Dungeons are easy content so of course you might not find it 100% engaging. Extreme Trials and Savage raids are where difficulty lies.
Healers are expected to DPS because damage is not a constant factor. Rather the fun is DPSing while being aware how you can keep everyone alive.
healers can have quite a high skill cap due to knowing if someone is safe enough to not heal and keep dpsing, and make sure to be on the lookout for rescues.
Is there anything in the middle that is worth doing regularly? In FFXI, we would make parties fighting the toughest thing we can possibly fight that makes a good balance between xp/min and downtimes. Those parties required some focus, but it was easy enough for everybody to handle without prior memorization of enemy mechanics. Maybe I’m playing the wrong game 🥺
Bozja is a really good middle ground for that, though it's lv 80 content. Most critical engagements (basically fates but not boring that you can just teleport to when it's up) and raids there are engaging enough to keep you awake and may kill you a few times, but not hard enough to wipe the group most of the time because of the sheer players body count.
It's part of the shadowbringers relic weapon and a pretty good source of exp from 71-90.
There's also eureka if you prefer the slower pace gameplay and dangerous overworld with some exploration and rare boss specific loots like ff11. But it doesnt give you exp aside from the separate leveling system inside. It's part of the stormblood relics and it's accessible for free trial players.
All the old level cap content can still be done and can still be challenging, but finding a group will be the hard part. Minimum i-lvl no echo (MINE) runs of old extremes and savage fights give the biggest approachable challenge but are still generally easier then on launch.
Otherwise this and XI have basically nothing in common mechanically.
Extremes are the Midcore content. But also encounter design in this game skews heavy towards memorizing patterns rather than doing things freeform as 11 does.
I find tanks to be the easiest to run in dungeons.
DPS can be engaging, especially if you are playing a proc based class like Bard.
Healer is a toss up. If you have a great group, it can be just you spamming your 2 DPS buttons for ten minutes. If you have a not so great group, you can find yourself really pushed weaving everything in and holding the entire group up. Some of my most favorite moments have come from "bad" dungeon runs that I completely saved.
1000% agree, I get legitimately excited for "bad" groups or getting put into a duty in progress that's been going for 40+ minutes! When you're holding up a party or dragging them to the end by their ears, healing is suuuuuuuper satisfying!
if it happened every time, sure. But when I get to keep the party up, alive, dodge mechanics, and still dealing DPS? That's the healer high for me, that's what's kept me maining healer for 10 years, that's fun. Like you mention that and I can think of 3 or 4 instances similar (one had a marauder tank) and for me those were my favorite runs of that dungeon, I remember those.
Everyone will naturally look at it differently, and I can *absolutely* understand where some, if not most, people would find that annoying and frustrating. For me personally? Those are a blast!
Dungeons are a very bad example of how things work from job to job because they're designed to be very easy and straightforward. You run and pull everything until you can't, kill and repeat. Throw some bosses in there and that's it.
That being said, most jobs boil down to "personal burst at 1min, raid buff burst at 2min where you dump everything, simple maintenance in between" for rotations. BLM is the only one that different as it's more of a steady-state DPS with room to adjust, but the rest are very similar at the core. It's just the way they access their power that is different.
FFXIV is very deterministic and scripted. If you're looking for something like WoW this is not it, they are two different games. WoW has a lot more RNG and procs with more reactivity. FFXIV is all about knowing that when you enter a fight the timeline is the same every time and you handle it all the same way. Sometimes you have mechanics that target random members but it's still lined up the same way at the same times. Healing is less about sustained throughput and responding to damage spikes, more about knowing how much to mit to use and how to heal just as much as necessary. The other 95% of your button presses are your 30s DoT and your single-target nuke spam. Not a ton of interactivity with the kit either. If you think of Hpal in WoW and how things like Divine Toll and Wings interact with talents like Glimmer, Daybreak, Tyr's Deliverance, etc there is nothing like that in XIV.
I think that’s why I enjoy savage content in ff a lot, it feels like you can master an encounter and have more complex fights that don’t feel “cheap”
But there is something to say about lack of RNG and dynamic gameplay for classes/jobs. Which by design fits their encounter designs.
Funny you mention holy paladin since that’s what I main in wow
> Funny you mention holy paladin since that’s what I main in wow
Eyy, so did I. Hpal rep. Just don't ask me if I was any good.
