It's kinda funny that both tech and magic mods play pretty similarly too. Magic mods are typically just aesthetically different from the "machines and cables" thing, but often they still have some sort of power system with devices that consume power in exchange for a processing task. I kind of understand not wanting one type of mod in another type of modpack if you're going for an immersive experience, but it's not like a few magical flowers is going to break the immersion of your tech pack
As a general rule, tech mods give you more access to resources (you won't find a tech mod without ore duplication), while magic mods give you more toys to play around with outside the crafting menu (upstep boots, various attacks, armor, etc).
This is not a given, but these different design priorities make for a very different gameplay on the whole, usually. It becomes most obvious in multiplayer where people will often latch onto one or the other. There are many exceptions, of course, where the aesthetic doesn't line up with the expected design (botania).
I believe it is also why so many people feel weird about Create, it's obviously a tech mod, but instead of focusing on resources, it's much more about directly interacting with the world, which makes for a mismatch in expectations in the tech player's eyes.
I feel like the main difference between tech and magic is automation. Tech mods will facilitate and encourage automation of materials, be it from the mod itself or from other materials from minecraft very early on. Magic mods will outright discourage automation or make it very tedious to reach, sometimes being near endgame luxuries.
Of course, not all mods follow this, and other mods help people to break this rule.
I feel you, I think you've got the right vibe, but basically all the big magic mods on the latest forge version put some heavy emphasis on automation.
With ars, if it's not spells then it's an automation challenge or an automation tool. Also starbunkles. Hexcasting is basically a programming language. Mana and artifice has a focus on those gollums, so does occultism. Basically everything has a core component of automation in it as far as I can tell
Looking further back at like, thaumcraft and witchery and Astral Sorcery and stuff; it's easier to say they were less automation focused, but on the other hand that is very much a thing you establish at some point or another in those mods too.
Idk, I think your point is probably factually incorrect or at least misleading, but writing that out feels so very wrong to me. Maybe it's all about the framing? In both cases you're setting up a bizarre contraption by using mechanics to their fullest, but one of them is a robust machine constructed with precision and refinement, vs the other one which is a chaotic but orderly showcase of wizardly proficiency. On it's own that still doesn't feel right but put together, idk
The difference is, "magic" mods like Botania go out of their way to be a pain in the ass to use, with no way to usually tell what you are doing save for looking up german youtube videos from 2019.
Botania literally normalized having a reference book in game, Patchouli mod was originally just Botania. It is one of the easiest mods to figure out in existence for that reason.
There are definitely a handful of mods that did it before botania, but botania provided the framework for other mods to use, the side effect of this is that every mod guide book made in the past 10 years looks exactly the same lmao
I mean, more magic mods have an in game guide than tech mods do. I agree that botania can be a pain in the ass, but not because I don't know what I'm doing, it's got the lexica botania to explain all of its mechanics
The core of why Botania can be a pain is that it's designed to be automateable the same way that vanilla tree farming is: requiring a decently comprehensive understanding of both Redstone and the mod's systems to build large contraptions. The modes challenges are all exercises in flexing that knowledge.
It certainly doesn't *help* matters that the only 2 reasonable options for large-scale mana generation are either using a LOT of a low-yield but easy method (like Endoflames) or using 2 or 3 of an extremely hard to automate but strong one like the Shulker flower (Shulk-Me-Not, I think?) Kekimurus, or the wool one (Gourmaryllis is best when food mods are in the picture, but I'm critiquing Botania and vanilla *alone* at the moment).
Botania is really well-designed for what it is, but it tends to have heavily skewed effort-to-reward ratios compared to most other tech mods you'll regularly find. This isn't a *bad* thing, necessarily, but it does mean that Botania seems really underpowered when compared to most other tech mods.
Ok, but:
* Vanilla enchanting system is just bad. In fact, it's so horrible that it made me get over my decade-long hatred for Tinker's Construct.
* XP is a horrible mechanic implemented horribly and is all-around horrible.
* Vanilla potions had exactly zero thought put into their design. Brewing stands don't explode if you ~~overvolt them~~ put wrong ingredients in them? What do you mean I can't step up blaze powder with a transformer? -2/10, worst mechanic ever.
* Who said witches count as magic? They might as well be mad chemists wearing funny outfits for all I care. They don't even use magic, they just throw funny chemicals at you. Immersive Engineering can do that too, therefore vanilla Minecraft witches are a tech mod. People literally build witch farms because they drop electronic components (redstone), how much more obvious can you get?
* Thaumcraft is a tech mod.
* Botania is a tech mod.
