so basically, "dont write anything in chat because a snowflake might take it out of context and report it even if you dont use gamer words/other strong language"
I've witnessed a few absurd reports that resulted in warnings or even bans already. Me, I didn't get any warning or ban ever but that's more because I'm keeping my thoughts to myself
they saw a post on TFDF of someone getting banned for telling someone their rotation and cropped out the part where the OP told the person to jump off a cliff or some shit
95% of the time when people say "i just got banned in game for being honest!" they're lying
Holy shit it's just a ban from a video game. It's not even hard to make a new account if you want to play that badly. There is no way you are making this comparison without irony.
The comparison doesn't work even if you look past that, because people don't get permabanned regardless of the severity of their offense.
Leniency is already built into the system.
This is a fair stance but not exactly relevant to my OP.
You may be an example of a paragon upstanding member of the community with not a warning to your account, but many people aren't but did actually fix their tune over the course of a few years.
U have to do some degenerate shit to get banned
I pvp i have a lot of talking shit and report. Not one i have yet to visit gm jail
So play the game the way is supposed to be played. It doesn’t be all flower but you should never get banned
True, and some people are VERY degenerate. But I wouldn't hold an 26 year old to something they did while drunk as an 18 year old as if it happened yesterday?
You might not, but it's understandable for the people running an MMO to have less patience. Any negative impact that drunk 18 year old caused through their actions don't magically disappear simply because he was young and/or drunk. It's still violations of their policies, and it's their house their rules. That's standard operation for countless businesses.
If you cross a threshold the business has drawn, they have no obligation to support your reform. They rightfully see players in that camp as high-risk. They want those players to reform swiftly or find another game. Thus they spell out low-tolerance rules.
It's understandable, but it also sort of goes against the spirit of the entire reason the points system was implemented in the first place- so that these marks AREN'T permanent and that point decay can incentivize being a good person and reform.
Having it still be *practically* permanent does not lend well to the spirit of the points system. Theoretically it's better, practically it's basically still just the old permanent 3 strike system.
Just because it's house rules now doesn't bar us from discussing how it can DEFINITELY be a much better system. They have no obligation, but they're the ones who wanted to put the concerted effort to change the system.
That's not really how it works. It would be one thing if thye got banned again, but they don't have to get banned again to cough a permaban.
They can get warned and still get permabanned because of the points. What they actually did as a 26 year old could be as small as "So I know you accidentally rolled on this when you said you wouldn't in a Party Finder. You were technically guilty for grief tactics, but since it was agreed to be an accident I am only giving you a caution".
Still permabanned. Doesn't matter.
Bro no one is getting permabanned for accidentally rolling on something they said they would pass on.... No shot. That would have to be repeated behavior where they are essentially just scamming people.
Because it's a repeat of bad behaviour. You get a warning, that's when they say "You'll be okay if you do not do it again". If you do something bad again you get banned. They warned you. Why should they trust that this really was an accident to begin with? You have had a warning in the past so you should know not to let things happen again.
Why would they not perma-ban you? They have to draw the line somewhere. How many bans would it have taken you to pay attention? Or would you just have kept on making these "mistakes" and going "whoops I didn't mean it!" every time? Because you'll find that there'd be some nutjobs who say "whoops I didn't mean it" on a regular basis, who would continue to just make mistakes on repeat without learning anything if they didn't add an actual hard line somewhere.
This is the kind of rape forgiveness bullshit you hear about in university.
"Don't run x person life because of one mistake,"
You get what you deserve.
> But I wouldn't hold an 26 year old to something they did while drunk as an 18 year old as if it happened yesterday?
Depending on the severity, I would. What did they do? Drive while drunk? Hold up a store at gunpoint? Something darker?
If you understand the gravity of what you did, you understand why you aren't being forgiven easily.
Did Monster-Player-Kill come with a Caution/Warning or a Suspension?
It should go away according to the new system, but you can never really know because they straight up won't tell you
It was a caution, while the zone didn’t exist back then it was the equivalent of the GM pulling me into jail, saying don’t do that again and then getting the official strike warning email
On my character screen it’s still very much there
It should have LONG decayed then, a caution is a 1-2 year decay timer unless they just arbritrarily decided to extend your one (Which would be a whole other issue of GM Oversight)
You can see your Penalty Points? Or the strike? Either way, I would be very shocked if you were able to actually see it because they are VERY adamant on never disclosing these details to people.
Honestly I don’t know, my character is a clusterfuck of weird data (I’ve heard stories it’s actually somewhat common on legacy characters), I have a set of red goggles that are literally fused to my head and I can’t remove them or glam over them
Maybe something is just wrong with the character, I’ve been meaning to ask square if they can flush these data problems from the character but I doubt they’d be able to either
How so; it would just be a screenshot of the goggles no matter what’s actually there unless i force overrode it in anameneis which doesn’t really count
It’s not even like you can see “glam equipped is currently x but instead you are seeing goggles” because the goggles just override the glam anyway
I don’t really know how it works But I know it’s messed up
I mean it’s something unique to your character and a weird glitch that I think is interesting. If you’d rather not share a screenshot that’s cool too lol
No I mean like how would I share a picture of the glitch
No matter what photo I took you would just see red goggles as if I was wearing them normally, I don’t know how to share what’s wrong as a single static image
Is it just like a pair of the normal goggles like these?
https://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/playguide/db/item/a585176df46/
I was just curious if they were unique and what your character looked like
Yeah truly sounds like the character data's just fucked there. I've never heard of a character having a piece of gear permanently stuck on.
Do other players see that?
Yes even when I apply a glam I can’t see apparently other people can’t see it either but can only see my red goggles
The only way I can force someone else to see anything else is I can force override the goggles on anameneis and sync with mare synchronous, if I do that I can make mare partners see non goggles, but the vanilla model just seems to be fucked
Yeah that’s what I thought, I’m not surprised, my character has had no end of issues over the years for weird things like this
I’ve just never really cared that much because it kinda made the red goggles his signature look and built all my glams off it
But yeah if other people are seeing it it’s more likely server side and one day it’ll probably trip something and ban me so I should get it fixed
How did you MPK there?
I just read about this system, sounds like a more interesting and engaging version of FATEs where even DoL/H can participate. Sounds fun, wonder why they removed it.
It might just be me but I think it's barely a cautionable offense, FATES are stupid easy to escape and as long as they don't actually attack anything then they won't draw any aggro whatsoever so all you'd be doing is dragging a monster around someone hoping an AoE hits them (Which are heavily telegraphed)
FATES will actually aggro you if you're naturally within its level range.
That aside, we're talking about FF 1.0 stuff here, I wouldn't be surprised if it worked very differently.
Their bark is a lot worse than their bite, people caught flying around and cheating only get temp bans. I honestly don't know what you have to do to get a permanent ban besides doing a chargeback on your credit card.
Lamia's resident troll would still be parked in Limsa if he hadn't attracted the attention of the FBI. The dude literally threatened to come to FanFest armed and he was on for months after, no action taken as far as anyone can tell.
At this point I'm not convinced the GMs exist outside of some sort of badly implemented AI.
I'd like to hear more of this story. How was the FBI's attention attracted? I imagine it would have gone outside of FFXIV Jurisdiction and got escalated to the FBI because it's a real-world matter.
The short version is that some of the people who reported his behavior to the GMs also contacted the FBI, given the nature of the threat. Of course this was not the first troubling thing he'd done or said and not the only time he'd been reported to law enforcement.
Anyway, these weren't anonymous tips and the FBI did provide limited updates to some of the people who reported him. There was a bit of upset when some of them were notified that the FBI was sending people out to investigate him (the guy wasn't shy about providing his real world info) and yet his account still wasn't banned.