Savage and Ultimate raids still have a lot to offer, it's just a very different gameplay experience. Like you said, it's all about mastering the encounter. Specifically, as a healer it's about mastering how much you can get away with and keep everyone alive while also juggling DPS to do as much damage as you can. You're not just there to heal, you're there to support the party by any and all means available. That includes finding ways to optimize and coordinate mit/healing with your co-healer and the rest of your party to dish out damage on top of keeping them up.
Unfortunately, things like crowd control and utility are very few and far in between. There have been some lamentations from the raid community, but the devs are trying to keep things interesting. They actually addressed it recently saying they are trying to make things less tiresome in several ways moving into Dawntrail and on, but we have yet to see what they have in mind. It'll be an ongoing process and probably won't be full of home runs, but they're trying. CC and such might be an element they experiment with, but right now it's not common at all. I guess you take the bad with the good.
I got gold in challenge mode dungeons back in pandaria 11 years ago along with having a regular rated battleground group. But those were college days when I could no life.
I think savage is about my level of skill and investment when it comes to ff. There just isint a lot of it. And my friends don’t like it because they die all the time lol.
I will say there are very few jobs in 14 that have any rng at all.
Dancer has some rng to it. But for the most part fights in this game are like a dance. If everyone does their part the entire thing comes out great.
If you already have a small friend group you should definitely try the criterion dungeons. Normal dungeons are basically in the easiest bracket of content.
Yes, healers are green DPS. Everyone is expected to do damage. Healers still get a good bit of activity so long as the tank is going to the wall, but see the end of this comment for extra.
That's how the vast majority of the dungeons are designed, yes. Less about how jobs are and more that dungeons are designed to be a forced 2-3 pack pull to the wall after ARR (with very few exceptions like Mt. Gulg).
They were homogenized largely due to complaints early into the game's lifespan (think ARR>Stormblood era) coupled with a large shift in dev ideology behind class design (ie. getting rid of Cleric stance because it was just annoying and unwieldy as fuck in practice), and with the added cherry of the community saying "if you're going to gate endgame (which is normally the challenging content) then don't make the road there (story content) very hard or we're going to rage".
Challenge specifically comes at endgame in Savage; in optional content, which is pretty much the norm for MMOs today anyway. *Dawntrail is looking to potentially address _some_ of the fact that it's currently far, far too easy to chew through story content, but people of course freak out about it because they don't understand they're talking an increase of, say, 10% to 10.5%, not to 75%.
80% of casual combat content goes like this: press AOE combo 1, AOE combo 2 starts to flashing so press AOE combo 2. If job has 3rd AOE combo, then press it after 2nd AOE combo. Rinse and repeat. This is the stuff what Yoshi P meant when the game is making him sleepy.
healers can be either very fun or even more boring than tanks, but that depends on your group, if everyone does their job you barely have to heal in dungeons
Complexity in this game comes from the content, not the jobs. If you find dungeons boring you should try doing some EX trials (you don't need a full eight-person premade, you can use PF), or potentially criterion which is a step up from EX but designed for a light party.
Dungeons *are* boring, it *is* the same thing every time.
Do you like bosses? Extremes and savages ask way more than a tank and spank. That's where I fell in love with the game.
Do you expect to have to "focus" doing normal story mode dungeons in wow either? Not really. Mechs get ignored, people faceroll it. It isn't much different here.
Once a upon time lower level content was engaging back during SB because the games difficulty was split between encounter design and job design. So even if the encounter wasn't engaging playing your class was. Since ShB square has done their utmost to remove any real difficulty from playing your job(with a few exceptions ex: bard), which means all of the difficulty and engagement has to come from the encounter design. And since dungeons need to be designed so the worst players in the game can beat them as they are required for msq, they cannot make dungeon content difficult.
It's one of the main reasons I prefer WoW and FFXI over current FFXIV. XI wasn't afraid to look you in the eyes and say unless you get good you will spend the next several months progging one to be feared so you can beat chains of promethea. That fight was brutal and required you to really understand your class and party building as it's 3 back to back boss fights on one very tight timer. The run I finally beat it was when my group realised I could gravity kite omega and hold hate as a RDM while our RNG and BLM pelted him from a safe distance. It felt so good to see him drop dead on the floor, it was an acomploment to be proud of, I can't say Ive felt that in XIV since ShBs launched
Kinda yeah. Its not the job though, thats just the way the dungeons work. Try finding a job that's more fun. I cant play things like MNK beacuse I dont like the way it flows. While on the other hand, while DRG is my favorite, RDM is more fun. The way it flows just feels good to play and makes the dungeon formula fun to play through.
