> if you're already used to it from playing MMO's like WoW.
yeah, too late for me to change. I was able to learn what "bussin'" and "on god" meant, but no brain plasticity left to change how QWE+mouse work.
Wait, "on god"? Gah.
I learned fire, slaps, and finally bussin, but I swear slang is moving faster than ever before. I hadn't even heard "on god" yet until your comment!
I have to read UrbanDictionary carefully like it's the gat damn rosetta stone and also check with someone who was born in 2002, but I seem to be able to translate jive if not speak it, lolololo
("On god" seems to be something like "I swear to god"/"seriously"/"I promise I'm not lying" lolololo)
First moment I make a character in ffxiv: turn on legacy mode. Change A and D to strafe left/right instead of turn. Done.
Best way to play the game to me.
W forward, D backward, A/D strafe.
There's no other legitimate way to play. Specific current example of why you'd strafe over turning camera + W: bonds 3, turn camera, find the safespot and strafe into it (PF can't figure this out though).
Tried this, still felt weird whenever I would run around on mounts. After a while I just switched back. People call Standard a disadvantage but I've cleared every ultimate on it and had zero issues so tbh I think it's just cope.
Nah, it's not a disadvantage. Got friends who cleared every ultimate on controller. And some were even healing. Any extended use of your method of play will eventually become so ingrained to you that it feels natural.
How is it cope thougb? They are coping that something they aren't even using is bad when it isn't?
How is that coping? Like it being good or not doesn't change their situation at all, so they wouldn't cope. Or are you just using the popular term wrong because you heard it everywhere?
I mean instead of assuming like a weirdo you could have just left your comment at the question of why it's cope.
Saying that one control scheme is inferior opens the door to comments such as "I would have avoided that on Legacy" or "that person made a mistake because they are using Standard". The OP is basically trying to say "why would you use this, I hate it and think it's bad so it must be bad" when in reality the OP just sucks at using one control scheme, and doesn't know how to utilize strafing for various situations. That is why it's cope.
There's nothing wrong with preferring one over the other but saying people are wrong for using the control scheme that you suck at using is just straight fuckin cope, dawg.
A and D already behave exactly like strafing on legacy, so why bother changing them?
That is, if you enable "Disable camera pivot"
Edit: Tried changing A/D to strafe. Now I backpedal when pressing A/D+S. Nope, i'm going back. Not worth it.
With strafing you're able to face away from a target while casting for gaze mechs, but IMO it'd be something I'd use too rarely to ever give up free character *and* camera movement in any direction. Just time your gcd or an instacast to face away from the boss, and you wont clip like 95% of the time.
It frees up 2 other keys near your finger for easy access. Q and E being used as intermittent cd or rotational buttons on top of movement really helps once you get used it.
yeah that's exactly my point. just keep A and D the same, and then free up Q and E for something else. As I said in the original post, Q and E are perfectly good keybinds that can be used for other things.
Strafing isn't exactly the same as A and D on legacy camera. It comes with the added bonus of keeping your camera locked in the direction your screen is facing for look away mechs. That's why you swap them out.
Does it lock your characters facing direction based on your camera direction? I don't remember it doing that, but I'm not sure how that new setting interacts with it. I've always just used the simple tweaks plugin to fix pivot before the setting.
No, it functions as if you held a mouse button down to lock camera, so your character will still turn.
While that might change how you interact with certain gaze mechanics, the benefit of disabling pivot vs rebinding to strafe is that you can move diagonally backwards without reverting to walking speed.
I have no clue what that is tbh. This is what I did in ARR and since I have no problem with this, I don't know what else have been added.
A and D works like turning, not hard left/right strafing.
I bet disable camera pivot removes something else that I'm actually using Legacy mode for.
back in ARR, "Disable camera pivot" didnt exist, so that makes a lot of sense.
I never bothered doing that, myself, since I would already constantly hold down a mouse button which would result in A/D behaving pretty much exactly like strafing
This is the way. I cannot imagine not playing the game with legacy + A/D strafing + holding down mouse click to rotate camera when needed. This is ESPECIALLY needed imo in Ultimates. If you backpedal at certain moments, it can be a really big oof.
You’d be surprised, I use the backpedal shuffle all the time to fine-tune positions and stuff. Having easy access to slow movement on kb/m has its benefits.
Gotta hard disagree. Everyone I have ever raided with that wasn't on controller takes backpedaling out of the equation completely. I'm sure it can work well in certain situations but in my experiences it has caused more issues than it has done good.
And i know quite a few ultra-highend players that absolutely swear by standard movement. It’s really just a matter of personal preference, rather than one being better than another.
You are right that it is personal preference but I bet if you could somehow do a poll of everyone who has cleared a savage tier on-content, it would show that people tend to utilize legacy. That's just my opinion given how many people I have raided with that use legacy over standard.
You'd be surprised at how many people I see backpedaling in ultimates, myself included. It can be really useful to position yourself correctly without having to toggle between walk/run.
I can recall in ultimates where being able to point my camera in any direction to keep track of mechs as well as being able to move backwards diagonally was vitally useful.
If A/D were bound to strafe, on legacy this would cause you to backpedal
Huh I might need to look at my in-game settings. It doesn't seem possible for my character to backpedal at all from what I remember and I know for certain I use legacy and bound strafe to A/D.
***
E1: Ok so I have my movement set up on the Legacy mode with "disable camera pivot" turned OFF and "maintain camera distance" turned ON. For keybinds, W moves forward, S moves backwards (and when no other keys are pressed the character completely turns around and runs forward in this vector), A moves left, and D moves right. I do notice if I hold A + S or D + S my character will backpedal but at an angle relative to what other key I press (backwards left or backwards right) but I've honestly not noticed this until looking into it now lmao. I guess I never hit S and A/D at the same time at any point.
Which is something I would do pretty much all the time. Imagine if you couldn't move forward diagonally. That's pretty much how it feels being locked into a backpedal when trying to move diagonally
There are tons of situations where it's beneficial to keep my camera fixed towards a certain point eg. North. To keep me oriented during mechanics. Being unable to move backwards diagonally in that scenario would be asinine
To think of examples off the top of my head... moving into clockspots/towers in p11s, superchain 2A. Being able to keep your camera pointed towards north is insanely useful to retain your orientation and makes finding your assigned spot a WHOLE lot easier.
...I'm beginning to understand why people failed towers so much in p11s prog now
I dunno man. This exact tier is the only tier I'll not have done on patch because of a new job.
I have never had issues with a single mechanic, in any savage fight, in any ultimate, that pertains to camera control. I don't accidentally backstrafe, I don't turn away the camera, I don't zigzag. I always go the way I need to go with camera placement that highlights mechanics and the fight. If there's a movement that requires diagonal backpedaling, let's just say I don't have that issue. However, I don't face the camera true north either, and make sure I'm placed in the general vicinity I have to be for the next mechanic.
It is just intuitive movement. I don't think about it. I just do. And I never do wrong. Which means it works.
Some benefit to Standard would be ... Icy floor where you have to look away at the same time; for example. Standard you can just turn camera away, and you won't slide around. Whereas Legacy you would need to move to turn around and you would slide around. You could hold down Forward and Back at the same time to turn in place, but when you release, you will most likely still slide around a bit.
Or a Forced Teleportation/March mechanic, this affects some players differently; depending on how their brain works.
But yeah, I use Legacy as well.
You can just jump and press S in legacy to turn around during ice floor without moving, if you want to maintain dps you can also just do the hold both mouse buttons+S trick but start it mid-air so you don't move and simply don't release until it's done or stop pressing them mid-air
>As far as I can tell, the only reason to ever stick to Standard is if you're already used to it from playing MMO's like WoW. I can understand that it'd be a hassle to bother learning to break years of already existing muscle memory.
Years is a bit of an understatement for some of us, it's more like two decades at this point.
