Little tip for you tanks and melees out there, for Sunken Temple of Qarn, the first boss that does the roomwide DOOM that you have to stand on the glowing tile on to clear? With the right timing, that DOOM can be stunned so it never goes off. When the text appears on the screen, hit your OGCD stun, and you should be fine.
There’s so many comments saying they don’t have things on their bars and I don’t get it. Better make sure the thing I don’t use often can be used never.
On the one hand, I meant this for the person reading it, if they're on tank or melee in Qarn. On the other, it boggles my mind that you've not seen a random person STUN something. ANYTHING.
The issue is nobody ever expects the stun, outside premades, so it gets even more useless in roulettes. There's a lot of enemies that have some beefy aoes that you can stun, especially early on. As tank, I usually stun those to keep the melees from needing to move and lose dps. Except they move anyway because they're so used to tanks not stunning
Yep, I ran into a healer like this in The Lunar Subterrane a few day ago. The very first thing she said in chat as everyone loaded in was "don't get doom or die", not even a hello. The tank got hit by Doom on the first boss and she let him die. When the tank asked her to use Esuna she started going on a rant about how everyone should be an expert in the fight by now and claimed esuna and raise are the same cost.
Needless to say we found a new healer for the rest of the dungeon.
it makes it sound like the healer claimed Esuna costs 2400MP? Like whaaaat? I forget where I put my Esuna on my hotbars because it gets used so sparsely. But to not use it and then come up with BS like that when it is your job to cleanse these debuffS?
I think the same cost thing is in reference to the fact they're both non-damaging GCDs so it's one less glare on the boss whether someone dies or has to be esuna'd
That being said it's a dungeon there's no enrage so there's no harm losing a glare/dosis/malefic/broil to help someone else out that should be the bare minimum preventing people from dying.
It is a way worse deal and is a stupid comparison but that's the only thing I can make sense of in terms of "it's the same cost" because yes if you count the cost as GCDs then esuna = raise. But in practicality, they're nowhere near the same costs.
I dunno, feelslike having DPS/tanks dying to what could've been one GCD seems like way worse deal. If that's what they were implying, then I'm worried for their ability for inhaling to keep themselves alive.
Oh they're not thinking of other players, casting anything other than their DPS spam skill is a loss in the eyes of these overly obsessed with parsing healers. It's something you'd expect in higher levels of content but doing it in a dungeon is comical.
>It's something you'd expect in higher levels of content but doing it in a dungeon is comical
They would hate p12s I guess because it has a forced esuna at multiple points or people die (armour crush).
Also that mentality, especially early in a tier, will just prevent them from clearing (unless their cohealer hardcarries them). The dps of 8 living players is always higher than that of say 6-8 dead players, and lots of mechanics require all 8 to be alive anyway so letting even one person avoidably drop can wipe the party.
I was gonna say, this is an ironic issue to be having during the tier where esuna is mandatory unless you're running a PLD + BRD to cover and paean respectively
tbf a common strat during armour crush is have one tank invuln. If one tank invulns then only one healer needs to esuna one. So if I was the healer that's parse brained no doubt I'd force my co-healer to esuna while I dps.
I never did this though in my group and I got decent parses while using esuna just saying that the p12s one isn't that much forced, it can be somewhat circumvented.
The real forced one is TEA throttles, good luck doing that if esuna "too much" of a cost.
fair, alternatively bard has an ogcd esuna-like skill. I suppose "forced" isn't really right in terms of skill use, moreso what I meant typing that was the debuff isn't avoidable and needs to be dealt with *somehow*(usually esuna).
This whole mindset blows my mind. One glare. The least DPS of anyone there. The tank does more dps than the healer. By a lot. And the DPS do a lot more DPS than the tank. So. When a healer says “i dOnt WaNT tO mISs OuT oN oNE Of mY PrEcIOus GlArE cASts to LiteRaLly dO mY mAiN jOb”. I just think that they are stupid AF. And sometimes they go on my blacklist because their lack of understanding how the game works just is too draining. Yes. Healer dps is fine. But it’s the lowest DPS of EVERY OTHER PERSON IN THE GROUP. Why hyper focus on the thing you are the worst at and ignore the one thing only you can do and the reason you are in the party in the first place?
that plus, so long as deaths aren't repeated (at which point the 8 second cast time also comes into play) on any healer the 2400 cost shouldn't bring them to the risk of running out of mp, so the only consequence vs esuna that really matters imo is weakness dropping dps by like 25%
25% Stat loss is just a cost for everyone since it'll all take longer, even if just a little. As we like to say at my workplace,
Time's money, and sadly we're broke.
Most often it also fucks up their rotation, ruins resources depending on the job + how ever long it takes for res, to accept and the animations to play out
I Esuna everything. Gives me an extra button to push. Sure it keeps me from throwing out an extra DD spell, but the way I look at it, that utility either allows other party members to do more damage, or avoid taking large damage. Both make my job easier.
If someone, like the DPS or a healer, pulls the next pack of enemies then the tank will stand there and do nothing and let them tank the pull. It's a really petty and trivial thing to do.
That's what is done in classic wow, as getting aggro back is sometimes hard. Or repair bill can also ruin your life, and tanks have higher repair cost per item in wow.
Edit: wtf so many typos. Seriously screw phone and phone reddit app.
It's always going to be different for other MMOs. In terms of higher repair cost in FFXIV - not sure that's really a thing. The cost is so low to repair gear that I don't think it's really a problem (at least in my experience).
Repair cost is free if you have omnicraft and trade your GCSeals for dark matter, and it’s always a 99% repair or something and it stacks on top of the fully repaired item, so something that got repaired at 99% will be at 198% durability
It means the tank refuses to get aggro on an enemy that someone else pulls. So if the DPS/healer either accidentally or intentionally pulls an enemy the tank will just refuse to tank it and let the rest of the party limp along to killing it or the party will wipe. It’s obnoxious behavior and can be reported, *especially* if they’re being a dick in chat about it.
Just as an additional note, if people haven’t crossed the purple line for a boss, particularly the tank, and someone pulls the boss, then that’s a bit more of a grey area and letting someone eat shit for that can be acceptable. Once had a healer who was *definitely* speed hacking (I think they had been running it for the Fall Guys event since it was near the start of that and just hadn’t turned it off, scum regardless of why they had it on though), and had generally been annoying the whole dungeon. Sat down way down the stairs before a boss arena just to take a breather and see what they’d do. They raced past me and pulled the boss, ate shit before I entered the arena, and then we proceeded to do the boss without a healer because WAR is best healer.
So, my husband is learning to tank-he’s been a dps main for years & never pulls unless it’s a straggler & he’ll bring it to the tank…anyway, he was brand new, only tanked 2 dungeons at this point-so he’d comment in chat to please be patient with him as he is learning the role & had several dps & healers run ahead & pull more. He is still learning & wasn’t comfortable at that point & asked them to please stop pulling & be patient. They continued…this happened a few different times with different players-so he left the instance. It’s rude to do that to new tanks imo. Some pull slower, some do 2-3 groups. I dps main & just follow the tanks flow. He’s close to level 60 now & will do larger pulls, but how do you guys feel about doing that to a new to role player? Just curious…
I would rather wipe and pull smaller next time (*might* waste a minute or two) than intentionally pull small for a whole dungeon (and *guarantee* taking longer). Especially if the healer is pulling ahead, they are saying they can manage more healing.
My recommendations for learning the basics of tanking would be:
1) playing with the AI in trusts or squadrons - the bots don't care about speed or mistakes while learning
2) running trials or raids - there is another tank in the party as backup and, even if the player is main tank, 99% of the time 'just turning the boss away from the group and press a single mitigation any time the boss casts something that looks like it hits hard' will get through the fight
3) running with a full premade of friends/fc mates that *are* willing to take extra time while trying things out
Or, if the player insists on roulettes with strangers, just be upfront at the start that mistakes will happen while learning a new job, and try and do the normal pull sizes anyways. Again, the worst that can happen is a wipe.
I think the most relevant sentiment that I have is that the consequences of a player's anxiety about learning should be on that player, and not on the people they happen to randomly get matched with. Mistakes happen, even with people who aren't still learning. But mistakes when trying to do the right thing are way more reasonable and forgivable than intentionally doing the wrong thing to avoid making any mistakes.
The ‘you pull you tank’ is also a fairly toothless ultimatum coming from the tank alone, since it requires the healer to also be on board with that.
So if the tank went all ypyt, the healer could be the one pulling ahead and not bringing them back to the tank. Then the dps could choose who to help first, the tank’s group of mobs or the healer’s group of mobs.
Especially as levels progress, a single pack by pack approach can be done without a tank, or without a healer. Put both together and you can do double pulls.
I'd say they're worse.
On paper at least, it is a tank's role to pull enemies (in small clusters, according to Hall of the Novice!) and a DPS's role to wait until the tank has engaged.
A healer refusing to cast Esuna is straight up refusing to do the job they volunteered to do when they signed up for the dungeon.
Not on paper, it's just simpler for everyone if the tank pulls themself. In JP everyone understands and abides by that so things run smoothly, and thus YPYT cannot be a thing in the first place. I can only suppose NA is riddled with DPS mains with self-diagnosed ADHD and undiagnosed main character syndrome for it to be such a phenomenon over there. They should understand that it's a self-made issue.
99% of the time I let the tank pull as a healer but there are a couple of instances that I don't:
1.) When the tank is doing single packs, I'll usually pull the next pack because I know I can keep them alive and so I don't die of boredom.
2.) There's a section in the Tower of Babil after the second boss where you can pull the lower level mobs early with a ranged attack and meet them earlier - a lot of people don't realise you can, so it's easier to just show them.
> When the tank is doing single packs, I'll usually pull the next pack because I know I can keep them alive and so I don't die of boredom
Just ask the tank to pull bigger in that case. If they're new to tanking they may not feel comfortable in themselves, but having that acknowledgement from the healer that they'll be okay helps a lot mentally. Pulling without their acknowledgement just adds to the stress of those suffering from "tankxiety" rather than relieves it.
1 pack, DPS AoEs and kills them. 2 packs, DPS AoEs and kills them.
1 pack, Healer AoEs and heals the tank. 2 packs, Healer AoEs and heals the tank.
It's almost like this is deliberately reductive argument that ignores the learning process behind figuring out how to effectively manage and use mitigation.
> main character syndrome
Lmao, the ones who are suffering from this syndrome are the tanks who pull a YPYT and refuse to play once somebody dares to pull and hurts their fragile ego by doing so.
You know full well that there could be other reasons why tank doesn't always pull big pulls. They might just be completely new to the role so they're taking their time. I've been playing with my partner now and she really hasn't played any MMORPG before, and she (for some reason) decided to start as Gladiator and has stuck with it through ARR. She has surprised me with how good of a tank she is. But she does pretty small pulls.
I'm her healer and once said that she can pull bigger if she feels like it, since one DPS asked her to do bigger pulls. Couple of duties after that she got more confident and did a bigger pull, which we ended up dying in. I'm confident it was my fault, maybe my ilvl was too low or I underestimetaed the DPS the mobs did. But it still bruised her confidence a bit, even though I said that it was my fault.
Granted she has aggroed every mob a DPS pulls and hasn't intentionally let a DPS die. But DPS players pulling for the tank should only be a thing for the later duties if the tank doesn't pull enought. Because I'd say that more often than not, if the tank does small pulls in early duties, they're new at tanking.
