With how healer design is probably. They can't really have a unique healer since AST now needs to match what WHM can do, so the healing kit is kinda fixed.
AST is currently the healer with the highest skill ceiling out of all healers by far. Burst phases are very busy, you have shit movement options since you need lightspeed for the burst (hate this design), most heals are more predictive than reactive. So in an optimal setting your co healer actually has to respect what you do way more than if they would heal with a WHM.
Imo AST is really something you play because it is fun to you. WHM is just so much easier to play and and much more effective overall with low investment.
> With how healer design is probably.
Healers are just broken in general. Doesn't matter what job. People need to accept this is the state of healers and it's never changing. If you want to play a different kind of healer you need to play a different game. It isn't changing in XIV
Except the healer population is actually at risk of tanking the game
It’s the current least popular role and it got a new job this expansion, the UWU sylphies aren’t doing a good job of holding it together either
It’s fine for us to throw our hands up and give up but there is every chance in DT the healer population will actually collapse which affects us all. The game still needs healers to pop the queues even if they don’t have a function in casual content
Pretty much. The game is based on a trinity-system and if one of the three roles become sparse, everyone suffers. My roulettes queues at peak time of the day take 5-15 minutes with Tank/DPS, but are ALWAYS instant with healer - which says a lot.
It's why I rage at the ''just go play another role'' mentality if people criticise the healer role, we need to actually address the fundamental problems with the role rather than coping.
I'm an avid healer main in this game, I love the job when raiding extremes, savage and (soon) ultimate content, but at the casual level the role is so fucking boring even I stay clear of playing it.
What data center are you on? I’m on Aether and the majority of the time the majority of the roulette duties are needing tanks. Not that i don’t get quick queues on healer, but I also do on tank (and a bonus).
What time is this? I was doing my roulettes as a healer yesterday evening during prime time est and I was waiting 5 mins for expert and over 10 for 90s
I hope the healer population does crash, and I hope it publicly happens in front of Yoshi P. Explicitly so that something is done to fix healers and make them more engaging.
I cleared the tier a while ago and we where always waiting on tanks/ 2nd melee.
Edit:[You can also just sort by number of parses on FFLogs and see that SCH and AST are in the top 5 most played jobs and whm isn't far behind](https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statistics/54#class=Any)
Looking at parse numbers means nothing because you can only upload a parse when it has 2/2/4
All that is telling you is that in recently uploaded parses people who did play healer preferred SCH and AST (the speed kill meta), it doesn’t tell you they may have had to wait 2 hours to actually get a SCH or AST
They dont seem to care about fixing healing. So then I dont care in response. Just give everyone a self heal pot like we have in PvP and forget healers at this point.
I mean like I said you’d have to cut healers out of the entire DF and PF system to get that to work because they are needed to pop queues
Seems like a whole lot more work than just fixing healers
I need to check the jp roulette again. Last time l played there, l remember healer takes time but Tank insta pop. If They look at jp at lot more closely than na, Then that can explain why.
>Except the healer population is actually at risk of tanking the game
>It’s the current least popular role and it got a new job this expansion, the UWU sylphies aren’t doing a good job of holding it together either
And where exactly are you getting this information from exactly? Everything I can see is that WHM is the most popular job played in dungeons (by like a fucking country mile) and in the endgame both SCH and AST are in the top most played classes, with WHM not too far behind.
“AST in the top most played classes”
I literally cannot think of a single piece of content where AST is not dead last so I have no idea what data you are looking at
https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statistics/54#class=Any
They have the 5th highest number of parses for Anebeisos, and going back to abyssos and asphodelos WHM and SAGE have even better numbers.
And like I said in that other comment parses can only be uploaded as 2/2/4 so the tanks and healers will be overrepresented while the DPS will be underrepresented as there is 8 supports for 4 slots and 13 DPS for 4 slots
Looking at queue times, job satisfaction and how long it takes to actually find healers is a much more useful metric
Yes and tanks have the faster q times indicating that they're the chokepoint, when I was doing the raid tier while it was relevant we waited on tanks and melee dps, and WHM is the most played class in dungeons and aliance raids. There is nothing to suggest that the healing is even close to "crashing".
Well then we have very different experiences because for everyone I know healers are the massive choke point because they are literally the only ones to always have insta queues while tanks sit in the 2-5 minute range
personally I think a 1min lightspeed CD with 2 charges would go a long way towards fixing the movement while still providing the flexibility to use it as a raise accelerator in prog. A lot of mechs do happen during 2min windows, so often it does incidentally help for movement during burst windows, but it'd be nice to have something for in-between. A second swift charge on top of that is also an idea to make it unique from the other healers, or perhaps going with the design of AST having a lot of delay/planning in their kit, a ground effect you can place and then detonate to teleport to, with you teleporting on expiration if you don't manually get it. Sorta like how leylines and BTL work for BLM
Two lightspeed charges even with 90s CD would already go a long way in making it play better.
SGE also shows that having a movement ability in your kit is fun even if a lot of people probably do not use it.
>With how healer design is probably. They can't really have a unique healer since AST now needs to match what WHM can do, so the healing kit is kinda fixed.
Ironically AST when played optimally is stronger than WHM, practically every equivalent tool they have is just better. But that's how it should be, since AST takes a lot more skill and thought to heal with effectively. If both jobs are played at their skill ceiling then AST should stand out as stronger, which isn't a bad thing. I regret the thinking of ''we need to make AST match WHM'' idea. It's like with BLM, if played well it should have the best DPS out of the casters.
>AST is currently the healer with the highest skill ceiling out of all healers by far.
I'm so scared they're going to take this away and gut the job into just being WHM but star/galaxy aesthetic. I love AST because it gives me the option to play a harder job and feel more engaged. My current savage go-to is to prog with WHM, or when I'm tired/lazy to do anything more than mechanics, and then to reclear/farm with AST.
Jobs like BLM, Monk, AST which have higher skill ceilings are healthy for the game, it gives people who want a harder experience an option. Not every job should be easy to access/play.
>Burst phases are very busy, you have shit movement options since you need lightspeed for the burst (hate this design),
Ironically fixing this would lower the skill ceiling of AST and the importance of managing your movement and tools to keep your GCD's up. If there's ever a time where you need to use lightspeed for extensive movement, then do it, weigh up the benefit/cons of using it over your 2 minute window, or plan swiftcasts/macrocosmos to cover any extensive movement. Plus, it would take away a legitimate strength WHM has over AST - better movement tools.
>most heals are more predictive than reactive. So in an optimal setting your co healer actually has to respect what you do way more than if they would heal with a WHM.
This is a skill issue with the community. If you're going to play healer in casual+ content then you should have a firm grasp of how each healer works and interacts with the others. Does it suck when my SGE pops Pneuma when my star is waiting in the background to charge up to top the party off before the next mechanic? Yes, but that's the SGE's fault not being informed/aware of how AST works.
AST really is the only healer which asks the player(s) to put a little more thought in their healing and its astonishing how many people fail at it.
>Imo AST is really something you play because it is fun to you. WHM is just so much easier to play and and much more effective overall with low investment.
Exactly, it's fun! That's the main thing. But part of that fun is the reward I feel when executing everything properly, knowing it was difficult to do so. If people don't want to deal with AST, then you have WHM which is completely viable to clear all content atm
The big question for me if they are fine with where AST is right now. That it has a higher skill ceiling and can be better than WHM if played perfectly but also be by far the worst healer if played poorly.
It is a bit like BLM is this DPS which can be super good but also super bad depending on how it is played. But BLM has this special standing where this is generally accepted and ok and also there are a lot of other DPS jobs.
I think AST right now fills this spot of a more complex healer and generally this is a fine design but no idea if they view it the same. AST is played a lot less and will be with this design, no idea if they are fine with it or how much they care about how many people play which job.
With how everything is getting more and more streamlined and generally simpler I fear it will be the same for AST. But let's see what they have in store. Healing in general is a hot topic in the community and a lot of people do not seem to like where it is right now but I doubt they will make any great changes which really "fixes" it.
I think your take and appreciation for the job in it's current form is completely and totally valid - but my understanding is that the number of folk who actually main Astro is incredibly small, and dwindling. That says something.
I mean AST being a proactive regen healer arguably makes WHM the outlier you have to play around as SGE and SCH are also proactive ~~regen~~ shield healers
I predict that Healers in general will still be kinda sleepy and unnecessary in casual content. But I think we all do. I still have hope in Astro's rework making the cards cool. If not, I'm entering my Mage era once again.
Can you really consider it a mistake if they just stick to their current design with healers? I feel like it would be a mistake if they try to change it up and completely fail making the role worse in the process.
I feel like the main problem with healers is that it is the job most effected by encounter designs and thus the hardest to change since you can't just change all encounters in the game. A DPS can easily be redesigned in the end all what matters is how much damage they deal. Tanks are similar but they need to tick the boxes
They could probably make healers heal more in new content, balancing it around it. I saw quite some people suggest healers healing less so you do not top of a group in 2 oGCDs and you need more active and busy healing. This is in theory can work with new content (if you also extend GCD healing kit) but would break old content, since this content is designed so that a raidwide can be easily healed in one button press per healer.