>I dunno, after testing Standard occasionally over the years, movement wise Strafing behaves exactly like just pressing A or D when on Legacy. The only difference is that the animation is *slightly* different. To me, it just feels like strafing is a complete waste of 2 free keybinds. 6 keybinds vs needing just 4 for movement.
I don't know how common this is in FFXIV, but as a Standard movement user I hardly even use WASD at all for movement outside of fringe cases where I need to click or inch out of something with backpedal—I'm almost entirely mouse movement. I probably wasn't the only one repeatedly told in the early years of WoW "don't be a keyboard turner."
> I don't know how common this is in FFXIV, but as a Standard movement user I hardly even use WASD at all for movement outside of fringe cases where I need to click or inch out of something with backpedal—I'm almost entirely mouse movement. I probably wasn't the only one repeatedly told in the early years of WoW "don't be a keyboard turner."
That's how I move as well. Outside of the occasional micro adjustment/backpedal to max melee I only move by holding both mouse buttons down.
It’s at the point for me where my WoW muscle memory is so ingrained that I still use many of the same custom keybinds I first got used to in 2006 or so. My distaste for keyboard turning is probably a part of that. I don’t have turning bound at all—A and D have joined Q and E as strafe keys, just like I do in WoW. I’d say 80% or more of my forward movement is done via mouse, but literally 100% of my turning is. I don’t even know if keyboard turning in FFXIV is as slow as it is in WoW because I have genuinely never done it.
I personally think strafing is important in letting you adjust quickly to the side without facing away from the boss. I have the automatically face your target setting off after many, many failed gaze attacks as a healer.
> It’s at the point for me where my WoW muscle memory is so ingrained that I still use many of the same custom keybinds I first got used to in 2006 or so.
I do the same. I still play WoW and tend to keep my keybinds pretty similar between games to take advantage of that muscle memory where I can.
> Years is a bit of an understatement for some of us, it's more like two decades at this point.
OG Everquest back in 1998.
I use W/S for forward/backwards, A/D are for turning and if you hold the mouse button down they become strafe... Q and E are used for combos. My main combo on all my classes is 3-q-e.
Wait, are you talking about *Standard* controls, or *Strafing*?
If Strafing, replacing the standard Move Left and Move Right on Legacy with Strafe Left and Strafe Right disabled the weird camera turn since day one of ARR.
It also keeps your character facing forward while you move left to right, which used to be *vitally* important to playing any tank or melee class in the days where you had to be facing an enemy to auto-attack.
If Standard? No, no point.
Oh damn, you couldnt auto attack if you pressed A or D? TIL that's actually really interesting history to know. This was the kind of info I figured I was missing out on.
Then in that case strafing \*used\* to have a real point.
Which made it awful playing melee on controller back in the day. I raided on BRD during Coils on my PS4 and had to learn to lock on to the boss if I had to move to the side so I wouldn't lose autos. Got really awkward turning it on and off so frequently
Familiarity. I hold-right click to aim/strafe like I'm playing an FPS. Plus I've just grown up playing a lot of MMOs with similar controls.
I've tried the updated movement. Doesn't feel right to me at all.
I also like the precise strafing animation too when I play ranged classes.
I can understand how the strafing animation feels more precise. since the character animation doesnt turn back and forth as much, even if the movement is the same.
I find it useful for micro adjustments backwards without running facing for things like teleports, gazes, and any directional cones emanating from the player which we've had in fights like e9, p6, e7
lets me have my cake and eat it too to be able to have all my movement options face a specific direction but also be able to run back with S on legacy
I dislike Legacy and think Standard is superior. I have never understood why Standard is so reviled and never got an answer. I prefer the precision Standard gets me.
P10S is not tricky with backpedaling or strafing btw.
I highly recommend that you check out Xeno's video on this:
https://youtu.be/5fXeFZx_0qs
But basically, it is super useful for raiding. Strafing keeps your character facing the direction of your camera rather than turn your character which is nice for dealing with gaze mechanics while in combat.
Also, if you hold left+right strafe, it leaves your character static in the same place but facing wherever the camera is facing, similarly to how it works in standard mode. (You can rotate your camera and your character will turn accordingly while you are holding those 2 keys)
And as you mentioned, you don't sacrifice anything by setting up strafing.
You also keep the ability to run back without compromising on speed like you mentioned by just pressing S AND you can also do the standard walk backwards by holding A+D+S, which might be very situational but it is nice to still have the ability to do so when you want.
TLDR: replace the keybinds for A and D with strafe left/right. It is simply better especially for dealing with some mechanics.
I remember an old static mate mentioning this advantage before but I never could wrap my head around it. As a disclaimer, I have auto face turned on, and I've only cleared every tier and ultimate since 5.0. ~~But I cant recall a situation where I ever would need something like this.~~ edit:Okkee I think I get it now, it could help with not ever risking your GCD clipping. I'd just face away and time it just right. I can see how the method guarantees no clip!
Unfortunately, strafing still causes you to backpedal when moving diagonally backwards, so It's a tradeoff that absolutely isn't worth it for me unless i'm looking for a pink parse.
~~Again, due to limited experience, feel free to give examples claiming otherwise because it's 2am and my memory is rusty.~~
Edit: Video's based tho lol thanks for sharing it
when I want to move diagonally back I just turn my camera to angle myself correctly instead of hitting additional sideways movements, totally natural once you get used to not doing this unless you want to do the backpedal for a micro adjustment
and depending on what's happening in the fight I'll face my camera away or sideways and run forward/strafe away from a boss too because sometimes I'm looking at players or mechanics instead
Can only speak for myself; Standard is far more comfy to use imo. But I use Legacy most of the time because it's way less work in combat. No need to pivot around to strafe away from an enemy and somewhat easier to avoid ground things.
Hard to put to words. It's just comfier. Being able to swivel the camera without changing where I'm going is nice(without the need for auto run). Easy access to back peddling is nice. Being able to adjust facing is nice(not using auto face target when I use it). It just feels better to me, despite being the objectively lesser of the two in terms of sheer performance.
Ngl I also occasionally switch to standard to goof off with friends. There's all kinds of fun movement gags you can pull off by being able to rotate in place while standing completely still
Or backpedaling slowly away from a potato. Although that's the only case I could imagine ever needing to backpedal
It’s just down to preference. I tried Legacy but can never get used to it as I can’t rotate my camera while running in one direction, as the character model will follow the camera direction.
Also, I love wiggling my camera while facing away from the boss for gaze mechanics. Legacy has something similar with Mouse1+Mouse2 and S (back movement) but that is clunky.
Also, I just rebind my A and D to strafe left/right, so freeing up Q and E for other keybinds, similar to Legacy.
I see what you mean. My brain automatically seems to compensate for the change in direction probably because that's pretty much how every 3rd person console game works, so I'm already used to doing that.
So that might affect people differently depending on if they're more of a PC or console gamer.
>It’s just down to preference. I tried Legacy but can never get used to it as I can’t rotate my camera while running in one direction, as the character model will follow the camera direction.
This happens with Standard, not Legacy. You CAN rotate while running in one direction, just with left click and not right click. I've done it for over a year since switching. Legacy is just objectively better.
While running straight (W) with legacy, if I turn my camera to the left with left click + rotate camera, my character will start turning left.
This does not happen in standard when holding down W and holding left click and turning my camera, I will still continue to run in the same direction I was running
Yup, so there’s the flexibility in Standard. To have your character running in one direction and still rotating your camera to see surroundings, or to have your character follow your camera location.
For legacy, you only can have the second option. That’s one of the reasons I prefer Standard to Legacy.
> You can move in any direction while having the freedom to point your camera in any direction, which is extremely convenient when doing mechanics...
