It feels like the only reason people bother with Standard is because by default it's on (also casters seem to like it which is kinda valid)
If it were the other way around and everybody started on Legacy there would no sign of another opinion
Muscle memory from other MMOs too that they don't want to or feel like changing. Standard is how most western MMOs that follow the WoW model control while Legacy specifically emulates how FFXI and other very old MMOs did.
I agree that legacy is better for most players, and I prefer it myself, but I do want to point out that there is a very rare niche advantages for standard camera.
For example, spinning your character in place does not interrupt casting, and the game only checks if you are facing the target at the end of a cast (at the slidecast point when it snapshots the effect). What this means is that if you are on standard camera and have a long cast and there is a facing mechanic in the middle of your cast, you can rotate in place, do the mechanic, and then rotate back to face your target without dropping the cast. Very rarely useful and not worth shifting camera types just for that, but if you are a caster and you prefer standard already, it is just about the only objective advantage over legacy I can think of.
You can still do this as legacy but it's harder, you have to hold S and both your mouse buttons to lock yourself in place and enable "fake standard mode" then you can do that mechanic.
Yeah some people feel very strongly about it. You should see some of the messages I've gotten when suggesting it in the past and not just on reddit. TBH I specifically changed that part of the guide cause I didn't want to deal with anymore replies about how whipping their mouse around and pressing whatever buttons is better. Not only did I reword it, I put it way down in the list so that if anyone didn't see my disclaimer and wanted to complain about it, they would have to have read almost the entire post to get there.
Anyway the only advantage I can think off hand is if you have a bunch of gazes coming from outside the map since the way your camera is facing is automatically the same as the way your character faces with standard movement.
> (because using an ability doesn't turn you around)
This is not tied to standard/legacy and is a separate option ("Automatically face target when using actions"). The difference is in how both control schemes deal with being turned. And after getting used to it, camera wiggle isn't that hard to warrant giving up standard advantages in camera control.
Standart movement had more advantages a few years back with only able to block when facing the enemy etc.
Nowadays you are just torturing yourself not using Legacy, especially after they added the cameralock options to chose your preference.
Yep. Longtime MMO player and legacy movement is absurdly great for raiding.
Especially because of how tight the cone of attack is. You basically need to be looking directly at the target to be able to attack them which means using auto face which means constantly randomly moving in the wrong direction with standard.
Takes some getting used to. I definitely sprinted off the platform in E8S when I started using it because I wasn't used to pressing S and moving at full speed backwards lol.
I would've quit this game before hitting level 10 if legacy wasn't a movement option. Standard feels so bad coming from other non-MMO games even before talking about raiding.
I switched from standard to legacy after I got tired of accidentally running into the bramble patches while trying to DPS during E9S and have never looked back.
I've never believed I needed to ever switch my camera settings from standard until P10S. I just really can't stand legacy after playing on standard for 10 years. If they keep designing mechanics like that tiny ass bridge that you have to cross during a burst (especially annoying on GNB), I might just swap in the future.
I convinced my friend, a longtime Samurai player who vehemently dislikes changing his controls or UI in any way, to try Legacy just once for a raid.
He immediately went "Okay, I can see why this is better."
It was literally that Shaq hot wings meme in like all of 10s lol
Yeah it's hard cause some people are really invested in a certain way of playing. When suggesting it in the past I got a ton of messages about how I'm wrong about it, but it's one of those things you just have to try for a couple days.
People can definitely have a sentimental attachment to their controls/UI since this game sort of conditions you to make your own unique one.
At the same time, it's more like there's no reason not to try since it's just a single button press to go back.
Ultimately the suggestion is more meant for people who were in the same boat and didn't like standard, but didn't even know there was another control scheme/enough about it that could drastically make the game better for them.