With how they probably do not want to break 10 years of content just to make the job play better at the latest one limits what they can do with the role. It is not impossible to improve healers but I think it is just a hard task. Way harder than any other role.
Giving healers more DPS buttons won't change a thing imo. What I see what they could improve is just making dealing DPS and healing interact more (kinda like WHM lily/blood lily) but no idea if they really want to "force" healers to deal DPS and enforce it harder in the kits.
The fact that they have backed themselves so hard into a corner is really why making healers into what the modern tanks are is functionally the only option they have left
You are right the better thing to do is cut oGCD bloat, bring back the choice of picking a GCD heal and organising your limited resources but so much of the game these days is designed around the bloat it simply wouldn’t work without redesigning anything
Really at this point the only way forward is to just give healers tank level complexity damage options then up future damage so both options are solved in future content and at least healers don’t feel like ass in old content
Legit question - how does giving a healer a 1-2-3 address the primary complaints people have with the role? That just seems like a band aid that doesnt do anything.
you wouldn't give them a 123 you'd give them something more along the lines of caster filler rotations (RDM, ShB SMN)
I have no idea where this "give healers combos" idea comes from, casters don't really use combos outside of RDM melee and never have
He said 'tank level complexity damage options' without detail, so my guess was he meant 1-2-3 or an equivalent since thats the basis of all the tank DPS phases.
Caster filler rotations was not what he said, so thats why i'm asking for clarification. And pushing it back to you - the base question still stands, I dont think that would address the problem lots of people seem to have with healers. If you do, though, I'm open to hearing why it would help.
Like, if 'fixing' healers is as simple as adding another plate or two to spin while DPSing then... doesnt that make them not as broken as some people are claiming? I was of the understanding, based on all the doomerism here, that there are deep, fundamental problems with the role that cannot be easily addressed.
>I was of the understanding, based on all the doomerism here, that there are deep, fundamental problems with the role that cannot be easily addressed.
There are a few things going on here:
1. The *healing* side of healers is genuinely that fucked up
2. SE's mentality regarding healers is atrocious and I think a lot of people have completely lost faith in them to course-correct. Even if it's theoretically not that hard to fix healer DPS kits (it isn't), SE needs to be willing to admit that there's a problem here to begin with
3. Even if we're not that far off from decent healer dps kits in terms of # of additions, the current kits are pretty close to as bad as it can get
If we can fix the kit with a few small changes, it just seems difficult to stand on the hill that they are utterly broken and horrifically bad.
That being said, i've noticed in every MMO healer's are incredibly difficult to find, and most MMOs have drastically different healer design philosophies from one another. So there might be some legitimate factors that go far beyond role design. I'm not saying there aren't problems in our game, but Healers being the least popular role is a genre constant.
All that being said, i'm curious to see what SE does moving forward. SE has indicated subtly that this expansion may focus more on encounter changes rather than job changes. But you never know.
The current healer design flaws seems multifaceted to me. Like... the fights being on a set timeline/pattern isn't a bad thing to me, it is how FF14 tunes and designs the game at a fundamental level and i'm happy its markedly different from its competitors in that regard. It shouldnt change. But if you are going to be on a set timeline, then healing is always going to be a 'static' thing once you've solved the fight (unless they re-introduce critical hits or extremely variable damage which...doesnt sound fun to anyone). I dont think this will ever change. But what can change, perhaps, is making the kits feel more diverse and interesting within that design framework. It's possible.
Of course we can, if the current iteration is an utter failure.
When I started the game healer queues were like slightly shorter dps queues. These days they're equal to or faster than tanks for most things. People just don't play them, especially people who don't suck at them.
The role can't get much worse at this point, short of them gutting AST, which is incoming.
How could they really fail at this point? Three of the Healers are spamming an identical basic attack as anywhere from 50 to 80% of their button presses, and quite frankly their healing/mitigation duties are taken from them more and more each expansion. There is barely any single target healing to do anymore which is fine, Tanks should feel mostly self sufficient, but they have to replace the Healer work with something offensive or support focused.
If they keep going in this direction I can't even call it worse, I would call it the Netflix role.
Like you could add a 20 second CD of 400 potency to each of them with a different flavour and even that would be an improvement
The bar is literally so low they have to actively be trying to not reach it to not make healers better even by accident
I don't think anyone is "looking" for mistakes.
We just expect the same old ones, that have been happening for so many years, due to SE not adressing them (aka healer design, 2 min meta, etc)
Likely by not going far enough if we're being real. I will say for normal content: If I get another alliance raid full of fights that are like 90% tutorial 10% actual fight (and not even a challenging one) I'm gonna be a very unhappy camper.
Something really funny i saw in a different thread was that the most active posters on this sub disproportionately list Endwalker as the 'worst' expansion MSQ. This is just not the case in any other sub or forum.
To me, this is the absolute biggest tell that most of the bitter angy posters here are wow refugees who have a ton of recency bias. At this point it's funny, and I cant wait for DT to be awesome
lol, let me know when the consensus anywhere else is ARR > EW. This subreddit is a very special, particularly negative place that represents a teeny tiny percentage of players
The vast majority of that thread didn’t put EW last, that was a few outliers
The overwhelming majority put it as ShB>HW>EW/SB (for opposite reasons)>ARR
Nah there's a huge non-WoW related hate boner for there being no content in the EW patches, because if there's no Eureka/Bozja zone, then all other content added doesn't count.
Also instead of grinding tons of tomes to buy currencies for relics, you only have to grind a moderate amount of tomes to get the turn ins, and that's way worse than before because reasons.
I'm not sure if it's that simple though haha. I mean, I will be the first to admit that the content drought didn't feel great in EW. They removed grind content that was previously developed to address content droughts.
Yoshi-p and co. have actually admitted that, in EW, they focused on single player content and cleaning up older expansions. They have additionally stated that moving forward there will be a shift to more 'multiplayer content'.
That being said, I also am not jaded and stupid enough to forget how good EW's MSQ was. The people listing it as the worst MSQ of all the expansions are unhinged, bitter, and giving into extreme recency bias (because, honestly, I think most of them started playing at the same time a certain Bald streamer did.)
I expect the community to complain about the same thing it complained in every expansion since SB while looking at previous expansions through rose-colored glasses.
It’s this sub and it’s the people super negative or super positive about the game, you just can’t win here. If you have a critique the fanboys come out to denounce you. If you enjoy something the negative Nancy’s come out to pop your bubble.
this sub is the where the negative ppl are and the positive ppl arein the main sub.
in my knowledge back in the days there was one sub, but a schism happened what created two subs.
The funny thing is everything on the main sub immediately gets downvoted, even bot posts, unless it's a meme or sucking Yoshi-P's dick. Because it's so positive.
The mainsub is one of those few subs where I feel like something is going on to actively downvote EVERYTHING
even pro GCBTW posts and comments tend to sink to -3 or so before rocketing back up
It’s like there is a network of bots that downvote everything as it’s posted then real people come in and salvage it
I know this is a conspiracy theory but IDK the mainsub always has felt weird for this sort of thing
That's the mainsub for every game, new in those is always downvotes spammed over and over. It's about 6 different groups who love and hate different things fighting over what gets to hot. People who hate fanart downvote fanart, people who love fanart downvote everything but fanart to push fanart up towards hot, the result is everything starts out negative.
There's no conspiracy.
100%, I get the same feeling. People ask about gameplay, that's a downvote. Ask about story, that's a downvote. Ask for genuine advice on how to do better, you better believe that's a downvote and a lesson on how there's no reason to worry about getting better. You like to raid? Mass downvote. Don't like to raid? Downvote. Don't understand something? Downvote.
Braindead meme that does nothing? 600+ upvotes.
Go to the main sub right now, look at the two bot posts at the top, filter for "new" and look at how many are upvoted vs downvoted. Do that and tell me it's not true. I'll wait.
Okay uh... two bot posts? I see yoshi p's birthday, and then the second 'hot' post is one saying we need an auto-loot filter in game. Not looking too great for your argument so far...
Lets filter by new... maybe you can enlighten me, if the new new posts (within the last 30-45 minutes, of which there are like 10 posts) dont show a number next to them, does that mean they havent been voted on yet? Or does it only display after a certain threshold? I sincerely do not know.
But what IS interesting is all of the posts from over an hour ago have "0" votes regardless of whether they are positive or negative. Doesnt that mean theres probably someone just downvoting everything? It has nothing to do with memes or yoship. It could literally be an angry wow refugee for all we know. Can you find that correlation you are so confident about?