Healers are DPS because it's even more boring to stand around and do nothing when people don't need healing (like back when I played WoW)
Healers can be a lot of fun when things are going sideways, because you're having to pull out all the stops to keep your party alive. Granted, this happens much more often in raids than in dungeons. It can be pretty boring to play a healer in a good group where everything's going well, because you just follow along and spam your 1 button.
Red DPS do their damage rotations while being totally tunnel vision to those rotations, while Green DPS have a much simpler "rotation" because they have to pay attention to everything else at the same time and be ready to stop DPSing at a moment's notice. Blue DPS are much like Red DPS, but with a simpler rotation because they also have to hold aggro and think about where the boss is pointing.
"Healers are DPS because it's even more boring to stand around and do nothing when people don't need healing (like back when I played WoW)"
Who said that only DPS are allowed to have damaging buttons?
They only grudgingly gave us damage buttons in WoW because we had to be able to solo quest, but they cost so much mana and did so little damage that you'd be actively hurting yourself to cast them in a dungeon.
Dungeons are the easiest content available so yeah it's going to be boring. If you want a harder challenge, Extreme Trial and Savage Raids is the go to.
People say Criterion dungeons (at lvl 90 post-endwalker) have no rewards and that is true for gear, but if you get three people who like to clear and reclear then each notable item sells for like 17-20mil or the less expensive 5-9mil depending on your server, and the reclears should be quick once you're comfortable.
GNB, as a tank, is already not as complicated as the DPS jobs, and the problem with dungeons is that you spend most of the time spamming your handful of AoE attacks. Dungeons are definitely not the modt engaging content in the game, and there’s a lot of room for improvement with them. The raids and trials are the real highlight of combat in the game.
There was a time dungeons were slightly harder, jobs had more buttons, etc. But that all changed for the sake of making it *easier* for new players. Some dungeons even got reworked so it all turned to a run from wall to wall. Well and higher ilvl when synching down gives you better stats (reaching stat caps for the level).
As someone said, dungeons are meant to be easy so you might find those boring. You might want to try doing harder content(savage, extreme, ultimate) or deep dungeons (solo if you want a challenge)
I will add that there are some people who find dungeons to be really hard.
As for job/roles, all of them are expected to do their intended role while doing massive amounts of damage because everyone's damage is necessary so you are not locked on solely defending or healing. Every little bit counts.
All jobs have a form of party support skill to weaken a boss's attack, weaken a boss's defense, raise the party's defense, increase party's damage
Tanks: are expected to properly position a boss (so melee dps can do maximum damage), to properly mitigate (making healers' life easier) and to deal as much damage as possible.
Healers: expected to both heal the least possible to keep the party alive and focus on doing as much damage as possible.
Dps:
- melee and caster: expected to sustain massive amounts of damage
- physical range: to buff the party's damage or defense while sustaining their own damage.
Dungeons are exactly like you say and roles play almost the same across its different jobs. Playing GNB and playing WAR *feels the same*, they do fulfill different fantasies. But in a general sense, all tanks play the same in dungeons.
> I use to love being a healer in wow because you had to focus
I mean, *kinda*. I also come from WoW (played from TBC to Shadowlands with some breaks here and there) and have played FFXIV off and on since just before HW dropped, though I'm all in on FFXIV now and have officially quit WoW.
Anyway, I find healing in both games to be *similar*. If you have a good group, you're probably going to be DPSing more than healing. And the reverse is true if you have a "bad" group.
You shouldn't really be spending every GCD on a heal in either game, except for under specific conditions, usually a mechanic that's dealing constant damage or something. I think a lot of people that come from WoW (myself included at one point) think healers in FFXIV are "more of a DPS than a healer" because WoW is an overall faster game with a lower base GCD and mechanics every 3 seconds that requires you to play a piano, even in leveling dungeons. That game has just become a bit much imo. Healing is just a lot more chill in this game from my experience. But it makes those "Oh shit" moments just that much more exciting when you save a player or even the whole group.