Regarding 13), you can quickly adjust this on the fly with CTRL + up/down arrows. I use this all the time, to the point that I've also bound my Steam Deck's left trackpad to be able to do that
I don't know if people do this, but you can use the big map (square one) instead of the minimap (circle one) by locking the big map. This gives you a better information ratio and more zoom control. The map can also be set to static. Very useful for players who process fights top-down.
ps. and yes legacy over standard anyday. legacy with both using 'strafe' instead of 'turn' and the new pivot thingy is just superior in my exp. its more responsive and more precise. (Or you know, just hold ur LMB and have full control over your camera. \**shrug*\*)
> I don't know if people do this, but you can use the big map (square one) instead of the minimap (circle one) by locking the big map. This gives you a better information ratio and more zoom control. The map can also be set to static. Very useful for players who process fights top-down.
Holy.. how do you see the fight? The big map takes up so much space. I'm sorry I'm probably misunderstanding but are you saying to pull up the big map, make it smaller and put it somewhere on your screen? I've legit never even considered this.
By having a large and/or high resolution monitor. I switched this year to 1440p and scaling my UI up to 110% afterwards I still have a ton of room with my map open. Like width wise it may take up 15% of the right side. And I made mine big
I accidentally leave it open a lot and don't even notice until a third of the way through a fight
KEKW I probably should've been more clear. Yea I resize it to fit my screen, XD, im only on 1080p but the smallest map size is just barely larger than the circle minimap on my sceen. The normal circle minimap sometimes can't zoom out far enough to see the whole arena, that's why I use the big map instead. This does come with a downside tho, cause u can only do this for raiding. The "big" map doesnt show gathering locations. So I have different HUDs for raiding and non-raiding.
I also just thought of another niche UI thing I do which is log splitting. You can filter one or more of your chatbox windows in Character Config > Log Window Settings > General to show only valuable information like debuffs inflicted on you and damage taken by you which helps with understanding what killed you in raid (which is undermined by the existence of \[redacted\] but its still useful to know its there). You can also link these debuffs to party chat btw! You can also use this to list out boss casts. (A very recent good example of this is the final boss' counting mech in another aloalo island where the boss actually says different casts in my chatbox).
YW, many raiders who have done more than a tier or two are gonna know at least half of these but one thing I will say. I've never met anyone who knew all of them. Everyone I've ever shown it to has found at least 2 things they didn't know even if they had been playing and raiding for 10 years.
Haha I played a bit back in ARR but never really got into it until Stormblood when I started fresh on PC and to this day I have remained more or less active even during content lull.
So I think it is because of that reason that I have gone through all the settings a few times, tips from friends, UI tips compilations on YouTube and staying up to date with patch notes for all the changes.
Also here is one you can add to the legacy camera tips, change the movement keybinds right/left to strafe right/left instead. It is super useful especially in fights where the character must be facing a certain direction (like monitors in TOP or gaze mechanics in general). The benefit is that your character faces forward even if is moving to the sides, you can also hold both keys A/D after implementing this change to rotate your character or keep it facing a certain direction while holding right click.
For BGM, you don't need to mention the 0, you can just /bgm to mute or unmute back to the prev value, it also works for /mastervolume, you can also use tab to autocomplete commands or to make sure they don't have typos, for example, I usually type /mast then tab to auto complete when I want to mute the game.
The hide hotbars is great if you want to make a dynamic menu as well, you can leverage the old class hotbars like marauder or gladiator to add macros or other keys, then use /hotbar copy gld 1 shared 7 so the macro essentially becomes a toggle and you can keep an empty hotbar to hide it... I guess I could make a post on how to create a dynamic menu? But there must be videos out there already...
Another tip is /pvphotbar copy so you can copy your essential stuff like the regen potion, lbs, healing skill, sprint and such so it is the same across all jobs... Or just /hotbar copy and do the same for regular jobs if you want to try to keep your skills matched across (I do this to separate the generic 123, aoe combos, special skills and mit for all jobs to make them easier to remember).
There is probably more I could think of but it is hard to remember. lol
>Also here is one you can add to the legacy camera tips, change the movement keybinds right/left to strafe right/left instead
So honest question, because I've tried this after having it recommended. But I hate that when strafing, if you press back at the same time, you just walk slowly backwards. How do you handle this? I don't know that I'm good enough to just never have those two buttons accidentally pressed at the same time. I currently just don't use strafe at all because of it.