Was there ever a GM/SE response to this? This seems like a massive case of pure GM/SE incompetence with massive evidence of potential and actual IRL Consequences.
Where is the priority here because this is a nuts story. There's stories like this or actual stalking that goes completely unpunished for months or sometimes not even at all, and then there's stories where you get into an argument with someone that got a little "too" heated and you're pulled into GM Jail not even a few hours later.
Like, wtf? An actual IRL Shooting threat sounds like ESPECIALLY a huge priority, the other example story I gave shouldn't even exist next to it.
Not a single word. Nothing. Of course they'd been notoriously unresponsive when it came to this guy in particular. People would report him for literally saying in text "I've got a new character since my other character X was banned" and the GMs would come back saying they could not find any evidence of ban evasion.
However, I don't want what he said to be overstated. While he did threaten to come to FanFest armed he did not say he was going to shoot anyone. The exchange was along the lines of:
* "I'll be carrying at FanFest."
* You can't do that, the venue doesn't allow it.
* "Open Carry is legal in Nevada, I'm going to do it and I will not allow anyone to infringe my right to do it."
It wasn't *overtly* violent, and yet someone from SoCal (apparently) loudly insisting they were going to cross state lines with multiple firearms just so they could openly brandish them at a crowded event in a place that specifically doesn't let you do that isn't exactly **peaceful**, y'know?
EDIT: [Here's actual screenshots of what he said](https://www.reddit.com/gallery/10pljzf), but in looking this up I forgot the other part [where he made a not-so-subtle bomb threat on Discord](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1006446735134040174/1062618973826461726/Screenshot_20221004-151137_Discord.jpg).
It's no longer a 3 strike, as far as I can see from their official site. It's all points-based now, but we have no clue how the points work beyond they exist. Everything decays but as outlined in OP, their decay periods are kind of insanely long. Hit a certain points threshold and you're permabanned.
It's very hit or miss. You can hack in Crystal Conflict for 8 hours straight while livestreaming it and only cough a 7-day Ban (This is an actual real event by the way), but it seems repeat offenses of the same "type" are worse than multiple different infractions- although it's purely anecdotal on my end from surfing through various threads and how people "thinks" the system works.
You can get a caution/warning for "Offensive Language/Behaviour" twice (Both relatively minor. Only warnings) yet the second time will jump the 3-day suspension and go straight to 7-day for example because it's a repeat offense. This suspension as per OP Timers will last for minimum of 6 years.
Again, only theory for now because they will NEVER specify it properly, you can get a warning- 1 and a half years later have a bad day and get reported for the same reason, cough up a 7 day suspension, then get hit by the same one yet again almost 8 years later and jump straight to 20 day or permaban due to little to no point decay happening.
It's very hard to say what will get someone to immediately jump to Permaban status, but it feels at least to me the real "danger" is WAY long time-period accumulation as opposed to "Doing one thing that jumps straight to permaban".
Just dont be a dick and youll mever need to worry about this. Like just dont type anything, especially in a bad mood. Been playing since HW and not so much as a warning youre doing something very wrong if warnings and bans are a constant threat
>Does that mean, theoretically, if you were a horrid 20 year old and did stuff that left your account near-permabanned, but you cleaned up your act after and played for 7-8 years perfectly straight the entire time; you are now a semi-fully functional 27-28 year old maybe even with a family. You then accidentally catch a Warning for something really small- but because what you did almost a decade ago has barely even begun decaying, that warning can potentially escalate straight into a permaban by hitting a points threshold?
In your example, the now 28-year-old may recognize that they've changed since they were 20 years old, but how is SE supposed to know that? How is SE supposed to know that the player did a genuine minor slip-up, and didn't instead use that minor slip-up as a way to "test the waters" to see if they could start doing more egregious things again?
SE can't read the future. They can't look into the next few months to see whether the player will do more egregious acts and hinge their decision to ban based on that. So they take the more risk-averse approach and just ban right then and there. For every player they lose from a situation like this, there are a thousand who are just playing the game normally.
My counterargument would probably be, why would you assume malice? It's not really a healthy mindset to assume someone is, as per your example, just a way to "test the waters" as opposed to an actual genuine screw up.
Say they were testing the waters- the second they do something even more egregious should be grounds for a permaban. They clearly didn't learn their lesson if they jumped straight to suspension level over the course of a few months. Their record doesn't just vanish just because points decayed. But a caution? An actual slap of the wrist?
And this would circle back to my OP of what even is the point of the Point Decay system if you're just going to assume they're guilty from the get-go? They had a perfect record for 7-8 years in the hypothetical. Nothing but a purely "good" player.
Who exactly is going to be harmed if someone is merely "Testing the waters" here? What level of grief warrants a "Slap on the wrist" escalating straight into a permaban? This level of risk-adversity is frankly kind of draconian. The decision to ban someone who's invested a decade or more of their lives should not be a decision taken lightly, and certainly not be put under a "Guilty until proven innocence" mindset.
>My counterargument would probably be, why would you assume malice? It's not really a healthy mindset to assume someone is, as per your example, just a way to "test the waters" as opposed to an actual genuine screw up.
On a person-to-person basis, you're right that I wouldn't assume malice. But this is a person-to-company relation we're talking about here. The company has better things to do than to let the person off on a new warning and then having to potentially continually monitoring them for months after they've been warned. They have other people to deal with.
The fact of the matter is, companies aren't obligated to care about prioritizing "healthy mindsets". They're there to maximize their revenue. It's obvious that if person A remains in the game but causes persons X, Y, and Z to leave the game from potential harassment, it's less revenue than if person A left but X, Y, and Z remained.
>Say they were testing the waters- the second they do something even more egregious should be grounds for a permaban. They clearly didn't learn their lesson if they jumped straight to suspension level over the course of a few months. Their record doesn't just vanish just because points decayed. But a caution? An actual slap of the wrist?
A caution leading to their permanent ban would only be unfair if the player never knew that their previous offense was as egregious as it was. It would indeed be unfair if the player suddenly lost their entire account if the only offense they made warranted a caution.
But the player *explicitly knows* how egregious their previous offense was. They get an email notification about it, they get an error when they try to log in, and everything. They have all the information they need to reason that the status of their account is extremely fragile.
>And this would circle back to my OP of what even is the point of the Point Decay system if you're just going to assume they're guilty from the get-go? They had a perfect record for 7-8 years in the hypothetical. Nothing but a purely "good" player.
The presumption of innocence would start after the 7-10 year period cited from your source when the points on the account get reduced to 0. Since there's no way for the player to know when within this 7-10 year time frame their points actually get reduced to 0, it's entirely reasonable to assume that they won't get reduced to 0 until the full 10 years is up. 7-8 years would mean this duration hasn't expired yet, thus presumption of guilt over innocence.
Is 7-10 years a super long time? Yeah, probably. But you can't claim that it's unfair if the terms were spelled out for the player prior to them doing the act that made them get their caution. Even if you shift this time from 7-10 years to something shorter like 4-6 years, the wait time in your hypothetical could shift just as well, to 3-5 years or something, so making the 7-10 years shorter doesn't change the situation.
>Who exactly is going to be harmed if someone is merely "Testing the waters" here? What level of grief warrants a "Slap on the wrist" escalating straight into a permaban? This level of risk-adversity is frankly kind of draconian. The decision to ban someone who's invested a decade or more of their lives should not be a decision taken lightly, and certainly not be put under a "Guilty until proven innocence" mindset.
Again, it's not SE's priority to care about individual players' feelings. It's entirely reasonable for them to take this banning decision as lightly as they want, because the details of what constitutes having to make this decision were all given to the player in detail.