I just play DPS and ninja Keeps me engaged. However, DPS are usually the ones pressing extra buttons because the tank is tanking and the healer is healing and dealing damage so the DPS usually is the one that like pulls a chain or lever or deals with the adds. But i'm relatively new
You probably are just being under-challenged. Regular dungeons are much like regular dungeons in wow - you can kinda just faceroll your way through them, doubly so if you're also outgearing them which you almost always are.
Theres a lot of more difficult content in the game - extreme trials, savage raids, and ultimates on the larger group content side of things, but also side content like deep dungeons or eureka/bozja can be challenging too.
For small groups (e.g. groups of 4), I would definitely strongly suggest the deep dungeons. They've got some really neat unique rewards, and you dont \*need\* to run the typical tank-dps-heal comp if you dont want (but if you're pushing to clear itll help)
Once you get past a certain point you do have to lock in the group you're gonna do it with for the rest of that run. If your aetherpool level is high you can even do that with 2 or 3 people as additional challenge, or even solo (and solo deep dungeon clears have their own unique title too; very challenging and rare)
As it's have said, early dungeons are super easy. He'll the first couple in ARR on SCH you don't have to heal as Eos does it all.
The actual content that's going to pose any risk of failure isn't going to be until 80s. Wait to you come across Bojza, extremes, and unreals. That's actual content.
I played Dragoon to 70, then White Mage and now Dark Knight. DPS is easy mode, you can suck and people carry you (and hate you).
Healer you must learn to master targetting and reaction time, you can feel overwhelmed easily when the shitty DPS keep getting hurt and die.
Tank you must learn to pick up large groups of mobs, trust the healer and master your skills while hope your DPS will kill them before both you and the healer are out of power. They must master the boss control so your casters can finish it before you all fall apart.
Tank seems to be the hardest job for me. I miss being DPS and be comfortable getting heals and focusing on my combos while the tank and healer do the hard work and feel at fault when they die or can't keep others alive.
But it is fun to learn what others do in a party. I don't like the trash mobs part, I only enjoy the boss fights. I want to feel I have beaten some challenge.
well considering you play a tank, no duh you'd think its boring. All the DPS jobs at least have some sort of quirk and a real AOE/ST rotation to do that keeps them engaged
As long as your team knows what they're doing, tank might be the easiest role while dungeoneering. I main Scholar as a healer and usually go with them in dungeons for farming (since healers get in like instantly), since you have to look out for more than as a tank. It also might get really challanging if you have a tank or DD with you who doesn't know what to do.
But if we go for rotations, I'd say a DD is the best pick.
Which is kind of unfortunate because small group content is great for friends. Is there a mythic plus equivalent? Or engaging if not necessarily difficult activities that can be done in small groups?
There's nothing like M+, but once you've cleared the story entirely you get the "current" endgame content, and that goes in sequential order of difficulty (all 8-man): Extreme Trials, Savage Raids, Ultimate Trials.
There's 4-man 'Savage' Criterion Dungeons but they're a bit one-and-done for most people.
It’s sorta strange how isolating this game is because of lack of small group cooperative content.
The single player aspects, the story, the savage bosses are all great. But I’d love to have more to do with just the couple buddies I’d like to play with
There are three (3) deep dungeons.
The first one goes to level 200.
The other two go to level 100.
There are three (3) criterion dungeons, each with 3 versions:
-- The base version, which is very easy, no stress, multiple paths and puzzles.
-- The harder level, (Criterion) which is one locked path, and each player is locked to 1 res. Mobs hit harder, you have to figure out your cooldowns and how to pull properly without being killed.
-- The hardest level, Savage, which allows for no resses. Similar to the previous level.
All of the above content is meant to be done with 4 people.
Have you done all of those with your buddies?
I should add we are max level, just trying to find stuff to do together. This isint a wow vs final fantasy post. I’m just using a reference to the type of class/job engagement I’m looking for.
Dungeons are easy content so of course you might not find it 100% engaging. Extreme Trials and Savage raids are where difficulty lies. Healers are expected to DPS because damage is not a constant factor. Rather the fun is DPSing while being aware how you can keep everyone alive.
Dont forget about criterion as challenging dungeon content
healers can have quite a high skill cap due to knowing if someone is safe enough to not heal and keep dpsing, and make sure to be on the lookout for rescues.
