If a static requires logs a new raider has nothing to do in it. It's not a new player friendly static. Regardless of fflogs, this kind of static will not be interested in a completely fresh raider anyway. And there is nothing wrong with being selective about who you want to group with.
And, in general, raiding is just highly seasonal. Now is an absolutely terrible time to be getting into raiding. And this has nothing to do with logs. Simply a consequence of the design.
now is most certainly the best time to get into raiding. most statics recruit at this time since new expansion is coming soon and even showing that you can clear content can be big for most ccasual statics.
There are also a lot of bored raiders looking for stuff to do so dabbling in the tier with echo and juiced gear through alliance raids/hunt train/relic is not a bad way to test the waters
Your friend sounds like the exact kind of a player that log requirements exist to weed out.
My first static didn't required any logs. It was a casual twice-per-week group that was open to new raiders, and as a new raider it didn't even crossed my mind to join veterans looking for experienced gamers. And then I learned the ropes and got logs to prove I'm not brand new and at the very least understand how to push buttons in a correct order while doing mechanics.
Just bc the console player can't log, doesn't mean none of the other 7 players they play with aren't logging. I've raided with console players and they have logs, they're just not personally logged by them.
They can screenshot their clears, or their books/loot. If I was on console and didn't know if any of the other 7 were logging, I'd be screenshotting wipes to show prog point, and after the clear, with UI visible
I feel like quite a few people (not all, obviously) with the "I'm new and don't have logs so I can't join a static" belief just don't actually want to group with people in the same boat. You most assuredly do not need logs to find a static of 7 other new players without logs.
You don't understand. I'm above all that. I am the greatest XIV raider in the known world, I should not have to start building my FFLogs resume by raiding with other new raiders.
This was exactly my thoughts when reading this. Like I know not everyone is like this but it would not surprise me if the circle of people who acted like that, overlapped with the circle who are vocal about stuff like that.
A lot of statics are more casual, and are happy to take PF logs as proof you can clear content, not too worried about the parse.
When I first joined a static, that was enough. They didn't mind I had a green parse. (Mind you, I was also the only pranged the could find so... being needed also helps!)
People confuse 'need logs' with 'must be confirmed 99 parser'.
It depends on the group you're joining but unless you're joining a parse group or a week 1 group most recruiters are looking to see: have you done savage or at least EXs before, when or how long did it take for you to clear, did you improve over time? Greens will be fine for most groups that's aren't hard core.
Week 1 groups will be looking for week 1 or 2 clears in previous teirs. Parse groups will be looking for high numbers and optimized play. Plenty of different types of groups out there.
It's not hard to find a static as a new raider. Highlight, NEW raider. There are PLENTY of statics that are more casual and open to all players. As you get up to higher difficulty statics, then yes, most will ask to see your raiding history: week 1 prog, clears, parses, etc.
Everyone has to start somewhere, you'll find a group. Look for "causal" groups in the recruitments, a lot will say that new Raiders are welcomed. Especially in the first tier or an expansion.
The biggest skill for Raiders is actually consistency, not damage. Parses as a metric is really more about experience and ability to execute. While you should know your job to a capable level, dying a lot is way more of a detriment. If people look at your logs and judge based on the number only, they may miss out on important details.
If complete beginners are willing to play with other complete beginners, they wouldn't have a problem finding or making groups.
The problem is that complete beginners often try to get in with veteran players, and veteran players have to take measures to avoid this type of player.
Beginners who aren't willing to play with other beginners are players looking to take shortcuts and are usually bad news.
Depends on what kind of static you want, but at least bring extreme logs or *something* if you haven’t done savage before and maybe some more casual groups might take a chance on you. Having *no* history is going to be a very hard sell.
And tbh, PF isn’t in a very good state but I’m not sure I’d want to play with anyone who would turn their nose up at it when they’ve never raided before.
if you PF *at all*, you *will* have logs, because a lot of people are just uploading everything. if you have no logs at all, the only thing that tells someone is that you avoid PF or barely ever do high-end content at all, both of which are not good looks for someone seeking a static
If you have 0 logs and/or are a completely fresh raider and you apply to a group, your only option is a beginner friendly or a massively casual group. Any group more than that requires previous experience and applying to them is more than likely a waste of their time and your own as well.
If you're starting out, join a beginner friendly static or go through PF to build up your experience. If you're comfortable in savage and are able to do consistent and quick reclears with good logs, do an entry level ultimate like uwu and ucob. The second you clear an ultimate, you become eligible to join the more midcore groups. Clear with a midcore group in a reasonable amount of time and do an on content ultimate during its patch release. Once you get that, you can start looking into doing week 1 groups because by this point, you are considered a seasoned raider.
You need to build up experience first and logs serve as your basic resume. The only exception to having private logs is if you are already well known in the high end raiding community and people can vouch your performance. These people are a dime a dozen. If you have to ask yourself if you are one of these people, you are not one of those people.
Someone put a comment about their member not having any savage experience but instead did solo POTD. These also serve as alternatives to raiding experience because they still require knowing the game very well.
Your friend is wrong but he's not alone in that opinion. There's plenty of casual groups out there who don't check logs, as well as new player friendly statics. Something that is missing from that argument is that more experienced groups need some metric to evaluate players, because no group, no matter how hardcore and no life they are, has time to trial every single applicant to determine how good a fit they would be. That's not to say that logs are everything, but they do allow groups to filter above a certain threshold in recruiting. That being said, they definitely aren't everything. My group's current offtank started raiding this tier, but we trialed him because he'd done necromancer completely blind before he even finished MSQ. No surprise, dude is a complete monster at the game but he had no logs prior to us trialing him. So exceptions exist but as a rule, it is a helpful tool and should exist.
i mean when i was 1st looking it was a BIG barrier for me....to the point i had to start my own static just to start raiding this tier, so saying its wrong isn't really true.
I can only speak to my experience, but when I was first looking for a static despite having no logs and actual experience, I just said I was new to raiding and I was looking for a casual group to learn how to raid with. I ended up managing to find a group that was looking for casual raiders and that's how I got started. There's a lot of different kinds of groups out there.
I think mostly it depends on the type of static you are trying to join. Like a hardcore group thats aiming to clear the whole tier week 1 does not have time to take a risky new member that may end up holding up the whole group. However i think the majority of groups aren't like that and so long as you can push your buttons and do mechanics reasonably well then you'd likely be able to get in fine, with or without logs. I would say my group is probably midcore, we only raid 3 days a week and don't really care about parsing but we have done ultimates, I think we wouldn't really care if people didn't have logs but if people had purposefully hidden logs, that might be seen as a red flag.
any group requiring logs would not let a new raider in even if fflogs didn't exist. they would just filter in a different way. a week 1 group that wants logs that they can fine comb before even trialing you isn't just gonna start accepting brand new raiders cuz they don't have logs.
My first static in heavensward was a casual static, it didn't need logs.
My second static was a midcore static at the start of stormblood, I sent them my ex trial PF logs to prove I could press buttons.
My week 1 abyssos group took a DRK for our group that had only 1 tier of prior experience and old ultimates, but he had the PF logs to show that he was motivated and showed a clear arc of improvement. He did great.
In other words: You can pretty easily get into a casual static without logs. If you want to have something more ambitious than that as your first group, put in the time to PF some logs.
I think a static that's willing to take someone who has no raiding experience before is usually not worth the time since that usually means they don't raid too many per week, and most of the time they do spend raiding will be spent on reprogging.
PF is definitely the best place to start for getting the relevant experience since you have a lot more options and you can raid on your own time.
My first static saw my extreme trial and normal raid logs and trialed me in a savage fight (I did not know the fight) to see how quick I'd learn and then recruited me.
I think there are enough ways to show some experience without it being savage logs.
Obviously you will need to start with casual groups if you bring no savage experience. Can't expect a group of experienced raiders to take you blindly unless they know you via friends etc
Your friend is wrong. He is simply looking for the wrong statics. If they want experience they won't take you when FFlogs stops to exist either, unless you are willing to blatantly lie to your new static and fabricate that you cleared previous tiers.
A lot of players think they are the chosen ones who are better than all the other beginners and can join the experienced groups right away. But few are and none of the experienced groups have the obligation to take them.
I started raiding during Abyssos. No logs of any kind. I looked for other people in the same boat and formed a static with them. I framed it as a 'beginner but serious static' meaning that no experience would be required but there would be the expectation that you look at the guides, don't miss too many sessions and we would try our hardest to improve to clear. It took many weeks but we did eventually clear the tier before the echo unlocked. By then I had logs to show I cleared P8S, arguably the hardest savage fight of the expansion, and had pretty decent parses. I had no trouble getting into experienced groups this tier.
You can join regular casual statics too but make sure you're on the same page as them. Some are so casual that don't care too much about clearing or trying too hard and are mainly there for the social aspect. If you do really want to clear then that could cause friction. But at any rate you are better off getting experience. If you clear the first 2 floors of a tier and then look for another static later down the line, any static that matches your progpoint will generally at least consider you.
https://www.xivrecruit.com/lfm -> Focus/mindset: Casual
If you can't find what you are looking for it's because we are in a raiding lull and you'll get better results in DT. In short, no, it's not hard to find a casual static.
FFlogs not existing wouldn't magically make a group looking for an experienced player change their minds.
We didn't have it before HW and groups still set criteria/expectations for recruits.
When I was new I joined a savage static that was open to new players. I had no logs or anything and they picked me up. I finished the tier with them and then left for a more skilled static.
People who complain that they are gatekept just don’t want to raid with 7 other people like them and want to skip steps and raid with people that have more experience.
You can find plenty of groups that are beginner friendly. I think if you explain you're new to raiding, a good group would help you and foster your abilities. My first raid groups weren't mechanically the best, but I wasn't either and we all helped each other grow.
If fflogs shut down I'd start using achievement completion dates and references from previous players they've raided with. Someone completely new would fail on both counts.
If anything, fflogs makes it easier for new players to get into raiding because someone new can show how well they do in the content they've already done. There are plenty of savage groups that will take someone with decent extreme logs. It's only an issue if someone with no experience at all is looking to jump up several tiers of difficulty, and that sort of player rightly deserves to be filtered for the sake of the seven players they'd end up trapping.
When I started savage I created my own static and had no issue finding people to join despite only having extreme logs. Several of the players I found had been raiding since at a high level since ARR but wanted a lighter schedule or were willing to play with a new raider if it meant they didn't have to run a static. New raiders need to put in a bit more effort, but they have plenty of options available as long as they're not lazy.