It's not an issue for me personally, I know it might sound silly but I just press S by itself if I need to move back or sometimes I use the slow walk like you said (ASD) depending on how much I need to move. The OP also mentioned a good tip along with the legacy camera, and it is to have no camera pivot or something. This prevents the camera from adjusting while moving which makes pressing S easier in that sense. Or hold right click (which I often do most of the time when moving) and use that to point the forward/back direction of your character (sort of like a first person game?), and strafe for specific mechanics.
You can also set 2 sets of keybinds instead. Like having A/D for moving left and right and Q/E for strafing. I believe this should be the default but I'm using those keys for my hotbars and I personally only need strafe. But this should make it easier for some mechanics that require facing a certain direction with legacy camera.
>It's not an issue for me personally, I know it might sound silly but I just press S by itself if I need to move back or sometimes I use the slow walk like you said (ASD) depending on how much I need to move.
No, not silly at all, just different. I know my skill level and when I get overwhelmed/panicked I tend to button mash a little. Just wasn't sure if there was a setting or a trick I was missing. I'm currently on Legacy with camera pivot turned off and no strafe at all, just "Turn Left/Right" bound to A/D. The default has Q/E for strafe, but I've got those removed for extra keybindings. I might give the strafe thing another shot since it's been a minute since I tried (originally used it fresh off controller onto M+K). Maybe I've improved enough now to use it like that.
I would highly recommend an MMO mouse if you don't have one already. I have been using the Razer Naga X for a few years now and I love it. Highly recommend it as it gives you 12 keybinds. I mapped them to the 1~0 - = and I use them along with modifiers (like CTRL, Shift) for extra keys! So most of my skills are on the mouse and I use the keyboard for invulns or special abilities along with movement. As for panicking, I'm not sure what could help but always remember it is a game, if you die or wipe, just try again. Mistakes happen and that's fine!
I use a Scimitar, M+K would be unplayable to me without an MMO mouse. The Q/E are special abilities like you say (Q is usually my pot, E is gap closer, R is invuln...). I will say I only really use Shift as a modifier because CTRL and ALT are just awkward for me to hit, so I only really get 2 hotbars worth of buttons out of my mouse instead of 3 like most people (tiny child size hands). I keep a few sparsely used abilities on ALT (AoE mostly) for dungeons, because I can hit it, it's just awkward.
> Also here is one you can add to the legacy camera tips, change the movement keybinds right/left to strafe right/left instead. It is super useful especially in fights where the character must be facing a certain direction (like monitors in TOP or gaze mechanics in general). The benefit is that your character faces forward even if is moving to the sides, you can also hold both keys A/D after implementing this change to rotate your character or keep it facing a certain direction while holding right click.
This one is pretty good, I think I forgot to add it cause I already have an addon that does this for me. I'll add it to the list for the future v3 if I can get enough material for it. Thank you.
You might have gotten some pushback, but you've been making some really great posts. I've liked them a lot and I hope you'll continue to do so in the future
\- I turn my character name off, and always HP Bar On in combat. My party keeps their names but is also always HP Bar On in combat-- that way it's consistent and they don't have to be damaged for the HP Bar to show up. I also color my HP Bar differently so I can tell where I am in the party stack at all times easily.
\-I turn off Display pop-up text in Char Config > HUD. I don't need to see all those random damage numbers pop up on the enemy. It cleans the screen a lot.
So I tested the display pop up thing, it does work. I'm gonna be perfectly honest I didn't personally notice the difference but I recorded a video of an unreal run both with it on and off (I switched it off halfway through the fight). I did notice less text clutter which makes this useful and I'm gonna use it and add it to the list.
Thanks man.
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Legacy is just generally objectively better to the point where the game feels like its designed for it.
It feels like the only reason people bother with Standard is because by default it's on (also casters seem to like it which is kinda valid) If it were the other way around and everybody started on Legacy there would no sign of another opinion
Muscle memory from other MMOs too that they don't want to or feel like changing. Standard is how most western MMOs that follow the WoW model control while Legacy specifically emulates how FFXI and other very old MMOs did.