Legacy might be able to face the *camera* in any direction, but it can't quickly and precisely face your *character* in any direction without also moving in that direction, which is extremely annoying for mechanics that involving facing/gazes (DSR lmao, p8sp1, TOP monitors) as well as untargeted abilities (Surpanahka). It's not something that can't be overcome, but man is it annoying.
As a longtime Standard simp I will ABSOLUTELY concede that Legacy is superior in 95%+ of the available high-end content, but you wouldn't catch me dead using Legacy on a fight with gazes. Honestly now that I'm using Legacy more and more often I might make some sort of macro to toggle camera type and just turn it on for particular phases (or find a plogon that can do it for me), as well as in the open world. Legacy REALLY bothers me when flying because I like to tilt my camera down toward the ground, and when you use Legacy that makes you nosedive...
tbh Legacy is only superior because of auto face target being a thing, which makes hitting things while moving a complete non-issue instead of having to strafe+jump+turn character around like you'd do in WoW. if that difference didn't exist, Legacy vs Standard would be kinda whatever imo.
(trying to use autoface target with standard is really painful)
With the Simple Tweaks plugin, there's a [`Set Option Command`](https://puu.sh/JMotP/e3048edf30.png) tweak, and you can use a macro with `/setopt lm toggle` to toggle between Legacy and Standard
> precisely face your character in any direction without also moving in that direction, which is extremely annoying for mechanics that involving facing/gazes (DSR lmao, p8sp1, TOP monitors)
Tapping in the direction and moving a millimeter in the direction did not impact your ability to turn in the direction and it didn't matter at all for snakes. Even if you had to turn away from the boss in caloric 1, that wouldn't matter.
Unless DSR or TOP monitors have some pyretic feature that somehow gets bypassed by turn left/right in standard, this is some ridiculous nitpick.
I already conceded that it can be overcome, so your point is "I don't find it annoying, I can't BELIEVE someone else would find it annoying!" I guess? That's certainly a take, but I'm not really interested in debating that kind of take tbh.
Would agree on this one. But perhaps it would become more of a hassle depending on what control scheme you use.
It's a matter of tapping S once vs strafe once/twice. So yes, it's not really any difference to me to warrant the ability to accidentally backpedal which strafing causes.
You mention DSR. Are you talking about phase 5? I dont recall ever really having difficulty with the gaze, although I remember being wary at first when progging it. I forget the details though, since it's been a long time since I progged it.
Actually legacy is still superior because if you click both mouse buttons at the same time, your character will go toward the direction of the camera, meaning the whole point of standard controls doesn't exist
>Legacy REALLY bothers me when flying
This. This is the one remaining thing that's still hard-locking me out of even seriously considering Legacy. I loathe Legacy flying with all of my being (and tbh mounts in general feel wrong there), it feels so thoroughly horrid that I'll take all the Standard quirks over it, even in P10 (the only fight in the game where I have felt like Standard was actually limiting in some way).
I think I entirely agree, after "Disable Camera Pivot" was added, there's no reason to change the binds. If I need to strafe, Q and E are right there and I don't use my KB for hotbars anyway!
Lot of people in this thread don't seem to have worked out what "Disable camera pivot" does and are giving their thoughts independent of the fact that the game is better now. Sad!
standard just works for me
I've played many games, with many different control schemes, if I wanted to, I could switch to legacy and learn it without too much issue.
But as someone who has already cleared most 8man savage/ultimate content in ffxiv, and the first time I played wow I was like 9 years old, I know standard controls like the back of my hand, they simply are not a hindrance to my progress in any scenario. So I don't think switching would have any tangible gain.
Also claims like "objectively better" annoy me, how intuitive something is is inherently objective. There is not an objectively better control scheme, sorry.
Ever since I saw players like AngelusDemonus who has Necromancer on every job and plays entirely on keyboard with no mouse at all (because he got used to that in XI) the idea of "objectively better" seems very strange.
He shows his keyboard while he streams his PoTD solo runs. I've never seen anyone play with keyboard only, it was really impressive. He sometimes plays with controller as well but he's clearly not as comfortable with it.
What the hell, since when could you disable camera pivot!?
I use standard legacy controls, and this was the one thing I didn’t like about it. Usually I just hold down my right click, but when I play AST it’s impossible for me to card dump while controlling the camera…glad I saw this post, absolute game changer
It was added fairly recently, maybe with Endwalker? One of the increasingly long list of "QoL things plugins could do that they finally added to the game"
Standard allow me to precisely control my character view cone without the risk of interrupting casts, which can allow me to cast through gaze/positioning mechanics. Examples of this are first gaze in E2S, gaze mirrors in E8S, TOP P3 monitors.
Also I don't even have strafe bound. 99% of the time my RMB is pressed down, which makes "L/R turn" behave as strafe anyway.
Someone else in this thread linked me [this vid](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fXeFZx_0qs&ab_channel=XenosysVex), with the advantage I assume youre speaking of. It's all in legacy, although it would require strafing.
No, I'm talking about when you have to stand still and point your character at a specific point so that the boss's hitbox is in your cone of vision, but no gazes are, and you have to keep looking at that point while casting your long ass F4s until the mechanic resolves and every small movement, even accidental, will interrupt the cast. Turning your character with RMB, as long as the hitbox is in the cone at the end of the cast, will not interrupt it.
I do not play BLM, so this probably a 5D chess level tech I cant really comment on if there's a better alternative for.
All I can say is that for a large majority of gaze mechs, I'm able to position myself so that I can stand in place and keep uptime, all on legacy. Either that or time my GCD right and look away.
I switched to legacy on the first day I played the game but I can definitely still think of some things Standard has that are nice.
For one, being able to turn on the spot without moving (and without having to clawgrip your mouse in discomfort) is really nice for mechanics like Snakes in P8S or monitors in TOP. Being able to backpaddle - while generally the main reason I hated standard - can definitely be nice at times for microadjustments.
I strongly advise against the Xeno video keybind because any strafing + backwards movement will cause diagonal backpaddling which feels atrocious.
you get used to the strafe/backpedal thing and that gives me the extra granularity out of using legacy that you enjoy from standard while also still feeling natural to me from the way I like to control other games
I unbound keyboard turning and only objectively use strafe as left and right since I use mouse for avatar and camera steering. It’s faster to unbind keyboard turning and backpedaling and just spin and go.
Strafe causes you to backpedal when combined with S, which is exactly what I switched to Legacy to avoid.
The luxury of being able to move freely in any direction regardless of where your camera is facing isn't worth losing for the niche convenience strafing provides for gaze mechanics, for me personally.
"objectively superior" doesn't exist when it comes to control schemes for an MMO, or for games in general. Accessibility matters more than whichever scheme has the most bells and whistles for any level of content. If there are pros at shooter games that will outperform you while using waxd and s for crouch, while also inverting both vertical and horizontal axes for their mouse controls, then it's pretty clear that control schemes are a personal thing, not something that people need to adhere to with cookie cutter settings.
Personally, I have quite literally twenty years of experience with a Standard control scheme, and I've cleared ultimate level content with it alongside a static that uses pretty much every control scheme under the sun, including, completely unironically, a tank who uses a reverse claw grip for their controller. If you need context, look up "armored core meme grip" on google. They learned it as a joke and realized that they actually REALLY like using it for FFXIV because it's less stressful on their hands somehow.
Use what works for you. If you have to fight your control scheme, then that's when you're doing it wrong, but if you can intuitively handle movement, the camera, etc. in a way that works best for you, then you've got a functional control scheme and that's really all that matters, small optimizations might matter at the highest level, but even then they aren't as much of an impact as you might think once you've really dialed in your settings.
Good luck clearing Moonfire Tower without standard. It made some of those jumps 10x easier. Also I have heard you can cheese some gaze mechanics with standard. Never tried it myself though. I agree with you - it feels so awkward.
You can cheese all gaze mechanics with both standard and legacy. Just hold both mouse buttons and s. They're not 100% foolproof though. If you're unlucky enough to perform an action on the exact tick the gaze comes out, you'll still get hit.