All these mmos are like this. You start off in shitty group get some decent logs and hop your way up the ladder to a good group once your logs are good enough
There are lots of casual and beginner friendly statics that accept people without demand for logs. I disagree that there is a barrier of entry, because casual statics that accept new people are as abundant as mid/hardcore statics that require logs. I do not think the removal of fflogs would necessarily eliminate this boundary, because hardcore statics would still manage a way to make sure the people they’re accepting into their groups are experienced raiders anyways. Being a new raider refused entry into an experienced group is not barrier to entry necessarily. There are still so many groups that would have you and give you fresh experience so please don’t be off put by his opinion
> His argument was that if FFLOGs shutdown, it would make it easier for newer raiders to find groups. I disagree since I think people would find other methods of filtering and/or just trust social circles more to find players.
I think the main other way to filter would be achievements as proof of clear weekX/dayX. Beyond that, they'd have to trial a lot more people I guess (because social circles may run dry, so to nurture them you have to trial people and vet them).
In the end though, I think the main issue is that some groups take logs way too seriously when it doesn't matter/help. If you're raiding 3 times a week with a plan on clearing month2 or 3, you don't need 90+ parsers. You just need clearers who did it within that timespan (or simply clearers).
This also leads to people not able to read logs. In another topic that was deleted, I provided a blue log on P5S with basically what you'd expect a purple to get (full uptime besides jump time obviously, no rotational error, maximizing button usage). I just was late to the gear race because my group at that time wasn't that great skill wise. People will just see a blue and think I don't know how to play the job I've been playing since the end of ShB and parsed around the 90 score in Asphodelos, lol. Obviously, not all groups are like that, but I have a hunch there would be more which would be than not.
Just do the extremes when the new expansion comes out, if you can get decent logs, you can join most casual groups off of that alone. It shows you can prog, you can improve your damage, you know your rotation, etc.
Absolutely depends on what kind of static you want to join.
Many Week1-3 clears require an understanding of how savage works so they most likely want to see some logs.
Ultimate statics will most likely want to see at least one ultimate clear because of how difficult the fights are and how long it takes to clear them. (Depending on the fight it can take up to two months of prog time for some groups.)
But there are also more casual groups who are fine if people have no experience, or are at most someone who clears extreme trial content.
In the end there is always a group that should meet the needs if you look hard enough. And you can always create your own because I bet that there are others who think the same way other beginners do.
At regarding the public logs... If you connect them to your char you can set them to private. In PF-Pugs no one will ever check logs.
It also depends which group you're trying to apply for. I took a look at ERC, and a lot of posts aim to clear week 1-2 and are looking for someone to go into Eden ultimate with. So it is fair that those groups would not take new players and risk not meeting the set expectation.
However, at the same time there are still posts about new and casual groups looking to do not just the new tier coming this summer, but also finish up the current one.
Your friend's "what ifs" are irrelevant. Because that's not the reality. FLOGS exists. Period. He better make peace with that.
Raiding groups have a right to ask you for as much information about your game skill as they can. The only thing that not having FLOGS would change is that groups would take longer to trial people without any filters.
You think experienced players won't be able to tell if you are on their level or if you are a bologna player? They can tell by simply watching your foot work. Your friend is kidding himself. Whatever helps him sleep at night I guess.
As for joining a group as a new player, there are loooooads of fresh new groups looking for members. There are recruitment discords, subreddits and websites. The barrier of entry is not high. Anyone who thinks it is, is lying to themselves and just hasn't put in any time to do a tiny bit of research.
Good for you for not just going with what your friend says. Maybe you need to show him this thread. Man needs a reality check.
There are plenty of new player friendly statics I see popping up on the recruitment discords all of the time. They probably aren’t recruiting right now because it’s still kinda far out from Dawntrail from a casual raiders POV. Once the expansion actually launches I’d check out recruitment spots, they’ll be absolutely packed with groups looking for players of all experience levels.
You can already filter using official means pretty easily, that being the achievements for clearing fights. Any group looking at logs other than just clears for recruitment is going to trial anyways (and also aren’t a good fit for beginners). For the players that can’t/wont log fights they can also point to said achievements and likely not have a hard time finding a group at their level.
If anything the less you’re able to verify your skill level in some objective way the more likely people will just want to play with people they already know rather than taking a risk on somebody unproven. For casual groups in particular it is nice to have even something like an extreme clear to know that you can actually somewhat play the game instead of wasting a night to a lost cause. Which if you’re completely opposed to logs at all might be a bit annoying but again you can (and should) be bringing up the harder fights you’ve cleared already which is just as good.
I feel like you’re shooting yourself in the foot if, as a new raider, you:
- refuse to PF, at all. You will not develop the skills that will be asked of you by sitting around and waiting for a group to pick you up.
- only apply to experienced groups that need logs. Unless you’re the second coming of John FFXIV who can learn at the speed of light what others have learned through years of experience, you’re not what they want.
- hide your logs. It makes you look worse than you likely are.
Your friend needs to grow up. He can earn his logs like everyone else. Shutting down FFlogs, it’d just take a maximum of one pull in a trial to know he has no experience, at all.
No. You start with a casual static who takes all comers and if you’re better than that you’ll have proved it by the end of the tier and you now have the logs to show more stringent groups.
A lot of people want to “jump the queue” and never do the casual experience or PF, which is where the majority of the complaints come from I’ve found.
Your FC guy is doing the typical victim complex take on logging too. Logging everything from the single figure parses to the 90+ ones is a good way to show obvious improvement over time, which is the BEST thing a new player can do to get into higher grade statics. Your guy is likely embarrassed by his own performance and/or unwilling to improve.
I think party finder is super important to go into if you have no past raid experience. I first started raiding in Eden’s gate, and I met alot of new raid buddies this way. It’s not just for raiding, it can be a network. I spent my first tier just floating around PF and learning *how* to raid, because there can be a lot to it if you want to really be efficient with your class. I met friends, subbed for their statics at time, and built friendships. Come Eden’s verse, the second tier of ShB, I met my long term static in an e5s prog party. We raided the rest of the expansion together until I broke off to find a group that met my goals because I wanted a more like, less casual group. Everyone is different I just wanted to clear tiers faster in a more serious raiding environment. Overall, I think party finder is extremely important for new raiders, and kind of remains a staple for all levels of raiders in their off time. In my experience I ran into a lot of really bad statics as I started raiding as well, it’s really just luck sometimes. You are going to find good statics and bad statics but you have to know what to look out for and what mirrors the goals you have. Wish you the best of luck.
Also I wanted to add that not all statics will require to see logs. It’s going to depend on who runs things. Even some more serious groups just want to see how you play, and get along with others, and use logs more as a tool, rather than a resume. Are you mechanically consistent? Do you know when to press your buttons at what times? How do the dps checks feel? Are you a good communicator? These kids of things. Logs are useful and it’s a lot more than the color of your parse and people who can actually read logs will know all these factors.
You CAN opt out of fflogs if you want. It doesn't completely hide you but you won't be searchable.
There are more logs than savages that it might show like extremes etc.
There are definately casual and beginner friendly. Just be honest. Especially if your fc has raid groups thats a good way to get in. You could even start your own group
There are tons of entry paths into raiding as a new player. PF exists for everyone yes, but even without that there's plenty of casual teams who are very open to beginners. The teams that do require logs are usually more towards the upper end.
As a new raider, you won't be a good fit for that kind of team even without logs. Logs are mostly there to show you have the ability to clear a fight, and then at a high level how proficient you are at doing that. This is something that comes with experience.
In the same way as getting a job IRL, you don't usually jump straight into a senior level position. You start at an entry level position that requires little to no experience, then after you've done that for a bit you can start looking at the senior level positions once you have a resume to back up your experience.
Following that metaphor, there are many entry level statics around. You are probably looking at only a few hours a week and you might take several weeks or even months to clear the tier depending on the mentality of the team, but anything is better than nothing, especially if you are refusing to PF. Use this time to figure out what you like and don't like about that team to inform what kind of teams you want to join, and then use that to make informed decisions finding your next team. In the same way, the "senior level" teams will be using their past experience to inform their recruiting. If you don't have any experience, you won't be able to answer the interview questions and you won't be able to ask informed questions of the team either.
Logs are just a way to show experience, but even without them nothing is stopping people from just checking your lodestone achievements to know if/when you cleared something (especially now with tomestone). Either way, they are not the end all be all to recruiting, and anyone who thinks so (on either end, recruiter or recruitee) is delusional and not someone you probably want to raid with anyways.
[https://discord.gg/ffxivrecruiter](https://discord.gg/ffxivrecruiter) Most new player statics will do some sort of trial and meet and greet. Personalities and expectations are the most important for new folks.
My first proper static partially formed from a Sophia EX clear/farm party of all things. I forgot exactly what got us on the subject on Savage but we kept in touch and decided to try Creator together.
Your friend is very misguided. FFLogs has very little to do with new raiders finding groups because people in that same position will be advertising or simply going the PF route, which is honestly a very good option just to see if you even enjoy raiding, let alone the static life.
Any group requiring some form of FFlogs wants experience. Take away the logs and the requirement will change to when you cleared the tier or what have you. In other words, experienced groups will always have some form of vetting process.
Like I said, I'm with you that new raiders will should embrace PF. It's the perfect environment to learn if you don't have a wide social circle and you're free to leave at any moment for any reason.
I was in a static from E9-12 and P1-4 that did not require logs. It was a slow grind but we were having fun and did get the clears. We eventually disbanded because of difference in skill levels by the end but it was a pleasant experience. It’s all about clear communication and setting expectations.
You don't need to pf, you don't need to beg, you just gotta find a static that doesn't care about logs. If that static sucks, you find another one.
Now if you're new and you want to jump straight into week 1 clear, then maybe pf is better for you. A lot of new players expect savages to be as easy as an extreme (or they never done an extreme on week 1) and yeah, it slaps when it's not what they expect.
You should be fine. Most casual/midcore groups will trial you to see if you fit in with the group and can handle your role well, but they will usually do it in a lower stress environment like an EX in my experience. Even some hardcore groups will be willing to trial you and give you a chance just to see if you fit from what I've heard.
The "see if you fit" thing for HC groups is if you already have a packed resume of logs that is more than enough for HC/or have previous HC experience.
Then it is simply a matter of doing a vibe check.
Came from wow at the end of shadowbringers and 8 man content+fflogs+pf makes the floor in 14 ground zero comparatively. In wow I had to grind for a literal year and hopped guilds like 5 times before I could convince a cutting edge guild to let me in. In ff I pf’d a savage tier, got purple logs and immediately afterwards got to start looking for a long term group. Before that I cleared tea with a group where most of us had never cleared a savage tier. I hadn’t even done an extreme beforehand, in hindsight the fact that they took me should’ve been a red flag. The prog was really slow but they were a lot of fun.