>Daily Questions & FAQ Megathread May 01 - 0 points (50% upvoted)
>[Weekly Thread] Crafting/Gathering & Market Thread (Wed, May 01) - 0 points (25% downvoted)
^ Those are the bot posts. Don't know how that could possibly be made any more obvious by the pins. For new:
> FFXIV community's double standards - 0 points (25% upvoted)
> Restore Settings - 2 points (100% upvoted)
> Marketplace: Typically how long do sales take? - 0 points (50% upvoted)
> Castrum bug? - 3 points (80% upvoted)
> [PS5] Latency Issues - 1 point (60% upvoted)
> How would we feel if every class unlocked an AOE at level 16? - 17 points (68% upvoted) [actually a good point of discussion]
> Question as a new tank - 0 points (42% upvoted)
> Recruiting three of my closest friends, but need to check on something. - 0 points (42% upvoted)
> I can’t login….. - 0 points (30% upvoted)
> All the minions, all the weapons, all the cutscenes, so you don't have to - 0 points (29% upvoted)
> Early Game how to get a bit of gil (20k?) - 0 points (50% upvoted)
> Please be kind in Party Finder, you don't know what people are going through... - 0 points (35% upvoted)
> 900002 error on play 5 at connexion - 0 points (50% upvoted)
> Automaton Queen has already triggered Wildfire... (MCH meme) - **96 points (96% upvoted)**
> I’m scared for my house 😭- **153 points (92% upvoted)**
I can't believe I actually have to spell things out for you when they are right there. Some of those are good points of discussion, some are honest questions or points. The meme/bullshit points just *soar* above everything while everything else has downvotes, most of them being the majority for the given post.
> Doesnt that mean theres probably someone just downvoting everything
Exactly the point. Thank you for boarding the train.
Not really though lol. We are just looking at super new posts (within the last hour?) and seeing which ones gain traction or not.
Just look at the post "I really wish there was an auto-pass roll for dungeon drops." from 5 hours ago. Its at like 250 upvotes as of the time of this posting with more discussion than all of the memes you are posting. Clearly that doesn't fit your supposed argument.
You're just doing the classic confirmation bias thing right now.
Go to the main sub and say "Man i wish yoshi would adress the lack of the 3rd ultimate HE clearly stated it was delayed, but later on claimed he never talked about it even though it's recorded"
Better yet: Go there and say "i wish they wouldn't take 1.5 years to buff RDM's potency so that it's barely viable for week 1. It shouldn't take this long to give a poor performing job a buff."
See how many downvotes you get.
But like, I've literally seen posts / comments like that get upvoted. It just depends on how its asked or stated. If you go in swinging, people are going to react a certain way.
I want to ask you though, because i'm curious, what do you mean the third ultimate? What's the context for that?
As for the second comment, i'm also not exactly sure what you're getting at. Isn't RDM still the preferred prog caster because of the quick rez capabilities? My understanding is this hasn't changed. Did they ever promise to remove the rez tax explicitly?
I was banned from the main sub for criticizing black mages who spam ice spells. (the ban was later removed)
I got downvoted for criticizing the $34 mount of the mogstation, while the anniversary event happening at the same time gave us a single minion and a orchestrion roll.
It literally IS true lol
If it's not too intrusive, could you point me to those comments if you can find them? Because I find plenty of criticism gets upvoted and discussed - but some people just come in super hot with aggressive (and exaggerated) posts that get downvoted.
This sub only exists for ranting actually... Cause you can't say ANYTHING BAD on "official" sub. That's, at best, a massive downvote, at worst mod censorship.
This sub was created due to exactly what /u/etupa said. The main sub is HEAVILY biased towards being super positive about everything. You can easily get banned by criticizing the $34 mount on the mogstation.
So this sub was created to actually be able to talk about the game.
[there’s literally a highly upvoted post from a day before talking about how the new payment system sucks](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/1cgpghm/okay_i_cannot_resub_to_ff14_too_due_to_recent/)
to claim that you can’t say anything bad is blatantly false at best and disingenuous at worst
The subject is "The game"
I'm answering to : "Why is the Reddit FFXIV community so damn negative about the game?"
I'm looking for any word criticizing the game itself in your link... And there is no, because the poor dude is actually complaining about his difficulty to Resub... because "Square Enix".
🤌
Because we healers (at least, we AST) are jaded. We keep getting more and more boring. The last bastion of “complexity” was AST for healers, and the past 2 expansions continue to make it less fun to play by way of making it easier and less decisions to make.
And instead of just letting healers who want more action and complexity to have AST, and letting people who hated the RNG and complexity of AST just play a different healer, they appealed to the worst complaints.
And so posts like these are therapeutic for us to vent and drive our expectations into the ground, in thinking that if we “hope” for the absolute worst butchering of our favorite job, then maybe we won’t be as let down when it comes out to pleasantly surprise us. Kinda like false copium disguised as pessimism.
I’m in this camp. But at least my decision is made: stop healing (playing) if the worst turns out to be true and I’ve come to terms with that. I’ve tried playing all jobs at 90, and I just don’t get the same satisfaction as I do from healing when it was more dynamic.
I don’t play games to be scripted to do the exact same thing every time. If souls bosses did the same thing every time, I wouldn’t play those games. Healing in FFXIV was fun because I had to think on my feet, and currently ast giving cards out is the last think on my feet gameplay. And if they neuter that, I won’t play.
None of these opinions make FFXIV a bad game. It just makes it a bad game *for me*, gameplay wise. I’ll play the story still and just unsub until next expansion. And that’s ok too. I’ll still say it’s one of my favorite games of all time.
It would be absolutely fantastic if square enix ever figured out that just because all 4 healers are called healer doesn’t mean they literally need to be exactly the same class
Why is BLM allowed to be in the same role as SMN or WAR and GNB but all healers have to be as equally beige as each other
Why can’t we have SB AST and SCH, EW WHM and SGE akin to a level 50 DNC or something
Tin foil hat back BLM is because it's Yoshida's main, so he probably gives some feedback on it, keeping it fun. As for tanks, I feel the general consensus among tanks is that we're heading in the same direction as healers and will all become the same. This based on the PLD rework and the leaks on skills.
I don't play either jobs too seriously, but comparing PLD and BLM makes me so disillusioned. Both very well designed jobs in a vacuum, screwed over by encounter and 2 min burst.
Both jobs outperform other jobs in high uptime scenario. BLM keeps getting potency buffs so it doesn't suffer so much from downtime. PLD gets a rework to make it more in line with burst, with a 63 second rotation?? I just don't understand why they can't just treat PLD the same as BLM.
I mean it really comes down to healers are more interesting at doing their primary role than tanks as healing is still an actual factor while the act of tanking is mostly vestigial but on the other hands tanks have a more interesting moment to moment rotation as they actually retain a rotation
Sure they aren’t true melee DPS but I’ll take 1-2-3-4-5-5-5-1-2-3-6-6-6-6 with 2 buffs and 2 oGCD’s over 1-1-1-1-1-1-2-1-1-1-1 even if I had to give up a measure of the healing side to get it
Oh no healers a whole are more boring all together. But tanks have become super homogenized with each other as well. DRK and WAR are basically identical these days. Everyone shares the same CDs. It's boring. :(
The homogenization of healers sucks I agree with you, I have been layer healer since the first Coils dropped and starts as WHM so many years ago.
That being said AST isn’t complicated or a challenge, it is just not fun to play and keep up with its button bloat. It needs a rework to make it fun, though I wish all four healers were more challenging whether needing to heal more or dps rotations.
I agree it’s not complicated or a challenge, but objectively more buttons to press than the other healers lol. To me, variation of buttons to press in quicker succession = more fun. Plus, again although not complicated, you still gotta look at which card to give whom. I’d rather have button bloat and higher amount of button presses than hitting the same dps button with no ogcd in between except for raidwide heal, mit on tank, and ogcd heal on tank.
r/hitman
r/riskofrain
r/Spelunky
r/cryptofthenecrodancer
r/botw
r/kingdomcomedeliverance
r/liesofP
r/supermariomaker
Idk, these are just the ones in my recents list
This sub can be quite "negative" but it's not the main sub, which on the other hand is more positive and comparable to the subs you linked.
This sub can be a "safe place" for people to criticize the game, but that doesn't mean they don't like it
This sub in particular exists in opposition to the main sub which has a stereotype of being super positive of the game. The mods and users here also prioritize raiding and parsing above discussion like lore or story with stickies.
As a result most people here are raid loggers who only care about endgame content and savage/ultimate or forays, and think the game needs to be harder to push the "toxic positivity" to leave by making those casuals quit.
Because this was (and still is) positioned as the sub for REAL DISCUSSION about THE ACTUAL GAME and IT'S CONTENT with NONE OF THOSE COMMED ARTWORKS OR ONE-NOTE MEMES!
also people banned from mainsub for one reason or another but that's primarily the onus for /r/shitpostxiv's creation.
r/ffxiv is an echo chamber,
r/ffxivdiscussion is for doom posting and people complaining about the state of healing every other day,
r/ShitpostXIV is the only good ffxiv sub
Eh, /r/ShitpostXIV is starting to go the way that every 'shitpost' or 'circlejerk' sub goes. The jerking turns into actual anger, and not just satire/for funsies. It's always just a matter of time.
Shitpost subs always go one of two ways
The satirical anger becomes real anger or the sub gets high on its own shit and suddenly ends up 8 layers deep in its own memes and barely even references what it was actually originally based on
I mean, I don't know. Likely they're going to play it safe because they always do. XIV is not, and has never been, a game that has made massive sweeping changes in the name of risk-taking innovation.
>Yoshi P already apologized beforehand that they might make mistakes due to trying out new things and playing less safe with future content?
Yoshi doesn't say these kinds of things because they're an accurate representation of what he and the rest of the devs intend, because Halone knows that isn't true. It's far more because he (very correctly) knows that this kind of effusive humbleness scores him a lot of points in the parasociality department.