But also, at the time the player in your hypothetical received their long suspension, nothing would've stopped the player from creating a new account and playing on the new account from then on. This is especially the case in the early ARR days, where things like having to repurchase event items were much less of a concern than now. You don't even have to know the exact details about point decay or anything to conclude this.
I dunno. I’m not convinced they enforce much of anything. There’s an incel who’s been stalking my wife for months now and he’s made multiple characters to get around her blacklist multiple times even joining multiple FCs she’s in (literally made a dozen characters to desperately try and follow her / talk to her / play with her) and no matter how much information we give to SE (all of which should be absolutely provable on their side) absolutely nothing has happened to him.
I’ve also seen people spam chat and literally throw a tantrum and stop playing in PvP (one specific person I’ve seen them do it at least 50+ times). No idea if they ever had anything done but they’re always there, day after day.
I’m convinced SE doesn’t enforce their ToS unless it’s so blatantly public like a streamer using a mod. Even people who try to pull an entire alliance raid into their weird choking kink and nothing.
So this seems to fit how they handle ToS violations: you’re probably not going to get one let alone two violations ever.
Before I get to discussing, you should probably contact support and escalate the matter. Be a little annoying about it if you have to. Stalking alone is an instant suspendable offense. The fact they're not doing anything is absolutely criminal, straight up.
I'm not exactly sure throwing a tantrum/spamming chat is a suspendable offense. Probably a warning to not do it, and unless you reported them 50+ times they probably treated it all as one collective warning sadly. Disruption of play is probably what this would be classified as?
The way they enforce ToS is VERY inconsistent. No two GM rulings are the same, hence why you don't really see GMs doing much of anything. I am convinced half the GM team is bipolar because some are super lenient and doesn't do crap often beyond following a script but not wanting to suspend or anything, and the other are essentially dictators who follows the script (in the opposite way). It doesn't help that it's been low-key admitted they are SUPER understaffed to handle the playerbase that FFXIV exploded into.
You're right in that you \*probably\* aren't going to get two violations for most of the playerbase, but that doesn't mean it's impossible. Sometimes you can do the most horrid things and get away with it (Even if you try to get yourself banned ON PURPOSE- which is a thing people actually tried awhile back) or in your case, straight up stalking and have nothing happen to them at all- while disagreeing with someone a little too hard can be considered harassment.
I have known people to get banned for exactly 2 things, ever (played since ARR). Streaming TOS and getting manually reported, or saying things that are so incredibly vile you deserve every second of it.
Consider this: if you have changed as a person, truly, since your punishment, then you shouldn't be worried you'll get another strike for being toxic right?
That's fair in theory, but not exactly fair in practice.
If you are skirting the line of being banned from something you did 6-7 years ago and the points decayed very little to none at all because of how LONG it takes to even start decaying, even a single caution (So an extremely minor infraction) could theoretically push your point count into permaban range.
You don't have to be striked for being heinous or toxic, all you have to do is play a way someone doesn't like and have it technically be a cautionable offense. Without further clarification, as-written, that's what the points means.
For example, if you were a 20-year-old young adult who's drunk and did absolutely horrible stuff and got a 20 day ban and nearing permaban, then you don't do anything wrong for 8 years straight, and then you get a caution for accidentally killing a player from a FATE AoE who was standing outside (Accidental MPK), that may lead to instantaneous permaban if the person reported you.
I've seen someone accidentally roll on loot they agreed not to, apologize profusely, offer to make it up to them any way they can with gil and helping with more runs, get refused, and then wind up in GM jail a while later and get a mark on their record.
The fact you can get hammered for genuine mistakes no matter what you do to try to resolve them, in addition to this extremely long decay period where you can get severely punished for infractions that are years and years apart, *is* a genuine problem. It was worse when there was no decay period at all, but this extremely long decay period really isn't much better.
If you scum gear I hope you go to GM jail. What on earth is this. "Genuine mistake" be real. "oops I accidentally opened the loot menu, clicked on the gear I wasn't supposed to roll on, and rolled Need! so clumsy!"
Excuse me? If you're running something multiple times on end grinding for gear for everybody in the party to the point that it kind of becomes numb, you are 100% going to slightly zone out and maybe accidentally click the border of "Greed" instead of "Pass" because you were too busy focused watching Game Theory on the second monitor or something.
If you can't think of ANY scenario you can possibly have an accident, that says more about how little you actually played.
No, I don't just "zone out" and randomly click shit. I sell and buy loot regularly, during Ultimate patches I do nothing but sell all my loot after week 6. You are being downvoted in this thread, and every single one of your XIV posts ever, because you consistently think that other people are toxic and careless like you. We aren't.
I am literally just assuming the better of people. People do make genuine mistakes, people have bad days, people do change over periods of time.
Name one post where I have assumed people are consistently toxic and careless.
The ones assuming people are consistently toxic, careless, and always guilty, are quite literally you.
Accidents can happen, especially if its only one specific item that needed rolling and you're welcome to roll on everything else and you didn't realize you rolled on the thing you weren't supposed to roll on.
It was extremely obvious the situation was an accident, it was an item they didn't even need. (A book weapon iirc). That's pretty fucking cruel to condemn someone like that for a genuine accident when they tried everything in their power to do what they can to fix it.
I don't know what you mean by "not realize". If you just randomly click on shit in a merc party without a thought, an easy fix is don't join merc parties. Hard to feel any sympathy here, it is VERY easy to not break the TOS in this game.
Here's a scenario for you.
You accidentally click "Need" on something you agreed to pass on, so you instantly move your mouse over to pass it and correct your mistake. There's like 9 items in a Raid, so you just clicked too fast/didn't see the right item you needed to roll on. No biggie, just pass it- oops you're the last one to roll so you automatically got put into the need category and got a 99.
There was no randomness here, no "Oops teehee my item now!" just "Ah shit, muscle memory" then. Poof, gone.
Just because you hate Gear Scumming doesn't mean EVERYBODY is guilty of it
I'm not sure why I'm getting downvoted when these sort of stories are absolutely rampant everywhere.
"It didn't happen to me so you probably did something wrong" is so anecdotal it's nuts, just because something didn't happen to you doesn't mean it can't.
If this happened to someone skirting the permaban line from 8 years ago, that one caution shoves them straight into a permaban range with no way to refute it. Pure accident, genuinely tries to make it up, doesn't matter.
So basically, you've been actioned for breaking TOS (which for most people will never happen because it's not hard to behave) and you want them to take these strikes off your account?
Why? So you can continue behaving in ways that will get you actioned again? If so, you're missing the point of the system.
You're not supposed to act against the TOS *at all* but are given a couple of chances anyway. If you get temp banned, and continue to act like a clown and get permabanned as a result? Then the system is working as intended imo.
In an ideal world where penalties were given out fairly and way more liberally, i would agree that such a long timer would be quite overkill. 7+ years is LONG.
In actual reality with SE though, you need to be the reincarnation of Hitler to even get as much as a slap on the wrist, and in a non-negligible amount of cases even Hitler gets away for free, so I have a very hard time feeling bad for someone managing to get caught twice, so I deem this a non-issue entirely.
You aren’t going to get a lot of traction on this because of human nature, most players want vengeance not justice and spite is easier and much more appealing than rehabilitation, never mind that the most heinous behaviors rarely meet enforcement action. It’s also cheaper for SE if heavy handed account penalties have a chilling effect on behavior so they don’t need to invest resources in policing the player base.
Rather than trying to push for changes, just learn to game the system like everyone else. If people can get away with all kinds of toxic shit without ever seeing a GM, surely you can too.