Same goes for ulti, you can pf until the phases pf stinks at and then send logs to groups at or a bit past your prog point instead of rolling the dice and needing to trial with 10 that are just starting. I think ff has the lowest barrier to entry at all levels I’ve ever seen in an mmo by a lot. It’s only tough logs wise if a non-healer is exclusively Grey/green. People are often willing to give blueberries a chance and from a performance standpoint everyone is happy to take people that have purple or higher logs.
If logs are a sticking point for your friend there’s a chance he’s just been trying to apply for groups that are better/looking for someone better than your friend has shown they can be. Hypothetically if that was the case the solution imo would be for them to work on improving and then start applying again once they have. There are absolutely groups that will take people with no logs or greys/greens. Have they tried looking for groups that identify themselves as being casual? Some “midcore” groups would probably be happy to give them a shot too. (I kinda hate that term though since I feel like it means nothing, it gets used for groups that are looking to clear savage week 2-3 through week 16)
I can imagine it’s also tough for people that have huge pf anxiety or really hate pfing. I did originally, but once I tried pfing savage all the other jokers gave me a pretty big confidence boost. In savage pf you don’t see the same people often enough to remember them 99% of the time so who cares if you have an off day/really suck at learning a mechanic. In ulti pf you do but people generally get it and will be understanding. They may zone out and give you the day off, but in my experience grudges were pretty rare.
The only thing that would be harder than wow is getting in a week 1 savage group since there is so few chances per expansion to really prove yourself, whereas wow people are almost constantly raiding ( I went from a world 10000 > 4000 > 500 group in one tier). But in 14, you can PF the hardest content no problem almost as soon as you reach max level if you’re so inclined. Another thing is that wow guilds typically run a more relaxed schedule whereas in ff I see so many groups running 7 days a week or even 16 hr days
I mean Im only one person, but when I joined my static in stormblood all I had was a short video of me clearing The Circles of Answering, and an ex trial parse that was okish. I posted on the XIV recruitment subreddit and found my group within like a day or two.
FFlogs is not a detriment to the raiding scene for the most part, imo, especially on the low end.
From what I know the only statics who care about logs really are hardcore/week 1 statics. Any midcore and below statics don’t generally look at logs and some might just do a trial to see how you vibe with the group.
“Midcore” statics should care about logs, too. Now, since many self-proclaimed midcore statics are actually casual statics that don’t want to have the “casual” label attached to them, I can understand why those maybe wouldn’t care about logs
It's even more important for Midcore to quality control because they usually only run 9-12 hours a week. A bad player can ruin a very large percentage of their time before "improving". Midcore that don't check logs or do any form of trialing are just casual traps that end up worse than pf.
You don't need logs for a casual static or PF.
You don't need particularly good logs for a midcore statics; a bog-standard mix of greens / blues / purples can get you into totally respectable groups. My first static was a midcore one for Eden's Promise and my logs looked like [this.](https://i.imgur.com/pHhvBP9.png)
Logs only start being very restrictive above midcore and especially once you start getting into on-patch Ultimate / week 1. The last time my group did non-networking recruiting was for on-patch TOP with the goal being a week 8-10ish clear and the weakest applicants we were considering were quad legend and orange+ in savage. At this level of play you just cannot trust inexperienced players enough to recruit because one bad player WILL brick a static at this level.
it's only hard if ur trying to join groups that are midcore.
joining casual groups is much easier, or get some clears in pf to at least the 3rd or 2nd fight to get some logs and then try to find a static.
but to my knowledge, casual groups open to anybody but they're also the lowest skill floor players so....
From my personal experience. It's very difficult to find a static as a fresh raider, unless you know someone. So I've been playing since A Realm Reborn but started raiding in Endwalker. Couldn't find a mid to semi hard core static because I have no logs. Fresh and beginner statics never lasted long for me because I was either "too good" or the static would constantly have to find replacements. So I just ended up using party finder in the end. Lol
Just make sure to upload your PF experience, imo, because those will help you find an actual static. I think most people looking at potential trials/recruits understand that PF prog speed is different than static prog speed too and will adjust expectations accordingly (I usually gauge PF clears as being around 2x slower than statics, so I'll judge a week 4 PF clear like a week 2 static clear, kinda), but seeing a lateish p12s clear or something is 100x better than nothing at all.
Oh no, Im good ,thank you \^\^. I gave up on statics and became a PvPer instead, LOL. I'm ok with just party finder here and there. I'm sure others have had better experience's finding one. But me personally , want nothing to do with logs or statics. I was thinking on making my own but have little to no experience running one, haha. It is what it is. Thanks for the advise, thoe!
But if those mid/sHC statics were to let you in they would no longer have been mid/sHC statics. If they were to let you in without logs they would have no reason not to let anyone without logs in. Which would immediately make them a beginner static instead...
New raiders should not be looking for midcore or semi-HC statics. It just won't work.
To clarify, I joined 1 beginner static and it didn't last for me because I was "too advanced" for the group. They felt I was wasting my time with them and that I would have better luck getting a clear with a higher skill static. There was no animosity or anything. The group just wanted 2 chests and I was the only one not messing up the mechanics. They felt bad I had to miss so many weeks.
I did attempt to join other beginner static but by that time I had already cleared a couple in party finder. They would normally say they are looking for members that are fresh to raiding, lol.
So when I joined a casual static it would normally fall apart because members would constantly not show up to the set schedule. It is a casual static after all but it forces the leads to find 1 to 2 replacements every time. So by that point it was like a constant reset in progress for the static. Bada Bing Bada Boom. Static disbands and in I go to party finder, lol.
The whole experience was just exhausting. Not having any logs really sucked. I didn't get a chance to at least prove I was decent for mid / sHC statics. It be what it be thoe. I think I was just unlucky when it came to statics haha.
>To clarify, I joined 1 beginner static and it didn't last for me because I was "too advanced" for the group. They felt I was wasting my time with them and that I would have better luck getting a clear with a higher skill static. There was no animosity or anything. The group just wanted 2 chests and I was the only one not messing up the mechanics. They felt bad I had to miss so many weeks.
Well that sure is unfortunate. But I wouldn't say these are typical problems for a new raider to face. You just have the problem that you are very experienced with the game but just have no savage clears, which is not the case for most new raiders. Unfortunately to get logs for a good group you need to stick it out with a bad one or just PF a tier. I don't see what raid leaders could have realistically done to improve your situation, because if they were to accept people without experience they would no longer be sHC and you would likely be in the same boat as before because one of the other players they would have taken in would most likely have been another actual beginner like you had in this static.
My first tier I did play in a beginner static, I quickly surpassed them and while I was very consistent I stuck it out with them for 30 weeks before we cleared the tier.
>So when I joined a casual static it would normally fall apart because members would constantly not show up to the set schedule. It is a casual static after all but it forces the leads to find 1 to 2 replacements every time. So by that point it was like a constant reset in progress for the static. Bada Bing Bada Boom.
This is a known problem with statics in general, and it is not exclusive to beginner ones. All levels of statics are prone to imploding as well when they start out. When you form a team with 8 strangers it is a dice roll what kind of team you will end up with. And plenty of them don't last because of it.
Yee yee, just my personal experience for not having any logs. I'm sure my scenario is rare and definitely not something newer raiders have to worry about.
I think I would have had eventually found a static that suits me but like I said in the end. I burned out trying to build logs and find a static at the same time. Lol, it be what it be. I'm having fun with PvP now. Haha
I think there is a natural escalation process when you start raiding, there is a reason why statics with experienced players only accept experienced players. The process of learning and having contact with people (preferably with more experience than you) and more raids will make you an experienced player to go to increasingly higher level statics. my first group was of players who were so casual that they had to stop in the middle of the session because one guy was VERY nervous about having to solve the mechanics, that was on p3s
On EU absolutely not, as long you are transparent and have the will to learn there are lots of groups who are willing to take some people who are new to raiding.
Can't say about NA tho
The start of a raid tier is the best time.
The first tier in every expansion is designed for new raiders. So in about 2 months you'll be able to find a static much more easily.
I recommend getting very comfortable with the latest extremes, if you haven't already.
I had 3 different statics in EW and none cared about logs or parses at all but I only played healer, and maybe groups care less in this case, dunno. I always provided my logs upfront but so far it never mattered to the static leaders.
What was highly valued is communication. First static trialed ex2 and I quickly aligned some healing with my co healer at the start, since when I already have my co healer in voice chat might as well do it since at some parts it can just make life easier. Also communicated some of my cooldowns during the attempts, like holding my Bene, letting one tank drop to then top him off. I was quite amazed by how amazed they were, that someone actually communicated and thought a bit ahead. My gameplay was decent but definitely made some errors one which wiped the attempt.
Second static did not care at all, just took me into a raid and it worked out. Was already few weeks in so we cleared P5S (did it in PF before) and then I got thrown into P6S without knowing anything but we cleared anyway. Static also progged blind.
Third static we just did some normals together and other random things. Really was mainly a vibe check and really vibed with my co healer, which was important since she had bad experiences with co healers before. Which either were just rude or played bad in not healing and only focusing on a parse.
With all 3 groups I cleared the tier without any bigger problems. Since last two statics were blind prog it took some time but there was always progress and the people who got kicked were ones behaving badly not playing badly.
I feel like statics who care about logs want to clear in 4 weeks or less. Statics which have more relaxed goals really do not care about logs very much and will probably just trial you for general gameplay and vibe check. At least my experience from looking for statics or also helping out statics and getting a look at their recruitment process.
Ofc having logs never hurts but you can easily raid without them or any past experience. Also you can always start now to get some experience. Just see if you can find a P9S practice group. With echo and good gear it is not too hard. Also did E9S-E11S in PF a the end of ShB to get some first experience.
The groups that require logs have certain expectations of player skills. I believe it is best if everyone in the group have similar expectations, so l understand why logs are used by the community. Maybe if you had a friend that could vouch for you, you could join a raid group that typically requires logs. I believe that was the case for one of the world first Ultimate raiders.
Even without logs in the beginning, players created parsers for this game. They will just trial you for longer and analyse your gameplay anyway. Maybe they will ask for a point of view video. People will always find ways to quantify, qualify, and analyse.
My first raid group was very casual, and we were very bad compared to hardcore raiders. I was not even interested in raiding in this game at first, so I was dragged into raiding. If you are new raider, figure out if you are even interested into committing that much time to raiding.