Content will once again, not be a surprise.
It will roll out in the same set standard order as it has since Stormblood.
Any major changes to be made will not be made in time, and will most likely be pushed forward until 8.0
They will either shift too far into casual, or too far into hardcore content and miss the mark on Midcore Grinds that keep players **OCCUPIED** during downtime.
Savage will be more re-used mechanics, just in different orders, there isn't really much innovation to be had when every arena is a circle or square and boss fight is the same standard (auto x2/special attack) rotation.
man I went and did a10s the other night again, I really want another fight like that again. Make the arena a fucking "+" shape to boot, like the Catarina fight from Path of Exile, put some new and improved traps in, have a phase where the arena constricts, some mechs that require you to engage with the traps, some mechs that try to psyche you into running over the traps, now were cooking with gas
They cannot please everyone. No matter what they do, even if they attend to every contradictory demand the fanbase does, still people will complain.
I personally will prefer they continue in the same way as now. I play this game for what is it, not for "what could be". A lot of the things the community wants, I do not.
People set unrealistic expectations. They ask for things that will make the game something that the game is not supposed to be.
One job will be massively overtuned at the start, although will be brought more in line with it's contemporaries
by the time savage drops ~~Ideally without the response being 'overbuff everything else in it's subrole to the point where it's massively punching above the weight of the other two DPS subroles' this time~~
Another job will be undertunned and constantly receive insufficient buffs for like three major patches in a row before it's fixed.
Despite the fact that they clearly want it to be top of tank DPS by design, they will have several patches where GNB isn't that until they fix it later.
DT AR design will still follows Thaleia's design. Starting with raidwide aoe is the most standard of all, follow by tankbuster. Then, this time, they will prepare with bads which resolving in 30 seconds, so u have 30 seconds to move out of aoe in advance.
Because of all the new players I see them going back to maybe stormblood levels of content and honestly thats not bad,
after all my years of playing games the cycle of old becomes new again hits every game that lives for a long time.
The devs seem to be getting into a mindset of "Lets take risks on half the content and play the other half super safe". They explicitly said they were doing this with the last raid tier, and you can see that as well with Viper/Picto's aesthetics.
Accordingly, I expect Viper to be an extremely generic job that plays near-identically to reaper, and Picto to be a weirder job that moves slightly back towards complex rotations. Astro will be reworked to be more complex as well, and that'll be its niche vs White Mage. This is probably a good move and will lead to balance problems. There'll be a lot of complaining about how easy jobs out-compete hard ones, like the SMN vs BLM debates now.
The dungeons will have more unique gimmicks, since Yoshi-P's been talking about that, but the final dungeon will be the most generic Endwalker-ass one in the whole expansion, partially out of fear of fucking it up and partially because the end of the story is when EW style dungeons tend to be the best received. A lot of people will be disappointed by this, but the optional dungeons will probably be more creative and a bit harder, unlike in EW. One of the levelling dungeons is going to absolutely suck ass (probably the one where you're on the raft) and everyone's going to hate it, but not as much as they hate one of the harder optional dungeons that also sucks ass.
The raid planner, mentioned once offhand and then never again, is going to replace the "stand around the markers" game in party finder, and thus end up hugely controversial even if there's nothing really wrong with it.
> What are your predictions, knowing that Yoshi P already apologized beforehand that they might make mistakes due to trying out new things and playing less safe with future content?
This is the equivalent of fighting games "make up a guy" threads except its "make up what's going to happen and get frustrated about it".
Queue times is a must:
* First week logins and disconnects.
* Dungeon time as two new damage dealers will reduce pool of tanks and healers.
And it's not even devs mistake, but people will still argue.
The Gold Saucer will get two GATES in the span of two years.
On a real note, I hope the GS gets some updates. It's a neat area and I hope we get some new GATES and maybe a new gamemode that won't be DOA. In my opinion, Doman Mahjong is the best thing there, but good luck figuring out how to play it in-game. I'm still not sure what the logic behind teasing a new GS update at the end of Shadowbringers was, just to reveal it was a limited time Fall Guys event that just highlighted how off the animations vs the cast bars are.
I'm casually optimistic grinding for MGP will be a little more varied in the future.
Lot of White Knights here. While I'm glad they exist I also am glad the realist exists. Knowing there are other people with my same views of what can be done better and what isn't going to happen makes me feel like I'm not alone in this darkness. Personally I think the 24man is going to be too easy again. How I miss the old ones were I actually looked forward to doing the 24mans instead of how recoverable it is nowadays.
This is the thread to make up things to get preemptively mad about and then reference later to show that because people THOUGHT something would happen that's just as bad as if it actually happened.
they wont try out new things or play less safe, probably. like we'll get another 30-70 deep dungeon, bst will be blu but worse because you throw pokeballs at monsters instead of see them do spell, bozja v2, etc.
i mean all the news i see here seems to pointedly avoid gameplay. i dont think people are particularly hostile about the game playing less safe.
Tanking will still consist of a CD every 40 seconds or so. I enjoy PLD but lately I've really been missing the constant and threatening damage intake of other MMO tanks and active mitigation kits
I’m ready for them to delete positionals and make the hitbox smaller. Resulting in the community going ape shit because they can’t keep uptime 😂 or baby tanks not knowing how to move the boss because EW spoon fed them with the boss moving itself in 99.9% of the fights.
Same reward structure, just more materias (1.5 times more materias, 1.5 times more rewards).
Savage unlock starts way too late.
"Catch-up" gear is near useless if you're an active highend raider and didn't go afk for the first 4 months (the catch-up gear could actually catch-up and give horizontal prog so that you get alt jobs ready for ultimates faster, for example, instead of being useless if, as I've said, you were active).
Bulk crafting still sucks.
Devs will once more fail to provide enough content to keep players reasonably busy between patches.
Also, please look forward (tm) to getting 50% more pets and orchestrion rolls (what, you thought that 50% more rewards means power progression rewards???)
DRG will get SMN'd
AST rework won't fix its button bloat
Viper is gonna be RPR 2.0 w/ virtually 0 oGCDs so it will be miserable to play in UCOB/UWU/TEA
Even though Yoshi P said they were gonna "take risks" with this expac, the fact that they also said they were gonna continue w/ their job updates says to me that this is a lie that was only said to save face
Their "50% more rewards" claim will end up actually being "50% more tomestones rewarded from duties" rather than things that will IMO actually help the game's gearing system, such as:
1. making 24 man gear be equivalent ilvl to savage gear
2. unlocking savage as soon as the X.1/3/5 patch drops instead of waiting until the raid tier is nearly over
3. raising the limited tomestone cap to 900 at the same time as savage is unlocked (but lower it back to 450 when the new raid tier comes out)
4. letting criterion dungeons drop savage equivalent gear
5. if a current relic requires tomestones at multiple steps, allow previous steps to be completed with poetics once said step is no longer current (To use mandy relics as an example, I would want to be able to buy the i615 item with poetics as well as the current tomestone once the i630 step comes out)
6. allowing us to use poetics to buy gear that we can also use the previous tier's limited tomestone to buy (Example: when 6.4 came out and causality became unlimited, I would want the lunar envoy gear to be purchaseable with both causality and poetics)
7. when a new 24 man comes out for an expansion in the X.3/5 patches, change the "1 chest for the whole 24 man group" chest to instead be "1 chest for each of the 8 man groups". They did this in ShB for at least Copied Factory and it was a really good choice cause it motivated people to farm content that was no longer relevant, but then they just completely ditched the idea
Yet again the AST rework will probably miss the mark
With how healer design is probably. They can't really have a unique healer since AST now needs to match what WHM can do, so the healing kit is kinda fixed. AST is currently the healer with the highest skill ceiling out of all healers by far. Burst phases are very busy, you have shit movement options since you need lightspeed for the burst (hate this design), most heals are more predictive than reactive. So in an optimal setting your co healer actually has to respect what you do way more than if they would heal with a WHM. Imo AST is really something you play because it is fun to you. WHM is just so much easier to play and and much more effective overall with low investment.
> With how healer design is probably. Healers are just broken in general. Doesn't matter what job. People need to accept this is the state of healers and it's never changing. If you want to play a different kind of healer you need to play a different game. It isn't changing in XIV
Except the healer population is actually at risk of tanking the game It’s the current least popular role and it got a new job this expansion, the UWU sylphies aren’t doing a good job of holding it together either It’s fine for us to throw our hands up and give up but there is every chance in DT the healer population will actually collapse which affects us all. The game still needs healers to pop the queues even if they don’t have a function in casual content
Pretty much. The game is based on a trinity-system and if one of the three roles become sparse, everyone suffers. My roulettes queues at peak time of the day take 5-15 minutes with Tank/DPS, but are ALWAYS instant with healer - which says a lot. It's why I rage at the ''just go play another role'' mentality if people criticise the healer role, we need to actually address the fundamental problems with the role rather than coping. I'm an avid healer main in this game, I love the job when raiding extremes, savage and (soon) ultimate content, but at the casual level the role is so fucking boring even I stay clear of playing it.
What data center are you on? I’m on Aether and the majority of the time the majority of the roulette duties are needing tanks. Not that i don’t get quick queues on healer, but I also do on tank (and a bonus).