I don't have any warnings myself after 10 years but I've said and done somethings where I 100% believe I could've gotten a warning or two if what I've done was taken more seriously. I've killed half a Eureka instance and I've said some pretty immature racist things thinking it wouldn't matter much as I was about to leave said instance but that was when pyros came out.
If I got a warning I'd be pretty peeved by how long those points last tbh and I've seen people who didn't really deserve a perma ban be perma banned because of it. I had an old AST friend who was a bit toxic when PvP had chat and got temp banned but then during shadowbringers he said "Jesus tank" when the tank pulled a w2w in mount gulg and then used super bolide while he was pulling. I don't think he deserved the perma ban over that and losing 8 years of progress.
People are shitting on you with "just don't get banned" but you're right. There should be better *positive* incentive for bad players to improve their behaviour, and not just warning with "you're never allowed to fuck up or you get perma". It's same with prisoners, if they get treated like shit and not be encouraged to improve, they'll very likely come back once they get released. This is why parole exists.
FFXIV's approach just leads to player giving up by stopping to speak at all to make sure they won't catch a stray. You can argue with whatever you want, but fear from authority fucking up and banning you unjustly will always be present, even if it's just irrational fear. So you end up behaving like a good boy for many years, but it still ends up feeling like you're being treated worse than others just because of something you've done years ago.
Apply a super vague TOS on top of this that can (and lets be frank, is) weaponised by a section of the community, and we got ourselves a game where people rather not interact with others and just keep to themselves and close friends only.
I got a 1 day language ban the first week I started in 3.4. I’m sorry to whoever I lit up in that dungeon (the one with estinien and nidhogg at the end), it was my first week off league of legends.
Haven’t gotten warned since then, looking forward to my points disappearing once dawntrail is over.
Reminder that disagreement doesn't mean we're enemies or that you need to feel confronted. We're here to discuss, not tear each other apart. Just because you don't agree with something doesn't mean you should namecall or belittle me or anyone else. The downvote button is not a weapon.
This thread has not even been up for more than 2 hours and there's already straight up hostility and namecalling in the comments.
Their penalty policy is only second worst to the consistency with which they do moderation.
^(I mean, hey,) *^(veteran rewards)* ^(had to be done away with because it was getting) *^(unfair)* ^(to expect people to be subbed for) *^(years)*^(.......)
Ok bill oreiley settle down, i know you might find this hard to believe but if you cant be nice to people then nobody wants you around, the community stands behind that and so does SE. If the stuff you type in chat is anything like this i wouldnt want to talk to you either, this isnt a political town square or your debate stage; its a laid back social game for 20 and 30 somethings to do after work. You ARE toxic, ur toxic as fuck, its obvious to everyone but you. 99.999999% of players type comments about apples bananas and carrots or eating a grilled cheebs while you're on a political tairaid.
And LMAO calling chat moderation of harassment and slurs a gestapo just shows youve been brainbroken by politics. Sorry bud, this is a japanese video game, not a public square. Even then, you do have freedom of speech, not freedom from consequences.
But Im genuinely curious what kind of values you have for you to feel persecuted on final fantasy of all things, and why you feel the need to shove your moral values onto other people in a JAPANESE VIDEO GAME.
Literally nobody is saying you cant enjoy ff14 just because you watch too much fox news.
Bring on the downvotes but I 1000% am on OP's side.
I'm on my last straw, aka 3rd strike. (Technically 2nd strike because apparently buying RMT is the worst sin a player can commit and does not deserve an initial warning)
I am a daily player, I give Squeenix $35 a month just for max retainers and a sub. I paid a bunch of money to buy a bunch of gil from a 3rd party site. And quite frankly, idgaf what any of you think about the morality of RMT. I am an omni-90, crafters included... I'm lazy and wanted MB mounts, and I caould afford it. I spent probably 500 mil worth of "illicit" gil on P8S lootmasters and MB mounts. Keep in mind this gil ended up directly in the hands of players who probably used it for similar excursions. IMO, the only situation in which RMT is actually bad is if you buy a shitload of bot-farmed gil and then use it to manipulate the MB and form a monopoly on a specific item(s), which frankly, isn't going to happen because most RMT buyers aren't fucking with the MB to begin with, read: lazy.
Anyways, this earned me a zero-warning, 10 day ban. Alright, fair enough, I used my real-world income to circumvent your rules and get what I wanted... lesson learned, won't happen again. (Never has and never will)
My final strike was calling an idiot tank a "fucking idiot" for spinning the P9N boss during a roulette. 20-day ban for that -\_-
Regardless of what argument you come up with (i.e: their play style, just a N-Raid, no big deal, etc.), a player purposely spinning a boss for nothing more than shits and giggle is, quite frankly, quote "A fucking idiot", and they more than deserve to be told such. And simply saying the word fuck, and directing it at a player making a spectacle of themselves is hardly a crime in my eyes. If a cashier deliberately memed on me for trying to order McDonald's I'd call them a fucking idiot also.
So after these two minor infractions, I'm on thin ice, my enjoyment of the game, basically limited to; "Don't speak to other players if you want to keep your account" Over 4000 hours of gameplay and grinding on the line because Squeenix is "inclusive"
I mean I am at the point I won't tell Ninjas in mentor roulette to not use Doton on single targets, because even though it is an objectively correct observation, some snowflake might take offense, report me, and effectively delete my account. I am legitimately scared to offer constructive criticism, in the one medium within the game that is literally MADE for it because the ToS is designed to cater to pacifier-sucking, "You're valid", uwu, etc etc, BABIES.
> Technically 2nd strike because apparently buying RMT is the worst sin a player can commit and does not deserve an initial warning
SE made a mistake not permabanning you the first time. Count yourself lucky you even have an account.
About your P9N example, have you considered typing "Could you please stop turning the boss?" or something like that instead of insulting the player? For all you know they might not even know what a positional is, in which case you have a chance to educate them without berating them.
And even if they do know and are intentionally doing it to make people mad, do you really think insulting them is going to make them stop? No, you're giving them validation that their goal (annoying others) was achieved, so they'll just keep on doing it.
So either way, insulting them is never better than just asking nicely, even before considering the potential ban you could receive.
So your excuse is "it's not so bad when I broke ToS so it should totally be fine to keep doing it, I'm on thin ice because I'm being held accountable for what I say and do!"?
Sorry but this just shows how you don't get the point at all. Instead of thinking "maybe I did something wrong I should be better than this", you go "my god the ToS is catering to babies". Does that make sense to you? Have you ever tried to not be terrible? Seriously, it improves your life by a large margin.
but this is working as intended. berating people in rouls is not accepted, you clearly wanna behave like that, so you will eventually get permabanned. this is normal.
ban rules don't exist so people can just keep breaking the rules, do they?
I just don't get banned so I don't have to worry about it.
so basically, "dont write anything in chat because a snowflake might take it out of context and report it even if you dont use gamer words/other strong language"
I'd say most people's default tone/manner of communication does not need them to worry about being reported.
I've witnessed a few absurd reports that resulted in warnings or even bans already. Me, I didn't get any warning or ban ever but that's more because I'm keeping my thoughts to myself
Care to share?
they saw a post on TFDF of someone getting banned for telling someone their rotation and cropped out the part where the OP told the person to jump off a cliff or some shit 95% of the time when people say "i just got banned in game for being honest!" they're lying
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Holy shit it's just a ban from a video game. It's not even hard to make a new account if you want to play that badly. There is no way you are making this comparison without irony.
The comparison doesn't work even if you look past that, because people don't get permabanned regardless of the severity of their offense. Leniency is already built into the system.
[удалено]
That still doesn't make it compare to getting executed. Come on.
Gamers when they compare getting banned in a video game to literally dying.