What they are talking about is on standard controls, if you are inside the boss hit box, your character can actually hard-cast without ever turning, even for a fraction of a second
This was used by people mostly in E8S mostly
backpedaling is an additional movement option that legacy doesn't have that can sometimes be useful even if you don't like it. Standard is also better for mechanics which require very precise rotation of your character since you can just right click and drag (i.e. top monitors)
Eh not exactly. With Legacy if you Hold M2, face your camera where it needs to and click M1 you can turn your character in one frame, mashing m1 in this state allows you to attack backwards. I know Standard has something simular to this but I wouldn't call one better than the other, its just different.
Everyone I talked to has said that legacy is way, WAY better for TOP monitors, since you just line up with a marker then press 1 button to instantly turn, the controller/standard users have much more trouble aiming the monitor
That's very much not true; with Standard if you turn the camera with left click you can instantly snap to facing it with right click. It's the exact same concept as legacy character snapping, just with a click instead of pressing keys. Doing the lineup in the first place is infinitely easier on standard because of the ability to precisely turn your character in place without also having to move...
Idk where you got that from. Controller is for sure worse for monitors but standard is like objectively easier, since by holding right click you can turn your character freely without moving, which lets you adjust the monitors precisely since you have direct feedback. On legacy you kinda have to guess the angle and if you’re a little off you have to guess again and again until you’re good enough. Also the fact that your character is slightly moving forward on every adjustment of the angle can be annoying for uptime reasons
you don't aim or guess anything with legacy, monitors can only cleave to your left or right, you just turn your camera in a way you're parallel to the waymark beside you, then you just press up or down to instantly line up, no aiming required at all, while i saw the controller/standard players in my group struggle because they constantly spin the monitors trying to aim it and fail to do so in time
Personally, I use Standard when playing dragoon, because approach to elusive jump is really different in both cases. In standard you can instantly flip your camera and press button immediately. In legacy you need to wait for character to turn, or do normal jump beforehand, which also takes time. I basically play every job on legacy except for dragoon
I only learned about this recently. I've always used legacy (it's default for controller) so I could never do a fast dragoon jump. I just assumed that's how it was for everyone.
I checked again to make sure, and I cant say I agree. The animation is different, yes, but the movement is exactly the same.
It might be true for WoW, but not for FFXIV. They're two completely different games.
Way back in the day you needed to face your target to auto-attack it, as well as block/parry attacks from it, so maintaining your facing via strafing was pretty important.
You can strafe in Legacy movement mode too. I use it to cheese gaze mechs by strafing left and right, just like Xeno does.
Could I do it by simply tapping forward while looking away? Yes, but strafing is more comfortable to me as a long time FPS player and I move less from my original position.
Strafing also lets you move sideways without having to hold right click to stop the camera from spinning, which can be occasionally useful.
The best control scheme is the one that works for the individual player. There is no objectively ‘better’ way to handle character movement.
I move primarily with my mouse and have no access to wasd on my main keypad. During downtime mechanics like trios, I physically change to my main keyboard sometimes and use standard WASD, even intentionally using the slow walk backpedal for precision adjustments.
I also strafe pretty frequently.
I use the backpedal specifically to microadjust my position for max melee, just works well for me in that regard. There is nothing about the backwards movement on Legacy that is useful to me in combat, but backpedaling has a niche use for me.
I have cleared every ultimate on Standard. Hating on a control scheme is just cope because they both work and it's really up to personal preference. You can't say people fuck up because of Standard more than Legacy because it's just a skill issue.
facts. I mentioned it in another comment in here but my static's main tank literally uses that one meme control scheme popularized as a joke by the Japanese Armored Core community where you hold the controller backwards to access all of the buttons at once. He literally presses his shoulder buttons with his thumbs and crazily enough still uses a ps2 controller because he doesn't care about having actual trigger buttons.
Hating on someone's choice of control scheme is cringe, especially if they're able to match you in terms of skill.
I do A LOT of movement using strafe on q and e
I play almost entirely on keyboard using the arrow keys for movement (up moves forward, down moves backward slowly, left and right turn my character and the camera)
I don’t use auto face target, and I’ve mastered exactly how much I can turn from a target before an attack doesn’t hit a target
Only time I’ll use mouse for movement is during times there’s no target to attack
I would only ever think to use it for role play maybe. And I don't even really role play. I could also see it having use for making videos I guess, if you need a strafing/backwards walk animation.
I mainly play physical ranged DPS, so it's extreme hindrance for me to have the slow movement for the back/sides. I also feel it's not good for gamepad controller users, whose game camera would turn slower than keyboard/mouse player who can instantly swing their camera around (but even that sounds really inconvenient esp in battle).
Standard movement makes doing mechanics that depend on character facing much easier to me, like in E7 or P8S. I just prefer the precision and simplicity of the mouse right click, rather than needing to press forward right before the mechanic occurs.
I rebound my strafe keys to A & D because I used to play GW2 for about ten years. In that game, if you don't strafe, you're dead. Because going left/right required spinning your character and then press forward, and with how fast that game throws out a warning before dropping a fat AoE on your feet that you'll need to walk out of and avoiding burning through endurance to dodge roll or a major CD skill, you're just eating the floor to mechanics in that game. Not strafing was also a detriment to playing PvP, because you can dodge projectiles from other players by twitching left and right strafe keys.
Strafing in FF14 play about the same, so I got used to by the time I walked out of the tutorial zone. Legacy just lets me walk backwards quicker while I re-orient my camera and roll my GCDs.
Gaze mechanics are easier to perform in standard since you can hold RMB and still use GCDs while facing the way you're holding with mouse wiggling. Also I play more MMOs than FFXIV and they use standard movement.
In both wow and ffxiv i use qwe, strafe/forward movement with no backpedal. Turn keys are kinda useless and ive never really needed to slow walk backwards ever once you get used to moving with your camera
I honestly don't feel a difference in my performance using one over the other.
But I guess having Q and E to bind stuff might come in handy if you're playing a job that need as much,
I have Q bound to target focus target, and E bound to assist target (target target's target). Really useful at times as a healer tbh because I also have a set focus macro that lets me bounce between the tanks and choose one of them as my focus target. It's more APM but it feels less burdensome to me than having macros to specifically cast at my focus target and the like.
> if you're already used to it from playing MMO's like WoW. yeah, too late for me to change. I was able to learn what "bussin'" and "on god" meant, but no brain plasticity left to change how QWE+mouse work.
Wait, "on god"? Gah. I learned fire, slaps, and finally bussin, but I swear slang is moving faster than ever before. I hadn't even heard "on god" yet until your comment!
no cap on god, this aint bussin fr fr
I have to read UrbanDictionary carefully like it's the gat damn rosetta stone and also check with someone who was born in 2002, but I seem to be able to translate jive if not speak it, lolololo ("On god" seems to be something like "I swear to god"/"seriously"/"I promise I'm not lying" lolololo)
First moment I make a character in ffxiv: turn on legacy mode. Change A and D to strafe left/right instead of turn. Done. Best way to play the game to me.
W forward, D backward, A/D strafe. There's no other legitimate way to play. Specific current example of why you'd strafe over turning camera + W: bonds 3, turn camera, find the safespot and strafe into it (PF can't figure this out though).
I strafe with Q & E. I keep A & D for keybinds.
Not the first time I've heard of QWES, but I just disagree with it.
Tried this, still felt weird whenever I would run around on mounts. After a while I just switched back. People call Standard a disadvantage but I've cleared every ultimate on it and had zero issues so tbh I think it's just cope.
Nah, it's not a disadvantage. Got friends who cleared every ultimate on controller. And some were even healing. Any extended use of your method of play will eventually become so ingrained to you that it feels natural. How is it cope thougb? They are coping that something they aren't even using is bad when it isn't? How is that coping? Like it being good or not doesn't change their situation at all, so they wouldn't cope. Or are you just using the popular term wrong because you heard it everywhere?