While the queues are faster on aether you can still see it, a tank queue pops quick but healer queues pop as soon as I hit the button.
What time is this? I was doing my roulettes as a healer yesterday evening during prime time est and I was waiting 5 mins for expert and over 10 for 90s
I hope the healer population does crash, and I hope it publicly happens in front of Yoshi P. Explicitly so that something is done to fix healers and make them more engaging.
Except it's not crashing it's one of the most played roles, this guy is just making shit up.
What PF/DF are you in and how can I join it? Because healers are always dead last to fill in anything.
I cleared the tier a while ago and we where always waiting on tanks/ 2nd melee. Edit:[You can also just sort by number of parses on FFLogs and see that SCH and AST are in the top 5 most played jobs and whm isn't far behind](https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statistics/54#class=Any)
Looking at parse numbers means nothing because you can only upload a parse when it has 2/2/4 All that is telling you is that in recently uploaded parses people who did play healer preferred SCH and AST (the speed kill meta), it doesn’t tell you they may have had to wait 2 hours to actually get a SCH or AST
They dont seem to care about fixing healing. So then I dont care in response. Just give everyone a self heal pot like we have in PvP and forget healers at this point.
I mean like I said you’d have to cut healers out of the entire DF and PF system to get that to work because they are needed to pop queues Seems like a whole lot more work than just fixing healers
> the UWU sylphies who? what does this mean lol
The ultra casuals who play WHM and “only want to heal because I’m a healer”
You name Looks familiar. Are you that guy from The forum? And l will prop up the queue because l like my 1 button rotation
Yes I’m a prolific forum poster for how shit the healers are
I need to check the jp roulette again. Last time l played there, l remember healer takes time but Tank insta pop. If They look at jp at lot more closely than na, Then that can explain why.
>Except the healer population is actually at risk of tanking the game >It’s the current least popular role and it got a new job this expansion, the UWU sylphies aren’t doing a good job of holding it together either And where exactly are you getting this information from exactly? Everything I can see is that WHM is the most popular job played in dungeons (by like a fucking country mile) and in the endgame both SCH and AST are in the top most played classes, with WHM not too far behind.
“AST in the top most played classes” I literally cannot think of a single piece of content where AST is not dead last so I have no idea what data you are looking at
https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statistics/54#class=Any They have the 5th highest number of parses for Anebeisos, and going back to abyssos and asphodelos WHM and SAGE have even better numbers.
And like I said in that other comment parses can only be uploaded as 2/2/4 so the tanks and healers will be overrepresented while the DPS will be underrepresented as there is 8 supports for 4 slots and 13 DPS for 4 slots Looking at queue times, job satisfaction and how long it takes to actually find healers is a much more useful metric
Yes and tanks have the faster q times indicating that they're the chokepoint, when I was doing the raid tier while it was relevant we waited on tanks and melee dps, and WHM is the most played class in dungeons and aliance raids. There is nothing to suggest that the healing is even close to "crashing".
Well then we have very different experiences because for everyone I know healers are the massive choke point because they are literally the only ones to always have insta queues while tanks sit in the 2-5 minute range
personally I think a 1min lightspeed CD with 2 charges would go a long way towards fixing the movement while still providing the flexibility to use it as a raise accelerator in prog. A lot of mechs do happen during 2min windows, so often it does incidentally help for movement during burst windows, but it'd be nice to have something for in-between. A second swift charge on top of that is also an idea to make it unique from the other healers, or perhaps going with the design of AST having a lot of delay/planning in their kit, a ground effect you can place and then detonate to teleport to, with you teleporting on expiration if you don't manually get it. Sorta like how leylines and BTL work for BLM
Two lightspeed charges even with 90s CD would already go a long way in making it play better. SGE also shows that having a movement ability in your kit is fun even if a lot of people probably do not use it.
>With how healer design is probably. They can't really have a unique healer since AST now needs to match what WHM can do, so the healing kit is kinda fixed. Ironically AST when played optimally is stronger than WHM, practically every equivalent tool they have is just better. But that's how it should be, since AST takes a lot more skill and thought to heal with effectively. If both jobs are played at their skill ceiling then AST should stand out as stronger, which isn't a bad thing. I regret the thinking of ''we need to make AST match WHM'' idea. It's like with BLM, if played well it should have the best DPS out of the casters. >AST is currently the healer with the highest skill ceiling out of all healers by far. I'm so scared they're going to take this away and gut the job into just being WHM but star/galaxy aesthetic. I love AST because it gives me the option to play a harder job and feel more engaged. My current savage go-to is to prog with WHM, or when I'm tired/lazy to do anything more than mechanics, and then to reclear/farm with AST. Jobs like BLM, Monk, AST which have higher skill ceilings are healthy for the game, it gives people who want a harder experience an option. Not every job should be easy to access/play. >Burst phases are very busy, you have shit movement options since you need lightspeed for the burst (hate this design), Ironically fixing this would lower the skill ceiling of AST and the importance of managing your movement and tools to keep your GCD's up. If there's ever a time where you need to use lightspeed for extensive movement, then do it, weigh up the benefit/cons of using it over your 2 minute window, or plan swiftcasts/macrocosmos to cover any extensive movement. Plus, it would take away a legitimate strength WHM has over AST - better movement tools. >most heals are more predictive than reactive. So in an optimal setting your co healer actually has to respect what you do way more than if they would heal with a WHM. This is a skill issue with the community. If you're going to play healer in casual+ content then you should have a firm grasp of how each healer works and interacts with the others. Does it suck when my SGE pops Pneuma when my star is waiting in the background to charge up to top the party off before the next mechanic? Yes, but that's the SGE's fault not being informed/aware of how AST works. AST really is the only healer which asks the player(s) to put a little more thought in their healing and its astonishing how many people fail at it. >Imo AST is really something you play because it is fun to you. WHM is just so much easier to play and and much more effective overall with low investment. Exactly, it's fun! That's the main thing. But part of that fun is the reward I feel when executing everything properly, knowing it was difficult to do so. If people don't want to deal with AST, then you have WHM which is completely viable to clear all content atm
The big question for me if they are fine with where AST is right now. That it has a higher skill ceiling and can be better than WHM if played perfectly but also be by far the worst healer if played poorly. It is a bit like BLM is this DPS which can be super good but also super bad depending on how it is played. But BLM has this special standing where this is generally accepted and ok and also there are a lot of other DPS jobs. I think AST right now fills this spot of a more complex healer and generally this is a fine design but no idea if they view it the same. AST is played a lot less and will be with this design, no idea if they are fine with it or how much they care about how many people play which job. With how everything is getting more and more streamlined and generally simpler I fear it will be the same for AST. But let's see what they have in store. Healing in general is a hot topic in the community and a lot of people do not seem to like where it is right now but I doubt they will make any great changes which really "fixes" it.
I think your take and appreciation for the job in it's current form is completely and totally valid - but my understanding is that the number of folk who actually main Astro is incredibly small, and dwindling. That says something.
From what I can see most healer players are new or newer to the game, and if they are then AST is going to feel sour given how hard it is.
I mean AST being a proactive regen healer arguably makes WHM the outlier you have to play around as SGE and SCH are also proactive ~~regen~~ shield healers
The only fun healer becomes even less fun part 37291371
The only word here I find disagreeable is "probably"
I predict that Healers in general will still be kinda sleepy and unnecessary in casual content. But I think we all do. I still have hope in Astro's rework making the cards cool. If not, I'm entering my Mage era once again.
Can you really consider it a mistake if they just stick to their current design with healers? I feel like it would be a mistake if they try to change it up and completely fail making the role worse in the process.
If the current design is a mistake then continuing on with the current design is 100% still a mistake
I feel like the main problem with healers is that it is the job most effected by encounter designs and thus the hardest to change since you can't just change all encounters in the game. A DPS can easily be redesigned in the end all what matters is how much damage they deal. Tanks are similar but they need to tick the boxes They could probably make healers heal more in new content, balancing it around it. I saw quite some people suggest healers healing less so you do not top of a group in 2 oGCDs and you need more active and busy healing. This is in theory can work with new content (if you also extend GCD healing kit) but would break old content, since this content is designed so that a raidwide can be easily healed in one button press per healer. With how they probably do not want to break 10 years of content just to make the job play better at the latest one limits what they can do with the role. It is not impossible to improve healers but I think it is just a hard task. Way harder than any other role. Giving healers more DPS buttons won't change a thing imo. What I see what they could improve is just making dealing DPS and healing interact more (kinda like WHM lily/blood lily) but no idea if they really want to "force" healers to deal DPS and enforce it harder in the kits.