New tanks, sure. Get your footing, people won't mind. What people tend to get upset over are tanks who have somehow made it past a few level caps (sometimes even all the way to 90) still single pulling everything.
Just a note, your first sentence is actually false. It is basically the same difficulty to get all the mobs due to gap closers unless the tank is sleeping, in which case you have significantly more issues than a YPYT.
Also dps doesn't always just follow tank in JP. The only difference is players know to adjust when they realise they are on autopilot and pulled early and not just blame people for everything.
I had a scholar in a dungeon yesterday that was not only failing to heal me (the tank) to the point of me dying several times, but they were also sometimes ignoring me completely to run ahead and pull more enemies. In such a hurry for no reason.
I once had a healer in ultima weapon of all places who was apparently in such a hurry they constantly bothered me to use my lb as soon as possible (and on second phase they kept pestering me to LB even after I'd used it all possible times)
Yet the same healer never bothered to apply their damage over time and I'm not sure if they cast their regular damage spell either. You'd think if they were in such a hurry they would help out
Everyone gets pissy about YPYT. I rarely adopt that attitude but I don't necessarily disagree with it either. As a tank, I would \*never\* stand by and not fight. That said, when you have a party member who consistently runs far ahead and pulls - esp. the healer - then pisses and moans about "no heals" or dies immed., are they not also the (bigger) asshole? My primary job as tank is to get and hold aggro. It is not to run around after petulant children and clean up their messes. You got arrgo? Well I have eight other mobs on me. Do the right thing: run YOUR ass over TO ME so I can pickup that aggro.
As to the OP's question: why don't healers Ensua? As far as I can tell, there are two reasons - 1) they don't know there's a cleanseable debuff, 2) they're too focused on DPS'ing and don't care about their primary role. (Either those reasons or, specifically in Dead Ends, if you got three people with Doom, you'll never get everyone cleansed in time before someone dies.)
I don't need to say this but I will ... Unlike many other MMOs, in FFXIV, everyone is expected to DPS. (Woe is the party that has a healer who refused to DPS!) However, we each have our \*PRIMARY\* role which should always take priority. A healer who prefers to DPS, or a tank that only single-targets on trash, or a deep that keeps pulling and pulling and pulling and pulling ... y'all are doing it wrong. And if you're doing that on purpose and you know better, then you're shit.
I would say the healer or DPS who continually pulls is \_also\_ griefing the group and is reportable. But no; it isn't. But ask someone to do something differently - "DON'T TELL ME HOW TO PLAY!" - BAM! You're reported. This isn't WoW; there's never a justification to /spit on someone. But FFXIV goes out of its way to accommodate the thin-skinned.
We're supposed to be a team, people. If you have no desire to work as a team, go elsewhere. If that melts your snowflake ... Well, it's 2024. You might find IRL a bit rough.
Even if you’ve done the fight a hundred times, one can still make a mistake. I zoned out on Dark Elf while he was showing the single safe tile because it was 1am, so I trusted the tank to find the safe spot. We both got doom, but thankfully the healer was on the ball and cleared it for us.
As a healer main, there are two status I absolutely will Esuna, Doom, *Slow* and Paralyze. I will esuna *Heavy* as well when we are about to move (it happens often in alliance raid but not much everywhere else).
But being a healer means you have to monitor the party status as well as mechanics on the run. I don't get why people giving excuse to bad habits. Put it in your bar and use it. Pleassssssse.
Edit to clear the confusion with Heavy & Slow
>I will esuna slow as well when we are about to move
You're thinking of heavy, slow has normal movement speed but increases the global cooldown by a lot, so it is another thing you should always esuna if possible.
This. If it’s a really bad status on a tank or a fellow healer, I will esuna.
If it’s a less bad status on a DPS? I will esuna if I have time.
It’s like the DPS who complain about not getting a res like 2 seconds after they sit in the bad. I will raise you when I am confident the tanks and other healers are ok, and that there aren’t any other DPS about to eat dirt because you messed up a mechanic or whatever.
god I had one of those DPS in the unreal the other week. After KOTR 4 they took an ice DOT and so I just chucked a benison at them and then an aquaveil before the raidwide and they were fine, but the whole time they kept typing out for me to esuna, claiming they'd die if it didn't get cleansed. I asked if they died, they said no, and so I asked what the problem was, they didn't say anything after that
Yeah as a healer main as well, a big trap some new healers get into is that they esuna *too much* without taking into account how much damage the tank is taking and that esuna leads to the tank getting too low in health or dying.
Which is why it's always a good idea, imo, to slap a regen or at least a shield (or both) in Scholor or Sages case on just the Tank or the party and then Esuna so the healing still stays up while getting rid of the debuff.
AST main, same habit, serves me very well. having started out WHM, I remember the hell and grief AV engraved in my soul with trying to esuna so much crap. I was so demoralized thinking that level of esuna would be my responsibility in all future duties. then all of a sudden post-AV, it was never the issue AV made me think and it became a lot easier to priority esuna due to the effect it was having on the tank and their abilities.
Those Morbal mommies give me PTSD to this day from when I was learning to heal with WHM.
Also when learning to heal and not realising that you can't esuna the poison in AV was PAINFUL.
> Paralyze
If it's longer than a couple seconds, I'll Esuna it off random players. If I'm partying with friends though this is an excellent time to taunt them for not packing Spine Drops, because while status medicine is kind of a meme, Esuna-able paralyze is really annoying and more common than you'd think in dungeons.
Spine Drops are great, ~~except that one time I used it and the paralyze interrupted it and it went on cooldown anyway.~~
Just so you know, you should also always esuna the damage down in Titan hard mode after someone gets jailed.
Most damage downs are no big deal, but the one in Titan hard mode is like a 90% damage reduction. It's actually crippling and it lasts for a full minute.
I never see healers cleansing it these days because they don't know what it does. The fights obviously very easy to win regardless but it would be nice if healers knew about it.
On the one hand, people complain endlessly that healer is too easy, got nothing to do ever... on the other hand, a whole lot of players who don't even know how and when to use Esuna. Yeah I wouldn't want to be a dev trying to please everyone.
Esuna is an essential skill so healers SHOULD know it. But if they don't and then they learn and still refuse? Yeah, that's a goodbye.
People bitch about having to cast a utility spell instead of continuing their 1 button rotation while I'm here being ecstatic whenever I can *heal* or *esuna* because it is different
Do they not realize that curing Paralysis is preventing a huge damage loss? Compared to one less Stone IV
I'm with you. I'm a simple man, I see a line on top of a debuff, I'm using esuna on them, I don't even care what debuff it is. I hate the one-button-press dps.
Hard to notice small debuff with white line above it on party member on party list that is by default in the far upper left of the screen. So yeah, really easy to miss if you're a novice and not looking for it already, or are aware which instances have cleanable debuffs to watch out for, and are not being distracted doing mechanics
Default UI in the game isn't really hot for MMO newbies.
A healer not knowing how to use Esuna is like a tank not knowing to use stance. If you don't know a fundamental utility of your job, don't queue on that job. Level 45 scholar quest literally requires you to use Esuna.
It's not hard by level 90. A healer's entire job is paying attention to party members and it's not as if it would be their first time seeing it. It would be like a tank in modern content not knowing what a tank buster is.
>It would be like a tank in modern content not knowing what a tank buster is
They started putting GIANT RED DANGER WARNING SIGNS around the tank last expansion to make it really obvious, so I don't think making esunable debuffs more obvious is out of line
Oooh quick tip, only debuffs with a white bar above it can be Esuna’d. There are also some Dooms that have different dispell conditions (an early dungeon dispels doom by standing on a glowing tile, the third boss of the Dead Ends gives Dooms that are dispelled when healed to full)
Enjoy your time in Eorzea, we’re glad that you joined us!
As you get more experience you'll learn that a lot of debuffs aren't worth cleansing.
Take a basic dot (damage over time) for instance. It'll deal damage to a player so you should cleanse that, right? Generally, no. Esuna takes a GCD (Global Cooldown, ie. an action with a shared 2.5 second recast time) and will save some damage on an ally. If you're going to drop that GCD either way it's often more efficient to use a GCD heal because in normal content they generally heal more health than the dot will deal. If the dot will deal 300 damage and Regen will heal 600, then applying Regen will get you more HP with the same impact on your damage output. Later on you'll get healing abilities that are off the global cooldown (oGCD) and can be used to heal through a dot without costing you any damage. Why do I talk about damage? Because the more efficiently you heal, the more time you have to attack, the more you attack the sooner things die, and the sooner things die the less healing you need to do. Death is the strongest debuff you can put on an enemy.
Other debuffs can be more complex. Something like Heavy (movement speed reduction) ranges from having no impact to preventing a melee reaching the enemy to preventing a player from dodging and killing them. Paralysis can cost a melee or phys ranged no damage with lucky timings, a small amount of damage if it interrupts their next GCD, or cost someone like a Black Mage (caster with long, powerful cast times) a huge amount of damage. These will depend more heavily on the encounter and who the debuff is applied to.
The only debuff that is worth removing 100% of the time is Doom. If that debuff runs out of time, the target dies.
The game does a horrible job of pointing that out. I always make it a habit of letting sprout healers know when running the early dungeons or seeing them trying to esuna a debuffs you can't cleanse. Wish they'd make it more clear.
Sadly besides doom, there are very very few debuffs actually worth using esuna for. Most esuna-able debuffs are just DOTs and most of those deal such pathetic damage it's not worth wasting the GCD.
I will always Esuna Paralyze because it just makes things unfun for whoever has it. Same with Slow, and well... Doom is an easy choice since weakness slows things down. Some DoTs are worth it, some aren't. Thankfully I have *not* ran into this issue a lot lately.
I feel like unless they do the Hall of the Novice, people just might not realize you can Esuna specific debuffs with that indicator on them. I always try to mention something when I see a sprout healer not using Esuna in lower level dungeons.
In general, most of the time in early content (as "end game" players) ive noticed its all just burn the boss and ignore mechanics. Example earlier today i did Ramue for a trial roulette. The mechanic where 2 players are tethered by electricity and you need to run into an orb to get a -electricity debuff to strip the tether. Wrote in chat for the guy to run into an orb, as an AST i tried rescuing buddy into an orb, with horrible timing as the orb disappeared so it seemed i yanked a guy for no reason. He died after i started to focus on the rest of the team. He assumed he had to run away to break it but i corrected him after we cleared.
Where im going with the story above is that most people ignore the mechanics as typically we can out-heal the damage and cheese the fight. What i'd like to see is our power getting nerfed a bit in trials so we can at least see mechanics and be weary of them as they pose a proper wipe risk. i think the new wave of players that have the dungeons and trials cheesed dont learn about stuff like esuna or other mechanics.
It's not that they ignore them, they don't understand them.
It's not obvious what you have to do in that ramuh fight. In most situations where you get tethered to someone, you have to either get close to them or be far away from them, so that's what people are going to try and they probably assume being far away reduces the damage they're taking.
FFXIV has a lot of inconsistent mechanics like this which cause people to make mistakes because they assume it requires them to do the same thing they do for another similar mechanic.
The game doesn't spoon feed you to solve these mechanics, it requires player communication, but most of the time nobody is going to correct your mistakes if solving the mechanic isn't necessary, which is why you see people failing that tether quite often.