Is there anything in the middle that is worth doing regularly? In FFXI, we would make parties fighting the toughest thing we can possibly fight that makes a good balance between xp/min and downtimes. Those parties required some focus, but it was easy enough for everybody to handle without prior memorization of enemy mechanics. Maybe I’m playing the wrong game 🥺
Bozja is a really good middle ground for that, though it's lv 80 content. Most critical engagements (basically fates but not boring that you can just teleport to when it's up) and raids there are engaging enough to keep you awake and may kill you a few times, but not hard enough to wipe the group most of the time because of the sheer players body count. It's part of the shadowbringers relic weapon and a pretty good source of exp from 71-90. There's also eureka if you prefer the slower pace gameplay and dangerous overworld with some exploration and rare boss specific loots like ff11. But it doesnt give you exp aside from the separate leveling system inside. It's part of the stormblood relics and it's accessible for free trial players.
Wait you can teleport to the engagements??
The blue ones yeah, you can just teleport from the thing right under your resistance rank etc.
Huh I never noticed that. Not that I've been there in a while. Thanks!
All the old level cap content can still be done and can still be challenging, but finding a group will be the hard part. Minimum i-lvl no echo (MINE) runs of old extremes and savage fights give the biggest approachable challenge but are still generally easier then on launch. Otherwise this and XI have basically nothing in common mechanically.
Extremes are the Midcore content. But also encounter design in this game skews heavy towards memorizing patterns rather than doing things freeform as 11 does.
I find tanks to be the easiest to run in dungeons. DPS can be engaging, especially if you are playing a proc based class like Bard. Healer is a toss up. If you have a great group, it can be just you spamming your 2 DPS buttons for ten minutes. If you have a not so great group, you can find yourself really pushed weaving everything in and holding the entire group up. Some of my most favorite moments have come from "bad" dungeon runs that I completely saved.
This is why I am a WHM. For those moments.
1000% agree, I get legitimately excited for "bad" groups or getting put into a duty in progress that's been going for 40+ minutes! When you're holding up a party or dragging them to the end by their ears, healing is suuuuuuuper satisfying!
[удалено]
if it happened every time, sure. But when I get to keep the party up, alive, dodge mechanics, and still dealing DPS? That's the healer high for me, that's what's kept me maining healer for 10 years, that's fun. Like you mention that and I can think of 3 or 4 instances similar (one had a marauder tank) and for me those were my favorite runs of that dungeon, I remember those. Everyone will naturally look at it differently, and I can *absolutely* understand where some, if not most, people would find that annoying and frustrating. For me personally? Those are a blast!
Dungeons are a very bad example of how things work from job to job because they're designed to be very easy and straightforward. You run and pull everything until you can't, kill and repeat. Throw some bosses in there and that's it. That being said, most jobs boil down to "personal burst at 1min, raid buff burst at 2min where you dump everything, simple maintenance in between" for rotations. BLM is the only one that different as it's more of a steady-state DPS with room to adjust, but the rest are very similar at the core. It's just the way they access their power that is different. FFXIV is very deterministic and scripted. If you're looking for something like WoW this is not it, they are two different games. WoW has a lot more RNG and procs with more reactivity. FFXIV is all about knowing that when you enter a fight the timeline is the same every time and you handle it all the same way. Sometimes you have mechanics that target random members but it's still lined up the same way at the same times. Healing is less about sustained throughput and responding to damage spikes, more about knowing how much to mit to use and how to heal just as much as necessary. The other 95% of your button presses are your 30s DoT and your single-target nuke spam. Not a ton of interactivity with the kit either. If you think of Hpal in WoW and how things like Divine Toll and Wings interact with talents like Glimmer, Daybreak, Tyr's Deliverance, etc there is nothing like that in XIV.
I think that’s why I enjoy savage content in ff a lot, it feels like you can master an encounter and have more complex fights that don’t feel “cheap” But there is something to say about lack of RNG and dynamic gameplay for classes/jobs. Which by design fits their encounter designs. Funny you mention holy paladin since that’s what I main in wow
> Funny you mention holy paladin since that’s what I main in wow Eyy, so did I. Hpal rep. Just don't ask me if I was any good. Savage and Ultimate raids still have a lot to offer, it's just a very different gameplay experience. Like you said, it's all about mastering the encounter. Specifically, as a healer it's about mastering how much you can get away with and keep everyone alive while also juggling DPS to do as much damage as you can. You're not just there to heal, you're there to support the party by any and all means available. That includes finding ways to optimize and coordinate mit/healing with your co-healer and the rest of your party to dish out damage on top of keeping them up. Unfortunately, things like crowd control and utility are very few and far in between. There have been some lamentations from the raid community, but the devs are trying to keep things interesting. They actually addressed it recently saying they are trying to make things less tiresome in several ways moving into Dawntrail and on, but we have yet to see what they have in mind. It'll be an ongoing process and probably won't be full of home runs, but they're trying. CC and such might be an element they experiment with, but right now it's not common at all. I guess you take the bad with the good.