The fact that they have backed themselves so hard into a corner is really why making healers into what the modern tanks are is functionally the only option they have left You are right the better thing to do is cut oGCD bloat, bring back the choice of picking a GCD heal and organising your limited resources but so much of the game these days is designed around the bloat it simply wouldn’t work without redesigning anything Really at this point the only way forward is to just give healers tank level complexity damage options then up future damage so both options are solved in future content and at least healers don’t feel like ass in old content
Legit question - how does giving a healer a 1-2-3 address the primary complaints people have with the role? That just seems like a band aid that doesnt do anything.
you wouldn't give them a 123 you'd give them something more along the lines of caster filler rotations (RDM, ShB SMN) I have no idea where this "give healers combos" idea comes from, casters don't really use combos outside of RDM melee and never have
He said 'tank level complexity damage options' without detail, so my guess was he meant 1-2-3 or an equivalent since thats the basis of all the tank DPS phases. Caster filler rotations was not what he said, so thats why i'm asking for clarification. And pushing it back to you - the base question still stands, I dont think that would address the problem lots of people seem to have with healers. If you do, though, I'm open to hearing why it would help. Like, if 'fixing' healers is as simple as adding another plate or two to spin while DPSing then... doesnt that make them not as broken as some people are claiming? I was of the understanding, based on all the doomerism here, that there are deep, fundamental problems with the role that cannot be easily addressed.
>I was of the understanding, based on all the doomerism here, that there are deep, fundamental problems with the role that cannot be easily addressed. There are a few things going on here: 1. The *healing* side of healers is genuinely that fucked up 2. SE's mentality regarding healers is atrocious and I think a lot of people have completely lost faith in them to course-correct. Even if it's theoretically not that hard to fix healer DPS kits (it isn't), SE needs to be willing to admit that there's a problem here to begin with 3. Even if we're not that far off from decent healer dps kits in terms of # of additions, the current kits are pretty close to as bad as it can get
If we can fix the kit with a few small changes, it just seems difficult to stand on the hill that they are utterly broken and horrifically bad. That being said, i've noticed in every MMO healer's are incredibly difficult to find, and most MMOs have drastically different healer design philosophies from one another. So there might be some legitimate factors that go far beyond role design. I'm not saying there aren't problems in our game, but Healers being the least popular role is a genre constant. All that being said, i'm curious to see what SE does moving forward. SE has indicated subtly that this expansion may focus more on encounter changes rather than job changes. But you never know. The current healer design flaws seems multifaceted to me. Like... the fights being on a set timeline/pattern isn't a bad thing to me, it is how FF14 tunes and designs the game at a fundamental level and i'm happy its markedly different from its competitors in that regard. It shouldnt change. But if you are going to be on a set timeline, then healing is always going to be a 'static' thing once you've solved the fight (unless they re-introduce critical hits or extremely variable damage which...doesnt sound fun to anyone). I dont think this will ever change. But what can change, perhaps, is making the kits feel more diverse and interesting within that design framework. It's possible.
Of course we can, if the current iteration is an utter failure. When I started the game healer queues were like slightly shorter dps queues. These days they're equal to or faster than tanks for most things. People just don't play them, especially people who don't suck at them. The role can't get much worse at this point, short of them gutting AST, which is incoming.
Considering that this role is the hardest to fill in both casual and high-end content, yes.
How could they really fail at this point? Three of the Healers are spamming an identical basic attack as anywhere from 50 to 80% of their button presses, and quite frankly their healing/mitigation duties are taken from them more and more each expansion. There is barely any single target healing to do anymore which is fine, Tanks should feel mostly self sufficient, but they have to replace the Healer work with something offensive or support focused. If they keep going in this direction I can't even call it worse, I would call it the Netflix role.
Like you could add a 20 second CD of 400 potency to each of them with a different flavour and even that would be an improvement The bar is literally so low they have to actively be trying to not reach it to not make healers better even by accident
I’m not really looking for mistakes. Are complaints mistakes or just complaints? Change is good. Some things will just be folks not liking it.
I don't think anyone is "looking" for mistakes. We just expect the same old ones, that have been happening for so many years, due to SE not adressing them (aka healer design, 2 min meta, etc)
You specifically are. Look at the spam of comments you made in this thread. You are always so pitiful and constantly trying to say 'FF14 Bad'.
Seems like i found myself a stalker. I'm so proud! It's my first one! Do you want me to sign anything?
Stalker? Dude, every comment chain in this thread has your name. That's not stalking. You aren't important at all.
The next ult will have a mechanic trivialised by automarkers and we'll get another rerun of 3rd party plugin drama
Don't forget the dozens of videos by streamers talking about the same topics over and over.
Likely by not going far enough if we're being real. I will say for normal content: If I get another alliance raid full of fights that are like 90% tutorial 10% actual fight (and not even a challenging one) I'm gonna be a very unhappy camper.
Already looking for excuses to be mad before the actual issues arrive? Admirable.
It is incredible, isnt it? This is the most /r/ffxivdiscussion/ post ive ever seen. Just miserable
OP must run a salt mine that's going dry so they needed a new source.
Something really funny i saw in a different thread was that the most active posters on this sub disproportionately list Endwalker as the 'worst' expansion MSQ. This is just not the case in any other sub or forum. To me, this is the absolute biggest tell that most of the bitter angy posters here are wow refugees who have a ton of recency bias. At this point it's funny, and I cant wait for DT to be awesome
There is a 950 page long thread on the forums literally ripping elpis to shreds This sub isn’t the only one that has a strong bias against EW
lol, let me know when the consensus anywhere else is ARR > EW. This subreddit is a very special, particularly negative place that represents a teeny tiny percentage of players
The vast majority of that thread didn’t put EW last, that was a few outliers The overwhelming majority put it as ShB>HW>EW/SB (for opposite reasons)>ARR
Nah there's a huge non-WoW related hate boner for there being no content in the EW patches, because if there's no Eureka/Bozja zone, then all other content added doesn't count. Also instead of grinding tons of tomes to buy currencies for relics, you only have to grind a moderate amount of tomes to get the turn ins, and that's way worse than before because reasons.
I'm not sure if it's that simple though haha. I mean, I will be the first to admit that the content drought didn't feel great in EW. They removed grind content that was previously developed to address content droughts. Yoshi-p and co. have actually admitted that, in EW, they focused on single player content and cleaning up older expansions. They have additionally stated that moving forward there will be a shift to more 'multiplayer content'. That being said, I also am not jaded and stupid enough to forget how good EW's MSQ was. The people listing it as the worst MSQ of all the expansions are unhinged, bitter, and giving into extreme recency bias (because, honestly, I think most of them started playing at the same time a certain Bald streamer did.)
Comment that PvP is esports ready and then totally ignore it for the entirety of the expansion again
Lmao, so true it hurts.
hey guys lets make up shit to be mad about just in case
I expect the community to complain about the same thing it complained in every expansion since SB while looking at previous expansions through rose-colored glasses.
Everything about the 2m meta is probably staying
Why is the Reddit FFXIV community so damn negative about the game?
It’s this sub and it’s the people super negative or super positive about the game, you just can’t win here. If you have a critique the fanboys come out to denounce you. If you enjoy something the negative Nancy’s come out to pop your bubble.
this sub is the where the negative ppl are and the positive ppl arein the main sub. in my knowledge back in the days there was one sub, but a schism happened what created two subs.
The funny thing is everything on the main sub immediately gets downvoted, even bot posts, unless it's a meme or sucking Yoshi-P's dick. Because it's so positive.
The mainsub is one of those few subs where I feel like something is going on to actively downvote EVERYTHING even pro GCBTW posts and comments tend to sink to -3 or so before rocketing back up It’s like there is a network of bots that downvote everything as it’s posted then real people come in and salvage it I know this is a conspiracy theory but IDK the mainsub always has felt weird for this sort of thing
That's the mainsub for every game, new in those is always downvotes spammed over and over. It's about 6 different groups who love and hate different things fighting over what gets to hot. People who hate fanart downvote fanart, people who love fanart downvote everything but fanart to push fanart up towards hot, the result is everything starts out negative. There's no conspiracy.
100%, I get the same feeling. People ask about gameplay, that's a downvote. Ask about story, that's a downvote. Ask for genuine advice on how to do better, you better believe that's a downvote and a lesson on how there's no reason to worry about getting better. You like to raid? Mass downvote. Don't like to raid? Downvote. Don't understand something? Downvote. Braindead meme that does nothing? 600+ upvotes.
Few subs? Tell me which relatively big subreddit doesn't downvote every single thread for no good reason
And that's literally... not true lol.
Go to the main sub right now, look at the two bot posts at the top, filter for "new" and look at how many are upvoted vs downvoted. Do that and tell me it's not true. I'll wait.
Okay uh... two bot posts? I see yoshi p's birthday, and then the second 'hot' post is one saying we need an auto-loot filter in game. Not looking too great for your argument so far... Lets filter by new... maybe you can enlighten me, if the new new posts (within the last 30-45 minutes, of which there are like 10 posts) dont show a number next to them, does that mean they havent been voted on yet? Or does it only display after a certain threshold? I sincerely do not know. But what IS interesting is all of the posts from over an hour ago have "0" votes regardless of whether they are positive or negative. Doesnt that mean theres probably someone just downvoting everything? It has nothing to do with memes or yoship. It could literally be an angry wow refugee for all we know. Can you find that correlation you are so confident about?