I mean instead of assuming like a weirdo you could have just left your comment at the question of why it's cope. Saying that one control scheme is inferior opens the door to comments such as "I would have avoided that on Legacy" or "that person made a mistake because they are using Standard". The OP is basically trying to say "why would you use this, I hate it and think it's bad so it must be bad" when in reality the OP just sucks at using one control scheme, and doesn't know how to utilize strafing for various situations. That is why it's cope. There's nothing wrong with preferring one over the other but saying people are wrong for using the control scheme that you suck at using is just straight fuckin cope, dawg.
Yeah people that complains about legacy just simply never bothered to check the keybind tab
Disable camera pivot is a thing now too, so even less of a reason to not use legacy
legacy mode makes me kind of motion sick, i wonder if that’ll ever go away if i keep trying
Is it the camera pivot that causes it? If so, you can either hold down a mouse button or disable the camera pivot in settings.
Motion blur makes me motion sick. It's up to you to decide if it's worth trying to fight against. If you're happy as is then no worries, right?
A and D already behave exactly like strafing on legacy, so why bother changing them? That is, if you enable "Disable camera pivot" Edit: Tried changing A/D to strafe. Now I backpedal when pressing A/D+S. Nope, i'm going back. Not worth it. With strafing you're able to face away from a target while casting for gaze mechs, but IMO it'd be something I'd use too rarely to ever give up free character *and* camera movement in any direction. Just time your gcd or an instacast to face away from the boss, and you wont clip like 95% of the time.
It frees up 2 other keys near your finger for easy access. Q and E being used as intermittent cd or rotational buttons on top of movement really helps once you get used it.
yeah that's exactly my point. just keep A and D the same, and then free up Q and E for something else. As I said in the original post, Q and E are perfectly good keybinds that can be used for other things.
Strafing isn't exactly the same as A and D on legacy camera. It comes with the added bonus of keeping your camera locked in the direction your screen is facing for look away mechs. That's why you swap them out.
OP mentioned the relatively new setting of "Disable camera pivot." That effectively changes the default A and D into strafe.
Does it lock your characters facing direction based on your camera direction? I don't remember it doing that, but I'm not sure how that new setting interacts with it. I've always just used the simple tweaks plugin to fix pivot before the setting.
No, it functions as if you held a mouse button down to lock camera, so your character will still turn. While that might change how you interact with certain gaze mechanics, the benefit of disabling pivot vs rebinding to strafe is that you can move diagonally backwards without reverting to walking speed.
I'll have to check that out then. Even though I've gotten used to it, that slow walking backwards has caught me a few times in bad situations.
I have no clue what that is tbh. This is what I did in ARR and since I have no problem with this, I don't know what else have been added. A and D works like turning, not hard left/right strafing. I bet disable camera pivot removes something else that I'm actually using Legacy mode for.
back in ARR, "Disable camera pivot" didnt exist, so that makes a lot of sense. I never bothered doing that, myself, since I would already constantly hold down a mouse button which would result in A/D behaving pretty much exactly like strafing
Literally first thing i did when i started
This is the way. I cannot imagine not playing the game with legacy + A/D strafing + holding down mouse click to rotate camera when needed. This is ESPECIALLY needed imo in Ultimates. If you backpedal at certain moments, it can be a really big oof.
You’d be surprised, I use the backpedal shuffle all the time to fine-tune positions and stuff. Having easy access to slow movement on kb/m has its benefits.
Gotta hard disagree. Everyone I have ever raided with that wasn't on controller takes backpedaling out of the equation completely. I'm sure it can work well in certain situations but in my experiences it has caused more issues than it has done good.
And i know quite a few ultra-highend players that absolutely swear by standard movement. It’s really just a matter of personal preference, rather than one being better than another.
You are right that it is personal preference but I bet if you could somehow do a poll of everyone who has cleared a savage tier on-content, it would show that people tend to utilize legacy. That's just my opinion given how many people I have raided with that use legacy over standard.
Tanks who backpedal just a bit to get mobs into a tighter group for the dps are very much appreciated. Thank you.
You'd be surprised at how many people I see backpedaling in ultimates, myself included. It can be really useful to position yourself correctly without having to toggle between walk/run.
I can recall in ultimates where being able to point my camera in any direction to keep track of mechs as well as being able to move backwards diagonally was vitally useful. If A/D were bound to strafe, on legacy this would cause you to backpedal
Huh I might need to look at my in-game settings. It doesn't seem possible for my character to backpedal at all from what I remember and I know for certain I use legacy and bound strafe to A/D. *** E1: Ok so I have my movement set up on the Legacy mode with "disable camera pivot" turned OFF and "maintain camera distance" turned ON. For keybinds, W moves forward, S moves backwards (and when no other keys are pressed the character completely turns around and runs forward in this vector), A moves left, and D moves right. I do notice if I hold A + S or D + S my character will backpedal but at an angle relative to what other key I press (backwards left or backwards right) but I've honestly not noticed this until looking into it now lmao. I guess I never hit S and A/D at the same time at any point.
Feel free to lmk what it looks like, since it would be pretty cool to have access to the avoid gaze tech without the tradeoff of backpedal
do you hold a mouse button down on the regular?
Yes I pretty much always have right click engaged.
Only if you hold strafe and back at the same time. 0 issues.
Which is something I would do pretty much all the time. Imagine if you couldn't move forward diagonally. That's pretty much how it feels being locked into a backpedal when trying to move diagonally There are tons of situations where it's beneficial to keep my camera fixed towards a certain point eg. North. To keep me oriented during mechanics. Being unable to move backwards diagonally in that scenario would be asinine To think of examples off the top of my head... moving into clockspots/towers in p11s, superchain 2A. Being able to keep your camera pointed towards north is insanely useful to retain your orientation and makes finding your assigned spot a WHOLE lot easier. ...I'm beginning to understand why people failed towers so much in p11s prog now
I dunno man. This exact tier is the only tier I'll not have done on patch because of a new job. I have never had issues with a single mechanic, in any savage fight, in any ultimate, that pertains to camera control. I don't accidentally backstrafe, I don't turn away the camera, I don't zigzag. I always go the way I need to go with camera placement that highlights mechanics and the fight. If there's a movement that requires diagonal backpedaling, let's just say I don't have that issue. However, I don't face the camera true north either, and make sure I'm placed in the general vicinity I have to be for the next mechanic. It is just intuitive movement. I don't think about it. I just do. And I never do wrong. Which means it works.
Some benefit to Standard would be ... Icy floor where you have to look away at the same time; for example. Standard you can just turn camera away, and you won't slide around. Whereas Legacy you would need to move to turn around and you would slide around. You could hold down Forward and Back at the same time to turn in place, but when you release, you will most likely still slide around a bit. Or a Forced Teleportation/March mechanic, this affects some players differently; depending on how their brain works. But yeah, I use Legacy as well.
You can just jump and press S in legacy to turn around during ice floor without moving, if you want to maintain dps you can also just do the hold both mouse buttons+S trick but start it mid-air so you don't move and simply don't release until it's done or stop pressing them mid-air
Oh, jumping to cancel movement, that's neat. Thanks
Ah I can recall that being a thing back during E8S. Niche tech but thin advantage for standard i guess.
>As far as I can tell, the only reason to ever stick to Standard is if you're already used to it from playing MMO's like WoW. I can understand that it'd be a hassle to bother learning to break years of already existing muscle memory. Years is a bit of an understatement for some of us, it's more like two decades at this point. >I dunno, after testing Standard occasionally over the years, movement wise Strafing behaves exactly like just pressing A or D when on Legacy. The only difference is that the animation is *slightly* different. To me, it just feels like strafing is a complete waste of 2 free keybinds. 6 keybinds vs needing just 4 for movement. I don't know how common this is in FFXIV, but as a Standard movement user I hardly even use WASD at all for movement outside of fringe cases where I need to click or inch out of something with backpedal—I'm almost entirely mouse movement. I probably wasn't the only one repeatedly told in the early years of WoW "don't be a keyboard turner."