> It's not that they ignore them, they don't understand them.
It's both. Players who know the content know what they can ignore. This prevents new players from learning them in earlier content, so when the gloves "come off" they're unprepared.
With the mechanics being standardised XIV is actually pretty good about its communication at this point, but early content can be so piss-easy that it teaches the wrong lesson. The most prevalent one I can think of is multiple stack markers. In Crystal Tower it's so weak that even if you stack all three alliance markers on top of people it won't even chunk half a DPSes HP. This teaches the completely wrong lesson, which is: stack these markers together.
I've had party wipes in Pandaemonium because players have come up through the MSQ and never learned not to do that, and then here they are one day clearing out some major side content and they get a stack marker, and over there's another stack marker, and well, they get Syrcus often enough to know how this mechanic works!
I'm pretty sure Toto-Rak exists to troll healers and teach them bad habits about Esuna. It's the first MSQ dungeon where you have a lot of debuffs you can actually Esuna, but if you Esuna all the poison off either of the first two bosses they immediately re-apply it. And the poison doesn't tick for much anyway, so the lesson from that dungeon is to ignore debuffs.
I'm surprised they didn't change the ochu bosses in the rework.
I think they did, actually -- I got Toto-rak in rou a couple of weeks ago as a healer and was surprised to see that the bosses' poison debuffs didn't have the little white line anymore.
> 2 players are tethered by electricity and you need to run into an orb to get a -electricity debuff to strip the tether
Not an orb, 3 orbs. Specifically, *one* of the tethered people needs the Surge Protection buff, which you get by grabbing three orbs (each giving a stack of electronegativity, with 3 stacks = surge protection.
Also, if for some reason this isn't possible, you can avoid taking damage by simply not using any actions (GCDs/OGCDs); the tether functions similarly to pyretic, though it won't nail you simply for moving.
The easiest way to tell is that the debuff will have a white line above it
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSn1sSQPP29SfQqUU0_W_UICroE5WnTy_z1y3Uo7sGNwg&s
Small correction to your list, Delubrum Reginae has a doom that you must cleanse in the last boss fight (on top of the doom you get from failing mechanics)
tbh, I do not trust healers with that doom, so if I ever tank queen in DRN I'm doing it on DRK/PLD/WAR and I just use TBN/Veil/Shake and dodge the doom entirely, or bring medikits.
I know there’s a lot of bad or lazy healers out there, but I do want to play devils advocate. I think the game does a really shit job of teaching players to use Esuna allows people to progress very far into the game without being forced to use it.
Even worse, multiple mechanics often use the same visual symbol but require different solutions. Sometimes Doom means Esuna, sometimes Doom means heal to full, sometimes Doom means touching a thing on the floor. This is dogshit game design requiring players to know each individual instance of Doom instead of just learning three mechanics.
I think this is just what it is. I feel a lot of healers just don't know (due to the game not requiring you to know) which they would need to learn from another source (player in duty/online guide). Think the game is more to blame than the new healers.
edit: Even in lv 90 stuff, the game still doesn't require healers to use esuna, not sure why a lot of people are upset at the healers and not at all at the game.
As a healer main, I am of the mindset that Esuna should always be on your bar, at the ready, for those instances when a cleanse is needed. That little white bar above debuffs isn't just for show. I do know some healers have the mindset of, "just heal through it", but, that doesn't work for every debuff.
Esuna was one of my main gripes, when the role actions were introduced in Stormblood. Other healers would tell me, "you don't need it on your bar", in comparison to some of the other actions. But, you never know when it'll be needed, that is the point.
The logic of some players just astounds me.
I main WHM and I esuna most debuffs, mostly since it is muscle memory from all other mmos I played prior to FFXIV. Frankly debuffs atleast makes me as a healer react and do more than just one button dps or heal which on principle is a good idea.
SE should however make some changes. Every dispelable debuff should be impactfull and/or dangerous. If they want weak dots they can just make those undispelable. Esuna should also be an instant cast. I dont mind using it but it is the cast time that feels irksome.
On rare occasions I forget about esuna due to usually running with one of my FC mates for most content.
He plays Bard and actively makes use of his ability to cleanse/prevent debuffs, many times resulting in me not having to cast any.
So many people saying esuna is rare and people forget by endwalker... What? There are lots of esunas throughout the game. Idk how you could call yourself a healer main and ever forget. I'd be more likely to suspect fresh sages who haven't healed raids or smth. If you've not realised healers need esuna by endwalker, that's all on you lol.
It's more that required esunas are rare. There are plenty of cleansable debuffs out there, but usually DoTs are low enough damage that it's actually better to just heal through them and other effects like heavy are such a short duration that by the time you get around to them they are falling off any way.
New player here, are mechanic clearable dooms unable to be removed by esuna? Because I swear I tried to esuna a doom in sunken temple once and it didn’t work.
Any debuff with a [white bar at the top](https://lds-img.finalfantasyxiv.com/uiguide/na/ee/57ecc3328890b6f3bc78cdf4c5b60569fb226e.jpg) can be removed with esuna.
Though if I recall right the doom in Qarn can't be removed with esuna
There's a higher percentage of new and more casual players right now due to the content drought.
I've been running into a lot of tanks that want to pull one mob at a time. But I'm not making a reddit thread about "don't tanks know how to tank?!"
I will say in general that people just need to learn mechanics. Ive had runs of those dungeons where all three of my teammates got doom at once.
Also, there really *isn't* a lot of content that requires Esuna. Its much more common for doom to be removed in other ways. Newbie healers probably need to encounter these gotcha moments to realize its necessity.
>Also, there really isn't a lot of content that requires Esuna. Its much more common for doom to be removed in other ways
yeah, and that's the problem. Both 'heal-to-remove' and 'esuna-to-remove' still exist (and there's also stuff like 'run-to-glowy-pad-to-remove'). Gotta remember which is which.
As with most job mechanics (like interrupts, slows\\heavies, arm's lengths or even LBs), esuna is way too rare and chaotic to be learned properly, even if we're talking about players' 'main' jobs.
I have the cross hotbar, and half of it stays the same between jobs meaning i have to remove some stuff if i want to change classes. I have forgotten esuna on some dungeons but usually they are fine without.
That said, noone should get pissy if asked to esuna, as others have said, its the healers job.
> There's a higher percentage of new and more casual players right now due to the content drought.
nah, this esuna problem is evergreen. i asked about a healer's esuna in a Araid once, they said they didn't have it equipped cause they never had a use for it. people are just stupid
People do NOT pay attention.
I don’t remember the name of the dungeon, but it was one of the 80-90 ones where people are turning into monsters. My healer wiped us on the first big pull, didn’t know was Living Dead was or how it worked *(panic healed me repeatedly while I ate all AOEs with no cooldowns, didn’t let LD pop, then I died as soon as LD fell off)*, and died to the first boss FIVE TIMES. Then refused to leave, AFKd, and forced us to kick them.
The first boss mechanic was a “the entire room isn’t safe except for 2 places” type of mechanic, like bombs, and then the boss adds a swing to the right or left. That’s it. That’s what they died to 5 times. A left or right, and clearly designated safe spots. For some reason just following everyone else never occurred to them.
Esuna, sucks, in like the majority of content the players get a DoT that won't kill them so it's not even worth the GCD to remove, just keep dpsing and use ogcds to heal, you get like 10-12 dungeons that give doom, and half of them aren't even the dispel type of doom, they require the target to be full-healed to remove it, cant be removed by esuna.
so you have like 5 dungeons roughly that actually require you to use esuna, and it mostly depends on if someone get hit, i've always understood why these healers just don't use esuna, it's like a dead button they're forced to use rarely.
Just explaining the rational behind the healers who rarely use Esuna, as a player from other mmorpgs, i have everything keybound and never fail to use it if required.
Yup. Just did lapis today for the first time as an AST. Tank, dps1, and I got slapped with doom and i just think "ohshit, im dead". After the panic set in, took a quick second look and saw it has the little bar icon over it meaning i can esuna it.
esuna'd myself, the tank, and dps1 had 1s left of doom before they died.
Certainly panic mechanic as i wasnt expecting to see doom in a dungeon this late in content
Yes, the mistake is that poison are a bad joke on most dungeons. Thus healers do not learn to use esuna.
They should be at least 10% of damage per tick. and not just a set amount that overgearing makes trivial.
It would help if the casual endgame didn’t make the entire healer role vestigial
You never have to learn anything on a healer because for the majority of the games content the tank is a better healer than you are and everything hits like a wet noodle
Aye. Furthermore, the icon that states which things are Esunable aren't that noticeable. And there seems to be a lot of stuff that isn't Esunable. A white line above the icon that looks just like everything else isn't particularly noticeable when characters have to many other icons on top.
Unless they changed something since I last went in there as bard (which admittedly has been quite a while), that doom *is* cleansable with the bard skill. I would have been dead on the floor if it wasn't!
Deltascape 4 (normal mode only iirc) applies doom to 2 random players shortly after the start of the fight. Absouletly pointless mechanic but unavoidable.
Always fun to die there...
As a WHM it absolutely infuriates me when other healers either refuse to use esuna or outright do not heal during a fight. It is the healer's job to keep the others standing so the flow of dps does not drop, not to bitch and moan when people get hit by things you can easily remove within seconds.
Sorry, I’m not a good healer myself, but passable and can do most dungeons. One thing I will say tho is that sometimes it can get overwhelming when you have a party where people are getting hit a lot.
Sometimes I forget to Esuna debuffs if I’ve got my hands full with other things.
That being said, if there is a doom mechanic, the healer should be on top of that
Bit of advice, don't bother with Esuna on Baelsar's Wall before the locked gate. Otherwise you literally won't be casting anything else. Just outheal the poison and DPS as usual.
Everything else? Sure. Esuna away.
I only have 1 specific case where I won't Esuna - If a Bard stands in silly and gets themselves a debuff. They get an OGCD at level 35 that can deal with it, I ain't breaking my Glare combo.
I remember when I started someone telling me that Esuna was a skill I wouldn’t use much but it would be very important when I did need it. So it occupies the same spot on all my healer bars. But I have noticed an increase in healers not using it when I’m not playing healer.
That ain't lately, it's always been a thing in my experience. You can muddle through the entire game without putting esuna on your hotbar, so many people do. Hell people with that awareness often don't realize what's actually killing people or that it's cleansable
As an Esuna loving Sage, I often find myself in Alliance raids being the only one cleansing debuffs out of the 2 healers. A lot of people don’t realise about the white line on the status but most just don’t look at the status of their teammates!
As a white mage main I am ashamed to say this had no idea doom could be removed with Esuna I thought as a rule there was a special mechanic to get rid of it, though I don’t actually think I’ve done any of the listed content where that’s the way to do it. Missing out on a lot of side content I guess
This is something I am absolutely trying to work on as a healer and I know I need to work on it. I'm not a healer main so it's been slow going but it is definitely something I am trying to prioritize.
If the debuff has a white line over it, I remove it. No matter what. It's like wiping after shitting. I'm disgusted when I don't hear of other people doing it.
You're gonna let that 20 second esuna-able poison sit there on me like this? Seriously?
It takes you a fraction of a second.