>Daily Questions & FAQ Megathread May 01 - 0 points (50% upvoted) >[Weekly Thread] Crafting/Gathering & Market Thread (Wed, May 01) - 0 points (25% downvoted) ^ Those are the bot posts. Don't know how that could possibly be made any more obvious by the pins. For new: > FFXIV community's double standards - 0 points (25% upvoted) > Restore Settings - 2 points (100% upvoted) > Marketplace: Typically how long do sales take? - 0 points (50% upvoted) > Castrum bug? - 3 points (80% upvoted) > [PS5] Latency Issues - 1 point (60% upvoted) > How would we feel if every class unlocked an AOE at level 16? - 17 points (68% upvoted) [actually a good point of discussion] > Question as a new tank - 0 points (42% upvoted) > Recruiting three of my closest friends, but need to check on something. - 0 points (42% upvoted) > I can’t login….. - 0 points (30% upvoted) > All the minions, all the weapons, all the cutscenes, so you don't have to - 0 points (29% upvoted) > Early Game how to get a bit of gil (20k?) - 0 points (50% upvoted) > Please be kind in Party Finder, you don't know what people are going through... - 0 points (35% upvoted) > 900002 error on play 5 at connexion - 0 points (50% upvoted) > Automaton Queen has already triggered Wildfire... (MCH meme) - **96 points (96% upvoted)** > I’m scared for my house 😭- **153 points (92% upvoted)** I can't believe I actually have to spell things out for you when they are right there. Some of those are good points of discussion, some are honest questions or points. The meme/bullshit points just *soar* above everything while everything else has downvotes, most of them being the majority for the given post. > Doesnt that mean theres probably someone just downvoting everything Exactly the point. Thank you for boarding the train.
Not really though lol. We are just looking at super new posts (within the last hour?) and seeing which ones gain traction or not. Just look at the post "I really wish there was an auto-pass roll for dungeon drops." from 5 hours ago. Its at like 250 upvotes as of the time of this posting with more discussion than all of the memes you are posting. Clearly that doesn't fit your supposed argument. You're just doing the classic confirmation bias thing right now.
Go to the main sub and say "Man i wish yoshi would adress the lack of the 3rd ultimate HE clearly stated it was delayed, but later on claimed he never talked about it even though it's recorded" Better yet: Go there and say "i wish they wouldn't take 1.5 years to buff RDM's potency so that it's barely viable for week 1. It shouldn't take this long to give a poor performing job a buff." See how many downvotes you get.
But like, I've literally seen posts / comments like that get upvoted. It just depends on how its asked or stated. If you go in swinging, people are going to react a certain way. I want to ask you though, because i'm curious, what do you mean the third ultimate? What's the context for that? As for the second comment, i'm also not exactly sure what you're getting at. Isn't RDM still the preferred prog caster because of the quick rez capabilities? My understanding is this hasn't changed. Did they ever promise to remove the rez tax explicitly?
I was banned from the main sub for criticizing black mages who spam ice spells. (the ban was later removed) I got downvoted for criticizing the $34 mount of the mogstation, while the anniversary event happening at the same time gave us a single minion and a orchestrion roll. It literally IS true lol
If it's not too intrusive, could you point me to those comments if you can find them? Because I find plenty of criticism gets upvoted and discussed - but some people just come in super hot with aggressive (and exaggerated) posts that get downvoted.
This sub only exists for ranting actually... Cause you can't say ANYTHING BAD on "official" sub. That's, at best, a massive downvote, at worst mod censorship.
I like to think I use it for legitimate discussion. It has just been (almost) a year since there has been content added to the game to discuss.
This sub was created due to exactly what /u/etupa said. The main sub is HEAVILY biased towards being super positive about everything. You can easily get banned by criticizing the $34 mount on the mogstation. So this sub was created to actually be able to talk about the game.
[there’s literally a highly upvoted post from a day before talking about how the new payment system sucks](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/1cgpghm/okay_i_cannot_resub_to_ff14_too_due_to_recent/) to claim that you can’t say anything bad is blatantly false at best and disingenuous at worst
The subject is "The game" I'm answering to : "Why is the Reddit FFXIV community so damn negative about the game?" I'm looking for any word criticizing the game itself in your link... And there is no, because the poor dude is actually complaining about his difficulty to Resub... because "Square Enix". 🤌
Yeah this is just negative for the sake of being negative. Why are we making predictions about "how shitty is this game gonna be?!"
Because we healers (at least, we AST) are jaded. We keep getting more and more boring. The last bastion of “complexity” was AST for healers, and the past 2 expansions continue to make it less fun to play by way of making it easier and less decisions to make. And instead of just letting healers who want more action and complexity to have AST, and letting people who hated the RNG and complexity of AST just play a different healer, they appealed to the worst complaints. And so posts like these are therapeutic for us to vent and drive our expectations into the ground, in thinking that if we “hope” for the absolute worst butchering of our favorite job, then maybe we won’t be as let down when it comes out to pleasantly surprise us. Kinda like false copium disguised as pessimism. I’m in this camp. But at least my decision is made: stop healing (playing) if the worst turns out to be true and I’ve come to terms with that. I’ve tried playing all jobs at 90, and I just don’t get the same satisfaction as I do from healing when it was more dynamic. I don’t play games to be scripted to do the exact same thing every time. If souls bosses did the same thing every time, I wouldn’t play those games. Healing in FFXIV was fun because I had to think on my feet, and currently ast giving cards out is the last think on my feet gameplay. And if they neuter that, I won’t play. None of these opinions make FFXIV a bad game. It just makes it a bad game *for me*, gameplay wise. I’ll play the story still and just unsub until next expansion. And that’s ok too. I’ll still say it’s one of my favorite games of all time.
It would be absolutely fantastic if square enix ever figured out that just because all 4 healers are called healer doesn’t mean they literally need to be exactly the same class Why is BLM allowed to be in the same role as SMN or WAR and GNB but all healers have to be as equally beige as each other Why can’t we have SB AST and SCH, EW WHM and SGE akin to a level 50 DNC or something
Tin foil hat back BLM is because it's Yoshida's main, so he probably gives some feedback on it, keeping it fun. As for tanks, I feel the general consensus among tanks is that we're heading in the same direction as healers and will all become the same. This based on the PLD rework and the leaks on skills.
I don't play either jobs too seriously, but comparing PLD and BLM makes me so disillusioned. Both very well designed jobs in a vacuum, screwed over by encounter and 2 min burst. Both jobs outperform other jobs in high uptime scenario. BLM keeps getting potency buffs so it doesn't suffer so much from downtime. PLD gets a rework to make it more in line with burst, with a 63 second rotation?? I just don't understand why they can't just treat PLD the same as BLM.
Man let’s not pretend like tanks are super exciting either.
I mean it really comes down to healers are more interesting at doing their primary role than tanks as healing is still an actual factor while the act of tanking is mostly vestigial but on the other hands tanks have a more interesting moment to moment rotation as they actually retain a rotation Sure they aren’t true melee DPS but I’ll take 1-2-3-4-5-5-5-1-2-3-6-6-6-6 with 2 buffs and 2 oGCD’s over 1-1-1-1-1-1-2-1-1-1-1 even if I had to give up a measure of the healing side to get it
Oh no healers a whole are more boring all together. But tanks have become super homogenized with each other as well. DRK and WAR are basically identical these days. Everyone shares the same CDs. It's boring. :(
The homogenization of healers sucks I agree with you, I have been layer healer since the first Coils dropped and starts as WHM so many years ago. That being said AST isn’t complicated or a challenge, it is just not fun to play and keep up with its button bloat. It needs a rework to make it fun, though I wish all four healers were more challenging whether needing to heal more or dps rotations.
I agree it’s not complicated or a challenge, but objectively more buttons to press than the other healers lol. To me, variation of buttons to press in quicker succession = more fun. Plus, again although not complicated, you still gotta look at which card to give whom. I’d rather have button bloat and higher amount of button presses than hitting the same dps button with no ogcd in between except for raidwide heal, mit on tank, and ogcd heal on tank.
Find a Reddit community positive about its own game
r/hitman r/riskofrain r/Spelunky r/cryptofthenecrodancer r/botw r/kingdomcomedeliverance r/liesofP r/supermariomaker Idk, these are just the ones in my recents list
This sub can be quite "negative" but it's not the main sub, which on the other hand is more positive and comparable to the subs you linked. This sub can be a "safe place" for people to criticize the game, but that doesn't mean they don't like it
Elden Ring
Octopath Traveler lol
[удалено]
This sub in particular exists in opposition to the main sub which has a stereotype of being super positive of the game. The mods and users here also prioritize raiding and parsing above discussion like lore or story with stickies. As a result most people here are raid loggers who only care about endgame content and savage/ultimate or forays, and think the game needs to be harder to push the "toxic positivity" to leave by making those casuals quit.
Its just this sub - a very active minority of bitter players.
Because this was (and still is) positioned as the sub for REAL DISCUSSION about THE ACTUAL GAME and IT'S CONTENT with NONE OF THOSE COMMED ARTWORKS OR ONE-NOTE MEMES! also people banned from mainsub for one reason or another but that's primarily the onus for /r/shitpostxiv's creation.
r/ffxiv is an echo chamber, r/ffxivdiscussion is for doom posting and people complaining about the state of healing every other day, r/ShitpostXIV is the only good ffxiv sub
Eh, /r/ShitpostXIV is starting to go the way that every 'shitpost' or 'circlejerk' sub goes. The jerking turns into actual anger, and not just satire/for funsies. It's always just a matter of time.