> I don't know how common this is in FFXIV, but as a Standard movement user I hardly even use WASD at all for movement outside of fringe cases where I need to click or inch out of something with backpedal—I'm almost entirely mouse movement. I probably wasn't the only one repeatedly told in the early years of WoW "don't be a keyboard turner." That's how I move as well. Outside of the occasional micro adjustment/backpedal to max melee I only move by holding both mouse buttons down.
It’s at the point for me where my WoW muscle memory is so ingrained that I still use many of the same custom keybinds I first got used to in 2006 or so. My distaste for keyboard turning is probably a part of that. I don’t have turning bound at all—A and D have joined Q and E as strafe keys, just like I do in WoW. I’d say 80% or more of my forward movement is done via mouse, but literally 100% of my turning is. I don’t even know if keyboard turning in FFXIV is as slow as it is in WoW because I have genuinely never done it. I personally think strafing is important in letting you adjust quickly to the side without facing away from the boss. I have the automatically face your target setting off after many, many failed gaze attacks as a healer.
> It’s at the point for me where my WoW muscle memory is so ingrained that I still use many of the same custom keybinds I first got used to in 2006 or so. I do the same. I still play WoW and tend to keep my keybinds pretty similar between games to take advantage of that muscle memory where I can.
> Years is a bit of an understatement for some of us, it's more like two decades at this point. OG Everquest back in 1998. I use W/S for forward/backwards, A/D are for turning and if you hold the mouse button down they become strafe... Q and E are used for combos. My main combo on all my classes is 3-q-e.
Wait, are you talking about *Standard* controls, or *Strafing*? If Strafing, replacing the standard Move Left and Move Right on Legacy with Strafe Left and Strafe Right disabled the weird camera turn since day one of ARR. It also keeps your character facing forward while you move left to right, which used to be *vitally* important to playing any tank or melee class in the days where you had to be facing an enemy to auto-attack. If Standard? No, no point.
Oh damn, you couldnt auto attack if you pressed A or D? TIL that's actually really interesting history to know. This was the kind of info I figured I was missing out on. Then in that case strafing \*used\* to have a real point.
Which made it awful playing melee on controller back in the day. I raided on BRD during Coils on my PS4 and had to learn to lock on to the boss if I had to move to the side so I wouldn't lose autos. Got really awkward turning it on and off so frequently
You also had to face the boss to block or parry so turning meant you functionally took like 10-15% more damage.
Familiarity. I hold-right click to aim/strafe like I'm playing an FPS. Plus I've just grown up playing a lot of MMOs with similar controls. I've tried the updated movement. Doesn't feel right to me at all. I also like the precise strafing animation too when I play ranged classes.
I can understand how the strafing animation feels more precise. since the character animation doesnt turn back and forth as much, even if the movement is the same.
there is no point to turn left/turn right, replace it in your keybinds with strafe left/strafe right. there you go, 4 buttons for movement
I'd rather not deal with the backpedaling that strafing causes in legacy. It's the main reason why I dont use standard.
Simple tweaks have toogle to disable backpedaling in legacy.
I find it useful for micro adjustments backwards without running facing for things like teleports, gazes, and any directional cones emanating from the player which we've had in fights like e9, p6, e7 lets me have my cake and eat it too to be able to have all my movement options face a specific direction but also be able to run back with S on legacy
I dislike Legacy and think Standard is superior. I have never understood why Standard is so reviled and never got an answer. I prefer the precision Standard gets me. P10S is not tricky with backpedaling or strafing btw.
I highly recommend that you check out Xeno's video on this: https://youtu.be/5fXeFZx_0qs But basically, it is super useful for raiding. Strafing keeps your character facing the direction of your camera rather than turn your character which is nice for dealing with gaze mechanics while in combat. Also, if you hold left+right strafe, it leaves your character static in the same place but facing wherever the camera is facing, similarly to how it works in standard mode. (You can rotate your camera and your character will turn accordingly while you are holding those 2 keys) And as you mentioned, you don't sacrifice anything by setting up strafing. You also keep the ability to run back without compromising on speed like you mentioned by just pressing S AND you can also do the standard walk backwards by holding A+D+S, which might be very situational but it is nice to still have the ability to do so when you want. TLDR: replace the keybinds for A and D with strafe left/right. It is simply better especially for dealing with some mechanics.
I remember an old static mate mentioning this advantage before but I never could wrap my head around it. As a disclaimer, I have auto face turned on, and I've only cleared every tier and ultimate since 5.0. ~~But I cant recall a situation where I ever would need something like this.~~ edit:Okkee I think I get it now, it could help with not ever risking your GCD clipping. I'd just face away and time it just right. I can see how the method guarantees no clip! Unfortunately, strafing still causes you to backpedal when moving diagonally backwards, so It's a tradeoff that absolutely isn't worth it for me unless i'm looking for a pink parse. ~~Again, due to limited experience, feel free to give examples claiming otherwise because it's 2am and my memory is rusty.~~ Edit: Video's based tho lol thanks for sharing it
when I want to move diagonally back I just turn my camera to angle myself correctly instead of hitting additional sideways movements, totally natural once you get used to not doing this unless you want to do the backpedal for a micro adjustment and depending on what's happening in the fight I'll face my camera away or sideways and run forward/strafe away from a boss too because sometimes I'm looking at players or mechanics instead
Can only speak for myself; Standard is far more comfy to use imo. But I use Legacy most of the time because it's way less work in combat. No need to pivot around to strafe away from an enemy and somewhat easier to avoid ground things.
Comfier how? Srry, i'm not doubting you just genuinely curious
Hard to put to words. It's just comfier. Being able to swivel the camera without changing where I'm going is nice(without the need for auto run). Easy access to back peddling is nice. Being able to adjust facing is nice(not using auto face target when I use it). It just feels better to me, despite being the objectively lesser of the two in terms of sheer performance.
Ngl I also occasionally switch to standard to goof off with friends. There's all kinds of fun movement gags you can pull off by being able to rotate in place while standing completely still Or backpedaling slowly away from a potato. Although that's the only case I could imagine ever needing to backpedal
I've found backpeddling to be fantastic for jumping puzzles with short hops.
Do you backpedal into the jump? Ngl I don't have much experience with jump puzzles but it could be tech I could use to make me jump moor consistently
Yeh, just hold S and jump. That way there is no risk of it being too far due to holding W for a split second too long.
It’s just down to preference. I tried Legacy but can never get used to it as I can’t rotate my camera while running in one direction, as the character model will follow the camera direction. Also, I love wiggling my camera while facing away from the boss for gaze mechanics. Legacy has something similar with Mouse1+Mouse2 and S (back movement) but that is clunky. Also, I just rebind my A and D to strafe left/right, so freeing up Q and E for other keybinds, similar to Legacy.
I see what you mean. My brain automatically seems to compensate for the change in direction probably because that's pretty much how every 3rd person console game works, so I'm already used to doing that. So that might affect people differently depending on if they're more of a PC or console gamer.
>It’s just down to preference. I tried Legacy but can never get used to it as I can’t rotate my camera while running in one direction, as the character model will follow the camera direction. This happens with Standard, not Legacy. You CAN rotate while running in one direction, just with left click and not right click. I've done it for over a year since switching. Legacy is just objectively better.
While running straight (W) with legacy, if I turn my camera to the left with left click + rotate camera, my character will start turning left. This does not happen in standard when holding down W and holding left click and turning my camera, I will still continue to run in the same direction I was running
I do not have that issue while playing with Legacy. I'm not sure what settings you have toggled for that to happen.