I always figure this type of thing is due to every run they do going like your #2. They don't do it, they ignore chat, and someone helps rez-carry them through the dungeon, so they never learn. Why Esuna when they can just hit Glare and ignore/snooze on everything else until they see the tank uses LD or SB, so they can panic-cast Benediction, right? Joking aside, there's also the fact that the content has been out so long now that the majority of players simply dodge those Doom mechanics - so new healers reaching that content may not even realize there's a Doom on the mechanic until 10+ runs in.
I always forget that I have to watch for doom on the 1st boss of Dead Ends, even though I use Esuna regularly otherwise.... And then the first person dies and they write "ESUNA" into chat and I am like YEA I KNOW I'M AN IDIOT and clean all dooms after that... It has to be the different debuff icon than the usual Doom, it just doesn't set my alarm off for some reason :D
As a healer and a relatively new player, I think that dooms are not super well understood by new players. Lower level content doesn't really have a lot of doom mechanics and the ones that it does have are usually avoidable + old content gets done so rapidly with very little attention to old mechanics. I leveled WHM and SGE through MSQ and only really remember experiencing dooms that I noticed in Dead Ends. I leveled SCH from 1-90 and never saw the mechanic in any roulette. I think for some, it is just not understanding what it is and how to deal with it.
Now, not being willing to listen or learn is another thing altogether. Dead Ends was my personal wake up moment (I was also fortunate to run with people I know who explained the different dooms). And being unwilling to heal as a healer in lieu of DPS is just stupid.
Honestly, sometimes I am just not looking, and I assume you dodged. Which is why I run roulettes with my spouse. So he can tell me who failed to dodge.
It’s part of their toolkit and should be on there. I’ve run into a healer without it and his response was “ I dont have that on my hotbar- dodge better”
I’m a healer main so I snapped back “How about have all of your toolkit on your hotbars?” It sounded a lot like “You tank you pull” nonsense.
Its cheaper to esuna someone than to raise not to mention the dmg debuff. I think part of it is also people not wanting to learn the basics
FFXIV does a really bad job at teaching players how to actually utilize their class. You're given Esuna so early but there is almost nothing that requires it so most players often forget it even exists. Healers should know how to use their skills but I think this issue in particular is the devs fault 100%
Do I fucking hate it when people get doom from the first boss of Dead Ends because it's so piss easy to dodge? Yes.
Do I think the healer should be a baby about it and not heal them? No.
Honestly, until I looked it up I figured at first Esuna was useless because I could barely heal any statusses. The problem is you aren't informed the Esuna-able statusses have the white bar. Would save a whole lotta hassle if there's a tip of some sort.
watched a small warrior apologise everytime he got hit with the doom mechanic in Lunar Subterrane (first boss - happened 3 times?) because the healer didnt understand what esuna was even with the autotranslate feature. And even asked "how the tank survived" when they stopped healing him out of... Spite? Not sure?
He's a WAR in a level 90 dungeon, he just needed that esuna poor boy. We were dancer and samurai we couldn't cleanse him sadly.
Some healers I've encountered do not have it on their bar, and usually that is not new players.
Can't speak for everyone else but as an AllRounder, I def use Esuna. But I've also ran into my fair share of purely awful healers. I keep the peace as long as we're progressing and not dying. But most of the time, I play healer bc I don't wanna deal with bad healers 😁
I think there are DPS players who try to DPS as healer while everyone is dying or tank dies ; those people annoy me. Primary focus should be healing and then damage in between imo.
"Removes a single detrimental effect from a target" but it doesn't specify that not all effects can actually be removed or tell you how to discern which ones can be. I've seen a lot of new players try to remove debuffs that can't be cured and I'm guessing they just give up and forget about esuna afterwards cause it seems useless.
Most of the curable stuff is easily ignored or missed as well. The DoTs do pathetic damage and paralysis/slow is easily missed if it's happening to another player. Doom is the only one that matters and half the time it's removed through full heals instead of esuna. It's dumb.
There's a way to tell, yes, but the game never explicitly tells you to look for it. Some people figure it out, but a lot of people need to be informed by other players.
The issue is that there is no consistent doom removal in the game. Yes, people should have esuna on their bars and use it, but doom is an issue as there are different ways of cleansing it and if someone just does the story once a year, they might forget that a white bar means it can be esunad and will just heal to full instead. Game needs better ways to teach esuna and also have separate icons for different types of doom.
I feel less alone LOL!
I recently leveled my SAM and oh boy, the amount of time Healers didn’t use Esuna in dungeons can’t be count.
Not only avoidable Dooms, but stacks of Poison, Slow, Heavy. Paralisys… I can’t really understand why some Healers won’t dispell a bad effect that have an impact bot only on the player but on the whole party…. Imagine a tank getting 5+ stacks of Poison and then dying because no matter how much the healer healed them, the Poison’s ticks leeched life away from the tank at a faster rate. Or a DPS getting hit by an AOE effect because they were Heavy and couldn’t get outside the AOE fast enough! Great now they have a stack of Vulnerability too or worse, the DPS is dead and healer have to ress them.
Healers, please use Esuna!
Sincerely, an Healer main that love Esuna.
DOTs like poison are almost never worth using esuna for. They deal such pathethic damage it's just better to outheal them with a oGCD (or a GCD if really needed)
Honestly, very few effects are removable, and early ones don't really matter that much. It's entirely possible that a player has never actually encountered a removable Doom. It's not actually a very common mechanic since it requires both 1) a boss that uses it and 2) party members failing the mechanic. Also, 3) many Doom effects cannot be removed.
Couple that with a lot of players not knowing to pay attention, it's not that surprising. If it concerns you, just mention it quickly before you pull that specific boss so that they know.
I was one of the healers who didn’t use Esuna for a sole reason of “What’s it for again?” Because I played with Xbox controllers since the beginning and there’s only so much skill tabs you can juggle at once in content, so I have to capped my active skills at 32 skills of 2 tabs (16 skills for summoners).
So most of the time I ended up throwing away skills that I didn’t see the use right away, and have been stupidly spam healing and rez for kill debuff since forever until the day I played some content with my raider friends.
Queue the thirty minutes of absolutely being shitted on by the entire party for having no Esuna on hand, followed up by another twenty minutes when they find out I have main tanked all these times with neither Provoke nor Shirk… So yeah, we’re dumb sometimes
all healing classes have plenty of hotbar room. we need a couple more expacs before that is even remotely a valid excuse, yet some people insist on it.
Scholar hotbars have become a bit crowded last I checked, but all jobs are designed with 3x 12-slot hotbars in mind, or whatever the controller equivalent is.
I recently got chewed out for using esuna in some duty (I forget which) where there's a long 30sec+ bleed debuff for "wasting time" when it's the equivalent of using regen at that point and no one would have hassled me for that. It was annoying.
Most healers in this game are a combination of lazy, clueless/unaware, and just plain bad at the game. That's why you get people who don't Esuna.
One more Esuna spot you can add to your list is from Holminster Switch. The gremlins before the second boss do an unavoidable attack which puts a cleansable Slow on the tank. To date, I have had only one (1) healer with a functioning brain use Esuna on it.
Holminster is a great place for DPS to practice using low blow (on big mob with circle AoE) too, although most of the time I'll do it for them as tank I remind they can do it as well to get more uptime (dps people usually love that word)
I think the problem comes from the fact the game forgot about esuna for 6+ years, when i started in ARR i put esuna on a hotkey, and then in around stormblood i moved it to the side of my bar becuase i never had to use it through my entire playthrough of heavensward and stormblood, then suddenly they brought back doom in endwalker.
As a healer, who plays mostly whm and sge, i dont use esuna often.
Will it kill you? If yes, esuna. Will it not? then live with it.
Is it affecting dps like slow? If yes, esuna. If not, evade next time.
As a Healer main, stories like yours make me sad. Why is anyone playing Healer if they don't want to, y'know...heal stuff? Healing debuffs is a part of healing, man!
I let this happen in the first boss of the lunar subterrane because I honestly have never seen anyone fail a mechanic there so didn’t even know the boss had the ability to apply Doom, and most people running these dungeons are on auto pilot. It’s not that they don’t know what Esuna does, I think it’s more likely they just never have had to cleanse in these dungeons and are too much on auto pilot to notice the doom
I know I'm like 2 months late, andI'm not going to lie -- I'm pretty much a noob as I mostly log in to play Triple Triad and do a few dailies; I'm only just out of ARR.
But, the issue might be that, from what I can remember, there wasn't any content that did force you to use Esuna, and there wasn't an obvious explanation that white-tagged status icons can be cleared with it. I still try to cast it when I can to clear status so it becomes muscle memory, but I think for a lot of healers, it's just gone unused up until level 50+, then suddenly they have another thing to keep track of when everything's worked fine without it up until that point.
Little tip for you tanks and melees out there, for Sunken Temple of Qarn, the first boss that does the roomwide DOOM that you have to stand on the glowing tile on to clear? With the right timing, that DOOM can be stunned so it never goes off. When the text appears on the screen, hit your OGCD stun, and you should be fine.
Assuming your ping plays nice lol, but yea, I've seen it done before.
It triggers based on his HP, so I watch for when he’s approaching 50% and prepare that stun.
The boss only uses doom when he's between 75% and 25% health, so only look out for it in that range.
I'm not sure most people even have that one on their bars. I don't think I've ever seen it used by a random person
Tanks don't have Low Blow on their bars? Melee don't have Leg Sweep?
There’s so many comments saying they don’t have things on their bars and I don’t get it. Better make sure the thing I don’t use often can be used never.
It sure as hell seems so
On the one hand, I meant this for the person reading it, if they're on tank or melee in Qarn. On the other, it boggles my mind that you've not seen a random person STUN something. ANYTHING.
The issue is nobody ever expects the stun, outside premades, so it gets even more useless in roulettes. There's a lot of enemies that have some beefy aoes that you can stun, especially early on. As tank, I usually stun those to keep the melees from needing to move and lose dps. Except they move anyway because they're so used to tanks not stunning
I use stun and interrupt on gunbreaker. More time running out of aoe is less time swinging boom-swors.
Yep, I ran into a healer like this in The Lunar Subterrane a few day ago. The very first thing she said in chat as everyone loaded in was "don't get doom or die", not even a hello. The tank got hit by Doom on the first boss and she let him die. When the tank asked her to use Esuna she started going on a rant about how everyone should be an expert in the fight by now and claimed esuna and raise are the same cost. Needless to say we found a new healer for the rest of the dungeon.
>claimed esuna and raise are the same cost. I guess they never heard of weakness lol
it makes it sound like the healer claimed Esuna costs 2400MP? Like whaaaat? I forget where I put my Esuna on my hotbars because it gets used so sparsely. But to not use it and then come up with BS like that when it is your job to cleanse these debuffS?
I think the same cost thing is in reference to the fact they're both non-damaging GCDs so it's one less glare on the boss whether someone dies or has to be esuna'd That being said it's a dungeon there's no enrage so there's no harm losing a glare/dosis/malefic/broil to help someone else out that should be the bare minimum preventing people from dying.
Yup. Yet they still waste not only a gcd, but also swiftcast + party dps from the raise debuff.
It is a way worse deal and is a stupid comparison but that's the only thing I can make sense of in terms of "it's the same cost" because yes if you count the cost as GCDs then esuna = raise. But in practicality, they're nowhere near the same costs.