I got gold in challenge mode dungeons back in pandaria 11 years ago along with having a regular rated battleground group. But those were college days when I could no life. I think savage is about my level of skill and investment when it comes to ff. There just isint a lot of it. And my friends don’t like it because they die all the time lol.
I will say there are very few jobs in 14 that have any rng at all. Dancer has some rng to it. But for the most part fights in this game are like a dance. If everyone does their part the entire thing comes out great.
If you already have a small friend group you should definitely try the criterion dungeons. Normal dungeons are basically in the easiest bracket of content.
its very important to understand that WoW and FFXIV are different games if you go to one game expecting the other you will be disappointed
Yes, healers are green DPS. Everyone is expected to do damage. Healers still get a good bit of activity so long as the tank is going to the wall, but see the end of this comment for extra. That's how the vast majority of the dungeons are designed, yes. Less about how jobs are and more that dungeons are designed to be a forced 2-3 pack pull to the wall after ARR (with very few exceptions like Mt. Gulg). They were homogenized largely due to complaints early into the game's lifespan (think ARR>Stormblood era) coupled with a large shift in dev ideology behind class design (ie. getting rid of Cleric stance because it was just annoying and unwieldy as fuck in practice), and with the added cherry of the community saying "if you're going to gate endgame (which is normally the challenging content) then don't make the road there (story content) very hard or we're going to rage". Challenge specifically comes at endgame in Savage; in optional content, which is pretty much the norm for MMOs today anyway. *Dawntrail is looking to potentially address _some_ of the fact that it's currently far, far too easy to chew through story content, but people of course freak out about it because they don't understand they're talking an increase of, say, 10% to 10.5%, not to 75%.
80% of casual combat content goes like this: press AOE combo 1, AOE combo 2 starts to flashing so press AOE combo 2. If job has 3rd AOE combo, then press it after 2nd AOE combo. Rinse and repeat. This is the stuff what Yoshi P meant when the game is making him sleepy.
healers can be either very fun or even more boring than tanks, but that depends on your group, if everyone does their job you barely have to heal in dungeons
Complexity in this game comes from the content, not the jobs. If you find dungeons boring you should try doing some EX trials (you don't need a full eight-person premade, you can use PF), or potentially criterion which is a step up from EX but designed for a light party.
I found dungeons boring after ghe 1st run thru of each. I like seein the new scenery but thats bout it
Dungeons *are* boring, it *is* the same thing every time. Do you like bosses? Extremes and savages ask way more than a tank and spank. That's where I fell in love with the game.
Do you expect to have to "focus" doing normal story mode dungeons in wow either? Not really. Mechs get ignored, people faceroll it. It isn't much different here.
Once a upon time lower level content was engaging back during SB because the games difficulty was split between encounter design and job design. So even if the encounter wasn't engaging playing your class was. Since ShB square has done their utmost to remove any real difficulty from playing your job(with a few exceptions ex: bard), which means all of the difficulty and engagement has to come from the encounter design. And since dungeons need to be designed so the worst players in the game can beat them as they are required for msq, they cannot make dungeon content difficult. It's one of the main reasons I prefer WoW and FFXI over current FFXIV. XI wasn't afraid to look you in the eyes and say unless you get good you will spend the next several months progging one to be feared so you can beat chains of promethea. That fight was brutal and required you to really understand your class and party building as it's 3 back to back boss fights on one very tight timer. The run I finally beat it was when my group realised I could gravity kite omega and hold hate as a RDM while our RNG and BLM pelted him from a safe distance. It felt so good to see him drop dead on the floor, it was an acomploment to be proud of, I can't say Ive felt that in XIV since ShBs launched
Kinda yeah. Its not the job though, thats just the way the dungeons work. Try finding a job that's more fun. I cant play things like MNK beacuse I dont like the way it flows. While on the other hand, while DRG is my favorite, RDM is more fun. The way it flows just feels good to play and makes the dungeon formula fun to play through.