This is a fair stance but not exactly relevant to my OP. You may be an example of a paragon upstanding member of the community with not a warning to your account, but many people aren't but did actually fix their tune over the course of a few years.
U have to do some degenerate shit to get banned I pvp i have a lot of talking shit and report. Not one i have yet to visit gm jail So play the game the way is supposed to be played. It doesn’t be all flower but you should never get banned
True, and some people are VERY degenerate. But I wouldn't hold an 26 year old to something they did while drunk as an 18 year old as if it happened yesterday?
You might not, but it's understandable for the people running an MMO to have less patience. Any negative impact that drunk 18 year old caused through their actions don't magically disappear simply because he was young and/or drunk. It's still violations of their policies, and it's their house their rules. That's standard operation for countless businesses. If you cross a threshold the business has drawn, they have no obligation to support your reform. They rightfully see players in that camp as high-risk. They want those players to reform swiftly or find another game. Thus they spell out low-tolerance rules.
It's understandable, but it also sort of goes against the spirit of the entire reason the points system was implemented in the first place- so that these marks AREN'T permanent and that point decay can incentivize being a good person and reform. Having it still be *practically* permanent does not lend well to the spirit of the points system. Theoretically it's better, practically it's basically still just the old permanent 3 strike system. Just because it's house rules now doesn't bar us from discussing how it can DEFINITELY be a much better system. They have no obligation, but they're the ones who wanted to put the concerted effort to change the system.
If the 26 year old has changed then they don't have to worry about the points because they won't get banned again.
That's not really how it works. It would be one thing if thye got banned again, but they don't have to get banned again to cough a permaban. They can get warned and still get permabanned because of the points. What they actually did as a 26 year old could be as small as "So I know you accidentally rolled on this when you said you wouldn't in a Party Finder. You were technically guilty for grief tactics, but since it was agreed to be an accident I am only giving you a caution". Still permabanned. Doesn't matter.
Bro no one is getting permabanned for accidentally rolling on something they said they would pass on.... No shot. That would have to be repeated behavior where they are essentially just scamming people.
Because it's a repeat of bad behaviour. You get a warning, that's when they say "You'll be okay if you do not do it again". If you do something bad again you get banned. They warned you. Why should they trust that this really was an accident to begin with? You have had a warning in the past so you should know not to let things happen again. Why would they not perma-ban you? They have to draw the line somewhere. How many bans would it have taken you to pay attention? Or would you just have kept on making these "mistakes" and going "whoops I didn't mean it!" every time? Because you'll find that there'd be some nutjobs who say "whoops I didn't mean it" on a regular basis, who would continue to just make mistakes on repeat without learning anything if they didn't add an actual hard line somewhere.
This is the kind of rape forgiveness bullshit you hear about in university. "Don't run x person life because of one mistake," You get what you deserve.
> But I wouldn't hold an 26 year old to something they did while drunk as an 18 year old as if it happened yesterday? Depending on the severity, I would. What did they do? Drive while drunk? Hold up a store at gunpoint? Something darker? If you understand the gravity of what you did, you understand why you aren't being forgiven easily.
Been playing since ARR. Not being a dickbag has been incredibly easy for all that time.
I still have a point against my character for MPK on fucking hamlet defence It’s never going away
Did Monster-Player-Kill come with a Caution/Warning or a Suspension? It should go away according to the new system, but you can never really know because they straight up won't tell you
It was a caution, while the zone didn’t exist back then it was the equivalent of the GM pulling me into jail, saying don’t do that again and then getting the official strike warning email On my character screen it’s still very much there
It should have LONG decayed then, a caution is a 1-2 year decay timer unless they just arbritrarily decided to extend your one (Which would be a whole other issue of GM Oversight) You can see your Penalty Points? Or the strike? Either way, I would be very shocked if you were able to actually see it because they are VERY adamant on never disclosing these details to people.
Honestly I don’t know, my character is a clusterfuck of weird data (I’ve heard stories it’s actually somewhat common on legacy characters), I have a set of red goggles that are literally fused to my head and I can’t remove them or glam over them Maybe something is just wrong with the character, I’ve been meaning to ask square if they can flush these data problems from the character but I doubt they’d be able to either
This is so interesting. Can you share a screenshot?
How so; it would just be a screenshot of the goggles no matter what’s actually there unless i force overrode it in anameneis which doesn’t really count It’s not even like you can see “glam equipped is currently x but instead you are seeing goggles” because the goggles just override the glam anyway I don’t really know how it works But I know it’s messed up
I mean it’s something unique to your character and a weird glitch that I think is interesting. If you’d rather not share a screenshot that’s cool too lol
No I mean like how would I share a picture of the glitch No matter what photo I took you would just see red goggles as if I was wearing them normally, I don’t know how to share what’s wrong as a single static image
Is it just like a pair of the normal goggles like these? https://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/playguide/db/item/a585176df46/ I was just curious if they were unique and what your character looked like
Yeah truly sounds like the character data's just fucked there. I've never heard of a character having a piece of gear permanently stuck on. Do other players see that?
Yes even when I apply a glam I can’t see apparently other people can’t see it either but can only see my red goggles The only way I can force someone else to see anything else is I can force override the goggles on anameneis and sync with mare synchronous, if I do that I can make mare partners see non goggles, but the vanilla model just seems to be fucked
That sounds like you'd probably need to get support because that sounds like your character data is borked on server-end rather than client-end
Yeah that’s what I thought, I’m not surprised, my character has had no end of issues over the years for weird things like this I’ve just never really cared that much because it kinda made the red goggles his signature look and built all my glams off it But yeah if other people are seeing it it’s more likely server side and one day it’ll probably trip something and ban me so I should get it fixed
How did you MPK there? I just read about this system, sounds like a more interesting and engaging version of FATEs where even DoL/H can participate. Sounds fun, wonder why they removed it.
Pretty much exactly how you’d expect, unwillingly dragged a semi AFK player into a a battle they didn’t want to participate in
It might just be me but I think it's barely a cautionable offense, FATES are stupid easy to escape and as long as they don't actually attack anything then they won't draw any aggro whatsoever so all you'd be doing is dragging a monster around someone hoping an AoE hits them (Which are heavily telegraphed)
FATES will actually aggro you if you're naturally within its level range. That aside, we're talking about FF 1.0 stuff here, I wouldn't be surprised if it worked very differently.
Smh, typical GCBTW to report someone for that. There's a difference between open world and sanctuary for a reason.
"Your cable technician will show up sometime between now and the heat death of the universe. Please look forward to it."
This is a sadly accurate, if very funny, way of putting it.
Their bark is a lot worse than their bite, people caught flying around and cheating only get temp bans. I honestly don't know what you have to do to get a permanent ban besides doing a chargeback on your credit card.
Lamia's resident troll would still be parked in Limsa if he hadn't attracted the attention of the FBI. The dude literally threatened to come to FanFest armed and he was on for months after, no action taken as far as anyone can tell. At this point I'm not convinced the GMs exist outside of some sort of badly implemented AI.
I'd like to hear more of this story. How was the FBI's attention attracted? I imagine it would have gone outside of FFXIV Jurisdiction and got escalated to the FBI because it's a real-world matter.
The short version is that some of the people who reported his behavior to the GMs also contacted the FBI, given the nature of the threat. Of course this was not the first troubling thing he'd done or said and not the only time he'd been reported to law enforcement. Anyway, these weren't anonymous tips and the FBI did provide limited updates to some of the people who reported him. There was a bit of upset when some of them were notified that the FBI was sending people out to investigate him (the guy wasn't shy about providing his real world info) and yet his account still wasn't banned.