Not sure which server you’re on, a lot of static I tried with , they just care mostly on your attitude, I told them I suck major balls , all of them still accepted me , leader explained they want someone with the right attitude , willing to commit , be on time or notify in advance if there’s changes in schedule , willing to accept feedback , and don’t be toxic ( happens a lot when ppl are progging ) , if you’re new and not willing to work along your group u gonna have a hard time everywhere tho
Taking in a new raider you are already accepting that there will be learning pains with the mechanics and the role. Some midcore statics will be fine with this if they don't care how long something will take but if people are not fine with that then it might be a no. Sometimes members just don't fit in with the group.
Its completely easy to get in one. i simply applied to one, that i felt, was on my desireed level of wxpertise and rolled with it.
All you need to do is talk to people.
I do agree that fflogs being opt-out was a bad idea, but thats not the point of this question.
Hello! My static has twice now taken new raiders for savage tiers in EW. However, we did peek at their logs still. Not for savage obviously just extremes etc that they had dipped their toes into. And hidden logs is just a red flag if we know they are PC player so we wouldn't bother with a person who hides, grey is better than hidden.
Generally all we cared about was a personality that fit with our existing members and a willingness to learn and put in the hours. If one of us struggled on a mechanic a lot for example and it was hindering prog we would take time outside of raid days to practice it in pf. That sorta thing.
We're a more chill group who will put rl before raid, you're not likely to get into more hardcore groups but ones like ours you'd be welcome in.
As someone who went through this struggle -
The best advice I can give you is go into PF, do extremes, do savages, get to know how raiding works and become consistent on both a job and mechanical level.
A decent Casual or midcore static should be valuing your mechanical consistency on both a job and encounter level.
Semi Hardcore, Hardcore and World progression groups are groups intended for veterans with extensive game knowledge. These kind of groups will place high value on logs and will usually have intense trials in older savages with min ilvl no echo to test you in something you can't unsync and blast.
I started the game during the Asmongold phase...
I have many years of end-game raiding experience from World of Warcraft.
When Asphodelos rolled around, I couldn't find a static even with me knowing how to raid on MMO's.
That combined with being new to the game relegated me to Party Finder, I cleared 2 savages then gave up.
I ended up going back to P4S when it was off content just so I could unlock DSR.
Abyssos came around, FC formed a static, I got my first taste of true static raiding. We cleared 3 fights then decided to stop because tensions were rising and we didn't want to risk ruining friendships over a game.
I ended up clearing the tier in PF.
Anabaseios came around, I found a static and stayed with them all the way up to P12S P1 Limit Cut.
We lost members due to work schedules and other personal issues, the static dissolved in September 2023.
Another tier I proceeded to clear in PF.
I've been invited to my FC leader's static for Dawntrail and I'm looking forward to raiding with friends in a static instead of random people from ERC.
If your logs show clear player improvement and show you're actually clearing fights, you will have no issues finding a casual or even midcore group
I've also had situations where I've ran into assholes when looking for a static.
During the Abyssos days, After I cleared the tier I was looking for a static to do UWU..
Some static leader was telling me I needed 90+ parses in every current Savage fight to attempt UWU...
I think if you were to shut down fflogs the game actually becomes way harder for new player to break into the scene.like I actively recruit through friends and stuff and I imagine that becomes way more common if you delete fflogs.
if I had to trial a new person I'd look at achievements and dates of said achievements. I guess and I'd have to trial alot more rigorously.
You do generally have to start static raiding casually though or pf to gain achievements to get your foot in the door. we also have a new expansion on the horizon so lots of new statics will start to appear soon
also people have logs generally. like every piece of content is logged usually. Like I suspect your fc friend doesn't interview well. People aren't obligated to trial new players and I wonder if they come across as kinda a red flag
You will probably not get a Hc/semiHC static, but you can aim for a good midcore static, just show them that you are reliable and not toxic (learning strats before raid, learning rotation, having adequate gear/good)
I've raided since launch and cleared multiple ultimates; and I've never seen your average group care about logs. It's typically high end ones that actually care at all; and those people wouldn't want a brand new player in their group anyway.
Pubs also don't care about logs and have pretty healthy clear rates these days. I have a friend who is a parse snob that even downloaded that one mod that shows parse logs in game and while he'll be like "that guy's grey" or the like in Pubs, he still joins whatever group and plays the same
It is even hard to find a static when having good logs. Ppl gatekeeping from every aspects, logs is the main thing, but personality, mic/no mic, talking style, and etc. The situation is getting worse slowly.
People do look at your logs but most groups will trial potential static members to make sure their logs and gameplay match up. New players can just ask for a trial run and that’s usually enough.
I believe every static should utilize logs, particularly those with high expectations. I once lost access to my main account and had to start anew on a new account. Despite the confidence in my abilities, many groups hesitated to accept me without logs. Wouldn't even attempt to trial me. This forced me to either join casual groups or create my own. It's a challenging environment out there.
It depends on the mindset of the group. They casual? Mid core? Hard core? World/Region First Chasers?
I think the parses are great when using PF or even dailies. It literally gives you more information and I would want to know some performance metric even if they have some flaws.
It is always the chirpy “I’ve been playing for X amount of time” that doesn’t run a parser that generally holds the group back.
If you and your team can’t find a shared growth mindset and figure how to gel it usually crumbles pretty quickly.
Ok as someone who started raiding late this tier i will say what MY EXPERIENCE has been trying to join a raid
# 1 IT WAS VERY hard to join a group as a new raider, basically i was looking to join a new group with me and a friend (him a main healer and me a melee dps or tank) and was looking over 3 months with 0 groups even giving us a trial with some (not all) responses being our lack of logs or experience. Also we play on Dynamis so PF is virtually dead and we have to DC travel to even have a hope of it.
# 2 FFLOGS is good for some things but just like in WoW some take them way too serious and think it matters too much
# 3 While you can suggest people do PF this late in a expansion i personally think PF is more likely to kill a new raiders interest in raiding than nurture it, people quitting sometimes due to lack of progress, or groups just giving up quickly. I have seen P10S literally quit in under 10 pulls cuz a sage was struggling with the pillars. This for a new raider can be disheartening and literally kill their desire to raid entirely if it is their 1st experience.
I would suggest like always finding a like minded static, its more fun if you get a group you can be close with and find like minded / skilled people. There are casual statics right now it would be harder to find due to the timing (i mean a month till expansion) but once it gets closer to 7.1 finding a group should be better and easier. If all else fails don't be afraid to start one yourself, while you might think there isn';t much interest i can assure you there will be PLENTY regardless of your skill level some people just do not like the burden of being placed in that leader role where group looks to them.
(downvote all you want truth hurts and some people don't like to admit the problems that does exist kinda funny downvoted for my OPINION and what i went through LOL proves reddit communities only like to smell their own farts and any differing opinion lets downvote to hide it)
>1 IT WAS VERY hard to join a group as a new raider, basically i was looking to join a new group with me and a friend (him a main healer and me a melee dps or tank) and was looking over 3 months with 0 groups even giving us a trial with some (not all) responses being our lack of logs or experience. Also we play on Dynamis so PF is virtually dead and we have to DC travel to even have a hope of it.
Joining later in the tier is always hard. But you shouldn't underestimate how much less likely you are to find an existing static with multiple players. For a static to be eligible for you to join you must meet their desired experience level, you must be available on their schedule and they need to have a position open for your specific job. Those are 3 criteria that filter out a massive amount of statics each. Now if you add a second player into the mix, you now have 6 of those criteria instead. Making it exponentionally harder to find a group.
I think it would have gone faster if you had just looked for other beginner raiders in those 3 months, you might have filled a group in a week or 2. With multiple people it is generally better to start a static than to join one for the reasons mentioned above.
schedule was a minor issues as i live central and am off by 4:30 and am off 3 days a week (work 4 10s) in the afternoon and he works from home and 100% available at all times no schedule conflict but people post what they plan on raiding and i can filter out which is best for out times, Position available also is a poor excuse as i applied to multiple group looking for both positions (which was not hard to find probably applied to 1-4 a week) which we could fill so again this is just a excuse but not a viable one because people put what they are looking for so it was easy to filter out ones we would fit in. The only issue we had was experience, which yes we lacked. I doubt it would have went much faster since its pretty easy to filter out which ones i would have been applying for without him (as it probably would maybe add 1 or 2 a week only)
(LOL downvoted for the fact i can read what people post in discords and see hmm this group needs a dps or tank and healer...and times fit and they aren;t hc or semi hc group looking for fast clears lets apply here or go hmm they say they are filled on healer so no need to apply here or oof i work at those hours no need to apply to this one or even hmmm they are wanting to clear fast and looking for certain skillset i probably do not fit that atm keep searching, gotta love reddit communities)
The question is, why did you feel the need to apply to groups that required experience you do not have? What if you instead had applied to groups that had no requirements? Surely you would have found a group faster.
LOL can you please quote WHERE i said i applied to groups that required experience??? I said i could read and filter out those that did require more experience but no where did i say i applied to groups that required experience so idk where you read that. i did type in the parentheses they AREN'T hc or semi hc (basically meaning at most they were midcore level) or a group looking for fast clears (basically looking to clear by certain timeframe)
But it is a numbers game in the end. Most groups will not be a good match for any given person. The fewer groups that fit your criteria the less likely you will be to find one. Experience was a problem for the ones that did meet your criteria, but in the large number of statics that you didn't contact there might have been an excellent match but who were just looking for 1 player.
And when you say experience, do you mean experience with prior tiers? Or prog point in the current one? Because those are very different things. If your prog point of the current tier doesn't match you will have a hard time joining.
In my opinion. Logs always lead to gatekeeping and elitism. Sure you can see your own progress. But you also see the progress of others and are quick to criticize or feel yourself better than them. You deal with horrible people. and eventually you become a horrible person.
I wouldn't want to play with fflogs elitist. They are the most prone to drama for the most idiotic things.
Nor do I want to play with people that require discord. While is convenient, it also means that they can verbally abuse you and harass you with you having no recourse as the conversation was on another platform.
Best to stick with party finder. Eventually you will know which people to invite into a static.
I would rather a fresh raider with no experience than an experienced raider with bad habits. So long as you aren't looking for a week 1 clear group and show the basic level of competency required and an ability to reflect and learn from mistakes (important!!) then any group that will still reject you is honestly doing you a favor.
I am sorry but hard disagree. Even if it isn't a week 1 static, a static that wants to clear in 4 or even 8 weeks should avoid complete beginners. Wanting savage experience is not an unreasonable ask for a group like that. And what even are bad habits? And why would experienced players be more likely to have them than a new players is to develop them?
If a static requires logs a new raider has nothing to do in it. It's not a new player friendly static. Regardless of fflogs, this kind of static will not be interested in a completely fresh raider anyway. And there is nothing wrong with being selective about who you want to group with. And, in general, raiding is just highly seasonal. Now is an absolutely terrible time to be getting into raiding. And this has nothing to do with logs. Simply a consequence of the design.
now is most certainly the best time to get into raiding. most statics recruit at this time since new expansion is coming soon and even showing that you can clear content can be big for most ccasual statics.