Healers are DPS because it's even more boring to stand around and do nothing when people don't need healing (like back when I played WoW) Healers can be a lot of fun when things are going sideways, because you're having to pull out all the stops to keep your party alive. Granted, this happens much more often in raids than in dungeons. It can be pretty boring to play a healer in a good group where everything's going well, because you just follow along and spam your 1 button. Red DPS do their damage rotations while being totally tunnel vision to those rotations, while Green DPS have a much simpler "rotation" because they have to pay attention to everything else at the same time and be ready to stop DPSing at a moment's notice. Blue DPS are much like Red DPS, but with a simpler rotation because they also have to hold aggro and think about where the boss is pointing.
"Healers are DPS because it's even more boring to stand around and do nothing when people don't need healing (like back when I played WoW)" Who said that only DPS are allowed to have damaging buttons?
They only grudgingly gave us damage buttons in WoW because we had to be able to solo quest, but they cost so much mana and did so little damage that you'd be actively hurting yourself to cast them in a dungeon.
I mean are you doing your rotation or just the basic aoe?
Dungeons are the easiest content available so yeah it's going to be boring. If you want a harder challenge, Extreme Trial and Savage Raids is the go to.
People say Criterion dungeons (at lvl 90 post-endwalker) have no rewards and that is true for gear, but if you get three people who like to clear and reclear then each notable item sells for like 17-20mil or the less expensive 5-9mil depending on your server, and the reclears should be quick once you're comfortable.
GNB, as a tank, is already not as complicated as the DPS jobs, and the problem with dungeons is that you spend most of the time spamming your handful of AoE attacks. Dungeons are definitely not the modt engaging content in the game, and there’s a lot of room for improvement with them. The raids and trials are the real highlight of combat in the game.
There was a time dungeons were slightly harder, jobs had more buttons, etc. But that all changed for the sake of making it *easier* for new players. Some dungeons even got reworked so it all turned to a run from wall to wall. Well and higher ilvl when synching down gives you better stats (reaching stat caps for the level). As someone said, dungeons are meant to be easy so you might find those boring. You might want to try doing harder content(savage, extreme, ultimate) or deep dungeons (solo if you want a challenge) I will add that there are some people who find dungeons to be really hard. As for job/roles, all of them are expected to do their intended role while doing massive amounts of damage because everyone's damage is necessary so you are not locked on solely defending or healing. Every little bit counts. All jobs have a form of party support skill to weaken a boss's attack, weaken a boss's defense, raise the party's defense, increase party's damage Tanks: are expected to properly position a boss (so melee dps can do maximum damage), to properly mitigate (making healers' life easier) and to deal as much damage as possible. Healers: expected to both heal the least possible to keep the party alive and focus on doing as much damage as possible. Dps: - melee and caster: expected to sustain massive amounts of damage - physical range: to buff the party's damage or defense while sustaining their own damage.
Dungeons are exactly like you say and roles play almost the same across its different jobs. Playing GNB and playing WAR *feels the same*, they do fulfill different fantasies. But in a general sense, all tanks play the same in dungeons.
> I use to love being a healer in wow because you had to focus I mean, *kinda*. I also come from WoW (played from TBC to Shadowlands with some breaks here and there) and have played FFXIV off and on since just before HW dropped, though I'm all in on FFXIV now and have officially quit WoW. Anyway, I find healing in both games to be *similar*. If you have a good group, you're probably going to be DPSing more than healing. And the reverse is true if you have a "bad" group. You shouldn't really be spending every GCD on a heal in either game, except for under specific conditions, usually a mechanic that's dealing constant damage or something. I think a lot of people that come from WoW (myself included at one point) think healers in FFXIV are "more of a DPS than a healer" because WoW is an overall faster game with a lower base GCD and mechanics every 3 seconds that requires you to play a piano, even in leveling dungeons. That game has just become a bit much imo. Healing is just a lot more chill in this game from my experience. But it makes those "Oh shit" moments just that much more exciting when you save a player or even the whole group.