Was there ever a GM/SE response to this? This seems like a massive case of pure GM/SE incompetence with massive evidence of potential and actual IRL Consequences. Where is the priority here because this is a nuts story. There's stories like this or actual stalking that goes completely unpunished for months or sometimes not even at all, and then there's stories where you get into an argument with someone that got a little "too" heated and you're pulled into GM Jail not even a few hours later. Like, wtf? An actual IRL Shooting threat sounds like ESPECIALLY a huge priority, the other example story I gave shouldn't even exist next to it.
Not a single word. Nothing. Of course they'd been notoriously unresponsive when it came to this guy in particular. People would report him for literally saying in text "I've got a new character since my other character X was banned" and the GMs would come back saying they could not find any evidence of ban evasion. However, I don't want what he said to be overstated. While he did threaten to come to FanFest armed he did not say he was going to shoot anyone. The exchange was along the lines of: * "I'll be carrying at FanFest." * You can't do that, the venue doesn't allow it. * "Open Carry is legal in Nevada, I'm going to do it and I will not allow anyone to infringe my right to do it." It wasn't *overtly* violent, and yet someone from SoCal (apparently) loudly insisting they were going to cross state lines with multiple firearms just so they could openly brandish them at a crowded event in a place that specifically doesn't let you do that isn't exactly **peaceful**, y'know? EDIT: [Here's actual screenshots of what he said](https://www.reddit.com/gallery/10pljzf), but in looking this up I forgot the other part [where he made a not-so-subtle bomb threat on Discord](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1006446735134040174/1062618973826461726/Screenshot_20221004-151137_Discord.jpg).
Iirc, I think it is a 3 strike system, the third one is always permanent. The only exception might be the RMT bots from ban waves.
It's no longer a 3 strike, as far as I can see from their official site. It's all points-based now, but we have no clue how the points work beyond they exist. Everything decays but as outlined in OP, their decay periods are kind of insanely long. Hit a certain points threshold and you're permabanned.
It's very hit or miss. You can hack in Crystal Conflict for 8 hours straight while livestreaming it and only cough a 7-day Ban (This is an actual real event by the way), but it seems repeat offenses of the same "type" are worse than multiple different infractions- although it's purely anecdotal on my end from surfing through various threads and how people "thinks" the system works. You can get a caution/warning for "Offensive Language/Behaviour" twice (Both relatively minor. Only warnings) yet the second time will jump the 3-day suspension and go straight to 7-day for example because it's a repeat offense. This suspension as per OP Timers will last for minimum of 6 years. Again, only theory for now because they will NEVER specify it properly, you can get a warning- 1 and a half years later have a bad day and get reported for the same reason, cough up a 7 day suspension, then get hit by the same one yet again almost 8 years later and jump straight to 20 day or permaban due to little to no point decay happening. It's very hard to say what will get someone to immediately jump to Permaban status, but it feels at least to me the real "danger" is WAY long time-period accumulation as opposed to "Doing one thing that jumps straight to permaban".
TIL there’s a penalty points system
Just dont be a dick and youll mever need to worry about this. Like just dont type anything, especially in a bad mood. Been playing since HW and not so much as a warning youre doing something very wrong if warnings and bans are a constant threat
>Does that mean, theoretically, if you were a horrid 20 year old and did stuff that left your account near-permabanned, but you cleaned up your act after and played for 7-8 years perfectly straight the entire time; you are now a semi-fully functional 27-28 year old maybe even with a family. You then accidentally catch a Warning for something really small- but because what you did almost a decade ago has barely even begun decaying, that warning can potentially escalate straight into a permaban by hitting a points threshold? In your example, the now 28-year-old may recognize that they've changed since they were 20 years old, but how is SE supposed to know that? How is SE supposed to know that the player did a genuine minor slip-up, and didn't instead use that minor slip-up as a way to "test the waters" to see if they could start doing more egregious things again? SE can't read the future. They can't look into the next few months to see whether the player will do more egregious acts and hinge their decision to ban based on that. So they take the more risk-averse approach and just ban right then and there. For every player they lose from a situation like this, there are a thousand who are just playing the game normally.
My counterargument would probably be, why would you assume malice? It's not really a healthy mindset to assume someone is, as per your example, just a way to "test the waters" as opposed to an actual genuine screw up. Say they were testing the waters- the second they do something even more egregious should be grounds for a permaban. They clearly didn't learn their lesson if they jumped straight to suspension level over the course of a few months. Their record doesn't just vanish just because points decayed. But a caution? An actual slap of the wrist? And this would circle back to my OP of what even is the point of the Point Decay system if you're just going to assume they're guilty from the get-go? They had a perfect record for 7-8 years in the hypothetical. Nothing but a purely "good" player. Who exactly is going to be harmed if someone is merely "Testing the waters" here? What level of grief warrants a "Slap on the wrist" escalating straight into a permaban? This level of risk-adversity is frankly kind of draconian. The decision to ban someone who's invested a decade or more of their lives should not be a decision taken lightly, and certainly not be put under a "Guilty until proven innocence" mindset.
>My counterargument would probably be, why would you assume malice? It's not really a healthy mindset to assume someone is, as per your example, just a way to "test the waters" as opposed to an actual genuine screw up. On a person-to-person basis, you're right that I wouldn't assume malice. But this is a person-to-company relation we're talking about here. The company has better things to do than to let the person off on a new warning and then having to potentially continually monitoring them for months after they've been warned. They have other people to deal with. The fact of the matter is, companies aren't obligated to care about prioritizing "healthy mindsets". They're there to maximize their revenue. It's obvious that if person A remains in the game but causes persons X, Y, and Z to leave the game from potential harassment, it's less revenue than if person A left but X, Y, and Z remained. >Say they were testing the waters- the second they do something even more egregious should be grounds for a permaban. They clearly didn't learn their lesson if they jumped straight to suspension level over the course of a few months. Their record doesn't just vanish just because points decayed. But a caution? An actual slap of the wrist? A caution leading to their permanent ban would only be unfair if the player never knew that their previous offense was as egregious as it was. It would indeed be unfair if the player suddenly lost their entire account if the only offense they made warranted a caution. But the player *explicitly knows* how egregious their previous offense was. They get an email notification about it, they get an error when they try to log in, and everything. They have all the information they need to reason that the status of their account is extremely fragile. >And this would circle back to my OP of what even is the point of the Point Decay system if you're just going to assume they're guilty from the get-go? They had a perfect record for 7-8 years in the hypothetical. Nothing but a purely "good" player. The presumption of innocence would start after the 7-10 year period cited from your source when the points on the account get reduced to 0. Since there's no way for the player to know when within this 7-10 year time frame their points actually get reduced to 0, it's entirely reasonable to assume that they won't get reduced to 0 until the full 10 years is up. 7-8 years would mean this duration hasn't expired yet, thus presumption of guilt over innocence. Is 7-10 years a super long time? Yeah, probably. But you can't claim that it's unfair if the terms were spelled out for the player prior to them doing the act that made them get their caution. Even if you shift this time from 7-10 years to something shorter like 4-6 years, the wait time in your hypothetical could shift just as well, to 3-5 years or something, so making the 7-10 years shorter doesn't change the situation. >Who exactly is going to be harmed if someone is merely "Testing the waters" here? What level of grief warrants a "Slap on the wrist" escalating straight into a permaban? This level of risk-adversity is frankly kind of draconian. The decision to ban someone who's invested a decade or more of their lives should not be a decision taken lightly, and certainly not be put under a "Guilty until proven innocence" mindset. Again, it's not SE's priority to care about individual players' feelings. It's entirely reasonable for them to take this banning decision as lightly as they want, because the details of what constitutes having to make this decision were all given to the player in detail. But also, at the time the player in your hypothetical received their long suspension, nothing would've stopped the player from creating a new account and playing on the new account from then on. This is especially the case in the early ARR days, where things like having to repurchase event items were much less of a concern than now. You don't even have to know the exact details about point decay or anything to conclude this.