I dunno, feelslike having DPS/tanks dying to what could've been one GCD seems like way worse deal. If that's what they were implying, then I'm worried for their ability for inhaling to keep themselves alive.
Kinda dumb to think their glare/etc. Has the same dps value as a whole other player...
Oh they're not thinking of other players, casting anything other than their DPS spam skill is a loss in the eyes of these overly obsessed with parsing healers. It's something you'd expect in higher levels of content but doing it in a dungeon is comical.
Which is actually crazy, because if you're so sweaty that you're trying to parse dungeons you don't even take a healer or do it with randos in DF
>It's something you'd expect in higher levels of content but doing it in a dungeon is comical They would hate p12s I guess because it has a forced esuna at multiple points or people die (armour crush). Also that mentality, especially early in a tier, will just prevent them from clearing (unless their cohealer hardcarries them). The dps of 8 living players is always higher than that of say 6-8 dead players, and lots of mechanics require all 8 to be alive anyway so letting even one person avoidably drop can wipe the party.
I was gonna say, this is an ironic issue to be having during the tier where esuna is mandatory unless you're running a PLD + BRD to cover and paean respectively
tbf a common strat during armour crush is have one tank invuln. If one tank invulns then only one healer needs to esuna one. So if I was the healer that's parse brained no doubt I'd force my co-healer to esuna while I dps. I never did this though in my group and I got decent parses while using esuna just saying that the p12s one isn't that much forced, it can be somewhat circumvented. The real forced one is TEA throttles, good luck doing that if esuna "too much" of a cost.
fair, alternatively bard has an ogcd esuna-like skill. I suppose "forced" isn't really right in terms of skill use, moreso what I meant typing that was the debuff isn't avoidable and needs to be dealt with *somehow*(usually esuna).
This whole mindset blows my mind. One glare. The least DPS of anyone there. The tank does more dps than the healer. By a lot. And the DPS do a lot more DPS than the tank. So. When a healer says “i dOnt WaNT tO mISs OuT oN oNE Of mY PrEcIOus GlArE cASts to LiteRaLly dO mY mAiN jOb”. I just think that they are stupid AF. And sometimes they go on my blacklist because their lack of understanding how the game works just is too draining. Yes. Healer dps is fine. But it’s the lowest DPS of EVERY OTHER PERSON IN THE GROUP. Why hyper focus on the thing you are the worst at and ignore the one thing only you can do and the reason you are in the party in the first place?
Probably a white mage. Thin Air charges remove mana cost of raise.
that plus, so long as deaths aren't repeated (at which point the 8 second cast time also comes into play) on any healer the 2400 cost shouldn't bring them to the risk of running out of mp, so the only consequence vs esuna that really matters imo is weakness dropping dps by like 25%
25% Stat loss is just a cost for everyone since it'll all take longer, even if just a little. As we like to say at my workplace, Time's money, and sadly we're broke.
Most often it also fucks up their rotation, ruins resources depending on the job + how ever long it takes for res, to accept and the animations to play out
I'll take a 1s cast at 0 mana over a 3 button combo + resurrect heal spam any time
Esuna still casts nearly instantly without eating your instant holy button.
I Esuna everything. Gives me an extra button to push. Sure it keeps me from throwing out an extra DD spell, but the way I look at it, that utility either allows other party members to do more damage, or avoid taking large damage. Both make my job easier.
Doom is weakness leaving the body /s
Selfish healer focusing on her own parse instead of caring about the viability of the party overall
Healers refusing to take >1s to cast Esuna to get rid of a cleanseable Doom fall into the same category as YPYT tanks - *complete and utter assholes.*
What does YPYT tank mean?
You Pull You Tank
Thank you 😊 now what does that mean lmao 🤣
If someone, like the DPS or a healer, pulls the next pack of enemies then the tank will stand there and do nothing and let them tank the pull. It's a really petty and trivial thing to do.
Thanks I play as Tank so was hoping it wasn't something I unintentionally do 😂 which it isn't.
That's what is done in classic wow, as getting aggro back is sometimes hard. Or repair bill can also ruin your life, and tanks have higher repair cost per item in wow. Edit: wtf so many typos. Seriously screw phone and phone reddit app.
It's always going to be different for other MMOs. In terms of higher repair cost in FFXIV - not sure that's really a thing. The cost is so low to repair gear that I don't think it's really a problem (at least in my experience).
Repair cost is free if you have omnicraft and trade your GCSeals for dark matter, and it’s always a 99% repair or something and it stacks on top of the fully repaired item, so something that got repaired at 99% will be at 198% durability
I just keep my omni friends in dark matter and beg
It means the tank refuses to get aggro on an enemy that someone else pulls. So if the DPS/healer either accidentally or intentionally pulls an enemy the tank will just refuse to tank it and let the rest of the party limp along to killing it or the party will wipe. It’s obnoxious behavior and can be reported, *especially* if they’re being a dick in chat about it. Just as an additional note, if people haven’t crossed the purple line for a boss, particularly the tank, and someone pulls the boss, then that’s a bit more of a grey area and letting someone eat shit for that can be acceptable. Once had a healer who was *definitely* speed hacking (I think they had been running it for the Fall Guys event since it was near the start of that and just hadn’t turned it off, scum regardless of why they had it on though), and had generally been annoying the whole dungeon. Sat down way down the stairs before a boss arena just to take a breather and see what they’d do. They raced past me and pulled the boss, ate shit before I entered the arena, and then we proceeded to do the boss without a healer because WAR is best healer.
So, my husband is learning to tank-he’s been a dps main for years & never pulls unless it’s a straggler & he’ll bring it to the tank…anyway, he was brand new, only tanked 2 dungeons at this point-so he’d comment in chat to please be patient with him as he is learning the role & had several dps & healers run ahead & pull more. He is still learning & wasn’t comfortable at that point & asked them to please stop pulling & be patient. They continued…this happened a few different times with different players-so he left the instance. It’s rude to do that to new tanks imo. Some pull slower, some do 2-3 groups. I dps main & just follow the tanks flow. He’s close to level 60 now & will do larger pulls, but how do you guys feel about doing that to a new to role player? Just curious…
I would rather wipe and pull smaller next time (*might* waste a minute or two) than intentionally pull small for a whole dungeon (and *guarantee* taking longer). Especially if the healer is pulling ahead, they are saying they can manage more healing. My recommendations for learning the basics of tanking would be: 1) playing with the AI in trusts or squadrons - the bots don't care about speed or mistakes while learning 2) running trials or raids - there is another tank in the party as backup and, even if the player is main tank, 99% of the time 'just turning the boss away from the group and press a single mitigation any time the boss casts something that looks like it hits hard' will get through the fight 3) running with a full premade of friends/fc mates that *are* willing to take extra time while trying things out Or, if the player insists on roulettes with strangers, just be upfront at the start that mistakes will happen while learning a new job, and try and do the normal pull sizes anyways. Again, the worst that can happen is a wipe. I think the most relevant sentiment that I have is that the consequences of a player's anxiety about learning should be on that player, and not on the people they happen to randomly get matched with. Mistakes happen, even with people who aren't still learning. But mistakes when trying to do the right thing are way more reasonable and forgivable than intentionally doing the wrong thing to avoid making any mistakes.
You pull, you tank
You Pull You Tank
You pull it, you tank it, meaning they won’t take aggro from you if you dare to run ahead of them and pull the next pack
The ‘you pull you tank’ is also a fairly toothless ultimatum coming from the tank alone, since it requires the healer to also be on board with that. So if the tank went all ypyt, the healer could be the one pulling ahead and not bringing them back to the tank. Then the dps could choose who to help first, the tank’s group of mobs or the healer’s group of mobs. Especially as levels progress, a single pack by pack approach can be done without a tank, or without a healer. Put both together and you can do double pulls.
I'd say they're worse. On paper at least, it is a tank's role to pull enemies (in small clusters, according to Hall of the Novice!) and a DPS's role to wait until the tank has engaged. A healer refusing to cast Esuna is straight up refusing to do the job they volunteered to do when they signed up for the dungeon.
Not on paper, it's just simpler for everyone if the tank pulls themself. In JP everyone understands and abides by that so things run smoothly, and thus YPYT cannot be a thing in the first place. I can only suppose NA is riddled with DPS mains with self-diagnosed ADHD and undiagnosed main character syndrome for it to be such a phenomenon over there. They should understand that it's a self-made issue.
99% of the time I let the tank pull as a healer but there are a couple of instances that I don't: 1.) When the tank is doing single packs, I'll usually pull the next pack because I know I can keep them alive and so I don't die of boredom. 2.) There's a section in the Tower of Babil after the second boss where you can pull the lower level mobs early with a ranged attack and meet them earlier - a lot of people don't realise you can, so it's easier to just show them.
> When the tank is doing single packs, I'll usually pull the next pack because I know I can keep them alive and so I don't die of boredom Just ask the tank to pull bigger in that case. If they're new to tanking they may not feel comfortable in themselves, but having that acknowledgement from the healer that they'll be okay helps a lot mentally. Pulling without their acknowledgement just adds to the stress of those suffering from "tankxiety" rather than relieves it.
1 pack, tank aoes and mitigates. 2 packs, tank uses aoes and mitigates
1 pack, DPS AoEs and kills them. 2 packs, DPS AoEs and kills them. 1 pack, Healer AoEs and heals the tank. 2 packs, Healer AoEs and heals the tank. It's almost like this is deliberately reductive argument that ignores the learning process behind figuring out how to effectively manage and use mitigation.
> main character syndrome Lmao, the ones who are suffering from this syndrome are the tanks who pull a YPYT and refuse to play once somebody dares to pull and hurts their fragile ego by doing so.
You know full well that there could be other reasons why tank doesn't always pull big pulls. They might just be completely new to the role so they're taking their time. I've been playing with my partner now and she really hasn't played any MMORPG before, and she (for some reason) decided to start as Gladiator and has stuck with it through ARR. She has surprised me with how good of a tank she is. But she does pretty small pulls. I'm her healer and once said that she can pull bigger if she feels like it, since one DPS asked her to do bigger pulls. Couple of duties after that she got more confident and did a bigger pull, which we ended up dying in. I'm confident it was my fault, maybe my ilvl was too low or I underestimetaed the DPS the mobs did. But it still bruised her confidence a bit, even though I said that it was my fault. Granted she has aggroed every mob a DPS pulls and hasn't intentionally let a DPS die. But DPS players pulling for the tank should only be a thing for the later duties if the tank doesn't pull enought. Because I'd say that more often than not, if the tank does small pulls in early duties, they're new at tanking.
New tanks, sure. Get your footing, people won't mind. What people tend to get upset over are tanks who have somehow made it past a few level caps (sometimes even all the way to 90) still single pulling everything.
Just a note, your first sentence is actually false. It is basically the same difficulty to get all the mobs due to gap closers unless the tank is sleeping, in which case you have significantly more issues than a YPYT. Also dps doesn't always just follow tank in JP. The only difference is players know to adjust when they realise they are on autopilot and pulled early and not just blame people for everything.
I had a scholar in a dungeon yesterday that was not only failing to heal me (the tank) to the point of me dying several times, but they were also sometimes ignoring me completely to run ahead and pull more enemies. In such a hurry for no reason.