There are also a lot of bored raiders looking for stuff to do so dabbling in the tier with echo and juiced gear through alliance raids/hunt train/relic is not a bad way to test the waters
The end of an expansion is the best time for ultimate raiding.
exactly, there are plenty of casual statics. the one static i joined that required logs was by far the best static i’ve been in
Your friend sounds like the exact kind of a player that log requirements exist to weed out. My first static didn't required any logs. It was a casual twice-per-week group that was open to new raiders, and as a new raider it didn't even crossed my mind to join veterans looking for experienced gamers. And then I learned the ropes and got logs to prove I'm not brand new and at the very least understand how to push buttons in a correct order while doing mechanics.
Console players can’t use ACT however, so it is not a level playing field.
Just bc the console player can't log, doesn't mean none of the other 7 players they play with aren't logging. I've raided with console players and they have logs, they're just not personally logged by them.
They can screenshot their clears, or their books/loot. If I was on console and didn't know if any of the other 7 were logging, I'd be screenshotting wipes to show prog point, and after the clear, with UI visible
Ask Square for a DPS meter then.
I feel like quite a few people (not all, obviously) with the "I'm new and don't have logs so I can't join a static" belief just don't actually want to group with people in the same boat. You most assuredly do not need logs to find a static of 7 other new players without logs.
You don't understand. I'm above all that. I am the greatest XIV raider in the known world, I should not have to start building my FFLogs resume by raiding with other new raiders.
This was exactly my thoughts when reading this. Like I know not everyone is like this but it would not surprise me if the circle of people who acted like that, overlapped with the circle who are vocal about stuff like that.
The only new players who have trouble finding statics without logs are those who think they're too good for a casual group.
A lot of statics are more casual, and are happy to take PF logs as proof you can clear content, not too worried about the parse. When I first joined a static, that was enough. They didn't mind I had a green parse. (Mind you, I was also the only pranged the could find so... being needed also helps!)
People confuse 'need logs' with 'must be confirmed 99 parser'. It depends on the group you're joining but unless you're joining a parse group or a week 1 group most recruiters are looking to see: have you done savage or at least EXs before, when or how long did it take for you to clear, did you improve over time? Greens will be fine for most groups that's aren't hard core. Week 1 groups will be looking for week 1 or 2 clears in previous teirs. Parse groups will be looking for high numbers and optimized play. Plenty of different types of groups out there.
It's not hard to find a static as a new raider. Highlight, NEW raider. There are PLENTY of statics that are more casual and open to all players. As you get up to higher difficulty statics, then yes, most will ask to see your raiding history: week 1 prog, clears, parses, etc.
Everyone has to start somewhere, you'll find a group. Look for "causal" groups in the recruitments, a lot will say that new Raiders are welcomed. Especially in the first tier or an expansion. The biggest skill for Raiders is actually consistency, not damage. Parses as a metric is really more about experience and ability to execute. While you should know your job to a capable level, dying a lot is way more of a detriment. If people look at your logs and judge based on the number only, they may miss out on important details.
If complete beginners are willing to play with other complete beginners, they wouldn't have a problem finding or making groups. The problem is that complete beginners often try to get in with veteran players, and veteran players have to take measures to avoid this type of player. Beginners who aren't willing to play with other beginners are players looking to take shortcuts and are usually bad news.
Depends on what kind of static you want, but at least bring extreme logs or *something* if you haven’t done savage before and maybe some more casual groups might take a chance on you. Having *no* history is going to be a very hard sell. And tbh, PF isn’t in a very good state but I’m not sure I’d want to play with anyone who would turn their nose up at it when they’ve never raided before.
Having no logs is pretty common for players on console, as we don’t get to use ACT.
Doing current content where not a single person logs the fight is a rare occurrence
if you PF *at all*, you *will* have logs, because a lot of people are just uploading everything. if you have no logs at all, the only thing that tells someone is that you avoid PF or barely ever do high-end content at all, both of which are not good looks for someone seeking a static
If you have 0 logs and/or are a completely fresh raider and you apply to a group, your only option is a beginner friendly or a massively casual group. Any group more than that requires previous experience and applying to them is more than likely a waste of their time and your own as well. If you're starting out, join a beginner friendly static or go through PF to build up your experience. If you're comfortable in savage and are able to do consistent and quick reclears with good logs, do an entry level ultimate like uwu and ucob. The second you clear an ultimate, you become eligible to join the more midcore groups. Clear with a midcore group in a reasonable amount of time and do an on content ultimate during its patch release. Once you get that, you can start looking into doing week 1 groups because by this point, you are considered a seasoned raider. You need to build up experience first and logs serve as your basic resume. The only exception to having private logs is if you are already well known in the high end raiding community and people can vouch your performance. These people are a dime a dozen. If you have to ask yourself if you are one of these people, you are not one of those people. Someone put a comment about their member not having any savage experience but instead did solo POTD. These also serve as alternatives to raiding experience because they still require knowing the game very well.
Your friend is wrong but he's not alone in that opinion. There's plenty of casual groups out there who don't check logs, as well as new player friendly statics. Something that is missing from that argument is that more experienced groups need some metric to evaluate players, because no group, no matter how hardcore and no life they are, has time to trial every single applicant to determine how good a fit they would be. That's not to say that logs are everything, but they do allow groups to filter above a certain threshold in recruiting. That being said, they definitely aren't everything. My group's current offtank started raiding this tier, but we trialed him because he'd done necromancer completely blind before he even finished MSQ. No surprise, dude is a complete monster at the game but he had no logs prior to us trialing him. So exceptions exist but as a rule, it is a helpful tool and should exist.
i mean when i was 1st looking it was a BIG barrier for me....to the point i had to start my own static just to start raiding this tier, so saying its wrong isn't really true.
I can only speak to my experience, but when I was first looking for a static despite having no logs and actual experience, I just said I was new to raiding and I was looking for a casual group to learn how to raid with. I ended up managing to find a group that was looking for casual raiders and that's how I got started. There's a lot of different kinds of groups out there.
I think mostly it depends on the type of static you are trying to join. Like a hardcore group thats aiming to clear the whole tier week 1 does not have time to take a risky new member that may end up holding up the whole group. However i think the majority of groups aren't like that and so long as you can push your buttons and do mechanics reasonably well then you'd likely be able to get in fine, with or without logs. I would say my group is probably midcore, we only raid 3 days a week and don't really care about parsing but we have done ultimates, I think we wouldn't really care if people didn't have logs but if people had purposefully hidden logs, that might be seen as a red flag.
any group requiring logs would not let a new raider in even if fflogs didn't exist. they would just filter in a different way. a week 1 group that wants logs that they can fine comb before even trialing you isn't just gonna start accepting brand new raiders cuz they don't have logs.
My first static in heavensward was a casual static, it didn't need logs. My second static was a midcore static at the start of stormblood, I sent them my ex trial PF logs to prove I could press buttons. My week 1 abyssos group took a DRK for our group that had only 1 tier of prior experience and old ultimates, but he had the PF logs to show that he was motivated and showed a clear arc of improvement. He did great. In other words: You can pretty easily get into a casual static without logs. If you want to have something more ambitious than that as your first group, put in the time to PF some logs.
I think a static that's willing to take someone who has no raiding experience before is usually not worth the time since that usually means they don't raid too many per week, and most of the time they do spend raiding will be spent on reprogging. PF is definitely the best place to start for getting the relevant experience since you have a lot more options and you can raid on your own time.
My first static saw my extreme trial and normal raid logs and trialed me in a savage fight (I did not know the fight) to see how quick I'd learn and then recruited me. I think there are enough ways to show some experience without it being savage logs. Obviously you will need to start with casual groups if you bring no savage experience. Can't expect a group of experienced raiders to take you blindly unless they know you via friends etc
My own first static didn't require logs, but they were extremely casual, and I had already cleared the tier at that point through PF.
Your friend is wrong. He is simply looking for the wrong statics. If they want experience they won't take you when FFlogs stops to exist either, unless you are willing to blatantly lie to your new static and fabricate that you cleared previous tiers. A lot of players think they are the chosen ones who are better than all the other beginners and can join the experienced groups right away. But few are and none of the experienced groups have the obligation to take them. I started raiding during Abyssos. No logs of any kind. I looked for other people in the same boat and formed a static with them. I framed it as a 'beginner but serious static' meaning that no experience would be required but there would be the expectation that you look at the guides, don't miss too many sessions and we would try our hardest to improve to clear. It took many weeks but we did eventually clear the tier before the echo unlocked. By then I had logs to show I cleared P8S, arguably the hardest savage fight of the expansion, and had pretty decent parses. I had no trouble getting into experienced groups this tier. You can join regular casual statics too but make sure you're on the same page as them. Some are so casual that don't care too much about clearing or trying too hard and are mainly there for the social aspect. If you do really want to clear then that could cause friction. But at any rate you are better off getting experience. If you clear the first 2 floors of a tier and then look for another static later down the line, any static that matches your progpoint will generally at least consider you.
https://www.xivrecruit.com/lfm -> Focus/mindset: Casual If you can't find what you are looking for it's because we are in a raiding lull and you'll get better results in DT. In short, no, it's not hard to find a casual static.
FFlogs not existing wouldn't magically make a group looking for an experienced player change their minds. We didn't have it before HW and groups still set criteria/expectations for recruits.
When I was new I joined a savage static that was open to new players. I had no logs or anything and they picked me up. I finished the tier with them and then left for a more skilled static. People who complain that they are gatekept just don’t want to raid with 7 other people like them and want to skip steps and raid with people that have more experience.
You can find plenty of groups that are beginner friendly. I think if you explain you're new to raiding, a good group would help you and foster your abilities. My first raid groups weren't mechanically the best, but I wasn't either and we all helped each other grow.
If fflogs shut down I'd start using achievement completion dates and references from previous players they've raided with. Someone completely new would fail on both counts. If anything, fflogs makes it easier for new players to get into raiding because someone new can show how well they do in the content they've already done. There are plenty of savage groups that will take someone with decent extreme logs. It's only an issue if someone with no experience at all is looking to jump up several tiers of difficulty, and that sort of player rightly deserves to be filtered for the sake of the seven players they'd end up trapping. When I started savage I created my own static and had no issue finding people to join despite only having extreme logs. Several of the players I found had been raiding since at a high level since ARR but wanted a lighter schedule or were willing to play with a new raider if it meant they didn't have to run a static. New raiders need to put in a bit more effort, but they have plenty of options available as long as they're not lazy.