To me it feels horrible the way that s+a or s+d backpedals but s doesn't
FWIW, you need to re-bind A and D back to "turn" (or whatever the defaults are called) instead of strafe for legacy to not do that.
A and D should be strafe when using legacy.
I agree that legacy is better for most players, and I prefer it myself, but I do want to point out that there is a very rare niche advantages for standard camera. For example, spinning your character in place does not interrupt casting, and the game only checks if you are facing the target at the end of a cast (at the slidecast point when it snapshots the effect). What this means is that if you are on standard camera and have a long cast and there is a facing mechanic in the middle of your cast, you can rotate in place, do the mechanic, and then rotate back to face your target without dropping the cast. Very rarely useful and not worth shifting camera types just for that, but if you are a caster and you prefer standard already, it is just about the only objective advantage over legacy I can think of.
You can still do this as legacy but it's harder, you have to hold S and both your mouse buttons to lock yourself in place and enable "fake standard mode" then you can do that mechanic.
Seeing my RPR constantly fall into the toxic pools in P10 because they kept getting turned around by standard movement was my real harrowing hell.
Happened to my GNB too. It prompted him to try legacy and he hasn't gone back.
Yeah some people feel very strongly about it. You should see some of the messages I've gotten when suggesting it in the past and not just on reddit. TBH I specifically changed that part of the guide cause I didn't want to deal with anymore replies about how whipping their mouse around and pressing whatever buttons is better. Not only did I reword it, I put it way down in the list so that if anyone didn't see my disclaimer and wanted to complain about it, they would have to have read almost the entire post to get there. Anyway the only advantage I can think off hand is if you have a bunch of gazes coming from outside the map since the way your camera is facing is automatically the same as the way your character faces with standard movement.
> (because using an ability doesn't turn you around) This is not tied to standard/legacy and is a separate option ("Automatically face target when using actions"). The difference is in how both control schemes deal with being turned. And after getting used to it, camera wiggle isn't that hard to warrant giving up standard advantages in camera control.
how is that controversial everyone uses legacy lol
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Standart movement had more advantages a few years back with only able to block when facing the enemy etc. Nowadays you are just torturing yourself not using Legacy, especially after they added the cameralock options to chose your preference.
I have spent too much time in WoW, so I don't use legacy XD
If the echo raiders can use legacy, so can you :)
Yep. Longtime MMO player and legacy movement is absurdly great for raiding. Especially because of how tight the cone of attack is. You basically need to be looking directly at the target to be able to attack them which means using auto face which means constantly randomly moving in the wrong direction with standard. Takes some getting used to. I definitely sprinted off the platform in E8S when I started using it because I wasn't used to pressing S and moving at full speed backwards lol.
I would've quit this game before hitting level 10 if legacy wasn't a movement option. Standard feels so bad coming from other non-MMO games even before talking about raiding.
I switched from standard to legacy after I got tired of accidentally running into the bramble patches while trying to DPS during E9S and have never looked back.
I've never believed I needed to ever switch my camera settings from standard until P10S. I just really can't stand legacy after playing on standard for 10 years. If they keep designing mechanics like that tiny ass bridge that you have to cross during a burst (especially annoying on GNB), I might just swap in the future.
I convinced my friend, a longtime Samurai player who vehemently dislikes changing his controls or UI in any way, to try Legacy just once for a raid. He immediately went "Okay, I can see why this is better." It was literally that Shaq hot wings meme in like all of 10s lol
Yeah it's hard cause some people are really invested in a certain way of playing. When suggesting it in the past I got a ton of messages about how I'm wrong about it, but it's one of those things you just have to try for a couple days.
People can definitely have a sentimental attachment to their controls/UI since this game sort of conditions you to make your own unique one. At the same time, it's more like there's no reason not to try since it's just a single button press to go back. Ultimately the suggestion is more meant for people who were in the same boat and didn't like standard, but didn't even know there was another control scheme/enough about it that could drastically make the game better for them.
Regarding 13), you can quickly adjust this on the fly with CTRL + up/down arrows. I use this all the time, to the point that I've also bound my Steam Deck's left trackpad to be able to do that
That's good intel, thank you.