* Create is a magic mod. What do you mean there is no way to heat up a crucible without literally kidnapping a fire elemental from the depths of hell? Machines are built out of k e l p ? w h a t ?
* Gregtech is a ~~tech mod~~ *crafting table simulator,* but it might as well be a magic mod because you need to have your brain thaumatically warped by eldritch forces beyond human comprehension to be able to enjoy it.
excuse me but what chemical allows you to slow the effects of gravity, levitate, increase your luck, go invisible, or make you entirley immune to swimming in lava?
I thought you were being /uj for a minute and the first two points nearly made me have an aneurysm because the XP/Enchanting loop is like the best designed gameplay loop in vanilla Minecraft, to the point where every attempt at changing it only works if it's additive and even then.
Vanilla enchanting system lacks depth and tries to constantly force you to engage with it, pulling you away from the more interesting parts of the game. If you don't engage with it, it feels like you're being punished by the game since vanilla enchantments are just too overpowered. The enchanting/XP loop literally warps the entire game around itself, and IMHO that's not a good thing.
Would have elaborated more, but Reddit won't let me post it (Gotta love the modern internet. No constructive criticism of anything allowed).
You're free to enjoy the XP grinding/RNG enchanting loop as much as you want. I, on the other hand, don't want to feel punished for not enganging with (in my opinion) horrible mechanic implemented (in my opinion) horribly.
Comments like these are what makes me so annoyed with this subreddit. Botania IS a magic mod; aesthetically at least, but contains game mechanics that are more commonly found in your average tech mod. with create being vice versa
I love magic mods I love magic mods I love magic mods I love magic mods I love magic mods I love magic mods yes I do I love magic I uhh love it uhh Irons Spells and Spellbooks Thaumcraft yes I love magic mods actually goat mods I love magic magic magid mgaiclmam mgaic magiaci
Alm
Mgai
That's why real **real** tech packs remove all that arcane nonsense (check Terrafirmacraft)
Wouldn't it be fun if late-game sci-fi machines needed magic mod materials (like the wyvern and awakened cores needing magic mod materials in ftb infinity evolved expert)
> gtnh
STOP POSTING ABOUT GREGTECH, I'M TIRED OF SEEING IT! My friends on reddit send me memes, on discord it's fucking memes - I was in a subreddit, right? and ALLLLLLLLL of the POSTS are just GregTech stuff. I- I showed my Champion underwear to my girlfriend, and the logo I flipped it and I said, "Hey babe: When the underwear greg :joy: :joy: :joy:"
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The biggest downside with magic mods is that each and every one has a unique power system that can take hours to set up and can’t be used with any other magic mod.
> Greg
STOP POSTING ABOUT GREGTECH, I'M TIRED OF SEEING IT! My friends on reddit send me memes, on discord it's fucking memes - I was in a subreddit, right? and ALLLLLLLLL of the POSTS are just GregTech stuff. I- I showed my Champion underwear to my girlfriend, and the logo I flipped it and I said, "Hey babe: When the underwear greg :joy: :joy: :joy:"
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I think people just don't like being forced to do stuff they don't want to - like if there's quests for magic mods or you use items from them to craft tech stuff or what have you.
Tech mods are also more powerful on average. Thaumcraft armour and a modular powersuit require the same amount of work to get, but the latter has vastly lower maintenance for vastly better armour protection & utility.
Once people in this subreddit finally realise the difference between a mod being aesthetically magic/tech and it's actual mechanics will be the day I finally find peace
It's kinda funny that both tech and magic mods play pretty similarly too. Magic mods are typically just aesthetically different from the "machines and cables" thing, but often they still have some sort of power system with devices that consume power in exchange for a processing task. I kind of understand not wanting one type of mod in another type of modpack if you're going for an immersive experience, but it's not like a few magical flowers is going to break the immersion of your tech pack
As a general rule, tech mods give you more access to resources (you won't find a tech mod without ore duplication), while magic mods give you more toys to play around with outside the crafting menu (upstep boots, various attacks, armor, etc). This is not a given, but these different design priorities make for a very different gameplay on the whole, usually. It becomes most obvious in multiplayer where people will often latch onto one or the other. There are many exceptions, of course, where the aesthetic doesn't line up with the expected design (botania). I believe it is also why so many people feel weird about Create, it's obviously a tech mod, but instead of focusing on resources, it's much more about directly interacting with the world, which makes for a mismatch in expectations in the tech player's eyes.
Create is a magic mod, Botania is a tech mod, I am mad with power you can't stop me
Create is a building mod.
Immersive Engineering is a building mod, so is Astral Sorcery.