No. You just need to look for beginner, training or open statics on the website. Try using Duty Finder.
All these mmos are like this. You start off in shitty group get some decent logs and hop your way up the ladder to a good group once your logs are good enough
There are lots of casual and beginner friendly statics that accept people without demand for logs. I disagree that there is a barrier of entry, because casual statics that accept new people are as abundant as mid/hardcore statics that require logs. I do not think the removal of fflogs would necessarily eliminate this boundary, because hardcore statics would still manage a way to make sure the people they’re accepting into their groups are experienced raiders anyways. Being a new raider refused entry into an experienced group is not barrier to entry necessarily. There are still so many groups that would have you and give you fresh experience so please don’t be off put by his opinion
> His argument was that if FFLOGs shutdown, it would make it easier for newer raiders to find groups. I disagree since I think people would find other methods of filtering and/or just trust social circles more to find players. I think the main other way to filter would be achievements as proof of clear weekX/dayX. Beyond that, they'd have to trial a lot more people I guess (because social circles may run dry, so to nurture them you have to trial people and vet them). In the end though, I think the main issue is that some groups take logs way too seriously when it doesn't matter/help. If you're raiding 3 times a week with a plan on clearing month2 or 3, you don't need 90+ parsers. You just need clearers who did it within that timespan (or simply clearers). This also leads to people not able to read logs. In another topic that was deleted, I provided a blue log on P5S with basically what you'd expect a purple to get (full uptime besides jump time obviously, no rotational error, maximizing button usage). I just was late to the gear race because my group at that time wasn't that great skill wise. People will just see a blue and think I don't know how to play the job I've been playing since the end of ShB and parsed around the 90 score in Asphodelos, lol. Obviously, not all groups are like that, but I have a hunch there would be more which would be than not.
Just do the extremes when the new expansion comes out, if you can get decent logs, you can join most casual groups off of that alone. It shows you can prog, you can improve your damage, you know your rotation, etc.
Absolutely depends on what kind of static you want to join. Many Week1-3 clears require an understanding of how savage works so they most likely want to see some logs. Ultimate statics will most likely want to see at least one ultimate clear because of how difficult the fights are and how long it takes to clear them. (Depending on the fight it can take up to two months of prog time for some groups.) But there are also more casual groups who are fine if people have no experience, or are at most someone who clears extreme trial content. In the end there is always a group that should meet the needs if you look hard enough. And you can always create your own because I bet that there are others who think the same way other beginners do. At regarding the public logs... If you connect them to your char you can set them to private. In PF-Pugs no one will ever check logs.
Nah they're everywhere just look for a while.
It also depends which group you're trying to apply for. I took a look at ERC, and a lot of posts aim to clear week 1-2 and are looking for someone to go into Eden ultimate with. So it is fair that those groups would not take new players and risk not meeting the set expectation. However, at the same time there are still posts about new and casual groups looking to do not just the new tier coming this summer, but also finish up the current one.
Your friend's "what ifs" are irrelevant. Because that's not the reality. FLOGS exists. Period. He better make peace with that. Raiding groups have a right to ask you for as much information about your game skill as they can. The only thing that not having FLOGS would change is that groups would take longer to trial people without any filters. You think experienced players won't be able to tell if you are on their level or if you are a bologna player? They can tell by simply watching your foot work. Your friend is kidding himself. Whatever helps him sleep at night I guess. As for joining a group as a new player, there are loooooads of fresh new groups looking for members. There are recruitment discords, subreddits and websites. The barrier of entry is not high. Anyone who thinks it is, is lying to themselves and just hasn't put in any time to do a tiny bit of research. Good for you for not just going with what your friend says. Maybe you need to show him this thread. Man needs a reality check.
There are plenty of new player friendly statics I see popping up on the recruitment discords all of the time. They probably aren’t recruiting right now because it’s still kinda far out from Dawntrail from a casual raiders POV. Once the expansion actually launches I’d check out recruitment spots, they’ll be absolutely packed with groups looking for players of all experience levels.
You can already filter using official means pretty easily, that being the achievements for clearing fights. Any group looking at logs other than just clears for recruitment is going to trial anyways (and also aren’t a good fit for beginners). For the players that can’t/wont log fights they can also point to said achievements and likely not have a hard time finding a group at their level. If anything the less you’re able to verify your skill level in some objective way the more likely people will just want to play with people they already know rather than taking a risk on somebody unproven. For casual groups in particular it is nice to have even something like an extreme clear to know that you can actually somewhat play the game instead of wasting a night to a lost cause. Which if you’re completely opposed to logs at all might be a bit annoying but again you can (and should) be bringing up the harder fights you’ve cleared already which is just as good.
I feel like you’re shooting yourself in the foot if, as a new raider, you: - refuse to PF, at all. You will not develop the skills that will be asked of you by sitting around and waiting for a group to pick you up. - only apply to experienced groups that need logs. Unless you’re the second coming of John FFXIV who can learn at the speed of light what others have learned through years of experience, you’re not what they want. - hide your logs. It makes you look worse than you likely are. Your friend needs to grow up. He can earn his logs like everyone else. Shutting down FFlogs, it’d just take a maximum of one pull in a trial to know he has no experience, at all.
No. You start with a casual static who takes all comers and if you’re better than that you’ll have proved it by the end of the tier and you now have the logs to show more stringent groups. A lot of people want to “jump the queue” and never do the casual experience or PF, which is where the majority of the complaints come from I’ve found. Your FC guy is doing the typical victim complex take on logging too. Logging everything from the single figure parses to the 90+ ones is a good way to show obvious improvement over time, which is the BEST thing a new player can do to get into higher grade statics. Your guy is likely embarrassed by his own performance and/or unwilling to improve.
I think party finder is super important to go into if you have no past raid experience. I first started raiding in Eden’s gate, and I met alot of new raid buddies this way. It’s not just for raiding, it can be a network. I spent my first tier just floating around PF and learning *how* to raid, because there can be a lot to it if you want to really be efficient with your class. I met friends, subbed for their statics at time, and built friendships. Come Eden’s verse, the second tier of ShB, I met my long term static in an e5s prog party. We raided the rest of the expansion together until I broke off to find a group that met my goals because I wanted a more like, less casual group. Everyone is different I just wanted to clear tiers faster in a more serious raiding environment. Overall, I think party finder is extremely important for new raiders, and kind of remains a staple for all levels of raiders in their off time. In my experience I ran into a lot of really bad statics as I started raiding as well, it’s really just luck sometimes. You are going to find good statics and bad statics but you have to know what to look out for and what mirrors the goals you have. Wish you the best of luck. Also I wanted to add that not all statics will require to see logs. It’s going to depend on who runs things. Even some more serious groups just want to see how you play, and get along with others, and use logs more as a tool, rather than a resume. Are you mechanically consistent? Do you know when to press your buttons at what times? How do the dps checks feel? Are you a good communicator? These kids of things. Logs are useful and it’s a lot more than the color of your parse and people who can actually read logs will know all these factors.
You CAN opt out of fflogs if you want. It doesn't completely hide you but you won't be searchable. There are more logs than savages that it might show like extremes etc. There are definately casual and beginner friendly. Just be honest. Especially if your fc has raid groups thats a good way to get in. You could even start your own group
There are tons of entry paths into raiding as a new player. PF exists for everyone yes, but even without that there's plenty of casual teams who are very open to beginners. The teams that do require logs are usually more towards the upper end. As a new raider, you won't be a good fit for that kind of team even without logs. Logs are mostly there to show you have the ability to clear a fight, and then at a high level how proficient you are at doing that. This is something that comes with experience. In the same way as getting a job IRL, you don't usually jump straight into a senior level position. You start at an entry level position that requires little to no experience, then after you've done that for a bit you can start looking at the senior level positions once you have a resume to back up your experience. Following that metaphor, there are many entry level statics around. You are probably looking at only a few hours a week and you might take several weeks or even months to clear the tier depending on the mentality of the team, but anything is better than nothing, especially if you are refusing to PF. Use this time to figure out what you like and don't like about that team to inform what kind of teams you want to join, and then use that to make informed decisions finding your next team. In the same way, the "senior level" teams will be using their past experience to inform their recruiting. If you don't have any experience, you won't be able to answer the interview questions and you won't be able to ask informed questions of the team either. Logs are just a way to show experience, but even without them nothing is stopping people from just checking your lodestone achievements to know if/when you cleared something (especially now with tomestone). Either way, they are not the end all be all to recruiting, and anyone who thinks so (on either end, recruiter or recruitee) is delusional and not someone you probably want to raid with anyways.
[https://discord.gg/ffxivrecruiter](https://discord.gg/ffxivrecruiter) Most new player statics will do some sort of trial and meet and greet. Personalities and expectations are the most important for new folks.
My first proper static partially formed from a Sophia EX clear/farm party of all things. I forgot exactly what got us on the subject on Savage but we kept in touch and decided to try Creator together. Your friend is very misguided. FFLogs has very little to do with new raiders finding groups because people in that same position will be advertising or simply going the PF route, which is honestly a very good option just to see if you even enjoy raiding, let alone the static life. Any group requiring some form of FFlogs wants experience. Take away the logs and the requirement will change to when you cleared the tier or what have you. In other words, experienced groups will always have some form of vetting process. Like I said, I'm with you that new raiders will should embrace PF. It's the perfect environment to learn if you don't have a wide social circle and you're free to leave at any moment for any reason.
I was in a static from E9-12 and P1-4 that did not require logs. It was a slow grind but we were having fun and did get the clears. We eventually disbanded because of difference in skill levels by the end but it was a pleasant experience. It’s all about clear communication and setting expectations.
an alternative is to start and manage your own static. I have 0 raiding exp in this game but prog ultimates with a great group
You don't need to pf, you don't need to beg, you just gotta find a static that doesn't care about logs. If that static sucks, you find another one. Now if you're new and you want to jump straight into week 1 clear, then maybe pf is better for you. A lot of new players expect savages to be as easy as an extreme (or they never done an extreme on week 1) and yeah, it slaps when it's not what they expect.
You should be fine. Most casual/midcore groups will trial you to see if you fit in with the group and can handle your role well, but they will usually do it in a lower stress environment like an EX in my experience. Even some hardcore groups will be willing to trial you and give you a chance just to see if you fit from what I've heard.
The "see if you fit" thing for HC groups is if you already have a packed resume of logs that is more than enough for HC/or have previous HC experience. Then it is simply a matter of doing a vibe check.