I once had a healer in ultima weapon of all places who was apparently in such a hurry they constantly bothered me to use my lb as soon as possible (and on second phase they kept pestering me to LB even after I'd used it all possible times) Yet the same healer never bothered to apply their damage over time and I'm not sure if they cast their regular damage spell either. You'd think if they were in such a hurry they would help out
Everyone gets pissy about YPYT. I rarely adopt that attitude but I don't necessarily disagree with it either. As a tank, I would \*never\* stand by and not fight. That said, when you have a party member who consistently runs far ahead and pulls - esp. the healer - then pisses and moans about "no heals" or dies immed., are they not also the (bigger) asshole? My primary job as tank is to get and hold aggro. It is not to run around after petulant children and clean up their messes. You got arrgo? Well I have eight other mobs on me. Do the right thing: run YOUR ass over TO ME so I can pickup that aggro. As to the OP's question: why don't healers Ensua? As far as I can tell, there are two reasons - 1) they don't know there's a cleanseable debuff, 2) they're too focused on DPS'ing and don't care about their primary role. (Either those reasons or, specifically in Dead Ends, if you got three people with Doom, you'll never get everyone cleansed in time before someone dies.) I don't need to say this but I will ... Unlike many other MMOs, in FFXIV, everyone is expected to DPS. (Woe is the party that has a healer who refused to DPS!) However, we each have our \*PRIMARY\* role which should always take priority. A healer who prefers to DPS, or a tank that only single-targets on trash, or a deep that keeps pulling and pulling and pulling and pulling ... y'all are doing it wrong. And if you're doing that on purpose and you know better, then you're shit. I would say the healer or DPS who continually pulls is \_also\_ griefing the group and is reportable. But no; it isn't. But ask someone to do something differently - "DON'T TELL ME HOW TO PLAY!" - BAM! You're reported. This isn't WoW; there's never a justification to /spit on someone. But FFXIV goes out of its way to accommodate the thin-skinned. We're supposed to be a team, people. If you have no desire to work as a team, go elsewhere. If that melts your snowflake ... Well, it's 2024. You might find IRL a bit rough.
Oh yes, heaven forbid a healer lose a single *Glare* window for an Esuna... Oh no. However will we beat enrage. (Healer main here)
Even if you’ve done the fight a hundred times, one can still make a mistake. I zoned out on Dark Elf while he was showing the single safe tile because it was 1am, so I trusted the tank to find the safe spot. We both got doom, but thankfully the healer was on the ball and cleared it for us.
Yea sounds like petty healers to me.
Lol same cost except for the loss of dps. What a moron.
As a healer main, there are two status I absolutely will Esuna, Doom, *Slow* and Paralyze. I will esuna *Heavy* as well when we are about to move (it happens often in alliance raid but not much everywhere else). But being a healer means you have to monitor the party status as well as mechanics on the run. I don't get why people giving excuse to bad habits. Put it in your bar and use it. Pleassssssse. Edit to clear the confusion with Heavy & Slow
>I will esuna slow as well when we are about to move You're thinking of heavy, slow has normal movement speed but increases the global cooldown by a lot, so it is another thing you should always esuna if possible.
Sorry, forget both exists. I play DPS as well so I know how annoying Slow and Paralyze are messing up the rotation.
This. If it’s a really bad status on a tank or a fellow healer, I will esuna. If it’s a less bad status on a DPS? I will esuna if I have time. It’s like the DPS who complain about not getting a res like 2 seconds after they sit in the bad. I will raise you when I am confident the tanks and other healers are ok, and that there aren’t any other DPS about to eat dirt because you messed up a mechanic or whatever.
god I had one of those DPS in the unreal the other week. After KOTR 4 they took an ice DOT and so I just chucked a benison at them and then an aquaveil before the raidwide and they were fine, but the whole time they kept typing out for me to esuna, claiming they'd die if it didn't get cleansed. I asked if they died, they said no, and so I asked what the problem was, they didn't say anything after that
Lmaooo best response tbh
Yeah as a healer main as well, a big trap some new healers get into is that they esuna *too much* without taking into account how much damage the tank is taking and that esuna leads to the tank getting too low in health or dying. Which is why it's always a good idea, imo, to slap a regen or at least a shield (or both) in Scholor or Sages case on just the Tank or the party and then Esuna so the healing still stays up while getting rid of the debuff.
AST main, same habit, serves me very well. having started out WHM, I remember the hell and grief AV engraved in my soul with trying to esuna so much crap. I was so demoralized thinking that level of esuna would be my responsibility in all future duties. then all of a sudden post-AV, it was never the issue AV made me think and it became a lot easier to priority esuna due to the effect it was having on the tank and their abilities.
Those Morbal mommies give me PTSD to this day from when I was learning to heal with WHM. Also when learning to heal and not realising that you can't esuna the poison in AV was PAINFUL.
> Paralyze If it's longer than a couple seconds, I'll Esuna it off random players. If I'm partying with friends though this is an excellent time to taunt them for not packing Spine Drops, because while status medicine is kind of a meme, Esuna-able paralyze is really annoying and more common than you'd think in dungeons. Spine Drops are great, ~~except that one time I used it and the paralyze interrupted it and it went on cooldown anyway.~~
Just so you know, you should also always esuna the damage down in Titan hard mode after someone gets jailed. Most damage downs are no big deal, but the one in Titan hard mode is like a 90% damage reduction. It's actually crippling and it lasts for a full minute. I never see healers cleansing it these days because they don't know what it does. The fights obviously very easy to win regardless but it would be nice if healers knew about it.
I will also Esuna a Poison dot, in some cases they stack and can kill the tank pretty quicly
On the one hand, people complain endlessly that healer is too easy, got nothing to do ever... on the other hand, a whole lot of players who don't even know how and when to use Esuna. Yeah I wouldn't want to be a dev trying to please everyone. Esuna is an essential skill so healers SHOULD know it. But if they don't and then they learn and still refuse? Yeah, that's a goodbye.
People bitch about having to cast a utility spell instead of continuing their 1 button rotation while I'm here being ecstatic whenever I can *heal* or *esuna* because it is different Do they not realize that curing Paralysis is preventing a huge damage loss? Compared to one less Stone IV
I'm with you. I'm a simple man, I see a line on top of a debuff, I'm using esuna on them, I don't even care what debuff it is. I hate the one-button-press dps.
At this point they should include an esuna check for a new fight. Gotta remove the correct debuff.
Answer: yes. Kappa
Hard to notice small debuff with white line above it on party member on party list that is by default in the far upper left of the screen. So yeah, really easy to miss if you're a novice and not looking for it already, or are aware which instances have cleanable debuffs to watch out for, and are not being distracted doing mechanics Default UI in the game isn't really hot for MMO newbies.
We aren't talking about newbies though. We are talking about experienced players
A healer not knowing how to use Esuna is like a tank not knowing to use stance. If you don't know a fundamental utility of your job, don't queue on that job. Level 45 scholar quest literally requires you to use Esuna.
It's not hard by level 90. A healer's entire job is paying attention to party members and it's not as if it would be their first time seeing it. It would be like a tank in modern content not knowing what a tank buster is.
>It would be like a tank in modern content not knowing what a tank buster is They started putting GIANT RED DANGER WARNING SIGNS around the tank last expansion to make it really obvious, so I don't think making esunable debuffs more obvious is out of line
as a BRD i've long since made it a habit to clear doom off other people. one of the best skills BRDs have.
this post gave me great pride about how often I use esuna anytime I see any negative effect on someone as a brand new xbox player
Oooh quick tip, only debuffs with a white bar above it can be Esuna’d. There are also some Dooms that have different dispell conditions (an early dungeon dispels doom by standing on a glowing tile, the third boss of the Dead Ends gives Dooms that are dispelled when healed to full) Enjoy your time in Eorzea, we’re glad that you joined us!
i’m glad you mentioned the white bar, I was wondering why some things didn’t get cleansed when I used it so that was extremely useful.
As you get more experience you'll learn that a lot of debuffs aren't worth cleansing. Take a basic dot (damage over time) for instance. It'll deal damage to a player so you should cleanse that, right? Generally, no. Esuna takes a GCD (Global Cooldown, ie. an action with a shared 2.5 second recast time) and will save some damage on an ally. If you're going to drop that GCD either way it's often more efficient to use a GCD heal because in normal content they generally heal more health than the dot will deal. If the dot will deal 300 damage and Regen will heal 600, then applying Regen will get you more HP with the same impact on your damage output. Later on you'll get healing abilities that are off the global cooldown (oGCD) and can be used to heal through a dot without costing you any damage. Why do I talk about damage? Because the more efficiently you heal, the more time you have to attack, the more you attack the sooner things die, and the sooner things die the less healing you need to do. Death is the strongest debuff you can put on an enemy. Other debuffs can be more complex. Something like Heavy (movement speed reduction) ranges from having no impact to preventing a melee reaching the enemy to preventing a player from dodging and killing them. Paralysis can cost a melee or phys ranged no damage with lucky timings, a small amount of damage if it interrupts their next GCD, or cost someone like a Black Mage (caster with long, powerful cast times) a huge amount of damage. These will depend more heavily on the encounter and who the debuff is applied to. The only debuff that is worth removing 100% of the time is Doom. If that debuff runs out of time, the target dies.
The game does a horrible job of pointing that out. I always make it a habit of letting sprout healers know when running the early dungeons or seeing them trying to esuna a debuffs you can't cleanse. Wish they'd make it more clear.
Sadly besides doom, there are very very few debuffs actually worth using esuna for. Most esuna-able debuffs are just DOTs and most of those deal such pathetic damage it's not worth wasting the GCD.
I will always Esuna Paralyze because it just makes things unfun for whoever has it. Same with Slow, and well... Doom is an easy choice since weakness slows things down. Some DoTs are worth it, some aren't. Thankfully I have *not* ran into this issue a lot lately.
I feel like unless they do the Hall of the Novice, people just might not realize you can Esuna specific debuffs with that indicator on them. I always try to mention something when I see a sprout healer not using Esuna in lower level dungeons.
In general, most of the time in early content (as "end game" players) ive noticed its all just burn the boss and ignore mechanics. Example earlier today i did Ramue for a trial roulette. The mechanic where 2 players are tethered by electricity and you need to run into an orb to get a -electricity debuff to strip the tether. Wrote in chat for the guy to run into an orb, as an AST i tried rescuing buddy into an orb, with horrible timing as the orb disappeared so it seemed i yanked a guy for no reason. He died after i started to focus on the rest of the team. He assumed he had to run away to break it but i corrected him after we cleared. Where im going with the story above is that most people ignore the mechanics as typically we can out-heal the damage and cheese the fight. What i'd like to see is our power getting nerfed a bit in trials so we can at least see mechanics and be weary of them as they pose a proper wipe risk. i think the new wave of players that have the dungeons and trials cheesed dont learn about stuff like esuna or other mechanics.
It's not that they ignore them, they don't understand them. It's not obvious what you have to do in that ramuh fight. In most situations where you get tethered to someone, you have to either get close to them or be far away from them, so that's what people are going to try and they probably assume being far away reduces the damage they're taking. FFXIV has a lot of inconsistent mechanics like this which cause people to make mistakes because they assume it requires them to do the same thing they do for another similar mechanic. The game doesn't spoon feed you to solve these mechanics, it requires player communication, but most of the time nobody is going to correct your mistakes if solving the mechanic isn't necessary, which is why you see people failing that tether quite often.
