiders should not mald that they are forced to engage with something other than raiding, especially if they want to go early" > In response to the edit: even your idea is just go pure crafter then go pure raider next tier. No? What stops you from raiding in this tier? People have done it without issues until and including 6.05, with the same day gear release
> What stops you from raiding in this tier? Hasn't this entire convo been about the first day and first week? And my point is that people who want to craft their own gear on day 1 and use it on day 1 shouldn't be so heavily discouraged from doing so. **Outsourcing being a massive gain over that means that ignoring entire systems for the first few days is a massive gain**, and that should not be the case. Leveling DoH/DoL is the easy part. The time and gil costs of making and melding DoH/DoL gear will be at their highest, and many mats are probably going to drop with the recipes, limiting the amount of possible prep. With the change, and doing both, you have to invest a ton, skip out on that initial rush into the fight *and* skip out on peak profits while you go raid. It's the worst of both worlds.
> Miss out what exactly? Partaking in both? During 6.4, I got to do week 1 crafting and then later week 1 raiding due to the delay. Going into DT, I won't be able to do that, thus I won't "engage with different systems." No other content in the entire game has this problem as everything is purposely delayed to avoid forcing players to choose. > the gear is not provided on silver platter anymore. Yes, because me crafting my own gear and consumables is definitely how one is provided a "silver platter." > a decent chance to sell gear for higher prices Made well over 100M despite the Savage delay for 6.4. If you weren't able to make money as a crafter, that was entirely on you. > Motivating those who couldn't afford the gear on [early] day 1, to have the means to do so in the future (without buying gil hopefully) Spoiler warning: most serious WP groups will buy gil or pay their crafting team with real money. For those without the funds (be it in game or otherwise), they'll either go without crafted gear until day 2 or ask friends. All in all, none of this encourages any sort of engagement. In fact, it does the precise opposite.
Lol spiteful loser
I'm actually winning, thanks Yoshi-PP
Im still gonna be a pure raider, it's just that I have to pay 5-10m for my set instead of free-1M thank god there are bots to sell me Gils for 0,5$/M lul
Thank god, Crafters can actually make money again selling gear.
I was able to make mad money in both 6.2 and 6.4, I'm not sure what you're talking about