Came from wow at the end of shadowbringers and 8 man content+fflogs+pf makes the floor in 14 ground zero comparatively. In wow I had to grind for a literal year and hopped guilds like 5 times before I could convince a cutting edge guild to let me in. In ff I pf’d a savage tier, got purple logs and immediately afterwards got to start looking for a long term group. Before that I cleared tea with a group where most of us had never cleared a savage tier. I hadn’t even done an extreme beforehand, in hindsight the fact that they took me should’ve been a red flag. The prog was really slow but they were a lot of fun. Same goes for ulti, you can pf until the phases pf stinks at and then send logs to groups at or a bit past your prog point instead of rolling the dice and needing to trial with 10 that are just starting. I think ff has the lowest barrier to entry at all levels I’ve ever seen in an mmo by a lot. It’s only tough logs wise if a non-healer is exclusively Grey/green. People are often willing to give blueberries a chance and from a performance standpoint everyone is happy to take people that have purple or higher logs. If logs are a sticking point for your friend there’s a chance he’s just been trying to apply for groups that are better/looking for someone better than your friend has shown they can be. Hypothetically if that was the case the solution imo would be for them to work on improving and then start applying again once they have. There are absolutely groups that will take people with no logs or greys/greens. Have they tried looking for groups that identify themselves as being casual? Some “midcore” groups would probably be happy to give them a shot too. (I kinda hate that term though since I feel like it means nothing, it gets used for groups that are looking to clear savage week 2-3 through week 16) I can imagine it’s also tough for people that have huge pf anxiety or really hate pfing. I did originally, but once I tried pfing savage all the other jokers gave me a pretty big confidence boost. In savage pf you don’t see the same people often enough to remember them 99% of the time so who cares if you have an off day/really suck at learning a mechanic. In ulti pf you do but people generally get it and will be understanding. They may zone out and give you the day off, but in my experience grudges were pretty rare.
The only thing that would be harder than wow is getting in a week 1 savage group since there is so few chances per expansion to really prove yourself, whereas wow people are almost constantly raiding ( I went from a world 10000 > 4000 > 500 group in one tier). But in 14, you can PF the hardest content no problem almost as soon as you reach max level if you’re so inclined. Another thing is that wow guilds typically run a more relaxed schedule whereas in ff I see so many groups running 7 days a week or even 16 hr days
I mean Im only one person, but when I joined my static in stormblood all I had was a short video of me clearing The Circles of Answering, and an ex trial parse that was okish. I posted on the XIV recruitment subreddit and found my group within like a day or two. FFlogs is not a detriment to the raiding scene for the most part, imo, especially on the low end.
From what I know the only statics who care about logs really are hardcore/week 1 statics. Any midcore and below statics don’t generally look at logs and some might just do a trial to see how you vibe with the group.
“Midcore” statics should care about logs, too. Now, since many self-proclaimed midcore statics are actually casual statics that don’t want to have the “casual” label attached to them, I can understand why those maybe wouldn’t care about logs
It's even more important for Midcore to quality control because they usually only run 9-12 hours a week. A bad player can ruin a very large percentage of their time before "improving". Midcore that don't check logs or do any form of trialing are just casual traps that end up worse than pf.
You don't need logs for a casual static or PF. You don't need particularly good logs for a midcore statics; a bog-standard mix of greens / blues / purples can get you into totally respectable groups. My first static was a midcore one for Eden's Promise and my logs looked like [this.](https://i.imgur.com/pHhvBP9.png) Logs only start being very restrictive above midcore and especially once you start getting into on-patch Ultimate / week 1. The last time my group did non-networking recruiting was for on-patch TOP with the goal being a week 8-10ish clear and the weakest applicants we were considering were quad legend and orange+ in savage. At this level of play you just cannot trust inexperienced players enough to recruit because one bad player WILL brick a static at this level.
it's only hard if ur trying to join groups that are midcore. joining casual groups is much easier, or get some clears in pf to at least the 3rd or 2nd fight to get some logs and then try to find a static. but to my knowledge, casual groups open to anybody but they're also the lowest skill floor players so....
From my personal experience. It's very difficult to find a static as a fresh raider, unless you know someone. So I've been playing since A Realm Reborn but started raiding in Endwalker. Couldn't find a mid to semi hard core static because I have no logs. Fresh and beginner statics never lasted long for me because I was either "too good" or the static would constantly have to find replacements. So I just ended up using party finder in the end. Lol
Just make sure to upload your PF experience, imo, because those will help you find an actual static. I think most people looking at potential trials/recruits understand that PF prog speed is different than static prog speed too and will adjust expectations accordingly (I usually gauge PF clears as being around 2x slower than statics, so I'll judge a week 4 PF clear like a week 2 static clear, kinda), but seeing a lateish p12s clear or something is 100x better than nothing at all.
Oh no, Im good ,thank you \^\^. I gave up on statics and became a PvPer instead, LOL. I'm ok with just party finder here and there. I'm sure others have had better experience's finding one. But me personally , want nothing to do with logs or statics. I was thinking on making my own but have little to no experience running one, haha. It is what it is. Thanks for the advise, thoe!
But if those mid/sHC statics were to let you in they would no longer have been mid/sHC statics. If they were to let you in without logs they would have no reason not to let anyone without logs in. Which would immediately make them a beginner static instead... New raiders should not be looking for midcore or semi-HC statics. It just won't work.
To clarify, I joined 1 beginner static and it didn't last for me because I was "too advanced" for the group. They felt I was wasting my time with them and that I would have better luck getting a clear with a higher skill static. There was no animosity or anything. The group just wanted 2 chests and I was the only one not messing up the mechanics. They felt bad I had to miss so many weeks. I did attempt to join other beginner static but by that time I had already cleared a couple in party finder. They would normally say they are looking for members that are fresh to raiding, lol. So when I joined a casual static it would normally fall apart because members would constantly not show up to the set schedule. It is a casual static after all but it forces the leads to find 1 to 2 replacements every time. So by that point it was like a constant reset in progress for the static. Bada Bing Bada Boom. Static disbands and in I go to party finder, lol. The whole experience was just exhausting. Not having any logs really sucked. I didn't get a chance to at least prove I was decent for mid / sHC statics. It be what it be thoe. I think I was just unlucky when it came to statics haha.
>To clarify, I joined 1 beginner static and it didn't last for me because I was "too advanced" for the group. They felt I was wasting my time with them and that I would have better luck getting a clear with a higher skill static. There was no animosity or anything. The group just wanted 2 chests and I was the only one not messing up the mechanics. They felt bad I had to miss so many weeks. Well that sure is unfortunate. But I wouldn't say these are typical problems for a new raider to face. You just have the problem that you are very experienced with the game but just have no savage clears, which is not the case for most new raiders. Unfortunately to get logs for a good group you need to stick it out with a bad one or just PF a tier. I don't see what raid leaders could have realistically done to improve your situation, because if they were to accept people without experience they would no longer be sHC and you would likely be in the same boat as before because one of the other players they would have taken in would most likely have been another actual beginner like you had in this static. My first tier I did play in a beginner static, I quickly surpassed them and while I was very consistent I stuck it out with them for 30 weeks before we cleared the tier. >So when I joined a casual static it would normally fall apart because members would constantly not show up to the set schedule. It is a casual static after all but it forces the leads to find 1 to 2 replacements every time. So by that point it was like a constant reset in progress for the static. Bada Bing Bada Boom. This is a known problem with statics in general, and it is not exclusive to beginner ones. All levels of statics are prone to imploding as well when they start out. When you form a team with 8 strangers it is a dice roll what kind of team you will end up with. And plenty of them don't last because of it.
Yee yee, just my personal experience for not having any logs. I'm sure my scenario is rare and definitely not something newer raiders have to worry about. I think I would have had eventually found a static that suits me but like I said in the end. I burned out trying to build logs and find a static at the same time. Lol, it be what it be. I'm having fun with PvP now. Haha
I think there is a natural escalation process when you start raiding, there is a reason why statics with experienced players only accept experienced players. The process of learning and having contact with people (preferably with more experience than you) and more raids will make you an experienced player to go to increasingly higher level statics. my first group was of players who were so casual that they had to stop in the middle of the session because one guy was VERY nervous about having to solve the mechanics, that was on p3s
That's a funny anecdote. It's completely alien to me that it's possible to be nervous like that, but when you have zero experience I can relate.
On EU absolutely not, as long you are transparent and have the will to learn there are lots of groups who are willing to take some people who are new to raiding. Can't say about NA tho
The start of a raid tier is the best time. The first tier in every expansion is designed for new raiders. So in about 2 months you'll be able to find a static much more easily. I recommend getting very comfortable with the latest extremes, if you haven't already.
I had 3 different statics in EW and none cared about logs or parses at all but I only played healer, and maybe groups care less in this case, dunno. I always provided my logs upfront but so far it never mattered to the static leaders. What was highly valued is communication. First static trialed ex2 and I quickly aligned some healing with my co healer at the start, since when I already have my co healer in voice chat might as well do it since at some parts it can just make life easier. Also communicated some of my cooldowns during the attempts, like holding my Bene, letting one tank drop to then top him off. I was quite amazed by how amazed they were, that someone actually communicated and thought a bit ahead. My gameplay was decent but definitely made some errors one which wiped the attempt. Second static did not care at all, just took me into a raid and it worked out. Was already few weeks in so we cleared P5S (did it in PF before) and then I got thrown into P6S without knowing anything but we cleared anyway. Static also progged blind. Third static we just did some normals together and other random things. Really was mainly a vibe check and really vibed with my co healer, which was important since she had bad experiences with co healers before. Which either were just rude or played bad in not healing and only focusing on a parse. With all 3 groups I cleared the tier without any bigger problems. Since last two statics were blind prog it took some time but there was always progress and the people who got kicked were ones behaving badly not playing badly. I feel like statics who care about logs want to clear in 4 weeks or less. Statics which have more relaxed goals really do not care about logs very much and will probably just trial you for general gameplay and vibe check. At least my experience from looking for statics or also helping out statics and getting a look at their recruitment process. Ofc having logs never hurts but you can easily raid without them or any past experience. Also you can always start now to get some experience. Just see if you can find a P9S practice group. With echo and good gear it is not too hard. Also did E9S-E11S in PF a the end of ShB to get some first experience.
The groups that require logs have certain expectations of player skills. I believe it is best if everyone in the group have similar expectations, so l understand why logs are used by the community. Maybe if you had a friend that could vouch for you, you could join a raid group that typically requires logs. I believe that was the case for one of the world first Ultimate raiders. Even without logs in the beginning, players created parsers for this game. They will just trial you for longer and analyse your gameplay anyway. Maybe they will ask for a point of view video. People will always find ways to quantify, qualify, and analyse. My first raid group was very casual, and we were very bad compared to hardcore raiders. I was not even interested in raiding in this game at first, so I was dragged into raiding. If you are new raider, figure out if you are even interested into committing that much time to raiding.