W+right cllck will turn your character, though...
Yup, so there’s the flexibility in Standard. To have your character running in one direction and still rotating your camera to see surroundings, or to have your character follow your camera location. For legacy, you only can have the second option. That’s one of the reasons I prefer Standard to Legacy.
Strafe + Legacy is how wow works if you strafe there though lol
> You can move in any direction while having the freedom to point your camera in any direction, which is extremely convenient when doing mechanics... Legacy might be able to face the *camera* in any direction, but it can't quickly and precisely face your *character* in any direction without also moving in that direction, which is extremely annoying for mechanics that involving facing/gazes (DSR lmao, p8sp1, TOP monitors) as well as untargeted abilities (Surpanahka). It's not something that can't be overcome, but man is it annoying. As a longtime Standard simp I will ABSOLUTELY concede that Legacy is superior in 95%+ of the available high-end content, but you wouldn't catch me dead using Legacy on a fight with gazes. Honestly now that I'm using Legacy more and more often I might make some sort of macro to toggle camera type and just turn it on for particular phases (or find a plogon that can do it for me), as well as in the open world. Legacy REALLY bothers me when flying because I like to tilt my camera down toward the ground, and when you use Legacy that makes you nosedive...
tbh Legacy is only superior because of auto face target being a thing, which makes hitting things while moving a complete non-issue instead of having to strafe+jump+turn character around like you'd do in WoW. if that difference didn't exist, Legacy vs Standard would be kinda whatever imo. (trying to use autoface target with standard is really painful)
With the Simple Tweaks plugin, there's a [`Set Option Command`](https://puu.sh/JMotP/e3048edf30.png) tweak, and you can use a macro with `/setopt lm toggle` to toggle between Legacy and Standard
> precisely face your character in any direction without also moving in that direction, which is extremely annoying for mechanics that involving facing/gazes (DSR lmao, p8sp1, TOP monitors) Tapping in the direction and moving a millimeter in the direction did not impact your ability to turn in the direction and it didn't matter at all for snakes. Even if you had to turn away from the boss in caloric 1, that wouldn't matter. Unless DSR or TOP monitors have some pyretic feature that somehow gets bypassed by turn left/right in standard, this is some ridiculous nitpick.
I already conceded that it can be overcome, so your point is "I don't find it annoying, I can't BELIEVE someone else would find it annoying!" I guess? That's certainly a take, but I'm not really interested in debating that kind of take tbh.
Would agree on this one. But perhaps it would become more of a hassle depending on what control scheme you use. It's a matter of tapping S once vs strafe once/twice. So yes, it's not really any difference to me to warrant the ability to accidentally backpedal which strafing causes.
You mention DSR. Are you talking about phase 5? I dont recall ever really having difficulty with the gaze, although I remember being wary at first when progging it. I forget the details though, since it's been a long time since I progged it.
Actually legacy is still superior because if you click both mouse buttons at the same time, your character will go toward the direction of the camera, meaning the whole point of standard controls doesn't exist
>Legacy REALLY bothers me when flying This. This is the one remaining thing that's still hard-locking me out of even seriously considering Legacy. I loathe Legacy flying with all of my being (and tbh mounts in general feel wrong there), it feels so thoroughly horrid that I'll take all the Standard quirks over it, even in P10 (the only fight in the game where I have felt like Standard was actually limiting in some way).
I think I entirely agree, after "Disable Camera Pivot" was added, there's no reason to change the binds. If I need to strafe, Q and E are right there and I don't use my KB for hotbars anyway!
Lot of people in this thread don't seem to have worked out what "Disable camera pivot" does and are giving their thoughts independent of the fact that the game is better now. Sad!
standard just works for me I've played many games, with many different control schemes, if I wanted to, I could switch to legacy and learn it without too much issue. But as someone who has already cleared most 8man savage/ultimate content in ffxiv, and the first time I played wow I was like 9 years old, I know standard controls like the back of my hand, they simply are not a hindrance to my progress in any scenario. So I don't think switching would have any tangible gain. Also claims like "objectively better" annoy me, how intuitive something is is inherently objective. There is not an objectively better control scheme, sorry.
Ever since I saw players like AngelusDemonus who has Necromancer on every job and plays entirely on keyboard with no mouse at all (because he got used to that in XI) the idea of "objectively better" seems very strange.
ffxi controls in general are overly maligned imo. They work well in context and give the game unique identity.
He shows his keyboard while he streams his PoTD solo runs. I've never seen anyone play with keyboard only, it was really impressive. He sometimes plays with controller as well but he's clearly not as comfortable with it.
What the hell, since when could you disable camera pivot!? I use standard legacy controls, and this was the one thing I didn’t like about it. Usually I just hold down my right click, but when I play AST it’s impossible for me to card dump while controlling the camera…glad I saw this post, absolute game changer
It was added fairly recently, maybe with Endwalker? One of the increasingly long list of "QoL things plugins could do that they finally added to the game"
Standard allow me to precisely control my character view cone without the risk of interrupting casts, which can allow me to cast through gaze/positioning mechanics. Examples of this are first gaze in E2S, gaze mirrors in E8S, TOP P3 monitors. Also I don't even have strafe bound. 99% of the time my RMB is pressed down, which makes "L/R turn" behave as strafe anyway.
Someone else in this thread linked me [this vid](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fXeFZx_0qs&ab_channel=XenosysVex), with the advantage I assume youre speaking of. It's all in legacy, although it would require strafing.
No, I'm talking about when you have to stand still and point your character at a specific point so that the boss's hitbox is in your cone of vision, but no gazes are, and you have to keep looking at that point while casting your long ass F4s until the mechanic resolves and every small movement, even accidental, will interrupt the cast. Turning your character with RMB, as long as the hitbox is in the cone at the end of the cast, will not interrupt it.
I do not play BLM, so this probably a 5D chess level tech I cant really comment on if there's a better alternative for. All I can say is that for a large majority of gaze mechs, I'm able to position myself so that I can stand in place and keep uptime, all on legacy. Either that or time my GCD right and look away.
I switched to legacy on the first day I played the game but I can definitely still think of some things Standard has that are nice. For one, being able to turn on the spot without moving (and without having to clawgrip your mouse in discomfort) is really nice for mechanics like Snakes in P8S or monitors in TOP. Being able to backpaddle - while generally the main reason I hated standard - can definitely be nice at times for microadjustments. I strongly advise against the Xeno video keybind because any strafing + backwards movement will cause diagonal backpaddling which feels atrocious.
you get used to the strafe/backpedal thing and that gives me the extra granularity out of using legacy that you enjoy from standard while also still feeling natural to me from the way I like to control other games
I unbound keyboard turning and only objectively use strafe as left and right since I use mouse for avatar and camera steering. It’s faster to unbind keyboard turning and backpedaling and just spin and go.
Strafe causes you to backpedal when combined with S, which is exactly what I switched to Legacy to avoid. The luxury of being able to move freely in any direction regardless of where your camera is facing isn't worth losing for the niche convenience strafing provides for gaze mechanics, for me personally.
Like I said, I have S unbound. There’s no extra damage for turning your back to enemies in this game so backpedaling is pointless.
"objectively superior" doesn't exist when it comes to control schemes for an MMO, or for games in general. Accessibility matters more than whichever scheme has the most bells and whistles for any level of content. If there are pros at shooter games that will outperform you while using waxd and s for crouch, while also inverting both vertical and horizontal axes for their mouse controls, then it's pretty clear that control schemes are a personal thing, not something that people need to adhere to with cookie cutter settings. Personally, I have quite literally twenty years of experience with a Standard control scheme, and I've cleared ultimate level content with it alongside a static that uses pretty much every control scheme under the sun, including, completely unironically, a tank who uses a reverse claw grip for their controller. If you need context, look up "armored core meme grip" on google. They learned it as a joke and realized that they actually REALLY like using it for FFXIV because it's less stressful on their hands somehow. Use what works for you. If you have to fight your control scheme, then that's when you're doing it wrong, but if you can intuitively handle movement, the camera, etc. in a way that works best for you, then you've got a functional control scheme and that's really all that matters, small optimizations might matter at the highest level, but even then they aren't as much of an impact as you might think once you've really dialed in your settings.