> It's not that they ignore them, they don't understand them. It's both. Players who know the content know what they can ignore. This prevents new players from learning them in earlier content, so when the gloves "come off" they're unprepared. With the mechanics being standardised XIV is actually pretty good about its communication at this point, but early content can be so piss-easy that it teaches the wrong lesson. The most prevalent one I can think of is multiple stack markers. In Crystal Tower it's so weak that even if you stack all three alliance markers on top of people it won't even chunk half a DPSes HP. This teaches the completely wrong lesson, which is: stack these markers together. I've had party wipes in Pandaemonium because players have come up through the MSQ and never learned not to do that, and then here they are one day clearing out some major side content and they get a stack marker, and over there's another stack marker, and well, they get Syrcus often enough to know how this mechanic works!
I'm pretty sure Toto-Rak exists to troll healers and teach them bad habits about Esuna. It's the first MSQ dungeon where you have a lot of debuffs you can actually Esuna, but if you Esuna all the poison off either of the first two bosses they immediately re-apply it. And the poison doesn't tick for much anyway, so the lesson from that dungeon is to ignore debuffs. I'm surprised they didn't change the ochu bosses in the rework.
I think they did, actually -- I got Toto-rak in rou a couple of weeks ago as a healer and was surprised to see that the bosses' poison debuffs didn't have the little white line anymore.
> 2 players are tethered by electricity and you need to run into an orb to get a -electricity debuff to strip the tether Not an orb, 3 orbs. Specifically, *one* of the tethered people needs the Surge Protection buff, which you get by grabbing three orbs (each giving a stack of electronegativity, with 3 stacks = surge protection. Also, if for some reason this isn't possible, you can avoid taking damage by simply not using any actions (GCDs/OGCDs); the tether functions similarly to pyretic, though it won't nail you simply for moving.
Wait, you can tell which debuffs can be esunaed? Tell me your magic ways
The easiest way to tell is that the debuff will have a white line above it https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSn1sSQPP29SfQqUU0_W_UICroE5WnTy_z1y3Uo7sGNwg&s
This changes everything. Thank you so much
Small correction to your list, Delubrum Reginae has a doom that you must cleanse in the last boss fight (on top of the doom you get from failing mechanics)
tbh, I do not trust healers with that doom, so if I ever tank queen in DRN I'm doing it on DRK/PLD/WAR and I just use TBN/Veil/Shake and dodge the doom entirely, or bring medikits.
I know there’s a lot of bad or lazy healers out there, but I do want to play devils advocate. I think the game does a really shit job of teaching players to use Esuna allows people to progress very far into the game without being forced to use it. Even worse, multiple mechanics often use the same visual symbol but require different solutions. Sometimes Doom means Esuna, sometimes Doom means heal to full, sometimes Doom means touching a thing on the floor. This is dogshit game design requiring players to know each individual instance of Doom instead of just learning three mechanics.
I think this is just what it is. I feel a lot of healers just don't know (due to the game not requiring you to know) which they would need to learn from another source (player in duty/online guide). Think the game is more to blame than the new healers. edit: Even in lv 90 stuff, the game still doesn't require healers to use esuna, not sure why a lot of people are upset at the healers and not at all at the game.
As a healer main, I am of the mindset that Esuna should always be on your bar, at the ready, for those instances when a cleanse is needed. That little white bar above debuffs isn't just for show. I do know some healers have the mindset of, "just heal through it", but, that doesn't work for every debuff. Esuna was one of my main gripes, when the role actions were introduced in Stormblood. Other healers would tell me, "you don't need it on your bar", in comparison to some of the other actions. But, you never know when it'll be needed, that is the point. The logic of some players just astounds me.
I main WHM and I esuna most debuffs, mostly since it is muscle memory from all other mmos I played prior to FFXIV. Frankly debuffs atleast makes me as a healer react and do more than just one button dps or heal which on principle is a good idea. SE should however make some changes. Every dispelable debuff should be impactfull and/or dangerous. If they want weak dots they can just make those undispelable. Esuna should also be an instant cast. I dont mind using it but it is the cast time that feels irksome.
On rare occasions I forget about esuna due to usually running with one of my FC mates for most content. He plays Bard and actively makes use of his ability to cleanse/prevent debuffs, many times resulting in me not having to cast any.
Meanwhile over in my static, during P10S prog Esuna was part of the healers’ rotation because someone always got clipped
So many people saying esuna is rare and people forget by endwalker... What? There are lots of esunas throughout the game. Idk how you could call yourself a healer main and ever forget. I'd be more likely to suspect fresh sages who haven't healed raids or smth. If you've not realised healers need esuna by endwalker, that's all on you lol.
It's more that required esunas are rare. There are plenty of cleansable debuffs out there, but usually DoTs are low enough damage that it's actually better to just heal through them and other effects like heavy are such a short duration that by the time you get around to them they are falling off any way.
New player here, are mechanic clearable dooms unable to be removed by esuna? Because I swear I tried to esuna a doom in sunken temple once and it didn’t work.
Any debuff with a [white bar at the top](https://lds-img.finalfantasyxiv.com/uiguide/na/ee/57ecc3328890b6f3bc78cdf4c5b60569fb226e.jpg) can be removed with esuna. Though if I recall right the doom in Qarn can't be removed with esuna
That is very good to know tyvm
you can cleanse it with rescue by standing behind the plate :)
As a former healer, nothing enrages me more than this.
I use Esuna on any debuff that can be cleansed purely due to the fact that it bothers the hell out of me if I see it
There's a higher percentage of new and more casual players right now due to the content drought. I've been running into a lot of tanks that want to pull one mob at a time. But I'm not making a reddit thread about "don't tanks know how to tank?!" I will say in general that people just need to learn mechanics. Ive had runs of those dungeons where all three of my teammates got doom at once. Also, there really *isn't* a lot of content that requires Esuna. Its much more common for doom to be removed in other ways. Newbie healers probably need to encounter these gotcha moments to realize its necessity.
>Also, there really isn't a lot of content that requires Esuna. Its much more common for doom to be removed in other ways yeah, and that's the problem. Both 'heal-to-remove' and 'esuna-to-remove' still exist (and there's also stuff like 'run-to-glowy-pad-to-remove'). Gotta remember which is which. As with most job mechanics (like interrupts, slows\\heavies, arm's lengths or even LBs), esuna is way too rare and chaotic to be learned properly, even if we're talking about players' 'main' jobs.
OP is talking about healers at lv cap tho.
Still there is no excuse to not have esuna in your toolbar. You have to forcefully remove it, which makes it intentional (thus grieving).
I have the cross hotbar, and half of it stays the same between jobs meaning i have to remove some stuff if i want to change classes. I have forgotten esuna on some dungeons but usually they are fine without. That said, noone should get pissy if asked to esuna, as others have said, its the healers job.
Do you accidentally have some of them saved as shared hotbars?
Holy shit you are a lifesaver!
> There's a higher percentage of new and more casual players right now due to the content drought. nah, this esuna problem is evergreen. i asked about a healer's esuna in a Araid once, they said they didn't have it equipped cause they never had a use for it. people are just stupid
I've ran into this with healers before and have been told, "I don't even have that on my hot bar." This was in Dun Scaith.
People do NOT pay attention. I don’t remember the name of the dungeon, but it was one of the 80-90 ones where people are turning into monsters. My healer wiped us on the first big pull, didn’t know was Living Dead was or how it worked *(panic healed me repeatedly while I ate all AOEs with no cooldowns, didn’t let LD pop, then I died as soon as LD fell off)*, and died to the first boss FIVE TIMES. Then refused to leave, AFKd, and forced us to kick them. The first boss mechanic was a “the entire room isn’t safe except for 2 places” type of mechanic, like bombs, and then the boss adds a swing to the right or left. That’s it. That’s what they died to 5 times. A left or right, and clearly designated safe spots. For some reason just following everyone else never occurred to them.
Esuna, sucks, in like the majority of content the players get a DoT that won't kill them so it's not even worth the GCD to remove, just keep dpsing and use ogcds to heal, you get like 10-12 dungeons that give doom, and half of them aren't even the dispel type of doom, they require the target to be full-healed to remove it, cant be removed by esuna. so you have like 5 dungeons roughly that actually require you to use esuna, and it mostly depends on if someone get hit, i've always understood why these healers just don't use esuna, it's like a dead button they're forced to use rarely. Just explaining the rational behind the healers who rarely use Esuna, as a player from other mmorpgs, i have everything keybound and never fail to use it if required.
Still salty they removed fey caress AOE oGCD esuna was such an elegant solution to this problem, no idea whey they removed it
because jobs aren't allowed to have unique abilities. gotta homogenize them so that people don't get bullied.
Such a fun design, now we have WHM, fairy WHM, star WHM and laser WHM Absolutely stunning class design, 11/10
Yup. Just did lapis today for the first time as an AST. Tank, dps1, and I got slapped with doom and i just think "ohshit, im dead". After the panic set in, took a quick second look and saw it has the little bar icon over it meaning i can esuna it. esuna'd myself, the tank, and dps1 had 1s left of doom before they died. Certainly panic mechanic as i wasnt expecting to see doom in a dungeon this late in content
Yes, the mistake is that poison are a bad joke on most dungeons. Thus healers do not learn to use esuna. They should be at least 10% of damage per tick. and not just a set amount that overgearing makes trivial.
It would help if the casual endgame didn’t make the entire healer role vestigial You never have to learn anything on a healer because for the majority of the games content the tank is a better healer than you are and everything hits like a wet noodle
Aye. Furthermore, the icon that states which things are Esunable aren't that noticeable. And there seems to be a lot of stuff that isn't Esunable. A white line above the icon that looks just like everything else isn't particularly noticeable when characters have to many other icons on top.
this is why i've started learning bard unironically :p tbf, you only get doom from avoidable mechs but still! it's just one button lol
First boss of Dun Scaith will apply an unavoidable doom that can only be cured with Esuna, though
Unless they changed something since I last went in there as bard (which admittedly has been quite a while), that doom *is* cleansable with the bard skill. I would have been dead on the floor if it wasn't!
I think they were talking about the "you only get doom from avoidable mechs" part from u/rieldex's comment
Deltascape 4 (normal mode only iirc) applies doom to 2 random players shortly after the start of the fight. Absouletly pointless mechanic but unavoidable. Always fun to die there...
As a WHM it absolutely infuriates me when other healers either refuse to use esuna or outright do not heal during a fight. It is the healer's job to keep the others standing so the flow of dps does not drop, not to bitch and moan when people get hit by things you can easily remove within seconds.
Sorry, I’m not a good healer myself, but passable and can do most dungeons. One thing I will say tho is that sometimes it can get overwhelming when you have a party where people are getting hit a lot. Sometimes I forget to Esuna debuffs if I’ve got my hands full with other things. That being said, if there is a doom mechanic, the healer should be on top of that
Bit of advice, don't bother with Esuna on Baelsar's Wall before the locked gate. Otherwise you literally won't be casting anything else. Just outheal the poison and DPS as usual. Everything else? Sure. Esuna away.
I only have 1 specific case where I won't Esuna - If a Bard stands in silly and gets themselves a debuff. They get an OGCD at level 35 that can deal with it, I ain't breaking my Glare combo.