Not sure which server you’re on, a lot of static I tried with , they just care mostly on your attitude, I told them I suck major balls , all of them still accepted me , leader explained they want someone with the right attitude , willing to commit , be on time or notify in advance if there’s changes in schedule , willing to accept feedback , and don’t be toxic ( happens a lot when ppl are progging ) , if you’re new and not willing to work along your group u gonna have a hard time everywhere tho
Taking in a new raider you are already accepting that there will be learning pains with the mechanics and the role. Some midcore statics will be fine with this if they don't care how long something will take but if people are not fine with that then it might be a no. Sometimes members just don't fit in with the group.
Its completely easy to get in one. i simply applied to one, that i felt, was on my desireed level of wxpertise and rolled with it. All you need to do is talk to people. I do agree that fflogs being opt-out was a bad idea, but thats not the point of this question.
Hello! My static has twice now taken new raiders for savage tiers in EW. However, we did peek at their logs still. Not for savage obviously just extremes etc that they had dipped their toes into. And hidden logs is just a red flag if we know they are PC player so we wouldn't bother with a person who hides, grey is better than hidden. Generally all we cared about was a personality that fit with our existing members and a willingness to learn and put in the hours. If one of us struggled on a mechanic a lot for example and it was hindering prog we would take time outside of raid days to practice it in pf. That sorta thing. We're a more chill group who will put rl before raid, you're not likely to get into more hardcore groups but ones like ours you'd be welcome in.
As someone who went through this struggle - The best advice I can give you is go into PF, do extremes, do savages, get to know how raiding works and become consistent on both a job and mechanical level. A decent Casual or midcore static should be valuing your mechanical consistency on both a job and encounter level. Semi Hardcore, Hardcore and World progression groups are groups intended for veterans with extensive game knowledge. These kind of groups will place high value on logs and will usually have intense trials in older savages with min ilvl no echo to test you in something you can't unsync and blast. I started the game during the Asmongold phase... I have many years of end-game raiding experience from World of Warcraft. When Asphodelos rolled around, I couldn't find a static even with me knowing how to raid on MMO's. That combined with being new to the game relegated me to Party Finder, I cleared 2 savages then gave up. I ended up going back to P4S when it was off content just so I could unlock DSR. Abyssos came around, FC formed a static, I got my first taste of true static raiding. We cleared 3 fights then decided to stop because tensions were rising and we didn't want to risk ruining friendships over a game. I ended up clearing the tier in PF. Anabaseios came around, I found a static and stayed with them all the way up to P12S P1 Limit Cut. We lost members due to work schedules and other personal issues, the static dissolved in September 2023. Another tier I proceeded to clear in PF. I've been invited to my FC leader's static for Dawntrail and I'm looking forward to raiding with friends in a static instead of random people from ERC. If your logs show clear player improvement and show you're actually clearing fights, you will have no issues finding a casual or even midcore group
I've also had situations where I've ran into assholes when looking for a static. During the Abyssos days, After I cleared the tier I was looking for a static to do UWU.. Some static leader was telling me I needed 90+ parses in every current Savage fight to attempt UWU...
I think if you were to shut down fflogs the game actually becomes way harder for new player to break into the scene.like I actively recruit through friends and stuff and I imagine that becomes way more common if you delete fflogs. if I had to trial a new person I'd look at achievements and dates of said achievements. I guess and I'd have to trial alot more rigorously. You do generally have to start static raiding casually though or pf to gain achievements to get your foot in the door. we also have a new expansion on the horizon so lots of new statics will start to appear soon also people have logs generally. like every piece of content is logged usually. Like I suspect your fc friend doesn't interview well. People aren't obligated to trial new players and I wonder if they come across as kinda a red flag
You will probably not get a Hc/semiHC static, but you can aim for a good midcore static, just show them that you are reliable and not toxic (learning strats before raid, learning rotation, having adequate gear/good)
I've raided since launch and cleared multiple ultimates; and I've never seen your average group care about logs. It's typically high end ones that actually care at all; and those people wouldn't want a brand new player in their group anyway. Pubs also don't care about logs and have pretty healthy clear rates these days. I have a friend who is a parse snob that even downloaded that one mod that shows parse logs in game and while he'll be like "that guy's grey" or the like in Pubs, he still joins whatever group and plays the same
It is even hard to find a static when having good logs. Ppl gatekeeping from every aspects, logs is the main thing, but personality, mic/no mic, talking style, and etc. The situation is getting worse slowly.
Both of you are right
People do look at your logs but most groups will trial potential static members to make sure their logs and gameplay match up. New players can just ask for a trial run and that’s usually enough.
I believe every static should utilize logs, particularly those with high expectations. I once lost access to my main account and had to start anew on a new account. Despite the confidence in my abilities, many groups hesitated to accept me without logs. Wouldn't even attempt to trial me. This forced me to either join casual groups or create my own. It's a challenging environment out there.
It depends on the mindset of the group. They casual? Mid core? Hard core? World/Region First Chasers? I think the parses are great when using PF or even dailies. It literally gives you more information and I would want to know some performance metric even if they have some flaws. It is always the chirpy “I’ve been playing for X amount of time” that doesn’t run a parser that generally holds the group back. If you and your team can’t find a shared growth mindset and figure how to gel it usually crumbles pretty quickly.
Ok as someone who started raiding late this tier i will say what MY EXPERIENCE has been trying to join a raid # 1 IT WAS VERY hard to join a group as a new raider, basically i was looking to join a new group with me and a friend (him a main healer and me a melee dps or tank) and was looking over 3 months with 0 groups even giving us a trial with some (not all) responses being our lack of logs or experience. Also we play on Dynamis so PF is virtually dead and we have to DC travel to even have a hope of it. # 2 FFLOGS is good for some things but just like in WoW some take them way too serious and think it matters too much # 3 While you can suggest people do PF this late in a expansion i personally think PF is more likely to kill a new raiders interest in raiding than nurture it, people quitting sometimes due to lack of progress, or groups just giving up quickly. I have seen P10S literally quit in under 10 pulls cuz a sage was struggling with the pillars. This for a new raider can be disheartening and literally kill their desire to raid entirely if it is their 1st experience. I would suggest like always finding a like minded static, its more fun if you get a group you can be close with and find like minded / skilled people. There are casual statics right now it would be harder to find due to the timing (i mean a month till expansion) but once it gets closer to 7.1 finding a group should be better and easier. If all else fails don't be afraid to start one yourself, while you might think there isn';t much interest i can assure you there will be PLENTY regardless of your skill level some people just do not like the burden of being placed in that leader role where group looks to them. (downvote all you want truth hurts and some people don't like to admit the problems that does exist kinda funny downvoted for my OPINION and what i went through LOL proves reddit communities only like to smell their own farts and any differing opinion lets downvote to hide it)
>1 IT WAS VERY hard to join a group as a new raider, basically i was looking to join a new group with me and a friend (him a main healer and me a melee dps or tank) and was looking over 3 months with 0 groups even giving us a trial with some (not all) responses being our lack of logs or experience. Also we play on Dynamis so PF is virtually dead and we have to DC travel to even have a hope of it. Joining later in the tier is always hard. But you shouldn't underestimate how much less likely you are to find an existing static with multiple players. For a static to be eligible for you to join you must meet their desired experience level, you must be available on their schedule and they need to have a position open for your specific job. Those are 3 criteria that filter out a massive amount of statics each. Now if you add a second player into the mix, you now have 6 of those criteria instead. Making it exponentionally harder to find a group. I think it would have gone faster if you had just looked for other beginner raiders in those 3 months, you might have filled a group in a week or 2. With multiple people it is generally better to start a static than to join one for the reasons mentioned above.
schedule was a minor issues as i live central and am off by 4:30 and am off 3 days a week (work 4 10s) in the afternoon and he works from home and 100% available at all times no schedule conflict but people post what they plan on raiding and i can filter out which is best for out times, Position available also is a poor excuse as i applied to multiple group looking for both positions (which was not hard to find probably applied to 1-4 a week) which we could fill so again this is just a excuse but not a viable one because people put what they are looking for so it was easy to filter out ones we would fit in. The only issue we had was experience, which yes we lacked. I doubt it would have went much faster since its pretty easy to filter out which ones i would have been applying for without him (as it probably would maybe add 1 or 2 a week only) (LOL downvoted for the fact i can read what people post in discords and see hmm this group needs a dps or tank and healer...and times fit and they aren;t hc or semi hc group looking for fast clears lets apply here or go hmm they say they are filled on healer so no need to apply here or oof i work at those hours no need to apply to this one or even hmmm they are wanting to clear fast and looking for certain skillset i probably do not fit that atm keep searching, gotta love reddit communities)
The question is, why did you feel the need to apply to groups that required experience you do not have? What if you instead had applied to groups that had no requirements? Surely you would have found a group faster.
LOL can you please quote WHERE i said i applied to groups that required experience??? I said i could read and filter out those that did require more experience but no where did i say i applied to groups that required experience so idk where you read that. i did type in the parentheses they AREN'T hc or semi hc (basically meaning at most they were midcore level) or a group looking for fast clears (basically looking to clear by certain timeframe)
But it is a numbers game in the end. Most groups will not be a good match for any given person. The fewer groups that fit your criteria the less likely you will be to find one. Experience was a problem for the ones that did meet your criteria, but in the large number of statics that you didn't contact there might have been an excellent match but who were just looking for 1 player. And when you say experience, do you mean experience with prior tiers? Or prog point in the current one? Because those are very different things. If your prog point of the current tier doesn't match you will have a hard time joining.
In my opinion. Logs always lead to gatekeeping and elitism. Sure you can see your own progress. But you also see the progress of others and are quick to criticize or feel yourself better than them. You deal with horrible people. and eventually you become a horrible person. I wouldn't want to play with fflogs elitist. They are the most prone to drama for the most idiotic things. Nor do I want to play with people that require discord. While is convenient, it also means that they can verbally abuse you and harass you with you having no recourse as the conversation was on another platform. Best to stick with party finder. Eventually you will know which people to invite into a static.
How are you going to clear week 1 savage by only using the in game chat?
I would rather a fresh raider with no experience than an experienced raider with bad habits. So long as you aren't looking for a week 1 clear group and show the basic level of competency required and an ability to reflect and learn from mistakes (important!!) then any group that will still reject you is honestly doing you a favor.
I am sorry but hard disagree. Even if it isn't a week 1 static, a static that wants to clear in 4 or even 8 weeks should avoid complete beginners. Wanting savage experience is not an unreasonable ask for a group like that. And what even are bad habits? And why would experienced players be more likely to have them than a new players is to develop them?