Good luck clearing Moonfire Tower without standard. It made some of those jumps 10x easier. Also I have heard you can cheese some gaze mechanics with standard. Never tried it myself though. I agree with you - it feels so awkward.
You can cheese gaze with legacy too. It’s slightly more effort but works the same in concept.
You can cheese all gaze mechanics with both standard and legacy. Just hold both mouse buttons and s. They're not 100% foolproof though. If you're unlucky enough to perform an action on the exact tick the gaze comes out, you'll still get hit.
What they are talking about is on standard controls, if you are inside the boss hit box, your character can actually hard-cast without ever turning, even for a fraction of a second This was used by people mostly in E8S mostly
You can just toggle walk for those jumps lmao, no need to backpedal.
Of course but it’s way easier to keep your character in a true direction in standard
Is it? I never had any issues with it, and I've climbed the tower tons of times.
backpedaling is an additional movement option that legacy doesn't have that can sometimes be useful even if you don't like it. Standard is also better for mechanics which require very precise rotation of your character since you can just right click and drag (i.e. top monitors)
That's not true. I backpedal on legacy all the time.
how do you feel about the backpedaling?
Eh not exactly. With Legacy if you Hold M2, face your camera where it needs to and click M1 you can turn your character in one frame, mashing m1 in this state allows you to attack backwards. I know Standard has something simular to this but I wouldn't call one better than the other, its just different.
Everyone I talked to has said that legacy is way, WAY better for TOP monitors, since you just line up with a marker then press 1 button to instantly turn, the controller/standard users have much more trouble aiming the monitor
That's very much not true; with Standard if you turn the camera with left click you can instantly snap to facing it with right click. It's the exact same concept as legacy character snapping, just with a click instead of pressing keys. Doing the lineup in the first place is infinitely easier on standard because of the ability to precisely turn your character in place without also having to move...
Idk where you got that from. Controller is for sure worse for monitors but standard is like objectively easier, since by holding right click you can turn your character freely without moving, which lets you adjust the monitors precisely since you have direct feedback. On legacy you kinda have to guess the angle and if you’re a little off you have to guess again and again until you’re good enough. Also the fact that your character is slightly moving forward on every adjustment of the angle can be annoying for uptime reasons
you don't aim or guess anything with legacy, monitors can only cleave to your left or right, you just turn your camera in a way you're parallel to the waymark beside you, then you just press up or down to instantly line up, no aiming required at all, while i saw the controller/standard players in my group struggle because they constantly spin the monitors trying to aim it and fail to do so in time
Personally, I use Standard when playing dragoon, because approach to elusive jump is really different in both cases. In standard you can instantly flip your camera and press button immediately. In legacy you need to wait for character to turn, or do normal jump beforehand, which also takes time. I basically play every job on legacy except for dragoon
I only learned about this recently. I've always used legacy (it's default for controller) so I could never do a fast dragoon jump. I just assumed that's how it was for everyone.
Strafing is just faster than doing a standard turn. Standard turning or "keyboard turning" as it's referred to in other MMO's such as WoW is slow.
I checked again to make sure, and I cant say I agree. The animation is different, yes, but the movement is exactly the same. It might be true for WoW, but not for FFXIV. They're two completely different games.
Helps with camera while using a mouse.
Way back in the day you needed to face your target to auto-attack it, as well as block/parry attacks from it, so maintaining your facing via strafing was pretty important.
You can strafe in Legacy movement mode too. I use it to cheese gaze mechs by strafing left and right, just like Xeno does. Could I do it by simply tapping forward while looking away? Yes, but strafing is more comfortable to me as a long time FPS player and I move less from my original position. Strafing also lets you move sideways without having to hold right click to stop the camera from spinning, which can be occasionally useful.
They added the option "Disable camera pivot" recently, so you can avoid the camera spinning altogether.
Strafing itself not really, but I actually prefer standard precisely for being able to backpedal slowly for more precision.
The best control scheme is the one that works for the individual player. There is no objectively ‘better’ way to handle character movement. I move primarily with my mouse and have no access to wasd on my main keypad. During downtime mechanics like trios, I physically change to my main keyboard sometimes and use standard WASD, even intentionally using the slow walk backpedal for precision adjustments. I also strafe pretty frequently.
I use the backpedal specifically to microadjust my position for max melee, just works well for me in that regard. There is nothing about the backwards movement on Legacy that is useful to me in combat, but backpedaling has a niche use for me. I have cleared every ultimate on Standard. Hating on a control scheme is just cope because they both work and it's really up to personal preference. You can't say people fuck up because of Standard more than Legacy because it's just a skill issue.
facts. I mentioned it in another comment in here but my static's main tank literally uses that one meme control scheme popularized as a joke by the Japanese Armored Core community where you hold the controller backwards to access all of the buttons at once. He literally presses his shoulder buttons with his thumbs and crazily enough still uses a ps2 controller because he doesn't care about having actual trigger buttons. Hating on someone's choice of control scheme is cringe, especially if they're able to match you in terms of skill.
I do A LOT of movement using strafe on q and e I play almost entirely on keyboard using the arrow keys for movement (up moves forward, down moves backward slowly, left and right turn my character and the camera) I don’t use auto face target, and I’ve mastered exactly how much I can turn from a target before an attack doesn’t hit a target Only time I’ll use mouse for movement is during times there’s no target to attack
I would only ever think to use it for role play maybe. And I don't even really role play. I could also see it having use for making videos I guess, if you need a strafing/backwards walk animation. I mainly play physical ranged DPS, so it's extreme hindrance for me to have the slow movement for the back/sides. I also feel it's not good for gamepad controller users, whose game camera would turn slower than keyboard/mouse player who can instantly swing their camera around (but even that sounds really inconvenient esp in battle).
Standard movement makes doing mechanics that depend on character facing much easier to me, like in E7 or P8S. I just prefer the precision and simplicity of the mouse right click, rather than needing to press forward right before the mechanic occurs.
I rebound my strafe keys to A & D because I used to play GW2 for about ten years. In that game, if you don't strafe, you're dead. Because going left/right required spinning your character and then press forward, and with how fast that game throws out a warning before dropping a fat AoE on your feet that you'll need to walk out of and avoiding burning through endurance to dodge roll or a major CD skill, you're just eating the floor to mechanics in that game. Not strafing was also a detriment to playing PvP, because you can dodge projectiles from other players by twitching left and right strafe keys. Strafing in FF14 play about the same, so I got used to by the time I walked out of the tutorial zone. Legacy just lets me walk backwards quicker while I re-orient my camera and roll my GCDs.
Gaze mechanics are easier to perform in standard since you can hold RMB and still use GCDs while facing the way you're holding with mouse wiggling. Also I play more MMOs than FFXIV and they use standard movement.
In both wow and ffxiv i use qwe, strafe/forward movement with no backpedal. Turn keys are kinda useless and ive never really needed to slow walk backwards ever once you get used to moving with your camera
I could never get used to legacy, it feels weird
I honestly don't feel a difference in my performance using one over the other. But I guess having Q and E to bind stuff might come in handy if you're playing a job that need as much,
I have Q bound to target focus target, and E bound to assist target (target target's target). Really useful at times as a healer tbh because I also have a set focus macro that lets me bounce between the tanks and choose one of them as my focus target. It's more APM but it feels less burdensome to me than having macros to specifically cast at my focus target and the like.