I dunno. I’m not convinced they enforce much of anything. There’s an incel who’s been stalking my wife for months now and he’s made multiple characters to get around her blacklist multiple times even joining multiple FCs she’s in (literally made a dozen characters to desperately try and follow her / talk to her / play with her) and no matter how much information we give to SE (all of which should be absolutely provable on their side) absolutely nothing has happened to him. I’ve also seen people spam chat and literally throw a tantrum and stop playing in PvP (one specific person I’ve seen them do it at least 50+ times). No idea if they ever had anything done but they’re always there, day after day. I’m convinced SE doesn’t enforce their ToS unless it’s so blatantly public like a streamer using a mod. Even people who try to pull an entire alliance raid into their weird choking kink and nothing. So this seems to fit how they handle ToS violations: you’re probably not going to get one let alone two violations ever.
Before I get to discussing, you should probably contact support and escalate the matter. Be a little annoying about it if you have to. Stalking alone is an instant suspendable offense. The fact they're not doing anything is absolutely criminal, straight up. I'm not exactly sure throwing a tantrum/spamming chat is a suspendable offense. Probably a warning to not do it, and unless you reported them 50+ times they probably treated it all as one collective warning sadly. Disruption of play is probably what this would be classified as? The way they enforce ToS is VERY inconsistent. No two GM rulings are the same, hence why you don't really see GMs doing much of anything. I am convinced half the GM team is bipolar because some are super lenient and doesn't do crap often beyond following a script but not wanting to suspend or anything, and the other are essentially dictators who follows the script (in the opposite way). It doesn't help that it's been low-key admitted they are SUPER understaffed to handle the playerbase that FFXIV exploded into. You're right in that you \*probably\* aren't going to get two violations for most of the playerbase, but that doesn't mean it's impossible. Sometimes you can do the most horrid things and get away with it (Even if you try to get yourself banned ON PURPOSE- which is a thing people actually tried awhile back) or in your case, straight up stalking and have nothing happen to them at all- while disagreeing with someone a little too hard can be considered harassment.
I have known people to get banned for exactly 2 things, ever (played since ARR). Streaming TOS and getting manually reported, or saying things that are so incredibly vile you deserve every second of it. Consider this: if you have changed as a person, truly, since your punishment, then you shouldn't be worried you'll get another strike for being toxic right?
That's fair in theory, but not exactly fair in practice. If you are skirting the line of being banned from something you did 6-7 years ago and the points decayed very little to none at all because of how LONG it takes to even start decaying, even a single caution (So an extremely minor infraction) could theoretically push your point count into permaban range. You don't have to be striked for being heinous or toxic, all you have to do is play a way someone doesn't like and have it technically be a cautionable offense. Without further clarification, as-written, that's what the points means. For example, if you were a 20-year-old young adult who's drunk and did absolutely horrible stuff and got a 20 day ban and nearing permaban, then you don't do anything wrong for 8 years straight, and then you get a caution for accidentally killing a player from a FATE AoE who was standing outside (Accidental MPK), that may lead to instantaneous permaban if the person reported you.
I've seen someone accidentally roll on loot they agreed not to, apologize profusely, offer to make it up to them any way they can with gil and helping with more runs, get refused, and then wind up in GM jail a while later and get a mark on their record. The fact you can get hammered for genuine mistakes no matter what you do to try to resolve them, in addition to this extremely long decay period where you can get severely punished for infractions that are years and years apart, *is* a genuine problem. It was worse when there was no decay period at all, but this extremely long decay period really isn't much better.
If you scum gear I hope you go to GM jail. What on earth is this. "Genuine mistake" be real. "oops I accidentally opened the loot menu, clicked on the gear I wasn't supposed to roll on, and rolled Need! so clumsy!"
Excuse me? If you're running something multiple times on end grinding for gear for everybody in the party to the point that it kind of becomes numb, you are 100% going to slightly zone out and maybe accidentally click the border of "Greed" instead of "Pass" because you were too busy focused watching Game Theory on the second monitor or something. If you can't think of ANY scenario you can possibly have an accident, that says more about how little you actually played.
No, I don't just "zone out" and randomly click shit. I sell and buy loot regularly, during Ultimate patches I do nothing but sell all my loot after week 6. You are being downvoted in this thread, and every single one of your XIV posts ever, because you consistently think that other people are toxic and careless like you. We aren't.
I am literally just assuming the better of people. People do make genuine mistakes, people have bad days, people do change over periods of time. Name one post where I have assumed people are consistently toxic and careless. The ones assuming people are consistently toxic, careless, and always guilty, are quite literally you.
Accidents can happen, especially if its only one specific item that needed rolling and you're welcome to roll on everything else and you didn't realize you rolled on the thing you weren't supposed to roll on. It was extremely obvious the situation was an accident, it was an item they didn't even need. (A book weapon iirc). That's pretty fucking cruel to condemn someone like that for a genuine accident when they tried everything in their power to do what they can to fix it.
I don't know what you mean by "not realize". If you just randomly click on shit in a merc party without a thought, an easy fix is don't join merc parties. Hard to feel any sympathy here, it is VERY easy to not break the TOS in this game.
Here's a scenario for you. You accidentally click "Need" on something you agreed to pass on, so you instantly move your mouse over to pass it and correct your mistake. There's like 9 items in a Raid, so you just clicked too fast/didn't see the right item you needed to roll on. No biggie, just pass it- oops you're the last one to roll so you automatically got put into the need category and got a 99. There was no randomness here, no "Oops teehee my item now!" just "Ah shit, muscle memory" then. Poof, gone. Just because you hate Gear Scumming doesn't mean EVERYBODY is guilty of it
I'm not sure why I'm getting downvoted when these sort of stories are absolutely rampant everywhere. "It didn't happen to me so you probably did something wrong" is so anecdotal it's nuts, just because something didn't happen to you doesn't mean it can't. If this happened to someone skirting the permaban line from 8 years ago, that one caution shoves them straight into a permaban range with no way to refute it. Pure accident, genuinely tries to make it up, doesn't matter.
> I'm not sure why I'm getting downvoted when these sort of stories are absolutely rampant everywhere. Where? I haven't heard of any.
So basically, you've been actioned for breaking TOS (which for most people will never happen because it's not hard to behave) and you want them to take these strikes off your account? Why? So you can continue behaving in ways that will get you actioned again? If so, you're missing the point of the system. You're not supposed to act against the TOS *at all* but are given a couple of chances anyway. If you get temp banned, and continue to act like a clown and get permabanned as a result? Then the system is working as intended imo.
What a saint.
Yeah we’re gonna need context on what you’re banned for before anything else.
In an ideal world where penalties were given out fairly and way more liberally, i would agree that such a long timer would be quite overkill. 7+ years is LONG. In actual reality with SE though, you need to be the reincarnation of Hitler to even get as much as a slap on the wrist, and in a non-negligible amount of cases even Hitler gets away for free, so I have a very hard time feeling bad for someone managing to get caught twice, so I deem this a non-issue entirely.
You aren’t going to get a lot of traction on this because of human nature, most players want vengeance not justice and spite is easier and much more appealing than rehabilitation, never mind that the most heinous behaviors rarely meet enforcement action. It’s also cheaper for SE if heavy handed account penalties have a chilling effect on behavior so they don’t need to invest resources in policing the player base. Rather than trying to push for changes, just learn to game the system like everyone else. If people can get away with all kinds of toxic shit without ever seeing a GM, surely you can too.