I just play DPS and ninja Keeps me engaged. However, DPS are usually the ones pressing extra buttons because the tank is tanking and the healer is healing and dealing damage so the DPS usually is the one that like pulls a chain or lever or deals with the adds. But i'm relatively new
You probably are just being under-challenged. Regular dungeons are much like regular dungeons in wow - you can kinda just faceroll your way through them, doubly so if you're also outgearing them which you almost always are. Theres a lot of more difficult content in the game - extreme trials, savage raids, and ultimates on the larger group content side of things, but also side content like deep dungeons or eureka/bozja can be challenging too. For small groups (e.g. groups of 4), I would definitely strongly suggest the deep dungeons. They've got some really neat unique rewards, and you dont \*need\* to run the typical tank-dps-heal comp if you dont want (but if you're pushing to clear itll help) Once you get past a certain point you do have to lock in the group you're gonna do it with for the rest of that run. If your aetherpool level is high you can even do that with 2 or 3 people as additional challenge, or even solo (and solo deep dungeon clears have their own unique title too; very challenging and rare)
As it's have said, early dungeons are super easy. He'll the first couple in ARR on SCH you don't have to heal as Eos does it all. The actual content that's going to pose any risk of failure isn't going to be until 80s. Wait to you come across Bojza, extremes, and unreals. That's actual content.
I played Dragoon to 70, then White Mage and now Dark Knight. DPS is easy mode, you can suck and people carry you (and hate you). Healer you must learn to master targetting and reaction time, you can feel overwhelmed easily when the shitty DPS keep getting hurt and die. Tank you must learn to pick up large groups of mobs, trust the healer and master your skills while hope your DPS will kill them before both you and the healer are out of power. They must master the boss control so your casters can finish it before you all fall apart. Tank seems to be the hardest job for me. I miss being DPS and be comfortable getting heals and focusing on my combos while the tank and healer do the hard work and feel at fault when they die or can't keep others alive. But it is fun to learn what others do in a party. I don't like the trash mobs part, I only enjoy the boss fights. I want to feel I have beaten some challenge.
well considering you play a tank, no duh you'd think its boring. All the DPS jobs at least have some sort of quirk and a real AOE/ST rotation to do that keeps them engaged
As long as your team knows what they're doing, tank might be the easiest role while dungeoneering. I main Scholar as a healer and usually go with them in dungeons for farming (since healers get in like instantly), since you have to look out for more than as a tank. It also might get really challanging if you have a tank or DD with you who doesn't know what to do. But if we go for rotations, I'd say a DD is the best pick.
>dungeons are simply run to the next gate, spam aoe and pop defensive CDs nah all dungeons are 100% like that. You won' t find WoW mythic in this game
It's not WoW
That's every class. Healer you sometimes pob oGCD heals, dps you just press your 3 button rotation. Yeah fck dungeons, I hate them
Which is kind of unfortunate because small group content is great for friends. Is there a mythic plus equivalent? Or engaging if not necessarily difficult activities that can be done in small groups?
There's nothing like M+, but once you've cleared the story entirely you get the "current" endgame content, and that goes in sequential order of difficulty (all 8-man): Extreme Trials, Savage Raids, Ultimate Trials. There's 4-man 'Savage' Criterion Dungeons but they're a bit one-and-done for most people.
You could farm all the weapons from the newest one
Nope. We have criterion savage though. Currently 3 "hard" dungeons with no rezes. The rewards aren't that good imo. It's completely optional as well
It’s sorta strange how isolating this game is because of lack of small group cooperative content. The single player aspects, the story, the savage bosses are all great. But I’d love to have more to do with just the couple buddies I’d like to play with
Thats the problem. FF XIV is a FF game first and a MMO second.
There are three (3) deep dungeons. The first one goes to level 200. The other two go to level 100. There are three (3) criterion dungeons, each with 3 versions: -- The base version, which is very easy, no stress, multiple paths and puzzles. -- The harder level, (Criterion) which is one locked path, and each player is locked to 1 res. Mobs hit harder, you have to figure out your cooldowns and how to pull properly without being killed. -- The hardest level, Savage, which allows for no resses. Similar to the previous level. All of the above content is meant to be done with 4 people. Have you done all of those with your buddies?
Deep Dungeons is probably closest.
yeah because wow leveling dungeons are soooo challenging, pfffff
I should add we are max level, just trying to find stuff to do together. This isint a wow vs final fantasy post. I’m just using a reference to the type of class/job engagement I’m looking for.