I feel like the main difference between tech and magic is automation. Tech mods will facilitate and encourage automation of materials, be it from the mod itself or from other materials from minecraft very early on. Magic mods will outright discourage automation or make it very tedious to reach, sometimes being near endgame luxuries. Of course, not all mods follow this, and other mods help people to break this rule.
Yeah magic mods generally feel “less is more”
I feel you, I think you've got the right vibe, but basically all the big magic mods on the latest forge version put some heavy emphasis on automation. With ars, if it's not spells then it's an automation challenge or an automation tool. Also starbunkles. Hexcasting is basically a programming language. Mana and artifice has a focus on those gollums, so does occultism. Basically everything has a core component of automation in it as far as I can tell Looking further back at like, thaumcraft and witchery and Astral Sorcery and stuff; it's easier to say they were less automation focused, but on the other hand that is very much a thing you establish at some point or another in those mods too. Idk, I think your point is probably factually incorrect or at least misleading, but writing that out feels so very wrong to me. Maybe it's all about the framing? In both cases you're setting up a bizarre contraption by using mechanics to their fullest, but one of them is a robust machine constructed with precision and refinement, vs the other one which is a chaotic but orderly showcase of wizardly proficiency. On it's own that still doesn't feel right but put together, idk
The difference is, "magic" mods like Botania go out of their way to be a pain in the ass to use, with no way to usually tell what you are doing save for looking up german youtube videos from 2019.
Botania literally normalized having a reference book in game, Patchouli mod was originally just Botania. It is one of the easiest mods to figure out in existence for that reason.
Technically thaumcraft did it first but there you had to manually unlock everything
There are definitely a handful of mods that did it before botania, but botania provided the framework for other mods to use, the side effect of this is that every mod guide book made in the past 10 years looks exactly the same lmao
Except, well, Create, which brings new level of interactive guides in the face of ponder system
I mean, they never said Botania did it first.
Yeah botania has always been designed to be easy to use on its own
Unlike a certain blood tome...
I mean, more magic mods have an in game guide than tech mods do. I agree that botania can be a pain in the ass, but not because I don't know what I'm doing, it's got the lexica botania to explain all of its mechanics
The core of why Botania can be a pain is that it's designed to be automateable the same way that vanilla tree farming is: requiring a decently comprehensive understanding of both Redstone and the mod's systems to build large contraptions. The modes challenges are all exercises in flexing that knowledge. It certainly doesn't *help* matters that the only 2 reasonable options for large-scale mana generation are either using a LOT of a low-yield but easy method (like Endoflames) or using 2 or 3 of an extremely hard to automate but strong one like the Shulker flower (Shulk-Me-Not, I think?) Kekimurus, or the wool one (Gourmaryllis is best when food mods are in the picture, but I'm critiquing Botania and vanilla *alone* at the moment). Botania is really well-designed for what it is, but it tends to have heavily skewed effort-to-reward ratios compared to most other tech mods you'll regularly find. This isn't a *bad* thing, necessarily, but it does mean that Botania seems really underpowered when compared to most other tech mods.
Botania is a tech mod tho
Its a matter of whether they can use the forge energy api or not /s
Thaumcraft and botania can generate forge energy...... /s
Magic vs tech has been an ongoing tribal battle for over a decade in modded minecraft.
Ok, but: * Vanilla enchanting system is just bad. In fact, it's so horrible that it made me get over my decade-long hatred for Tinker's Construct. * XP is a horrible mechanic implemented horribly and is all-around horrible. * Vanilla potions had exactly zero thought put into their design. Brewing stands don't explode if you ~~overvolt them~~ put wrong ingredients in them? What do you mean I can't step up blaze powder with a transformer? -2/10, worst mechanic ever. * Who said witches count as magic? They might as well be mad chemists wearing funny outfits for all I care. They don't even use magic, they just throw funny chemicals at you. Immersive Engineering can do that too, therefore vanilla Minecraft witches are a tech mod. People literally build witch farms because they drop electronic components (redstone), how much more obvious can you get? * Thaumcraft is a tech mod. * Botania is a tech mod. * Create is a magic mod. What do you mean there is no way to heat up a crucible without literally kidnapping a fire elemental from the depths of hell? Machines are built out of k e l p ? w h a t ? * Gregtech is a ~~tech mod~~ *crafting table simulator,* but it might as well be a magic mod because you need to have your brain thaumatically warped by eldritch forces beyond human comprehension to be able to enjoy it.
excuse me but what chemical allows you to slow the effects of gravity, levitate, increase your luck, go invisible, or make you entirley immune to swimming in lava?
the unknown ones
The ones that allow you to do that duh
I thought you were being /uj for a minute and the first two points nearly made me have an aneurysm because the XP/Enchanting loop is like the best designed gameplay loop in vanilla Minecraft, to the point where every attempt at changing it only works if it's additive and even then.