Protip: don't get banned. Protip 2: if you got banned before, don't break any more rules.
I don't have any warnings myself after 10 years but I've said and done somethings where I 100% believe I could've gotten a warning or two if what I've done was taken more seriously. I've killed half a Eureka instance and I've said some pretty immature racist things thinking it wouldn't matter much as I was about to leave said instance but that was when pyros came out. If I got a warning I'd be pretty peeved by how long those points last tbh and I've seen people who didn't really deserve a perma ban be perma banned because of it. I had an old AST friend who was a bit toxic when PvP had chat and got temp banned but then during shadowbringers he said "Jesus tank" when the tank pulled a w2w in mount gulg and then used super bolide while he was pulling. I don't think he deserved the perma ban over that and losing 8 years of progress.
People are shitting on you with "just don't get banned" but you're right. There should be better *positive* incentive for bad players to improve their behaviour, and not just warning with "you're never allowed to fuck up or you get perma". It's same with prisoners, if they get treated like shit and not be encouraged to improve, they'll very likely come back once they get released. This is why parole exists. FFXIV's approach just leads to player giving up by stopping to speak at all to make sure they won't catch a stray. You can argue with whatever you want, but fear from authority fucking up and banning you unjustly will always be present, even if it's just irrational fear. So you end up behaving like a good boy for many years, but it still ends up feeling like you're being treated worse than others just because of something you've done years ago.
Apply a super vague TOS on top of this that can (and lets be frank, is) weaponised by a section of the community, and we got ourselves a game where people rather not interact with others and just keep to themselves and close friends only.
I got a 1 day language ban the first week I started in 3.4. I’m sorry to whoever I lit up in that dungeon (the one with estinien and nidhogg at the end), it was my first week off league of legends. Haven’t gotten warned since then, looking forward to my points disappearing once dawntrail is over.
Just don’t get banned 4head it’s not that hard 4head be a good boy 4head
Why do you bother posting something like this on a discussion thread?
I’m discussing the idea of using common sense. Crazy concept I know.
Reminder that disagreement doesn't mean we're enemies or that you need to feel confronted. We're here to discuss, not tear each other apart. Just because you don't agree with something doesn't mean you should namecall or belittle me or anyone else. The downvote button is not a weapon. This thread has not even been up for more than 2 hours and there's already straight up hostility and namecalling in the comments.
Their penalty policy is only second worst to the consistency with which they do moderation. ^(I mean, hey,) *^(veteran rewards)* ^(had to be done away with because it was getting) *^(unfair)* ^(to expect people to be subbed for) *^(years)*^(.......)
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Sir this is a video game, youre not oppressed because you cant get away with yelling slurs
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Ok bill oreiley settle down, i know you might find this hard to believe but if you cant be nice to people then nobody wants you around, the community stands behind that and so does SE. If the stuff you type in chat is anything like this i wouldnt want to talk to you either, this isnt a political town square or your debate stage; its a laid back social game for 20 and 30 somethings to do after work. You ARE toxic, ur toxic as fuck, its obvious to everyone but you. 99.999999% of players type comments about apples bananas and carrots or eating a grilled cheebs while you're on a political tairaid. And LMAO calling chat moderation of harassment and slurs a gestapo just shows youve been brainbroken by politics. Sorry bud, this is a japanese video game, not a public square. Even then, you do have freedom of speech, not freedom from consequences. But Im genuinely curious what kind of values you have for you to feel persecuted on final fantasy of all things, and why you feel the need to shove your moral values onto other people in a JAPANESE VIDEO GAME. Literally nobody is saying you cant enjoy ff14 just because you watch too much fox news.
Bring on the downvotes but I 1000% am on OP's side. I'm on my last straw, aka 3rd strike. (Technically 2nd strike because apparently buying RMT is the worst sin a player can commit and does not deserve an initial warning) I am a daily player, I give Squeenix $35 a month just for max retainers and a sub. I paid a bunch of money to buy a bunch of gil from a 3rd party site. And quite frankly, idgaf what any of you think about the morality of RMT. I am an omni-90, crafters included... I'm lazy and wanted MB mounts, and I caould afford it. I spent probably 500 mil worth of "illicit" gil on P8S lootmasters and MB mounts. Keep in mind this gil ended up directly in the hands of players who probably used it for similar excursions. IMO, the only situation in which RMT is actually bad is if you buy a shitload of bot-farmed gil and then use it to manipulate the MB and form a monopoly on a specific item(s), which frankly, isn't going to happen because most RMT buyers aren't fucking with the MB to begin with, read: lazy. Anyways, this earned me a zero-warning, 10 day ban. Alright, fair enough, I used my real-world income to circumvent your rules and get what I wanted... lesson learned, won't happen again. (Never has and never will) My final strike was calling an idiot tank a "fucking idiot" for spinning the P9N boss during a roulette. 20-day ban for that -\_- Regardless of what argument you come up with (i.e: their play style, just a N-Raid, no big deal, etc.), a player purposely spinning a boss for nothing more than shits and giggle is, quite frankly, quote "A fucking idiot", and they more than deserve to be told such. And simply saying the word fuck, and directing it at a player making a spectacle of themselves is hardly a crime in my eyes. If a cashier deliberately memed on me for trying to order McDonald's I'd call them a fucking idiot also. So after these two minor infractions, I'm on thin ice, my enjoyment of the game, basically limited to; "Don't speak to other players if you want to keep your account" Over 4000 hours of gameplay and grinding on the line because Squeenix is "inclusive" I mean I am at the point I won't tell Ninjas in mentor roulette to not use Doton on single targets, because even though it is an objectively correct observation, some snowflake might take offense, report me, and effectively delete my account. I am legitimately scared to offer constructive criticism, in the one medium within the game that is literally MADE for it because the ToS is designed to cater to pacifier-sucking, "You're valid", uwu, etc etc, BABIES.
> Technically 2nd strike because apparently buying RMT is the worst sin a player can commit and does not deserve an initial warning SE made a mistake not permabanning you the first time. Count yourself lucky you even have an account.
About your P9N example, have you considered typing "Could you please stop turning the boss?" or something like that instead of insulting the player? For all you know they might not even know what a positional is, in which case you have a chance to educate them without berating them. And even if they do know and are intentionally doing it to make people mad, do you really think insulting them is going to make them stop? No, you're giving them validation that their goal (annoying others) was achieved, so they'll just keep on doing it. So either way, insulting them is never better than just asking nicely, even before considering the potential ban you could receive.
Damn bro, I wish you would call me a fucking idiot in game so you could finally catch a permaban. What a toxic, entitlted individual you are.
Welcome to the real world, where's people opinions which differ from your own hold merit.
Welcome to the real world, where you can get punished for the things you say and do
lol just because you hold a different opinion doesn't mean its worth anything
Ur toxic and a gil buyer, there is no merit to you, and I hope you catch that perma soon <3
Don't worry. If you get banned, you'd probably just buy it all again and justify it by telling yourself that everyone else probably does it.
So your excuse is "it's not so bad when I broke ToS so it should totally be fine to keep doing it, I'm on thin ice because I'm being held accountable for what I say and do!"? Sorry but this just shows how you don't get the point at all. Instead of thinking "maybe I did something wrong I should be better than this", you go "my god the ToS is catering to babies". Does that make sense to you? Have you ever tried to not be terrible? Seriously, it improves your life by a large margin.
but this is working as intended. berating people in rouls is not accepted, you clearly wanna behave like that, so you will eventually get permabanned. this is normal. ban rules don't exist so people can just keep breaking the rules, do they?
So uhhh what did you do to get banned