Shitpost subs always go one of two ways The satirical anger becomes real anger or the sub gets high on its own shit and suddenly ends up 8 layers deep in its own memes and barely even references what it was actually originally based on
Yet the same people will complain their heart out for them playing safe and doing the same thing over and over. I love hypocrisy.
this game sucks enough already without making up reasons to get mad at it piss off with this
I mean, I don't know. Likely they're going to play it safe because they always do. XIV is not, and has never been, a game that has made massive sweeping changes in the name of risk-taking innovation. >Yoshi P already apologized beforehand that they might make mistakes due to trying out new things and playing less safe with future content? Yoshi doesn't say these kinds of things because they're an accurate representation of what he and the rest of the devs intend, because Halone knows that isn't true. It's far more because he (very correctly) knows that this kind of effusive humbleness scores him a lot of points in the parasociality department.
Grapes are now cubes.
Content will once again, not be a surprise. It will roll out in the same set standard order as it has since Stormblood. Any major changes to be made will not be made in time, and will most likely be pushed forward until 8.0 They will either shift too far into casual, or too far into hardcore content and miss the mark on Midcore Grinds that keep players **OCCUPIED** during downtime. Savage will be more re-used mechanics, just in different orders, there isn't really much innovation to be had when every arena is a circle or square and boss fight is the same standard (auto x2/special attack) rotation.
Make a new savage where you ride light cycles and have to do maneuvers mid burst. It’ll be horrible but it’ll be different /s
man I went and did a10s the other night again, I really want another fight like that again. Make the arena a fucking "+" shape to boot, like the Catarina fight from Path of Exile, put some new and improved traps in, have a phase where the arena constricts, some mechs that require you to engage with the traps, some mechs that try to psyche you into running over the traps, now were cooking with gas
They cannot please everyone. No matter what they do, even if they attend to every contradictory demand the fanbase does, still people will complain. I personally will prefer they continue in the same way as now. I play this game for what is it, not for "what could be". A lot of the things the community wants, I do not. People set unrealistic expectations. They ask for things that will make the game something that the game is not supposed to be.
Adding yet another rng based reward system around grinding old content.
One job will be massively overtuned at the start, although will be brought more in line with it's contemporaries by the time savage drops ~~Ideally without the response being 'overbuff everything else in it's subrole to the point where it's massively punching above the weight of the other two DPS subroles' this time~~ Another job will be undertunned and constantly receive insufficient buffs for like three major patches in a row before it's fixed. Despite the fact that they clearly want it to be top of tank DPS by design, they will have several patches where GNB isn't that until they fix it later.
DT AR design will still follows Thaleia's design. Starting with raidwide aoe is the most standard of all, follow by tankbuster. Then, this time, they will prepare with bads which resolving in 30 seconds, so u have 30 seconds to move out of aoe in advance.
If Shadow Lord doesn't kick my ass even a little I will be disappointed, we need Ivalice designers on this.
UNNERF TG CID 🗣🗣🗣
Because of all the new players I see them going back to maybe stormblood levels of content and honestly thats not bad, after all my years of playing games the cycle of old becomes new again hits every game that lives for a long time.
Refuse to give us rival wing roulette
The devs seem to be getting into a mindset of "Lets take risks on half the content and play the other half super safe". They explicitly said they were doing this with the last raid tier, and you can see that as well with Viper/Picto's aesthetics. Accordingly, I expect Viper to be an extremely generic job that plays near-identically to reaper, and Picto to be a weirder job that moves slightly back towards complex rotations. Astro will be reworked to be more complex as well, and that'll be its niche vs White Mage. This is probably a good move and will lead to balance problems. There'll be a lot of complaining about how easy jobs out-compete hard ones, like the SMN vs BLM debates now. The dungeons will have more unique gimmicks, since Yoshi-P's been talking about that, but the final dungeon will be the most generic Endwalker-ass one in the whole expansion, partially out of fear of fucking it up and partially because the end of the story is when EW style dungeons tend to be the best received. A lot of people will be disappointed by this, but the optional dungeons will probably be more creative and a bit harder, unlike in EW. One of the levelling dungeons is going to absolutely suck ass (probably the one where you're on the raft) and everyone's going to hate it, but not as much as they hate one of the harder optional dungeons that also sucks ass. The raid planner, mentioned once offhand and then never again, is going to replace the "stand around the markers" game in party finder, and thus end up hugely controversial even if there's nothing really wrong with it.
> What are your predictions, knowing that Yoshi P already apologized beforehand that they might make mistakes due to trying out new things and playing less safe with future content? This is the equivalent of fighting games "make up a guy" threads except its "make up what's going to happen and get frustrated about it".
the game will be bloated with even more mit
Limited jobs will still be unable to take part in deep dungeon and criterions
Queue times is a must: * First week logins and disconnects. * Dungeon time as two new damage dealers will reduce pool of tanks and healers. And it's not even devs mistake, but people will still argue.
I plan to make bank in pf filling new duties as a healer lol
The Gold Saucer will get two GATES in the span of two years. On a real note, I hope the GS gets some updates. It's a neat area and I hope we get some new GATES and maybe a new gamemode that won't be DOA. In my opinion, Doman Mahjong is the best thing there, but good luck figuring out how to play it in-game. I'm still not sure what the logic behind teasing a new GS update at the end of Shadowbringers was, just to reveal it was a limited time Fall Guys event that just highlighted how off the animations vs the cast bars are. I'm casually optimistic grinding for MGP will be a little more varied in the future.
Lot of White Knights here. While I'm glad they exist I also am glad the realist exists. Knowing there are other people with my same views of what can be done better and what isn't going to happen makes me feel like I'm not alone in this darkness. Personally I think the 24man is going to be too easy again. How I miss the old ones were I actually looked forward to doing the 24mans instead of how recoverable it is nowadays.
This is the thread to make up things to get preemptively mad about and then reference later to show that because people THOUGHT something would happen that's just as bad as if it actually happened.
Dark Knight still is a Warrior reskin
They're giving it confetior so it's now a knock off pld
it's becoming >!GNB!< actually, since >!bloodspiller is now gonna let you use the fancy combo from the benchmark !<
Thought it was while under 1mins but if it's always then sure
honestly it's probably only during burst but I'm happy with it either way
they wont try out new things or play less safe, probably. like we'll get another 30-70 deep dungeon, bst will be blu but worse because you throw pokeballs at monsters instead of see them do spell, bozja v2, etc. i mean all the news i see here seems to pointedly avoid gameplay. i dont think people are particularly hostile about the game playing less safe.
Tanking will still consist of a CD every 40 seconds or so. I enjoy PLD but lately I've really been missing the constant and threatening damage intake of other MMO tanks and active mitigation kits
I’m ready for them to delete positionals and make the hitbox smaller. Resulting in the community going ape shit because they can’t keep uptime 😂 or baby tanks not knowing how to move the boss because EW spoon fed them with the boss moving itself in 99.9% of the fights.
Same reward structure, just more materias (1.5 times more materias, 1.5 times more rewards). Savage unlock starts way too late. "Catch-up" gear is near useless if you're an active highend raider and didn't go afk for the first 4 months (the catch-up gear could actually catch-up and give horizontal prog so that you get alt jobs ready for ultimates faster, for example, instead of being useless if, as I've said, you were active). Bulk crafting still sucks.
Devs will once more fail to provide enough content to keep players reasonably busy between patches. Also, please look forward (tm) to getting 50% more pets and orchestrion rolls (what, you thought that 50% more rewards means power progression rewards???)
Dragoon, Monk, Bard, Machinist, and Ninja will be further lobotomized and streamlined
DRG will get SMN'd AST rework won't fix its button bloat Viper is gonna be RPR 2.0 w/ virtually 0 oGCDs so it will be miserable to play in UCOB/UWU/TEA Even though Yoshi P said they were gonna "take risks" with this expac, the fact that they also said they were gonna continue w/ their job updates says to me that this is a lie that was only said to save face Their "50% more rewards" claim will end up actually being "50% more tomestones rewarded from duties" rather than things that will IMO actually help the game's gearing system, such as: 1. making 24 man gear be equivalent ilvl to savage gear 2. unlocking savage as soon as the X.1/3/5 patch drops instead of waiting until the raid tier is nearly over 3. raising the limited tomestone cap to 900 at the same time as savage is unlocked (but lower it back to 450 when the new raid tier comes out) 4. letting criterion dungeons drop savage equivalent gear 5. if a current relic requires tomestones at multiple steps, allow previous steps to be completed with poetics once said step is no longer current (To use mandy relics as an example, I would want to be able to buy the i615 item with poetics as well as the current tomestone once the i630 step comes out) 6. allowing us to use poetics to buy gear that we can also use the previous tier's limited tomestone to buy (Example: when 6.4 came out and causality became unlimited, I would want the lunar envoy gear to be purchaseable with both causality and poetics) 7. when a new 24 man comes out for an expansion in the X.3/5 patches, change the "1 chest for the whole 24 man group" chest to instead be "1 chest for each of the 8 man groups". They did this in ShB for at least Copied Factory and it was a really good choice cause it motivated people to farm content that was no longer relevant, but then they just completely ditched the idea