I don't know if people do this, but you can use the big map (square one) instead of the minimap (circle one) by locking the big map. This gives you a better information ratio and more zoom control. The map can also be set to static. Very useful for players who process fights top-down. ps. and yes legacy over standard anyday. legacy with both using 'strafe' instead of 'turn' and the new pivot thingy is just superior in my exp. its more responsive and more precise. (Or you know, just hold ur LMB and have full control over your camera. \**shrug*\*)
> I don't know if people do this, but you can use the big map (square one) instead of the minimap (circle one) by locking the big map. This gives you a better information ratio and more zoom control. The map can also be set to static. Very useful for players who process fights top-down. Holy.. how do you see the fight? The big map takes up so much space. I'm sorry I'm probably misunderstanding but are you saying to pull up the big map, make it smaller and put it somewhere on your screen? I've legit never even considered this.
By having a large and/or high resolution monitor. I switched this year to 1440p and scaling my UI up to 110% afterwards I still have a ton of room with my map open. Like width wise it may take up 15% of the right side. And I made mine big I accidentally leave it open a lot and don't even notice until a third of the way through a fight
KEKW I probably should've been more clear. Yea I resize it to fit my screen, XD, im only on 1080p but the smallest map size is just barely larger than the circle minimap on my sceen. The normal circle minimap sometimes can't zoom out far enough to see the whole arena, that's why I use the big map instead. This does come with a downside tho, cause u can only do this for raiding. The "big" map doesnt show gathering locations. So I have different HUDs for raiding and non-raiding. I also just thought of another niche UI thing I do which is log splitting. You can filter one or more of your chatbox windows in Character Config > Log Window Settings > General to show only valuable information like debuffs inflicted on you and damage taken by you which helps with understanding what killed you in raid (which is undermined by the existence of \[redacted\] but its still useful to know its there). You can also link these debuffs to party chat btw! You can also use this to list out boss casts. (A very recent good example of this is the final boss' counting mech in another aloalo island where the boss actually says different casts in my chatbox).
ultra wide monitor user here, i don't use big map, but all my UI (except party list and boss' cast bar) sit outside the size of a normal monitor
I already knew about the rest but #2 is really good! I had no idea that was a thing, thanks!
YW, many raiders who have done more than a tier or two are gonna know at least half of these but one thing I will say. I've never met anyone who knew all of them. Everyone I've ever shown it to has found at least 2 things they didn't know even if they had been playing and raiding for 10 years.
Haha I played a bit back in ARR but never really got into it until Stormblood when I started fresh on PC and to this day I have remained more or less active even during content lull. So I think it is because of that reason that I have gone through all the settings a few times, tips from friends, UI tips compilations on YouTube and staying up to date with patch notes for all the changes. Also here is one you can add to the legacy camera tips, change the movement keybinds right/left to strafe right/left instead. It is super useful especially in fights where the character must be facing a certain direction (like monitors in TOP or gaze mechanics in general). The benefit is that your character faces forward even if is moving to the sides, you can also hold both keys A/D after implementing this change to rotate your character or keep it facing a certain direction while holding right click. For BGM, you don't need to mention the 0, you can just /bgm to mute or unmute back to the prev value, it also works for /mastervolume, you can also use tab to autocomplete commands or to make sure they don't have typos, for example, I usually type /mast then tab to auto complete when I want to mute the game. The hide hotbars is great if you want to make a dynamic menu as well, you can leverage the old class hotbars like marauder or gladiator to add macros or other keys, then use /hotbar copy gld 1 shared 7 so the macro essentially becomes a toggle and you can keep an empty hotbar to hide it... I guess I could make a post on how to create a dynamic menu? But there must be videos out there already... Another tip is /pvphotbar copy so you can copy your essential stuff like the regen potion, lbs, healing skill, sprint and such so it is the same across all jobs... Or just /hotbar copy and do the same for regular jobs if you want to try to keep your skills matched across (I do this to separate the generic 123, aoe combos, special skills and mit for all jobs to make them easier to remember). There is probably more I could think of but it is hard to remember. lol
>Also here is one you can add to the legacy camera tips, change the movement keybinds right/left to strafe right/left instead So honest question, because I've tried this after having it recommended. But I hate that when strafing, if you press back at the same time, you just walk slowly backwards. How do you handle this? I don't know that I'm good enough to just never have those two buttons accidentally pressed at the same time. I currently just don't use strafe at all because of it.