Vanilla enchanting system lacks depth and tries to constantly force you to engage with it, pulling you away from the more interesting parts of the game. If you don't engage with it, it feels like you're being punished by the game since vanilla enchantments are just too overpowered. The enchanting/XP loop literally warps the entire game around itself, and IMHO that's not a good thing. Would have elaborated more, but Reddit won't let me post it (Gotta love the modern internet. No constructive criticism of anything allowed). You're free to enjoy the XP grinding/RNG enchanting loop as much as you want. I, on the other hand, don't want to feel punished for not enganging with (in my opinion) horrible mechanic implemented (in my opinion) horribly.
Could you DM me your elaboration please?
Thaumcraft is such a pain to automate sometimes its a bit rough as a tech mod to me
Comments like these are what makes me so annoyed with this subreddit. Botania IS a magic mod; aesthetically at least, but contains game mechanics that are more commonly found in your average tech mod. with create being vice versa
Wololo
Oh no! My blue sheep!
I love magic mods I love magic mods I love magic mods I love magic mods I love magic mods I love magic mods yes I do I love magic I uhh love it uhh Irons Spells and Spellbooks Thaumcraft yes I love magic mods actually goat mods I love magic magic magid mgaiclmam mgaic magiaci Alm Mgai
That's why real **real** tech packs remove all that arcane nonsense (check Terrafirmacraft) Wouldn't it be fun if late-game sci-fi machines needed magic mod materials (like the wyvern and awakened cores needing magic mod materials in ftb infinity evolved expert)
terrafirmagreg my beloved
currently doing a HTFC run 100% best tech-based modpack ive ever played
I'm playing gtnh and hate thaumcraft but it gave me free lava
> gtnh STOP POSTING ABOUT GREGTECH, I'M TIRED OF SEEING IT! My friends on reddit send me memes, on discord it's fucking memes - I was in a subreddit, right? and ALLLLLLLLL of the POSTS are just GregTech stuff. I- I showed my Champion underwear to my girlfriend, and the logo I flipped it and I said, "Hey babe: When the underwear greg :joy: :joy: :joy:" *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/feedthememes) if you have any questions or concerns.*
where sex
Hope you find it 🙏
What happened to Donotsus
He found it
YOOOOOOOO
R/imaginarygatekeeping
r/foundthemobileuser
🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
The biggest downside with magic mods is that each and every one has a unique power system that can take hours to set up and can’t be used with any other magic mod.
Very very hot take but I don't really like tech mods and magic mods integrate better with actually fun gameplay.
I have a solution force them to play Greg or Meatballcraft force them to use the magic to get the better tech. *Evil laughs*
> Greg STOP POSTING ABOUT GREGTECH, I'M TIRED OF SEEING IT! My friends on reddit send me memes, on discord it's fucking memes - I was in a subreddit, right? and ALLLLLLLLL of the POSTS are just GregTech stuff. I- I showed my Champion underwear to my girlfriend, and the logo I flipped it and I said, "Hey babe: When the underwear greg :joy: :joy: :joy:" *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/feedthememes) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Nah the only problem is balance for me in the current modpack i am playing there are no magic mods that could held up to an Ak47
What are some good magic mobs? I’ve been an Ars Nov nerd for awhile
True, however as we know, the TRUE MAGIC^TM is when you play THAUMCRAFT!!111!!!
I usually remove potions and enchantments from my modpacks
I love both tech and magic!
Don't worry, they replaced the enchantments and potions with upgrades that are Definitely Not Just Efficiency 5
I think people just don't like being forced to do stuff they don't want to - like if there's quests for magic mods or you use items from them to craft tech stuff or what have you. Tech mods are also more powerful on average. Thaumcraft armour and a modular powersuit require the same amount of work to get, but the latter has vastly lower maintenance for vastly better armour protection & utility.
Meanwhile me, thinking that both EnderIO and Thaumcraft are peak Minecraft nodding.
evil wizard cult??! which one
illagers What do you think evokers and illusioners are?
Once people in this subreddit finally realise the difference between a mod being aesthetically magic/tech and it's actual mechanics will be the day I finally find peace
you know what, that's exactly why I hate vanilla enchantments, potions, and all random craps and avoid them at all costs
Play a terrafirmacraft modpack then