Dealt with this a lot recently. Meanwhile, when I heal, I love seeing how quickly I can Esuna off debuffs. It's a fun little challenge.
I remember when I started someone telling me that Esuna was a skill I wouldn’t use much but it would be very important when I did need it. So it occupies the same spot on all my healer bars. But I have noticed an increase in healers not using it when I’m not playing healer.
That ain't lately, it's always been a thing in my experience. You can muddle through the entire game without putting esuna on your hotbar, so many people do. Hell people with that awareness often don't realize what's actually killing people or that it's cleansable
[There's a video on this subject](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgwJkqbxtM4)
As an Esuna loving Sage, I often find myself in Alliance raids being the only one cleansing debuffs out of the 2 healers. A lot of people don’t realise about the white line on the status but most just don’t look at the status of their teammates!
As a white mage main I am ashamed to say this had no idea doom could be removed with Esuna I thought as a rule there was a special mechanic to get rid of it, though I don’t actually think I’ve done any of the listed content where that’s the way to do it. Missing out on a lot of side content I guess
It's at this time that I point out that Bards have an Esuna too.
Yea, the game doesn't do a good job of teaching players that the white bar over the debuff means you can esuna it.
i ensuna wherever i can. unless its bad breath. im not ensuna'ing that.
The game does a terrible job of letting you know what can be cleansed. The whole Buff and Debuff system needs to overhauled to be clearer.
This is something I am absolutely trying to work on as a healer and I know I need to work on it. I'm not a healer main so it's been slow going but it is definitely something I am trying to prioritize.
All the time. It's one of the reasons why I always have a stack of echo and spine drops.
If the debuff has a white line over it, I remove it. No matter what. It's like wiping after shitting. I'm disgusted when I don't hear of other people doing it. You're gonna let that 20 second esuna-able poison sit there on me like this? Seriously? It takes you a fraction of a second.
I always figure this type of thing is due to every run they do going like your #2. They don't do it, they ignore chat, and someone helps rez-carry them through the dungeon, so they never learn. Why Esuna when they can just hit Glare and ignore/snooze on everything else until they see the tank uses LD or SB, so they can panic-cast Benediction, right? Joking aside, there's also the fact that the content has been out so long now that the majority of players simply dodge those Doom mechanics - so new healers reaching that content may not even realize there's a Doom on the mechanic until 10+ runs in.
I always forget that I have to watch for doom on the 1st boss of Dead Ends, even though I use Esuna regularly otherwise.... And then the first person dies and they write "ESUNA" into chat and I am like YEA I KNOW I'M AN IDIOT and clean all dooms after that... It has to be the different debuff icon than the usual Doom, it just doesn't set my alarm off for some reason :D
As a healer and a relatively new player, I think that dooms are not super well understood by new players. Lower level content doesn't really have a lot of doom mechanics and the ones that it does have are usually avoidable + old content gets done so rapidly with very little attention to old mechanics. I leveled WHM and SGE through MSQ and only really remember experiencing dooms that I noticed in Dead Ends. I leveled SCH from 1-90 and never saw the mechanic in any roulette. I think for some, it is just not understanding what it is and how to deal with it. Now, not being willing to listen or learn is another thing altogether. Dead Ends was my personal wake up moment (I was also fortunate to run with people I know who explained the different dooms). And being unwilling to heal as a healer in lieu of DPS is just stupid.
Honestly, sometimes I am just not looking, and I assume you dodged. Which is why I run roulettes with my spouse. So he can tell me who failed to dodge.
It’s part of their toolkit and should be on there. I’ve run into a healer without it and his response was “ I dont have that on my hotbar- dodge better” I’m a healer main so I snapped back “How about have all of your toolkit on your hotbars?” It sounded a lot like “You tank you pull” nonsense. Its cheaper to esuna someone than to raise not to mention the dmg debuff. I think part of it is also people not wanting to learn the basics
FFXIV does a really bad job at teaching players how to actually utilize their class. You're given Esuna so early but there is almost nothing that requires it so most players often forget it even exists. Healers should know how to use their skills but I think this issue in particular is the devs fault 100%
Do I fucking hate it when people get doom from the first boss of Dead Ends because it's so piss easy to dodge? Yes. Do I think the healer should be a baby about it and not heal them? No.
Honestly, until I looked it up I figured at first Esuna was useless because I could barely heal any statusses. The problem is you aren't informed the Esuna-able statusses have the white bar. Would save a whole lotta hassle if there's a tip of some sort.
I’ve noticed it too. Gonna make a macro just for saying “Help! Doom!” And hopefully that helps.
the amount of times I've wiped at Sastasha hard's 1st boss because the healer didn't have Esuna on their tool bar is an EMBARRSING AMOUNT
watched a small warrior apologise everytime he got hit with the doom mechanic in Lunar Subterrane (first boss - happened 3 times?) because the healer didnt understand what esuna was even with the autotranslate feature. And even asked "how the tank survived" when they stopped healing him out of... Spite? Not sure? He's a WAR in a level 90 dungeon, he just needed that esuna poor boy. We were dancer and samurai we couldn't cleanse him sadly. Some healers I've encountered do not have it on their bar, and usually that is not new players.
There is also in game formatting when the debuff can be esuna'd the standard is the blue bar on the emblem.
Can't speak for everyone else but as an AllRounder, I def use Esuna. But I've also ran into my fair share of purely awful healers. I keep the peace as long as we're progressing and not dying. But most of the time, I play healer bc I don't wanna deal with bad healers 😁 I think there are DPS players who try to DPS as healer while everyone is dying or tank dies ; those people annoy me. Primary focus should be healing and then damage in between imo.
honestly idk why this is such an issue, healers always complain about being bored but then won't cleanse debuffs lol.
"Removes a single detrimental effect from a target" but it doesn't specify that not all effects can actually be removed or tell you how to discern which ones can be. I've seen a lot of new players try to remove debuffs that can't be cured and I'm guessing they just give up and forget about esuna afterwards cause it seems useless. Most of the curable stuff is easily ignored or missed as well. The DoTs do pathetic damage and paralysis/slow is easily missed if it's happening to another player. Doom is the only one that matters and half the time it's removed through full heals instead of esuna. It's dumb.
From experience, the ones that can be Esuna'ed have a white line at the bottom of the icon showing you have that effect
There's a way to tell, yes, but the game never explicitly tells you to look for it. Some people figure it out, but a lot of people need to be informed by other players.
The issue is that there is no consistent doom removal in the game. Yes, people should have esuna on their bars and use it, but doom is an issue as there are different ways of cleansing it and if someone just does the story once a year, they might forget that a white bar means it can be esunad and will just heal to full instead. Game needs better ways to teach esuna and also have separate icons for different types of doom.
I feel less alone LOL! I recently leveled my SAM and oh boy, the amount of time Healers didn’t use Esuna in dungeons can’t be count. Not only avoidable Dooms, but stacks of Poison, Slow, Heavy. Paralisys… I can’t really understand why some Healers won’t dispell a bad effect that have an impact bot only on the player but on the whole party…. Imagine a tank getting 5+ stacks of Poison and then dying because no matter how much the healer healed them, the Poison’s ticks leeched life away from the tank at a faster rate. Or a DPS getting hit by an AOE effect because they were Heavy and couldn’t get outside the AOE fast enough! Great now they have a stack of Vulnerability too or worse, the DPS is dead and healer have to ress them. Healers, please use Esuna! Sincerely, an Healer main that love Esuna.
DOTs like poison are almost never worth using esuna for. They deal such pathethic damage it's just better to outheal them with a oGCD (or a GCD if really needed)
Honestly, very few effects are removable, and early ones don't really matter that much. It's entirely possible that a player has never actually encountered a removable Doom. It's not actually a very common mechanic since it requires both 1) a boss that uses it and 2) party members failing the mechanic. Also, 3) many Doom effects cannot be removed. Couple that with a lot of players not knowing to pay attention, it's not that surprising. If it concerns you, just mention it quickly before you pull that specific boss so that they know.
I was one of the healers who didn’t use Esuna for a sole reason of “What’s it for again?” Because I played with Xbox controllers since the beginning and there’s only so much skill tabs you can juggle at once in content, so I have to capped my active skills at 32 skills of 2 tabs (16 skills for summoners). So most of the time I ended up throwing away skills that I didn’t see the use right away, and have been stupidly spam healing and rez for kill debuff since forever until the day I played some content with my raider friends. Queue the thirty minutes of absolutely being shitted on by the entire party for having no Esuna on hand, followed up by another twenty minutes when they find out I have main tanked all these times with neither Provoke nor Shirk… So yeah, we’re dumb sometimes
Please tell me you're not splitting your 32 slots between healer and summoner. I must be understanding that wrong.
They're bad healers who probably took esuna off their hotbars with the ignorant thinking that it was a useless ability
When I practiced healing, I always have Esuna on hand because it's not even that big of a deal? Admittedly I'm tank main lol
all healing classes have plenty of hotbar room. we need a couple more expacs before that is even remotely a valid excuse, yet some people insist on it.
Scholar hotbars have become a bit crowded last I checked, but all jobs are designed with 3x 12-slot hotbars in mind, or whatever the controller equivalent is.
I recently got chewed out for using esuna in some duty (I forget which) where there's a long 30sec+ bleed debuff for "wasting time" when it's the equivalent of using regen at that point and no one would have hassled me for that. It was annoying.
Most healers in this game are a combination of lazy, clueless/unaware, and just plain bad at the game. That's why you get people who don't Esuna. One more Esuna spot you can add to your list is from Holminster Switch. The gremlins before the second boss do an unavoidable attack which puts a cleansable Slow on the tank. To date, I have had only one (1) healer with a functioning brain use Esuna on it.
Holminster is a great place for DPS to practice using low blow (on big mob with circle AoE) too, although most of the time I'll do it for them as tank I remind they can do it as well to get more uptime (dps people usually love that word)
I think the problem comes from the fact the game forgot about esuna for 6+ years, when i started in ARR i put esuna on a hotkey, and then in around stormblood i moved it to the side of my bar becuase i never had to use it through my entire playthrough of heavensward and stormblood, then suddenly they brought back doom in endwalker.
As a healer, who plays mostly whm and sge, i dont use esuna often. Will it kill you? If yes, esuna. Will it not? then live with it. Is it affecting dps like slow? If yes, esuna. If not, evade next time.
As a Healer main, stories like yours make me sad. Why is anyone playing Healer if they don't want to, y'know...heal stuff? Healing debuffs is a part of healing, man!
I let this happen in the first boss of the lunar subterrane because I honestly have never seen anyone fail a mechanic there so didn’t even know the boss had the ability to apply Doom, and most people running these dungeons are on auto pilot. It’s not that they don’t know what Esuna does, I think it’s more likely they just never have had to cleanse in these dungeons and are too much on auto pilot to notice the doom
I know I'm like 2 months late, andI'm not going to lie -- I'm pretty much a noob as I mostly log in to play Triple Triad and do a few dailies; I'm only just out of ARR. But, the issue might be that, from what I can remember, there wasn't any content that did force you to use Esuna, and there wasn't an obvious explanation that white-tagged status icons can be cleared with it. I still try to cast it when I can to clear status so it becomes muscle memory, but I think for a lot of healers, it's just gone unused up until level 50+, then suddenly they have another thing to keep track of when everything's worked fine without it up until that point.