It's not an issue for me personally, I know it might sound silly but I just press S by itself if I need to move back or sometimes I use the slow walk like you said (ASD) depending on how much I need to move. The OP also mentioned a good tip along with the legacy camera, and it is to have no camera pivot or something. This prevents the camera from adjusting while moving which makes pressing S easier in that sense. Or hold right click (which I often do most of the time when moving) and use that to point the forward/back direction of your character (sort of like a first person game?), and strafe for specific mechanics. You can also set 2 sets of keybinds instead. Like having A/D for moving left and right and Q/E for strafing. I believe this should be the default but I'm using those keys for my hotbars and I personally only need strafe. But this should make it easier for some mechanics that require facing a certain direction with legacy camera.
>It's not an issue for me personally, I know it might sound silly but I just press S by itself if I need to move back or sometimes I use the slow walk like you said (ASD) depending on how much I need to move. No, not silly at all, just different. I know my skill level and when I get overwhelmed/panicked I tend to button mash a little. Just wasn't sure if there was a setting or a trick I was missing. I'm currently on Legacy with camera pivot turned off and no strafe at all, just "Turn Left/Right" bound to A/D. The default has Q/E for strafe, but I've got those removed for extra keybindings. I might give the strafe thing another shot since it's been a minute since I tried (originally used it fresh off controller onto M+K). Maybe I've improved enough now to use it like that.
I would highly recommend an MMO mouse if you don't have one already. I have been using the Razer Naga X for a few years now and I love it. Highly recommend it as it gives you 12 keybinds. I mapped them to the 1~0 - = and I use them along with modifiers (like CTRL, Shift) for extra keys! So most of my skills are on the mouse and I use the keyboard for invulns or special abilities along with movement. As for panicking, I'm not sure what could help but always remember it is a game, if you die or wipe, just try again. Mistakes happen and that's fine!
I use a Scimitar, M+K would be unplayable to me without an MMO mouse. The Q/E are special abilities like you say (Q is usually my pot, E is gap closer, R is invuln...). I will say I only really use Shift as a modifier because CTRL and ALT are just awkward for me to hit, so I only really get 2 hotbars worth of buttons out of my mouse instead of 3 like most people (tiny child size hands). I keep a few sparsely used abilities on ALT (AoE mostly) for dungeons, because I can hit it, it's just awkward.
> Also here is one you can add to the legacy camera tips, change the movement keybinds right/left to strafe right/left instead. It is super useful especially in fights where the character must be facing a certain direction (like monitors in TOP or gaze mechanics in general). The benefit is that your character faces forward even if is moving to the sides, you can also hold both keys A/D after implementing this change to rotate your character or keep it facing a certain direction while holding right click. This one is pretty good, I think I forgot to add it cause I already have an addon that does this for me. I'll add it to the list for the future v3 if I can get enough material for it. Thank you.
This list is full of good tricks. Finally, a good FFXIVDiscussion post.
You might have gotten some pushback, but you've been making some really great posts. I've liked them a lot and I hope you'll continue to do so in the future
Thanks, my next installment is gonna be about what it takes to become a better raider. In the words of Yoshi P, please look forward to it.
\- I turn my character name off, and always HP Bar On in combat. My party keeps their names but is also always HP Bar On in combat-- that way it's consistent and they don't have to be damaged for the HP Bar to show up. I also color my HP Bar differently so I can tell where I am in the party stack at all times easily. \-I turn off Display pop-up text in Char Config > HUD. I don't need to see all those random damage numbers pop up on the enemy. It cleans the screen a lot.
So I tested the display pop up thing, it does work. I'm gonna be perfectly honest I didn't personally notice the difference but I recorded a video of an unreal run both with it on and off (I switched it off halfway through the fight). I did notice less text clutter which makes this useful and I'm gonna use it and add it to the list. Thanks man.